February 27, 2024 • 37 mins
Welcome to Spacing Out with Our Flag Means Death! BB and Jason are covering every episode of the HBO Max series, and this week we’re discussing the pilot episode. Thanks for joining us!
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Find these episodes and more on our main podcast feed, “Spacing Out with BB and Jason”
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Feel free to reach out to us with your thoughts; We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
Email: spacingoutpod@gmail.com
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB andJason, this week covering Our Flag Means
Death Season one, Episode one pilot. Ye, welcome to spacy Now.
I'm BB and I'm Jason, andtoday we will be discussing Our Flag Means
(00:20):
Death. Before we start, youshould know this podcast is being released on
two different feeds, So if youfound it through the Spacing Out with our
Flag Means Death feed, then youare welcome to check out our main feed,
Spacing Out BB and Jason, whereyou will find this show plus others.
We covered all of Battlestar Galactica,some Star Trek, and then we'll
continue into other series after we finishthis one. And since since this is
(00:41):
a new thing, we're starting herewith this show, I figured we should
do some introductions again. Oh so, my name is Jason. My pronouns
are he slash him, and let'ssee. I have a background in film
because I went to film school andI've been kind of in and out of
film production in my career. Andthen I discovered Our Flag Means Death through
(01:03):
my co host Bby here. Yes, how did you find it? It
was on the internet. A lotpeople were talking about this really cool,
like subversive pirate show, and Iwas like interested in it because I like
pirate shows. Like the last goodpirate show I saw might have been maybe
(01:26):
like the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. And I heard that there was a
twist in this one that was interesting, and I was like, let's check
it out. And I started watchingit and I really enjoyed it. I
thought it had a lot of heartand a lot of like depths of character
development, and the cost doing andthe production value was really great. So
(01:53):
I'm like a true like a fanatticand now like I love it. I
follow all their like meme pages andactors. They were affected by the actor
strike so they couldn't post anything,and then when the actor strike was over,
there was like a floodgate of memesfrom the second season that we're coming
(02:13):
in and like images of them onset that was so exciting to see.
But yeah, I just found itonline. It was something that was in
on my radar, and I thinkit's part of no spoilers, I guess,
but a little bit of a spoiler. It's like a queer centric show,
and I think the queer community reallycame out for it figuratively and physically.
(02:38):
Yeah. Oh, and I'm Iguess I'm not a film person per
se, but I am I loveand enjoy film and media in general.
Like We've been doing this podcast fora while and I've always I've enjoyed doing
it, like talking about the differentelements of like what makes a show good
(02:59):
and the writing and all that.So I like this show and I'm excited
to get into it. Oh andmy pronouns are she they Yeah, And
I was at a little resistant toget into this, so I guess it
should be clear that we've both seenthe show already all the way through,
so this is a rewatch for us. I was a little resistant just because
I had just watched another pirate showcalled Black Sales, which I really enjoyed,
(03:23):
and it just seemed like, onpaper, it sounded very similar to
this, but it's really not.But I'll probably bring that show up a
few times while we're podcasting, sobe warned. You should also know we're
gonna have a spoiler section at theend of the podcast where we are free
to discuss any future events in thetimeline of the series. So if you
are on your first watch of theseries, you'll just need to skip that
(03:44):
clearly marked section at the end ofthe podcast, but otherwise we won't be
spoiling anything past this episode, whichis our Flag means Death. Season one,
episode one, title pilot and thisaired on March third, twenty twenty
two. Written by David Jenkins whois the creator and showrunner, and directed
by Taikawatiti. In this episode,Steve Bonnett, a wealthy Barbadian landowner,
(04:08):
abandons his wife and children for lifeas a pirate captain to prevent his crew
from mutanting due to his lack ofexperiences, He chooses the nearest large ship
for them, the Pillage, whichturns out to be a Royal Navy warship
captained by Steed's childhood bully, NigelBadminton. While the crew pretends to be
aristocrats, Steve unintentionally causes Nigel tostab himself through the eye with the sword,
(04:28):
leaving his crew impressed. Vive checkDid we like the episode overall?
How does it stand the test oftime? Do we like the episode overall?
Yes? Yes? Bullheardly Yes,Mike. What a great episode to
start like this series, like introducingthis cast of characters and n'erty Wells being
(04:53):
bled by this very soft man.Yeah, it definitely sets the tone right
away, like what kind of likea comedy. This is the dynamics of
the crew and the captain and justlike yeah, it's it's it's the humor
in that, like they're from veryopposing size, but they all have like
(05:14):
one mission. Yeah, and everyevery character is kind of funny in their
own way, and it's really likethere's no one in there that's just like
a I don't know, a straightman type of person, like ridiculous people
on the same boat. Yeah,trivia time, What facts could we uncover
for the pilot episode? All Right, a little bit of trivia about the
(05:38):
episode and the show as a whole. So creator and showrunner David Jenkins was
inspired to write the show after learningabout Steve Bonnett from his wife and subsequently
reading his Wikipedia article. Yeah,this is a real story, Like this
is a real man that actually likewent out to see and left behind his
like life, his wealthy life lifeto become the quote unquote, well,
(06:02):
I don't want to say, we'llleave it there. He's just he's like
a real person. It's based inreal life, and I think that's really
cool that they are like imagining whatit was like for him to be out
at sea as this like fancy boy. Yeah, and just pulling from his
Wikipedia article real quick, Like alot of what they show in this first
(06:26):
episode is from his real story.So like, he had this ship,
the Revenge, built with the gunson it, and this is very unusual,
as most pirates seize their ships bymutiny, by boarding them or converting
a private vessel. And he enlisteda crew and relied on a quartermaster an
officer for their knowledge of sailing.As results not very respected by his crew.
(06:47):
He paid the crew wages and notshares a plunder, so like,
yeah, they brought all that intothe show and it's an interesting creed if
you want to browse his the article, and there's some stuff in there that
I don't want to mention yet becauseit definitely plays into the storyline of the
actual show too. Yeah, butit's also like very little known history.
(07:08):
Like you think of famous pirates,you don't think of Steve Bomitt Bonnett.
You don't think of Steve Bonnett asa famous pirate or a name that sticks
out. So it's an interesting characterto focus on. So Taika, wait,
he became involved as executive producer anda director first, and then he
will later go on to join thecast. Reece Starby He's he plays Steve
(07:31):
Bonnett. He's known for his comedicsupporting roles, but he's always has an
opportunity to step into a leading role. And the creator said that he made
an otherwise unlikable Steed Bonnet likable.Yeah, I can see that, Like
you're always kind of rooting for himbecause he's so inept. Yeah. Theo
Darby, who is ree Starby's son, played the young version of Steve Bonnett.
(07:54):
He was really good, Yeah,picking those flowers and getting blood all
over his face. Then, sceneson The Revenge are filmed on a sound
stage using stagecraft, which is atechnology that uses LED screens for the backgrounds,
originally developed from the Mandalorian. Soif you ever see like behind the
scenes footage of one of those soundstage, it's actually really cool because it's
like the backgrounds are all pre renderedand they react to how the camera moves
(08:18):
to create the perspective. So that'sall they're shooting all these scenes and getting
that good production value on the shipDeep Space Dive. Let's break down some
of our thoughts on the episode.You can share your thoughts with us through
email or social media. We mayuse your comments on an upcoming episode.
(08:39):
All right, what do we do? What do we jump into? Well,
let's talk about how like nurturing andkind and thoughtful Steed Bonnet is portrayed
in this as a leader, andhow like that would be an ideal leader
in most situations, Like you wouldlike the environment that he is giving these
(09:01):
men where they are all held inhigh regard and treated as equals and have
a voice in their Like piracy isso like revolutionary in a way, because
we don't do that anywhere, Likewe don't have that kind of structure in
like corporate America or even in likeother sectors of business and engagement, Like
(09:28):
that's what we strive for, right, that's what we want to see in
leadership, But capitalism has made itso that it's more like toxic. Like
there's a lot of toxic workplaces,and you would expect a pirate ship to
be a toxic workplace, and that'snot the environment at all. Although you
(09:50):
know, people are always going tofind something to complain about, and these
pirates obviously do. The crew islike complaining about like not having plundered.
Well, it's such an unusual environmentfor them that it's uncomfortable. Yeah,
Like they don't want to accept thisweird kind of democracy on this pirate ship.
(10:11):
Like there's a way these ships runand it's not by like majority rule
or whatever. Right, we don'twe don't all make a flag and then
vote on which flag is the bestand then in the end we fly all
the flags. Flags. Those weregreat, They were great. There was
such a like invigorating part, Likefor me, like the whole interaction with
(10:35):
the flags was like the heart ofand I think where the show gets its
name in a lot of ways.But it's like, okay, so you
have a complaint. We don't evenhave a flag. Let's fix that.
Here are some materials where we cancreate together a symbol that represents us as
a group. And they're all beingcreative and at first they're like pooh pooing.
(10:58):
They're like, I ain't gonna sew. That's that's a woman's thing.
And he's like, hey, nowdo you any of you sew? Like
do you think that's like that's notvery nice? And uh, one of
the guys, I forget his namenow, he's like, I think his
name is Cookie. He's like,I sewed my shoulder up once and he
(11:20):
showed this like huge scar on hisshoulder with the stitching, and he's like,
yeah, see, sewing can betough. And it was just like
the reframing of something that went fromnegative to positive, so like indicative of
the character of Steve Bonnet and thelike unwavering support and like purity of that
(11:43):
character. And I just love that. Like it was so good and everybody
was just sitting there sewing and thenuh, because it's like going through comedy,
like it's just casually challenging, likethis idea of masculinity. Yeah,
yeah, it's like, let's sew, let's do something together. That's like
(12:03):
traditionally, when you think of agroup of people who are sewing, you
think of old women typically like asewing circle or a quote circle. A
bitch and stitch is what they callthem. It's true. Well, I've
been a part of a couple,so I've been I've been familiarized with the
(12:26):
bitch and stitch and it's a greatlike communal space to create and and do
like expel grievances and and and alsolike just and that is kind of where
they come up with their plan tomutiny, So it harbors creativity and in
more ways than not, and fuckingbuttons. He's like hearing everybody and he's
(12:52):
like straight to the captain. He'sgonna snitch. I thought that was interesting.
Yeah, his loyalty to the captainin this episode, Like he's the
one who announces him at the veryfirst sight of him. He's like,
everybody, pay attention or to yourcaptain. That was him announcing. And
you can see him always at thewheel, so you can tell that he
(13:13):
has a high ranking position within thecrew. That's kind of cool to see
him like be loyal to Steve Bonnettand be like, hey, captain,
you got mutiny afoot. Yeah,it's interesting just because I mean we're not
going to spoil anything with these characters, but like the first time watching,
like it's a lot of characters totake in. Yeah, and so like
(13:35):
by the end of the season orthe series, like you have a much
or a grass with these characters.So it's always interesting to come back to
the start and like see everyone atthe beginning of their role and really like
I'm more familiar with who they are, and I can kind of just follow
their stories a little better. Yeah, Yeah, I think it's really interesting
to see them unfold. I reallylike Gosh, I always forget I'm so
(13:58):
bad at names. I hate myselffor that. But the documentarian, the
one who is annotating everything that SteveBonnet is saying, Lucius Lucius. So
Lucius is also in a high rankingposition, which is close to the pet
captain, and it doesn't seem likehe likes it too much already off the
(14:22):
bat, like, because he waslike, I'm down for the mutiny,
y'all. But one of the thingsthat Steve Bonnett said was that I have
a library, we have a wreckroom, we have this like wonderful ship
with all these amenities. And he'slike, but nobody's taken me up on
the library except you, Lucius.And he's like, well, I'm the
only one who can read. Andhe's like, that's not true, Like
(14:45):
he doesn't want to believe. Yeah, he's so out of touch with what
these reality's giving him, like awreck room and a library. Yeah,
reading them stories at night, whichactually like yeah, they really like that,
and they don't the only thing thatsaves him from mutiny that day was
that Lucius can't do the Pinocchio voice. So I feel like there's a lot
(15:11):
of like lightheartedness in this show thatis really like endearing. I don't know,
it's really good. And then likethat rude one that wanted to do
the mutiny who said he used tosail with Blackbeard, who's like stir in
the pot that is black Peat,black Pete. Okay, Well, he
(15:35):
automatically assigns himself as leader in thevacuum structure that would like create like a
void in a leadership role. Andthey're like, I don't know what about
Jim, And Jim is a muteallegedly, and we note and then at
the end of the scene or atthe end of the episode, we see
(15:56):
that Jim has a false identity yes, and can't talk yeah, And I'm
not sure how to say his nameal I think they call him Alli.
That's Jim's friend that is aware ofJim's identity. He's also a hang ranking
member from the crew based on thefact that he ran to the captain's aid
(16:17):
when he accidentally murdered uh that guy. It was him and Lucius that ran
in and were like, what's whatdo you need what's going on? So
you can tell, like who's closeto the captain in this episode a little
bit more, and like I likethe advice he gave him where he's like
no, like do you want tolive? Like no? Do you?
(16:38):
Like? Are you like he snappedhim into reality because like in this episode
we get a glimpse of a babyBonnet that's his like the name they teased
him with. But he was ababy, He was a little boy,
and you could tell that he hadsensitive like tendencies. He had a very
gentle way about him picking flowers andlike flinching at the sight of like foul
(17:07):
being like slaughtered and prepared. Andhis father was so rude to him,
What a terrible father, Like that'sso sad. And then like even in
his home life as an adult man, in his home life, his wife
seems to hate him, Like hiskids seem cool or whatever, very distant.
Like the way that they set thetable where he was at one end
(17:30):
and everybody else was on the otherend near mom. Yeah, that was
weird because like, well, no, that's like how you set the scene
though, That's how you can tella story without saying anything. That he
has it works, Yeah, butit is weird and jarring in a family
to have dad sit all the wayover there. But if that's their normal,
(17:52):
that would I mean, I couldsee what would drive him to like
fantasize and dream about being out inthe open sea in a place where he
creates his own family. Yeah.And then near the end of the episode,
when he's kind of reminiscing fondly overhis family, you see he has
pulled his chair around to the sideand is up next to them. So
that's a very good like visual language, like a shortcut just to tell us
(18:17):
that there's you know. Yeah.But so the episode you can see that
like it's going to deal a lotwith trauma, and you get you highlight
Steed's childhood trauma throughout the episode withhis father and his family and his bully.
And then also like how he's approachingthe crew to like talk things out,
like if you have you have experiences, if you experience PTSD during a
(18:40):
raid, what do we do wetalk about it as a crew, Like
I think that this is a moniker. This is one of the anchors of
what like draws in the queer communityto this show because the queer community has
a deep foundation with chosen family,and I think this this show is like
(19:03):
like the show is showing chosen familyhow they can come together, how there
is like a parental figure who isguiding these like misfits who don't fit into
society and they're there's nurturing and there'sunderstanding, and I think that speaks to
a lot of us when we havechosen family like that. It's not specifically
(19:29):
queer, but most queer family likepeople like you know, they get rejected
from their home life and they arenot welcomed into their households, and so
they there's a creation of an outsidefamily that is sometimes stronger than the blood
relations that you have, clearly becauseif a blood relation was strong, it
(19:53):
would it wouldn't cause that riff becauseof a gender identity or or a sexual
orientation. But I think, yeah, this this is driving deep and I
think this is what has really touchedthe the like LGBTQ like viewership in a
(20:15):
way that's like made them like likeI don't know, just like the Champion
the show like that. I don'tknow how many memes you've seen of like
Steve Bonnett and as a cartoon animeQT, but I've seen so many.
Yeah, I don't know. So, like another display of this kind of
(20:37):
chosen family aspect of it is likeyou you know, you see all these
men on the ship and they're essentiallyall equals and there's never any mention of
race. But then when they haveto pretend to be a part of you
know, regular society, right withtheir wigs and fancy boy outfits, the
you know, the white men aresitting at the table and the black and
brown men are servants. And solike their ship you know, doesn't have
(21:02):
all these you know, cultural whatam I trying to say, hierarchies,
Yes, like a racial hierarchy doesn'texist in this like semi utopian ship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. AndI love the fact that like one of
the crew members throws a knife intothe hand of like the British soldier for
(21:26):
insulting his crew member, Like youinsulted my crew member because of the color
of their skin, and so youwill pay for that, And that's what
like causes the violence in that inthat part of the ship. I love
that the British officer said that theirtea tasted like dishwater because it was probably
(21:47):
dishwater. I don't think they haveproperty unless it's had a Steed's cabin.
Steed surely has proper tea. Yeah, but you think they had enough time
to prepare property. I don't know. They seemed pretty focused on the wardrobe.
Yeah, I uh, But Ithought that was interesting that, like
(22:10):
the British officers were definitely like soupset that the black and brown individuals in
the ship were had opinions and werevoicing them. Well, it's because they
came up and they found the fuckingflags. They were going through the flags
and laughing at them, and thecrew took it very personally because everyone was
(22:34):
so passionate about the flag that theycreated. Yeah, and everybody had their
vision and they were like really confusedabout like the like what is this a
bit a pillowcase? And they're like, no, it's a pirate flag.
And he's like, is this askull eating another skull? Were they cannibals?
(22:56):
And then there was one where oneof them was just throwing up but
I thought that was so creative.And then the skeleton holding its own head
that was Swedes, and you couldtell Swede was like that is terrifying.
And then the cat. The catwas my favorite because of the beliefs that
(23:18):
Frenchie has about cats. They arewitches with knives on their hands who steal
the breath of children. Yes,he is so superstitious, and I don't
recall if there's ever a scene withhim and a cat, but I hope
(23:38):
there is. But yeah, theywere like really upset and Frenchie was defending
his cat flag. It was thelast flag that they were like looking at
before Jim stabbed that front, thatBritish officer through the hand and then all
(23:59):
hell bred close and Steed was reminiscingquote unquote reminiscing with his ex his bully.
He's still bullying him about like whatthey've been up to, I guess,
and he's like, what's his name, the British officer or the general
or what is he is? Bully? Yeah? Was Nigel? Nigel?
(24:22):
Nigel? Well, Nigel is likeI heard a rumor that you left your
family to become a pirate and Steed'slike, yeah I did, and he's
like haha, no way, andhe doesn't believe him. He laughs at
him again, you know, likeI don't know how humiliating would that be
to to confront your bully. You'reliving the life you want to live,
(24:45):
but they like to mean you forit still, like they don't believe that
you're living the life you're living andthat you're capable of it. And I
could see like Steed before they wentto like pillage or whatever pirate, he
asked a couple of the crew memberslike for some pointers on how to like
(25:08):
fight in general, and Jim wasthere, and Jim was like, that's
trying to like show him like howto handle a sword, and well,
what's his name, Jim's friend hisshort name, uh, Alie Ali Allie
Allie he he uh. He's like, that's kill, that's kill, that's
(25:32):
kill, that's a kill, Andthat triggered Steeds like PTSD and he's like,
no, I don't want to killanybody, Like how do I stun
somebody? How do I just likerender them? Like what is the word
unconscious? Unconscious? Yeah? Andthey're like, oh, you just hit
him in the back of the head. And he was like calling that back
(25:56):
when he was with Nigel because Nigelhad Nigel had his sword out and Steed
hits him on the back of thehead with this little brass whale the cutest
little brass whale I've ever seen,and he knocks him unconscious, but he
falls straight onto his sword and that'swhen Ollie comes back and he's like,
(26:19):
oh no, you want to live, right, you have to snap out
of it. You did this onpurpose. This is how you gain respect
from your crew and you live anotherday. And I think that advice,
like the way that he spoke tohim, like some of us need that
where somebody like grabs you and shakesyou and looks at you and says,
(26:40):
hey, this is real, thisis happening, Like, oh shit,
I really enjoyed that. I feellike his crew is like saving his life
and he he has. He comesup with a plan to send back one
of the British officers in a similarfashion of how he was tormented as a
(27:03):
child, where they tie his handsto the ore of a ship and make
him row back and they keep acouple of hostages. And I'm interested to
see what happens next, Like it'sit's a really good episode to like establish
the crew, give us the dynamicsand tell us what the story is,
(27:26):
while also wanting you to check infor the next one, like what's going
to happen with these weird cast ofcharacters. Yeah, it really it establishes
Steed very well. I mean he'sthe one character that got really kind of
fleshed out with backstory and everything,and you kind of see that he's kind
of this bumbling idiot who's going tostumble backwards into you know, things working
(27:48):
out and he's starting to win overhis crew slowly. Astoral queen who was
the standout character in the episode?So this is, you know, a
character that stands out in any way, shape or for him, whether they
be the hero of the episode orsomeone who you know experiences something traumatic or
(28:11):
does something funny or just relatable orwhatever we choose. Yeah, and at
the end of the series will kindof tally up and see who is the
astral queen overall? Was your astralqueen for this first episode? I was
gonna pick Ollie? Yeah, Yeah, because he he's the one that's like
(28:32):
he kind of saves the day withcalming down Steed and getting him to recognize
like what he needs to do withthis situation having killed Nigel and how he
needs to kind of own that anduse that. And he's also one that's
like, you know this life he'screated for us, isn't that bad?
Yeah, he sees the reality ofwhat it could be. And that's what
(28:55):
I picked him too. Yeah,I pick him too because he's he's a
really strong care character even though he'snot he doesn't I don't know if he's
quite a main character yet because wedon't know a lot about him, but
he is definitely a standout character.Like his end his acting is really good,
and we don't see a lot oflike dark skin fat people on TV,
(29:19):
and he is like very present,very visible, and very like very
much contributing to the storyline and movingit forward in a way that is positive
and engaging and realistic in a lotof ways, like he brings reality to
the table in a show where it'svery it's a little fantastical. So yeah,
(29:41):
I like his portrayal of this characterand I'm excited to see what this
character does moving forward, especially becausehe knows Jim's secret. Yeah, so
that's interesting. All right. Well, that's two astral Queen Awards for him
start off strong. So the nextepisode, episode two, is called a
(30:03):
Damned Man, And so, Imean there's eighteen episodes of the show,
so hopefully over the next eighteen weeks, we'll stay on track and cover them
all. But that wraps it upfor this episode, and we're going to
go into our spoiler section where we'refree to discuss anything else from the season
and next season. So if youhaven't seen any of those episodes, then
(30:25):
you'll want to jump ship now you'vefound that pun with me. But otherwise
stick around and we'll talk spoilers.Let's put our living stereo stylists in this
group. Grace for imtact spoilers ahead. If you haven't seen the whole series,
now is the time to say goodbye. Remember you can contact us at
(30:49):
Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com, findus on social media, share your thoughts
and be a part of the discussionspoilers in five for three two one.
Oh my god, I'm counting downthe days the episodes for black Beard,
right, yeah, so awesome inthis Like I'm so excited the show,
(31:15):
Like I wish I could watch itover with new eyes again. Like I
know it's gonna happen and it's gonnabe great, but I wish I could
like be surprised. It is interesting, like the show takes a moment to
establish itself before bringing in black Beardand bringing in the you know, the
turn of the This is like aromantic story. Yeah, yeah, this
(31:36):
is this is a different show,and it does turn. But then there's
also an element of like, likethey go through so much black Beard and
Steed, and in this in thisseason specifically, Steed helps Blackbeard open up
to being a vulnerable person and wantingmore out of his life than just like
(31:57):
Murder and Mayhem, and Blackbeard showSteed how to be a real pirate.
And I think they give each otherso much, and that's rooted in some
truth like that no one knows alot about, like why they sailed together,
but black Beard and Steed Bonnet reallysailed together. Yeah. Yeah,
that's in the Wikipedia page, whichis, yeah, the source of all
(32:22):
truth. Yeah, and so yeah, I mean the show fills in the
gaps with this romantic storyline. Butwell, and honestly, if you think
about it, piracy, there's noway there wasn't gay sex and gay shit
going on on that boat. Abunch of dudes on a ship for months
at a time. What else werethey gonna do for a fun And also
(32:43):
they're outcasts, they're people who arenot wanted in society. Who is that
I feel like, And I feellike, you know, within pirate culture,
there is like this flamboyance. Thereis like this like I don't know,
just kind of like adornment and likestyle element that was only accessible for
(33:07):
the most part to the rich.But because these men had access to loot,
they were able to accessoriz and gettattoos or peer scenes and do different
body modifications. And I don't know, I just I find it very hard
to believe that there wasn't gay shitgoing on on a pirate ship. Like
(33:28):
give me an orange so I don'tget scurvy and let me suck that dick.
Baby. It's kind of like thesame thing that happens in prison,
where men who don't typically code themselvesas queer engage in queer activity as a
form of survival or as a formof escape from the reality of like the
(33:51):
hard conditions that you live in.So it's very much like I'm like,
that's kind of how I see itin some ways, Like you can't tell
me they'ren't gay shit going on inprison. You can't tell me they're engage
shit going on in piracy. Yeah, And I brought up the show Black
sales earlier, and in that show, like the Captain of the Ship,
it's like at first, like it'skind of confusing, like why was this
(34:13):
like upstanding guy, why did hetransition to being a pirate? And then
later it's revealed like, oh,he was a gay man and he was
not being accepted in his life inEngland, So like, yeah, I
think that is a pirate society iswhere you might land. Yeah, it's
open, it's free, it's lawless, the standards of society are different and
(34:36):
probably more accepting. Later on inthe show, we're going to find out
that there's like a pirate queen fromChina. Women were allowed to do things
in pirate ships and in pirate likesettings that they weren't allowed to do in
general society. So it's very interestingto explore this and to see it represented
(34:59):
on so to like diverse cast isso cool because I feel like, yeah,
if you're sailing in Barbados and inthe Caribbean, of course you're going
to have black and brown people onboard. But I don't know, it's
interesting because the white supremacy is stillreal and I like how they address it
in this show, like how they'renot they're like, that's not cool,
(35:21):
bro, I like that. Idon't know, but I'm excited. Yeah,
definitely looking forward to everything that comeand this, like specifically how this
show highlights multiple queer relationships and queercharacters. Oh yeah, there's a trouple
in the second season. Yeah,and you know, I'd forgotten that,
(35:42):
Like Jim was like undercover at thebeginning. But Jim is a non binary
character. Jim is a non binaryperson as an actor to Vico Ortis is
a non binary person. Yeah,playing a non binary character, which is
really hard in Hollywood, Like Hollywood, will I are a straight white man
to play like a queer Asian person, you know what I mean. So
(36:10):
I think it's like very subversive inthe casting and the directing and the storytelling.
It's all very like today. It'sof the time, and I just
love it. But it's also setin the world where people couldn't even think
about that in a way, butit's like normal for them. I love
(36:34):
it. It's like great, it'slike revisionist history but with a queer twist
and a multi cultural lens. AndI kind of love that for us,
and I think we can leave itat that. Yeah, all right,
so we will see you next timefor the episode of Damned Man. Until
then, thank you for sailing onthe revenge and watch out for cats because
they have knives on their feet.Thank you for spacing out with Bob and
(36:59):
Jason. You can help us outby subscribing and leaving a positive rating or
review. Next time we will coverour Flag Means Death season one, episode
two, a Damned Man. Wehope you will join us
Welcome to Spacing Out with BB andJason, this week covering Our Flag Means
Death Season one, Episode one pilot. Ye, welcome to spacy Now.
I'm BB and I'm Jason, andtoday we will be discussing Our Flag Means
(00:20):
Death. Before we start, youshould know this podcast is being released on
two different feeds, So if youfound it through the Spacing Out with our
Flag Means Death feed, then youare welcome to check out our main feed,
Spacing Out BB and Jason, whereyou will find this show plus others.
We covered all of Battlestar Galactica,some Star Trek, and then we'll
continue into other series after we finishthis one. And since since this is
(00:41):
a new thing, we're starting herewith this show, I figured we should
do some introductions again. Oh so, my name is Jason. My pronouns
are he slash him, and let'ssee. I have a background in film
because I went to film school andI've been kind of in and out of
film production in my career. Andthen I discovered Our Flag Means Death through
(01:03):
my co host Bby here. Yes, how did you find it? It
was on the internet. A lotpeople were talking about this really cool,
like subversive pirate show, and Iwas like interested in it because I like
pirate shows. Like the last goodpirate show I saw might have been maybe
(01:26):
like the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise. And I heard that there was a
twist in this one that was interesting, and I was like, let's check
it out. And I started watchingit and I really enjoyed it. I
thought it had a lot of heartand a lot of like depths of character
development, and the cost doing andthe production value was really great. So
(01:53):
I'm like a true like a fanatticand now like I love it. I
follow all their like meme pages andactors. They were affected by the actor
strike so they couldn't post anything,and then when the actor strike was over,
there was like a floodgate of memesfrom the second season that we're coming
(02:13):
in and like images of them onset that was so exciting to see.
But yeah, I just found itonline. It was something that was in
on my radar, and I thinkit's part of no spoilers, I guess,
but a little bit of a spoiler. It's like a queer centric show,
and I think the queer community reallycame out for it figuratively and physically.
(02:38):
Yeah. Oh, and I'm Iguess I'm not a film person per
se, but I am I loveand enjoy film and media in general.
Like We've been doing this podcast fora while and I've always I've enjoyed doing
it, like talking about the differentelements of like what makes a show good
(02:59):
and the writing and all that.So I like this show and I'm excited
to get into it. Oh andmy pronouns are she they Yeah, And
I was at a little resistant toget into this, so I guess it
should be clear that we've both seenthe show already all the way through,
so this is a rewatch for us. I was a little resistant just because
I had just watched another pirate showcalled Black Sales, which I really enjoyed,
(03:23):
and it just seemed like, onpaper, it sounded very similar to
this, but it's really not.But I'll probably bring that show up a
few times while we're podcasting, sobe warned. You should also know we're
gonna have a spoiler section at theend of the podcast where we are free
to discuss any future events in thetimeline of the series. So if you
are on your first watch of theseries, you'll just need to skip that
(03:44):
clearly marked section at the end ofthe podcast, but otherwise we won't be
spoiling anything past this episode, whichis our Flag means Death. Season one,
episode one, title pilot and thisaired on March third, twenty twenty
two. Written by David Jenkins whois the creator and showrunner, and directed
by Taikawatiti. In this episode,Steve Bonnett, a wealthy Barbadian landowner,
(04:08):
abandons his wife and children for lifeas a pirate captain to prevent his crew
from mutanting due to his lack ofexperiences, He chooses the nearest large ship
for them, the Pillage, whichturns out to be a Royal Navy warship
captained by Steed's childhood bully, NigelBadminton. While the crew pretends to be
aristocrats, Steve unintentionally causes Nigel tostab himself through the eye with the sword,
(04:28):
leaving his crew impressed. Vive checkDid we like the episode overall?
How does it stand the test oftime? Do we like the episode overall?
Yes? Yes? Bullheardly Yes,Mike. What a great episode to
start like this series, like introducingthis cast of characters and n'erty Wells being
(04:53):
bled by this very soft man.Yeah, it definitely sets the tone right
away, like what kind of likea comedy. This is the dynamics of
the crew and the captain and justlike yeah, it's it's it's the humor
in that, like they're from veryopposing size, but they all have like
(05:14):
one mission. Yeah, and everyevery character is kind of funny in their
own way, and it's really likethere's no one in there that's just like
a I don't know, a straightman type of person, like ridiculous people
on the same boat. Yeah,trivia time, What facts could we uncover
for the pilot episode? All Right, a little bit of trivia about the
(05:38):
episode and the show as a whole. So creator and showrunner David Jenkins was
inspired to write the show after learningabout Steve Bonnett from his wife and subsequently
reading his Wikipedia article. Yeah,this is a real story, Like this
is a real man that actually likewent out to see and left behind his
like life, his wealthy life lifeto become the quote unquote, well,
(06:02):
I don't want to say, we'llleave it there. He's just he's like
a real person. It's based inreal life, and I think that's really
cool that they are like imagining whatit was like for him to be out
at sea as this like fancy boy. Yeah, and just pulling from his
Wikipedia article real quick, Like alot of what they show in this first
(06:26):
episode is from his real story.So like, he had this ship,
the Revenge, built with the gunson it, and this is very unusual,
as most pirates seize their ships bymutiny, by boarding them or converting
a private vessel. And he enlisteda crew and relied on a quartermaster an
officer for their knowledge of sailing.As results not very respected by his crew.
(06:47):
He paid the crew wages and notshares a plunder, so like,
yeah, they brought all that intothe show and it's an interesting creed if
you want to browse his the article, and there's some stuff in there that
I don't want to mention yet becauseit definitely plays into the storyline of the
actual show too. Yeah, butit's also like very little known history.
(07:08):
Like you think of famous pirates,you don't think of Steve Bomitt Bonnett.
You don't think of Steve Bonnett asa famous pirate or a name that sticks
out. So it's an interesting characterto focus on. So Taika, wait,
he became involved as executive producer anda director first, and then he
will later go on to join thecast. Reece Starby He's he plays Steve
(07:31):
Bonnett. He's known for his comedicsupporting roles, but he's always has an
opportunity to step into a leading role. And the creator said that he made
an otherwise unlikable Steed Bonnet likable.Yeah, I can see that, Like
you're always kind of rooting for himbecause he's so inept. Yeah. Theo
Darby, who is ree Starby's son, played the young version of Steve Bonnett.
(07:54):
He was really good, Yeah,picking those flowers and getting blood all
over his face. Then, sceneson The Revenge are filmed on a sound
stage using stagecraft, which is atechnology that uses LED screens for the backgrounds,
originally developed from the Mandalorian. Soif you ever see like behind the
scenes footage of one of those soundstage, it's actually really cool because it's
like the backgrounds are all pre renderedand they react to how the camera moves
(08:18):
to create the perspective. So that'sall they're shooting all these scenes and getting
that good production value on the shipDeep Space Dive. Let's break down some
of our thoughts on the episode.You can share your thoughts with us through
email or social media. We mayuse your comments on an upcoming episode.
(08:39):
All right, what do we do? What do we jump into? Well,
let's talk about how like nurturing andkind and thoughtful Steed Bonnet is portrayed
in this as a leader, andhow like that would be an ideal leader
in most situations, Like you wouldlike the environment that he is giving these
(09:01):
men where they are all held inhigh regard and treated as equals and have
a voice in their Like piracy isso like revolutionary in a way, because
we don't do that anywhere, Likewe don't have that kind of structure in
like corporate America or even in likeother sectors of business and engagement, Like
(09:28):
that's what we strive for, right, that's what we want to see in
leadership, But capitalism has made itso that it's more like toxic. Like
there's a lot of toxic workplaces,and you would expect a pirate ship to
be a toxic workplace, and that'snot the environment at all. Although you
(09:50):
know, people are always going tofind something to complain about, and these
pirates obviously do. The crew islike complaining about like not having plundered.
Well, it's such an unusual environmentfor them that it's uncomfortable. Yeah,
Like they don't want to accept thisweird kind of democracy on this pirate ship.
(10:11):
Like there's a way these ships runand it's not by like majority rule
or whatever. Right, we don'twe don't all make a flag and then
vote on which flag is the bestand then in the end we fly all
the flags. Flags. Those weregreat, They were great. There was
such a like invigorating part, Likefor me, like the whole interaction with
(10:35):
the flags was like the heart ofand I think where the show gets its
name in a lot of ways.But it's like, okay, so you
have a complaint. We don't evenhave a flag. Let's fix that.
Here are some materials where we cancreate together a symbol that represents us as
a group. And they're all beingcreative and at first they're like pooh pooing.
(10:58):
They're like, I ain't gonna sew. That's that's a woman's thing.
And he's like, hey, nowdo you any of you sew? Like
do you think that's like that's notvery nice? And uh, one of
the guys, I forget his namenow, he's like, I think his
name is Cookie. He's like,I sewed my shoulder up once and he
(11:20):
showed this like huge scar on hisshoulder with the stitching, and he's like,
yeah, see, sewing can betough. And it was just like
the reframing of something that went fromnegative to positive, so like indicative of
the character of Steve Bonnet and thelike unwavering support and like purity of that
(11:43):
character. And I just love that. Like it was so good and everybody
was just sitting there sewing and thenuh, because it's like going through comedy,
like it's just casually challenging, likethis idea of masculinity. Yeah,
yeah, it's like, let's sew, let's do something together. That's like
(12:03):
traditionally, when you think of agroup of people who are sewing, you
think of old women typically like asewing circle or a quote circle. A
bitch and stitch is what they callthem. It's true. Well, I've
been a part of a couple,so I've been I've been familiarized with the
(12:26):
bitch and stitch and it's a greatlike communal space to create and and do
like expel grievances and and and alsolike just and that is kind of where
they come up with their plan tomutiny, So it harbors creativity and in
more ways than not, and fuckingbuttons. He's like hearing everybody and he's
(12:52):
like straight to the captain. He'sgonna snitch. I thought that was interesting.
Yeah, his loyalty to the captainin this episode, Like he's the
one who announces him at the veryfirst sight of him. He's like,
everybody, pay attention or to yourcaptain. That was him announcing. And
you can see him always at thewheel, so you can tell that he
(13:13):
has a high ranking position within thecrew. That's kind of cool to see
him like be loyal to Steve Bonnettand be like, hey, captain,
you got mutiny afoot. Yeah,it's interesting just because I mean we're not
going to spoil anything with these characters, but like the first time watching,
like it's a lot of characters totake in. Yeah, and so like
(13:35):
by the end of the season orthe series, like you have a much
or a grass with these characters.So it's always interesting to come back to
the start and like see everyone atthe beginning of their role and really like
I'm more familiar with who they are, and I can kind of just follow
their stories a little better. Yeah, Yeah, I think it's really interesting
to see them unfold. I reallylike Gosh, I always forget I'm so
(13:58):
bad at names. I hate myselffor that. But the documentarian, the
one who is annotating everything that SteveBonnet is saying, Lucius Lucius. So
Lucius is also in a high rankingposition, which is close to the pet
captain, and it doesn't seem likehe likes it too much already off the
(14:22):
bat, like, because he waslike, I'm down for the mutiny,
y'all. But one of the thingsthat Steve Bonnett said was that I have
a library, we have a wreckroom, we have this like wonderful ship
with all these amenities. And he'slike, but nobody's taken me up on
the library except you, Lucius.And he's like, well, I'm the
only one who can read. Andhe's like, that's not true, Like
(14:45):
he doesn't want to believe. Yeah, he's so out of touch with what
these reality's giving him, like awreck room and a library. Yeah,
reading them stories at night, whichactually like yeah, they really like that,
and they don't the only thing thatsaves him from mutiny that day was
that Lucius can't do the Pinocchio voice. So I feel like there's a lot
(15:11):
of like lightheartedness in this show thatis really like endearing. I don't know,
it's really good. And then likethat rude one that wanted to do
the mutiny who said he used tosail with Blackbeard, who's like stir in
the pot that is black Peat,black Pete. Okay, Well, he
(15:35):
automatically assigns himself as leader in thevacuum structure that would like create like a
void in a leadership role. Andthey're like, I don't know what about
Jim, And Jim is a muteallegedly, and we note and then at
the end of the scene or atthe end of the episode, we see
(15:56):
that Jim has a false identity yes, and can't talk yeah, And I'm
not sure how to say his nameal I think they call him Alli.
That's Jim's friend that is aware ofJim's identity. He's also a hang ranking
member from the crew based on thefact that he ran to the captain's aid
(16:17):
when he accidentally murdered uh that guy. It was him and Lucius that ran
in and were like, what's whatdo you need what's going on? So
you can tell, like who's closeto the captain in this episode a little
bit more, and like I likethe advice he gave him where he's like
no, like do you want tolive? Like no? Do you?
(16:38):
Like? Are you like he snappedhim into reality because like in this episode
we get a glimpse of a babyBonnet that's his like the name they teased
him with. But he was ababy, He was a little boy,
and you could tell that he hadsensitive like tendencies. He had a very
gentle way about him picking flowers andlike flinching at the sight of like foul
(17:07):
being like slaughtered and prepared. Andhis father was so rude to him,
What a terrible father, Like that'sso sad. And then like even in
his home life as an adult man, in his home life, his wife
seems to hate him, Like hiskids seem cool or whatever, very distant.
Like the way that they set thetable where he was at one end
(17:30):
and everybody else was on the otherend near mom. Yeah, that was
weird because like, well, no, that's like how you set the scene
though, That's how you can tella story without saying anything. That he
has it works, Yeah, butit is weird and jarring in a family
to have dad sit all the wayover there. But if that's their normal,
(17:52):
that would I mean, I couldsee what would drive him to like
fantasize and dream about being out inthe open sea in a place where he
creates his own family. Yeah.And then near the end of the episode,
when he's kind of reminiscing fondly overhis family, you see he has
pulled his chair around to the sideand is up next to them. So
that's a very good like visual language, like a shortcut just to tell us
(18:17):
that there's you know. Yeah.But so the episode you can see that
like it's going to deal a lotwith trauma, and you get you highlight
Steed's childhood trauma throughout the episode withhis father and his family and his bully.
And then also like how he's approachingthe crew to like talk things out,
like if you have you have experiences, if you experience PTSD during a
(18:40):
raid, what do we do wetalk about it as a crew, Like
I think that this is a moniker. This is one of the anchors of
what like draws in the queer communityto this show because the queer community has
a deep foundation with chosen family,and I think this this show is like
(19:03):
like the show is showing chosen familyhow they can come together, how there
is like a parental figure who isguiding these like misfits who don't fit into
society and they're there's nurturing and there'sunderstanding, and I think that speaks to
a lot of us when we havechosen family like that. It's not specifically
(19:29):
queer, but most queer family likepeople like you know, they get rejected
from their home life and they arenot welcomed into their households, and so
they there's a creation of an outsidefamily that is sometimes stronger than the blood
relations that you have, clearly becauseif a blood relation was strong, it
(19:53):
would it wouldn't cause that riff becauseof a gender identity or or a sexual
orientation. But I think, yeah, this this is driving deep and I
think this is what has really touchedthe the like LGBTQ like viewership in a
(20:15):
way that's like made them like likeI don't know, just like the Champion
the show like that. I don'tknow how many memes you've seen of like
Steve Bonnett and as a cartoon animeQT, but I've seen so many.
Yeah, I don't know. So, like another display of this kind of
(20:37):
chosen family aspect of it is likeyou you know, you see all these
men on the ship and they're essentiallyall equals and there's never any mention of
race. But then when they haveto pretend to be a part of you
know, regular society, right withtheir wigs and fancy boy outfits, the
you know, the white men aresitting at the table and the black and
brown men are servants. And solike their ship you know, doesn't have
(21:02):
all these you know, cultural whatam I trying to say, hierarchies,
Yes, like a racial hierarchy doesn'texist in this like semi utopian ship.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. AndI love the fact that like one of
the crew members throws a knife intothe hand of like the British soldier for
(21:26):
insulting his crew member, Like youinsulted my crew member because of the color
of their skin, and so youwill pay for that, And that's what
like causes the violence in that inthat part of the ship. I love
that the British officer said that theirtea tasted like dishwater because it was probably
(21:47):
dishwater. I don't think they haveproperty unless it's had a Steed's cabin.
Steed surely has proper tea. Yeah, but you think they had enough time
to prepare property. I don't know. They seemed pretty focused on the wardrobe.
Yeah, I uh, But Ithought that was interesting that, like
(22:10):
the British officers were definitely like soupset that the black and brown individuals in
the ship were had opinions and werevoicing them. Well, it's because they
came up and they found the fuckingflags. They were going through the flags
and laughing at them, and thecrew took it very personally because everyone was
(22:34):
so passionate about the flag that theycreated. Yeah, and everybody had their
vision and they were like really confusedabout like the like what is this a
bit a pillowcase? And they're like, no, it's a pirate flag.
And he's like, is this askull eating another skull? Were they cannibals?
(22:56):
And then there was one where oneof them was just throwing up but
I thought that was so creative.And then the skeleton holding its own head
that was Swedes, and you couldtell Swede was like that is terrifying.
And then the cat. The catwas my favorite because of the beliefs that
(23:18):
Frenchie has about cats. They arewitches with knives on their hands who steal
the breath of children. Yes,he is so superstitious, and I don't
recall if there's ever a scene withhim and a cat, but I hope
(23:38):
there is. But yeah, theywere like really upset and Frenchie was defending
his cat flag. It was thelast flag that they were like looking at
before Jim stabbed that front, thatBritish officer through the hand and then all
(23:59):
hell bred close and Steed was reminiscingquote unquote reminiscing with his ex his bully.
He's still bullying him about like whatthey've been up to, I guess,
and he's like, what's his name, the British officer or the general
or what is he is? Bully? Yeah? Was Nigel? Nigel?
(24:22):
Nigel? Well, Nigel is likeI heard a rumor that you left your
family to become a pirate and Steed'slike, yeah I did, and he's
like haha, no way, andhe doesn't believe him. He laughs at
him again, you know, likeI don't know how humiliating would that be
to to confront your bully. You'reliving the life you want to live,
(24:45):
but they like to mean you forit still, like they don't believe that
you're living the life you're living andthat you're capable of it. And I
could see like Steed before they wentto like pillage or whatever pirate, he
asked a couple of the crew memberslike for some pointers on how to like
(25:08):
fight in general, and Jim wasthere, and Jim was like, that's
trying to like show him like howto handle a sword, and well,
what's his name, Jim's friend hisshort name, uh, Alie Ali Allie
Allie he he uh. He's like, that's kill, that's kill, that's
(25:32):
kill, that's a kill, Andthat triggered Steeds like PTSD and he's like,
no, I don't want to killanybody, Like how do I stun
somebody? How do I just likerender them? Like what is the word
unconscious? Unconscious? Yeah? Andthey're like, oh, you just hit
him in the back of the head. And he was like calling that back
(25:56):
when he was with Nigel because Nigelhad Nigel had his sword out and Steed
hits him on the back of thehead with this little brass whale the cutest
little brass whale I've ever seen,and he knocks him unconscious, but he
falls straight onto his sword and that'swhen Ollie comes back and he's like,
(26:19):
oh no, you want to live, right, you have to snap out
of it. You did this onpurpose. This is how you gain respect
from your crew and you live anotherday. And I think that advice,
like the way that he spoke tohim, like some of us need that
where somebody like grabs you and shakesyou and looks at you and says,
(26:40):
hey, this is real, thisis happening, Like, oh shit,
I really enjoyed that. I feellike his crew is like saving his life
and he he has. He comesup with a plan to send back one
of the British officers in a similarfashion of how he was tormented as a
(27:03):
child, where they tie his handsto the ore of a ship and make
him row back and they keep acouple of hostages. And I'm interested to
see what happens next, Like it'sit's a really good episode to like establish
the crew, give us the dynamicsand tell us what the story is,
(27:26):
while also wanting you to check infor the next one, like what's going
to happen with these weird cast ofcharacters. Yeah, it really it establishes
Steed very well. I mean he'sthe one character that got really kind of
fleshed out with backstory and everything,and you kind of see that he's kind
of this bumbling idiot who's going tostumble backwards into you know, things working
(27:48):
out and he's starting to win overhis crew slowly. Astoral queen who was
the standout character in the episode?So this is, you know, a
character that stands out in any way, shape or for him, whether they
be the hero of the episode orsomeone who you know experiences something traumatic or
(28:11):
does something funny or just relatable orwhatever we choose. Yeah, and at
the end of the series will kindof tally up and see who is the
astral queen overall? Was your astralqueen for this first episode? I was
gonna pick Ollie? Yeah, Yeah, because he he's the one that's like
(28:32):
he kind of saves the day withcalming down Steed and getting him to recognize
like what he needs to do withthis situation having killed Nigel and how he
needs to kind of own that anduse that. And he's also one that's
like, you know this life he'screated for us, isn't that bad?
Yeah, he sees the reality ofwhat it could be. And that's what
(28:55):
I picked him too. Yeah,I pick him too because he's he's a
really strong care character even though he'snot he doesn't I don't know if he's
quite a main character yet because wedon't know a lot about him, but
he is definitely a standout character.Like his end his acting is really good,
and we don't see a lot oflike dark skin fat people on TV,
(29:19):
and he is like very present,very visible, and very like very
much contributing to the storyline and movingit forward in a way that is positive
and engaging and realistic in a lotof ways, like he brings reality to
the table in a show where it'svery it's a little fantastical. So yeah,
(29:41):
I like his portrayal of this characterand I'm excited to see what this
character does moving forward, especially becausehe knows Jim's secret. Yeah, so
that's interesting. All right. Well, that's two astral Queen Awards for him
start off strong. So the nextepisode, episode two, is called a
(30:03):
Damned Man, And so, Imean there's eighteen episodes of the show,
so hopefully over the next eighteen weeks, we'll stay on track and cover them
all. But that wraps it upfor this episode, and we're going to
go into our spoiler section where we'refree to discuss anything else from the season
and next season. So if youhaven't seen any of those episodes, then
(30:25):
you'll want to jump ship now you'vefound that pun with me. But otherwise
stick around and we'll talk spoilers.Let's put our living stereo stylists in this
group. Grace for imtact spoilers ahead. If you haven't seen the whole series,
now is the time to say goodbye. Remember you can contact us at
(30:49):
Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com, findus on social media, share your thoughts
and be a part of the discussionspoilers in five for three two one.
Oh my god, I'm counting downthe days the episodes for black Beard,
right, yeah, so awesome inthis Like I'm so excited the show,
(31:15):
Like I wish I could watch itover with new eyes again. Like I
know it's gonna happen and it's gonnabe great, but I wish I could
like be surprised. It is interesting, like the show takes a moment to
establish itself before bringing in black Beardand bringing in the you know, the
turn of the This is like aromantic story. Yeah, yeah, this
(31:36):
is this is a different show,and it does turn. But then there's
also an element of like, likethey go through so much black Beard and
Steed, and in this in thisseason specifically, Steed helps Blackbeard open up
to being a vulnerable person and wantingmore out of his life than just like
(31:57):
Murder and Mayhem, and Blackbeard showSteed how to be a real pirate.
And I think they give each otherso much, and that's rooted in some
truth like that no one knows alot about, like why they sailed together,
but black Beard and Steed Bonnet reallysailed together. Yeah. Yeah,
that's in the Wikipedia page, whichis, yeah, the source of all
(32:22):
truth. Yeah, and so yeah, I mean the show fills in the
gaps with this romantic storyline. Butwell, and honestly, if you think
about it, piracy, there's noway there wasn't gay sex and gay shit
going on on that boat. Abunch of dudes on a ship for months
at a time. What else werethey gonna do for a fun And also
(32:43):
they're outcasts, they're people who arenot wanted in society. Who is that
I feel like, And I feellike, you know, within pirate culture,
there is like this flamboyance. Thereis like this like I don't know,
just kind of like adornment and likestyle element that was only accessible for
(33:07):
the most part to the rich.But because these men had access to loot,
they were able to accessoriz and gettattoos or peer scenes and do different
body modifications. And I don't know, I just I find it very hard
to believe that there wasn't gay shitgoing on on a pirate ship. Like
(33:28):
give me an orange so I don'tget scurvy and let me suck that dick.
Baby. It's kind of like thesame thing that happens in prison,
where men who don't typically code themselvesas queer engage in queer activity as a
form of survival or as a formof escape from the reality of like the
(33:51):
hard conditions that you live in.So it's very much like I'm like,
that's kind of how I see itin some ways, Like you can't tell
me they'ren't gay shit going on inprison. You can't tell me they're engage
shit going on in piracy. Yeah, And I brought up the show Black
sales earlier, and in that show, like the Captain of the Ship,
it's like at first, like it'skind of confusing, like why was this
(34:13):
like upstanding guy, why did hetransition to being a pirate? And then
later it's revealed like, oh,he was a gay man and he was
not being accepted in his life inEngland, So like, yeah, I
think that is a pirate society iswhere you might land. Yeah, it's
open, it's free, it's lawless, the standards of society are different and
(34:36):
probably more accepting. Later on inthe show, we're going to find out
that there's like a pirate queen fromChina. Women were allowed to do things
in pirate ships and in pirate likesettings that they weren't allowed to do in
general society. So it's very interestingto explore this and to see it represented
(34:59):
on so to like diverse cast isso cool because I feel like, yeah,
if you're sailing in Barbados and inthe Caribbean, of course you're going
to have black and brown people onboard. But I don't know, it's
interesting because the white supremacy is stillreal and I like how they address it
in this show, like how they'renot they're like, that's not cool,
(35:21):
bro, I like that. Idon't know, but I'm excited. Yeah,
definitely looking forward to everything that comeand this, like specifically how this
show highlights multiple queer relationships and queercharacters. Oh yeah, there's a trouple
in the second season. Yeah,and you know, I'd forgotten that,
(35:42):
Like Jim was like undercover at thebeginning. But Jim is a non binary
character. Jim is a non binaryperson as an actor to Vico Ortis is
a non binary person. Yeah,playing a non binary character, which is
really hard in Hollywood, Like Hollywood, will I are a straight white man
to play like a queer Asian person, you know what I mean. So
(36:10):
I think it's like very subversive inthe casting and the directing and the storytelling.
It's all very like today. It'sof the time, and I just
love it. But it's also setin the world where people couldn't even think
about that in a way, butit's like normal for them. I love
(36:34):
it. It's like great, it'slike revisionist history but with a queer twist
and a multi cultural lens. AndI kind of love that for us,
and I think we can leave itat that. Yeah, all right,
so we will see you next timefor the episode of Damned Man. Until
then, thank you for sailing onthe revenge and watch out for cats because
they have knives on their feet.Thank you for spacing out with Bob and
(36:59):
Jason. You can help us outby subscribing and leaving a positive rating or
review. Next time we will coverour Flag Means Death season one, episode
two, a Damned Man. Wehope you will join us
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