Red Dots and Black Hole Stars: Unraveling Cosmic Secrets

In this episode of SpaceTime, we dive into the cosmos to uncover the secrets of the early universe, explore the potential for black hole atmospheres, and examine the intriguing history of habitability on Mars, alongside the launch of a new deep space antenna by the European Space Agency.
Mysterious Red Dots in the Early Universe
Astronomers have identified a population of enigmatic red dots in the early universe, potentially representing exotic stellar atmospheres around ancient black holes. These findings, published in Astronomy and Astrophysics, could bridge the gap in understanding the rapid growth of supermassive black holes. The Webb Space Telescope's observations suggest these objects might be a new class of celestial body, challenging existing models of galaxy formation and offering insights into the origins of galaxies.
Multiple Episodes of Habitability on Mars
NASA's Perseverance rover has provided compelling evidence that Mars's Jezero Crater experienced multiple episodes of liquid water flooding, each capable of supporting life. By analysing geochemical data, scientists have identified various minerals that reveal a dynamic history of volcanic activity and water interactions, suggesting a complex aqueous past that could have fostered life on the Red Planet.
European Space Agency's New Deep Space Dish
The European Space Agency is set to inaugurate its latest Australian deep space antenna at the Norcia tracking station in Western Australia. This 35-metre parabolic dish will enhance ESA's deep space communications capabilities, supporting missions and ensuring robust data transmission from spacecraft exploring our solar system. The new facility complements ESA's existing network of antennas worldwide, reinforcing their commitment to deep space exploration.
www.spacetimewithstuartgary.com
✍️ Episode References
Astronomy and Astrophysics
https://www.aanda.org/
Journal of Geophysical Research Planets
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/21699356
European Space Agency
https://www.esa.int/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/spacetime-space-astronomy--2458531/support.
Mysterious Red Dots in the Early Universe
Multiple Episodes of Habitability on Mars
European Space Agency's New Deep Space Dish

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Spacetime Series twenty eight, episode one hundred and sixteen,
for broadcast on the twenty sixth of September twenty twenty five.
Coming up on Spacetime, mysterious red dots in the early
universe could there be black hole atmospheres? The discovery of
mudible episodes of habitability on the red planet Mars, and
the European Space Agency's newest Australian deep space dish about

(00:23):
to begin operations. All that and more coming up on
space Time.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome to space Time with Stuart Gary.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Astronomers believe that a population of mysterious red dots spotted
in the very early universe could be exotic stellar atmospheres
around ancient black holes. The findings were a port order
of the journal Astronomy. In astrophysics might represent a missing
link the rapid growth of super massive black holes. Stellar
mass black holes are created through the supernova deaths of

(01:10):
massive stars, and those stellar massholes can get bigger and
bigger through mergers. But the discovery of super massive black
holes in the early universe has remained a problem. See
there's no way enough stellar mass black holes could have
merged back then in the amount of time available since
the universe began, and that's where these tiny red objects
come in. They were spotted by NASA's web Space telescope

(01:33):
and there offering scientists new insights to the origins of
galaxies in the universe, and they may represent an entirely
new class of celestial object, a black hole swallowing massive
amounts of matter spitting out light. Using the first data
set released byweb back in twenty twenty two, astronomers who
first discovered those mysterious little red dots suggested the objects

(01:54):
might be galaxies. They were as mature as our current
Milky Way is, but at a time when the universe
itself was only five hundred to seven hundred million years old.
That suggests that these so called universe breakers are far
older than anyone expected in the infant universe, and that
calls in the question what scientists had previously understood about
galaxy formation. This new hypothesis suggested that dots may not

(02:17):
be galaxies, but an entirely new class of object known
as a black hole star. The authors say their analysis
indicates these tiny pinpoints of light may be giant spheres
of hard gas that are so dense they look like
the atmospheres of a typical nuclear fusion powered star. However,
instead of fusion, they're being powered by super massive black

(02:38):
holes at their centers, which are rapidly pulling in matter
and converting into energy in the process, giving off light.
One of the studies authors, Joel Leega from Penn State University, says,
as his team studied the red dots, they eventually found
one that had so much atmosphere around it it couldn't
simply be explained as a typical star. They originally thought
it could be a tiny galaxy full of many spectrotype

(02:59):
M red dwarf stars, but instead it's actually effectively just
one giant, very cold star. Most stars are low mass
spectral type M red dwarf stars. In fact, that population
makes up about three quarters of all stars in our galaxy.
They're typically hard to see because they're washed out by
rare and more luminous massive stars. Still, astronomers can identify

(03:21):
these stars by their glow, which is primarily in the
red optical and their infrared end of the electromagnetic spectrum.
While the gas around supermassive black holes is typically very
hot millions of degrees celsius, the light from these red
dot black holes was instead dominated by very cold gas,
and that's similar to the atmospheres of low mass red
dwarf stars based on the wavelength of the light they're

(03:43):
giving off. The most powerful telescope in space, Web was
designed to see the genesis of the cosmos using infrared
sensing instruments, which are capable of detecting light that was
emitted by the most ancient stars and galaxies. Essentially, webs
allowing scientists to see back in time roughly thirteen point
five billion years, pretty well near the beginning of the

(04:04):
universe as we know it, and from the moment the
telescope turned on, astronomers around the world began seeing these
little red dance objects that appeared to be far more
massive than what galaxy models predicted. At first, they thought
these objects must have been mature galaxies, which tend to
get redder as the stars inside the age, but the

(04:25):
objects were too bright to be explained. Those stars would
need to be packed in side galaxies at impossible densities.
If this interpretation holds, it implies that stars form through
extraordinary processes that have never been observed before. To better
understand the mystery, the authors needed spectra, a type of
data that could provide information about how much slight the

(04:46):
objects emitted at different wavelengths. So between January and December
twenty twenty four, astronomers used nearly sixty hours of WEB
observation time to obtain spectra from a total of four thousand,
five hundred distant galaxy is and that makes this one
of the largest spectroscopic databases yet obtained from WEB. In
July twenty twenty four, the authors spotted an object with

(05:08):
a specter that indicated a huge amount of mass, making
it the most extreme case of such an early large object.
Astronomer's nickname the object the Cliff, flagging it as the
most promising test case yet to investigate exactly what these
little red dots were. The extreme properties of the cliff
forced astronomers to go back to the drawing boards and

(05:28):
come up with entirely new models. This object was so
distant that it took light almost eleven point nine billion
years to reach the Earth. The spectral analysis of that
light indicates it was actually a super massive black hole,
pulling in surrounding material at such a rate that it
cocooned itself in a fiery ball of hydrogen gas, so
the light wasn't coming from a thick cluster of stars,

(05:51):
but from just one single giant object. Super Massive black
holes are found at the cet as of most, if
not all galaxies. In some cases, those black holes are
millions to beans, at times more massive than our Sun,
pulling in nearby matter with such strength that it converts
to energy it shines. No one's ever really known why

(06:12):
or where these gigantic black holes are the centers of
galaxies come from, and these black hole stars maybe will
be the first face of formation for these super massive
black holes. Webs already found evidence of high mass black
holes in the early universe, and these new black hole
star objects, which are essentially turbo charged mass builders, could

(06:32):
help explain the early evolution of the universe and may
therefore be a welcome addition to current models this space time.
Still to come discovery of multiple episodes of habitability on
the red planet Mars, and the European Space agencies newest
Australian deep space antenna about to begin operations. All that

(06:53):
and more still to come on space time NASAs Mars
perseverance rovers discovered strong evidence the red planet's Jezro crater

(07:16):
experienced modible episodes of liquid water flooding, each with conditions
that could have supported life as we know it. By
analyzing high resolution geochemical data from the six wild casseised
mobile laboratory, scientists have identified two dozen types of minerals
that help reveal a dynamic histuy of volcanic rocks which
were altered during interactions with liquid water on the red planet.

(07:39):
The new findings, reported in the Journal of Geophysical Research Planets,
provides important clues about the ongoing search for ancient life
on Mars. The studies lead author Elinor Moreland from Rice
University says the minerals in Jezro support modible, temporarily distinct
episodes of fluid alteration. She says it indicates there were

(07:59):
several times in history when these volcanic rocks interacted with
liquid water, and therefore more than one time when this
location hosted environments which would have potentially been suitable for life.
Minerals form in the very specific environmental conditions of temperature,
pH and chemical makeup of fluids, and that makes them
reliable storytellers of a planet's geologic history. In Jezro, the

(08:23):
twenty four mineral species they're found reveal the volcanic nature
of the Martian surface and its interactions with water over time.
The water chemically weathers the rocks and creates salts or
clay minerals, and the specific minerals that form depend on
the environmental conditions. The identified minerals in Jezro reveal three

(08:43):
types of fluid interactions, each with different applications for habitability.
The first squid of minerals, including greenolite, is ingerlite, and
ferro aluminous cellar dunite, indicate localized high temperature acidic fluids
that are only found on rocks on the crater floor.
When these are interpreted as being some of the oldest
rocks included in the study, the water involved in these

(09:05):
episodes is considered the least habitable for life since research
on Earth that's shown that high temperatures and low pH
can damage biological structures. Now all these would be most
challenging for life on Earth. Life can still persist even
under these hot ascidic conditions. We're talking about the geothermal
geyser pills of water at Yellowstone, so it doesn't rule
out habitability. The second squad of minerals reflects moderate neutral

(09:30):
fluids that support more favorable conditions for life, and which
were present over a larger area. Minerals like minnesotaatee and
Klinopdylo light formed at lower temperatures and neutral pH with
minnesotype detected on both the crater floor and in the
upper fan region of Gezo, while clinopdilo light was also
detected on the crater floor. Finally, the third category represents

(09:52):
low temperature alkaline fluids and is considered quite habitable from
an Earth type perspective. Sepio light, a common auto mineral
on Earth, formed under moderate temperatures and alkaline conditions and
was widely found distributed right across Jezo. The presence of
sepiolite in all these areas reveals a widespread episode of
liquid water creating habitable conditions in Jezro crater and in

(10:15):
filling sediments. Moreland says these minerals are telling scientists that
Jezro experienced a shift from harsher hot acidic fluids to
more neutral and alkaline ones over time, conditions increasingly supportive
of life. Because Mars samples can't be prepared or scanned
as precisely as Earth samples, the authors developed an uncertainly
propagation model to strengthen their results. Using a statistical approach,

(10:40):
Moreland colleagues repeatedly tested mirror identifications, considering the potential errors,
similar to how meteorologists forecast hurricane tracks by running many models,
and the results confirm that Jezro, once home of an
ancient lake, experienced a complex and dynamic aqueous history. The
new mineral discoveries not only brings scientists closer to answering

(11:02):
whether Mars ever could have supported life, but it also
sharpens perseverance of strategy for WIT samples to collect for
a possible future return to Worth mission this space time
still to come. The European Space Agency about the commission
its newest Australian deep space dish, and later in the
science report, researchers finally confirm that people really do see

(11:24):
colors the same way. All that and more still to
come on space time. The European Space Agency is about

(11:46):
to inaugurate its fourth Australian deep space antenna at its
new Nausea tracking station in Western Australia. The new thirty
five meter parabolic dish will reinforce eas's deep space communications capabilities,
supporting upcoming deep space missions and meeting a growing demand
for the deep space network. The new Nouseier complex offers

(12:06):
a strategic geographical position, complimenting aces deep space antennas in Sweden, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, French,
Guiana and Argentina. They're all linked to ASA's European Space
Operations Center in Damstadt, Germany. This report from ACTV LISA.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
The European Space Agency operates several missions in deep space
and ensures that they meet their science objectives. Teams of
specialized engineers design and deploy the technology needed to communicate
with spacecraft that are exploring our Solar system.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
When designing space communications system we are confronted with strong
constraints on board in terms of mass and power. Therefore,
we try to move the complexity into the ground station
where we can build much larger ground stations with much
more performance.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
ISSA has deep space stations around the world organized in
a network called s Track.

Speaker 4 (13:01):
We obviously need to receive data from the spacecraft. This
is in particular scientific data coming from the instruments. It
is navigation measurements and it is status information from the
space cruft. On top of this, we need to command
the spacecraft in order to navigate it and to operate it.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
When receiving data from deep space, we want to collect
as much signal energy as possible, he says. Antennas are
thirty five meters wide, with the same surface as an
Olympic swimming pool. The dish alone weighs one hundred and
thirty tons and we can point it with the accuracy
of six milli degrees to any position in the sky.

(13:40):
The mechanical design makes it possible to compensate for the
rotation motion of the Earth or The received energy is
captured by the large dish. It's focused on the so
called sub reflector and the signal is then guided to
the base of the antenna, where special dichroic mirrors separate
the incoming frequency.

Speaker 5 (13:58):
Bands amplifies undertate the critical task of amplifying this week
signal coming from the space using the high texts and
conductor technology developed by European industry to woost this signal
around one million times or sixty dep The use of
Indian phosphi technology and pulling down to menus two hundred
and sixty degrees celsius allows to genervate only five degree

(14:19):
scalving of thermal noise that is only twice the cosmic
background noise, the lowest nose you can find in the universe.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
The demodulated and decoded signal eventually goes through the Spacelink
protocol processing, which outputs the data in a format we
can easily handle. This is the telemetry data that includes
the low rate data from the spacecraft platform and the
high rate data from the scientific instruments. Communication also needs
to be in the opposite direction. We need to transmit

(14:48):
the so called telecommands to the spacecraft in order to
activate thrusters or control our scientific payloads.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
Typically, we need to transmit around twenty kilo wards of
radio frequency power. This is using clystone, is a high
density energy debase that transforms around one hundred kilowatts of
electrical power into twenty kilowatts of radio frequency power, amplifying
the signal some one hundred one thousand times, or what
it is fifty divies.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
The clystron amplifies signals by converting the kinetic energy in
a DC electron beam into radiofrequency power. The beam is
passed through an input cavity resonator and thanks to a
phenomenon called bunching of electrons in turn produces a high
power radio frequency field in the output cavity. Then the signal,

(15:34):
following the same path as the download signals, but in
the opposite direction, goes through the beam waveguide made of
solid and dichroic mirrors. It is then reflected by the
sub reflector onto the main dish and radiated into space.
In order to navigate our spacecraft through the Solar System,
we need to know their position. This is no easy

(15:54):
task at planetary distances. Therefore easas deep space antennas perform
radio geometric measurements that allow us to derive spacecraft position
and velocity.

Speaker 6 (16:04):
Basically what we go on that is three type of
measurement we range to the satellite. Today, we are able
to resolve the distance of the satellite within one meter.
We measure the radial velocity of the satellite respect to
our antenna to an accuracy which is below zero point
one millimeters per seven. We can also measure very precisely
the angle under which the satellite is seen. By combination

(16:27):
of the three techniques, we are able to localize the
satellite in a box of hundreds of meter to a
distance between the Earth and Mars. This is specially important
during certain critical phases where you want to inject spacecraft
into a planetary orbit.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
To achieve this level of precision, special range, Toppler and
interferometric techniques are used, which rely on the stability of
our ground clocks, typically one second deviation in one hundred years.

Speaker 6 (16:56):
We keep the antennas with a very stable clock which
are based on an atomic transition like hydrogen based masers,
which are able to behave in an extremely stable manner
along the propagation time of the lights across the masuraments.
These are times which arrange above or in the order
of the hour, and during this time the antennas must

(17:19):
be a very stable.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Man Another important aspect is time synchronization. We constantly need
to synchronize the clocks on board our spacecraft with the
universal time coordinated we have on Earth.

Speaker 6 (17:32):
The data received from the satellites must be assigned at
the ground station at the antennas with a precise time tag.
This time tag is required by the scientists to put
in relation on the data which is received by the
satellite with their scientific models.

Speaker 7 (17:48):
To our deep space network is built a call into
internationally a great standard for covering radio frequency modulation telemagy coding.
This enables us to give cross support to external agencies
such as JPL, the Chinese, Russians and Japanese. We have
a ground segment reference facility which we use to replicate
the same configuration that we have in our deep space network.

(18:11):
In addition, we have a Faraday cage which we use
to mount the flying transponder and on board data handling
system which we use to make representative compatibility testing for
the flying missions.

Speaker 4 (18:24):
Is as deep space stations work at different frequencies up
to thirty four giga heads. The new challenge in space
communication is optical communication, in particular in the infrared domain
at one to one point five micrometers corresponding to two
hundred terra heads.

Speaker 8 (18:41):
Optical space communication direct to ground through the Earth's atmosphere
is much more challenging because a the beam is much
narrower and b the atmospheric effects are much more prevalent.
By the way, the narrow beam and the higher frequency
is what gives us the highat rates. Based on ISSUS
heritage from the early days with Artemis and spot For

(19:01):
and the current generation of space terminals being deployed on
eders and sentinels, we will be able to build deep
space optical communications systems.

Speaker 4 (19:12):
Is there already operates an optical ground station laboratory at
ten Reef which will be used for the first time
to demonstrate optical deep space communication from a spacecraft orbiting
the Moon. Optical technology will allow unprecedented data rates from
deep space, thereby maximizing the scientific return and enabling new
types of missions like planetary remote sensing as we are

(19:36):
used today from Earth.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
And in that report from ACTV, we heard from ace's
head of Ground Station Systems Division, Class Jurgen Shultz, is
his ground Station Subsystems Engineer. Salva or Martini is his
head of Systems and Project support Manager. Marco Lenucara is
a systems project support manager. Kevinkewan and is his head
of Ground State Subsystems ORSIA. This is Space time and

(20:21):
time that to take another brief look at some of
the other stories making use in science this week, would
the science report. A new study claims specific types of
intestinal bacteria could be linked to insomnia. The findings, reported
in the Journal of Journal Psychiatry, suggests the microbiome could
even play a role in causing the condition, Using a
technique called mendelium randomization, which uses genetics to allow scientists

(20:44):
to determine whether one thing causes another, rather than them
just being linked. The authors found fourteen types of intestinal
bacteria that may contribute to the risks of insomnia. They
also found eight groups of bacteria that could help protect
against insomnia, and that this link also works in reverse,
and that insomnia could also cause the microbes to be altered.

(21:06):
Scientists have finally confirmed that people really do see colours
all the same way. The findings reported in the Journal
of Neuroscience, so that colours are represented and processed in
the same way in the same parts of the human
brain in different people. The authors were able to predict
which colors a group of people were looking at by
using a machine learning tool that was trained on the

(21:27):
brain scans of a separate group who had been shown
various colors. They found that different colours are processed by
subtly different areas within the same brain region, and that
different cells respond more strongly to specific colours than others.
Scientists have identified a new species of stingray at a
local Fiji in fish market. A report of the Journal

(21:49):
of Fish Biology claims researchers from the University of the
South Pacific identify the new species, which they've named Fiji
mask ray. The fish is only found in local Fiji
in waters. Although the ray is common around the island
nation and most widely traded in local markets, it's never
actually undergone a detailed taxonomic description until now and time

(22:12):
once again for our selliest story of the week. An
infamous allegedly haunted Raggedy and Dole, popularized in the Conjuring movies,
apparently went missing after it was claimed to have started
a fight during a psychic and spirit festival in New Orleans.
Timendum from Australian's Skeptics says the story got almost hysterical
coverage around the world despite the fact that it didn't

(22:34):
have an ounce of truth about it.

Speaker 9 (22:35):
It's a story about a dull named Annibal, which is
supposedly a doll that was sort of infamous because there
was possessed, a haunted that had paranormal powers. It could
attack people, it could move, you can send messages that
attack people, doing all sorts of nakety things because it
was possessed. It was in the collection of a couple
of ghost hunters, Ed and Lorraine Warren, who are quite famous.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
We've mentioned them before.

Speaker 9 (22:56):
We have mentioned them before, they were quite famous. They
both passed away. Now, Warrant was a man who there
was no pointing ever saw it that didn't exist. I
think he was ever a debunker. I mean, he will
the whole range from things Enfield in the in the UK.
He was a big conspiracy theorist. And his wife was
a nicer lady, but she went along with them. Have

(23:16):
some sea they were, I don't know. I think definitely
the Rain. I think the wife was very since here
I don't know that. So anyway, this doll was in
their possession, but it's been moved around a bit on display.
People go and see it, a bit of a traveling circus.
So I was down in Louisiana for an exhibition and
lo and behold, naturally.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
Did the dolls start the fire?

Speaker 9 (23:34):
That's the theory, of course, instantly said this Annabel doll
started the fire. No reason to say suggests that's just
how the Annabelle doll was in Louisiana and the fire
was in Louisiana. Now the question was was the Annabel
doll in Louisiana, Because then the rumors started it had disappeared.
So Annabel Doll, haunted, possessed, being as it is, was
running looser around the countryside because of the disappeared trouble

(23:54):
was fire not associated with anything else, obviously, was just
a normal fire, and the Anniviel doll did not disappeared.
Even though this had headlines around the world believe it
or not, you know, not see anyone from Indian newspapers
and all sorts of places that the Annibal doll had
disappeared and it was causing all this chaos, and that
quickly pointed out animal does not disappear, that we have
it in our possession, that's going on to the next
city's on the tour. This fire is not associated with it.

(24:17):
There's an absolute, I mean part of the fact that
the doll is not haunted. Probably I think it's unlikely.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Oh, I see, you're going back to first principles.

Speaker 9 (24:24):
Are Yeah, prove proof of this thing is harnted to
get association with a fire or anything like that. Just
prove that the doll is haunted, possessed. And I don't
think it's it's the raggedy and doll, you know, with
the big eyes and red hair and things, and someone's
painted on some tears and makes them look a bit
more evil.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Of it, doesn't the team mean you've killed someone in
prison or something.

Speaker 9 (24:42):
Which obviously obviously this this if dollars attacked people, and
don't know if they ever actually killed anyone, but it probably
has some unders why not. So there we have it.
It's a strange thing. This disappearance didn't have and the
fire didn't happen. The doll's not haunted, but the Mexican
story anyway, and it just cut coverage around the world,
which is an amazing thing. I mean, it's pretty unimprissied dole.
I've seen nasti are looking hoarded dolls. Many people are

(25:03):
painted on nasty are looking faces.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
It'll go on. That's the way I get. I mean,
it's the same thing. I was just nerding today that
killer bees are back in the news in the United States,
and it turns out that every year at this time
you'll find a killer bee story. They come out at
this time of the year. Every year. You can go
back ten years, twenty years, you'll see them in the
news that they've been killer bee. You've seen it's always

(25:25):
at this time of the year. So there are these
things which are constantly recycled, and Chuckie Dolls are one
of them.

Speaker 9 (25:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there are certain sort of paranormalities
that keep appearing in the UFOs A pretty persistent. Psychic
powers are persistent. Other things come up and they go
and they disappear, thank you, But there'll always be something
to replace. Seven of professions that was pretty paranormal. It's
the raggedy and dollars haunted. Why are a lot more
dolls Dan, because there's soles that sort of thing that
I don't know. It's one of those things you just
got to put your head in your hands and you think, really.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
That's timendum from Ustra in Skeptics, and that's the show
for now. Spacetime is available every Monday, Wednesday and Friday

(26:17):
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(26:41):
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(27:03):
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Speaker 2 (27:05):
You've been listening to space Time with Stuart Garry. This
has been another quality podcast production from bytes dot com.