New Unconnected Star Trek Film + Khan Canonicity, A Sisko Tease and... Pluribus!?

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode of Star Trek Universe, we are catching
up on a little bit of news. We have old mysteries,
Final Horizons, and a new film and development. When we returned.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to Star Trek Universe, the podcast we can listen
in on two lifelong friends sit and chat about Star Trek.
My name's Matthew Carroll.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah, I'm David C. Robinson. What's up man? I don't know.
Did you laugh because I said my name? Weird? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
You said your name. It sounds like you said Robinson.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
I said Robson Robinson, Yeah, Roberson.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Yeah, yes, that is why I was laughing. Yeah, So
what's up man? He has life?

Speaker 1 (00:47):
I don't know. I wish I could tell you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
So he asked me a couple weeks ago, and I
was like, I don't know. I haven't checked in with myself.
And I just like took him took a moment. I
was like, ooh not great now. Yeah, both body, mind
and spirit not aligned at all.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I don't know. Oh, let me check my lifebox. Oh fuck,
that looks bad.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I got married since lastbody this podcast, I think, right, yeah,
that's right. Yeah, we saw each other in person. Yeah,
and that was weird. Yeah, not that, not that we
live far away at all. You live like ten minutes
from me. We should see each other more often. But
my wedding was an occasion to do so that was
it was fun.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah. And your wedding was like thirty minutes away. Yeah,
that's true. It was further away.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
It would just be to go see you in the
mid yeah, yeah, but it was it was a whole
different thing, you know, big event.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, actually it was very small event. But you know
that too. That was fun. It's a good time. But
you know, uh, did you did you read the card?
Did you read my card? I did? I did? I remember?

Speaker 2 (02:06):
It was funny, you like wrote something completely unrelated to
the to the thing.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah, I really remember. Is I said a happy birthday
and no less than fourteen more or something like that.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's right. You gave me a long happy
birthday card.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, like my wife wrote a whole thing. Yeah, and
then sure, and then I separately wrote a bunch of
weird shit.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah it was great. I really I really appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
So did Page. We both laughed. Yeah, I've made it,
ask you, but I've just just totally just forgotten till
just now. No, it's all good.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, we looked at all, like on the day and
we had looked at all. We got a bag full presence.
We going to go through and like write think thank
you notes. You know we have not done a good job.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Well, we're in the middle of a page. Is finishing
law school. It's her last Like she's she's done with
law school tonight basically, so she's got one more paper
she's gonna do a little extra work on, but she
doesn't have to do it. She's like, if she wanted
to be, she could be completely done with law school tonight.
So that's really cool, that's awesome. Yeah, excited, very excited

(03:17):
for it. Well, you wanna talk about Star Trek.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, sure, I guess you said.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
The news didn't send me to look at her watch,
so I did just along for the ride. I might
have heard a few of the things I did hear
about the new movie. Yeah, which I'm guessing is our headline.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Ah, sure, I mean sure.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
You know, And I'm well, I am going to very late.
We've buried the lead far enough.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Fine, Fine, I mean you know what I put that
story at the very end, I did.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I did bad journalistic instincts.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Probably, but no, you know how you would like listen
to old you listen to radio shows and they be
like this horrible thing coming up, but first and then
like they drag it out there.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah I get that, but that's the worst kind of
I hate that ship. And I realize it's a thing
that might like get people to listen longer, but yeah,
I I have this is my problem with like everything
I do.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
I don't want to see and say like I'm like,
you know, overly moral or anything, but like I just
don't have the like I don't want to make a
thing worse to make it more popular, you.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, I just have this thing, and it's tough because
like there's a there's a there's a there's a hard
it's not a hard line. It's like this weird gradient
of like well, if you title it this, that's ale.
It's not exactly deceptive, but it might be a little
bit like people might assume you mean this, and is
that wrong or is It's like I hate it's it's
so hard to be have anything grow in an internet space,

(05:07):
you know, because you have so many people that are
writing just like ridiculous headlines and then like I would
much rather grow my podcasting life as like, oh, when
they click on us, they just know they're gonna get
something they trust.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
You know. Yeah. I also that's generally why I do
tend to just take that decision out of my hands,
because like I have seen, I've tried it both ways
where you hold off to the very end and that
feels dirty, but then you like put it up front
and then you see your pretension rate drop immediately and like, oh.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
It's exactly where. Yeah, it's exactly what happens. That's why
they do it. Yeah, So I generally I don't mind
it being uh, I don't mind it being later or
something normally, Like I don't really. I mean like on
Multiverse News, we do the big story first, or like
the one the one we think our audience is there
for first. But like just I feel like it's just
good practice. But like I just watch all these I

(06:03):
watch all these YouTube shows that'll be like this big
political thing happened, and you click on it and they're like,
but first, let me talk about other contexts for the
big thing for seven minutes, and then you get to
the thing and it's like someone sent a text that
had something sketchy in it, and it's like, yeah, why
don't know why I waite seven minutes of my life
on this, yeah freaking thing.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
So generally, I usually we'll go with whatever's happening, soonest
that makes sense, is gonna happen, is gonna be talked
about first, but we can go ahead and get to it.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
We we heard this whole We've been here, and guys,
I swear to god, I keep saying this on both
of my podcasts. Take rumors with a grain of salt,
because we actually got news that Paramount had moved on
from the Kelvin verse. Shit, okay, no more, Chris Pine,
no more? Is that? So they did that, and then

(07:04):
this big rumor broke out that said that they were
basically putting a line under that they were just like
starting this Simon Kinberg star Trek Origins trilogy and it
wasn't gonna have anything to do with any of the
Paramount plus stuff. They were just going to circumvent all
of that and go back to Prime timeline. And then

(07:27):
Actual News dropped this news from Deadline that Jonathan Goldstein
and John Francis Daily are coming in to write, produce,
and direct a new original Star Trek film under their
gold Day Production banner, and it's a completely new take
on the Star Trek universe. It's not connected to any
previous or current television series, movie, or prior movie development projects.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, and the way that's the way that comes off.
I feel like there are two possible meanings to that.

Speaker 1 (07:59):
One.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
It's out of cannon like it's a reboot, and I
think a lot of people are running with that as
a headline. So yeah, when you say Star Trek rebooted
on this podcast, just know that we're hypocrites. But I
think it's also very likely they'd mean, like, it's not
a Deep Space nine movie, it's not a next generation movie.

(08:22):
It's just something else in the Star Trek universe, which
I would welcome. I think that sounds great.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
Yeah, I hope that it is. I wouldn't mind a reboot, honestly,
But at the same time, I wouldn't mind if it
was just like something else in the universe. Like I've
said and complained many times, universe still is too small.
They've got to like reference the same like, you know,
three or four TV shows over and over and over.

(08:50):
And it would be great if they did something that
just had nothing to do with any of that shit,
and it was like still in the prime timeline or
you know, if they felt like it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
The other thing we know about this is the writers,
which like I don't. I maybe they're big Star Trek
fans and they have a vision, you know, So I
don't I don't want to cut it out, but I
feel like I looking at John Francis Daily's IMDb, it's
just like a lot of comedy. I feel like, apparently

(09:22):
he worked on The Flash, so you know a little bit,
and the Dungeons and Dragons. I knew that one, but
it's all kind of comedic, comedic, which and I just
find those shows to mostly be the movies that I'm
seeing from John Francis Daily seem just frivolous in this

(09:43):
like in this way that where they don't have all
that meat on their bones, you know.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
And I.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
It is my worry about Star Trek moving with the
new purchase and everything, that that's what we're going to
be getting, you know. Yeah, so that makes me further nervous.
I guess, Yeah, I don't know what to feel. I
don't know, I really don't.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I don't want to pigeonhole and be like, well, you
can't write uh, you know, drama or anything. But also
know that Paramount is likely going to be looking to
hit those four quadrants and they're gonna want some comedy
in there.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Well, yeah, I don't mind they're being comedy.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
It's just that there's ways to do.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Comedy that have like a lot of heart, and there's
ways to do comedy that you know, feel just like
like comedy, And there's nothing wrong with comedy, but it's
not Star Trek to me.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
And I see that. You know, Dungeons and Dragons, Honor
Amongst Thieves did very well. Yeah, critically I've seen, well,
I haven't either didn't do well financially, though.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
I've heard nothing but good things about it.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Now, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:42):
I haven't really dug in to see if there's a
lot of depth to the movie or not. But it
seemed kind of like a like a comedic Advenger movie,
so similar to all the other stuff he's been a
part of writing.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Aside from seeing the action fingers at all, these I
had no I don't know. I have no in person
impression of it at all. Really, I know Chris Pine
was in it, they did the Horrible Bosses series. I
did love those movies.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah, I love those movies too. They wrote on they
were with the screenplay for Spider Man Homecoming. Oh, so
like there's some there is some depth there. There's some
moments of depth in that. So you know, maybe maybe
they've got something. Maybe maybe we've got a great team here.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's got to
be better than nothing, though, Yeah, for sure. Well I
say that, but often I see Star Trek and go
I wish they'd just not done it. Yeah, it's like
Section thirty one.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
I hateed that that ended up feeling that way. Yeah,
after being something we've been excited ever since, you know,
we saw that Basher episode on d S nine, Yeah,
years ago.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
The last time. Section thirty one was interesting. I liked them.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
The rest of d S nine, like all of nine,
was interesting. But but yeah, that the kind of yeah
though it was it was a gentle roll downhill from
that one episode. Sure, well maybe maybe a slight incline

(12:15):
to the point where they're trapped in Sloan's head and
he's dying and yeah, and loved that Bashier's uh you know,
uh trying to get Chief to confesses is undying like
for him. Yep, I love that great, great episode, so

(12:35):
so I I yeah, I loved and that's why for
years we were.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Like, let's do a section thirty one series. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Anyway, So overall, I guess, what's your thoughts on on
the idea of a new movie unconnected to anything they're
currently making.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
I I would I don't care at this point, like
there's nothing they've said has gotten me excited. Uh, I do,
I would have. I'm I think I would have been
more excited to see Chris Pine playing Kirk in his
fifties in the kelvin Verse. Sure, Honestly it was funny.

(13:09):
I'm just so tired when I saw that this was
I saw that the screen ran or somebody was like,
they've decided to shudder the kelvin Verse. And uh I
commented on Facebook and it just said, eh, whatever, I remember,
I remember you posting that, and it was it was

(13:31):
liked by Adam Nimoy. Yeah, I was like, I need
I want to know the story.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, talk about bearrying the lead. That's the main story
this week. Liked your tweet.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
I know, No, I don't care about that. Well, I
care about it is like why did he like that tweet?
Like why that one? Like does he do Ian Leonard
just kind of it was Leonard like hopeful for the
first one and then kind of like afterward he was just.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like yeah, I mean it's it's the you know, it's
the movie that finally like actually replaced you know, his father.
So so I could see like there being and he
also appeared in the first one, but like I could
see the second one, Yeah, as a hologram right or
was he was?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
No, No, he was just on the view screen talking
about like calm, motherfucker, he's dangerous, you know. Yeah, and
then he was he had passed away by the third. Yeah.
M But I like the Covin Verst movies enough I
would kind of like to see at least one more
out of that. But I get it, I get one

(14:39):
to switch over. I'll never forgive them for passing on
Noah Haldy's Star Trek.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
I know, like I really do feel like it's a
similar to how I feel when I think and I
like the ant Man movies, but when I think about
what would have been if the Edgar they let Edgar
write do his thing.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Yeah, but I mean that was, you know, written before
Iron Man, so there was stuff in there that they
weren't planning on doing.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Right, right, So I understand they had to make changes,
and he didn't want to make changes, and I understand
all of that, but like, I just feel like there
might have been a middle ground somewhere where they could
have come to. But it's just one of those things
that I'll always regret. But both of those things a lot, Yeah,
because I think those those two, Yeah, those two, those
two would have been great.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Now.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
I'm kind of surprised that these two guys coming on
because they just their big move, their biggest movie. Uh probably,
I don't know if it's their biggest, but Dungeons and
Dragons was pretty well liked and was big in the
culture for a minute, and Chris Pine being in that, Uh,
I'm almost surprised. This isn't the new Kelviskelvin Verst movie.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
I mean, if you know, I would assume that it's
just a situation of Paramount wants to move on from that. Yeah,
the new the new Haunches. Yep. Uh, So we can
jump back to what I originally considered was the beginning
of this episode. I don't have a big finish now, Matt.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
No, man, it's all downhill from here. Guys, see you later. Yeah, yeah,
just before you leave. Jill untrue, eat a dick. Sorry
it took Effie's line, So yeah. Jonathan Frakes said that
he he directed one episode of Academy Starfleet Academy, and

(16:25):
that is his last Star Trek that he'll be directing
for the foreseeable future.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
He has no more plans to direct any Star Trek.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
That means paramount plus stuff's going away.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
It sure does.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, it means exactly what that means the creative team
that's been making all this stuff because they've had him
directing all the time, and if he had any inkling
that they were like gonna be making more seasons of Academy,
he would just beat.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
He wouldn't be saying that. Yeah, I think. So he
got to do one episode of Academy and he didn't.
He wasn't slated for anything on Strange New Worlds as
they were wrapping up. Course, they're both in production at
the same time. Freak said he met but did not
direct Paul Giamatti. He did say Giamatti is happier than

(17:09):
a pig and shit.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
To be doing Star Trek to be oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah,
that's cool.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
So yeah. They cast Brent Marling as the voice of
the USS Athena on the Allan Starfleet Academy. And she's
been on the oay As. I guess that's how you
said that with Jason Isaacs. And she was in the
thriller and Murder at the End of the World and
wrote and headlined the twenty eleven sci fi drama Another Earth.

(17:41):
So they got her. This was a weird one. And
we don't know what series this is on. This might
be for Starfleet Academy or Strange New Worlds. But Deirdre
Hall best known as doctor Marlena Evans on Days of
Our Lives which I used to watch. I remember Marvelne
again because that's by the Devil and shit, she was

(18:03):
like floating and like making a chandelier, falling some married
folk and whatnot. She and the show she's a therapist
and man, she is all sorts of crazy stuff on
Days of Our Lives. Now she's got to be on
Star Trek as a freaking therapist.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Oh, I wonder if it's on the Holidack. She's like
playing the character from the show.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
Yeah, I don't know. She was on the TV water Cooler,
she says, talking about filming in Toronto. I was just there.
I was up there doing Star Trek. I love Toronto.
She said, ask me what I play on Star Trek.
It's not who is what, and then revealed she's a psychiatrist.
M that's so weird and funny. Like, I don't think
I've ever heard of I mean, has she been on

(18:48):
anything else? I haven't looked her up.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
She apparently was on Hacks recently, only only in one episode.
But I feel like that show, I mean, that show
is all about like an older, you know, comedian, so
it makes sense that they'd be pulling from other uh
and the the star of it was, you know, on
designing women and stuff. So like, yeah, it makes sense

(19:10):
that they're pulling from older TV personalities and stuff to
be on there. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (19:16):
That's kind of fun. It'd be weird to see her. Yeah. So.
A co runner of Starfood Academy Noga Landau said this
in an interview with Screen Rant. And there's also mysteries
watch out for Benjamin Cisco. We get to do some
really cool stuff that hasn't been done in a long time.

(19:37):
That I think really honors the fans who have been
waiting to see what happens. So we definitely know who
we are and the shoulders that we are standing on today. Interesting,
I don't trust them at all.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, Well it's weird because we know there's like a
Benjamin Cisco placard or like some some information thing in
the trailer. Yeah, but to me that that was the
thing that they put in there to like try to
hook us d S niners.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
In the fact that.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
This person is saying it like again, like reiterating it,
double down, doubling down, it means like they think it's
a big enough deal that they're that they or or
think it's not so bad to deceive us further, you know, right.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
Right, And I don't trust it, Like I'm like, are
y'all just gotta put put a silhouette of that man
on that thing? And at like we didn't see it
in the trailer, as say watch out for Benjamin Cisco,
and they like that was it. The Texas said, did
he really die in the fire caves?

Speaker 2 (20:40):
He said, like people have been wondering what happened. I
wonder if they'll I'm one it'd be amazing if they
did something where they actually brought him in, that'd be amazing,
or did something to like resolve that story in the
in this show. But I have a feeling, like when
she says they've been wondering what happened, like, I have
a feeling they're just gonna have like some throwaway line

(21:03):
like did he actually die in the fire caves and
did it? Like just say no, he came back in
the year blah blahlahlah blah and then did this And
it's like, yeah, no, I don't want to hear about that.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Now.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
I want to see that movie. I realize it's very
unlikely at this point, but I still want to see it.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, I mean, look, the best I could hope for
at this point, because you know, all respect to Avery Brooks,
he's not much for the doing things these days. A
bit of a recluse. Yeah, I don't know, like throw

(21:41):
me a line and says something to say something about
the ship of Theseus, you know, the US is Theseus
or whatever from the comics where he's like doing like
Cisco and a hodgepodge of different crew members from across
the different series or running around trying to like stop
these god killers in the universe. All right, give me

(22:02):
an excuse to go buy that comic. Yeah, I just don't.
I'm so afraid that they're gonna screw something up or
make it worse, or just not do anything at all.
Be like that was it.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
They've left this amazing mystery slash like you know what's
gonna happen next story for like twenty years, and so
the fact that this person saying we're gonna do something
with it is exciting. I can't I can't say that
I'm not excited. But I'm also, like you said, I'm
not trusting. I'm very restent to see what they do.
I'm guarding my heart, man, Yeah, guard your heart, Dave.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
It's good. Over to strange New worlds. I mean, we
know that we're gonna have Season four is gonna have
the crew turning into puppets at some point, mm hmm,
But it sounds like we'll be seeing fewer of these
out there concepts. Okay. Akiva Goldsman was talking to screen

(23:02):
Rant and said, we're making season five now, we're trending
towards that, which is probably the center line of Star Trek.
We're trending now and beginning with season four and through
season five to a much more singular sci fi action
adventure emotional storytelling, and you know, the outliers are getting
less and less as we kind of focus on saying
goodbye to each other and the fans. Okay, that sounds

(23:25):
great for the same good byepart what oh no, that
sounds great. And I'm hoping it's good enough that by
the end you won't feel that way. I hope, So,
I hope, so, I hope I can just look back
and be like season three had some had a couple
of fun ideas, and then yeah, I didn't like a
lot of it.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
That's I mean, that's all Star Trek has these little
troughs in it where things aren't as good as other
seasons and stuff. So you know, absolutely hopefully that's just
all that was last year. It's just it's tough for
especially podcasting, like there's something that sort of solidifies it
in my mind, Like I might not even notice a
season is bad. I might just kind of almost not

(24:03):
notice it. It sort of washes over me, you know
what I mean, when I podcast about it and I
have to get on here and be like you know
this episode was good or bad. It sort of just
like locks it in in my brain and I remember
it better than you know, if I just was watching
the show, you know, it would probably just slowly sort
of fade into the background if I wasn't liking it,

(24:24):
you know.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, I feel like, you know, I feel like we
try to be pretty positive even when we don't like something. Yeah,
but I feel like the worse it gets in the season,
if it continues to be middling or mid I feel
like by the end of the season, we're just like, well,
this whole season was shit because it just like the

(24:47):
next bad one or mediocre, when like Colors, the last
one a little dark exactly. Yeah, all right, moving over
to this thing that I did not like the trailer
for you know con is that the audio pod the podcast,
the Audio Adventure of Ya con.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
It's all out there now, it's all released. I haven't
listened to it, have you at all?

Speaker 3 (25:08):
No?

Speaker 1 (25:08):
What is it on? I don't know podcast apps?

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Oh, it's a podcast, Okay, it's a pot was a
podcast for like an audio drama on Audible or something?

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Yeah, No, it was released as a podcast. Cool, and
so it's out there. We can listen to it. I
have not felt like listening to it because I thought
the trailer sounded like garbage. But uh, bad news. Uh.
Star Trek novelist and TV writer Kristin Bayer, along with

(25:41):
David Mack, who was also a novelist and consultant on Prodigy,
they were the ones who did who scripted the nine
episode podcast series And they were asked a while back
if it was Cannon and there, and she said, there
are conversations I need to have. Well, now she's come back,
She's Okay, Here's what I can tell you, because I

(26:02):
have had a few conversations. There is nobody who comes
along and like waves a magic scepter and dubs a thing, Cannon.
What I can tell you is that for the people
currently working on Star Trek, Star Trek con will be
treated as canon, meaning it will not be overwritten or contradicted.
It will be, when possible, incorporated into future storytelling. And

(26:25):
they don't have likes anything else coming, but they are
they do have some ideas for audio adventures they want
to do beyond this.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Okay, I would listen to audio adventures, especially if they
were canon, Like I would, I would totally be down
for that. Yeah, I mean I do from time to
time now, Like we go on Audible when I have
too many points and I don't have books I want
to read at that moment, and I get like my
Audible points get stacked up. Sometimes I'll just go by
like a run of Star Trek books and just have

(26:55):
them there in case whatever whatever I'm on a road
trip or whatnot.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah, she she did say it's too soon to have
a real sense of what this really did for us
numbers wise. She says she loved to do more. The
more I think about it, especially after this one, I
am more anxious to actually do a completely original story
done this way that could carry forward without necessarily being
set that it's only going to be one season. That's

(27:21):
actually what I think would be more exciting for me,
rather than digging back into the known. You know, there's
all this stuff in the Lost Era that she wants
to get into as well. So are she and David Max. So, yeah,
you know, I get it. It's like it feels like
Doctor Who in the big finish audio books.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Right, I said, right, Like, I know they've had audiobooks.
I've not meant to meant much really.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Oh, the doctor who everything means something like they it's
all just like Timey whinmy crazy shit, Like.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Yeah, it's like because the Timey whyman is of it.
It's like everything means something, I guess, but also nothing
means anything, right. Well that's where we are with Star
Trek now kind of yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Because of tomorrow, tomorrow and tomorrow. Yeah, it was just
and they could do anything outside of can it be like,
well it's cannon now because of temporal wars? Well, this
is before a certain faction in the temporal war to
a thing. So that's what this means. Like they can
really do whatever they want.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, sure, yeah, I just wish they'd make it explicit
so we could understand what's going on. I don't like that,
as We've had this conversation plenty of times, but I
just don't like using the fans to be like it's
still canon. You need to see the thing that you
love and then it's not really.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yeah, and you know we have these conversations and you
and I feel this way. Yeah, and but self proclaimed
more evolved Star Trek fans love to share that meme
of Leonard Dye Boy's quote where he's like Star Trek
fans need to forget about canon and being more concerned
with where Star Trek want to take me today. And
I'm like, oh, that's a nice, high minded, pithy thing

(29:05):
to say, but uh for people who are, you know,
probably autistic, No, I just I think I don't. It
breaks my suspension of disbelief. It breaks it pulls me
out of the world exactly when I'm like, well, what
does this mean for this?

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, I get that it does me too for sure,
and it just I mean, like I said in a
second ago, but for the thing it really bothers me
is it's you're either in the same universe and you're
in can or you're not. I don't mind if they
make not Cannon Star Trek and they do a totally
different thing, but the playing on the edge where they're like,
it's kind of it's Cannon, But then when you watch it,

(29:44):
you're like, this isn't canon. There's all these reasons it's not.
It just and as those reasons pile up and pile
up and pile up, it's just kind of like, I
feel like you tricked me, you know, like you are
actively using my fandom against me in a way that
I don't appreciate.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
And the reason they do this, the reason that the
producers for this new shit on Paramount plus not actively
saying that all of it shit or anything, just you know,
the reason they all say that, oh, this is the
prime timeline, and they have tried so hard to be like, well,
we're pushing up against Cannon, we're body checking Canon, we're
The reason they're doing that is because Star Trek and

(30:25):
Paramount they make the most money off Star Trek for merchandise,
right right, more than subscriptions anything. Merchandise, and the merchandise
that they make money on is primarily TNG and cos. Yeah,
Prime timeline, no Kelvin verse. No one gives a shit

(30:46):
about that shit merchandise wise. So they keep saying like, oh, yeah,
that's still can and that's still Cannon. Bullshit, it's not.
They're trying to like have their cake and eat it too.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
Yeah, exactly like much. Well, and that's what I appreciated
about the Kelvin timeline was that it it's Cannon, but
they made it clear how it's Cannon. Yeah, you know,
it's different, and they didn't make any bones about it
being different. It's just they gave it a reason to
be different.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Mm hmm. I mean they've now given a reason several
years in to why things are different on the paramoun
plus stuff. It seemed to.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
It's kind of it's just sort of this like time
travel can change things which we know and we can
all assume all along. It's just kind of to me
that means that means you're in the world of Doctor
Who now where nothing matters. Yeah, yeah, and like you're
telling me, this character exists and all the things that
have happened to them before or after have happened to them.

(31:47):
But now I have to resolve the fact that that
isn't true because the butterfly effects, small changes are just
gonna be get more and more bigger changes to a
universe which.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Star Star Trek does both versions of Times novel, where
if you go in the past you create another branch
of reality. Sure, so you always create an alternate reality,
all right, cool, But now you're saying the temporal wars
have overwritten reality, so it is like the original time,
I'm still out there somewhere, like in a different branch

(32:18):
or which one we don't know.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Yeah, well, and there's no real answers to any this
it's just the only way to have a truly consistent
show where time travel is a thing is to use
like the twelve Monkey style. But like it's not that's
not tenable for ongoing storytelling. So you know, twelve Monkey

(32:41):
is the movie, you know the series.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
I haven't seen the series as as I've said before, though,
I would say that the Kelvin timeline was a separate
universe already, because when they showed the Kelvin, that shit
was way further along technologically than anything I saw in
the original series, Like the the the architecture of the

(33:03):
ship looked like it was it was like into the
movie era already. Yeah, but that could go.

Speaker 2 (33:10):
With your a theory I've heard from you many times,
which is like styles can fluctuate and go through different cases.
So like, sure, it's possible that it was a ship
from that era.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Sure, you know all the holograms and stuff on the
bridge was a little Yeah not.

Speaker 2 (33:27):
We we've seen you know, Pike just had to remove
all that. No, I'm sorry, that's how it works. No,
I don't want to discoveries canon now.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Yeah, the Calvin verse was the prime was the until
the incursion was the prime timeline post all the temporal wars. Sure, God,
it's just so annoying. Yeah, especially since Paramount Plus and
the Kurtsman era of people, like they haven't even been
consistent with what they've been doing, like they have. Lower

(34:01):
Dex is referencing both the styles from Disco and Strange
New Worlds and the original series, and Prodigy has ignored
Strange New Worlds and Disco and has only referenced the
original series in terms of aesthetic. And it's just odd,
it's just weird. I don't know. Yeah, for sure, I

(34:22):
just want to go in there in a clean fucking house, man. Yeah, Like,
all right, let's get Will Wheaton. We're gonna make us
a time travel show that fixes all this shit.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
I do think, just like, I mean, the answer to
all this to me is just jump forward. Just jump forward.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
That's what they're doing Starfleet Academy. I just couldn't care.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Well, that's not that's jumping forward way too far first off,
and it's not it's jumping off of Disco, which the
thing that jumped backwards. So like the way they did
it the next generation, they needed to update all the
like whatever's on right now, you need it to look
like in my opinion, like it could happen. And so

(35:07):
if you have the clicks and toggles and stuff, it
kind of you know, you're like, well, why don't they
have We have iPads in our hands right now. Why
don't they have that on the spaceship. So in New
Star Trek they have they have iPads and stuff. They
had iPads way before the iPad. But like if the
pads on a TNG looked very much like iPads, and

(35:27):
so you've got all that, So why why I just
don't understand why they didn't jump forward a little bit
more or just continue forward like a legacy show like
Legacy and just make that next show. It's because they
just want to capitalize on the old stuff instead of
making something new that people love.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, and hopefully if this they're talking about the Star
Trek movie, now, hopefully none of the characters show up,
like there, I don't want to see any more kirkan spot. Yeah.
If you're gonna go and do something, just do do
something original. Yeah, create new things. Yeah, totally. I think
I feel I fear with a movie they're gonna be

(36:11):
way to attempted to do characters like or you know,
but but they're saying it's unconnected, So maybe maybe it
saying it's unconnected. Yeah, I don't know. But at the
same time, I'm like really hoping. You know that all
over the internet that Star Trek United, Mike Sussman, Scott
back of the show has gotten a lot of great
press Susmen's both of them. I have actually been talking

(36:32):
a whole lot in interviews. A lot of fans are
very very excited about the President Archer show, So I
I hope I would love to see that to personally,
and I would love to see uh Star Trek legacy
at some point when Metallis can get it made, get
it pitched, and get it paid. Yeah me too. I
think it's a it's a no brainer both of those.

(36:53):
Yeah me too. I think I think those.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
Would be and they are no brainers. They connect to
the things that people would care about. It would be
easy to have crossovers and characters visit just like they
did it on TNG, but it would be a new
era with new characters and a lot and a new
world to explore.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I agree. That's all I got. Man. Oh wow, Okay, yeah,
took a few months to get that much.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Get a little bit of news going. Yeah, it's a
bit of a black box because they don't we don't
know what's happening next.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, we really don't. Now. Paramount's like trying to try
their best to buy Warner Brothers, and I really hope
that shit doesn't happen. Yeah, me too, man, me too.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
I really we've got to do something about our our
media consolidation in this country, in the world.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Well, I don't know, maybe every everything will be bought
up by a couple of things and then it'll implode.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Well, yeah, I agree, that is possible. I mean we're
already there, like everything's already bought up, and now it's
just like, does it implode and then we lose all
the things we love, the ongoing stories or is that
already happening?

Speaker 1 (38:05):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Like, are the stories we already we love just becoming
so run by the numbers people and and just becoming
he Man cartoons you know where it's like they're just
trying to come up with toys.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Uh. Yeah, it sucks. I don't want to be I
don't want.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
The show to be I don't want any of those
shows that I love, any of the any of my
favorite fictional universes, as we say over on Multiverse News, Yeah,
to be run by toy companies and investors, like I
want it to be a creative person who has an idea,
who wants to challenge me and create something new and
that and I think it sucks. Is like I think
that where that's actually happening is in the world of

(38:45):
like new content.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
But then you kind of lose plurbus.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Pluribus is so good, so good, so good. All right, well,
let's send fifteen minutes to talk about pluribus.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Ah recovered it.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
I don't always wanting, by the way, So if you're
if you're, if you're, if you're a pluribus fan, Oh man,
I'm loving pluribus.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
It's so good. Uh.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
I realize it's Latin and it's from you know, uh,
from a famous phrase and everything, but it to me,
the name itself when it's just said us one word
sounds like something out of Rick and Morty.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Dude, that was exactly what I said to Beth. Yes, absolutely,
I may have even said it to Jason on DC
on screen, but uh, yeah, that's wow. I always pronounce
that plurbusbis blurbs. Well, what do you think. What do
you think of Pluribus. I think it is a fantastic,

(39:47):
fantastic show. I'm loving every bit of it. I think
it's really cool. Uh everything they do, like the look
the little uh. I always love the little touches Vince
Gilligan does, like putting the action old Albuquerque mayor. Yeah,
fun as the mayor. Yea.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Yeah. By the way, I think we shouldn't spoil it,
probably because people probably haven't seen it. But if you
unless we want to tell everybone to spoil it. But
it's a great show. Go in knowing nothing. It's on
Apple TV. Plus, it's weird and fun, and it's Vince
Gilligan who made Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, and
he's just firing on all cylinders. But it is like
kind of high concept sci fi.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
So yeah, which this man did some of the best
stuff on X Files that happened on x Files, so
you shouldn't be put off by oh sci fi. Like
now check it out.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
We're on Star Treking his podcast. I felt like that
was a good pitch for this show.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, dude, people are weird though. People are like I
like Star Trek, but I don't like sci fi.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
It's we that is weird. I've never heard you say that.
I've seen a lot of people say that, Yeah, that's weird.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Like I don't want to watch, you know, harsh realm
that I'll watch Star Trek because I grew up with it.
It's like franchise love versus genre. Yeah, for sure, there's
definitely some of that. Also, it goes the other way
because like people like like you know, back in the
seventies when the first movie came out, Harlan Ellison was
like really on the on the line talking about in

(41:13):
interviews on television about how Star Trek isn't real soft,
real sci fi. Star Trek is cotton candy, it's brain rotten,
you know.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Yeah, yeah, which I said, see what they mean, like
that franchise sort of thing, popcorn TV sort of stuff.
Blurbus is great, go watch it.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, absolutely, Blurbus is great. I love it. I think
it's so interesting and uh, I can't wait to I
don't know what to say without spoiling it.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Well, yeah, we can just say, you know, say spoiler alert.
I just didn't want you to start spoiling before.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
We let everybody know we were spoil Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, So spoiler alert everybody, We're going to talk about
pluribus for a minute.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
What do you think? Do you think?

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Right?

Speaker 1 (41:58):
I think it's incredibly interesting to see this idea play
out like I and wondering if he will ever actually
say why certain people didn't get it or why certain
people died from it. Yeah. I do think it's interesting

(42:19):
because the first thing I thought of when I started
watching it was or in the second episode when it
started like oh, this is what we're doing. The first
thing I thought was like, oh, this is a commentary
on AI. But then Vince Gilligan came out and was like, nah,
man he was ready, Like yeah he had the idea
way before. Yeah, and sure he's it's clear that he's

(42:41):
like throwing some of that in because like this is
pertinent now. But you could almost imagine someone like one
of the alt right, anti cancel culture people trying to
make a show like this. Of course they wouldn't be
able to as well, they don't have it. They don't
have an inner life. Yeah yeah I said that on
this two weeks ago.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
But no, I I I joked in your life, but no,
they they I agree. Like when I started watching the show,
I was like I thought it was gonna be about
like kind of oh a hegemony and you're the one
like person who's different, you know, but and that is

(43:22):
that is in there for sure. But as I watch it,
and like a lot of the things they do, they're
sort of like, yeah, that the that the this the
Hive does that sort of like uh, liberal coded like
all the you know, the veganism and the uh the
well kindness.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
That's a joke.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
That's a joke, right, But no, I I have no
I think that that's like I think that he's right,
he's making a more complex show than than just like
absolutely it's one like somehow politically one sided. I guess
I think he's making much real complex So and it's
more about like what gives a person value? I think
is a big question that it's asking because watching this

(44:08):
show and all these a lot of people died, and
like I think they're my and my brush with the
show is that like like something about uniqueness of a
human being gives them value. And I think that's even
true for like the the Hive itself has this sense
of like, oh, we value it because they're willing to

(44:31):
put their own people at risk to care for Carol,
but it's interesting because they value her uniqueness, but they want.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
To s squelch it as well.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
And I think that's really fascinating, And like there's all
it's just it just is more complicated than any kind
of like simple allegory that I think I would think up.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
And I definitely had those same thoughts that you were
you were you were on the on the were like
I was like, this is kind of like an anti
woke thing maybe, but I don't. I don't think that's true.
I think it's just much more complicated and human than that.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
I do think that there might be something too, like
you know, the the bit from Mark Maron's latest special
where he says he talks about how the liberals, Uh,
he said, we we annoyed people into fascism. Yeah, there
might be something to that where it's like to to

(45:32):
that notion where you know, we did just kind of
annoy people into like being against us because we thought
it was for their own good. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Now I don't I don't deny there's all kinds of
things you can read into it, I think, but I
really don't think. I think that my inclination and I
won't speak for you, but I think my inclination to
put any kind of like right left coded thing on
the Hive is just my own political broken brain, you
know what I mean. Like, I think so far the
show has done nothing to really make me think that

(46:04):
it is just to show to me it's like a
really good Star Trek episode. Honestly, Yeah, it feels like
a great Star Trek episode so far. I acknowledge that
it's my political broken brain to some degree, because that's
what we've that's what we've been raised in, is just
seeing this stuff.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
But I see as much. You know, when I look
at the Hive, you know, I'm seeing the extreme liberalism,
but I'm also seeing like extreme you know, Christian conservatives
trying to push their agenda. Yeah, sure, you know. And
it was just fucking you know, you want to talk
about pushing an agenda down somebody's throat, like the way

(46:43):
the Christian Conservatives talk about that, you know, oh liberals
and gays, And I'm like, what have y'all been doing
all these years? For sure? I well, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
The whole idea of woke distin cancel culture, Like who
was like getting mad at people saying happy holidays like
they they're their own, like right wing Christian, conservative woke
mob like they're they're just that. It's it's just their
own thing. It's just people put pressure on other people
two uh, to be more like them. That's just a

(47:15):
thing society does. And I don't think it's always wrong.
I think if you're right about the thing you're right about,
and you put put social pressure on people to not
do shitty things, great, But when you're doing it based
on a Bible that isn't true likes and and well,
that's I wouldn't even go that far. When you're doing

(47:35):
it based on your weird interpretation of a Bible that like,
you're ignoring all the love stuff, and the Bible never
mentions abortions even though they were having them. And so
if you've made your entire Christianity about abortion.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
You're not a Christian. You're just not a Christian.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
If your political identity is based on abortion and not
like feeding the poor, which Jesus said over and over
and over again, you're not a Christian. You're a Christian nationalist.
And it's just not the same thing.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
I think this show is partially at the very least
about all kinds of group think just all.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I don't even think that yet. I think that's you know, sure,
But the problem is the idea of group think is
inherently the idea that like there are separate people using
social pressure to conform to one idea.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Right.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
This is something very different though, it's the hive mind
is somehow because they're not pressuring each other, they're just
they have all the information and so they're making decisions
as a collective because they have all the information in
front of them, and they're making the best decisions they
can for the thriving of all living creatures, which is

(49:03):
like great, It's a very like humanist thing in a
way that like they're they're really trying to.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
Make a better.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
World and not waste and not kill, not hurt anything
they don't have to. Uh. But then one of the
things that I think is like their desire to please
Carol is toxic as fuck, And it's like what does
that mean? What does it mean that Vince Gilligan when
he thinks about like what is the average sum of

(49:36):
all human experience and what is their personality type? That
he thinks that the average mixture of all humans would
just be like a really big people pleaser.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
They're codependent on steroids, yes, like it is, yeah, as
wow it is.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
And like they don't want to kill bugs or anything, right, Yeah,
so they I understand not wanting to hurt Carol, like
that's part of their thing, but like I don't really
understand yet why they have a big desire.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
To please Carol.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
And I don't know that that's just like comes from
when you are a when you are a human being
and you are faced with a different human being in
front of you, You want to be liked, You want
to be you want to be harmony, harmonious with that person,
and they're they're all about harmony. So is their desire
to please Carol just an attempt to bring harmony between them,

(50:28):
maybe out of maybe out of altruism, but.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Maybe out of fear, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
There's a great line where she says, uh, yes, you
can meet the other five people that look that that
also are separate, but but we if you do that,
we can't protect you from each other. And like there's
no reason to think they're gonna kill her or anybody's
gonna hurt each other. They just know that people that
are different and can't don't have this technology in their head,

(50:55):
breeds conflict and they're just like, ooh, we saw what
the old world looked like. I don't know if it's
good for you guys that are different and don't have
your brains connected to be in the same room.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Well, also, this is the first This is humanity connected
in a way that they now have. Every single person
has firsthand experience of every kind of prejudiced, every kind
of of negative experience that everyone in the world has had.

(51:30):
I also wonder I have wondered though if this was
some I mean, it's vince. So I think it's gonna
be about all of these things, right exactly. I feel
like Carol represents the person who is depressed and rejects therapy.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Well, there's also a big I totally, I totally think
you're right. I think there's she's a she's a depressed
person holding on to her loneliness, you know, yeah, and
so what does that mean Her arc would be? You know,
if you're writing the show and you have a character
who wants to hold onto her loneliness, wants to keep

(52:10):
herself separate from everyone, the arc would be like for
her to eventually give in, you know what I mean,
that's the arc, but we'll see. I think that her
one of the interesting things you meet those other five people,
they all had family. Ye Carol lost Helen, and as

(52:32):
far as we can tell, that's the only person she
had in her life. She has not seen anyone else,
no one else when they when they wanted someone to
talk to her, they didn't bring her brother, or her
mom or her any And now we know from the
last episode that that she her mom sent her a
conversion camp and stuff. So like now we know that

(52:52):
like that they actually had a rough relationship, But it
sounds like she had such a rough relation to their family.
She doesn't have family she cares about. They just had
to look for someone who looked like her character from
the book, you know what I mean, Like they didn't
have anybody else. All the other five people had family
next to them, and they felt connected to the Hive
through the family, and Carol doesn't have that, and neither

(53:13):
does this other person that we've just met at the
cold open of episode four.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Yeah, but I'm like, I'm you know, I am in
no way expecting once again, it's events. I'm in no
way expecting everyone to or anyone to be innocent, and
you know, like I feel like the hive is going
to do some fucked up shit essentially, like it's gonna
be sicy. I feel like it already has because they
did all this without consent.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
That's an interesting question. Who did this without consent?

Speaker 1 (53:49):
Whoever the first like what it was? It one or
two people were.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Right, I agree, But to me, it's spread and is
still spreading, like like they said it's a virus at
one point, it spreads like a virus, and.

Speaker 1 (54:03):
It's like, yeah, it spreads like a virus, but it's
not quite a yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
So it's a technology. So it seems like they I mean,
and the way they acted immediately when that happened, it
was instinct they were not like doing it because they
were doing it in some nefarious way. It seemed like
as part of the virus was just like I gotta
spread this as much as I can, and so I

(54:28):
feel like that's a little different than like doing it
without consent. It seemed like they didn't have consent either,
like you know, they just got this thing and they
were kind of forced to act this way. I said
this on our always watching coverage of it. One thing
that I really think is interesting about it is this like.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Idea.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I had this idea that like, oh man, this is
some sort of alien virus, right, like an alien virus
has been sent to Earth to do this thing to
the Earth, right because it came from an alien But
then I realized, no, this is a somewhere out in
the galaxy. There's an alien society that this technology took over.
And then they're doing what all of them are doing,

(55:12):
which is throwing a life preserver to the Earth.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
Right.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
She talks about how if you if you had a
life preserver, you wouldn't throw it to someone. And so
like this virus that was sent through the stars as
communication was like in my mind, was from a planet.
It was already consumed by the Hive. And they were like,
we gotta tell everybody, you know, we got to spread
the word about the Hive.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Yeah, I'm so excited the new episode is coming. Earlier
this year when Wednesday, Oh.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
I didn't know that. I better talk to the guys.
You want to talk about it. They never want to
come on there. Feel free, all right, we're talking.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
We do it.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
We've been doing it whenever I think John Irons might.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Come on this week too. Okay, that's the thing about
this show, and that's the thing about Vince Gilligan shows.
Like I pretty comfortable talking about Star Trek, but Star
Trek is like basically the level of buy intellect I
can handle. Ah, like anything smarter.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
You might as well just leave me on. No, dude,
you you you undercut yourself. I think I think, I
think you have interesting ideas, and like, I think you
should just let yourself, let yourself, let yourself.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Do more than you think. Stretch yourself, you know, Yeah, no,
I get it. But you know, a cat can stretch
to open a door knob, but he's still ain't gonna
do it if he don't thumbs, you know for sure.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Well you know what, there's a I say that, but
I I just want to just so you don't feel
alone there uh pluribus you know.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
I Uh.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
I have absolutely felt that way many times. When a
show is like almost so good and interesting and complex,
I'm like, oh what, I'm always worried that I'm gonna
get on a podcast and talk about it and be like.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
This was cool.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
When like I'm that Chris Farley character from SNL where like,
you know, it was cool when this happened, and there's
that nerve. My nerves come into it sometimes.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, but I you know, I feel like they haven't
shown us a lot. But at the same time, I'm
also sitting there going like, there's do you like, do
you think that they're going because I haven't listened to
your podcast, I'm sorry, I didn't know it was the
thing that's fine? Do you think that, like their willingness
to give her an Adam Baugh her grenade for that's

(57:44):
going to be the thing that keeps her in it
as an individual for four seasons? No, because Vince Gilligan
said he sees it going three or four seasons.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I don't think that you mean, like as a threat, like.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Because they're saying that like, once they figure out how
to do it, they'll just do it. They'll just do it.
And she deeply does not want that. That will make
her unhappy. So yeah, so she thinks.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
They don't believe her, though they they they believe her
when she asks for an Adam bam if that's what
she wants for whatever reason. But the one thing they
believe above all is that being part of the hive
is the happiest state.

Speaker 1 (58:28):
You can be in.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Yeah, so I don't. I don't think that Adam Bomb
is gonna be how she gets out of it. I
think there's gonna be something to do with this this
guy we met and she's in episode four. Uh, they're
definitely gonna have some sort of connection soon, Like they're
gonna talk, They're both They seem like the only two
people that we've met in the world who seem like
they don't want to be a part of it.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Yeah, so far.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
I mean the other five that we met, some of
them seemed like they were gung ho to be a
part of it, and others seemed like, you know, like
the one guy was just really enjoying this sort of
like god status that had given him, you know, yeah,
flying around on the Air Force one with all these
beautiful women. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
So funny.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
And it's it's so so interesting because that's that's the thing.
It's like you talked about, like this idea of consent,
and like, I find it really creepy that this guy's
using his position to get all these women to just
do what he says, because they'll do whatever he says,
so he just tells them clearly to do sex on him.

(59:37):
But as as Zosha says, like, and there's not really
an affection that we reject.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Like we always want affection. And it's like.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
They are such a different creature than normal human that
is he being creepy. It feels creepy to me. But
it's a totally different world and these are totally free
class of people, and it's just it's just really interesting
and like they don't identify with their bodies in the
way that we do, Like our bodies are who we are.

(01:00:09):
Their bodies are not who they are. When they say
when they talk about themselves as as as one single human,
they said, they don't talk about themselves in the first person.
They say this individual. And so they just don't have
a sense of self. And so the idea of like
consent and like some someone crossing lines with them doesn't

(01:00:32):
feel doesn't feel like it's a it's a a violation
of anything because they don't have a sense of self.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
It's very yeah, dicey, it's dicey to talk about like
I'm sending here trying to talk about it. It's like
hard to find the words to talk about this without
sounding uh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yeah, they talk about every individual in the past tense.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yes, which makes me feel like all the individuals are dead,
but they aren't. They're all part of this thing, and
like it's a challenging show, and so far it's a
very challenging show. And I am pumped because I trust
Vince Gilligan that he is going to do something interesting
with it. Oh definitely, that he has a he has
a plan or an idea for where he wants this

(01:01:13):
show to be and go, uh yeah, I didn't know
what it was. And then I found out Vince and
Rhea and I was like, oh shit, that's absolutely a
thing that's happening in media.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
It's great, too sweet toot sweet Yeah. Apple TV is a.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Just hit all cylinders man, so good.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
I'm still I'm still giving him the side eye for
canceling Big Door Prize. I never saw that. It was
so fucking good, so good. I may have to go
watch it. And they ended on such a big close
to Chris so Dowd.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
I don't know we've talked about it, but are you
watching uh Severance? Okay, I can remember, like I feel
like I knew he talked about it when it was on.
But it's been so so many months. I don't remember
yea like Severnce so much. All right, well, we're gonna
get out of here. Thanks for thanks for joining us, everybody.

(01:02:12):
We'll be back to talk more Star Trek next week
and probably more Playerbus.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
We're being honest. Will we be back to talk about
more Star Trek next week?

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Oh no, probably not, but you might be like what
you might be soon though it is soon.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
January fifteenth, I guess that's not that soon.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I keep I keep thinking work, I keep thinking of
a few weeks away from UH start for the Academy,
but like it's like two months is more like it?

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Yeah? Yeah, Fie and I have more. We have watched
the final three episodes of UH season two of the
original series, and I've done the show art for all that,
and but we haven't recorded yet. And I've just gotten
word is sick. So I don't know how that's gonna

(01:03:05):
play into what we were planning as a recording session
this week, but we'll get that going sad.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
That's great man getting through that gonna be gonna be
done with the original series for long.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Mm hmm. That's fun. I've been on a spiral because
I love Assignment Earth with Gary seven, and it was
a supposed to be. It was a backdoor pilot. So like,
I'm just like, I don't know, looking around for like
extra curricular stuff, and I found a comic book series
by John Byrne Nice. There's like every issue takes place

(01:03:42):
a year later, so it's like, you know, ROBERTA. Lincoln
and Gary seven are running around with isis and and
going on adventures, and yeah, I'm going to my little
my little spiral.

Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
But I had a big divert into something this week
I found. I knew it was coming, but I missed it.
Magic the Gathering. You know, I liked I like that game,
but I don't really play it because it's just too
hard to follow, Like I can't keep up it. To
be good at Magic the Gathering you get to play

(01:04:15):
it like every week or multiple times a week to
like know all the cards and stuff, and I just
But it turns out they have a Spider Man set,
and so I bought a booster box of the Spider
Man set, and I invited friends over and we sat
and played like some uh and I'm just trying to
collect them like Marvel Fleer ninety four style I'm trying

(01:04:36):
to collect all of the Marvel in Magic the Gathering.
They did this it's a Spider Man set, and then
later next year they're doing a Marvel Superhero set, and
I'm gonna just try to do both those because it's
it's fun. I do really enjoy I enjoy Magic the Gathering,
but also just it being Marvel characters is super fun.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
By the way, I am impressed all the shit that
you seemingly will full forget. You remembered Fleer ninety four.

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
That's because every once in a while I look it
up on eBay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
You know what I found out.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Every once in a while, I looked that up on
eBay because it's like a It's like a thing I
did as a child. It was collecting these Marvel Fleer
ninety four cards, and I loved it. At some point
I lost them all. I think in a move or something,
I lost all my cards.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
I think we, I think you and I, because like
the Fleer cards that were in the Toy Biz Action
figure packages were Flear ninety four. You and I, as
I recall, do we do Flee ninety three? We were
doing ninety five? Oh maybe? And then they they moved
on to ninety six where they were doing like these

(01:05:47):
really like holographic foil cards and shit that got.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
You're totally right, You're totally right. It was just looked
and I just like had I just liked as ninety.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
But no, I have a ton of ninety four too,
because of those toy Bisz packages.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Okay, yeah, I uh, I think I think. I remember
when ninety six came out and I wanted to continue
doing it, and for some reason I just didn't. I
think it may have been more expensive or something, or
or just I was I was a poor kid and
couldn't afford it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
But uh, they did go up because they were doing
a lot of special foil shit like on the special
powers U huh, like Bishop shooting is like whatever is
their kinetic blast or whatever the hell it was. They
like went crazy with it and made it like super
nice and like did some like kind of foil shit
on it. Like yeah, and they had they were moving

(01:06:41):
away from what from what I could tell, they were
moving away from, uh like the Joe Justco type fantasy paintings,
and I felt like the artwork was inferior for ninety six,
so I fell off of them.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
I remember feeling that way too. I remember feeling like
I didn't like I just didn't like the art as much.
But yeah, no, looking back at these packs, man, crazy, Yeah,
I loved it though. I love that love that game
or not game, I love, I love that set. And
so I just I talked about on the MCU cast
and then so so I decided, instead of getting back
into Magic the Gathering, which would be tempting because I

(01:07:19):
don't need to spend that much time on it, I'm
just gonna do the Marvel sets when they come out,
and they're doing a Star Trek set next year, So
I'm gonna do the Marvel sets and then the Star
Trek set, And when I do it, I'm gonna try
to play a little bit with my friends and maybe
go to a pre release at a at a card
shop or something, and then I'm going to just try
to collect the set kind of like feel get that

(01:07:40):
old feeling of the Fleer ninety five, like collect the
whole set, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Yeah, man, I now I kind of want to. Like
I'm seeing some of these like single cards you choose,
and I'm like, oh, I know, I need a few
buck fifty A. Yeah, I've got I've got mine in
a binder downstairs. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:08:07):
I just found a booster box, like a full box
of unopened booster packs on eBay five hundred and fifteen dollars.
It's crazy, crazy, But if I had all the money
in the world, I'd probably do it because I would
enjoy opening them and trying to rebuild my set again.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
You know, yeah, man, you know, dude, I wouldn't mind.
I wouldn't mind filling in my collection for ninety four
to ninety five. I don't need all the ninety six.

Speaker 2 (01:08:37):
But even I didn't even tell you the part of
the thing that was crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
So I do that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
I check eBay every once in a while. I'm like,
you can sometimes you can find like a full set
for so much money, like somebody who's collected them already.
I thought about doing something like that because I collect
him as a kid, and I'm like, I already did
the collecting. I can just buy a full set now.
But I went out telling Kelly MANCATCHI about that, and

(01:09:04):
it turned out she was like, oh, I have that
whole set, And I was like, what turns out when
she was that same age like before we had ever
met her. Yeah, Like I met her in like eleventh grade.
So when she was like in seventh or eighth grade,
she was also collecting those Marvel Fleer cards and apparently
has the whole set in a binder at home.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
And I was like, what, that's crazy, it's just and
she's like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
She said she has the whole set except for two
or three cards, and she said she also still checks
eBay to this day. Me and her have been friends
for like twenty five years. We have never talked about this,
And I was like, how have we never How are
we both checking eBay for the same obscure Marvel set
of cards for twenty five years? And like, you know,

(01:09:52):
you have them all and I didn't even know this.
How did we not ever talk about this?

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Yeah, that's funny. That's crazy. That's funny. I feel like,
aside from Star Trek, those ninety five Fleer Ultra x
Men cards were like a pretty serious foundation for our friendship.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean you know, we had already
been friends. Those were like sixth grade or something, I
mean something like that. It was the year I moved
away from Montgomery, like I it was in Pratvel. So
it was the thing that we still like talked about
and collected and when we hung out at church, or
probably even after we stopped going to that church, like, uh,

(01:10:28):
it was the thing that we kept.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Doing, you know. Yeah, but we were already friends for
like four or five years at that point, I mean
at yeah, and at that we were still watching the
Star Trek at this point as well. For sure DS
nine went until what was it ninety eight? We had
already lost Voyager to you thought that it was like
two thousand and one. No, no, Voyager ended in two

(01:10:52):
thousand and one. Okay, oh, maybe that's what I'm thinking of.
I just remember remember missing episodes of the uh, like
I think I remember, I remember being in high school,
late high school.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
I thought it was my senior year. It might have
been my junior year. I remember missing episodes of D
Space nine, uh, And and maybe I got some you
to tape them for me, or I tried to tape them.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
I don't know, as because yeah, as I recall you,
you did have some like school functions like prom or
some shit, and I would tape them and make sure
you got them at church or something or yeah, I
guess it was at that point. I don't know, I
can't remember when you went exactly you moved away, but

(01:11:40):
I moved away in sixth grade. I do remember us
on the phone almost every Saturday up in including the
final season of d S nine. Uh, and we watched
the I know, we watched the finale together on the phone. Okay, yeah,
you're right. It was ninety nine. It ended nine to nine.

(01:12:02):
I just remember.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
I remember being like high school functions and missing a
couple of episodes because of my high school functions. But
we had already lost Voyager to UPM, which wasn't playing anywhere, right,
and we lost it like season three and the season
three I think, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Well after Scorpion though, the week after Scorpion Part one,
part one we lost. That was season three, right, I
think so? Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
It was end of a season, I remember, because we
waited a whole summer or whatever, and the next season
came back and they just it didn't come back for us.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
Well, we didn't have that channel. We were also very
worried because the next week we were on the phone
and we you know, watched our DS nine rerun and
then another DS nine episode came on and we were like,
why is DS nine coming on? Where's Voyager? And it's

(01:12:57):
because it was like the next week they cut off
Voyager because UPN was gonna start playing it. Yeah, and
we hoped all summer that we could get UPN and
that didn't happen. It just never came to an area
that was weird. It did, but it came to like
across town. Like I started getting my aunt to tape me,
tape them for me, but like I couldn't get them,

(01:13:20):
Like she would like just tape them haphazardly and then
like not know where all the tapes were. And she'd
bring me tapes and I'm like I'd go home and
I'd be like, this doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
I don't know if we have any young listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Probably not. I can't imagine.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
I can't imagine like a gin, a gin alpha person
listening to this podcast. But uh I I find it
if you are a gen alpha person listen this podcast,
please let us know because I think you're you're fascinating human.
But I find it like so weird to think about
how hard it was to watch the thing we liked. Yeah,

(01:14:04):
how freaking hard. And I mean these days it can
get hard because it's like on the wrong streaming service
and you got to pay extra money or whatever. But
it's all available to every Everything is available to everyone,
you know. Yeah, all right, well tell anyway, but it's
now we're gonna get off a while ago.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
I do. Sorry, good, what are you saying? I will
tell you this. I when in college I was taping
Enterprise for you. Yeah, I was. I was making you
tapes with covers that were just full of Enterprise episodes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
I think you only did that a few times. It
was like three or four of them, because I never
actually watched it until a DVD set was out. I
watched the first few because I think you tape for me,
like the maybe the first half of the first season
or something like that, and I remember watching them and
I really appreciated them. But then like I fell off, yeah,
or you weren't taping them for me or whatever anymore,
and like I remember actually finally watching the show. I

(01:14:56):
think I watched it in one go, like season one
through three, in like one like on DVD. Yeah, I
think I think once they were already out on DVD.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
Yeah, you you told me we were. I remember it
was in the in the BCM, in the in one
of the back rooms and you were like, I handed
you a new tape and you were like, man, I
really appreciate it, but I just I'm so far behind.
Just don't worry about it anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Oh yeah, I'm sure my guilt got the better of me, Like, don't,
don't you're doing You're being so nice and making me
these special tapes, and I'm like not having time to
watch them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
I mean, it wasn't that big of a deal. I
you know, I dive a stuff I enjoyed.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Doing, Yeah, which is stuff stuff you still do today.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
It's stuff I still do today for myself, like making
DVD covers, my own DVD covers and uh that's really fun.
And uh, you know, making a little compilations of stuff
that I can't you can't find on Blu ray DVD. Yeah,
you know, you track them down on YouTube or something.
So I enjoyed doing that kind of stuff anyway. So yeah,

(01:15:57):
well thank you for that back in the day. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
Man, all right, Well I'm gonna get off of here.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
It's great chat with you, Dave. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
We will be back, probably not next week, probably in
a few weeks when there's some news and probably some
updated trailer for Academy or something right, and we'll be back.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Guys, Joel Untrue, Live, long, and prosper.

Speaker 3 (01:16:21):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or malage Ust.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
TV for his web videos.

Speaker 3 (01:16:34):
If you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check
out the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music

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