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June 7, 2025 • 40 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Darkcast Network. Welcome to the dark side of podcasts.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Our triggers exist because they're teaching us on what we
need to fix within ourselves, their lessons learned. Hello and

(00:39):
welcome or welcome back. This is Crime over Cocktails and
I'm Tiffany your host today.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
I'm here with Megan Connor.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
She is a mother of six, a sex trafficking survivor
as well as generational abuse trauma breaker of her family.
Kudos to you, thank you, thanks for having me, of course.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
So where does this journey begin?

Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh man, I mean it's hard to it's hard to
even say, you know where we're going to focus. But
I was the victim of sex trafficking as a child,
started when I was about seven years old, and I
was somewhat lucky in the fact that we moved away
from there after a few years, and so there was
no like big confrontation with my trafficker or you know,

(01:31):
any any drama like that. But it also meant that
I never really got a chance to confront what happened
until I was an adult, you know, much later in
my life. So I went through my whole life with
that programming of you know what my trafficker programmed me
to believe about myself, which is that I only had
a certain value and that I couldn't talk to anybody

(01:53):
about what happened. And you know, just lots of different
things that got sort of embedded into my psyche that
I didn't realize were there until I started developing all
these unhealthy patterns in my life, you know. And so
it took a couple of different wake up calls at
a couple of different times for me to finally figure
out what was going on and how to get out
of it.

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Who, at the age of seven put you into trafficking?

Speaker 1 (02:18):
It was, unfortunately, a babysitter that lived about a block
away from our house. We went to their house before
and after school to catch the bus because my parents worked,
and in the summers, they were right across the street
from the park, so they had lots of access to
lots of kids. Wow.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
That scary.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, yeah, it was scary, and it doesn't fit. You know.
The typical model that most people in America kind of
think of is that take in movie Sound of Freedom
movie where somebody gets kidnapped and then sold or forced
into sex labor of some kind, and the reality is
that that's a very small percentage of the trafficking that

(02:59):
actually happens, and even nowadays, the majority of trafficking happens
when somebody's trafficked by somebody that they know really well
in their own home. And that was the case with me.
I slept in my bed every night, went to school,
I went to church, I played soccer, I had friends,
and none of the adults in my life knew what
was going on.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
How old was your babysitter.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
She was in her thirties, and it was her and
her husband, and I would say mostly it was her husband.
She was sort of the facilitator, I guess, of the
whole deal.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
So in a sense, she might have been a victim
as well.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, definitely, there's a possibility that she was the victim
of like a coercive control situation where she didn't really
have a lot of choice in the matter. So I
you know, obviously I haven't spoken to her since then,
and the trafficker has died since then, so I will
probably never know exactly how that all happened. I did

(03:57):
submit a police report really only a couple of years ago,
and they did a preliminary investigation, spoke to her and
of course she denied everything, and you know, there's absent
them opening the door and seeing photographic equipment and stuff around.
There's no way for the police to prove that anything happened.
And as far as I know, I'm the only one

(04:19):
of the kids that was trafficked that has spoken up
about it, or at least that has filed a police report.
So it didn't go anywhere as far as prosecution goes.

Speaker 3 (04:28):
So unfortunate, and you see that so much.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
People are scared to come forward, and I get why
you're revictimized. You you know, half the time the perpetrator
has more authority than you do.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
They have more rights, right exactly, And who's going to
believe a kid? Statute of limitations in some states is
really ridiculously low. And you know, just as far as
not coming forward, like you say, there's a lot at stake.
And it is what my therapist described this to me
as it being three levels of trauma. The first level

(05:03):
is when you actually were victimized, and the second level
is when you try to tell somebody and you're not believed,
and the third level is when the person that did
it to you never comes to justice. So there's a
lot of layers there to work through.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
Oh yeah, like Shrick says, you're an onion, Yes exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Trauma survivors have layers just like ogres.

Speaker 3 (05:32):
So obviously dealing with this probably put you into a
whirlpool of toxic relationships abusive relationships.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yep, definitely. I think that one of my therapists said
it very well. They said that we tend to gravitate
towards people who believe the same things about ourselves that
we do, and you know, believing what I did out myself,
that programming that got put into me by the trafficker.

(06:03):
I constantly was in relationships with people and friendships too,
with people who were emotionally unavailable, who were distant, and
I found myself too self sabotaging relationships, if things, if
I got too close to somebody. And even there was this,
you know, beautiful person who loved me very well when
I was in high school, and I could not I

(06:24):
was not a place where I could accept that kind
of love. I had no idea what to do with it,
so I just kept pushing him away because I was like,
I don't I didn't believe the same things about myself
that he did. You know, so that made it really hard.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I totally can identify with that. When you actually get
somebody nice, you're like, exactly, I don't know what you
do with you, Like you're telling me that I'm beautiful.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
It kind of makes me uncomfortable. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, you don't know how to respond to the meaningful
connection and the secure attachment of that.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Exactly when were you able to break free out of
that devastating circle.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Well, there were two things that happened. One was that
as a young mom, I was parenting my kids the
same way that I was parented. So on top of
the trafficking that I experienced, my family circumstances growing up
were it was not an emotionally safe environment. My parents

(07:23):
didn't really know how to handle emotions. Their parents were
the silent generation, you know, so nobody really talked about anything,
and we were I speak for myself. As a child,
I felt like I wasn't allowed to feel things and
to be open about what I felt. I often got
shamed for my feelings and I often got gaslighted where

(07:44):
I would say, you know, I'm really upset that my
brother hit me, and my mom would say, oh, he
didn't hit you. He lightly slapped you, you know, that
kind of stuff, trying to make you believe a different
narrative that's more socially acceptable. So I was parenting my
kids kind of the same way with that, like controlling.
I wanted to be in control of their behavior. I
felt them as an extension of myself, you know. I

(08:06):
looked at it as if my kids are happy and successful,
then I am too. And when my oldest daughter was seven,
I just remember it was a really hard time for
me as a mom, and I remember just getting super
angry with her over something really inconsequential, and I recognized
that I was exhibiting the same kind of anger towards

(08:26):
her that my parents had exhibited towards me, and I
stopped myself and I was like, this is not what
I want for my relationship with my children. I wanted
to make sure that my kids knew that I loved them,
and I wanted them to feel like they could be
who they were without judgment and shame from me. So
I really at that moment that was a big turning

(08:48):
point for me to start reading and researching and finding
out how to do it better, how to do it
differently as a mom. So that was one big break,
you know. And as I started to heal my parents,
seeing my mother ing, it sort of translated into other
areas of my life too, where I started to think
about how I related to other people and was that

(09:09):
healthy or not, you know, and how were the other
people in this relationship feeling and all of that.

Speaker 3 (09:14):
So it's sort of just it was a gradual.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Awakening that sort of happened a little by little, and
the more that I when I finally did start going
to therapy, that was really when everything changed. Because the
more that I learned about healthy relationships, the more I
looked at everything in my life and went, oh, my gosh,
that's not healthy. That's not healthy, that's not healthy. I
was like, isn't that like.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
A crazy thing? When you're like, oh shit.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, I was like, no way, Oh my gosh, you know.
I I was shocked, and I don't know if anybody
else out there can identify with this. When I realized
that my marriage was abusive because it was emotional abuse
and financial abuse and spiritual abuse and all of these
other kinds of abuse that were not physical. And when
I came to the realization that that was the case,

(10:00):
I was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea
I was in an abusive relationship. And then the more
people in my life that I confided in, they were like, yeah,
we know. It's like everybody can see it but me.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
You know, I know, But what do you do?

Speaker 1 (10:17):
You know, what do you do when you've got a
friend who's in a relationship that you think is unhealthy.
And none of my friends knew the details of what
was happening behind closed doors, but there was a lot
of controlling behavior that they did see, Like I really
wasn't allowed to spend a lot of time with my friends.
I wasn't really allowed to spend a lot of time
on the phone talking to them, that kind of thing.

(10:37):
So they recognize these controlling behaviors. So when I did
finally get divorced, like I was, nobody was shocked at all.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Did they throw you a divorce party?

Speaker 1 (10:49):
I've thrown myself many parties since then.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
I used to.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
I've been divorced five years now, but I used to
have a party every year on my universary. I called
it my universary, so that used to be my wedding anniversary,
and I would take myself out for a beautiful dinner
in some cocktails and just enjoy me alone on my anniversary.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
I took that day back.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
As you should. Good for you. You know, sometimes we have to.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Realize what we're worth and what we've settled for, because
there's so many times you think that it's normal, or
this is what I deserve, or yeah, this is what
I owe to myself, but really that is It couldn't
be further from the truth.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
Yeah, I did believe, you know, when I was first
trying to leave my parents' house and wanting to get
married just because I want to get out of the house,
you know, I really I had this moment and this
is going to totally date me. But there was this
song and I think it was Pearl Jam called Can't
Find a Better Man. I don't know if anybody knows

(11:59):
that song. I do that it goes she lies and
says she's in love with him, can't find a better man,
and I and I was engaged to somebody at the time,
and that's what I was thinking. I was like, I
really don't want to marry this person, but I don't
think I deserve anything better than this, And that's where
I am.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
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(12:47):
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Speaker 3 (12:58):
Wow, you are worth more than that.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Oh heck, yes I know that now.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
And attacks what.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
So not to go into like that story, but you
are the cousin of Lori Vallo Davelka Doomsday mom.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Right.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Do you think that had something to do with your
family background?

Speaker 1 (13:26):
So my family background has a lot to do with
why Laurie ended up the way she did, and I've
talked extensively about that on some other true crime podcasts,
but not to delve too deep into it, but just
to give sort of a perspective, is that when you
come from a family culture where perfectionism is demanded of you,

(13:50):
there's going to be dysfunction. And you couple that with
also a church, the church culture which we were raised in,
the Mormon Church, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints,
and that is also a culture that demands perfection. And
I would argue that the reason my family culture was
that way is because it's so scary in the church

(14:12):
to admit that things are not going well and that
there are mistakes and that their sins and their problems,
because there's so much at stakes socially, and so I
think that my family viewed perfectionism as the ultimate goal
because that's what was portrayed in the religion. And it's
really dangerous to think that way. You know, if it's

(14:34):
not safe to fail, it's not safe to make mistakes,
then necessarily people start hiding things and there's a lot
of secrecy and there's a lot of shame. And if
you add to that having a father who doesn't show
up for you in the way that fathers should, you've
got all these unmet emotional needs, and you have a

(14:55):
mother who kind of goes along with that treatment without
stepping in for you, so she's also not showing up
for you, and it just creates this perfect storm of
dysfunction where you can't help, but come out of that
with some kind of personality disorder, you know, and not
that I'm diagnosing, because I'm not a mental health professional.
And you know, admittedly, the last time I spent some

(15:15):
significant time with Laurie was you know, around the two thousands,
two thousand and one, two thousand and two timeframe, So
it's been a long time, and obviously I think her
dysfunction grew. But the whole reason I started talking and
speaking out is because everybody in the media, all of

(15:35):
these people who quote unquote knew Laurie, her friends and
community members, were saying that she was the perfect mom,
and that she was a doting mother, and that she
was so wonderful and so kind and so happy all
the time. And I was like, that is not the
Lori that I knew. I saw her dark side in
our teenage years, and she and I didn't only we

(15:58):
only really butted heads a couple of times, and so
she didn't really show that side to me that often.
But I saw a pattern over and over where if
you didn't go along with what she wanted you to
do or think or say, then she was really vicious
and she would just cut you out of her life
and make her whole family stop talking to you too.
So it was something that I saw early on, and

(16:21):
people weren't talking about it in the media, and I
was like, hang on, you guys have to understand, like
this is. This didn't just snap when she met Chad Daybell.
She was like this for a long time. And when
she met Chad, he was somebody who made her feel
obviously like a goddess. And that's exactly what she needed,
exactly what she wanted, And so I think she saw

(16:42):
his theology as an opportunity to, you know, make herself
feel better about.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
Who she was, so added fuel to the fire.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, I hear so much about all that in the
Mormon Church.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
It is crazy how much I hear about the perfectionalism
and secrets and all the crazy things that goes on.

Speaker 3 (17:06):
Why do you think nothing has changed.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Well, that's a complicated question. But if you've, if you've
paid attention to the Jodie Hildebrand Ruby Frankie deal, it's
the same deal. You know of therapist who labeled everybody
as an addict because she demanded perfection of her clients,
and so in her mind, if you watch pornography, one

(17:30):
time you were an addict, if you masturbated one time
you were an addict, and she that's the way she
treated her clients. And it's it goes along with like
the shame, the sexual shame that that is pervasive in
the Mormon culture. And the reason why I will say
that I think that it's it's it's a thing that
comes outside ways or gets dysfunctional, is because, according to

(17:53):
the Church, you have to be perfect in order to
get to Heaven, right. And it's not that uncommon in
Christian religion to hear that. You know, there's a Bible
verse that says, be ye therefore perfect, even as your
father in heaven isn't perfect. But most Christian religions take
that with a grain of salt and say, we know
we're never going to be perfect in this life, right,
but we're going to try. In the Mormon Church, they

(18:17):
want you to be literally a card carrying Mormon. And
what I mean by that is the temple recommend that
they give you. So there are Mormon churches and then
there are Mormon temples. They're two different places. Temples are
very holy, they're not used on Sundays, and there are
a place that you go for very special ceremonies like
weddings and stuff like that. They want you to go

(18:39):
to the Temple on a monthly basis basically to you know,
sort of learn higher things. It's the way that they
label it. In order to get the Mormon card, you
have to go through an interview process. You have to
go through two interviews. One is with the leader of
your congregation and one is with the leader of all
the leaders, and they both have to sign that and

(19:02):
you have to sign it, and then you present it
at the door and they scan your barcode and it
comes up to say whether you're recommend is valid or not.
And those interview questions are intense. They ask you if
you're living the laws of the Church and the Gospel
to the letter of the law basically, and then you
have to declare, yes, I feel like I'm worthy to
go to the temple. So it is a culture and

(19:25):
a religion where the pursuit of perfectionism is right in
front of your face all the time.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
That's crazy to me. It kind of reminds me of scientology.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
A little bit. Yep, there's some secret ceremonies in there.
You have to pay your tithing to be a card
catering member, so ten percent of your income. If you're
not paying a full ten percent, you don't get to
go into the temple. And in the culture of the church,
if you're not a what they call it worthy temple
recommend holder, then you're considered a second class citizen period,

(19:58):
even to the point where like when I got divorced
and I was trying to decide if I was going
to date people who were Mormon or not because I
was kind of already on my way out. There are
a couple of Mormon dating apps out there, and one
of the things that people will put on their profile
is that is whether or not they're a temple recommend holder.
And it's like you can put it as a setting

(20:21):
to say, I don't want to match with anybody who
doesn't hold a temple recommend.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Oh my God, like the little black card exactly exactly
if you don't have that card.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
And it's also it's ingrained into us from such a
young age when you're like twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old,
there's like this you know, pervasive thing over everything that
they teach you that the temple is your goal and
you're trying to get to the temple, and there's even
a little saying that says, it's like a picture of
the temple and it says is if this is not

(20:53):
your castle, then you're not my prince.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Oh damn.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
From a young young age, you know. So it's it's
a problem, that's a big problem.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Well, yeah, I've already said Disney has lied to us.
There is no castle, there is no damp prints like
we've been liked.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Nobody's coming for you. So you got to save yourself.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Exactly how many different therapies did you try?

Speaker 3 (21:22):
Lots? I did.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
I started off with cognitive behavioral therapy, which is basically
talk therapy. It's helping you reframe your thoughts about things,
you know, looking at situations from a different perspective, trying
to eliminate negative self talk things like that. And then
I got into EMDR therapy to specifically work on trauma,

(21:44):
and that was probably the most life changing thing that
I went through. It was the very first thing that
I processed was my fear of heights, and just because
it wasn't complicated and it wasn't attached to other trauma,
you know. And I did my I did my setup
session and then I did my processing session, and then

(22:05):
my homework was to go up into a tall building
and see if I felt different. And I live in
San Antonio. We have the Tower of Americas and which
is sort of like the Space Needle in Seattle, and
the elevator is a glass elevator, and so I decided
I was going to go up there, and you know,
see how I felt, because the last time I went

(22:25):
I went up, I was on a trip to New
York and I went up in Won World Trade Center
and I had a panic attack in the elevator and
I cried the entire way up and I couldn't get
close to the edges, you know, to look out the
windows and stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
I had to stay like six feet back.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
So after but after I processed my fear of heights,
I got into the elevator in the Tower of Americas
and I put my head against the glass and watched
the ground disappear underneath me. And it had zero traumatic
response at all. So it was life changing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
No, it's crazy. If I was going to go and
test something I was scared of, they think that would
be it blast.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Nothing's a secret. You can't creep up on it or anything.
It's just blam.

Speaker 1 (23:10):
Well, at least it wasn't like a fear of snakes
or spiders or something where I had to go like
hold on or something like that.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
So yes, yeah, I don't yet.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
They're not my favorite, but yeah, so so EMDR therapy
really was a life changer for me. And about six
months after I started that, I enrolled myself in an
in sorry, an intensive outpatient program and it was nine
hours of therapy a week and I did it during
the summer because I was teaching school, so I had

(23:41):
the time to do it. And it was two hours
of therapy on Monday, Wednesday Friday, followed by an hour
of meditation to like calm us down after all of
the stirring up of the emotions and everything. So that
was a six week program. So for six weeks, I
did nine hours a week of therapy and that was
It was really intense, but it was wonderful. It was

(24:03):
mostly group therapy, and it was different therapists for every session,
so I got exposed to music, therapy and all kinds
of different things that I probably never would have done
if I hadn't done that program. And it was really
helpful because the group aspect of it to first of all,
to hear other people talk about their traumas and for

(24:23):
me to think, Okay, there are other people who are
making it through too, or who are at least fighting
their way through it. That was really helpful to me
because I felt so alone for a long time, like
I'm the only one who's been through this stuff. And
the other part of it was being able to say
things out loud. Coming from my childhood where I wasn't
really allowed to speak or have a voice, being able

(24:44):
to finally say some things out loud was really important
to me, and that remains a really important way for
me to process things, is to say things out loud.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Absolutely, you have to process it.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
I've been doing a lot of research and all these
different therapies and stuff, and they even say, like, if
if you need to scream on the top of your lungs,
do it because that energy has to escape somewhere because
it's not stuck in.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Your body exactly exactly. And that's the other thing that
I'm doing right now actually, is I'm doing a lot
of somatic exercises of like releasing the trauma and the
tension that's been stored in my body for a long time,
and I have to say, like, it's super helpful. I'm
definitely farther along than I thought I was. You know,
I did a lot of exercise therapy too. I did
cross fit for a long time. That was really helpful

(25:31):
because it does it releases all those things that have
been trapped in your body for a long time. Trauma's
got to come out somewhere, right.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
I find it so fascinating how the body works and
how it stores and how it releases.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
I was like, holy shit, I didn't know any of this.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Did you read that book The Body Keeps the Score
by Vessel Vanderkoch.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
I have not read it, but it has been mentioned
on my show before.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah, that was It's kind of text bookie, So if
you're not really a technical reader, it's it's going to
be somewhat difficult to get through. It. Also, is can
be very triggering because he gives real life examples of
patients that he worked with and different modalities that he
used to help them work through their trauma. So when

(26:21):
I was reading the book, I was in the middle
of therapy and I could only take small sections at
a time because it brought up a lot of feelings
for me, you know, but it was also a really
helpful way for me to go to my therapist and say, Okay,
I was reading this and it brought up these feelings
for me. Let's talk about it. You know, why is
this happening? So if you read it, it might be

(26:42):
good to have a therapist on hand. Yeah, yeah, I
mean it's good to have a therapist on hand anyway.
You know. But I you know, in the book that
I wrote about my healing experiences, I wrote in there
like very specifically, there are no trigger warnings in this
book because I believe that our triggers exist to teach

(27:02):
us what we need to work on. And sometimes that's
the only way we know something is wrong is if
we get triggered. And so what I wrote in the
book is, you know, if something in this book triggers,
you close it, put it down, and go call your therapist.
Figure out why.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Right, it's for a reason, yeah, exactly to the unconscious.
But it is for a reason.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Your book is called I Walk Through Fire to get here?
How did you come up with that? You know?

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Fire, I guess has kind of been a theme for
me a little bit. I think about you know, the
metaphor of the phoenix rising from the ashes, and I
think about the purification that happens when you burn something.
You know, gold has to be refined in a fire,
those kinds of things, and I think it was I
felt I felt a lot of burning going on when

(27:57):
I was going through some of the most difficult things.
And one of the most freeing things for me was
when I left the church was to burn everything that
had to do with the church. And that felt really
freeing to me because previously, things like my scriptures and
pamphlets at the church handed out and pictures and things

(28:19):
like that were held as like really sacred. And when
I found out that the church teachings, the truth claims
of the church were just made up, manufactured, I was
so angry that I was like, I just want to
burn everything. And it was so cathartic for me. I
just I went out in my backyard with my fire pit.

(28:39):
My boyfriend was there with the video camera, you know.
I explained to him why all of this stuff was
so significant, and I put it on the fire and
I watched it burn, and it was so cathartic. It
wasn't you know, like a lot Some people are like,
a book burning is so bad because it's reminiscent of
Nazism and all that stuff, And I agree, we should
not just be throwing, you know, books on a pile

(29:00):
and burning them. But to me, it was a chance
for me to let go of something that I had
invested a lot of time and energy and resources into.
It was a way for me to say I'm not
going back there and to close the door and move on.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
It's freeing yourself. Yeah, I've burned some shit and it
felt good. It does, It does feel really good.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yes, I recommend it.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
I do too, right, right, I mean obviously you know
you don't want to just light a match and walk away,
but you know, right, take small, small opportunities to burn
something that is going to make you feel better when
you burn it. Absolutely, because I'm a really bad like, yeah,
I'm a big fan of writing, writing down emotional things

(29:52):
and burning it because then that's something you created and
it's something you chose to let go.

Speaker 3 (29:58):
Of, so that's that's very good.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I did that for one of the I think it
was like the Harvest Moon or something.

Speaker 3 (30:05):
I had wrote down all this stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
And I'm like, burn bitch, But it didn't. It makes
you feel better.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, and then all of those negative feelings just go
up and smoke and you watch them drift away and
they don't ever have to come.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Back again, right, letting go of what does not serve
you anymore?

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Exactly?

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeap, powerful, absolutely, So what does your life look like now?

Speaker 1 (30:37):
I am genuinely the happiest I've ever been. I just
there's like zero shame in my life whatsoever. I have
better relationships with my kids than I ever have. I
know myself better than I ever have. I love spending
time alone, just doing things that I enjoy for the
sake of enjoyment. I have very systematically removed everything from

(31:00):
my life that felt abusive or oppressive, and I chose
to keep those things that were enriching to me and
where I knew the relationship was enriching to others, and
I choose to surround who to surround myself with. You know,
I don't. I'm in a place where I don't need
anyone or anything because I have everything that I need

(31:22):
within myself to heal myself and to give myself everything
that I need, and the people that are in my
life are there because I choose them to add to
my life and me add to theirs. So it's a
really beautiful place to be.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
I love that, and I love that for you. Yeah,
that's great. Do you keep in contact with your mom
and dad.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
From time to time? I have very you know, very
firm boundaries about when and where and how often and
all that, and I'm very well aware that it's not
as often as they would like. But I had a
conversation with them just a couple of weeks ago actually
about some pretty significant family stuff that came up and

(32:09):
caused a bunch of, you know, issues, and I I
just told them, I said, I really need you to
just listen to what I have to say without judgment,
and they actually did that for the first time in
probably my whole life, and that was really, really wonderful
to have that type of conversation with them. I'm in
a place where I realize what I do and don't
need from my parents, and so it's a lot simpler

(32:33):
for me to approach the relationship knowing its limitations, knowing
what they can and can't provide, and knowing that blood
is only important when your relationships with your blood relatives
have been positive and when they've been harmful, then blood

(32:54):
means less and less the more you interact with them.
And so I approach it from that standpoint now with
my eyes wide open, with the realization that there's only
so far that they can go until they make the
decision to do the hard work of therapy and introspection too.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Absolutely, you can't make people see things your way, feel
things the way you want them to.

Speaker 3 (33:17):
They have to want it themselves. They have to be
willing to do the work.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
Right.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
You think they read your book.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Well, that's kind of what part of the part of
the blow up was about. My sister recommended to my
mom that she not read it because it probably is
just going to upset her because there are some things
in there about her. Although what I told my parents,
and this is absolutely the truth, I'm very clear in
there that I do not blame my parents for anything

(33:47):
at all. I think they did the best they could
with what they were given, and now that they know better,
they're trying to do better. I really believe that, And
you know, it's my story to tell. And I think
when when you harm somebody, you lose the right to
dictate what that person says about you or doesn't say

(34:09):
about you, And I think it's really important to give
victims and survivors the opportunity to tell their own stories.
I'm very, very adamant about that. So yeah, and I
fully recognize that there are things in my book that
some people are not going to want to read and
not going to want to hear. But the people who

(34:33):
have nothing to hide will have nothing to say.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
So and it's not about the people who it's not
going to touch, It's about the people that it is
going to touch exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
I didn't write it for them. I didn't write it
for my family members. I wrote it for the people
out there who are going through similar things and need
to know that they're not alone and that it is
possible to heal. Because I really spent a lot of
time believing that I was never going to feel better,
that I felt like I was always going to be

(35:05):
stuck in this place where I had trauma and triggers.
In the world is a very scary place. So I
want people to know that it's possible, no matter how
many layers you have, it is really possible to get
all the way through.

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yes, but card work, dedication, and self love.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Yes, one hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
So your book is found on Amazon and any other
platforms effect.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Pretty much anywhere anywhere books are sold. The Amazon one
that looks like this, I walk through Fire to get here,
and then I also have another book called one Hundred
Ways to Practice Self Care, so they're both available on Amazon.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Very nice. I think everybody needs a manual on how
to love themselves.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Yeah, and it's just it's a beginning. It's a tiny
little pamphlet, but it's a beginning, and it really I
wrote it mainly to help spark people's ideas about how
to care for themselves, because I really do believe that
we know what we need already, but sometimes we dismiss
it because of societal expectations or because of whatever other
pressures that we're feeling, and we sort of think we

(36:15):
have to fit our self care into a certain model.
You know, it looks like a bubble bath and a
piece of chocolate cake, and that sometimes can be true,
But there are so many other ways to do it,
and I think people need to be intuitive about that.
You know, what, most likely, what you feel like you
need is what you really need.

Speaker 2 (36:34):
Right, be open to try new things that you might
not have thought of before. Yeah, you never know, could
change your life. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Did you have anything else that you wanted to add?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Not really. I mean, you know, I pretty much do
these things as an open book.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
You know.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
It's like, ask me anything, because really I've worked through
so many things that like, there's nothing that's off limits,
you know. And I think the difficult about, you know,
being related to Lori and having that be my family's
story is that I think I'm the only one in
the family who's done the work to be able to

(37:13):
see the dysfunction sort of from an outsider's perspective almost,
And so when I listen to my other family members
talk about their experiences, it's really hard to hear that
they're still kind of stuck in the same old patterns
that they're going to keep repeating. So it's difficult, and
I just I hope that what people get out of
that whole situation is that it's easy for things to

(37:36):
turn toxic and not realize it. And when you don't
hold people accountable and you don't confront the difficult situations
that are happening, it just really quickly goes into dysfunction.
And there were so many turning points in that story
where different people had opportunities to speak up and say
something and didn't and there were there were people who

(37:59):
did speak up and say something and they were silenced
because of the dynamics surrounding it. You know, I think
about Charles and I think about Adam. You know, they
each had opportunities where they spoke up and they weren't
believed or they were silenced. So I think that I
hope families learn from that pattern and that unhealthy way

(38:21):
of relating that, Like, yeah, it is really hard to
talk about family secrets and it's hurtful, and that maybe
is my number one mess message, is that the truth
is hurtful to people who haven't done their own work.
So yeah, it's gonna therapy is going to suck, it
really is, and it's going to be a long process

(38:42):
sometimes and a lot of confronting painful things. But it
is so worth it to live in truth, and it's
so worth it to live an authentic life and not
be covered by shame and covered by trying to hide
parts of yourself that you don't like. You know, life
is too short to live that way.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Absolutely, just because someone in your family did something, that
doesn't mean that's your legacy.

Speaker 3 (39:06):
You have your own legacy. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
We all get to make our own way regardless of
where we came from. It's not about where we came from,
it's about where we're going.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yes, I love that.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah all right, well then I guess with that.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
It was a pleasure having you on.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Yeah, thanks for having me. It's fun to just you know,
have a casual conversation without like, you know, scripted questions.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Oh yeah, no, I literally I like to be organic.
That's my thing.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Like, I'll study up a little bit, but I don't
want to know the whole story because I want genuine reactions.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
I just like, I like being me. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, yeah, that's your best asset anyway, Just stuck with
it regardless. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Links are in the bottom of the show notes. If
you know anybody that could benefit off of this episode,
please share it with them.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
So important.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
If you want to be on the show, go to
Crimeovercocktails dot com. You can message me there, or you
can go to the Crimeconnection dot org. That is my
nonprofit organization dedicated to helping trauma survivors. Make sure to like, follow, subscribe,
leave that five star review. Okay, we'll talk crime, another time, Bye,
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