Archer Series!? + Strange New Worlds 3x05 - "Through The Lens of Time" Review - Star Trek Universe

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, we have an
interdimensional escape room full of parasite filled lanterns that like
to go boom. We're talking Star Treks Strange New Worlds
three oh five through the lens of time right for
these words from our mystery sponsors. Oh also, I want
to talk about the Scott Bacula thing.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh boy, come on, no laugh for oh boy.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
No no, no.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Star Trek University podcast for you listening on.
Two lifelong friends sit and chat about Star Trek. Miname's
Matthew Carroll.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm David c robertson. All right, so there are a
couple of pieces of news I wanted to talk about
that real quick before we get into this episode of
Strange New Worlds.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Do it man that the Bacula? You mentioned the Bacula?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, dude, like they did this this little STLV trek
to Vegas convention and Mike Sussman is talking about how
he and well he kind of joked apparently at a
convention about when Picard was on, oh we got to

(01:12):
do a Star Trek Archer and then realize, holy shit,
I've set up background for this show already because in
the episode in the enterprise episode in the Mirror Universe
Through a Mirror Darkly Part two, he had the writers
come up with a whole like bio of what happened

(01:32):
to Archer after the show ended, that we see on
a screen for like a second, okay, and at some
point he becomes president of the Federation. So like he
and Bacula got excited about it and like come up
with a pitch and they pitched it to the executives
who were very interested. But because one they were doing

(01:55):
Starfleet Academy m hm, and developing that in two paramount
was like pulling back on streaming expenditures. They said, no,
not right now, but now they're changing their heads, like
everyone is coming back in. David Ellison's come in and said,
we're gonna put more money into streaming. Uh and you know, uh,

(02:20):
Scott Bacula, the fuck is that? Simon peg said that
David Elson is a huge Star Trek fan. Mm hmm,
so like he thinks that the perfect time for you know,
the Kelvin versus number four and more Star Trek. He
Simon Pegg thinks that Star Trek is on, It's is

(02:41):
coming to a to a new uh. Golden Age again
because David Ellison is a huge fan.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Gotcha, And David Ellison is that the billionaire who purchased whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
It was like his family? Yeah, it was like and
I don't want to make it the guy. I've seen him,
you know, at functions around Trump and shit. But I
don't know what to make of the guy. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
It's tough because I am such a I am so
angry at all the people collaborating with this administration that
is absolutely fascist. But I want my Star Trek to
be good. And so maybe there's a hope that this
guy is, you know, going along to get along, to
try to get to get the merger to happen, and

(03:25):
then after the merger happens, like he's not gonna be
so not gonna be so bad for the content.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
Maybe, Yeah, David Ellison's like holding up his whiskey glass
and go on computer erase that entire message.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
I don't know exactly, Yeah, and who knows if he's
Star Trek fan. That immediately makes me feel better about
him if that's true, which is you know, a toxic
trade I have because Star Trek fans can be shitty too. Yeah,
but I but I generally have have warm regard for
most Star Trek fans.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
But Simon peg kind of sounding a hoptim makes me
puts me in a certain place as well.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
It would be shocking to me if they bring do
another Calvin Verse movie. It just seems like those movies
have run their course. And I know they keep talking
about it, but it's just seems like it's had no
traction for so long.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Maybe this merger is exactly what it needs to get
the traction and see those things happen again. But I
just wish they would, you know. You know my take,
we we've talked about a million times. I'm all the prequels.
I'm like, Okay, that's that was fun. Let's do something
new and different with Star Trek.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Well that that that's actually kind of though. How I
feel about it is like they established that the Calvin
Verse was a separate universe. So that's that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, at least it's at least it is blazing its
own trail and not you know, it's not beholden to
the old cannon at all.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I love the idea that it is blazing his trail
so ardently because it very clearly is and you know,
if you've seen Chris Pine lately, dude looks old as fuck, right, Like,
let's do like the Dark Knight returns of Starshrek. Let's like,
not specifically, but let's like catch up with these guys,

(05:06):
like yeah, you know, fifteen twenty years later, right, and.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Well, they'll be closer in age to the movie versions
of these characters. Like that'll be really interesting. And you know,
the kelvin verse we talk a lot about how it's different,
and obviously the characters places and is different, and the
technology is different because of the the narrata like this
is gonna be a this is gonna this world's will

(05:30):
these worlds will play out completely differently, and so that
will be interesting to see because you could kind of
jump forward in technological advancement to the point that it
almost feels fresh and new, but it could still have
itself anchored in older characters. I mean, and you can
also even do I do not want them to do this.
I do not want them to do this at all.

(05:51):
I don't know why I speaking into the universe, but
you could like continue on with that timeline and do
other things like characters from next generation or characters from
other shows. You could keep doing kind of what happens
to the Star Trek universe if this, if the Narada happens.
You know that I don't love that idea.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Well, Ellison was an executive producer on the last two
Star Trek films.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Okay, cool, So you.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Know, I'm very curious to see what they could do.
I like that cast a lot. I would absolutely love
to see ye like a jump ahead and talent and
time and see what they're doing. I just want it
to mean something. But at this point, like, I don't
know that that universe means anything to me. I'm not
sure that's the one that we're talking about now. Supposedly

(06:35):
the Prime universe means as much to me, Like it
just kind of all feels a little multiverse oohy gooey
to me.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, it's tough when you have the multiverse, and new
universes make things tough because it immediately removes stakes and
you know whatever, Like it's if you do it right,
it can be done amazingly well. But it kind of
kind of insists that you follow characters that you care
about and stick with them, and they're already kind of

(07:03):
not doing that and hopping around and with with the
multiverse and the thing that I find I'm a little
incredulous about this ever happening is just the cast, for
the most part, has gone on to big things. I
mean a few of them. I think I think Simon
Peg would be in, just because he's a fan and
he seems like every time you hear about it's him
talking about it. Chris Pine, I think he could be.

(07:27):
He could be in. I don't know. Carl Urbin. I would,
I would, I would want him back. He's one of
my favorite things about that movie. But he's gone on
and done big things since then, and it made a
name for himself to some degree. Zobe Saldana obviously obviously
Chris Hemsworth like there was that whole thing about them
bringing him back.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
I loved that idea. The Archer thing is Star Trek
United is him as the President of the Federation, and
they said one of their aspirations would be that the
series would do for Star Trek what end Or did
for Star Wars. It would be at a very adult
rounded political show, and I am all about that. Ioul
I would love to see Scott Backular return as President Archer.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Ship to me, and Man, I immediately want to say,
like that sounds amazing from a like how do you
establish a democracy? You know, how do you how do
you build how do you build a federation? Uh out
of all these member worlds, and how do you make
like a a organization that's going to function well? You know,

(08:32):
and that would be interesting in the light of today's world.
We just mentioned the fascism and all, but you mentioned
the Andor thing, and I'm immediately like it would it
would automatically be like too close to and or maybe
and Or very much did that?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
You know what I would hope for. I want West
Wing star Trek, That's.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
What I want. Yeah, oh yeah, man, I'm very much
into that.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
There's there's been a lot of rumors going around and
they're not substantiated necessarily, but there's been a lot of
rumors that they're gonna they're looking to just go ahead
and acts at Starfleet Academy pretty much ry out of
the gate. The rumors state that the new executives at
Paramount have seen Starfleet Academy the first season, are part

(09:13):
of it and said I don't like this, and it's
also very bad that we can you can go check
this for yourself when you go and you put the
Starfleet Academy YouTube into one of those like dislike checkers
or whatever, because YouTube doesn't show that anymore. Right, it
has got Like when I sent it to you, it
was like four hundred and ninety thousand, nine hundred and
sixty seven views, seven one hundred and five likes, and

(09:34):
thirty two eight hundred and eighty dislikes. That is a
crazy amount of dislikes. And I'm absolutely aware that people
review bombshit. Sure, yeah, but I mean we love Star Trek.
We root for it every week and every and I
don't eve mean every week goes on. We root for
it every week of the year. Like I feel like

(09:54):
we're throwing silent prayers to the great bird of the
galaxy that it would be good the next time we
see it. Yeah, and we weren't very interested in Starfitt Academy. Yeah,
it didn't look great to us.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
I mean I'm torn, Like I think the the trailer
to I just think the idea of going to the
academy feels retrograde somehow, Like there was a time in
my life I was very interested in that idea. Like
we mentioned a few weeks ago. I've read this some
of the books and stuff, but like the idea of
going to the place where they learned to do the
thing is not as interesting to me as like watching

(10:27):
the people do the thing, which I think we'll get
into when we get into this episode from this week.
So any other any of the news before we do then.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I don't think I have any other news. I just
you know, bring on Star Trek legacy, bring on Star
Trek United with Captain or President Jonathan Archer. Dude, Like
after Star Trek, my wife has been been thrown on,
like because she had to catch up. She's been thrown
on Enterprise. Dude, I always forget how fucking good Enterprise is, Like,
even in this first season, it's so good.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I loved it. Okay, well let's dive
into a World's episode through the lens of time. Yeah. Uh,
I gotta say, man, I really loved this episode. I
didn't do. I really really enjoyed this episode a lot. Okay.
I think maybe it's a response to how I've been

(11:18):
feeling and I was, I was really down. I went
to watch it and I was like, man, if this
is another bad week where I just feel like, what
is the point of this episode. I'm gonna be in
a dark place, And so my expectations were kind of
like in the in the in the gutter, and I
was like, all right, here we go. And then just
like it was like a different show than these previous weeks.
It really was, and it's just crazy and a lot

(11:39):
of it, I'm realizing is just like something that annoys
me about all all Cannons, not just Star Trek, is
when the characters are so over focused on their relationships
and they're like interpersonal stuff that everything's about that when
they have these very important missions going on, you know,
and like thet few weeks, I think it felt that

(12:01):
way them dealing with they has they still had relationship
stuff in this episode really well done, but it's it
felt so much more like they were on a Starfleet vessel.
Like the conversations, like the conversations are about the work,
and yeah, one of them might be a little distracted
by something, but they're like, get your eyes over here,
it's time to do work now, Like we got to

(12:21):
talk about the mission we gotta do. Like it just
felt so much more like a Federation ship to me,
and like that's not even something I've complained a lot about,
but like, I think I just realized it, Like it's
always been something that bothers me in shows when I
shows too much about the relationships when they're fighting, Well,
you know, it's the apocalypse is coming. You gotta fight
the apocalypse before you worry about your boyfriend and girlfriend drama,

(12:45):
you know what I mean. Like, you gotta deal with
the thing in front of you. And this episode did
that really well in a way that like I'm just
I really liked it. I loved it. I loved the
tension building and the puzzle nature. It like felt like
everything was a little bit figure out able. We talked
about it last week with the mystery episode, how like
I didn't know. I did not feel like they laid

(13:07):
the breadcrumbs for the things, you know. But man, when
they were like, how do we walk across this thing?
I was like, oh, man, Indiana Jones in the Holy
Grail right here, baby, you gotta step out, you gotta
step out, Like it felt it felt good to know
that because they laid all the groundwork for what that
quantum in probably like whatever quantum flux thing would look like.

(13:29):
The and it was so cool. It was so cool.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, I did laugh because the ironic bit there was
that like the archaeologist was going, no, don't do it.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Oh, yeah, that's funny. That is funny that this that
was an Indiana Jones scene and this was an archaeology episode.
I that didn't cross my mind.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Absolutely, I did like this archaeology episode. I thought like
I was there going like, this is good. I feel
like they should do more of this in Star Trek
for for fox sake. I had a lot of fun
with this when the ancient non corporeal be wreaking havoc
is a Star Trek classic, but they did it with
a little panache. They did it with some fun quantum trickery,

(14:07):
and they did it on the fucking Q homeworld by
the way, Oh is that what that was? That's the
Q homeworld.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Oh, which means that possibly whoever these creatures were because
this is the same planet that Corby mentioned before and
Charlaine mentioned like, oh they're fucking around in the old Q.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Homeworld or on the old homeworld is what he said.
But uh, yeah it was the same planet.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, I didn't think they'd been to this planet. Okay,
that's that's cool. He was talking about screwing around that homeworld,
but then he was also talking about how he discovered
that bracelet somewhere else, and this was a different place,
so I didn't know. That's so cool? Oh man, I
loved that. The swirling in this case, they're imprisoned in

(14:55):
these little balls and they're swirling. And when Spark looked
down and saw thousands of them, reminded me of the
paw Wraiths too.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Dude. Fuck yes, okay, so you did you catch what
they called them?

Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, not in their language or whatever.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Okay, so both the guy who got vaporized who was
from the Macron or whatever the fuck is called macaroons, Yeah,
and the macaroon with him and Mattel when she's like
you as she sees fuck her in the sick bay like,

(15:33):
they both refer to them as the Vesda.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Pa he the pa. Oh. Now that now that we
got like that, that is a connection I've never thought about.
But the idea that we've got a outside of space
and time being, especially the Collie man. This is connecting
the paw Wraiths to the Q, which could could connect

(16:00):
the queue to the uh gosh, the wormhole aliens like
and now that I'm think saying that out loud. I'm
thinking about like Picard walking around in that time episode
where he jumps into his past self and saves his life,
you know. Uh, and there's that that just like complete
the lighting and everything is the same as when Cisco's
walking around with the wormhole aliens. I'm like, oh my gosh,

(16:23):
could this be some weird like, I mean, we this
is the thing. This is what we Star Trek fans
get to do, is like without having to force it
or make a Trellaine happen or whatever, and not having
John Delancy show up. We get to see her and
speculate about a q a q homeworld possibly being connected
to the you know, celestial temple. Golly, sorry for the

(16:48):
for those of you aren't DS nine fans, I realize
we're getting a little uh down the rabbit hole here.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, so so you got this. By the way, I
love that A fucking ensign whatever his name is, I
can't remember him. Gamble Gambled, Dana Gamble. Well he did
take him mighty gambled, didn't he. You're gotta pick up
a foreign object first of all. Sorry, I'm we get

(17:16):
up and do a.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Thing, right, now.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
I mean, yeah, we've seen it in Star Trek Forever,
all right, with these insigns doing some stupid shit. You
don't pick up a fucking mysterious object. You don't do that.
I mean the first of all, the place was cloaked
as fuck. Second, it required a blood sacrifice to enter that.
That's never a good sign.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
And then when you walk in it's like Walmart all
of a sudden, you can't call for help, you can't
beat him out like Jesus Christ. Then there's a pile
of dead bodies. Then there's a room where the light
won't go, not don't go, just won't. Is it not
possible for the light to go there?

Speaker 2 (18:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Like that shit was on Skinwalker Ranch. Motherfucker, I'm not
going I'm not picking up a damn thing.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, that was a stupid decision a man. So, yes,
we've seen this a million times and ensign do a
thing and die, But like, how often has Star Trek
spent four episodes making us care about that ensign Before
doing it?

Speaker 1 (18:27):
I figured he was either gonna be some sort of
like uh das Makaa's sort of plot point, or he
was gonna die. That's what I figured they were gonna
do one or the other. And when the episode started
and he was narrating the log, I was like, oh
he did.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Well. I did not go there with my brain and
I was into it. I love that they This episode
would have hit a lot less hard if it weren't
for the built up a little bit like, Oh, I
then get to know this incident. He's cool. Like we
joked about how they instead of his name yet like
last week, uh, and like it is a lot of

(19:06):
fun to just like be getting to know this character
could be just a new character that we're gonna be seeing.
I thought he might be helping Minga like work through
his Uh. I don't know how old Aminga's child should
have been, right, Yeah, And like there was clearly like
an affiliation between him and Gamble, and I was I
was wondering if like he was thinking, like my child

(19:28):
could have been this age or something like you know
what I mean like by now, because I don't know
how long his job was in that pattern buffer, you know. So,
so it was just really interesting to see, uh, that
relationship building and then for them to just kill him
and like use that death to taunt him about his daughter.
I was like, oh man.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
This is r Mbinga has been denying his request to
go down into planets for months, like he's been there
for six months now. They said, yeah, yeah, I loved
all of that.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
That was all great, me too, and just create as
hell him doing these He's like for the first time,
he's got the he's got the mask of the little
mask on that supposed to be regenerating his eyes and uhm,
Binga walks away and he like sits up and looks
over at Aminga And at this point, you know, he's
brain dead supposedly according to the tray quorder, and so

(20:18):
like something other than him is looking over and that's
all you knew at that point, and it's just it's
good man, it's good stuff. Well, we also knew from
the very beginning of the episode that there was a
It was a mind transfer, was what they were talking about.
That's how they achieve immortality, is transferring their their their minds.
So I was I was as soon as he got hit.
I didn't know he'd be dead, but I thought he

(20:39):
would be somehow taken over.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, I I kind of suspected that's where they were going,
because one that's where what Gamble was talking about Corby's
uh papers and shit, ancient non corporeal being. Yeah, you know,
sort of sorry I read the wrong line. Uh, let's
see molecular memory and cor corporeal transfer, right, Yeah, and

(21:01):
the idea that ancient man's fascination with resurrection and reincarnation
could all be based on forgotten technology. Now, I I
when he got his eyes blown out, I kind of went,
I'm not sure that's him anymore. Mm hmmm, because I
kind of thought it was gonna be a Freaky Friday situation,
probably because that fucking freak here Friday keeps showing trailers

(21:22):
every on every streaming service I have. But also that
and uh, the TOS episode Korby shows up on is
what Are Little Girls Made Of? Where they go to
the they find this planet where there was an ancient
race who had created these uh androids and had and
had figured out how to basically be immortal by transferring

(21:44):
their consciousness into these androids.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Mm.

Speaker 1 (21:47):
So that's like a Corby thing, you know, as an
obsession of Corby's.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh man, what a what a great
way of using all these characters. I think every character
was used well, even like for a second, I was like, man,
why did they put a horror and her new boyfriend
in this episode? I was kind of like, what are
they doing here on this mission? You know what I mean?
She made sense because she was doing all the translating
and I liked that, but him being there it was

(22:14):
just kind of like an add on. But then they
used even him in like the plot to like his
camera to see that they were all three in the
same place. It was cool, man, it is cool, like
lots of cool stuff to figure out. It just made
me feel like they were on this archaeological dig. They
were curious starfleet officers, excited to do that work. And

(22:37):
Gamble's entire plot at the beginning, where he's talking about
how badly he wants to go down to a planet,
how badly he's excited, how excited he is for this
particular mission and that transference of consciousness and all that
stuff immortality and this lost technology, and he is fascinated
by that. It gave me such warm feelings for him,
and I was so like him, his little his little

(22:59):
voiceover beginning. I was just like, man, I love this kid.
He's great and he is exactly like what we've been
missing kind of from the show because it's not been
about being cool star fleet officers. It's been about other
stuff that I don't hate, but it's like not It
always just makes me feel like, why are we focusing
on this when the world when there are big stakes happening?

Speaker 1 (23:20):
You know. I again, I didn't mind it when we
had twenty six episodes a season, twenty four episodes whatever.
It is like back in the old days. You need
those episodes when you have so many, right, and you
might even need one when you got ten, but like
you don't need a munch Yeah, it's tough with ten.

(23:40):
But yeah, and I loved it. He said, you know
ancient astronauts, Like, yeah, man, there was Chinese on that panel. Bitch,
the queue came to Earth. That's ancient alien.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yep, pretty great. You know what. I loved this episode, Pelia,
maybe my favorite Palia episode. I loved her. I loved
her like wanting to be on the camera, and that
last speech totally fell for it. I was actually getting
annoyed at her for being so because the Captain is

(24:14):
it says this very rational thing. There is no good,
there is no evil, it's just you know, the these
differences of people and time and who they are, and
it's a very scientific man's way of thinking. And then
Pelia says this long thing about how like, oh there's evil, Captain,
there's evil in this universe. I know I've seen the

(24:37):
face of evil, and like this long dramatic thing, and
I was like, oh my gosh, this is so over
dramatic and I kind of hate it. And then when
she's like, do you need another one for the camera,
I was like, Oh, that's beautiful. That was just her
trying to say a dramatic thing. It's beautiful. It was awesome.
I left so hard. Oh no, I totally think that.
I'm not saying she might not think those things, like

(24:58):
in some way, but like she was hamming it up.
I was watching her ham it up, and she was
hamming it up and I was like, oh, why I
hate this speech. It's so hammy. And then it's because
she was hamming it up for the cameras, and I
think that's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Yeah. I think she also believes that, though.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Maybe maybe I think she was saying a thing to
get on camera and that's been her motivation the whole episode.
But they they let me they led me down that
speech so well that I forgot that was her motivation
this episode, and like then then it hit me with it,
and I laughed hard, and I like one of the
best jokes of this season. Like, I laughed so hard.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
At that when she said the bit where she's like,
it gives.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Me to heaby Gebi's.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yeah, that dude was not on the ship with the camera.
She was just saying that shit for real. She believed it.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Oh no, I'm not saying she doesn't have beliefs like that.
I'm just saying the way she interrupts the captain and
how overdramatic the speech is. Her saying gives me the
he Begbi's is much more in line with her character
and the general tone of the show. The speech was
a complete outlier and felt weird, and I was like,
I do not like this speech, and then they hit

(26:09):
us with it because it's her being that way for
the cameras, and I think it's it's a great joke.
It's a fucking great joke. I laughed really hard. Yeah,
I didn't care for it. I loved it.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, I was like, oh, she well, I mean, she's
a little over the top, but Pelia is that way,
and I just dislike her, and my god, can we
get a second take where she does it say corporal
instead of corporeal because those are different things. And and
then like they to undercut it with with that joke

(26:42):
was annoying to me. But at the same time, like,
you know, I mean that's fine.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
I think that's the whole thing. It was a rug pool.
It was a beautiful rug pool. And I hear you,
I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it, but I fucking loved it.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, I mean, I like, I like there being something
about it, and I I thought there was something about
these creatures that, yeah, they're they're completely fucking evil, Like
there's just no two ways about it, like at least
from the vantage point of this episode.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Right and what we saw. And also though I love
the lower this all builds out. Yeah, got this weird
thing the Gorn somehow know about and like have a
weird fear of. And I loved how it. This just
is my favorite kind of stuff. Man. When Spock had
that previous episode, had had interfaced with a Gorn, and

(27:35):
we know that like sometimes the the mind melds leave
a bit of that in the brain that they they're
stuck in there, and like he sees that Gorn like
flash in his brain. I knew in that moment, oh man,
when one of these encounters Captain Bettel, it's gonna get crazy,
it's gonna reveal something cool. And it did. And they

(27:57):
had this awesome fight where like they're needed of them
are themselves, they're fighting. It was very much like the
freaking fire caves Man, where like you know, uh still
felt like yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Really did, and like I love it so much, Like
did like the ancient Q accidentally brings something into our
universe while they were fucking around with extra dimensional technology,
And did they create the Gorn to fight it?

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Oh, that's interesting, that's really interesting, Like the Gorner genetically
engineered species to like take down whatever this this this
species is like it's.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Built into their DNA, I mean, baby Gorn and fucking
Patel sees this, dude goes.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
You yeah, yeah, yeah, what I mean? Well, And it's
it's also more information about the Gorn, like even if
it isn't engineered into them, it's we now know that
they pass like and this is kind of a thing,
like they pass like through their genetics. They're somehow passing
like this knowledge of of of an enemy, you know

(29:03):
what I mean? And we know that they already have
like things like the flashing lights or whatever bring them
back to their homeworld. They already have this sort of
genetic knowledge thing going, but like somehow, Yeah, that's that's interesting.
That's really cool and interesting.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
And they have telepathy right there, just be like reading
reading ship or like the or the paw raith do
or sorry what were they call it again? Vesta pa?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
The vesta pa? Uh?

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, it's cool. I am like, did we have a place?
Do you remember? And I guess I would be the
person that should be asked this, but I don't remember.
Uh did was it ever said?

Speaker 2 (29:44):
Like?

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I know it was said in TNG that Jordy specifically
didn't want implants in his eyes. Yeah, but if imbinga
is bioengineering, what's this, dude? New eyes? Jordy have new eyes?
You know?

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well. Geordie embraced his blindness once he learned to use
the visor. He talks about how his vision is actually
much more enhanced and more useful than like anyone else's eyes,
Like he can see multiple spectrums and all this stuff
with his visor and uh in a. I think it's
an in that I'm forgetting. I think it's I think

(30:23):
it's in generations right? Where is it? Is it sore
on who's talking about how he chose to have that?
I don't know. There's no there's some scene where like
someone tells him, like you know, you can get your
eyes fixed like that that could happen, and he's like, yeah, no, no, no,
I I chose this. I want to be able to
do this.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
You're right, Yeah, I just wanted that assurance. I just
wanted that.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's good. It's like it's nice
because it fits. It fits in the cannon like it's yeah.
I but I definitely thought that. I mean, let's face it,
it's also a guy they put like a visor he
can't see through on his eyes. It's also young black
man they put a visor over his eyes, and I
was like, are they gonna give him a Jordy visor?

(31:04):
Like how cool would that be?

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I thought about that too. I was like, it's gotta
be hooked up to a compewter with like throw the record.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
Yeah, like the next next episode he's gonna be walking
around with like a Jordy visor on but he's not
because he's dead. Yeah, he's dead now. Ah man, it's
really it's a really bummer. I liked him a lot
in this episode, and I really, uh it really made
me just excited for star Fleet, Like this is the stuff,

(31:36):
this stuff I've been missing, and I think that just
genuine excitement is something that I didn't even know I
was missing. And it really is like a thing. I mean,
like Korby's excited, like really excited to be there. Like
these uh, I feel like most of the main cast

(31:57):
Spock Chapel, Oh Horror, they all kind of have their
own things going on, Like you know, Uhora gets distracted
because she's flirting and she's not sticking with her job.
But like this insign just gave me this like excitement
for just doing his job that I realized, like thinking
back on Star Trek Data Jordie Riiker, like all these

(32:21):
guys were always excited to do their job, you know
what I mean, Like it was a thing. It was
not like, hey, we better stop talking about relationships and
go hop on our jobs now. And I know this
is like kind of an old criticism, but like seeing
it's not one that I've had cause I think that
like relationships and in the storytelling is incredibly important. So

(32:42):
I'm always reticent to be like I don't need all
this relationship stuff, but like I think, I don't mind
the relationship stuff. I just need them to be excited
to be Starfleet officers.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know, I want to see briefly Riker somewhat jealous
that Troy is talking to another guy at the beginning
or midway through the episode, and then not address it
again for another three seasons.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, you know what, this gave me the same feeling
that his excitement for the exploration of this planet gave
me the same on a lesser degree, because this episode
was amazing. I believe it was the first episode or
second episode of season three of Discovery when they gave
us that really great I think it was like a

(33:28):
prologue to an episode, and we just see like a guy.
We meet a guy who's been waiting for the Federation
to return for like two hundred years, like he's been
he's been manning an outpost, and he's manning an outpost.
It his father man and his father man, and they've
just been like, sorry, I'm getting emotional. It's weird, I know,
it's not weird, it's me but like whatever it just

(33:48):
it comes from comes from places and I never never expected.
But he's he's standing there and it's like whole. He's
like keeping the light on of the Federation in this
corner of the galaxy all by himself. And I loved it.
And then they never put back to that character, I believe,
and I was so disappointed because that gave me such
affiliation and love for that character. And then he never

(34:09):
showed up again, and I was like, that is a waste.
They did such work to make me love him, and
then he did. He I think he may and I
think he mentioned him or he gets a he he
gets a posting or something. Uh, but we know he's
not like an I thought he was. I think he
was a new regular cast member. They spent such a
they when you have when you have made the audience
love a character so much, like that is a character

(34:31):
you use, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, I didn't think. I didn't think they needed him
after that, Like he he kept a light on, he
was the torch bearer. He kept it on, and he
was rewarded and he moved on like he got to
see he got to see the the rekindling.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Well, yeah, but I think that my point is not
that you he had I just think that's a character.
Once you've built him, and you spend like ten minutes
on an episode building that character so perfectly, and it
like resonates so strongly, then like you have an emotionally
emotional core connected to that character. I always I always

(35:08):
talk about with the MCU, and it goes to Star
Trek two, it goes with every all these all these universes.
One of the reasons they're so cool is when Captain
America walks on this walks on the scene and he
and you've been dealing with Iron Man all movie or whatever,
and then Captain America walks in the room. He comes

(35:29):
into the room with all of the affiliation and baggage
and like all of his own complex story that you have,
the feelings you have for him, walk into the room
with him, and it's like he can be an emotional punch,
or he can be a like expositional punch, or he
can be a physical punch like whatever he needs to
be and preferably all three, you know, And and like

(35:53):
he he walks into the room and you're like, oh,
Captain America's here. This means that means all these things,
you know, and like that's what I felt about that character,
Like I felt such strength for him as just like
he's the light bearer for the Federation. Like bring him
in in other key moments or like have him become
part of the crew and have him inspire the crew

(36:13):
because he's like, you know, I just I just I missed.
I missed that, and they've done it again. They brought
another character and they made me like, oh, man, this
is this guy's love for the Federation, the exploration, the interest,
the science. Like he's feeling like Data and Jeordie and Riker,
he's feeling like they cared about their jobs, you know.
And then he's dead, and I'm a little disappointed in that,

(36:34):
and I'm just hope that they someone over at Star
Trek is feeling like I'm feeling and goes, oh, maybe
that's one of the components we're missing, is just like
make these guys care. Not that they don't care about
their jobs. They do, but it's like it's never the
focus on these episodes. It's rarely the focus.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
I like the build up to him dying, I knew
he was gonna die at least in this episode, and
I suspected before. But I'm good with it, Like, oh
I am too much more so than just seeing some
random person we've ever seen before bite the dust because whoops,
we got an instant on an alien world.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I'm a hundredcent with you there. I'm not saying he
should have died. Yeah, I thought that really added an
emotional impact to everything he did this episode.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
But you know, uh, the guy you're talking about from Discovery,
I'm like, no, he's served as purpose. I don't want
to see where it goes. I don't want to, you know, like,
if it was a CW show, he would have hung
around for a fucking season and a half or two
seasons and been the guy who gives the speech in
every fucking episode, reminding people what they're doing and remind
oh need I remind you? I spent my entire life

(37:43):
waiting for this.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
There's obviously a bad way of doing it, and that's
what you're You're straw manning the point of so you're
saying like, oh.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
No, I'm not trying. I'm like, I don't know where
they would have gone, is all I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
I hear you, you do anything you'd do with any character.
You know, you give him Marcus, you give him things
to do. But like I hear what you're saying. Obviously
there's a terrible way to go with it where you're like,
exactly what you're saying would be terrible. But like just
having him be someone and every time he comes on screen,
even if he's not doing that at all, especially if
he's not doing that, if he's just doing his job,

(38:17):
if he's just like doing normal things, but still when
you see him, you're like, that guy loves this shit,
you know, like he's like he's doing shit and he's
excited about it. And every once in a while you
just see that glint in Desiye and you're like, oh,
he's he's loving being around other Federation people and like
feeling this thing he's been longing for. You know.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah, Well, so that guy had discovery. Was he there
just all alone for his entire life after his parents
passed away.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
They never they didn't exactly explain it. I'm assuming maybe
he had like maybe this was where he went for
work every day. Maybe he had quarters, maybe he had
I don't know. It seemed like he was alone in
this thing, and maybe there were other maybe he rotates
it in and out with someone else. We really don't know.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Like I was just like, you know, if you had
an admiralle dvance or someboding like well now that god
you kept the light on and everybody was just we
found you. What what what? What the hell are you
gonna do now?

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Man?

Speaker 1 (39:07):
You've been all alone all these years? And he's like,
I don't know, I was thinking about uh, vagina. Oh gosh,
I'm not even uh you know, Picky, I'm so alone.
Anything will do, Like, I just want a warm bot.
I've never I've never been touched. I can't.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Yeah, I feel like I feel like reducing it to
vagina feels it's it's funny, but it feels a little
uh you know, lots of things you get from human connection. Yeah,
it isn't a vagina.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
That was like, you know, the twelve year old and
I'm coming out now like, yeah, I heard I heard
rumors of these things.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, it sounds like a pirate. He's a lighthouse keeper, man,
you know. Yeah, the unseemly sort, those lighthouse papers.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
The space sirens they sing to me, myths of the
Great Vagina Lord.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
All right, speaking of.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know, you'll know I'm a weird though.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Speaking of Spock had a line that I thought was
really funny. He's asked about Lawn and he says she
is an excellent dance instructor. Uh huh yeah, good euphemism there.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
Spout Girl's kind of annoyed with U Chapel at the
beginning when she was talking to Lawn and Lawn is like,
I mean, we're keeping a casual we're just having fun,
and she's like, and you're okay with that?

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Like, yeah, I was too.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Stop you trying to drag your drama into their relationship,
and Lawn was like, uh we grown, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
That was I agree. As like you're in future. I
don't know, it's just it's the distant future, your space travelers.
Like it just seems like you'd be used to the
idea of that casual relationships can exist, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
And maybe I need to go back and rewatch. But
like it's kind of feeling like Chapel is acting like
Spock didn't want to be with her, like seriously, when
it seems to me like Spock is has been nothing
but all about Chapel.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh no, I didn't get that at all. I got
that she was just asking her as if, like cause
I think that Chapel wouldn't have been okay with that,
like that sort of like yeah that that sort of thing,
that sort of casual thing, and she's assuming on with neither,
which is just sort of like, honestly, it's kind of
a sexist trope that like, well, oh obviously the man wants, yeah,

(41:36):
the casual sex, but are you okay with that? It's like, right, yeah,
It's just sort of just sort of a sexist trope
in my opinion, And so there's a way she could
have asked it that the tone would have been better
where she's like, oh, okay, well and you're cool with
that all right?

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Then yeah, there was a weird tone thing. And then
it was like coupled with that bit at the end
where Spock was like you know you clearly you can't
trust me on certain issues or whatever. I was like,
well that was weird, Like what like what even happened
between them like in last season but that they were
like was it just that she was going away? And

(42:13):
I can't remember exactly what it was, to be honest,
ruin their relationship.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I don't know either, And I don't think it's so
much ruined it. I think that she just decided she
wasn't sure she wanted to be in it, and she
told him like, we need time away from each other,
and and and basically broke it off and said like
maybe well and he said and she said, don't wait
on me, like and I'm not waiting on you. And
then she went off and met Roger Corby. I think

(42:38):
the thing is that I think she just has a
lot of unresolved feelings for stocks still, and he has
the resolved feelings for her.

Speaker 1 (42:45):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I might be uh if
I were her, I might be a little you know,
thrown off by freaking Roger Corby as portrayed by Colin Ferrell,
my damnself, because Jesus, yeah, I'm not. I'm not.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
I wouldn't even I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't say
I'm by or gay or anything, but even I'm like.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
A handsome boot handsome dude he is.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Indeed, I mean now, Roger Corby in the original series
he was like a fucking nerd like he he seemed
like like a creep or something. He seems like the
kind of dude who would go down to a planet
and fuck a bunch of androids, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
But like here, he's just.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Oh, I found this fucking the ring. I found this
ring on this other planet. And I'm like, that ring
is going into something. The lock a thing in this episode.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
I thought you meant it's going into something like sexually.
Is the way that because you were talking.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
About he might have, but no, I just wanted to
loop in and be like as soon as he pulled
that thing out, I was like, Oh, that's got to
go into some kind of slot and unlock a door
or something. Yeah, that's absolutely And then they're like showing
the tablet the whole time, and I'm like, the fucking
ring goes right there. I'm looking at the fucking thing
where the ring goes. Please put the ring and the thing.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
I liked it. I liked it all.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
See uh, and they're called He's when they talk about
the blood sacrifice, they said sacrifice to stand before the
deities of time, which yeah, again talking about like time
and and all this stuff, and like the way this
thing exists in that in all these different dimensions. That's
creating for them with like different cause and effect problems.

(44:33):
It really just reminds me so much of the wormhole aliens.
And like I always I always assumed the paw Raith
were a I always assume they were the same race
or the same species as.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
The worm all aliens. I may be wrong, as the prophets.
Yeah yeah they were, Okay, I mean I assumed they
might not be. They might just be from the same
plane of existence. But it should be noted that in
the books which these strange New Worlds producers are doing
really into like making cannon, Uh, the Q did have
to fight the paw raith at some point. They were
in the paw Raiate were a nuisance to the queue

(45:07):
at a certain time.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Okay, well that's that. That explains a lot. If that's
the case, then they're bringing that into this hit this cannon,
Like that's real cool man, And this like I immediately
thought of paw raith when when he looked down there
looks so much like that swirling cave. Uh, that's so
much fun.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
God, I'm like, dude, the fucking ancient Q were running
around with poke balls, gotta catch them all.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, yeah, they were. They were apparently, And does that
mean that we also had this alien that's like stuck
in suspended animation of sorts, like out of phase, and
it looked completely different it didn't. I mean, I guess
Q might look like anything. If if what what the
what were the blue aliens called in this episode? Oh uh,

(45:52):
it sounded like a cookie made a cookie.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Macrons or macro Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
The macroon. It's a real like Seinfeld situation. It sounded
like a cookie. It sounded like a woman's body part,
the malvas, you know, the macruons like they they they're
these like blue aliens, and I assumed that like that thing,

(46:17):
it was kind of similar. It was blue. I just
assumed that was one of their ancestors. But now that
we're like connecting it to all this Q stuff, now
I'm wondering if, like, yeah, if if these guys, if
the Macroons are somehow related to the Q in that
way or whatever.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
I don't know. I think I thought they were like
a more recent species who were like we had heard
about these things, and like our ancestors talked about this,
like you know, the time deities and shit like. I
assumed that they were like a subset or like a
species or subspecies who evolved much later later enough that

(46:54):
like the Q would have been like a you know,
time deities and would seem like gods to the right
right uh in their ancient times. But that motherfucker saw
that statue or what or that statue instead of whatever,
that blue thing uh huh that was both living in
not alive, and went oh shit and had to get

(47:14):
out of there.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he said evil, he said, yeah, she said.
I loved that, Ahra being like he says danger, no,
not danger evil. Like I thought, this episode was so
well written and so I don't know, lots of cool lines,
lots of that still felt earned and within the world,
you know. Uh, it's just it was just great. I

(47:37):
really love this episode. The other thing I was gonna
mention is I talked about the excitement of the young
ensign to do this and how much that meant to
me and getting me into this episode, but also the
reticence of Umbinga to send him into the field and
the responsibility in Binga felt. I know that's themes that

(47:57):
the show has dealt with some before, but it just
doesn't I feel like that's an ever present thing on
Star trek that I didn't. I didn't. I haven't felt
lately even if you always feel the weight of a
decision when the captain's like I'm putting the ship at risk,
it's it's it's it's so much more generalized, but the
idea of being like, Okay, it's my job to decide

(48:18):
if this guy who's been here six months is ready
for this mission or not, and like I have my
personal feelings towards him, I have like my my uh,
my assessment is getting clouded by my personal feelings, like
and and did I make a mistake or or is
this just kind of like as a pike comes around
and says, like, you know, it happens. We can't save

(48:40):
them all.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
You know, I'm big as like I feel like I
should have told him not to pick up a thing.
If you if you don't know what the fuck it is,
don't pick it up.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Yeah. Well they even said like, don't don't touch anything,
and uh, Corby was like that's kind of my whole thing.
It's like going and digging and touching things. Yeah, and
she's like, you know what I mean, And like, clearly
insign Gamble did not know what she meant.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Dude. That bugged me though, like and maybe, like maybe
that's the point, but like, I don't like how Spot
back down because he was clearly in charge no matter
how much Korby and Chapel wanted him.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
Not to be. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
And like, I guess you can use bad human decisions
from Spock here as like a fun headcan in to
why Nimoys Spock is at the beginning of original series
so fucking vulcan and so detached. In the original like,
he was just like, I don't care about your emotions.
We are doing this. I am in charge, you know.
Uh Like, And we hinted at him going way more

(49:43):
that way in the Strange New World's Balance of Terror
episode where he was just like, damn, he ain't like
this spot at all. He's at in like Nemoys spot
right right, Uh so, I mean I would. I mean this,
That's part of the fun of a prequel is if
we see, if we get to see like a ton
of stuff that like makes you feel like they're not

(50:04):
doing the character right, and then we see what made
the character go that way. Yeah, if it's done well,
it's so good.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I agree. I agree. I love that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
But I was also I was like, oh, come on, Corby, dude,
like they're dead bodies.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Man. Yeah, this is all bad news. Every part of
this bad news. Yeah, man, I I just liked it.
I liked it a lot, liked all of it.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
I did too. I had a lot of fun with it.
Question for you, do you think that this means the
Q are the progenitors?

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Why would it?

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Well because of all the different languages on that panel,
because they had what looked like a more primitive version
of the place. Michael Burnham, Uh, that's a fair point.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
It did. It was similar to that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Uh, we're talking about different worlds, like he different galley,
between different galaxies. Yeah, they were finding stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
That was interesting that they traveled between galaxies, not just
between uh you know we we've seen on Discovery they
first the first time they like went outside and met
aliens outside the galaxy. Mm hmm. So that's that is interesting.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
They don't have to be the paw raith. These could
be like an offshoot of the pow raith or the
power raith could be an offshoot of this species. Found
they've got some Chinese, they could they could have some
Bajoran in there as well, from you know, yeah, and
they could be like a separate god species that have
that real I mean, you know the Organians reached that

(51:42):
level as well.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
Right right, right, Yeah, So I don't I don't think
it necessarily means that, but it it could. It like
makes it possible, I guess, which I guess it always
could have been possible. But it just also means that
the Q traveled the galaxy and visited Earth and visited
other place in ancient times, which is really fun and interesting.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like there was there's I mean,
there's definitely something going on with the Chinese language, and
it's also one of those things. First of all, we're
not done with this story. We saw the computers acting up,
so entity.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
That's right, I forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, the evil entities in the transporter buffer, like and
it's messing with the enterprises computers. By the way, I
love that was Scotty solutions, throw them in a transporter buffer,
given that's where Scotty ends up for like eighty years.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Yeah, that's also his solution. I thought that was it
was very Scotty. The whole thing was very Scotty like
him jumping in. I really liked him catching it very that, yeah,
doing his Pokemon thing and then just throwing it up
and trans and transportering it. It was very Scotty decision. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
I would have been shocked if you had told me,
By the way, in twenty twenty five, you're gonna watch
Scott body uh capture what might be a paw raith
into a pokey ball and throw it into what might
be a ghostbuster trap.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Man, it's gonna be terrible when the city finds out
and the inspector comes in and shuts down there, shuts
down their whole pattern buffer.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
That's right, epay, Inspector Walter Peck aka Dickless.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Well, sorry ahead, I.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
Was just gonna say, we have some feedback if you'd
like to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's hear it. Okay, what were you
about a side? I was to guess if we had
any feedback.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
Okay, well, I just want to make sure.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Man. I just want to wrapping because it seemed like
we were getting to the end and we are.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Yeah, it does feel that way now, Andre sparks. Andre
says to us, Hey, guys, so first question was that
supposed to be the Borg mind blowing emoji. No, I
don't think it was Andre, No, it is what we
just said. We thought about it.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
I think you because of the planet connection, possibly paw Wraith,
because of the similar word and similar shape of the
swirling golden things, uh, golden red things that. Yeah, and
it's some sort of species that over in this local
gallic in this local area of the of the alpha

(54:22):
and beta quadrants. I don't know which quadrant they're in
right now, but somewhere around Earth the Gore exists. And
also this race existed sometime in ancient times. We know
that the Borg were born in like the Delta quadrant.
So this is this is which unlikely to be the Borg.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Look today, like I had a weird because I didn't
watch this episode until today, and I woke up and
like popped over into some social media was looking around
and all these people are going, oh my god, the Borg,
and I was like, fuck what. I was geared to
hate the shit out of this episode because I was like,
I don't want it to fucking bore it. So a
lot of people thought the Borg Andre a whole lot

(54:59):
of interesting.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
That's interesting, and not to insult Andre at all, but
I don't understand why the Borg I mean, like, yeah,
I don't know, like they don't ascend, they like merge
with technology. That's a different like thingah, right, Like these
these guys somehow figured out how to ascend into you know, uh,
some sort of ethereal plane of existence, which is just

(55:21):
a different thing altogether than yeah, uh than the Borg
who merge with technology and sort of stay grounded into uh,
into the corporeal world or the corporal world.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
No. But Andre does say, to his credit, he says,
I don't know how would they have been able to
read people's minds? Absolutely, man?

Speaker 2 (55:42):
And I don't know.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
I like you said, Matt, I don't know how people
were getting the Borg out of it.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Maybe because it looked like there were some like square
columns in the background that kept shifting a movie. I
don't know, adapting maybe, or maybe thinking that like the
portals of the dimension were in some way ah, you know,
like the slip stream technology, slipstream sargates whatever.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Like I can understand it's a big creepy cube like structure.
It's not cube like exactly, but I kind of I
get the feeling. There's a lot of geometry happening in
the background. Like I could see why they would think that.
But yeah, I could see why they would feel the
vibe of a board cube in that place, I guess

(56:31):
is the only connection I can draw. But other than that, no,
this is there's no bords wrong wrong quadrant? Uh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Did you get the feeling? Well, I mean the borg
have been kind of around. I mean they were one
of the first real big iterations of uh universe altering
time travel because of first contact we found they found
a board cuban enterprise, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Et cetera.

Speaker 1 (56:55):
Sure so, uh but yeah, what did you Did you
think they were in a laboratory or a prison for
the vex PA vexed APA or whatever, or did you
think that it was like a laboratory turned prison, like
they abandoned the shit, Like, what do you think we were?
Where were they?

Speaker 2 (57:11):
That's a good question. I think prison is what we're
supposed to land on. Okay, I don't know why they
ever thought laboratory. I guess because they were talking about
this being a place of a scent, of being able
to transfer consciousness or like that this is what they
were looking for, that technology and I mean, you know,
maybe both maybe this place contained both of those things.

(57:32):
But like, to me, that was the thing that sort
of the episode settles on, is like, we're in this place,
what is it for? What is it for? Oh, it's
a prison, and we've let one of the prisoners out.
Like I think that was that was the implication I
think of the episode.

Speaker 1 (57:45):
But I got the feeling that it was a laboratory
and then they accidentally let those pieces of shit into
our dimension, It's possible, and then had to abandon it, yeah,
or had to trap them all, like yeah, yeah, whatever.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
But also I don't I don't think. I don't. I
don't buy that because at least at least they didn't.
They didn't stay here because the Gorn exists, and the
Gorn had to face them. So I think whatever these are,
they were out in the galaxy causing damage. So maybe
they let them through and then they the Q may

(58:21):
have created the Gorn to fight them, right, and then
they had to. So they you're saying, this is the laboratory,
they let something in it escaped into our reality, went
all over the all over the you know, known galaxy.
They went out, caught them all in poke balls then
stood them back at the at this prison.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Possibly that would be my guess as to what happened,
because I just don't.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
I don't know why laboratory makes any sense, Like why
would you call it a laboratory, like they were calling
it a laboratory earlier episode, and I even then, I
was like, why are you calling this laboratory? Like I
know you think it has some connection to the technology
to transfer consciousnesses that they talked about the beginning of episode,
but like other than that.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
That's why I asked the question the first place, because
I'm kind of like, what what did we have there
that solidified it as a laboratory?

Speaker 2 (59:09):
I mean, I don't, I don't think anything. I think
they were they were saying that because they were going
to find this technology, so that they were like, this
must be the place where this technology exists, so their
brains are going to laboratory. But like think about like
you go to an airport because planes are there, that's
not where they build the planes, you know what I mean,
It's not it's not like you go. It did make

(59:32):
insist to me at any point, Like I never got
the lab theory, like when they were talking about it
and so when they said prison, I was like, oh,
that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Like I said, the only way that works for me
is if it was a laboratory where they were messing
around with interdimensional travel and accidentally let this shit into
our reality. And they said once they figured out how
to contain it. Sure.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
I think that's a fun turtle a prism. That's a
fun headcanon. It's just a nothing in the episode to
support it necessarily that there's not like gateways to other
dimensions here. There's just like this weird sort of tesseract
of a of a system of like I think the
whole place is built to be a puzzle prison, and
so it's built so that these par races can't escape.

(01:00:17):
So like, even if they do escape, they're not aligned
with the you know, with whatever they need to be
aligned with to get out of the room. They're they're
quantumly what they call them, quantumly fluxed out of out
of existence and shit like that. So I think that's
the whole point of this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
It's a power raise could just learned ala morange.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
That's right, that's all you gotta do. That That would
have been so good if if they had to do
Ala Morang to get out to No, I would have
been mad. I would have loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
So this episode possibly makes the universe so small already. Yeah,
you know, and I'm here for I'm a fan service made.
But at the same time, like, motherfucker, do not bring
almeraine and we'd be sitting here like what does that mean?
A Q is now connected to the alam Morange puzzle?
Like what is that the Q or the source of

(01:01:09):
all humor in the universe. It's just all like just
prankster shit. They Yeah, they ascended to a non corporeal
status just so they could fuck with with corporeal beings
and play branks on them. You got anyway, Andre countinues,
I should have known the new incident would bite the dust. Lastly,

(01:01:32):
the star Fleet ever go back to that planet or
do you think the pattern buffer will be infected? Well,
I mean we saw the computers were infected. The Enterprise
is infected.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
To the end of the episode, Yeah, computers were glitchen,
So something's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
And they did say that they sanctioned off that planet
like they are like it's under active you know, investigation
and shit, and they're like locking it down.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
And now so talking about joining the federation. So now
I'm assuming they'll do some more exploration, but like, it
does seem dangerous to be in that particular place. Maybe
I'd explore other parts of the planet. Maybe not, maybe
not the Paw prison.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Yeah, it was like, no wonder they had it cloaked.
It wasn't just cloaked. It was like in a different dimension,
I think.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Yeah, yeah, they had to use the like ship's deflectors
to open up whatever that was. I wasn't even sure
what was going on there. I was like, what is
happening here? Did they just destroy those rocks with the
ship's deflectors or or did they like bring down a
hologram like they didn't really explain.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
No, I think they were opening another or like phasing
another dimension or something. Right, I'm not smart. I don't know.
But Andre says, thanks for spreading the track knowledge and
you were very welcome. Andre, And thank you for writing
in and for always supporting both this cast and DC
on screen. Yeah, and all the stranded Panda stuff that
you do.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Yeah, but thank Andre, And I'm glad he brought up
the Boord thing because I hadn't heard that, and that
is really interesting and I just know this is what
I'm a sucker for, like an episode that works completely
self contained. I don't need a paw Wraith or Que
or anything. I didn't even know the Que connection until
we talked. But I just loved this episode. And then

(01:03:19):
oh and by the way, you can kind of draw
these connections and we can talk about it, and you know,
some people can think it's the Borg, and some people
can think it's the Queue, and some people can think
it's the paw Wraith, and you just bounce around and
argue about it. But if you don't know any of that,
it's just a cool archaeology evil spirit episode.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
Yeah, so you sign on to Twitter or something. I
don't go onto Twitter anymore, but signed on a threads
and you see somebody going, holy shit, I can't believe
adolescent Vrenak was over in that cuckchair masturbating. Where was
that in the episode? All right, he wasn't It was
a fake.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
I really think you're onto something with the Gorn being
created to to fight these creatures, because the season began
with the Gorn War and how it's going and all
this stuff, and now I'm wondering if, like they're gonna
need the Gorn, you know what I mean, like by
the end of the season, and that would be a

(01:04:19):
really interesting arc to be like, all right, Gorn, we
we know, we know why you exist, and now we
need to ally with you to take this thing down.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Yeah, man, And it's gotta be they made too much
of a big deal about the Gorn being activated after
certain lighting or solar patterns or whatever, like all of
that will I think all of that will probably like
come in to play in the season somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Yeah, yeah, right, like they're gonna they're gonna do the
same thing they did here, but to wake them up
when the part like yeah, Serenity, the movie Serenity. Not
to spoil it, but that's like the big thing is
like you got the bad guys, then you got the
really weird, uh like almost monstrous bad guys, and what
do what do you do is you throw the monsters

(01:05:10):
at the bad guys, you know what I mean. So
I can totally see this, like Paw Creature whatever they
are Vesta pa as we said something like that, them
they're they're they're coming for the Federation and the and
and they fly in and cause that binary star to
do whatever they need it to do, and then you

(01:05:30):
see the gorn like closing in on the whatever the
paw creature is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Yeah, the way you say it, it sounds like something
you say when you eat a really good noodle, like
a Vesta pa. Indeed, just like a mama used to make.
We got Stu Little over here titled you'll need more

(01:05:58):
than lens for that eye problem? Oh man, I think
I don't think it's gonna get better than that. We
could just skip the rest of the email now, Uh
Little says hello, Uh junior medical officer's log. Yeah, but
what's his name?

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
Say it?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Fucking say it, Stu. Also, what's the deal with medical
staff titles? There's doctors, nurses and insigns. Seems confusing? It does,
but you know, the ranking system on Star Trek has
always been inconsistent and confusing as fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Well, I think you can be in the military. Now.
You can be a doctor nurse like that's your job,
but your rank is your rank, like your job versus
your rank. You can be a doctor, you can have
the training to be a doctor, but you can be
like a captain or a commander or whatever. You're still
a doctor, right, you can be Yeah, just two different things.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
Yeah, instant gamble. Finally Jesus shitty documentarian letting the cameramen
appear in the shot. All right, why would that entrance
work with human blood? Kind of disrespectful to the local
alien not to ask if they want to do it.
It's just got to be some blood. It doesn't have
to be theirs.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Also, I don't I don't know that that's more respectful
to be like, will you sacrifice yourself? They didn't really
know what it was gonna do, Like, it was kind
of a rough thing for Chapel to walk up there
and be like, yeah, take my blood. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
She stuck her finger up there, but like.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Corby was about to like cut his hand, which like
and then she was like, don't do anything, rash, I'm
gonna stick my hand in the alien device.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Yeah, she was just like trying to get Gorby not
to slash his fucking palm open.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
He's all about that shit. That's some Indiana Jones all
the all day. Like Corby's like, yeah, let me, let me,
let me cut my hand and like bleed on my archaeology.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
Yeah, this episode just reminds me of my recent realization
that Christina Chong would have made a good Laura Croft. Yeah,
if you wanted her career to fail. Sure Tune Raider
movies don't do that well. They keep trying to reboot it.

(01:08:23):
But yes, you would have done all right for real?

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Yeah no, I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I gotta believe somewhere out there there's the perfect combination
of creatives to make a Laura Croft movie work anyway.
Spock's right, says Stu. There's nothing time critical about all
of this. They should so they should be more careful.
Someone better die from this. Yeah, man, there ain't There

(01:08:49):
ain't a damn reason they couldn't. Like Corby's like, oh no, no, no,
we can't do that. Oh yeah, I'm in charge here, Okay, Corby,
calm the fuck down. We can walk outside and like
call somebody and report like it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yeah I did.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
I really enjoyed that they had the conversation. I think
something that made this is like one of the While
I was watching it, I had that same sort of
complaint about those moments, and it just felt like, I
think it would have worked better if they'd like expressed
to us that they were deeper in the cave. Because
they didn't do that. It just sort of felt like

(01:09:30):
they were It felt like they just arrived, Like I
felt like they were in the first chamber and then
they were like can we go out? Said, should we
go all the way back outside? I don't know, It's
like why not, Like it's right there, it's the door.
Like it just felt like it didn't feel like a
huge cost to be like, especially since he's like this
is dangerous when you go back and report in, It's like, okay, yeah,

(01:09:53):
there's the door right there, go report in, like let
them know we're let them know we're in trouble, and
and give it get advice from the captain of what
he wants us to do. Like it felt a little weird.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Yeah, but I also felt like it was a situation
where they were like they wrote themselves into the into
a hole a little bit, because if they didn't do
it that way and they someone tried to go out
and report, they were gonna be vaporized. Yeah. No, of course,
make the rest of the story work.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
It ends up being the right decision because but they
don't have any clue of that at that point. You know.
I liked that they had the conversation in general, though,
because it went along with that thing on somebody earlier
about being a having the responsibility, feeling that weight of
the responsibility for Gamble, and like in that moment, Spock

(01:10:40):
has to make this call, and you can tell he's
compromised by his own emotions for Chapel and forevery for
against Corby, like all that stuff's going on his head,
and then he's having to make this decision. And I
think it worked for me that they even had the conversation,
because so often I feel like they don't really have
those conversations on New Trek. And uh, that's kind of
to me what Trick's all about in a way.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
Yeah, yeah, uh, Stu says, Okay, I'll take Gamble losing
both of his eyes. No, I didn't Why I didn't
wish him harm like that? Why is it always the
black guys who get blinded in this franchise, Well, Spock
was blinded in the original series. Let's not forget.

Speaker 2 (01:11:23):
Uh, but you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
It's okay. The conspiracy theorists in the Star Trek universe
will also claim that Gamble and Geordie for that matter,
are both faking the blindness. Have you heard about that with.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
Oh, Stevie Wonder.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
Yeah, Stevie Wonder.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Yeah, you had to like get up a bunch of
people say I am blind, people like claim he's not blind. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:49):
Yeah, Like we caught of at the airport and he
was looking at a phone. I'm well, put that creepy conspiracy?
Is it over?

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
It's a it's a great like it is such a
good conspiracy theory because it's like I guess, like uh
theory because he's so good and it's it's easy to
be like, well, yeah, that's why, like because he can see.
But like, yeah, being blind and doing good music though
is like a is a like the Blind Boys of

(01:12:23):
Alabama and stuff like that like that, there's like a
there's a history to being a blind person with with
great musical ability, and it's it's sort of an enhanced
senses thing. You know, where you don't you don't see,
so what you hear is much more intense and you
can like I don't know, at least that's the way
I've always imagined it. Yeah, being the case of why
that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
Also, I have no idea how how blind see. If
he Wonder is like he might, I mean, you know,
you can be able to see a pretty good amount
and still be considered legally blind. So I don't know
if because he just seeing like blobs of colors, possibly,
like I don't know, I've never had I've never seen
that definition, but no idea. I'm like, God, that's a

(01:13:06):
that's a really big Uh, that's a big lot to
keep up for all these years.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
It really is.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Hey, whatever, we're on a flat earth. What else is
gotta say?

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
Here? Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
And someone did die? And what a surprise? Is the
most make up intensive character? Every time it is?

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
It is?

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
I just noticed why does Laan refer to herself by
her first name on comms?

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
That is weird hmmm, because Noonian Sing is heard to say, yeah,
I guess it's a lot, you know, yeah, yeah, it's
a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Like I find that every time I mentioned my last name,
everyone sort of shudders.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Yes, Actually, that's a that's a good point, Like, that's
actually a totally valid reason why she would do that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
This is this is Lieutenant Lawn Hitler.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
Oh yeah, exactly, Now that makes that makes sense. Actually,
I kind of like that as a character choice for
for that character.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Yeah, uh, says While I think Gordon instinct mode is
a bit much for Batel. I was thinking that Melanie
Scrafano was being a little wasted this season, appearing only
for checkups and relationship talks with Pi. Nah, I like
the Gordon instinct mode. Man, I'm sorry, Stu.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
I liked it a lot. I do too, and like
it is pretty amazing that she's been this season only
being checked up on and like he's talking about, like
she's there just for relationship talks and checkups and doctor checkups,
and now she's like having an ancient battle with a
non corporeal species. Like all of a sudden, I'm like, WHOA,

(01:14:46):
what a big advancement for her character this season?

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
Yeah, first of all, like this season is the most
interesting she's ever been, uh huh, because she's been very
vulnerable but also strong and making her own decisions and
saying fuck you, Chris, I even be a part of
the fucking decision making because you can't handle shit because
you're a little bitch.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
And then.

Speaker 1 (01:15:07):
Not in so many words, but yeah, not in so
many words, you know what she actually did kind of though,
she because she was like, I don't have space to
talk about how me dying is gonna hurt your feelings?
You fuck like, yeah, oh, that was fantastic. That's like
my favorite moment of the season. It is.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
It is a great conversation, and so I don't think
we talked about it on that episode when we talked,
I think we did, did we, because I don't like, Yeah,
So that was a really intense and good conversation in
an otherwise episode I didn't really enjoy. But I really
liked that kind of conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
But much like you know, slowly bringing up in some
gamble into killing them off being a shock or supposedly
trying to be a shock, I liked the start contrast
of Mattel being sick and dying and sick and dying

(01:15:59):
and sick and dying stick and then all of a sudden,
she's a fucking pole Raith slayer.

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
Yeah, yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
That was fucking dope, dude. That was so he says,
I know that the place was cloaked in all, but
shouldn't a prison's front door also need a better lock
than someone from any species apparently giving a drop of
their blood?

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
And maybe, Yeah, I think the idea was, if you're
going in there, you are someone from the outside, Like
it's it's a prison, it's supposed to be made so
that no one can go in. Someone from the outside
can get in, and then they're the only ones that
can leave. Is I think the idea you have to
be with the person who entered, which you know, I

(01:16:42):
don't know, it doesn't really it's it's not a great
prison because anyone can go in, but like and help
them out, help them get out, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
That's part of what I wanted to know about it though, too,
is like, because Corby found that one piece that they
had to have, you have to be smart enough to
get out or you'll just die in there, right, How
the fuck those dudes get in there in the first place?
That debt the corpses. How did they figure out a
way in? I want to know what was beyond that
little platform and you know where they couldn't get out

(01:17:11):
from because you just keep seeing all these other like
rooms and ship in the background moving around like fucking
Geiger uh drew that ship?

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Yeah, it could it could be other instances of that
same room. Like we know we know that they like
create multiple dimensions for that room to exist in and
that's one of the ways they're able to separate them
so they can't get out, like what if all that
that entire prison is only that room and it's just
everything you see is just a kaleidoscoped version of that room.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
Yeah, that's cool. The whole thing is cool. Like I
like stuff that I can't like completely conceptualize. Yeah, and
I me too.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
And and they cause they do. They go across, they
go in, and then they are in that room, and
then they leave that room to go through that one
door and they all end up in different versions of
that same room. And then yeah, it's just that that's it,
and this is again that's the thing that made that
beginning that work for me because they were right next
to the door as far as we know. But whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:18:12):
But yeah, but that's you know, I like stuff like
this in Star Trek where it's just like science so
advanced that even they feel like it's magic. I love that,
and I love it like that they just barely got out.
They've just barely figured it out, it out enough to
get out, as opposed to being like, well we create,

(01:18:34):
we wrote a song and spoke to them and they moved,
you know, like Discovery pissed me off that kind of
stuff all the time, where it was like this is
so advanced. No one has ever seen anything like this.
But wait, I think this is a note.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
Oh come on, Oh yeah that last season. Uh well
and it but at least that was made by like
other people, other corporeal beings. Yeah, that like twenty years
ago or like whatever three thousand, two thousand years ago
or whatever it was.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
Man, I just spilled fresco all down my pant Oh
see see, I just I can't imagine people would be
able to figure out some like vast ancient language. I
can't even drink something.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
Right, Man. They never did connect that to Spock, did they?
I don't know connect what that that? That conspiracy to
hide the hide the progenitors or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Dude, I don't even remember what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
We we had we had speculated because the conspiracy for
that to happen happened during like the TNG era, I believe,
because they talk about some characters that did the conspiracy
to to put the and there was sometime in like
that era of of Star Trek and so, and they're
solving the puzzles to get to the Progenitor's place the

(01:19:54):
technology and.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
The ATG episode. Are you talking about the TG episode?

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
I'm talking about the Discovery episode. Okay, so the Discovery season,
they're solving these puzzles and one of the things me
and you came up with that I don't they didn't do,
and I really like it is the idea that they
get to the end. And one of the reasons Michael
Burnham made it here, like part of her fate was
that she needs to solve one of the last puzzles.

(01:20:20):
And it was made by her brother, you know what
I mean, like like but that he was never connected
to the conspiracy. But me and you thought of that
in our conversations and I was like, oh, that would
be such a good because it would bring the whole
series to a close with her having done all this
and being connected to Spock and giving her a reason
to be connected to Spock. And then it could give

(01:20:40):
her like like she could end with like a puzzle
and she's like, oh, I used to solve these with
Spock and then recognize the handwriting, you know, something like
it could been rather, it could have been so nice,
but that was not a thing. That was just something
we talked about in the podcast, and it was so good.
I'm remembering it as if it was still.

Speaker 1 (01:20:56):
Part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
Ah, that's great.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Yeah, you know that's what that's part of the problem
with like head cannon and fan culture because we do
that shit.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
And even books you know that did end up being
not cannon in the end. Like sometimes it's so good,
like the the whatever canon is written, is they so
good and you love it, and then you know it
doesn't doesn't it doesn't actually end up being part of it.
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Stu said it's a leap of faith. Indiana Jones hates those.
He says, Okay, so did we just watch a prequel
to TG's Conspiracy storyline? God, I did think about those
little creatures from Conspiracy.

Speaker 2 (01:21:37):
They do remind me a lot of the Gorn actually,
now that you think about it too. So if you're
connecting these difference, ooh ooh ooh, what if what if
like they ascend, right, they have some technology that ascends
them out of their bodies and they become a higher
being or whatever, and like the Gorn is what's left

(01:21:57):
in their bodies? Hmmm, like that those are their corporeal bodies,
like whatever like is left of their instinct and they're like,
uh and and that's what they evolved from. But like
now they're these brainless, mindless creatures that are running around
the galaxy like just consuming.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
They could be yeah, they could be a byproduct of
you remember you remember in Skin of Evil, how armis
that the black Tar creature was created? If I remember correctly,
he was created because the people who lived there shed
all of their negative shit, right, and they like figured

(01:22:41):
out a way to like hone it into one person
and or one creature and created this like sentient evil.
If yeah, if like the Gorn figure out in the
future at some point figure out a way to do
that and it becomes that, right or those oh oh interesting, man,
that's so much fun, and and those become the Pow race. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Well, it also made me think thinking of that idea
of them like getting out of their corporeal bodies, like
leaving behind their corporeal their carnal hungers. You know, it
made me think about the Vulcans, right Like. Part of
the reasons the Vulcans had to develop the Colonar and
all that is because their emotions and their passions ran

(01:23:23):
so deep, right like, and were so harsh and hard
they had to get control of them. What if, like
the Gorn were like this. They had all these hunger,
they had the desire to go to go to hibernate
and then just wake up and just destroy the galaxy
every hundred years or whatever, and then they had to

(01:23:46):
ascend above that. But then they left behind their hunger
in their bodies.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
Yeah, don't know that this is all silly, but I'm
just enjoying. Yeah, Like it's like they let their souls left,
and all that was left was these gorn Husks.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
If they or if they're they're like the Kelpians. If
they don't, they've been taught you gotta hibernate, you gotta hibernate.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Man. Oh right then yeah, when.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
They don't hibernate, they fucking assent.

Speaker 2 (01:24:12):
Yeah. And then and then but yeah, we're we're just
we're just bouncing out ideas. I really I really enjoyed
this episode because it's so fun to do that with
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:21):
Yeah, it's like, well, I mean all the ship in
the background was moving around like a doctor strange. So maybe, yeah,
that's like when they go into their when the Gordons
go into their non corporeal I have Agamato floating around
for you know whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:24:34):
Well, I just if we're gonna, if we're gonna connect
it to every episode and every thing out, let me
also just say calling out the other doctor that we
so love and just say that thing was bigger on
the inside. You know what I'm saying? Like this absolutely
absolutely some time, Lord, technology happened in here.

Speaker 1 (01:24:53):
Astral projection form. That's what I was looking for. That's
what they are, the Gordons astral projections.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Oh man, Sorry, that's a that's a
stupid theory. I don't think it's not supported at all.
But I enjoy it a lot. I just enjoyed doing
all these things, man. But this is this is truly
like when we were young and talking about exactly stupid
Star Trek. That's what I was gonna say. This feels
like those conversations you have when you're young watching Star

(01:25:21):
Trek and these like things come up and you draw
all these different connections and it could be, it couldn't be,
and it all, it all exists in this quantum state
to reference the episode of like this could exist, this
could not exist, and until they do something else with
the can, we don't know, and it may be something
we're not thinking of at all.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
You know. I'm fired up, man, I'm seeing the house myself.
Meet me at Snowden. Let's go hang out on.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
The hill somewhere. That's where we grew up with the
church and would would sneak out of church and go
talk with Star Trek for hours.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
Yeah all right, So back to what Stew said to
remind you. He says, did we just watch a prequel
team's conspiracy storyline? Part of me is like, nah, I think,
or nah, I should say, because I think what he
really means is pa Because the VESDA life form and
the Conspiracy Aliens have some differences, like the Conspiracy Aliens

(01:26:14):
didn't exhibit a form of omniscience, but that doesn't mean
they didn't have it necessarily or that it can't be
explained as a result of their imprisonment. Imprisonment in non
corporeal form. Also, being trapped in a transport buffer seems
like a viable way to jump to another host at
some point. There's also pretty similar. They're also pretty similar

(01:26:35):
in being sinister assholes when controlling hosts, and the look
we got the VESNA ones could be viewed as a
variation of the Queen from the climax of that TNG story.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
I mean, I mean it looks like I think creature.
I think I see what is going on here. I
have a very different interpretation, I think than what Stu
has here, And you may have the same interpretation. When
you saw the creature inside the thing, did you think
that was the vesna?

Speaker 1 (01:27:09):
When I saw the creature inside of the thing, I
thought it was whatever non corporeal creature the vesna pa
I thought it was they used those little lanterns to
trap this non corporeal parasitic because they did say parasite being.
But I do think it is a non corporeal being.

Speaker 2 (01:27:31):
But but but when Spock looks into it, there's like
a there's a little little alien pops up. What did
you think that's like.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
A mouse and something? But it looks it's kind of
like what Spock saw when he was mind melding with That's.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
What I think. So I think means have different means
to have different opinions. This. I think this whole thing
that Stu is, this whole theory spin stew is spinning
about the conspiracy. I think he's basing it on the
fact that that's what they look like, and that's not
how I read that scene. I read that as that
was stuck experiencing the Gorn, which was still living in

(01:28:09):
his head, freaking out about seeing the Vesna Pa.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
Yeah, I I considered it possibly was. Initially I considered
that it might be a flashback, like a bit of
trauma from that mind meld experience.

Speaker 2 (01:28:27):
But after.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
She had the or Battel had her snap with the
Vezda Pa, I was like, that might be something else,
like the the last lingering bits of that like brain,
that brain of the Gorn inside of his head that's
reacting to that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
That's what I thought. That's what I immediately thought, And
that's when where my mind went to, Oh, the Gorn
have an issue with whatever these are and whenever it
gets to the ship, but tell is gonna have a
problem and like that that that immediately clicked in for me.
But Stu, I think, is reading this as a Conspiracy
prequel because he thinks that thing looked like the Conspiracy Aliens,
which I can definitely see. But yeah, that's not how

(01:29:09):
I read that scene though, So I think I'm just
seeing it differently than Stu.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
I think, you know, if you think about it, the
way they've portrayed the Gorn in this series also look
like giant versions of the Conspiracy alien, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:29:21):
For sure, for sure. So so like that's why I
think he's drawing that connection, which who knows, I guess,
I guess if especially if we're talking about like what
if these things got like what if these uh pa
vesna paus got were somehow the Gorn and then they

(01:29:41):
were reput in the Gordon bodies somehow, and then we
end up with conspiracy Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:29:47):
Maybe, yeah, but you know they even said that. I mean,
I guess it doesn't matter, because you know, we're now
dealing with a situation where you've got the fucking ancient
Q creating technology that it spreadshit all over the galaxy
all of the you know, a multiple galaxies, and so
I guess it doesn't really matter where those conspiracy aliens

(01:30:10):
came from or where they were sending that signal to
or whatever. It could be anywhere and it can still work.
I personally believe where they're going with it is that
the Gorn were genetically engineered. They were created to fight
these creatures, and I think that they don't have them.

(01:30:31):
I feel like whatever they've done with their brains, however,
they've engineered them, these non corporeal creatures, these vesda PA
cannot infiltrate the Gorn. M maybe said I think that,
and I think you will find that, and I think
they'll say it outright in some way that these creatures

(01:30:52):
who wind up eventually becoming the Queue created the Gorn
specifically to fight these creatures and to contain them here
in this prison.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
Hmmm. Yeah, I don't. I don't know about the containment
part because that's just doesn't seem like the Gorns MO.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
But I do.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
I do really like the theory of the Gorn being
the the a biological weapon.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Well we're talking about species, you know, you go back
far enough, that was their purpose. And now they've taken
they've gotten all these out of the out of the universe.
What do you do, well, yeah, just become the Gorn eventually.

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
Yeah. Well, I just imagine like let's say the Queue
or ascending and they're like this thing we're creating, like
it's gonna kill sentient life for you know, millennia, it's
gonna like be around killing sentient life and then then
like engineering a sleep cycle, you know what I mean, Like, well, yeah,
we we gotta we gotta it needs to be around

(01:31:51):
because it needs to be able to take on the
vesnapah when needed, and it also needs to feed to survive.
But like, maybe we can let it, let let sentient
life thrive by giving it like a hibernation cycle. Yeah,
and I you know, I would love to see, you know,
John Delancy show up in some gas just form again,

(01:32:11):
you know, linking life for him and be like, oh,
we've forgotten about those, you know, millennia ago. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
I generally like the seriousness of the episode and the
creepy horror take. I can't not see some similarities to
Prometheus with the cosmic horror aspect and exploring an old
tomb uh rip Gamble didn't need the Hea Ortega's element
to things. And I really want to be done with
the Spock Chapel drama as it now seems to be

(01:32:44):
resulting in Corby acting and secure and being less likable
from his initial appearance take care of you know what.
I'm good with Korby being unlikable. He was unlikable as
hell in the original series. But yeah, I do I
I okay, So I was fine with her and ortegas
except for the scene where he's like freaking out and
she's like just breathe. And part of me like that

(01:33:08):
because it was a nice little maritter, like her first
away mission back in season one, and she was like
all panicky and shit, and it's nice to see that
character development of where she's how how far she's come.
But also like as a person who frequently experiences like
panic attacks and anxiety, like I'm like, yeah, he took
one breath and he was like thank you. I'm like, yeah,
that ain't how that works. That ain't how that works.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
You ain't gonna just take one breath and be like, oh,
I'm good.

Speaker 2 (01:33:34):
The fuck.

Speaker 1 (01:33:39):
Like, no, she's gonna have to talk to him for
like an hour and a half as he's like sitting
on his on like the ground, clutching his chest and shit,
like he needs to start rocking and stemming right now.
I just I did it just didn't. It didn't have
to be like that, but it just I didn't really

(01:33:59):
believe it. I'm like, dude, you were trapped in an
interdimensional fucking prison where they're like starved pieces of shit
corpses laying next to you, and some dude just got
his eyes blown out and you don't have any access
to the rest of your landing party. Yeah, I would
be absolutely batshit crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Yeah for sure, be freaking out.

Speaker 1 (01:34:20):
Ain't no slow deep breath gonna fix that shit.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
That's it's a valid point. It's a valid point.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
That's all we got. That's all I've got. Feedback is concerned.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
I'm I guess let's let's let's end it there, because
I will go on and on and on about this episode.

Speaker 1 (01:34:36):
I did really love this episode.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
I love it. I love it so much, and I'm
really glad. It's just I was so worried after last week.
I was so disappointed a last week's episode that I
was kind of in this place of like, do I
even care about the show anymore? Like, am I just being?
Am I just like past the point where this show

(01:34:59):
can get, you know, like, have I lost my willingness
to go along with whatever the show is trying to do?
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:35:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
And then this show, this episode comes along, and obviously
that's not it. I am not, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:35:15):
I every once in a while, when I'm real down,
I'll get to that place where I'm just like, I
don't even like the fucking show anymore. Do we even
need to talk about this? But at the same time, like,
I have watched some bad Star Trek sure, and I
you know, I have watched the Bad Dude. I've sat
down and I've watched all of season three of t
OS multiple times. Sometimes it's just like, am I sure

(01:35:38):
I like this show? Also, season three of the original
series is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it
out to be.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
We're good.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
Uh yeah, there's I grew up with a ship. I'm
gonna watch every episode and you know that go goes
out to anyone still listening who's mad for any reason? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
Best. The thing is like we do this podcast because
we love this stuff, but like I don't like podcasts
with stuff I just hate. And I was getting I
was getting in a weird, dark place with Star Trek.
I was like, do I just not like New Star
Trek right now? Like we're we're always just very critical
and I just don't I'm not enjoying it. But then
an episode like this comes along and just completely revitalizes me.

Speaker 1 (01:36:22):
Yeah, And every once in a while we'll get like
a comment somewhere and be like, why are y'all even
talking about this? Like just don't watch it. I'm like,
that is not an option for me. I'm going to
watch Star Trek. If they make Star Trek, I will
watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:36):
Yeah, And I do think that, like there's been really
instructive things about the show that you're gonna learn by,
like why this one was different and why this one
worked so well. And I'm hoping that they'll see that
and take those lessons. All right, man, Well, Joel untrue.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
I live long and prosper and don't pick up any
weird fucking glowing orbs, you asshole. Oh boy, all right,
you got me on the second, old boy.

Speaker 4 (01:37:06):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe Podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or malagus dot tv for his web videos. If
you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out
the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.

(01:37:27):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music

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