Love & Murder: Alexander Skeel

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now part of the dark Cast Network. Welcome to indie
podcasts with a dark side. Today we're discussing a topic
that really needs light shed on it. I may even
lose a couple listeners based on my views about this topic,
but I'm Kai, I'm real, and I won't shy away

(00:20):
about important cases or topics.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
It's the case of Alexander Skiel. Right now on Love
and Murder, Welcome Lambs. Welcome to a new episode of

(00:46):
Love and Murder. You're a weekly true crime podcast telling
you cases of heartbreak that turned to homicide. I am
your host, Kai, and in today's episode, we're discussing a
case of horrendous abuse and the outcome of it. Before
we begin, I want to say that this episode and
all my episodes are sponsored by my Lambsandpatreon, Patreon dot com,

(01:08):
Ford Slash Love and Murder be shureter. Subscribed to Love
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(01:31):
In the meantime, though, grab your butts, grab your BJ's brand, Applejuice,
murdering love dot com, Ford slash bjs and let's get
into some love and murder. Alexander Gerald Skiel was born
on August seventeenth, nineteen ninety five, and he lived in
Stewart b Uk I think that's how you say it,
stew r T by Stewart b I Think, which is

(01:54):
south of Bedford. From a young age, Alex and his
twin brother were featured models for an Asta grocery chain.
In twenty twelve, at the age of sixteen, Alex met
Jordan Wirth during their college years. They actually ended up
meeting at a college concert in June of that year.
Jordan was a gymnast who went to the University of

(02:15):
Hertfordshire and aspired to be a teacher, and it was
said that she came from a quote loving and supportive
family background. Quote. She was very caring, confident, lovin. She
just showed a real interest in me. Even though the
relationship started out great, things took a dark turn at first.
Alex tried to end a relationship, but kindery considered when

(02:37):
Jordan said that she was pregnant. In May of twenty fourteen,
when he was eighteen, baby Thomas J. TJ as he's known,
was born and Alex and Jordan got back together. Alex's
best friend is reported as saying, Jordan just got back
into his head to the point where you couldn't do
or say anything to stop it. As time went by,

(02:58):
Alex felt that he had to choose between his girlfriend
and his family, and he ended up choosing his little family,
which was his girlfriend in TJ. And they ended up
moving into their own home in stuart b, Bedfordshire in
July twenty sixteen. In May of twenty seventeen, the couple
will welcome another child, a little girl named Iris, and
by this time Alex hadn't spoken to his parents in

(03:19):
two years. He didn't even call them to tell them
that he had another child. However, shortly after Iris was born,
Alex broke up with Jordan. Now, before you start looking
at Alex all sideways and stuff, let's get into the
home life that Alex had with Jordan. Between April twenty
sixteen and June twenty seventeen, Jordan abused Alex, and it

(03:42):
only got worse over time. At first, their relationship started
out good, like I said earlier, it turned bad, very bad.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
Quote.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
The longer they were together, and as the relationship grew,
the mind games started playing. Jordan would say, I don't
really like the color gray. I don't think you should
wear the color gray. She'd say, I don't like your
hair like that. You should have your hair like this.
I don't like your shoes you're wearing. But I never
took it as a negative. It was more like, I
won't wear it again, it won't impress her. One time,

(04:14):
Alex's family tried to take the couple out to London
to go to a theater. However, after a while, they
noticed that Jordan was nowhere in sight. She had just
disappeared in the middle of the night, so they got
worried about her. You know, where did she go to?
Somebody pick her up? Did we leave her somewhere? Like
what in the world? And they frantically searched the hotel,
around the hotel everywhere, and an hour later she was

(04:37):
just sitting in the hotel lobby quote, just laughing. Another time,
when it was Alex's eighteenth birthday, they were having a
party for him, and she just started screaming, quote abuse
at a female friend who she just for some reason,
was now jealous of. So she just started screaming and
ranting and raving and just causing a commotion at this party. However,

(05:00):
Alex kept staying with her, even when his family and
friends told him to leave her, even when they kept
telling him that it's going to get worse, even when
they were showing him the red flags, even when they
draped him in a red towel and had red sunglasses
over him, and put on red shoes on him and
painted his skin red. Even through all of those red flags,

(05:21):
Alex decided to stay.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
Quote.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
I was a bit clouded by what happened, because at
the time I loved her. Over even more time, she
became so controlling that she took away his wallet and
made him quit the job that he was working at.
Over more time, she became even more control and to
the point where she took away his wallet and forced
him to quit his job. Instead of going to work,
he would come with her to classes at the university,

(05:45):
and she did this so she can keep a watchful
eye on him, not that he was doing anything. He
wasn't cheating on her, he wasn't being a horrible boyfriend.
She just wanted to control him to that extent, and
instead of playing those mind games saying, Oh, I don't
like this color, I don't like what you're wearing, she
would literally demand that he wear what she said to wear.
She would continuously hit him and assault him, and she

(06:08):
is the reason he hadn't talked to his family in
two years. What she would do is she would actually
pretend to be him, so she would send messages from
his phone, just berating his family, talking down to his friends,
and ultimately saying I don't want to see y'all anymore.
Once that was done, she then broke his phone, so

(06:28):
he couldn't even get in contact with them if he
wanted to. And personally, I was wondering why he didn't
just leave, But then I started thinking, Oh, if she's
doing this to him, what might she do to his children?
So I'm wondering if he maybe thought that he was
the buffer between her and the children, so he was
just taking it for his children. And then I read

(06:50):
that he was worried about leaving for two different reasons.
Number one, just in case she harmed the children, he
wouldn't be there, nobody would be there to help the children.
And number two, thinking that he might lose custody of
the children and she might get full custody and then
what So Jordan took full advantage of this. She took

(07:11):
over his social media accounts and didn't allow him to
get in contact with like anybody anyway. Anyhow, she completely
isolated him from the world. One time, just for shits
and giggles, she told him that his grandfather, who he
was really really close with, had died, and when Alex
just fell out crying, devastated, then she called him a punk,

(07:34):
a bitch, Get up what you're doing. What you cry
while you crying? You little you know, and laughed at
him for crying. And it was a complete lie. His
grandfather wasn't dead, by the way. She just did this
because she thought it was funny. She'd also become physically abusive,
where she would just randomly stab him or beat him
with random things. Her favorite was beating him with a

(07:55):
hair brush, and you know, a couple of times she
beat him so hard with the hairbrush that his tooth
came loose. One time she was attacking him with a
bread knife and she severed the tendons in his right hand.
And another time she attacked him with her favorite weapon,
the hair brush, and actually broke his tooth. As time
went by, she ramped up her abuse and one of

(08:17):
her other favorite ways of punishing him was with a
kettle full of boiling water. So she would constantly pour
boiling water on him. Now, neighbors would frequently hear his
screams and you know, would call nine one one, but
the police would come and leave. And whenever he came
outside and he had so many bruises on him, he

(08:38):
would They would ask him, where are all these bruises from?
Why you always bruised up? And he would always say
he did it to himself, or just make up an excuse,
I fell down the stairs, or you know how clumsy
I am. Now, some of us may know the same
excuses that we get from people we know in these
kind of relationships. So as you see, men as well
as women give the same excuses. Now, one time when

(09:00):
she was abusing him, this is just one out of many,
she had cut his hand once again with the bread knife,
and the police were called out because they heard him shouting, quote,
leave me alone, stop hurting me. When officers arrive, they
found Alex at the top of the stairs, just looking
so frail and so frightened. Sergeant Ed Finn, who was

(09:23):
one of the officers on the scene, said, quote, Jordan
let us in and we went upstairs. At the top
of the stairs, Alex was sat with a towel wrapped
around his arm and just blood everywhere. There was a
large serrated kitchen knife. Then I noticed other injuries on Alex.
When they asked Alex what happened, as he always does,
he said it was, you know, he did it to himself.

(09:45):
And he just kept saying I did it to myself.
And they're like with the bread knife, he was like, yeah,
I'm really clumsy. I was trying to, you know, cut
some bread and somehow I cut my wrist and my
whole hand and I don't know what else. I just
cut myself over and over and over and got blood
all over the house. It was all my fault. And
when police questioned Jordan, she would blame it on him, saying, quote,

(10:07):
he made it very clear he never wanted to see
his family. He said he hated his family and he
doesn't want to talk to his family. He wants nothing
to do with his family. Yeah, he hurt himself. I
guess he hurt himself because he feels lonely he's not
with his family. Well that part, the lonely part and
everything I didn't say, the part about the family, that
was all her but me saying you know, he did

(10:28):
it to himself, and everything that was me. But she
did say he did it to himself. She would always
blame it on him and say that he did this
to himself. There's just no quote of her of exactly
what she said. So officers took Alex to the hospital
to fix his cuts, fix his burnt arm, and Jordan
came with them when she got to the hospital though,

(10:49):
because they got there separately. So when she got to
the hospital though, she walked in and quote walked him
out of the hospital, despite the surgeon telling him that
he needed to stay. The doctors told him he needed
to stay, the police told him he needed to stay,
and all it took was Jordan to walk in and
walk him on out. A few days later, though, police

(11:12):
were once again called to the property, and this time
officers were not going to leave while he was still
in the vicinity of Jordan. This time, Sergeant Finn took
the call and went out himself. Quote as soon as
I saw him in the light of day, the state
of him in terms of countless injuries all over his body,

(11:32):
the fact that he had those horrible dirty clothes on,
he was pale thin. I thought he was being abused.
And looking at Jordan, he thought Jordan seemed very slight,
well spoken, very polite to all intents and purposes, a
very nice lady. Sergeant Finn sat down with Alex and
forced him, persuaded him, as a better word, to tell

(11:56):
him what was really going on. Alex, as per usual,
kept trying to say that he did this to himself,
he did this to himself, he did this to himself.
And finally Sergeant Finn was able to get through his
walls and get Alex to trust him. Alex told Sergeant
Finn that Jordan had stabbed him again. He told the

(12:16):
sergeant that Jordan had scalded him with the hot water
and had attacked him with a glass bottle, a screwdriver,
and a hammer. He said that she constantly denied him
food and he was basically starving. He told him about
the weapons that she used, which was the hammer, like
I said, the screwdriver, the bread knife, the hair brush.

(12:39):
He told him about her taking his wallet away, forcing
him to quit his job, and he said it had
gotten to the point where she was attacking him every day,
and that one time she even made him swallow an
entire packet of sleeping pills. And he told him about
the time where Jordan broke his tooth. I had no money,

(13:01):
I didn't drive, so in the end, I just ripped
the tooth out. Eh. Oh my god, Oh my god.
I can't even Oh my god. I guess he was
already in so much pain. Oh, I can't even imagine
he ripped his own tooth out quote. I'd be sleeping
and she'd smack me in the head, and I'd look
in the mirror and I'd just be bleeding. I wasn't
eating properly. She didn't let me. She made me sleep

(13:24):
on the floor instead of the bed. I could feel
that my body was starting to shut down. I didn't
want my son to get hurt, so I was fighting
to keep going because I didn't know what would happen
if I was to leave. She poured boiling water over
his arm so much that the skin had started peeling
off of his arms and his back. Quote, she would
wait up all night with a kettle of boiling water,

(13:46):
and if it went cold, she would just wait and
reboil it. So finally Sergeant Finn had all he needed
to arrest Jordan on suspicion of assault and grievous bodily harm.
Now there was actual body cam f that showed her
getting arrested and showed how bad Alex looked on that day.

(14:07):
His clothes were blood stained, he had bruises all over
his body, and he was just a beaten man. He
couldn't even make eye contact. Surprisingly, yet not so surprisingly,
when they were taken Jordan away, Alex gave her a
hug and a kiss goodbye, and then he himself was
taken to the hospital. He was initially taken to Bedford

(14:29):
Hospital's acute Clinic unit, and then they had to transport
him to the Adamsbrook Hospital. Doctors let him know that
he was quote just ten days away from death. In
the way that he was right now his physical state,
he was going to die in just ten days. Not
only was he starving to death, but his burns had

(14:52):
become infected doctor said he had lost fifty six pounds,
which is four stones. I don't know. I don't know
that conversion. If somebody said I lost one stone, I
have no idea what you're talking about. But my UK
listeners you know exactly what I'm talking about. So he
had lost four stone, which for us over here in

(15:13):
the US is fifty six pounds. Just oh my god,
that's what nine months in that time he had lost
fifty six pounds. And in September of twenty seventeen he
was released from the hospital and he was finally able
to see his family, his grandfather who he loved, and
he got back with his children again. Jordan, on the

(15:35):
other hand, was charged with seventeen counts of wounding with intent,
causing grievous bodily harm with intent, and controlling her corrosive
behavior in an intimate relationship. On April thirteenth, twenty eighteen,
she pled guilty and was given two seven year sentences
to be served consecutively at Luton Crown Court. She was

(15:57):
also given another six months for the control in her
coursive behavior, and because of this the six months for
that charge, she became the first female in the UK
to be convicted of this charge.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Ever.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
Now I've found this in my research and I don't
know how to say it in my own words, so
I'm just gonna say it in and in the show
notes below, I will leave the link to where I
got this from, so my reference quote. In June of
twenty eighteen, after a referral under the unduly Lenient sentence scheme,
the Court of Appeal determined that while her sentence was

(16:32):
undoubtedly very lenient, it was not unduly so, and she
was speared and increase of her sentence. So they gave
this woman who basically imprisoned a human being and then
proceeded to physically, mentally and emotionally abuse this human being
for nine months. She scalded him how many times every

(16:58):
single day she was doing something than to him. They
gave her seven and a half years. And then somebody
said maybe this is too lenient, and the court said, no,
it's it's we agree, it's actually very lenient. We agree
about that, but now it's it's not unduly lenient, so

(17:19):
we'll leave it as it is now. Tell me, Lambs,
if this was a man who did this to a woman,
just just let's imagine this for a second. This was
a man who kept a woman away from her family,
who kept a woman with him at all times, made

(17:40):
him quit his job, took away his money, took away
his phone, broke his phone. Then every day this man
would hit this woman with a brush, break his teeth,
or break her teeth, make her teeth loose in her mouth.
Then it escalated to beating her with a hammer and
pourn scalded in hot water on her every day. And

(18:02):
they came in and found this woman bloody, knived up, well,
cut up, skin hanging off her forearms and her back,
and fifty six pounds lighter. Now tell me, lambs, do
you think this man would have gotten only what two

(18:22):
seven years? So fourteen years? Fourteen and a half years?
Do you think he would have gotten fourteen and a
half years in prison? Or they would have dug a
hole under that jail and threw him under there. Which
one do you think would have happened? And let's say
he got fourteen and a half years. Let's say that
even happened. And then somebody said, I think that was lenient.

(18:45):
Do you think the court would have said, nah, I
mean it's lenient, But what you're gonna do we'll, we'll
let it, and it gets so much worse. So she
didn't attend her hearing, but her lawyer said that she
felt remorse. It was like, no, she's not here today,
but she does feel remorseful for her actions. I mean,

(19:05):
I don't know how we could tell she feels remorseful
for her actions because she's not here now. She had
fourteen years, which was two seven year sentences serves consecutively
and an extra six months thrown in. She was out
in twenty twenty two, the beginning of twenty twenty two,
January twenty twenty two to be exact. So she went

(19:25):
in April of twenty eighteen and she got out in
January of twenty twenty two. So what three and a
half years, if even that, out of fourteen years. And
the reason we know she got out in January of
twenty twenty two is because she got on social media
and started sharing pictures of herself. Now, they said that

(19:46):
she was released after serving half of her sentence, but
half of her sentence wouldn't have been wouldn't that have
been one sentence at least the seven years she didn't
serve half of her sentence, she served substantially less than
half of her sentence, but they said this is something
that occurs automatically in the UK and in ninety percent
of cases of imprisonment, so they let her out way early.

(20:09):
So she did this with impunity. She did these horrendous
acts to this man with impunity and got out of prison.
And it gets worse, believe it or not, it gets
worse than this. So on her social media, when she
started posting in twenty twenty two, like I said, she
said that she was the victim. She was the one

(20:29):
who was abused, and then she continuously shares links around
stories of women in abusive relationships. She was the victim.
There is no evidence in the history of evidence that
he did anything to her. And from what I understood
from her lawyers, she felt remorse. Remember this is the

(20:50):
remorse you let her out early for. And now her
remorse is that she was the victim of abuse. So
I'm left to wonder you gave her this lenient ass sentence.
Was it because what she was a woman, She couldn't
have possibly done all this stuff to a man. He's
a big, strong marin and he should be able to
defend himself. Why did she get such a lenient sentence,

(21:13):
and then you even let her out way early? And
if you really think about it, not only did she
abuse this man, but she emotionally abused those kids, mentally
abused them because they had to watch what was going on,
what was going on, And isn't that considered a form
of abuse too? And all you did was gave her
a slap on the wrist. It also came out that

(21:34):
in February twenty nineteen, Jordan's Facebook account was still posting,
so somebody was posting on her Facebook account for her
while she was in prison, and the posts that were
being posted on her account were about being the victim
of abuse. So this is where that rhetoric started before
she even got out of prison, saying that she was

(21:56):
the victim of domestic abuse. So when she got out,
it said this is what it said quote Worth was
given a restrain in order for an indefinite period. So
I'm not understanding was she given a restrain in order
or was it put on her to stay away from him?
So this is what I'm not understanding. I'm wondering if
it's like a UK form of grammar that it says

(22:19):
worse was given a restrain in order instead of it
was put on her, So I don't know if she
got a restrain in order against him because what the blue,
or if a restrain in order was put on her,
so that I don't understand that sentence. And then in
April of twenty twenty three, Jordan was engaged to some

(22:39):
guy named Adam steph now It then went on to
report that friends and family warned the frick out of
him about dating her, who was a convicted domestic abuser.
One friend even sent him the BBC documentary of Alex
telling everybody the story and told and then his friend
told him not to date the quote psychopath. But Adam said,

(23:02):
bump all that she's gorgeous, she's hot. Look at how
hot she is, and I want to be with her
and we're good together and whatever, and he stayed with her,
and he also posts pictures online with him and Jordan
being all happy and everything like that. And after hearing
on July fourth, twenty twenty three, the parole board decided

(23:22):
she's good and they released her early from her sentence
because they said she was no longer a risk to
the public. So literally nothing happened to her quote. After
considering the circumstances of her offendant and time on license,
the progress made while in custody, and the evidence presented
at the hearing, the panel was satisfied and imprisonment was

(23:44):
no longer necessary for the protection of the public. So
all of that and nothing happened to her. Now, this
is where I think I'm gonna lose some listeners, which
it is what it is. If you don't want to
listen to me anymore because of this, it is what
it is. But I've seen online at some people don't
ever believe that men can be abused, which clearly, obviously

(24:04):
I don't agree with that. Anybody can be abused. You
can be mentally, physically, emotionally abused. And abuse is wrong,
whether it's you're doing it to a man, you're doing
it to a woman, No, absolutely not. And I'm gonna
speak out against it, period, point blank. So you know,
if you don't agree with that, then I guess this
podcast isn't for you. And I believe those who abuse

(24:25):
needs to be punished for set abuse, and this woman
was not punished for set abuse. She is out living
her life, getting engaged, taking pictures claiming that she's the victim.
And this guy is living with these scars, both physical scars,
emotional scars, and mental scars, and hopefully, you know, I mean,

(24:46):
hopefully he's gotten counseling for this, and hopefully the children
don't even remember this. So there's three people who are
living with the scars, whether it's literal scars, like physical scars,
or metaphoric scars. But they're living with scars of what
she did. And she's just out living life to the fullest,

(25:06):
getting her sentences reduced and getting it taken away, and
just all of this stuff engaged to a guy who
refuses to believe, or you know, even if he does believe,
he thinks she's changed everything, just ay, okay for her. Now,
imagine if it was a man. Imagine if the shoe
were on the other foot, this guy would have been
getting his butt beat in jail. Still. They would have

(25:30):
never let him out early, They would have given him
even a worst sentence. They would have called him the
scum of the earth and everything like that. Everyone would
have been just even if he had gotten out of prison,
the world would have shunned him, shunned him. Alex on
the other hand. This is what he said.

Speaker 3 (25:50):
Quote.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
When the police found me, I was told I was
ten days away from death. I was in love with Jordan,
and it took me a long time to have the
courage to say she was abusing me. The day that
she went to prison, I felt so free. It was
a massive relief. I remember just saying I can actually
look over my shoulder now for the first time in
five years without worrying. Now that I'm free of the relationship,

(26:13):
I'm beginning to understand abuse better, and I hope that
I can help others understand it too. The memories will
never leave me, but I'm learning how to cope. I
have so much support from my family and friends, and
I'm building a future for me and my kids. Currently,
Alex is coaching a football team, which I think is
soccer in the US, sponsored by a domestic abuse charity.

(26:34):
He has since become an ambassador and spokesman for domestic
abuse against men and as part of the Mankind Initiative,
and talks to professionals to help them spot the signs
of abuse. And it's good to note, well, I don't
want to say good. It's interesting to note that men
make up more than a third of the victims of
domestic abuse in England and Wales each year. And to

(26:57):
find out more about the Mankind Initiative or to help
male victims of domestic abuse, go to Mankind dot org
dot uk or if you are a victim a male victim,
this case is just about male victims. If you are
a male victim of domestic abuse, please do not hesitate
to speak out. I know a lot of men are

(27:19):
scared to speak out, and even when they speak out,
usually people don't believe them. Usually people laugh at them,
whether it's men have gotten raped and do you know,
they'll tell the police, or they'll tell somebody in power
and this person will laugh at them like how is
that a bad thing? Like you know, they won't be
taken seriously. A man goes and says he's being abused

(27:41):
by his woman and people laugh at him like you're
bigger than her, just stop her. A lot of men
are not listened to when they're saying they've been raped,
when they're saying they've been abused or they are being abused.
It's really hard to find help for men. So if
you are a man and a victim of domestic abuse,

(28:02):
please seek help. A good place to go is Thismankind
dot org dot UK for our UK listeners, or in
the US you can call one eight eight eight seven
helpline that's one eight eight eight seven four three five
seven five four one eight eight eight seven four three
five seven five four or visit da h MW dot org.

(28:29):
And that is a domestic abuse case, the horrible, horrible,
so bad case of Alex Skiel. What did you think
about this episode? I know there are some people out
there who are like well on men get being every day,
and I understand that, but we need to call light
to every facet of domestic abuse, not just women, men

(28:53):
and children, everybody. Domestic abuse has got to stop. I
have brothers and so I'm worried about domestic abuse with them.
Who is gonna believe them? Well, I'll believe them, but
I'm saying outside of me and my family, who would
believe them in a domestic abuse incident? If they came
and said the person I'm with is beating on me,
you know who would believe them. Most men are scared

(29:15):
to go and get help for domestic abuse because most
of the time they are ridiculed. It is a huge problem.
I would love to hear from you about this case.
In my pole question for this week, I want you
to be honest with me. Would you believe a man
if he told you he was being physically abused by
his girlfriend or his wife at home? Be honest. The

(29:38):
polls are anonymous anyway, so just go ahead and be
honest with yourself and be honest with me, and let
me know if you would believe a man if he
said he was being physically abused at home. And I
hate to do this complete segue because this was just
a horrible case, but let's kind of let's kind of

(29:59):
start working our men to health back up from the low.
Let's go back up and talk about your poll and
your comments from last week's full episode. So last week
the episode was the murder of Elizabeth Sennet. And just
so you know, I do like reading your comments out
on air. It is part of my process now to
help my mental health go from the lowest low, picking

(30:23):
me back up. So I do appreciate your comments. It
really has. It has definitely become part of my process
in decompressing after I have to record these horrendous episodes.
So thank you so much for all of you who
write it and thank you so much for all of
you who answer my poll questions, and if you haven't
done so yet, please send me a comment, please answer

(30:45):
the poll question. Like I said, it does help me
greatly to decompress after each episode. So, like I was saying,
last week's episode was the murder of Elizabeth Sennett, and
my question was do you feel sympathy for Kenneth? And
one one hundred percent of y'all said no, you felt
no sympathy for Kenneth. Hazel said, I really like it

(31:06):
that you give advice on your podcast to look for
other options to solve their problems other than murder, like
confess your mistakes and stop making the mistake, divorce your wife,
stop spending, make payment plans. Sometimes people think so deep
into their problems that they can't think straight. If more
podcasters can remind people of alternatives, I think it would
be very useful. Thank you so much, Hazel for that comment. Yeah,

(31:30):
I do try to put out some options out there,
like I mean, let's try something else other than murder, obviously,
So thank you so much, Hazel. Luna Cat said, loved it,
Love you too. I mean, I know you're talking about
the episode but love you too, Luna Cat. Okay, TL,
we all know who TL is by now. I'm not
even gonna try it because I'm probably gonna fall into

(31:50):
another laughing fit. So we're just gonna say, TLTL, I
love you. You know I love you. TL said, I
don't agree with trying experimental drugs on people, but I
don't feel bad. That's exactly what I thought. Tl. TL
goes on to say, I like that my name tickled you.
You made me laugh. I like that you're a good sport.
I really, I'm really happy that you were not offended

(32:13):
by me laughing, and t L says the T part
of her name means quote forever grateful to God. Last
name is made up. Okay, got you. I'm going to
continue calling you TL because I'm still five and I
cannot get through your name without laughing. One day I will.
I'm gonna continuously say it to myself so that the

(32:35):
next time you leave a comment. I can't promise the
next time. One time when you leave a comment, I'll
be able to say your name, but by then I
might be used to calling you TL. But I do
love your name, and I do love that you're a
good sport and I do love that you're a lamb
and you're a supporter. Thank you so much. T L.
Joholy Cakes twenty four said love your voice and telling

(32:57):
Thank you, Joholy Cakes. My brother says, my voice is annoying,
and he laughs at my tellings. And for the episode
of the case of Sila Lebar, Alexandra Dune says, the
police should have been held accountable for being so laxadaisical
in all aspects of this case. I mean, yeah, a

(33:18):
lot of people should have been held accountable. That was
She's freaking crazy, That's all I can say. A lot
of people should have been held accountable. And Christina Bobo
went back all the way to season three and listened
to our last full episode there, remember the interview with
Haarah McLeod. So she just listened to it and she said,

(33:39):
quote just finished the interview with Hararah McLeod, and who
I'm in tears. The system failed her, Prince, the eldest son,
his mom, Joaquim's mom, and only God knows who else
destroyed by Joaquim. I don't believe in the death penalty
because I prefer the purpose to suffer in prison and
end in misery but Joaquim and then she has the

(34:00):
skull bones crossing skull bones. That's for sure. Heavy story aside,
it was an amazing interview. She would shed light on
how fudged up the system really is. Harrah is a
hero using her experience to help others. The strength in
her voice. Oh, I don't know how she managed one
one hundred and fifty thousand dollars plus and she lost
her child, that judge girl. So much of this interview

(34:24):
had me ready to mollywop the computer. Can't wait to
get the book. Also, Kai, you asked all the right questions.
You stay on point for real. Lastly, so glad Harrah
is still in touch with the eldest son because he
lost his mother, she lost her son. They're bonded through trauma,
but not in an unhealthy way. Neither of them will

(34:44):
ever be the same, but at least they will have
each other. I want to listen to part two, but
I think I'm gonna watch some tub to decompress for
a little. Yeah, and as I told you an hour
after the pod group on Facebook, I had to decompress
after that too, and I felt really guilty about it.
If y'all want to see more of our conversation and
you want to have conversations after the show, head on

(35:07):
over to our Facebook group, which is basically the after
show after the pod. If you look down in the
show notes below, the link for our Facebook group. Our
private Facebook group is down there, so that's another way
to get in contact with the LAMB community. So just
join our private Facebook group and it's free. And that's
it for your comments. Thank you everybody for that. I

(35:28):
was really feeling down at the end of this episode
and you really did pick me up with your comments,
so thank you so much. If you have a comment
to leave on this episode, go ahead and leave it.
I want to hear what you have to say. If
you are a man and you have something to say
on this episode, I definitely want to hear what you
have to say. If you are a woman, I want
to hear what you have to say. I want to
hear everybody's views on this episode, so don't hesitate. No

(35:50):
matter what platform you're on, go ahead and leave me
a comment, or you can head on over to our
after the pod group. Our link is in the show
notes below, and we can carry on the conversation over
their head on over and take our pull, which the
question is do you think if a man told you
that he was being physically abused at home, would you
believe him? And before you go, last order of business

(36:12):
in the Lamb Club is don't forget to go ahead
and share this episode. This is a completely free and
easy way to help me out. Just go ahead and
whatever platform you're on, click on that share link and
share it on your social media platform and let your
friends and your family know to listen to Love and Murder.
And as always, I end each episode by reminding you

(36:35):
that it's say it with me now, Lambs. Let me
hear it, let me hear it all.

Speaker 3 (36:39):
Love and no murder, y'all.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
I love y'all.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Hey, after the episodekai here before you go, one more
ask of you, don't forget to leave me a five
star review. It's very very easy and it's very very helpful.
All you have to do is hit five stars on
whatever platform you're on, and if it asks for something
to say, just say we love Lamb lam Thank you.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
Bye,