April 27, 2025 • 58 mins
It's Ring-a-Ding time! On this episode of Timey Wimey Talk, Brian and Liz are missing after going to Miami to see a movie, but Karen and Hayley gather to chat about episodes 2 and 3 from this season of Doctor Who, "Lux" and "The Well". Will The Doctor and Belinda be able to get the TARDIS back to 2025 to get Belinda home? "Don't Make Me Laugh."
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Commute: The Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/commute-the-podcast/id1552657624
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So Weird So Fun - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/so-weird-so-fun-swsf-friends-through-fandom/id1793135012
Star Wars YOU-niverse - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/star-wars-you-niverse-podcast/id1704904756
SPaRC's Podcast Buddies:
Across the Bifrost: The Mighty Thor - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/across-the-bifrost-the-mighty-thor-podcast/id1572200841
Dan and Ian Have Questions - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dan-and-ian-have-questions-podcast/id1587402809
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Rebel Force Radio Presents "The Babu Freaks" - https://www.rebelforceradio.com/shows/category/Ba
Jacked Kirby - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jacked-kirby/id1248146026
So Weird So Fun - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/so-weird-so-fun-swsf-friends-through-fandom/id1793135012
Star Wars YOU-niverse - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/star-wars-you-niverse-podcast/id1704904756
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This week on Timey Whymy Talk, we are discussing episodes
two and three from the season's Doctor Who Lucks and
The Well. But we'll be back after some ads that
Doctor Who himself has approved. It's time for the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome to Time Me, Whymy Talk, the podcast that's bigger
on the inside.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm Karen, I'm Haley, and this is it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's just usd us is very roomy today.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It is. We had to leave Brian and Liz back
in Miami where they're having a much better time than
we are.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Probably they're at the cinema. They're having fun.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, yeah, so I missed. I missed the first the
season premiere episode, but I'm happy I can hop on
for these two.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And if you call, did you enjoy it?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's been an interesting season, hasn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It's building Yeah, that way, These.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Two episodes are very opposite of each other. I feel like, yeah,
and I.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Think that is quite Doctor Who. You've got the pastor feature,
You've got, Space, You've got, So it tends to jump
from genres really in episodes, so and I enjoy that.
I think that's what kind of keeps it fresh as well.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Definitely, well you have written some lovely synapsies. So do
you want to go ahead and tell the listeners about
Lux and the well?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Should we start with the looks so? Episode two looks
So the Doctor's quest to get Belinda home takes a
tardis to Miami in nineteen fifty two, when an abandoned
cinema is hiding a terrifying secret. They encounter Luxemperito, the
god of light, who traps them in a traditional hand
(02:15):
drawn cartoon. The Doctor and Belinda must find a way
to escape looks as power and ensure the safety of
others trapped in the film.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Indeed, do you want to do them one at a time?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Or yeah? Should we do?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, they don't really have much to do with well,
there's a little bit of lead over, but yeah, Lux
was not high on my list of enjoyable episodes. I'll say, oh, really,
I think that it's I think it cut speed there
near the end once they became animated, But the beginning
(02:51):
was just very kind of willy nilly for me.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Do you think that's part of that's to do with
the the episode that they're not as long as we
have had traditionally, And I think in a way it's
kind of trying to cram as much of the story
in it was short space of time. It kind of
it does jump around a bit less so in the
(03:17):
next episode, but in it looks particularly I felt like
if even if it just had another ten minutes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Because I think we lost a lot of the commentary
that would have been better to make, especially in the
diner scene and stuff like that felt a little glossed over.
And so I mean, I know it's kind of you
don't want to be super heavy handed, but I feel
like that's part of what doctor who is doing and
always has done, is like to talk about things that
(03:47):
were injustices and aren't right, and so yeah, it just
felt kind of like, Okay, let's just get them into
the movie theater and moving on into animation, which was good.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It was I don't think it wasn't, but the character
I found it quite interesting because I did it. I
was doing a little bit of research and RTD based
the cartoon, the Mister Ringading Cartoon on Flesher cartoons which
(04:20):
were from nineteen twenties to nineteen forties, but there was
one particular cartoon called Mister Book Goes to Town, and
when looking into that it was very very very similar
sort of you could see the comparisons. It was very
(04:40):
very similar. Mind you don't google Flesher comics with auto
correct because it changes it to Flasher comics. And I
got interested in Google a surge results.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Just go into incognito mode for those.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
In my history now, So just a want of raised
from the last hour. I thought, well, first of all,
the I think we've had the first wardrobe visit in
the Target Yes series, and that was that was fun.
The little jive that the doctor did as he came out, Yeah,
(05:16):
Varadi was very I think was based on Maria west
Side story.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Oh yeah, it did look very much, especially like Arianna
Debosa's costume and the newer one for sure. Yeah, she looked.
She looked beautiful and I like that. He's like, oh,
because she's like, we can't just go out in these clothes, right,
And he's like, oh, this is the best part, Like
we get to dress up. Because the dynamic between the
doctor and Belinda, which by the third episode that we'll
(05:41):
talk about has gotten a little better, but she's just
so untrusting of him, and she's so I kind of
like that she calls out his uh that he's dangerous,
that he's not to be trusted basically, and so you know,
he's like, well, can I win her over with changing?
It was like it was kind of a cute little
(06:01):
shift in their dynamic.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And I think it is the episode's gone as well,
that sort of mistrust and the wanting to go home
to start and to enjoy the adventure a little bit more.
Mind you had we move on to episode three later,
but maybe not so much. But the cartoon, I really
(06:31):
loved how it was all hand drawn cartoon obviously not
pen and paper. It was all on computer, but it
was still using the same same skills as they would
have done. And it was also interested in that one
of the animators on it was he actually worked on
(06:51):
who framed Roger Rabbit. Ah, that's neat, so which you
kind of got the same the live action in the cartoon. Yeah,
so history there.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I liked the way lux came to life, like with
the moonlight filtering into the cinema and catching the film
strips like that all. Even though it was a little
bit like, oh this is a little silly, it also
for the god of light, like it made perfect sense.
I really just enjoyed the I don't know, just that
he came to Earth in this very strange way, and
(07:27):
then he had this strange character he had to become
just to be a person or whatever a being.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And then when we got the reveal of the laugh
of the giggle, should I say that he was one
of the gods? That was I think that was well
well done. I'm not sure too sure whether the linking
it to the Pantheon of Gods made a difference or not.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And I think that's back to your thing about the
the episodes, like we didn't get enough time to really
feel what is Lex's true goal just to be cor corporeal?
Is that the word corporeal, because that's not what ends
up happening at the end. And yeah, it seemed a
(08:19):
little ambivalent.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, went very quickly. Drum Will domination, I'm light, I'm everything.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, I've disappeared into the sky. I'm the Watcher.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, that's actually not the only Marvel link because when
the cinema guy, Reginald Pie his storyline about what the
opportunity to have his wife back and how she broke
back and feel the dance just made me think so
much of Cap and Peggy.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, and it was very sweet and as well the
way it started off in black and how she started
off in black and white and then as it turned
she suddenly became became color and life like. So and
you can understand his motivision yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
I never thought that, but it was. It was very
sort of you can understand his motivation, yeah, because you do.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
And then like I felt bad for him by the end,
I was like, well, nobody cares about I don't know.
That was another That was probably the third thing that
I was just like, ah, this just wasn't quite fleshed
out to satisfaction in my opinion, because I guess he
gets to be with her by the end by killing himself.
(09:31):
Which is that what happened you?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Because it I thought that the first time I watched it,
and then the second time I watched it, I thought
that we did what we didn't see him, so I
kind of thought, well, he could have got out before
it all exploded. But as I say, he didn't see
him in the way. It was the case of the
wife saying we'll be together, yeah, say soon.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So yeah, it's not the way to do it, that's
for sure. He seems very long and drawn out.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, and we had the harbinger reveal of the letters
falling down off the cinema before before we found out
that he was just after the giggle. I think that
was I think in terms of the doctor, I think
Shitty is definitely grown into the role. Last season, I
(10:32):
think because he was still doing sex education, I don't
think he had the chance to really grow into the role.
He wasn't in all the episodes. But now just from
these three episodes, and I do think the building I
think each episode has got better as we've gone into
this season. He just feels like he knows what he's
(10:55):
doing now and I'm enjoying it, really enjoying his performance.
And I'm really enjoying the relationship between between the two
main characters as well. I think Blinda, we're getting a
little bit a little bit more every every episode in
the Blinda's character in our background that they're obviously using
(11:18):
the tardest scenes a lot for her to give us
a little bit more information about our family and a
mom and our dad and we find out that is
it was it a moment of play the violin? Yeah, yeah,
and our dad likes to sing con sing, but likes
to sing and it sounds like the life and soul
the party, And so I think using because we didn't
(11:41):
really get a lot of in tardest stuff last season either,
so I think having that is a plus. Should we
talk about the fans about the head the fans appearing
in the episode.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And I did like that part very much.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That was my favorite part of the episode. It's it's
been very marmite. People have either loved it or hated it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, oh okay, wow, But to the world.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Basically, I just felt seen.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I thought it was funny, and I like breaking the
fourth wall like that in something like this, that's like
focusing on film and stuff like that. They're just tapping
into all of the different little aspects. And then I
liked that they were still there by the end, because
so I go, no, well, we won't exist, and he
and Melinda got very emotional for having known them for
three minutes. But I liked that they were still around.
(12:37):
And then of course it's very funny that they all
loved Blink the most.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That was the obvious dig It's Steven Mofford because in
any in Doctor Who magazine they do I think their
annual the pools that they do is to favorite episodes,
and for years Blink was the one that used to
do and it used to be like a few Muffat
episodes before RTD Ones and good Friends. So there's sort
(13:02):
of like I think, just a little bit, it probably
does sticking through a little bit that it's always Moffets episodes.
But yeah, I did like that one. It is mine
and also the sort of so I saw it online.
(13:24):
I know I know what's happening because I saw it
was leaked online. All that r I P Doctor Who, Yeah,
just total dig at the heater. I did like that
what I did, Like you mentioned about seeing at the
end and doing all all that when the token and
and when they realize that actually it's the fans that
(13:45):
are the fiction, not the doctor and Blinda and one
of them says with the sort of characters that only
have first names m hm. But then in the credits
that I all had surnames. It was kind of like
validating them with Chap was really cool.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
It's sort of a nod and a and I dig
get fans.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah totally. But the thing is that's that's not who fans.
We're all a budget. There's always going to be things
that were like things that we don't like, but we
stick around or the majority stick around, and yeah, you know,
it's like anything you're not going to not every episode
is going to be your favorite at the end of
(14:27):
the day. I do like blink, I've got to say it.
But then like some of my favorite episodes are ones
that other people are like a bit met about.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, so different strokes for different folks, as we would say.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I like with with going back the looks when the
mister ringer ding it was really good. How like a
cartoon character. He had his own incidental music, and he
had his own sound effects when he was doing things.
And the fact that he had to finish the song.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Make him sing the songs so you've got time to
get away. And he was like making a little every
time there was a cap in the song, was making
little comments about.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Like not happy to you, I'm going to get to you.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I've got to say I got the voice acting by
Alan Cummons was really good.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh is that who did it? I knew it was somebody.
I obviously wasn't paying attention to the credits. I knew
it was somebody. I knew. I just couldn't quite place it.
I love him.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I think when I was watching I think it was
in Unleashed the Behind the Scenes episodes, Russell T. Davis
was saying that he was a bit unsure at first
about Alan Cummins just because he was in an episode
really recently. He was in the witch Finders episode in
(15:46):
two thousand and eighteen. But because it was voice acting,
and because you couldn't see him and it was a
very different voice that that's why he kind of carry
like went ahead with it, and they recorded him while
he was doing the voice the recording, and they used
(16:08):
they given to the animators and they did use it
some of his what do we call them, probably when
we do just a little bit here and there within
the animation.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So that's neat. Yeah, I think that lex is actually
one of the best parts of the episode. I think
we just don't to make a pun on the episode.
He's not fully fleshed out. We don't we don't fully
understand what his true motives are really, and it's almost
like he's a Yeah, he's in the pantheon of gods,
(16:43):
but he's kind of a lesser one maybe or perhaps
look down a little bit on by the others.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It just didn't It just didn't feel I know, he
was like a bit medicine, but it just didn't feel
threatening enough to be He didn't feel godlike. He could
have been any weird little animation come to life, so
the character. I think that it was the god bit
that didn't really So yeah, it hit for me.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
And then Belinda and the doctor get out of his
trap when he traps them in the film and makes
them two dimensional animation, they get out of it so quickly,
like it's so.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Fast, I've got to get to the end of the episode.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Well that was before they met the fans, right.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It was Yeah. I like the effects of way we
were pulling pulling down the screen.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It was all good. Yeah, it looked good.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Visually, it was a good episode all the nineteen fifties.
The cinema, which was all a set really really good,
and the dina it all felt authentic, even though it
was it was filmed on Penath Pierre in wheels in
(17:54):
the middle of a storm, which I think caused a
few issues with filming. But oh yeah, yeah, and then
of course you had the appearance of Missus Flood at
the end, saying that I have.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
More to say about her in the next episode.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, it's I think if they hadn't have done what
they did with Susan Twist's last series, I would enjoy
the Missus flood thing more.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, it's starting to feel a little like, Okay, can
we get some sort of an answer on this mysterious
figure that's in every single episode.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And I think that's going to probably be the two
part or at the end of the series. I think,
I think these little drop ins are going to be
And it's it's fine, it's it is different to Susan Twist,
Whereas Susan Twist was a different, different person every time
we saw and she generally had some involvement in the
plot itself. With they're just dropping Missus Flood in at
(19:01):
the end of each episode. And again it's almost each
time it's that point of the mayor the twenty fourth
mm hmmm, because on this one she said limited run
only ends the the twenty fourth, So it just it's
(19:22):
planting that seed of what what does that mean? What's
happening on on that date?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And that h m. I think what people think or
people expect, is it to be the last episode? Yeah,
and it's not. It's a second last episode for Brian.
I guess because that's a two parter.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
That's why the be a bigger maybe a bigger reveal
episode than the finale.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, I think so. Or it's going to be a
bit like last year with them su Tech, where it
builds up in the first hopefully a bit more successfully
than that. I didn't hate it, but there was it.
There was things about it which weren't particularly great. But yeah,
(20:19):
let's say I'm super happy.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Good because you're the only opinion that matters.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
In my head.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I am.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I didn't matter what anybody else thinks. As long as
I'm enjoying myself, I'm happy. I think that's That's pretty
much all my thoughts on looks.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
We didn't mention. I think the only other important plot
point is the time vindicator. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yes, But they're using to.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Try to do something doctor huish with time and light
points and bouncing things.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And trying to bungee rope back to I'd do a
lot of googling and online reading what people have got
to saying things like that, And the one comment that
keeps coming up is, well, if they kind of get
the Maid of the twenty fourths, why don't they just
go made the twenty third and waiting the Tartest for
twenty four hours, which kind.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Of is a good point, but hopefully they can address
that platform.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, you're always going to get they have in the
next episode. It would be a very short season, though,
wouldn't it. Let's go the day before when you get
like six episodes of them, just like playing chess in
the Tartis and cross with Hide and Seek, mind you
hide and Seeking the Tartist would be take could take
(21:51):
a while, couldn't it. Really it could. You might get lost,
never to be seen again, just out.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
There and space forever. Yeah, so I think that's I
think that's about it for Lax. It's a fun it's
a fun episode. A few especially enjoy film and animation.
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I think, I think ultimately, when if you think about
the last season and we had Space Babies and the
Maestro episode in comparison, I think it's been a much
stronger start to the season.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yes, yeah, so that's the way I'm looking agreed, works
for me, all right. So Episode three is entitled the Well.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Shall we do? A synopsis that's so far in the
future on a tough, brutal planet. Devastated mining colony has
only one survivor. To discover the truth, the Doctor and
Belinda must face absolute terror. The Doctor and Belinda land
on a spaceship high were planet six seven sixty seven
and jump. A crew have been sent to investigate a
(23:05):
mining base one dark thirty five workers unaccounted for. They
discover the work is dead, with the lone survivor left behind.
An old four hides behind the survivor and the Doctor,
Belinda and the rescue crew find themselves in a fight
for their survival.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Where to begin with the well? Do we want to
cut straight to the chase? You go?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
And then? Okay?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So famously because I said it on the show, and
I know I've said at other places. Uh, the episode
I find most disturbing A doctor who is Midnight. It's
my least favorite episode. It bothered me for a long
time after I watched it, and I, uh, it creeps
me out. It crews me the hell out big time.
And guess what we revisited in the well And I honestly,
(24:01):
as soon as Belinda was like there's something behind, there's
something there, I was like, oh my god, I already
know where we're going and they're trying to kill me
because we're revisiting Midnight, and it made my skin crawl.
And I had also just seen Sinners, and so I
was already kind of jumpy. And let's just say I
didn't sleep extremely well last night.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I'm a big baby, which I think is really funny
because I hate horror. I'm just like, I'm scared of
my own shadow, never mind something behind me. And it
didn't bother me.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
That's so funny, I think, like and like, so Sinners
wasn't scary. It just had some jump scares and jump
scares will get me.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And then really that's.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
All that happened in the well too, was jump scares.
But I just had, like, I just have this trauma
from Midnight and then they showed clips of it. I
was like, no, I it is the creepiest episode.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
It's I know that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I'm yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Know, it's not popular, but definitely.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And I mean, if you don't know what we're talking about. Basically,
in Midnight, there's this entity, the same one in this episode,
but it it doesn't do the same thing it does
in this episode. It like inhabits people and they start
mimicking each other, and to me, that was just extremely
extremely disturbing. And so and then it ends kind of
in a similar way, but kind of.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Not mimic mimicing. I can't even say the word each
other at the point where it's from going to repeating
to actually at the same time then actually saying what
the person is going to say before they say, it's
really with your head and.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
It's messed up. And the doctor is terrified.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
In that episode, and the actress it's Leslie and I
can't remember say name, is amazing. The older lady, what
the was.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
She that looks like missus?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah? Or the younger Yeah, she wasn't that old, but
yeah she she she played that so well, it's creepy.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
So yeah, I was re traumatized by the well.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
It was. I think they did well the way we
had the opening where they kind of did the typical
out of the Tardest into the action. I would love
to know how they knew exactly what suits to get
out of the Tardest wardrobe so that they were the
exact same one as the right the Tardest just like
(26:44):
just hand them those ones, going, I think those are
the ones that you need. So I thought that was
quite quite funny. And the had suits had the propeller
m hm things in them to stop them just like
splattening on the ground.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
We had similar to a scene in Doune too, like
at the beginning, just like floating down from the space.
It looked very similar and I thought that set the
little space that looked really good.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah it was. Well, it was his first quarry and
quarries are a stable of Doctor Who any planet, any
any deserted planet that they have a land on in
Doctor Who since the beginning has generally been a quarry.
So shot he has had his baptism of quarriedom now,
so that's that's good. And we had the first use
(27:32):
of the psychic paper, which was that the the second
in command. Oh he was horrible, Cassio. Yeah, you got
what was coming to him, didn't he. It was a
bit brutal.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Mind well, I mean if you don't want to listen
because you're paranoid and scared, then you know. But it
goes from lighthearted and them talking about shoots, how good
his little rear looks in the flight so to everybody's
dead on the space station very quickly, and oh this
(28:10):
feels like it felt very Doctor Who, especially of David
Tennant's time to me.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and the little things are sprinkled in, like the
mirrors being smashed and how some were basically all the
bones were broken and half of them and then the
other half had blaster and wounds. So sort of like
all these little things that are being dripped fed that
are making you sort of like think, well, what's what's
(28:38):
going on? And obviously all it's all explained further in
the episode. I think it's a family program, so they've
got to be really careful how things have done to
Obviously the major you never saw any of those people's faces, right,
(29:00):
so it's all done in a way. Yet later on
when it all kicks off, you can quite happily see
people being flung through the air and hear the sounds
of bones crunching. Yeah, well it's at least well that's
it when that's and that's how they can sort of
meat what a standard to need a meat cut out
(29:22):
the goal basically, But it's to me, it's the sound
more than anything else. It's the sounds that kind of
make it. Like when the when the varad in the
first saw whatever it was behind Alice's back, and there
was that sudden noise that just added to the to
(29:45):
the jumps because just somebody going it isn't like sort
of like jumping back isn't going to have the same effect,
but that ad that sounding. And I thought the music,
particularly in this episode, that that haunting. It kind of
(30:05):
built it up and you were anticipating something was going
to happen.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I think where we Go, yeah, it was all very
unsettling job of making that feel that way, and I
think that I think Belinda does the best job of
being afraid of whatever it is that's behind Alice. Everybody
else it's almost just like, uh well, and what was
(30:31):
the hope? Maybe it's because there are very jaded people there.
Their line was hope is irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, but by the sounds of what was a Shia share,
she was basically saying like, there's likely being this war
this since I was born, So yeah, what they've lived through. Yeah,
I guess there isn't going to be much much hope.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, so maybe not as much fear either as there
should be. I did like the subtle Lord of the
Rings reference, basically whether it was like we dug too
deep and too dark, and we released whatever this is
like pure fear, I think is what it's kind of
supposed to be. We don't really know what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And I think I think that's what the scary element
of it is. It's the fact that you don't know
where it is, you don't know what it is, you
don't know what it can do.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, because it behaves very differently in this episode than
it doesn't and it even had I don't remember in
Midnight if it made that whispering noise.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
No, I don't think it did, because it was all
channeled through person. So the voice that we got with
the voice of the the character rather than this being,
are quite like in the I'm trying to say, I've
written it down somewhere, they'll call the character. It has
no name, that is what the character is.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Just it. It's almost like a poulter Geist. That's the
if you want to compare it to something in our mythology,
that's what it makes me think of.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, I don't really know much about going back to
the I don't I don't like horror, so I.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Forced myself to watch poulter Geist when I was younger.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Why it seems like a really sad thing to do.
Why would you do that?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I don't know, I am a glutton for exposure therapy.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Oh so saying that they did really well in building
in the suspense and and say it built open. And
then you got to that room and Alice's sat there
on on a box and there's one of a crewmates
(32:58):
lying dead on the floor next to her, and you
just don't know to whether to trust her or not.
She seems like an innocent person that this is all
happened to. But then there's just every now and again
there's kind of like a look or you just I
think that.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
The way they would focus the camera on her, it
was like she'd make these faces. It was kind of
but we I think what we learn is that she
knew it was behind her, she just wasn't telling them
at first. She was being deceitful, but not out of uh,
you know, malevolence, just out of wanting to be saved.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Essentially, she wanted to get home and just so I
don't know whether she thought about what the consequences would
be if if she hadn't told them. But the character
when the when it was originally written, wasn't deaf which
I thought was interesting. That's that side of the storyline
(34:00):
came when they cast Rose ali Els. I think it
is is who is a deaf actress. But I think
it added so much to the episode.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It did. It added not just this compassion, but it
added another element of the suspense because of the way
they needed to communicate with her. I don't know why
I feel that way, but it just kind of did.
Because now you've and because she could be this character
that because she couldn't hear the entity or whatever it was,
(34:36):
if that has no name, the entity is remission impossible.
The thing it so it leans leads to her being
both a victim and someone they can sort of feel
because at one point they want to leave her behind.
They feel like, well, I mean, too bad for you,
but at least you don't know what it's you know,
(34:58):
I don't know. It just added these complicated layers to it.
There were kind of disturbing.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
It was. It was nice to see bsl used in
the episode. Should he actually like.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
You signed a Belinda that you're a nurse and you
don't know how to sign?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It's illegal. Yeah, it was illegal if you were a nurse,
but it wasn't illegal for the troopers because none of
them signed. Yeah, well obviously they had a little little device.
I thought it was clever how they could patch it
to another screen if that if the person wasn't looking
at them, And that obviously was used against Cassio in
(35:39):
that horrible That was the scene that got made the most.
When they're just like the total panic. Yeah, and all
the troopers just flying everywhere. Is Alice kept I think
Alice was trying to keep our eyes on Casio, but
in doing and Cassio was moving right. There was a
couple of the instances before that way she did have
(36:04):
her back to people and nothing happened. Yeah, that was
kind of a bit loose.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Just some bad blocking.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, but as I say, in that, and the fact
that it was midnight, if it stood at midnight, that's
where it was. And the ideas of the clock face,
which when the script the actors were talking about the
script and when they got it the directions that Russell
(36:32):
had written down. Russell wrote this with Sharma Angel Walfall,
who shout out to one of the panda's waterfall Angel.
One of my friends Courtney read that as waterfall Angel.
So we've said she's been Moonlight and doing a bit
of script writing, but he wrote the directions as times
(36:57):
on the clock, while the actors just like, we're totally like,
oh well, we'll worry about that when we get actually
film it, because it was sort of like and such
and such as a two o'clock and you were at
three o'clock, and they were just like, yeah, no, it
probably made totals. I think that's the thing with us all.
He kind of he visualizes everything, and he's very much
(37:24):
a lot of his writing is the stage directions. Yeah,
so that probably totally made sense in his head. But
I think it confused the cast a little bit.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I think they could have just done more camera work
and made it a little more frantic seeming with the camera,
and then we wouldn't have had that a noticeable issue
of her having her back because I thought the same.
I was like, wait, who aren't you all supposed to
be dead at this point?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
She did a spine when the first sort of started
shouting at her, and she did it. She did a
whole three sixty space. If that's the case, every single
one of them would have been.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That was the thing that made me go, what, But
you know what, it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
That's fine. You just have to spend it was to
spend disbelief.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Expension of suspension of belief.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You would get there in the end. I think ra
Zeale and Ellis as Alice was fantastic. I thought she
really was the best thing about that episode, considering the
she had to act and lip reading. Obviously she'd read
(38:38):
the script, but she would have been lip reading the actors.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Imagine it would have been exhausting for her filming because
I know that they get fatigued, you know, from having
to read lips or having to you know, I just
know it's fatiguing. So I thought she did a great job.
And then she gets to go home to her daughter,
which was a lovely result.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
However, however, however, did you know it's the screen they
when they went in the airlock, not obviously shooting and
them didn't get in the air lock, but when Alice
and troopers I think was seven and nine, they said
trooper seven and nine and Alice go in and what
(39:22):
have you. So there was three of them, but the
screen said there was full.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Ew No, I didn't notice. So creepy.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
And then you had the final twist of more after
she's done all of her sort of captain's log, and
then she went goes out in the corridor because she
hears the tardest leaving and then the other trooper has
that reaction. They're already off the planet at this point.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Right, I did see I noticed that part. I didn't
notice the other part.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So basically two of these these are now out in
the universe.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Okay, so you think it's not the same one, you.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Think it can't be it.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I don't know. I don't trust this thing.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
This thing shall not be named, yes, but either way,
it's out there, so there's always a possibility of him.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, so I'll be traumatizing in midnight. Yeah. I it's
a good it's a good evil thing for them to battle,
because we always fear that which we can't see and
that which we can't explain. So the doctor communicates with
(40:40):
it in some way behind Alice and says, it knows
my name, And does that mean like a true name
for the doctor?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Oh, it could have just been the doctor.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Okay, I didn't know. If there was some thing I
didn't know about.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It could be, but I don't know. They for four
four thousand years, because does it remember him from the last.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Time, and it did, I think, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Or obviously you've got people calling them doctor the whole
time they which could mean that it's his real name
rather than his name that he's given himself. But that's
part of the game, isn't it. It plays plays with people,
So I'm not quite sure if that scene would have
(41:41):
been added to if you could you could hear what
was being said.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Now, I think that not knowing is part of the
it's part of the game. It's part of the fear.
It's part of because even the Doctor seems rattled, although
he figures out of course a way to quote get
away from get it, but not really.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, it seemed like it was mind you. It was good.
It was It was clever, the idea of the mercury
and the reflection, but it didn't All it did was
release Alice. It was still there as an entity, and
it was quite interested in watching Unleashed because it Paul Casey,
(42:31):
who's the main monster man and I think he does
a lot of the choreography stuff now for the monsters
on Doctor Who. He actually wore a mask and he
was behind that's creepy behind Rose when she was like,
they just didn't make it a bit more authentic and
(42:53):
and give her the y basically a feel.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Well, it has something to actually look at, so everybody's
looking at the same you know, fine and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Probably, and when you freeze fra him, it is that
mask that you can see behind it early second, so
they have a sort of like, I'm not going to
do that, Nightmares, I'll send you the screenshirt.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
No, thank you, No, I'm good. I'm good with it.
Having no face and no name and no personality.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
It reminded me. And I don't know whether you've seen
this episode. Back in the day, well it would have
been about two thousand and six, there was an episode
called Love and Monsters, which was a doctor light episode,
so the Doctor and Rus were only seen at the
beginning at the end of the episode. It was about
(43:48):
a bunch of people who wanted to find out more
about the doctor. They kind of they had experiences, and
then there was this but the very beginning of the episode,
the Doctor and Rose were chasing this monster around and
the face was very similar. And I'm undering whether it's
(44:12):
whether it's anything to do whether they've reused a mask
or like repurposed. It just made me think think of
that it probably was, wasn't it probably was a new one,
but very creepy, a very creepy episode.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I think I could probably seen that, but it was
a long time ago.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
I would say. In terms of this being a sequel
to Midnight, I would say it wasn't as suspense suspenseful,
And I think that that was to do with the
setting because obviously Midnight was on that little ship, but
all in that one room for the pretty much the
(44:52):
whole episode you couldn't get they couldn't get out right,
so you had that those higher stakes where yes, there
were still in one room for the majority of that episode,
but it was a much bigger space. It wasn't as
enclosed it.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
The threat was there, but it, yeah, it's just not
the it's not the locked room mystery necessarily like the
first one was, basically, and I think, like I'm joking
about how it scared me, and really I think what
scared me is the memory of the Midnight episode more
than anything else, because everybody's like you're saying, they're trapped
(45:33):
there together in this one. They could have left, and
they could have left. Alice there and I don't know
it maybe it was maybe that's true. Well they've been
there a while. Maybe maybe leaving her there would have
been even though the not humane thing to do, maybe
the entity wouldn't have escaped. So who knows. That's an
ethical question that it was the right thing to save Alice.
(45:57):
But it also that the entity thing escaped, So.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Worker, Sorry, we had a bust moment. We had a
we had another instance of the doctor willn't sacrifice himself
for his companion, and when the thing, whatever it may be,
jump on my back, goes behind Belinda. I think the
(46:34):
doctor green for Belinda be shot.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
There was an odd scene.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, I guess he trusted her because he knew, like
she already witnessed that she was a good shot, and
but still like shooting somebody basically in that heart.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, it was a little odd. It was like, is
this the best way to do? I don't know, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I guess it. It was a way they had a
trick the thing, because the thing had to believe she
was dead to actually shift both.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
But if they showed up being sort of sentient, like
speaking to the doctor in a way, then wouldn't it
know what they were planning. I don't know, the rules
don't apply.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
They could have used the we don't know where they
can read, so they could he use their little screens.
Oh yeah, but then did that speak for the screen?
Now it's getting to.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, they would have had to speak for the screens.
See now we're pulling it apart. We don't want to
do that. It's actually a pretty good episode.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
That's the thing that was. You can kind of almost
trying to find the thing's wrong with it, and it was.
It was a really enjoyable episode.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
It was a good one.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
The one thing that they did use, which was a
nod back is I was saying about the music earlier.
They actually did slip the midnight theme within the episode
as well. So there was those little There was plenty
of little Easter eggs in there for there was plenty
of Easter eggs in there for fans who've been around
a while. Yeah, but you didn't have I think a
(48:30):
new viewer will be able to follow the episode understand that,
oh the dog has been here before. They said about
how it was diamonds, a planet of diamonds.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
And yeah, so I think that that was the first thing.
And then when Belinda said she saw something, that was
when I was like, ah, that I remember the whole
diamonds ish thing from Because what they do in Midnight
Writer is the ship stewardess or whatever takes the old
lady who's inhabiting the entity and they just jump out
of the ship and burn into the atmosphere because it's
(49:07):
like extremely radiated.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
I thought it was another little nod that had in
was the galvanic radiation that was on the planet. That
was the if you remember back to the Giggle episode,
the beam that they had to shoot the satellites, that
(49:30):
was the galvanic beam. Okay, so we've got a little continuation. Yeah,
tie in too. That's what the trick you know. It
wasn't the trick was it the Trickster? No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
It was the toy maker.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Toy maker, that's the one. That's the beam that that
caused the by generation was the galvanic beam. So I
like little little callbacks like that. I like dropping things
in that we've we've had before, we.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Haven't mentioned the important plot point that these people did
not know about the human race or about Earth, and
that was very disturbing to both Belinda and the.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Doctor and they both found out in separate ways as well.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And then we have Missus Flood at the end, and
something is going according to her plan apparently.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, because she was happy that the Vindicated been used.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
So is she one of the gods? Perhaps?
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Is she know the timeload?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Is she? Could she be the Master? Maybe you could
pull out all sorts of names. It could be anything,
be to something completely different.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
It could just be Missus Flood.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
She could be trying to save the world for all
we know.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah, she might not be evil.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
She might not be, but I really think she probably is.
And of course after we had that, we've got next week,
we've got send it back. Oh good, So we're going
to have a bit of earth bound shenanigans. I think
we're probably going to have a unit as well, So
(51:10):
that'll be that'd be good.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Is it going to be a Doctor light episode?
Speaker 2 (51:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
That'll be interesting because if they're still on Earth and
the Doctor and Belinda are somewhere where Earth didn't exist,
maybe they're trying to find them.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
But then they were on Earth in Miami. It just
Earth at a different time, so it could be Okay,
So I'm guessing it won't be Earth in the future,
like in the future of between Blinda Levin, because that
was May the twenty third, May the twenty fourth, whatever
the date is. I keep again, it could be that
(51:48):
it's in that time period, though, because I can't imagine
they'd be able to go to the future, as you say,
because it's in the Earth doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Right, So they were in the future this episode, right,
four hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Years Yeah, but not on Earth.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
But not on Earth right because it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
We're just all We're just the fans, aren't we were?
We just make believe I just.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Tripped through this experience. Every week. I'm just like, Okay,
what's up next?
Speaker 2 (52:20):
And I think that's the way you've got to watch it.
You just you've got to just enjoy the episodes for
what they are. It's a television show at the end
of the day. It's not life or death.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's not it's not.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
And we all have surnames, do we.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
What's that behind you, Karen? Now? It's just Buster.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
All in all? Yeah, really good episode, yeah, yeah, definitely
well done.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Good effects, yes, good costumes, the SUTs we're good looking
in this one too.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
So when they were talking to Varada. When Varada was interviewed,
she said that she kind of felt more at home
in this episode, and she did reference another Disney Plus show.
She didn't say my name, but she did say she
felt that she had to keep reminding her what job
(53:19):
she was doing because of the costume and everything just
met in the action side of it and what have you.
She kind of that's for andor for anybody who doesn't know,
not that I've seen any of Ando, but.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Else worth watching.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
And the costumes. They wanted them to have Marvel superheroe
type costumes. So they liked that. They did. Mind that's
that's Galifries, you.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Know, that's I mean, that's should be the title of
the episode on that. No, do you have anything else
not ites wise for the listeners.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
No, I think we've covered everything. That just one thing
that I think is worth mentioning. I like the way
they sorry, I'm dying. I like they do go all in.
So they made sure they had a BSL British ign
(54:27):
nanguage consultant on set, should he was having lessons after
the filming or just just to make sure that everything
was being done correctly. All the cast and crew went
on the death of the crew definitely. I'm not sure
about the cast did a deaf awareness course just to
(54:48):
make people a bit more away. Ruse herself had an
interpreter on set, so obviously for the if the director
and anyone was given it any notes to make her
life as straightforward as it possibly could be in this situation.
(55:08):
So I like that they go to that extent with this.
They want that authentic sort of experience and to make
sure to do it right, and it was it was
really nice to say on the on the behind the
scenes stuff. I think it was on YouTube where she
would be going to Rose at the end of the
scene and saying, did I do that right? I did?
This is out the correct sign And just making sure
(55:29):
that he's doing it properly and treating it has been
an important aspect. So I really like that. I really
appreciated that.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, it was a nice touch in the episode, and
it would have been easy just to have them all
doing everything correctly. But they even show at one point
Alice saying can you please you know, look at me,
so I know what you're talking about, and just that
the way that everyday life is very different for somebody
who's hearing impaired like that, and even the smallest thing
(56:03):
of just not looking at them while you're speaking is
something that leads to lack of accommodation. So yeah, it
was very well done.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
And in that scene as well, I think doctor was
using a deafness against it because he purposely turned his
back on them and was saying about like sort of
haven't it that couldn't leave with them because it couldn't
take the thing with them. But then he kind of
(56:31):
he apologized, he turned around and he signed sorry, So
his conscious seemed to sort of kick in at that
point and I shouldn't I shouldn't be doing that. But yeah, no,
all good.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, very good episode. Well we shall see about when
we can cast for the next one or two. Tis
that time of year where things are busy, but we're
trying to get the episodes out. Do you want to
plug anything.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Karen, Nope, nothing maya all right?
Speaker 1 (57:07):
While the aforementioned and or is being covered on Always
Watching by myself, Ashley Scotti and Jeff if he's available.
And so the first episode for episodes one through three
are out and then Thunderbolts comes out this week, which
is very very exciting, and Brian and I will be
doing our primer on Centree this week, so that'll be fun.
(57:27):
And there's just all kinds of amazing geeky things out
there do enjoy right now. So on that note, we'll
say tata for now bye. Thank you for listening to
Source Pages, a reading collective, a proud member of the
Stranded Panda Network. If you would like to contact us,
(57:48):
you can email Spark podcast at gmail dot com that's
Spark with a C, or follow us on Twitter at
source pages cast. For this and other great shows. You
can visit Strandedpanda dot or join the great community that
is the Strandedpanda Chat Facebook group at facebook dot com,
slash groups slash sp chat, and remember, let readings spark
(58:11):
your imagination
This week on Timey Whymy Talk, we are discussing episodes
two and three from the season's Doctor Who Lucks and
The Well. But we'll be back after some ads that
Doctor Who himself has approved. It's time for the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Welcome to Time Me, Whymy Talk, the podcast that's bigger
on the inside.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm Karen, I'm Haley, and this is it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
It's just usd us is very roomy today.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It is. We had to leave Brian and Liz back
in Miami where they're having a much better time than
we are.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Probably they're at the cinema. They're having fun.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Yeah, yeah, so I missed. I missed the first the
season premiere episode, but I'm happy I can hop on
for these two.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
And if you call, did you enjoy it?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
It's been an interesting season, hasn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
It's building Yeah, that way, These.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Two episodes are very opposite of each other. I feel like, yeah,
and I.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Think that is quite Doctor Who. You've got the pastor feature,
You've got, Space, You've got, So it tends to jump
from genres really in episodes, so and I enjoy that.
I think that's what kind of keeps it fresh as well.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Definitely, well you have written some lovely synapsies. So do
you want to go ahead and tell the listeners about
Lux and the well?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Should we start with the looks so? Episode two looks
So the Doctor's quest to get Belinda home takes a
tardis to Miami in nineteen fifty two, when an abandoned
cinema is hiding a terrifying secret. They encounter Luxemperito, the
god of light, who traps them in a traditional hand
(02:15):
drawn cartoon. The Doctor and Belinda must find a way
to escape looks as power and ensure the safety of
others trapped in the film.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Indeed, do you want to do them one at a time?
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Or yeah? Should we do?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, they don't really have much to do with well,
there's a little bit of lead over, but yeah, Lux
was not high on my list of enjoyable episodes. I'll say, oh, really,
I think that it's I think it cut speed there
near the end once they became animated, But the beginning
(02:51):
was just very kind of willy nilly for me.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Do you think that's part of that's to do with
the the episode that they're not as long as we
have had traditionally, And I think in a way it's
kind of trying to cram as much of the story
in it was short space of time. It kind of
it does jump around a bit less so in the
(03:17):
next episode, but in it looks particularly I felt like
if even if it just had another ten minutes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Because I think we lost a lot of the commentary
that would have been better to make, especially in the
diner scene and stuff like that felt a little glossed over.
And so I mean, I know it's kind of you
don't want to be super heavy handed, but I feel
like that's part of what doctor who is doing and
always has done, is like to talk about things that
(03:47):
were injustices and aren't right, and so yeah, it just
felt kind of like, Okay, let's just get them into
the movie theater and moving on into animation, which was good.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It was I don't think it wasn't, but the character
I found it quite interesting because I did it. I
was doing a little bit of research and RTD based
the cartoon, the Mister Ringading Cartoon on Flesher cartoons which
(04:20):
were from nineteen twenties to nineteen forties, but there was
one particular cartoon called Mister Book Goes to Town, and
when looking into that it was very very very similar
sort of you could see the comparisons. It was very
(04:40):
very similar. Mind you don't google Flesher comics with auto
correct because it changes it to Flasher comics. And I
got interested in Google a surge results.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Just go into incognito mode for those.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
In my history now, So just a want of raised
from the last hour. I thought, well, first of all,
the I think we've had the first wardrobe visit in
the Target Yes series, and that was that was fun.
The little jive that the doctor did as he came out, Yeah,
(05:16):
Varadi was very I think was based on Maria west
Side story.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Oh yeah, it did look very much, especially like Arianna
Debosa's costume and the newer one for sure. Yeah, she looked.
She looked beautiful and I like that. He's like, oh,
because she's like, we can't just go out in these clothes, right,
And he's like, oh, this is the best part, Like
we get to dress up. Because the dynamic between the
doctor and Belinda, which by the third episode that we'll
(05:41):
talk about has gotten a little better, but she's just
so untrusting of him, and she's so I kind of
like that she calls out his uh that he's dangerous,
that he's not to be trusted basically, and so you know,
he's like, well, can I win her over with changing?
It was like it was kind of a cute little
(06:01):
shift in their dynamic.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
And I think it is the episode's gone as well,
that sort of mistrust and the wanting to go home
to start and to enjoy the adventure a little bit more.
Mind you had we move on to episode three later,
but maybe not so much. But the cartoon, I really
(06:31):
loved how it was all hand drawn cartoon obviously not
pen and paper. It was all on computer, but it
was still using the same same skills as they would
have done. And it was also interested in that one
of the animators on it was he actually worked on
(06:51):
who framed Roger Rabbit. Ah, that's neat, so which you
kind of got the same the live action in the cartoon. Yeah,
so history there.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
I liked the way lux came to life, like with
the moonlight filtering into the cinema and catching the film
strips like that all. Even though it was a little
bit like, oh this is a little silly, it also
for the god of light, like it made perfect sense.
I really just enjoyed the I don't know, just that
he came to Earth in this very strange way, and
(07:27):
then he had this strange character he had to become
just to be a person or whatever a being.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
And then when we got the reveal of the laugh
of the giggle, should I say that he was one
of the gods? That was I think that was well
well done. I'm not sure too sure whether the linking
it to the Pantheon of Gods made a difference or not.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And I think that's back to your thing about the
the episodes, like we didn't get enough time to really
feel what is Lex's true goal just to be cor corporeal?
Is that the word corporeal, because that's not what ends
up happening at the end. And yeah, it seemed a
(08:19):
little ambivalent.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, went very quickly. Drum Will domination, I'm light, I'm everything.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yeah, I've disappeared into the sky. I'm the Watcher.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yeah, that's actually not the only Marvel link because when
the cinema guy, Reginald Pie his storyline about what the
opportunity to have his wife back and how she broke
back and feel the dance just made me think so
much of Cap and Peggy.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, and it was very sweet and as well the
way it started off in black and how she started
off in black and white and then as it turned
she suddenly became became color and life like. So and
you can understand his motivision yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah.
I never thought that, but it was. It was very
sort of you can understand his motivation, yeah, because you do.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
And then like I felt bad for him by the end,
I was like, well, nobody cares about I don't know.
That was another That was probably the third thing that
I was just like, ah, this just wasn't quite fleshed
out to satisfaction in my opinion, because I guess he
gets to be with her by the end by killing himself.
(09:31):
Which is that what happened you?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Because it I thought that the first time I watched it,
and then the second time I watched it, I thought
that we did what we didn't see him, so I
kind of thought, well, he could have got out before
it all exploded. But as I say, he didn't see
him in the way. It was the case of the
wife saying we'll be together, yeah, say soon.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
So yeah, it's not the way to do it, that's
for sure. He seems very long and drawn out.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, and we had the harbinger reveal of the letters
falling down off the cinema before before we found out
that he was just after the giggle. I think that
was I think in terms of the doctor, I think
Shitty is definitely grown into the role. Last season, I
(10:32):
think because he was still doing sex education, I don't
think he had the chance to really grow into the role.
He wasn't in all the episodes. But now just from
these three episodes, and I do think the building I
think each episode has got better as we've gone into
this season. He just feels like he knows what he's
(10:55):
doing now and I'm enjoying it, really enjoying his performance.
And I'm really enjoying the relationship between between the two
main characters as well. I think Blinda, we're getting a
little bit a little bit more every every episode in
the Blinda's character in our background that they're obviously using
(11:18):
the tardest scenes a lot for her to give us
a little bit more information about our family and a
mom and our dad and we find out that is
it was it a moment of play the violin? Yeah, yeah,
and our dad likes to sing con sing, but likes
to sing and it sounds like the life and soul
the party, And so I think using because we didn't
(11:41):
really get a lot of in tardest stuff last season either,
so I think having that is a plus. Should we
talk about the fans about the head the fans appearing
in the episode.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And I did like that part very much.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
That was my favorite part of the episode. It's it's
been very marmite. People have either loved it or hated it.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, oh okay, wow, But to the world.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Basically, I just felt seen.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I thought it was funny, and I like breaking the
fourth wall like that in something like this, that's like
focusing on film and stuff like that. They're just tapping
into all of the different little aspects. And then I
liked that they were still there by the end, because
so I go, no, well, we won't exist, and he
and Melinda got very emotional for having known them for
three minutes. But I liked that they were still around.
(12:37):
And then of course it's very funny that they all
loved Blink the most.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That was the obvious dig It's Steven Mofford because in
any in Doctor Who magazine they do I think their
annual the pools that they do is to favorite episodes,
and for years Blink was the one that used to
do and it used to be like a few Muffat
episodes before RTD Ones and good Friends. So there's sort
(13:02):
of like I think, just a little bit, it probably
does sticking through a little bit that it's always Moffets episodes.
But yeah, I did like that one. It is mine
and also the sort of so I saw it online.
(13:24):
I know I know what's happening because I saw it
was leaked online. All that r I P Doctor Who, Yeah,
just total dig at the heater. I did like that
what I did, Like you mentioned about seeing at the
end and doing all all that when the token and
and when they realize that actually it's the fans that
(13:45):
are the fiction, not the doctor and Blinda and one
of them says with the sort of characters that only
have first names m hm. But then in the credits
that I all had surnames. It was kind of like
validating them with Chap was really cool.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
It's sort of a nod and a and I dig
get fans.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah totally. But the thing is that's that's not who fans.
We're all a budget. There's always going to be things
that were like things that we don't like, but we
stick around or the majority stick around, and yeah, you know,
it's like anything you're not going to not every episode
is going to be your favorite at the end of
(14:27):
the day. I do like blink, I've got to say it.
But then like some of my favorite episodes are ones
that other people are like a bit met about.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah, so different strokes for different folks, as we would say.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I like with with going back the looks when the
mister ringer ding it was really good. How like a
cartoon character. He had his own incidental music, and he
had his own sound effects when he was doing things.
And the fact that he had to finish the song.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Make him sing the songs so you've got time to
get away. And he was like making a little every
time there was a cap in the song, was making
little comments about.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Like not happy to you, I'm going to get to you.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I've got to say I got the voice acting by
Alan Cummons was really good.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh is that who did it? I knew it was somebody.
I obviously wasn't paying attention to the credits. I knew
it was somebody. I knew. I just couldn't quite place it.
I love him.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I think when I was watching I think it was
in Unleashed the Behind the Scenes episodes, Russell T. Davis
was saying that he was a bit unsure at first
about Alan Cummins just because he was in an episode
really recently. He was in the witch Finders episode in
(15:46):
two thousand and eighteen. But because it was voice acting,
and because you couldn't see him and it was a
very different voice that that's why he kind of carry
like went ahead with it, and they recorded him while
he was doing the voice the recording, and they used
(16:08):
they given to the animators and they did use it
some of his what do we call them, probably when
we do just a little bit here and there within
the animation.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
So that's neat. Yeah, I think that lex is actually
one of the best parts of the episode. I think
we just don't to make a pun on the episode.
He's not fully fleshed out. We don't we don't fully
understand what his true motives are really, and it's almost
like he's a Yeah, he's in the pantheon of gods,
(16:43):
but he's kind of a lesser one maybe or perhaps
look down a little bit on by the others.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
It just didn't It just didn't feel I know, he
was like a bit medicine, but it just didn't feel
threatening enough to be He didn't feel godlike. He could
have been any weird little animation come to life, so
the character. I think that it was the god bit
that didn't really So yeah, it hit for me.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
And then Belinda and the doctor get out of his
trap when he traps them in the film and makes
them two dimensional animation, they get out of it so quickly,
like it's so.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Fast, I've got to get to the end of the episode.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Well that was before they met the fans, right.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
It was Yeah. I like the effects of way we
were pulling pulling down the screen.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It was all good. Yeah, it looked good.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Visually, it was a good episode all the nineteen fifties.
The cinema, which was all a set really really good,
and the dina it all felt authentic, even though it
was it was filmed on Penath Pierre in wheels in
(17:54):
the middle of a storm, which I think caused a
few issues with filming. But oh yeah, yeah, and then
of course you had the appearance of Missus Flood at
the end, saying that I have.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
More to say about her in the next episode.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, it's I think if they hadn't have done what
they did with Susan Twist's last series, I would enjoy
the Missus flood thing more.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, it's starting to feel a little like, Okay, can
we get some sort of an answer on this mysterious
figure that's in every single episode.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And I think that's going to probably be the two
part or at the end of the series. I think,
I think these little drop ins are going to be
And it's it's fine, it's it is different to Susan Twist,
Whereas Susan Twist was a different, different person every time
we saw and she generally had some involvement in the
plot itself. With they're just dropping Missus Flood in at
(19:01):
the end of each episode. And again it's almost each
time it's that point of the mayor the twenty fourth
mm hmmm, because on this one she said limited run
only ends the the twenty fourth, So it just it's
(19:22):
planting that seed of what what does that mean? What's
happening on on that date?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Right?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
And that h m. I think what people think or
people expect, is it to be the last episode? Yeah,
and it's not. It's a second last episode for Brian.
I guess because that's a two parter.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
That's why the be a bigger maybe a bigger reveal
episode than the finale.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, I think so. Or it's going to be a
bit like last year with them su Tech, where it
builds up in the first hopefully a bit more successfully
than that. I didn't hate it, but there was it.
There was things about it which weren't particularly great. But yeah,
(20:19):
let's say I'm super happy.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
Good because you're the only opinion that matters.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
In my head.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
I am.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
I didn't matter what anybody else thinks. As long as
I'm enjoying myself, I'm happy. I think that's That's pretty
much all my thoughts on looks.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
We didn't mention. I think the only other important plot
point is the time vindicator. Is that right?
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Yes, But they're using to.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Try to do something doctor huish with time and light
points and bouncing things.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And trying to bungee rope back to I'd do a
lot of googling and online reading what people have got
to saying things like that, And the one comment that
keeps coming up is, well, if they kind of get
the Maid of the twenty fourths, why don't they just
go made the twenty third and waiting the Tartest for
twenty four hours, which kind.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Of is a good point, but hopefully they can address
that platform.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, you're always going to get they have in the
next episode. It would be a very short season, though,
wouldn't it. Let's go the day before when you get
like six episodes of them, just like playing chess in
the Tartis and cross with Hide and Seek, mind you
hide and Seeking the Tartist would be take could take
(21:51):
a while, couldn't it. Really it could. You might get lost,
never to be seen again, just out.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
There and space forever. Yeah, so I think that's I
think that's about it for Lax. It's a fun it's
a fun episode. A few especially enjoy film and animation.
I think.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I think, I think ultimately, when if you think about
the last season and we had Space Babies and the
Maestro episode in comparison, I think it's been a much
stronger start to the season.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Yes, yeah, so that's the way I'm looking agreed, works
for me, all right. So Episode three is entitled the Well.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
Shall we do? A synopsis that's so far in the
future on a tough, brutal planet. Devastated mining colony has
only one survivor. To discover the truth, the Doctor and
Belinda must face absolute terror. The Doctor and Belinda land
on a spaceship high were planet six seven sixty seven
and jump. A crew have been sent to investigate a
(23:05):
mining base one dark thirty five workers unaccounted for. They
discover the work is dead, with the lone survivor left behind.
An old four hides behind the survivor and the Doctor,
Belinda and the rescue crew find themselves in a fight
for their survival.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Where to begin with the well? Do we want to
cut straight to the chase? You go?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
And then? Okay?
Speaker 1 (23:36):
So famously because I said it on the show, and
I know I've said at other places. Uh, the episode
I find most disturbing A doctor who is Midnight. It's
my least favorite episode. It bothered me for a long
time after I watched it, and I, uh, it creeps
me out. It crews me the hell out big time.
And guess what we revisited in the well And I honestly,
(24:01):
as soon as Belinda was like there's something behind, there's
something there, I was like, oh my god, I already
know where we're going and they're trying to kill me
because we're revisiting Midnight, and it made my skin crawl.
And I had also just seen Sinners, and so I
was already kind of jumpy. And let's just say I
didn't sleep extremely well last night.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I'm a big baby, which I think is really funny
because I hate horror. I'm just like, I'm scared of
my own shadow, never mind something behind me. And it
didn't bother me.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
That's so funny, I think, like and like, so Sinners
wasn't scary. It just had some jump scares and jump
scares will get me.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
And then really that's.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
All that happened in the well too, was jump scares.
But I just had, like, I just have this trauma
from Midnight and then they showed clips of it. I
was like, no, I it is the creepiest episode.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
It's I know that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I'm yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Know, it's not popular, but definitely.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
And I mean, if you don't know what we're talking about. Basically,
in Midnight, there's this entity, the same one in this episode,
but it it doesn't do the same thing it does
in this episode. It like inhabits people and they start
mimicking each other, and to me, that was just extremely
extremely disturbing. And so and then it ends kind of
in a similar way, but kind of.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Not mimic mimicing. I can't even say the word each
other at the point where it's from going to repeating
to actually at the same time then actually saying what
the person is going to say before they say, it's
really with your head and.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
It's messed up. And the doctor is terrified.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
In that episode, and the actress it's Leslie and I
can't remember say name, is amazing. The older lady, what
the was.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
She that looks like missus?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah? Or the younger Yeah, she wasn't that old, but
yeah she she she played that so well, it's creepy.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
So yeah, I was re traumatized by the well.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
It was. I think they did well the way we
had the opening where they kind of did the typical
out of the Tardest into the action. I would love
to know how they knew exactly what suits to get
out of the Tardest wardrobe so that they were the
exact same one as the right the Tardest just like
(26:44):
just hand them those ones, going, I think those are
the ones that you need. So I thought that was
quite quite funny. And the had suits had the propeller
m hm things in them to stop them just like
splattening on the ground.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
We had similar to a scene in Doune too, like
at the beginning, just like floating down from the space.
It looked very similar and I thought that set the
little space that looked really good.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah it was. Well, it was his first quarry and
quarries are a stable of Doctor Who any planet, any
any deserted planet that they have a land on in
Doctor Who since the beginning has generally been a quarry.
So shot he has had his baptism of quarriedom now,
so that's that's good. And we had the first use
(27:32):
of the psychic paper, which was that the the second
in command. Oh he was horrible, Cassio. Yeah, you got
what was coming to him, didn't he. It was a
bit brutal.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Mind well, I mean if you don't want to listen
because you're paranoid and scared, then you know. But it
goes from lighthearted and them talking about shoots, how good
his little rear looks in the flight so to everybody's
dead on the space station very quickly, and oh this
(28:10):
feels like it felt very Doctor Who, especially of David
Tennant's time to me.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and the little things are sprinkled in, like the
mirrors being smashed and how some were basically all the
bones were broken and half of them and then the
other half had blaster and wounds. So sort of like
all these little things that are being dripped fed that
are making you sort of like think, well, what's what's
(28:38):
going on? And obviously all it's all explained further in
the episode. I think it's a family program, so they've
got to be really careful how things have done to
Obviously the major you never saw any of those people's faces, right,
(29:00):
so it's all done in a way. Yet later on
when it all kicks off, you can quite happily see
people being flung through the air and hear the sounds
of bones crunching. Yeah, well it's at least well that's
it when that's and that's how they can sort of
meat what a standard to need a meat cut out
(29:22):
the goal basically, But it's to me, it's the sound
more than anything else. It's the sounds that kind of
make it. Like when the when the varad in the
first saw whatever it was behind Alice's back, and there
was that sudden noise that just added to the to
(29:45):
the jumps because just somebody going it isn't like sort
of like jumping back isn't going to have the same effect,
but that ad that sounding. And I thought the music,
particularly in this episode, that that haunting. It kind of
(30:05):
built it up and you were anticipating something was going
to happen.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
I think where we Go, yeah, it was all very
unsettling job of making that feel that way, and I
think that I think Belinda does the best job of
being afraid of whatever it is that's behind Alice. Everybody
else it's almost just like, uh well, and what was
(30:31):
the hope? Maybe it's because there are very jaded people there.
Their line was hope is irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, but by the sounds of what was a Shia share,
she was basically saying like, there's likely being this war
this since I was born, So yeah, what they've lived through. Yeah,
I guess there isn't going to be much much hope.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Yeah, so maybe not as much fear either as there
should be. I did like the subtle Lord of the
Rings reference, basically whether it was like we dug too
deep and too dark, and we released whatever this is
like pure fear, I think is what it's kind of
supposed to be. We don't really know what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And I think I think that's what the scary element
of it is. It's the fact that you don't know
where it is, you don't know what it is, you
don't know what it can do.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Yeah, because it behaves very differently in this episode than
it doesn't and it even had I don't remember in
Midnight if it made that whispering noise.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
No, I don't think it did, because it was all
channeled through person. So the voice that we got with
the voice of the the character rather than this being,
are quite like in the I'm trying to say, I've
written it down somewhere, they'll call the character. It has
no name, that is what the character is.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Just it. It's almost like a poulter Geist. That's the
if you want to compare it to something in our mythology,
that's what it makes me think of.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Yeah, I don't really know much about going back to
the I don't I don't like horror, so I.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Forced myself to watch poulter Geist when I was younger.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Why it seems like a really sad thing to do.
Why would you do that?
Speaker 1 (32:31):
I don't know, I am a glutton for exposure therapy.
Speaker 2 (32:38):
Oh so saying that they did really well in building
in the suspense and and say it built open. And
then you got to that room and Alice's sat there
on on a box and there's one of a crewmates
(32:58):
lying dead on the floor next to her, and you
just don't know to whether to trust her or not.
She seems like an innocent person that this is all
happened to. But then there's just every now and again
there's kind of like a look or you just I
think that.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
The way they would focus the camera on her, it
was like she'd make these faces. It was kind of
but we I think what we learn is that she
knew it was behind her, she just wasn't telling them
at first. She was being deceitful, but not out of uh,
you know, malevolence, just out of wanting to be saved.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Essentially, she wanted to get home and just so I
don't know whether she thought about what the consequences would
be if if she hadn't told them. But the character
when the when it was originally written, wasn't deaf which
I thought was interesting. That's that side of the storyline
(34:00):
came when they cast Rose ali Els. I think it
is is who is a deaf actress. But I think
it added so much to the episode.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
It did. It added not just this compassion, but it
added another element of the suspense because of the way
they needed to communicate with her. I don't know why
I feel that way, but it just kind of did.
Because now you've and because she could be this character
that because she couldn't hear the entity or whatever it was,
(34:36):
if that has no name, the entity is remission impossible.
The thing it so it leans leads to her being
both a victim and someone they can sort of feel
because at one point they want to leave her behind.
They feel like, well, I mean, too bad for you,
but at least you don't know what it's you know,
(34:58):
I don't know. It just added these complicated layers to it.
There were kind of disturbing.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
It was. It was nice to see bsl used in
the episode. Should he actually like.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
You signed a Belinda that you're a nurse and you
don't know how to sign?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It's illegal. Yeah, it was illegal if you were a nurse,
but it wasn't illegal for the troopers because none of
them signed. Yeah, well obviously they had a little little device.
I thought it was clever how they could patch it
to another screen if that if the person wasn't looking
at them, And that obviously was used against Cassio in
(35:39):
that horrible That was the scene that got made the most.
When they're just like the total panic. Yeah, and all
the troopers just flying everywhere. Is Alice kept I think
Alice was trying to keep our eyes on Casio, but
in doing and Cassio was moving right. There was a
couple of the instances before that way she did have
(36:04):
her back to people and nothing happened. Yeah, that was
kind of a bit loose.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Just some bad blocking.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, but as I say, in that, and the fact
that it was midnight, if it stood at midnight, that's
where it was. And the ideas of the clock face,
which when the script the actors were talking about the
script and when they got it the directions that Russell
(36:32):
had written down. Russell wrote this with Sharma Angel Walfall,
who shout out to one of the panda's waterfall Angel.
One of my friends Courtney read that as waterfall Angel.
So we've said she's been Moonlight and doing a bit
of script writing, but he wrote the directions as times
(36:57):
on the clock, while the actors just like, we're totally like,
oh well, we'll worry about that when we get actually
film it, because it was sort of like and such
and such as a two o'clock and you were at
three o'clock, and they were just like, yeah, no, it
probably made totals. I think that's the thing with us all.
He kind of he visualizes everything, and he's very much
(37:24):
a lot of his writing is the stage directions. Yeah,
so that probably totally made sense in his head. But
I think it confused the cast a little bit.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I think they could have just done more camera work
and made it a little more frantic seeming with the camera,
and then we wouldn't have had that a noticeable issue
of her having her back because I thought the same.
I was like, wait, who aren't you all supposed to
be dead at this point?
Speaker 2 (37:52):
She did a spine when the first sort of started
shouting at her, and she did it. She did a
whole three sixty space. If that's the case, every single
one of them would have been.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
That was the thing that made me go, what, But
you know what, it's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
That's fine. You just have to spend it was to
spend disbelief.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Expension of suspension of belief.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
You would get there in the end. I think ra
Zeale and Ellis as Alice was fantastic. I thought she
really was the best thing about that episode, considering the
she had to act and lip reading. Obviously she'd read
(38:38):
the script, but she would have been lip reading the actors.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Imagine it would have been exhausting for her filming because
I know that they get fatigued, you know, from having
to read lips or having to you know, I just
know it's fatiguing. So I thought she did a great job.
And then she gets to go home to her daughter,
which was a lovely result.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
However, however, however, did you know it's the screen they
when they went in the airlock, not obviously shooting and
them didn't get in the air lock, but when Alice
and troopers I think was seven and nine, they said
trooper seven and nine and Alice go in and what
(39:22):
have you. So there was three of them, but the
screen said there was full.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Ew No, I didn't notice. So creepy.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
And then you had the final twist of more after
she's done all of her sort of captain's log, and
then she went goes out in the corridor because she
hears the tardest leaving and then the other trooper has
that reaction. They're already off the planet at this point.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Right, I did see I noticed that part. I didn't
notice the other part.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So basically two of these these are now out in
the universe.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Okay, so you think it's not the same one, you.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Think it can't be it.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I don't know. I don't trust this thing.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
This thing shall not be named, yes, but either way,
it's out there, so there's always a possibility of him.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, so I'll be traumatizing in midnight. Yeah. I it's
a good it's a good evil thing for them to battle,
because we always fear that which we can't see and
that which we can't explain. So the doctor communicates with
(40:40):
it in some way behind Alice and says, it knows
my name, And does that mean like a true name
for the doctor?
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Oh, it could have just been the doctor.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Okay, I didn't know. If there was some thing I
didn't know about.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It could be, but I don't know. They for four
four thousand years, because does it remember him from the last.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Time, and it did, I think, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Or obviously you've got people calling them doctor the whole
time they which could mean that it's his real name
rather than his name that he's given himself. But that's
part of the game, isn't it. It plays plays with people,
So I'm not quite sure if that scene would have
(41:41):
been added to if you could you could hear what
was being said.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Now, I think that not knowing is part of the
it's part of the game. It's part of the fear.
It's part of because even the Doctor seems rattled, although
he figures out of course a way to quote get
away from get it, but not really.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, it seemed like it was mind you. It was good.
It was It was clever, the idea of the mercury
and the reflection, but it didn't All it did was
release Alice. It was still there as an entity, and
it was quite interested in watching Unleashed because it Paul Casey,
(42:31):
who's the main monster man and I think he does
a lot of the choreography stuff now for the monsters
on Doctor Who. He actually wore a mask and he
was behind that's creepy behind Rose when she was like,
they just didn't make it a bit more authentic and
(42:53):
and give her the y basically a feel.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Well, it has something to actually look at, so everybody's
looking at the same you know, fine and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Probably, and when you freeze fra him, it is that
mask that you can see behind it early second, so
they have a sort of like, I'm not going to
do that, Nightmares, I'll send you the screenshirt.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
No, thank you, No, I'm good. I'm good with it.
Having no face and no name and no personality.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
It reminded me. And I don't know whether you've seen
this episode. Back in the day, well it would have
been about two thousand and six, there was an episode
called Love and Monsters, which was a doctor light episode,
so the Doctor and Rus were only seen at the
beginning at the end of the episode. It was about
(43:48):
a bunch of people who wanted to find out more
about the doctor. They kind of they had experiences, and
then there was this but the very beginning of the episode,
the Doctor and Rose were chasing this monster around and
the face was very similar. And I'm undering whether it's
(44:12):
whether it's anything to do whether they've reused a mask
or like repurposed. It just made me think think of
that it probably was, wasn't it probably was a new one,
but very creepy, a very creepy episode.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
I think I could probably seen that, but it was
a long time ago.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
I would say. In terms of this being a sequel
to Midnight, I would say it wasn't as suspense suspenseful,
And I think that that was to do with the
setting because obviously Midnight was on that little ship, but
all in that one room for the pretty much the
(44:52):
whole episode you couldn't get they couldn't get out right,
so you had that those higher stakes where yes, there
were still in one room for the majority of that episode,
but it was a much bigger space. It wasn't as
enclosed it.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
The threat was there, but it, yeah, it's just not
the it's not the locked room mystery necessarily like the
first one was, basically, and I think, like I'm joking
about how it scared me, and really I think what
scared me is the memory of the Midnight episode more
than anything else, because everybody's like you're saying, they're trapped
(45:33):
there together in this one. They could have left, and
they could have left. Alice there and I don't know
it maybe it was maybe that's true. Well they've been
there a while. Maybe maybe leaving her there would have
been even though the not humane thing to do, maybe
the entity wouldn't have escaped. So who knows. That's an
ethical question that it was the right thing to save Alice.
(45:57):
But it also that the entity thing escaped, So.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Worker, Sorry, we had a bust moment. We had a
we had another instance of the doctor willn't sacrifice himself
for his companion, and when the thing, whatever it may be,
jump on my back, goes behind Belinda. I think the
(46:34):
doctor green for Belinda be shot.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
There was an odd scene.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, I guess he trusted her because he knew, like
she already witnessed that she was a good shot, and
but still like shooting somebody basically in that heart.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, it was a little odd. It was like, is
this the best way to do? I don't know, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I guess it. It was a way they had a
trick the thing, because the thing had to believe she
was dead to actually shift both.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
But if they showed up being sort of sentient, like
speaking to the doctor in a way, then wouldn't it
know what they were planning. I don't know, the rules
don't apply.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
They could have used the we don't know where they
can read, so they could he use their little screens.
Oh yeah, but then did that speak for the screen?
Now it's getting to.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, they would have had to speak for the screens.
See now we're pulling it apart. We don't want to
do that. It's actually a pretty good episode.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
That's the thing that was. You can kind of almost
trying to find the thing's wrong with it, and it was.
It was a really enjoyable episode.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
It was a good one.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
The one thing that they did use, which was a
nod back is I was saying about the music earlier.
They actually did slip the midnight theme within the episode
as well. So there was those little There was plenty
of little Easter eggs in there for there was plenty
of Easter eggs in there for fans who've been around
a while. Yeah, but you didn't have I think a
(48:30):
new viewer will be able to follow the episode understand that,
oh the dog has been here before. They said about
how it was diamonds, a planet of diamonds.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
And yeah, so I think that that was the first thing.
And then when Belinda said she saw something, that was
when I was like, ah, that I remember the whole
diamonds ish thing from Because what they do in Midnight
Writer is the ship stewardess or whatever takes the old
lady who's inhabiting the entity and they just jump out
of the ship and burn into the atmosphere because it's
(49:07):
like extremely radiated.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
I thought it was another little nod that had in
was the galvanic radiation that was on the planet. That
was the if you remember back to the Giggle episode,
the beam that they had to shoot the satellites, that
(49:30):
was the galvanic beam. Okay, so we've got a little continuation. Yeah,
tie in too. That's what the trick you know. It
wasn't the trick was it the Trickster? No, it wasn't.
Speaker 1 (49:44):
It was the toy maker.
Speaker 2 (49:47):
Toy maker, that's the one. That's the beam that that
caused the by generation was the galvanic beam. So I
like little little callbacks like that. I like dropping things
in that we've we've had before, we.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Haven't mentioned the important plot point that these people did
not know about the human race or about Earth, and
that was very disturbing to both Belinda and the.
Speaker 2 (50:10):
Doctor and they both found out in separate ways as well.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
And then we have Missus Flood at the end, and
something is going according to her plan apparently.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Yeah, because she was happy that the Vindicated been used.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
So is she one of the gods? Perhaps?
Speaker 2 (50:29):
Is she know the timeload?
Speaker 1 (50:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (50:33):
Is she? Could she be the Master? Maybe you could
pull out all sorts of names. It could be anything,
be to something completely different.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
It could just be Missus Flood.
Speaker 2 (50:44):
She could be trying to save the world for all
we know.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Yeah, she might not be evil.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
She might not be, but I really think she probably is.
And of course after we had that, we've got next week,
we've got send it back. Oh good, So we're going
to have a bit of earth bound shenanigans. I think
we're probably going to have a unit as well, So
(51:10):
that'll be that'd be good.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
Is it going to be a Doctor light episode?
Speaker 2 (51:15):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
That'll be interesting because if they're still on Earth and
the Doctor and Belinda are somewhere where Earth didn't exist,
maybe they're trying to find them.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
But then they were on Earth in Miami. It just
Earth at a different time, so it could be Okay,
So I'm guessing it won't be Earth in the future,
like in the future of between Blinda Levin, because that
was May the twenty third, May the twenty fourth, whatever
the date is. I keep again, it could be that
(51:48):
it's in that time period, though, because I can't imagine
they'd be able to go to the future, as you say,
because it's in the Earth doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
Right, So they were in the future this episode, right,
four hundred thousand.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
Years Yeah, but not on Earth.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
But not on Earth right because it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
We're just all We're just the fans, aren't we were?
We just make believe I just.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Tripped through this experience. Every week. I'm just like, Okay,
what's up next?
Speaker 2 (52:20):
And I think that's the way you've got to watch it.
You just you've got to just enjoy the episodes for
what they are. It's a television show at the end
of the day. It's not life or death.
Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's not it's not.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
And we all have surnames, do we.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
What's that behind you, Karen? Now? It's just Buster.
Speaker 2 (52:47):
All in all? Yeah, really good episode, yeah, yeah, definitely
well done.
Speaker 1 (52:53):
Good effects, yes, good costumes, the SUTs we're good looking
in this one too.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
So when they were talking to Varada. When Varada was interviewed,
she said that she kind of felt more at home
in this episode, and she did reference another Disney Plus show.
She didn't say my name, but she did say she
felt that she had to keep reminding her what job
(53:19):
she was doing because of the costume and everything just
met in the action side of it and what have you.
She kind of that's for andor for anybody who doesn't know,
not that I've seen any of Ando, but.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Else worth watching.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
And the costumes. They wanted them to have Marvel superheroe
type costumes. So they liked that. They did. Mind that's
that's Galifries, you.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Know, that's I mean, that's should be the title of
the episode on that. No, do you have anything else
not ites wise for the listeners.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
No, I think we've covered everything. That just one thing
that I think is worth mentioning. I like the way
they sorry, I'm dying. I like they do go all in.
So they made sure they had a BSL British ign
(54:27):
nanguage consultant on set, should he was having lessons after
the filming or just just to make sure that everything
was being done correctly. All the cast and crew went
on the death of the crew definitely. I'm not sure
about the cast did a deaf awareness course just to
(54:48):
make people a bit more away. Ruse herself had an
interpreter on set, so obviously for the if the director
and anyone was given it any notes to make her
life as straightforward as it possibly could be in this situation.
(55:08):
So I like that they go to that extent with this.
They want that authentic sort of experience and to make
sure to do it right, and it was it was
really nice to say on the on the behind the
scenes stuff. I think it was on YouTube where she
would be going to Rose at the end of the
scene and saying, did I do that right? I did?
This is out the correct sign And just making sure
(55:29):
that he's doing it properly and treating it has been
an important aspect. So I really like that. I really
appreciated that.
Speaker 1 (55:40):
Yeah, it was a nice touch in the episode, and
it would have been easy just to have them all
doing everything correctly. But they even show at one point
Alice saying can you please you know, look at me,
so I know what you're talking about, and just that
the way that everyday life is very different for somebody
who's hearing impaired like that, and even the smallest thing
(56:03):
of just not looking at them while you're speaking is
something that leads to lack of accommodation. So yeah, it
was very well done.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
And in that scene as well, I think doctor was
using a deafness against it because he purposely turned his
back on them and was saying about like sort of
haven't it that couldn't leave with them because it couldn't
take the thing with them. But then he kind of
(56:31):
he apologized, he turned around and he signed sorry, So
his conscious seemed to sort of kick in at that
point and I shouldn't I shouldn't be doing that. But yeah, no,
all good.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, very good episode. Well we shall see about when
we can cast for the next one or two. Tis
that time of year where things are busy, but we're
trying to get the episodes out. Do you want to
plug anything.
Speaker 2 (57:01):
Karen, Nope, nothing maya all right?
Speaker 1 (57:07):
While the aforementioned and or is being covered on Always
Watching by myself, Ashley Scotti and Jeff if he's available.
And so the first episode for episodes one through three
are out and then Thunderbolts comes out this week, which
is very very exciting, and Brian and I will be
doing our primer on Centree this week, so that'll be fun.
(57:27):
And there's just all kinds of amazing geeky things out
there do enjoy right now. So on that note, we'll
say tata for now bye. Thank you for listening to
Source Pages, a reading collective, a proud member of the
Stranded Panda Network. If you would like to contact us,
(57:48):
you can email Spark podcast at gmail dot com that's
Spark with a C, or follow us on Twitter at
source pages cast. For this and other great shows. You
can visit Strandedpanda dot or join the great community that
is the Strandedpanda Chat Facebook group at facebook dot com,
slash groups slash sp chat, and remember, let readings spark
(58:11):
your imagination
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