Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Dark Cast Network, bringing our indie podcasts out of the shadows.
(00:25):
Pumpkins rot away, black tar of fear overflows. I heard
the shriek of a ghost. Darkness seeps into my bones
a night as black as ink desire to run and
hide in the nightmares. I sink on this ghost train
we must ride well. Hello, welcome back to the bell
(00:51):
Witch podcast with Me Swales, the friendly green Witch. How
are you doing? Did you have a good October and
a fantastic Halloween an excellent sawen? I hope you did.
It's now November and I'm a bit sad that the
spooky season has come to an end, but hear, all
good things have to come to an end, right. I've
(01:12):
just noticed on the software that I record this on
they've actually changed the record button into a tiny little pumpkin,
which is just so cute. I appreciate that little update
on my software. Thank you for that, wave pad Master.
So did you like the last episode with all three
Witches having a bit of an ease up in Louisa's
(01:35):
kitchen talking about all kinds of ghosty Gooli stories. I
hope you did. It was something a bit different because
Lily River's the DJ Superstar DJ Witch introduced it and
did the sign on and the sign off. It was
pretty cool for me just to edit another person doing
the intros. That was quite a nice little editing experience.
(01:56):
I enjoyed that. Happy to be back in the drive
and seat for the Bell podcast. It had almost one
hundred and fifty downloads in just over a week, which
for me is a record. I almost made it to
masuren target of twenty five ratings on Spotify. I got
twenty three, so I'm not gonna give myself two at
a time. Thank you for that. I really appreciate it.
(02:16):
Apple podcasts are still a bit stagnant on the eleven ratings,
so if you're on there listening to me on Apple,
I'd always love a rating and a review. That'd be awesome.
So what's going on? I am working, Well, I say working.
I'm volunteering at Witchfest this month, which fest is down
in London on the eighteenth of November, all the Saturday
(02:43):
in Croyd and I believe, and I am volunteering with
the witch Fest staff. As you know, my other job
that's not so which I'm I'm a steward, an SIA
or supervisor and so I'm volunteering to work as a
steward in on the event and that means I get
a trip to London and I also get to see
witch fests and work on the stores and from hand
(03:05):
out flyers with this podcast. So if you are going,
do come along and say hi, listen to your podcasts
and that would just make me have a little dance
on the spot, would be great. It'd be great to
meet you. Also on the Witchy notice board is Pagans
of the North. Physical magazine is underway as we speak Quinn,
who I interviewed a few episodes ago, being busy squirreling
(03:26):
behind the scenes getting the pages together. Ule Edition is
a physical copy which will be available to pre order
on the sixth of November. So get your little witch
emits on an amazing magazine. I will be in it
with a little bit of poetry and a bit of
other bits and bats. Stay tuned for that. I also
did a little interview in the magazine for the Sowyn edition,
(03:50):
which is an interview about how I started with my
little Witchy bears and also my pagan parent and stuff's
in there as well. So it's a bit Swales heavy
the soend. I hope you don't mind, but it's just
good fun to write. I love to write as well
as podcasts, So check that out. Going to Pigs of
the North dot co dot uk and you can download
(04:10):
it there and subscribe so you get early access online
magazines when they get published. Check it out. The last
episode could tell. I had to edit quite a lot
out of it because when we recorded, we had over
one hundred minutes, which is like over an hour and
a half worth of content, which is just too big
for a podcast that don't tend to do very well
(04:31):
if they're over an hour, and so I had to
chop quite a lot out. Also, it did feel a
bit clunky times because I had to cut whole stories
out and some things were said that didn't make sense,
and I apologize for that, dear listener. I do try
my best for you on this podcasting journey of mine.
This episode has been in the plan for quite a while.
(04:51):
I am going to bring you more of a skeptic
angle for this one day listener, just to keep you
on your toes. It won't be so spooky. It'll be
looking at the alternative theories mostly and what mass Whale's
brain thinks of them. And then I'm going to introduce
you to my wage board, give you a brief history
(05:13):
and a bit of insight into what I think about
owegy and ghosts and how it works, dories that are
read and all that jazz. So here we go. I
hope you like it. I've always known that I love
ghosts and I'm really interested in paranormal and I think
doing the last episode just confirmed it for me. Came
(05:34):
to the surface quite quickly after that, and then I
just became obsessed again paranormal ghosts and spirits and talking
to them. And I'm kind of harboring a little bit
of a secret desire to be a ghost hunter. I
just love the idea of being a respectful ghost hunter
and perhaps doing small groups of people like light minded
(05:58):
witches or pigs or spiritual so mediums that have the
same goals. I don't know if you can remember that
back in April time, me and Jody from Mother Serpentine
Tarot got together and did a ghost hunting night at
the local pub in Leeds. I don't even remember that,
and we learned a lot that night, and I think
(06:19):
we needed more rules, but it was it was good
although I didn't feel like I did much ghost hunting
because I would just stuck on the spirit board all night,
and when I tried to ghost hunt, I were requested
to go back on the board. So I felt a
bit meh about the whole thing being the spooky month
it has been. It was on my mind quite a lot,
and so I invested in a few books. I got
(06:41):
this book called Ghost Hunting a Practical Guide by Andrew
Green Ah Green coincidence, and I was so excited to
read this book and it is the most unspookyst ghost
book I've ever read in my life. It was just
so practical and scientific and kind of to me stating
(07:02):
a few obvious things, you know, like really questioning if
it's a ghost, like oh, check all the windows and
the doors, and is it a squirrel outside in the
tree tapping on the window. And I was a bit like, eh,
sciency stuff and quantent physics stuff and trying to figure
out where stuff is before you go, oh, my god,
(07:23):
it's a spirit and then them are already. It was
a bit like, gosh, it's just making me question everything,
which is also good. And also because I've been odin
on the old Uncanny BBC Uncanic it was being on
TV and it's had. The episodes from the podcast were
so good that Danny Robbins ended up doing a BBC
few episodes. I think there was three episodes really good.
(07:45):
I just check them out. But it's this see a
Kiara no Kieff. You know this parapsychologist and is just
is always throwing a spanner in my witchy brain, like
whenever some crazy scary happens, you come along with all
his theories and suggestions that are actually really good. Some
stuff he says. It's like, oh my god, have I
(08:07):
becoming a skeptic? What is that about? He's just so
good at what he suggests. I mean, you know who
he is. He's quite famous for debunking Derek Ocory. I
think he did it on a Most Haunted episode where
he would suspecting that the medium was a big fraud
and then planted loads of false information with his team
(08:29):
on the internet. And I don't know where else, but
Derek swears that he never does research with the places
he goes. So Kieran planted loads of fake ghosts around
the place, and Derek did indeed channel them for a
Most Haunted episode, and then I think Kieran like dubbed
him in it as well. Actually, me and my mates
(08:50):
made these ghosts up, so you're a big broad. Don't
know if you've seen that episode. I haven't seen. It
is on my list of things to watch, but I
think it pretty much Droid Derek Korra's whole career in
just would blow. It was really it must have been
really severe. I think maybe once he was a really
good psychic and then perhaps it wavered a bit and
(09:12):
then had to make it up to keep the momentum going.
I don't know. It's just a theory, and I suppose
we'll never know now because dear all, Derek, he's now
a ghost himself, joining his mate Sam who used to
bring him all these messages. He left this mortal plane
and now become a spirityself. Rip Derek. So there's going
to be a few spoilers because I'm going to talk
(09:33):
about the things he said in the episodes Kieran that is, Yeah, sorry,
I went on a bit of a random rabbit hole
just then, didn't. Ah, Yeah, I'm going to talk about
Kieran and what he says episode where he wasn't about
infrasound and how infrasound can make you feel a bit
weird and a bit watched and make the ground feel
not right. And so the experiment was setting an old
(09:57):
aircraft hangar, massive container space in the army and this guy,
this sound guy, set up lines of infrasounding like a grid,
and then these students came along from the local area
and we're told there's a ghost, it's haunted, and you're
gonna feel it in certain points. And when you're feeling
certain points and someone doesn't feel right, put a marker
(10:18):
on the floor, you know, like a paper play which
had like a ghost drawn on it or something. And
it was really interesting because as they were walking around
in this massive hangar and they were putting them down
on the floor and going like, oh, feel something here.
It feels neerving. And then at the end of the
experiment they got told what it was really about. And
the grid where the lines crossed of the infrasound was
(10:40):
where most of the students had put the markers because
it was the strongest of the cross and that just
blew my mind. It was just like WHOA that must
say a lot about you know that when we feel
stuff if there's infrasound around, then I reckon that has
got a lot to answer for. And one of the
stories that was base on this theory was Haunted House
(11:02):
where there were apolar guy's throwing stuff about and people
feeling weird and waking up. But the house was near
a train track and this train track produced high infrasound
against the side of the house where the bathroom and
the said bedroom was that were having these ghost experiences.
I think he just really got to me. It was
a bit like that's a big deal man. That changes
(11:25):
a lot in ghost hunting world, don't it. So I've
been following this Danny Robbins on the old Tinternet, listening
to and looking at all his work, and when it
all started, there's quite a lot out there. It's with
a look. I managed to read his new book in
a day where I say read, I listened to it
on Spotify all day and it was just an absolute
(11:48):
magnificent listen. I really recommend the book, you know, like
he flip flops in his views throughout the book because
Kira o'keef's there with all his scientific explanations. Brilliant, I mean.
And then I found his podcast his first podcast called
I Think It's just called Haunted. The last story on
this podcast is from a nurse who felt guilt about
(12:10):
a patient that died and she'd got to know really well,
and when he died, she was so busy. Another colleague
said the day after all, what happened to you know
this guy? And she said, oh, forgot to tell you
he died, And then she felt really guilty about that
for quite a long time. And as the story progressed,
the room that he died in started behaving differently. I
think papers were blowing around and there were bangs and shuffles,
(12:33):
and the nurses got scared to go in. And then
very last night apparently she worked there, she saw a
ball of light coming down the corridor, which reminded me
of the ball of light from the list story, you know,
like the orb, the glowing orb that walks towards it
and then she goes and covers it. Reminded me of that,
and that's why it's in my memory. All these nurses,
I think the free night nurse, and they were all
(12:54):
looking at going like, oh my gosh, can you see that?
Can you see that? They were like, yes, I can't
see that. And so they rang the boss nurse who
came down, you know, was taking it really seriously, and
she walked them to the door and opened the door
of this room, and apparently it felt really weird and
the floor wasn't the floor, it felt like it was moving.
And then you know, they were like, okay, let's start
(13:15):
this room. And I think she quit shortly afterwards. But
then this infrasound theory is again blamed for it. All's like,
because of all the machinery in the hospital would have
made the infrasound travel, it would have come into the room,
and because she was feeling guilty already by this poor
patient that died, and she'd forgot like a guilt et away.
(13:36):
But Danny was saying, but what about this orb that
they all saw, and you know, they all swear they
saw and it was a long time agot, like thirty
three years ago. He said, Well, a few years ago
there were an experiment and the Mickey Mouse experiment, where
a load of people went to Universal Studios and then
after the trip was asked, did you see Mickey Mouse?
(13:57):
And only a few of them saw, not meant to
maybe two are free. And then a few years later
the same question was asked, did you see Mickey Mouse,
And almost all of them said yes, we definitely, definitely
saw Mickey Mouse, and they could remember the details of
Mickey Mouse on this trip a few years ago, like
five years ago, ten years ago. By the end I
think of the decade or something, everybody could remember Mickey Mouse,
(14:21):
or almost everybody. The clanger is it was Universal Studios,
So like Mickey Mouse is Disney to me. That's like
big ass might drop right there. Power of suggesting and
borrowing each other's memories, and you know, these nurses will
have talked about it and started to remember the same
memory because they're talking about it. So then Danny was like,
(14:44):
all right, then, so how was the ghost? How did
a ghost become a ghost? You know, like what was
the catalyst movement? To me, this gilt ridden nurse, I
think it was a ghost. And apparently right at the
beginning of the story, there was a lovely cleaner that
used to clean all the rooms. A few days after
this patient died, they cleaner cleaned his room and suggested
(15:06):
briefly that he felt a bit weird and there might
be a ghost, and that seed were just planted off
the cusp of this mention, and it grew into this
really pissed off ghost, which obviously reflected how this nurse felt,
which again is a bit like why would the ghost
be pissed off? Because this guy was really lovely in
real life and he knew were dying and it went
(15:27):
a bit of a sad death. But he loved these
nurses because they were good at the job, and he's
built a report of them. Anyway, the cleaner planted the seed,
not on purpose, and that grew in the mind of
these nurses. Kierra, No, kith Man, what are you doing
to me? I'm supposed to be a mystic witch, spiritual
believing medium, spooky glass. All this because I started reading
(15:49):
this book, and then of course I got onto this
other book about the Luigi board. Now, this book is
called UIJ The Most Dangerous Game by Stoker Hunt, and
it is written similar to Danny Robbins's book Do you Know?
It flip flops between belief and skepticism, which I really
(16:10):
like because I swing like a pendulum myself between I
definitely one hundred percent believe and I am eighty percent skeptic,
seventy percent skeptic, ninety percent skeptic and it does swing
each side for me. This book covers a range of things,
mostly the spirit board, but also little bits of phenomenon
(16:32):
like on the same tracks. Been hearing a lot as
well about the Philip experiment. Do you have you heard
about this Philip experiment. It's absolutely bam it. It's come
across my radar a few times because I've been odan
on ghost podcasts and stuff. When we find the page
and I'll read a bit. The Philip Experiment was carried
(16:52):
out by Toronto Society of Physical Research, which is a
nonprofit organization founded in the nineties seventies to promote research
on the frontiers of science and dissimate information. It was
a dedicated group of Society volunteers, none of them mediums
or spiritual and they all agreed they didn't believe in anything.
(17:15):
They met regularly in fully lip rooms talked about creating
a ghost named Philip. And these people were all different
types of people, and they were all quite well educated
and scientists and new shit, you know, the new shit.
And they got together and they designed a ghost called Philip,
and it was really detailed. He knew were king. And
they were with a woman who didn't like, and he
(17:37):
had an affair with a woman who got tried as
a witch, and he ended up throwing herself off a
cliff because he was so depressed that she got burned
at the stake. There were all of details, absolutely tons
of it, and they met for a long time in
conditions which weren't Spookuet trying to communicate with his ghost
and nothing happened for ages, and they all got frustrated
and started trying different stuff. They decided to do a seance. Now,
(18:02):
the videos of this is absolutely astonishing. They do table
tipping and the table is off, it's off the ground.
I watched the videos and they're really easily available all
over the internet, and it's just it's bizarre. After they've
done a seance. I think they tried different spiritual methods
for about five years in a room with seance conditions,
(18:26):
you know, like dark and candle it room with maybe
some background music and some incense. The Philip Experiment strongly
supports the idea that both Philip and the wide range
of phenomena associated with Philip are products of the group's
collective conscious and subconscious knowledge, because when they asked Philip
stuff they only knew what Philip knew. If they changed
(18:49):
something in Philip's story, then the answers to this questions
that we're asking Philip changed two And if Philip didn't know,
it's because the group didn't know, you know, because nobody's
thought of adding that to the bibliography. So it's confirmed
that Philip wasn't real and they couldn't tell the future,
and the only knew collective information consciously and also apparently unconsciously.
(19:13):
And this experiment is groundbreaking because the results show that telepathy. God,
I came and say it now. Telepathy, you know where
you can move stuff with your mind or when you
can read each other's mind. Telepathy seems to take place
and exists between ordery people who make no claim to
(19:33):
be psychic, and even at times between people who seem
to have no awareness. It was happening. People were creating
an environment without any belief, but with a desire, I think,
and stuff were moving and it were being ghosty and
a bit scary. And because the brain is so powerful
and it adds, it makes and it improves and it
(19:53):
fills in the gaps, which I've heard before, but I mean,
even that's astonishing on its own. You know, we have
the power as a collective to move stuff with his
mind and to think up and dream up ghosts and
like manifestations and stuff, which I guess all ties into
manifesting you know what you want from the universe. There's
a bit of overlap, there isn't there. I mean I
think I read somewhere that some people actually forgot, you know,
(20:15):
that Philip was fictional because the things that was happening
in the room were so impressive and so astounding. Some
were so into it that they forgot that it wasn't
a real ghost. I'm sure I read that somewhere. I
hope did it make it up? I mean, I've read
so much on this now and propredicted the story, But
(20:36):
there was one little bit that makes me really go ooh.
When all the group came together with this dude called
Frank Riley, who came in to do more experiments with
the group. One of the experiments was they all had
to think of a word and not tell him and
he were according the session, and then when he played
(20:58):
it back many times, I finally made no of this voice.
It could hear a voice and it sound like it
was saying Bernie's hat. So when Riley went to the
group and announced this is what can hear, they all
said what the word was, and the word was bananas,
So Bernie's hat and bananas. But the mystery is nobody
(21:21):
knows how that sound got on the tape. I mean,
nobody knows has that tape recorded a collective thought? I mean,
how amazing is that? Don't I think that's just amazing.
I just cannot get my head around that. This whole
Philip thing is man in my might. Some people really
dislike it because of course he'll do a lot of
(21:42):
damage with it to mediumship, whereas others think it's another
ghost just squeezing in there, do you know, like having
a very good time pretending to be Philip, And if anything,
it just strengthens the mediumship argument. I think, I think,
what do I think? I think both are true? I
think if I'm honest, I cannot say that spirits are
(22:06):
not real. I just can't. I mean, there's a lot
of stuff that probably is just us making it up
because of fear, because fear travels done it. I mean
I went to see Insidious at the cinema when I
was a student at Sheffield doing Joey Design with all
the girls from the class, and we all watched it
and we all shit as pants. We were so frightened,
(22:27):
and the whole room was really, really frightened, you know,
when that face is behind and everybody fucking jumps a mile.
I were really scared. And then when I watched it alone,
when it came out, I can't believe how much of
a par of shit it was. And that's because fear
and ideas travel between groups of people. Things are a
lot more scarier when other people are scared and you
(22:49):
can't help but mirror and you pick it up. Because
we're humans and we take information from each other in
body language and in tone and in behavior. And that's
why I think I love the idea of going on
ghost spirit hunt. I mean, I'd love to stay in
that house, you know in Pontifract near Checker's Lane. Is
it that seventies polygeist house. I'd love to, But I'm
(23:11):
a little bit hesitant to do well known ghost stuff
because I think the fear would not be from stuff.
We're here, what are we see? It's from what we're
physically manifesting ourselves, you know, And they'll be offing there'll
be a good chance that they'll be nothing going on,
and it'll just be humans being humans, filling in the
(23:32):
gaps and scaring each other, not on purpose, but just
because the subconscious can't help. But do that? So have
yet to find a ghost hoar that I would feel
very comfortable with. I don't know. I cannot. I can't disbelieve.
I just can't. I mean, I've had too many weirdy
(23:52):
things happen to me. You like the Coffin story that
I spoke about in the previous episode. I mean, what
was that that was? That was not my imagination? That
was real? Was it infrasound? I don't think infrasound can
physically make sounds like that, can it? But I think
if you're at home and you're scared because you've watched
(24:12):
a film and you're trying to sleep, this argument that
I'm giving you right here will be a good tool
to take a deep breath in a little think of
Philip experiment in infrasound. You'll be asleep in two minutes.
I can assure you. Hello, love the listeners. I just
wanted to stop the podcast for a moment and tell
(24:33):
you about this wonderful new online community I've discovered just recently.
Pagans of the North Online Magazine is a network for Pagans, witches,
heathens and others on similar paths in and around the
North of England, providing a free online magazine, a blog,
a directory and other resources on the website, as well
(24:55):
as online courses offering free advertising for businesses and sellers
highlighting the North of England, but read by people nationally
and internationally. It's a great place to find magic in
different businesses or connect with like minded souls, speaking about
being a pagan and a witch in the twenty first
century as well as all the centuries ago. Every issue
(25:17):
is unique and absolutely beautiful. You can subscribe at Pagans
ofth North dot co dot uk or early access to
the magazine, news and events coming up, as well as
other little sneak peaks and easter eggs. This is a
free magazine, so it's entirely run by volunteers who would
love to connect with your got a business you want
(25:38):
to advertise, then give us an email. You can email
us at pagansofth North at gmail dot com and we're
always looking for people to write stuff in from poetry
to a subject you're passionate about to a blog post,
and all kinds of magical subjects come aboard, join our
little community, make friends, and unearth some more magic in
(25:59):
your beauty full pagan life. For this next bit, I
thought it might be interesting to talk about Ouiji boards,
spirit boards, my spirit board, and attempt kind of like
a little brief history of them and a few little
stories I read that made me go, ooh, that's cool,
(26:21):
because again it has two sides, like how it might
work like team believer and team skeptic spiritually or with
the automatic movement that we create as human beings. And
I think there's quite good arguments on both sides. You know,
I've got an issue recalling it Luigi board, just because
of all the stigma that's attached to the name. But
(26:42):
for the sake of this podcast, I will refer to
it as the brand name of Ouiji board, just for clarity.
Luigi board has been around for a long time. It's phenomenon,
it's controversial, and so its roots. Its roots are really deep,
and it's been around long before the eighteen hundreds when
it became big business in the gaming world, like the
(27:04):
board game world, not the gaming world. Come on now, Swells,
We're not talking about Minecraft here. No one person or
culture can take credit for its development. Origins are multiple
and ancient, having been independently reinvented and rediscovered worldwide in
a variety of locations at different times. I mean, it's wages,
(27:25):
nothing less than a folk knowledge, a universal folk instrument.
In China centuries ago five hundred and fifty one PC.
In this book, Owe did like instruments was commonplace to
communicate with spirits and the dead. So or no like
in ancient China, they used to It used to be
more basic. They used to just be the plan chet
(27:47):
without the board and the words. And I think that's
how they used to do automatic writing, using the plan
chet to speak to the dead and the ancestors around them.
In Rome, and instrument like this was popular in the
third century AD. In one famous case, free experiment has
predicted the name of the person who would succeed the
(28:07):
reigning emperor, and the free of the Romans were tried
for treason and the soldier named as a successor was executed,
all because some rules were messing about with something like
a ouiji boar we know today, which is just mind
blowing in itself. And then in North America, long before
Columbus arrived, Native Americans used an instrument they called, oh God,
(28:29):
here we go to trying to read it sadi lacte
or something, a squadil act board to locate lost articles
and missing people. And the board had symbols of the
alphabet and letters on it, and so transmitted information how
certain religious ceremonies could be performed within the tribe, which
(28:49):
is really coolent I think that's awesome? Oh there's lords?
What else? In France, a spiritualist named m. Planchett invented
the instrument in eighteen fifty three, similar to the one
Parker Brothers now manufacturers. So that's like the little heart
shape one we all know today. They had three little
legs on it, and one of them was a pencil apparently,
(29:11):
and when the plant chet moved, the pencil wrote a
coherent message. The use of this instrument became a fad
throughout France and her empire. It really took off in America,
didn't it when William Flood invented it? Well in highlight
Commas invented it in eighteen ninety two, but it was
a year earlier the US paytent was issued by Elijah J. Bond,
(29:32):
who claimed actually he was the inventor of Luigi board
as we know it today, but Flood bought the rights
from Bond in eighteen ninety two and filed for another paintent.
Flood then founded the Southern Novelty Company in Baltimore, Maryland,
later to be known as the Baltimore Talking Board Company,
(29:53):
and began producing the Oriole talking boards. But it was
William Flood that made his fortune from the board. Flood
actually used to ask the board what to do with business,
and I think it told him a bunch of stuff
like make your empire, create a factory. He ended up dying,
didn't it from the factory? Didn't you fall off the
roof putting up a flag rail? And the death was
(30:15):
absolutely bizarre. But that's another story. But the popularity of
this board took off in World War One when thousands
of State Home citizens turned to the Ruegia board and
attempt to keep in touch with sons and husbands and
lovers that were fighting over in Europe. In terms of design,
what appears to be the characteristic curve of the words
on the board has developed throughout the sales history. You
(30:37):
know that curve curve that we know today that you
see on all original designed William Flood boards. So I've
got one next to me right now. That was the
big design that made it. And it's all more than Monopoly.
At the time, It's just madness. God, I hate Monopoly.
It's like I care, I like the idea of doing it,
(30:57):
and then when I'm playing it goes on for century
and I'm just falling out with all family. Why are
we even doing this? This is just not fun. The
mysterious Talking Oracle, it was reported, had succeeded the Bible
and the Prayer Book in most student accommodation rooms and whatnot.
All them draws no longer had the Bibles in it,
(31:18):
but they had probably mini Ouiji boards or mini Weig
boards wellqt though, and that wasteen nineteen nineteen. Then in
nineteen sixty six, the Parker Brothers were one of the
most successful producers of children's games, and they had purchased
the rights to the Luigi board and then moved operations
from Baltimore to Massachusetts. The first four year after the takeover,
(31:42):
the Parker Brothers saw more than two million Luigi boards
and then, of course that is when Luigi Board did
better than Monopoly that year, and then in nineteen twenty
Luigi Board got taken to court. The International Revenue Service
contended that the Uigi bar was just a game and
because of that it's able, but the Baltimore Talking Board
(32:02):
Company argued against this, saying that the Ouiji board was
a form of amateur mediumship and is not a game
or resport. It can talk to the side, didn't get
in touch of spirits, and it could probably cause harm
to others. But the court ruled against Baltimore Talking Board Company,
so they'd have to pay taxes. I mean, the judge
agreed it was a unique class all by itself, plainly
(32:24):
different and distinguishable from other encouraged games for children, but
the jury concluded that it was safe. Psychologists recognized Ouiji
board as a realm of means of expression and probably
work via automatism to unbelieved it were a bit mysterious anyway,
they concluded, not mysterious enough. Obviously this story is quite interesting.
(32:45):
It could be just a tax dodge, or it could
be something deeper. It's a communication from this world to
the next. It's the Baltimore talking board company that don't
call it Luigi, and they believe it's more than a game.
So that kind of marries that with what I feel
like as well, which I quite like that little coincidence there.
(33:06):
I know, there's some interesting conversations about the actual name Luigi.
I think the popular belief is that the word Uegia
comes from the French and German words for yes. It's
a misconception. In fact, the name was given a word
spelled out on the board when a medium called Helen
Peters knows where. They asked the board to name itself,
(33:27):
and when asked what the word meant, it responded with
good luck, which is quite a nice positive thing. But
there was also more practical and market driven explanation for
the Luigi name. After the name was sent, Peter's revealed
she was wearing a locket that some suggested it had
Ouiji written on it. One of the theories of this
locket was that Ellen Peters was a well read, uper
(33:48):
class woman. She liked the read stories from an English
novelist called Uida spelled Ouida. It's not a stretch to
believe that perhaps she was wearing the lock on the
night they were using the Oiga board and the word
was in the subsconscious, but it starts coming to you
subconsciously and then before you know it, there is the name.
(34:09):
And I think that feels a bit more realistic to me.
What else can I tell you? I mean, I don't
want to just flood your head with stories and history
from the book. There is a lot. There's tons of it.
You know, you can find it out pretty easily from
just having a Google or getting a few books out
of the library. Big fan of the library. I don't
if you've noticed. Right next to me, I have my
(34:32):
Wigy board. So this reegeboard, I say, talking board, is
the classic William Flood design with the sun and the
moon in the corners and the curvature of the letters
made on plywood. By the looks of it, it's just
a sticker on the plywood, but I think that was
just how they were made. I quite love it because
it says Leads and London on it, and of course
(34:54):
I'm in Leads are trademark William Flood, mystifying oracle and
of the package design Goodbye. I actually really love this board,
and I got this board through some of Black Cat
and Cauldron in Leeds the area witchy stock swap, and
I loved it straight away. It just it's a really
lovely item to have and I absolutely treat it with
(35:16):
respect and I have a special bag for it and
some purple velvet that I wrap around it. I tend
not to bother with the plan chet because it's crap. Really,
it's really big. It doesn't work very well. My board
works better with a shot glass so you can see
through when it moves on to a letter. It's just
a bit more easier to use and understand that way.
(35:37):
But the question is how do I think that they work?
From all the stuff I've been researching, And then of
course this Kieran O'Keefe with all his ideas and his
scientific research and his ideomotor actions which you've probably heard
about from Uncanny. His theory is it's the power of
suggestion which kickstarts the message. If somebody moved it for
(36:00):
the sake of getting stuff going and moved it to
d then automatically, without you even realizing, your subconscious would
spell out Dave. Because you know, the mind's always trying
to find the easiest route to make sense of things.
And I do believe this happens a lot. I reckon
in the wrong circumstances when people just want to laugh
on they fed up a waiting and there's not much
(36:22):
spiritual respect going on. I think that happens a lot.
I bet it happens a lot, And I would say
it happens maybe eight percent of the time if I'm honest.
But there's got to be at least at least ten
to twenty percent of the time when stuff does come through.
But when I think about the board, it's like it's
made in a factory by people who probably aren't that spiritual,
(36:42):
who've got a nine to five job earning money for
the family. It's not made with magic. When I create
things to sell and mindfully make them with magic, and
that gives them a little bit of power. But then
on the other hand, apply that to tarot cards. When
you get a deck of cards, I believe it's just
paper and the magic come from the user and the
quarian who has a desire and has magic and has
(37:04):
mindfulness and respect for spirit and their cult and stuff.
They bring the magic to the tool. So in my
witchy head, it's the same with megiboard or spirit board.
Do I think they can open portals. No, I'm sorry,
I don't. You'd have to be really good, I think
(37:25):
at spirit stuff to do that, because it can't be
an easy task, or is it an easy task? I
don't know. Personally, I can't really get on board with that.
Do I believe you can invite the devil in? No?
Because I don't believe in the devil. I think life
is more than good and evil. But everything about I
read about Reigiboard is very Catholic centered, you know, like
(37:47):
the church is not a fine and to get better
you have to bring a dude in a dog collar
vicar to come in and get the devil or the
demon out of it. Like I don't believe that. I
just can't. I don't though. It's just too very Hollywood,
and I think the seventies Exorcist film has a lot
to answer for. But then, do I believe you can
(38:10):
bring in spirits that have hidden agendas? They are not
necessarily bad or evil, but then could cause a bit
of chaos, could be a bit mischievous. Do I believe
that I do? Yeah, And that's why you've got to
ask for protection. It's not as extreme as I don't
think it's as extreme as people make out. You could
(38:31):
just have an annoying spirit wasting your time for an
hour telling your crap on a board that is just lies.
And then there's the argument that earth bound spirits are
up to no good because they've got unfinished business and
they're pretty piste about the life and probably the death,
and so they're want to cause havoc. And if they're
not spirits with issues, then they go to the next
(38:54):
plane or the reincarnation, or to the pearly gates or whatever.
So that's suggesting only spirits who want to cause harm
hang around. Therefore, that's all you'll receive on the weed board,
and you shouldn't contact these spirits. I can't remember where
I read that. I might have been on a Reddit
thread or something like that. It might have been in
(39:16):
a book and then a Reddit thread, and that's why
it stuck in my head with rhymes. I'm not sold
on that little argument either. Obviously, I've got deep seated
relationship and possibly a few conflicting views on all of this.
There is a little bit in the book that mentions
the exorcist, and that is actually based on a true story,
(39:39):
but it was a little lad who were having the trouble,
and he went to those places to get help, and
some stuff did happen, like beds were shaking and stuff
being thrown around. Oh my god, was that in for sound?
But I think from what I gathered, he just went
and got help from lots of different people who were
spiritual and not spiritual, you know, like counselors and psychologists
(40:01):
and stuff, and it just went away ever so gradually.
So it probably was a mental illness he was suffering,
and he just happened to point it all to the regiboard.
And again that kind of ties into the Philip experiment,
because you're feeding this idea, aren't you. When you think
about it, a plot chet's kind of like a mini
table in it, so it's like mini table tipping. Maybe
(40:22):
that's a bit of a tedious link Monty Python style.
But then people use the Wigi board do all kinds
of things. I know that in the book I've just read,
there's loads of examples fifty to fifty good and bad,
that people have experienced, you know, like famous composers writing
an amazing piece on the piano, to poets writing beautiful poetry,
to people meeting the spirit guides creating connections with spirit
(40:47):
that enables them to be a fantastic medium all the
way through to people being haunted and incubus hurting women,
and I can only read and try to make my
own mind up. Some of it has got to be
mental health related. It's got to be. And then some
of it would be all the different theories from the
idiomotor theory and telepiphy theory who means to be a mind,
(41:12):
but not all of it. Some of it has to
be spirit related. It has to be. If I remember
reading something about an experiment with table tipping where some
dude had put mechanism on the table top and when
people were doing table tipping, if the press you hard,
this machine would move a certain way, which meant that
(41:32):
the people who would touch at the tabletop were adding pressure,
obviously unconsciously making this machine move indicate that the people
on the table were responsible for the actual table tipping
and not the spirit. And then when the people who
were in the experiment were told this, it broke the
spell for them as individuals and as a collective. And
(41:55):
then they couldn't table tip anymore because somebody had given
them evidence that they were doing it, and it's like
their mind couldn't trick them into it anymore, it couldn't
fool them. It's like the mysticism is lost. It's amazing.
Reminds me of my own relationship I have with pendulums.
Out of everything, I just don't gel with pendulums at all.
(42:15):
I hold it and it doesn't move, and I think
it doesn't move because I'm just so aware, you know,
like of my muscles and my heart and having things
move for desire, and then that prevents it moving at all.
So maybe there is a little bit of truth in that.
I remember when I was pregnant with Clementine, I was
doing hitting the birth in classes. The lady there was
doing some pendulum work, but not spiritual at all. It
(42:38):
were to emphasize how you can control the pendulum with
your mind, you know, and get it to shake different
ways and stuff. And the overall lesson there was you
are in control of your body. Do you know you
can have the perfect birth. So it was quite a
cold tool. But then that just added to my disarmor
of being able to use the pendulum because I agree
(42:58):
with this and I already know it was subconsciously, and
that's why I can't ever use the pendulum. No shade
to those witches who love it and have spiritual connection.
These are all my own experiences, and I'm throwing no
negativity towards witches and spiritualists that use the pendulum. You
just keep doing what you do our proper respect you.
I just tear so many stories from people and from
(43:20):
podcasts I listened to about stuff that they got on
the Luigi board and it came true. I can't remember.
It was uncanny with Daddy Robbins talking about any Wigi
board experience with a family and a sister who was
really into tarot cards and they got a message through
in the summer that their auntie was going to get
really ill and die of I think it was liver
cancer in October, which is very specific. Well, who's this
(43:44):
And apparently it was the grammar or something of the family,
so everybody got scared and stopped doing it. The auntie
in question was really fine, healthy, She was at the
hospital at the time of the message because she were
getting some kind of annual check up. So as the
months progressed, she got ill and she did indeed die
when the weediboard said she did, which is mad absolutely mad.
(44:08):
And when this we talked about, I think we're blooming
Kieran here we go. Kieran was saying, that's just coincidence,
that it it all got right, and maybe there was
a bit of subconscious in there. Coincidence has happened every
day and we just don't notice them from just thinking
about the post and the post turns up. People call
(44:29):
you when you think about them. To massive coincidences, like
how the world works and the fact that we have
seasons and night and day, how medical coincidences help us
discover medicine that keep us live and kicking. Or because
someone made a happy mistake and put the wrong herb
in the wrong votte or something, while we have something amazing.
(44:52):
But then, as a witch, I tend to not believe
in coincidences so much. Anyway, I might have made that up,
but in my and that's what I heard. What a
massive coincidence? That is just bam me. Now, just a
random thought. Here, can you do a weedy board with
your eyes closed? How does that work? Do the spirits
(45:13):
use your eyes or are they next year also moving
the glass if indeed they're there at all? Maybe if
you are a board user, maybe some of you try
with your eyes closed, some of your tries with your
eyes up, and do a mixed all together. See what happens.
I'd love to do that a bit quite interesting. The
one last thought I'm going to leave you with is
weed your boards. I love them for many reasons. They're beautiful,
(45:37):
and they've got really cool history. They just scream occult.
Everybody knows what one is. You can get decor with
them and stuff, and they are powerful, and they can
be dangerous in terms of mental health. And I think
they do communicate with your subconscious absolutely, and they bring
to the surface things that you probably already know that
(45:58):
are really deep down, and so that makes them dangerous
within the self. If they're going to bring off the
mask that you're wearing to get through your daily life,
it brings things up that you've got to deal with
that you can't avoid anymore. Your subconscious starts to answer
your back, almost giving your other self power, your dark
self power. Kind of reminds me of shadow work, and
(46:20):
that in its own right can be dangerous before we
even think about spirits, So you've got to be in
a good mindset to use them rightly and safely. And yeah,
kids shouldn't use them, and adolescent they shouldn't use them.
Be in a good state of mind, be respectful. Am
I going to continue using the spirit board? I am yet?
(46:41):
Am I going to continue respecting it and believing that
the ghost is use it to communicate? I am yet?
Because I think both of these things happen. I think
I am a lot more questioning, ever so more skeptical
than I used to be. So much more of a
skeptic these days because of everything I'm reading and consuming
(47:02):
online and listening to and watching. But if anything, in
a weird kind of shadow working way, that just makes
me a bit more connected to the spirit. I'm sure
of that. Perhaps don't use the spirit board with me.
They don't need to use a spirit board with me.
To think like there's nothing there and we just create
our own spiritual realm. Reality is a pretty sad feeling
(47:26):
for me. I'd think to myself, what is the point
living this magical life if there's just us making shit
up with our deep suggestible brain. There you go in
a nutshell. That's my views. The nutshell was rather large.
I hope it wasn't boring for you. If you have
enjoyed this weird, skeptical, mystical episode and generally the bell
(47:48):
Witch podcast. Please leave me a review and a rating
whenever you get a podcast from you, absolute diamond, if
you can tell your friends that would be so cool.
Give me a fighting chance to make it out there,
because at the moment podcasting is having such a big moment,
and the big BBC stuff is getting loads of attention.
(48:09):
Those little ones are just at the back of a
concert that's going on, behind all the tall people that
don't need to be wearing heels and big hats. Just
doesn't the back waving look at me. I'm here, I'm here,
Please don't forget me. Thank you for listening. Dear Witches,
have a magical time this November, and thank you all
so much. I appreciate every single one. Have you given
(48:31):
your time to listen to me or my love and
magic as Whales
Dark Cast Network, bringing our indie podcasts out of the shadows.
(00:25):
Pumpkins rot away, black tar of fear overflows. I heard
the shriek of a ghost. Darkness seeps into my bones
a night as black as ink desire to run and
hide in the nightmares. I sink on this ghost train
we must ride well. Hello, welcome back to the bell
(00:51):
Witch podcast with Me Swales, the friendly green Witch. How
are you doing? Did you have a good October and
a fantastic Halloween an excellent sawen? I hope you did.
It's now November and I'm a bit sad that the
spooky season has come to an end, but hear, all
good things have to come to an end, right. I've
(01:12):
just noticed on the software that I record this on
they've actually changed the record button into a tiny little pumpkin,
which is just so cute. I appreciate that little update
on my software. Thank you for that, wave pad Master.
So did you like the last episode with all three
Witches having a bit of an ease up in Louisa's
(01:35):
kitchen talking about all kinds of ghosty Gooli stories. I
hope you did. It was something a bit different because
Lily River's the DJ Superstar DJ Witch introduced it and
did the sign on and the sign off. It was
pretty cool for me just to edit another person doing
the intros. That was quite a nice little editing experience.
(01:56):
I enjoyed that. Happy to be back in the drive
and seat for the Bell podcast. It had almost one
hundred and fifty downloads in just over a week, which
for me is a record. I almost made it to
masuren target of twenty five ratings on Spotify. I got
twenty three, so I'm not gonna give myself two at
a time. Thank you for that. I really appreciate it.
(02:16):
Apple podcasts are still a bit stagnant on the eleven ratings,
so if you're on there listening to me on Apple,
I'd always love a rating and a review. That'd be awesome.
So what's going on? I am working, Well, I say working.
I'm volunteering at Witchfest this month, which fest is down
in London on the eighteenth of November, all the Saturday
(02:43):
in Croyd and I believe, and I am volunteering with
the witch Fest staff. As you know, my other job
that's not so which I'm I'm a steward, an SIA
or supervisor and so I'm volunteering to work as a
steward in on the event and that means I get
a trip to London and I also get to see
witch fests and work on the stores and from hand
(03:05):
out flyers with this podcast. So if you are going,
do come along and say hi, listen to your podcasts
and that would just make me have a little dance
on the spot, would be great. It'd be great to
meet you. Also on the Witchy notice board is Pagans
of the North. Physical magazine is underway as we speak Quinn,
who I interviewed a few episodes ago, being busy squirreling
(03:26):
behind the scenes getting the pages together. Ule Edition is
a physical copy which will be available to pre order
on the sixth of November. So get your little witch
emits on an amazing magazine. I will be in it
with a little bit of poetry and a bit of
other bits and bats. Stay tuned for that. I also
did a little interview in the magazine for the Sowyn edition,
(03:50):
which is an interview about how I started with my
little Witchy bears and also my pagan parent and stuff's
in there as well. So it's a bit Swales heavy
the soend. I hope you don't mind, but it's just
good fun to write. I love to write as well
as podcasts, So check that out. Going to Pigs of
the North dot co dot uk and you can download
(04:10):
it there and subscribe so you get early access online
magazines when they get published. Check it out. The last
episode could tell. I had to edit quite a lot
out of it because when we recorded, we had over
one hundred minutes, which is like over an hour and
a half worth of content, which is just too big
for a podcast that don't tend to do very well
(04:31):
if they're over an hour, and so I had to
chop quite a lot out. Also, it did feel a
bit clunky times because I had to cut whole stories
out and some things were said that didn't make sense,
and I apologize for that, dear listener. I do try
my best for you on this podcasting journey of mine.
This episode has been in the plan for quite a while.
(04:51):
I am going to bring you more of a skeptic
angle for this one day listener, just to keep you
on your toes. It won't be so spooky. It'll be
looking at the alternative theories mostly and what mass Whale's
brain thinks of them. And then I'm going to introduce
you to my wage board, give you a brief history
(05:13):
and a bit of insight into what I think about
owegy and ghosts and how it works, dories that are
read and all that jazz. So here we go. I
hope you like it. I've always known that I love
ghosts and I'm really interested in paranormal and I think
doing the last episode just confirmed it for me. Came
(05:34):
to the surface quite quickly after that, and then I
just became obsessed again paranormal ghosts and spirits and talking
to them. And I'm kind of harboring a little bit
of a secret desire to be a ghost hunter. I
just love the idea of being a respectful ghost hunter
and perhaps doing small groups of people like light minded
(05:58):
witches or pigs or spiritual so mediums that have the
same goals. I don't know if you can remember that
back in April time, me and Jody from Mother Serpentine
Tarot got together and did a ghost hunting night at
the local pub in Leeds. I don't even remember that,
and we learned a lot that night, and I think
(06:19):
we needed more rules, but it was it was good
although I didn't feel like I did much ghost hunting
because I would just stuck on the spirit board all night,
and when I tried to ghost hunt, I were requested
to go back on the board. So I felt a
bit meh about the whole thing being the spooky month
it has been. It was on my mind quite a lot,
and so I invested in a few books. I got
(06:41):
this book called Ghost Hunting a Practical Guide by Andrew
Green Ah Green coincidence, and I was so excited to
read this book and it is the most unspookyst ghost
book I've ever read in my life. It was just
so practical and scientific and kind of to me stating
(07:02):
a few obvious things, you know, like really questioning if
it's a ghost, like oh, check all the windows and
the doors, and is it a squirrel outside in the
tree tapping on the window. And I was a bit like, eh,
sciency stuff and quantent physics stuff and trying to figure
out where stuff is before you go, oh, my god,
(07:23):
it's a spirit and then them are already. It was
a bit like, gosh, it's just making me question everything,
which is also good. And also because I've been odin
on the old Uncanny BBC Uncanic it was being on
TV and it's had. The episodes from the podcast were
so good that Danny Robbins ended up doing a BBC
few episodes. I think there was three episodes really good.
(07:45):
I just check them out. But it's this see a
Kiara no Kieff. You know this parapsychologist and is just
is always throwing a spanner in my witchy brain, like
whenever some crazy scary happens, you come along with all
his theories and suggestions that are actually really good. Some
stuff he says. It's like, oh my god, have I
(08:07):
becoming a skeptic? What is that about? He's just so
good at what he suggests. I mean, you know who
he is. He's quite famous for debunking Derek Ocory. I
think he did it on a Most Haunted episode where
he would suspecting that the medium was a big fraud
and then planted loads of false information with his team
(08:29):
on the internet. And I don't know where else, but
Derek swears that he never does research with the places
he goes. So Kieran planted loads of fake ghosts around
the place, and Derek did indeed channel them for a
Most Haunted episode, and then I think Kieran like dubbed
him in it as well. Actually, me and my mates
(08:50):
made these ghosts up, so you're a big broad. Don't
know if you've seen that episode. I haven't seen. It
is on my list of things to watch, but I
think it pretty much Droid Derek Korra's whole career in
just would blow. It was really it must have been
really severe. I think maybe once he was a really
good psychic and then perhaps it wavered a bit and
(09:12):
then had to make it up to keep the momentum going.
I don't know. It's just a theory, and I suppose
we'll never know now because dear all, Derek, he's now
a ghost himself, joining his mate Sam who used to
bring him all these messages. He left this mortal plane
and now become a spirityself. Rip Derek. So there's going
to be a few spoilers because I'm going to talk
(09:33):
about the things he said in the episodes Kieran that is, Yeah, sorry,
I went on a bit of a random rabbit hole
just then, didn't. Ah, Yeah, I'm going to talk about
Kieran and what he says episode where he wasn't about
infrasound and how infrasound can make you feel a bit
weird and a bit watched and make the ground feel
not right. And so the experiment was setting an old
(09:57):
aircraft hangar, massive container space in the army and this guy,
this sound guy, set up lines of infrasounding like a grid,
and then these students came along from the local area
and we're told there's a ghost, it's haunted, and you're
gonna feel it in certain points. And when you're feeling
certain points and someone doesn't feel right, put a marker
(10:18):
on the floor, you know, like a paper play which
had like a ghost drawn on it or something. And
it was really interesting because as they were walking around
in this massive hangar and they were putting them down
on the floor and going like, oh, feel something here.
It feels neerving. And then at the end of the
experiment they got told what it was really about. And
the grid where the lines crossed of the infrasound was
(10:40):
where most of the students had put the markers because
it was the strongest of the cross and that just
blew my mind. It was just like WHOA that must
say a lot about you know that when we feel
stuff if there's infrasound around, then I reckon that has
got a lot to answer for. And one of the
stories that was base on this theory was Haunted House
(11:02):
where there were apolar guy's throwing stuff about and people
feeling weird and waking up. But the house was near
a train track and this train track produced high infrasound
against the side of the house where the bathroom and
the said bedroom was that were having these ghost experiences.
I think he just really got to me. It was
a bit like that's a big deal man. That changes
(11:25):
a lot in ghost hunting world, don't it. So I've
been following this Danny Robbins on the old Tinternet, listening
to and looking at all his work, and when it
all started, there's quite a lot out there. It's with
a look. I managed to read his new book in
a day where I say read, I listened to it
on Spotify all day and it was just an absolute
(11:48):
magnificent listen. I really recommend the book, you know, like
he flip flops in his views throughout the book because
Kira o'keef's there with all his scientific explanations. Brilliant, I mean.
And then I found his podcast his first podcast called
I Think It's just called Haunted. The last story on
this podcast is from a nurse who felt guilt about
(12:10):
a patient that died and she'd got to know really well,
and when he died, she was so busy. Another colleague
said the day after all, what happened to you know
this guy? And she said, oh, forgot to tell you
he died, And then she felt really guilty about that
for quite a long time. And as the story progressed,
the room that he died in started behaving differently. I
think papers were blowing around and there were bangs and shuffles,
(12:33):
and the nurses got scared to go in. And then
very last night apparently she worked there, she saw a
ball of light coming down the corridor, which reminded me
of the ball of light from the list story, you know,
like the orb, the glowing orb that walks towards it
and then she goes and covers it. Reminded me of that,
and that's why it's in my memory. All these nurses,
I think the free night nurse, and they were all
(12:54):
looking at going like, oh my gosh, can you see that?
Can you see that? They were like, yes, I can't
see that. And so they rang the boss nurse who
came down, you know, was taking it really seriously, and
she walked them to the door and opened the door
of this room, and apparently it felt really weird and
the floor wasn't the floor, it felt like it was moving.
And then you know, they were like, okay, let's start
(13:15):
this room. And I think she quit shortly afterwards. But
then this infrasound theory is again blamed for it. All's like,
because of all the machinery in the hospital would have
made the infrasound travel, it would have come into the room,
and because she was feeling guilty already by this poor
patient that died, and she'd forgot like a guilt et away.
(13:36):
But Danny was saying, but what about this orb that
they all saw, and you know, they all swear they
saw and it was a long time agot, like thirty
three years ago. He said, Well, a few years ago
there were an experiment and the Mickey Mouse experiment, where
a load of people went to Universal Studios and then
after the trip was asked, did you see Mickey Mouse?
(13:57):
And only a few of them saw, not meant to
maybe two are free. And then a few years later
the same question was asked, did you see Mickey Mouse,
And almost all of them said yes, we definitely, definitely
saw Mickey Mouse, and they could remember the details of
Mickey Mouse on this trip a few years ago, like
five years ago, ten years ago. By the end I
think of the decade or something, everybody could remember Mickey Mouse,
(14:21):
or almost everybody. The clanger is it was Universal Studios,
So like Mickey Mouse is Disney to me. That's like
big ass might drop right there. Power of suggesting and
borrowing each other's memories, and you know, these nurses will
have talked about it and started to remember the same
memory because they're talking about it. So then Danny was like,
(14:44):
all right, then, so how was the ghost? How did
a ghost become a ghost? You know, like what was
the catalyst movement? To me, this gilt ridden nurse, I
think it was a ghost. And apparently right at the
beginning of the story, there was a lovely cleaner that
used to clean all the rooms. A few days after
this patient died, they cleaner cleaned his room and suggested
(15:06):
briefly that he felt a bit weird and there might
be a ghost, and that seed were just planted off
the cusp of this mention, and it grew into this
really pissed off ghost, which obviously reflected how this nurse felt,
which again is a bit like why would the ghost
be pissed off? Because this guy was really lovely in
real life and he knew were dying and it went
(15:27):
a bit of a sad death. But he loved these
nurses because they were good at the job, and he's
built a report of them. Anyway, the cleaner planted the seed,
not on purpose, and that grew in the mind of
these nurses. Kierra, No, kith Man, what are you doing
to me? I'm supposed to be a mystic witch, spiritual
believing medium, spooky glass. All this because I started reading
(15:49):
this book, and then of course I got onto this
other book about the Luigi board. Now, this book is
called UIJ The Most Dangerous Game by Stoker Hunt, and
it is written similar to Danny Robbins's book Do you Know?
It flip flops between belief and skepticism, which I really
(16:10):
like because I swing like a pendulum myself between I
definitely one hundred percent believe and I am eighty percent skeptic,
seventy percent skeptic, ninety percent skeptic and it does swing
each side for me. This book covers a range of things,
mostly the spirit board, but also little bits of phenomenon
(16:32):
like on the same tracks. Been hearing a lot as
well about the Philip experiment. Do you have you heard
about this Philip experiment. It's absolutely bam it. It's come
across my radar a few times because I've been odan
on ghost podcasts and stuff. When we find the page
and I'll read a bit. The Philip Experiment was carried
(16:52):
out by Toronto Society of Physical Research, which is a
nonprofit organization founded in the nineties seventies to promote research
on the frontiers of science and dissimate information. It was
a dedicated group of Society volunteers, none of them mediums
or spiritual and they all agreed they didn't believe in anything.
(17:15):
They met regularly in fully lip rooms talked about creating
a ghost named Philip. And these people were all different
types of people, and they were all quite well educated
and scientists and new shit, you know, the new shit.
And they got together and they designed a ghost called Philip,
and it was really detailed. He knew were king. And
they were with a woman who didn't like, and he
(17:37):
had an affair with a woman who got tried as
a witch, and he ended up throwing herself off a
cliff because he was so depressed that she got burned
at the stake. There were all of details, absolutely tons
of it, and they met for a long time in
conditions which weren't Spookuet trying to communicate with his ghost
and nothing happened for ages, and they all got frustrated
and started trying different stuff. They decided to do a seance. Now,
(18:02):
the videos of this is absolutely astonishing. They do table
tipping and the table is off, it's off the ground.
I watched the videos and they're really easily available all
over the internet, and it's just it's bizarre. After they've
done a seance. I think they tried different spiritual methods
for about five years in a room with seance conditions,
(18:26):
you know, like dark and candle it room with maybe
some background music and some incense. The Philip Experiment strongly
supports the idea that both Philip and the wide range
of phenomena associated with Philip are products of the group's
collective conscious and subconscious knowledge, because when they asked Philip
stuff they only knew what Philip knew. If they changed
(18:49):
something in Philip's story, then the answers to this questions
that we're asking Philip changed two And if Philip didn't know,
it's because the group didn't know, you know, because nobody's
thought of adding that to the bibliography. So it's confirmed
that Philip wasn't real and they couldn't tell the future,
and the only knew collective information consciously and also apparently unconsciously.
(19:13):
And this experiment is groundbreaking because the results show that telepathy. God,
I came and say it now. Telepathy, you know where
you can move stuff with your mind or when you
can read each other's mind. Telepathy seems to take place
and exists between ordery people who make no claim to
(19:33):
be psychic, and even at times between people who seem
to have no awareness. It was happening. People were creating
an environment without any belief, but with a desire, I think,
and stuff were moving and it were being ghosty and
a bit scary. And because the brain is so powerful
and it adds, it makes and it improves and it
(19:53):
fills in the gaps, which I've heard before, but I mean,
even that's astonishing on its own. You know, we have
the power as a collective to move stuff with his
mind and to think up and dream up ghosts and
like manifestations and stuff, which I guess all ties into
manifesting you know what you want from the universe. There's
a bit of overlap, there isn't there. I mean I
think I read somewhere that some people actually forgot, you know,
(20:15):
that Philip was fictional because the things that was happening
in the room were so impressive and so astounding. Some
were so into it that they forgot that it wasn't
a real ghost. I'm sure I read that somewhere. I
hope did it make it up? I mean, I've read
so much on this now and propredicted the story, But
(20:36):
there was one little bit that makes me really go ooh.
When all the group came together with this dude called
Frank Riley, who came in to do more experiments with
the group. One of the experiments was they all had
to think of a word and not tell him and
he were according the session, and then when he played
(20:58):
it back many times, I finally made no of this voice.
It could hear a voice and it sound like it
was saying Bernie's hat. So when Riley went to the
group and announced this is what can hear, they all
said what the word was, and the word was bananas,
So Bernie's hat and bananas. But the mystery is nobody
(21:21):
knows how that sound got on the tape. I mean,
nobody knows has that tape recorded a collective thought? I mean,
how amazing is that? Don't I think that's just amazing.
I just cannot get my head around that. This whole
Philip thing is man in my might. Some people really
dislike it because of course he'll do a lot of
(21:42):
damage with it to mediumship, whereas others think it's another
ghost just squeezing in there, do you know, like having
a very good time pretending to be Philip, And if anything,
it just strengthens the mediumship argument. I think, I think,
what do I think? I think both are true? I
think if I'm honest, I cannot say that spirits are
(22:06):
not real. I just can't. I mean, there's a lot
of stuff that probably is just us making it up
because of fear, because fear travels done it. I mean
I went to see Insidious at the cinema when I
was a student at Sheffield doing Joey Design with all
the girls from the class, and we all watched it
and we all shit as pants. We were so frightened,
(22:27):
and the whole room was really, really frightened, you know,
when that face is behind and everybody fucking jumps a mile.
I were really scared. And then when I watched it alone,
when it came out, I can't believe how much of
a par of shit it was. And that's because fear
and ideas travel between groups of people. Things are a
lot more scarier when other people are scared and you
(22:49):
can't help but mirror and you pick it up. Because
we're humans and we take information from each other in
body language and in tone and in behavior. And that's
why I think I love the idea of going on
ghost spirit hunt. I mean, I'd love to stay in
that house, you know in Pontifract near Checker's Lane. Is
it that seventies polygeist house. I'd love to, But I'm
(23:11):
a little bit hesitant to do well known ghost stuff
because I think the fear would not be from stuff.
We're here, what are we see? It's from what we're
physically manifesting ourselves, you know, And they'll be offing there'll
be a good chance that they'll be nothing going on,
and it'll just be humans being humans, filling in the
(23:32):
gaps and scaring each other, not on purpose, but just
because the subconscious can't help. But do that? So have
yet to find a ghost hoar that I would feel
very comfortable with. I don't know. I cannot. I can't disbelieve.
I just can't. I mean, I've had too many weirdy
(23:52):
things happen to me. You like the Coffin story that
I spoke about in the previous episode. I mean, what
was that that was? That was not my imagination? That
was real? Was it infrasound? I don't think infrasound can
physically make sounds like that, can it? But I think
if you're at home and you're scared because you've watched
(24:12):
a film and you're trying to sleep, this argument that
I'm giving you right here will be a good tool
to take a deep breath in a little think of
Philip experiment in infrasound. You'll be asleep in two minutes.
I can assure you. Hello, love the listeners. I just
wanted to stop the podcast for a moment and tell
(24:33):
you about this wonderful new online community I've discovered just recently.
Pagans of the North Online Magazine is a network for Pagans, witches,
heathens and others on similar paths in and around the
North of England, providing a free online magazine, a blog,
a directory and other resources on the website, as well
(24:55):
as online courses offering free advertising for businesses and sellers
highlighting the North of England, but read by people nationally
and internationally. It's a great place to find magic in
different businesses or connect with like minded souls, speaking about
being a pagan and a witch in the twenty first
century as well as all the centuries ago. Every issue
(25:17):
is unique and absolutely beautiful. You can subscribe at Pagans
ofth North dot co dot uk or early access to
the magazine, news and events coming up, as well as
other little sneak peaks and easter eggs. This is a
free magazine, so it's entirely run by volunteers who would
love to connect with your got a business you want
(25:38):
to advertise, then give us an email. You can email
us at pagansofth North at gmail dot com and we're
always looking for people to write stuff in from poetry
to a subject you're passionate about to a blog post,
and all kinds of magical subjects come aboard, join our
little community, make friends, and unearth some more magic in
(25:59):
your beauty full pagan life. For this next bit, I
thought it might be interesting to talk about Ouiji boards,
spirit boards, my spirit board, and attempt kind of like
a little brief history of them and a few little
stories I read that made me go, ooh, that's cool,
(26:21):
because again it has two sides, like how it might
work like team believer and team skeptic spiritually or with
the automatic movement that we create as human beings. And
I think there's quite good arguments on both sides. You know,
I've got an issue recalling it Luigi board, just because
of all the stigma that's attached to the name. But
(26:42):
for the sake of this podcast, I will refer to
it as the brand name of Ouiji board, just for clarity.
Luigi board has been around for a long time. It's phenomenon,
it's controversial, and so its roots. Its roots are really deep,
and it's been around long before the eighteen hundreds when
it became big business in the gaming world, like the
(27:04):
board game world, not the gaming world. Come on now, Swells,
We're not talking about Minecraft here. No one person or
culture can take credit for its development. Origins are multiple
and ancient, having been independently reinvented and rediscovered worldwide in
a variety of locations at different times. I mean, it's wages,
(27:25):
nothing less than a folk knowledge, a universal folk instrument.
In China centuries ago five hundred and fifty one PC.
In this book, Owe did like instruments was commonplace to
communicate with spirits and the dead. So or no like
in ancient China, they used to It used to be
more basic. They used to just be the plan chet
(27:47):
without the board and the words. And I think that's
how they used to do automatic writing, using the plan
chet to speak to the dead and the ancestors around them.
In Rome, and instrument like this was popular in the
third century AD. In one famous case, free experiment has
predicted the name of the person who would succeed the
(28:07):
reigning emperor, and the free of the Romans were tried
for treason and the soldier named as a successor was executed,
all because some rules were messing about with something like
a ouiji boar we know today, which is just mind
blowing in itself. And then in North America, long before
Columbus arrived, Native Americans used an instrument they called, oh God,
(28:29):
here we go to trying to read it sadi lacte
or something, a squadil act board to locate lost articles
and missing people. And the board had symbols of the
alphabet and letters on it, and so transmitted information how
certain religious ceremonies could be performed within the tribe, which
(28:49):
is really coolent I think that's awesome? Oh there's lords?
What else? In France, a spiritualist named m. Planchett invented
the instrument in eighteen fifty three, similar to the one
Parker Brothers now manufacturers. So that's like the little heart
shape one we all know today. They had three little
legs on it, and one of them was a pencil apparently,
(29:11):
and when the plant chet moved, the pencil wrote a
coherent message. The use of this instrument became a fad
throughout France and her empire. It really took off in America,
didn't it when William Flood invented it? Well in highlight
Commas invented it in eighteen ninety two, but it was
a year earlier the US paytent was issued by Elijah J. Bond,
(29:32):
who claimed actually he was the inventor of Luigi board
as we know it today, but Flood bought the rights
from Bond in eighteen ninety two and filed for another paintent.
Flood then founded the Southern Novelty Company in Baltimore, Maryland,
later to be known as the Baltimore Talking Board Company,
(29:53):
and began producing the Oriole talking boards. But it was
William Flood that made his fortune from the board. Flood
actually used to ask the board what to do with business,
and I think it told him a bunch of stuff
like make your empire, create a factory. He ended up dying,
didn't it from the factory? Didn't you fall off the
roof putting up a flag rail? And the death was
(30:15):
absolutely bizarre. But that's another story. But the popularity of
this board took off in World War One when thousands
of State Home citizens turned to the Ruegia board and
attempt to keep in touch with sons and husbands and
lovers that were fighting over in Europe. In terms of design,
what appears to be the characteristic curve of the words
on the board has developed throughout the sales history. You
(30:37):
know that curve curve that we know today that you
see on all original designed William Flood boards. So I've
got one next to me right now. That was the
big design that made it. And it's all more than Monopoly.
At the time, It's just madness. God, I hate Monopoly.
It's like I care, I like the idea of doing it,
(30:57):
and then when I'm playing it goes on for century
and I'm just falling out with all family. Why are
we even doing this? This is just not fun. The
mysterious Talking Oracle, it was reported, had succeeded the Bible
and the Prayer Book in most student accommodation rooms and whatnot.
All them draws no longer had the Bibles in it,
(31:18):
but they had probably mini Ouiji boards or mini Weig
boards wellqt though, and that wasteen nineteen nineteen. Then in
nineteen sixty six, the Parker Brothers were one of the
most successful producers of children's games, and they had purchased
the rights to the Luigi board and then moved operations
from Baltimore to Massachusetts. The first four year after the takeover,
(31:42):
the Parker Brothers saw more than two million Luigi boards
and then, of course that is when Luigi Board did
better than Monopoly that year, and then in nineteen twenty
Luigi Board got taken to court. The International Revenue Service
contended that the Uigi bar was just a game and
because of that it's able, but the Baltimore Talking Board
(32:02):
Company argued against this, saying that the Ouiji board was
a form of amateur mediumship and is not a game
or resport. It can talk to the side, didn't get
in touch of spirits, and it could probably cause harm
to others. But the court ruled against Baltimore Talking Board Company,
so they'd have to pay taxes. I mean, the judge
agreed it was a unique class all by itself, plainly
(32:24):
different and distinguishable from other encouraged games for children, but
the jury concluded that it was safe. Psychologists recognized Ouiji
board as a realm of means of expression and probably
work via automatism to unbelieved it were a bit mysterious anyway,
they concluded, not mysterious enough. Obviously this story is quite interesting.
(32:45):
It could be just a tax dodge, or it could
be something deeper. It's a communication from this world to
the next. It's the Baltimore talking board company that don't
call it Luigi, and they believe it's more than a game.
So that kind of marries that with what I feel
like as well, which I quite like that little coincidence there.
(33:06):
I know, there's some interesting conversations about the actual name Luigi.
I think the popular belief is that the word Uegia
comes from the French and German words for yes. It's
a misconception. In fact, the name was given a word
spelled out on the board when a medium called Helen
Peters knows where. They asked the board to name itself,
(33:27):
and when asked what the word meant, it responded with
good luck, which is quite a nice positive thing. But
there was also more practical and market driven explanation for
the Luigi name. After the name was sent, Peter's revealed
she was wearing a locket that some suggested it had
Ouiji written on it. One of the theories of this
locket was that Ellen Peters was a well read, uper
(33:48):
class woman. She liked the read stories from an English
novelist called Uida spelled Ouida. It's not a stretch to
believe that perhaps she was wearing the lock on the
night they were using the Oiga board and the word
was in the subsconscious, but it starts coming to you
subconsciously and then before you know it, there is the name.
(34:09):
And I think that feels a bit more realistic to me.
What else can I tell you? I mean, I don't
want to just flood your head with stories and history
from the book. There is a lot. There's tons of it.
You know, you can find it out pretty easily from
just having a Google or getting a few books out
of the library. Big fan of the library. I don't
if you've noticed. Right next to me, I have my
(34:32):
Wigy board. So this reegeboard, I say, talking board, is
the classic William Flood design with the sun and the
moon in the corners and the curvature of the letters
made on plywood. By the looks of it, it's just
a sticker on the plywood, but I think that was
just how they were made. I quite love it because
it says Leads and London on it, and of course
(34:54):
I'm in Leads are trademark William Flood, mystifying oracle and
of the package design Goodbye. I actually really love this board,
and I got this board through some of Black Cat
and Cauldron in Leeds the area witchy stock swap, and
I loved it straight away. It just it's a really
lovely item to have and I absolutely treat it with
(35:16):
respect and I have a special bag for it and
some purple velvet that I wrap around it. I tend
not to bother with the plan chet because it's crap. Really,
it's really big. It doesn't work very well. My board
works better with a shot glass so you can see
through when it moves on to a letter. It's just
a bit more easier to use and understand that way.
(35:37):
But the question is how do I think that they work?
From all the stuff I've been researching, And then of
course this Kieran O'Keefe with all his ideas and his
scientific research and his ideomotor actions which you've probably heard
about from Uncanny. His theory is it's the power of
suggestion which kickstarts the message. If somebody moved it for
(36:00):
the sake of getting stuff going and moved it to
d then automatically, without you even realizing, your subconscious would
spell out Dave. Because you know, the mind's always trying
to find the easiest route to make sense of things.
And I do believe this happens a lot. I reckon
in the wrong circumstances when people just want to laugh
on they fed up a waiting and there's not much
(36:22):
spiritual respect going on. I think that happens a lot.
I bet it happens a lot, And I would say
it happens maybe eight percent of the time if I'm honest.
But there's got to be at least at least ten
to twenty percent of the time when stuff does come through.
But when I think about the board, it's like it's
made in a factory by people who probably aren't that spiritual,
(36:42):
who've got a nine to five job earning money for
the family. It's not made with magic. When I create
things to sell and mindfully make them with magic, and
that gives them a little bit of power. But then
on the other hand, apply that to tarot cards. When
you get a deck of cards, I believe it's just
paper and the magic come from the user and the
quarian who has a desire and has magic and has
(37:04):
mindfulness and respect for spirit and their cult and stuff.
They bring the magic to the tool. So in my
witchy head, it's the same with megiboard or spirit board.
Do I think they can open portals. No, I'm sorry,
I don't. You'd have to be really good, I think
(37:25):
at spirit stuff to do that, because it can't be
an easy task, or is it an easy task? I
don't know. Personally, I can't really get on board with that.
Do I believe you can invite the devil in? No?
Because I don't believe in the devil. I think life
is more than good and evil. But everything about I
read about Reigiboard is very Catholic centered, you know, like
(37:47):
the church is not a fine and to get better
you have to bring a dude in a dog collar
vicar to come in and get the devil or the
demon out of it. Like I don't believe that. I
just can't. I don't though. It's just too very Hollywood,
and I think the seventies Exorcist film has a lot
to answer for. But then, do I believe you can
(38:10):
bring in spirits that have hidden agendas? They are not
necessarily bad or evil, but then could cause a bit
of chaos, could be a bit mischievous. Do I believe
that I do? Yeah, And that's why you've got to
ask for protection. It's not as extreme as I don't
think it's as extreme as people make out. You could
(38:31):
just have an annoying spirit wasting your time for an
hour telling your crap on a board that is just lies.
And then there's the argument that earth bound spirits are
up to no good because they've got unfinished business and
they're pretty piste about the life and probably the death,
and so they're want to cause havoc. And if they're
not spirits with issues, then they go to the next
(38:54):
plane or the reincarnation, or to the pearly gates or whatever.
So that's suggesting only spirits who want to cause harm
hang around. Therefore, that's all you'll receive on the weed board,
and you shouldn't contact these spirits. I can't remember where
I read that. I might have been on a Reddit
thread or something like that. It might have been in
(39:16):
a book and then a Reddit thread, and that's why
it stuck in my head with rhymes. I'm not sold
on that little argument either. Obviously, I've got deep seated
relationship and possibly a few conflicting views on all of this.
There is a little bit in the book that mentions
the exorcist, and that is actually based on a true story,
(39:39):
but it was a little lad who were having the trouble,
and he went to those places to get help, and
some stuff did happen, like beds were shaking and stuff
being thrown around. Oh my god, was that in for sound?
But I think from what I gathered, he just went
and got help from lots of different people who were
spiritual and not spiritual, you know, like counselors and psychologists
(40:01):
and stuff, and it just went away ever so gradually.
So it probably was a mental illness he was suffering,
and he just happened to point it all to the regiboard.
And again that kind of ties into the Philip experiment,
because you're feeding this idea, aren't you. When you think
about it, a plot chet's kind of like a mini
table in it, so it's like mini table tipping. Maybe
(40:22):
that's a bit of a tedious link Monty Python style.
But then people use the Wigi board do all kinds
of things. I know that in the book I've just read,
there's loads of examples fifty to fifty good and bad,
that people have experienced, you know, like famous composers writing
an amazing piece on the piano, to poets writing beautiful poetry,
to people meeting the spirit guides creating connections with spirit
(40:47):
that enables them to be a fantastic medium all the
way through to people being haunted and incubus hurting women,
and I can only read and try to make my
own mind up. Some of it has got to be
mental health related. It's got to be. And then some
of it would be all the different theories from the
idiomotor theory and telepiphy theory who means to be a mind,
(41:12):
but not all of it. Some of it has to
be spirit related. It has to be. If I remember
reading something about an experiment with table tipping where some
dude had put mechanism on the table top and when
people were doing table tipping, if the press you hard,
this machine would move a certain way, which meant that
(41:32):
the people who would touch at the tabletop were adding pressure,
obviously unconsciously making this machine move indicate that the people
on the table were responsible for the actual table tipping
and not the spirit. And then when the people who
were in the experiment were told this, it broke the
spell for them as individuals and as a collective. And
(41:55):
then they couldn't table tip anymore because somebody had given
them evidence that they were doing it, and it's like
their mind couldn't trick them into it anymore, it couldn't
fool them. It's like the mysticism is lost. It's amazing.
Reminds me of my own relationship I have with pendulums.
Out of everything, I just don't gel with pendulums at all.
(42:15):
I hold it and it doesn't move, and I think
it doesn't move because I'm just so aware, you know,
like of my muscles and my heart and having things
move for desire, and then that prevents it moving at all.
So maybe there is a little bit of truth in that.
I remember when I was pregnant with Clementine, I was
doing hitting the birth in classes. The lady there was
doing some pendulum work, but not spiritual at all. It
(42:38):
were to emphasize how you can control the pendulum with
your mind, you know, and get it to shake different
ways and stuff. And the overall lesson there was you
are in control of your body. Do you know you
can have the perfect birth. So it was quite a
cold tool. But then that just added to my disarmor
of being able to use the pendulum because I agree
(42:58):
with this and I already know it was subconsciously, and
that's why I can't ever use the pendulum. No shade
to those witches who love it and have spiritual connection.
These are all my own experiences, and I'm throwing no
negativity towards witches and spiritualists that use the pendulum. You
just keep doing what you do our proper respect you.
I just tear so many stories from people and from
(43:20):
podcasts I listened to about stuff that they got on
the Luigi board and it came true. I can't remember.
It was uncanny with Daddy Robbins talking about any Wigi
board experience with a family and a sister who was
really into tarot cards and they got a message through
in the summer that their auntie was going to get
really ill and die of I think it was liver
cancer in October, which is very specific. Well, who's this
(43:44):
And apparently it was the grammar or something of the family,
so everybody got scared and stopped doing it. The auntie
in question was really fine, healthy, She was at the
hospital at the time of the message because she were
getting some kind of annual check up. So as the
months progressed, she got ill and she did indeed die
when the weediboard said she did, which is mad absolutely mad.
(44:08):
And when this we talked about, I think we're blooming
Kieran here we go. Kieran was saying, that's just coincidence,
that it it all got right, and maybe there was
a bit of subconscious in there. Coincidence has happened every
day and we just don't notice them from just thinking
about the post and the post turns up. People call
(44:29):
you when you think about them. To massive coincidences, like
how the world works and the fact that we have
seasons and night and day, how medical coincidences help us
discover medicine that keep us live and kicking. Or because
someone made a happy mistake and put the wrong herb
in the wrong votte or something, while we have something amazing.
(44:52):
But then, as a witch, I tend to not believe
in coincidences so much. Anyway, I might have made that up,
but in my and that's what I heard. What a
massive coincidence? That is just bam me. Now, just a
random thought. Here, can you do a weedy board with
your eyes closed? How does that work? Do the spirits
(45:13):
use your eyes or are they next year also moving
the glass if indeed they're there at all? Maybe if
you are a board user, maybe some of you try
with your eyes closed, some of your tries with your
eyes up, and do a mixed all together. See what happens.
I'd love to do that a bit quite interesting. The
one last thought I'm going to leave you with is
weed your boards. I love them for many reasons. They're beautiful,
(45:37):
and they've got really cool history. They just scream occult.
Everybody knows what one is. You can get decor with
them and stuff, and they are powerful, and they can
be dangerous in terms of mental health. And I think
they do communicate with your subconscious absolutely, and they bring
to the surface things that you probably already know that
(45:58):
are really deep down, and so that makes them dangerous
within the self. If they're going to bring off the
mask that you're wearing to get through your daily life,
it brings things up that you've got to deal with
that you can't avoid anymore. Your subconscious starts to answer
your back, almost giving your other self power, your dark
self power. Kind of reminds me of shadow work, and
(46:20):
that in its own right can be dangerous before we
even think about spirits, So you've got to be in
a good mindset to use them rightly and safely. And yeah,
kids shouldn't use them, and adolescent they shouldn't use them.
Be in a good state of mind, be respectful. Am
I going to continue using the spirit board? I am yet?
(46:41):
Am I going to continue respecting it and believing that
the ghost is use it to communicate? I am yet?
Because I think both of these things happen. I think
I am a lot more questioning, ever so more skeptical
than I used to be. So much more of a
skeptic these days because of everything I'm reading and consuming
(47:02):
online and listening to and watching. But if anything, in
a weird kind of shadow working way, that just makes
me a bit more connected to the spirit. I'm sure
of that. Perhaps don't use the spirit board with me.
They don't need to use a spirit board with me.
To think like there's nothing there and we just create
our own spiritual realm. Reality is a pretty sad feeling
(47:26):
for me. I'd think to myself, what is the point
living this magical life if there's just us making shit
up with our deep suggestible brain. There you go in
a nutshell. That's my views. The nutshell was rather large.
I hope it wasn't boring for you. If you have
enjoyed this weird, skeptical, mystical episode and generally the bell
(47:48):
Witch podcast. Please leave me a review and a rating
whenever you get a podcast from you, absolute diamond, if
you can tell your friends that would be so cool.
Give me a fighting chance to make it out there,
because at the moment podcasting is having such a big moment,
and the big BBC stuff is getting loads of attention.
(48:09):
Those little ones are just at the back of a
concert that's going on, behind all the tall people that
don't need to be wearing heels and big hats. Just
doesn't the back waving look at me. I'm here, I'm here,
Please don't forget me. Thank you for listening. Dear Witches,
have a magical time this November, and thank you all
so much. I appreciate every single one. Have you given
(48:31):
your time to listen to me or my love and
magic as Whales
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