May 6, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode of Sounds From The Dockside, we sit down with Hull-based country singer-songwriter Tony Beacock (@tonybeacockmusic). Tony opens up about his journey in the music world, the power of intimate gigs, and why acoustic sets resonate so deeply with both musicians and audiences. He delves into the art of keeping a set dynamic, balancing energy and emotional connection, and avoiding dead space between songs.Tony also shares his passion for banjo and pedal steel guitar, explaining how it has shaped his sound and the magic of performing with it live. He gives valuable insights into the importance of maintaining momentum on stage and creating an unforgettable experience for the crowd.Whether it's the raw vibe of an acoustic set or the unique sound of pedal steel, this episode takes you on a journey into music that resonates, connects, and evolves. Tune in for a conversation that goes beyond just songs — it's all about creating experiences and how music keeps us grounded.🔔 Don’t miss out—follow us for the latest updates and announcements!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yeah, because every musician is different. Some are better than others,
some most of them are probably better than me. But yeah,
it's you know, just you're getting out there and you're playing.
That's the main thing for me.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
So I want to be able to feel the song
rather than no, exactly.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Not be giving someone else's interpretation of it.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You can write a song by play a song to you.
I'm feeling the same way, but it might resonate with
you in a different way. You might take a line
differently to how I intended it. And if that works
for you.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Great, Hello and welcome Hello Episode twelve of the Sounds
(01:12):
from the dark Side podcast with me host Dave in
the engine room. Today we've got singer songwriter Tony Bacok.
How's it going to any? All right?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Ye're not bad? Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I was the journey over here.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it took take us long, to be honest, I
thought it was going to I don't often venture to
grim to be honest, So now it's a nice change.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Really, is this your first time playing live in Grimsby
or have you been out play?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Taking the Grimsby Virginity exactly. But it was me Tony.
You're handsome man. So we like to start the podcast
just by getting to know a bit about the guests.
So music aside, all that side, just tell us a
bit a bit about you. Where'd you grow up? What
makes you you?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm from Hull, East Yorkshire. Yeah, I'm twenty nine. I've
lived my whole life moved towards like the coast in
a village called al Brokay it's like right now, Hauntsy
and stuff like that. Yeah, I just I've always played music.
(02:12):
I've always been around doing things like that. I'm a
software developer in the day, which is completely different to
my music and stuff like that. Yeah, I'm probably interested
in most things. I'm always flitting between different hobbies and
all sorts of really.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
So going back to go back to you really is
was there a lot of music in the household? Was
your parents? Are your parents musicians? They into music? They
keen or now.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Nobody to be honest, now I'm the only musician. Everybody
used to listen to music, but they never played it
or sang or anything. My dad always listened to the
Beach Boys and prints and it did like Johnny Cash
and things like that, so I guess there was some
kind of country and folk influence there.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
But yeah, my grandparents were the Beatles and t Rex and.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Hendrix, quite a range of things really, so I've I've
been exposed to a lot of different music.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Really.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The only stuff I wasn't exposed to was heavy metal
and stuff, which I don't listen to now.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So I'm still.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So when did you first pick up the instrument? Is
guitar your native instrument?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, guitar was first. Did I did I actually start violin?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
It was guitar. In trusting, it was guitar. I only
played violin for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Actually I've picked up again recently, but yeah, guitar was
nine years old.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I got my first guitar head teacher at school. He was.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
On free lessons on Monday night, so I was like, yeah,
let's get in there.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So that's what inspired you to ask for a guitar, Yeah,
because there's some free lessons going on.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm not a cheap sky.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I always find it really interesting to know what makes
people tick, you know, Like for me, it was my
uncle's a guitarists. My dad's a drummer, so we've always been. Yeah,
it was just you know, force fed it. I couldn't
get away from it really, So it's interesting to hear
other people get into music and everyone's unique, you know,
like you've grown up with no sort of musical influence.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, nothing except listening.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I've wound up into it.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So what obviously you clasself as a country musician had
a shame?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah. I usually say country folk.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I mean I have like that the style which is
obviously Western American type.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So when did you first get into country? Was at
a young age when you started listening to country or yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean I always knew Johnny Cash songs and things
like that, But then I went it was weird, really.
I went on Bruce Springsteen, Yeah, and I particularly listened
to the Nebraska album that was really stripped back acoustic guitar,
harmonica and yeah, really nice kind of vibe to it.
And then I went from there. It was actually YouTube
(05:01):
suggesting things to me where I went down the country
road and I was like, that was a bit cliche.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
On that country road.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I didn't mean that the country route, And yeah, I
just came across different people's towns, bands, aunties, not really
well known, but he was more like I don't know,
maybe say American folk music, not country as such, but
he was with from southern the Southern States. I think
(05:33):
it was Fort Worth, Texas he was from, so he
was surrounded by it. And yeah, he played guitar, banjo
and sang as well, and amazing songwriter. There's a lot
of like the songwriter scene from that area and that time,
like seventies and stuff that I was really into and
because it kind of resonated with me as well because
(05:54):
I was by that time, I was playing guitar, I
was wanting to write songs. I didn't actually have the
confidence to write and sing them and I didn't think
I could, but yeah, I kind of went through there
and then it just opened a new world really for me.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So from from picking up you know, first picking up
the guitar to doing your first gig, how long was that?
What was the gap?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Well, the first gigs I used to do were like
I thirteen, I was playing in pubs and stuff like
that and around here there and everywhere around the local area.
It was playing covers, Jolie covers, and it was to
a bunch of old people basically on a Sunday afternoon
in various pubs.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Started. Yeah, you know, I.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Wouldn't change a thing because, like everyone was really appreciative.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Used to say can you play Elvis, Can you play
Buddy Holly? Can you play this? And the other?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
That was before I got into country and all, like
folk music and stuff. It was more well known, well
known songs and stuff an artists and yeah. So it
went from there and then I kind of vanished from
that scene.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I used to just play back at home by myself,
and then Lockdown happened and stuff as well, and I
was like I was going through a breakup and stuff
just at the end of Lockdown and whatever as well,
and that was hard.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
But then it.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Inspired me to write yeah, and I was like, yeah,
I can do it. And I use it as therapy
as well, all the songwriting stuff. And I'm sure a
lot of musicians do as well, whether they're just playing
an instrument or if the songwriting or singing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Other people songs. It's it's amazing what music can do. That,
of course it is.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, it's got it's I don't know, it's taken me
out of some really dark places actually, and you never
know where you tend to and the music was a
really good route for me. Yeah, so yeah, I'm thankful
to music for that, really good itful for it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So growing up in whole, would you say, have that
that has any bearing on your songwriting or on the
themes that you might pick up up on in some
of your songs. So, because country music is a lot
about storytelling, it isn't it. It is definitely inspire some
of the stories you tell for your music.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I just write the truth, really, so I guess it
doesn't matter to me. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It's not really where I am. It's the things I've experienced.
So it's things like a breakup, for example. And I
know there's a million and one heartbreak songs, isn't the
breakup songs whatever?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I'm not like a Taylor Swift where she only writes
the songs. I'm trying to get out of that that bracket. Really,
I enjoy being singing a songwriter, and I'll write about
a lot of different things. But yeah, I'm just trying
to think forgot any I guess I have a couple
of songs where, whilst I was in my lowest moment,
(09:01):
I was like I don't know walking on the beach.
I was at Hauntsey and stuff like that and all
along that coast, so there's some elements of the sea
and beaches, the shore and you know, things like that.
So I guess those have like come into play. But
it's wherever I am and whatever I've experienced. It's just
the truth I try to write.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, just try and sort of highlight their moments in
your life by by writing some music about that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, because like you know, you look, you look at
the moon, for example, while you're walking on on the
beach or something, and it's like I have a song.
It's always sounds more cheesy when you're actually saying it,
doesn't it when you're singing it, and it's all with
instrumentation and context. Yeah, but like you look at the moon,
(09:47):
and I have a song called Guide My Way, and
it's like it's about the moon guide in your way,
and it's all to me.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It's about keeping your heads up. You know.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
There's so many people looking down, whether on the phones
or just not confident with themselves, and I just I
was really low at that point. I was just just
forced me to look up because I saw it and
I was like and all the reflections on the scene
and stuff like that. And I tried to write poetically
(10:18):
but not forced. If you get what I mean. There's
a lot of kind of similarsm metaphors in what I
write and double meanings and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, that's about it. Really.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Could you take me through your songwriting process? And I'm
always keen to know because I'm a musician myself. But
I I write parts, I write hooks, I write some
bobs and then I developed them with my band. I've
tried sitting down and writing songs, start to finish with lyrics,
and sometimes I can write something and then I revisit
(10:51):
a day later, five minutes later, and I'm just I
can't resonate with it again. I'm like, that's awful. I
can't believe I've even written that. What was on about?
You know?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
So?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
What's your song right in process? But not just what
is your song writing process? Have you experienced anything like that?
And if you did, how did you overcome out? How
did you learn to to accept yourself in terms of
writing songs?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah? I think I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It was just the terms of like the confidence thing
of that was a switch just flicked in my head,
and I was just like, I've just got to I've
just got to do it. I don't care what anybody thinks.
I'm trying to tell a story. I'm trying to write
about a story. I'm using it for other reasons such
as therapy, like I've said, and I want to spread
(11:35):
my story, like tell that story to other people and
don't really care if people don't like it because it's
helping myself. But just so happens that they are nice
songs and people do resonate with them, and that every time,
like I've sang a song and people have said, oh,
I really resonate with that, and like you sing like
(11:55):
a line and like yeah, you know, like they really
like get that. It's things like that and that boost
your confidence every time and you're like, yeah, I can
actually do it. So to me, it was just kind
of jumping in and doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So kind of just saying I'm going to do it, yeah,
and the affirmations kind of made you realize.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I think, so, yeah, worth it or yeah it's that
and not caring about what people think. It's I think
it's the mixture of those two things and probably a
couple of other things I can't think of right now,
but that really helped me. What was I going to
say it was? But in terms of the songwriting process itself,
(12:36):
it's different to me every time. Like I've just recently,
I trecked myself to a banjo from twenties and thirties.
I brought that today actually, and I've explored music with that.
I've been getting into the clawhammer banjo, like all time country,
(12:57):
like in the Appalachian Mountains and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And yeah, it's every I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I love learning instruments as well, so each instrument kind
of gives me, like it inspires me, gives me a
different angle or music. So I've been messing about with
open tuning like double C and things like that on
the banjo, and it's like it opens a new world.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Up every time. And then I, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Sometimes it's I'll find something on an instrument and I'm like, okay,
kind of see where that's going. Let's just sing some
random stuff. What's in my head, anything that's in my head,
let's out basically, and I always try and record it
as well and write those down if there's anything decent
(13:45):
apart from that, like In the earlier days when I
was going through that break.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Up and stuff, I used to just write everything.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Down in a notebook and then not look at maybe
come back to it like a month later or two,
and I'd be like, okay, well that fits that bit
of music that I've written, and try and shift some
things about and then it just works. Really so yeah,
I can't really pinpoint exactly my process, but sometimes music first.
(14:15):
Sometimes it's note into lyrics into a song sorry, or
I'll just play something really cool and it's like.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Oh yeah, I've asked a few people this question, and
there's a commonality. It's like there's no one will fits all.
There's no one who just writes songs in one particular method.
Like everyone's drawing integration from anything. You know, an object,
a feeling, an environment running with that, and it seems
to be the same across the board everyone. Everyone draws
inspiration from everything. For me, it's like the most inspiration
(14:49):
comes to me in the most unlikely moments, and you
can guarantee it's when I'm waiting for my missus to
get ready and I'm sat just tinkering around, and then
five minutes later she's like, we off that like one
second'm onto something.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, let me record it or something at least yeah,
because that can I remember that you'd asked about the blockage,
like the creativity.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Blocks and stuff like.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It is that type of thing. And once you've kind
of broken through that and you're in the zerone type thing,
it's hard to just turn off because for me anyway,
I'm thinking about it and I just need that last
line and I can't stop until I've got it. And
then sometimes it just gets too late and you're too tired,
and that break does help.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Every song is different, in my opinion, and the direction
and the angle that you come in is different in
terms of actual like creativity blocks themselves. I think getting
out there and experiencing things helps a lot. And if
you're halfway through a song, go through a walk or something,
you might see something, or something might happen, or something
(15:58):
just clicks in your mind because you're not actively thinking
about that. It happens a lot when I'm doing software,
Like in my job, it's you're trying to solve a problem,
and songwriting can be problem solving. It can be that
type of thing, and I'll be writing a piece of
curdent or whatever and trying to solve an issue and
(16:20):
you just have no chance because you're that you've looked
at it that many times, and you're that you're that
invested in it. You just need to step back and
let I don't know, be distracted for a little bit.
I've heard people like get in the shower and something
will pop up in their head or they'll be walking
(16:41):
and the solution it's just obvious to them, and then
you can go back and finish the song, or you
can finish whatever you're doing, whatever project is.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's almost like I put a bit too much pressure
on myself in terms of lyrics. I think, so, yeah, yeah,
it's like I don't know, I'll put pen to paper
and at the time it's obviously good enough to write down.
Upon reflection, I might what was that?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And I think that's the part you've probably got to overcome,
isn't it. Like I'm sure there's like you have notebooks
or whatever and it's full of great songs, or even
if out of four pages you might have one line,
what's like, yeah, that's real good. They take that and
start a different song, and that could that kind of
(17:24):
force something to happen, you know, like it force a
different angle and inspire in a different way type thing.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I've definitely done that. I've I sometimes look back.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
At old notebooks like years ago, I'm like, oh, that's
actually really good, and I don't know. I never throw
throw it away, never scrap it or anything, because I
think if I've written it in January and I'll come
back to it in April and I'm like, not very good,
that's just at that moment, you might they're waiting for
(17:55):
that song type thing. It might take a whole year
or two or three, and then those lyrics will fit
into a song and your head is in a different space,
so you can kind of look at it in a
retrospective way and form a song from it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I heard Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins say something similar recently,
saying that some of Smashing Pumpkins's best work at the
time of conception, he didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
He says, like, you never dislike a song, it's just
you're not ready for it at that time.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And the songs where you think they're great at first,
then you can come back to him after maybe playing
them live a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I don't really like that anymore, but people like it.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So you know, if if you want to please the
crowd and someone likes a certain song, it's or if
the musicians and your band late to play a certain song.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You'll play it.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Like there's like one song and it's a good song,
like of mine, but in my opinions, decent. But everyone
in the band really enjoy playing it. We've got some
really nice parts in it, and they think that I
sing it really well and whatever. But I just don't
really enjoy singing that song anymore. But I still do
(19:12):
it because it's all about you know, because the band
is under my name as well. I don't want it
to just be all about me. I like my friends
who are the musicians in my band to also enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You know. I appreciate all.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Of them being there playing or doing whatever they're doing,
but it's not all about me.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I do try to make that clear.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah. So in terms of the band, how's them been
going gig in? Yeah, getting plenty plenty of gigs.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I always get gigs and stuff. It's mainly in
Hull to be honest, and I would like to start
branching out, but at the moment we've got a couple
of band changes in terms of members and stuff, and
it's just people being overwhelmed in in other things aside
from music. You know, one of my good friends, a
(20:06):
mutual friend of ours, Rivers, but he's been going through
some things and you know, I love him to a bits,
the great guy and you know, amazing musician. He does
his his solo stuff and he plays mandolin for me usually,
but because he's been going through a lot of stuff
(20:27):
in his day to day life, it's kind of stepped down.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
He said to me, like how in the future, Like,
once I've sorted myself out, then if there's a place
for me, then I'll come back and play. It's like,
of course there is your You're a friend first, and
I appreciate everything you've done. We've played loads of gigs together.
We traveled to Bradford, We've done the Street Sesshon, We've
done Spring Springboard like what you're talking about as well,
(20:54):
and all sorts. And it's nice because I like, I
don't know that people are friends in my band, and
that's important for me.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Some people just meet.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Up and practice and play a gig and that's it.
I like to hang out after, you know, after gigs
or like outside of music as well.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, I see being in being in in a group.
It's like being in a relationship and and you spend
a lot of time with him and you've really got
to be able to tolerate each other avenue.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I think the social element of it is just as
important as the musical element of it sometimes, isn't it,
Because if you're half as in, either of them has
a detrimental effect on you.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
If it's boring or if it's.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
A pick or something, it's yeah, it's it's a it's
a weird thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
A band?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
And it's people have lives, And I think that's what
people forget when when they're in a band, and I
try my best to remember that as much as possible.
It's not all about me and my project and blah
blah blah. These are people and they're good friends and stuff.
You know, you kind of you have to adjust. So yeah,
(22:05):
like I said, there's there's a couple of people stepping
down from the roles within the band, and at the
moment we're just bringing a drummer in and a new
bassist and stuff like that, and I want to build
that really strong foundation again and then we can go
from there. It's come out a really good time actually,
(22:28):
because my music, the direction in my head has changed
slightly in terms of sound and stuff, so kind of
writing some new songs, bringing the banjo in properly live
and stuff, and the chre of it's still there. Were
still singing the same songs, bringing a couple of new
ones in, slowly building that foundation again. And then when
(22:52):
when and if Rivers wants to join again, they can,
and you know, everybody else as well or not, maybe
some new people who want to join.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Who knows what the future holds. But all you can
do is just try it right.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
With your genre as well. It's it's not uncommon for
things to be added than things to be removed, definitely,
you know, in what I do, if we lost a
guitar arrest and was like, I'll just gig without it,
it'll be fine, it would you would notice you Whereas
it's a bit more you can add things and take
things away with your stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, And because because it is like my project,
I've written the songs and I'm playing guitar and I'm singing.
I'm like the frontman type personal bit right, I am
the the guy. I can play the solos. I can
play any kind of combination, so I can play solo players,
as a duo, trio, full band. It really depends on
(23:48):
what's going on, what type of gig it is. Like
next week we're playing in a church.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
In Beverly.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
That's going to be like a really nice venue and
it's going to be back again. We don't really have
much option at the moment because obviously the drummers learning
the songs basis is learning the songs and stuff. It's
annoying because i'd love to play. I have a double
bass at home and I'm learning that and i'd love
to play that. I can't really play it live because
(24:18):
I don't think I could sing with it really, Yeah,
but I can always teach people things that I know,
and I'm always up for helping and because I learn
every days a learning experience in it, whether you're doing
music or not. And I'm not the best musician ever,
I would never claim that in my life, but I
(24:40):
like to even go to like folk circles and jam
sessions and stuff where you can learn so much from
other people. Yeah, and it's important because you're supporting people,
you're making friends, and in terms of business and stuff,
you're making new connections and stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think jamming is really important for your own for
your own development as well. Like I've never unlocked new
techniques or anything like that when I'm rehearsing with my band.
It's always when I'm jamming with friends. That's when yeah,
used to lock new parts of the threat board. Do
you know when my hands are moving now exciting ways
and there's no there's no pressure to not develop that
(25:21):
whilest have been that setting. So I think jamming is
just as important, isn't it, And not just in that
band setting either, just jamming with yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It is, yeah, because it even if it's like a
room full of thir two people. I go to one
at the sun In in Beverly on Saturday, usually bought
all seven and everyone's really nice. I've been taking the
double base there the last couple of Saturdays, and it's like,
although you can hear that, people come up to you like,
(25:52):
oh yeah, it really kind of lifts it. I'm there
to practice my instrument, whereas I can only stick some
music on and play along with it. But like, and
I don't know, live music is totally different. Unexpected things
can happen. You kind of have to follow that, and
you just become better at the instrument, don't Your intuition
(26:15):
improves as well, Yeah, because every musician is different. Some
are better than others, some most of them are probably
better than me. But yeah, it's you know, it's just
you're getting out there and you're playing. That's the main
thing for me.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, it's the main thing for me. It takes precedents
of everything else. I love the process as well, though.
I love, you know, someone coming with just a nugget
of something and then watching that flourish and developing recorded
song with the music video, and you know, there's something
about that entire process, and I don't even necessarily know
what it is. I guess it's element to each part
(26:51):
of it. But there's just something beautiful about creating something
from nothing and putting out and even better if you
get some positive feedback about it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Isn't It always lifts your spirits, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
So what's on the horizon? Few in terms of releases
and upcoming projects, have anything planned? Obviously you're having a
bit of a change around in terms of members, but
is there anything in the schedule to get some more
recording on.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We've got loads of recordings, to be honest, I did
about what was it between twelve and sixteen songs.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I can't remember the exact number.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
We've got some studio versions of some of my songs
and also some live acoustic versions as well. I've got
my next one coming out on Friday called never Again,
and that was a live take, not the first take,
but I mean it was like I think we did
(27:42):
like thirty or something and I think it was number
eighteen greatly, And that's just me singing and guitars, a
girl that used.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
To sing in the band.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
She's singing harmonies, beautiful voice, like beautiful harmonies, and then
the fiddle as well, Like towards the end of the song,
I just started to throw something slightly different out. But yeah,
there's I'm basically going through with the producer at the moment,
who's just kind of still mixing some things and editing
(28:18):
a little bit and whatever, and I'm just gonna try
and put those out. But like I say, my sounds changed,
so I kind of just want them out now. Yeah
they're still still fine, but I just want them out
so I can start on my new my new things
and my new sound. Like Yeah, it's nothing like drastic change,
like I'm not going too heavy metal or anything, but
(28:39):
it's like, ah, it's I I appreciate heavy metal and
the musicians that play it, but it's just not really
not my thing completely get it. I couldn't sit and
listen to it. My head's all over the place and
I have d HD and stuff and it's like and
like I have to have calm music.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I went to see stef Jill Simpson a couple of
weeks ago in Manchester and he had a really nice
blues grass album came out and I mean it's it's
quite a lot of years old now but amazing like instrumentation.
He did like blues grass versions of his heavier songs,
(29:19):
but there was and they did those songs, but it
was a very heavy concept and I enjoyed it, but
it was like too heavy for me and it went
more into like the rock, which is fine because I
do I do like it, but I guess you go
through phases of what you listen to. I'm currently listening
to like or Hammer Banja, and like it's really stripped
(29:42):
back and raw, and you know, really nice songs, really
nice lyrics and stuff, which even heavy metal songs can
have nice lyrics, can't even screamer and stuff. It's you know,
the lyrics are raw, like they go straight to your
heart or or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But just everyone's into something like different art they I.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Mean, it's a bit of everything made. But it's a
very limp biscuit intensive week for me because I just
saw him on Thursday in Birmingham, so I've not listened
to him in years. And then the announcer saw me
and the missus got tickets and I'm so glad i
went to see him. Yeah, it was like it's like
ninety ninety nine all over again. I was three then,
so yeah, yeah, I mean I was only a bit older.
But but so you're playing sober sessions tonight, So what
(30:28):
can people expect from your set tonight?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Well I don't drink, so so just just touching on that.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Why don't you drink? Is that through choice?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So just a yeah, I've never I've never been in thankful,
I've never been in a state of addiction or anything
like that. Doesn't smoke and never never smoke, never touch drugs,
never drank. Well, drank when I was younger, but just
out of choice. I just just don't need it. Yeah,
I can kind of now I've accepted myself more and
(31:03):
I don't have to kind of put any fronts on
or anything, because growing up as a teenager and stuff,
you kind of you always want to fit in, don't you,
And you always like you want to be the joker
or the the laugh of the classroom or the party
or wherever you are, and like, I.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Don't know, I can do that. I can do that
without the alcohol. I guess.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I love just being daft basically, like I don't go
there without laughing. And I appreciate people who have had
addictions and stuff. And it's a very strong thing to
come out of, isn't it. Like it's a difficult thing
to stop. But yeah, for me personally, I'm lucky enough
to have not had that addiction. But I'm always there
(31:50):
to help people as well if they have. I've had
plenty of friends who have come to me and be like,
how do you actually do it? Like we've been on
nights out and I'm the drinking soft drinks water or whatever,
and it's like, how on earth do you go on
a night out and drink water?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
That's a sad reality, really, isn't it. Some people when
they're looking at someone who's not drinking and thinking, fuck,
how do they do that?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, because you can see that they want to do
that and like curious about it and stuff. And I
think more and more people are actually stopping drinking or
stopping the amount that they're drinking.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
It's on the decline, isn't it. It really is people's
attitude towards it. No doubt the cost of living is
having an effect. Yeah, you know, people can't afford to
drink anymore. Yeah, and I think I think I don't
know whether it's because I'm getting older and a lot
of my friends who may be kind of becoming of
the same opinion, Like, yeah, I like, you know, I'm
(32:44):
not in recovery from alcohol or anything like, but I
barely drink at all because I just I don't like it,
do you know what I mean? Yeah, there's some situations
where it plays a part for me, but it's very
few and far between. Drinking to get drunk is just
I couldn't think about drinking to get drunk anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I like to be in control as well. I like
to you know, if you're out in the city you've
never been or something, and you're so drunk you don't
even know what's going on, and you're trying to walk
back to a hotel or go to the train station
or something, you just never know what. I like to
have my wits about me and I'm observing. I'm always
like looking around the room and or the street or something.
(33:21):
I'm always aware, and I think I know that being drunk,
I don't know. Everything goes out the window, doesn't it.
You can take a situation completely in a different way
than you would.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
If you were sober.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Where someone's speaking or something, or someone's intentions or whatever
as well. Yeah, I've not I don't know. I can't
remember the last time. It's not like I'm alcohol free
like I think. At Christmas I had I shared a
very small amount of mouled wine with them a girl
(34:02):
I was seeing at the time because we were out
at a Christmas market and she wanted to try it,
and I was like, yeah, I'll try a little bit.
I probably had a couple of SIPs. It was a
small class and it's like, you know, I'm not sure
I'm in control of that situation. I've chosen to just
try it, and a sip isn't going to do anything
(34:23):
for me in a good way or a bad way.
I'm just going to get a bit of a taste
of something. That was the last time I had alcohol, But.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Before that it was like years.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, people left at me because I always got to
There's a bar in in Whole called the Brain Jar,
probably been or that one. They do food and cocktails
and stuff, like really nice cocktails, but they do mocktails
and stuff as well, so I've had those in the past.
And they do gigs, so I've played there, and you
(34:55):
get a couple of tokens or whatever and some money
for playing. I'll just spend like one of the tokens
on a pizza because the pizza, but then I'll get
a green tea or peppermint tea. People are like, you know,
they expect the musicians come in and just get absolutely wasted,
whether it's on on booze or drugs or something. I'm like,
(35:18):
or they'll even say you're coming out for a smoke
and we'll have a chat. It's like smoke. I'll come
out and chat, but I just don't do any of
that and I don't need it.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
It goes hand in hand though, with with creativity. I
guess you know a lot of creative people are wild people.
Goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, there's so many famous musicians who had to be
on drugs or alcohol to write.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Even the reality is probably some of the best music
that just haven't been put out there as a result of.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Some sort of loucinogenic Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yeah, yeah, but there's I don't I don't think there's
any place for it. I mean, these events where doing
his proof that you don't need it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of course, Yeah, you can have a good time without it. Yeah,
it's just trick in your body. Well, it's not even tricking.
It's because your body is tricked into thinking you need
that addictive thing.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Like i'lcohol or drugs or whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
You have to kind of align yourself again because kids,
for example, they have a weal of a time, don't they,
and that they don't touch any of it, like it's
all about I don't know. You get older and you
start having stresses, and you start thinking about what other
people think and if we call just kind of forget
(36:38):
that and just let loose a little bit and act
like kids again in the right situations, you know, have fun.
Without all of that playful it would be amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Cool. So back to your music mate, is there any
sort of dream collaborations or anything like that? I mean,
I bet that is endless. But for most people, they
kind of have one two artists who did really, really
really want to lock in with, and then they're all,
to be honest, well, dead or alive. Then let's rephrase
that dead or alive. Who would be a dream collab.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Towns Bands and Blaze Bowley probably not heard of him now,
he was, to be honest, it's it's in touch with this.
Actually he was an alcoholic. He abused substances as well,
and he was very good friends with Towns Bands and
have you heard of him.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I've heard the name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not listened now.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So they were very kind of similar, like Towns was
on heroin and stuff like that, and I can't remember
if Blaze was, but he definitely took part in drugs
and stuff, but it was mainly alcohol for him. And
they became friends and they started writing stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Separately.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
And they did a couple of collabs and stuff as well.
Like Live, it's it's that type of person because it's raw.
It's like again, it's it's from the heart. It's like live,
it's true, it's the truth. It's the experiences they've they've
come from. Like he was homeless type thing. He was
couch surfing and he lived in a treehouse with his
(38:22):
he got he got married and stuff to a Jewish girl.
And there's a there's a there's a film about it
called Blaze. Ethan Hawke produced it and stuff and that's great.
But yeah, I'm off topic now Blaze and Towns and
there's a I don't know, really, I'm trying to think
(38:43):
of people that would kind of fit with my thing,
because they're very much songwriters, so they would, but people
who were alive. Charlie Crockett is a very big influence
of mine. I absolutely love his music. But he's like big,
you know, he's got a band and is real lively
on stage, and he came from playing on street corners
(39:05):
and learning from homeless people losing stuff, and then he's
like skyrocketed over the last couple of years. He was
I would say the best gig I've ever been to.
I've seen him twice, like as an acoustic artist and
with his band. So Charlie Crockett would be great. I
chatted with him for a little bit actually when I
(39:27):
went to see him. Real nice guy and whatever. But yeah,
I would say tho, I can't really think of anymore
and anyone really because it would just be about playing
music with him. I don't really care about becoming famous
or anything or never my my goal.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Like, it's all about the music.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And I could learn something from them, and I'd love
to ask him questions and and see what they would,
you know, see if they liked my songs or anything
that they're writing.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's not an easy question to be asked. Say when
people say who are your influences? So, well, fucking who
isn't an influence? Do you know what I mean? I
take inspiration from anyone who plays a guitar. You know,
anyone can inspire me, like on that instrument, you know it.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And everybody plays it so differently. So like I say,
you can lend anything from anybody, like if you're not
if you're not Travis Picken in the correct way, that
can that can cause a whole different direction of music.
It's like your own style, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I don't like to categorize myself too much. I say,
country folk, but I just play and write whatever comes
from my heart.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Really. Yeah, it's a bit cliche, isn't it. But that's
just what I do.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
That's all it is really in it, Like, how else
can you describe it? At the end of the day,
when you playing original music, how else can you describe
it other than you're just playing something that's authentically you exactly.
And that's the bit I struggle with. I put something
down in the band seting. It's not an issue like
I said, it's when I'm on my own, when I'm
trying to write my own songs. It's just like it's
(41:06):
not like I haven't got the ability, it's just the
ability to overcome myself, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Like I say, it's one of the biggest things is that.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Maybe I'm trying for no reason. Maybe I'll never need
to do it, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But but again, I've.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Always wanted to do you know, Yeah, And I've always
been envious of other people have been able to do yeah,
And maybe that's The only reason I'm starting this podcast, mate,
is to try and effect.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
But I honestly believe that you can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I think you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Should literally pull an old song out of a notebook
that you've had, or even go and write a new
one and just go to an open mic and just
play it. See what the see what the reaction is.
But even if it's even if you get some claps
and you're like, oh, I wanted that to be bigger,
play it again. I was so scared about play my
(42:00):
first song ever, like like people are gonna boom me
off stage, is gonna hate it, you know?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
But they didn't.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
They absolutely loved it and it even actually made someone cry.
And I was like, with the Held album, are that bad?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Really?
Speaker 3 (42:16):
That must have been pretty powerful?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, And I do get that quite often now, especially
at the intimate gigs, because people are there to listen
to the songs themselves. And I prefer like the Yeah,
I actually prefer the more intimate gigs now, other like
a big, big festival gig or something.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah. And I think it's.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Because, like I said, people are there to listen festival
gigs if you're playing loud and whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I don't really. I don't know. Some people don't really
care what's being played.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
A bit more of a disconnecting there.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The smaller the venue, the smaller the set in the Yeah,
it becomes, doesn't it something when when you go to
a biger venue and you definitely lose something.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I don't know starting all other places. When I saw
Charlie Crockett with his band versus the acoustic like step,
it was totally different feels. I was at the front
for both of them, like this distance away from him
both times, and it was absolutely amazing like both of them,
(43:24):
but you definitely hitting the heart more.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Like with the acoustic one.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, And I like it when big bands like that,
they'll step it down a little bit halfway through the
set and they'll maybe do a couple of songs just acoustic,
bring the lights down there and bring that intimate feel
back into the room. And I guess I tried to
do that as well.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I'll always try and get everyone to step back and
then I'll just play a song on my own or something.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Try and make the set a bit more dynamic piece.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, it was a bit of variation in the variation's
my key, like my my favorite word. Like, I'm always
trying to make it more of a show and a
bit more of an experience than just oh, there's a
guy with the guitar playing eight songs or something.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
That's exactly it. It sticks out like a sore form.
The difference between someone performing songs or someone performing a
set n't exactly stark difference. That's why we're trying, really
trying to hone in on the minute. And it's what
do we do in them gaps where we're not playing anything? Yeah,
you know what I mean. That's where we're really trying
to hone in.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, we did it space exactly, and we did that recently.
And I was like, because there's like a song, I
use a partial Kappa so I can imitate drop D
and I still do like the G chord and then
go down to the D and like, because the intonations
slightly off because you've got that cap on second threat
(44:47):
you have to tune.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
It's slightly different.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Might be something my guitar, to be honest, but it's
if you're using a Kappa, it's always going to cause
that isn't it.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
But yeah, yeah, especially when you've got a fixed brit
it's an acoustic yeah exactly. You can't fuck me intonation
like you can on any.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Trek, yeah exactly. So with that, like.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I always double check my tune in after that song
when I'm playing back in standard just normal capo or something,
and I always i'd give the nod to Rivers and
I'd be like, you know, C, C, D and G,
and then everyone would just play that on loop whilst
I was just quickly tuning, and then I'd be like,
(45:29):
this is called trust in Me.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
That's the next one.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
That's usually the next one would play after that. Actually
it's just trusting me, and we'll go straight into the
GH and carry on from there. And it's like you said,
it's that dead space where things can you know, the
audience are kind of looking around, what's happening.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You want to grab the attention straight away and then
retain that, yeah through to the very end, isn't it.
And some times them lures in between songs, it's kind of.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, you might lose the vibe or like, you know,
you just want to keep that momentum going. Bruce Springsteen
did that really well. I saw him in Germany last
year or the year before and he did three hours
straight and no interval or anything. I was like crazy,
it was like one song into the other to be
(46:19):
fair stage or Simpson did that.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
As well in Manchester.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
He I was surprised at the amount. He didn't speak, actually,
he hardly said anything. He just went in and played
all the songs. And I think you've got to get
that balance.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Right, really.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
I personally hate talking down the microphone and I'm yapping
away here, but when I'm on stage, I can't stand
anything more than people who were I don't know, they're
talking for five minutes about a two minute song, you
know about what it is, say a couple of sentences
about it. I want to be able to feel the
(46:56):
song rather than no exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Not be giving someone else as interpretation of them.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, yeah, because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
You can write a song and if I play a
song to you, I'm feeling the same way, but it
might resonate with you in a different way. You might
take a line differently to how I intended it. And
if that works for you, great, you know that's what
I think. But yeah, if people are talking too long, really,
(47:24):
to be honest, a bit of a fat peeve for me, really,
but it you know, like like I said before, it
is so important and you can notice it.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You can really notice it when you see someone perform
their set. Yeah, it's a difference between a well established
act and not being really in a Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Anyway, Yeah, you've got a bit tight as a band.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
It's easier when there's when there's a band, to be honest,
when you're an acoustic artist, it's a little bit harder.
You just have to kind of force yourself to talk
and interact a little bit.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Some people just do it naturally down there. Yeah, I'm
not being able the gift to the gap.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
I'm not really well.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Like I said, it's keeping on point in it. And
like I said, no one wants to hear some five
minute rhetoric about a song that last two minutes to.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Exactly I want.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
I hate it, but I'm really looking forward to listening
to your set tonight. Mate.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Interested to I'm trying to think. I don't think i've
ever seen someone play lap steel, intimately.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Steel, so it's like the next level. Yeah, so he'll steel.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
You'll you'll hear it on a lot of country stuff,
especially from the seventies. It was on like every record
you get every now and then we're just chatting about
that earlier. Like in modern country, you do get it.
You hear it like as a bit of a swell
in the background. You'll understand when some players later if
you haven't heard it before.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I've heard it before. I've just not said I've been
in the presence of somebody playing it.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, it's one of my favorite instruments.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
What a unique instrument there. It's very hard to few
and far between as well, it's not offing you see them.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Yeah, I was very lucky because.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
There's two that I know about in the whole area,
like two people that can play. Sam being one of them,
and he Sam's played every gig that I've asked him
to play, and and it was an excuse to play
Pedal Steel live. And it's come on so much as
well in that time. But then there's a guy called
Dave Holly and he's played all over the world, played
(49:22):
Nashville and he went they went to Scandinavia. We had
to keep it Cash the tribute band. It was quite
that they've played all of the world doing Johnny Cash songs.
He played Pedal steel in there for a bit as
well as electric guitar.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
But yeah, so I got hold.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Of Dave and he did pedal steel on on on
the tracks. And now I've met Sam as well. He
plays with me live and it's going to be recording
some for the tracks as well, just to like put in, Yes,
such a beautiful instrument, violin and pedal steel.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
You.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I've heard a lot of steel guitar in Hank Williams
songs if you've listened to him, and that was without
the pedals. That kind of added the pedals in later, Yeah,
but they just bend all the notes.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
And stuff basically.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Really if you like look underneath the pedal steel, like
the mechanical sound of it's crazy engineering.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, very beautiful instrument.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
Mhm. Yeah, I'm for saying about yeah, And I've really
enjoyed his conversation. I like to WND my podcast by
just asking who should I be listening to right now?
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Heyler Limp Biscuit.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
Really I've written Heiler down as well. How bad that?
Speaker 1 (50:44):
No, I would say listen to Blaze Foley because yeah,
because his songwriting is amazing.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
And Guy Clark as well, Guy Clark, Guy Clark, We're all.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
In the same kind of town, same area of Texas
and stuff like that. If you're a lover of songs
like songwriting, they're very poetic and stuff like that, along
with tones.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
But then I'll check them out. Thanks again, Tony Yep,
thank you very much, thanks for having me, And if
you like what you've heard it like and subscribe.
Yeah, because every musician is different. Some are better than others,
some most of them are probably better than me. But yeah,
it's you know, just you're getting out there and you're playing.
That's the main thing for me.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
So I want to be able to feel the song
rather than no, exactly.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Not be giving someone else's interpretation of it.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yeah, because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
You can write a song by play a song to you.
I'm feeling the same way, but it might resonate with
you in a different way. You might take a line
differently to how I intended it. And if that works
for you.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Great, Hello and welcome Hello Episode twelve of the Sounds
(01:12):
from the dark Side podcast with me host Dave in
the engine room. Today we've got singer songwriter Tony Bacok.
How's it going to any? All right?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Ye're not bad? Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I was the journey over here.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it took take us long, to be honest, I
thought it was going to I don't often venture to
grim to be honest, So now it's a nice change.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Really, is this your first time playing live in Grimsby
or have you been out play?
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Nice?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Taking the Grimsby Virginity exactly. But it was me Tony.
You're handsome man. So we like to start the podcast
just by getting to know a bit about the guests.
So music aside, all that side, just tell us a
bit a bit about you. Where'd you grow up? What
makes you you?
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So?
Speaker 1 (01:51):
I'm from Hull, East Yorkshire. Yeah, I'm twenty nine. I've
lived my whole life moved towards like the coast in
a village called al Brokay it's like right now, Hauntsy
and stuff like that. Yeah, I just I've always played music.
(02:12):
I've always been around doing things like that. I'm a
software developer in the day, which is completely different to
my music and stuff like that. Yeah, I'm probably interested
in most things. I'm always flitting between different hobbies and
all sorts of really.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
So going back to go back to you really is
was there a lot of music in the household? Was
your parents? Are your parents musicians? They into music? They
keen or now.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Nobody to be honest, now I'm the only musician. Everybody
used to listen to music, but they never played it
or sang or anything. My dad always listened to the
Beach Boys and prints and it did like Johnny Cash
and things like that, so I guess there was some
kind of country and folk influence there.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
But yeah, my grandparents were the Beatles and t Rex and.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Hendrix, quite a range of things really, so I've I've
been exposed to a lot of different music.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Really.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
The only stuff I wasn't exposed to was heavy metal
and stuff, which I don't listen to now.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
So I'm still.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So when did you first pick up the instrument? Is
guitar your native instrument?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, guitar was first. Did I did I actually start violin?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
It was guitar. In trusting, it was guitar. I only
played violin for a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Actually I've picked up again recently, but yeah, guitar was
nine years old.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
I got my first guitar head teacher at school. He was.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
On free lessons on Monday night, so I was like, yeah,
let's get in there.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
So that's what inspired you to ask for a guitar, Yeah,
because there's some free lessons going on.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I'm not a cheap sky.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I always find it really interesting to know what makes
people tick, you know, Like for me, it was my
uncle's a guitarists. My dad's a drummer, so we've always been. Yeah,
it was just you know, force fed it. I couldn't
get away from it really, So it's interesting to hear
other people get into music and everyone's unique, you know,
like you've grown up with no sort of musical influence.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, nothing except listening.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
I've wound up into it.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
So what obviously you clasself as a country musician had
a shame?
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah. I usually say country folk.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I mean I have like that the style which is
obviously Western American type.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
So when did you first get into country? Was at
a young age when you started listening to country or yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:38):
I mean I always knew Johnny Cash songs and things
like that, But then I went it was weird, really.
I went on Bruce Springsteen, Yeah, and I particularly listened
to the Nebraska album that was really stripped back acoustic guitar,
harmonica and yeah, really nice kind of vibe to it.
And then I went from there. It was actually YouTube
(05:01):
suggesting things to me where I went down the country
road and I was like, that was a bit cliche.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
On that country road.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I didn't mean that the country route, And yeah, I
just came across different people's towns, bands, aunties, not really
well known, but he was more like I don't know,
maybe say American folk music, not country as such, but
he was with from southern the Southern States. I think
(05:33):
it was Fort Worth, Texas he was from, so he
was surrounded by it. And yeah, he played guitar, banjo
and sang as well, and amazing songwriter. There's a lot
of like the songwriter scene from that area and that time,
like seventies and stuff that I was really into and
because it kind of resonated with me as well because
(05:54):
I was by that time, I was playing guitar, I
was wanting to write songs. I didn't actually have the
confidence to write and sing them and I didn't think
I could, but yeah, I kind of went through there
and then it just opened a new world really for me.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
So from from picking up you know, first picking up
the guitar to doing your first gig, how long was that?
What was the gap?
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Well, the first gigs I used to do were like
I thirteen, I was playing in pubs and stuff like
that and around here there and everywhere around the local area.
It was playing covers, Jolie covers, and it was to
a bunch of old people basically on a Sunday afternoon
in various pubs.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Started. Yeah, you know, I.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Wouldn't change a thing because, like everyone was really appreciative.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Used to say can you play Elvis, Can you play
Buddy Holly? Can you play this? And the other?
Speaker 1 (06:48):
That was before I got into country and all, like
folk music and stuff. It was more well known, well
known songs and stuff an artists and yeah. So it
went from there and then I kind of vanished from
that scene.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Now.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I used to just play back at home by myself,
and then Lockdown happened and stuff as well, and I
was like I was going through a breakup and stuff
just at the end of Lockdown and whatever as well,
and that was hard.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
But then it.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Inspired me to write yeah, and I was like, yeah,
I can do it. And I use it as therapy
as well, all the songwriting stuff. And I'm sure a
lot of musicians do as well, whether they're just playing
an instrument or if the songwriting or singing.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Other people songs. It's it's amazing what music can do. That,
of course it is.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah, it's got it's I don't know, it's taken me
out of some really dark places actually, and you never
know where you tend to and the music was a
really good route for me. Yeah, so yeah, I'm thankful
to music for that, really good itful for it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
So growing up in whole, would you say, have that
that has any bearing on your songwriting or on the
themes that you might pick up up on in some
of your songs. So, because country music is a lot
about storytelling, it isn't it. It is definitely inspire some
of the stories you tell for your music.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
I just write the truth, really, so I guess it
doesn't matter to me. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
It's not really where I am. It's the things I've experienced.
So it's things like a breakup, for example. And I
know there's a million and one heartbreak songs, isn't the
breakup songs whatever?
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
I'm not like a Taylor Swift where she only writes
the songs. I'm trying to get out of that that bracket. Really,
I enjoy being singing a songwriter, and I'll write about
a lot of different things. But yeah, I'm just trying
to think forgot any I guess I have a couple
of songs where, whilst I was in my lowest moment,
(09:01):
I was like I don't know walking on the beach.
I was at Hauntsey and stuff like that and all
along that coast, so there's some elements of the sea
and beaches, the shore and you know, things like that.
So I guess those have like come into play. But
it's wherever I am and whatever I've experienced. It's just
the truth I try to write.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, just try and sort of highlight their moments in
your life by by writing some music about that.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Yeah, because like you know, you look, you look at
the moon, for example, while you're walking on on the
beach or something, and it's like I have a song.
It's always sounds more cheesy when you're actually saying it,
doesn't it when you're singing it, and it's all with
instrumentation and context. Yeah, but like you look at the moon,
(09:47):
and I have a song called Guide My Way, and
it's like it's about the moon guide in your way,
and it's all to me.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
It's about keeping your heads up. You know.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
There's so many people looking down, whether on the phones
or just not confident with themselves, and I just I
was really low at that point. I was just just
forced me to look up because I saw it and
I was like and all the reflections on the scene
and stuff like that. And I tried to write poetically
(10:18):
but not forced. If you get what I mean. There's
a lot of kind of similarsm metaphors in what I
write and double meanings and stuff.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, that's about it. Really.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Could you take me through your songwriting process? And I'm
always keen to know because I'm a musician myself. But
I I write parts, I write hooks, I write some
bobs and then I developed them with my band. I've
tried sitting down and writing songs, start to finish with lyrics,
and sometimes I can write something and then I revisit
(10:51):
a day later, five minutes later, and I'm just I
can't resonate with it again. I'm like, that's awful. I
can't believe I've even written that. What was on about?
You know?
Speaker 1 (10:59):
So?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
What's your song right in process? But not just what
is your song writing process? Have you experienced anything like that?
And if you did, how did you overcome out? How
did you learn to to accept yourself in terms of
writing songs?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Yeah? I think I don't know.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It was just the terms of like the confidence thing
of that was a switch just flicked in my head,
and I was just like, I've just got to I've
just got to do it. I don't care what anybody thinks.
I'm trying to tell a story. I'm trying to write
about a story. I'm using it for other reasons such
as therapy, like I've said, and I want to spread
(11:35):
my story, like tell that story to other people and
don't really care if people don't like it because it's
helping myself. But just so happens that they are nice
songs and people do resonate with them, and that every time,
like I've sang a song and people have said, oh,
I really resonate with that, and like you sing like
(11:55):
a line and like yeah, you know, like they really
like get that. It's things like that and that boost
your confidence every time and you're like, yeah, I can
actually do it. So to me, it was just kind
of jumping in and doing it.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So kind of just saying I'm going to do it, yeah,
and the affirmations kind of made you realize.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I think, so, yeah, worth it or yeah it's that
and not caring about what people think. It's I think
it's the mixture of those two things and probably a
couple of other things I can't think of right now,
but that really helped me. What was I going to
say it was? But in terms of the songwriting process itself,
(12:36):
it's different to me every time. Like I've just recently,
I trecked myself to a banjo from twenties and thirties.
I brought that today actually, and I've explored music with that.
I've been getting into the clawhammer banjo, like all time country,
(12:57):
like in the Appalachian Mountains and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
And yeah, it's every I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
I love learning instruments as well, so each instrument kind
of gives me, like it inspires me, gives me a
different angle or music. So I've been messing about with
open tuning like double C and things like that on
the banjo, and it's like it opens a new world.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Up every time. And then I, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Sometimes it's I'll find something on an instrument and I'm like, okay,
kind of see where that's going. Let's just sing some
random stuff. What's in my head, anything that's in my head,
let's out basically, and I always try and record it
as well and write those down if there's anything decent
(13:45):
apart from that, like In the earlier days when I
was going through that break.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Up and stuff, I used to just write everything.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Down in a notebook and then not look at maybe
come back to it like a month later or two,
and I'd be like, okay, well that fits that bit
of music that I've written, and try and shift some
things about and then it just works. Really so yeah,
I can't really pinpoint exactly my process, but sometimes music first.
(14:15):
Sometimes it's note into lyrics into a song sorry, or
I'll just play something really cool and it's like.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Oh yeah, I've asked a few people this question, and
there's a commonality. It's like there's no one will fits all.
There's no one who just writes songs in one particular method.
Like everyone's drawing integration from anything. You know, an object,
a feeling, an environment running with that, and it seems
to be the same across the board everyone. Everyone draws
inspiration from everything. For me, it's like the most inspiration
(14:49):
comes to me in the most unlikely moments, and you
can guarantee it's when I'm waiting for my missus to
get ready and I'm sat just tinkering around, and then
five minutes later she's like, we off that like one
second'm onto something.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Yeah, let me record it or something at least yeah,
because that can I remember that you'd asked about the blockage,
like the creativity.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Blocks and stuff like.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It is that type of thing. And once you've kind
of broken through that and you're in the zerone type thing,
it's hard to just turn off because for me anyway,
I'm thinking about it and I just need that last
line and I can't stop until I've got it. And
then sometimes it just gets too late and you're too tired,
and that break does help.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Every song is different, in my opinion, and the direction
and the angle that you come in is different in
terms of actual like creativity blocks themselves. I think getting
out there and experiencing things helps a lot. And if
you're halfway through a song, go through a walk or something,
you might see something, or something might happen, or something
(15:58):
just clicks in your mind because you're not actively thinking
about that. It happens a lot when I'm doing software,
Like in my job, it's you're trying to solve a problem,
and songwriting can be problem solving. It can be that
type of thing, and I'll be writing a piece of
curdent or whatever and trying to solve an issue and
(16:20):
you just have no chance because you're that you've looked
at it that many times, and you're that you're that
invested in it. You just need to step back and
let I don't know, be distracted for a little bit.
I've heard people like get in the shower and something
will pop up in their head or they'll be walking
(16:41):
and the solution it's just obvious to them, and then
you can go back and finish the song, or you
can finish whatever you're doing, whatever project is.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
It's almost like I put a bit too much pressure
on myself in terms of lyrics. I think, so, yeah, yeah,
it's like I don't know, I'll put pen to paper
and at the time it's obviously good enough to write down.
Upon reflection, I might what was that?
Speaker 1 (17:03):
And I think that's the part you've probably got to overcome,
isn't it. Like I'm sure there's like you have notebooks
or whatever and it's full of great songs, or even
if out of four pages you might have one line,
what's like, yeah, that's real good. They take that and
start a different song, and that could that kind of
(17:24):
force something to happen, you know, like it force a
different angle and inspire in a different way type thing.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I've definitely done that. I've I sometimes look back.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
At old notebooks like years ago, I'm like, oh, that's
actually really good, and I don't know. I never throw
throw it away, never scrap it or anything, because I
think if I've written it in January and I'll come
back to it in April and I'm like, not very good,
that's just at that moment, you might they're waiting for
(17:55):
that song type thing. It might take a whole year
or two or three, and then those lyrics will fit
into a song and your head is in a different space,
so you can kind of look at it in a
retrospective way and form a song from it.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
I heard Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins say something similar recently,
saying that some of Smashing Pumpkins's best work at the
time of conception, he didn't like it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
He says, like, you never dislike a song, it's just
you're not ready for it at that time.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I think that's really interesting.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
And the songs where you think they're great at first,
then you can come back to him after maybe playing
them live a couple of times.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
I don't really like that anymore, but people like it.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
So you know, if if you want to please the
crowd and someone likes a certain song, it's or if
the musicians and your band late to play a certain song.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You'll play it.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Like there's like one song and it's a good song,
like of mine, but in my opinions, decent. But everyone
in the band really enjoy playing it. We've got some
really nice parts in it, and they think that I
sing it really well and whatever. But I just don't
really enjoy singing that song anymore. But I still do
(19:12):
it because it's all about you know, because the band
is under my name as well. I don't want it
to just be all about me. I like my friends
who are the musicians in my band to also enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
You know. I appreciate all.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Of them being there playing or doing whatever they're doing,
but it's not all about me.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
I do try to make that clear.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah. So in terms of the band, how's them been
going gig in? Yeah, getting plenty plenty of gigs.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Yeah, I always get gigs and stuff. It's mainly in
Hull to be honest, and I would like to start
branching out, but at the moment we've got a couple
of band changes in terms of members and stuff, and
it's just people being overwhelmed in in other things aside
from music. You know, one of my good friends, a
(20:06):
mutual friend of ours, Rivers, but he's been going through
some things and you know, I love him to a bits,
the great guy and you know, amazing musician. He does
his his solo stuff and he plays mandolin for me usually,
but because he's been going through a lot of stuff
(20:27):
in his day to day life, it's kind of stepped down.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
He said to me, like how in the future, Like,
once I've sorted myself out, then if there's a place
for me, then I'll come back and play. It's like,
of course there is your You're a friend first, and
I appreciate everything you've done. We've played loads of gigs together.
We traveled to Bradford, We've done the Street Sesshon, We've
done Spring Springboard like what you're talking about as well,
(20:54):
and all sorts. And it's nice because I like, I
don't know that people are friends in my band, and
that's important for me.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Some people just meet.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Up and practice and play a gig and that's it.
I like to hang out after, you know, after gigs
or like outside of music as well.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, I see being in being in in a group.
It's like being in a relationship and and you spend
a lot of time with him and you've really got
to be able to tolerate each other avenue.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
I think the social element of it is just as
important as the musical element of it sometimes, isn't it,
Because if you're half as in, either of them has
a detrimental effect on you.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
If it's boring or if it's.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
A pick or something, it's yeah, it's it's a it's
a weird thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
A band?
Speaker 1 (21:43):
And it's people have lives, And I think that's what
people forget when when they're in a band, and I
try my best to remember that as much as possible.
It's not all about me and my project and blah
blah blah. These are people and they're good friends and stuff.
You know, you kind of you have to adjust. So yeah,
(22:05):
like I said, there's there's a couple of people stepping
down from the roles within the band, and at the
moment we're just bringing a drummer in and a new
bassist and stuff like that, and I want to build
that really strong foundation again and then we can go
from there. It's come out a really good time actually,
(22:28):
because my music, the direction in my head has changed
slightly in terms of sound and stuff, so kind of
writing some new songs, bringing the banjo in properly live
and stuff, and the chre of it's still there. Were
still singing the same songs, bringing a couple of new
ones in, slowly building that foundation again. And then when
(22:52):
when and if Rivers wants to join again, they can,
and you know, everybody else as well or not, maybe
some new people who want to join.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Who knows what the future holds. But all you can
do is just try it right.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
With your genre as well. It's it's not uncommon for
things to be added than things to be removed, definitely,
you know, in what I do, if we lost a
guitar arrest and was like, I'll just gig without it,
it'll be fine, it would you would notice you Whereas
it's a bit more you can add things and take
things away with your stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah, And because because it is like my project,
I've written the songs and I'm playing guitar and I'm singing.
I'm like the frontman type personal bit right, I am
the the guy. I can play the solos. I can
play any kind of combination, so I can play solo players,
as a duo, trio, full band. It really depends on
(23:48):
what's going on, what type of gig it is. Like
next week we're playing in a church.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
In Beverly.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
That's going to be like a really nice venue and
it's going to be back again. We don't really have
much option at the moment because obviously the drummers learning
the songs basis is learning the songs and stuff. It's
annoying because i'd love to play. I have a double
bass at home and I'm learning that and i'd love
to play that. I can't really play it live because
(24:18):
I don't think I could sing with it really, Yeah,
but I can always teach people things that I know,
and I'm always up for helping and because I learn
every days a learning experience in it, whether you're doing
music or not. And I'm not the best musician ever,
I would never claim that in my life, but I
(24:40):
like to even go to like folk circles and jam
sessions and stuff where you can learn so much from
other people. Yeah, and it's important because you're supporting people,
you're making friends, and in terms of business and stuff,
you're making new connections and stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think jamming is really important for your own for
your own development as well. Like I've never unlocked new
techniques or anything like that when I'm rehearsing with my band.
It's always when I'm jamming with friends. That's when yeah,
used to lock new parts of the threat board. Do
you know when my hands are moving now exciting ways
and there's no there's no pressure to not develop that
(25:21):
whilest have been that setting. So I think jamming is
just as important, isn't it, And not just in that
band setting either, just jamming with yourself.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
It is, yeah, because it even if it's like a
room full of thir two people. I go to one
at the sun In in Beverly on Saturday, usually bought
all seven and everyone's really nice. I've been taking the
double base there the last couple of Saturdays, and it's like,
although you can hear that, people come up to you like,
(25:52):
oh yeah, it really kind of lifts it. I'm there
to practice my instrument, whereas I can only stick some
music on and play along with it. But like, and
I don't know, live music is totally different. Unexpected things
can happen. You kind of have to follow that, and
you just become better at the instrument, don't Your intuition
(26:15):
improves as well, Yeah, because every musician is different. Some
are better than others, some most of them are probably
better than me. But yeah, it's you know, it's just
you're getting out there and you're playing. That's the main
thing for me.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, it's the main thing for me. It takes precedents
of everything else. I love the process as well, though.
I love, you know, someone coming with just a nugget
of something and then watching that flourish and developing recorded
song with the music video, and you know, there's something
about that entire process, and I don't even necessarily know
what it is. I guess it's element to each part
(26:51):
of it. But there's just something beautiful about creating something
from nothing and putting out and even better if you
get some positive feedback about it.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Isn't It always lifts your spirits, doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
So what's on the horizon? Few in terms of releases
and upcoming projects, have anything planned? Obviously you're having a
bit of a change around in terms of members, but
is there anything in the schedule to get some more
recording on.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
We've got loads of recordings, to be honest, I did
about what was it between twelve and sixteen songs.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I can't remember the exact number.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
We've got some studio versions of some of my songs
and also some live acoustic versions as well. I've got
my next one coming out on Friday called never Again,
and that was a live take, not the first take,
but I mean it was like I think we did
(27:42):
like thirty or something and I think it was number
eighteen greatly, And that's just me singing and guitars, a
girl that used.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
To sing in the band.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
She's singing harmonies, beautiful voice, like beautiful harmonies, and then
the fiddle as well, Like towards the end of the song,
I just started to throw something slightly different out. But yeah,
there's I'm basically going through with the producer at the moment,
who's just kind of still mixing some things and editing
(28:18):
a little bit and whatever, and I'm just gonna try
and put those out. But like I say, my sounds changed,
so I kind of just want them out now. Yeah
they're still still fine, but I just want them out
so I can start on my new my new things
and my new sound. Like Yeah, it's nothing like drastic change,
like I'm not going too heavy metal or anything, but
(28:39):
it's like, ah, it's I I appreciate heavy metal and
the musicians that play it, but it's just not really
not my thing completely get it. I couldn't sit and
listen to it. My head's all over the place and
I have d HD and stuff and it's like and
like I have to have calm music.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
I went to see stef Jill Simpson a couple of
weeks ago in Manchester and he had a really nice
blues grass album came out and I mean it's it's
quite a lot of years old now but amazing like instrumentation.
He did like blues grass versions of his heavier songs,
(29:19):
but there was and they did those songs, but it
was a very heavy concept and I enjoyed it, but
it was like too heavy for me and it went
more into like the rock, which is fine because I
do I do like it, but I guess you go
through phases of what you listen to. I'm currently listening
to like or Hammer Banja, and like it's really stripped
(29:42):
back and raw, and you know, really nice songs, really
nice lyrics and stuff, which even heavy metal songs can
have nice lyrics, can't even screamer and stuff. It's you know,
the lyrics are raw, like they go straight to your
heart or or whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
But just everyone's into something like different art they I.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Mean, it's a bit of everything made. But it's a
very limp biscuit intensive week for me because I just
saw him on Thursday in Birmingham, so I've not listened
to him in years. And then the announcer saw me
and the missus got tickets and I'm so glad i
went to see him. Yeah, it was like it's like
ninety ninety nine all over again. I was three then,
so yeah, yeah, I mean I was only a bit older.
But but so you're playing sober sessions tonight, So what
(30:28):
can people expect from your set tonight?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Well I don't drink, so so just just touching on that.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Why don't you drink? Is that through choice?
Speaker 1 (30:38):
So just a yeah, I've never I've never been in thankful,
I've never been in a state of addiction or anything
like that. Doesn't smoke and never never smoke, never touch drugs,
never drank. Well, drank when I was younger, but just
out of choice. I just just don't need it. Yeah,
I can kind of now I've accepted myself more and
(31:03):
I don't have to kind of put any fronts on
or anything, because growing up as a teenager and stuff,
you kind of you always want to fit in, don't you,
And you always like you want to be the joker
or the the laugh of the classroom or the party
or wherever you are, and like, I.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Don't know, I can do that. I can do that
without the alcohol. I guess.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
I love just being daft basically, like I don't go
there without laughing. And I appreciate people who have had
addictions and stuff. And it's a very strong thing to
come out of, isn't it. Like it's a difficult thing
to stop. But yeah, for me personally, I'm lucky enough
to have not had that addiction. But I'm always there
(31:50):
to help people as well if they have. I've had
plenty of friends who have come to me and be like,
how do you actually do it? Like we've been on
nights out and I'm the drinking soft drinks water or whatever,
and it's like, how on earth do you go on
a night out and drink water?
Speaker 3 (32:05):
That's a sad reality, really, isn't it. Some people when
they're looking at someone who's not drinking and thinking, fuck,
how do they do that?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Yeah, because you can see that they want to do
that and like curious about it and stuff. And I
think more and more people are actually stopping drinking or
stopping the amount that they're drinking.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
It's on the decline, isn't it. It really is people's
attitude towards it. No doubt the cost of living is
having an effect. Yeah, you know, people can't afford to
drink anymore. Yeah, and I think I think I don't
know whether it's because I'm getting older and a lot
of my friends who may be kind of becoming of
the same opinion, Like, yeah, I like, you know, I'm
(32:44):
not in recovery from alcohol or anything like, but I
barely drink at all because I just I don't like it,
do you know what I mean? Yeah, there's some situations
where it plays a part for me, but it's very
few and far between. Drinking to get drunk is just
I couldn't think about drinking to get drunk anymore.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
I like to be in control as well. I like
to you know, if you're out in the city you've
never been or something, and you're so drunk you don't
even know what's going on, and you're trying to walk
back to a hotel or go to the train station
or something, you just never know what. I like to
have my wits about me and I'm observing. I'm always
like looking around the room and or the street or something.
(33:21):
I'm always aware, and I think I know that being drunk,
I don't know. Everything goes out the window, doesn't it.
You can take a situation completely in a different way
than you would.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
If you were sober.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Where someone's speaking or something, or someone's intentions or whatever
as well. Yeah, I've not I don't know. I can't
remember the last time. It's not like I'm alcohol free
like I think. At Christmas I had I shared a
very small amount of mouled wine with them a girl
(34:02):
I was seeing at the time because we were out
at a Christmas market and she wanted to try it,
and I was like, yeah, I'll try a little bit.
I probably had a couple of SIPs. It was a
small class and it's like, you know, I'm not sure
I'm in control of that situation. I've chosen to just
try it, and a sip isn't going to do anything
(34:23):
for me in a good way or a bad way.
I'm just going to get a bit of a taste
of something. That was the last time I had alcohol, But.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Before that it was like years.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, people left at me because I always got to
There's a bar in in Whole called the Brain Jar,
probably been or that one. They do food and cocktails
and stuff, like really nice cocktails, but they do mocktails
and stuff as well, so I've had those in the past.
And they do gigs, so I've played there, and you
(34:55):
get a couple of tokens or whatever and some money
for playing. I'll just spend like one of the tokens
on a pizza because the pizza, but then I'll get
a green tea or peppermint tea. People are like, you know,
they expect the musicians come in and just get absolutely wasted,
whether it's on on booze or drugs or something. I'm like,
(35:18):
or they'll even say you're coming out for a smoke
and we'll have a chat. It's like smoke. I'll come
out and chat, but I just don't do any of
that and I don't need it.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
It goes hand in hand though, with with creativity. I
guess you know a lot of creative people are wild people.
Goes hand in hand.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Yeah, there's so many famous musicians who had to be
on drugs or alcohol to write.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Even the reality is probably some of the best music
that just haven't been put out there as a result of.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Some sort of loucinogenic Yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Yeah, yeah, but there's I don't I don't think there's
any place for it. I mean, these events where doing
his proof that you don't need it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Of course, Yeah, you can have a good time without it. Yeah,
it's just trick in your body. Well, it's not even tricking.
It's because your body is tricked into thinking you need
that addictive thing.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
Like i'lcohol or drugs or whatever.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
You have to kind of align yourself again because kids,
for example, they have a weal of a time, don't they,
and that they don't touch any of it, like it's
all about I don't know. You get older and you
start having stresses, and you start thinking about what other
people think and if we call just kind of forget
(36:38):
that and just let loose a little bit and act
like kids again in the right situations, you know, have fun.
Without all of that playful it would be amazing.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Cool. So back to your music mate, is there any
sort of dream collaborations or anything like that? I mean,
I bet that is endless. But for most people, they
kind of have one two artists who did really, really
really want to lock in with, and then they're all,
to be honest, well, dead or alive. Then let's rephrase
that dead or alive. Who would be a dream collab.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Towns Bands and Blaze Bowley probably not heard of him now,
he was, to be honest, it's it's in touch with this.
Actually he was an alcoholic. He abused substances as well,
and he was very good friends with Towns Bands and
have you heard of him.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
I've heard the name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not listened now.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
So they were very kind of similar, like Towns was
on heroin and stuff like that, and I can't remember
if Blaze was, but he definitely took part in drugs
and stuff, but it was mainly alcohol for him. And
they became friends and they started writing stuff.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Separately.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
And they did a couple of collabs and stuff as well.
Like Live, it's it's that type of person because it's raw.
It's like again, it's it's from the heart. It's like live,
it's true, it's the truth. It's the experiences they've they've
come from. Like he was homeless type thing. He was
couch surfing and he lived in a treehouse with his
(38:22):
he got he got married and stuff to a Jewish girl.
And there's a there's a there's a film about it
called Blaze. Ethan Hawke produced it and stuff and that's great.
But yeah, I'm off topic now Blaze and Towns and
there's a I don't know, really, I'm trying to think
(38:43):
of people that would kind of fit with my thing,
because they're very much songwriters, so they would, but people
who were alive. Charlie Crockett is a very big influence
of mine. I absolutely love his music. But he's like big,
you know, he's got a band and is real lively
on stage, and he came from playing on street corners
(39:05):
and learning from homeless people losing stuff, and then he's
like skyrocketed over the last couple of years. He was
I would say the best gig I've ever been to.
I've seen him twice, like as an acoustic artist and
with his band. So Charlie Crockett would be great. I
chatted with him for a little bit actually when I
(39:27):
went to see him. Real nice guy and whatever. But yeah,
I would say tho, I can't really think of anymore
and anyone really because it would just be about playing
music with him. I don't really care about becoming famous
or anything or never my my goal.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Like, it's all about the music.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
And I could learn something from them, and I'd love
to ask him questions and and see what they would,
you know, see if they liked my songs or anything
that they're writing.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
It's not an easy question to be asked. Say when
people say who are your influences? So, well, fucking who
isn't an influence? Do you know what I mean? I
take inspiration from anyone who plays a guitar. You know,
anyone can inspire me, like on that instrument, you know it.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
And everybody plays it so differently. So like I say,
you can lend anything from anybody, like if you're not
if you're not Travis Picken in the correct way, that
can that can cause a whole different direction of music.
It's like your own style, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
I don't like to categorize myself too much. I say,
country folk, but I just play and write whatever comes
from my heart.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Really. Yeah, it's a bit cliche, isn't it. But that's
just what I do.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
That's all it is really in it, Like, how else
can you describe it? At the end of the day,
when you playing original music, how else can you describe
it other than you're just playing something that's authentically you exactly.
And that's the bit I struggle with. I put something
down in the band seting. It's not an issue like
I said, it's when I'm on my own, when I'm
trying to write my own songs. It's just like it's
(41:06):
not like I haven't got the ability, it's just the
ability to overcome myself, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Like I say, it's one of the biggest things is that.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
Maybe I'm trying for no reason. Maybe I'll never need
to do it, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
But but again, I've.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Always wanted to do you know, Yeah, And I've always
been envious of other people have been able to do yeah,
And maybe that's The only reason I'm starting this podcast, mate,
is to try and effect.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
But I honestly believe that you can do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I think you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Should literally pull an old song out of a notebook
that you've had, or even go and write a new
one and just go to an open mic and just
play it. See what the see what the reaction is.
But even if it's even if you get some claps
and you're like, oh, I wanted that to be bigger,
play it again. I was so scared about play my
(42:00):
first song ever, like like people are gonna boom me
off stage, is gonna hate it, you know?
Speaker 2 (42:07):
But they didn't.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
They absolutely loved it and it even actually made someone cry.
And I was like, with the Held album, are that bad?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Really?
Speaker 3 (42:16):
That must have been pretty powerful?
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Yeah, And I do get that quite often now, especially
at the intimate gigs, because people are there to listen
to the songs themselves. And I prefer like the Yeah,
I actually prefer the more intimate gigs now, other like
a big, big festival gig or something.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah. And I think it's.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Because, like I said, people are there to listen festival
gigs if you're playing loud and whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
I don't really. I don't know. Some people don't really
care what's being played.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
A bit more of a disconnecting there.
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
The smaller the venue, the smaller the set in the Yeah,
it becomes, doesn't it something when when you go to
a biger venue and you definitely lose something.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I don't know starting all other places. When I saw
Charlie Crockett with his band versus the acoustic like step,
it was totally different feels. I was at the front
for both of them, like this distance away from him
both times, and it was absolutely amazing like both of them,
(43:24):
but you definitely hitting the heart more.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Like with the acoustic one.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Yeah, And I like it when big bands like that,
they'll step it down a little bit halfway through the
set and they'll maybe do a couple of songs just acoustic,
bring the lights down there and bring that intimate feel
back into the room. And I guess I tried to
do that as well.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I'll always try and get everyone to step back and
then I'll just play a song on my own or something.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Try and make the set a bit more dynamic piece.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, it was a bit of variation in the variation's
my key, like my my favorite word. Like, I'm always
trying to make it more of a show and a
bit more of an experience than just oh, there's a
guy with the guitar playing eight songs or something.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
That's exactly it. It sticks out like a sore form.
The difference between someone performing songs or someone performing a
set n't exactly stark difference. That's why we're trying, really
trying to hone in on the minute. And it's what
do we do in them gaps where we're not playing anything? Yeah,
you know what I mean. That's where we're really trying
to hone in.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah, we did it space exactly, and we did that recently.
And I was like, because there's like a song, I
use a partial Kappa so I can imitate drop D
and I still do like the G chord and then
go down to the D and like, because the intonations
slightly off because you've got that cap on second threat
(44:47):
you have to tune.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
It's slightly different.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
Might be something my guitar, to be honest, but it's
if you're using a Kappa, it's always going to cause
that isn't it.
Speaker 3 (44:57):
But yeah, yeah, especially when you've got a fixed brit
it's an acoustic yeah exactly. You can't fuck me intonation
like you can on any.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
Trek, yeah exactly. So with that, like.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I always double check my tune in after that song
when I'm playing back in standard just normal capo or something,
and I always i'd give the nod to Rivers and
I'd be like, you know, C, C, D and G,
and then everyone would just play that on loop whilst
I was just quickly tuning, and then I'd be like,
(45:29):
this is called trust in Me.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
That's the next one.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
That's usually the next one would play after that. Actually
it's just trusting me, and we'll go straight into the
GH and carry on from there. And it's like you said,
it's that dead space where things can you know, the
audience are kind of looking around, what's happening.
Speaker 3 (45:49):
You want to grab the attention straight away and then
retain that, yeah through to the very end, isn't it.
And some times them lures in between songs, it's kind of.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, you might lose the vibe or like, you know,
you just want to keep that momentum going. Bruce Springsteen
did that really well. I saw him in Germany last
year or the year before and he did three hours
straight and no interval or anything. I was like crazy,
it was like one song into the other to be
(46:19):
fair stage or Simpson did that.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
As well in Manchester.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
He I was surprised at the amount. He didn't speak, actually,
he hardly said anything. He just went in and played
all the songs. And I think you've got to get
that balance.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Right, really.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
I personally hate talking down the microphone and I'm yapping
away here, but when I'm on stage, I can't stand
anything more than people who were I don't know, they're
talking for five minutes about a two minute song, you
know about what it is, say a couple of sentences
about it. I want to be able to feel the
(46:56):
song rather than no exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
Not be giving someone else as interpretation of them.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Yeah, yeah, because I don't know.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
You can write a song and if I play a
song to you, I'm feeling the same way, but it
might resonate with you in a different way. You might
take a line differently to how I intended it. And
if that works for you, great, you know that's what
I think. But yeah, if people are talking too long, really,
(47:24):
to be honest, a bit of a fat peeve for me, really,
but it you know, like like I said before, it
is so important and you can notice it.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You can really notice it when you see someone perform
their set. Yeah, it's a difference between a well established
act and not being really in a Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Anyway, Yeah, you've got a bit tight as a band.
Speaker 1 (47:42):
It's easier when there's when there's a band, to be honest,
when you're an acoustic artist, it's a little bit harder.
You just have to kind of force yourself to talk
and interact a little bit.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Some people just do it naturally down there. Yeah, I'm
not being able the gift to the gap.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
I'm not really well.
Speaker 3 (47:59):
Like I said, it's keeping on point in it. And
like I said, no one wants to hear some five
minute rhetoric about a song that last two minutes to.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
Exactly I want.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
I hate it, but I'm really looking forward to listening
to your set tonight. Mate.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Interested to I'm trying to think. I don't think i've
ever seen someone play lap steel, intimately.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
Steel, so it's like the next level. Yeah, so he'll steel.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
You'll you'll hear it on a lot of country stuff,
especially from the seventies. It was on like every record
you get every now and then we're just chatting about
that earlier. Like in modern country, you do get it.
You hear it like as a bit of a swell
in the background. You'll understand when some players later if
you haven't heard it before.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
I've heard it before. I've just not said I've been
in the presence of somebody playing it.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah, it's one of my favorite instruments.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
What a unique instrument there. It's very hard to few
and far between as well, it's not offing you see them.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
Yeah, I was very lucky because.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
There's two that I know about in the whole area,
like two people that can play. Sam being one of them,
and he Sam's played every gig that I've asked him
to play, and and it was an excuse to play
Pedal Steel live. And it's come on so much as
well in that time. But then there's a guy called
Dave Holly and he's played all over the world, played
(49:22):
Nashville and he went they went to Scandinavia. We had
to keep it Cash the tribute band. It was quite
that they've played all of the world doing Johnny Cash songs.
He played Pedal steel in there for a bit as
well as electric guitar.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
But yeah, so I got hold.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Of Dave and he did pedal steel on on on
the tracks. And now I've met Sam as well. He
plays with me live and it's going to be recording
some for the tracks as well, just to like put in, Yes,
such a beautiful instrument, violin and pedal steel.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
You.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I've heard a lot of steel guitar in Hank Williams
songs if you've listened to him, and that was without
the pedals. That kind of added the pedals in later, Yeah,
but they just bend all the notes.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
And stuff basically.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Really if you like look underneath the pedal steel, like
the mechanical sound of it's crazy engineering.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Yeah, very beautiful instrument.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
Mhm. Yeah, I'm for saying about yeah, And I've really
enjoyed his conversation. I like to WND my podcast by
just asking who should I be listening to right now?
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Heyler Limp Biscuit.
Speaker 3 (50:38):
Really I've written Heiler down as well. How bad that?
Speaker 1 (50:44):
No, I would say listen to Blaze Foley because yeah,
because his songwriting is amazing.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
And Guy Clark as well, Guy Clark, Guy Clark, We're all.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
In the same kind of town, same area of Texas
and stuff like that. If you're a lover of songs
like songwriting, they're very poetic and stuff like that, along
with tones.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
But then I'll check them out. Thanks again, Tony Yep,
thank you very much, thanks for having me, And if
you like what you've heard it like and subscribe.
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.