June 3, 2025 • 55 mins
In this heartfelt and inspiring conversation, we explore the creative compulsion behind capturing life through a lens – especially in the ever-changing beauty of seaside settings.
Photographer and musician Dan Baker shares his artistic journey, reflecting on childhood memories, the emotional pull of coastal towns, and how photography and songwriting intertwine as forms of storytelling.
We dive into the world of street photography, discussing the delicate balance between observation and intrusion, the magic of natural light, and the importance of being present to catch fleeting, human moments. The conversation also unpacks how limitations can fuel creativity, the struggle of creative blocks, and the ongoing quest to develop a unique artistic voice.
At its core, this episode is a celebration of life, connection, and joy – reminding us that the truest art often comes from vulnerability, curiosity, and embracing who you are.
Check out Dan Baker:
Website: www.danbaker.me
Instagram: @danbaker88
🔔 Stay connected with us for all the latest updates and announcements:
Photographer and musician Dan Baker shares his artistic journey, reflecting on childhood memories, the emotional pull of coastal towns, and how photography and songwriting intertwine as forms of storytelling.
We dive into the world of street photography, discussing the delicate balance between observation and intrusion, the magic of natural light, and the importance of being present to catch fleeting, human moments. The conversation also unpacks how limitations can fuel creativity, the struggle of creative blocks, and the ongoing quest to develop a unique artistic voice.
At its core, this episode is a celebration of life, connection, and joy – reminding us that the truest art often comes from vulnerability, curiosity, and embracing who you are.
Check out Dan Baker:
Website: www.danbaker.me
Instagram: @danbaker88
🔔 Stay connected with us for all the latest updates and announcements:
- Instagram: @soundsfromthedockside
- Facebook: @soundsfromthedockside
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I think there's like a magic or an energy to
it where you just have to cross, and if there's
post across, there's post across. And I think that was
one of them times where it was like that was
meant to happen, and if it didn't happen, if I
did decline that photo at that time, it's going to
happen at the second time. All of those things just
solve problems too easily for I think creatives. And I
think if we do have like a limited palette to
(00:22):
play with, but we have to get outside of our
comfort zone. We have to force ourselves to actually think,
and I think that is really important with being any
any creative industry. Really, it actually happens in front of
you and at this moment fulfills and you're just like,
oh my god, I almost predicted something was going to
happen here, and something did. I didn't know what it was,
but something happened. You're there to capture it. Amazing. How
(01:10):
are we doing?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Nice to meet?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, it's good. I'm glad to have been.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm glad we got acquainted for our good friend Tom
out now so.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We don't forget Ovi it'll be funny.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
We'll get a message.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Did you mention me?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Do you mention me in the podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's probably already messaged us now I mentioned yet vibrating.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm sure the phone's going in the pocket.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So let's get straight into it. I read online you've
described your photography work as a compulsion to create. So
what what what? What was that first compulsion that made
you pick up a camera?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's just that, like you know, that creative itch you know,
when you've got to make something. It's almost like if
you haven't done something for the day and you just
feel like something that's not quite sitting right, I get
a bit pent up like that. So it's like, if
I've not been and created something, then I do feel
a bit like.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I say on you all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I feel compelled to play music every day, even if
it's just like sitting at a piano for five minutes.
But yeah, same as you in that respect. But what
what first major pick up a camera? But what you know,
what made you think I'm going to become a photographer,
I'm going to start taking photos.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I don't think it was ever like a a stage
we think I'm going to be a photographer. It's sort
of just you just sort of like ease into it.
I think. So I found out pretty late, even though
my school at the time knew I was dyslexic. I
found out years later. But through doing that through the
whole like dyslexic journey, which is obviously a load of fun,
(02:39):
intic is going through school. It's just like that's spell
that's handy.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
How old was you only find out you?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I think I was in the teens. Yeah, I think
my education systems knew when I was primary school, but yeah,
no one ever said it wasn't sort of really spoken about.
So I got to the point where I was pushed
I almost as a creative you are. I think there's
a lot of dyslexics are and creative creative industry, and
(03:07):
I just sort of fell into that as a as
an outlet because that's what I was drawn towards. Reading
and writing wasn't a strong suit of mine, being able
to go out and produce something like Originally I thought
I was going to be like some sort of artists
or something like that. The idea of creating and that
was really fulfilling, and I thought I was going to
like do graphics or like some sort of something within
(03:30):
the media industry and what they like drawing and that
as a kid, and I took that through one interested
in that. It's like through you know, when you didn't
make choices at school and getting to college and all that.
So I did that. I'm sure you probably went through
a similar path yourself, Like.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yes, similar, I mean I went to to Lindsay and
Claithorpees which was a performing arts school, so all our
options was kind of based around the arts. See a
very similar I did music production in media when I
was at school. I didn't know what I wanted to
do when I left school. It was just subjects I
found interesting. And anyway, they did the medium production because
I kind of saw them as kind of satellites for
(04:06):
my music in a way, and I thought they might
come in quite handy, like for all the things you
do alongside your music later on in life. But and
as I guess, I was coming handy, but not career wise,
only hobbywise. Yeah, I pretty much took my options to
progress my hobbits.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
But do you know what I think it was? Sometimes
there's that great crossover when when your career and your
hobbies do yeah, just collide.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, but I think I'm trying to build my hobbies
into a career now, which I never thought i'd do
in a sense.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You know, we're all working towards surely, like throughout life.
If we could literally just do our past time and
get paid for it, is like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
That's the goal.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, but I don't know, I kind of got career
drive them for a bit, if you know what I mean.
And again, I've never really want done what I want to
do for a career.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So you think anyone does. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Some people tend to have it proper susty, don't.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I think they tend to be like lawise and things
that I'm going to be a doctor when a bit
square membering. We're just not coot for that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
But the idea of doing that just seems boring to me.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, just the idea of sitting down and doing spreadsheets
at the same time.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I'm happy to do I mean, my job, My job's
all right, you know, I'm happy to do that, But
I live for my hobbits.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I've got it right in that respect. But yeah, if I
could turn this into a job, that would be that'd
be great.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It's looking like pretty much, it looks like it's there,
there's a shining table, someone's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, just faking it. So back to photography, what was
something like the first photograph she was taking? What what
caught your eye?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Is a putting photographer, I think when I started out,
so a lot of people don't realize that I've got
a big love for black and white photography. And that's
where it started because I went into college and the
option was I could take photography. This is going to
be a cool like phil subjects. And I got there.
I was like jumping into black and white photography. The
old days of the digital was just starting to come about,
(06:01):
but it wasn't really there yet, so it was black
and white film.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Spend a lot of time in the dark room at
college and institute.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So I was in John Leggett in Scunthorpe, all.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Right, from originally originally yeah right, okay, I live here now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So yeah, it's like black and white photography. So, like you,
the way we was taught it was he was looking
like the past masters and things. So it was all
a high contrast graphical stuff. Work of like CHARTI bress
on that sope if you know, who that is. Some
of that seems a bit alien to me.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah, but yeah, it's like the it's the big hitters
that was in like the history, I mean working you go,
that looks like it could be a famous picture, that
type of thing, you know, the iconic type of pictures
that you'd sort of see and go, I think I've
seen that somewhere before.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
That was the type of work that we'd see and
got inspired by. So that was what really drove me
to begin with. And then I think you go through
his process of like trying to find your boys, and
I mean it's it's a long process.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It's gone through you almost trying to replicate them in
the early days, and that was your inspiration, trying to
try to achieve the sort of shots and style that
they was doing.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Basically, Yeah, I think that's how we all learn into it.
I'm sure it's the same with music. Pick a guitar
and try and learn learning.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Other people's music. Yeah, people's hand positions, things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you did right. It seems like there's a lot of crossover. Yeah,
thinking about what I've been deliberating on it today, how
much crossover that might be, which we'll get into a
bit later on no doubt. Yeah, absolutely so your work
features I've had a look through obviously with you coming on,
and I've seen some of it before from Tom Sheby
and whatnot. But it's very sort of seaside centric, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
It's just a little bit yeah centric.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
So what what is it about the seaside and what
makes that you know so far for you to shoot?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well? Number one, obviously it's on the doorstep, so that
is a massive bonus I've got. Yeah, yeah, I'm not
going miles out of my way to try and do
something because I mean, if it was going to be
hard work to go and do something, you wouldn't do
it every day? Would you? You maybe try to And
I mean maybe maybe you should do something that's hard
work to do. What something you could just literally fall
into and go and do. So the coast is on
(08:10):
a doorstep. But I think also there's the there's my
love for the coast as well, and I'm sure a
lot of people do love the sea side and that
and for me, I think there's like a lot wrapped
up in like childhood memories. It's all the good times,
and I think that's what a lot of people are
drawn to. It's being said before that I'm possibly like
chasing my childhood. It's that idea that's there's something to
(08:33):
discover there and it's probably like a bit of me.
I'm almost on that path of self discovering myself, like
what is it that I'm really looking for? And it
gets really deep and I mean there's the surface level,
which is I'm taking sometimes pretty sometimes something grotesque. I mean,
to be an overflowing bin is quite interesting, you know,
(08:54):
it's loves that it's just weird. But then there's beautiful
scenes of like sunset twilight on the beach where it
just looks magical and everything in between that.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
So I've read online that you described sort of that
seaside location as a social mixing part. Yeah, yeah, which
it is. It truly is it is. You know, it's
it's a good way to describe it, and it really is.
But is there any sort of moments of interactions that's
you know, really really sort of solidified that concept for
you that it is a social mixing part because you
(09:27):
must meet some characters when you're out and out and
about doing your.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Work every day. Yeah, there's always a character. But I
think that's the thing. I think this is what draws
me back, and it's drawn me back for almost a
decade now that you can walk in. I mean Cleethorps
itself is just a backdrop for me. It's a beautiful backdrop.
It's got that sort of age putina to it where
everything's you know, it's some of the it's falling to pieces,
but that's part of the charm.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I find Cleethorpes and other similar seaside times like Blackballscarb
but things like that, so quintessentially English.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That's a lot of other places I've lost.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But I think some of that is the fact that
there's not as much money pumped into it, so it
has to stretch a little bit further. And then you've
got the charm of things like hand painted signs and
things still around from what forty fifty years ago that
have still being maintained today rather than being replaced by
just these plastic horrible neon the not even neon, but
(10:21):
you know what I mean that that disposable stuff that
is just gonna aid with the sun and then one
year later it just looks horrible. So I think you've
got that. But then the whole mixing pot. You've got
so many people that turn up here. Literally the train station,
as you know, is opposite that fair ground, so straight
off the trains and pouring straight onto the beach. But
(10:43):
you've got that many different people descending.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Very very popular tourist destination and incredibly popular, very very popular.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Even just hearing all the accents, obviously probably we don't
hear it as much, but when I go anywhere else
in the country, God, you're not God, John Rvan. Yeah,
you definitely. You definitely hear a lot, and there's always
and there's a lot of people as well. With it
being in the north, everyone seems very friendly. So if
you get anyone from further north, they're quite interesting what
(11:14):
you're doing with a camera or what you're doing down here,
and you get them into those conversations. You get to
meet people and have those conversations about who they are,
where they're from, and what they're up to on that
particular day.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's a lot of the enjoyment.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Who is I think meeting people? Yeah, yeah, definitely, I
mean sometimes there's times where you don't actually go and interact.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Well, would you say that knowing that there could be
one of them interactions every time you go out and
photograph the same location, would you do you think that
kind of motivates you in a sense to keep going
back and shooing the same locations.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, I think so, because I think there's it's always
interesting and if you can find someone and have like
a genuine connection with them and you've got something to
actually talk to them about. Yeah, I mean who doesn't
want that. I mean we're all searching for a connection
at the end of the day out we yea that
it's going to be so yeah, I mean it's it's
it really is interesting meeting new people, finding out what
(12:06):
their stories are and where they're from and what they're
up to. Maybe it's just because I'm a little bit nosy,
there's a little bit of that. You know, you just
want to go and stick, you know what you're.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Preaching for the choir.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I'm trying to chat to people for a little bit
and I'm trying to pick people's brains.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Should swap for a'll give you a camera rappish suppish? Yeah?
Mate on board?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
You think I'd have had some sort of like acum
in with the camera, you know, going into a podcasting project,
especially video podcasting project. You know, audio is not too bad,
but I ain't got a clue mat Honestly, he had
the camera sably of day. There was like some zebra
lines on the screen. I thought it was it was
a gonna mate. I thought that was the end of
the episode. The camera is dead, let's get a new one.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So what what your optimal shooting conditions?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Dan? Absolutely? Optimum. Yeah, it's very precise for me. I'm
a little bit like particular on this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, I mean I gauge that line, and that's why
I thought i'd get you to go into it a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So I'm shooting all sorts of different conditions. There's always
something that's going on. But I would say optimum is
late August is the time or time of the year anyway,
probably just after sunset, so you're looking like twilight into
blue hour, a little bit of haze, no clouds, completely
(13:31):
blue sky. Is absolutely There's just something about that quality
of light that you get at that time of the day,
at that time of the year. It's almost like there's
the dust is settling, like something's happened. It's just that
moment where there's a little bit of like electric in
the air, you know, just before the lights turn on,
it's that moment and you've got about half an hour,
and it tends to be the last few weekends of August,
(13:54):
so I've wait all year for literally a few hours
worth of shooting. That will be probably the time that
I make most of my images that I would consider
I'm really happy and successful.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Interesting, there's just that one window and a year.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
But I think some of that is it Maybe it's
down to like my thought process as well. But I
think there's something like I suppose it's like music and
it if you hear something, you go yes, yeah, yeah,
I just you just know instantly, like yes. I think
it's a little bit like that, and I think this
is where maybe there is a crossover with the music
and you can just just tune into my God, that's
(14:33):
exactly what I need. And I think when I see
the lights and the conditions in that end of day,
it's that sort of like you're just waiting for something
to happen, like you don't want the day to end,
and it's that sort of magic at the end of summer,
you know, like the as a kid, you don't want
the summer holidays to ever end, do you. Yeah, I
think it's that you're hanging on to the last that
you're going to get sent to bed soon, and hanging
(14:55):
on till the end day. You've got to be absolutely
not in the last half an hour. And that's the
pictures that I'm going to be looking for, because guaranteed
there'd be some kid that's just come out of the sea,
the parents have dried them off and got the clothes on.
Two seconds later you turn away and they are back
in the water. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah, it's such.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
A used location as well in it Like I don't
I can't remember whether it was this Christmas just gone
on the one before we went. I was living in
Cleethorpes near to the front, so we went for a
walk on Christmas Day along the beach and there was
kids playing on the beach.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
On Christmas Day. You know, it's even on Christmas Day
is being used, so.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
There's something quite special about that. Yeah, that's probably more
for the locals. We get a lot of the locals
down here, don't we all times of the year when
well around here. Yeah, I guess. I guess being out
most of the year as well, I get to see them,
see you spot who's who and who's going to be
the locals and then who's the tourists that are coming
in during the summer. And yeah, that's quite an interesting
(15:52):
divide as well.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
So when I was looking at your work, when I
was looking at your photos, that the feeling I got
from looking at them was like, it looks like you've
got some sort of watching You've managed to sort of
pause time, you know, and you've really managed to capture
that second in time. Is that intentional?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Are you looking for those shots when you're when you're
when you're taking them, or is it something about in
your review process, like they're the shots that stand out
to you and they're the ones you you want to publish.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I think I think it's a little bit of both.
I mean, you want to almost go no, i'ant intentionally
to do every single picture, and there is there is
ones that are of course are intentional like that, but
then there's stuff that I would just shoot that's more
of a gut reaction. So it's almost like a bit
of a feeling that you know something's going to happen,
or you get a sense of something that's going on
(16:43):
in the background or something around you, and you just
lean into that a.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Little bit, so that you're always looking for a moment.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
You're always sort of yeah, but sometimes what's going on
around you and just waiting for that perfect sort of
moment to present itself.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah. But then there's sometimes where you don't really realize
it's going to happen, Like you have a feeling about something,
you don't know what's going to happen, you know, like
when it's almost like a sixth sense, like I knew
that was going to happen that thing, but I didn't
know exactly what it was, but I knew there was
someone going to do something around here because there's a
bit of a buzz, there's a bit of an energy
about it. It's I don't know, it's a weird thing.
(17:18):
And I think the more time you spend out on
the streets photographing, and like photographers will resonate with us,
I think you do get a bit of a sixth
sense for something when moments are starting to line up,
and sometimes they come into it actually happens in front
of you and this moment fulfills and you're just like,
(17:38):
oh my god, I almost predicted something was going to
happen here, and something did. I didn't know what it was,
but something happened and you're there to capture it. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Just a universal line for that one too.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And you know what, the more you watch and the
more you become aware, the more that happens. It's really weird.
It really happens often.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Now you can never.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Quite you never can predict it. You just have to
be you have to be like just perceptive to it.
I think it's probably the best way to sort of
describe it.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
You know, I can relate to that because the songs
that you're right as a musician, but then there's songs
that are just delivered to you, do you know what
I mean, Like the songs where you really have to
spend weeks working at them and writing and then the
songs just fall out the sky.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
And it sounds like a similar situation with what you're describing,
Like there's some things you work at, but then there's
moments are just a line and you get the perfect result.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. There is the
times when you will just walk along and get on
that's just perfect. It's just a beautiful moment, and there
will be those little nuggets of moments where you're just thinking,
oh my god, that's so just poignant. I don't know
what it is, but there might just be maybe a
person walking down the street and then maybe just there's
(18:47):
an energy about them something like that, and you just
have to photograph that one little moment, and that is
it just presents itself quite innocently to you, and it's
just a case of oh, okay, that's and capture it.
But then I think there's times when you just have
to almost and it's not like a trigger happy thing,
but it's maybe more a series of maybe four or
(19:08):
five frames and just teasing something out of a situation.
And there's everything in between. So yeah, I think it's
a case of just being aware that there's moments happening
all the time and if you get really lucky and
you're there enough and you're receptive and these are words
that being echoed by many a photographer that you can
come away with absolute gold at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And it's like you said, but the more you do it,
the more of them opportunities that present themselves. And it's
the same with like songwriting, like they say, the ratio is,
you knowever, every ten songs you write, any one of
them is a single, you know, so that the more
songs you write, the more good songs you're gonna you know,
end up with.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, resonates.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But street photography is quite an intimate style of photography,
isn't it. How do you navigate that sort of fine
line between being observing and being intrusive, Because for someone
like myself, I think that, you know, I don't think
I've ever been perhaps so to say.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So I don't know what the feeling would be like
for myself. I wouldn't personally mind, I don't think, but
i'd get what they're doing it for.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But I can imagine some people must be like, fuck
you do it?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And you do get that. And I think there's a
little bit of intuition over the years where you do
get a bit of a sense of how one might react.
And maybe it's just through like reading body language and
what they're up to. And I couldn't exactly tell you,
but again, maybe it's just more of a sense or
intuition about how someone might Yeah, you know, you just
sort of get a good vibe or a bad vibe
(20:39):
from someone. I think there's a little bit of that,
But a lot of the time, the way that I work,
especially with our smaller camera, it's less intrusive and I
don't always shoot in a way that looks deliberate. So
a lot of the time the people that are in
the frames that I'm making the pictures of don't realize
that I'm actually photographing them, And I don't always want
(20:59):
to them know, because I don't want to interrupt their
if it's a family moment, for example, I don't want
to interrupt their day.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And I guess that's that like the second someone puts
like for me, the second someone puts a camera on me,
I instinctively feel.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Odd, do you know what I mean? Yeah, And I
guess that take away from the magic.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
We are That's exactly it. There's again, it's there's another
phrase for it, and it's called bruising the scene. I mean,
if you got I mean, you might intentionally do it.
You might be looking for that reaction. And I know
people that do work like that, okay, And sometimes I
will go up to people and say I am having
that interaction and it might be a chance for a
portrait at that point, less so that I would pose
them because as soon as, like you say, they become
(21:37):
more awkward the camera, and I want that natural kind
of look. But again, I'm not looking for anything that
takes away from them all. What I want to do
is tell their story from a point of view of
the positive. And I know a lot of photographers out there,
especially people are starting that look for the negative all
the time, and I really can't get across like strong enough.
You don't have to do that. You can celeb things.
(22:00):
And that's what I really want to do with my work.
I want to celebrate life and enjoyment and everything else,
and I might shoot as much as I can do.
The moments that I want to share are the the
moments of the best ones are pure joy, just that
excitement and moments where people are enjoying themselves and having
fun and you know, the best parts of the day,
the best parts of your life, And that's what I'm
(22:20):
gonna capture.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
You did, right though people often lean into the negative.
Same with anything in it YouTube podcasting, like people want clicks,
don't there, people want stuff that's provocative down there. Everyone's
leaning into it. So when you're shooting these subjects, do
you ever, like I said, you don't want to bruise
(22:44):
the scene as you put it? But is there ever
do you ever approach your subjects afterwards, like you know,
you've taken a beautiful photo and then you've gone and
spoken to them and actually let them know that you've
taken it.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Do you ever do that? Do you ever to face
with your subjects and share what you're working things?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah? Absolutely, Again, it depends what the situation is and
who it is and what they're doing. It might not
call for it, but again it's just making that judgment
at the time. But say I am photographing on the
street and I capture somebody and then after I've taken
the picture then they've realized. Then I would approach them
and say, hey, I've just taken this picture of you.
(23:21):
Here's the reason why. This is who I am, this
is what I'm about, And I'm quite happy being able
to talk to somebody and just give them a context
of what it is I'm doing. So I'm not just
like this weirdo that's walking up and down the sea
for all the time. I mean, in which I do
admit I am a weirder walking up. So there is
that side of it where I do go up to
people and say, hey, look, I've just done this, this
(23:42):
is the picture, and nine times out of ten it's
received really well. Yeah, and then it'll be a case
of can I get that picture off you I'd love it,
or can you send me? And yeah, of course, and
it'll just be a couple of days. Do they retouching
and everything or editing what ever I'm going to do
with the pictures and get that across to them. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So the reason asses I saw someone on YouTube who's
like taking portraits of people in the street. But then
he like kind of follows him for a little bit
and he's got this little personal printer on him and
he prints the shot out and gives it to them,
and it's such a heartwarming reaction every single one he does,
Like he just surprises them with this portrait printing portrait
of him and they're just it's just joy.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
You know. I had a similar experience.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So I was in Japan last year and this guy, well,
actually it was my honeymoon, so it was a delayed honeymoon.
We've planned to go o the year before, and I
hadn't actually planned it, so we never actually made it
out there, but we replanned it went across the cherry blossom,
which was amazing. And we was in Asaka at the time,
(24:43):
and this guy just wandered up to me and he
had a camera around his neck and he was signing
towards me as if he wanted to take my picture
and he would give us the picture. But I wrongly
assumed at the time he was trying to charge for pictures.
And I was like, oh, no, no, no, So I've
got my own camera, I'll take a picture and don't
worry about it. And he's quite pretty persistent with this,
(25:05):
and I looked at his camera. I realized that he'd
got something quite bespoken, unique and expensive, so I thought,
maybe he's not making money out this seems more of
a passion thing. So I said, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah,
and give him a thumbs up and everything. And he
took this picture and it was on a polaroid back
on a medium format camera. That might not mean a lot,
but it was something that was a bit beautiful for
(25:26):
me to see. I was like, oh, that's a nice
bit of kit you've got there. Anyway, he took a
couple of frames, and his whole thing was that he
took one as a portrait Me and jem my wife
just stood next to each other, one for us and
one for him, and that was part of his project.
So we've got this beautiful picture of us to on
our honeymoon, taken on this really nice passive blood camera,
(25:48):
polaroid back on it, and yeah, it's just a nice moment.
And then randomly, so this was in the middle of Asaka,
in a massive city in Japan. A few days later,
we'd moved on and gone to Kyoto. I was wandering
around this temple and just randomly bumped into this guy again.
(26:08):
But this is the stuff, you know what I'm talking about,
these like chance coincidences. This is the type of stuff
that just seems to happen. I think there's like a
magic or an energy to it where you just pass
a cross and if there's post across, there's post across.
And I think that was one of them times where
it was like that was meant to happen, and if
it didn't happen, if I did decline that photo at
that time, it was going to happen. At the second time.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
So does does he have an Instagram or anything like
that anywhere? Because I'll link it. That's why I'm getting
I actually link it so people can check it out.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, absolutely, he's got it. I will have to dig
it out because I cannot remember what the account.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Was, but you'll be down there anyway. Nice one. So
you just touched on kitter Bet So you like to
shoot the like right?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I am a like a fanboy.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You are known for it, but I've read online that
you you admire sort of the limited setup of AKA.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Sure, do you feel like having so unlimited options on
a camera can can hinder your creativity or personally not
for anyone else, But.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I think if you've got all options at all times,
it is like decision paralysis. And I'm sure that's the
same for like a lot of disciplines, no matter what
you're doing. So I think having like the limitations of
I can only do this, this and this, it does
sometimes it can be a hindrance, don't get me wrong,
But the hindrance then forces you to come up with
(27:28):
a creative solution to work around that problem. That creative
solution often leads to something far greater. Than what the
option would have been if I'd just put I've got
an option on the camera that does that for me,
or it swaps over, or it's got incredible high ISO
or something like that. That's all of those things just
solve problems too easily for I think creatives, and I
(27:51):
think if we do have like a limited palette to
play with, that we have to get outside of our
comfort zone. We have to force ourselves to actually think.
And I think that is really important within any any
creative industry really, but more so recently, I've challenged myself
to shoot with a camera. It's an old Lika, it's
(28:11):
a digital one. I do shoot with film as well,
but it's a digital M nine. For anyone that knows
with a very limited ISO rage it means it's not
particularly sensitive to like you pretty much have to treat
it like film, and I like to shoot into blue hour,
which means there's not much light around. Modern cameras are
brilliant at that because they've got low light sensitivity and
(28:32):
that you can make images pretty much in the dark.
It's almost like having night vision goggles on this thing.
Not a chance, You've got to be really careful. But
the thing is with that is I can shoot it
on a really low ISO, so I didn't get all noisy,
you know, goes all grainy and everything. I can have
a lean into that and that can be part of
the esthetic, which I quite like. All what I can
(28:52):
do is go in the other directions where I've got to.
I'll keep the ISO low, which means can be a
really clean, nice looking image, but I'll have to slowe
down the shutter, which means there's gonna be motion blur.
Now most people don't want that because you don't get
sharp pictures.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's quite cool, though I don't know when it's as
well exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So that's what I'm really interested in, So leaning into
that direction of well, I'm going to capture the movement
of things, or I'm going to pan the camera, or
I'm going to do something that leads to something new.
And I did a series a few years ago I
don't have on my website at the moment taking it off,
but basically it was a series of abstract seescapes through
winter because I was bored and had nothing else and
(29:30):
there was not really many subjects to photograph, so I
went down to the sea and I panned in these
quite bizarre sea scapes, which is it was just a
creative expression from me. But I produced this work and
I've done something again recently again because of the limitations
of the camera and I just you know, you just
have that creative itch. I'm was going to do something
different to mix it up, and I produced something which
(29:51):
I find quite beautiful and it's unlike anything I've shared
in a long time. But then the audience as well
as reacted really positive from it, and I think it's
that unknown of I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting
to make that. On the night, it just ticked a
box for me because I needed to make I wanted
to make something that I wanted to and then it
(30:15):
just it just worked. It all all the stars aligned
and I produced an image that you know, it really
really resonated with me and the audience as well.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So jamming on a camera and exactly that, exactly that.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah, when you're saying, I was like, it's just jamming
on a camera, It's just going out there jamming too.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
What happens.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, I think that's what A lot of the time,
I think that's what it is. I think a lot
of like street photography especially, I think it's just one
worst jamming slash. I think the whole abstract idea that
probably the parallel is going to be like jazz music.
I think it's that sort of anything could happen. It
could just be a random like Sacks that's just going
(30:52):
off in this corner, or all of a sudden, someone's
just jumped on a piano and just mashing the keys,
and it's just it. But it's sometimes somehow it all
slots together and sounds right. That that I think is
when street photography works well, when you're in tune to
it and you're in the moment and in the flow,
and we all get into.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
That sort of flow stay yeah, flow stage.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Once you get yeah, once we hit that, I mean,
all of a sudden, it's it's twilight and where's the
whole day gone.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
I don't know what it is about street photography. I wouldn't
say I've ever been like hugely into photography. I used
to do a little bit with Tom, you know a
few years ago. I had you know, a sal and
we used to go out and Tom really really got
into it, whereas I kind of didn't, you know, he
just carried on and I never did. But but there
was there was that photographer Vivian Mayer.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Who have you heard of her? I have, yeah, yeah,
been for the listeners.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Basically a guy bought some boxes of old film, didn't
a from a car boot sale or and a state
sail or something, and there was just thousands and thousands
of photos on there, but the most perfect street photography.
And I found I found her really interested in her works,
which was never shown. You know, there was all putting boxers.
And she passed away and there was never seen. She's
become popular since she's passed away, hasn't she.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It's such a shame. It really is such a shame.
And there is people out and I've I've got friends
and one recently that I've encouraged to share his work,
and his idea was, I will share it when it's
it's sort ready. And I get that, I do get that.
But he was sat on beautiful work and I could see,
I could see the potential for growth. So I pleaded
(32:30):
with him to start putting some of his work out there,
not just not just for to build an audience. It
wasn't that wasn't the intention, but to allow us to
see it, and also so that I could see some
of the stuff that he was producing as well. Because
he was he gets a lot of it quite hidden,
which I think was a shame. But now he's starting
to put it out into the world and show what
(32:51):
he is capable of making, and I think that spurred
him on to produce more as well.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Yeah, because it's a lot bit of self belief as
he shoots a lot of street photography as well, portraits,
random little moments and things like that.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
It's beautiful stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I think what's so good about that Vivia May's work
is I've got one similar home. Mine's a Kodak Duo flex,
like a film camera where you wear around your neck
and you look down into the viewfinder. And she, I
know she used one of them, and I think because
she was never pointing a camera from her face to
someone else's face, I think she just really managed to
(33:28):
capture that raw emotion and it's in some of the
scenery she's taken pooes of. It's amazing. It's like America
in the fifties. You know, there's like cadillacs about and
just just looks great. But there's there's something about the
emotion you see in street photography that really draws me
in anyway, do.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
You know what That's what I find. It's interesting. I
think a lot of people forget about the magic of time. Basically, Oh,
I wish it was how it was in the fifties,
But the thing is that you've got today. The thing
about today is in fifty years time a great it's
can look amazing and it's going to have that fine
linage to it. Yeah, to shoot the I've got friends
(34:06):
that have said, I hate it when there's everyone's just
on the phones. You know, everyone's just looking down all
the time. I shoot that just because it doesn't look
great right now because it's your every day. What's the
future holding? You know, are we going to have phones
in our hands in forty fifty years or is it
just gonna be implanted into our heads? God, I mean
I don't want that, but yeah, it could happen. It
(34:27):
will happen.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Well, I mean I've got a Via headset and i'd
have the implant.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Just download your thoughts straight into Instagram.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, it really is good fun, which leads me nicely,
like into this question. So photography is so accessible now,
everyone's got a really high quality camera in the pocket. Yeah,
like you ever cognizant of that? That, Like people can
take really good photos with not with not a lot
of skill or on money. I suppose is really you know,
(35:00):
it's really is a but what are you doing to
sort of stay in front of that curve? Or do
you just think I'm going to stay true to what
I do and if it works, it works.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
If it doesn't, then.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I think it is that. And but I think the
whole thing with photography, Yeah, the gear matters to a
certain extent, but that's like saying I've got an auto
tuner on my guitar, or my guitar can spec out
this pre programmed song or keyboard probably more than a guitar.
But I'm sure if you could do that. Yeah, But
(35:30):
then I mean, how many albums have you bought recently
that was just a computer program? You buy the artist,
don't you. You don't buy that. So I think the
idea that everyone's got equal technology, I think that's great.
I think that levels the playing field. I think it
makes the barrier for entry particularly low, so you know,
(35:51):
there is no hierarchy in it. And I think there's
the thing about Martin Pass said it that his work
is both high and like low art at the same time,
which I think think it's fantastic depending on what the
situation is. You know, it can be anything and everything
and everyone can now shoot. The problem is what do
you point the camera at? And this is where a
(36:13):
lot of people fall down. I mean I fell down
for probably like fifteen years not understanding what to do
with I got the idea of how the camera works
and everything. That's brilliant, but now what just because you
can take a picture of the blurry background, that's not
that's technically that's good, yeah, but what does that mean
what you're trying to say with that? And I think
(36:33):
that's where a lot of people do stumble or it
takes a long time to get into it. And there
is people out there that obviously just step into a
day one and go, I've got my vision, I know
what I need to i know what my sound is,
I know what my vision is, I know how it's
going to be. They're can make it be and the
short the short falls potentially, how how do I do
that technically? If you've got the technical down and you've
(36:56):
got the vision down, then oh, you're onto a winter,
are you. Yeah. I think it's a case of just
figuring out where you're going with stuff, what your taste is,
what you like. I think I came into it backwards.
I started to strip things and whales I know I
don't like, which was quite interesting for me. If I
don't like that and I don't like that, then maybe
(37:17):
that's the way I go. And then it's that sort
of like fumbling a lot bit in the dark, and
so you start what.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Was that process for you? Then, you know, stripping things away?
So I think, what was you doing that that you
no longer do now?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
I tried a lot of different things, so like photography wise,
I shot macro stuff, which is like close up insects
and stuff like that, shot black and white street photography.
I traveled around a lot doing a lot of that
sort of stuff. Not that I don't do that. I
still do enjoy doing that. I don't share very much
of that, but I love to do it. Fashion bits,
(37:56):
a lot, more portraits, just anything and everything and anything
a camera and call it a thing. That's what I
was doing. And I did fall into in love with
street photography quite early, but then I moved away from
it because I didn't think it was really working for me,
but I kept circling back to it. So knowing that
I was constantly circling back was quite a good thing
(38:18):
for me. So I was like, maybe maybe there is
something in this. Well then after looking back on everything
that I had done, what I did notice was the color,
even though I shooting black and white as well, But
like the macro stuff, if I was to put one
of my images I produced now today next to one
of my images from like ten years ago of like
an insect on a leaf, it was the color that
(38:41):
Marrit that connects both of those things together. So I
found that quite interesting. But for stripping stuff away, it's
it's seeing stuff and going I don't like that. So
looking at a lot of a lot of artists work,
I think like with music, you know when you hear
something I like that, and you hear something else and go,
I absolutely cannot stand that. Please turn that off. So
(39:03):
I knew there was a lot of stuff that I
was turned off by. Maybe it was like photography books
you go along too, an exhibition or something like that.
I didn't mean I didn't appreciate it. It just meant I
knew that wasn't for me, and that wasn't the direction
that I was going. But then that meant it amplified
it when I did see something that I really enjoyed.
So I could go along and see an exhibition like
the work of will William Eggleston, for example, there's something
(39:28):
about that work that really resonates. There's the work of
who else, Joel Merrowitz that really resonates with me, and
then there's there's some other work that I do appreciate,
but it just doesn't quite connect in the same way,
and I think there's something about and again it's like
(39:49):
it's looking for those moments and that that one time
slot like in the in the August evenings, when I've
got that and it all works. That's what I was
looking for. And then I started leaning more in the
direction of what would work for me because I knew
what wasn't. So that led me down this sort of path.
And I'm still walking down that path now and it
continues to there's always that next step that it's slightly
(40:12):
out of sight and it's elludes you a little bit
until you've sort of fumbled your way in the dark
and you've you've figured out what the little tiny steps
are to make that next larger step.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Is there anything that sort of not aligned to the
stuff that you regularly do that you're itching to get
involved with, or anything that you think you might dip
your toes into creatively in terms of styles or so.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Portraiture is something I do keep circling back to. More
so recently, I want to produce more odd but I
don't because again, with the type of work that I produce,
I tend to be working more. I don't like to
interrupt people or scenes so much. But more recently I've
pushed myself to go up to people and ask can
(40:58):
I take your portrait? If they were if the person
feels like there's something there for me to explore. Again,
that's that's finding the way as well. I don't want
to just take a picture of everyone. Yeah, I've got
to be able to connect with Yeah, there's got to
be something there.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, it's the same.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's I mean, I'm very much like that. I've got
to want to do it. It's got to be fun.
So I have had people reach out to me like oh,
come on the podcast, Like no, I don't want I
don't want you on I've got to want someone on,
do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I think that's very important.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Creatively, you know, to know where you're heading and what
you're looking for and try new things as well.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
So I imagine like with like with music, you you know,
you come across creativity blocks and things like that. How
do you get you know, what are your tools for
getting past?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Oh? God? This is like it's one of the big things,
isn't it, Because we all go through it, and I
think the first time it really hit me, it hit
really hard, and I think a lot of people have
that first hit of it. God, I've been knocked the horse.
That's it. I'm done. So what I ended up doing was,
you know, that first year that it happened, as I, oh,
(42:07):
I to just pack all this in Now there will
be a brighter day. And I think it's that. I
think there's something to do with resilience there to it
and knowing that things will get better even though they
can't see the light. Just knowing that if it's the
bad times, there's only one way it's going to go,
and that's towards the good times. And likewise the other way,
like if it's really good, as we're leading into summer. Now,
(42:29):
I know it's going to get really good, but then
I know that's going to be followed by almost like
the winter drought can. But I think over the last
sort of five years, I've learned to just take the
pressure off so when I am and it's seasonal for
me because it's it's when I shoot. The type of
work that I want to produce is mostly done through
(42:50):
the summer period, so I know that winter I'm going
to still try and shoot. But I tempted myself to
know that what I'm going to shoot is and be crap.
Basically I might get lucky, I might off, but then
I'll just go do you know what, I don't need
to I don't need there's no I don't have to
produce an image for any and this is for me,
(43:11):
so it's personal to me. And then obviously I can
go back through everything that I have shot and I
use the time I try. I try to use the
time just still stay creative. And that's going to be
going through like all this stuff I have shot, and
I think there's an education through that as well that
I found that I do take myself and then revisit
stuff from like the year before or the year before that,
(43:32):
and then I dig out some of the archive and
have a look at that. And then sometimes you start
to find a bit of a thread of oh, I
didn't really notice that I was shooting this thing or
this way or looking at this particular project that way,
and then I see an entirely new avenue open up.
Then I'm inspired. Then I'm not back by the fact
I can't shoot anything in front of the three or
four months, which is a pain in the ass. But
(43:54):
it's more part.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Of the would them photos that do make out there
that you do share, would you they come from that
review phase? Or is it? Is it a mixture of both,
Like someone have come under review and some are just like,
oh my god, that that is perfect, you know the
second you're taking it and you will be sharing that.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I think there's a little bit of that. I think
sometimes when you know, you know, I'm sure as.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Soon as you start right earlier, like I said, it's
some some things fall out the sky and you like, oh,
we're onto something.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Other times it's a bit you know, a bit teased,
or like you know, like that you get you go
back and re visit an old idea and old chorus,
an old hook or and you know, you work on
that and it clicks. Yeah, Sometimes it's just not the
right time for that particular idea, but it will work
at another time.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, And I think that's part of it. But a
lot of the time, I use social media more as
a It's almost like a like a notepad. So I'll
put stuff on there'll be it'll be more of the
stuff that I'm producing at the moment, and the stuff
that I share I like, But it won't not every
image is going to be oh my god, that's ten
out of ten. It's going to be something I'm like,
(45:00):
I'm happy to share that it gives that flavor of
the direction that I'm heading in the stuff that I'm
really excited about. And this only happens so I'll get
a handful of images a year. Some years that it
might be one or maybe two, or maybe it's non
and then other years I might come away with maybe
five like images I'm really really excited about. But it's
(45:20):
took an entire year to produce, and those image images
will stay on my website. Those are the ones that
I want to put into portfolio and something that again,
I think this is an evolving process as well. I
would presume it to be the same as making an album,
but the album is taking ten years to make. And
you'll write a song and you go, oh my god,
it's the best thing I've ever written, and then three
(45:41):
months later, maybe a year, like, you think that was
absolutely rubbish. What was I thinking? But and then you
can trim it. You can trim it trimmer, and then
you get to a point where it's just this pure
essence of what you was really looking.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
For, pure interpretation of your exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
And once I think you start doing that, you can
then see you know, you can see the you know,
the wood for the trees kind of thing. You get
that idea of oh, that's that's it after and it's
almost like once you put that much time and effort
you can sit that. It's almost like that thirty six
thousand feet view you get. I can I can see
(46:21):
the path from here. Yeah, see what I was after,
I can see the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
It reaffirms what you what you're doing all for, doesn't it. Yeah,
I'm in that phase now, I told you earlier. I've
just got back from five days in the studio with
my band. Yeah, and like we've been together three years
and this is the first you know, we've recorded four
tracks as part of a record. It's the first piece
of work we've all done in three years where we're
just completely.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Blown off our feet by it.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
It's like everything we've done so far has culminated in
this piece of work we've just done. And it's such
a beautiful feeling because you know, listening to the song's back,
there's not a single thing I change. It's perfect in
our eyes, you know, and it is a beautiful feeling.
It's quite overwhelming, you know, Like the studio yesterday, it's
like we've all fallen in love with each other, do
you know what I mean? Over this piece of work.
(47:05):
It's like we're all madly in love with each other.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's what I missed, you know, that idea, like you've
got that team around. Yeah. I think that's the only
thing Like with photography is it's this type of photography anyway,
it's very solitary. Yeah, other than like if there's opportunities
to shoot with other people, but you don't. I don't
tend to do that and making my best work, I
need to be on my own but the idea that
you can be in a studio and you're all there
and you're feeling it as a collective.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Oh my god, that must be harmony, complete harmony.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I'm so excited to put this music out. I wish
I could just show everyone now. Yeah, but the lads
would kill me.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And the worst thing is, I don't even know when
we're going to share it, yeah, because we're still in
that like awkward planning stage where we're like not put
their final date down, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
But it's all coming.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
I just need to try not get too excited about
it in the meantime because it might flop.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
But you do know what, the fact that you are
excited about it, I think that's that's the thing right now.
You've got to live for today, haven't You've got to
You've got to be in that excitement.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
On the way home yesterday, I could have got hit
by a tractor, smiling all the way, I would not
have been bothered, like you know, with hit our stride
that So, what would you say to someone starting out
in photography is trying to find their style as someone
who seems to have really sort of I don't know,
(48:20):
you just tell when you look at your work mate,
You're just like, I don't know what it is, but
it's just your style, do you know what I mean?
I feel like, like music, you can hear a song
by a particular artist and you can immediately attribute it
to that person, And I feel like that with your work,
Like I could see I think I could probably see
one of your photos in the wild and think that's
probably dance, do you know, or if not, his dance
(48:41):
style at least And you know, this might be blowing
smoke up here, but Tom's convinced you've started your own
sub genre street photography.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
You know, he's genuinely convinced you have. Yeah, I mean wow, Yeah,
Say to someone who's trying to find their style.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Don't give up. I think a lot of people give up.
And I think the idea of trying to find a
style is almost like, oh, I'm going to put this
outfit on and that that is my style. It's not.
And I think just because you produce a certain I
think people mix up aesthetic with style a lot, and
I don't. I think it's hard to sort of put
(49:22):
your finger on it. Well, I think the idea of
trying to find like what your style is. It's your
natural default. So it's whatever your natural smell is, I
guess is your style, and you're not going to know
that until you go and shoot. And I think I
fell into the trap of doing it myself, where oh,
(49:43):
it needs to be like high contrast, or it needs
to be this, or it needs to be that. No.
I think the idea is you need to go and shoot,
and you need to go and make a lot of work.
And I think how to breasts on we mentioned him earlier,
so that your first ten thousand photos are going to
be crap before you can really start to understand what
you do it. And I think that's quite relevant within
(50:03):
the photography realm of trying to find out what you
were doing, what you're about and everything. You need to
go and shoot a lot, and it's probably amplified because
of digital now, because you know it was different with
filming the day. You couldn't rattle off a thousand shots
in like three seconds. So I think you do need
to go and shoot a lot, and I think you
need to spend the time. And I think that's the
allurea photography. It looks really easy from the outside, and yeah,
(50:24):
it is is pressing a button at the end of
the day. But that idea of finding style, I think
you've got to go out, put the work in and
then review it. And you've got to be really honest
with what it is that you're what's good, what's bad,
and what really excites you. And it is hard, but
not being phase so much or stirred by what's popular
(50:47):
in social media today. Almost produce the work for yourself.
And it sounds simple enough, but it's quite incredibly hard
to do. But if you was going to I mean,
if I was to give you a camera right now
and he was going to just walk out and I said,
you've got to produce ten images and these are going
in your house. What what you're going to take a
(51:10):
picture of? You know? Is that? You know?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
I mean, go for it.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah, I'd be looking at the marina. I'd be looking
at the dock tower. It quite derelict, so I'd probably
take a lot of, you know, pictures of that really
around here.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yeah, I mean, do you like that? Is that what
you'd want in? Is that your style for your house?
Is that what you'd want to steal in your walls?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Me personally? Yeah, missus? Yeah, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
Yeah, but no, no, I mean perfect anth to me,
you know, reflecting on what you've just said, if someone
had asked me the same but from my sort of discipline,
Ye'd be exactly the same. Put in the work. It
takes a lot of time, and I particularly like what
you said about social media. I think it's although it
is good to trying to tap into trends what happening,
(52:00):
kind of ride off the back of them. Don't just
be a cab and copy of other people, you know. Yeah,
I think I think I think it is hard, though,
isn't it, Because we all want to be seen and
seem to be doing the right thing. But the hardest
thing is doing the thing because you believe in it.
And that's I think if you put if you're playing
the long game, and hopefully the people are going to
(52:21):
be doing this, that they are going to play the
long game, that you have to do it for you,
and then the more you do it for you, the
more it's gonna it's going to open up a lot
of opportunities for you, because then you'll start to see
everything unfolding front on front of you, and you discover
what your style is going to be.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Yeah, yeah, you've got it. If it's not fun, you're
not going to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it,
you keep coming away with you like the music.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
Sometimes I have to text that back and go it's
getting a bit too much like work, you know what
I mean. We need to have a look at where
the fun is, you know, we need to get back
to the fun.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
You know, it's funny. I literally do that myself, Like
sometimes I will be sad or stood along the front.
I'm like, and I do and then you start scrolling,
don't you What am I doing? This isn't working I
need to do And then to switch it up, do
something different, get a coffee or summer, you know, just anything,
or only take pictures of the sky today, and then
(53:17):
you know, and that that sort of starts that creative
process of oh, okay, there's a limitation what we're going
to do. How I don't want the sky to look
you know, just random questions and I think sometimes that
sort of just bounce off the wall in some sort
of different direction that you can spark the idea of
oh yeah, maybe maybe that, but then what what what
(53:39):
does a picture of the sky look like for you?
You know, do you just one to photograph photograph the
clouds or I don't know, went down a weird rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Now, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
I don't know. Yeah, I think there is a part
of it. But then having this comes back to Eggleston.
I think he was again it's a famous I think
someone had asked him to photograph hit their wedding, and
apparently he wandered around the entire wedding snapping pictures of ashtrays,
which I think is brilliant. I think that's a brilliant
way to photograph a wedding. But merely in mind, this
is like a like a fine art a fine art photographer,
(54:16):
not a wedding photographer. Not And he just did his thing,
and he photographed ash trays, and apparently what he presented
to the bride and green at the end of the
or whenever he did the imageries just a series of
pictures of the clouds of the sky during their wedding day,
which I think is brilliant. I mean, it's probably not
what they was expecting, but for an answer to a
(54:37):
brief of photograph my wedding, they've done it in his style.
He's done it and he's done his thing. Wow, can
you imagine that if he's the only photographer in the wedding,
then you're maybe a little bit knackered for your your
line up of everyone.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
But get married this year. I know my missus would
be human. The photographer returned a bunch of photos.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
I mean, if you want some pictures of dropped ice creams,
I'll be your man.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
It's been great to have you Ma, I've really enjoyed
having you on.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Thank you. I've really enjoyed chatting. It's great.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
And if you've got anything coming up in the future
as well that you want to shout about, then then
come back on.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
We'll have a chat about it in a bit more detailed.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
I'm sure there's a lot speak to you about a
particular project or something like that. Yeah, it would be
really interesting to hear what you've got to say about
some work, a particular piece, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (55:29):
So we'll do it again if you want.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, I would love to absolutely And and.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
Well, everything you've spoken about today will get it linked
down below.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
If you like what you
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Heard, like and subscribe
I think there's like a magic or an energy to
it where you just have to cross, and if there's
post across, there's post across. And I think that was
one of them times where it was like that was
meant to happen, and if it didn't happen, if I
did decline that photo at that time, it's going to
happen at the second time. All of those things just
solve problems too easily for I think creatives. And I
think if we do have like a limited palette to
(00:22):
play with, but we have to get outside of our
comfort zone. We have to force ourselves to actually think,
and I think that is really important with being any
any creative industry. Really, it actually happens in front of
you and at this moment fulfills and you're just like,
oh my god, I almost predicted something was going to
happen here, and something did. I didn't know what it was,
but something happened. You're there to capture it. Amazing. How
(01:10):
are we doing?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Nice to meet?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, it's good. I'm glad to have been.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm glad we got acquainted for our good friend Tom
out now so.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We don't forget Ovi it'll be funny.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
We'll get a message.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Did you mention me?
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Do you mention me in the podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's probably already messaged us now I mentioned yet vibrating.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm sure the phone's going in the pocket.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
So let's get straight into it. I read online you've
described your photography work as a compulsion to create. So
what what what? What was that first compulsion that made
you pick up a camera?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's just that, like you know, that creative itch you know,
when you've got to make something. It's almost like if
you haven't done something for the day and you just
feel like something that's not quite sitting right, I get
a bit pent up like that. So it's like, if
I've not been and created something, then I do feel
a bit like.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I say on you all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I feel compelled to play music every day, even if
it's just like sitting at a piano for five minutes.
But yeah, same as you in that respect. But what
what first major pick up a camera? But what you know,
what made you think I'm going to become a photographer,
I'm going to start taking photos.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I don't think it was ever like a a stage
we think I'm going to be a photographer. It's sort
of just you just sort of like ease into it.
I think. So I found out pretty late, even though
my school at the time knew I was dyslexic. I
found out years later. But through doing that through the
whole like dyslexic journey, which is obviously a load of fun,
(02:39):
intic is going through school. It's just like that's spell
that's handy.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
How old was you only find out you?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
I think I was in the teens. Yeah, I think
my education systems knew when I was primary school, but yeah,
no one ever said it wasn't sort of really spoken about.
So I got to the point where I was pushed
I almost as a creative you are. I think there's
a lot of dyslexics are and creative creative industry, and
(03:07):
I just sort of fell into that as a as
an outlet because that's what I was drawn towards. Reading
and writing wasn't a strong suit of mine, being able
to go out and produce something like Originally I thought
I was going to be like some sort of artists
or something like that. The idea of creating and that
was really fulfilling, and I thought I was going to
like do graphics or like some sort of something within
(03:30):
the media industry and what they like drawing and that
as a kid, and I took that through one interested
in that. It's like through you know, when you didn't
make choices at school and getting to college and all that.
So I did that. I'm sure you probably went through
a similar path yourself, Like.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yes, similar, I mean I went to to Lindsay and
Claithorpees which was a performing arts school, so all our
options was kind of based around the arts. See a
very similar I did music production in media when I
was at school. I didn't know what I wanted to
do when I left school. It was just subjects I
found interesting. And anyway, they did the medium production because
I kind of saw them as kind of satellites for
(04:06):
my music in a way, and I thought they might
come in quite handy, like for all the things you
do alongside your music later on in life. But and
as I guess, I was coming handy, but not career wise,
only hobbywise. Yeah, I pretty much took my options to
progress my hobbits.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
But do you know what I think it was? Sometimes
there's that great crossover when when your career and your
hobbies do yeah, just collide.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, but I think I'm trying to build my hobbies
into a career now, which I never thought i'd do
in a sense.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You know, we're all working towards surely, like throughout life.
If we could literally just do our past time and
get paid for it, is like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
That's the goal.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, but I don't know, I kind of got career
drive them for a bit, if you know what I mean.
And again, I've never really want done what I want to
do for a career.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
So you think anyone does. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Some people tend to have it proper susty, don't.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I think they tend to be like lawise and things
that I'm going to be a doctor when a bit
square membering. We're just not coot for that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
But the idea of doing that just seems boring to me.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, just the idea of sitting down and doing spreadsheets
at the same time.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I'm happy to do I mean, my job, My job's
all right, you know, I'm happy to do that, But
I live for my hobbits.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I've got it right in that respect. But yeah, if I
could turn this into a job, that would be that'd
be great.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
It's looking like pretty much, it looks like it's there,
there's a shining table, someone's doing.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, just faking it. So back to photography, what was
something like the first photograph she was taking? What what
caught your eye?
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Is a putting photographer, I think when I started out,
so a lot of people don't realize that I've got
a big love for black and white photography. And that's
where it started because I went into college and the
option was I could take photography. This is going to
be a cool like phil subjects. And I got there.
I was like jumping into black and white photography. The
old days of the digital was just starting to come about,
(06:01):
but it wasn't really there yet, so it was black
and white film.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Spend a lot of time in the dark room at
college and institute.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
So I was in John Leggett in Scunthorpe, all.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Right, from originally originally yeah right, okay, I live here now, yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
So yeah, it's like black and white photography. So, like you,
the way we was taught it was he was looking
like the past masters and things. So it was all
a high contrast graphical stuff. Work of like CHARTI bress
on that sope if you know, who that is. Some
of that seems a bit alien to me.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Yeah, but yeah, it's like the it's the big hitters
that was in like the history, I mean working you go,
that looks like it could be a famous picture, that
type of thing, you know, the iconic type of pictures
that you'd sort of see and go, I think I've
seen that somewhere before.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
That was the type of work that we'd see and
got inspired by. So that was what really drove me
to begin with. And then I think you go through
his process of like trying to find your boys, and
I mean it's it's a long process.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
It's gone through you almost trying to replicate them in
the early days, and that was your inspiration, trying to
try to achieve the sort of shots and style that
they was doing.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Basically, Yeah, I think that's how we all learn into it.
I'm sure it's the same with music. Pick a guitar
and try and learn learning.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Other people's music. Yeah, people's hand positions, things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you did right. It seems like there's a lot of crossover. Yeah,
thinking about what I've been deliberating on it today, how
much crossover that might be, which we'll get into a
bit later on no doubt. Yeah, absolutely so your work
features I've had a look through obviously with you coming on,
and I've seen some of it before from Tom Sheby
and whatnot. But it's very sort of seaside centric, isn't it.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
It's just a little bit yeah centric.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
So what what is it about the seaside and what
makes that you know so far for you to shoot?
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Well? Number one, obviously it's on the doorstep, so that
is a massive bonus I've got. Yeah, yeah, I'm not
going miles out of my way to try and do
something because I mean, if it was going to be
hard work to go and do something, you wouldn't do
it every day? Would you? You maybe try to And
I mean maybe maybe you should do something that's hard
work to do. What something you could just literally fall
into and go and do. So the coast is on
(08:10):
a doorstep. But I think also there's the there's my
love for the coast as well, and I'm sure a
lot of people do love the sea side and that
and for me, I think there's like a lot wrapped
up in like childhood memories. It's all the good times,
and I think that's what a lot of people are
drawn to. It's being said before that I'm possibly like
chasing my childhood. It's that idea that's there's something to
(08:33):
discover there and it's probably like a bit of me.
I'm almost on that path of self discovering myself, like
what is it that I'm really looking for? And it
gets really deep and I mean there's the surface level,
which is I'm taking sometimes pretty sometimes something grotesque. I mean,
to be an overflowing bin is quite interesting, you know,
(08:54):
it's loves that it's just weird. But then there's beautiful
scenes of like sunset twilight on the beach where it
just looks magical and everything in between that.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
So I've read online that you described sort of that
seaside location as a social mixing part. Yeah, yeah, which
it is. It truly is it is. You know, it's
it's a good way to describe it, and it really is.
But is there any sort of moments of interactions that's
you know, really really sort of solidified that concept for
you that it is a social mixing part because you
(09:27):
must meet some characters when you're out and out and
about doing your.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Work every day. Yeah, there's always a character. But I
think that's the thing. I think this is what draws
me back, and it's drawn me back for almost a
decade now that you can walk in. I mean Cleethorps
itself is just a backdrop for me. It's a beautiful backdrop.
It's got that sort of age putina to it where
everything's you know, it's some of the it's falling to pieces,
but that's part of the charm.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
I find Cleethorpes and other similar seaside times like Blackballscarb
but things like that, so quintessentially English.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
That's a lot of other places I've lost.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But I think some of that is the fact that
there's not as much money pumped into it, so it
has to stretch a little bit further. And then you've
got the charm of things like hand painted signs and
things still around from what forty fifty years ago that
have still being maintained today rather than being replaced by
just these plastic horrible neon the not even neon, but
(10:21):
you know what I mean that that disposable stuff that
is just gonna aid with the sun and then one
year later it just looks horrible. So I think you've
got that. But then the whole mixing pot. You've got
so many people that turn up here. Literally the train station,
as you know, is opposite that fair ground, so straight
off the trains and pouring straight onto the beach. But
(10:43):
you've got that many different people descending.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Very very popular tourist destination and incredibly popular, very very popular.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Even just hearing all the accents, obviously probably we don't
hear it as much, but when I go anywhere else
in the country, God, you're not God, John Rvan. Yeah,
you definitely. You definitely hear a lot, and there's always
and there's a lot of people as well. With it
being in the north, everyone seems very friendly. So if
you get anyone from further north, they're quite interesting what
(11:14):
you're doing with a camera or what you're doing down here,
and you get them into those conversations. You get to
meet people and have those conversations about who they are,
where they're from, and what they're up to on that
particular day.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's a lot of the enjoyment.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Who is I think meeting people? Yeah, yeah, definitely, I
mean sometimes there's times where you don't actually go and interact.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Well, would you say that knowing that there could be
one of them interactions every time you go out and
photograph the same location, would you do you think that
kind of motivates you in a sense to keep going
back and shooing the same locations.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, I think so, because I think there's it's always
interesting and if you can find someone and have like
a genuine connection with them and you've got something to
actually talk to them about. Yeah, I mean who doesn't
want that. I mean we're all searching for a connection
at the end of the day out we yea that
it's going to be so yeah, I mean it's it's
it really is interesting meeting new people, finding out what
(12:06):
their stories are and where they're from and what they're
up to. Maybe it's just because I'm a little bit nosy,
there's a little bit of that. You know, you just
want to go and stick, you know what you're.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Preaching for the choir.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
I'm trying to chat to people for a little bit
and I'm trying to pick people's brains.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Should swap for a'll give you a camera rappish suppish? Yeah?
Mate on board?
Speaker 3 (12:28):
You think I'd have had some sort of like acum
in with the camera, you know, going into a podcasting project,
especially video podcasting project. You know, audio is not too bad,
but I ain't got a clue mat Honestly, he had
the camera sably of day. There was like some zebra
lines on the screen. I thought it was it was
a gonna mate. I thought that was the end of
the episode. The camera is dead, let's get a new one.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So what what your optimal shooting conditions?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Dan? Absolutely? Optimum. Yeah, it's very precise for me. I'm
a little bit like particular on this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah, I mean I gauge that line, and that's why
I thought i'd get you to go into it a
little bit.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
So I'm shooting all sorts of different conditions. There's always
something that's going on. But I would say optimum is
late August is the time or time of the year anyway,
probably just after sunset, so you're looking like twilight into
blue hour, a little bit of haze, no clouds, completely
(13:31):
blue sky. Is absolutely There's just something about that quality
of light that you get at that time of the day,
at that time of the year. It's almost like there's
the dust is settling, like something's happened. It's just that
moment where there's a little bit of like electric in
the air, you know, just before the lights turn on,
it's that moment and you've got about half an hour,
and it tends to be the last few weekends of August,
(13:54):
so I've wait all year for literally a few hours
worth of shooting. That will be probably the time that
I make most of my images that I would consider
I'm really happy and successful.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Interesting, there's just that one window and a year.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
But I think some of that is it Maybe it's
down to like my thought process as well. But I
think there's something like I suppose it's like music and
it if you hear something, you go yes, yeah, yeah,
I just you just know instantly, like yes. I think
it's a little bit like that, and I think this
is where maybe there is a crossover with the music
and you can just just tune into my God, that's
(14:33):
exactly what I need. And I think when I see
the lights and the conditions in that end of day,
it's that sort of like you're just waiting for something
to happen, like you don't want the day to end,
and it's that sort of magic at the end of summer,
you know, like the as a kid, you don't want
the summer holidays to ever end, do you. Yeah, I
think it's that you're hanging on to the last that
you're going to get sent to bed soon, and hanging
(14:55):
on till the end day. You've got to be absolutely
not in the last half an hour. And that's the
pictures that I'm going to be looking for, because guaranteed
there'd be some kid that's just come out of the sea,
the parents have dried them off and got the clothes on.
Two seconds later you turn away and they are back
in the water. That's what I'm looking for. Yeah, it's such.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
A used location as well in it Like I don't
I can't remember whether it was this Christmas just gone
on the one before we went. I was living in
Cleethorpes near to the front, so we went for a
walk on Christmas Day along the beach and there was
kids playing on the beach.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
On Christmas Day. You know, it's even on Christmas Day
is being used, so.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
There's something quite special about that. Yeah, that's probably more
for the locals. We get a lot of the locals
down here, don't we all times of the year when
well around here. Yeah, I guess. I guess being out
most of the year as well, I get to see them,
see you spot who's who and who's going to be
the locals and then who's the tourists that are coming
in during the summer. And yeah, that's quite an interesting
(15:52):
divide as well.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
So when I was looking at your work, when I
was looking at your photos, that the feeling I got
from looking at them was like, it looks like you've
got some sort of watching You've managed to sort of
pause time, you know, and you've really managed to capture
that second in time. Is that intentional?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Are you looking for those shots when you're when you're
when you're taking them, or is it something about in
your review process, like they're the shots that stand out
to you and they're the ones you you want to publish.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I think I think it's a little bit of both.
I mean, you want to almost go no, i'ant intentionally
to do every single picture, and there is there is
ones that are of course are intentional like that, but
then there's stuff that I would just shoot that's more
of a gut reaction. So it's almost like a bit
of a feeling that you know something's going to happen,
or you get a sense of something that's going on
(16:43):
in the background or something around you, and you just
lean into that a.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Little bit, so that you're always looking for a moment.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
You're always sort of yeah, but sometimes what's going on
around you and just waiting for that perfect sort of
moment to present itself.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah. But then there's sometimes where you don't really realize
it's going to happen, Like you have a feeling about something,
you don't know what's going to happen, you know, like
when it's almost like a sixth sense, like I knew
that was going to happen that thing, but I didn't
know exactly what it was, but I knew there was
someone going to do something around here because there's a
bit of a buzz, there's a bit of an energy
about it. It's I don't know, it's a weird thing.
(17:18):
And I think the more time you spend out on
the streets photographing, and like photographers will resonate with us,
I think you do get a bit of a sixth
sense for something when moments are starting to line up,
and sometimes they come into it actually happens in front
of you and this moment fulfills and you're just like,
(17:38):
oh my god, I almost predicted something was going to
happen here, and something did. I didn't know what it was,
but something happened and you're there to capture it. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Just a universal line for that one too.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
And you know what, the more you watch and the
more you become aware, the more that happens. It's really weird.
It really happens often.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Now you can never.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Quite you never can predict it. You just have to
be you have to be like just perceptive to it.
I think it's probably the best way to sort of
describe it.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
You know, I can relate to that because the songs
that you're right as a musician, but then there's songs
that are just delivered to you, do you know what
I mean, Like the songs where you really have to
spend weeks working at them and writing and then the
songs just fall out the sky.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
And it sounds like a similar situation with what you're describing,
Like there's some things you work at, but then there's
moments are just a line and you get the perfect result.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. There is the
times when you will just walk along and get on
that's just perfect. It's just a beautiful moment, and there
will be those little nuggets of moments where you're just thinking,
oh my god, that's so just poignant. I don't know
what it is, but there might just be maybe a
person walking down the street and then maybe just there's
(18:47):
an energy about them something like that, and you just
have to photograph that one little moment, and that is
it just presents itself quite innocently to you, and it's
just a case of oh, okay, that's and capture it.
But then I think there's times when you just have
to almost and it's not like a trigger happy thing,
but it's maybe more a series of maybe four or
(19:08):
five frames and just teasing something out of a situation.
And there's everything in between. So yeah, I think it's
a case of just being aware that there's moments happening
all the time and if you get really lucky and
you're there enough and you're receptive and these are words
that being echoed by many a photographer that you can
come away with absolute gold at the end of the year.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
And it's like you said, but the more you do it,
the more of them opportunities that present themselves. And it's
the same with like songwriting, like they say, the ratio is,
you knowever, every ten songs you write, any one of
them is a single, you know, so that the more
songs you write, the more good songs you're gonna you know,
end up with.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, resonates.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
But street photography is quite an intimate style of photography,
isn't it. How do you navigate that sort of fine
line between being observing and being intrusive, Because for someone
like myself, I think that, you know, I don't think
I've ever been perhaps so to say.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So I don't know what the feeling would be like
for myself. I wouldn't personally mind, I don't think, but
i'd get what they're doing it for.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But I can imagine some people must be like, fuck
you do it?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And you do get that. And I think there's a
little bit of intuition over the years where you do
get a bit of a sense of how one might react.
And maybe it's just through like reading body language and
what they're up to. And I couldn't exactly tell you,
but again, maybe it's just more of a sense or
intuition about how someone might Yeah, you know, you just
sort of get a good vibe or a bad vibe
(20:39):
from someone. I think there's a little bit of that,
But a lot of the time, the way that I work,
especially with our smaller camera, it's less intrusive and I
don't always shoot in a way that looks deliberate. So
a lot of the time the people that are in
the frames that I'm making the pictures of don't realize
that I'm actually photographing them, And I don't always want
(20:59):
to them know, because I don't want to interrupt their
if it's a family moment, for example, I don't want
to interrupt their day.
Speaker 3 (21:05):
And I guess that's that like the second someone puts
like for me, the second someone puts a camera on me,
I instinctively feel.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Odd, do you know what I mean? Yeah, And I
guess that take away from the magic.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
We are That's exactly it. There's again, it's there's another
phrase for it, and it's called bruising the scene. I mean,
if you got I mean, you might intentionally do it.
You might be looking for that reaction. And I know
people that do work like that, okay, And sometimes I
will go up to people and say I am having
that interaction and it might be a chance for a
portrait at that point, less so that I would pose
them because as soon as, like you say, they become
(21:37):
more awkward the camera, and I want that natural kind
of look. But again, I'm not looking for anything that
takes away from them all. What I want to do
is tell their story from a point of view of
the positive. And I know a lot of photographers out there,
especially people are starting that look for the negative all
the time, and I really can't get across like strong enough.
You don't have to do that. You can celeb things.
(22:00):
And that's what I really want to do with my work.
I want to celebrate life and enjoyment and everything else,
and I might shoot as much as I can do.
The moments that I want to share are the the
moments of the best ones are pure joy, just that
excitement and moments where people are enjoying themselves and having
fun and you know, the best parts of the day,
the best parts of your life, And that's what I'm
(22:20):
gonna capture.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
You did, right though people often lean into the negative.
Same with anything in it YouTube podcasting, like people want clicks,
don't there, people want stuff that's provocative down there. Everyone's
leaning into it. So when you're shooting these subjects, do
you ever, like I said, you don't want to bruise
(22:44):
the scene as you put it? But is there ever
do you ever approach your subjects afterwards, like you know,
you've taken a beautiful photo and then you've gone and
spoken to them and actually let them know that you've
taken it.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Do you ever do that? Do you ever to face
with your subjects and share what you're working things?
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah? Absolutely, Again, it depends what the situation is and
who it is and what they're doing. It might not
call for it, but again it's just making that judgment
at the time. But say I am photographing on the
street and I capture somebody and then after I've taken
the picture then they've realized. Then I would approach them
and say, hey, I've just taken this picture of you.
(23:21):
Here's the reason why. This is who I am, this
is what I'm about, And I'm quite happy being able
to talk to somebody and just give them a context
of what it is I'm doing. So I'm not just
like this weirdo that's walking up and down the sea
for all the time. I mean, in which I do
admit I am a weirder walking up. So there is
that side of it where I do go up to
people and say, hey, look, I've just done this, this
(23:42):
is the picture, and nine times out of ten it's
received really well. Yeah, and then it'll be a case
of can I get that picture off you I'd love it,
or can you send me? And yeah, of course, and
it'll just be a couple of days. Do they retouching
and everything or editing what ever I'm going to do
with the pictures and get that across to them. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
So the reason asses I saw someone on YouTube who's
like taking portraits of people in the street. But then
he like kind of follows him for a little bit
and he's got this little personal printer on him and
he prints the shot out and gives it to them,
and it's such a heartwarming reaction every single one he does,
Like he just surprises them with this portrait printing portrait
of him and they're just it's just joy.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
You know. I had a similar experience.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
So I was in Japan last year and this guy, well,
actually it was my honeymoon, so it was a delayed honeymoon.
We've planned to go o the year before, and I
hadn't actually planned it, so we never actually made it
out there, but we replanned it went across the cherry blossom,
which was amazing. And we was in Asaka at the time,
(24:43):
and this guy just wandered up to me and he
had a camera around his neck and he was signing
towards me as if he wanted to take my picture
and he would give us the picture. But I wrongly
assumed at the time he was trying to charge for pictures.
And I was like, oh, no, no, no, So I've
got my own camera, I'll take a picture and don't
worry about it. And he's quite pretty persistent with this,
(25:05):
and I looked at his camera. I realized that he'd
got something quite bespoken, unique and expensive, so I thought,
maybe he's not making money out this seems more of
a passion thing. So I said, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah,
and give him a thumbs up and everything. And he
took this picture and it was on a polaroid back
on a medium format camera. That might not mean a lot,
but it was something that was a bit beautiful for
(25:26):
me to see. I was like, oh, that's a nice
bit of kit you've got there. Anyway, he took a
couple of frames, and his whole thing was that he
took one as a portrait Me and jem my wife
just stood next to each other, one for us and
one for him, and that was part of his project.
So we've got this beautiful picture of us to on
our honeymoon, taken on this really nice passive blood camera,
(25:48):
polaroid back on it, and yeah, it's just a nice moment.
And then randomly, so this was in the middle of Asaka,
in a massive city in Japan. A few days later,
we'd moved on and gone to Kyoto. I was wandering
around this temple and just randomly bumped into this guy again.
(26:08):
But this is the stuff, you know what I'm talking about,
these like chance coincidences. This is the type of stuff
that just seems to happen. I think there's like a
magic or an energy to it where you just pass
a cross and if there's post across, there's post across.
And I think that was one of them times where
it was like that was meant to happen, and if
it didn't happen, if I did decline that photo at
that time, it was going to happen. At the second time.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
So does does he have an Instagram or anything like
that anywhere? Because I'll link it. That's why I'm getting
I actually link it so people can check it out.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah, absolutely, he's got it. I will have to dig
it out because I cannot remember what the account.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Was, but you'll be down there anyway. Nice one. So
you just touched on kitter Bet So you like to
shoot the like right?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yeah, I am a like a fanboy.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You are known for it, but I've read online that
you you admire sort of the limited setup of AKA.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
Sure, do you feel like having so unlimited options on
a camera can can hinder your creativity or personally not
for anyone else, But.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I think if you've got all options at all times,
it is like decision paralysis. And I'm sure that's the
same for like a lot of disciplines, no matter what
you're doing. So I think having like the limitations of
I can only do this, this and this, it does
sometimes it can be a hindrance, don't get me wrong,
But the hindrance then forces you to come up with
(27:28):
a creative solution to work around that problem. That creative
solution often leads to something far greater. Than what the
option would have been if I'd just put I've got
an option on the camera that does that for me,
or it swaps over, or it's got incredible high ISO
or something like that. That's all of those things just
solve problems too easily for I think creatives, and I
(27:51):
think if we do have like a limited palette to
play with, that we have to get outside of our
comfort zone. We have to force ourselves to actually think.
And I think that is really important within any any
creative industry really, but more so recently, I've challenged myself
to shoot with a camera. It's an old Lika, it's
(28:11):
a digital one. I do shoot with film as well,
but it's a digital M nine. For anyone that knows
with a very limited ISO rage it means it's not
particularly sensitive to like you pretty much have to treat
it like film, and I like to shoot into blue hour,
which means there's not much light around. Modern cameras are
brilliant at that because they've got low light sensitivity and
(28:32):
that you can make images pretty much in the dark.
It's almost like having night vision goggles on this thing.
Not a chance, You've got to be really careful. But
the thing is with that is I can shoot it
on a really low ISO, so I didn't get all noisy,
you know, goes all grainy and everything. I can have
a lean into that and that can be part of
the esthetic, which I quite like. All what I can
(28:52):
do is go in the other directions where I've got to.
I'll keep the ISO low, which means can be a
really clean, nice looking image, but I'll have to slowe
down the shutter, which means there's gonna be motion blur.
Now most people don't want that because you don't get
sharp pictures.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's quite cool, though I don't know when it's as
well exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
So that's what I'm really interested in, So leaning into
that direction of well, I'm going to capture the movement
of things, or I'm going to pan the camera, or
I'm going to do something that leads to something new.
And I did a series a few years ago I
don't have on my website at the moment taking it off,
but basically it was a series of abstract seescapes through
winter because I was bored and had nothing else and
(29:30):
there was not really many subjects to photograph, so I
went down to the sea and I panned in these
quite bizarre sea scapes, which is it was just a
creative expression from me. But I produced this work and
I've done something again recently again because of the limitations
of the camera and I just you know, you just
have that creative itch. I'm was going to do something
different to mix it up, and I produced something which
(29:51):
I find quite beautiful and it's unlike anything I've shared
in a long time. But then the audience as well
as reacted really positive from it, and I think it's
that unknown of I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't expecting
to make that. On the night, it just ticked a
box for me because I needed to make I wanted
to make something that I wanted to and then it
(30:15):
just it just worked. It all all the stars aligned
and I produced an image that you know, it really
really resonated with me and the audience as well.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
So jamming on a camera and exactly that, exactly that.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Yeah, when you're saying, I was like, it's just jamming
on a camera, It's just going out there jamming too.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
What happens.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah, I think that's what A lot of the time,
I think that's what it is. I think a lot
of like street photography especially, I think it's just one
worst jamming slash. I think the whole abstract idea that
probably the parallel is going to be like jazz music.
I think it's that sort of anything could happen. It
could just be a random like Sacks that's just going
(30:52):
off in this corner, or all of a sudden, someone's
just jumped on a piano and just mashing the keys,
and it's just it. But it's sometimes somehow it all
slots together and sounds right. That that I think is
when street photography works well, when you're in tune to
it and you're in the moment and in the flow,
and we all get into.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
That sort of flow stay yeah, flow stage.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Once you get yeah, once we hit that, I mean,
all of a sudden, it's it's twilight and where's the
whole day gone.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
I don't know what it is about street photography. I wouldn't
say I've ever been like hugely into photography. I used
to do a little bit with Tom, you know a
few years ago. I had you know, a sal and
we used to go out and Tom really really got
into it, whereas I kind of didn't, you know, he
just carried on and I never did. But but there
was there was that photographer Vivian Mayer.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Who have you heard of her? I have, yeah, yeah,
been for the listeners.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Basically a guy bought some boxes of old film, didn't
a from a car boot sale or and a state
sail or something, and there was just thousands and thousands
of photos on there, but the most perfect street photography.
And I found I found her really interested in her works,
which was never shown. You know, there was all putting boxers.
And she passed away and there was never seen. She's
become popular since she's passed away, hasn't she.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
It's such a shame. It really is such a shame.
And there is people out and I've I've got friends
and one recently that I've encouraged to share his work,
and his idea was, I will share it when it's
it's sort ready. And I get that, I do get that.
But he was sat on beautiful work and I could see,
I could see the potential for growth. So I pleaded
(32:30):
with him to start putting some of his work out there,
not just not just for to build an audience. It
wasn't that wasn't the intention, but to allow us to
see it, and also so that I could see some
of the stuff that he was producing as well. Because
he was he gets a lot of it quite hidden,
which I think was a shame. But now he's starting
to put it out into the world and show what
(32:51):
he is capable of making, and I think that spurred
him on to produce more as well.
Speaker 5 (32:54):
Yeah, because it's a lot bit of self belief as
he shoots a lot of street photography as well, portraits,
random little moments and things like that.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
It's beautiful stuff.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
I think what's so good about that Vivia May's work
is I've got one similar home. Mine's a Kodak Duo flex,
like a film camera where you wear around your neck
and you look down into the viewfinder. And she, I
know she used one of them, and I think because
she was never pointing a camera from her face to
someone else's face, I think she just really managed to
(33:28):
capture that raw emotion and it's in some of the
scenery she's taken pooes of. It's amazing. It's like America
in the fifties. You know, there's like cadillacs about and
just just looks great. But there's there's something about the
emotion you see in street photography that really draws me
in anyway, do.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
You know what That's what I find. It's interesting. I
think a lot of people forget about the magic of time. Basically, Oh,
I wish it was how it was in the fifties,
But the thing is that you've got today. The thing
about today is in fifty years time a great it's
can look amazing and it's going to have that fine
linage to it. Yeah, to shoot the I've got friends
(34:06):
that have said, I hate it when there's everyone's just
on the phones. You know, everyone's just looking down all
the time. I shoot that just because it doesn't look
great right now because it's your every day. What's the
future holding? You know, are we going to have phones
in our hands in forty fifty years or is it
just gonna be implanted into our heads? God, I mean
I don't want that, but yeah, it could happen. It
(34:27):
will happen.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Well, I mean I've got a Via headset and i'd
have the implant.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Just download your thoughts straight into Instagram.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, it really is good fun, which leads me nicely,
like into this question. So photography is so accessible now,
everyone's got a really high quality camera in the pocket. Yeah,
like you ever cognizant of that? That, Like people can
take really good photos with not with not a lot
of skill or on money. I suppose is really you know,
(35:00):
it's really is a but what are you doing to
sort of stay in front of that curve? Or do
you just think I'm going to stay true to what
I do and if it works, it works.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
If it doesn't, then.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I think it is that. And but I think the
whole thing with photography, Yeah, the gear matters to a
certain extent, but that's like saying I've got an auto
tuner on my guitar, or my guitar can spec out
this pre programmed song or keyboard probably more than a guitar.
But I'm sure if you could do that. Yeah, But
(35:30):
then I mean, how many albums have you bought recently
that was just a computer program? You buy the artist,
don't you. You don't buy that. So I think the
idea that everyone's got equal technology, I think that's great.
I think that levels the playing field. I think it
makes the barrier for entry particularly low, so you know,
(35:51):
there is no hierarchy in it. And I think there's
the thing about Martin Pass said it that his work
is both high and like low art at the same time,
which I think think it's fantastic depending on what the
situation is. You know, it can be anything and everything
and everyone can now shoot. The problem is what do
you point the camera at? And this is where a
(36:13):
lot of people fall down. I mean I fell down
for probably like fifteen years not understanding what to do
with I got the idea of how the camera works
and everything. That's brilliant, but now what just because you
can take a picture of the blurry background, that's not
that's technically that's good, yeah, but what does that mean
what you're trying to say with that? And I think
(36:33):
that's where a lot of people do stumble or it
takes a long time to get into it. And there
is people out there that obviously just step into a
day one and go, I've got my vision, I know
what I need to i know what my sound is,
I know what my vision is, I know how it's
going to be. They're can make it be and the
short the short falls potentially, how how do I do
that technically? If you've got the technical down and you've
(36:56):
got the vision down, then oh, you're onto a winter,
are you. Yeah. I think it's a case of just
figuring out where you're going with stuff, what your taste is,
what you like. I think I came into it backwards.
I started to strip things and whales I know I
don't like, which was quite interesting for me. If I
don't like that and I don't like that, then maybe
(37:17):
that's the way I go. And then it's that sort
of like fumbling a lot bit in the dark, and
so you start what.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Was that process for you? Then, you know, stripping things away?
So I think, what was you doing that that you
no longer do now?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
I tried a lot of different things, so like photography wise,
I shot macro stuff, which is like close up insects
and stuff like that, shot black and white street photography.
I traveled around a lot doing a lot of that
sort of stuff. Not that I don't do that. I
still do enjoy doing that. I don't share very much
of that, but I love to do it. Fashion bits,
(37:56):
a lot, more portraits, just anything and everything and anything
a camera and call it a thing. That's what I
was doing. And I did fall into in love with
street photography quite early, but then I moved away from
it because I didn't think it was really working for me,
but I kept circling back to it. So knowing that
I was constantly circling back was quite a good thing
(38:18):
for me. So I was like, maybe maybe there is
something in this. Well then after looking back on everything
that I had done, what I did notice was the color,
even though I shooting black and white as well, But
like the macro stuff, if I was to put one
of my images I produced now today next to one
of my images from like ten years ago of like
an insect on a leaf, it was the color that
(38:41):
Marrit that connects both of those things together. So I
found that quite interesting. But for stripping stuff away, it's
it's seeing stuff and going I don't like that. So
looking at a lot of a lot of artists work,
I think like with music, you know when you hear
something I like that, and you hear something else and go,
I absolutely cannot stand that. Please turn that off. So
(39:03):
I knew there was a lot of stuff that I
was turned off by. Maybe it was like photography books
you go along too, an exhibition or something like that.
I didn't mean I didn't appreciate it. It just meant I
knew that wasn't for me, and that wasn't the direction
that I was going. But then that meant it amplified
it when I did see something that I really enjoyed.
So I could go along and see an exhibition like
the work of will William Eggleston, for example, there's something
(39:28):
about that work that really resonates. There's the work of
who else, Joel Merrowitz that really resonates with me, and
then there's there's some other work that I do appreciate,
but it just doesn't quite connect in the same way,
and I think there's something about and again it's like
(39:49):
it's looking for those moments and that that one time
slot like in the in the August evenings, when I've
got that and it all works. That's what I was
looking for. And then I started leaning more in the
direction of what would work for me because I knew
what wasn't. So that led me down this sort of path.
And I'm still walking down that path now and it
continues to there's always that next step that it's slightly
(40:12):
out of sight and it's elludes you a little bit
until you've sort of fumbled your way in the dark
and you've you've figured out what the little tiny steps
are to make that next larger step.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Is there anything that sort of not aligned to the
stuff that you regularly do that you're itching to get
involved with, or anything that you think you might dip
your toes into creatively in terms of styles or so.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Portraiture is something I do keep circling back to. More
so recently, I want to produce more odd but I
don't because again, with the type of work that I produce,
I tend to be working more. I don't like to
interrupt people or scenes so much. But more recently I've
pushed myself to go up to people and ask can
(40:58):
I take your portrait? If they were if the person
feels like there's something there for me to explore. Again,
that's that's finding the way as well. I don't want
to just take a picture of everyone. Yeah, I've got
to be able to connect with Yeah, there's got to
be something there.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, it's the same.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
It's I mean, I'm very much like that. I've got
to want to do it. It's got to be fun.
So I have had people reach out to me like oh,
come on the podcast, Like no, I don't want I
don't want you on I've got to want someone on,
do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (41:26):
I think that's very important.
Speaker 3 (41:29):
Creatively, you know, to know where you're heading and what
you're looking for and try new things as well.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
So I imagine like with like with music, you you know,
you come across creativity blocks and things like that. How
do you get you know, what are your tools for
getting past?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Oh? God? This is like it's one of the big things,
isn't it, Because we all go through it, and I
think the first time it really hit me, it hit
really hard, and I think a lot of people have
that first hit of it. God, I've been knocked the horse.
That's it. I'm done. So what I ended up doing was,
you know, that first year that it happened, as I, oh,
(42:07):
I to just pack all this in Now there will
be a brighter day. And I think it's that. I
think there's something to do with resilience there to it
and knowing that things will get better even though they
can't see the light. Just knowing that if it's the
bad times, there's only one way it's going to go,
and that's towards the good times. And likewise the other way,
like if it's really good, as we're leading into summer. Now,
(42:29):
I know it's going to get really good, but then
I know that's going to be followed by almost like
the winter drought can. But I think over the last
sort of five years, I've learned to just take the
pressure off so when I am and it's seasonal for
me because it's it's when I shoot. The type of
work that I want to produce is mostly done through
(42:50):
the summer period, so I know that winter I'm going
to still try and shoot. But I tempted myself to
know that what I'm going to shoot is and be crap.
Basically I might get lucky, I might off, but then
I'll just go do you know what, I don't need
to I don't need there's no I don't have to
produce an image for any and this is for me,
(43:11):
so it's personal to me. And then obviously I can
go back through everything that I have shot and I
use the time I try. I try to use the
time just still stay creative. And that's going to be
going through like all this stuff I have shot, and
I think there's an education through that as well that
I found that I do take myself and then revisit
stuff from like the year before or the year before that,
(43:32):
and then I dig out some of the archive and
have a look at that. And then sometimes you start
to find a bit of a thread of oh, I
didn't really notice that I was shooting this thing or
this way or looking at this particular project that way,
and then I see an entirely new avenue open up.
Then I'm inspired. Then I'm not back by the fact
I can't shoot anything in front of the three or
four months, which is a pain in the ass. But
(43:54):
it's more part.
Speaker 3 (43:55):
Of the would them photos that do make out there
that you do share, would you they come from that
review phase? Or is it? Is it a mixture of both,
Like someone have come under review and some are just like,
oh my god, that that is perfect, you know the
second you're taking it and you will be sharing that.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I think there's a little bit of that. I think
sometimes when you know, you know, I'm sure as.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Soon as you start right earlier, like I said, it's
some some things fall out the sky and you like, oh,
we're onto something.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Other times it's a bit you know, a bit teased,
or like you know, like that you get you go
back and re visit an old idea and old chorus,
an old hook or and you know, you work on
that and it clicks. Yeah, Sometimes it's just not the
right time for that particular idea, but it will work
at another time.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, And I think that's part of it. But a
lot of the time, I use social media more as
a It's almost like a like a notepad. So I'll
put stuff on there'll be it'll be more of the
stuff that I'm producing at the moment, and the stuff
that I share I like, But it won't not every
image is going to be oh my god, that's ten
out of ten. It's going to be something I'm like,
(45:00):
I'm happy to share that it gives that flavor of
the direction that I'm heading in the stuff that I'm
really excited about. And this only happens so I'll get
a handful of images a year. Some years that it
might be one or maybe two, or maybe it's non
and then other years I might come away with maybe
five like images I'm really really excited about. But it's
(45:20):
took an entire year to produce, and those image images
will stay on my website. Those are the ones that
I want to put into portfolio and something that again,
I think this is an evolving process as well. I
would presume it to be the same as making an album,
but the album is taking ten years to make. And
you'll write a song and you go, oh my god,
it's the best thing I've ever written, and then three
(45:41):
months later, maybe a year, like, you think that was
absolutely rubbish. What was I thinking? But and then you
can trim it. You can trim it trimmer, and then
you get to a point where it's just this pure
essence of what you was really looking.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
For, pure interpretation of your exactly.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
And once I think you start doing that, you can
then see you know, you can see the you know,
the wood for the trees kind of thing. You get
that idea of oh, that's that's it after and it's
almost like once you put that much time and effort
you can sit that. It's almost like that thirty six
thousand feet view you get. I can I can see
(46:21):
the path from here. Yeah, see what I was after,
I can see the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
It reaffirms what you what you're doing all for, doesn't it. Yeah,
I'm in that phase now, I told you earlier. I've
just got back from five days in the studio with
my band. Yeah, and like we've been together three years
and this is the first you know, we've recorded four
tracks as part of a record. It's the first piece
of work we've all done in three years where we're
just completely.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Blown off our feet by it.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
It's like everything we've done so far has culminated in
this piece of work we've just done. And it's such
a beautiful feeling because you know, listening to the song's back,
there's not a single thing I change. It's perfect in
our eyes, you know, and it is a beautiful feeling.
It's quite overwhelming, you know, Like the studio yesterday, it's
like we've all fallen in love with each other, do
you know what I mean? Over this piece of work.
(47:05):
It's like we're all madly in love with each other.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
That's what I missed, you know, that idea, like you've
got that team around. Yeah. I think that's the only
thing Like with photography is it's this type of photography anyway,
it's very solitary. Yeah, other than like if there's opportunities
to shoot with other people, but you don't. I don't
tend to do that and making my best work, I
need to be on my own but the idea that
you can be in a studio and you're all there
and you're feeling it as a collective.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Oh my god, that must be harmony, complete harmony.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I'm so excited to put this music out. I wish
I could just show everyone now. Yeah, but the lads
would kill me.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
And the worst thing is, I don't even know when
we're going to share it, yeah, because we're still in
that like awkward planning stage where we're like not put
their final date down, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
But it's all coming.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
I just need to try not get too excited about
it in the meantime because it might flop.
Speaker 1 (47:51):
But you do know what, the fact that you are
excited about it, I think that's that's the thing right now.
You've got to live for today, haven't You've got to
You've got to be in that excitement.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
On the way home yesterday, I could have got hit
by a tractor, smiling all the way, I would not
have been bothered, like you know, with hit our stride
that So, what would you say to someone starting out
in photography is trying to find their style as someone
who seems to have really sort of I don't know,
(48:20):
you just tell when you look at your work mate,
You're just like, I don't know what it is, but
it's just your style, do you know what I mean?
I feel like, like music, you can hear a song
by a particular artist and you can immediately attribute it
to that person, And I feel like that with your work,
Like I could see I think I could probably see
one of your photos in the wild and think that's
probably dance, do you know, or if not, his dance
(48:41):
style at least And you know, this might be blowing
smoke up here, but Tom's convinced you've started your own
sub genre street photography.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
You know, he's genuinely convinced you have. Yeah, I mean wow, Yeah,
Say to someone who's trying to find their style.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Don't give up. I think a lot of people give up.
And I think the idea of trying to find a
style is almost like, oh, I'm going to put this
outfit on and that that is my style. It's not.
And I think just because you produce a certain I
think people mix up aesthetic with style a lot, and
I don't. I think it's hard to sort of put
(49:22):
your finger on it. Well, I think the idea of
trying to find like what your style is. It's your
natural default. So it's whatever your natural smell is, I
guess is your style, and you're not going to know
that until you go and shoot. And I think I
fell into the trap of doing it myself, where oh,
(49:43):
it needs to be like high contrast, or it needs
to be this, or it needs to be that. No.
I think the idea is you need to go and shoot,
and you need to go and make a lot of work.
And I think how to breasts on we mentioned him earlier,
so that your first ten thousand photos are going to
be crap before you can really start to understand what
you do it. And I think that's quite relevant within
(50:03):
the photography realm of trying to find out what you
were doing, what you're about and everything. You need to
go and shoot a lot, and it's probably amplified because
of digital now, because you know it was different with
filming the day. You couldn't rattle off a thousand shots
in like three seconds. So I think you do need
to go and shoot a lot, and I think you
need to spend the time. And I think that's the
allurea photography. It looks really easy from the outside, and yeah,
(50:24):
it is is pressing a button at the end of
the day. But that idea of finding style, I think
you've got to go out, put the work in and
then review it. And you've got to be really honest
with what it is that you're what's good, what's bad,
and what really excites you. And it is hard, but
not being phase so much or stirred by what's popular
(50:47):
in social media today. Almost produce the work for yourself.
And it sounds simple enough, but it's quite incredibly hard
to do. But if you was going to I mean,
if I was to give you a camera right now
and he was going to just walk out and I said,
you've got to produce ten images and these are going
in your house. What what you're going to take a
(51:10):
picture of? You know? Is that? You know?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
I mean, go for it.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
Yeah, I'd be looking at the marina. I'd be looking
at the dock tower. It quite derelict, so I'd probably
take a lot of, you know, pictures of that really
around here.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yeah, I mean, do you like that? Is that what
you'd want in? Is that your style for your house?
Is that what you'd want to steal in your walls?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Me personally? Yeah, missus? Yeah, yeah, I get that.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
Yeah, but no, no, I mean perfect anth to me,
you know, reflecting on what you've just said, if someone
had asked me the same but from my sort of discipline,
Ye'd be exactly the same. Put in the work. It
takes a lot of time, and I particularly like what
you said about social media. I think it's although it
is good to trying to tap into trends what happening,
(52:00):
kind of ride off the back of them. Don't just
be a cab and copy of other people, you know. Yeah,
I think I think I think it is hard, though,
isn't it, Because we all want to be seen and
seem to be doing the right thing. But the hardest
thing is doing the thing because you believe in it.
And that's I think if you put if you're playing
the long game, and hopefully the people are going to
(52:21):
be doing this, that they are going to play the
long game, that you have to do it for you,
and then the more you do it for you, the
more it's gonna it's going to open up a lot
of opportunities for you, because then you'll start to see
everything unfolding front on front of you, and you discover
what your style is going to be.
Speaker 1 (52:39):
Yeah, yeah, you've got it. If it's not fun, you're
not going to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it,
you keep coming away with you like the music.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
Sometimes I have to text that back and go it's
getting a bit too much like work, you know what
I mean. We need to have a look at where
the fun is, you know, we need to get back
to the fun.
Speaker 1 (52:54):
You know, it's funny. I literally do that myself, Like
sometimes I will be sad or stood along the front.
I'm like, and I do and then you start scrolling,
don't you What am I doing? This isn't working I
need to do And then to switch it up, do
something different, get a coffee or summer, you know, just anything,
or only take pictures of the sky today, and then
(53:17):
you know, and that that sort of starts that creative
process of oh, okay, there's a limitation what we're going
to do. How I don't want the sky to look
you know, just random questions and I think sometimes that
sort of just bounce off the wall in some sort
of different direction that you can spark the idea of
oh yeah, maybe maybe that, but then what what what
(53:39):
does a picture of the sky look like for you?
You know, do you just one to photograph photograph the
clouds or I don't know, went down a weird rabbit hole.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Now, but it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
I don't know. Yeah, I think there is a part
of it. But then having this comes back to Eggleston.
I think he was again it's a famous I think
someone had asked him to photograph hit their wedding, and
apparently he wandered around the entire wedding snapping pictures of ashtrays,
which I think is brilliant. I think that's a brilliant
way to photograph a wedding. But merely in mind, this
is like a like a fine art a fine art photographer,
(54:16):
not a wedding photographer. Not And he just did his thing,
and he photographed ash trays, and apparently what he presented
to the bride and green at the end of the
or whenever he did the imageries just a series of
pictures of the clouds of the sky during their wedding day,
which I think is brilliant. I mean, it's probably not
what they was expecting, but for an answer to a
(54:37):
brief of photograph my wedding, they've done it in his style.
He's done it and he's done his thing. Wow, can
you imagine that if he's the only photographer in the wedding,
then you're maybe a little bit knackered for your your
line up of everyone.
Speaker 3 (54:52):
But get married this year. I know my missus would
be human. The photographer returned a bunch of photos.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
I mean, if you want some pictures of dropped ice creams,
I'll be your man.
Speaker 4 (55:07):
Dan.
Speaker 2 (55:07):
It's been great to have you Ma, I've really enjoyed
having you on.
Speaker 1 (55:10):
Thank you. I've really enjoyed chatting. It's great.
Speaker 3 (55:13):
And if you've got anything coming up in the future
as well that you want to shout about, then then
come back on.
Speaker 2 (55:18):
We'll have a chat about it in a bit more detailed.
Speaker 3 (55:20):
I'm sure there's a lot speak to you about a
particular project or something like that. Yeah, it would be
really interesting to hear what you've got to say about
some work, a particular piece, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (55:29):
So we'll do it again if you want.
Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah, I would love to absolutely And and.
Speaker 3 (55:32):
Well, everything you've spoken about today will get it linked
down below.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
If you like what you
Speaker 1 (55:37):
Heard, like and subscribe
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