Sobriety, Selfhood, and Starting Over: Henry Beercock’s Story

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome. Welcome Henry. Hello, nice nice of you
to come in and join us today in the engine room.
Today we've got Sam with us as well.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, good, thanks, thanks for having me. Really excited to
see what we go up with.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yeah, I'm excited too, mate. So you reached out after
you came across the Saber sessions, didn't you on on Facebook?
And you're doing your own bit of sober night out
over and while, aren't you?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah? So, I mean I saw what you were doing,
and to be honest, you know, only being just over
the bridge, I just I thought like, I'm a massive
fan of music, live music especially and to try and
sort of combine the two, if that be around sobriety
and gigs, and I've been to gigs since being sober,
and I won't lie. You know, the more people are

(00:52):
queuing up at the bar not even watching the band,
all the focus on is the next pint, and you're
missing you know, you're missing your favorite And I've done
that for myself, and it'd be lovely to combine the
two and actually not focus on the booze and just
focus on the music, on the artist, if that be
someone local who's trying to sort of make it or whatever.
And so I really I just loved well the whole concept,

(01:17):
and you know, it's something I really generally wanted to
talk about and be a part of.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Really well, I'm biased, sport. I think it's working. Put
me wrong if it's not going to work.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
I've said this last time. I still think like a drinker, yeah,
and I kind of think, is that is that gonna work?
Even I've not drunk so long, Like I still it's working.
I came down the other day and it's it's good
because you can just it's clear off after a bit,
and you do, like you say, you can focus on
the music.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I think that's it. And you've got people who are
pouring the heart and soul into this music. Really and
I can't imagine if I was an artist and all
I could see was people queue up at the bar
when I was about to then they play my best
song or something, and no one was fully focusing. I
can imagine it can be quite disheartening, really well.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
You know, as a musician myself, and it's offering something
different for the artist, you know, because it is music
centric here, isn't it. So we are pushing the sober thing.
But it's not it's not really mentioned on the night.
It's just alcohol's not missed at all. You know, we're
not celebrating the alcohols not. It's just not missed. You know,
there's no place.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
A lot of it's just normalizing it, you know, it's
it should be a normal thing to do, just not
not drinking. Should be a normal thing to do.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, without having to label it, I guess because it's
a bit like I guess, I've got it in two ways.
And of course I'm going to bring it up because
well I'm a vegan in case I haven't mentioned it already,
but basically being a sober vegan, the mad thing is,
you've got it. You've got it both ways because you
you sort of it's you're mentioning like not I had

(02:55):
a point there. Sorry, I was going to go with it,
So carry on. Character.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Well, let's take it back to let's take it back
to the beginning. Henry, So, who are you, Where are
you from? Where did you grow up? Tell us a
bit about your about your childhood.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
So, well, my name's Henry. I'm from across the Bridge
in Hull, So I grew up basically in my foot.
I was working in my family's family business for in
a state agency for seventeen years and I sort of
fell into it. So I started there as a Saturday
assistant and then I basically didn't finish my sixth form,

(03:33):
and my dad, being the owner of the business, I
kind of it was like, well, I'm not giving you
a job straight away, So I ended up having to
do door knocking at charity work, whatever anything to just
sort of get the money in. And then a space
eventry opened up. So it was because I kind of
I wanted to ideally get into sort of drama school
or something like that was my passion, but the grades obviously

(03:55):
didn't go the way. So going into the family business
and see my dad do it, my older brothers do it,
I kind of felt like that was just the path
that I was meant to go on, so, you know,
and then fast forward seventeen years, I'd I just realized
it wasn't you know, We've got one life, you know
what I mean, and I've got myself into a bad

(04:16):
relationship with my food. I'd ballooned over. I was over
eighteen stone and that's when I built up the courage
to actually step on the scale. So god knows what
I was at my heaviest, and I was, you know,
living for the weekend, just boozing away, etc. So it's
I knew in order to make a difference to my life,
I had to leave. And I never quite knew what

(04:37):
the problem was. And I loved my time at the
job and working with my family. It did obviously come
with its perks. But knowing that, you know, I tried
all these faddy diets, I tried all these lifestyle changes
because I was never happy with my way. I was
never happy with my lifestyle and I couldn't quite figure
out what was the problem. And then I realized it
was my purpose. My purpose was not to be in

(04:58):
the family business. So having left there, cut the booze,
made better changes. Then that's obviously led me to this
sober life and now while getting onto coaching sobriety and
you know, trying to create community around sobriety as well.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
So it was there a specific moment, you know, when
you was at your peak of sort of food addiction
and alcohol addiction. Was there a specific moment that made
you think, look, I need to change something.

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Yeah, it was. Someone asked me this a few weeks agoing.
To be honest, I didn't really know the answer until
I had to really think about it. But basically what
happened was because I was so heavy around the around
the neck, because you know, I was carrying some much weight.
I used to snore a lot, and when you're drinking
as well, like dehydration when you're smoking, et cetera. So

(05:47):
it was causing problems between me and my wife. You know,
I was keeping her up, she was having to go sleeping.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
There.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
So basically that's that's it. I went for a test.
My dad has sleep happening here, and it was like,
go for a test. Go for a test. You know,
it's quite dangerous. So I was like all right, So
and because it was becoming quite urgent, I actually went private,
sat in front of this guy and thankfully he's really
frank with me, and he just said to me, he went,
you ain't got to sleep at mate, And I was like, right, well,

(06:15):
I was like, this is pretty quick. Do I get
my money back? But basically, you said you need to
lose weight, and he was like, you're not because he
did a test on me or whatever. You said, you're
not nasal. It's around your neck, and he was like,
you're carrying all this weight, and he explained it to me.
He just said, look, you need to lose weight around here.
I can tell you to wear a mouth guard. You
can go and buy this. You can go and do that.

(06:36):
You went, but lose the weight and trust me, you'll
see a difference. So anyway, as you can imagine, I
went and bought a mouth guard, hoping that I would
do the trick. I didn't act in it straight away,
just because it sounded too difficult. So again doing the
mouth guard, trying my best, buying you know, sprays or whatever.
I tried all the gimmicks, and then it realized I

(06:59):
just had to think myself, I'm running the risk of
my marriage falling apart here. I can't. I can't. My
wife she was it was going to the point where
she was so sleep deprived that it was sending her
a bit mad. And I didn't want to be the
problem in this relationship. So that you know, when I
actually boil it down to why I did it, that
was the why it was, you know, catallous save the marriage.

(07:22):
And we'd only been married for a few months by
this point, and I just I was so embarrassed to think, Okay,
well she's married into this and is this the way
she sees the rest of her life going as well?
So yeah, I would say that was the main reason.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
The same question this Sam. Was there a catalyst come
was there a specific moment or was it just you know,
did it come to a head.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
Well, I don't believe in rock bottombs because someone said
to me once rock Botomb is when you six wander
And you know, I had plenty of times where I
could have got off the merry go around put in
that way and moments of anguish, I'd say, where there's
a there's a gap where you're desperate, and I'd sort

(08:12):
of dust myself off, you know, I picked myself back
up again, get back on the saddle and go again.
So it was never I never really could make that choice.
When when I stopped was in Liverpool. This was in
regards to alcohol. Alcohol was the thing that I was
left with. And I've related to the food and everything

(08:33):
I still do, you know, I mean, I've got I'd
see it as an emptiness and I've feeled it with
something and I obsess and I'm all or nothing. I
find middle ground quite difficult, but the alcohol really did.
It really got me. And they say there's a saying
that recovery or religion is for people are afraid to

(08:53):
go to Hell, and recoveries for people that have been there.
And I can only explain about two weeks I was dying.
I was I was actually dying. I could feel myself dying,
and I tried to tried to drink. I'd gone to
the last stage of alcoholism, which was morbid alcoholism. So
I wanted to die, you know. So it was it

(09:15):
was touch and go, and then but I went. I
kind of saw my life flash in front of me.
I've got there's alcoholism in a family and well just
one of my uncles in particular, and I kind of
saw I felt like I'm going to cross the line

(09:35):
way before, but I would go into another level, and
I felt like I went to another level of madness.
And we called it the gift of desperation. In recovery's
called the gift of desperation because I can't explain what
it was, but I see it like a deep route
sort of survival. Thing went no, and I was isolated. I
was on my own, and then I reached out for

(09:57):
help and finally rendered and put my hands up and said,
you know, I need help. I need help. I can't
the way I'm doing it isn't working. Because even when
I was drinking myself to death leading up to that,
I still thought I was doing the right thing. Still
in my head thought I was doing the right thing. So, yeah,

(10:17):
it was some. There was a lot of stuff going on,
but like you said, you have to wave things up.
You know, my family were getting support for my drinking,
you know, they would getting they were accessing support, so
they knew that they had to leave me to it.
So then I on the scales, I was like, there's
my family there now. And apart from the fact that

(10:38):
I was losing my characters that I didn't people didn't.
I was unpredictable, you know, I was psychotic all those things,
and I just you sort of get to a point
where you just way up and you go is it
worth it? You know? I can remember my last terring.
I can remember me last drink, can you Actually? I
remember man mastering, and I can remember looking. I remember

(11:00):
having a drink there, and I had the glass. I've
been using the same glass over and over again, and
it was all started. It didn't very it wasn't very nice,
and it was just I remember someone saying that you
can't be an our cholic if youved drink harder, and
all them, all them sort of niffs your here. But
I'll just drink anything. I didn't matter what it was,
as long as I had that thing in it that

(11:23):
I wanted, and it was. I was just drinking lager,
I think, And I remember having that much left. It
was like a tiny little bit, and I remember having
the realization and going, it's it's this, and I'd lost
everything else. But I felt like i'd lost everything else
because think parts of me, my character, my personality, not

(11:43):
just you know, physical things, and the respect of my
family and my friends. I'd lost all that as well.
And just saw this and I thought, it's you. It's
that right, It's that And I drank it, and I
drank it and it was that much, and I was
back on aut a pilot again. I was back on
a pilot and I had another drink, and then once
I'd had that drink, I made a decision to stop,

(12:04):
and I reached out. My cousin was a recovery alchoholic.
He had been it had liver failure and stopped drinking
in seven years prior. I was in Liverpool because my
thing was always run away. I'd run away end up
in Liverpool. I mean that's a way. I just it
was avoidance, and he come and got me detox me.
I didn't even know what detox was. I knew that
I was still shaken after about a week.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
I think we all thought it was something celebrities did
or something didn't.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
We Yeah, I mean I was with well, I know
now that I was going through withdrawer every week. I
was going through withdraw all like because I never give
myself a chance to go through withdraw already. So but
that last point I did. Still for a long time,
my central nervous system was in a real bad way.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Would say, would you say, physically you've made a full recovery,
do you feel like you still damage?

Speaker 3 (12:56):
There's still damage damage from my stomach. I got some
nerve damage in my in my feet, which is like
a form of peripheral neuropathy. I no idea of my pancreas,
my problems with my pancreas. So I dubbled up in the
middle of the night like that really bad pain. It
was like someone's putting their fist inside you and squeezing,

(13:18):
And yeah, I've got ongoing problems with my stomach, and
I do think it's linked to the lifestyle and the drinking,
and but oh yeah, I mean so much better. When
I stopped drinking, I did get physically better, but then
other things. I stopped smoking and started telling eating food.
I've got a real problem with food. I'll still have.

(13:39):
That's my last demon.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
I would say. Most people I speak to about it,
they say they go from quitting the alcohol and then
it's the sugar cravings. And it's again, it's like one
vice for another vice, isn't it really, or at least
for some people anyway. Luckily for me, I guess having
quit the booze, I was on like a I went
on the strict diet and then my wife decided she

(14:00):
wanted to go vegan and joined us. So therefore, like
I was quite restrictive. So although I had those cravings,
although being vegan as well, vegan chocolates a bit enough,
so you know what I mean, it kind of took
the want away from it. And so I had that
sort of goal and then luckily carried on. But so
I'm a bit worried, like, Okay, well, what what's the next?

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, do you believe you've got it's I've heard it's
called once a fear of emptyinges, which is quite a
go a good way of explaining it. And you will
feel that void that emptiness was something. But that doesn't
have to be substances. It doesn't have to be food.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
It can be got to be something more meaningful.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Hasn't creativity. It can be connection. And one of the
things is really important me to is connection with other
people that have been through similar things like that. That
really is massively important to me and my and my life.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
Now, well, look what you're creating, you know what I mean.
It's it's it's clear that that's very important to you.
And fair play for you know.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
This is all just distractions to stop me going back
to our behavior. Really Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do believe that.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
I believe it's just got out of undone. It it's
got out of control.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
I don't do things like I said, I don't do
middle ground. I have to the obsession doesn't go away,
you know, like you just got a channel it in
the right way. And and after all these years of recovery.
I'm still flawed, i still make mistakes. I'm still there's
things that I thought i'd get better at and I
still haven't. But I do know it's very simple, all

(15:36):
the things that I learned. That's why I've been speaking
to people that have that have just come into it,
and because they say things and I think, oh yeah,
and it reminds me of where I was at, and
I know now I went I've gone round in a
circle because after a while I thought, oh yeah, I know,
I'd read all the books and all that, and then

(15:56):
I've realized I knew nothing. And I always have to
say it's a lot when I'm the most confident, not confident,
but it's only going to get a bit cocky and
I've got to spring in me step. That's where I'm vulnerable.
So I have to ground myself all the time and
not get carried away. But I realized that going after
all these years, that all the simple stuff I learned

(16:18):
at the beginning was all I ever needed to know.
That's all I needed to complicated.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think that's I mean, that's one thing when it
comes to my coach, and I'm again, I'm very at
the early stages of it, and it's just something like
having gone down the road of okay, that's a family
business too, then leaving that and then taking some time
out to sort of, I guess, work on myself, which
I'm very glad I did. Now I thought, okay, well,
I want to give back. But then at the same time,

(16:44):
you know, you need to make a living. So it
was like, how can I do what I'm passionate about
but also make money? But one thing I don't want
to do is overcomplicated because I just think of someone
like me, what would I want to hear and how
would I want it to digest it? And if someone
was me, all these stats, these figures, et cetera like
too much. Just simplify it for me, make it, make

(17:05):
it attainable, make it achievable, I guess, And I think
that's why, hopefully if someone can see the kind of
the route that I've gone down and gone, okay, well,
you know, just a standard bloke who didn't necessarily I
would never say I had a problem as such. It's
defining that problem, you know. Yes, Okay, I was a
binge drinker on the weekend. I didn't drink during the

(17:26):
week but I would live for the weekend, and that
would then go into the following week and so on
in just playing catch up. So it's really a lot
of people don't see that as a problem though.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
They just see that it is a problem in it
because you're never at a baseline. You're constantly withdrawing or
off your face, sire. When you're doing it every weekend,
you perpetuate that and it takes its tall on your
body and your mental health, definitely.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
But I argue everyone I remember saying, like for me,
it's like people go, we why don't you just have one?
Don't nail? But that's the sort of thing cliches that
you know, you might eat. I think you you old
yourself if people don't talk to me like that anymore.
And I just sort of I don't say, you know,
like whyn't you drinking or anything like that, And I say, well,
because you know, film did ask me why I don't drink,

(18:12):
I'd say, well, because it makes me feel It affects
me mentally and physically, it makes me sick. That's all
I really need to say is.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
I saw I saw a clip of David Bowie saying
the same. It was a start you just have one,
And he said, what one drink for me would be
a kiss of death. It was like.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
One I've heard it compared to peanut allergy. If you
had a peanut allergy, you wouldn't just have one peanut.
But I go just far further than that. I say
everyone's allergic to alcohol because there's a reaction, you know. Yeah,
And that's so everyone has some sort of level of
agy of energy you linked with alcohol. It's just that.

(18:52):
And like you're saying, there, if I could, I've got
another drink in me. I probably would have been able
to have another drink. But I couldn't do this again.
I couldn't do the sober part again. I don't think
I could do it all again. And if I drank,
I wouldn't. I could destroy all this. I would destroy

(19:12):
it all. I would self sabotage and I would destroy everything.
I've said this. Just put me in a room with
bottomed vodka and a mobile phone, and I'll bring everything
down that I've built up. And for what Yeah, for
what I mean? I said, Oh, I like freedom, That's
what I like. And I went straight back to work

(19:33):
when I stopped drinking, and I realized the same thing,
like what I'm doing this for, there's no purpose involved
that My purpose is making other people money. It won't
do anything for me.

Speaker 2 (19:44):
I guess it's that clarity though, isn't it? You know,
because your judgment's no longer clouded, so it's you see
clearer and you think, Okay, well, I'm doing all this
good stuff for me and my body, so you know,
I'm working myself physically, and obviously now it's time to
work myself mentally, and what do I actually want it?

Speaker 1 (20:03):
You've hit a baseline and then you the organic thoughts
out there. They're not influenced by what you've been doing
to yourself. It's it's an organic thought and organic emotion.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
I was going to say, is it's the belief I believe,
you know, like and making the choice such a massive choice,
because whether you've got a problem or not, I mean,
I don't if it's costing you more than money, I see,
it might be a problem, you know. So but if
you choose something like that, that stopping drinking, and because
it's such a social thing, it's such a huge change
like nothing else. So it's not stopping smoking. It's like

(20:35):
you've got to change pretty much everything, and so just
that alone that gives you the power of choice. So
then you you think, well I can do that.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
What else can I do against the gram with a
lot of stuff. So it's like, you know, you're not
just conforming to what everyone else expects you to do.
So it's a bit like, well if I can go
against that, I can do that. And it's just yeah,
give yourself self believe because I guess really, you know,
it's it's a big sacrifice. Although to a lot of
people socially it seems like a sacrifice. But if you're sober,

(21:07):
you're not sacrificing anything. You're actually gaining so much more.
But whoever isn't sober doesn't see it that way.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
They think, yeah, they had long term gains, haven't they.
They like things that are not when you're in it.
It's when I was in it, the gains are very quick,
whereas in sobriety it's things like that, you know, I
like today, I've spent all day with my son, you know,
all day I've gone and taken him shopping, brought him
a load of clothes. That just spent all day with him,

(21:35):
And that's the gift, Like, that's the they're the things
that I would lose if I chose a drink. So yeah,
there is a sacrifice with everything that we do. Like
in every choice that you make, you can't have both,
like you, you can't have the clear head and the
level of clarity and being able to put your mind
to things and also be at it as well. So

(21:56):
you've got to make a choice, right, So well, I
did to make a choice. I know that if I
looked at people that were that had what I called
sobriety or serenity, and I thought, they've got their life
right in order, and that don't seem to be worried
about what anyone thinks about I'm already and so and
I thought, I want that. That's what I want. I
want that. There's nothing in that for me anymore. And

(22:20):
you don't. I didn't go back to what I was
like when I was eighteen. I thought were first, that's
what had happened. I'll go back to what I was
like when I was eighteen. You know, Jack the lad
and all that, and you know, you create a new life.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
I think it's it's being happy at that sort of
level state. You know, you're not necessarily hitting the highs
and you know that you would expect to but it's
just you're just kind of they're not coasting, but it's
just a nice level. And I think most people ask me,
what do you miss? And I would say, honestly, it's
like the stupidity.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
In the way chaos.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Yeah, is that you miss you do? I say, you
missed that? But at what cost is that to come with?
I'm not willing to have a bit of that for
the price that you pay for it. So I'd rather
do without.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Yeah, I missed the chaos. I miss the way I
thought I missed the chaos. I tricked my mind into
thinking I missed the chaos. Not so much now, but
that's one of the things, but in early days. But
the the thing is and is I never regret I
have no I don't ever regret not drinking. I never
wake up in the morning and think I wish I'd

(23:27):
had a drink last night. It would have made everything
so much better. Whereas when I was drinking, I had
so many regrets. So I was living in guilt and
shame every day and it was awful. And so although
there is a sacrifice and there is a romance around drinking,
which I still have. It's very flee and it comes
in and goes out very miniskill, and it's now there's

(23:52):
no sacrifice. It's the obvious choice to me. Yeah, yeah,
I don't. I don't. Early days, I was like, never
gonna have a drink again, like I can't deal with that.
I can't deal with that fault, Like it's just I
couldn't comprehend it. Whereas now I'm like, yeah, of course
I don't want to drink again. I mean I don't.
I don't tell anyone that I'm not going to drink
again because I don't have to. But for me to drink,
he's like signing me deaf, for there's nothing in it

(24:14):
for me anymore. And people go with, are you sure,
like because you know they're obviously they're in it, And
that's fine. I don't care if drinks or not. I
don't bother me. But I've seen another life without it,
and it's too much in my life now that is
important to me, and the value that I never had.
I never had that when I was in it.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
I get Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
So, how long from getting sober did you decide to
start sharing your sobriety journey or was that something you
did from the arf?

Speaker 2 (24:45):
No, so I didn't. I never really had social media
or anything. So I guess anyone who knew me to
see let's say they haven't seen me since I left
work whatever. Then all of a sudden, here I am
on Instagram sharing my story in thinking what that's going
on here?

Speaker 1 (25:02):
So you look, you look completely different to what you did. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
It's you know, because I am short as well. To
lose seven stone off of a short ass like me,
it is, it is a big difference. But I think
it's not so much weight as well. I just think
it's I mean, I'm sure you will have felt it
or seen it as well. Just just your skin, just
your aura, just your glow, just everything. I just feel better.

(25:31):
And so I would say to answer your question probably
about just just so just maybe under a year when
I started sharing my spride store and I didn't, I
didn't really intend to. Basically I announced, like on LinkedIn.
It was because that's kind of like what the world.
I was used to, the corporate sort of side, and

(25:52):
I kind of that's kind of what led me back
into Okay, I'm working against because I started getting into
property investment and stuff because it's all I knew. So
I thought I could do it more of a leisurely way.
So I announced that I was back. In a way,
I'm like, all right, i've been gone, I'm back. You know,
this is what I'm doing, just in case people have
sat at home really wondering what.

Speaker 1 (26:12):
I was doing.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
But anyway, so I sort of announced what I've done
and this is why I've left, you know, kind of
left work, and this is what I've been busy doing.
And loads of people sort of got in touch with
me and said, oh, by the way, you know, I
don't know. I think they just wanted a guidance. They'd
seen what I'd done with my sobriety, with my weight loss,
and they were just asking me questions, and I think
they were just, yeah, they were curious, and maybe they

(26:36):
were thinking, okay, well if you can do it, because
I knew, you know, I knew what you were like,
and maybe I can potentially do it. So more and
more people get in touch, so I thought, oh, this
feels good. Look I like helping people. So then I
would share another nugget of information or share another video
on this, and it just kept sort of building traction
in a way. And I'm not saying I'm an influencer
or anything like that. It's more it's open up opportunities

(27:00):
where now when it comes to sobriety and like whole
or I mean, it's given me an opportunity to be
in front of you today people are sort of beginning
to think, okay, sobriety, hull Henry. You know, it's that
kind of connection now. And so yeah, I would say
less than a year started posting it, getting really good feedback,
and it just made me feel good. You know, I

(27:21):
really liked helping people. And you know, I'm not a
particular expert in it, and I've got a lot to learn,
but it's just simplifying it and just saying, look, this
is how good it makes me feel. I'm not here
to judge anyone who else who drinks, that's up to them.
But if you want to come on to the other
the fun island without the booze, then come and join
me and I'll show you the way.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
It's good message, good message. So obviously that's developed into alcohol. Yes, cool,
isn't it? So how did that come about? What the
idea to do that?

Speaker 2 (27:53):
It was Basically, it was after a failed attempt of
running an event we I was planning on doing along
with someone else who works in the sort of holistic
sort of world. They'd come over from Canada and I
knew him briefly through coaching, etc. And he was like, oh,
I want to sort of collaborate with you on running

(28:15):
some sober events or something. I was like, oh great.
But the difference, unfortunately, was in Hull, not many people
are willing to part with a lot of money. So
when you're expecting them to walk through the door, I
admit they want to be sober, admit they've got a problem,
and they want to listen to me do a talk
on sobriety and pay fifteen pounds for the privilege, especially

(28:38):
in January. It was just a lot to ask. So
it didn't It didn't materialize. I didn't sell any tickets
and it was a bit of a humbling experience for me,
but I learned from it. I was like, Okay, well
that didn't work, So what do I do from here?
So what I wanted to do was showcase local places
that offered during dry January alcohol free options. So I

(29:00):
would go and you know, do a little short video
on you know, you don't have to drink to have
a good time. You can still help these independent venues
during January because again a lot of people don't tend
to go out because they're recovering from Christmas, or again
it's dry jan so they'd rather just not go out
at all. So I was going there showcasing that, and

(29:20):
again that built up traction. So then I thought, okay, Well,
then more and more people were sort of saying, oh,
wouldn't it be great if we could have a like
a sober social and or maybe we can go to
these places you visited, so and I came up with
the name alcohol just I don't know, it was just
an idea and there so I thought, okay, well I
can do alcohol sober socials. And I chose one of

(29:41):
the places I've visited and that went well. We probably
got I don't know, twelve thirteen people turn up for
my first event. I was pretty tough with that. And
so we created like a WhatsApp group and now people
like share different things, just keeping everyone in check. Really,
because some of those people were sober curious. They weren't
necessarily sober, but someone was someone sober for seven years,

(30:03):
and they said it's the first sober social they've been
to or at least had the courage to come to.
So that for me made me feel really good because
I'm a bit of a newbie to the whole game really,
and so that was really nice. And because there wasn't
anything like that really in Hull, I noticed, you know,
for me personally, I didn't see anything, and so I

(30:23):
wanted to sort of build this community for people to
feel safe and kind of make sobriety cool, you know,
like you know, And so the next one I've got,
I've already booked. There's already thirty people booked on now
and still counting. So it's growing and growing to the
point where, you know, such collaborations maybe with yourselves, et cetera,

(30:43):
bringing it over the bridge. I don't know. So I
just think if we can keep doing this, spreading this
message and people hopefully have a good time, then it's okay.
Well I think it will just then highlight and then
the word mouth gets out and people say, well, actually
I went and I was sober social. I didn't even
need drink. You know, The thought of it so aliens people.
So then it's like okay, well, and then I hope
that eventually it comes to the point where we don't

(31:04):
need to call it sober social it's just like minded
people getting together that don't drink. But you don't need
to brand it sober, because again, that term for a
lot of people can be a bit scary because, like
going back to what you were saying, it's that whole
I'm never going to drink again because you've you've sort
of set you still out of sober. Whereas if you
just say, well, I'm not drinking today, I'm not drinking tomorrow.

(31:26):
Yeah exactly, just every day, you're just not drinking tomorrow,
and then you know, you go to sleep and it's
another day and so on. So I think it's it's
easy to put it under the sober umbrella, just because
it's easy to brand it that way. But if someone
turned up and said, oh, you know, I had a
few drinks the other night, but you know, I'm back
and whatever, that's great because they see it as a
problem and they want to make a change. But I'm

(31:47):
not there to sort of judge anyone if they were
to slip up and have a drink, because we've all
got our demons. We've all got our different coping mechanisms.
So yeah, it's just building that community. I guess that
community I didn't really ever see growing up, and that
guidance I guess I didn't have as well. So that's
what I'm trying to be, that sort of I guess,
spokesperson for someone just your average Joe who needs needs

(32:10):
a bit of help and guidance, really.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
For a bit of lived experience.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, broken like a window up, just showing what it
can be.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, definitely, I think that's it. It's just like I guess, again,
who knows what will what will come of it, But
it's really just showing you don't need booze to have
a good time, and if you do have it then
that's fine, but this isn't the social we're having.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Well, I think alcohol. What it does is that you're
in abitions go, don't they So when someone gets up
and starts dancing on a table, it isn't confident. It's
more your in ambitions are.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Gone, so I'll never see you dance.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Sam, I'm I could never never stop me dancing.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
That was.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, I was quite well known for.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Ridiculous what sort of dance break?

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Break dancing.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I was body popping, honestly.

Speaker 3 (33:02):
Probably probably on video somewhere.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Someone would show me, like, obviously they're show me a
video and go, this was you last night. I'm like,
don't ever show me that again.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
I'll tell you one thing right. One of the when
I stopped drinking, I thought I'm never going to dance again.
I mean I did. I actually thought out. And I
remember going to a wedding and I was up all
night dancing and I thought, I've made a broup. This
is another step forward. It's another step forward in my sobriety.
I can go out now and dance all night if

(33:36):
I want to, and I don't need to drink. And
it's like and it's it's about what I found. It's
about doing the things I used to drink for and
doing it sober head. It builds that confidence up. And
you know, they do things in where they There's one
thing I've just seen recently where every year they're sober
the guy one of they get one of the guys
and they get them sing a song in front of everyone,

(33:59):
and it just remove self because you know, making afford
to yourself in front of people.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Do you feel you careless about what people think.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
Oh massive, yeah, I think that's what sobriety is. Yeah,
I think that's what I think everybody. No one can
actually say they don't care about what anyone thinks, because
it's a you're on a journey to get better at it.
I mean, it's easy for me to go, oh yeah,
you know, I don't care what other people think of me.
I can legitimately say I definitely don't care what people

(34:27):
think of me as much as I used to, that's
for sure. But I think I'm still working towards I'm
always working, you know, going forwards and trying to get
better at it. I don't want to care what people
think of me. I think that that's what I was
attracted to in sobriety. I'd see people that have done all,

(34:48):
you know, that was the thing I was looking at
and going, they really don't care what people think. It's
because then the master removed. Because I believe that that's
what recovery is. I think it's recovering who you are,
your true self, your genuine self, underneath all the all
the noise, underneath all the things that you've put the
act that you put on. You know what who are

(35:11):
you underneath all that? And are you okay with that person?
And that's really it. I mean, I think that that's
the ongoing journey that everybody's probably on a little bit.
I just think that when I'm in because I'm in recovery,
it's constantly in the forefront of my mind, them things.
You know, I do have principles. I live by it,

(35:32):
and I know I'm flawed. I'm not perfect, but I'm working.
I work and I'm aware and I always it always
starts in the mirror for me. I mean, if I
do something nice hard, it's hard, and I've got a
lot of responsibilities and that's hard as well. But I
try to look well, I hope I do. I look

(35:54):
at myself first and I go, what's my part? What's
my part? Own it? And sometimes I'm right, like sometimes
I think I will I've come apart, and of there's
still problems. But resentment, I think is more damaging to
me than drink. You know, I have to be very
aware of the way I think and everything else. I

(36:17):
think anybody that's in recovery as such, I mean, I
don't want to keep saying to him because you don't.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Know, I think it's you know, the word in recovery.
It's not something that I've ever really sort of branded myself,
but technically I am. You know, at the end of
the day, it's you know, you are in your recovering
from you know, whatever relationship you had with our cult,
however big or small.

Speaker 3 (36:40):
I mean, yeah, I'll look at it both ways because
I don't want to put myself in like a you know,
like into a sort of labeled thing. And someone said
to me the other day, oh, you knew, you knew
how divergent. They spent like for two minutes with me, right,
and they went, well, I know you, And I thought, well, yeah,
of course I am. But I don't want to go
and get diallos of it, right. I want to keep

(37:00):
saying like, oh, yeah, I've got plenty core depression. Yeah
I've had a clinic core depression of an anxiety disorder.
But I don't want that doesn't define who I am,
and being the archonic it doesn't define who I am,
And being in recovery doesn't completely define who I am.
It's just a part who I am. But then then
I flipped from that to then go in recovery is

(37:20):
the most important thing in my life, and it is
my Sobriety is the most important thing in my life
because it is what holds everything together.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
And you weren't it And I think that. I think
that's nice. And the fact is you can speak about
it proudly as as you know, as can I. I
like one guy who said he was convinced to go sober.
We were just chatting. We walked past the pub and
we were just literally just chatting away. It was I
went to like a fitness boot camp when it was
it was one of the trainers and he just I

(37:48):
was like, have you ever been in a w and yeah,
when they do a real good carling. I was like,
that doesn't exist. But basically we were walking down the
road and then it was like, what about you? Then,
I don't drink, I'm sober. But he said what it was.
It was the way I said it and the way
I owned it, and I said it so proudly. He
was like, you know what, normally there's a stigma around

(38:09):
being sober. It was like, now you just said, yeah,
I'm sober, and you just said you have this big
smile in your face. It was like, I want that
out and being able to own it and be proud
of it and not have that stigma around it.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
I think that's right. I think how you carry yourself
is how you carry it. I mean, people do have issues.
As they start to get sober, you are judged in
some way a little bit, you know what I mean.
And I suppose in anything you know, you could be
you know, judged in a way because.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
What you said, Sam, you know you're putting yourself in
that bracket, are you? You're giving yourself a label, a
label that's got a lot of stigma attached to it.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Yeah. I mean I think it's still okay to go
look at this drugger and look at this okay. And
I think it's the last thing that political correctness hasn't
got old of. And I think but I also think
it's the ultimate health problem. And I do think that,
but for me, or the ultimate mental health problem, Yeah,
because because it's something you can do something about. And

(39:03):
most people that I know that are active in a
recovery or in a program as such, the under level
we'll got underlying issues, you know. But but what they're
doing is they're going, well, I need to remove that first,
and I might need to exercise, I might need to
lose weight. So what they're doing is they're putting in

(39:23):
the action, right, And that's what I'm thinking, rather than going, well, yeah,
I've got this, and then sitting around and expecting something
to happen that's not.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
It's like it's you looking at that paint. You looked
at that paint. You said, you're the problem, and a
lot of people no probably know it, but they just
don't want to admit it, so they'd rather fix everything
else around it.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
What I thought, I was depressed. I thought, you know,
that's what the problem is. I'm depressed and bloody I
was depressed, but I was taking depressant every day, so
of course I was depressed. But and it's that I
think that I believe now in if any if I'm
not feeling right, it's because I'm not improperly, I'm not exercising.
It's not because I'm not going to say it's because

(40:06):
I've got a mental health problem because I'm depressed. I
know I have, you know, and I'm quite open about that.
But I've got a look at my part, like what
is it I can do? What can I change about myself?
I don't I remember being on that needy depressants and uh,
and I was depressed at the time. It was a
couple of years into my recovery of abstinence, and I dipped.

(40:31):
Part of it was the choices I've made, and it
was really it was a tough time because I thought,
I'm not drinking, I'm doing everything right, and that I
feel like this, you know. So I took tablets and
then they numbed me out, and then and then I
went to doctor and I want to get off these now.

(40:51):
Oh no, no, you can't get off them. You can't.
And I felt, you'll show you, you know what I mean.
And I did struggle to get off them because there's
like side effects. I was getting like brains apps and
it was like was in a washing machine. So I
had to like down to powder right and really like
wean myself off this, off these tablets. And since then,

(41:14):
thankfully I haven't. I've never used anything. I don't use
anything because I.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Guess you're listening to your body, and you know your
body now because again, you know, having been sober for
so long, you can probably understand it.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
But I'm more aware of my choices. I'm more aware
of more awareness because I've got more experience, but more
experience on life terms. So I've made mistakes in sobriety.
I made loads of mistakes when I was drinking, but
then I've made a lot of mistakes in sobriety and
so but with the thing, when I'm making mistakes in sobriety,
I can look at it and go, do you know

(41:47):
what that's that I went wrong? There, I've got I'll
change that. Whereas if I was to pick up a
drink or a drug or wherever it might be, I
would lose that lesson, you know, I would then repeat that.
Whereas I think in when I'm sober, I've got If
I repeat it, it's my own fault, you know, Like
I'm I can't, Yeah, because I've got a clear head

(42:09):
and I should be able to see the patterns. Whereas
if I'm repeating the same thing over and it's it's
still going wrong, it gives me I've got nothing, you know,
I've got to own it. So, yeah, that's what it
gives me. It gives me that, you know, And it
is difficult because what you said earlier, got to use it.

(42:29):
That middle ground is not something I'm used to. I
wasn't used to middle ground. I wasn't used to feeling normal.
I was used to extremes, extreme lows, extreme extreme highs.
That's what I was used to. So getting them getting
to like sort of like middle middle was this don't
feel right. So I was partial to self sabotage in

(42:49):
myself because I felt less than because I felt like
less than other people. I had a thing of where
I should belong because of all the guilt and shame
I was carrying. So I thought, you know, I belong
about here somewhere, And every time I put my head
over that thing, I was like going, oh no, I
don't like that, and start to sabotage myself. I didn't.
I was doing it.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Imposter syndrome in a way.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Yeah, Yeah, that's what's wrung to mind. When when you're
saying that imposter syndrome.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
I think it's just because I've had like such a
the life in it, the madness of the life in it,
and all the stuff I've done, and then all the
guilt and the shame that you've got to cope with.
It takes a long time to get shaken out of.
You feel like you don't deserve you don't deserve it.
You know, it's off.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
I was going to say, having having been as long
as you have, now, do you you know you're quite confident,
you know you feel that you Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I'm not I'm definitely
not perfect, and I'll make it. I'll make mistakes, but
I'm just a far better person than I ever was,
and so much about myself.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
And yeah, not only that, but you've projected that help
now on so many different people as well. You know,
you must get it so much. I mean you're a
you're a really humble person. You know, I really admire
that about you. But you must get some satisfaction knowing
that you've you've had such an impact on so many
people's lives.

Speaker 3 (44:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
The people I know where you've directly held, they hold
you in such high regard for the help you've given
them because you've saved their lives.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
You know, it's there's a there's a there's a flip
side to it, So yeah, there is. I mean, I've
got a lot of people in Wigan that I got
sold with are still so now like years and one
of them I detos in my house and he had
really bad OCD problems, and he was like, but he
did everything. He used his O C. D in his recovery,

(44:43):
so he did it all by the book, and I
was like, Maverick, I was like renegade. I mean, I
did all my recovery the wrong way. He went back
to work, got involved in relationships. I shouldn't have that,
you know. I was doing it all the hard way,
where he was like, no, doing it by the book.
So and he's still so over now and I know
what he is, and I can pick the phone up
and but he you know, and I detoxed him in

(45:05):
my house because he he was going into rehab. He
was going to go into rehab. And then what happened
was there was a guy coming to one of the
that I was speaking to, who admit the cut down.
You know, so when you when you when you're in
alcoholic EF, there's a thing of cutting down to a
mount but you and you have ancoticst all lies. So
you had one who was going on, I'm cutting down,

(45:27):
and he was like wreck, like he's dead now. And
then Paul I could see was actually cutting down and
that's like torture. How can he cut down? He was
like cutting down to like four cans a day and
it was torture. And then he was waiting to go
into a rehab so I was, like, he phoned me
up and he went. He was in tears. He said,
I can't get into the free app like they've let

(45:47):
me down. So I went, are you telling the truth
about the four cans? And he went, but this is
a psychological thing. So it's only four cans. He thinks,
four cans? How can you not get off that? But's
so it's such a psychological tie like connection to it.
And I went, well, if I knew he was telling
the truth, so I went, come and stay with me.
He ended up staying about six months. But he went
into the real He went into reab to deal with

(46:11):
all the other stuff, right, because he had a know
there was no other stuff that was going on. So
you don't he didn't actually go into rehab to stop drinking.
You helped him with that, Yeah, so he'd already had
a head start, so he went in the reabbit. Yeah,
but back then he was in rehab for a couple
of years. I rehumed him and everything else. He was
brilliant night. But for each one of you know, Paul,

(46:33):
anyone mmy talking about him, but he through for one
person like Paul, there's end ten or twenty that have
made it. Yeah, and I've said this, and I went
into recovery almost twenty years ago. Eighty percent of the
people that were there are dead. Now that's the reality.
And I've lost a lot of people. So yeah, there

(46:54):
is I do get a lot out of helping people.
But I don't have any expectation, you know what I mean.
I'll do it without expectations. So I'm always prepared for everyone. Yeah,
everyone I have to be so I can get I
don't get close. Also, I'm not here to be their
friend as well. I mean I can't get too close.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
You just don't know someone's going to be do.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Yeah, I have to be.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
People can change though.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Because in the line of work that I'm getting in,
it's knowing sort of knowing your boundaries, but also knowing
when someone's maybe too far gone. Because something I want
to sort of focus on is more than middle agering,
because if you know what I mean, like that, you know,
if someone was coming to me and they were heavy,
strong drinkers, swinging you know, bottle of vodka, et cetera day,
you know, You've got to know your strengths, and it's

(47:42):
like I can't necessarily help you there, and so it's
no audience. Yeah again, know your strengths. And you know,
as much as I want to help people and be
their accountability, you're putting pressure on yourself and you know it.
I guess it's that you the good nature and you
does want to help people, but you've got to know

(48:03):
your limit.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
I think you have to. The thing about healthy people
is that I have a lid on your own stuff,
you know what I mean. That's one thing. The reason
that I'm still doing this today is because I did
keep quiet. It took me a long time to get
my confidence, and I sat there listening to everyone like radar,

(48:24):
figuring everything up. And then I realized quickly that I
weren't going to save everyone. So I've become quiet. Some
people say, oh, you've got favorites and all that, and
I was like, oh, they still do, I think, But
it's it's kind of like I can gauge it and
this person may be ready, Yeah I can. I can
help them.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
And is that if you don't mind me saying, is
that me? Because you can see a bit of yourself
in them.

Speaker 3 (48:50):
Of course, Yeah, yeah, of course, of course, and all
the bad.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
I guess it's probably an element of that. And from
lived experience. I bet you've worked. I bet you've helped
people from all different walks of life, all different stages
of that journey. An't here. So I guess the time
you've become accustomed to people have a similar story in addiction,
don't there They all have a similar story in some respects.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Well, people help me, and that's how I see, like
the people that strangers helped me. I was in the town.
I didn't know that these people. I knew a cousin,
and it helped that he was my cousin because I
thought at first, I thought he's not going to lie
to me, because I thought everyone was just making it up,
you do, like you think, like is this real? Like
you know, but I knew you weren't going to lie

(49:36):
to me, so that he was a massive influence on me.
Saved my life. But uh yeah, it took me a
long while to realize what it was to accept it,
to accept that rather than just admit I had to,
I had to sort of lock it in. But yeah,
and these people, like they there was people that made me.

(49:58):
I used to say sorry for everything. The guy called Frank,
and he was sixty, in his sixties, and it was
you think about back, he's dead now, but and he
went back drinking and he killed him. He stopped me
saying sorry because every time, you know, when I was
over compensating all the time, I'm sorry for everything, sorry
for being alive, like sorry, sorry, sorry, Right, he didn't

(50:20):
mean anything because I was saying it all the time.
And he used to say to me, I'd be sorry,
be happy. Every time I said it, I'd be sorry,
be happy, And it's in mantras that you pick up.
And then every time I then said it, I went
I thought, with Frank, be happy. You don't be sorry,
be happy, And it's people like that. And they didn't.

(50:41):
There weren't. There was no money.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Exchanged, do you.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
It was that thing of see. I had to get
out of that as well. I had to think if
I'm going to carry on doing this. I went years volunteering,
and I thought because I didn't want, I had this
thing in my head of like why would I take
money from something that was given to me freely? So
that's why I introduced art and all the stuff doing
so I could help people, but do it so that

(51:04):
I could. I don't mind taking money in that way
and then then helping other people. I suppose I've never
taken early money off somebody that like another alcoholic in
that way because it was given to me for free
free d you know, like strangers help me. It's difficult
because I trust issues and I was thinking why they

(51:24):
helping me? Why? But it's I know what, I know
it it's too way. I get as much out of somebody,
much out of them as I do for me. It's
too way.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
No, definitely, I completely agree. I mean, if there was
a way that I could survive and not have to
charge by doing certain bits that I'm doing. But hence
reason for the sober socials and whatever. Like, if you've
got the time and you know and you're passionate enough
about it, then then great. And I think, as I said,
what you're creating here is a testament to you know,
what you've been through and what you're about.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Really yeah, I mean I just see it as like
it's a product of it's everything. I mean, I say
this a lot, and I'd have to repeat myself sometimes
and I'm showing people around but this really, this building
and everything that I do is it's a representation of
what is possible. What is possible, You've got to keep
people hope, you know, if you're not painting a picture

(52:20):
of that. Drinking is good fun, don't get me wrong.
Like it it was a good laugh like and I
enjoyed it until I didn't, you know what I mean.
So if you're going to show people what recovery is
and what sobriety is, you better make it appealing because
you've got a lot of some heavy competition. So and

(52:44):
that when I got sober, it was very I didn't
want to be in a I got sober, and I thought,
what is there for me? Like you said earlier, there
was nothing And look around, I thought, is this it?
There's nothing about like, So I'm going to have to
create it myself, you know, because what I saw wasn't
what I wanted to do. Just because I'd stopped drinking,
It didn't mean I didn't want to do dynamic things.

(53:07):
I mean, you know why, surely I should be able
to do whatever I want. But it was like a
very sort of limited thing of what it was, whereas
now it's it's opening up more and there's more, and
there's more options, there's more.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
I think there's there's more avenues to spread the words,
spread the message, such as podcasts, such as social media
such as Live Venus, et cetera. It's getting that message
out there and hoping and again the more people see it.
And I think health and wellness is a massive trend,
if you will. But I think people are investing in
themselves more as opposed to materialistic things. So I think

(53:42):
now now combining that along with everything else, I think
sobriety is in my opinion from what I could see,
but it's a bit like anything. It's you know, once
you notice it, you see it once you notice it
a bit more so now I'm noticing sobriety is like
really on the rise. But is that because I'm in it.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
That's what I was just about saying. Do you feel
like do you feel like there's a I personally feel
there is a wider cultural shift, Yeah, particularly amongst younger
people towards drinking and substances. I think there is a
cultural shift. That might just be because, like you said,
I'm kind of involved with it in some way, shape
or form. So maybe it's just a bit more prevalent

(54:20):
in my algorithm, so to say.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I saw it, I saw a statistic. I think it's
the most recent, is it? Gen Z the most recent generation?
Like when you're looking at booz sales, and I mean,
let's say the graph is up here for you know,
our generation et cetera. Gen Z is down there. But
that's not saying that they're finding other ways to have fun,
maybe with other substances, et cetera. But when it comes

(54:44):
to alcohol right down there.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
Yeah, it's definitely changed. Yeah, and recoveries changed. I mean
our generation, we have a lunatics, absolute lunatics. You know,
there's all the sort of laddet thing as well. Women drink,
can you know?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
It's the rate of culture as well, wasn't it. Yeah?

Speaker 3 (55:03):
It was just I've said it before, like I mean,
not my environments, all the environments I was in were
just I don't really like going to go over all
the war stories or incriminate anyone really, but it was
mental right, And it was you know the I could
take you drink at work and you know, no one

(55:25):
even it was a bad honor.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
I was quite good at you. I was very good
at you.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
One day I'll tell you how good I was on
when when it when, I'll have no detriment on my job.
But yeah, you're right there that that's the thing in
it with with valcal and whatever else. You have some
of the best experiences your life on them, but it's
you feel like ship afterwards. Do you know what I mean?
I wonder what would the world be like if if

(55:52):
hangover wasn't a thing? Do you reckon? Everyone had just
be funked upon the time?

Speaker 3 (55:57):
You know, Well, it's that. Yeah, I think with the
way life is, there's always it's like anything. It's like
food in it it's set up in a way. I mean,
that's why cabbage. You know, if you eat cabbage, you
don't think, all right, it's healthy, but I don't really
get much out of it, Whereas if it was cakes

(56:17):
would just make your skinny, wouldn't, But it don't. So
it's always like it's them temptations. You always have to
be if you don't know how to moderate things, you're
kind of going to get yourself in trouble.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
You with anything, regardless of it, even if it's super
healthy as well. Know, too much water is not good.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
For you, know, I mean too many Brussels sprouts, too
much podcasting. But yeah, the thing I I was interested
in with yourself was the like the psychology of food
and the connections of food, because for me, I believe
that that's where it started for me. I think that

(56:54):
it was a connection with trauma I think in my life,
like because it was a Brant family, so my mum
wasn't around, one wasn't around, and it was rather going
to all the ins and out. Yeah, I mean I've
got a good relationship with both my parents, but my
men then become like a role model for me. But
she used to feed me, you know, and I loved it.
I'd get I remember getting them to atilla chips. I don't.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
And I had a grandma called Sweetie Grandma little those
Harry Bow things like literally we go around there and
I mean I wouldn't say she was much of a feeder,
but you know, again you're going to grandma's. It's a treat,
like what can I have sweets?

Speaker 3 (57:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Grandparents can't moderate way.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Because they've got a short period with you and they
want to make the most of it. It's like they
want to spoil you, don't they. And and that's that's
the sort of impression I got from it, But for
me the boost thing. I was from a massive family,
so there was like seven, you know, seven of us
living in the house at once, siblings that is so
for food and my parents are put up, so you

(57:56):
were kind of in a way. I'm sorry, they won't
mind me saying that. You were left to your own
devices to a certain degree. So you could sneak something
in the cupboard, or we'd have like this big like
chest freezer where you can grab a chock ice or
something like that and pop tarts in the in the cupboard.
You shove them in the back so your siblings couldn't
find and then you'd sneak and whatever. There was all

(58:16):
these mechanisms to sort of get what you wanted, I guess.
So I would be at my mum's and with there
being so many of us, like you know, you just
kind of eat what you want and then it'd be
Chinese and whatever, and we were all eating sort of
similar sort of portions because it was kind of schooled in.
It was like bank there you go off, there you go,
and then go to my dad's and he would in

(58:36):
effectively sort of not trying to clean up the mess.
But you know, he was quite sort of structured with it,
and he was a bit like, you know, you kind
of like I was getting bullied at school. I was fat,
you know, and he was a bit like, what can
I do? I can't go and beat up these kids,
So how can I help my son? So, you know,
we would go on bike rides, we would go on
walks or whatever, like, we'd try and be active, and
we'd even do like workouts together as a family. And

(59:00):
he would sort of try and not that I wouldn't
say a structured diet as such. I mean, bear in mind,
was quite young, so you know, some people look at
that and go, oh, maybe that's where your problems are
come from. But he was just trying to do what
he thought was best. And so I do rather than
look at that and go that's why I got the
way I got down was greedy.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Yeah, yeah, greedy and thing it's interesting you're saying that
I was trying that really interesting because for me, it's
like that is the final demon for me, I still
have I think I'm always been a little bit fat
in my head, you know, and I fluctuate my weight
fluctuate still, you know, like I'm just before, like a
few before Christmas. I think I was running and I

(59:41):
was eating right and weight dropped a bit and then
it all it's all gone wrong again. But I do
have this thing from like you're saying, I don't think
I got bullied because I was too it was too
much of an urself to get really, but I did
get teased, that.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Was it, And I would say bullied was not right term.
There was a couple of just comments, you know, Yeah,
people just say certain things and what you do you Yeah,
I remember a bit, but you clock them once and
then that's it. But it stays with you, definitely. I
still remember some of the comments.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
Now. I remember I was at primary school and these
one of the soe there was two girls and one
of them my dad, like, you know, like when I've
been a real little kid. She was like my girlfriend,
and it was and then it was one I had
a crush on, and I was like, you know, ten
or nine or ten, And I remember emptasing me saying

(01:00:32):
things and I was like, and it's sort of crashes
early at bit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
I remember one of the songs fat he's around, he
bounces on the ground, you know what I mean? Like
they'll sing that to him again. I think you've become
quite good at self deprecating you. You shrug it off
and like go, yeah, well, you know, I know I'm fat,
but you're ugly or whatever you as a kid. But
it does hair. I mean one of the I remember
going up to school dinners and you know, I don't
know if you remember, the teachers used to sort of

(01:00:57):
seconds anyone want any seconds. I remember going up.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Thirds or whatever, I go for second goes.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
I'm talking about it. That left the mark. So yeah,
there was all these little things and you know, again
going back to the imposter syndrome and that I still feel,
even though I've lost all this weight, I still feel
there's part of me that still feels like the fact kid.

Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
So I think that you're always kind of fat in
your head.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
You're gone thin, you know, you know, but it's a
bit like if you look at your sobriety, you were saying,
you're sober longer than you were you know, drinking in
a way, so it's like it's a new life for
you really, So technically, yeah, yeah, I haven't been thin
enough for it to sort of become my new identity yet.
So until I get thirty three years of things. This

(01:01:52):
could be my new life. So it's kind of like
fact had gone thin in my like I had my again,
I fluctuated, I had my yo yo sort of diet
where I was playing. I was in good shape, but
deep down I was a fat kid gone thin and
I still am. So it's like when people see me,
it's like, boo the hell you waste it away, which
is a nice compliment to get, but it kind of
highlights how fat they used to think.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
I mean, that's some going, and it loses in seven
seven stone that is some going. But yeah, I went
down and see when I was about sort of fifteen sixty.
I think you used that though, didn't you. I think
if I didn't have that, i'd probably be like that.
I'd really massive, like because I've always got this thing
of go come on, you know. And I'm not a

(01:02:35):
bit overweight now, but there's always that thing of I've
never been massively overweight because I just rein it back
in because of that psychological thing. So I've actually it's
actually helped me in a way, I would believe.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
I think weight loss and sobriety in a way it's
do you know what it is. It's discipline. Yeah, I
think that's really If I could do it with booze
and the sacrifice I made there, I can do it
with food. And then, as I said, having gone vegan,
that's even more discipline because it kind of you know,
you go to a restaurant and you've got you haven't
got much choice, et cetera, so you just get what

(01:03:08):
you're given in a way. So it's a bit like
I always look at the two the same you go to.
I know, I know you're saying you're not too fuss
about your alcohol free versions, but when I see an
alcohol free beer on tap, just one, I'm like, I'm
buzzing because I don't normally have a choice. Where it's
a bit like vegan food, you don't normally have a choice.
You get what you're giving in a way. It takes
the I guess, the craving out of it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:30):
It's interesting you said that because the alcohol free beer
is so when I stopped drinking, Yeah, it was. It's
the people you have around you, the influence you. And
I remember someone saying, well, did you drink long alcoholic
largo when you were drinking? And I thought, no, way,
you know, And they said, well, why would you drink
drink it now? And then also why would you drink
something that's suggested this is personally to make sure, Yeah,

(01:03:53):
it looks like what you want, it even taste that
what you want, but it ain't got what you want
in it?

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Is that?

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
Is there a risk involved in that? And I thought
the early days they were right it was a risk
involved because it's suggestive, you know. So I like, I
didn't do I didn't have it. Now I remember the
same with alcohol in food, so I remember like not
having it in like things that taste of alcohol. So
I'm not I put that and what it's done, it's

(01:04:20):
given me more discipline, right, So I remember once I
went down and I was with my sister and I've
been about like ten years sober, maybe longer. And then
she got me a cake like Christmas cake and add
some sort of yea, and she got it for me.
She went, oh, no, you know, I well I've done that,
and I went, I don't worry. I eat it don't matter.

(01:04:41):
And in my head I thought I could eat that
and he ain't going to make me want to drink.
And she went, no, no, you can't. That's and she
was right, because it's my discipline. It might not make
me drink, but it gives me more discipline. So the
thing of not now more discipline.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
My brother he's sober as well, and he was one
of reasons, like he was my not my influence. He
didn't tell me to go sober or anything, but you know,
I saw kind of what he was getting out of it,
and I was like, oh, that that looks nice, But
he was saying, it's a slippery soaper. Really, you go
from an alcohol free beer, then you go for I
don't know, point five percent that is, and then you
go for two and a half as well, just have

(01:05:17):
a shandy. I'll just have a coke and vodka, but
I'll only have that much foker. And it's it's so
for a lot of people, they worry that once you
sort of slip up with point five percent, then you
go for two and a half low alcohol and that
and then everyone's got different discipline, everyone's got different triggers.
I guess for me, I I can take it or
leave it. I like the taste. The thing is, I

(01:05:38):
like the taste of beer, and I think they've nailed
it with the alcohol free versions. I really do so
the what beer gave me with regards to, you know,
loosening me up or whatever. I'm not I'm not craving that.
I'm just craving the taste, if it be on a
hot day in a beer garden or whatever. I say
that loosely. I don't think I've been in a beer
gardens it's been sober. But the idea of it sounds great.

(01:06:00):
I know it's Roman, yeah, but I just think it's
the romance of it, isn't it. Definitely. But I went
on like a bike trick with my my dad and
my brothers were baking in the Netherlands, and again I
was having alcohol free beers. But it was beautiful, hot day.
I was enjoying it just as much as those guys
who were boosing or whatever. So I think there's a

(01:06:20):
nice feeling I get from it. But I understand other
people's viewing it as well.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
No, definitely, yeah, it's I mean, it's just like I said,
everybody's different, aren't they. Yeah, you know, I know. I
remember once somebody I knew was going and buying a
load of cream with alcohol innie and she was trying
to stop drinking. She bought all the cream like there
was I remember going. It was bird Tesco and there
was all the all the leftover crane from Christmas and

(01:06:45):
all the brandy flavored and there was sudden this lady
was trying to stop drinking. She went and bought all
of them and in her head like and I went,
we went around her house and she was actually the
creaming the crazy in her read she thought, I'm drinking.
I'm not drinking. I could still do this. It's mad
what people do, honestly, the things that people that I've

(01:07:08):
seen and done, like people that have the best I
had in place ever I've ever. I've never heard anything better.
And I've said, I know people like that have kept
alcohol in varses, you know, with flowers in so that
when the missus goes out, they've got the run up
and drink it. I mean my cousin did that. But
the best one was a guy I had his filled

(01:07:30):
his fish tank cup with vodka. That's the best one ever, right,
So with a straw, Yeah, filled the fish tank cup
he had he had like plastic fishing. He had plastic
fish in it. And I've seen everything. I've seen people

(01:07:51):
We'll heard of people like I've seen people drink on
antibuse for example, like so and abuse of which is
basically stops your liver processing alcohol. Really, that's what it does.
So they take the tablet and what if they drink
it makes them sick. And I've seen people drink on that,
Like people drink on that, you know, and you think,

(01:08:12):
are you crazy? I've seen pretty lot.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Sorry is that a detox drug? What he was just
doing about that?

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Yeah? What he does?

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Because I had something similar years ago to quit smoking champegs.
I smoked a fag. Psychologically, it sucked me up, you
know what I mean. I was like, I was a
heavy smoker on the Monday on these tablets. Come to Wednesday,
wake up. It's just like.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
A fag on that. She was going to have a fag.
You are king mental.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Sleeping up. I had some of the worst dreams I've
ever had in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
I've never heard of this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:53):
It acts onto you, so you have like nicotine receptors,
cocaine receptors. You have all these receptors and it shuts
them down. So when you have a fag, it's you
don't get the same thing, but it sends you absolutely mental.
I couldn't do it that way. I stop drink, I'll
stop smoking the Dame my son was born, because I

(01:09:15):
think sometimes it needs a big thing. You need a
big thing to do a big thing, if that makes sense.
And I just that was it. I went right, I'm
not going to smoke, and it was the Dames. Someone
was born and that was with ten tomorrow. Oh wow, yeah,
So but I smoke for ten years after stuffing drink.
I don't know many arcotics that stopped drinking.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
I don't smoke, to be fair, I stopped the day
I stopped drinking. I used to babe all day every day.
But then I used to smoke cigarettes when I drank,
and as soon as I stopped drinking, just cut them
both out and then again so again going back to discipline,
it's kind of like that, Okay, well if I could
do it for that, I could do it for this,
and if I could do it for that. So it's

(01:09:56):
just sort of looking at going do fucking anything.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
You know, I need to start open because after I
quit smoking on the Champicks, I started smoking again, do
you know what I mean? And then I quit over
a year now quit smoking the cigarets, but I went
onto the vape. The NHS gave me a vape to
get me off the six and I'm fucking dreading quit
the vape. It's going to be so out. I mean,
at least for the fags. I got to the point

(01:10:20):
where the fags where I was like a little girl
was like, you stink, dad, Do you know what I mean?
And when you when your little baby is saying you stink,
you think, babe, she's never going to go. Oh, you
smell of cherries disgusting. Man.

Speaker 3 (01:10:34):
I mean everything's hard. I mean, I've given up all
sorts of things. The cigarettes. I think. I always think,
if you can get to thirty one days, you're kind
of almost there. May so you've got to just give
yourself a month. Give yourself a month, and then I

(01:10:56):
don't crave some open salt sometimes when i'm and I
smoked a lot, smokes a hell of a lot, And
when i am the only time I crave it is
if I'm a little bit stressed. Something's quite a lot
going on, and I'll get outside and someone's having a fact. Yeah,
I get that he's in comfort. I feel like he's
in comfort for but it's really, I don't get it
a lot. So I don't get I don't really get craving.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
But I don't miss smoking cigarettes because I mean, there's
nothing worse than the lift at work when someone comes
in enof to've had a fag and you in the
lift with them, I just can't wait to get out. Still,
that just does not Yeah, it just I can't believe
I used to. I mean I never smoked in the
house or anything like that. I always went outside, you know,
But just can't believe he used to smell like that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Sorry, if you considered hitting the therapy, I haven't.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Made to be honest. No, It's one of them things.
It took me a long time to get to the
point again where I wanted to actually quit smoking, where
I felt like I had the mental capacity to do it.
Do you know what I mean? Like with me, it's
like life's busy. You've got to make time for these changes,
do you know? Do you know what I mean? For me? Anyway?

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
You just is that just your head putting it off?

Speaker 1 (01:11:59):
Maybe yeah, maybe there is an element, Maybe there is
an element of that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
Theres an those human beings we we justify. Part of
our brain justifies what we're doing. So if I went
out we're sitting here talking about sobriety, you know, but
I was wondering people that didn't want people to get sober.
And if I went back out there drinking, I would
soon start just to find that what was all that
recovery stuff about what was I doing this?

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
I did? I actually did hypnotherapy for my eating. So
that's again I don't know how much of a role
it played or whatever, but it was more about Porsche
and control, et cetera. And you get this audio track
that you listen to, and so I don't know if
it was maybe a bit of a placebo because I
was doing everything else. However, something worked.

Speaker 3 (01:12:47):
So hypnotized seven Stone and in the morning back in the.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
Room, puts you on there, gives you some ampeck.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
It's got loads of holes in me. But yeah, So
again I don't know how much you know there is
in that, but it is. I think it probably helped.
So if you know, it's one of those kind of
taboo sort of things, but if you were quite serious
about looking into it might be worth it go. I've
said it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
It's like with with the fags that got to the
point where it was easy, do you know what I mean?
It was like there was no redeeming qualities. And like
after I mean, I've always kept on top of my
fitness and whatnot, you know, been active. But after I quit,
after I went from Siggs to Vaypen, my fucking health
got better exponentially, everything, skin, everything, you know what I mean.

(01:13:38):
But like, I know, the vay paint good for me,
but when when all the problems, It's like.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
I'll tell you this now, right, it's probably not a
very good advert for stopping smoking, but I actually felt worse.
I've stopped smoking because my eating went up. Yeah, without
doubt put the weight. I put the weight after stopping smoking.
I've never really been able to like shift.

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
It because this press is your appetite, doesn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
Yeah, And actually I started to have stomach or stomach
problems and I'm not doing very well.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
That was the sugar three mints.

Speaker 3 (01:14:13):
Well that's it. Yeah, today I've got a load of
sugar three mints. This is the thing about obsession, isn't it.
It's like I can't I'm old or nothing. And there
was some sugar three mints and today right, and I've
gone I've just picked them up like that an foles
anfles and eating them. And then I thought, why did
I do that? And I came down here earlier and

(01:14:35):
I could be guts with no am I going to
get through this safety? But again, it's just it's that's
what I'm like. I like it with tablets, and you know,
that's why I have to abstain. You know, my headaches
worse than everyone else's. I need six tablets.

Speaker 1 (01:14:57):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:14:57):
There's that thing in me that wants just once more,
you know, and I have to just be aware of
it all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:15:08):
It means there is some form of awareness.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
That yeah, of course, yeah, I think that's it. As
long as you're aware of.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
You If you're aware of your awareness, it's useful being
aware of your flaws. Know, that's perfect as.

Speaker 3 (01:15:23):
Also be taking it when people like That's why I
like to stay around other people that are honest, because
I don't We don't know when we're mis behaving or
acting out all the time, like we only see it
from this, you know, looking out, So we say that
we're in each other's eyes and ears. And sometimes people say,
you know, they'll say to me, come on, I mean,
look at yourself and I needed that the thing that

(01:15:47):
I still need it and I'll do it to other people.
And it's it's difficult telling people the truth because you're
not going to make friends and they're not going to
like it. But in all the years of me not drinking,
I don't remember things and sounds bad, but I don't
remember my dad saying even proud of me, although he
is and he has said it, it's not things like

(01:16:09):
that that stick in my mind. It's not people patting
me on the back and I haven't done well. I
don't remember any of that. I remember people going, don't
you think it's you? Don't you think you're the problem?
And telling me the truth and I didn't like it.
I didn't like it at the time, but now I think,
thank god I had people like that around, because it's

(01:16:31):
that that sticks in my head, and it's when I
go to do certain things. I have them, but I'm
sad voices in I have them people that go, well,
you know, basically saying to me, don't do that. You
know what's going to happen. And that's it's hard to take.
It's hard to say. It's hard to take. No one
really likes to hear the.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
Truth, and that's it. I mean really, I mean a
lot of time you're just holding you know, for me personally,
when you talk about sprating whatever, no one really wants
here because you're holding up a mirror. Really, you're sort
of saying to people you know, they don't think it's
a problem because society has taught them that everything fine. Drink, celebrate, drink.
If you're unhappy, drink a wakey drink whatever. Drinks the

(01:17:10):
answer to everything. So when you're out there putting the
message out about how good not drinking it is, they're
a bit like hang about. We've been told for years
that drinks drinks amazing, and so I think yet, by
putting a mirror up to someone you know, but not intentionally,
you're just showing you're just living your life. And sometimes
people don't necessarily like it. And I'll look back now
and I go, why didn't someone tell me how fat got?

(01:17:33):
Why didn't someone tell me, like you know, when I
used to drink to excess and make it make a
tit of myself. I want someone.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Saying maybe they did, and you just didn't hear.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
It, or I didn't want to hear it, and I
walked it out.

Speaker 3 (01:17:44):
People did tell me, and I just didn't want ready
to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:48):
And admistly I will say, I mean, I don't think
she'll be watching or listening to this. But my ex,
you know, she she actually did, so we want a
holiday once and you know, I was like, look, I'm
on holiday. She didn't like me smoking. I was on
a holiday. I'm gonna drink. I'm going to smoke, and
anything you could do about it's my holiday, you know,
lead me to it sort of thing. And you know,
i'd be on the balcony having a few cigarettes. I'll

(01:18:09):
be you know, at the at the bar by the pool,
drinking whatever. And I kind of felt numb. I just
felt like nothing was really sort of making me happy
or whatever. And she even brought up the fact that
she's thought I could be depressed. I'm like, what, I'm
depressed because I'm having a few cigarettes and a few bits.
Are you mad? Like I was. I was so like
sort of shocked for it to even bring it up.

(01:18:32):
And I was, and looking back now with this clarity
that I've got, I feel I feel bad, you know,
you know, because I just shrugged off her feelings the
way I did, and yeah, it wasn't nice of me,
and that I think, you know, you're not a nice
person when when your head's not in the right space,
and so you know, it would be an opportunity to
obviously apologize for that. I guess yea.

Speaker 1 (01:18:57):
Made But I just give me an email, Tagg.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
We'll track her down. We'll track it down.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
But I just think it's not wanting to hear it.
I guess is that you know, knowing deep down, you
know you've got a problem. But and again I was
unhappy at work and unfortunately happy in a relationship. And
you know, I guess no fault of hers. It was
just not meant to be. And I think booze was
I guess my my coping mechanism.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
But then I was listening to what you said earlier, earlier,
and you said that when you went to see that
guy and he said, you haven't got sleep. Hal yeah,
you know this is what probably is. But at that
point he was probably ready to hear it. But he
and I think that you know, hypnotherapy and I believe
in using everything. Try trying it, you know, if it works,

(01:19:47):
brilliant and then but I think you have to be ready.
I think whatever it's still got You're still doing it. Yeah,
still doing it. Whatever happened. You know, you've still got
to get up in the morning and go, right, Okay,
I'm going to get through today without drinking and without
gorging on in my case.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
I.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
Mean, like you know about the vaping thing, It's like,
I'm just not at that point yet, do you know
what I mean? But you're usually with everything else about
to overcome. I've got to that point because I've seen
it having a detrimental effect on my physical or mental
health on my life. You know, with vaping, it's like
more than like a tenor a week or whatever. It's
better than it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but the welcome a point.

(01:20:32):
But I said, it's just like you know, you said,
I'm not ready. I'm not ready to even though I know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:37):
Well you're going through this will be even better, you know,
like you're going through you're aware of it, and you're
not you want to stop, right, Yeah. I think part
of you wants to stop. You have a part of
you wants to carry on. Right. That means there is
a level that's an addiction. That's how it can work.
He's going I need to do something about this and
the other parts going right, it's only a bait for you,

(01:21:00):
it's only.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
I guess there's an element of fucking hell, Dave, some
of the stuff you've fucking found a crutching, do you
know what I mean? It's any vape. I think there's
an element of that as well, Like you could go.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
On like that for fifty years, you know, or you can.
The thing is that I believe in Yeah, I think
that you have to have a bit of suffering in
order to in order to change. I think you've got
to have suffering. But I believe that there's got to
be an element of suffering there.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think you need to, like
for me personally, like with exercising and things. It's that
it's that for suffering, do you know what I mean?
I think I think everyone needs an element of suffering
in the life to grow now, not not necessarily coming
off something. But you know, people who get up, go
to work, come home, sit in front of the TV
all day, they're not very fulfilling lives. They have not

(01:21:52):
challenged themselves in any way.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
I mean, well, I'm I mean looking at sort of
your your saying your vice is maybe food and whatever.
And you know, so because I'm very much I've jumped
into fitness like so I've always kind of like, now
I feel like I need goals. So I've didn't like triathlon,
I say, sprint trat on it's one of the baby ones.
But and then I did like a ten k. Then

(01:22:17):
now I've got my half marathon, then I've got the marathon,
et cetera. So my heart is going out running and
it hurts, like you know, it's so that's kind of
like me again pushing myself out of my comfort zone
and whatever. And because it is quite easy to just
sit in. I mean, and I do, that's the beauty
of it. I do sit at home on the sofa

(01:22:37):
on a night and binge watch i know, Ted Lasso
or whatever with the missus. But because I've already got
the heart out of the way, I don't feel guilty
for it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:45):
Yeah, I started. I did a run the other day,
but I was I was doing all right. Yeah, it's amazing.
You've got to keep doing it. Yeah, it's amazing how
quick the fitness goes. But then you you can pick
up your fitness quite quick, even even at my age.
But it's yeah, you have got to keep You've got
to keep doing it, I believe, and you're right. Setting
yourself goals us important.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
I think. So it's kept me on track because although
I've got my running, I'm not as consistent with the
gym as I once was. So and again little fat meat,
old fat me is going come on, We've been there before,
so I'm right not happening again. So it's that kind
of teaching myself, you know, just to again be aware
of it and not to fall in it, because I

(01:23:26):
feel I'm not saying alcohol there's an empty void there
or anything, but I think a lot of people what
they do is they quit and don't fill it with
something else. And so therefore I'm filling it with exercise
and feeling good and the endorphins you get from that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
And yeah we've sucked dopamine when you've been hammering the
drink and that, Yeah you're going to fit, Yeah, you
just will.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
And that's why people, I think fail when it comes
to try jam because what they'll do is they'll stay in.
They'll stay in for you know, the whole of January,
and they don't get to really feel the benefits of
what you can do. With a sober life.

Speaker 3 (01:24:01):
When I've got a few things on dry January, we
should have like if you're gonna have dry January, why
don't you have no hero in February?

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
No smack man.

Speaker 3 (01:24:13):
Yeah, And I could never get for it. I think
that for me personally, this might be a bit controversial.
But if if you're doing dry January and you're just
waiting for the end of January, then.

Speaker 2 (01:24:27):
It's basing yourself in a way.

Speaker 3 (01:24:29):
But also it's significantly you've got a problem. There's that
might be a little bit of a problem there. Not necessarily.

Speaker 1 (01:24:36):
I did dry jam but it's not because I've got
a problem January. But you want it won't like like
the third everybody, I need a drink. It was an issue.
It's you know, for me doing it was just like
so it's to do. It's something positive, do you know
what I mean? It's encouraged in you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:54):
If you're sitting there on week two thinking.

Speaker 1 (01:24:56):
Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. I don't have that, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:24:59):
Because you can. I mean, I don't like using.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Spider, he said, that's why he went sob. He said
he did drive January and all he could think about
was booze and he was like, that's when annually he
had a problem. That's why he's been sober since. So
I think it's and again if with dry Jahan and
how it's sort of perceived it, you know, if you
can't sustain for thirty days, then it is highlighting you've
got an issue.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
I mean, well, but you're also convincing yourself that you're
okay yea, which is what that thing is, that justification,
which is what I believe addiction is. Right, So because
part of your brain, as you said, you saying that
fact voice the justification. So by going, oh, I could
do a month, I ain't got a problem. I mean
I can go a month without drinking. Straight away, you're

(01:25:41):
justifying it and going I can go a month, I'm
not an alcoholic or whatever. I mean that that word
again is a very final word, doesn't really mean anything
as such, but it sort of it suggests that you
haven't got a problem with it, but then just go
without you. It's like you wouldn't stop smoking for a
month and then go right, okay, I'm gonna have a fag.

(01:26:01):
You wouldn't do it if anything else. So it's just that,
I mean, everybody's different, again. You know, like Dave says,
Dave's hasn't got a problem with drink, but but there
will be people that have, and they will be using
it as a way of going. Well, you know, I
did DRD January. I ain't got a problem, but maybe
I have. Maybe I'm so glad I'm just going out.
Just stop.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
I'm so glad. I've never I've never enjoyed drinking that much. Really,
you know, I mean, I never really enjoyed the feeling
of being pest I'm certainly not enjoyed the feeling of
being hungover. I'm so grateful for that because everything.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
Else it's not It's not a good one to have.
I mean, for me, I believe alcohol is the gateway
for me for everything else. I know, if I started
drinking now, I'll be on the fags in no time,
and then I'll be on other stuff by the end
of the day. So it's one of those things that
once I start drinking, I don't care about the consequences

(01:26:55):
of my action. I mean, I'm not worried about that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:57):
Oh you're in a bish's gone, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:59):
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:27:00):
You know, Well, you said something really good to me once,
she said if you shut the doors on a house,
turned all the lights off, and left the house for
fifty years. I went back in fifty years later and
switched the light on, you know, or that all the
mics are going to light up again. And you obviously
have a paraphrasing new analogy. I'm sure you say it
a bit slightly different, but that's what you're describing there

(01:27:21):
in it. If you if you woke up that that
the neural pathways again, you'd be back to square one.
It's not like you're going to reweigh yourself to a point.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
You're fucking just if I could, if I could controlled it,
I would have been that's sound look at you. If
I could, if I was in control, I would have
been in control back then. So why am I going
to try and do it now? Because I couldn't do
it there? Yeah, I could, towards the end, I couldn't
drink successfully. I mean, like, don't get me wrong. People

(01:27:51):
know it's funny because you talk about sobriety and things
like that. I think people have said it before. They're
more impressed with my drinking career than they are with
my You know, I used to do this trip with
three pints of guinness in under twenty seconds, and oh yeah,
I want a load of money doing that, and people
remember that more than the you know, the years I've

(01:28:12):
not drunk, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:28:13):
And again, I feel cool. Isn't it to a lot
of people? Isn't it splitting the g with the guinness?
And that sort of crazy?

Speaker 3 (01:28:20):
Is well, I do. I've told this story before, but
I remember I stopped drinking, and I've been about it's
been a few years, and I had that social anxity,
know that social anxiety for a while, when you're around
it and you're not drinking's quite odd. Well, you just
feel it's feels strange. It did for a while, and
I didn't put myself into that situation too many times.

(01:28:42):
I found that if I did, if I did it
quite regularly, I'd get anxiety and it would be delayed anxiety,
like a couple of days later, I'd start feeling all anxiously,
not at the time, So I avoided doing that. But
I remember going to a wedding down south and there
was like a few people there I knew who knew
me from Because no, people don't know me sober from
the past. They remember me being the lunatic drunk. And

(01:29:08):
I went down there and there was a guy and well,
I used to do this guineas thing, man, I remember,
but guy giving me fifty quid just to see it done.
And I started doing it all the time, like this
under three you know, under twenty seconds and three pints.
And I've got a reputation for doing it. And this
guy he hadn't seen me for like it because I

(01:29:29):
went overseas for a long time, so I hadn't done
it for I was really very young, like twenty nineteen
twenty when I used to do it, and so he
hadn't seen me for like maybe fifteen years, right, And
I've been in this wedding and I come out and
he's like sitting there standing having a fag and he's fed.
I don't really I didn't even recognize him, but he's
like he's helping, he's fire and he's wrecked. And I've

(01:29:51):
gone out and he's gone.

Speaker 2 (01:29:53):
It's you.

Speaker 3 (01:29:55):
You're a guineas man, he went, You're a legend. I went,
I went up to him if I probably felt what
the hell was out? I went up to him. I went, yeah,
I went, I've not had a drink for five years
I went, but right, I am a legend. He walked off.
He was like looking at me, and I ended down
into the distance. So I felt, jeez, that's it. And

(01:30:16):
it made me realize that I mean, not him personally,
but how I'd done all this stuff and got sober
and everything else. And he just remembered me that it
was yesterday as the person doing the guinness, and it
just made me think, well, his life hasn't really moved on,

(01:30:37):
and mine kind of ads. I didn't mean, I don't
mean it like that, because so when you SOB would
probably be a different, different person. But yeah, it did
make me think, geez, you.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Know you're going to get a blue pluck out for that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:51):
It was like it happened yesterday to him.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
Yeah, and your life, well again, you've sort of reborn
to a certain degree, you know what I mean, You've
you've had this sort of new life, whereas he's still living.

Speaker 3 (01:31:04):
Yeah. Just do three pints of milkshake. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
I was going to say, you make me really curious
about this, three painting my guns, three pints of coffee.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
I can't come out of retirement, even though many people
would like me to. I think and that's the thing
that now it's encouraged alcohol, you know, you know, people
will go there'll be videos online and someone's done like,
you know, like some ridiculous amount of drinking drunk a
bottle of whiskey and everyone's got legend, legend and I'm
thinking that could could kid him, but no one cares

(01:31:40):
about that. And that's that's the thing I found that
I think people always want that person who goes a
little bit further, you know, like they always want somebody
that's going to do the stupid stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
I mean, my wife we went to like this Rugby
social or whatever, and I was a different animal when
I drank, and my wife had really see me around
these people. And there was with like Rugby, I always
found it to be like blood, I was drinking beers
out of boots and whatever. It's just like everyone was
just trying this bra they were trying to do all
it anyway. There was this bin literally just like a

(01:32:13):
you know, a council bin whatever, and I was I
was bad today. I just ran and jumped in this
bin like legs dangling out, and she and there came
out covering bits like She's like, what the fuck are
you doing, and I was like, oh, you know, I've
got egged on by my mate to do it. She went,
doesn't mean you have to do it. Who are you
trying to impress? Basically, she was like who are you

(01:32:35):
trying to impress? Like what are you actually doing? And
then it was like, right, like why am I trying
to impress these people that I don't see anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
And that was the problem of such a people pleaser.
I felt like I was the joke of that person
that they needed. I expect they were expecting me to
do these daff things, but I would have to drink
to a certain level to be willing to do that.
Sober me wouldn't consider doing that, So I'd have to
get blattered then do it, because that's what I thought
they wanted me to be.

Speaker 3 (01:33:03):
It was kind of like your way of I always
felt like I was always on the periphery of stuff.
You know, I've never put conform. I was never even
in recovery. I haven't don't conform. I mean I don't.
I kind of like I might go to an AA
me or go whatever, and but I don't tend to
do like a mixture of things. It's when someone asked
me what music I like, I'll go, well, I listen

(01:33:24):
to anything, so I don't. When I was at school,
I would never get into like I would go to
one little gown I thought I'll go over. Yeah I was.
I was always sort of on, but then I've got
kind of like, looking back on it, it's probably I
never felt really felt like I fitted in. But the drinking.
When I was drinking, it kind of give me that

(01:33:45):
thing of like, well, I can drink like ten men.
I mean, and I can. I'll be the last one
going home. And I knew that I was good at it.
I had like and that sounds crazy, but it was
like I could. I had a real capacity to be
able to drink alcohol from a very young age. And
it was a way of like celebrated like when you drink,

(01:34:07):
what's ridiculous, yeah coming when actually it's far more brave
and tougher what I've done in recover, like to stop
and go actually.

Speaker 2 (01:34:17):
But less celebrated, I guess to a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (01:34:19):
Yeah, like it's easy to go and get a bottle
of the bottle of this and of that and go
look at me stopping drinking really hard, Like it's like
the hardest thing I've ever to do.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
Like, people don't want to admit that it's a good
thing that you've done a lot of times, some people,
of course, in the right environments are going to, you know,
applaud you for it. But some people aren't going to go, mate,
that's amazing God. So because it's just highlighting what they
haven't done, of.

Speaker 3 (01:34:41):
Course, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:43):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:34:44):
Again, like what you said earlier, I don't know bothering
about people drinking. I don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:34:48):
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (01:34:48):
It's not a temperance move.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
You know, what you've done has helped you.

Speaker 3 (01:34:51):
Yeah, and it's But I also was that person. That's
the thing. I was also that person who was going
stopping drinking. Hi, what's that with? You have a drink?
I mean I've done that. I've I've got people that
are looking back. There's been people that have gone into
recovery that weren't well, I've got back on the piss.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
It's like, I don't leave your car, come on, don't
don't drives. I've been exactly the same person. And because
I felt like, what's the point you're coming if you're
not drinking?

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
Yeah, I mean I feel quite bad for that one
because they now, looking back, I didn't know anything about.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
You, but you were a different I was a different person.

Speaker 3 (01:35:27):
But I didn't remember getting if there was a friend
of mine. Then he actually got sectioned, And this is
the sort of person I was, And I went to
see him, and I actually remember saying to the and
looking him back on it, now, he got section because
of drinking. That was why I really, looking back on it,
I remember going to the nursing there. All he needs
is to be of his mates. Don't need a being

(01:35:47):
here or drugged up the drinking, and that's what I thought.
That is what I thought. That was where my brother.
My head was back then, I thought that that is
what I legitimately thought that that's what he needed. He
didn't need to be in that hospital when he needed
to be out.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
But that was drunk you that thought that cool ship.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
It was insane me. It was because I was, you know,
looking back, and I was insane. My thought process was
all over the place. M hmm, yeah, but thankfully not today.
Just the mints.

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
Yeah, we're gonna have to have a word about that
after this time. It's getting out of control. Man, it's
their mints and so you're going to have to have
an invention. Well, lads, I think we could do this
all night. Well mine for the time and used to
say we can't do it again at some point hopefully, Well,
this might be the last time we meet, mate, we'll
get a chat about brilliant about doing something together over

(01:36:41):
your way. But before we close out, is anything you
want to you want to touch on before we go, Henry.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
No, I mean really it's uh, as far as you know,
I feel like we've covered a lot of things, you know,
you know, gone back and forth with regards to you know, sobriety,
et cetera. So no, there's nothing necessarily you know, I
will be you know, doing more sober socials, et cetera.
Maybe again depending on the audience, but most most likely

(01:37:09):
the other side of the bridge in the holland surrounding areas.
But so you know, I'm just trying to build a community.
So if anyone is listening and would be interested in,
you know, if they're curious or at least considering it,
then you know, just just to get in touch, follow
my page, which I'm sure we'll be tagged. But yeah,
I just want to create a community where sobriety or

(01:37:32):
at least being curious about it is. You know, it's
seem as okay and normal and and yeah, and hopefully
with regards to music and what you guys are doing,
I would love, you know, to combine the two like
you guys are doing as well. So I think it's
just the start of something hopefully exciting. So yeah, just
watched the space. I guess.

Speaker 3 (01:37:54):
We'll support you as well, whatever we can do to
support that. Brilliant your part of a sober club now.
But yeah, no, no, we don't. Just anything we can
do to support. Yeah, I mean it's great what you're
doing over there.

Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:12):
I would love it to meet. Yeah, I didn't talk
too much.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
Well I was going to say, but it's always great
to have you.

Speaker 3 (01:38:22):
I could talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:23):
I think that's well, the beauty of it is we're
both so passionate about it. And I guess you know
you've got years, you know, as far as what you
can talk about, stories, et cetera. You know, I said,
this is still new to me, but I guess with
it being exciting, it is exciting. So therefore, you know,
there's a big buzz around it. Whereas you're like, been there,
done that. In a way, it's become the norm.

Speaker 3 (01:38:45):
Yeah, I'm still getting excited about it, and then still
it's still excites me. It's just I still think there's
a lot of work to be done.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
I think in a way though, I'm just looking at
what you've been able to create over here, and to be,
you know, to be able to create something similar, if
it be in a venue of some sort. Just general
wellness and actually just creating the community is what, you know,
what I'm aspiring.

Speaker 3 (01:39:11):
That's all we want to do. I just want people
to do what I've done, but with their own little
twist on it, and then just go, look, you can
do whatever you do, you know. And I had good
people around me going telling me that, not just stopping
the drinking or whatever. Yeah, yeah, they said to me
I could do whatever I wanted. Made me believe that
I could do whatever I wanted. So I try and
do that to other people, and you can. It's you've

(01:39:34):
got to. I think that you for me, I took
my time with you. I didn't rush into anything. It
wasn't it wasn't. I didn't always have everything that is here.
Now there's a struggle, here's a struggle, and there's sacrifice,
and it's hard work and it takes time, but it's
worth it.

Speaker 2 (01:39:53):
I think that's for anyone listening as well to hear
that it's not going to be all plain saling. You know,
at the end of the day, if you do me
that decision, yeah, there's going to be some bumps in
the road. But you know, if you're looking at long term,
again from yourself, speaking from experience, if you're saying it's
worth it, then happy.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
Days, it's definitely worth it. You go to dig deep sometimes,
you know, and that's that's okay as well. Everything passes,
even the bad day, you know, the bad days past,
the good days past. But the thing that I found
about not drinking is that I was always a success
of that. Yeah, even when I felt really low, I

(01:40:30):
was doing it always. That was the thing that was
holding me. I was thinking, at least I'm successful in that.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
That's good. That's a really nice thing actually.

Speaker 3 (01:40:37):
So yeah, and every day if you think like that,
you know that every day you're a success.

Speaker 2 (01:40:40):
You're always every day you're always a winner.

Speaker 3 (01:40:42):
Yeah, it's true, and that has pulled me through some
really dark times.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
That's honestly I will use that if you don't mind,
you can.

Speaker 3 (01:40:50):
Have that one on me.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
Thank you, brilliant, Thanks again, Listeners. If you've liked What
your Heart, you like What if Today, Like and subscribe

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