S1E15 — Returning to Ourselves
After the ashes of Ruin and the slow climb of Rise, comes Return — the sacred threshold where Sarah and Corinne find their way back to themselves. This is the part of the story where reclamation takes root: where the quiet becomes a kind of summoning, and where survival turns into something luminous and whole.
Corinne reads from her “Sanctuary” chapter, a glimpse of reclaiming her thirteen-year-old self — the rebel, the dreamer, the girl who refused to disappear. It’s perhaps a reckoning with roots and rebellion, a love letter to the self that once ran wild and is finally being welcomed home.
Sarah reads from “Kachina Woman,” a reflection on returning to the desert, the feminine divine, legacy, and the ancient rhythm of belonging that never really left her.
Together, they explore what it means to return — not to who they were before, but to who they were always meant to be.
✨ This episode is an invitation to remember the parts of yourself you left behind, to listen for your own return, and to find beauty in the becoming.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com.
Pick up your copy of the skies are full of us at bookshop.org or your favorite bookstore.
After the ashes of Ruin and the slow climb of Rise, comes Return — the sacred threshold where Sarah and Corinne find their way back to themselves. This is the part of the story where reclamation takes root: where the quiet becomes a kind of summoning, and where survival turns into something luminous and whole.
Corinne reads from her “Sanctuary” chapter, a glimpse of reclaiming her thirteen-year-old self — the rebel, the dreamer, the girl who refused to disappear. It’s perhaps a reckoning with roots and rebellion, a love letter to the self that once ran wild and is finally being welcomed home.
Sarah reads from “Kachina Woman,” a reflection on returning to the desert, the feminine divine, legacy, and the ancient rhythm of belonging that never really left her.
Together, they explore what it means to return — not to who they were before, but to who they were always meant to be.
✨ This episode is an invitation to remember the parts of yourself you left behind, to listen for your own return, and to find beauty in the becoming.
To connect with Sarah or Corinne, find them on Instagram: @heysarahcarter @thesaltyshark @sarahandcorinne
For more information about Spiritual Pyro, visit www.spiritualpyro.com.
Pick up your copy of the skies are full of us at bookshop.org or your favorite bookstore.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:02):
For all the match Strikers, this is Spiritual
Pyro. Well, hello again.
>> Corinne (00:28):
Hello. We're so sparkly today.
>> Sarah (00:30):
We are sparkly. We've got our sequins forever.
>> Corinne (00:35):
Yes, Sequins are forever.
>> Sarah (00:39):
In honor of the album.
>> Corinne (00:41):
We were up so late last night. We were.
>> Sarah (00:44):
We were up late, and we were amped. We were, like,
so excited.
>> Corinne (00:48):
I woke up this morning.
>> Sarah (00:51):
Extra tired. Like, what did I do last night? What
did I do in my pajamas with my sequin blazer?
Watching live streaming with you, the. The Taylor
album, and then pausing and then debriefing and
geeking out over every single moment of the song.
>> Corinne (01:09):
Every single one. I know. That was so fun, though.
I mean, but we. I mean, you know it. And then
talking about it forever as if we were podcasting
about every single song.
>> Sarah (01:20):
I know. We have to figure out how to do something
with that, because we did screen record, and if we
can, figure out the technology. We have to figure
out how to do something with that.
>> Corinne (01:27):
if we can do that.
>> Sarah (01:29):
We did, like, I think maybe five songs, because
the first five hours later for me. And so I. I
mean, I rallied.
>> Corinne (01:36):
You rallied. A certain point, I was like, girl,
also, we still only. We still only have the free
zoom, so we. We had to have two separate zoom
sessions, and it was a bridge too far to try to go
for a third.
>> Sarah (01:51):
There's just only so much we can do. Yeah, we're
still midlife girlies. We gotta call it at a
certain.
>> Corinne (01:57):
Point, and we can't pay for Zoom. We won't do it.
>> Sarah (02:00):
No, we certainly could. We choose not to. It's too
many subscriptions. It's too many paywalls. It's a
principal thing. Like, no Zoom. Stop it.
>> Corinne (02:11):
Can't do it. Stop it. Just let us talk. Just. Just
let us talk.
>> Sarah (02:16):
What's that scene in, Bridesmaids when she's on
the plane and he's. She's like, pushes the, The.
What is it like the curtain from. From first class
separating. I think she goes like, this should be
open. It's civil rights.
>> Corinne (02:32):
Zone. Should be free. It's civil rights.
>> Sarah (02:36):
Science.
>> Corinne (02:38):
Oh, my gosh. That's a perfect scene. That's a good
gift.
>> Sarah (02:41):
Oh, my gosh. Okay, so today's gonna be so fun.
Number one, there's, like, we said, the album
coming out. we get to talk about how amazing last
weekend was for us because we had a very sparkly,
fun author experience.
>> Corinne (02:58):
I'm still not over it. I can't, like, I can't
believe that was just Last weekend. Right. It
feels like.
>> Sarah (03:05):
I mean, it feels like so long ago in that we had
been counting down the days for so long leading
up, to what was this incredible Rebeca Books
launch event in Naples, Florida. So I hopped on a
plane from Chicago, Illinois. Karine flew in from
Phoenix, and we flew down to the most gorgeous
(03:26):
little beach town that we really didn't.
>> Corinne (03:30):
That we're now obsessed with.
>> Sarah (03:31):
Like, it was so cute. We were like, oh, we should
have tacked on a couple days. Rookie mistake. It
was.
>> Corinne (03:37):
So we are amateurs. Yeah. I think that's what
people do. They travel for business, and they,
like, they have a couple days to enjoy the place
that we're at. That they're at. And we did not do
that. No, we're.
>> Sarah (03:48):
We are babies. We're like little mini babies,
learning as we go. We're taking.
>> Corinne (03:52):
We need training. We need somebody to train us.
We're gonna get better at this. Honey babies.
>> Sarah (03:57):
Honey babies. But for now, that's how we did it.
But we had the most incredible experience. We got
to meet some fellow Rebeca books authors. we went
out to a really incredible brunch, this iconic
restaurant.
>> Corinne (04:12):
we had cake for breakfast. Cake for breakfast. We
were celebrating Rebeca and all of the hard work
that she's been putting in for so long, all of it
coming to fruition. And, I mean, we got to
celebrate our book, but really, it was all of us
authors, you know, getting to fan the flame of
this dream that she has had for all these years.
(04:35):
And we, you know, we have been this first cohort
of women, all of us over 40, that she has been
championing the stories of. And, you know, we're
the first. Were the first line of Rebeca books in
this fall launch. And so we got to be
representation for this ethos that she has created
(04:59):
and that she's launched into the world. All these
women with these powerful stories and these
powerful voices. It was just a real honor to be a
part of that lineup.
>> Sarah (05:10):
That is so true. If that's. That is what felt. It
just was. It was overwhelming in the best way. And
really, to be amongst such company and such
stories, to. To be a part of something where each.
Each woman, you know, as we kind of got to know
them and hear. Hear what their book's about, it's
like, oh, my God, they've lived these incredible
(05:31):
lives, and they've found a way to communicate
them. And, you know, each one just so inspiring,
and it takes a lot to find the strength and
courage to live through a hard thing and as we
know it takes a lot then to find a way to put that
into words. And, and then as we're learning right
now in real time, it's one thing to write the book
(05:53):
that's its own really hard thing. This, this part
of the, the author experience that we're learning
about right now, this part where the book is
coming out into the world and now we're, people
are reading it and starting to get to know it and
we're starting to be able to talk about it more
and share more and interact more with the words
(06:14):
and the stories that we've been living in. But in
real time and in public, it's like, oh my gosh,
okay, now we're talking about it and it's becoming
bigger and more. And the stories that are ours now
we're getting to share with readers who, are
finding their own stories within the pages. And
it's, it's what we've been dreaming of for so
long. It's just, I feel like I had so many pinch
(06:35):
me moments throughout the weekend where I had to
really remind myself this is like, slow down. It's
like Ferris Bueller, slow down. Don't miss it.
Like you're living in that moment right now. Like
if you, you know, if you don't, if you don't slow
down, you're gonna miss it. And that, whoa, like
this is the dream. It's happening right now that,
that we are getting to. We've so many moments
(06:58):
isolated in our little reading writing rooms, like
reading through edits and thinking, someday maybe
it's going to come out and then maybe someone will
read it someday and maybe it'll encourage someone
or inspire someone someday. And it really feels
overwhelming in the best way to be at this point
(07:18):
now. And yeah, just being able to be a part of the
event that was held at Barnes and Noble there in
Naples, walking into a bookstore, seeing our book
on a table with a synopsis of the story and us as
authors and just feeling like, oh, wow, this is
real. She's a real girl.
>> Corinne (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, those pinch me moments. And we keep
laughing and saying, it's happening, it's
happening. And you know, I think the writing part,
we know how to do that, right? Like, we've been
practicing that for years and years and years.
We've been walking on our own and with each other
through that process and through that practice for
(07:59):
a long time now. But this part is new and it's new
musculature, but it's also the, it's the
actualization of what we've been hoping for. Not
just in, oh, we've published a book, but in the
connection piece. And so like, you know, we're at
(08:19):
this event and, you know, Rebecca's asking us
questions and we're having a chance to respond and
share with the audience, related to our book and
related to our process. And there is nothing like
sharing from something that you've made or about
something that you've made, or about your creative
process or about your journey and looking out,
(08:43):
making eye contact with people in the audience and
seeing them respond in real time, in real life,
and having those moments where you're like, oh,
wait, wait, no, this is, this is landing. Like
someone out there is getting it. Someone out there
is resonating. They're saying, I'm with you.
(09:04):
Right. Even just non verbally. And I think, you
know, we say with you to each other. Yeah, all the
time. But to have someone looking back at us and
even just non verbally nodding and saying with
you. Or you know, moments where you see a woman
and she seems to be sitting a little taller, or
she seems to be, you know, dropping her shoulders
(09:27):
from her ears, or she seems to, you know, she's
nodding or she's nudging the woman next to her,
there's something happening energetically in the
room. And all of those years that we've been
swimming in the waters of this work, now we're
swimming in these waters with other people. And
(09:49):
that is a moment where it's like, oh my gosh, it's
happening. We're not alone. We haven't been alone
this whole time because we've had each other, but
now we're really not alone because all of these
other people are now starting to respond. And
that, like, I mean, yes, it's great when somebody
buys the book and yes, it's great when somebody is
(10:11):
excited about it. But there's something different
that happens when that exchange of energy takes
place. Because someone understands the thing that
you've made and it starts to mean something to
them. That is who. That's something that, like I
(10:35):
will never tire of. That's a moment that changes
you again and again and again.
>> Sarah (10:43):
Yeah, it's kind of addicting too. Like, I feel
like as we were, as the Q and A portion of that
event wrapped up and we had the opportunity to
sign some copies of those books and interact with
some of the readers and get to hear, hear where
they were coming from or even like some of what we
shared, how that had connected with them, or hear
(11:04):
some of their own stories or what they were
excited about in what they were expecting or
hoping from our book.
>> Corinne (11:10):
That.
>> Sarah (11:11):
That interaction, that connection made Skies feel
alive. It took it. It took it from words on a
page, and it made it so vibrant and immediate and
urgent and current and alive and that I'm like,
oh, that. I think. I think I want that forever.
Like, that feeling, that experience that. So that
(11:33):
was like.
>> Corinne (11:34):
When we say for sure, when we say that she's gonna
take flight like that. That's what. That's what we
mean. That's the Taking Flight is that connection
piece. Absolutely.
>> Sarah (11:46):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like just the beginning. And
I think that, we. Again, we've just been in. We've
been in the waiting kind of behind the scenes part
of the process for so long and really had just no
idea what this part would feel like. And already I
(12:08):
think we're both like, oh, we've got the bug now.
We, like, we want more of that. Okay, so, like,
let's do more of that. and it's just exciting and
painting, it also. I mean, there's this beautiful
experience of it, and there is the vulnerability
experience too. It's definitely like, yeah, here's
my heart and soul.
>> Corinne (12:26):
Soul.
>> Sarah (12:26):
And some of the most raw, lived experience of my
life thus far. Here you go. Let me just hand this
over to you in, you know, 250 or so.
>> Corinne (12:36):
Like, here. No big deal.
>> Sarah (12:37):
Just. There you go. take. Take it and. Meaning.
Make of it and. And interpret of it as you will.
And I'm out of control of that. That's so
incredibly vulnerable. And I. I have so much
respect for authors. It's like, I cognitively,
obviously have understood that and know that, but
this is the first time I'm personally experiencing
(12:58):
that and living through that. And it's. It's just
very real as well. So, I mean, it's a beautiful
thing, but it's. It's like anything else. It's a.
Both and it's. It's both at the same time.
>> Corinne (13:18):
Sa. It's amazing to me how really. I mean, because
(13:47):
m. We. We walked in as the. You know, as the,
outsiders, right? Like. Like, the other authors
were local, were from out of town. So everyone in
that room had some sort of connection either to
Naples or to the people in that room, with the
exception of us. So very few people in that room
(14:11):
knew our backstory going in. Most people are
coming in and they're hearing, you know, the.
They're hearing us share for the first time,
they're, they're getting the bits and pieces, in,
in real time with us. So I think what's
interesting is that it really doesn't take that
much vulnerability going first to say, to say,
(14:36):
here I'm going to open the door for someone to
then reciprocate and walk back through. And I
think that reciprocity that we often, you know,
remark about is something that we experienced that
day where we even just shared a little bit with
those prompts and with that audience in person
after person, you know, coming up through that
signing line is sharing from their own experience
(14:58):
or why they're there or why they're buying our
book or who they're buying our book from. And it
really, I mean, our book is very open and as
Rebeca likes to say, very raw. and yet it didn't
take that much to invite that audience in, to sit
(15:18):
with us, to be in that story with us, and then to
connect and share in return. And I just think that
that's such a good reminder that sometimes it just
takes a little bit of going first and that
reciprocity, finds her way, finds her way through
the door usually pretty quickly, I find. So that
(15:41):
was no exception. It's pretty beautiful.
>> Sarah (15:44):
Very beautiful. I loved the moment when we walked
in because we walked into this Barnes and Noble
and it's this gorgeous, massive Barnes and Noble
and we're trying to kind of find our way to the
back. Like, where's this event happening? We can
come around this corner and we see the three
tables with the gorgeous books there and look at
(16:05):
our table and there are these two adorable college
age women and they're holding our book and they're
like flipping through it and they're talking
amongst themselves. And Karine, you and I looked
at each other and immediately tears. And we had to
almost kind of run over around the corner behind a
stair corner, books. We were like geeking out and
(16:28):
crying and being like, oh my gosh, like, did you
see that? Like, it just like in the wild, this
moment. And it, it captured so purely just this
very organic moment of initiation. It felt like,
like this gorgeous moment that felt like such a
gift that we got to observe that it, it was such
(16:49):
a. I cherish it. Like, I'm just so happy that we
got to have that moment before we stepped into the
rest of the experience of that event. and we had
the opportunity to meet them, they'd come over to
us and, you know, are you the authors? And we got
to introduce Ourselves, and they shared some of
their story, and it was just a really beautiful
connection. And yeah, again, it's just that.
(17:12):
That's what's so fun now is that this book gets to
be a gateway into who knows how many new stories
will come from it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Corinne (17:23):
That was funny of us. We were, like, literally in
the corner, like, lurking. We were.
>> Sarah (17:28):
We were kind of spying, and we were, like, crying.
I mean, we clearly were the authors. They're like,
you guys be cool.
>> Corinne (17:33):
We're clearly first timers. We're like, who are
the two girls in the corner crying and talking to
their phone? But it was. It was perfect. I mean,
it was just like, I. I want to be a first timer. I
want to be an amateur. I. I want to be new here,
(17:54):
you know, I want to be just like every other girl.
Like, I'm not a pro. I'm not. I don't want to be
polished. I don't want to be too cool for school.
No, Zero, chill. I am not too cool for school.
Like, I, like, we did not know what to do. In
fact, I was actually filming that girl when.
Because I was, like, so freaking out. I was
filming her as she's looking at our book because
(18:15):
I'm like, look, somebody's looking at her book.
And then she turns and looks at me, and I'm like,
oh, gosh, now I look weird. I. She. She saw me
filming her. I mean, it was just like, what. I
mean, what can you do? What can you do? I love
that.
>> Sarah (18:30):
Okay, let's. Can we talk just a minute about that?
Like, I want to be like other girls. I. Yeah. Ah,
I just love that so much. And yeah, say if you. I,
I do. You happen to remember. I'm gonna look her
up if you can't. I, want to look her up really
quick just to introduce, though, like, that idea.
I'm gonna make sure my volume's off. I just want
to find her.
>> Corinne (18:49):
But she's the poet.
>> Sarah (18:52):
The poet. And she has Georgie. Georgie.
>> Corinne (18:55):
Yes, Georgie.
>> Sarah (18:56):
yes.
>> Corinne (18:57):
We love her monologue that she delivers.
>> Sarah (19:00):
That I think was. Was passed kind of through
Instagram, I think is how we. Yeah, some. One of
our friends passed it through.
>> Corinne (19:06):
The one where she's like, I love women. I love all
women. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (19:12):
It's so good trying to load it.
>> Corinne (19:15):
And it's just.
>> Sarah (19:16):
It to me, like, I love how she speaks to, like,
against, I guess, this, this myth of scarcity and
this myth of competition amongst women, and it's
like, it's just so gorgeous and and how she just
has this appreciation for, Just, like, the girly
things and the girlhood and kind of these things
(19:37):
that. That are, That she notices about women or
like that.
>> Corinne (19:41):
M. Yeah.
>> Sarah (19:41):
Ah, I've got it right here. I kind of want to play
it for a second.
>> Corinne (19:44):
Do you think it's just being obsessed with each
other and, like, hyping each other up and cheering
for each other and championing each other and all
of the good. Like, it's so much more fun to be. To
not be trying to be so cool and not be. Trying to
be so unique. You know, it's like. To be so
(20:04):
celebrating each other and, like, actually not
having any chill and being obsessed with each
other is so much more fun.
>> Sarah (20:12):
Just.
>> Corinne (20:12):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:13):
Getting rid of that myth and the illusion that,
like, we have it all. We all have it all figured
out and no one else does, and we've got to gate
that, and it's like, there's only so much to go
around, and it's. You know, we've got the. We've
got it all. I don't know. There's just, like.
That, That, to me, is so Number one. It's just not
(20:33):
true. It's just not true, and it's exhausting.
That's so.
>> Corinne (20:36):
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's like. What did you say? An
illusion? Is that what you said? The illusion?
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:41):
Yeah, it is. And it's. I mean, we're able. I think
it's. That's part of why social media can be so
dangerous, because it's very easy to craft that
illusion and maintain it. Although that's
exhausting, too. I. I just love that. I feel like
she just kind of rips the.
>> Corinne (20:56):
That.
>> Sarah (20:57):
That mask away and is like. No, like, it's. It's
so positive and so affirming and just such good
energy, and it's just like this whole other thing.
And. Yeah, like, let's, I hope it never gets old
to see people flipping through our books in a
bookstore. I hope we constantly are on the verge
of tears about that because we're just so blown
away and so in love with the entire experience
(21:19):
that this is of getting to be a writer and
interact with readers and share our work. I mean.
>> Corinne (21:25):
Yeah. And we are so obsessed with people flipping
through the pages of, other people's work, too.
You know, like, it was such an honor and so fun to
stand up there with Barbara and April and to stand
up next to Rebeca and hear her be telling her
story. Like, it was just so delicious and so much
(21:46):
fun. And you know, we talk about midlife, but we
also talk about girlhood. And what that was just
the juxtaposition of that was so on display that
day, of all of us just being giddy and yet all of
us like it, like, squarely and firmly rooted in
midlife, you know, like, this is not our first
rodeo and yet it is like all of our first rodeo at
(22:10):
the same time. So like it. And having so much fun
with it, not taking it too seriously, and yet
being really committed to this work. So like, all
of that both and is just so good. Are you gonna
(22:47):
play that or do you have Georgie queued up? Are
you gonna play? I have her queued up.
>> Sarah (22:50):
yeah, I'm kind of curious.
>> Corinne (22:52):
See if you can play it into the mic.
>> Sarah (22:54):
It's just gorgeous. Also, her voice is just so
beautiful. I think she could probably just like,
read my grocery list and it would be like, oh,
that's amazing.
>> Corinne (23:02):
Yep.
>> Sarah (23:04):
Okay, hold on. All right, I've got her.
>> Corinne (23:07):
Okay, what's her full handle? Just for anyone
listening. Okay.
>> Sarah (23:09):
Georgie. Georgie Jones. We can link it maybe.
Okay.
>> Corinne (23:14):
Yeah.
>> Speaker C (23:16):
And also, every woman that I haven't yet, and
also, every woman that I likely never will. So
when this fella's like, you know you're not like
other girls, or smirking like he's just unwrapped
a prize like he might have just found the
compliment of the century, I just want to scream,
(23:37):
oh, no, thank you.
>> Sarah (23:43):
No.
>> Speaker C (23:45):
All I've ever wanted to be is like other girls. I
want to wing my eyeliner. like other girls Drink
iced matcha like other girls know when I want to
dip my toe in the ritual more than I crave the
taste. I want to lean against a bar in a silk
dress like other girls. Press red lipstick onto a
napkin or do my makeup on a moving train, Let the
(24:07):
vibrations ratt my mascara into place. I want to
show my belly like other girls Even when it
trembles with doubt. I want denim swung low around
my hip bones. I want soft hands like other girls.
loads of silver rings and I want to never lose
them down the sink or at the bottom of a tote bag
(24:27):
filled with unfinished snacks and receipts. I want
to be like the women who can balance a coffee, a
meal deal their phone keys and a cute little
existential crisis all in one hand.
>> Corinne (24:41):
So good.
>> Sarah (24:42):
So good.
>> Corinne (24:43):
Yeah. Cute little existential crisis all in one
hand.
>> Sarah (24:47):
I mean, just like other girls. Yeah.
>> Corinne (24:51):
She's like, oh, no, thank you. Oh, no, thank you.
All I've ever wanted is to be like other girls.
Yes.
>> Sarah (24:59):
Yeah. So beautiful.
>> Corinne (25:01):
Yep.
>> Sarah (25:02):
It's part of Return. It honestly, part of what
we're sharing today. We get to share a little
reading from part three of Skies, which we call
Return. And in the journey that we walk through,
of ruin, Rise, Return, this. This process of
(25:24):
reclamation, really finding ourselves that we've
walked through. The mess, the residual pain, of
trauma, and then the aftermath. The long, many,
many, many desert trails that we've wandered in
search of our healing. And the return is this
(25:50):
finding of self and not necessarily, here's a bow.
Everything's fixed and fine and. Or like. And now
we're this new shiny, happy thing. It's
reclamation for a reason. It's a returning for a
reason because we are still who we are. And so
much of the work is going to see about a girl.
(26:11):
It's going back and taking her back and bringing
her with us and that. But that is so much of my, I
think my experience of return. So many of my
pieces within this section speak to that.
>> Corinne (26:27):
That.
>> Sarah (26:28):
Let's go get her. Where is she? Oh, yeah, I know
her. They didn't take that from me. She's still
with me. How about for you?
>> Corinne (26:35):
It's the, coming home, right? It's the coming home
to ourselves, which again, yeah, that's not always
shiny, it's not always finished, but it's ours.
And when we, when we come, through the healing,
through the rebuilding, and we come home to
(26:57):
ourselves when we make peace with all the girls
we've been before, and then we know that all of
them belong and we have that compassion for
ourselves and for all the other girls in our
lives. Right. All the other women, all of, all of
(27:19):
the people we're in community with from our past,
our present, and then everyone that is in our
future, like that is the return. I think the
return is also ongoing. It's an ongoing practice.
So Return is where it gets really beautiful. And
so I think, you know, ruin. We're always like,
(27:41):
okay, take it slow for the reader. Go at your own
pace. You might have to put it down and come back
to it. That's okay. Rise is that healing and
finding our way through after we've, you know,
after we've left and after we've come home to the
desert. And then the Return is where we start to
see that pink sunrise light. So I always feel like
(28:05):
Return has a little bit of a shimmer. And, you
know, today I've got on my pink sequins, you've
got on your black sequins, and I feel like that
just. That feels accurate for return. Like, it's
just a little. There's a little shimmer, you know,
in. In our peripheral vision. There's a little
glow in this part of the book. And it's not a
(28:25):
finishing. It's not. It's not done, but it's a.
There's a little bit of hope. There's a little bit
of light on the horizon in this part of the book
that feels really good. And, yeah, I'm excited to
read from that today.
>> Sarah (28:37):
Yeah. Do you want to jump in? I'm excited to. To
hear what piece you're reading from today.
>> Corinne (28:44):
Yeah, well, I, can go first if you want me to. I'm
actually gonna read. I was gonna read from
Canyonlands, but I decided to read from Sanctuary
today. Yeah. So there's a little sneak peek into a
(29:05):
couple chapter titles. Sanctuary is a little look
at the religious tradition that I grew up with
when I was young. And it's a sweet bit of
reclamation. There's. There's history, there's
(29:26):
lore, there's some old sensory pieces in this,
chapter for me that, are. They're pieces that I
get to keep even, you know, as we return to
ourselves, we don't keep everything right. Not
everything survives. But there are pieces of our
(29:47):
journey and of ourselves along the way that we do
get to keep. And I love this piece because it
reminds me that for everything that I have set
down, for everything that I have not picked back
up, there are those little pieces of myself and
those little pieces of my own history that I still
carry. And I love that. So I have an affection for
(30:11):
this piece, that's. That's unique. All right, so
(30:48):
I'm going to read from the beginning of the
Sanctuary chapter. Nostalgia wafts thick through
the sea of wooden pews parted down the middle by a
single aisle leading to the symbolic crucified
Jesus suspended above the altar of my childhood.
(31:09):
The scent of aged brick and concrete floors and
wood polish and candle wax greet me at the door
like an old friend. The low wooden railing I once
rested my elbows upon while kneeling for communion
as a girl has been removed. I wonder if the
parishioners even go forward for communion
(31:31):
anymore, or if they just pass a tray of tiny cups
and wafers the size of Chiclets, the kind I saw in
communion kits on the clearance table the last
time I set foot in a Christian bookstore. I can
still see the golden chalice being tipped to my
little lips for a sip of wine and the kind eyes of
(31:52):
the volunteer who served every week. It was the
80s and I recall rumors of a virus and people in
the fellowship hall whispering that he shouldn't
be serving communion. All I knew was his eyes were
gentle, and I never felt afraid. In the 90s there
(32:13):
would be other rumors about our priest that made
people in the courtyard say he shouldn't be
priesting anymore. All I knew was that, his eyes
twinkled, and I could never put my finger on the
reason. It made me nervous. My childhood Episcopal
Church sits dark, but it's still open on this
(32:35):
weekday afternoon. I find it comforting that
spaces like this are here, even if no one walks
through their door. The only light peeking in from
the square stained glass windows running high
along the high walls just below the swooping
arched beams supporting the concave, a frame
ceiling designed to switch sweep the eye and the
(32:56):
spirit skyward. I remember loving those dark wood
beams. My youngest brother always said they looked
like two quarter pipe skate ramps meeting in the
middle at their peak. I always thought they looked
like the inverted rib cage of a whale. As a girl I
dreamt I was floating on my back, relaxed in the
belly of the beautiful beast, lulled by the ebb
(33:20):
and flow cadence of the congregation reciting the
prayers and creeds. The parish vicar pops in from
the foyer to welcome me and offers to turn on the
lights. I thank him and share an abbreviated
version of my connection to the church, which
endears me to him and moves him to give me the
room in solitude. I make myself at home in the
(33:42):
back row, and the vision of my young self floats
in through my olfactory senses materialize,
materializing next to me in the pew. She was so
cute, finding her footing early on, her first
efforts to pull open her own ribcage of faith in
order to float on her back and breathe free. 13
(34:04):
was the year she learned to stand on her own. No
longer in elementary school, no longer the
teacher's daughter, she had to figure out her
life. She could be anyone. Maybe if she had the
guts, she could even be herself. So I like the
(34:27):
beginning of that piece just because it sets a
scene and there's a lot more to that chapter that
follows, and there's a lot more reflection and a
lot that has to do with my younger self, and it's
a piece even about my mom, and I love that about
it. I love that it's a piece about my childhood
(34:48):
and a connection to my older self. But I love the
setting of the scene and that sensory experience
that we have and how we can have a moment in time
and we can have those memories that take us back
just like that. Like a scent, right? Or a certain
space that can take us right back. And I like that
(35:12):
that is something that I can still carry. I can
still carry an affection for a time, a season, a
space. Even if it was wrought with its own
problematic elements, even if there are reasons
why it's not part of my current reality and part
of my current life. It's still something that is
(35:33):
sweet. It's still something that I look back on
fondly. And it was formative and it was my 13 year
old self. It was her. It was my first time
standing on my own two feet and figuring out who I
was. So I, I love that piece and I like, I like
the direction that it goes. I'm excited for the
reader to follow that one through.
>> Sarah (35:54):
I love that piece too. I'm so glad you shared that
one. I always, I mean, you do such a good job of
describing the space. I love it feels like we're
right there with you. And I always love how you
describe the ceiling. I feel like I'm almost like
underwater and if I lift my arm and stretch my
fingertips, I could just like scrape against the
ribcage of the whale. And I, I love that of all
(36:17):
the places that you could have taken us to meet
your 13 year old self, you took us back to the
sanctuary of, of the church, which, especially
even now, like thinking through, okay, for what
you shared in ruin here on this podcast and what
you shared in rise for the listener here to be
(36:37):
hearing you speak with even like a tenderness and
affection to be choosing to place yourself back in
a scene in it within a church building. I'm
curious if you can speak to even like what brought
you back into that space. What about that, scene
inspired you? Like this was a story you wanted to
(36:57):
tell and the moments that you draw from within
this story are so beautiful and you're such an
incredible writer. You really could have pulled
from a different scene. You could have told us a
different moment in time. Like you picked this
one. And I know that there's purpose behind that
and I'm wondering if you could share a little bit
behind that.
>> Corinne (37:16):
Yeah, I think the sensory experience that precedes
my, my first moment of protest, honestly be as a
13 year old, in those pews, you know, figuring out
who I was. It was the first moment, it was the
(37:36):
first space where not only, you know, do I talk
about, you know, How I was raised and, and my mom
and the, the way that she raised me to find my
voice and use my voice and, you know, figure out
what I believed and all of those things. That was
the first space that I got to practice that. And
so in that church and in those pews was the first
(37:57):
place that I practiced a little bit of protest and
opening up my own rib cage and figuring out how to
breathe free. And that's part of the story that I
tell in that chapter. But I think what's key? And
so I love that you asked that question because I
think what's key? And the reason that I shared
from the beginning of that chapter, which is maybe
unusual for me, is because I think that the
(38:19):
sensory experience that precedes that is the
sweetness. And I often tend to maybe look for the
punch in a story. I often tend to look for maybe
the sharper edge or the, one liner. And I think
that this beginning piece, even the part that I
(38:43):
left off, that, you know, I might even have the
guts to, to be myself, that is the, I think that's
the, that's the lead that heads into that first
place of protest for me, which is more of an
expected space, I think for me is of course I was
(39:03):
13 and protesting in the back pew of that little
church, you know, and dressed in all black, which
is part of the story that you'll read in that
chapter, you know, when, when you get to it. But.
And that, that's funny. And I love that part of
myself and for this, for my 48 year old self, to
look back at that and to remember the smell of the
(39:25):
candle wax and to remember the smell of the wood
of the pews and to remember the light coming in
through the stained glass window. To remember the
sweetness, not just the protest. Is that both. And
that's the midlife and the girlhood together
returning.
>> Sarah (39:45):
That's so beautiful.
>> Corinne (39:46):
Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
>> Sarah (39:48):
Thank you for sharing that.
>> Corinne (39:50):
Yeah, that was a good prompt. Thanks for asking.
All right. I know what you're reading from. I'm
excited for this one.
>> Sarah (40:00):
I'm going to be reading actually from the, the
actual book.
>> Corinne (40:04):
Love it.
>> Sarah (40:05):
If you hear a, if you hear a page, flip.
>> Corinne (40:07):
A page turning. What? A page turning.
>> Sarah (40:10):
Actually, the book. There she is. Yep, yep. So
we'll see how it goes. It might, it might be a
little noisy, but it's a good thing. so this
chapter is called Kachina Woman, and I am dropping
us in. This is actually closer. Toward the end of
the of the chapter, love dropping in. Yeah, I'm
(40:30):
maybe not going to give a lot of context because
otherwise I'm pretty much telling you the entire
chapter and I'm not going to do that. but I think
it will stand on its own. I'm hoping. The reason I
wanted to share this piece was in really just
thinking about return, one of the elements that I
don't think I mentioned even earlier was like also
(40:51):
in the returning, there's kind of the legacy and
the handing down and like the collective that that
is affected like as we return to ourselves that
there's this ripple effect that, that others are
returned to self to or the invitation and like
within our family. And so thinking about my kids
and what type of legacy, what type of story am I
(41:15):
handing to them as I'm looking at my own 12 year
old self and these other versions of me throughout
different chapters that I write about as well and
looking at my kids entering these ages and going,
oh my goodness, like of course we can't prevent
all bad things from ever happening to our kids, of
course. And honestly we wouldn't want to because
(41:37):
we want them to grow and be strong and develop and
all those things. We want them to know how to
navigate hard things. That's not the point is like
never go through anything hard but. And yet what
type of scaffolding am I building into their
childhoods that I wish had been there for me?
Like, what's the truest truth that I'm building in
(41:58):
for them that I had to go back and like claw my
way to that I had to go back and return to. So
this, this is kind of a picture of maybe a moment
of realization of that returning that is for me,
but that also rips through me and reaches beyond
me to also my kids. So it was a Sunday when I
(42:54):
pulled up to the parking lot of the Apache Wash
Preserve. I went back to the trail where I first
gave myself permission to dream. Beyond the walls
of the church, I brought Mercy and Emerson with me
because I wanted them to see it too, feel it too,
love it too. They ran ahead a few paces, talking
(43:15):
and laughing at inside jokes. I looked around and
inhaled deeply. I felt so full, so abundant, so
incredibly alive. I drew upon the awe.
>> Corinne (43:28):
Ah.
>> Sarah (43:28):
I felt standing before the flute man and kachina
woman and the holiness of that moment. God was
there. I remembered the feel of my feet trembling
on the holy ground of my kitchen as my inner parts
returned. God was there. I bent down and broke
small branches off the brittle bushes that lined
(43:49):
the dirt, pulling narrow yellow petals from their
stalks. One by one, I watched as they were swept
up by the wind. God is here. All at once, I was
overcome with gratitude for the desert and the
healing I'd found within her expanse. I'd become
so deeply woven into her landscape. Iron mud
(44:11):
dripping from my skin, creosote and sage leaves
strewn through my hair, golden honey on my tongue.
I felt charged from the inside out by her
Technicolor sunsets, By that exact moment when the
shale mountainsides blink purple and the skies are
so electric it nearly hurts to look at. Mercy's
(44:32):
laugh cuts through the rabbit trail in my mind.
She and Emerson wandered the path up ahead as a
flash of clarity suddenly washed over me. No more
boxes. No more shame. Not for me and not for them.
Watching my kids leaping and laughing and free, I
whispered a prayer in the wind. May they never put
(44:56):
themselves in a box. My cheeks flushed at the
thought of those gorgeous, big hearted creatures
ever believing they were broken, unworthy, in need
of saving. I made a vow. No longer would I be
concerned with handing them a, boxed theology,
(45:16):
using shame and fear to keep them in line,
ordered, small and easy to manage. No, what I
wanted was their wild. I wanted it all. This was
the rebellion. This was the legacy. No more
crawling on our knees to be good. No more
(45:37):
pretending. Yep, there we have it. There she is.
>> Corinne (45:48):
So this piece and the way that you talk about the
boxes, I'm really excited for the reader to read
the entire piece because it's such a powerful
device and it's also actually just a really
familiar metaphor for so many of us to feel like
(46:09):
we've been put in a box. maybe you could speak a
little bit more without, you know, giving us the
entire chapter. Maybe you could speak a little bit
more to the ways that you were able to set down
the dichotomy of God and theology to encompass the
(46:36):
rebellion. This bigger idea that one did not
require the other, that process of you being able
to say, God is here, God is here, God is here, and
no more boxes. So looking at your kids, maybe is
how that was so clear. but maybe, yeah. So I know
(47:01):
that the boxes is something that you flesh out
more in the chapter, but I'm just thinking about
how you started off with that piece of God is
here, God is here, God is here. But even that
idea, you're obviously taking us to a place that
is so much more expansive than maybe it once was.
(47:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:23):
There's a chapter in, in Rise that I write Called
Super Bloom. And that one to me is really the
beginning. It's like a glimpse into really the
beginning of what was really, I guess, my
deconstruction, process, which just the very
beginning of those inklings just represents the
(47:43):
early, you know, do I dare. Do I dare to think
that God could exist outside of what I've been
told God is and where, where I can find God and
what God needs to be and what my. What I need to
be in order to experience what that God is? and
(48:04):
the process, you know, the expanse between Super
Bloom to Kachina Woman is wide. Like, that is the
journey. There's a lot of life that happens, a lot
of story that happens between there. That got me
to a point where.
>> Corinne (48:20):
I.
>> Sarah (48:22):
Easily and, and holistically want, want that type
of expansive, view and understanding not only for
myself, but for my kids. And I do think sometimes
it's easier for us. I'll speak for myself as a
parent. what can feel really gray and hard to
define for myself, maybe, like, here's a boundary
(48:45):
or here's a violation. I'm maybe willing to put up
with a lot more for myself. But if that same
boundary or I witnessed occurring to my child, I.
It's suddenly very black and white. Like it
becomes very clear very quickly. That's not okay.
Or, nope, there's a line, you know. And so I think
practicing the returning was so much of learning
(49:07):
how to like, love myself with that same type of
fierceness, like, to. To respect myself with that
same, like, type of clarity. And that's so much of
what got mucky and so much of what, in my own
personal experience, religion made really
difficult to understand and know the sound of my
(49:28):
own voice. And that's a lot of what I had to go
back and find again and return to. And so I think
that again, there's not like a. This is how I did
it, right? It's just like that was the slow
relearning, the slow reclaiming, the slow
returning that was happening kind m of all along.
(49:50):
The more distance I got from that muckiness, that
fuzziness that was my experience within religion,
the more I started to recognize the sound of my
own voice. And within that, what I understood to
be maybe a bigger understanding of would be what
(50:11):
God's voice would be or this big, this bigger than
me voice.
>> Corinne (50:18):
I love at the end of that how you use the word
rebellion in the same space and like, swirling
with, with the sense of wild and the sense of
beauty and the sense of, a Child's joy and the
(50:41):
sense of this big, expansive. They're running
through the desert, they're on the trail. You
know, this. It's childhood, right, where it's
almost like you put that word in there that is
typically so pejorative, especially when we're
talking about things of, faith or religion or
(51:02):
spirit. Like, the rebellion is actually. I feel
like you kind of turned it on its head right there
at the very end, which I feel like is playful and
beautiful and artistic, which, of course. Of
course, that's what you did with it. but again,
(51:23):
it's. It's hard to. It's. It's easy to, It's easy
to argue that word when we're looking at bullet
points, but when we have the image of two
beautiful children running free, it challenges us
to see that word in a more expansive and a more
(51:47):
free way. And I think, just like you said, hearing
our own voice, that's what that made me think of.
It's like, oh, what if rebellion is a little bit
more free for me too? Not just for kids, but for
me too. So I love that you put that right there at
the very end, and you leave us with that right
there at the very end. On, purpose. I know.
>> Sarah (52:09):
On purpose.
>> Corinne (52:10):
I know.
>> Sarah (52:10):
Yes, I know. You know.
>> Corinne (52:12):
I know. You know. and then also between Superbloom
and Kachina is like a literal desert. Of course.
>> Sarah (52:22):
I mean, a literal desert.
>> Corinne (52:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:23):
It's so true.
>> Corinne (52:25):
I know that there's never a how to. There's never
the bullet points of this is how you resolve your
ideas of God. but there was a literal desert
between those two stories. I'm really looking
forward to the reader being able to find their way
through and find themselves in your desert,
(52:46):
because our deserts are the same, and yet they're
very different. And so on that journey, and even
through that chapter of Kachina Woman, I'm really
looking forward to how the reader finds
themselves.
>> Sarah (52:59):
Yeah. Thank you for saying that. And I love that
because, you're right. It's like the desert is a
main character in Skies, for sure, but it's almost
like she's. Well, she is so multifaceted, and
she's got all of these different versions of her.
And who she is to you is different than who she is
to me. And I love that because the reader's gonna
(53:21):
get this, like, all these different versions of.
Because of course, like, that was. That's true.
>> Corinne (53:27):
Well, and also, like Kachina Woman, here's just a
little bit of Backstory for the reader. Kachina
Woman is a trail.
So there is the chance that a reader might find
themselves on that trail someday. The same way
that my friend told me about that trail and I
(53:47):
found myself on that trail. And then I told you
about that trail and then you found yourself on
that trail. And all of us had our own different
experiences on that trail.
>> Sarah (53:56):
Yeah.
>> Corinne (53:56):
so it's like. And we have all of our own different
experiences in this same desert. And your
experience on that Kachina Woman trail is what the
reader gets to walk through. And then undoubtedly
there is going to be a reader that finds
themselves in that red dirt with that dust on
(54:20):
their shoes, having their own experience.
>> Sarah (54:22):
Oh, I hope so. I hope so.
>> Corinne (54:24):
With their own story. Oh yeah. Ah, I love. I hope
we get to hear about that. Yes, I hope we get to
hear about that.
>> Sarah (54:30):
Whoever does that, please, please, please tell us
that you did it. Please just give us a little
sneak.
>> Corinne (54:35):
Just a little. Just a little sneak peek. Please
come back and tell us. But it's different. For
it's different every single time. Every. Every
single one of us. Every trail, every space, every
story, every story. Experience.
>> Sarah (54:49):
Yep.
>> Corinne (54:50):
Yep. But that's that collective that you're
talking about. Like, we hand. It's. It's the
handing hand over hand. Right. Whether it's
passing, the passing the plates at the table.
Right. Or it's the inheritance. it's the theology
that you're not willing to hand, the harmful
theology or the beautiful, the beautiful spiritual
(55:13):
teaching that you are wanting to hand. Right. It's
that collective passing. And I think that it's
also true in space and time and place where we
hand each other something geographic and we're
acknowledging when we're a guest on a specific
(55:36):
land where, you know, we get to experience a place
as a guest, we get to experience a place, on our
own, in our own way. The stories that belong to
that land. Anyway, I just. I could geek out on
that.
>> Sarah (55:50):
I do. I same.
>> Corinne (55:53):
We're like braiding it all together.
>> Sarah (55:55):
Like, oh, I just love it.
>> Corinne (55:56):
Keep going, keep going. But I feel like we should
say.
>> Sarah (56:01):
That Skies is available on bookshop.org because
that was a really exciting thing. It's available
on all platforms pre order.
>> Corinne (56:08):
You probably should say that. Yeah.
>> Sarah (56:09):
But like, we are getting messages from people that
Sky's is shipping now. If you Pre order from
bookshop.org it's shipping to you. So if you are
like not wanting to wait until Release date of
October 21st and you are wanting that book in your
hot little hands sooner you can go to bookshop.org
and it'll say pre order, but if you, if you buy
(56:32):
it, it will ship out. And that's just so exciting.
And I don't know how that all works, but I'm like,
oh my gosh, that's amazing.
>> Corinne (56:39):
It's, it's magic, it's sorcery. I don't know.
>> Sarah (56:42):
The magic we don't need to know about. It's fine.
So yeah, our pay grade, but yeah, we're going to
stick to writing.
>> Corinne (56:52):
Oh, this is good. I can't believe we've seen
shared from each of our three sections.
>> Sarah (56:56):
It feels good. Feels good. Now we get to just
celebrate. I'm going to come back next time with
more sequins. I think sequins are forever.
>> Corinne (57:04):
I know sequins are forever. I think next time
we're gonna do a little bit of lore, I think,
right?
>> Sarah (57:11):
Yeah. It's gonna be a party.
>> Corinne (57:13):
We're gonna, we're gonna be so book obsessed. As
if we haven't been already.
>> Sarah (57:18):
All things. The skies are full of us. All things.
Yep.
>> Corinne (57:21):
All things.
>> Sarah (57:23):
Till then.
>> Rebeca (57:39):
You've been listening to Spiritual Pirate with
Sarah Carter and Corrine Sharp on the one C Story
Network. For more information about this and all
of your stories, please visit justonesee.com
that's J u s t o n e C dot com.
>> Corinne (57:55):
because that's what we do is we dance on, on our
podcast,
>> Singer (57:58):
the 1C Story Network. For the love of stories.
For all the match Strikers, this is Spiritual
Pyro. Well, hello again.
>> Corinne (00:28):
Hello. We're so sparkly today.
>> Sarah (00:30):
We are sparkly. We've got our sequins forever.
>> Corinne (00:35):
Yes, Sequins are forever.
>> Sarah (00:39):
In honor of the album.
>> Corinne (00:41):
We were up so late last night. We were.
>> Sarah (00:44):
We were up late, and we were amped. We were, like,
so excited.
>> Corinne (00:48):
I woke up this morning.
>> Sarah (00:51):
Extra tired. Like, what did I do last night? What
did I do in my pajamas with my sequin blazer?
Watching live streaming with you, the. The Taylor
album, and then pausing and then debriefing and
geeking out over every single moment of the song.
>> Corinne (01:09):
Every single one. I know. That was so fun, though.
I mean, but we. I mean, you know it. And then
talking about it forever as if we were podcasting
about every single song.
>> Sarah (01:20):
I know. We have to figure out how to do something
with that, because we did screen record, and if we
can, figure out the technology. We have to figure
out how to do something with that.
>> Corinne (01:27):
if we can do that.
>> Sarah (01:29):
We did, like, I think maybe five songs, because
the first five hours later for me. And so I. I
mean, I rallied.
>> Corinne (01:36):
You rallied. A certain point, I was like, girl,
also, we still only. We still only have the free
zoom, so we. We had to have two separate zoom
sessions, and it was a bridge too far to try to go
for a third.
>> Sarah (01:51):
There's just only so much we can do. Yeah, we're
still midlife girlies. We gotta call it at a
certain.
>> Corinne (01:57):
Point, and we can't pay for Zoom. We won't do it.
>> Sarah (02:00):
No, we certainly could. We choose not to. It's too
many subscriptions. It's too many paywalls. It's a
principal thing. Like, no Zoom. Stop it.
>> Corinne (02:11):
Can't do it. Stop it. Just let us talk. Just. Just
let us talk.
>> Sarah (02:16):
What's that scene in, Bridesmaids when she's on
the plane and he's. She's like, pushes the, The.
What is it like the curtain from. From first class
separating. I think she goes like, this should be
open. It's civil rights.
>> Corinne (02:32):
Zone. Should be free. It's civil rights.
>> Sarah (02:36):
Science.
>> Corinne (02:38):
Oh, my gosh. That's a perfect scene. That's a good
gift.
>> Sarah (02:41):
Oh, my gosh. Okay, so today's gonna be so fun.
Number one, there's, like, we said, the album
coming out. we get to talk about how amazing last
weekend was for us because we had a very sparkly,
fun author experience.
>> Corinne (02:58):
I'm still not over it. I can't, like, I can't
believe that was just Last weekend. Right. It
feels like.
>> Sarah (03:05):
I mean, it feels like so long ago in that we had
been counting down the days for so long leading
up, to what was this incredible Rebeca Books
launch event in Naples, Florida. So I hopped on a
plane from Chicago, Illinois. Karine flew in from
Phoenix, and we flew down to the most gorgeous
(03:26):
little beach town that we really didn't.
>> Corinne (03:30):
That we're now obsessed with.
>> Sarah (03:31):
Like, it was so cute. We were like, oh, we should
have tacked on a couple days. Rookie mistake. It
was.
>> Corinne (03:37):
So we are amateurs. Yeah. I think that's what
people do. They travel for business, and they,
like, they have a couple days to enjoy the place
that we're at. That they're at. And we did not do
that. No, we're.
>> Sarah (03:48):
We are babies. We're like little mini babies,
learning as we go. We're taking.
>> Corinne (03:52):
We need training. We need somebody to train us.
We're gonna get better at this. Honey babies.
>> Sarah (03:57):
Honey babies. But for now, that's how we did it.
But we had the most incredible experience. We got
to meet some fellow Rebeca books authors. we went
out to a really incredible brunch, this iconic
restaurant.
>> Corinne (04:12):
we had cake for breakfast. Cake for breakfast. We
were celebrating Rebeca and all of the hard work
that she's been putting in for so long, all of it
coming to fruition. And, I mean, we got to
celebrate our book, but really, it was all of us
authors, you know, getting to fan the flame of
this dream that she has had for all these years.
(04:35):
And we, you know, we have been this first cohort
of women, all of us over 40, that she has been
championing the stories of. And, you know, we're
the first. Were the first line of Rebeca books in
this fall launch. And so we got to be
representation for this ethos that she has created
(04:59):
and that she's launched into the world. All these
women with these powerful stories and these
powerful voices. It was just a real honor to be a
part of that lineup.
>> Sarah (05:10):
That is so true. If that's. That is what felt. It
just was. It was overwhelming in the best way. And
really, to be amongst such company and such
stories, to. To be a part of something where each.
Each woman, you know, as we kind of got to know
them and hear. Hear what their book's about, it's
like, oh, my God, they've lived these incredible
(05:31):
lives, and they've found a way to communicate
them. And, you know, each one just so inspiring,
and it takes a lot to find the strength and
courage to live through a hard thing and as we
know it takes a lot then to find a way to put that
into words. And, and then as we're learning right
now in real time, it's one thing to write the book
(05:53):
that's its own really hard thing. This, this part
of the, the author experience that we're learning
about right now, this part where the book is
coming out into the world and now we're, people
are reading it and starting to get to know it and
we're starting to be able to talk about it more
and share more and interact more with the words
(06:14):
and the stories that we've been living in. But in
real time and in public, it's like, oh my gosh,
okay, now we're talking about it and it's becoming
bigger and more. And the stories that are ours now
we're getting to share with readers who, are
finding their own stories within the pages. And
it's, it's what we've been dreaming of for so
long. It's just, I feel like I had so many pinch
(06:35):
me moments throughout the weekend where I had to
really remind myself this is like, slow down. It's
like Ferris Bueller, slow down. Don't miss it.
Like you're living in that moment right now. Like
if you, you know, if you don't, if you don't slow
down, you're gonna miss it. And that, whoa, like
this is the dream. It's happening right now that,
that we are getting to. We've so many moments
(06:58):
isolated in our little reading writing rooms, like
reading through edits and thinking, someday maybe
it's going to come out and then maybe someone will
read it someday and maybe it'll encourage someone
or inspire someone someday. And it really feels
overwhelming in the best way to be at this point
(07:18):
now. And yeah, just being able to be a part of the
event that was held at Barnes and Noble there in
Naples, walking into a bookstore, seeing our book
on a table with a synopsis of the story and us as
authors and just feeling like, oh, wow, this is
real. She's a real girl.
>> Corinne (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, those pinch me moments. And we keep
laughing and saying, it's happening, it's
happening. And you know, I think the writing part,
we know how to do that, right? Like, we've been
practicing that for years and years and years.
We've been walking on our own and with each other
through that process and through that practice for
(07:59):
a long time now. But this part is new and it's new
musculature, but it's also the, it's the
actualization of what we've been hoping for. Not
just in, oh, we've published a book, but in the
connection piece. And so like, you know, we're at
(08:19):
this event and, you know, Rebecca's asking us
questions and we're having a chance to respond and
share with the audience, related to our book and
related to our process. And there is nothing like
sharing from something that you've made or about
something that you've made, or about your creative
process or about your journey and looking out,
(08:43):
making eye contact with people in the audience and
seeing them respond in real time, in real life,
and having those moments where you're like, oh,
wait, wait, no, this is, this is landing. Like
someone out there is getting it. Someone out there
is resonating. They're saying, I'm with you.
(09:04):
Right. Even just non verbally. And I think, you
know, we say with you to each other. Yeah, all the
time. But to have someone looking back at us and
even just non verbally nodding and saying with
you. Or you know, moments where you see a woman
and she seems to be sitting a little taller, or
she seems to be, you know, dropping her shoulders
(09:27):
from her ears, or she seems to, you know, she's
nodding or she's nudging the woman next to her,
there's something happening energetically in the
room. And all of those years that we've been
swimming in the waters of this work, now we're
swimming in these waters with other people. And
(09:49):
that is a moment where it's like, oh my gosh, it's
happening. We're not alone. We haven't been alone
this whole time because we've had each other, but
now we're really not alone because all of these
other people are now starting to respond. And
that, like, I mean, yes, it's great when somebody
buys the book and yes, it's great when somebody is
(10:11):
excited about it. But there's something different
that happens when that exchange of energy takes
place. Because someone understands the thing that
you've made and it starts to mean something to
them. That is who. That's something that, like I
(10:35):
will never tire of. That's a moment that changes
you again and again and again.
>> Sarah (10:43):
Yeah, it's kind of addicting too. Like, I feel
like as we were, as the Q and A portion of that
event wrapped up and we had the opportunity to
sign some copies of those books and interact with
some of the readers and get to hear, hear where
they were coming from or even like some of what we
shared, how that had connected with them, or hear
(11:04):
some of their own stories or what they were
excited about in what they were expecting or
hoping from our book.
>> Corinne (11:10):
That.
>> Sarah (11:11):
That interaction, that connection made Skies feel
alive. It took it. It took it from words on a
page, and it made it so vibrant and immediate and
urgent and current and alive and that I'm like,
oh, that. I think. I think I want that forever.
Like, that feeling, that experience that. So that
(11:33):
was like.
>> Corinne (11:34):
When we say for sure, when we say that she's gonna
take flight like that. That's what. That's what we
mean. That's the Taking Flight is that connection
piece. Absolutely.
>> Sarah (11:46):
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like just the beginning. And
I think that, we. Again, we've just been in. We've
been in the waiting kind of behind the scenes part
of the process for so long and really had just no
idea what this part would feel like. And already I
(12:08):
think we're both like, oh, we've got the bug now.
We, like, we want more of that. Okay, so, like,
let's do more of that. and it's just exciting and
painting, it also. I mean, there's this beautiful
experience of it, and there is the vulnerability
experience too. It's definitely like, yeah, here's
my heart and soul.
>> Corinne (12:26):
Soul.
>> Sarah (12:26):
And some of the most raw, lived experience of my
life thus far. Here you go. Let me just hand this
over to you in, you know, 250 or so.
>> Corinne (12:36):
Like, here. No big deal.
>> Sarah (12:37):
Just. There you go. take. Take it and. Meaning.
Make of it and. And interpret of it as you will.
And I'm out of control of that. That's so
incredibly vulnerable. And I. I have so much
respect for authors. It's like, I cognitively,
obviously have understood that and know that, but
this is the first time I'm personally experiencing
(12:58):
that and living through that. And it's. It's just
very real as well. So, I mean, it's a beautiful
thing, but it's. It's like anything else. It's a.
Both and it's. It's both at the same time.
>> Corinne (13:18):
Sa. It's amazing to me how really. I mean, because
(13:47):
m. We. We walked in as the. You know, as the,
outsiders, right? Like. Like, the other authors
were local, were from out of town. So everyone in
that room had some sort of connection either to
Naples or to the people in that room, with the
exception of us. So very few people in that room
(14:11):
knew our backstory going in. Most people are
coming in and they're hearing, you know, the.
They're hearing us share for the first time,
they're, they're getting the bits and pieces, in,
in real time with us. So I think what's
interesting is that it really doesn't take that
much vulnerability going first to say, to say,
(14:36):
here I'm going to open the door for someone to
then reciprocate and walk back through. And I
think that reciprocity that we often, you know,
remark about is something that we experienced that
day where we even just shared a little bit with
those prompts and with that audience in person
after person, you know, coming up through that
signing line is sharing from their own experience
(14:58):
or why they're there or why they're buying our
book or who they're buying our book from. And it
really, I mean, our book is very open and as
Rebeca likes to say, very raw. and yet it didn't
take that much to invite that audience in, to sit
(15:18):
with us, to be in that story with us, and then to
connect and share in return. And I just think that
that's such a good reminder that sometimes it just
takes a little bit of going first and that
reciprocity, finds her way, finds her way through
the door usually pretty quickly, I find. So that
(15:41):
was no exception. It's pretty beautiful.
>> Sarah (15:44):
Very beautiful. I loved the moment when we walked
in because we walked into this Barnes and Noble
and it's this gorgeous, massive Barnes and Noble
and we're trying to kind of find our way to the
back. Like, where's this event happening? We can
come around this corner and we see the three
tables with the gorgeous books there and look at
(16:05):
our table and there are these two adorable college
age women and they're holding our book and they're
like flipping through it and they're talking
amongst themselves. And Karine, you and I looked
at each other and immediately tears. And we had to
almost kind of run over around the corner behind a
stair corner, books. We were like geeking out and
(16:28):
crying and being like, oh my gosh, like, did you
see that? Like, it just like in the wild, this
moment. And it, it captured so purely just this
very organic moment of initiation. It felt like,
like this gorgeous moment that felt like such a
gift that we got to observe that it, it was such
(16:49):
a. I cherish it. Like, I'm just so happy that we
got to have that moment before we stepped into the
rest of the experience of that event. and we had
the opportunity to meet them, they'd come over to
us and, you know, are you the authors? And we got
to introduce Ourselves, and they shared some of
their story, and it was just a really beautiful
connection. And yeah, again, it's just that.
(17:12):
That's what's so fun now is that this book gets to
be a gateway into who knows how many new stories
will come from it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Corinne (17:23):
That was funny of us. We were, like, literally in
the corner, like, lurking. We were.
>> Sarah (17:28):
We were kind of spying, and we were, like, crying.
I mean, we clearly were the authors. They're like,
you guys be cool.
>> Corinne (17:33):
We're clearly first timers. We're like, who are
the two girls in the corner crying and talking to
their phone? But it was. It was perfect. I mean,
it was just like, I. I want to be a first timer. I
want to be an amateur. I. I want to be new here,
(17:54):
you know, I want to be just like every other girl.
Like, I'm not a pro. I'm not. I don't want to be
polished. I don't want to be too cool for school.
No, Zero, chill. I am not too cool for school.
Like, I, like, we did not know what to do. In
fact, I was actually filming that girl when.
Because I was, like, so freaking out. I was
filming her as she's looking at our book because
(18:15):
I'm like, look, somebody's looking at her book.
And then she turns and looks at me, and I'm like,
oh, gosh, now I look weird. I. She. She saw me
filming her. I mean, it was just like, what. I
mean, what can you do? What can you do? I love
that.
>> Sarah (18:30):
Okay, let's. Can we talk just a minute about that?
Like, I want to be like other girls. I. Yeah. Ah,
I just love that so much. And yeah, say if you. I,
I do. You happen to remember. I'm gonna look her
up if you can't. I, want to look her up really
quick just to introduce, though, like, that idea.
I'm gonna make sure my volume's off. I just want
to find her.
>> Corinne (18:49):
But she's the poet.
>> Sarah (18:52):
The poet. And she has Georgie. Georgie.
>> Corinne (18:55):
Yes, Georgie.
>> Sarah (18:56):
yes.
>> Corinne (18:57):
We love her monologue that she delivers.
>> Sarah (19:00):
That I think was. Was passed kind of through
Instagram, I think is how we. Yeah, some. One of
our friends passed it through.
>> Corinne (19:06):
The one where she's like, I love women. I love all
women. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (19:12):
It's so good trying to load it.
>> Corinne (19:15):
And it's just.
>> Sarah (19:16):
It to me, like, I love how she speaks to, like,
against, I guess, this, this myth of scarcity and
this myth of competition amongst women, and it's
like, it's just so gorgeous and and how she just
has this appreciation for, Just, like, the girly
things and the girlhood and kind of these things
(19:37):
that. That are, That she notices about women or
like that.
>> Corinne (19:41):
M. Yeah.
>> Sarah (19:41):
Ah, I've got it right here. I kind of want to play
it for a second.
>> Corinne (19:44):
Do you think it's just being obsessed with each
other and, like, hyping each other up and cheering
for each other and championing each other and all
of the good. Like, it's so much more fun to be. To
not be trying to be so cool and not be. Trying to
be so unique. You know, it's like. To be so
(20:04):
celebrating each other and, like, actually not
having any chill and being obsessed with each
other is so much more fun.
>> Sarah (20:12):
Just.
>> Corinne (20:12):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:13):
Getting rid of that myth and the illusion that,
like, we have it all. We all have it all figured
out and no one else does, and we've got to gate
that, and it's like, there's only so much to go
around, and it's. You know, we've got the. We've
got it all. I don't know. There's just, like.
That, That, to me, is so Number one. It's just not
(20:33):
true. It's just not true, and it's exhausting.
That's so.
>> Corinne (20:36):
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's like. What did you say? An
illusion? Is that what you said? The illusion?
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:41):
Yeah, it is. And it's. I mean, we're able. I think
it's. That's part of why social media can be so
dangerous, because it's very easy to craft that
illusion and maintain it. Although that's
exhausting, too. I. I just love that. I feel like
she just kind of rips the.
>> Corinne (20:56):
That.
>> Sarah (20:57):
That mask away and is like. No, like, it's. It's
so positive and so affirming and just such good
energy, and it's just like this whole other thing.
And. Yeah, like, let's, I hope it never gets old
to see people flipping through our books in a
bookstore. I hope we constantly are on the verge
of tears about that because we're just so blown
away and so in love with the entire experience
(21:19):
that this is of getting to be a writer and
interact with readers and share our work. I mean.
>> Corinne (21:25):
Yeah. And we are so obsessed with people flipping
through the pages of, other people's work, too.
You know, like, it was such an honor and so fun to
stand up there with Barbara and April and to stand
up next to Rebeca and hear her be telling her
story. Like, it was just so delicious and so much
(21:46):
fun. And you know, we talk about midlife, but we
also talk about girlhood. And what that was just
the juxtaposition of that was so on display that
day, of all of us just being giddy and yet all of
us like it, like, squarely and firmly rooted in
midlife, you know, like, this is not our first
rodeo and yet it is like all of our first rodeo at
(22:10):
the same time. So like it. And having so much fun
with it, not taking it too seriously, and yet
being really committed to this work. So like, all
of that both and is just so good. Are you gonna
(22:47):
play that or do you have Georgie queued up? Are
you gonna play? I have her queued up.
>> Sarah (22:50):
yeah, I'm kind of curious.
>> Corinne (22:52):
See if you can play it into the mic.
>> Sarah (22:54):
It's just gorgeous. Also, her voice is just so
beautiful. I think she could probably just like,
read my grocery list and it would be like, oh,
that's amazing.
>> Corinne (23:02):
Yep.
>> Sarah (23:04):
Okay, hold on. All right, I've got her.
>> Corinne (23:07):
Okay, what's her full handle? Just for anyone
listening. Okay.
>> Sarah (23:09):
Georgie. Georgie Jones. We can link it maybe.
Okay.
>> Corinne (23:14):
Yeah.
>> Speaker C (23:16):
And also, every woman that I haven't yet, and
also, every woman that I likely never will. So
when this fella's like, you know you're not like
other girls, or smirking like he's just unwrapped
a prize like he might have just found the
compliment of the century, I just want to scream,
(23:37):
oh, no, thank you.
>> Sarah (23:43):
No.
>> Speaker C (23:45):
All I've ever wanted to be is like other girls. I
want to wing my eyeliner. like other girls Drink
iced matcha like other girls know when I want to
dip my toe in the ritual more than I crave the
taste. I want to lean against a bar in a silk
dress like other girls. Press red lipstick onto a
napkin or do my makeup on a moving train, Let the
(24:07):
vibrations ratt my mascara into place. I want to
show my belly like other girls Even when it
trembles with doubt. I want denim swung low around
my hip bones. I want soft hands like other girls.
loads of silver rings and I want to never lose
them down the sink or at the bottom of a tote bag
(24:27):
filled with unfinished snacks and receipts. I want
to be like the women who can balance a coffee, a
meal deal their phone keys and a cute little
existential crisis all in one hand.
>> Corinne (24:41):
So good.
>> Sarah (24:42):
So good.
>> Corinne (24:43):
Yeah. Cute little existential crisis all in one
hand.
>> Sarah (24:47):
I mean, just like other girls. Yeah.
>> Corinne (24:51):
She's like, oh, no, thank you. Oh, no, thank you.
All I've ever wanted is to be like other girls.
Yes.
>> Sarah (24:59):
Yeah. So beautiful.
>> Corinne (25:01):
Yep.
>> Sarah (25:02):
It's part of Return. It honestly, part of what
we're sharing today. We get to share a little
reading from part three of Skies, which we call
Return. And in the journey that we walk through,
of ruin, Rise, Return, this. This process of
(25:24):
reclamation, really finding ourselves that we've
walked through. The mess, the residual pain, of
trauma, and then the aftermath. The long, many,
many, many desert trails that we've wandered in
search of our healing. And the return is this
(25:50):
finding of self and not necessarily, here's a bow.
Everything's fixed and fine and. Or like. And now
we're this new shiny, happy thing. It's
reclamation for a reason. It's a returning for a
reason because we are still who we are. And so
much of the work is going to see about a girl.
(26:11):
It's going back and taking her back and bringing
her with us and that. But that is so much of my, I
think my experience of return. So many of my
pieces within this section speak to that.
>> Corinne (26:27):
That.
>> Sarah (26:28):
Let's go get her. Where is she? Oh, yeah, I know
her. They didn't take that from me. She's still
with me. How about for you?
>> Corinne (26:35):
It's the, coming home, right? It's the coming home
to ourselves, which again, yeah, that's not always
shiny, it's not always finished, but it's ours.
And when we, when we come, through the healing,
through the rebuilding, and we come home to
(26:57):
ourselves when we make peace with all the girls
we've been before, and then we know that all of
them belong and we have that compassion for
ourselves and for all the other girls in our
lives. Right. All the other women, all of, all of
(27:19):
the people we're in community with from our past,
our present, and then everyone that is in our
future, like that is the return. I think the
return is also ongoing. It's an ongoing practice.
So Return is where it gets really beautiful. And
so I think, you know, ruin. We're always like,
(27:41):
okay, take it slow for the reader. Go at your own
pace. You might have to put it down and come back
to it. That's okay. Rise is that healing and
finding our way through after we've, you know,
after we've left and after we've come home to the
desert. And then the Return is where we start to
see that pink sunrise light. So I always feel like
(28:05):
Return has a little bit of a shimmer. And, you
know, today I've got on my pink sequins, you've
got on your black sequins, and I feel like that
just. That feels accurate for return. Like, it's
just a little. There's a little shimmer, you know,
in. In our peripheral vision. There's a little
glow in this part of the book. And it's not a
(28:25):
finishing. It's not. It's not done, but it's a.
There's a little bit of hope. There's a little bit
of light on the horizon in this part of the book
that feels really good. And, yeah, I'm excited to
read from that today.
>> Sarah (28:37):
Yeah. Do you want to jump in? I'm excited to. To
hear what piece you're reading from today.
>> Corinne (28:44):
Yeah, well, I, can go first if you want me to. I'm
actually gonna read. I was gonna read from
Canyonlands, but I decided to read from Sanctuary
today. Yeah. So there's a little sneak peek into a
(29:05):
couple chapter titles. Sanctuary is a little look
at the religious tradition that I grew up with
when I was young. And it's a sweet bit of
reclamation. There's. There's history, there's
(29:26):
lore, there's some old sensory pieces in this,
chapter for me that, are. They're pieces that I
get to keep even, you know, as we return to
ourselves, we don't keep everything right. Not
everything survives. But there are pieces of our
(29:47):
journey and of ourselves along the way that we do
get to keep. And I love this piece because it
reminds me that for everything that I have set
down, for everything that I have not picked back
up, there are those little pieces of myself and
those little pieces of my own history that I still
carry. And I love that. So I have an affection for
(30:11):
this piece, that's. That's unique. All right, so
(30:48):
I'm going to read from the beginning of the
Sanctuary chapter. Nostalgia wafts thick through
the sea of wooden pews parted down the middle by a
single aisle leading to the symbolic crucified
Jesus suspended above the altar of my childhood.
(31:09):
The scent of aged brick and concrete floors and
wood polish and candle wax greet me at the door
like an old friend. The low wooden railing I once
rested my elbows upon while kneeling for communion
as a girl has been removed. I wonder if the
parishioners even go forward for communion
(31:31):
anymore, or if they just pass a tray of tiny cups
and wafers the size of Chiclets, the kind I saw in
communion kits on the clearance table the last
time I set foot in a Christian bookstore. I can
still see the golden chalice being tipped to my
little lips for a sip of wine and the kind eyes of
(31:52):
the volunteer who served every week. It was the
80s and I recall rumors of a virus and people in
the fellowship hall whispering that he shouldn't
be serving communion. All I knew was his eyes were
gentle, and I never felt afraid. In the 90s there
(32:13):
would be other rumors about our priest that made
people in the courtyard say he shouldn't be
priesting anymore. All I knew was that, his eyes
twinkled, and I could never put my finger on the
reason. It made me nervous. My childhood Episcopal
Church sits dark, but it's still open on this
(32:35):
weekday afternoon. I find it comforting that
spaces like this are here, even if no one walks
through their door. The only light peeking in from
the square stained glass windows running high
along the high walls just below the swooping
arched beams supporting the concave, a frame
ceiling designed to switch sweep the eye and the
(32:56):
spirit skyward. I remember loving those dark wood
beams. My youngest brother always said they looked
like two quarter pipe skate ramps meeting in the
middle at their peak. I always thought they looked
like the inverted rib cage of a whale. As a girl I
dreamt I was floating on my back, relaxed in the
belly of the beautiful beast, lulled by the ebb
(33:20):
and flow cadence of the congregation reciting the
prayers and creeds. The parish vicar pops in from
the foyer to welcome me and offers to turn on the
lights. I thank him and share an abbreviated
version of my connection to the church, which
endears me to him and moves him to give me the
room in solitude. I make myself at home in the
(33:42):
back row, and the vision of my young self floats
in through my olfactory senses materialize,
materializing next to me in the pew. She was so
cute, finding her footing early on, her first
efforts to pull open her own ribcage of faith in
order to float on her back and breathe free. 13
(34:04):
was the year she learned to stand on her own. No
longer in elementary school, no longer the
teacher's daughter, she had to figure out her
life. She could be anyone. Maybe if she had the
guts, she could even be herself. So I like the
(34:27):
beginning of that piece just because it sets a
scene and there's a lot more to that chapter that
follows, and there's a lot more reflection and a
lot that has to do with my younger self, and it's
a piece even about my mom, and I love that about
it. I love that it's a piece about my childhood
(34:48):
and a connection to my older self. But I love the
setting of the scene and that sensory experience
that we have and how we can have a moment in time
and we can have those memories that take us back
just like that. Like a scent, right? Or a certain
space that can take us right back. And I like that
(35:12):
that is something that I can still carry. I can
still carry an affection for a time, a season, a
space. Even if it was wrought with its own
problematic elements, even if there are reasons
why it's not part of my current reality and part
of my current life. It's still something that is
(35:33):
sweet. It's still something that I look back on
fondly. And it was formative and it was my 13 year
old self. It was her. It was my first time
standing on my own two feet and figuring out who I
was. So I, I love that piece and I like, I like
the direction that it goes. I'm excited for the
reader to follow that one through.
>> Sarah (35:54):
I love that piece too. I'm so glad you shared that
one. I always, I mean, you do such a good job of
describing the space. I love it feels like we're
right there with you. And I always love how you
describe the ceiling. I feel like I'm almost like
underwater and if I lift my arm and stretch my
fingertips, I could just like scrape against the
ribcage of the whale. And I, I love that of all
(36:17):
the places that you could have taken us to meet
your 13 year old self, you took us back to the
sanctuary of, of the church, which, especially
even now, like thinking through, okay, for what
you shared in ruin here on this podcast and what
you shared in rise for the listener here to be
(36:37):
hearing you speak with even like a tenderness and
affection to be choosing to place yourself back in
a scene in it within a church building. I'm
curious if you can speak to even like what brought
you back into that space. What about that, scene
inspired you? Like this was a story you wanted to
(36:57):
tell and the moments that you draw from within
this story are so beautiful and you're such an
incredible writer. You really could have pulled
from a different scene. You could have told us a
different moment in time. Like you picked this
one. And I know that there's purpose behind that
and I'm wondering if you could share a little bit
behind that.
>> Corinne (37:16):
Yeah, I think the sensory experience that precedes
my, my first moment of protest, honestly be as a
13 year old, in those pews, you know, figuring out
who I was. It was the first moment, it was the
(37:36):
first space where not only, you know, do I talk
about, you know, How I was raised and, and my mom
and the, the way that she raised me to find my
voice and use my voice and, you know, figure out
what I believed and all of those things. That was
the first space that I got to practice that. And
so in that church and in those pews was the first
(37:57):
place that I practiced a little bit of protest and
opening up my own rib cage and figuring out how to
breathe free. And that's part of the story that I
tell in that chapter. But I think what's key? And
so I love that you asked that question because I
think what's key? And the reason that I shared
from the beginning of that chapter, which is maybe
unusual for me, is because I think that the
(38:19):
sensory experience that precedes that is the
sweetness. And I often tend to maybe look for the
punch in a story. I often tend to look for maybe
the sharper edge or the, one liner. And I think
that this beginning piece, even the part that I
(38:43):
left off, that, you know, I might even have the
guts to, to be myself, that is the, I think that's
the, that's the lead that heads into that first
place of protest for me, which is more of an
expected space, I think for me is of course I was
(39:03):
13 and protesting in the back pew of that little
church, you know, and dressed in all black, which
is part of the story that you'll read in that
chapter, you know, when, when you get to it. But.
And that, that's funny. And I love that part of
myself and for this, for my 48 year old self, to
look back at that and to remember the smell of the
(39:25):
candle wax and to remember the smell of the wood
of the pews and to remember the light coming in
through the stained glass window. To remember the
sweetness, not just the protest. Is that both. And
that's the midlife and the girlhood together
returning.
>> Sarah (39:45):
That's so beautiful.
>> Corinne (39:46):
Yeah. Yeah, I love that.
>> Sarah (39:48):
Thank you for sharing that.
>> Corinne (39:50):
Yeah, that was a good prompt. Thanks for asking.
All right. I know what you're reading from. I'm
excited for this one.
>> Sarah (40:00):
I'm going to be reading actually from the, the
actual book.
>> Corinne (40:04):
Love it.
>> Sarah (40:05):
If you hear a, if you hear a page, flip.
>> Corinne (40:07):
A page turning. What? A page turning.
>> Sarah (40:10):
Actually, the book. There she is. Yep, yep. So
we'll see how it goes. It might, it might be a
little noisy, but it's a good thing. so this
chapter is called Kachina Woman, and I am dropping
us in. This is actually closer. Toward the end of
the of the chapter, love dropping in. Yeah, I'm
(40:30):
maybe not going to give a lot of context because
otherwise I'm pretty much telling you the entire
chapter and I'm not going to do that. but I think
it will stand on its own. I'm hoping. The reason I
wanted to share this piece was in really just
thinking about return, one of the elements that I
don't think I mentioned even earlier was like also
(40:51):
in the returning, there's kind of the legacy and
the handing down and like the collective that that
is affected like as we return to ourselves that
there's this ripple effect that, that others are
returned to self to or the invitation and like
within our family. And so thinking about my kids
and what type of legacy, what type of story am I
(41:15):
handing to them as I'm looking at my own 12 year
old self and these other versions of me throughout
different chapters that I write about as well and
looking at my kids entering these ages and going,
oh my goodness, like of course we can't prevent
all bad things from ever happening to our kids, of
course. And honestly we wouldn't want to because
(41:37):
we want them to grow and be strong and develop and
all those things. We want them to know how to
navigate hard things. That's not the point is like
never go through anything hard but. And yet what
type of scaffolding am I building into their
childhoods that I wish had been there for me?
Like, what's the truest truth that I'm building in
(41:58):
for them that I had to go back and like claw my
way to that I had to go back and return to. So
this, this is kind of a picture of maybe a moment
of realization of that returning that is for me,
but that also rips through me and reaches beyond
me to also my kids. So it was a Sunday when I
(42:54):
pulled up to the parking lot of the Apache Wash
Preserve. I went back to the trail where I first
gave myself permission to dream. Beyond the walls
of the church, I brought Mercy and Emerson with me
because I wanted them to see it too, feel it too,
love it too. They ran ahead a few paces, talking
(43:15):
and laughing at inside jokes. I looked around and
inhaled deeply. I felt so full, so abundant, so
incredibly alive. I drew upon the awe.
>> Corinne (43:28):
Ah.
>> Sarah (43:28):
I felt standing before the flute man and kachina
woman and the holiness of that moment. God was
there. I remembered the feel of my feet trembling
on the holy ground of my kitchen as my inner parts
returned. God was there. I bent down and broke
small branches off the brittle bushes that lined
(43:49):
the dirt, pulling narrow yellow petals from their
stalks. One by one, I watched as they were swept
up by the wind. God is here. All at once, I was
overcome with gratitude for the desert and the
healing I'd found within her expanse. I'd become
so deeply woven into her landscape. Iron mud
(44:11):
dripping from my skin, creosote and sage leaves
strewn through my hair, golden honey on my tongue.
I felt charged from the inside out by her
Technicolor sunsets, By that exact moment when the
shale mountainsides blink purple and the skies are
so electric it nearly hurts to look at. Mercy's
(44:32):
laugh cuts through the rabbit trail in my mind.
She and Emerson wandered the path up ahead as a
flash of clarity suddenly washed over me. No more
boxes. No more shame. Not for me and not for them.
Watching my kids leaping and laughing and free, I
whispered a prayer in the wind. May they never put
(44:56):
themselves in a box. My cheeks flushed at the
thought of those gorgeous, big hearted creatures
ever believing they were broken, unworthy, in need
of saving. I made a vow. No longer would I be
concerned with handing them a, boxed theology,
(45:16):
using shame and fear to keep them in line,
ordered, small and easy to manage. No, what I
wanted was their wild. I wanted it all. This was
the rebellion. This was the legacy. No more
crawling on our knees to be good. No more
(45:37):
pretending. Yep, there we have it. There she is.
>> Corinne (45:48):
So this piece and the way that you talk about the
boxes, I'm really excited for the reader to read
the entire piece because it's such a powerful
device and it's also actually just a really
familiar metaphor for so many of us to feel like
(46:09):
we've been put in a box. maybe you could speak a
little bit more without, you know, giving us the
entire chapter. Maybe you could speak a little bit
more to the ways that you were able to set down
the dichotomy of God and theology to encompass the
(46:36):
rebellion. This bigger idea that one did not
require the other, that process of you being able
to say, God is here, God is here, God is here, and
no more boxes. So looking at your kids, maybe is
how that was so clear. but maybe, yeah. So I know
(47:01):
that the boxes is something that you flesh out
more in the chapter, but I'm just thinking about
how you started off with that piece of God is
here, God is here, God is here. But even that
idea, you're obviously taking us to a place that
is so much more expansive than maybe it once was.
(47:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:23):
There's a chapter in, in Rise that I write Called
Super Bloom. And that one to me is really the
beginning. It's like a glimpse into really the
beginning of what was really, I guess, my
deconstruction, process, which just the very
beginning of those inklings just represents the
(47:43):
early, you know, do I dare. Do I dare to think
that God could exist outside of what I've been
told God is and where, where I can find God and
what God needs to be and what my. What I need to
be in order to experience what that God is? and
(48:04):
the process, you know, the expanse between Super
Bloom to Kachina Woman is wide. Like, that is the
journey. There's a lot of life that happens, a lot
of story that happens between there. That got me
to a point where.
>> Corinne (48:20):
I.
>> Sarah (48:22):
Easily and, and holistically want, want that type
of expansive, view and understanding not only for
myself, but for my kids. And I do think sometimes
it's easier for us. I'll speak for myself as a
parent. what can feel really gray and hard to
define for myself, maybe, like, here's a boundary
(48:45):
or here's a violation. I'm maybe willing to put up
with a lot more for myself. But if that same
boundary or I witnessed occurring to my child, I.
It's suddenly very black and white. Like it
becomes very clear very quickly. That's not okay.
Or, nope, there's a line, you know. And so I think
practicing the returning was so much of learning
(49:07):
how to like, love myself with that same type of
fierceness, like, to. To respect myself with that
same, like, type of clarity. And that's so much of
what got mucky and so much of what, in my own
personal experience, religion made really
difficult to understand and know the sound of my
(49:28):
own voice. And that's a lot of what I had to go
back and find again and return to. And so I think
that again, there's not like a. This is how I did
it, right? It's just like that was the slow
relearning, the slow reclaiming, the slow
returning that was happening kind m of all along.
(49:50):
The more distance I got from that muckiness, that
fuzziness that was my experience within religion,
the more I started to recognize the sound of my
own voice. And within that, what I understood to
be maybe a bigger understanding of would be what
(50:11):
God's voice would be or this big, this bigger than
me voice.
>> Corinne (50:18):
I love at the end of that how you use the word
rebellion in the same space and like, swirling
with, with the sense of wild and the sense of
beauty and the sense of, a Child's joy and the
(50:41):
sense of this big, expansive. They're running
through the desert, they're on the trail. You
know, this. It's childhood, right, where it's
almost like you put that word in there that is
typically so pejorative, especially when we're
talking about things of, faith or religion or
(51:02):
spirit. Like, the rebellion is actually. I feel
like you kind of turned it on its head right there
at the very end, which I feel like is playful and
beautiful and artistic, which, of course. Of
course, that's what you did with it. but again,
(51:23):
it's. It's hard to. It's. It's easy to, It's easy
to argue that word when we're looking at bullet
points, but when we have the image of two
beautiful children running free, it challenges us
to see that word in a more expansive and a more
(51:47):
free way. And I think, just like you said, hearing
our own voice, that's what that made me think of.
It's like, oh, what if rebellion is a little bit
more free for me too? Not just for kids, but for
me too. So I love that you put that right there at
the very end, and you leave us with that right
there at the very end. On, purpose. I know.
>> Sarah (52:09):
On purpose.
>> Corinne (52:10):
I know.
>> Sarah (52:10):
Yes, I know. You know.
>> Corinne (52:12):
I know. You know. and then also between Superbloom
and Kachina is like a literal desert. Of course.
>> Sarah (52:22):
I mean, a literal desert.
>> Corinne (52:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:23):
It's so true.
>> Corinne (52:25):
I know that there's never a how to. There's never
the bullet points of this is how you resolve your
ideas of God. but there was a literal desert
between those two stories. I'm really looking
forward to the reader being able to find their way
through and find themselves in your desert,
(52:46):
because our deserts are the same, and yet they're
very different. And so on that journey, and even
through that chapter of Kachina Woman, I'm really
looking forward to how the reader finds
themselves.
>> Sarah (52:59):
Yeah. Thank you for saying that. And I love that
because, you're right. It's like the desert is a
main character in Skies, for sure, but it's almost
like she's. Well, she is so multifaceted, and
she's got all of these different versions of her.
And who she is to you is different than who she is
to me. And I love that because the reader's gonna
(53:21):
get this, like, all these different versions of.
Because of course, like, that was. That's true.
>> Corinne (53:27):
Well, and also, like Kachina Woman, here's just a
little bit of Backstory for the reader. Kachina
Woman is a trail.
So there is the chance that a reader might find
themselves on that trail someday. The same way
that my friend told me about that trail and I
(53:47):
found myself on that trail. And then I told you
about that trail and then you found yourself on
that trail. And all of us had our own different
experiences on that trail.
>> Sarah (53:56):
Yeah.
>> Corinne (53:56):
so it's like. And we have all of our own different
experiences in this same desert. And your
experience on that Kachina Woman trail is what the
reader gets to walk through. And then undoubtedly
there is going to be a reader that finds
themselves in that red dirt with that dust on
(54:20):
their shoes, having their own experience.
>> Sarah (54:22):
Oh, I hope so. I hope so.
>> Corinne (54:24):
With their own story. Oh yeah. Ah, I love. I hope
we get to hear about that. Yes, I hope we get to
hear about that.
>> Sarah (54:30):
Whoever does that, please, please, please tell us
that you did it. Please just give us a little
sneak.
>> Corinne (54:35):
Just a little. Just a little sneak peek. Please
come back and tell us. But it's different. For
it's different every single time. Every. Every
single one of us. Every trail, every space, every
story, every story. Experience.
>> Sarah (54:49):
Yep.
>> Corinne (54:50):
Yep. But that's that collective that you're
talking about. Like, we hand. It's. It's the
handing hand over hand. Right. Whether it's
passing, the passing the plates at the table.
Right. Or it's the inheritance. it's the theology
that you're not willing to hand, the harmful
theology or the beautiful, the beautiful spiritual
(55:13):
teaching that you are wanting to hand. Right. It's
that collective passing. And I think that it's
also true in space and time and place where we
hand each other something geographic and we're
acknowledging when we're a guest on a specific
(55:36):
land where, you know, we get to experience a place
as a guest, we get to experience a place, on our
own, in our own way. The stories that belong to
that land. Anyway, I just. I could geek out on
that.
>> Sarah (55:50):
I do. I same.
>> Corinne (55:53):
We're like braiding it all together.
>> Sarah (55:55):
Like, oh, I just love it.
>> Corinne (55:56):
Keep going, keep going. But I feel like we should
say.
>> Sarah (56:01):
That Skies is available on bookshop.org because
that was a really exciting thing. It's available
on all platforms pre order.
>> Corinne (56:08):
You probably should say that. Yeah.
>> Sarah (56:09):
But like, we are getting messages from people that
Sky's is shipping now. If you Pre order from
bookshop.org it's shipping to you. So if you are
like not wanting to wait until Release date of
October 21st and you are wanting that book in your
hot little hands sooner you can go to bookshop.org
and it'll say pre order, but if you, if you buy
(56:32):
it, it will ship out. And that's just so exciting.
And I don't know how that all works, but I'm like,
oh my gosh, that's amazing.
>> Corinne (56:39):
It's, it's magic, it's sorcery. I don't know.
>> Sarah (56:42):
The magic we don't need to know about. It's fine.
So yeah, our pay grade, but yeah, we're going to
stick to writing.
>> Corinne (56:52):
Oh, this is good. I can't believe we've seen
shared from each of our three sections.
>> Sarah (56:56):
It feels good. Feels good. Now we get to just
celebrate. I'm going to come back next time with
more sequins. I think sequins are forever.
>> Corinne (57:04):
I know sequins are forever. I think next time
we're gonna do a little bit of lore, I think,
right?
>> Sarah (57:11):
Yeah. It's gonna be a party.
>> Corinne (57:13):
We're gonna, we're gonna be so book obsessed. As
if we haven't been already.
>> Sarah (57:18):
All things. The skies are full of us. All things.
Yep.
>> Corinne (57:21):
All things.
>> Sarah (57:23):
Till then.
>> Rebeca (57:39):
You've been listening to Spiritual Pirate with
Sarah Carter and Corrine Sharp on the one C Story
Network. For more information about this and all
of your stories, please visit justonesee.com
that's J u s t o n e C dot com.
>> Corinne (57:55):
because that's what we do is we dance on, on our
podcast,
>> Singer (57:58):
the 1C Story Network. For the love of stories.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com