Timey Wimey Talk: A Doctor Who SPaRCast - Lucky Day, The Story & The Engine, and The Interstellar Song Contest Reactions - Source Pages: A Reading Collective

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Don't blink, because another episode of Timey Whymy Talk is
here talking about Doctor Who episodes four, five and six,
Lucky Day the story and the Engine and the Interstellar
Song contest. But first messages will be then it's time

(00:32):
for the podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to Timey Whymy Talk, the podcast picker on the inside.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm Karen and I'm Haley, and we're talking about it
about Brian and Liz are off in the Tartars in
parts unknown.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Could be anyway, it could be, we don't know. And
so we'll get them back on me the twenty fourth.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yes, yeah, yeah, they'll be They'll be back, don't worry.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
So yeah, we've got Lukie Day story and the Engine
and the Interstellar Song contest to talk about today.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
I know it's been we've been lax because of other commitments,
but today's a big one and it kind of starts
off down here and really ends up at the top
with the Interstellar Song contest and.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Leads us really well in our two part finale as well.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Mm hmmm. And we have to have the whole crew
together for that mandatory, So take us away, Karen, right.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
So Lukie Day, so Ruby Sunday faces life back on
Earth without the doctor. But when a dangerous new threat emerges,
can Ruby and Unit save her new boyfriend Conrad from
the terrifying Shriek. So what did you think about Lookie Day.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
I loved having Ruby Sunday back. I really like Millie
and I miss her as the companion because she was
more I like Verda fine, but she's I don't know.
Millie was just very like effervescent and happy to be
along for the ride. And Belinda's always happy like after

(02:22):
the fact, like.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
She just wants to get home the whole adventure idea.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Yeah, she's not really into it. So I like that
Ruby and too. I like the examination of what happens
to the companions once they're you know, left alone again.
And she still remembers all of it and all of that,
and so she's like feeling this huge sense of loss
and missing the adventures and missing the doctor.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
And the story was based pretty much straight after she
would have made that decision not to go with the doctor,
so it was all very fresh for her. All those
emotions almost PTSD a little bit.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, and you would, right, I mean, you go through
all these life and death experiences.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, she had just basically seen soup tech to everybody
at dust.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Right, the world almost ended, and she found her birth mom.
Major things.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
So the episode started way back in two thousand and seven.
That sounds really strange. In two thousand and seven's way
back year.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
I graduated from high school.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I was, I was already teaching by that point. Bloss
over that one and we met a young Conrad eight
years old, and he was at New Year's Eve celebrations
in London and met the doctor and changed his life.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
Mm hm.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
And I thought it was interesting because that fifty p
coin that the doctor gave him he kept and he
wore it around his neck. So for him jump straight
to the twist in the story for him to be

(04:15):
so it's all made up, it's all all lies. It's
what UNIT want us to know. To me, it's kind
of like that was really strange, how m. He obviously
knew that the doctor was real. You met the doctor,
he saw the toddest disappear, yet he had this whole

(04:40):
something festering them within him.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
And it was more about it's been several weeks now
since I watched it. It was just kind of that
he felt othered. Is that what it sort of was like, oh,
I didn't get to go on these adventures and take
you down.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
And also he didn't get the job at UNIT.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Oh okay, yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
So I think it was a bit of a mixture.
It was just like a bitterness to anything related with
Unit and the doc there, and he played the long
game though. I know, I built up this reputation doing
the podcast and just to try and get in with Unit, and.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
You know what it was like, it was like a
Mysterio and Spider Man far from Home.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yeah, it was actually.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
The bitter not ex employee, but didn't get the job employee.
I hate, I hate that. I did start to suspect
him at one point. I thought it was creepy the
way he you know, wormed his way into Maybies world
so fast too nice. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Gotta say the twist still got us. So I thought
there was something about him, but I didn't expect it
to be so extreme mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
And I didn't expect Kate's reaction to him there at
the end where she about lett him be killed by
the Shriek because she was so furious with him.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
I think, yeah, I think the turning point was that
was as soon as he brought the brigadier into it
to Kate's dad, who basically devoted his life to Unit
and protecting this planet against all sorts of weird and
wonderful doctor who aliens and monsters and threats for him

(06:37):
to turn around and just say that the break was
basically one big corn. His life had been the corn
and they would drain in the government's resources. And I
think that flicked the switch in Kate because like she
looks up to our dad so much, well obviously because
she's followed in his footsteps.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
So yeah, he got pretty ark there though.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Yeah, definitely, even even sort of like the I can't
remember I love interest, the he's not a colonel, I
can't remember what he is.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I think he's colonel Oh the security guy.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah, one of one of the unit soldiers. Even he
tried to step in and it was straight away shippulled rankly.
It was kind of no, I'm not. This is sort
of like, this is what needs to be done.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
And it took to have a romantic entanglement.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, well it was hinted at, wasn't it, at the end
of the SEU Tech episode where there was seen holding
hands and then obviously in this episode, Kate was in
the office late at night and he a look.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Working over time, that's.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
What we call it these days. And as well, with
the walk between the land and the sea, I think
that's probably something that's going to be developed a bit more.
I think there was a bit of a hint in
this episode too to that series coming up, because mentioned
that Mel was on our way to Sydney and there's
something strange happening in the harbor, and I was just

(08:09):
thinking that could be a little bit of a nod
towards how the walk between the Land and the Sea
might start. So I thought that was quite interesting. I
just I had laugh when it was like a doctor
who inspired podcast. I thought that sounds familiar.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, I heard of such a thing.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Oh, and the return of Cherry Sunday. I love Cherry Sunday.
His grandma's great.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
I liked seeing all of her family together. It was nice.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Yeah, how Louise a birth moment is just sort of
integrated into that family unit. It was lovely to say.
As well. I had when Cherry was going on about
all English villagers turned around and she just watched the
Wicked Man.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, it's true. As I was watching brit Box earlier.
It's all kinds of nefarious things that happened in English.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Villagers can't be trusted.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Be trusted at all. I felt bad for Ruby by
the end though, because even though Una believes her, like
she wants somebody else to talk to you about these things,
because whenever you have something strange happened to you, you kind
of want to tell anybody you can. But people just
think she's crazy. So she's just kind of back to
where she.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Was, yeah, because she thought she had that with Conrad
some where it could just be totally herself, totally open.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
But I did like the comment made by Shirley where
she said about Ruby Cleechton mothers because before before she
said that, I was like, Kate's another map. Yeah, there
was a few nods two past who past knew? Who

(10:05):
should I say? Because when we were in the factory
with the streak, originally they had lots of the mannequins
that was very reminiscent of the very first episode with Rules,
and I wondered whether they were going to go the
auton route that was just total misdirectly and then also
the appearance of Trinity Wells. I love Trinity Wells. Wells

(10:30):
is the news American newscaster. He used to appear in
pretty much every episode back in the original RTD E.
If anything was happening, you'd get in news flash sort
of from Trinity Wells. So that was that was cool
to stay here back again. But also I thought it
was interesting that all the sort of news were back

(10:54):
in Conrad. It was sort of like all all the
response to what had happened with Unit and them getting arrested,
all of that media input was all sort of like
being on Conrad side and questioning Unit and the methods
of Unit and believe in his lies basically, And it

(11:16):
was really that big the whole in netural and how
there's people out there on the Internet who have a
very big impact on particularly young people. There's a certain
person who I'm not even going to say his name
on this podcast because it's not his name's not worth mentioning,

(11:41):
but he's had a big impact on especially young males
and how they treat females, as has been very much
in the press over here.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Was this RTD write this episode?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
When did you write this episode?

Speaker 1 (12:01):
No? Did he?

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Did he.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Know?

Speaker 2 (12:04):
It was written by Pete mctye.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Okay, I was gonna say, it seems like throughout some
of the Shooty episodes, social media and the you know,
sharing of misinformation is a common theme. Even though there's
another side of the coin, right, of course, you can
do amazing things through social media, it just feels like

(12:26):
often that's not what we see or what we experience,
and so it does seem to be like kind of
a through line.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
And you don't get a story out of the good stuff.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
To you no, of course not, so.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
You're going to concentration. I think Doctor Who historically, but
particularly in this sort of new era, has been very
much looking at what's happening in society, what's happening politically,
even sort of like when we get the in estella
song contest, there was even a bit of that dropped in.

(12:58):
So but as I say, it's always done that and
that's what keeps it relevant. I think you've got to
sort of move with the times. It's got to be
able to sit up in the future for future audiences watching,
so you kind of deep dive so much into it.
But I think it does it just enough for people

(13:20):
to think, to make people think, and give make people
more aware of certain certain things in society that are happening.
I'm just quickly looking to see if I haven't really
discussed anything. It was interesting we haven't talked about the

(13:42):
end Missus Flood's appearance. So we had our obligatory Missus
Flood appearance right right. This run was right at the
very end, but it was well. First of all, we
had the Doctor's appearance. So the Doctor magically got Conrad
into the the tardis and give him what for?

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, because he's in prison. Yeah, I
see the Doctor going dark a little more this season.
I kind of like it.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Definitely, we're definitely getting more of a range from from
she and the Doctor. There was there was a lot
of pure exilariance and joy and mixed with tears. Last seasons,
sure we see, but this season we've definitely seen more
emotional sights to the Doctor. And I think Shoty's smashed

(14:33):
it out of the park, quite honest.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
He's oh yeah, I love that reminder of No the
Doctor for all of their whimsy and their zaniness. You know,
they are a tyme lord, and they can they know
so many things and they can do so many things.
And so him telling Conrad like, I know exactly when
you die and how you die, and you die alone

(14:56):
and nobody cares. Like that's one of the darkest things
you could say to somebody.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
And you're going to be very young when you die
as well, because thirty six or something like that, when.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, something pretty young.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
I am. Yeah, he was very he can be very
the timeload victorious sort of thing. I'm the last one
of my kind. I've lived through it all I can. Basically,
I'm the lord of time. I can do what I
want kind of omnis.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
Like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
However, that did bite him on the bum at the
end of Tenant's first era because he did get a
bit too cocky with that and it ended up being
his downfall. But yeah, so that was good. The fact that,
of course this was pre Belinda, he had met Belinda yet,
and Conrad kind of put that name in the doctor's mind.

(15:52):
So is that why the doctor went looking for Belinda
in the hospital? Maybe say that's that sort of that
just dropped that little nugget in there. But say back
to missus Flood being the prison warden, yeah, and basically
handing them handing him the keys and letting him free.
Which we know we kind of know now that that.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Doesn't really work out for him anyway, that changed what
the doctor told.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Him, Well, probably not, given that he will return, which,
as I say, we talked about it after this episode
was filmed. Millie Gibson did come out and say that
she will be returning for the two part FINALI so
that's o ye as well.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Conrad, so I'm not excited to hear as we see
him die?

Speaker 2 (16:47):
Well, yeah, you never know. He's not old enough, That's.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
What I'm saying. Maybe missus Flood has like changed the
stream of time by letting him free quite possibly.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
And I know I think it was TJ mentioned that
the actor who played Conrad was the prince in The
Little Mermaid, the live action Little Mermaid. Okay, I was
watching redacted and not redacted. My brain's gone somewhere unleashed. Sorry,

(17:23):
and Jonah Hava Kings the actor's name who played Conrad,
and he was saying, it's the first time he's played
a role of this nature. He's always played the sort
of the nice to say, the handsome prince in Eric,
so he really enjoyed the being able to play the villain.

(17:43):
I think it probably was for an actor as well.
It gives you more to work with, doesn't it. It's
more fun.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
It was fun. There were times when I was doing
musical theater I'd get cast frequently as the villains or
the bad girl role, which is you know, pretty counter.
But it was more fun so anything else unlucky day.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I think pretty much the way had the green goo
that was what marked the pheromones, that marked the prey.
When when we were looking at the behind the scenes
stuff they did have it actually made a proper pot
with labels and everything, and it was called green goo.

(18:31):
Do a whole sort of like proper, proper little potent
label that was green green pot. We also got a
little throwback as well to Ruby's time when she mentioned
that she just met the Beatles, so that a little
bit of a nod to the Devil's code as well.
So there's always those little little things dropping in, little

(18:52):
bits of throwbacks, and whether it be to the currency
incarnation or Knew Who or even all too so, it's
we're getting that continuity, I think the worder I mean so,
but yeah, good episode. Enjoyed it, did you say it?
Really enjoyed seeing Millie again? She brings a different energy

(19:14):
to Belinda. I go, as I say, we have that
family dynamic that we've had hinted at with Belinda, but
we haven't actually seen how we're going to meet Blinda.
Family may never exactly.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
So so yeah, very good.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Good episode.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
So the story under the Engine and.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
The Engines the episode five, So the Story and the
Engine in Legos, the mysterious Barber reigned supreme. The Doctor
discovers the world where stories have power, but can he
stop the Spider and his deadly web of revenge?

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Episode it was different. I didn't mind it. I told you,
I think it suffered from being too long. I think
that they could have made it a shorter episode and
that would have helped. So there was this moment that
I'm going to skip to the big plot twits when
the Barber says, when you know, he's asked who are you?

(20:15):
Who are you? And he says, I'm all of these
different gods and he mentions a Nansi, which is an
African god about storytelling, and I was like, oh, that's
exactly what I thought this was, Like, I thought that
he was going to be a Nanci and that was
going to make sense. And then they go some other way,
And I didn't really understand was he supposed to be
like the story recorder for the gods? Ye okay, so

(20:41):
it lost me a little bit.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
It was his job to basically catalog and write down
the stories, because the stories initially started as a spoken word,
and that they would be get passed down through generations.
Obviously in the times before there were things like television books,
so it would sit around the fire and tell stories.

(21:03):
And then obviously those stories started getting written down because
when you tell stories verbally, obviously they get changed over time.
So the written word you have that consistency in the story.
And it was his role to really basically he was
like the marketing guru.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, the gods, so we have another pissed off employee
story isn't.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Basically because he built this wonderful machine which was to
collect all these stories and spread them out. But the machine,
the nexus, ended up working without the need for him,
without him. Yeah, so the gods kind of said, all right,

(21:48):
you don't hear pay forty five what we have over
here when you lose the job, and and of course
then you got similar to Conrad, you got that that
bitness and that want for revenge, so which I hadn't
clicked until you mentioned this, so.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
It's like, well, I was like, am I following this
because they kind of and some of these two episodes
they do this to me where I'm like, I think
I missed something, but I didn't actually miss it. They
just don't like go into it very deeply.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah. I think there's a a sometimes an expectation on
who fans that I'm.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Not that smart, we'll just get it. I felt really
smart when he mentioned a Nancy and I was like, oh, yeah,
that's what I thought, and then he was like just kidding,
and I was like why.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
As well, why if what was he spinning to the
daughter of a Nancy because he obviously hadn't told her
he was a Nancy because she would go, well, no,
that's right, So he must have spun her a different web,
keep the spy their analogy going in order to get

(22:59):
her on side. So I thought that was that was
a bit confused.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
And as her piece of it, I agree was the
weakest part. And I again, I think they just waited
too long in the episode to make her an important
piece of the story, because then I think the impact
just wasn't there. For me, I think the message really
she outranks him at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
The message like heard people, heard people.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
Was a good sentiment. But as you say, if it
had been used a bit earlier in that twist a
little bit, well, it wasn't a twist, but involved the reveal.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
Yeah, story, I guess so he like you're saying, hurt people,
hurt people. He preyed on her anger at her father
for gambling her away the way he did, so she
was his that way.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, and the fact that it was the doctor that
he gambled her way too, And yeah it was well
it wasn't just any doctor, it was the future of doctor. Yes,
we had a nice little bit.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
It wasn't he a twisted web.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
We had to get Joe Martin in there. Somehow.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
I liked it overall. I just I just think I
maintained it could have been shorter.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Why do you think we saw we But Belinda saw
Captain Poppy from Space Babies.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
I missed that.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
So when she was in the alley before she got
to the barbershop, she saw a little girl in the
alleyway and Gli caught her attention for a moment and
then when she turned back, the little girl was gone.
So that was Captain Poppy from Space Babies.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Okay, so mostly tried to forget about Space Babies.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
There was I think the doctor said something about the
stories leaking out.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
I was going to say that place. He says, it's
like it's legos, but it's not and it's real, but
it's not kind of a thing. So maybe it was
because it was Yeah, things were strands were getting you know,
strung together weirdly or something like that.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
I wonder whether we'll see anything similar in our finale episodes.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, of course Belinda would know who Captain Poppy is. No,
that was a million episode, so.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
That should just be like, hey, kid, So was the
doctor was something that we didn't see one of the
stories that doctor told? Did the doctor tell the space
maybe story in the barber shop? And I don't know that.
Just that just got me got me wondering. And the
writer of the episode innywhere Ellams, was actually born in Nigeria,

(25:54):
so he's pulling from a lot of personal sort of experience.
He also wrote a play called The Barbershop Chronicles, which
RTTD RTD had seen the play and he thought that
the idea of the barbershop and how especially in sort
of African communities, it's a central place, especially from from males,

(26:18):
where they would talk and share stories and and it's
almost like a community within a community, like a space,
a safe space. So to then bring that into Doctor
Who and as it happens in your elms is also
a huge Doctor Hufan. He used to watch it in
Nigeria back in the eighties, so he's been something that

(26:43):
he always wanted to do and he got when he
got the message she asked him if he'd be interested, right,
and the barbershop idea coming up, he grabbed it with
both hands.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Well, and I like that. We've seen Shooty's version of
the Doctor received of treatment in their different adventures based
on who he is, and so I like that he
was able to call out to that and say I
can fit in here and I won't get mistreated or
get stared at here because this body actually can belong here.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, that was nice and they showed it really well
in the two when Belinda when the Doctor went through
the market as opposed to when Belinda went through the
market and Belinda was in a panic and worried about
the doctor because of what had happened in the chargest.
But the doctor was going through and calling everybody sort
of like yeah, brother and there, and that was sort

(27:41):
of like he was. He felt like he was at
home and he just like the pure joy of it was.
Belinda was just like pushing people aside and pushing through
and and actually the right made in a cameo because
when she want into something among the stalls and the
police officer came, the stallholder was in New Ellams, So

(28:02):
to pay for that, ma'am or yeah, So that was
our writer. So some of the cast as well, most
of the cast inside the barbershop had actually worked together
and knew each other, so that to have those relationships
already in place, they were all sort of like quite

(28:24):
friendly with each other. There was only one of the
men in the barbershop who hadn't worked with anyone in
the past that also worked with Blinder Yeah, in the
past as well, so it was a bit of a
bit of a reunion going on. Some of them had

(28:44):
also worked on the Barbershop Chronicles play, so there's a
lot of history, a lot of history there within the
within the cast. There was a six words story mentioned
towards the end as well, and that looking a little
bit more into it, that was the story which is

(29:07):
said to be Ernest Ernest Hemingway, but apparently it's been misattributed,
which was for sale baby shoes never worn, and I
have heard that before somewhere. I've someone I think someone
challenged them that he couldn't write a story in six words.
So that was that. Missus Flood's appearance in this one

(29:29):
was a little bit different because it was a flashback
of Belinda's story, and I thought that story also helped
give Blinda a bit more characterization shown in her nurse's role,
but shown how she was willing to forego things in

(29:50):
her own life to do that role, to do that
role completely, how she she helped and stayed there for that.
That lady thought that was a nice and that she was.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Being misdiagnosed, but the Bulunda advocated for her. Yeah, yeah,
your nurses will be your advocates more than your doctor's people.
But he's married to a nurse.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
It was It was nice to see that side, even
though obviously we have seen her in that role sort
of in the robot Revolution. We saw a little bit
that as well, when she was in the bunker, but
so missus Flood. It was it was a non entity
really of an appearance in this one where ye through
the corridor. But I suppose they had to get her

(30:38):
in somehow, and yeah, she had to be play a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
It would have Yeah, it would have been a little
off putting, perhaps.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Who's a white woman? That was an interesting that the end,
when obviously we had the the Doctor over Law did
the machine saying well, I've got so many stories. It's
like my stories are never ending. And the screens. How

(31:09):
they used the screens to show all the different incarnations
of the doctors from all different stories. It's quite funny
because for some reason we've got we had appearances of
every Doctor except the seventh as far as I could tell,
which I thought was whether that was just a by mistake.

(31:30):
I'm not sure what happened there, but I don't think
there was a Sylvester McCoy episode in there. Because we
had the Daleks for the first Doctor, two of the
Cybermen for the second, Spearhead and Space. He has lots
of episodes Fight to watch Haley write them down Ford,
which was a Seo Tech episode for the Fifth Doctor,

(31:53):
we had the five doctors, so each each doctor had
and we even had a bit of space babies in
there and the giggles, so right up to modern day.
Just the fact that the barber thought that all these
stories would power his engine to get them there, Quicker went.

(32:13):
In fact, it was just it was just too much,
too much information. Total power of the doctor. Well, you
don't underestimate, and.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
But people continue to the fools, the fools they are.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
The fact that there was that sort of no would
you call it a redemption arc at the end where
the barber was kind of.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Forgiving more of an acceptance, I think, yeah, yeah than
redemption because what's done has been done. Yeah, but everybody
got to go home, so I suppose it was okay,
and I don't think more of an acceptance of this
as who you are.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
And the fact that the barber decided, the actual barber,
Ormo decided that he was going to retire, yes, and
he gifted the shop to the barber.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
This is where we get another aspect of the doctor
being less kind, as he was very mean to Omo
and Omo yeah and was like, don't ever speak to
me again. You brought me here under false pretenses. I
don't blame him though, I mean, but because do you

(33:32):
want to help people? He brought you here to help.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
But his whole, the whole thing was he wanted to
go there because that was the one place he was
accepted and that's the one place where people sort of
metaphorically put their arms around him. And and then for
those to be the people who betrayed him, essentially maybe
the biggest betrayal, betrayal of all because you expected from

(33:57):
other people, but he didn't expect it from or more
in that sense, So I can't I can't relate in
that sense. Maybe it was a bit of slightly overreaction.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
But it's been a while.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Were there five years or something before? I don't think
I've got enough stories to have lasted for that long.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
I think they were just were they just making them
up by the end, and that's why it wasn't working
as well.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Oh well, one of the there was an actual traditional
story the one that I can't remember what the story was,
but the one that was told at the beginning is
it was an actual story from Nigerian culture. I believe.
I found the set very authentic. It felt like you

(34:49):
were really there. The only shot of Nigeria was the
drone shot at the very beginning. The rest of it
was all set.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
The mark felt very practical. Well yeah, sometimes doctor who
doesn't just doesn't.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah, we'll get the interstellar.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
What.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
But with that, it was the fact that that market
set was put up, it was only used for one day,
and the detail that and the time that must have
gone into that set, and there was about I think
they said eighty extras on that set as well, so
it was a big thing just for for one day.

(35:35):
They also had a Nigerian consultant on set to make
sure that everything was it was how it should be,
So that was that was good. I do appreciate because
like they had the sign language expert for Rose Elling's episode,
I think just the commitment to doing things right I appreciate. See. So, yeah,

(36:02):
we mentioned the appearance of the Fugitive Doctor. She did
say her story wasn't over yet, so there is opportunities
for for us to get more of the Fugitive Doctor
in time. Yeah. I think I did what I did

(36:25):
right down. I was doing all my little bit of
digging around and I totally misdirected myself because just going
back to Luckie Day, I was edging my way towards
Missus Flood being being the Master, perhaps because but that
being the governor and the Governor and Master are synonyms.

(36:49):
And I was like, but we'll get to that in
a little bit answer. And I also noticed that at
the premiere we had Joe Martin and Michelle Gomez was
also at so I was going, oh, definitely, it's definitely
Missy then, because Joe Martin's appeared in this episode. So
if if it's the Governor's Master and Missy, so yeah,

(37:12):
so totally wrong you were.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
You were like, my theory as one hundred percent right,
only should be proven wrong.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
In the next episode. I had a whole week of
being for once, for once, I've worked it out. No,
completely wrong, never mind.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
But you weren't the only one. I think that was
a very popular theory.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Well, we had all we had all sorts of theories
and things circling, and I think who it turned out
to be was one of the theories. I think Romana
was was who is an old who character? Also Timeload
was one as well, because of the member of the

(37:57):
Cape that mist the very end of the last episode,
so people were reading a lot in it and that
was probably our TD's idea. Yeah, just like these all
these myster ICs.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
And there make you think all the wrong things, but.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
We will find out in the Estella sound contest.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yes, a very good episode.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Yeah, I think out of the three, I think I agree.
I think the story in the Engine was the one
I enjoyed the least. I enjoyed it. It was fine,
But I think we've had this season compared to the
last season. This has been a much stronger season story wise,

(38:40):
and the story and the Engine is probably sort of
probably my least.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
A little weaker, but it served a good purpose of,
like you said, with Belinda's story and rounding out her
character a little more for us, because we just aren't
seeing her in her natural world like where she normally lives,
and so we don't have a very good sense exactly
if Hubalinda is except for she's who wants to go home.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
And she's basically whipped out of that light. Yeah, right
at the very beginning, So there's been no and because
they can't go back obviously that's the series we've never
had the little drip feeds really.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
So so it kind of hammered home that she's she
is a compassionate person, yes, which the Doctor needs as
we're about to see in the Interstellar Song Contest.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
So the Interstellar Song Contest the Doctor's quest to get
Linda back home to earthly to a space station hosting
the famous Interstellar Song Contest, but a harmless night, the
fun soon becomes a battle to survive. I've got to
say a huge Eurovision fan.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
And they aired this the week of Eurovision.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
The day it was literally eight before Eurovision last night.
It had all the right vibes. This has been the
episode I've been looking for to all see all the
season and it didn't let me down at all.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
It was very good.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
It was good. Do you want a little part of
history of Eurovision for people who aren't really aware. So
Eurovision is basically a song contest, a televised song contest
which was started back in the nineteen fifties in a
way of trying to unify Europe after the Second World War,

(40:38):
So that was the purpose of it. It was also
as well a way of working out doing similar casts
across countries, something that hadn't been done before, so that
we're using that as basically a way of seeing if
they could do it. So each country from Europe and

(40:58):
a couple of others, including Australia, but don't ask since
an entry Australians. Australia got included in it for I
think it was the sixtieth anniversary.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
I might be wrong, and.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
They've been part of it since there's that many countries now,
because obviously you had the USSR breakup, you had Czechoslovakia
break up. So what's happened is now we've got so
many countries in Europe, we've got to have semi finals.
So we have two semi finals and then and the
big four who automatically go to the final, they perform

(41:35):
live and then the people judge. So we had that
last night, Haley, you had me messaging O. I don't
know whether that was actually run now. I did say
Europe at one point. It can get a little bit political,
which wow leaks in this episode quite a bit. So yeah,

(41:59):
the use of that was really good, just to give
you a bit of an idea. So last night it
was the sixty ninety Eurovision Song Contest, So next year
you'll be the seventieth aniversary. Viewing figures seven point seven
million people watched it last year in the UK to
give you an idea doctor who this season has averaged

(42:19):
one point eight million, So it's it's a huge audience
and you can get one hundred two hundred million worldwide
view in it, so it is huge. It's absolutely huge.
And it's also a world record holder for the longest
running televised competition music competition, I think. So, yeah, we've

(42:45):
got a lot of history. U vision. It is camp,
it is colorful, it is weird, it is wonderful. The
UK won it the year I was born. Brotherhood man,
and it's just yeah, it's one of my favorite nights
of the year. I love it, although it does go
on late and I'm getting old now.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Well I know you were texting me and I was like, man,
it's getting late over there for care and to still
be awake.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Yeah, I've never been a night out and yes midnight
wasn't too bad. It could have been worse, but it's
a four hour Sure, you've got to have some stay
in power and you've got to have some wine. It's
how you get through. But yeah, it's it's if you
haven't seen it, just put yourself through. When you you'll

(43:35):
I'll go on YouTube. There's some wonderful videos out there.
So anyway, that was the sort of inspiration behind the
Instellic song contest. RTD had pitched it to Juno Dawson
as U Vision meets die Hard, So that's what you wanted.
He wanted the wonderfulness of your revision with the sort

(43:58):
of action perhaps will terrorism sort of element to it.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
The writer Juna Dawson actually has hasn't written an episode
of Doctor Who before, but did write there was a
podcast series called Redacted which she wrote and I believe
was one of the parts played one of the part
in it and huge massive Doctor Who fans. So there

(44:28):
is a bit of a theme coming through with with
the writers. A lot of them do have that that history,
and I think that also brings a bit of care
into the writing as well.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
So I think that Juno's episode compared to the previous
one was more fleshed out too, Like there aren't as
many dangling participles as there were in the story and
the engine where you have to try to make the
sleep to make the connection. They're all made for you.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
It was nice for stupid people like me.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
I don't think. Yeah, they everything out. I know, I
know you're coming from short, but I know where it
comes from. Lots of lots of different themes in it,
sort of like the couplist expectation, prejudice, revenge, acceptance, terror, vision,
terror vision, terrorism, oppression, genocide. It's like in when you

(45:24):
think the episode of about forty minutes long, what was
packed in there? And also the fact that the song
contest itself was actually such a small element, right, it
was just.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
The vehicle for this act of like you said, terrorism
and what.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Better because I say, was saying about the viewing audiences
of Vieurovision obviously just said he had three trillion life
forms are watching and that's who he was talking. So
it's like mass genocide.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Ye on a scale and you know, never heard of,
which really triggers the doctor to have his heart iced
over it. He says, but.

Speaker 2 (46:15):
He's got that, he hasn't he he's lost his own,
his own race. Saying about his.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Makes perfect sense, like it triggered something.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
He thinks he's lost. Belinda. Yeah, And obviously that trope
of the doctor and the companion getting separated his We've
got like so many examples of that. I thought it
was interesting, which I have seen before, where the companion
has found out that the doctor's alive, and the doctor say,
but the doctor doesn't know that they right, Yeah, I

(46:48):
can't think that there is a story in the recent
past way they've done that, but obviously that gets us,
gets Belinda to the doctor to then to then stop him.
I think she played that so well that I do too,
that the revenge, the anger, the vindictiveness, that it just

(47:10):
showed a completely different side of this doctor. And I
think he just played it so well.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
This doctor is all about passion one way or the
other basically, and Shooty is a really good catalyst for
that because he's so expressive and so yeah. I mean
I was afraid of him when he was zapping that
HELLI and person kid kid kid like a goat.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
That was quite sad though, because he was called kid because.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
He yeah, no, it was the goat thing made me
laugh just it hadn't they just been talking about goats
too or something? Am I thinking of something else? I
don't know, I don't know, I miss that one, I
don't know. So yeah, I liked this episode a lot.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
And I think with the emotions of the doctor, he's
almost is most of the time. It's played next dreams.
So like when it's Joey, it's pure joy and they
say this anger was it was cold, it was, it
was it was really harsh. Yeah, but this when he

(48:16):
basically saw himself in Belinda's reaction, like the reality of
the situation and the horror of what he was doing
that when he took the glove off, Yeah it was. Yeah,
it was kind of like.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
But balance with the horror of what Kid was trying
to accomplish. I mean, it's it's an understandable reaction. But
then when like you say, he sees Belinda reflecting in
him and then realizing, actually, you know what, I have
everything here that I need to fix this and I
don't have to do it by myself.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
And I think it was the fact that he even
though he incapacitated kid, he kept going, didn't stop, and
I think he.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Knew well, so these flashes of the granddaughter, oh, those
weren't even pulling him out of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
So we had the hint of the granddaughter and the
Devil's called last Year, and we got the return of
Susan in this episode, just as it was with think
visions flashbacks for the dog there played by the original
actress Caroline Ford who Caroline Ford played Susan in the

(49:33):
first two series in six, nineteen sixty three, nineteen sixty four. Wow,
she would have had the world record of the longest
between appearances, but she did appear in two anniversary specials.
She appeared in the twentieth anniversary special and the thirtieth
anniversary specials. So William Russell, who appeared at the end

(49:56):
of Judy Whittakers series in the self help group that
the Companion's had, he still holds the world record between appearances,
which I think was fifty seven years.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
That's quite a while.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
I don't think anyone's gonna gonna beat that one. So yeah,
it was really nice to say Susan back and she
was overjoyed to be back as well. So interview with
her and her and Russell hadn't met.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
It was just.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Carol and Ford had been invited to the premiere of
the specials and they had this meeting and RTD just
said on the spot, do you want to come back?
You're coming back. She was over the moon, So that
that was really nice and the fact that that was
what kind of snapped the doctor out of his frozen state.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yes, yeah, I like that. I don't snap him out
of torturing kid.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
No, well, yeah though she tried, she did try tried,
but he kind of he kind of like tried to
shake that memory often or that vision out of his head.
Can we just talk about the confetti canon?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Yeah, let's shall.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Can we pay to get the dock there back to
the space station?

Speaker 1 (51:21):
And doesn't that when he says that, that was just like,
oh yeah, that's so your vision. I don't think the
physics of that make a ton of sense. But maybe
it's because they're in the mavity.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yes, we have come back. I like them sticking with
Mavidy just quietly gone back to gravity. But and it
was used loads in this episode, was all the time
the Mavity field, because because that's what he was doing
as well, because when he was spiddling on the pod

(52:01):
bit and he realized something was going, that's when he
tweaked them up.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah, magically new to make sure the field was expanded.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
He's going to break the ceiling, so I suppose, Yeah,
you couldn't have everybody dying.

Speaker 1 (52:17):
So that would have been attached too dark even.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
Before, I don't think there'd be any coming back for.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
The two to one hundred thousand people kind.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
Of yeah, pushing Frock. So there was I like how
they did use some of the original, well of some
Eurovision actual songs in the episode, especially at the end
when they were bringing all the people back and using
the cryogenesis pod thing. Yeah, Ryland's pod we had because

(52:53):
we had books face making your mind up. We had
Abba Waterloo, and we also had country Diverse Rise like
the Phoenix used in this episode, which I thought, Yeah, brilliant,
all great songs, all great winners of Eurovision as well.
So I thought that was good. I thought the songs
that we didn't really see that many songs, but the

(53:15):
songs that we did see.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
They were good.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
I can't remember what was a little weird alien little.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Lizard Lady was from Lizard World, Lizard Lizard.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Co I don't know, but there was the cartoony or
like something like Boogaboo or something like that.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
Oh yeah, the little tiny like and we see it
floating out in the mavity field when they pull Ryland
back in.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
They were they were totally like spot on, like daft. Yeah,
we've had some brilliant weirdness or usion over the years,
and so the songs were written. Were a mixture between
Juno Dawson, R. T. D. And Murray Gold between them
kind of wrote the songs that appeared. I thought it

(54:03):
was good. How they didn't put the final song in English.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Yes, I think it was very moving.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Still, yeah, I think it had the impact. I think
if you put sort of recognizable lyrics in there, I
don't think it would have had the same impact.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
Well, and the point being that not everyone understands this,
but everyone understands.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
It exactly and bringing that's all say. Eurovision was all
about bringing people together, inter stell song contest and guessing
how the sad.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Laugh at the slow clap the slow clap maybe think
of an eighties movie.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
It kind of grewel but slow clap's never a good sign?

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Is it as going to chuckle out of me? Oh,
and we forgot about the hollow of Graham Norton, which, well.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Graham Norton's got a his with Doctor who bless him.
So this is actually his third appearance, but this is
only the first one that actually meant have happened. So
for Wroten Rules the very first episode, he had a
program on just beforehand and they were recording a promo
for the next episode, and somebody made his mic live

(55:20):
and it played over the episode. Yeah, there was a
bit of panic at the BBC, and I'm sure somebody
didn't have their job afterwards. And then the second time
cartoon Graham Norton promo appeared over the end of which
was a proper cliffhanger ending of the time of Angels
in twenty ten. So I think there'sn't like three thousand

(55:43):
complaints to the BBC, so Graham Norton has two. But
he actually got asked to appear, and I think the
way they used him was really good. I think happened
him as the hologram in the museum and given the.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
History of I'm Dead, Ah sad, and it was just
like you.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Just played it as just he wasn't even an extra
version of himself.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Because that's just how he is.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Watching clips of his show, it's just exactly how he is.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
He did. One of my favorite clips from his show
is where he's talking to Judy Dunch and he tells
her she lies like a rug.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
It's so funny she remembers nothing. She's terrible to because
she's like, oh, yeah, and we met here and we
did this. I think, oh he's gone. He said, oh, yeah,
we went to this night club and.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
So are you at Heaven. Yeah, I've never been to
c I've never lied like a rug.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
And then all of a sudden he went, oh, yeah, actually.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
His show is amazing.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, it's so funny, and they're allowed to drink, which
always makes it a bit more interesting. And so Rylan
I did message you last I think it was last
night when I was asking you to know who Rylan is.
Rylan it kind of appeared on our screens with a bang.

(57:06):
He was a content on The X Factor. Oh, I
couldn't even say how long ago, fifteen years ago or.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Something like that Wikipedia. So I was twenty twelve, Yeah,
quite possibly, And he was.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Known when he got through the Judges house. Got through
Judges Houses, he was in a Nicole shirtinger's house and
he was wheeling, he was strowing himself on the He
was so extra and a huge Spice Skills fan. It
was like the whole thing, through all the whole program.
And then after he got kicked out of that, he

(57:43):
got quite far along. I think he then went on
Celebrity Big Brother. But since then he's kind of made
a name for himself presenting and he is calm and
wonderful and a big thing about his teeth, which is
why that got mentioned. How the teeth in does a

(58:07):
bit like yeah, so he's like totally playing on himself.
But it was the next thing. But yeah, he kind
of e appears on morning television and and all sorts,
so he's a big character. And he also does the
semi final i think television coverage for Eurovision and he

(58:27):
does radio broadcast for the finals, so he's he's very
linked to Eurovision, like Graham Norton is so and hence
why they defrost him every year.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
That's hilarious. What year is it? And what does he ask?
What year is it twenty nine forty five or whatever
they say, and he said, he asks something else. He's like,
all right, let's do it so long.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
So yeah, I think those and as well I think Ryland.
I was expecting Ryland be more of a cameo like
grim Norton was from the big part and like such
a sentle sort of part of it.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
I was.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
I was quite surprised. It was good fun. So we
had we've mentioned the Helliens. I think that whole sort
of basically they got what they needed, and the base
burned the planet to the ground.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
It parallels the season two of and Or a story
arc about one of the planets that where there. I
won't spoil everything, but they need the planet for this
one specific thing and they basically destroy the planet to
get it.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
And and I'm guessing the corporation we're behind the the
misinformation about the the Heliens themselves and all this, and.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
That they're not even employable.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Yeah, they can't be trusted, not all the rest of it.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
The producer, whatever of your vision, She's like, nobody employs
Hellen's and I took a chance on you, and but
I did. I think she's on you to win.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
But yeah, yeah, that's the fact that I don't think
I wrote down in her name, but Cora. The fact
that she removed a Cora. Yes, it seemed like somebody
else had removed her homes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
She doesn't really answer that question.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Yeah, just to be able to fit in. And when
I'm guessing was a manager, I found out the truth.
Knew he was straight away. That's it, like, like it
was absolutely disgusted and it was just just to have that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
You've known this person for years and just this one thing.
This one piece of knowledge immediately changes how you think
you feel about that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Yeah, it's just that prejudice. It's just it's just, isn't it.
Just like you just take people and faith it what
you you find out about them. You yeah, we're not
going to get me rambling. So the end of the episode,
obviously we had we had the Turdus was returned to

(01:01:12):
the space.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
I found it floating around the asteroids.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
And we've obviously we've got Belinda and the Doctor, the
Vindicators all set up and ready to go. And that
final moment of the doors explored, and it was like,
what the yeah, because you just think how I just

(01:01:40):
wonder how the next episode is going to start. I
don't know, because that was a very big bang.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
M hm.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
So've skipped up the Missus Flood.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
I was gonna say I was gonna bring Missus Flood
up next because it's kind of a big deal deal,
the biggest deal.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Of that appearance in the audience. I kind of like
I suppose has every other episode. I just thought that
was going to be the appearance.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
They lulled you into a false sense of security, always.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
Been every other episode, and then that's been it, and
I thought that the reveal would have been next week.
I didn't think we would get the reveal in this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
So to get that comes out of the cryo generator.
Whatever they were, who are they saved everybody. They must
have been there a long time doing that. By the way, yes,
the name Gary and Gary and Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Yeah, I've got to say the first when when when
they were trying to getting the pot at the beginning
and was it. Mike was was like, got our pardon.
Gary is like, oh, I don't know what all the
is about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
And I don't even want to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
That's main cave because I love your vision and Cavin
is just not that bothered. I was like, are you
watching it? And it's like, no tools to watch whatever you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Want to watch. It's not just about songs.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
It's everything that's nice. Yeah, so that that made me
trickle them myself because I just thought that's that's us.
But yeah, so the when she kind of was say,
you know, I don't need I don't need to be
checked over. I've got did you did she say timeloads
have their own way?

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
She said time time ladies.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Oh, time ladies, Yeah, have their own way.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
And I was.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
I wasn't generation. I kind of when the when the
energy started, I expected a regeneration. Okay, not a bigennration,
so to have well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
So she is from Gallafrey.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
She is a time lady. She has a timeload. Yeah,
she's the Ronnie. Oh, she regenerated by generated. So we
have the Ronnie and a Ronnie. So Missus Flood is
a Ronnie. Yeah, and our new high Marti Punjabi is

(01:04:26):
the Ronnie. Now that Ronnie is from the eighties. Appeared
the first time I think was around nineteen eighty five.
It was like eighty five in an episode called The
Mark of the Ronnie with the Sixth Doctor. She's a
renegade timeload, so she's not a good character. She's basically

(01:04:47):
in a moral scientist, so her experiments are her everything,
and they are above everything. She's not above experiment non
humans on other species as long as it gets her
to complete her experiment. She did recur over the sort

(01:05:08):
of the last few years of the series. She is
portrayed by an actress called Kate Omara and yeah, not
a bit like similar to the Master. But the Master
has always been about world domination and wants to be
the ruler of all things, whereas as say, the Rawnie

(01:05:29):
is her her experiments, her science is what drives her.
So an interesting character to come back, and the fact
that we've still got Missus Flood and Anita Dobson's grade,
so to get to keep her for at least another
couple of episodes probably well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
And it was funny to see her go from she's
been this sort of loving character and she's been very
wink at the camera and then she becomes very subse yeah,
and she's like, oh, yes, whatever you want, man.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
So we've got the The actress who plays Ronnie Archie Punjabi.
She's got quite an extensive film and TV career. She
won a Primetime Emmy for a party played in The
Good Wife. First person of Indian heritage to win a Emmy.

(01:06:29):
She also voiced now, I do apologize before I say this, Haley,
is it there? I told you I was going to
do me wrong. She voiced that character in bad Batch.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Oh very good.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
So there's a bit of a Star Wars link, but
you were like that, thank you linking.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
So yeah, so she's very cool.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
She I think she's gonna be in very good choice
for the Yeah, we had a little bit of a
quote from rt D as well, So obviously our next
episode is the first part of the penul Limit for

(01:07:18):
Brian episode of the season. It's the first part of
the two part finale, which is called wish Well, and
RTD has said that wish Well, we'll see enemies all
the new unite as the Doctor faces the Unholy Trinity.
So my first thought was, add Conrad in there, and

(01:07:39):
there's but apparently the Rannie both Ronis are cluster as
one part of the Holy Trinity Unholy Trinity. So we've
got Conrad, we've got the Rarnis, and we've got a
yet unknown third member of the Unholy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Trinity where we have maybe an art scene yet.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Not Yeah, so I thing next week. But he also said,
which we'll please them, will not please others. He also
was quote to saying the Pantheon is stirring.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Well, so I was gonna say, are we just dropping
the gods? Thing? That would annoy me if we'd been
doing all this stuff with the gods for all these
episodes and then it just goes away.

Speaker 2 (01:08:22):
So I think with the Pantheon because the obviously the
money from the Mouse was for two seasons. I think
the Pantheon stuff will get finished, shall we say?

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
Well, and they're kind of in debt to the doctor
right now because he saved them from the storyteller. The
storyteller wanted to kill that god.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
But then you obviously you've got looks who's gone off
into the atmosphere. What happened to Maestro? I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
They sent Maestro somewhere? Just they trapped Maestro, right, Yeah,
I think they trapped Maestro, but I can't remember they
trapped them in the music. I can't remember. I'm pretending.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Version of trapped in the music right now.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
You know, it's like you're on a measure of music.
I don't know. I can't remember. Everybody's been sort of
dealt with.

Speaker 2 (01:09:29):
Yeah, so are we going to say other members? Are
we going to get another member of the Pandean? Is
the third part of the Unholy Trinity? Are they going
to Is the Ronnie's experiments going to bring back the Pantheon?
Who knows, but I say I think it will be resolved.
The whole Pandean storyline, I think is obviously been this

(01:09:52):
through line for for these two seasons. I wonder, are
we going to see Susan twist.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
I Well, you kept saying the twist, and every time
you said the twist, I was like, Susan twist. We
need to see her back at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
But she was going to she was getting employed by unit.
So yes, and we haven't seen Rose Noble.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Yes. So with one opportunity, is there any chance we
get David Tennant's forty fourteenth Doctor fifteen?

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
I'd be very surprised.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
I was just thinking about, like, what are what is
he after?

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Well, he has been filming.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
No the Doctor, that doctor like that there just often
doing whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
I guess he's just living now his life and conventional.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
If then they like re generate together I have. I'm
the worst at theories. I just come up with crazy
stuff just for fun.

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Well, do you wonder whether we're going to get the
start of a regeneration scene in the last episode, because
if rumors that are circle and are true. Shoots only
signed up for two series, which isn't unusual to a
two season run. There's obviously been longer, there's been shorter,

(01:11:20):
but given that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
The chances shortest actor.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
Excells only one that's done one for reasons not totally shared,
but I think it would be really hard to commit
to something that you don't know what's happened with it
after after the two years, because obviously that's what the
money was, the contract was. There has been sort of

(01:11:49):
I think I sent sent it over in the chat
that there has been an insider say that the plan
is that no matter what happens to do with the
Disney Plus money, that there is the plans for who
to continue. RTT has another two stories, two series, mapped
out seasons sorry, mapped out has partially started writing.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Episodes for that's a good viewership. I feel like for
Disney Plus to get one point eight million is pretty good.
They should just renew it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
I think it's been hitting sort of like the they
watched up top ten watched sort of things because Disney
Plus don't release viewing figures, so you can never never
be certain stuff like the one point eight was BBC
viewing figures for the actual BBC not iPlayer, so that

(01:12:48):
was the other night.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
That was probably higher.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
So yeah, exactly plus as well with yesterday's episode, we
got higher because we got the drop off from the
FA Cup final and going into Eurovision, so it was
a bit higher than the rest of the series this season,
but people weren't sure because there was a bit of
a uncertainty about whether Doctor Who would a on BBC
one last night because if the football slash Soccer March

(01:13:13):
had gone into extra time.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
You don't have to speak American for us, if you know,
you know, if you don't too.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
Bad as it happens, Crystal Palace one in normal time
so beat Manchester City and that means that it didn't
go to X time. Therefore, Doctor Who could a as normal.
But people might watch it on Disney Plus singing well
it's not gonna it might not be on or we're
not wait until I'm still a traditionalist. I still waiting

(01:13:44):
as on BBC one. However, yesterday I did watch it
on the I Player, so you don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
That's interesting. I wonder how they're, yeah, I wonder how
they're capturing all of those viewership statistics because that's different
pockets of Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
But I think I don't think we'll get an official
announcement until after the series is finished. I hope what
this coming from This insider was an article in the
Mirror newspaper, which generally I think tend to be quite
reliable when it comes to the Doctor Who stories. So

(01:14:23):
I kind of think that this is going to be
the case. What there were what was said in this
article that it's if we do get continuation, we won't
expect to see series until twenty twenty seven because by them,
you've written the stories, you're probably going to have to
obviously going to have to look at contracts, You're going
to have to maybe find a new doctor. It takes

(01:14:46):
a year to make in the big shed, so by
and we've got all the effects and everything, so it'll
be a shame. We've had longer caps, so we'll survive.
But it's just it's a we're not getting a Christmas special.
It would been quite nice to I've got a Christmas.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
Special this year.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
That's surprising actually, but because that wasn't included in the
the thing, and we've still got to walk between the
land and the seat to come.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
So that would be so that gives us a fill in.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
Yeah, and I think that probably will act as that.
I think it probably will aim the kind of this
time next year to break up that lack of who
Yeah for sure, but maybe sometimes arrest is good, keeps
people interested, gives that bit of anticipation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Yeah, I think so, maybe not two whole years, but no,
look we're already almost halfway through twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Yes, nearly Christmas.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Nearly Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Just a little bit thing that's been in the news
this week, just just while we're finishing off the are going.
We had the twentieth anniversary of New Who was it
a couple of months ago? Now the anniversary rules coming out,
so we've had twenty years now, which I just kind
of get my head around that we still call it

(01:16:15):
New Who and it's twenty years.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Old, but in the grand scheme of Who, it isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
Well yeah, true. So they are doing a special episode
of Unleashed, which is the behind the scenes program, which
I think they have been shown on YouTube this year worldwide.
So they're going to do a special celebration episode. So
they're going to bring back various people. I know Tenant

(01:16:42):
and Billy Piper are going to be reunited on it,
so that that I'm guessing will a after this the
season has ended, so they'll do the redacted for the
last episode, which is Reality War, and then maybe the
following week that might show the twenty anniversaries special. So

(01:17:03):
at least we've got something to look forward to.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
A consolation prize exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
And then the bringing out target novelizations from I think
three stories from this season after the season ends as well.
So and if you do enjoy Who and you do
enjoy the episodes, the target novelizations are basically novelizations of
actual televised episodes, so they're not different stories. We've got

(01:17:31):
loads of audio dramas and books which are news stories.
Funny enough, the interstellar song contest has actually appeared in
Who before in an audio drama. Funny it's called bang
Banga Boom, which was Mel was in that, So Mel
Who is returning in the two part finale. But yeah,

(01:17:57):
the target novelizations, I know we did the what did
we do? What did I do?

Speaker 1 (01:18:03):
Hailey? You're looking at me?

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
The episode's gone, oh the Planet of the Dude? Sorry,
So yeah, I just completely went blank. So they are
quite often not done by the writers of the episodes,
but maybe have the opportunity to put in bits that
were cut for time reasons or expense reasons. So yeah,
if you're going to miss Who over the next eighteen months,

(01:18:34):
why not give the target novelizations ago.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Absolutely, there's lots of ancillary Who material to avoid are.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
So much big finish you like the list of them,
You've got plenty to keep you going. Put it that way.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Indeed, well, three good episodes, looking forward to the two
part finale, and hopefully we get everybody together for both
of those episodes because it's been it's been hard to
do that this time, so we want to have the
whole crew together for those who the whole Who crew

(01:19:13):
in the tardis. So yeah, we did not obviously have
a Source Pages episode last week. We'll be doing our
and or review in comparison this week, and we will
get to our DAR double one eventually. Other things just
take precedence. So how dare you have a life well

(01:19:34):
on other content to express them.

Speaker 2 (01:19:36):
From when you get somebody like me going? Is there
any episode come now recorded this week?

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
I know? So thank you Karen as always for your
expertise and until next time, we'll see you on the
other side of the tartis.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
Ali.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
Thank you for listening to Source a reading collective A
proud member of the Stranded Panda Network. If you would
like to contact us, you can email sparkpodcast at gmail
dot com that's Spark with a C, or follow us
on Twitter at source PAGESCST for this and other great shows,
You can visit strandedpanda dot com or join the great
community that is the Strandedpanda Chat Facebook group at facebook

(01:20:22):
dot com, slash groups, slash sp chat, and remember, let
readings spark your imagination

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