March 17, 2023 • 23 mins
We’ve heard a lot about mums so far in the series, but what about the guys? Welcome to the “Daddy Edition”, our juicy bonus episode where we explore what it’s really like for dads going through the special needs parenting journey? Recorded live at Africa NXT 2023, join Paul Okeugo, Obinna Okerekeocha, Remi Olutimayin and Tonye Faloughi-Ekezie as they delve into the topic from the male perspective.
In part 3 we look at what can be done to support dad’s more and answer some questions from the audience
In part 3 we look at what can be done to support dad’s more and answer some questions from the audience
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome, Welcome the avenue. Myname is to welcome to Special Moms Africa,
Real Talk on special needs parenting,the bonus episode, the Daddy Edition.
And this is the final part.So listen, take your notes and
enjoy. We've had some really goodnuggets. You know, you have to
(00:36):
be deliberate about it to approach withbalance. Sons judge their fathers till they
understand them. Like some great nuggets, but they're still madness going on out
there right, even I hear wherethings, you know, so you're still
getting the thing. It's like,Okay, is your wife maybe should get
(00:57):
another wife? You know that someonedid occur on you. They don't want
that child in church. And youmay think this is only limited to a
certain socio economic class. It isn'tcut across. I mean I can tell
you myself, it isn't. Howyou know, do you deal with that?
(01:19):
Yeah? What else is? Becausethey will tell you to go and
find another wife. That is yourwife. So let me let me start
by saying this. When you aremaking the vow, it's for better for
worse, and the worst may notnecessarily be about what happens to you.
What happens what happens to your offspring. And the truth is, this is
the bitter truth, you know,that is what loving somebody is about at
(01:41):
the end of the day. Soif if the adversity comes, and that's
why I tell people when when peopleare about to get married, I said,
I say to them, this phaseis great, right, this is
you know, when everything is flowery, it's great. You know, you're
you're in a good place, you'redating and all that. You want to
get married, you know, butwhen you cross that rule become Once you
cross that line married, now youface the reality of life. That is
(02:02):
when the relationship starts. That's when. And part of it is, let's
how people look your your your yourchallenges may not start immediately, but it
could start when you have a kid. You have a kid that you have
problems. That is what it's about. So in the first place, if
anybody leaves, you know, likelike the example poor gave, like somebody
you know, they had a childas autistic, and then there was never
(02:23):
love in the first place. I'msorry, but that's what it is.
And I also understand that people grow, you know, and so things happen
as you developed. By at theend of the day. It's about facing
challenges, it's about dealing with problems. That is what a relationship is about
at the end of the day.You know. So if you up and
leave this is my first child,you know, how do you recover from
(02:44):
that? But then again, youremember why you you're together in the union.
You understand that at the end ofthe day, it's about having each
other's backs. It's about solving thisproblem. You know. So it's very
easy to blame that special child forthe breakup of a marriage, breakup a
relationship, Yeah, when it's actuallythe relationship had a problem and it's just
(03:05):
that's that's highlighted. Yeah, that'snot opened up the real taking off the
village you like. Yeah, Soyou know, for men, you've got
to deal with keeping the family together. You've got to deal with prejudice outside,
you've got to deal with the cultureof what it is to be a
man. And you're going through this. I mean, I know it was
difficult for my husband. How dowe help men find their voice? How
(03:31):
do we say it's safe, it'sokay to talk. What can be done?
I'm just gonna throw it out thereto you questions. Well, I
think I'm already doing my own part. You know. The thing is.
The thing is there are many peoplemy age who are hiding true correct as
(03:53):
in their hiding. And I thinkit must have been like thirty seven when
I realized called to my house,come and beats me. I was like,
that was that was? Look,I am who I am, I
do what I do, I doit, well, this is how I
understand. I'm going to try andfind out what exactly it is. Then
(04:15):
it was interesting enough a friend ofmine who's a psychiatrist, We've been friends
for about seven ten years now.I didn't realize what studying me. I
just knew that whenever we talked,whenever i'd say something, whenever I expressed
myself, he didn't have that.I'm sorry, if you're newotypical, there's
(04:35):
usually first there's a reaction when I'mnot speaking as myself. I see that
thing, I see that thing flash. But he wouldn't have it. He
was the one who I just camefor a look. I started reading about
autism to this, do you whatdo you think? Then said my professional
opinion, it's as burgers. Youknow that if people are not close to
(04:59):
you, they would think that youare there the thing where they think,
you know, I started sharing thiswith people because I didn't care. I
didn't care what the impressions were,like, specially news people. At the
last GT Autism conference. One ofmy friends who I had been telling I
(05:21):
think you need to. I thinkyou need to. It was like what
was as you did have panic attack? As like was like he was it
like a huge collection of things.I saw him at the conference with his
wife. This is somebody that doesnot come down. Yes, no,
yes, you were you were rememberyeah, I remember, Yeah. I
(05:42):
saw him and it was in somewhatdifficult to pull out of the house,
and he was there. He wasthere, and I think the conversations that
were held that they opened, itopened a lot for him. Because I
tried to catch up with him tosay, how are you doing, it's
been a while. He he didn'twant to have a conversation. It was
(06:08):
like there was a lot that wassuddenly on. So his wife kind of
give me a signal that, youknow what, maybe later he's not really
in a good place. I said, Okay, I said, sure,
I understand, I understand. Thething is that nobody's going to beat you.
No, no, nobody's going tobeat you, you know, regardless.
(06:28):
The thing is that the more peoplelook for help, the more people
who identify these things and step out, regardless of I'd give you the gist
of my family reactions, but thatwas just no, no, no,
no. I was like, areyou going to put a stain on the
I mean, what would people lookat? I don't care, as said,
I don't care. I've been managingthis stuff myself. I'd been wearing
(06:50):
masks around you guys for almost fourdecades because I don't want to. I
see mommy is tired. I don'twant me to be exhausted. I see
daddy's on edge. I don't wantto be the one to tip him over,
you know. I as in likeit was weird. Who's like being
(07:11):
a parents? So like you?You know, your answer is that you
just have to speak up. Youhave to find you just don't speak up.
And the thing is that the morepeople that come out, the more
people will feel comfortable and the medicalfield in Nigeria community, the community will
actually recognize it for what it actuallyis. It's not oh my god,
(07:32):
it's a recent phenomenon. Look,the man who's ask if you don't see
anybody if you don't see anybody thatis speaking up right as a dad,
you have this child who is different, and you don't have anyone around you
with a similar case. So youyou know, what do you do?
(07:57):
So? You know, so mydad is slate, write my guy,
my dad, you know. Andthere's something that he's tell me. He's
telled me, well, Paul,I'm a full He told me, the
less you say, the less youhave to account for, right and nothing.
He was drummed in my head like, the less you say, the
less you have to account for.And it's true because I apply that principle
(08:20):
in business today, Like when I'mdoing something, I know when to keep
things to my chest depending on theimpact that will that will get. Sometimes
you don't share business business ideas untilit's you know, you know. Sometimes
you share, sometimes you don't,So you have to sort of manage how
you share based on the outcomes thatyou expect from that thing. If I
(08:45):
bring it here, and the wayI sort of came into this thing is
that I've always been very specific aroundthe things that I want to do,
around how I want my family tobe, around who I want to be.
So if going back to what you'resaying with with my wife, marriage
is very hard, man. Imean we know this, and actually that's
(09:07):
how you recognize the good ones becauseit's so hard that the good ones sort
of stick out. You can tellwhen when people are right. Um,
when I got married, my wifeand I have such good friends. We
fight every day, Like I don'tremember a day where we don't fight.
But in fact, we fought thismorning three times on our way here.
(09:28):
Good time, and I still haven'tforgiven her yet. But we discussed my
family and I made it clear tomy family what my family was. You
know, there are times when myparents I made it cut it and like,
this is my family. My wifeand I and these kids are my
family. They are the first thing. Your opinion is not really required,
(09:48):
Like I think my family is veryclear on that, Like we appreciate it.
You know, if you give anopinion, we're not going to change
you away. But ultimately your opinionis not required, right, So I'll
like to start with that. Then, in terms of that decision to make
people aware, for me was youknow, if you're fortunate and you're driving
(10:09):
awareness without asking for something, peopleare more likely to listen. Have you
noticed that so if and that's whatscares men. If you say, oh,
my kid has autism and I'm doingawareness and they say that, oh,
you're a well to do guy.You know, you have some means,
and you're not really asking them foranything. You're not asking them for
(10:31):
money or anything, they're more likelyto listen, sit down and listen.
Right. And because because guys don'tlike that pity, you know, I
hate it personally, that whole prettyparty that because oh oh yes, you
know. No, no, Sothat's for me, right, I'm not
judging people who do because pity.I mean, compassion is very important and
everything that we do we must finda way to be compassionate. Right.
(10:54):
But I found that sharing people withoutsaying, hey, look, I want
something from you was the key becausethe minute he's just saying, oh,
come and you know, help uswith money, come and help us with
this. I look, this isyour problem because I have problems on my
own. So for me, awarenesswas trying to put the information out there
(11:16):
right in a neutral manner, withoutyou know, putting any sort of contingencies
or responsibilities on the person who Iwas sharing with, so they were able
to receive the information very very simply, I'll tell you something. I had
a colleague who was a friend forfourteen years. We had worked in the
(11:37):
same company for a long time andwe worked at was right next to mine.
And he has two kids on thespectrum, in fact, one on
the spectrum, one who is abit more. And they never told me,
like, and this is after I'vebeen talking about autism for like five,
six, seven years. He neverever told me. And one day
(11:58):
I found out and I'm like,yo, were brothers, right? This
is this doesn't make any sense.But people are different, right for him,
he is really the kind of guythat doesn't want anyone to pity him
at all. He doesn't want peopleto say, oh, Paul you or
he's very like like like that.But then on the other side, I
(12:20):
have friends who called me and say, Paul, thank you so much.
Like I don't really think I domuch. I just repost you know you're
on my Instagram. You see thatI am very heavy on autism information and
I have to become a Paul thankyou so much. You're really you know,
your page is where I learned mostof the stuff that I've learned about
about about autism and and and soon. And so forth. So I
(12:41):
I and look at the cause thatI really appreciate. Now. I have
friends who called me and say,hey, Paul, I have this friend
who has a son or doctor autistic. Can you can you talk of them?
And I always say, look,I can. I can help them
with the some moral but you haveto talk to my wife. I would
say, you have to talk tome, right, because she is the
one who is big in this thing. So I guess the point I'm making
(13:05):
is that I'm a firm believing balanceand in outcomes, I don't stick to
one position. I like to bea little bit balanced in the way I
look at this. Some If yousend me to Cano right now and put
me on this panel in Cano,right, I have to factor in the
fact that I am in Cano andthings sort of work differently than they do
here. Right. The same thingif you send me to Omaya, for
(13:26):
example, I'm not gonna saying,oh, you know your boys are authentiic
and this, So you also haveto read the room right, understand where
you are, you know, andthen find you know. In the marketing
we say aligned with the constrmer pathway. You know how we said that in
marketing, right, so what's thebest way to make this thing palatable?
For this you puts on? Yeah, I mean, but final thing,
(13:50):
you must do it. I thinkyou must do it because there are people
who need it. We don't evenknow. This is a deep problem.
There are many people we also sayhim in Nigeria, many like many,
But now that I know what itis, I recognize it now with that
many. So we must continue tohave these conversations. It's like the nuggets
(14:11):
that are coming out here today.I'm loving them. So we want to
put this out to the audience hereand see if you guys have any questions.
Do anybody have any questions? Hi, I'm gonna say it's a question.
First first is thank you, Thankyou, mister Paul. Everything you
(14:33):
said medicine to me. I'm todayyears old realizing what my dad was doing.
I'm not I'm thirty eight. Ididn't get my ADG diagnosis until last
year. Wow. And I guessmy dad always knew that I was different.
And everything you said of how youthe dad is one watching and seeing
(14:56):
what to do. He was onewho knew I would space out and just
go and I was it would comeme hairbrained because I would forget your name.
He said, your name was Paul. If you asked me again,
I promise you, I honestly donot remember my husband's struggle with I told
you. I'm like, I promiseyou, this isn't deliberate. I do
(15:16):
not remember, you know. Andso he was the one who was seeing
what I was lacking. And he'sfor me when he said, well how
do they cope? Was he foundout I love books, and so he
would it would have conversations about books, and he knew how I was.
My daughter was very hard. Hejust he was the one who picked us
those signs of I just know she'sdifferent. And so I thought my dad
(15:39):
was her favorite me. I didn'tknow he had seen, you know,
he had saw and he on thestood. So what I'm gonna say is,
how do we men, how dowe communicate then to your wives so
that you know what I'm just seeingthis differently. My husband now when I
told him that I've seen this now, so he's like my daughter now,
she I don't think she's on thespectrum. But what happens is when she's
(16:00):
upset, she just she just goesand hits a head on the wall.
That's only that's only stom like ascored. So she would just tell you,
you know, I don't like youthat she would go, and he's
a head on the wall, soshe does. So I'm like, so,
how do men tell like I'm learningto that. It's like they don't
see it, they're just perceiving itdifferently. So how do you compute to
(16:23):
get what? We're on the sameteam. I didn't see that fixing parts.
I promise you it never a calldthat' yes, yet I'm not chewing
you're fixing it makes sense now?Yet? So how do you men tell
there? Why that guess what?We're on the same team. I see
what you're saying, and I'm fixingit the way I can. That's That's
(16:45):
a very good questions. It's oneof those things that you call pregnant questions.
Where where I come from? Man? Well answer, what's your name?
Sorry? But is so nice tomeet you? And I love your
story because it remind me of mydad. My Popsy used to this thing
where he knew that I needed toread more because I wouldn't play so my
books. He would tell me goand read as I chapter the forty and
come, let's let's talk about it, or he would tell me he knows.
(17:07):
So my dad knew that the wayto get to me was through books.
I read so many books, youknow. When I was young,
it was ridiculous, you know,But as I grew up, I understood
that that was his way of bondingwith me, you know, and controlling
my temper, you know. Andmy mom would be like, So when
I was eight or nine, hegave me this warm piece, he said,
you know Tostoy, And I mean, my my neighbor family, you
(17:30):
know, knows about my thing withbooks. So IM's friendly. Like what
eight year old nine year old readsTostoy? Because it's very tedious, right
to read, even for an adult, it's quite tedious. But I took
to it like I would read it. What was the next one? So,
I mean, obviously he had agreat dad who, in his own
(17:51):
way try to It's difficult. It'squite difficult to communicate that to your partner.
My wife and I have constant disagreementsabout how to do things. That's
the truth. Like, you know, I'm not gonna come here and lie
on the podcast. You know,we have constant disagreements on how to do
things. Because again I'm more focusedon the thing and how it's you know,
(18:15):
works from mere to that. She'smore interested in the I think the
people Sometimes. I think what I'venow understood is that sometimes what she's doing
is more important. Sometimes what I'mdoing is more important, And it's finding
that balance. But one way thatI fixed it was that I realized that
(18:37):
whatever she's doing requires things. Areyou following me If my wife says,
for example, she's doing something whereshe's going to be vocational for kids with
autism, like focusing on vocation becausemy son, that's what we did with
my son. We just went toart music and she says, oh,
I think this should be a goodidea. My thought would be that what
are the things in that idea thatneeds to be done? So when I'm
(19:02):
talking to her, I'm talking toher about and I did that she already
had that. I'm just trying tohelp. If not, we would always
disagree on something. So like myson needs to swim. Swimming is a
big part of who he is,right And for a long time we didn't
have a pool, you know,and I was like pool, pool,
pool, pool, pool, poolpool. You guys in the estates fix
(19:22):
our pool, so so he can'tswim, and I didn't. I didn't
go on instead of me just starttaking him to their pools or around us.
I could have just taken him tothe pool to swim. I didn't.
And then one day when the houseand started that I was reading and
I didn't hear a noise. No, this is that when he wakes up,
it makes all the noises. Thehouse was quiet. I was like,
where is he? I never likeI thought he was with you,
(19:45):
He's not with me. And thenhe was missing for like six hours or
so. We were looking for him. He had left our house, walked
to the Defense climb Defense. Welived near the ocean there. I don't
know what Our beach is called theLego She we live. We live right
on a Lego She beach. Hejumped the fence and jumped into the ocean
and was swimming right just by thegrace of God, there was a guy.
(20:07):
It's early in the morning, likeseven am. There was a guy
who was walking his horse and allhis horse guys that rent horses on the
beach. And he saw the boyin the in the ocean and went in
and got him out. And thatday he would have died, and I
mean, it's ocean would never haveseen him again. When when they found
him, when he came back tothe house, and I went to my
(20:30):
room because while everybody else was saying, oh his back, he was crying,
I was like in my head,I was like, why is it
that this boy left the house,climbed the fence and went to this thing,
and is this going to stop becausehe do it again because the things
that he needs to swim. Mywife was like, oh, no,
(20:52):
she was, she was somewhere else. Oh, we need to be more
careful with the doors, and youknow, and you know, she was
somewhere else, which was not thewrong place to be. But for me,
my head was like, if wedon't find a pool very very very
soon, this boy will continue tojump his fence until one day he dies
in that ocean. And so whatI did was I poured myself into making
(21:15):
the people whose job it was tomake that pool a living hell. I
was on their necks. Femi ismy neighbor, right, I was on
their neck, on their neck literallyonto that pool was ready. And when
the pool was ready, the behaviorstopped, right. But so my wife
and I were working towards the samething, but we were doing it differently.
(21:36):
But I've also learned from your question. I think I will try better.
I think I would even have todo better to try and expect my
wife what I'm thinking, and I'mthinking maybe it will help us. That
was amazing. We have one morequestion. Good afternoon. My name is
Femmi. I should I have aquick question. I want to ask openly,
but I have a second question,which I'll ask privately to deadman in
(21:56):
the middle, because it's very importanturn to me personally, if you don't
mind. The question is I likechildren a lot, and I think they
have the potential to bring a lotof joy. You've spoken about your journeys
and we can imagine just how challengingit is. But I suspect that you
may have had some moments each ofyou, regardless of the space where your
(22:18):
child is, where you really gotsome joy. And I would love if
you would share something with us,because I would like to get something.
Yeah that well, you know,lift my spirits of it. I'm going
to throw. Yeah, So Imean joy derived from my kids, right,
Yeah, So I mean the factthat he's able to contribute, you
know, the house is able tocompete with his fellow brothers. If that
(22:41):
guy is able to you know,have you know, have his own thing,
like I want this, I don'twant that. That just gives me
joint happiness because he's a boy ofhis own. He's not he's not kicked
around. He has a mind ofhis own. He can make up his
mind on what he wants to do, and his individuality is what gives me
joy. And I'm really happy aboutthat. That's wonderful. That was a
great question and we are out oftime. Everybody. I'd like to thank
(23:07):
my co host Obina Remi Alutimi andPaul okay Go for joining me and of
course I am Toya Fang. Youcan find our podcast at Special Moms Africa,
at Simone's Oasis, anyway you findyour podcast, and of course,
(23:29):
like us, share, subscribe untilthe next time.
Welcome, Welcome the avenue. Myname is to welcome to Special Moms Africa,
Real Talk on special needs parenting,the bonus episode, the Daddy Edition.
And this is the final part.So listen, take your notes and
enjoy. We've had some really goodnuggets. You know, you have to
(00:36):
be deliberate about it to approach withbalance. Sons judge their fathers till they
understand them. Like some great nuggets, but they're still madness going on out
there right, even I hear wherethings, you know, so you're still
getting the thing. It's like,Okay, is your wife maybe should get
(00:57):
another wife? You know that someonedid occur on you. They don't want
that child in church. And youmay think this is only limited to a
certain socio economic class. It isn'tcut across. I mean I can tell
you myself, it isn't. Howyou know, do you deal with that?
(01:19):
Yeah? What else is? Becausethey will tell you to go and
find another wife. That is yourwife. So let me let me start
by saying this. When you aremaking the vow, it's for better for
worse, and the worst may notnecessarily be about what happens to you.
What happens what happens to your offspring. And the truth is, this is
the bitter truth, you know,that is what loving somebody is about at
(01:41):
the end of the day. Soif if the adversity comes, and that's
why I tell people when when peopleare about to get married, I said,
I say to them, this phaseis great, right, this is
you know, when everything is flowery, it's great. You know, you're
you're in a good place, you'redating and all that. You want to
get married, you know, butwhen you cross that rule become Once you
cross that line married, now youface the reality of life. That is
(02:02):
when the relationship starts. That's when. And part of it is, let's
how people look your your your yourchallenges may not start immediately, but it
could start when you have a kid. You have a kid that you have
problems. That is what it's about. So in the first place, if
anybody leaves, you know, likelike the example poor gave, like somebody
you know, they had a childas autistic, and then there was never
(02:23):
love in the first place. I'msorry, but that's what it is.
And I also understand that people grow, you know, and so things happen
as you developed. By at theend of the day. It's about facing
challenges, it's about dealing with problems. That is what a relationship is about
at the end of the day.You know. So if you up and
leave this is my first child,you know, how do you recover from
(02:44):
that? But then again, youremember why you you're together in the union.
You understand that at the end ofthe day, it's about having each
other's backs. It's about solving thisproblem. You know. So it's very
easy to blame that special child forthe breakup of a marriage, breakup a
relationship, Yeah, when it's actuallythe relationship had a problem and it's just
(03:05):
that's that's highlighted. Yeah, that'snot opened up the real taking off the
village you like. Yeah, Soyou know, for men, you've got
to deal with keeping the family together. You've got to deal with prejudice outside,
you've got to deal with the cultureof what it is to be a
man. And you're going through this. I mean, I know it was
difficult for my husband. How dowe help men find their voice? How
(03:31):
do we say it's safe, it'sokay to talk. What can be done?
I'm just gonna throw it out thereto you questions. Well, I
think I'm already doing my own part. You know. The thing is.
The thing is there are many peoplemy age who are hiding true correct as
(03:53):
in their hiding. And I thinkit must have been like thirty seven when
I realized called to my house,come and beats me. I was like,
that was that was? Look,I am who I am, I
do what I do, I doit, well, this is how I
understand. I'm going to try andfind out what exactly it is. Then
(04:15):
it was interesting enough a friend ofmine who's a psychiatrist, We've been friends
for about seven ten years now.I didn't realize what studying me. I
just knew that whenever we talked,whenever i'd say something, whenever I expressed
myself, he didn't have that.I'm sorry, if you're newotypical, there's
(04:35):
usually first there's a reaction when I'mnot speaking as myself. I see that
thing, I see that thing flash. But he wouldn't have it. He
was the one who I just camefor a look. I started reading about
autism to this, do you whatdo you think? Then said my professional
opinion, it's as burgers. Youknow that if people are not close to
(04:59):
you, they would think that youare there the thing where they think,
you know, I started sharing thiswith people because I didn't care. I
didn't care what the impressions were,like, specially news people. At the
last GT Autism conference. One ofmy friends who I had been telling I
(05:21):
think you need to. I thinkyou need to. It was like what
was as you did have panic attack? As like was like he was it
like a huge collection of things.I saw him at the conference with his
wife. This is somebody that doesnot come down. Yes, no,
yes, you were you were rememberyeah, I remember, Yeah. I
(05:42):
saw him and it was in somewhatdifficult to pull out of the house,
and he was there. He wasthere, and I think the conversations that
were held that they opened, itopened a lot for him. Because I
tried to catch up with him tosay, how are you doing, it's
been a while. He he didn'twant to have a conversation. It was
(06:08):
like there was a lot that wassuddenly on. So his wife kind of
give me a signal that, youknow what, maybe later he's not really
in a good place. I said, Okay, I said, sure,
I understand, I understand. Thething is that nobody's going to beat you.
No, no, nobody's going tobeat you, you know, regardless.
(06:28):
The thing is that the more peoplelook for help, the more people
who identify these things and step out, regardless of I'd give you the gist
of my family reactions, but thatwas just no, no, no,
no. I was like, areyou going to put a stain on the
I mean, what would people lookat? I don't care, as said,
I don't care. I've been managingthis stuff myself. I'd been wearing
(06:50):
masks around you guys for almost fourdecades because I don't want to. I
see mommy is tired. I don'twant me to be exhausted. I see
daddy's on edge. I don't wantto be the one to tip him over,
you know. I as in likeit was weird. Who's like being
(07:11):
a parents? So like you?You know, your answer is that you
just have to speak up. Youhave to find you just don't speak up.
And the thing is that the morepeople that come out, the more
people will feel comfortable and the medicalfield in Nigeria community, the community will
actually recognize it for what it actuallyis. It's not oh my god,
(07:32):
it's a recent phenomenon. Look,the man who's ask if you don't see
anybody if you don't see anybody thatis speaking up right as a dad,
you have this child who is different, and you don't have anyone around you
with a similar case. So youyou know, what do you do?
(07:57):
So? You know, so mydad is slate, write my guy,
my dad, you know. Andthere's something that he's tell me. He's
telled me, well, Paul,I'm a full He told me, the
less you say, the less youhave to account for, right and nothing.
He was drummed in my head like, the less you say, the
less you have to account for.And it's true because I apply that principle
(08:20):
in business today, Like when I'mdoing something, I know when to keep
things to my chest depending on theimpact that will that will get. Sometimes
you don't share business business ideas untilit's you know, you know. Sometimes
you share, sometimes you don't,So you have to sort of manage how
you share based on the outcomes thatyou expect from that thing. If I
(08:45):
bring it here, and the wayI sort of came into this thing is
that I've always been very specific aroundthe things that I want to do,
around how I want my family tobe, around who I want to be.
So if going back to what you'resaying with with my wife, marriage
is very hard, man. Imean we know this, and actually that's
(09:07):
how you recognize the good ones becauseit's so hard that the good ones sort
of stick out. You can tellwhen when people are right. Um,
when I got married, my wifeand I have such good friends. We
fight every day, Like I don'tremember a day where we don't fight.
But in fact, we fought thismorning three times on our way here.
(09:28):
Good time, and I still haven'tforgiven her yet. But we discussed my
family and I made it clear tomy family what my family was. You
know, there are times when myparents I made it cut it and like,
this is my family. My wifeand I and these kids are my
family. They are the first thing. Your opinion is not really required,
(09:48):
Like I think my family is veryclear on that, Like we appreciate it.
You know, if you give anopinion, we're not going to change
you away. But ultimately your opinionis not required, right, So I'll
like to start with that. Then, in terms of that decision to make
people aware, for me was youknow, if you're fortunate and you're driving
(10:09):
awareness without asking for something, peopleare more likely to listen. Have you
noticed that so if and that's whatscares men. If you say, oh,
my kid has autism and I'm doingawareness and they say that, oh,
you're a well to do guy.You know, you have some means,
and you're not really asking them foranything. You're not asking them for
(10:31):
money or anything, they're more likelyto listen, sit down and listen.
Right. And because because guys don'tlike that pity, you know, I
hate it personally, that whole prettyparty that because oh oh yes, you
know. No, no, Sothat's for me, right, I'm not
judging people who do because pity.I mean, compassion is very important and
everything that we do we must finda way to be compassionate. Right.
(10:54):
But I found that sharing people withoutsaying, hey, look, I want
something from you was the key becausethe minute he's just saying, oh,
come and you know, help uswith money, come and help us with
this. I look, this isyour problem because I have problems on my
own. So for me, awarenesswas trying to put the information out there
(11:16):
right in a neutral manner, withoutyou know, putting any sort of contingencies
or responsibilities on the person who Iwas sharing with, so they were able
to receive the information very very simply, I'll tell you something. I had
a colleague who was a friend forfourteen years. We had worked in the
(11:37):
same company for a long time andwe worked at was right next to mine.
And he has two kids on thespectrum, in fact, one on
the spectrum, one who is abit more. And they never told me,
like, and this is after I'vebeen talking about autism for like five,
six, seven years. He neverever told me. And one day
(11:58):
I found out and I'm like,yo, were brothers, right? This
is this doesn't make any sense.But people are different, right for him,
he is really the kind of guythat doesn't want anyone to pity him
at all. He doesn't want peopleto say, oh, Paul you or
he's very like like like that.But then on the other side, I
(12:20):
have friends who called me and say, Paul, thank you so much.
Like I don't really think I domuch. I just repost you know you're
on my Instagram. You see thatI am very heavy on autism information and
I have to become a Paul thankyou so much. You're really you know,
your page is where I learned mostof the stuff that I've learned about
about about autism and and and soon. And so forth. So I
(12:41):
I and look at the cause thatI really appreciate. Now. I have
friends who called me and say,hey, Paul, I have this friend
who has a son or doctor autistic. Can you can you talk of them?
And I always say, look,I can. I can help them
with the some moral but you haveto talk to my wife. I would
say, you have to talk tome, right, because she is the
one who is big in this thing. So I guess the point I'm making
(13:05):
is that I'm a firm believing balanceand in outcomes, I don't stick to
one position. I like to bea little bit balanced in the way I
look at this. Some If yousend me to Cano right now and put
me on this panel in Cano,right, I have to factor in the
fact that I am in Cano andthings sort of work differently than they do
here. Right. The same thingif you send me to Omaya, for
(13:26):
example, I'm not gonna saying,oh, you know your boys are authentiic
and this, So you also haveto read the room right, understand where
you are, you know, andthen find you know. In the marketing
we say aligned with the constrmer pathway. You know how we said that in
marketing, right, so what's thebest way to make this thing palatable?
For this you puts on? Yeah, I mean, but final thing,
(13:50):
you must do it. I thinkyou must do it because there are people
who need it. We don't evenknow. This is a deep problem.
There are many people we also sayhim in Nigeria, many like many,
But now that I know what itis, I recognize it now with that
many. So we must continue tohave these conversations. It's like the nuggets
(14:11):
that are coming out here today.I'm loving them. So we want to
put this out to the audience hereand see if you guys have any questions.
Do anybody have any questions? Hi, I'm gonna say it's a question.
First first is thank you, Thankyou, mister Paul. Everything you
(14:33):
said medicine to me. I'm todayyears old realizing what my dad was doing.
I'm not I'm thirty eight. Ididn't get my ADG diagnosis until last
year. Wow. And I guessmy dad always knew that I was different.
And everything you said of how youthe dad is one watching and seeing
(14:56):
what to do. He was onewho knew I would space out and just
go and I was it would comeme hairbrained because I would forget your name.
He said, your name was Paul. If you asked me again,
I promise you, I honestly donot remember my husband's struggle with I told
you. I'm like, I promiseyou, this isn't deliberate. I do
(15:16):
not remember, you know. Andso he was the one who was seeing
what I was lacking. And he'sfor me when he said, well how
do they cope? Was he foundout I love books, and so he
would it would have conversations about books, and he knew how I was.
My daughter was very hard. Hejust he was the one who picked us
those signs of I just know she'sdifferent. And so I thought my dad
(15:39):
was her favorite me. I didn'tknow he had seen, you know,
he had saw and he on thestood. So what I'm gonna say is,
how do we men, how dowe communicate then to your wives so
that you know what I'm just seeingthis differently. My husband now when I
told him that I've seen this now, so he's like my daughter now,
she I don't think she's on thespectrum. But what happens is when she's
(16:00):
upset, she just she just goesand hits a head on the wall.
That's only that's only stom like ascored. So she would just tell you,
you know, I don't like youthat she would go, and he's
a head on the wall, soshe does. So I'm like, so,
how do men tell like I'm learningto that. It's like they don't
see it, they're just perceiving itdifferently. So how do you compute to
(16:23):
get what? We're on the sameteam. I didn't see that fixing parts.
I promise you it never a calldthat' yes, yet I'm not chewing
you're fixing it makes sense now?Yet? So how do you men tell
there? Why that guess what?We're on the same team. I see
what you're saying, and I'm fixingit the way I can. That's That's
(16:45):
a very good questions. It's oneof those things that you call pregnant questions.
Where where I come from? Man? Well answer, what's your name?
Sorry? But is so nice tomeet you? And I love your
story because it remind me of mydad. My Popsy used to this thing
where he knew that I needed toread more because I wouldn't play so my
books. He would tell me goand read as I chapter the forty and
come, let's let's talk about it, or he would tell me he knows.
(17:07):
So my dad knew that the wayto get to me was through books.
I read so many books, youknow. When I was young,
it was ridiculous, you know,But as I grew up, I understood
that that was his way of bondingwith me, you know, and controlling
my temper, you know. Andmy mom would be like, So when
I was eight or nine, hegave me this warm piece, he said,
you know Tostoy, And I mean, my my neighbor family, you
(17:30):
know, knows about my thing withbooks. So IM's friendly. Like what
eight year old nine year old readsTostoy? Because it's very tedious, right
to read, even for an adult, it's quite tedious. But I took
to it like I would read it. What was the next one? So,
I mean, obviously he had agreat dad who, in his own
(17:51):
way try to It's difficult. It'squite difficult to communicate that to your partner.
My wife and I have constant disagreementsabout how to do things. That's
the truth. Like, you know, I'm not gonna come here and lie
on the podcast. You know,we have constant disagreements on how to do
things. Because again I'm more focusedon the thing and how it's you know,
(18:15):
works from mere to that. She'smore interested in the I think the
people Sometimes. I think what I'venow understood is that sometimes what she's doing
is more important. Sometimes what I'mdoing is more important, And it's finding
that balance. But one way thatI fixed it was that I realized that
(18:37):
whatever she's doing requires things. Areyou following me If my wife says,
for example, she's doing something whereshe's going to be vocational for kids with
autism, like focusing on vocation becausemy son, that's what we did with
my son. We just went toart music and she says, oh,
I think this should be a goodidea. My thought would be that what
are the things in that idea thatneeds to be done? So when I'm
(19:02):
talking to her, I'm talking toher about and I did that she already
had that. I'm just trying tohelp. If not, we would always
disagree on something. So like myson needs to swim. Swimming is a
big part of who he is,right And for a long time we didn't
have a pool, you know,and I was like pool, pool,
pool, pool, pool, poolpool. You guys in the estates fix
(19:22):
our pool, so so he can'tswim, and I didn't. I didn't
go on instead of me just starttaking him to their pools or around us.
I could have just taken him tothe pool to swim. I didn't.
And then one day when the houseand started that I was reading and
I didn't hear a noise. No, this is that when he wakes up,
it makes all the noises. Thehouse was quiet. I was like,
where is he? I never likeI thought he was with you,
(19:45):
He's not with me. And thenhe was missing for like six hours or
so. We were looking for him. He had left our house, walked
to the Defense climb Defense. Welived near the ocean there. I don't
know what Our beach is called theLego She we live. We live right
on a Lego She beach. Hejumped the fence and jumped into the ocean
and was swimming right just by thegrace of God, there was a guy.
(20:07):
It's early in the morning, likeseven am. There was a guy
who was walking his horse and allhis horse guys that rent horses on the
beach. And he saw the boyin the in the ocean and went in
and got him out. And thatday he would have died, and I
mean, it's ocean would never haveseen him again. When when they found
him, when he came back tothe house, and I went to my
(20:30):
room because while everybody else was saying, oh his back, he was crying,
I was like in my head,I was like, why is it
that this boy left the house,climbed the fence and went to this thing,
and is this going to stop becausehe do it again because the things
that he needs to swim. Mywife was like, oh, no,
(20:52):
she was, she was somewhere else. Oh, we need to be more
careful with the doors, and youknow, and you know, she was
somewhere else, which was not thewrong place to be. But for me,
my head was like, if wedon't find a pool very very very
soon, this boy will continue tojump his fence until one day he dies
in that ocean. And so whatI did was I poured myself into making
(21:15):
the people whose job it was tomake that pool a living hell. I
was on their necks. Femi ismy neighbor, right, I was on
their neck, on their neck literallyonto that pool was ready. And when
the pool was ready, the behaviorstopped, right. But so my wife
and I were working towards the samething, but we were doing it differently.
(21:36):
But I've also learned from your question. I think I will try better.
I think I would even have todo better to try and expect my
wife what I'm thinking, and I'mthinking maybe it will help us. That
was amazing. We have one morequestion. Good afternoon. My name is
Femmi. I should I have aquick question. I want to ask openly,
but I have a second question,which I'll ask privately to deadman in
(21:56):
the middle, because it's very importanturn to me personally, if you don't
mind. The question is I likechildren a lot, and I think they
have the potential to bring a lotof joy. You've spoken about your journeys
and we can imagine just how challengingit is. But I suspect that you
may have had some moments each ofyou, regardless of the space where your
(22:18):
child is, where you really gotsome joy. And I would love if
you would share something with us,because I would like to get something.
Yeah that well, you know,lift my spirits of it. I'm going
to throw. Yeah, So Imean joy derived from my kids, right,
Yeah, So I mean the factthat he's able to contribute, you
know, the house is able tocompete with his fellow brothers. If that
(22:41):
guy is able to you know,have you know, have his own thing,
like I want this, I don'twant that. That just gives me
joint happiness because he's a boy ofhis own. He's not he's not kicked
around. He has a mind ofhis own. He can make up his
mind on what he wants to do, and his individuality is what gives me
joy. And I'm really happy aboutthat. That's wonderful. That was a
great question and we are out oftime. Everybody. I'd like to thank
(23:07):
my co host Obina Remi Alutimi andPaul okay Go for joining me and of
course I am Toya Fang. Youcan find our podcast at Special Moms Africa,
at Simone's Oasis, anyway you findyour podcast, and of course,
(23:29):
like us, share, subscribe untilthe next time.
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