October 19, 2025 • 50 mins
S1 E16: In this celebratory season finale of Spiritual Pyro, Sarah and Corinne reflect on their journey of writing and the upcoming release of their book, the skies are full of us. They discuss the importance of celebrating milestones, the concept of the "death of the author", and the emotional weight of their creative process. They explore how their personal stories intertwine and the power of words to inspire change. As they toast to their achievements, they invite listeners to find their own stories within the pages of their work.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com.
Pick up your copy of the skies are full of us at bookshop.org or your favorite bookstore.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com.
Pick up your copy of the skies are full of us at bookshop.org or your favorite bookstore.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:02):
For all the match strikers. This is Spiritual
Pyro. We should just jump in because, like, we
(00:23):
miss all the gold.
>> Corinne (00:25):
We got it. We got.
>> Sarah (00:26):
It's all pockets of gold. Oh, you got your
sparkly. You got your bubbly.
>> Corinne (00:30):
Pockets full of gold. Yeah, pockets.
>> Sarah (00:33):
Okay, what do you have?
>> Corinne (00:36):
Well, today, in my fancy glass, it's. It's. It's
still the. Still the work day here for me. I'm
taking a break to, to record. So, today I've got
ginger beer with a little splash of watermelon
mint.
>> Sarah (00:53):
Oh, that's so fancy. You are so good at being
fancy with your drinks.
>> Corinne (00:57):
I'm not, but let me tell you, the exciting thing
is that my ice cube is a skeleton skull.
>> Sarah (01:04):
Stop it.
>> Corinne (01:05):
Yes. It's my Halloween. it's my Halloween vibe. I
know.
>> Sarah (01:08):
I want one. I want one. I just have a champagne
flute full of Lacroix.
>> Corinne (01:14):
You know what? It's bubbly.
>> Sarah (01:15):
We just need something bubbly because we're
toasting two special things today on this episode.
Yes.
>> Corinne (01:20):
Okay, what are we testing?
>> Sarah (01:21):
Okay, so season finale of, Spiritual Pyro.
>> Corinne (01:25):
We did it. We did it.
>> Sarah (01:27):
You came on the journey with us.
>> Corinne (01:29):
We talked for an entire season of podcast
episodes.
>> Sarah (01:32):
You guys listened to us talk for so many hours. So
many hours of us talking.
>> Corinne (01:37):
We had so many things to say.
>> Sarah (01:39):
We did. We had lots of ideas and correct opinions.
>> Corinne (01:44):
Thanks for being in our opinion.
>> Sarah (01:46):
In our opinion.
>> Corinne (01:49):
And we are also toasting the fact that in just a
few short days, next week on Tuesday on October
21st, baby, the skies are full of us takes flight.
>> Sarah (02:06):
Oh, my goodness. Finally. Oh, finally. She's
coming to life. She will be in your hands.
Finally.
>> Corinne (02:17):
Finally. Release day, launch day, pub day, all of
the above.
>> Sarah (02:24):
We.
>> Corinne (02:25):
We are. We're here. We're here. We made it.
>> Sarah (02:29):
There were many, many days we thought we'd never
see this day coming. And really, it's as we. We
joke, but truly, it's been a literary event four
to seven years in the making, really.
>> Corinne (02:46):
And honestly, like, I mean, you know, we're tired,
right? Like, we're tired. Like, this has been a
long, long journey, and there is so much
excitement that I feel like is just now starting
to hit. Like, it's just now starting to sink in
(03:07):
that we actually get to celebrate next week. We
actually get to, like, live in this moment of
finally it all coming to fruition. All of these.
All of these years coming to fruition. I don't
know. I think I've been, like, kind of a little
bit, you know, Hesitant to like, allow myself to
(03:29):
like really feel it and celebrate it. So here we
are. Final episode Spiritual Pyro Season 1 Raising
Our Glass. Here we go. Cheers baby. Woo. You can't
see us, but we're cheersing through our zoom
cameras on our laptops.
>> Sarah (03:49):
It's one of our traditions, is to drink something
bubbly. Can be a different thing each time.
Something bubbly and a toast to honor. Whenever
there's a milestone, some kind of accomplishment,
some kind of threshold crossed, we've got to take
a minute and honestly it's a little treat. It's.
It's a moment marked. It's been such a long hard
(04:09):
journey and this has been one of the things we've
done to make it a little sweeter.
>> Corinne (04:16):
Yep. Yep. And it's we, it's the way that we
practice little bits of celebration. M. We've had
to like claw for it little the little pieces along
the way. So we have a very well oiled practice now
of these little tiny celebrations along the way.
We no longer wait only for the big ones. M. We do
the little ones slowly by slowly. That's how we
(04:39):
get to the big things.
>> Sarah (04:41):
It's another form of, of with you really. It's
become another practice of with you. It's another
ritual that's sort of ingrained itself in, in the
process of. We have been through, I guess the
creative process, the writing process, this
journey. But really now it's become another thread
of our friendship, another part of how we do life
(05:01):
with each other.
>> Corinne (05:02):
Yes.
>> Sarah (05:03):
Find a way to mark the moment. Make it, make it
kind of sparkly and bubbly.
>> Corinne (05:07):
Yeah. Doesn't matter what's in your glass. Doesn't
matter what time of day it is. Doesn't matter how
big the moment is or how small it is. Sometimes
the smaller the moment, the more holy and sacred
the moment. Don't you think?
Like sometimes those moments that nobody else
knows about that are not, you know, they're never
gonna grace your social media feed. They're never
(05:29):
gonna be an announcement, it's never gonna be
public. Sometimes those little tiny things along
the way are the most sacred ones.
>> Sarah (05:38):
Yeah, that's really true. I was thinking the other
day I was as I was reading through the audiobook.
Well, that's another thing we can toast actually
another thing we did today.
>> Corinne (05:49):
Yes.
>> Sarah (05:50):
True is we finished the last chapter, reading the
last chapter of our audiobook which I don't know
if we want to give away any spoilers. Do we want a
little spoiler?
>> Corinne (06:03):
Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Because I can't, because I
already gave away a spoiler on my stories, so we
may as well.
>> Sarah (06:10):
Of course you did. So the last chapter of Skies is
a chapter that we write together, and so it's in
our shared collective voice. And what was really
special and fun about that is that we got to read
the chapter together, and so that's what we got to
do today. Earlier in the day, we recorded that
(06:32):
chapter together for the audiobook, which we're so
excited about when that comes out for you to be
able to listen to it. We were really grateful and
so happy that we got to record that ourselves. So
we got to tell our stories in our own voice. And
that was something that was really important to
us, and we're just so, so thrilled with the way
that that's come out, and can't wait for that.
(06:54):
And, yeah, so that was another big thing. See, so
many things that we've been told.
>> Corinne (06:57):
We've been so busy. We've been busy. We've gotten
so much done. I'm so proud of us.
>> Sarah (07:03):
Yeah, I'm so proud of us.
>> Corinne (07:05):
Okay. But you know what. What was so great about
reading that last chapter is that, you know, one
of the things that I love so much about Skies is
how we volley back and forth with our chapters.
You know, we just take turns and our different
voices telling our different stories. But I love
that in that last chapter, we get to blend our
voices and we get to actually go back and forth
(07:27):
within the same story. And that just feels really
beautiful and really true. And I can't wait for
the reader to read along with it, but I really
can't wait for the audio listeners to get to hear
us read those. So I don't know. I mean, I'm the
type of person where, you know, for certain books,
(07:49):
I will both buy the book and read it and listen to
the audio, especially if it's a certain author
with a certain voice or a certain cadence that I
want to hear. And so I think that our book and the
way that we read it is really special and unique.
So I actually kind of hope that, that there are
people who get to listen to it as well as read it,
(08:10):
because I think that's going to be a unique
experience all its own. Yeah.
>> Sarah (08:14):
Okay, so this was like a good segue into the
conversation we were having earlier. Yeah. And you
were introducing this idea of the death of the
author. So. Yeah, talk about that because. Because
what my mind went to. And we'll jump back into
that, because I think we should break that down
and talk about that. But. But what my mind went to
is, like, okay, is it a different. Like, does it
(08:35):
make a difference when you're reading the book
versus having it read to you in the author's
voice? So, okay, so I'm gonna hold that question.
Let's break down what that. Death of the author.
What does that mean? What are we talking about?
And then let's revisit that. That question.
Because I'm. I'm like, does it. Because I feel
(08:56):
like I don't know. Okay. All right, so let's jump
into what death of the author means.
>> Corinne (09:00):
Okay, so. So I had heard this concept recently,
and it has just really stuck with me because I
find that as a consumer of other people's work, it
is very true for me. And so now as an author
myself, I'm looking at it from that. From. From
(09:21):
the opposite angle. But. Okay, so I, I. So Sarah.
I pulled a Sarah and I practiced a little, five
wing, and did a little research to figure out
where this came from, because I think I heard Liz
Gilbert talking about it, but it didn't come from
her. She was referencing something else. And so
what I found is actually, It's an, essay that was
(09:44):
originally published back in the 60s in 1967, by
an author, by the name of Roland Bart, I believe
is. How you say the last name. But the death of
the author, the concept is basically meaning that
once you create something and you share it with
(10:04):
the world, the author's original intention no
longer matters as much as the way that the reader
or the listener or the receiver. Receiver.
Interprets it. So an author has all of their
backstory and their intention and all of the
personal experience that goes into creating
(10:26):
whatever it is that they're making, whether it's a
song or a movie or a book or a poem or anything
else. Anything, that they're sharing with the
world. But when we consume that artwork, we come
with our own experiences, our own lives, our own
perspectives, and we interpret that work. So once
(10:47):
the consumer interprets the artwork, basically the
author is dead to that. To that consumer. Right.
So I think about it, especially right now, you
know, when, you know, Taylor's got her new album
out and everybody is having conversations about
what does the song mean and what is it about and
who is it about and what's the backstory And. And
(11:09):
there's so many of the songs where I'm like, I
don't even care. Because when I listen to a song,
I'm thinking about what it means to me. I'm
thinking about my own life or my own friends or my
own experiences and how it, how I'm making meaning
of those lyrics for myself. And so that is death
of the author. Sure. She's writing brilliant pop
(11:33):
songs, you know, for the, you know, from her own
life, from her own experiences. And there's all of
those Easter eggs and all of those, true things
and all of her intentions. But really, as I'm
listening to her music, I'm thinking about my own
stories. So when we think about skies and we think
about the death of the author, you and I, we have
(11:55):
written our guts into this book, right? We have,
totally.
I mean like we have. We've done the Ernest
Hemingway. We've bled onto the page. Right. And
yet we also say that we find ourselves in between
the pages of each other's stories. So the whole
intention is that we're offering these stories,
(12:17):
but we're actually inviting the reader around the
bonfire so that they can find themselves in their
own stories and in these pages. So we're actually
hoping for the death of the author, right. We're
actually hoping that someone doesn't have to have
these crazy dramatic stories to be able to relate.
We're actually hoping that there's these universal
(12:39):
truths that somebody else is going to be able to
resonate with and connect, to in our writing and
in our storytelling. That's going to make this
connection thing, which is why we do this. It's
going to make that true and bigger and more
beautiful. Right?
>> Sarah (12:58):
Yeah. And I. So you were mentioning this to me
when we were debriefing the Taylor album because I
was feeling a little hung up on some of the drama
behind some of the songs and feeling a little bit
like, oh my gosh, like it was getting in the way
for me of really being able to sit with some of
the songs and really get into them. I was, I was a
(13:20):
little bit distracted by some of the. The drama
that was going on, the bigger outside stuff. And
when you introduced that idea to me, it was just
like a light bulb went off and I don't know, I
hadn't heard it before and I, I get the concept of
it, but I hadn't ever really applied it that
specifically, I guess. And it really shifted the
way I was able to even just like isolate the, the
(13:41):
lyrics and the songs from the person really, and
listen to it and apply it in a totally different
way to my life. So I feel like it allowed me, it
allowed me to listen to it without getting in my
own way. Without. Without, you know, and. And,
yes, make it my own and make it. Meaning make it.
(14:02):
And, you know, all that. But really, it was like,
in some way, it almost made. It made the music
feel more pure. Like, it just shifted something in
the way that I was able to, like, the lens I was
able to use to listen to it. I don't know. And so
when I think about that with. With the way I would
maybe read a book or I would listen to other music
or I'd watch a movie or something, it. I just.
(14:26):
That, to me, feels really exciting because that
feels like. Yeah, there's one element where I
almost feel like it makes me want to do everything
twice. Like, I want to read a book and experience
it through the lens of the author, because it's
their story they're trying to tell.
>> Corinne (14:43):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:43):
And then I want to read it and experience it in
this other pure way that maybe is. Just lets me
experience it through my own lens of my life. And,
I mean, who has time to do that? I don't have time
to do that, but I just think it's such a cool
concept. And it really just was like a fresh way
to think about art and to think about, how I
(15:04):
approach it, which, as. As an artist, that was
just. It was really inspiring to me. It was really
intriguing to me. It was very interesting.
>> Corinne (15:43):
Okay. And so you want to know, this makes me
think, is that there's also this bigger
conversation of whether or not we can separate the
art from the artists. Right. And that actually is
a much deeper conversation about ethics and about,
you know, when there is an artist who is either,
morally or ethically or politically problematic
(16:04):
and whether or not we can separate their art from
who they are as an artist, I think this is a. This
is kind of like a different. A, different facet of
that same conversation where, you know, we can
experience someone's art through our own lens. And
we can also acknowledge that where someone's art
(16:27):
where. Where art comes from and the experiences
and the person that art comes from also still
matters. Right. So, like, you know, whether we're
having a conversation about somebody like a Woody
Allen or, you know, Michael Jackson or, you know,
any of those, like, big iconic, iconic figures
that have, you know, where we've then had to
(16:49):
wrestle with who they are as a person and what has
come to light in more recent years, like, this is
a much bigger conversation. So I think this idea
of death of the author is kind of on the other
side of that. Which, Yeah, I just, I think it's a.
I think it's a bigger, deeper conversation and one
that can, invite us in on a more expansive, more
(17:14):
beautiful level and then also one that challenges
us to think deeper at the same time. So I think
it's a. Both and, and I really like that.
>> Sarah (17:23):
Like all things are really.
>> Corinne (17:24):
I guess that's true.
>> Sarah (17:26):
This really great invitation for the reader to
find their story within the pages of our story.
And so that really, like when we think about Skies
coming into this new, this new like, stage of her
life, like she's, she's been, we've been living
(17:46):
with her, we know her so well. She's about to kind
of enter this, new phase of life where she's going
to become this, this entity in other people's
lives and they're going to get to know her. You're
going to get to know her and she'll become
something to you. She'll become something
meaningful and in a whole new way to you. And that
(18:09):
is so exciting and incredible to think about. But
it's, it's sort of makes me feel like, I guess as,
as the author, as co author, it's like, what do I,
what are my hopes and wishes and like what do I
want? And it's, it really does come down to that.
Like, oh my gosh, like, I want you to find your
story within our story, within those pages, within
(18:32):
her story. I can't wait to hear. What are the,
what are the parts that are going to stand out?
Like, what are the lines that you're going to
circle and highlight? And like, what are the, ah,
the moments that you're going to sit with and that
are going to hold you and that you're going to
text to your friend and yeah, it was just. Those
are the beautiful things now that I find myself
(18:54):
thinking about and imagining and really with bated
breath just sitting here going like, oh my gosh, I
can't wait. I really can't wait to, to hear about
that. Like, I'm like, please tell us. Like, please
tell us. We really want to know.
>> Corinne (19:12):
Please tell us. yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (19:13):
How about you, Karine? I mean, is it similar? Are
you having similar thoughts?
>> Corinne (19:17):
yeah. Like, oh, I just, you know, there are, There
are things in my life, decisions I have made,
risks I have taken, dreams I have acted upon
(19:39):
because of something I've read, because of
something I've heard, because of a movie I
watched, because of a scene. Scene that I saw,
because of, because of one line In a book, you
know, like, and I know the power of words, right?
Like, I just genuinely, in all of my earnest,
(20:03):
like, cheesiness, like, I just genuinely believe
in the power of our stories and our words.
>> Sarah (20:09):
And.
>> Corinne (20:12):
I want so much for those moments where someone's
own life comes into focus for themselves. I want
so much for those moments where that match strike,
where that spark ignites. I want so much for those
(20:34):
moments to exist in. In any sense. No. Whether
it's reading our book or anybody else's book, or
listening to a song or watching a film. Like, I
just am giddy thinking about, all of the ways that
we get to affect each other and, and shift each
(20:57):
other's lives. And I've been thinking so much
lately about how, you know, really, we just want
to make our younger selves proud and our older
selves proud. Right? And so I just think most of
the time we have those little things in the back
of our mind that have been waiting for us to just
come into focus. They've been waiting for us to
(21:19):
just take a chance, take a risk, take flight, you
know that. For that spark to light. And so I just,
I wonder, will it be something. Will it be a
phrase on a page in skies? Will it be something
that is completely unrelated but will connect
(21:44):
someday later on down the road to something that
we wrote or something that. A picture that we
painted or an experience that we talked about that
somebody's going to go find for themselves, Right?
Like we talked about how it might be a trail that
we talk about that somebody goes and walks for
themselves and they have their own experience. So
it might not even be something that actually we
(22:05):
write, but it might be something that somebody
then writes for themselves someday, right, with
their actual life.
>> Sarah (22:12):
So I don't know.
>> Corinne (22:13):
I just. I'm a sucker for it. Like, I just can't
help but believe that this is how our lives
happen. That this is. That part of it is. Part of
it is, you know, from our own insides. And then
part of it is. Is shaped by the people and the
circumstances around us and, and anybody who holds
(22:34):
our book. It just feels like an honor. It feels
like an honor to even be. For our work, to even be
in their life or in their, in their presence as
opposed to like the other way around. Right? Like,
like the artwork gets to be in their life is like,
exciting.
>> Sarah (22:55):
Yes. It's so.
>> Corinne (22:57):
It.
>> Sarah (22:57):
Yeah. Honor is such a good word for that because,
I mean, time is the greatest resource and there's
no one has enough of it. And Attention and energy.
And so to have. Have the extreme privilege of
someone wanting to spend their time and energy and
attention on our story, our book, that is
(23:19):
incredible. It's so. I mean it's, it's humbling.
and it's not taken lightly. And I think that the
mutual, the mutual gift of that is. Is the
intention and care we put into creating it and,
and writing it with. With that in mind as well.
>> Corinne (23:37):
That. Yeah.
>> Sarah (23:38):
So carefully made. And Yeah, I, I really. Gosh, I
mean it almost. It makes me kind of emotional even
still. Right. I think we're just on the heels of
it. It's sort of that like. Oh, it's just, it's
vulnerable, but it's also just the bigness of it
and the. The just really happiness of it. Like
(24:00):
this is. This has been a long time coming and I
think the beauty of. Of like it's never too late.
And I think that there are, there are women in my
life who bet on themselves and didn't give up on
themselves. And they, have inspired me to do the
same. And I have called upon them, you know,
(24:24):
looked upon them, called upon them, for courage
throughout, throughout this process even too. And,
and you know, and I count you among them, Karine.
And I think it's just incredible to be at this
point. And there were many times that we weren't
sure we would make it and we almost gave up many
(24:44):
times on this, on this project and had to really
question, is it worth it and how far are we going
to take it? And we had to make that choice to
continue to bet on ourselves and believe in the
work. And so, you know, it's a big enough deal
without all the extra drama, without all the extra
stuff that went into this specific book. To just
(25:05):
publish a book, to write a book and to put it out
in the world is a massive accomplishment. And I
look at what this book has been through already
and as you write in Skies, Hope with her bloodied
knees and. And that's Sky's with her bloodied
(25:26):
knees, but getting back up one more time and one
more time again. And here she is.
>> Corinne (25:34):
Mouth, full of dirt. Yeah, like that's us for Sam
(26:10):
M. I would love to talk about the backstory of
(26:31):
Skies and kind of how that all came to be. You
know, it. It's a. It's such a part of the bones of
this book and yet for us it's such a normal built
in part of her story. But I'm reminded of just how
special that was and how. And how it all came to
(26:54):
be. So I think it'd be fun to walk through that
and share it with our listeners. What do you
think?
>> Sarah (26:59):
I would love that. I would love that.
>> Corinne (27:01):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:03):
I love that story so much, and it feels so special
to me because it's sort of like this Easter egg.
It's sort of like the story within the story,
that.
>> Corinne (27:14):
It's lore.
>> Sarah (27:15):
It's lore. It's totally lore.
>> Corinne (27:18):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:18):
And, you know, we love. We love. We love. We love
a good lore story.
>> Corinne (27:21):
We love our lore.
>> Sarah (27:23):
Yeah, it's.
>> Corinne (27:24):
It's like.
>> Sarah (27:25):
I don't know, it's just kind of like. Oh, like.
Yeah, just the goodie. Like, I love it. okay, so I
feel like the lore starts with you.
>> Corinne (27:35):
Okay. I feel like. Yeah, but, like, the Lord,
like, where it starts was us together, so, like,
we can kind of paint that picture a little bit.
>> Sarah (27:47):
So. So do you want me to tell. Do you want to go
the opposite way of how we told it, Andre and
Claire? Like, do you want backstory it the other
way?
>> Corinne (27:59):
Well, I'm. I'm just. I mean, we could tell it
chronologically. I'm just saying. We. It was. You
and I. We were together, in 2018.
>> Sarah (28:10):
We were together in 2018. We were having lunch.
>> Corinne (28:13):
Yeah. And one of the things that I just think is
funny is that once when I was listening to that
episode, like, do you remember how ridiculously
difficult it was for us to get together during
those. During those days? Like, it was almost
impossible. Like, we ev. Like, every single time
(28:34):
there would be something that would come up.
Somebody, some kid would be sick or some, you
know, the car would have an issue or there would
be weather or, it. It was like so many things
would get in the way that it was like the. It was.
It felt so. So miraculous when we would get
together to hang out, that it just felt like all
(28:54):
the stars had aligned and that we would get to sit
down, like, face to face. It was like the most
exciting, special. Like, it was like, grab onto
each other and hang on for dear life, because who
knew, like, what was going.
>> Sarah (29:07):
To happen next when we possibly. And we lived
maybe. Maybe an hour from each other? It wasn't
like we lived that far from each other, but it was
nearly impossible. Almost to the point it was like
a comedy of errors. It was like, you got to be
kidding me. Like, yeah, let's set this date. But,
like, we both know it's probably not going to
happen. And. And lo and behold, like, the day
would hit or the night before it'd be like, you.
(29:28):
You've. You've got to be kidding me. Like, my kids
throwing out, like.
>> Corinne (29:31):
Yeah, no, literally, I remember I was, like, at
the Starbucks, and you were, like, five minutes
out, and you were like, I'm so sorry. I'm five
minutes away. And Mercy literally just threw up in
the car and it was like, oh, my gosh. It was like
that kind of thing. Like, it was. It wasn't even,
like, the night before. It was like, literally
five minutes before. Yeah. And you're, like, down
(29:52):
the street and Mercy is just thrown up all over in
the car.
>> Sarah (29:54):
Yeah, no, I vividly remember that.
>> Corinne (29:57):
It was so hard. So, anyway, so it was like a.
>> Sarah (30:02):
Deal that we finally got together. Nothing went
wrong. We were having lunch kind of midway. We
found a great little midway spot. lgo, Arcadia.
Those that know Arizona.
>> Corinne (30:14):
Yes.
>> Sarah (30:15):
Lgo.
>> Corinne (30:15):
Do you want to carry our book? Lgo, do you want to
put our book on the shelf?
>> Sarah (30:19):
Buy your delicious candles? That would be amazing.
Yeah, Shout out to candles. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, we
give a shout out to candles and skies. We do.
>> Corinne (30:29):
We do. I want to call the lgo buyer. I'm going to
call the lgo buyer. I'm going to see if maybe
they'll carry our book.
>> Sarah (30:35):
Making moves, Having brilliant marketing ideas on
the spot.
>> Corinne (30:38):
Yeah, this is how it happens mid podcast. we do
our own stunts here. Anyway, M. So we are sitting.
I feel like we need to go recreate this. you know,
the next time we're together, I feel like to go,
like, sit at the table.
>> Sarah (30:57):
We will. We should do an Instagram live of it.
We'll do it.
>> Corinne (31:00):
Yeah. Okay. but we're sitting at. We're sitting at
this table by the window at lgo, having a
fantastic little brunch lunch, whatever, and, you
know, just talking about all the things and
catching up on all the craziness with our families
and.
>> Sarah (31:16):
Okay. I think it's important, though, to say,
like, this was 2018. We were not, like, like,
thriving. We were not like, cute girls thriving.
Catching up on, things over brunch. Like, we were
like, crawl. Like, crawling like ghosts of
ourselves. Like little, you know, I mean, not,
(31:39):
not. Not doing well. I would say this was like,
post moving back from Thailand and Chicago and,
like, so had just, really moved back to the desert
and had. Life was upside down. We had no idea what
we were going to be doing with our life. So this
was definitely not like, our best version of
ourselves.
>> Corinne (31:56):
But.
>> Sarah (31:56):
But this was. This was like, if there was anyone
that we would rally to go sit across from who we
would feel safe enough to be seen, you know, to
really be seen in that state. Because this is not
like, get dressed up and go out and be, you know,
fabulous. This was like.
>> Corinne (32:15):
We were not. We were not Arcadia cute.
>> Sarah (32:17):
No, we were not Arcadia cute. No, no. We were just
like, I'm present. I'm physically here in this
seat with you.
>> Corinne (32:24):
In fact. In fact, I was. I definitely was asking
you about your concealer, and, And I was asking
you how to apply it, because your under eyes
looked good, and mine, I knew very well, did not.
Well, and you're like.
>> Sarah (32:38):
You knew that they, like, the truth was underneath
that concealer, they did not look good.
>> Corinne (32:44):
So you're like, what are you doing some magic?
>> Sarah (32:47):
What is your magic trick?
>> Corinne (32:48):
Yeah, but I. But I very specifically remember
asking you if you used a brush to apply your
concealer or if you used a fingertip. Like, for
some reason. That was the key question.
>> Sarah (32:59):
That was, like, what you needed to.
>> Corinne (33:00):
Know, like, the application of the concealer. What
is the methodology?
>> Sarah (33:06):
It was my finger. Gentle reader. It was my finger.
>> Corinne (33:08):
It was. Yeah, I do remember. That was the answer,
and I was amazed.
>> Sarah (33:12):
Fast forward. I now use a brush. I've grown up.
>> Corinne (33:16):
Fast forward. We now use the tarte.
>> Sarah (33:19):
The tarte.
>> Corinne (33:20):
clay.
>> Sarah (33:20):
Clay under eye. It's fabulous.
>> Corinne (33:23):
Color corrector.
>> Sarah (33:24):
Color corrector. Concealer.
>> Corinne (33:25):
Anyway, free.
>> Sarah (33:27):
Free commercials. We're just. We're just doling
them out left and right.
>> Corinne (33:30):
Yeah. We're not even sponsored. We should be.
>> Sarah (33:32):
We want to be.
>> Corinne (33:34):
feel free to call us. We have mature skin. Feel
free to call us.
>> Sarah (33:40):
Oh, my gosh. I swear, our drink, which everybody.
>> Corinne (33:43):
On TikTok says not to use it if you have mature
skin. But whatever.
>> Sarah (33:46):
What? We're.
>> Corinne (33:47):
We're rocking and rolling.
>> Sarah (33:48):
Oh, my gosh. Whatever. It keeps all my secrets, my
skin secrets.
>> Corinne (33:52):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (33:53):
For me. Okay.
>> Corinne (33:54):
We're not above it.
>> Sarah (33:55):
We are losing the plot.
>> Corinne (33:58):
That is the plot, honey. Okay. All right. So back
on track. We're sitting at the table, and we get
through the concealer conversation. We are
discussing our therapists. We are. You know, we're
discussing our families, like, barely hanging on
by a thread, and all of a sudden, all of the
things. and I start to have. I start to get an
(34:20):
idea. And we know me. I have lots of ideas.
>> Sarah (34:27):
Lots and lots of ideas.
>> Corinne (34:29):
I have so many notes in my notes app. Right. I
have lots of ideas. but this one came in, like, a
little wisp spur, and it was. It felt like some
big magic. It felt like an invitation. It felt
like something that was swirling. It felt like
(34:50):
maybe there was some shimmering in the air. I
don't know. It felt special and sacred and holy.
And the conversation was continuing, but I kind of
tuned out a little bit, admittedly, and I started
thinking to myself, I feel like there's something
for us here as we're talking about our grief and
(35:11):
we're talking about our healing journey, and we're
talking about, you know, our families just, you
know, still being in shambles. We're talking about
this really, really long road ahead of us and
trying to rebuild our lives, and still at that
point, having really no idea what that was going
to look like. And there were no answers at that
(35:32):
point, still. And yet there was this sense that
there was something for us. We were both writers.
That much was obvious. but there was something to
be made. And it felt like a holy moment. And it
was very clear that neither of us was well yet.
Right. Like, we were not through it. We were still
(35:52):
knee deep in everything. That was really, really
hard. So it did not feel like we were on the other
side and ready to make something, but it felt like
maybe there was a little candle lit that day for
the hope or the promise that maybe there could be
something for us to make together. So I had the
(36:13):
sense, which, again, is, I'm. I'm surprised at. I
had this sense that it wasn't something to share
right then. It was something to hold. And so I
made a promise to myself in that moment. In my
mind. I didn't let it out, which I just held it. I
bit my tongue, which I am so.
>> Sarah (36:36):
I'm so impressed with you.
>> Corinne (36:38):
Like, so proud of myself for doing that.
>> Sarah (36:40):
Yeah. Especially something that big, like, in the
moment, because, like, the, the adrenaline hit,
like, that instant, I would have been so excited.
Yes.
>> Corinne (36:49):
And it's you. So I would have been like, hey, hey,
hey, hey.
>> Sarah (36:51):
Guess.
>> Corinne (36:51):
what. Like, what about. What about this?
>> Sarah (36:52):
Okay.
>> Corinne (36:53):
But I didn't. And I just sat there and I thought,
okay, if this is a big magic invitation, if this
is something that is swirling, that's. If this is
something for us, then I'm gonna hold it. And if
she. You, Sarah, if Sarah ever. If she ever
suggests something like this, if she ever suggests
(37:14):
the two of us make something together about all of
this, from all of this, with all of this, then
I'll know that there's something to it. But it's.
This is too much. It's too heavy. It's too big,
it's too explosive. It feels too dangerous still
at this point for both of us to be putting all of
these experiences and these stories together to
(37:36):
make something from it. And it, And if it's not
coming from both of us in a real. In a really
beautiful way, in a beautiful space, I don't want
it. Right. So I just held it and set it aside.
Yeah, miraculously, miraculously enough, yeah, you
really did.
>> Sarah (37:55):
So, I mean, and not just for like a week. You held
it for. It was more than a year.
>> Corinne (38:02):
It was, honestly, I don't know how it was more.
>> Sarah (38:05):
It was a couple years. I feel like I'm not, I'm
not.
>> Corinne (38:07):
Good at that type of thing.
>> Sarah (38:08):
No. I'm so impressed with you.
>> Corinne (38:11):
I get too excited. I get too excited. I cannot
hold on to things like that.
>> Sarah (38:14):
I mean, the same thing.
>> Corinne (38:15):
It is, it is miraculous. Okay, so fast forward.
>> Sarah (38:18):
So you were holding that and I had no idea. And
meanwhile we're going, we're literally living
through what would become the book. We're walking
through our healing processes and so many miles
spent on those desert trails. And I. So this was
like, I gosh, I don't know when it would have been
anyway. 20, 20, something like that. And I was
(38:41):
driving down from the mountain. We had, a cabin up
north in northern Arizona. And I remember it was
this crazy snowstorm. And then the route that we
normally took to come down the mountain, we were
going to, I think it was Christmas time. So it's
going to the ranch where I've got some family down
in the valley. The route I normally take was
(39:02):
completely snowed out. Like, couldn't go that way.
So it's normally like a three hour drive. Ended up
becoming a six and a half hour drive because I had
to backtrack and go this other way through these
canyons. It was super windy and like really
gorgeous, but really scary and kind of perilous.
And at one point, as I'm kind of coming around
(39:24):
this corner of this really beautiful canyon, I had
this thought flash in my head. And so I love like
long drives. I don't get to do them that often,
but that's where some of my best ideas come is
like those long road trip drives. And so I'm
thinking through like, you know, it's been a
(39:44):
couple years since we've moved from Chicago and
what am I doing with all this, this work that I've
done and you know, post kind of the traumatic
experiences. And here I am a writer and I, and
I'VE been trying to write. I've been trying to
figure out how am I going to move forward, what am
I going to do career wise? What am I going to
make? And I haven't been able to make anything.
(40:07):
I'm stuck. And so I'm. So I'm driving down this.
This canyon, and all of a sudden, this. This
thought pops into my head and I'm like, oh, my
gosh. I pick up my phone and I start leaving the
voice memo, and I'm like, Karine. I was like, no
(40:27):
pressure, but it's like, I feel like we're
supposed to write a book together. And I start,
like, casting this vision about, like, okay, what
if. What if it's not just me writing about my
story and what happened to me and my family? What
if it's us writing our stories about what happened
to us and our families and, like, our community?
(40:48):
And what if it's not just about the parallel lines
of what happens in churches and nonprofits, but
it's like, this happens everywhere. And what if
the story is not just about the trauma? What if
it's also about the friendship that got us
through? And what if it's also about the healing?
And what if it's also this, like, much bigger
(41:08):
story than, like, it was just this kind of, like,
long rambling. It was not that eloquent, even.
That was not that eloquent.
>> Corinne (41:14):
It was.
>> Sarah (41:15):
It was rambling.
>> Corinne (41:15):
It was. It was. It was beautiful. It was so good.
It was.
>> Sarah (41:18):
But the reality that hit me was like, I am not
going to be able to make anything new until this
story that's living inside of me moves through me.
And it's so much more beautiful of a story when
it's not just my story and the fact, like, they're
just. The fact that you and I lived through it,
Karine, so simultaneously and so parallel. It was
(41:44):
just. It was just sitting there asking to be told.
It was just like, how could we not? How could we
not? When you say the big magic, you know, how
could we not step into that big magic? And, yeah,
it's terrifying. And it would ask for all our best
courage, and it would mean reliving my trauma
(42:04):
again and you reliving yours, and then vice versa.
Having to step into each other's and asking our
families to do that. And there were so many
moments of consent that needed to be practiced
before we even, really dared to really consider it
more seriously. So many steps along the way that
(42:24):
got us to this point today. But really, that was
the beginning of the Idea of the book started back
in 2018 and then was given some language out loud
in 2020 and we started writing in 2021, I believe.
>> Corinne (42:41):
The very beginning of it. Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:42):
Ah, back up at that cabin. Back at the cabin.
Cabin. Which I love that. So.
>> Corinne (42:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:49):
And now here she is, ready to take flight.
>> Corinne (43:07):
M. Well, and let's just have a moment for the fact
that your normal route coming down from the cabin,
(43:29):
for anybody here who is from Arizona, the normal
route coming down would be coming down off the
rim. Okay. But she didn't come down off the river
rim. Sarah had to backtrack and drive through Salt
River Canyon. So for anyone who has driven through
Salt River Canyon in a storm and is now listening
(43:52):
to Sarah talking about picking up her phone and
leaving me a voice text, this is just a disclaimer
to go ahead and take this time to say that we do
not condone texting or voice texting while
driving. Especially in Salt River Canyon, of all
places.
>> Sarah (44:09):
Yeah, maybe don't do that. Sorry, Mom.
>> Corinne (44:13):
When I found out you were doing that in Salt River
Canyon, I'm like, okay, I love the idea, but what
were you thinking? Gosh, what were you thinking?
>> Sarah (44:21):
I survived. I know, but long story short, I
survived.
>> Corinne (44:24):
Yeah, Long story short.
>> Sarah (44:25):
I mean, don't do that.
>> Corinne (44:27):
Magic strikes, you have to catch the tiger by the
tail. I know. but it really was, a kind of a wild
moment. especially, you know, there are those
moments for me where as much as I have set down in
my, you know, faith. Faith. Deconstruction. There
(44:48):
are those moments where I'm like, you know, I
don't know. I don't know. What I believe about
everything all the time anymore. But I know that
there are some things that are bigger than us and
I don't even bother to try to explain them or put
names on them or labels on them. I. I don't. But I
can still receive them. And that was one of those
(45:11):
moments where I was like, okay, all right.
>> Sarah (45:14):
Yeah.
>> Corinne (45:14):
Okay, here we are. Here we are. There's something
bigger than us here. And I'm paying attention. I'm
listening. That thing from a couple years ago,
here it is. Yep, it's time. And ever since then,
we have called this book, this work, our, dam
breaker. Because both of us, it was very clear
(45:36):
that this work had to be done in order for
anything else to be able to flow. It had to be
done. And even though there have been articles
written about both of the things that our family
has experienced, there's been action taken.
(45:56):
There's been lots of facts and lots of, you know,
attempts at justice. this has been a different
kind of work. This has been us metabolizing
something really, really difficult through our own
bodies, through our own lens and creating
something really, really beautiful from it. And
(46:20):
that's a whole different kind of justice work. one
that doesn't involve, you know, news outlets or
legal systems, hopefully, or, you know, any really
anybody else. It's. It's a metabolic. The
creativity is metabolic within our own bodies.
And, I think, you know, when we were talking to
(46:41):
Joy and Claire, you said it, Sarah, I thought. I
loved how you said it. You were just like, I
needed it out of my body. So, like, that somatic
release. I needed it out of my body. And there was
this, like, sense of, the rule of threes, the rule
of thirds for me, where this was. This was my
(47:04):
third thing. This was the third and final piece of
this, process for me. And this was the metabolic.
This was the creative. This was the beautiful
piece. And this one was just for me. This one was
just to somatically release. To metabolize it
through my body and like you said, to release it,
(47:27):
to get it out.
>> Sarah (47:28):
Yeah.
>> Corinne (47:28):
So it could be done and that dam breaking so that
everything else that we want to make that has
nothing to do with this story. Yep. Can be
created, can be made, can be written, can. Can
flow.
>> Sarah (47:44):
Yep.
>> Corinne (47:45):
And, oh, my goodness, can I not wait for that?
>> Sarah (47:49):
It's as. As you often say, who will you even be?
I'm like, what will we even make?
>> Corinne (47:55):
That's a shout out to Gina. Right. Right there.
That's what Gina said to me.
>> Sarah (47:59):
Right.
>> Corinne (47:59):
Who will you even be? Yep.
>> Sarah (48:04):
so, okay, so skies comes out October 21st. We're
so excited. If you have pre ordered, you may
notice that it ships out. You might get it anytime
we're starting to see that people are getting it.
If you get it, tag us on Social, send us a
picture, post about it.
>> Corinne (48:22):
Share.
>> Sarah (48:24):
Ah, we're so excited for you to be along on the
ride with us. Thank you for supporting us and
being so excited alongside us. we're just
incredibly honored and thrilled and. Yeah.
>> Corinne (48:38):
Yeah. So we're raising our glass to this first
season of Spiritual Pyro and to this first book,
the skies are Full of Us.
>> Sarah (48:51):
Thanks for being with us. We're with you.
>> Corinne (48:53):
We love you. cheers.
>> Sarah (48:56):
Cheers.
>> Rebeca (49:10):
You've been listening to Spiritual Pyro with Sarah
Carter and Corrine Shark on the 1C Story Network.
For more information, about this and all of our
stories, please visit just1c.com that's J u s t o
n e c dot com.
>> Corinne (49:55):
Look at us. We're so cute. We always think it's
going to be shorter.
>> Sarah (49:58):
I know. We're adorable for that.
>> Singer (49:59):
The 1C Story Network.
For the love of stories.
For all the match strikers. This is Spiritual
Pyro. We should just jump in because, like, we
(00:23):
miss all the gold.
>> Corinne (00:25):
We got it. We got.
>> Sarah (00:26):
It's all pockets of gold. Oh, you got your
sparkly. You got your bubbly.
>> Corinne (00:30):
Pockets full of gold. Yeah, pockets.
>> Sarah (00:33):
Okay, what do you have?
>> Corinne (00:36):
Well, today, in my fancy glass, it's. It's. It's
still the. Still the work day here for me. I'm
taking a break to, to record. So, today I've got
ginger beer with a little splash of watermelon
mint.
>> Sarah (00:53):
Oh, that's so fancy. You are so good at being
fancy with your drinks.
>> Corinne (00:57):
I'm not, but let me tell you, the exciting thing
is that my ice cube is a skeleton skull.
>> Sarah (01:04):
Stop it.
>> Corinne (01:05):
Yes. It's my Halloween. it's my Halloween vibe. I
know.
>> Sarah (01:08):
I want one. I want one. I just have a champagne
flute full of Lacroix.
>> Corinne (01:14):
You know what? It's bubbly.
>> Sarah (01:15):
We just need something bubbly because we're
toasting two special things today on this episode.
Yes.
>> Corinne (01:20):
Okay, what are we testing?
>> Sarah (01:21):
Okay, so season finale of, Spiritual Pyro.
>> Corinne (01:25):
We did it. We did it.
>> Sarah (01:27):
You came on the journey with us.
>> Corinne (01:29):
We talked for an entire season of podcast
episodes.
>> Sarah (01:32):
You guys listened to us talk for so many hours. So
many hours of us talking.
>> Corinne (01:37):
We had so many things to say.
>> Sarah (01:39):
We did. We had lots of ideas and correct opinions.
>> Corinne (01:44):
Thanks for being in our opinion.
>> Sarah (01:46):
In our opinion.
>> Corinne (01:49):
And we are also toasting the fact that in just a
few short days, next week on Tuesday on October
21st, baby, the skies are full of us takes flight.
>> Sarah (02:06):
Oh, my goodness. Finally. Oh, finally. She's
coming to life. She will be in your hands.
Finally.
>> Corinne (02:17):
Finally. Release day, launch day, pub day, all of
the above.
>> Sarah (02:24):
We.
>> Corinne (02:25):
We are. We're here. We're here. We made it.
>> Sarah (02:29):
There were many, many days we thought we'd never
see this day coming. And really, it's as we. We
joke, but truly, it's been a literary event four
to seven years in the making, really.
>> Corinne (02:46):
And honestly, like, I mean, you know, we're tired,
right? Like, we're tired. Like, this has been a
long, long journey, and there is so much
excitement that I feel like is just now starting
to hit. Like, it's just now starting to sink in
(03:07):
that we actually get to celebrate next week. We
actually get to, like, live in this moment of
finally it all coming to fruition. All of these.
All of these years coming to fruition. I don't
know. I think I've been, like, kind of a little
bit, you know, Hesitant to like, allow myself to
(03:29):
like really feel it and celebrate it. So here we
are. Final episode Spiritual Pyro Season 1 Raising
Our Glass. Here we go. Cheers baby. Woo. You can't
see us, but we're cheersing through our zoom
cameras on our laptops.
>> Sarah (03:49):
It's one of our traditions, is to drink something
bubbly. Can be a different thing each time.
Something bubbly and a toast to honor. Whenever
there's a milestone, some kind of accomplishment,
some kind of threshold crossed, we've got to take
a minute and honestly it's a little treat. It's.
It's a moment marked. It's been such a long hard
(04:09):
journey and this has been one of the things we've
done to make it a little sweeter.
>> Corinne (04:16):
Yep. Yep. And it's we, it's the way that we
practice little bits of celebration. M. We've had
to like claw for it little the little pieces along
the way. So we have a very well oiled practice now
of these little tiny celebrations along the way.
We no longer wait only for the big ones. M. We do
the little ones slowly by slowly. That's how we
(04:39):
get to the big things.
>> Sarah (04:41):
It's another form of, of with you really. It's
become another practice of with you. It's another
ritual that's sort of ingrained itself in, in the
process of. We have been through, I guess the
creative process, the writing process, this
journey. But really now it's become another thread
of our friendship, another part of how we do life
(05:01):
with each other.
>> Corinne (05:02):
Yes.
>> Sarah (05:03):
Find a way to mark the moment. Make it, make it
kind of sparkly and bubbly.
>> Corinne (05:07):
Yeah. Doesn't matter what's in your glass. Doesn't
matter what time of day it is. Doesn't matter how
big the moment is or how small it is. Sometimes
the smaller the moment, the more holy and sacred
the moment. Don't you think?
Like sometimes those moments that nobody else
knows about that are not, you know, they're never
gonna grace your social media feed. They're never
(05:29):
gonna be an announcement, it's never gonna be
public. Sometimes those little tiny things along
the way are the most sacred ones.
>> Sarah (05:38):
Yeah, that's really true. I was thinking the other
day I was as I was reading through the audiobook.
Well, that's another thing we can toast actually
another thing we did today.
>> Corinne (05:49):
Yes.
>> Sarah (05:50):
True is we finished the last chapter, reading the
last chapter of our audiobook which I don't know
if we want to give away any spoilers. Do we want a
little spoiler?
>> Corinne (06:03):
Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Because I can't, because I
already gave away a spoiler on my stories, so we
may as well.
>> Sarah (06:10):
Of course you did. So the last chapter of Skies is
a chapter that we write together, and so it's in
our shared collective voice. And what was really
special and fun about that is that we got to read
the chapter together, and so that's what we got to
do today. Earlier in the day, we recorded that
(06:32):
chapter together for the audiobook, which we're so
excited about when that comes out for you to be
able to listen to it. We were really grateful and
so happy that we got to record that ourselves. So
we got to tell our stories in our own voice. And
that was something that was really important to
us, and we're just so, so thrilled with the way
that that's come out, and can't wait for that.
(06:54):
And, yeah, so that was another big thing. See, so
many things that we've been told.
>> Corinne (06:57):
We've been so busy. We've been busy. We've gotten
so much done. I'm so proud of us.
>> Sarah (07:03):
Yeah, I'm so proud of us.
>> Corinne (07:05):
Okay. But you know what. What was so great about
reading that last chapter is that, you know, one
of the things that I love so much about Skies is
how we volley back and forth with our chapters.
You know, we just take turns and our different
voices telling our different stories. But I love
that in that last chapter, we get to blend our
voices and we get to actually go back and forth
(07:27):
within the same story. And that just feels really
beautiful and really true. And I can't wait for
the reader to read along with it, but I really
can't wait for the audio listeners to get to hear
us read those. So I don't know. I mean, I'm the
type of person where, you know, for certain books,
(07:49):
I will both buy the book and read it and listen to
the audio, especially if it's a certain author
with a certain voice or a certain cadence that I
want to hear. And so I think that our book and the
way that we read it is really special and unique.
So I actually kind of hope that, that there are
people who get to listen to it as well as read it,
(08:10):
because I think that's going to be a unique
experience all its own. Yeah.
>> Sarah (08:14):
Okay, so this was like a good segue into the
conversation we were having earlier. Yeah. And you
were introducing this idea of the death of the
author. So. Yeah, talk about that because. Because
what my mind went to. And we'll jump back into
that, because I think we should break that down
and talk about that. But. But what my mind went to
is, like, okay, is it a different. Like, does it
(08:35):
make a difference when you're reading the book
versus having it read to you in the author's
voice? So, okay, so I'm gonna hold that question.
Let's break down what that. Death of the author.
What does that mean? What are we talking about?
And then let's revisit that. That question.
Because I'm. I'm like, does it. Because I feel
(08:56):
like I don't know. Okay. All right, so let's jump
into what death of the author means.
>> Corinne (09:00):
Okay, so. So I had heard this concept recently,
and it has just really stuck with me because I
find that as a consumer of other people's work, it
is very true for me. And so now as an author
myself, I'm looking at it from that. From. From
(09:21):
the opposite angle. But. Okay, so I, I. So Sarah.
I pulled a Sarah and I practiced a little, five
wing, and did a little research to figure out
where this came from, because I think I heard Liz
Gilbert talking about it, but it didn't come from
her. She was referencing something else. And so
what I found is actually, It's an, essay that was
(09:44):
originally published back in the 60s in 1967, by
an author, by the name of Roland Bart, I believe
is. How you say the last name. But the death of
the author, the concept is basically meaning that
once you create something and you share it with
(10:04):
the world, the author's original intention no
longer matters as much as the way that the reader
or the listener or the receiver. Receiver.
Interprets it. So an author has all of their
backstory and their intention and all of the
personal experience that goes into creating
(10:26):
whatever it is that they're making, whether it's a
song or a movie or a book or a poem or anything
else. Anything, that they're sharing with the
world. But when we consume that artwork, we come
with our own experiences, our own lives, our own
perspectives, and we interpret that work. So once
(10:47):
the consumer interprets the artwork, basically the
author is dead to that. To that consumer. Right.
So I think about it, especially right now, you
know, when, you know, Taylor's got her new album
out and everybody is having conversations about
what does the song mean and what is it about and
who is it about and what's the backstory And. And
(11:09):
there's so many of the songs where I'm like, I
don't even care. Because when I listen to a song,
I'm thinking about what it means to me. I'm
thinking about my own life or my own friends or my
own experiences and how it, how I'm making meaning
of those lyrics for myself. And so that is death
of the author. Sure. She's writing brilliant pop
(11:33):
songs, you know, for the, you know, from her own
life, from her own experiences. And there's all of
those Easter eggs and all of those, true things
and all of her intentions. But really, as I'm
listening to her music, I'm thinking about my own
stories. So when we think about skies and we think
about the death of the author, you and I, we have
(11:55):
written our guts into this book, right? We have,
totally.
I mean like we have. We've done the Ernest
Hemingway. We've bled onto the page. Right. And
yet we also say that we find ourselves in between
the pages of each other's stories. So the whole
intention is that we're offering these stories,
(12:17):
but we're actually inviting the reader around the
bonfire so that they can find themselves in their
own stories and in these pages. So we're actually
hoping for the death of the author, right. We're
actually hoping that someone doesn't have to have
these crazy dramatic stories to be able to relate.
We're actually hoping that there's these universal
(12:39):
truths that somebody else is going to be able to
resonate with and connect, to in our writing and
in our storytelling. That's going to make this
connection thing, which is why we do this. It's
going to make that true and bigger and more
beautiful. Right?
>> Sarah (12:58):
Yeah. And I. So you were mentioning this to me
when we were debriefing the Taylor album because I
was feeling a little hung up on some of the drama
behind some of the songs and feeling a little bit
like, oh my gosh, like it was getting in the way
for me of really being able to sit with some of
the songs and really get into them. I was, I was a
(13:20):
little bit distracted by some of the. The drama
that was going on, the bigger outside stuff. And
when you introduced that idea to me, it was just
like a light bulb went off and I don't know, I
hadn't heard it before and I, I get the concept of
it, but I hadn't ever really applied it that
specifically, I guess. And it really shifted the
way I was able to even just like isolate the, the
(13:41):
lyrics and the songs from the person really, and
listen to it and apply it in a totally different
way to my life. So I feel like it allowed me, it
allowed me to listen to it without getting in my
own way. Without. Without, you know, and. And,
yes, make it my own and make it. Meaning make it.
(14:02):
And, you know, all that. But really, it was like,
in some way, it almost made. It made the music
feel more pure. Like, it just shifted something in
the way that I was able to, like, the lens I was
able to use to listen to it. I don't know. And so
when I think about that with. With the way I would
maybe read a book or I would listen to other music
or I'd watch a movie or something, it. I just.
(14:26):
That, to me, feels really exciting because that
feels like. Yeah, there's one element where I
almost feel like it makes me want to do everything
twice. Like, I want to read a book and experience
it through the lens of the author, because it's
their story they're trying to tell.
>> Corinne (14:43):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:43):
And then I want to read it and experience it in
this other pure way that maybe is. Just lets me
experience it through my own lens of my life. And,
I mean, who has time to do that? I don't have time
to do that, but I just think it's such a cool
concept. And it really just was like a fresh way
to think about art and to think about, how I
(15:04):
approach it, which, as. As an artist, that was
just. It was really inspiring to me. It was really
intriguing to me. It was very interesting.
>> Corinne (15:43):
Okay. And so you want to know, this makes me
think, is that there's also this bigger
conversation of whether or not we can separate the
art from the artists. Right. And that actually is
a much deeper conversation about ethics and about,
you know, when there is an artist who is either,
morally or ethically or politically problematic
(16:04):
and whether or not we can separate their art from
who they are as an artist, I think this is a. This
is kind of like a different. A, different facet of
that same conversation where, you know, we can
experience someone's art through our own lens. And
we can also acknowledge that where someone's art
(16:27):
where. Where art comes from and the experiences
and the person that art comes from also still
matters. Right. So, like, you know, whether we're
having a conversation about somebody like a Woody
Allen or, you know, Michael Jackson or, you know,
any of those, like, big iconic, iconic figures
that have, you know, where we've then had to
(16:49):
wrestle with who they are as a person and what has
come to light in more recent years, like, this is
a much bigger conversation. So I think this idea
of death of the author is kind of on the other
side of that. Which, Yeah, I just, I think it's a.
I think it's a bigger, deeper conversation and one
that can, invite us in on a more expansive, more
(17:14):
beautiful level and then also one that challenges
us to think deeper at the same time. So I think
it's a. Both and, and I really like that.
>> Sarah (17:23):
Like all things are really.
>> Corinne (17:24):
I guess that's true.
>> Sarah (17:26):
This really great invitation for the reader to
find their story within the pages of our story.
And so that really, like when we think about Skies
coming into this new, this new like, stage of her
life, like she's, she's been, we've been living
(17:46):
with her, we know her so well. She's about to kind
of enter this, new phase of life where she's going
to become this, this entity in other people's
lives and they're going to get to know her. You're
going to get to know her and she'll become
something to you. She'll become something
meaningful and in a whole new way to you. And that
(18:09):
is so exciting and incredible to think about. But
it's, it's sort of makes me feel like, I guess as,
as the author, as co author, it's like, what do I,
what are my hopes and wishes and like what do I
want? And it's, it really does come down to that.
Like, oh my gosh, like, I want you to find your
story within our story, within those pages, within
(18:32):
her story. I can't wait to hear. What are the,
what are the parts that are going to stand out?
Like, what are the lines that you're going to
circle and highlight? And like, what are the, ah,
the moments that you're going to sit with and that
are going to hold you and that you're going to
text to your friend and yeah, it was just. Those
are the beautiful things now that I find myself
(18:54):
thinking about and imagining and really with bated
breath just sitting here going like, oh my gosh, I
can't wait. I really can't wait to, to hear about
that. Like, I'm like, please tell us. Like, please
tell us. We really want to know.
>> Corinne (19:12):
Please tell us. yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (19:13):
How about you, Karine? I mean, is it similar? Are
you having similar thoughts?
>> Corinne (19:17):
yeah. Like, oh, I just, you know, there are, There
are things in my life, decisions I have made,
risks I have taken, dreams I have acted upon
(19:39):
because of something I've read, because of
something I've heard, because of a movie I
watched, because of a scene. Scene that I saw,
because of, because of one line In a book, you
know, like, and I know the power of words, right?
Like, I just genuinely, in all of my earnest,
(20:03):
like, cheesiness, like, I just genuinely believe
in the power of our stories and our words.
>> Sarah (20:09):
And.
>> Corinne (20:12):
I want so much for those moments where someone's
own life comes into focus for themselves. I want
so much for those moments where that match strike,
where that spark ignites. I want so much for those
(20:34):
moments to exist in. In any sense. No. Whether
it's reading our book or anybody else's book, or
listening to a song or watching a film. Like, I
just am giddy thinking about, all of the ways that
we get to affect each other and, and shift each
(20:57):
other's lives. And I've been thinking so much
lately about how, you know, really, we just want
to make our younger selves proud and our older
selves proud. Right? And so I just think most of
the time we have those little things in the back
of our mind that have been waiting for us to just
come into focus. They've been waiting for us to
(21:19):
just take a chance, take a risk, take flight, you
know that. For that spark to light. And so I just,
I wonder, will it be something. Will it be a
phrase on a page in skies? Will it be something
that is completely unrelated but will connect
(21:44):
someday later on down the road to something that
we wrote or something that. A picture that we
painted or an experience that we talked about that
somebody's going to go find for themselves, Right?
Like we talked about how it might be a trail that
we talk about that somebody goes and walks for
themselves and they have their own experience. So
it might not even be something that actually we
(22:05):
write, but it might be something that somebody
then writes for themselves someday, right, with
their actual life.
>> Sarah (22:12):
So I don't know.
>> Corinne (22:13):
I just. I'm a sucker for it. Like, I just can't
help but believe that this is how our lives
happen. That this is. That part of it is. Part of
it is, you know, from our own insides. And then
part of it is. Is shaped by the people and the
circumstances around us and, and anybody who holds
(22:34):
our book. It just feels like an honor. It feels
like an honor to even be. For our work, to even be
in their life or in their, in their presence as
opposed to like the other way around. Right? Like,
like the artwork gets to be in their life is like,
exciting.
>> Sarah (22:55):
Yes. It's so.
>> Corinne (22:57):
It.
>> Sarah (22:57):
Yeah. Honor is such a good word for that because,
I mean, time is the greatest resource and there's
no one has enough of it. And Attention and energy.
And so to have. Have the extreme privilege of
someone wanting to spend their time and energy and
attention on our story, our book, that is
(23:19):
incredible. It's so. I mean it's, it's humbling.
and it's not taken lightly. And I think that the
mutual, the mutual gift of that is. Is the
intention and care we put into creating it and,
and writing it with. With that in mind as well.
>> Corinne (23:37):
That. Yeah.
>> Sarah (23:38):
So carefully made. And Yeah, I, I really. Gosh, I
mean it almost. It makes me kind of emotional even
still. Right. I think we're just on the heels of
it. It's sort of that like. Oh, it's just, it's
vulnerable, but it's also just the bigness of it
and the. The just really happiness of it. Like
(24:00):
this is. This has been a long time coming and I
think the beauty of. Of like it's never too late.
And I think that there are, there are women in my
life who bet on themselves and didn't give up on
themselves. And they, have inspired me to do the
same. And I have called upon them, you know,
(24:24):
looked upon them, called upon them, for courage
throughout, throughout this process even too. And,
and you know, and I count you among them, Karine.
And I think it's just incredible to be at this
point. And there were many times that we weren't
sure we would make it and we almost gave up many
(24:44):
times on this, on this project and had to really
question, is it worth it and how far are we going
to take it? And we had to make that choice to
continue to bet on ourselves and believe in the
work. And so, you know, it's a big enough deal
without all the extra drama, without all the extra
stuff that went into this specific book. To just
(25:05):
publish a book, to write a book and to put it out
in the world is a massive accomplishment. And I
look at what this book has been through already
and as you write in Skies, Hope with her bloodied
knees and. And that's Sky's with her bloodied
(25:26):
knees, but getting back up one more time and one
more time again. And here she is.
>> Corinne (25:34):
Mouth, full of dirt. Yeah, like that's us for Sam
(26:10):
M. I would love to talk about the backstory of
(26:31):
Skies and kind of how that all came to be. You
know, it. It's a. It's such a part of the bones of
this book and yet for us it's such a normal built
in part of her story. But I'm reminded of just how
special that was and how. And how it all came to
(26:54):
be. So I think it'd be fun to walk through that
and share it with our listeners. What do you
think?
>> Sarah (26:59):
I would love that. I would love that.
>> Corinne (27:01):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:03):
I love that story so much, and it feels so special
to me because it's sort of like this Easter egg.
It's sort of like the story within the story,
that.
>> Corinne (27:14):
It's lore.
>> Sarah (27:15):
It's lore. It's totally lore.
>> Corinne (27:18):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (27:18):
And, you know, we love. We love. We love. We love
a good lore story.
>> Corinne (27:21):
We love our lore.
>> Sarah (27:23):
Yeah, it's.
>> Corinne (27:24):
It's like.
>> Sarah (27:25):
I don't know, it's just kind of like. Oh, like.
Yeah, just the goodie. Like, I love it. okay, so I
feel like the lore starts with you.
>> Corinne (27:35):
Okay. I feel like. Yeah, but, like, the Lord,
like, where it starts was us together, so, like,
we can kind of paint that picture a little bit.
>> Sarah (27:47):
So. So do you want me to tell. Do you want to go
the opposite way of how we told it, Andre and
Claire? Like, do you want backstory it the other
way?
>> Corinne (27:59):
Well, I'm. I'm just. I mean, we could tell it
chronologically. I'm just saying. We. It was. You
and I. We were together, in 2018.
>> Sarah (28:10):
We were together in 2018. We were having lunch.
>> Corinne (28:13):
Yeah. And one of the things that I just think is
funny is that once when I was listening to that
episode, like, do you remember how ridiculously
difficult it was for us to get together during
those. During those days? Like, it was almost
impossible. Like, we ev. Like, every single time
(28:34):
there would be something that would come up.
Somebody, some kid would be sick or some, you
know, the car would have an issue or there would
be weather or, it. It was like so many things
would get in the way that it was like the. It was.
It felt so. So miraculous when we would get
together to hang out, that it just felt like all
(28:54):
the stars had aligned and that we would get to sit
down, like, face to face. It was like the most
exciting, special. Like, it was like, grab onto
each other and hang on for dear life, because who
knew, like, what was going.
>> Sarah (29:07):
To happen next when we possibly. And we lived
maybe. Maybe an hour from each other? It wasn't
like we lived that far from each other, but it was
nearly impossible. Almost to the point it was like
a comedy of errors. It was like, you got to be
kidding me. Like, yeah, let's set this date. But,
like, we both know it's probably not going to
happen. And. And lo and behold, like, the day
would hit or the night before it'd be like, you.
(29:28):
You've. You've got to be kidding me. Like, my kids
throwing out, like.
>> Corinne (29:31):
Yeah, no, literally, I remember I was, like, at
the Starbucks, and you were, like, five minutes
out, and you were like, I'm so sorry. I'm five
minutes away. And Mercy literally just threw up in
the car and it was like, oh, my gosh. It was like
that kind of thing. Like, it was. It wasn't even,
like, the night before. It was like, literally
five minutes before. Yeah. And you're, like, down
(29:52):
the street and Mercy is just thrown up all over in
the car.
>> Sarah (29:54):
Yeah, no, I vividly remember that.
>> Corinne (29:57):
It was so hard. So, anyway, so it was like a.
>> Sarah (30:02):
Deal that we finally got together. Nothing went
wrong. We were having lunch kind of midway. We
found a great little midway spot. lgo, Arcadia.
Those that know Arizona.
>> Corinne (30:14):
Yes.
>> Sarah (30:15):
Lgo.
>> Corinne (30:15):
Do you want to carry our book? Lgo, do you want to
put our book on the shelf?
>> Sarah (30:19):
Buy your delicious candles? That would be amazing.
Yeah, Shout out to candles. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, we
give a shout out to candles and skies. We do.
>> Corinne (30:29):
We do. I want to call the lgo buyer. I'm going to
call the lgo buyer. I'm going to see if maybe
they'll carry our book.
>> Sarah (30:35):
Making moves, Having brilliant marketing ideas on
the spot.
>> Corinne (30:38):
Yeah, this is how it happens mid podcast. we do
our own stunts here. Anyway, M. So we are sitting.
I feel like we need to go recreate this. you know,
the next time we're together, I feel like to go,
like, sit at the table.
>> Sarah (30:57):
We will. We should do an Instagram live of it.
We'll do it.
>> Corinne (31:00):
Yeah. Okay. but we're sitting at. We're sitting at
this table by the window at lgo, having a
fantastic little brunch lunch, whatever, and, you
know, just talking about all the things and
catching up on all the craziness with our families
and.
>> Sarah (31:16):
Okay. I think it's important, though, to say,
like, this was 2018. We were not, like, like,
thriving. We were not like, cute girls thriving.
Catching up on, things over brunch. Like, we were
like, crawl. Like, crawling like ghosts of
ourselves. Like little, you know, I mean, not,
(31:39):
not. Not doing well. I would say this was like,
post moving back from Thailand and Chicago and,
like, so had just, really moved back to the desert
and had. Life was upside down. We had no idea what
we were going to be doing with our life. So this
was definitely not like, our best version of
ourselves.
>> Corinne (31:56):
But.
>> Sarah (31:56):
But this was. This was like, if there was anyone
that we would rally to go sit across from who we
would feel safe enough to be seen, you know, to
really be seen in that state. Because this is not
like, get dressed up and go out and be, you know,
fabulous. This was like.
>> Corinne (32:15):
We were not. We were not Arcadia cute.
>> Sarah (32:17):
No, we were not Arcadia cute. No, no. We were just
like, I'm present. I'm physically here in this
seat with you.
>> Corinne (32:24):
In fact. In fact, I was. I definitely was asking
you about your concealer, and, And I was asking
you how to apply it, because your under eyes
looked good, and mine, I knew very well, did not.
Well, and you're like.
>> Sarah (32:38):
You knew that they, like, the truth was underneath
that concealer, they did not look good.
>> Corinne (32:44):
So you're like, what are you doing some magic?
>> Sarah (32:47):
What is your magic trick?
>> Corinne (32:48):
Yeah, but I. But I very specifically remember
asking you if you used a brush to apply your
concealer or if you used a fingertip. Like, for
some reason. That was the key question.
>> Sarah (32:59):
That was, like, what you needed to.
>> Corinne (33:00):
Know, like, the application of the concealer. What
is the methodology?
>> Sarah (33:06):
It was my finger. Gentle reader. It was my finger.
>> Corinne (33:08):
It was. Yeah, I do remember. That was the answer,
and I was amazed.
>> Sarah (33:12):
Fast forward. I now use a brush. I've grown up.
>> Corinne (33:16):
Fast forward. We now use the tarte.
>> Sarah (33:19):
The tarte.
>> Corinne (33:20):
clay.
>> Sarah (33:20):
Clay under eye. It's fabulous.
>> Corinne (33:23):
Color corrector.
>> Sarah (33:24):
Color corrector. Concealer.
>> Corinne (33:25):
Anyway, free.
>> Sarah (33:27):
Free commercials. We're just. We're just doling
them out left and right.
>> Corinne (33:30):
Yeah. We're not even sponsored. We should be.
>> Sarah (33:32):
We want to be.
>> Corinne (33:34):
feel free to call us. We have mature skin. Feel
free to call us.
>> Sarah (33:40):
Oh, my gosh. I swear, our drink, which everybody.
>> Corinne (33:43):
On TikTok says not to use it if you have mature
skin. But whatever.
>> Sarah (33:46):
What? We're.
>> Corinne (33:47):
We're rocking and rolling.
>> Sarah (33:48):
Oh, my gosh. Whatever. It keeps all my secrets, my
skin secrets.
>> Corinne (33:52):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (33:53):
For me. Okay.
>> Corinne (33:54):
We're not above it.
>> Sarah (33:55):
We are losing the plot.
>> Corinne (33:58):
That is the plot, honey. Okay. All right. So back
on track. We're sitting at the table, and we get
through the concealer conversation. We are
discussing our therapists. We are. You know, we're
discussing our families, like, barely hanging on
by a thread, and all of a sudden, all of the
things. and I start to have. I start to get an
(34:20):
idea. And we know me. I have lots of ideas.
>> Sarah (34:27):
Lots and lots of ideas.
>> Corinne (34:29):
I have so many notes in my notes app. Right. I
have lots of ideas. but this one came in, like, a
little wisp spur, and it was. It felt like some
big magic. It felt like an invitation. It felt
like something that was swirling. It felt like
(34:50):
maybe there was some shimmering in the air. I
don't know. It felt special and sacred and holy.
And the conversation was continuing, but I kind of
tuned out a little bit, admittedly, and I started
thinking to myself, I feel like there's something
for us here as we're talking about our grief and
(35:11):
we're talking about our healing journey, and we're
talking about, you know, our families just, you
know, still being in shambles. We're talking about
this really, really long road ahead of us and
trying to rebuild our lives, and still at that
point, having really no idea what that was going
to look like. And there were no answers at that
(35:32):
point, still. And yet there was this sense that
there was something for us. We were both writers.
That much was obvious. but there was something to
be made. And it felt like a holy moment. And it
was very clear that neither of us was well yet.
Right. Like, we were not through it. We were still
(35:52):
knee deep in everything. That was really, really
hard. So it did not feel like we were on the other
side and ready to make something, but it felt like
maybe there was a little candle lit that day for
the hope or the promise that maybe there could be
something for us to make together. So I had the
(36:13):
sense, which, again, is, I'm. I'm surprised at. I
had this sense that it wasn't something to share
right then. It was something to hold. And so I
made a promise to myself in that moment. In my
mind. I didn't let it out, which I just held it. I
bit my tongue, which I am so.
>> Sarah (36:36):
I'm so impressed with you.
>> Corinne (36:38):
Like, so proud of myself for doing that.
>> Sarah (36:40):
Yeah. Especially something that big, like, in the
moment, because, like, the, the adrenaline hit,
like, that instant, I would have been so excited.
Yes.
>> Corinne (36:49):
And it's you. So I would have been like, hey, hey,
hey, hey.
>> Sarah (36:51):
Guess.
>> Corinne (36:51):
what. Like, what about. What about this?
>> Sarah (36:52):
Okay.
>> Corinne (36:53):
But I didn't. And I just sat there and I thought,
okay, if this is a big magic invitation, if this
is something that is swirling, that's. If this is
something for us, then I'm gonna hold it. And if
she. You, Sarah, if Sarah ever. If she ever
suggests something like this, if she ever suggests
(37:14):
the two of us make something together about all of
this, from all of this, with all of this, then
I'll know that there's something to it. But it's.
This is too much. It's too heavy. It's too big,
it's too explosive. It feels too dangerous still
at this point for both of us to be putting all of
these experiences and these stories together to
(37:36):
make something from it. And it, And if it's not
coming from both of us in a real. In a really
beautiful way, in a beautiful space, I don't want
it. Right. So I just held it and set it aside.
Yeah, miraculously, miraculously enough, yeah, you
really did.
>> Sarah (37:55):
So, I mean, and not just for like a week. You held
it for. It was more than a year.
>> Corinne (38:02):
It was, honestly, I don't know how it was more.
>> Sarah (38:05):
It was a couple years. I feel like I'm not, I'm
not.
>> Corinne (38:07):
Good at that type of thing.
>> Sarah (38:08):
No. I'm so impressed with you.
>> Corinne (38:11):
I get too excited. I get too excited. I cannot
hold on to things like that.
>> Sarah (38:14):
I mean, the same thing.
>> Corinne (38:15):
It is, it is miraculous. Okay, so fast forward.
>> Sarah (38:18):
So you were holding that and I had no idea. And
meanwhile we're going, we're literally living
through what would become the book. We're walking
through our healing processes and so many miles
spent on those desert trails. And I. So this was
like, I gosh, I don't know when it would have been
anyway. 20, 20, something like that. And I was
(38:41):
driving down from the mountain. We had, a cabin up
north in northern Arizona. And I remember it was
this crazy snowstorm. And then the route that we
normally took to come down the mountain, we were
going to, I think it was Christmas time. So it's
going to the ranch where I've got some family down
in the valley. The route I normally take was
(39:02):
completely snowed out. Like, couldn't go that way.
So it's normally like a three hour drive. Ended up
becoming a six and a half hour drive because I had
to backtrack and go this other way through these
canyons. It was super windy and like really
gorgeous, but really scary and kind of perilous.
And at one point, as I'm kind of coming around
(39:24):
this corner of this really beautiful canyon, I had
this thought flash in my head. And so I love like
long drives. I don't get to do them that often,
but that's where some of my best ideas come is
like those long road trip drives. And so I'm
thinking through like, you know, it's been a
(39:44):
couple years since we've moved from Chicago and
what am I doing with all this, this work that I've
done and you know, post kind of the traumatic
experiences. And here I am a writer and I, and
I'VE been trying to write. I've been trying to
figure out how am I going to move forward, what am
I going to do career wise? What am I going to
make? And I haven't been able to make anything.
(40:07):
I'm stuck. And so I'm. So I'm driving down this.
This canyon, and all of a sudden, this. This
thought pops into my head and I'm like, oh, my
gosh. I pick up my phone and I start leaving the
voice memo, and I'm like, Karine. I was like, no
(40:27):
pressure, but it's like, I feel like we're
supposed to write a book together. And I start,
like, casting this vision about, like, okay, what
if. What if it's not just me writing about my
story and what happened to me and my family? What
if it's us writing our stories about what happened
to us and our families and, like, our community?
(40:48):
And what if it's not just about the parallel lines
of what happens in churches and nonprofits, but
it's like, this happens everywhere. And what if
the story is not just about the trauma? What if
it's also about the friendship that got us
through? And what if it's also about the healing?
And what if it's also this, like, much bigger
(41:08):
story than, like, it was just this kind of, like,
long rambling. It was not that eloquent, even.
That was not that eloquent.
>> Corinne (41:14):
It was.
>> Sarah (41:15):
It was rambling.
>> Corinne (41:15):
It was. It was. It was beautiful. It was so good.
It was.
>> Sarah (41:18):
But the reality that hit me was like, I am not
going to be able to make anything new until this
story that's living inside of me moves through me.
And it's so much more beautiful of a story when
it's not just my story and the fact, like, they're
just. The fact that you and I lived through it,
Karine, so simultaneously and so parallel. It was
(41:44):
just. It was just sitting there asking to be told.
It was just like, how could we not? How could we
not? When you say the big magic, you know, how
could we not step into that big magic? And, yeah,
it's terrifying. And it would ask for all our best
courage, and it would mean reliving my trauma
(42:04):
again and you reliving yours, and then vice versa.
Having to step into each other's and asking our
families to do that. And there were so many
moments of consent that needed to be practiced
before we even, really dared to really consider it
more seriously. So many steps along the way that
(42:24):
got us to this point today. But really, that was
the beginning of the Idea of the book started back
in 2018 and then was given some language out loud
in 2020 and we started writing in 2021, I believe.
>> Corinne (42:41):
The very beginning of it. Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:42):
Ah, back up at that cabin. Back at the cabin.
Cabin. Which I love that. So.
>> Corinne (42:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:49):
And now here she is, ready to take flight.
>> Corinne (43:07):
M. Well, and let's just have a moment for the fact
that your normal route coming down from the cabin,
(43:29):
for anybody here who is from Arizona, the normal
route coming down would be coming down off the
rim. Okay. But she didn't come down off the river
rim. Sarah had to backtrack and drive through Salt
River Canyon. So for anyone who has driven through
Salt River Canyon in a storm and is now listening
(43:52):
to Sarah talking about picking up her phone and
leaving me a voice text, this is just a disclaimer
to go ahead and take this time to say that we do
not condone texting or voice texting while
driving. Especially in Salt River Canyon, of all
places.
>> Sarah (44:09):
Yeah, maybe don't do that. Sorry, Mom.
>> Corinne (44:13):
When I found out you were doing that in Salt River
Canyon, I'm like, okay, I love the idea, but what
were you thinking? Gosh, what were you thinking?
>> Sarah (44:21):
I survived. I know, but long story short, I
survived.
>> Corinne (44:24):
Yeah, Long story short.
>> Sarah (44:25):
I mean, don't do that.
>> Corinne (44:27):
Magic strikes, you have to catch the tiger by the
tail. I know. but it really was, a kind of a wild
moment. especially, you know, there are those
moments for me where as much as I have set down in
my, you know, faith. Faith. Deconstruction. There
(44:48):
are those moments where I'm like, you know, I
don't know. I don't know. What I believe about
everything all the time anymore. But I know that
there are some things that are bigger than us and
I don't even bother to try to explain them or put
names on them or labels on them. I. I don't. But I
can still receive them. And that was one of those
(45:11):
moments where I was like, okay, all right.
>> Sarah (45:14):
Yeah.
>> Corinne (45:14):
Okay, here we are. Here we are. There's something
bigger than us here. And I'm paying attention. I'm
listening. That thing from a couple years ago,
here it is. Yep, it's time. And ever since then,
we have called this book, this work, our, dam
breaker. Because both of us, it was very clear
(45:36):
that this work had to be done in order for
anything else to be able to flow. It had to be
done. And even though there have been articles
written about both of the things that our family
has experienced, there's been action taken.
(45:56):
There's been lots of facts and lots of, you know,
attempts at justice. this has been a different
kind of work. This has been us metabolizing
something really, really difficult through our own
bodies, through our own lens and creating
something really, really beautiful from it. And
(46:20):
that's a whole different kind of justice work. one
that doesn't involve, you know, news outlets or
legal systems, hopefully, or, you know, any really
anybody else. It's. It's a metabolic. The
creativity is metabolic within our own bodies.
And, I think, you know, when we were talking to
(46:41):
Joy and Claire, you said it, Sarah, I thought. I
loved how you said it. You were just like, I
needed it out of my body. So, like, that somatic
release. I needed it out of my body. And there was
this, like, sense of, the rule of threes, the rule
of thirds for me, where this was. This was my
(47:04):
third thing. This was the third and final piece of
this, process for me. And this was the metabolic.
This was the creative. This was the beautiful
piece. And this one was just for me. This one was
just to somatically release. To metabolize it
through my body and like you said, to release it,
(47:27):
to get it out.
>> Sarah (47:28):
Yeah.
>> Corinne (47:28):
So it could be done and that dam breaking so that
everything else that we want to make that has
nothing to do with this story. Yep. Can be
created, can be made, can be written, can. Can
flow.
>> Sarah (47:44):
Yep.
>> Corinne (47:45):
And, oh, my goodness, can I not wait for that?
>> Sarah (47:49):
It's as. As you often say, who will you even be?
I'm like, what will we even make?
>> Corinne (47:55):
That's a shout out to Gina. Right. Right there.
That's what Gina said to me.
>> Sarah (47:59):
Right.
>> Corinne (47:59):
Who will you even be? Yep.
>> Sarah (48:04):
so, okay, so skies comes out October 21st. We're
so excited. If you have pre ordered, you may
notice that it ships out. You might get it anytime
we're starting to see that people are getting it.
If you get it, tag us on Social, send us a
picture, post about it.
>> Corinne (48:22):
Share.
>> Sarah (48:24):
Ah, we're so excited for you to be along on the
ride with us. Thank you for supporting us and
being so excited alongside us. we're just
incredibly honored and thrilled and. Yeah.
>> Corinne (48:38):
Yeah. So we're raising our glass to this first
season of Spiritual Pyro and to this first book,
the skies are Full of Us.
>> Sarah (48:51):
Thanks for being with us. We're with you.
>> Corinne (48:53):
We love you. cheers.
>> Sarah (48:56):
Cheers.
>> Rebeca (49:10):
You've been listening to Spiritual Pyro with Sarah
Carter and Corrine Shark on the 1C Story Network.
For more information, about this and all of our
stories, please visit just1c.com that's J u s t o
n e c dot com.
>> Corinne (49:55):
Look at us. We're so cute. We always think it's
going to be shorter.
>> Sarah (49:58):
I know. We're adorable for that.
>> Singer (49:59):
The 1C Story Network.
For the love of stories.
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