May 6, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode of Sounds From The Dockside, we sit down with Hull-based country singer-songwriter Tony Beacock (@tonybeacockmusic). Tony opens up about his journey in the music world, the power of intimate gigs, and why acoustic sets resonate so deeply with both musicians and audiences.
He delves into the art of keeping a set dynamic, balancing energy and emotional connection, and avoiding dead space between songs.Tony also shares his passion for banjo and pedal steel guitar, explaining how it has shaped his sound and the magic of performing with it live. He gives valuable insights into the importance of maintaining momentum on stage and creating an unforgettable experience for the crowd.
Whether it's the raw vibe of an acoustic set or the unique sound of pedal steel, this episode takes you on a journey into music that resonates, connects, and evolves. Tune in for a conversation that goes beyond just songs — it's all about creating experiences and how music keeps us grounded.
🔔 Don’t miss out—follow us for the latest updates and announcements!
Instagram: @‌soundsfromthedockside
Facebook: @‌soundsfromthedockside
He delves into the art of keeping a set dynamic, balancing energy and emotional connection, and avoiding dead space between songs.Tony also shares his passion for banjo and pedal steel guitar, explaining how it has shaped his sound and the magic of performing with it live. He gives valuable insights into the importance of maintaining momentum on stage and creating an unforgettable experience for the crowd.
Whether it's the raw vibe of an acoustic set or the unique sound of pedal steel, this episode takes you on a journey into music that resonates, connects, and evolves. Tune in for a conversation that goes beyond just songs — it's all about creating experiences and how music keeps us grounded.
🔔 Don’t miss out—follow us for the latest updates and announcements!
Instagram: @‌soundsfromthedockside
Facebook: @‌soundsfromthedockside
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, because every musician is different. Some are better than others,
some most of them are probably better than me. But yeah,
it's you know, just you're getting out there and you're playing.
That's the main thing for me. So I want to
be able to feel the song rather than no, exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Not be giving someone else's interpretation of that.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah. Yeah, because I don't know. You can write a
song by play a song to you. I'm feeling the
same way, but it might resonate with you in a
different way. You might take a line differently to how
I intended it. And if that works for you.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Great, Hello and welcome Hello Episode twelve of the Sounds
(01:12):
from the dark Side podcast with me host Dave in
the engine room. Today we've got singer songwriter Tony Bacark.
How's it going, Tony?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
All right?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, not bad? Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I was the journey over here.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it took take us long, to be honest, I
thought it was going to I don't often venture to
grim to be honest. Now, it's a nice change. Really.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Is this your first time playing live in Grimsby or
have you been out play?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Taking the Grimsby.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Virginity exactly, but it was me Tony, your handsome man.
So we like to start the podcast just by getting
to know a bit about the guests. So music aside,
all that side. Just tell us a bit a bit
about you. Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
What makes you you?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So? I'm from Hull, East Yorkshire. Yeah, I'm twenty nine.
I've lived my whole life moved towards like the coast
in a village called al Bro. It's like right now,
Hauntsy and stuff like that. Yeah, I just I've always
(02:11):
played music. I've always been around doing things like that.
I'm a software developer in the day, which is completely
different to my music and stuff like that. Yeah, I'm
probably interested in most things. I'm always flitting between different
hobbies and all sorts of Really to go back.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
To go back to you really is? Was there a
lot of music in the household? Was your parents? Are
your parents musicians? They into music?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
They keen or now nobody to be honest, I'm the
only musician. Everybody used to listen to music, but they
never played it or sang or anything. My dad always
listened to the Beach Boys and prints and it did
like Johnny Cash and things like that. So I guess
(02:58):
there was some kind of country and folk influence there.
But yeah, my grandparents were the Beatles and t Rex
and Hendrix, quite a range of things really, so I've
I've been exposed to a lot of different music. Really.
The only stuff I wasn't exposed to was heavy metal
and stuff which I don't listen to now. So I'm still.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So when did you first pick up the instrument? Is
guitar your native instrument there?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, guitar was first. Did I did I actually start violin?
It was guitar.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
In trusting, it was guitar.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I only played violin for a little bit. Actually, I've
picked it up again recently, but yeah, guitar was nine
years old. I got my first guitar head teacher at school.
He was on free lessons on Monday night, so I
was like, yeah, let's get in there.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So that's what inspired you to ask for a guitar, Yeah,
because there's some free lessons going on.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'm not a cheap scar.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I find it really interesting to know what makes people tick,
you know, Like for me, it was my uncle's a guitarists,
my dad's a drummer, so we've always been Yeah, it
was just you know, force fed it. I couldn't get
away from it really, So it's interesting to hear other
people get into music and everyone's unique, you know, like
you've grown up with no sort of musical influence.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, nothing except listening.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I've wound up into it.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So yeah, so what obviously your classedself as a country
musician had a shame?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I usually said country folk. I mean I have
like that, the style which is obviously Western American type.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You know, So when did you first get into country?
Was at a young age when you started listening to
country or yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean I always knew Johnny Cash songs and things
like that, but then I went it was weird, really.
I went on Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, and I particularly listened
to the Nebraska album that was really stripped back acoustic guitar, harmonica,
and yeah, really nice kind of vibe to it. And
then I went from there. It was actually YouTube suggesting
(05:02):
things to me. It's where I went down the country road,
and I was like, that was a bit cliche. On
that country road. I didn't mean that the country route.
And yeah, I just came across different people's towns, bands,
aunties not really well known but it was more like
I don't know, maybe say American folk music, not a
(05:25):
country as such, but he was with from southern the
Southern States. I think it was Fort Worth, Texas he
was from, so he was surrounded by it. And yeah,
he played guitar, banjo and sang as well, and amazing songwriter.
There's a lot of like the songwriter scene from that
(05:46):
area and that time, like seventies and stuff that I
was really into and because it kind of resonated with
me as well because I was by that time, I
was playing guitar, I was wanting to write songs. I
didn't actually have the confidence to write and sing them.
I didn't think I could, but yeah, I kind of
(06:06):
went through there and then it just opened a new
world really for me.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So from from picking up you know, first picking up
the guitar to doing your first gig, how long was that?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
What was the gap?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Well, the first gigs I used to do were like
I was thirteen, I was playing in pubs and stuff
like that and around here there and everywhere around the
local area. It was playing covers, joli covers, and it
was to a bunch of old people basically on a
Sunday afternoon in various pubs started. Yeah, you know, I
(06:40):
wouldn't change a thing because, like everyone was really appreciative.
Used to say can you play Elvis, Can you play
Buddy Holly? Can you play this sat and the other?
That was before I got into country and all like
folk music and stuff. It was more well known, well
known songs and stuff an artists and yeah. So it
(07:01):
went from there and then I kind of vanished from
that scene. I used to just play back at home
by myself, and then Lockdown happened and stuff as well,
and I was like, I was going through a breakup
and stuff just at the end of Lockdown and whatever
as well, and that was hard. But then it inspired
(07:23):
me to write yeah, and I was like, yeah, I
can do it. And I use it as therapy as well,
and all the songwriting and stuff. And I'm sure a
lot of musicians do as well, whether they're just playing
an instrument or if the songwriting or singing other people songs.
It's it's amazing what music can do. It's that, of
course it is. Yeah, it's got it's I don't know,
(07:46):
it's taken me out of some really dark places actually,
and you never know where you tend to and the
music was a really good route for me. Yeah, so yeah,
I'm thankful to music for that, really good itful for it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So growing up in whole, would you say, have that
that has any bearing on your songwriting or on the
themes that you might pick up up on in some
of your songs. So, because country music is a lot
about storytelling, it isn't it. It is definitely inspire some
of the stories you tell for your music.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I just write the truth, really, so I guess it
doesn't matter to me. I don't know. It's not really
where I am. It's the things I've experienced. So it's
things like a breakup, for example. And I know there's
a million and one heartbreak songs, isn't the breakup songs whatever?
I don't. I'm not like a Taylor Swift where she
(08:40):
only writes the songs. I'm trying to get out of
that that bracket. Really, I enjoy being singing a songwriter,
and I'll write about a lot of different things. But yeah,
I'm just trying to think forgot any I guess I
have a couple of songs where, whilst I was in
my lowest moments, I was like I don't know walking
(09:03):
on the beach. I was at Hauntsey and stuff like
that and all along that coast, so there's some elements
of the sea and beaches, the shore and you know,
things like that. So I guess those have like come
into play. But it's wherever I am and whatever I've experienced.
It's just the truth I try to write.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, just try and sort of highlight their moments in
your life by by writing some music about that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, because like you know, you look, you look at
the moon, for example, while you're walking on on the
beach or something, and it's like I have a song.
It's always sounds more cheesy when you're actually saying it,
doesn't it when you're singing it, and it's all with
instrumentation and context. Yeah, but like you look at the moon,
(09:47):
and I have a song called Guide My Way, and
it's like it's about the moon guide in your way,
and it's all to me. It's about keeping your heads up.
You know. There's so many people looking down, whether on
the phones or just not confident with themselves, and I
just I was really low at that point. I was
just just forced me to look up because I saw
(10:10):
it and I was like and all the reflections on
the scene and stuff like that. And I tried to
write poetically but not forced. If you get what I mean.
There's a lot of kind of similarsm metaphors in what
I write and double meanings and stuff. Yeah, that's about it. Really.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Could you take me through your songwriting process? And I'm
always keen to know because I'm a musician myself.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
But I I write.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Parts, I write hooks, I write some bobs and then
I developed them with my band. I've tried sitting down
and writing songs, start to finish with lyrics, and sometimes
I can write something and then I revisit a day later,
five minutes later, and I'm just I can't resonate with
it again.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I'm like, that's awful. I can't believe I've even written that.
What was on about?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You? Know?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
So what's your song process? But not just what is
your song writing process? Have you experienced anything like that?
And if you did, how did you overcome out? How
did you learn to to accept yourself in terms of
writing songs?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah? I think I don't know. It was just the
terms of like the confidence thing of that was a
switch just flicked in my head, and I was just like,
I've just got to I've just got to do it.
I don't care what anybody thinks. I'm trying to tell
a story. I'm trying to write about a story. I'm
using it for other reasons such as therapy, like I've said,
(11:32):
and I want to spread my story, like tell that
story to other people and don't really care if people
don't like it because it's helping myself. But just so
happens that they are nice songs and people do resonate
with them, and that every time, like I've sang a
song and people have said, oh, I really resonate with that,
(11:53):
and like you sing like a line and like yeah,
you know, like they really like get that. It's things
like that and that booster of confidence every time and
you're like, yeah, I can actually do it. So to me,
it was just kind of jumping in and doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So kind of just saying I'm going to do it, yeah,
and the affirmations kind of made you realize.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I think, so, yeah, worth it or yeah it's that
and not caring about what people think. It's I think
it's the mixture of those two things and probably a
couple of other things. I can't think of right now,
but that really helped me. What was I going to
say it was? But in terms of the songwriting process itself,
(12:36):
it's different to me every time. Like I've just recently,
I trecked myself to a banjo from twenties and thirties.
I brought that today actually, and I've explored music with that.
I've been getting into the clawhammer banjo, like all time country,
(12:57):
like in the Appalachian Mountains and stuff like that, and yeah,
it's every I don't know. I love learning instruments as well,
so each instrument kind of gives me, like it inspires me,
gives me a different angle on music. So I've been
messing about with open tuning like double C and things
(13:18):
like that on the banjo, and it's like it opens
a new world up every time. And then I, I
don't know. Sometimes it's I'll find something on an instrument
and I'm like, okay, kind of see where that's going.
Let's just sing some random stuff. What's in my head,
anything that's in my head, let's out basically, and I
(13:38):
always try and record it as well and write those
down if there's anything decent apart from that, like in
the earlier days when I was going through that break
up and stuff, I used to just write everything down
in a notebook and then not look at maybe come
back to it like a month later or two, and
(14:00):
I'd be like, Okay, well that fits that bit of
music that I've written, and let's try and shift some
things about and then it just works really so yeah,
I can't really pinpoint exactly my process, but sometimes music first.
Sometimes it's note into lyrics into a song, sorry, or
(14:23):
I'll just play something really cool and it's like.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Oh yeah, I've asked a few people this question, and
there's a commonality. It's like there's no one will fits all,
there's no one who just writes songs in one particular method.
Like everyone's drawing integration from anything. You know, an object,
a feeling, an environment running with that, and it seems
to be the same across the board everyone. Everyone draws
inspiration from everything. For me, it's like the most inspiration
(14:49):
comes to me in the most unlikely moments, and you
can guarantee it's when I'm waiting for my missus to
get ready. I'm sat just tinkering around, and then five
minutes later she's like, we off that like one second'm
onto some mess.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, let me record it or something at least yeah,
because that can I remember that you'd asked about the blockage,
like the creativity blocks and stuff like. It is that
type of thing, And once you've kind of broken through
that and you're in the zone type thing, it's hard
to just turn off because for me, anyway, I'm thinking
(15:22):
about it and I just need that last line and
I can't stop until I've got it. And then sometimes
it just gets too late and you're too tired, and
that break does help. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't.
Every song is different, in my opinion, and the direction
and the angle that you come in is different in
(15:43):
terms of actual like creativity blocks themselves. I think getting
out there and experiencing things helps a lot. And if
you're halfway through a song, go through a walk or something,
you might see something, or something might happen, or something
just clicks in your mind because you're not actively thinking
about that. It happens a lot when I'm doing software,
(16:05):
Like in my job, it's you're trying to solve a problem,
and songwriting can be problem solving. It can be that
type of thing, and I'll be writing a piece of
courdent or whatever and trying to solve an issue and
you just have no chance because of that. You've looked
at it that many times and you're you're that invested
(16:26):
in it. You just need to step back and let
I don't know, be distracted for a little bit. I've
heard people like get in the shower and something will
pop up in their head or they'll be walking and
the solution is just obvious to them, and then you
(16:46):
can go back and finish the song, or you can
finish whatever you're doing, whatever project is.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's almost like I put a bit too much pressure
on myself in terms of lyrics. I think, so, yeah, yeah,
it's like I don't know, I'll put pen to paper
and at the time it's obviously good enough to write down.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Upon reflection, I might what was that?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And I think that's the part You've probably got to overcome,
isn't it. Like I'm sure there's like you have notebooks
or whatever and it's full of great songs, or even
if out of four pages you might have one line,
what's like, yeah, that's real good. They take that and
start a different song, and that could that kind of
(17:24):
force something to happen, you know, like it force a
different angle and inspire you in a different way type thing.
I've definitely done that. I've I sometimes look back at
old notebooks like years ago, I'm like, oh, that's actually
really good, and I don't know. I never throw throw
it away, never scrap it or anything, because I think
(17:45):
if I've written it in January and I'll come back
to it in April and I'm like, not very good,
that's just at that moment, you might they're waiting for
that song type thing. It might take a whole year
or two or three, and then those lyrics will fit
into a song and your head is in a different space,
(18:06):
so you can kind of look at it in a
retrospective way and form a song from it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I heard Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins say something similar recently,
saying that some of Smashing Pumpkins's best work at the
time of conception, he didn't like it.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
He says, like, you never dislike a song, it's just
you're not ready for it at that time.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I totally agree. And the songs where you think they're
great at first, then you can come back to him
after maybe playing them live a couple of times. I
don't really like that anymore, but people like it. So,
you know, if if you want to please the crowd
and someone likes a certain song, it's or if the
musicians and your band late to play a certain song,
(18:50):
you'll play it. Like there's like one song and it's
a good song, like of mine. But in my opinion
it's decent. But everyone in the band really enjoy playing it.
We've got some really nice parts in it, and they
think that I sing it really well and whatever. But
I just don't really enjoy singing that song anymore. But
(19:12):
I still do it because it's all about you know,
because the band is under my name as well. I
don't want it to just be all about me. I
like my friends who are the musicians in my band
to also enjoy it. You know. I appreciate all of
them being there playing or doing whatever they're doing, but
(19:32):
it's not all about me. I do try to make
that clear.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So in terms of the band, how's him been going
gig in?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Getting plenty plenty of gigs.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I always get gigs and stuff. It's mainly in
Hull to be honest, and I would like to start
branching out, but at the moment we've got a couple
of bands changes in terms of members and stuff, and
it's it's just beat people being overwhelmed in in other
things aside from music. You know, one of my good friends,
(20:06):
a mutual friend of ours, Rivers, but he's been going
through some things and you know, I love him to
a bit as a great guy and you know, amazing musician.
He does his his solo stuff and he plays mandolin
for me usually, but because he's been going through a
lot of stuff in his day to day life, it's
(20:28):
kind of stepped down. Yeah. He said to me, like
I'll in the future, like once I've sorted myself out,
then if there's a place for me, then I'll come
back and play. It's like, of course there is your
You're a friend first, and I appreciate everything you've done.
We've played loads of gigs together. We traveled to Bradford,
We've done on the Street, sesshon, We've done Spring Springboard
(20:53):
like what you're talking about as well, and all sorts.
And it's nice because I like, I don't know that
people are friends in my band, and that's important for me.
Some people just meet up and practice and play a
gig and that's it. I like to hang out after,
you know, after gigs or like outside of music as well.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, I see being in being in in a group.
It's like being in a relationship and is and you
spend a lot of time with him and you've really
got to be able to tolerate each other.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Avenue.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I think the social element of it is just as
important as the musical element of it sometimes, isn't it,
Because if you're half fast in either of them has
a detrimental effect on you.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
If it's boring or if it's a pick or something,
it's yeah, it's it's a it's a weird thing, isn't it?
A band? And it's people have lives, And I think
that's what people forget when when they're in a band,
and I try my best to remember that as much
as possible. It's not all about me and my project
(21:57):
and blah blah blah. These are people and they're good
friends and stuff. You know, you kind of you have
to adjust. So Yeah, like I said, there's there's a
couple of people stepping down from the roles within the band,
and at the moment we're just bringing a drummer in
and a new bassist and stuff like that, and I
(22:20):
want to build that really strong foundation again and then
we can go from there. It's come out a really
good time actually, because my music, the direction in my
head has changed slightly in terms of sound and stuff,
so kind of writing some new songs, bringing the banjo
in properly live and stuff, and the chre of it's
(22:43):
still there. Was still singing the same songs, bringing a
couple of new ones in, slowly building that foundation again.
And then when when and if Rivers wants to join again,
they can, and you know, everybody else as well or not,
maybe some new people who want to join. Who knows
(23:04):
what the future holds. But all you can do is
just try it right.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
With your genre as well.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
It's it's not uncommon for things to be added and
things to be removed.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
You know, in what I do, if we lost a
guitar arrest and I was like, I'll just gig without it,
It'll be fine, it would you would notice you Whereas
it's a bit more you can add things and take
things away with your stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, And because because it is like my project.
I've written the songs and I'm playing guitar and I'm singing.
I'm like the frontman type person of it, right. I
am the the guy. I can play the solos. I
can play any kind of combination, so I can play
solo players, as a duo, trio, full band. It really
(23:46):
depends on what's going on, what type of gig it is.
Like next week we're playing in a church in Beverly
and that's going to be like a really nice venue
and it's going to be back again. We don't really
have much option at the moment because obviously the drummers
learning the songs. Basis is learning the songs and stuff.
(24:09):
It's annoying because i'd love to play I have a
double bass at home and I'm learning that and i'd
love to play that. I can't really play it live
because I don't think I could sing with it really. Yeah,
But I can always teach people things that I know,
and I'm always up for helping and because I learn
every days a learning experience in it, whether you're doing
(24:31):
music or not. And I'm not the best musician ever.
I would never claim that in my life, but I
like to even go to like folk circles and jam
sessions and stuff where you can learn so much from
other people. Yeah, and it's important because you're supporting people,
(24:51):
you're making friends, and in terms of business and stuff,
you're making new connections and stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think jamming is really important for your own for
your own development as well. Like I've never unlocked new
techniques or anything like that when I'm rehearsing with my band.
It's always when I'm jamming with friends. That's when, yeah,
used to lock new parts of the threat board. Do
you know when my hands are moving now exciting ways
and there's no there's no pressure to not develop that
(25:21):
whilest have been that setting. So I think jamming is
just as important, isn't it, And not just in that
band setting either, just jamming with yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It is, Yeah, because even if it's like a room
full of thirty people. I go to one at the
sun in in Beverly on Saturday, usually bought all seven
and everyone's really nice. I've been taking the double base
there the last couple of Saturdays, and it's like, although
you can hear that, people come up to you like,
(25:52):
oh yeah, really kind of lifts it I'm there to
practice my instrument, whereas I can only stick some music
on and play along with it. But like, and I
don't know, live music is totally different. Unexpected things can happen.
You kind of have to follow that, and you just
become better at the instrument, don't you.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
With your intuition improves as well.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, because every musician is different. Some are better than others,
some most of them are probably better than me. But yeah,
it's you know, it's just you're getting out there and
you're playing. That's the main thing for me.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, it's the main thing for me. It takes precedents
of everything else. I love the process as.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, though.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I love, you know, someone coming with just a nugget
of something and then watching that flourish and developing recorded
song with the music video, and you know, there's something
about that entire process. And I don't even necessarily know
what it is. I guess it's elements of each part
of it. But there's just something beautiful about creating something
from nothing and putting out and even better if you
(26:58):
get some positive feedback about it.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Isn't it always lifts your spirits, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So what's on the horizon few.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
In terms of releases and upcoming projects, I don't have
anything planned. Obviously you're having a bit of a change
around in terms of members, But is there anything in
the schedule to get some more recording done.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We've got loads of recordings, to be honest, I did
about what was it between twelve and sixteen songs. I
can't remember the exact number. We've got some studio versions
of some of my songs and also some live acoustic
versions as well. I've got my next one coming out
on Friday called never Again, and that was a live take,
(27:39):
not the first take, but I mean it was like
I think we did like thirty or something, and I
think it was number eighteen greatly, And that's just me
singing and guitar, but there's a girl that used to
sing in the band. She's singing harmonies, beautiful voice, like
(28:00):
beautiful harmonies, and then the fiddle as well, Like towards
the end of the song, I just started to throw
something slightly different out. But yeah, there's I'm basically going
through with the producer at the moment, who's just kind
of still mixing some things and editing a little bit
and whatever, and I'm just gonna try and put those out.
(28:23):
But like I say, my sounds changed, so I kind
of just want them out now. Yeah they're still still fine,
but I just want them out so I can start
my new my new things, and my new sound. Like. Yeah,
it's nothing like drastic change, like I'm not going into
heavy metal or anything, but it's like, ah, it's I
I appreciate heavy metal and the musicians that play it,
(28:46):
but it's just not really not my thing.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Completely get it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I couldn't sit and listen to it. My head's all
over the place. I have d HD and stuff, and
it's like and like I have to have calm music. Yeah.
I went to see stef Jill Simpson a couple of
weeks ago in Manchester and he had a really nice
blues grass album came out, and I mean it's it's
(29:10):
quite a lot of years old now, but amazing like instrumentation.
He did like blues grass versions of his heavier songs,
but there was and they did those songs, but it
was a very heavy concept and I enjoyed it, but
it was like too heavy for me and it went
more into like the rock, which is fine because I
(29:31):
do I do like it. But I guess you go
through phases of what you listen to. I'm currently listening
to like or Hammer Banja, and like it's really stripped
back and raw, and you know, really nice songs, really
nice lyrics and stuff, which even heavy metal songs can
have nice lyrics, can't they even screamer and stuff. It's
(29:55):
you know, the lyrics are raw, like they go straight
to your heart or or whatever. But just everyone's into
something like different art they I.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Mean, it's a bit of everything made.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
But it's a very limp biscuit intensive week for me
because I just saw him on Thursday in Birmingham, so
I've not listened to him in years, and then the
announcer saw me and the missus got tickets and I'm
so glad i went to see him. Yeah, it was
like it's like ninety ninety nine all over again. I
was three then, so yeah, yeah, I mean I was
only a bit older. But but so you're playing sober
(30:27):
sessions tonight, So what can people expect from your set tonight?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Well, I don't drink, so so just just touching on that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Why don't you drink? Is that through choice?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So just a yeah, I've never I've never been in thankful,
I've never been in a state of addiction or anything
like that. Doesn't smoke, don't never never smoke, never touch drugs.
Never drank. Well, drank when I was younger, but just
out of choice, I just just don't need it. Yeah,
I can kind of now I've accepted myself more and
(31:03):
I don't have to kind of put any fronts on
or anything, because growing up as a teenager and stuff,
you kind of you always want to fit in, don't you,
And you always like you want to be the joker
or the the laugh of the classroom or the party
or wherever you are, And like, I don't know, I
can do that. I can do that without the alcohol.
(31:25):
I guess. I love just being daft basically, Like I
don't go there without laughing. And I appreciate people who
have had addictions and stuff. And it's a very strong
thing to come out of, isn't it. Like it's a
difficult thing to stop. But yeah, for me personally, I'm
lucky enough to have not had that addiction. But I'm
(31:49):
always there to help people as well if they have.
I've had plenty of friends who have come to me
and be like how do you actually do it? Like
We've been on nights out and I'm there drinking soft drinks,
water or whatever, and it's like, how on earth do
you go on a night out and drink water?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
That's a sad reality, really, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Some people when they're looking at someone who's not drinking
and thinking, fuck, how do they do that?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, because you can see that they want to do
that and like curious about it and stuff. And I
think more and more people are actually stopping drinking or
stopping the amount that they're drinking.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
It's on the decline, isn't it. It really is people's
attitudes towards it. No doubt.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
The cost of living is having an effect. You know,
people can't afford to drink anymore. Yeah, And I think
I think, I don't know whether it's because I'm getting
older and a lot of my friends maybe kind of
becoming of the same opinion, Like, yeah, I like, you know,
I'm not in recovery from alcohol or anything like, but
I barely drink at all because I just I don't
like it, do you know what I mean? Yeah, there's
(32:50):
some situations where it plays a part for me, but
it's very few and far between in drinking to get
drunk is just I couldn't think about drinking to get
drunk anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I like to be in control as well. I like
to you know, if you're out in the city you've
never been or something, and you're so drunk you don't
even know what's going on, and you're trying to walk
back to a hotel or go to the train station
or something, you just never know what. I like to
have my wits about me, and I'm observant. I'm always
like looking around the room and or the street or something.
(33:21):
I'm always aware and I think, well, I know that
being drunk, I don't know. Everything goes out the window,
doesn't it. You can take a situation completely in a
different way than you would if you were sober. You
know where someone's speaking or something, or someone's intentions or
(33:45):
whatever as well. Yeah, I've not I don't know. I
can't remember the last time. It's not like I'm alcohol
free like I think. At Christmas I had I shared
a very small amount of mulled wine with them a
girl I was seeing at the time, because we were
(34:05):
out at a Christmas market and she wanted to try it,
and I was like, yeah, I'll try a little bit.
I probably had a couple of SIPs. It was a
small glass, and it's like, you know, I'm not sure
I'm in control of that situation. I've chosen to just
try it, and a sip isn't going to do anything
for me in a good way or a bad way.
(34:26):
I'm just going to get a bit of a taste
of something. That was the last time I had alcohol,
but before that it was like years. Yeah, people laugh
at me because I always go to there's a bar
in a whole called the Brain Jar, probably been or
that one. They do food and cocktails and stuff, like
(34:46):
really nice cocktails, but they do mocktails and stuff as well,
So I've had those in the past. And they do gigs.
So I've played there and you get a couple of
tokens or whatever and some money for playing. Been like
one of the tokens on a pizza because the pizza.
But then I'll get a green tea or peppermint tea.
(35:07):
People are like, you know, they expect the musicians come
in and just get absolutely wasted, whether it's on on
booze or drugs or something. I'm like, or they'll even
say you're coming out for a smoke and we'll have
a chat. It's like smoke, I'll come out and chat.
But I just don't do any of that and I
(35:27):
don't need it.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
It goes hand in hand there with with creativity. I
guess you know a lot of creative people are wild people.
Goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, there's so many famous musicians who had to be
on drugs or alcohol to write.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Even the reality is probably some of the best music
that just haven't been put out there as a result
of some sort of loucinogenic Yeah, yeah, yeah, but there's
I don't I don't think there's any place for it.
I mean these events where doing his proof that you
don't need it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of course, Yeah, you can have a good time without it. Yeah,
it's trick in your body. Well it's not even tricking.
It's because your body is tricked into thinking you need
that addictive thing like i'lcohol or drugs or whatever. You
have to kind of align yourself again because kids, for example,
(36:22):
they have a weal of a time, don't they, and
that they don't touch any of it, Like it's all
about I don't know. You get older and you start
having stresses and you start thinking about what other people think.
And if we call just kind of forget that and
just let loose a little bit and act like kids
(36:43):
again in the right situations, you know, have fun. Without
all of that playful it would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So back to the music, mate, is there any sort
of dream collaborations or anything like that? I mean, I
bet the is endless, But for most people, they kind
of have one two artists who did really, really really
want to lock in with, and they're all all dead,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Well dead or alive. Then let's rephrase that dead or alive.
Who would be a dream collab.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Towns Bands and Blaze Bowley probably not heard of him now,
he was, to be honest, it's it's in touch with this.
Actually he was an alcoholic. He abused substances as well,
and he was very good friends with Towns Bands And
have you heard of him.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I've heard the name, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not listened now.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So they were very kind of similar, like Towns was
on heroin and stuff like that, and I can't remember
if Blaze was, but he definitely took part in drugs
and stuff, but it was mainly alcohol for him and
they they became friends and they started writing stuff separately
(37:59):
and they did a couple of collabs and stuff as well.
Like Live, it's it's that type of person because it's raw.
It's like again, it's it's from the heart. It's like live,
it's true, it's the truth. It's the experiences they've they've
come from, Like he was homeless type thing. He was
couch surfing and he lived in a treehouse with his
(38:22):
he got he got married and stuff to a Jewish girl.
And there's there's a there's a film about it called Blaze.
Ethan Hawke produced it and stuff and that's great. But yeah,
I'm going off topic now Blaze and Towns and there's
a I don't know, really, I'm trying to think of
(38:43):
people that would kind of fit with my thing, because
they're very much songwriters, so they would, but people who
were alive. Charlie Crockett is a very big influence of
my absolutely love his music. But he's like big, you know,
he's got a band and is real lively on stage,
and he came from playing on street corners and learning
(39:06):
from homeless people like losing stuff, and then he's like
skyrocketed over the last couple of years he was I
would say the best gig I've ever been to. I've
seen him twice, like as an acoustic artist and with
his band, So Charlie Crockett would be great. I chatted
with him for a little bit actually when I went
(39:27):
to see him. Real nice guy and whatever. But yeah,
I would say those I can't really think of anymore
and anyone really because it would just be about playing
music with him. I don't really care about becoming famous
or anything or never my my goal. Like, it's all
(39:48):
about the music. And I could learn something from them,
and I'd love to ask him questions and and see
what they would, you know, see if they liked my
songs or anything that they're writing.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's not an easy question to be asked. Say when
people say who are your influences? So well, fucking who
isn't an influence, do you know what I mean? I
take inspiration from anyone who plays a guitar. You know,
anyone can inspire me, Like on that instrument, you know it.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And everybody plays it so differently. So like I say,
you can learn anything from anybody, like if you're not
if you're not Travis picken in the correct way that
can that can cause a whole different direction of music.
It's like your own style, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I don't like to categorize myself too much. I say
country folk, but I just play and write whatever comes
from my heart. Really. Yeah, it's a bit cliche, isn't it.
But that's just what I do.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
It's all that is really in it. Like, how else
can you describe it?
Speaker 3 (40:49):
At the end of the day, when you playing original music,
how else can you describe it other than you're just
playing something that's authentically you exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
And that's the bit I struggle with.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I put something down in the band saying it's not
an issue like I said, it's when I'm on my own,
when I'm trying to write my own songs. It's just
like it's not like I haven't got the ability, it's
just the ability to overcome myself, do you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Like I say, it's one of the biggest things is that.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Maybe I'm trying for no reason. Maybe I'll never need
to do it, do you know what I mean? But
but again, I've always wanted to do you know.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yeah, And I've always been envious some other people have
been able to do yeah, and maybe that's the only
reason I'm starting this podcast, mate, is to try and.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
But I honestly believe that you can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I think you should literally pull an old song
out of a notebook that you've had, or even go
and write a new one and just go to an
open mic and just play it. See what the see
what the reaction is. But even if it's even if
(41:52):
you get some claps and you're like, oh, I wanted
that to be bigger, play it again. I was so
scared about play my first song ever, like like people
are gonna boom me off stage, are going to hate it,
you know, But they didn't. They absolutely loved it and
even actually made someone cry. And I was like, with
(42:13):
the Held album, are that bad? Really?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
That must have been pretty powerful?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, And I do get that quite often now, especially
at the intimate gigs, because people are there to listen
to the songs themselves. And I prefer like the Yeah,
I actually prefer the more intimate gigs now, other like
a big, big festival gig or something. Yeah, And I
think it's because, like I said, people are there to
(42:39):
listen festival gigs if you're playing loud and whatever, I
don't really, I don't know. Some people don't really care
what's being played.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
A bit more of a disconnecting there.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The smaller the venue, they're smaller the set in the
it becomes, doesn't it something When when you go to
a bigger venue you definitely lose something.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, definitely, I don't know. Starting all other places. When
I saw Charlie Crockett with his band versus the acoustic
like step, it was totally different feels. I was at
the front for both of them, like this distance away
from him both times, and it was absolutely amazing like
(43:23):
both of them, but you definitely hitting the heart more
like with the acoustic one. Yeah, And I like it
when big bands like that, they'll step it down a
little bit halfway through the set and they'll maybe do
a couple of songs just acoustic, bring the lights down
there and bring that intimate feel back into the room.
(43:45):
And I guess I tried to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I'll always try and get everyone to step back and
then I'll just play a song on my own or something.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Try and make the set a bit more dynamic piece.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, it was a bit of variation in the variation's
my key, like my my favorite word. Like, I'm always
trying to make it more of a show and a
bit more of an experience than just there's a guy
with the guitar playing eight songs or something.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
That's exactly it. It sticks out like a so form.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
The difference between someone performing songs or someone performing a
set n't exactly start a difference. That's why we're trying,
really trying to hone in.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
On the minute. And it's what do we do in
the gaps where we're not playing anything.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
That's where we're really trying to hone in.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, we did it space exactly, and we did that
recently and I was like, because there's like a song,
I use a partial Kappa so I can imitate drop
D and I still do like the G chord and
then go down to the D and like, because the
intonations slightly off because you've got that cap on second
(44:47):
threat you have to tune. It's slightly different. Might be
something my guitar, to be honest, but it's if you're
using a Kappa, it's always going to cause that isn't it.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
But yeah, yeah, especially when you've got a fixed brit
it's an acoustic exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
You can't fuck me intonation like you can on a electric.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, exactly. So with that, like I always double check
my tune in after that song when I'm playing back
in standard just normal capo or something, and I always
i'd give the nod to Rivers and I'd be like,
you know, C, C, D and G, and then everyone
would just play that on loop whilst I was just
(45:26):
quickly tuning, and then I'd be like, this is called
trust in Me. That's the next song. That's usually the
next one would play after that. Actually it's just trust
in Me, and we'll go straight into the GH and
carry on from there. And it's like you said, it's
that dead space where things can you know, the audience
are kind of looking around, what's happening.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You want to grab the attention straight away and then
retain that yeah through to the very end, isn't it?
And some times them lures in between songs, it's kind
of yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
You might lose the vibe or like, you know, you
just want to keep that momentum going. Bruce Springsteen did
that really well. I saw him in Germany last year
the year before, and he did three hours straight and
no interval or anything. I was like crazy, it was
like one song into the other. To be fair, stage
(46:19):
Le Simpson did that as well in Manchester. I was
surprised at the amount. He didn't speak. Actually, he hardly
said anything. He just went in and played all the songs.
And I think you've got to get that balance right. Really.
I personally hate talking down the microphone and I'm yapping
away here, but when I'm on stage, I can't stand
(46:43):
anything more than people who were I don't know, they're
talking for five minutes about a two minute song. You
know about what it is, say a couple of sentences
about it. I want to be able to feel the
song rather than no exactly, not.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Be giving someone else as interpretation of them.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, yeah, because I don't know. You can write a
song and if I play a song to you, I'm
feeling the same way, but it might resonate with you
in a different way. You might take a line differently
to how I intended it, And if that works for you, great,
you know That's what I think. But yeah, if people
(47:21):
are talking too long, really, to be honest, a bit
of a fat peeve for me really, but it you know,
like like I said before, it is so important and
you can notice it.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You can really notice it when you see someone perform
their set. Yeah, it's a difference between a well established
act and not being really in a Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Anyway, Yeah, you've got a bit tight as a band.
It's easier when there's when there's a band, to be honest,
when you're an acoustic artist, it's a little bit harder.
You just have to kind of force yourself to talk
and interact a little bit.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Some people just do it naturally down there. Yeah, I'm
not going have the gift of the gab.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
I'm not really well.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Like I said, it's keeping on point in it.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
And like I said, no one wants to hear some
five minute rhetoric about a song that last two minutes.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
To exactly Honestly, I hate it.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
But I'm really looking forward to listening to your set tonight. Mat.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Interested to I'm trying to think.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
I don't think i've ever seen someone play lap steel intimately.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Steel, so it's like the next level.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, so heed Steel, You'll you'll hear it on a
lot of country stuff, especially from the seventies. It was
on like every record you get every now and then
we're just chatting about that earlier. Like in modern country.
You do get it. You hear it like as a
bit of a swell in the background. You'll understand when
some players later if you haven't heard it before.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I've heard it before. I've just not so I've been
in the presence of somebody playing it.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, it's one of my favorite instruments.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
What a unique instrument there.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
It's very hard to few and far between as well,
it's not offing you see them.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, I was very lucky because there's two that I
know about in the whole area, like two people that
can play. Sam being one of them. And he Sam's
played every gig that I've asked him to play and
and it was an excuse to play Pedal Steel live.
And he's come on so much as well in that time.
(49:16):
But then there's a guy called Dave Holly and he's
played all over the World's played Nashville and he went
they went to Scandinavia. We had keep it Cash the
tribute band. It was quite that they've played all of
the world doing Johnny Cash songs. He played pedal steel
in there for a bit as well as electric guitar.
(49:38):
But yeah, so I got hold of Dave and he
did pedal steel on on on the tracks. And now
I've met Sam as well. He plays with me live
and it's going to be recording some for the tracks
as well, just to like put in, Yeah, such a
beautiful instrument, violin and pedal steel. You I've heard a
(50:00):
lot of steel guitar in Hank Williams songs if you've
listened to him, and that was without the pedals. That
kind of added the pedals in later, Yeah, but they
just bend all the notes and stuff basically. Really if
you like look underneath the pedal steel, like the mechanical
sound of it's crazy engineering. Yeah, very beautiful instrument.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
M hm, yeah, I'm saying about yeah, And I've really
enjoyed this conversation. I like to WND my podcast by
just asking who should I be listening to right now?
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Heyler Limp Biscuit.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Really I've written Heiler down as well. How bad that?
Speaker 1 (50:44):
No, I would say listen to Blaze Foley because yeah,
because his songwriting is amazing, and Guy Clark as well.
Guy Clark guy Clark. We're all in the same kind
of town, same area of Texas and stuff like that,
and it's if you're a lover of songs, like songwriting.
(51:04):
They're very poetic and stuff like that along with tones.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
But then I'll check them out.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Thanks again, Tony Yep, thank you very much, thanks for
having me. And if you like what you've heard it,
like and subscribe.
Yeah, because every musician is different. Some are better than others,
some most of them are probably better than me. But yeah,
it's you know, just you're getting out there and you're playing.
That's the main thing for me. So I want to
be able to feel the song rather than no, exactly.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Not be giving someone else's interpretation of that.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah. Yeah, because I don't know. You can write a
song by play a song to you. I'm feeling the
same way, but it might resonate with you in a
different way. You might take a line differently to how
I intended it. And if that works for you.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Great, Hello and welcome Hello Episode twelve of the Sounds
(01:12):
from the dark Side podcast with me host Dave in
the engine room. Today we've got singer songwriter Tony Bacark.
How's it going, Tony?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
All right?
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, not bad? Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I was the journey over here.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it took take us long, to be honest, I
thought it was going to I don't often venture to
grim to be honest. Now, it's a nice change. Really.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Is this your first time playing live in Grimsby or
have you been out play?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Nice?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Taking the Grimsby.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Virginity exactly, but it was me Tony, your handsome man.
So we like to start the podcast just by getting
to know a bit about the guests. So music aside,
all that side. Just tell us a bit a bit
about you. Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
What makes you you?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So? I'm from Hull, East Yorkshire. Yeah, I'm twenty nine.
I've lived my whole life moved towards like the coast
in a village called al Bro. It's like right now,
Hauntsy and stuff like that. Yeah, I just I've always
(02:11):
played music. I've always been around doing things like that.
I'm a software developer in the day, which is completely
different to my music and stuff like that. Yeah, I'm
probably interested in most things. I'm always flitting between different
hobbies and all sorts of Really to go back.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
To go back to you really is? Was there a
lot of music in the household? Was your parents? Are
your parents musicians? They into music?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
They keen or now nobody to be honest, I'm the
only musician. Everybody used to listen to music, but they
never played it or sang or anything. My dad always
listened to the Beach Boys and prints and it did
like Johnny Cash and things like that. So I guess
(02:58):
there was some kind of country and folk influence there.
But yeah, my grandparents were the Beatles and t Rex
and Hendrix, quite a range of things really, so I've
I've been exposed to a lot of different music. Really.
The only stuff I wasn't exposed to was heavy metal
and stuff which I don't listen to now. So I'm still.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So when did you first pick up the instrument? Is
guitar your native instrument there?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, guitar was first. Did I did I actually start violin?
It was guitar.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
In trusting, it was guitar.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I only played violin for a little bit. Actually, I've
picked it up again recently, but yeah, guitar was nine
years old. I got my first guitar head teacher at school.
He was on free lessons on Monday night, so I
was like, yeah, let's get in there.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So that's what inspired you to ask for a guitar, Yeah,
because there's some free lessons going on.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'm not a cheap scar.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I find it really interesting to know what makes people tick,
you know, Like for me, it was my uncle's a guitarists,
my dad's a drummer, so we've always been Yeah, it
was just you know, force fed it. I couldn't get
away from it really, So it's interesting to hear other
people get into music and everyone's unique, you know, like
you've grown up with no sort of musical influence.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah, nothing except listening.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I've wound up into it.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
So yeah, so what obviously your classedself as a country
musician had a shame?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, I usually said country folk. I mean I have
like that, the style which is obviously Western American type.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
You know, So when did you first get into country?
Was at a young age when you started listening to
country or yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean I always knew Johnny Cash songs and things
like that, but then I went it was weird, really.
I went on Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, and I particularly listened
to the Nebraska album that was really stripped back acoustic guitar, harmonica,
and yeah, really nice kind of vibe to it. And
then I went from there. It was actually YouTube suggesting
(05:02):
things to me. It's where I went down the country road,
and I was like, that was a bit cliche. On
that country road. I didn't mean that the country route.
And yeah, I just came across different people's towns, bands,
aunties not really well known but it was more like
I don't know, maybe say American folk music, not a
(05:25):
country as such, but he was with from southern the
Southern States. I think it was Fort Worth, Texas he
was from, so he was surrounded by it. And yeah,
he played guitar, banjo and sang as well, and amazing songwriter.
There's a lot of like the songwriter scene from that
(05:46):
area and that time, like seventies and stuff that I
was really into and because it kind of resonated with
me as well because I was by that time, I
was playing guitar, I was wanting to write songs. I
didn't actually have the confidence to write and sing them.
I didn't think I could, but yeah, I kind of
(06:06):
went through there and then it just opened a new
world really for me.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So from from picking up you know, first picking up
the guitar to doing your first gig, how long was that?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
What was the gap?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Well, the first gigs I used to do were like
I was thirteen, I was playing in pubs and stuff
like that and around here there and everywhere around the
local area. It was playing covers, joli covers, and it
was to a bunch of old people basically on a
Sunday afternoon in various pubs started. Yeah, you know, I
(06:40):
wouldn't change a thing because, like everyone was really appreciative.
Used to say can you play Elvis, Can you play
Buddy Holly? Can you play this sat and the other?
That was before I got into country and all like
folk music and stuff. It was more well known, well
known songs and stuff an artists and yeah. So it
(07:01):
went from there and then I kind of vanished from
that scene. I used to just play back at home
by myself, and then Lockdown happened and stuff as well,
and I was like, I was going through a breakup
and stuff just at the end of Lockdown and whatever
as well, and that was hard. But then it inspired
(07:23):
me to write yeah, and I was like, yeah, I
can do it. And I use it as therapy as well,
and all the songwriting and stuff. And I'm sure a
lot of musicians do as well, whether they're just playing
an instrument or if the songwriting or singing other people songs.
It's it's amazing what music can do. It's that, of
course it is. Yeah, it's got it's I don't know,
(07:46):
it's taken me out of some really dark places actually,
and you never know where you tend to and the
music was a really good route for me. Yeah, so yeah,
I'm thankful to music for that, really good itful for it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So growing up in whole, would you say, have that
that has any bearing on your songwriting or on the
themes that you might pick up up on in some
of your songs. So, because country music is a lot
about storytelling, it isn't it. It is definitely inspire some
of the stories you tell for your music.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I just write the truth, really, so I guess it
doesn't matter to me. I don't know. It's not really
where I am. It's the things I've experienced. So it's
things like a breakup, for example. And I know there's
a million and one heartbreak songs, isn't the breakup songs whatever?
I don't. I'm not like a Taylor Swift where she
(08:40):
only writes the songs. I'm trying to get out of
that that bracket. Really, I enjoy being singing a songwriter,
and I'll write about a lot of different things. But yeah,
I'm just trying to think forgot any I guess I
have a couple of songs where, whilst I was in
my lowest moments, I was like I don't know walking
(09:03):
on the beach. I was at Hauntsey and stuff like
that and all along that coast, so there's some elements
of the sea and beaches, the shore and you know,
things like that. So I guess those have like come
into play. But it's wherever I am and whatever I've experienced.
It's just the truth I try to write.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, just try and sort of highlight their moments in
your life by by writing some music about that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, because like you know, you look, you look at
the moon, for example, while you're walking on on the
beach or something, and it's like I have a song.
It's always sounds more cheesy when you're actually saying it,
doesn't it when you're singing it, and it's all with
instrumentation and context. Yeah, but like you look at the moon,
(09:47):
and I have a song called Guide My Way, and
it's like it's about the moon guide in your way,
and it's all to me. It's about keeping your heads up.
You know. There's so many people looking down, whether on
the phones or just not confident with themselves, and I
just I was really low at that point. I was
just just forced me to look up because I saw
(10:10):
it and I was like and all the reflections on
the scene and stuff like that. And I tried to
write poetically but not forced. If you get what I mean.
There's a lot of kind of similarsm metaphors in what
I write and double meanings and stuff. Yeah, that's about it. Really.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Could you take me through your songwriting process? And I'm
always keen to know because I'm a musician myself.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
But I I write.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
Parts, I write hooks, I write some bobs and then
I developed them with my band. I've tried sitting down
and writing songs, start to finish with lyrics, and sometimes
I can write something and then I revisit a day later,
five minutes later, and I'm just I can't resonate with
it again.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
I'm like, that's awful. I can't believe I've even written that.
What was on about?
Speaker 1 (10:58):
You? Know?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
So what's your song process? But not just what is
your song writing process? Have you experienced anything like that?
And if you did, how did you overcome out? How
did you learn to to accept yourself in terms of
writing songs?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah? I think I don't know. It was just the
terms of like the confidence thing of that was a
switch just flicked in my head, and I was just like,
I've just got to I've just got to do it.
I don't care what anybody thinks. I'm trying to tell
a story. I'm trying to write about a story. I'm
using it for other reasons such as therapy, like I've said,
(11:32):
and I want to spread my story, like tell that
story to other people and don't really care if people
don't like it because it's helping myself. But just so
happens that they are nice songs and people do resonate
with them, and that every time, like I've sang a
song and people have said, oh, I really resonate with that,
(11:53):
and like you sing like a line and like yeah,
you know, like they really like get that. It's things
like that and that booster of confidence every time and
you're like, yeah, I can actually do it. So to me,
it was just kind of jumping in and doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So kind of just saying I'm going to do it, yeah,
and the affirmations kind of made you realize.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I think, so, yeah, worth it or yeah it's that
and not caring about what people think. It's I think
it's the mixture of those two things and probably a
couple of other things. I can't think of right now,
but that really helped me. What was I going to
say it was? But in terms of the songwriting process itself,
(12:36):
it's different to me every time. Like I've just recently,
I trecked myself to a banjo from twenties and thirties.
I brought that today actually, and I've explored music with that.
I've been getting into the clawhammer banjo, like all time country,
(12:57):
like in the Appalachian Mountains and stuff like that, and yeah,
it's every I don't know. I love learning instruments as well,
so each instrument kind of gives me, like it inspires me,
gives me a different angle on music. So I've been
messing about with open tuning like double C and things
(13:18):
like that on the banjo, and it's like it opens
a new world up every time. And then I, I
don't know. Sometimes it's I'll find something on an instrument
and I'm like, okay, kind of see where that's going.
Let's just sing some random stuff. What's in my head,
anything that's in my head, let's out basically, and I
(13:38):
always try and record it as well and write those
down if there's anything decent apart from that, like in
the earlier days when I was going through that break
up and stuff, I used to just write everything down
in a notebook and then not look at maybe come
back to it like a month later or two, and
(14:00):
I'd be like, Okay, well that fits that bit of
music that I've written, and let's try and shift some
things about and then it just works really so yeah,
I can't really pinpoint exactly my process, but sometimes music first.
Sometimes it's note into lyrics into a song, sorry, or
(14:23):
I'll just play something really cool and it's like.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Oh yeah, I've asked a few people this question, and
there's a commonality. It's like there's no one will fits all,
there's no one who just writes songs in one particular method.
Like everyone's drawing integration from anything. You know, an object,
a feeling, an environment running with that, and it seems
to be the same across the board everyone. Everyone draws
inspiration from everything. For me, it's like the most inspiration
(14:49):
comes to me in the most unlikely moments, and you
can guarantee it's when I'm waiting for my missus to
get ready. I'm sat just tinkering around, and then five
minutes later she's like, we off that like one second'm
onto some mess.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, let me record it or something at least yeah,
because that can I remember that you'd asked about the blockage,
like the creativity blocks and stuff like. It is that
type of thing, And once you've kind of broken through
that and you're in the zone type thing, it's hard
to just turn off because for me, anyway, I'm thinking
(15:22):
about it and I just need that last line and
I can't stop until I've got it. And then sometimes
it just gets too late and you're too tired, and
that break does help. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't.
Every song is different, in my opinion, and the direction
and the angle that you come in is different in
(15:43):
terms of actual like creativity blocks themselves. I think getting
out there and experiencing things helps a lot. And if
you're halfway through a song, go through a walk or something,
you might see something, or something might happen, or something
just clicks in your mind because you're not actively thinking
about that. It happens a lot when I'm doing software,
(16:05):
Like in my job, it's you're trying to solve a problem,
and songwriting can be problem solving. It can be that
type of thing, and I'll be writing a piece of
courdent or whatever and trying to solve an issue and
you just have no chance because of that. You've looked
at it that many times and you're you're that invested
(16:26):
in it. You just need to step back and let
I don't know, be distracted for a little bit. I've
heard people like get in the shower and something will
pop up in their head or they'll be walking and
the solution is just obvious to them, and then you
(16:46):
can go back and finish the song, or you can
finish whatever you're doing, whatever project is.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's almost like I put a bit too much pressure
on myself in terms of lyrics. I think, so, yeah, yeah,
it's like I don't know, I'll put pen to paper
and at the time it's obviously good enough to write down.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Upon reflection, I might what was that?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And I think that's the part You've probably got to overcome,
isn't it. Like I'm sure there's like you have notebooks
or whatever and it's full of great songs, or even
if out of four pages you might have one line,
what's like, yeah, that's real good. They take that and
start a different song, and that could that kind of
(17:24):
force something to happen, you know, like it force a
different angle and inspire you in a different way type thing.
I've definitely done that. I've I sometimes look back at
old notebooks like years ago, I'm like, oh, that's actually
really good, and I don't know. I never throw throw
it away, never scrap it or anything, because I think
(17:45):
if I've written it in January and I'll come back
to it in April and I'm like, not very good,
that's just at that moment, you might they're waiting for
that song type thing. It might take a whole year
or two or three, and then those lyrics will fit
into a song and your head is in a different space,
(18:06):
so you can kind of look at it in a
retrospective way and form a song from it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I heard Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins say something similar recently,
saying that some of Smashing Pumpkins's best work at the
time of conception, he didn't like it.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
He says, like, you never dislike a song, it's just
you're not ready for it at that time.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I totally agree. And the songs where you think they're
great at first, then you can come back to him
after maybe playing them live a couple of times. I
don't really like that anymore, but people like it. So,
you know, if if you want to please the crowd
and someone likes a certain song, it's or if the
musicians and your band late to play a certain song,
(18:50):
you'll play it. Like there's like one song and it's
a good song, like of mine. But in my opinion
it's decent. But everyone in the band really enjoy playing it.
We've got some really nice parts in it, and they
think that I sing it really well and whatever. But
I just don't really enjoy singing that song anymore. But
(19:12):
I still do it because it's all about you know,
because the band is under my name as well. I
don't want it to just be all about me. I
like my friends who are the musicians in my band
to also enjoy it. You know. I appreciate all of
them being there playing or doing whatever they're doing, but
(19:32):
it's not all about me. I do try to make
that clear.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
So in terms of the band, how's him been going
gig in?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Getting plenty plenty of gigs.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I always get gigs and stuff. It's mainly in
Hull to be honest, and I would like to start
branching out, but at the moment we've got a couple
of bands changes in terms of members and stuff, and
it's it's just beat people being overwhelmed in in other
things aside from music. You know, one of my good friends,
(20:06):
a mutual friend of ours, Rivers, but he's been going
through some things and you know, I love him to
a bit as a great guy and you know, amazing musician.
He does his his solo stuff and he plays mandolin
for me usually, but because he's been going through a
lot of stuff in his day to day life, it's
(20:28):
kind of stepped down. Yeah. He said to me, like
I'll in the future, like once I've sorted myself out,
then if there's a place for me, then I'll come
back and play. It's like, of course there is your
You're a friend first, and I appreciate everything you've done.
We've played loads of gigs together. We traveled to Bradford,
We've done on the Street, sesshon, We've done Spring Springboard
(20:53):
like what you're talking about as well, and all sorts.
And it's nice because I like, I don't know that
people are friends in my band, and that's important for me.
Some people just meet up and practice and play a
gig and that's it. I like to hang out after,
you know, after gigs or like outside of music as well.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, I see being in being in in a group.
It's like being in a relationship and is and you
spend a lot of time with him and you've really
got to be able to tolerate each other.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Avenue.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I think the social element of it is just as
important as the musical element of it sometimes, isn't it,
Because if you're half fast in either of them has
a detrimental effect on you.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
If it's boring or if it's a pick or something,
it's yeah, it's it's a it's a weird thing, isn't it?
A band? And it's people have lives, And I think
that's what people forget when when they're in a band,
and I try my best to remember that as much
as possible. It's not all about me and my project
(21:57):
and blah blah blah. These are people and they're good
friends and stuff. You know, you kind of you have
to adjust. So Yeah, like I said, there's there's a
couple of people stepping down from the roles within the band,
and at the moment we're just bringing a drummer in
and a new bassist and stuff like that, and I
(22:20):
want to build that really strong foundation again and then
we can go from there. It's come out a really
good time actually, because my music, the direction in my
head has changed slightly in terms of sound and stuff,
so kind of writing some new songs, bringing the banjo
in properly live and stuff, and the chre of it's
(22:43):
still there. Was still singing the same songs, bringing a
couple of new ones in, slowly building that foundation again.
And then when when and if Rivers wants to join again,
they can, and you know, everybody else as well or not,
maybe some new people who want to join. Who knows
(23:04):
what the future holds. But all you can do is
just try it right.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
With your genre as well.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
It's it's not uncommon for things to be added and
things to be removed.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Definitely.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
You know, in what I do, if we lost a
guitar arrest and I was like, I'll just gig without it,
It'll be fine, it would you would notice you Whereas
it's a bit more you can add things and take
things away with your stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, And because because it is like my project.
I've written the songs and I'm playing guitar and I'm singing.
I'm like the frontman type person of it, right. I
am the the guy. I can play the solos. I
can play any kind of combination, so I can play
solo players, as a duo, trio, full band. It really
(23:46):
depends on what's going on, what type of gig it is.
Like next week we're playing in a church in Beverly
and that's going to be like a really nice venue
and it's going to be back again. We don't really
have much option at the moment because obviously the drummers
learning the songs. Basis is learning the songs and stuff.
(24:09):
It's annoying because i'd love to play I have a
double bass at home and I'm learning that and i'd
love to play that. I can't really play it live
because I don't think I could sing with it really. Yeah,
But I can always teach people things that I know,
and I'm always up for helping and because I learn
every days a learning experience in it, whether you're doing
(24:31):
music or not. And I'm not the best musician ever.
I would never claim that in my life, but I
like to even go to like folk circles and jam
sessions and stuff where you can learn so much from
other people. Yeah, and it's important because you're supporting people,
(24:51):
you're making friends, and in terms of business and stuff,
you're making new connections and stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think jamming is really important for your own for
your own development as well. Like I've never unlocked new
techniques or anything like that when I'm rehearsing with my band.
It's always when I'm jamming with friends. That's when, yeah,
used to lock new parts of the threat board. Do
you know when my hands are moving now exciting ways
and there's no there's no pressure to not develop that
(25:21):
whilest have been that setting. So I think jamming is
just as important, isn't it, And not just in that
band setting either, just jamming with yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It is, Yeah, because even if it's like a room
full of thirty people. I go to one at the
sun in in Beverly on Saturday, usually bought all seven
and everyone's really nice. I've been taking the double base
there the last couple of Saturdays, and it's like, although
you can hear that, people come up to you like,
(25:52):
oh yeah, really kind of lifts it I'm there to
practice my instrument, whereas I can only stick some music
on and play along with it. But like, and I
don't know, live music is totally different. Unexpected things can happen.
You kind of have to follow that, and you just
become better at the instrument, don't you.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
With your intuition improves as well.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yeah, because every musician is different. Some are better than others,
some most of them are probably better than me. But yeah,
it's you know, it's just you're getting out there and
you're playing. That's the main thing for me.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, it's the main thing for me. It takes precedents
of everything else. I love the process as.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, though.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
I love, you know, someone coming with just a nugget
of something and then watching that flourish and developing recorded
song with the music video, and you know, there's something
about that entire process. And I don't even necessarily know
what it is. I guess it's elements of each part
of it. But there's just something beautiful about creating something
from nothing and putting out and even better if you
(26:58):
get some positive feedback about it.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Isn't it always lifts your spirits, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (27:02):
So what's on the horizon few.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
In terms of releases and upcoming projects, I don't have
anything planned. Obviously you're having a bit of a change
around in terms of members, But is there anything in
the schedule to get some more recording done.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We've got loads of recordings, to be honest, I did
about what was it between twelve and sixteen songs. I
can't remember the exact number. We've got some studio versions
of some of my songs and also some live acoustic
versions as well. I've got my next one coming out
on Friday called never Again, and that was a live take,
(27:39):
not the first take, but I mean it was like
I think we did like thirty or something, and I
think it was number eighteen greatly, And that's just me
singing and guitar, but there's a girl that used to
sing in the band. She's singing harmonies, beautiful voice, like
(28:00):
beautiful harmonies, and then the fiddle as well, Like towards
the end of the song, I just started to throw
something slightly different out. But yeah, there's I'm basically going
through with the producer at the moment, who's just kind
of still mixing some things and editing a little bit
and whatever, and I'm just gonna try and put those out.
(28:23):
But like I say, my sounds changed, so I kind
of just want them out now. Yeah they're still still fine,
but I just want them out so I can start
my new my new things, and my new sound. Like. Yeah,
it's nothing like drastic change, like I'm not going into
heavy metal or anything, but it's like, ah, it's I
I appreciate heavy metal and the musicians that play it,
(28:46):
but it's just not really not my thing.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Completely get it.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
I couldn't sit and listen to it. My head's all
over the place. I have d HD and stuff, and
it's like and like I have to have calm music. Yeah.
I went to see stef Jill Simpson a couple of
weeks ago in Manchester and he had a really nice
blues grass album came out, and I mean it's it's
(29:10):
quite a lot of years old now, but amazing like instrumentation.
He did like blues grass versions of his heavier songs,
but there was and they did those songs, but it
was a very heavy concept and I enjoyed it, but
it was like too heavy for me and it went
more into like the rock, which is fine because I
(29:31):
do I do like it. But I guess you go
through phases of what you listen to. I'm currently listening
to like or Hammer Banja, and like it's really stripped
back and raw, and you know, really nice songs, really
nice lyrics and stuff, which even heavy metal songs can
have nice lyrics, can't they even screamer and stuff. It's
(29:55):
you know, the lyrics are raw, like they go straight
to your heart or or whatever. But just everyone's into
something like different art they I.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Mean, it's a bit of everything made.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
But it's a very limp biscuit intensive week for me
because I just saw him on Thursday in Birmingham, so
I've not listened to him in years, and then the
announcer saw me and the missus got tickets and I'm
so glad i went to see him. Yeah, it was
like it's like ninety ninety nine all over again. I
was three then, so yeah, yeah, I mean I was
only a bit older. But but so you're playing sober
(30:27):
sessions tonight, So what can people expect from your set tonight?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Well, I don't drink, so so just just touching on that.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Why don't you drink? Is that through choice?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So just a yeah, I've never I've never been in thankful,
I've never been in a state of addiction or anything
like that. Doesn't smoke, don't never never smoke, never touch drugs.
Never drank. Well, drank when I was younger, but just
out of choice, I just just don't need it. Yeah,
I can kind of now I've accepted myself more and
(31:03):
I don't have to kind of put any fronts on
or anything, because growing up as a teenager and stuff,
you kind of you always want to fit in, don't you,
And you always like you want to be the joker
or the the laugh of the classroom or the party
or wherever you are, And like, I don't know, I
can do that. I can do that without the alcohol.
(31:25):
I guess. I love just being daft basically, Like I
don't go there without laughing. And I appreciate people who
have had addictions and stuff. And it's a very strong
thing to come out of, isn't it. Like it's a
difficult thing to stop. But yeah, for me personally, I'm
lucky enough to have not had that addiction. But I'm
(31:49):
always there to help people as well if they have.
I've had plenty of friends who have come to me
and be like how do you actually do it? Like
We've been on nights out and I'm there drinking soft drinks,
water or whatever, and it's like, how on earth do
you go on a night out and drink water?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
That's a sad reality, really, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Some people when they're looking at someone who's not drinking
and thinking, fuck, how do they do that?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, because you can see that they want to do
that and like curious about it and stuff. And I
think more and more people are actually stopping drinking or
stopping the amount that they're drinking.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
It's on the decline, isn't it. It really is people's
attitudes towards it. No doubt.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
The cost of living is having an effect. You know,
people can't afford to drink anymore. Yeah, And I think
I think, I don't know whether it's because I'm getting
older and a lot of my friends maybe kind of
becoming of the same opinion, Like, yeah, I like, you know,
I'm not in recovery from alcohol or anything like, but
I barely drink at all because I just I don't
like it, do you know what I mean? Yeah, there's
(32:50):
some situations where it plays a part for me, but
it's very few and far between in drinking to get
drunk is just I couldn't think about drinking to get
drunk anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I like to be in control as well. I like
to you know, if you're out in the city you've
never been or something, and you're so drunk you don't
even know what's going on, and you're trying to walk
back to a hotel or go to the train station
or something, you just never know what. I like to
have my wits about me, and I'm observant. I'm always
like looking around the room and or the street or something.
(33:21):
I'm always aware and I think, well, I know that
being drunk, I don't know. Everything goes out the window,
doesn't it. You can take a situation completely in a
different way than you would if you were sober. You
know where someone's speaking or something, or someone's intentions or
(33:45):
whatever as well. Yeah, I've not I don't know. I
can't remember the last time. It's not like I'm alcohol
free like I think. At Christmas I had I shared
a very small amount of mulled wine with them a
girl I was seeing at the time, because we were
(34:05):
out at a Christmas market and she wanted to try it,
and I was like, yeah, I'll try a little bit.
I probably had a couple of SIPs. It was a
small glass, and it's like, you know, I'm not sure
I'm in control of that situation. I've chosen to just
try it, and a sip isn't going to do anything
for me in a good way or a bad way.
(34:26):
I'm just going to get a bit of a taste
of something. That was the last time I had alcohol,
but before that it was like years. Yeah, people laugh
at me because I always go to there's a bar
in a whole called the Brain Jar, probably been or
that one. They do food and cocktails and stuff, like
(34:46):
really nice cocktails, but they do mocktails and stuff as well,
So I've had those in the past. And they do gigs.
So I've played there and you get a couple of
tokens or whatever and some money for playing. Been like
one of the tokens on a pizza because the pizza.
But then I'll get a green tea or peppermint tea.
(35:07):
People are like, you know, they expect the musicians come
in and just get absolutely wasted, whether it's on on
booze or drugs or something. I'm like, or they'll even
say you're coming out for a smoke and we'll have
a chat. It's like smoke, I'll come out and chat.
But I just don't do any of that and I
(35:27):
don't need it.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
It goes hand in hand there with with creativity. I
guess you know a lot of creative people are wild people.
Goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, there's so many famous musicians who had to be
on drugs or alcohol to write.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Even the reality is probably some of the best music
that just haven't been put out there as a result
of some sort of loucinogenic Yeah, yeah, yeah, but there's
I don't I don't think there's any place for it.
I mean these events where doing his proof that you
don't need it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of course, Yeah, you can have a good time without it. Yeah,
it's trick in your body. Well it's not even tricking.
It's because your body is tricked into thinking you need
that addictive thing like i'lcohol or drugs or whatever. You
have to kind of align yourself again because kids, for example,
(36:22):
they have a weal of a time, don't they, and
that they don't touch any of it, Like it's all
about I don't know. You get older and you start
having stresses and you start thinking about what other people think.
And if we call just kind of forget that and
just let loose a little bit and act like kids
(36:43):
again in the right situations, you know, have fun. Without
all of that playful it would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Cool.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
So back to the music, mate, is there any sort
of dream collaborations or anything like that? I mean, I
bet the is endless, But for most people, they kind
of have one two artists who did really, really really
want to lock in with, and they're all all dead,
to be honest.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Well dead or alive. Then let's rephrase that dead or alive.
Who would be a dream collab.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Towns Bands and Blaze Bowley probably not heard of him now,
he was, to be honest, it's it's in touch with this.
Actually he was an alcoholic. He abused substances as well,
and he was very good friends with Towns Bands And
have you heard of him.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I've heard the name, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not listened now.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So they were very kind of similar, like Towns was
on heroin and stuff like that, and I can't remember
if Blaze was, but he definitely took part in drugs
and stuff, but it was mainly alcohol for him and
they they became friends and they started writing stuff separately
(37:59):
and they did a couple of collabs and stuff as well.
Like Live, it's it's that type of person because it's raw.
It's like again, it's it's from the heart. It's like live,
it's true, it's the truth. It's the experiences they've they've
come from, Like he was homeless type thing. He was
couch surfing and he lived in a treehouse with his
(38:22):
he got he got married and stuff to a Jewish girl.
And there's there's a there's a film about it called Blaze.
Ethan Hawke produced it and stuff and that's great. But yeah,
I'm going off topic now Blaze and Towns and there's
a I don't know, really, I'm trying to think of
(38:43):
people that would kind of fit with my thing, because
they're very much songwriters, so they would, but people who
were alive. Charlie Crockett is a very big influence of
my absolutely love his music. But he's like big, you know,
he's got a band and is real lively on stage,
and he came from playing on street corners and learning
(39:06):
from homeless people like losing stuff, and then he's like
skyrocketed over the last couple of years he was I
would say the best gig I've ever been to. I've
seen him twice, like as an acoustic artist and with
his band, So Charlie Crockett would be great. I chatted
with him for a little bit actually when I went
(39:27):
to see him. Real nice guy and whatever. But yeah,
I would say those I can't really think of anymore
and anyone really because it would just be about playing
music with him. I don't really care about becoming famous
or anything or never my my goal. Like, it's all
(39:48):
about the music. And I could learn something from them,
and I'd love to ask him questions and and see
what they would, you know, see if they liked my
songs or anything that they're writing.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's not an easy question to be asked. Say when
people say who are your influences? So well, fucking who
isn't an influence, do you know what I mean? I
take inspiration from anyone who plays a guitar. You know,
anyone can inspire me, Like on that instrument, you know it.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And everybody plays it so differently. So like I say,
you can learn anything from anybody, like if you're not
if you're not Travis picken in the correct way that
can that can cause a whole different direction of music.
It's like your own style, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I don't like to categorize myself too much. I say
country folk, but I just play and write whatever comes
from my heart. Really. Yeah, it's a bit cliche, isn't it.
But that's just what I do.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
It's all that is really in it. Like, how else
can you describe it?
Speaker 3 (40:49):
At the end of the day, when you playing original music,
how else can you describe it other than you're just
playing something that's authentically you exactly.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
And that's the bit I struggle with.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
I put something down in the band saying it's not
an issue like I said, it's when I'm on my own,
when I'm trying to write my own songs. It's just
like it's not like I haven't got the ability, it's
just the ability to overcome myself, do you know what
I mean?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
Like I say, it's one of the biggest things is that.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Maybe I'm trying for no reason. Maybe I'll never need
to do it, do you know what I mean? But
but again, I've always wanted to do you know.
Speaker 3 (41:21):
Yeah, And I've always been envious some other people have
been able to do yeah, and maybe that's the only
reason I'm starting this podcast, mate, is to try and.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
But I honestly believe that you can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I think you should literally pull an old song
out of a notebook that you've had, or even go
and write a new one and just go to an
open mic and just play it. See what the see
what the reaction is. But even if it's even if
(41:52):
you get some claps and you're like, oh, I wanted
that to be bigger, play it again. I was so
scared about play my first song ever, like like people
are gonna boom me off stage, are going to hate it,
you know, But they didn't. They absolutely loved it and
even actually made someone cry. And I was like, with
(42:13):
the Held album, are that bad? Really?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
That must have been pretty powerful?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, And I do get that quite often now, especially
at the intimate gigs, because people are there to listen
to the songs themselves. And I prefer like the Yeah,
I actually prefer the more intimate gigs now, other like
a big, big festival gig or something. Yeah, And I
think it's because, like I said, people are there to
(42:39):
listen festival gigs if you're playing loud and whatever, I
don't really, I don't know. Some people don't really care
what's being played.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
A bit more of a disconnecting there.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The smaller the venue, they're smaller the set in the
it becomes, doesn't it something When when you go to
a bigger venue you definitely lose something.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, definitely, I don't know. Starting all other places. When
I saw Charlie Crockett with his band versus the acoustic
like step, it was totally different feels. I was at
the front for both of them, like this distance away
from him both times, and it was absolutely amazing like
(43:23):
both of them, but you definitely hitting the heart more
like with the acoustic one. Yeah, And I like it
when big bands like that, they'll step it down a
little bit halfway through the set and they'll maybe do
a couple of songs just acoustic, bring the lights down
there and bring that intimate feel back into the room.
(43:45):
And I guess I tried to do that as well.
Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I'll always try and get everyone to step back and
then I'll just play a song on my own or something.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Try and make the set a bit more dynamic piece.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, it was a bit of variation in the variation's
my key, like my my favorite word. Like, I'm always
trying to make it more of a show and a
bit more of an experience than just there's a guy
with the guitar playing eight songs or something.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
That's exactly it. It sticks out like a so form.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
The difference between someone performing songs or someone performing a
set n't exactly start a difference. That's why we're trying,
really trying to hone in.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
On the minute. And it's what do we do in
the gaps where we're not playing anything.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
That's where we're really trying to hone in.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, we did it space exactly, and we did that
recently and I was like, because there's like a song,
I use a partial Kappa so I can imitate drop
D and I still do like the G chord and
then go down to the D and like, because the
intonations slightly off because you've got that cap on second
(44:47):
threat you have to tune. It's slightly different. Might be
something my guitar, to be honest, but it's if you're
using a Kappa, it's always going to cause that isn't it.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
But yeah, yeah, especially when you've got a fixed brit
it's an acoustic exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
You can't fuck me intonation like you can on a electric.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, exactly. So with that, like I always double check
my tune in after that song when I'm playing back
in standard just normal capo or something, and I always
i'd give the nod to Rivers and I'd be like,
you know, C, C, D and G, and then everyone
would just play that on loop whilst I was just
(45:26):
quickly tuning, and then I'd be like, this is called
trust in Me. That's the next song. That's usually the
next one would play after that. Actually it's just trust
in Me, and we'll go straight into the GH and
carry on from there. And it's like you said, it's
that dead space where things can you know, the audience
are kind of looking around, what's happening.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You want to grab the attention straight away and then
retain that yeah through to the very end, isn't it?
And some times them lures in between songs, it's kind
of yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
You might lose the vibe or like, you know, you
just want to keep that momentum going. Bruce Springsteen did
that really well. I saw him in Germany last year
the year before, and he did three hours straight and
no interval or anything. I was like crazy, it was
like one song into the other. To be fair, stage
(46:19):
Le Simpson did that as well in Manchester. I was
surprised at the amount. He didn't speak. Actually, he hardly
said anything. He just went in and played all the songs.
And I think you've got to get that balance right. Really.
I personally hate talking down the microphone and I'm yapping
away here, but when I'm on stage, I can't stand
(46:43):
anything more than people who were I don't know, they're
talking for five minutes about a two minute song. You
know about what it is, say a couple of sentences
about it. I want to be able to feel the
song rather than no exactly, not.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Be giving someone else as interpretation of them.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, yeah, because I don't know. You can write a
song and if I play a song to you, I'm
feeling the same way, but it might resonate with you
in a different way. You might take a line differently
to how I intended it, And if that works for you, great,
you know That's what I think. But yeah, if people
(47:21):
are talking too long, really, to be honest, a bit
of a fat peeve for me really, but it you know,
like like I said before, it is so important and
you can notice it.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You can really notice it when you see someone perform
their set. Yeah, it's a difference between a well established
act and not being really in a Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
Anyway, Yeah, you've got a bit tight as a band.
It's easier when there's when there's a band, to be honest,
when you're an acoustic artist, it's a little bit harder.
You just have to kind of force yourself to talk
and interact a little bit.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Some people just do it naturally down there. Yeah, I'm
not going have the gift of the gab.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
I'm not really well.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Like I said, it's keeping on point in it.
Speaker 3 (48:00):
And like I said, no one wants to hear some
five minute rhetoric about a song that last two minutes.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
To exactly Honestly, I hate it.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
But I'm really looking forward to listening to your set tonight. Mat.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
Interested to I'm trying to think.
Speaker 3 (48:14):
I don't think i've ever seen someone play lap steel intimately.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Steel, so it's like the next level.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yeah, so heed Steel, You'll you'll hear it on a
lot of country stuff, especially from the seventies. It was
on like every record you get every now and then
we're just chatting about that earlier. Like in modern country.
You do get it. You hear it like as a
bit of a swell in the background. You'll understand when
some players later if you haven't heard it before.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I've heard it before. I've just not so I've been
in the presence of somebody playing it.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Yeah, it's one of my favorite instruments.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
What a unique instrument there.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
It's very hard to few and far between as well,
it's not offing you see them.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, I was very lucky because there's two that I
know about in the whole area, like two people that
can play. Sam being one of them. And he Sam's
played every gig that I've asked him to play and
and it was an excuse to play Pedal Steel live.
And he's come on so much as well in that time.
(49:16):
But then there's a guy called Dave Holly and he's
played all over the World's played Nashville and he went
they went to Scandinavia. We had keep it Cash the
tribute band. It was quite that they've played all of
the world doing Johnny Cash songs. He played pedal steel
in there for a bit as well as electric guitar.
(49:38):
But yeah, so I got hold of Dave and he
did pedal steel on on on the tracks. And now
I've met Sam as well. He plays with me live
and it's going to be recording some for the tracks
as well, just to like put in, Yeah, such a
beautiful instrument, violin and pedal steel. You I've heard a
(50:00):
lot of steel guitar in Hank Williams songs if you've
listened to him, and that was without the pedals. That
kind of added the pedals in later, Yeah, but they
just bend all the notes and stuff basically. Really if
you like look underneath the pedal steel, like the mechanical
sound of it's crazy engineering. Yeah, very beautiful instrument.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
M hm, yeah, I'm saying about yeah, And I've really
enjoyed this conversation. I like to WND my podcast by
just asking who should I be listening to right now?
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Heyler Limp Biscuit.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Really I've written Heiler down as well. How bad that?
Speaker 1 (50:44):
No, I would say listen to Blaze Foley because yeah,
because his songwriting is amazing, and Guy Clark as well.
Guy Clark guy Clark. We're all in the same kind
of town, same area of Texas and stuff like that,
and it's if you're a lover of songs, like songwriting.
(51:04):
They're very poetic and stuff like that along with tones.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
But then I'll check them out.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Thanks again, Tony Yep, thank you very much, thanks for
having me. And if you like what you've heard it,
like and subscribe.
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