September 24, 2025 • 57 mins
Kirk brings the crew to a spot he visited before, but he expected paradise -- not a private little war! This is an uneven-but-fun episode to talk about, maman! We got G̶u̶m̶a̶t̶o̶, er, Mugato bites, a witch with a small, deadly box, wigs, Lisa Frank stickers on foreheads and a Vietnam redux, maman! It's a wild one!
Episode Reviewed:
Star Trek 2x16 - "A Private Little War"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Effie Ophelders
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues young Effie's first watch of Star Trek in production order. Guiding her on this journey: Dave, a stalwart fan of almost four decades who rewatches along with her, provides trivia, insights and the occasional excitement-stoking minor spoiler.
Join Us:
Site: http://startrekucast.com
Apple: http://bit.ly/StuCast
Spotify: http://bit.ly/StarTrekUCast
Spreaker: http://bit.ly/StuCastSpreaker
David C. Roberson's Newsletter: https://davidcroberson.substack.com/
Episode Reviewed:
Star Trek 2x16 - "A Private Little War"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Effie Ophelders
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues young Effie's first watch of Star Trek in production order. Guiding her on this journey: Dave, a stalwart fan of almost four decades who rewatches along with her, provides trivia, insights and the occasional excitement-stoking minor spoiler.
Join Us:
Site: http://startrekucast.com
Apple: http://bit.ly/StuCast
Spotify: http://bit.ly/StarTrekUCast
Spreaker: http://bit.ly/StuCastSpreaker
David C. Roberson's Newsletter: https://davidcroberson.substack.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, Kirk brings the
Fellows to a paradise he's visited before, but what he
finds ain't no Eden is a private little war. We're
talking Star Trek two sixteen, a private little war. Right
after these howls and snarls from our mystery Mugato's welcome
(00:24):
into Star Trek Universe's classic rewatch First Watch. I am
David c Robertson. He who hath rewatched?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am I Phil Pewler. She who hath watched first
first watched? Done the thing?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Ah hah ah, yes, yes, so I know, we just
like I just released the last episode we did, I
think last week. But it has been a really long time.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah for real, I haven't seen each other in a bit.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh yeah, well you know you started Dayton and shit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
How dare it's it's no, it's it's it's it's summertime.
I don't know stuff happened. And yeah we had some
left in the bank, so right, we weren't, you know,
getting too far ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I guess sure. It's you know, I feel bad when
I have some banked and then like new star Treks
are coming out and I'm like, well, I don't know,
like I feel so bad about not putting it out.
But then again, but look, by the time you hear this,
dear sweet simple listener, No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
How we do it here on Star Trek Universe insult
the listener first and then try and get them back.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You know. You know what it actually reminded me of
when I started to do it was that fat Duck
on the old Daffy Duck cartoon who's like kind, gentle
good to his mother, Daffy Duck. He's like, it's like
there's like a it's like a boxing match wheen him
and Elmer Fudd, and he's like he introduces Elmer like
(02:02):
he's a piece of ship, and everyone's booming him and
throwing stuff, and he's like, badgine this corner the kind
you know, And it's just Daffy like sitting over there,
humbly like smiling like hmm no. But yeah, by the
time the listeners hear this, uh, I think I'm going
to hold this off until Strange New Worlds is over
(02:23):
in at this point three weeks, because we're coming out
every week with Strange New Worlds right now.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
We've actually also been talking about, uh, you know, the
the new Paramount people coming in, David Ellison, who we've
had concerns about because he's a billionaire and he billionaires
bought a bunch of Paramount with his family's money, and
he's been seeing he's been seen with Trump. We don't
know what capacity exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I'm guessing to say, thanks for the extra billions he's
gonna in tax cuts.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
But where he comes from is sky Dance, and he
was an executive producer on the last two Star Trek films.
He's a huge Star Trek fan, so says Simon peg.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So says Simon peg fair enough.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I tend to believe Simon Peg on such matters.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And I have no idea how Simon Pegg is involved
in any of Trek. By the way, really, I try
to stay out of this shit. Man. I'm sayah, but
you've seen marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, but you've seen the first two of the Abrams films.
He was Scotty, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, But I've seen that years ago, probably before I
realized who Simon Pegu was, because that's before I watched
the Cornado trilogy or anything. So that is that is
good to know, good to remember.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yes, he is Scotty and he wrote the third film,
Star Trek Beyond, which is the best one.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Dope.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Fuck yeah, he's been trying to get a fourth movie.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
He's just the one I haven't seen because by then
we'd started sort of started the show. I think, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
That was twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
They never mind, we haven't started the show so much
as I had it on it on this on my list,
and then we started the show, and then I was like, no,
I can't fucking watch the third one. I mean you can,
I can, I can, but I will remember the first
two clearly.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right. But here's the other exciting thing is they just
he David Ellison just hired. I can't remember his name now,
but I just talked about in the last episode, so
regular listeners, uh oh not in the last episode, but
it'll be will shout out Chris Parnell. Chris Parnell.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
He is a guy who for Apple TV developed for
All Humanity or whatever that space show is for all mankind,
for all mankind. That's it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I have actually seen that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah. Yeah, and he's a huge star. Trek Nerd a
huge comic book nerd so and he's put him in
charge of Paramount Plus programming, so they are looking to
expand their Star Trek lineup drastically. So it is a
very exciting time to be catching up.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Mm hmmm, especially at all right, which means it'll be
twenty fifty by the time I end up in Paramount
plus ratory.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
You know what, we can go faster. We can go fast.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That's true. That's true. I ain't got shit to do.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So anyway, we should probably talk about this episode.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
That's a good idea, it is.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And I was just looking at the at the on
our watch list, and we are like a month. If
we did one or did two episodes for three weeks
and then three episodes on the fourth week, we would
be through the second season in a month.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah. Time flies. It's like we're getting close. It's not
that long a season anyway.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, we're getting up there. AnyWho. The Memory Alpha
synopsis on this episode, on a planet with a primitive civilization,
the Enterprise discovers that the Klingons are providing a stone
age society with increasingly advanced weaponry.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Oh spoilers, yes, that is that is what we find out.
And and then we get a whole diatribe about how
to solve that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
How did you feel, I I.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's it was interesting and at the same time it
was I think it was good because I was having
a lot of trouble agreeing because it is it is
one of those things where it's like, oh, we're really
stuck in the Cold War era, Like the only solution
is like and equalizing these these as as too great
(06:39):
powers imbalance because otherwise they'll one will destroy the other,
which is kind of feeding into the arms race, which
feels weird for you know where the Cold War actually
ended up, and we're still trying to get rid of
the goddamn atomic weapons. So that's gonna take forever until
(06:59):
someone uses I guess at this point we can we
can destroy this planet a couple of times over sure.
But it was very very clear in that that parallel
let's say, it was very explicit in getting the history
tied in there, which is fun because it wasn't that
(07:20):
much history at the time of production, but it is now.
So that's that that was that was interesting, But it's
at the same time it is it is really it
is a pickle, like they're in there in a situation
that is very hard to solve necessarily, But at the
same time, like I like the pacifist species in this show,
(07:45):
like why do we need to wreck this? And there's
there's a there was so much it's it's well, we'll
get there. But this is this is one I really
I liked. I like, yeah, this was good. Yeah it is.
It was. It at least posed an interesting matter whether
or not I completely liked every twist and turn, but
(08:09):
that's me, you know, thinking differently about something, but at
least I'm thinking about it. So that's that's a good
thing generally, where I'm like, oh, I it doesn't say
much about quality, whether or not I want things to
go a certain way. No fuck it, they went this way,
and now I have feelings about that, and that's good.
(08:29):
Yeah that's what we're here for.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So yeah, I really wish I could see an alternate
reality where Gene Coon had been in charge of this episode.
I get that because this one was very clearly rewritten
by roden Berry.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Gene Coon was very like anti war, and roden Berry
is kind of like he's really pushing the Vietnam thing here,
like yay, Vietnam. Kirk chooses Vietnam. Now I do like
that McCoy was so against it. Yeah, that was the
important bit, Like Kirk didn't have a better solution, and
neither did McCoy in this particular instance. And I think
(09:12):
one of the big failings of the episode is it's
kind of a failing and it's also kind of like
I just wish we had gone back to it at
some point and the extra you know, the extended universe
stuff they do, but you know, I hate that it's
Kirk being like, yeah, okay, arm them, and then the
enterprise just flies away, like no, I need to see
(09:34):
the consequences of this. I know the consequences of this,
but you know what I mean, Like, it's not gonna
go well, no, you know that. But you know, if
they do, if they do really do anything with the Klingons,
they're plunging the whole fucking quadrant into war. I don't
know what to do. I don't know the solution either, exactly.
(09:58):
But you know, sometimes episodes are just there for thinking
you don't need the solution.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No exactly. It is the the whole thing where they
end up being very tired. I felt that too, But
it is because they wrote themselves into that corner where
it's like there is no good outcome. There's no great
fucking solution, there's just okay. So we can't meddle with them.
We can we can only arm them. It's it's it
(10:26):
goes a bit far to like murder the village people.
There's no taking their stuff because kling ms will just
come back. You know, there's there's not that much you
can do.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well, he said that murder the village people. Now I
just got murder people.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Is playing? Have Trump do a little dance in the corner.
We know he loves the song. And then you know,
then you have one peaceful people still existing peacefully and
by by virtue of a non pacifistic people coming in
(11:05):
and rescuing them from the other fuckers. This is how
you keep peace and with lots of violence. Have I
watched the first episode of peace Maker? Probably?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Oh yes, yes, yes, me too. Different.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
You know, sometimes you have to kill the village apparently.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, sometimes it would.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Have been a solution. I'm just it's not a great one. Yeah,
have like phasers, you can murder the shit out of
all of them.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So this is one of those is an interesting episode
in terms of society because like when they filmed it,
only about fifteen to twenty percent of people in the
American public was opposed to the war effort in Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
By January of nineteen sixty eight, just a few weeks
before this episode aired, about twenty eight percent of the
American public labeled themselves as doves, which is, you know,
the people who were anti war. But like three days
before this episode aired, the first satellite pictures from the
(12:14):
tet offensive came through and we saw the destruction that
was going on. And by April of nineteen sixty eight,
the Doves outnumbered the Hawks quote unquote hawks forty two
to forty one percent. So it was like Star Trek
came out, like this episode of Star Trek came out
like three days after the world turned against the Vietnam War,
(12:39):
like ye, and so then it's just like oh my god,
and people you know today would not understand this. So
I'm sure people back then were like, oh, well, they
they're trying to they're trying to make that see, like
trying to get us on board of the Vietnam war again.
Look at this.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, because it is very much. The oh we're
we're doing proxy war ship. That's the whole idea where
the Klingons just come in and be like, ah, this
seems fun to us. Just fuck around with this civilization
for a bit. One day you'll be part of us
if you, you know, take out all of the other
people on your planet.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
But yeah, to say that, it's then the right solution
to enter that proxy war as the opposite global power,
namely the Federation, and and insert yourself into this conflict
by arming the other side. Yeah, that's a very cia
thing to do. And in this case, Num is right there. Yeah,
(13:42):
that must have been a poorly time Jesus Christ. Three days,
three days.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, I mean, of course, it's not like that was
just when they had it scheduled, like they shot it
months and months and months before. They had no idea.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
They that was just yeah, yeahs terrible timing. But you
can't go back, like if you swap him around next week,
that doesn't help. It'll just be further away from the
three day things.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So but importantly, I do think it was interesting. I
do think it was important that Kirk. It wasn't the
thing that Kirk wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, he is somber about it all the way through.
At the same time, if you translate that to reality,
that would be oh as the US. I am so
saddened by the white men's burden to have to, you know,
go over there and fix Vietnam, like you could also
just like in real life, it's a little more complicated
(14:40):
because the Kleons are just fucking assholes and communism is
actually not that bad, but don't tell the Americans, you.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Know, it's funny that, like.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Not that Vietnam was specifically the best outcome for any
sort of rush influence.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
But right, you know, corruption from people will fuck up
any good idea.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it helps to not have
corrupt assholes in charge.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Like right, so let's look at God. There's a lot
of weird unevenness about this episode, and I don't know
exactly what I really want to attack here, like it is.
I love that they even had the bit on the
(15:33):
bridge where Kirk is like, no, they wouldn't have been
able to create these weapons at this point, and then
everyone on the bridge is like, yeah, but we've seen
different stages of development. It doesn't have to develop like Earth.
Maybe it's this, maybe it's this, maybe it's maybe they skipped.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Ahead a bit, but also it's exactly like Earth, so
that's kind of the weird thing.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And he was like, I did not invite debate, and
then immediately it's like, sorry, I'm in worried about Spock.
I'm worried about my friend Tyree and all this. We
get it, dude, you're worried about it. I kind of
hate that Kirk.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Is right, Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But he kind of has to be for this specific
episode to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So yeah, because if you don't have the oh it's
the glingon's arming them, right, you don't risk the entire
Federation going to war, which means you could have just
taken away the fucking weapons and right and you know,
set them back a couple of centuries.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Mm hmm. But I am. I am glad. I guess
that they hung the lantern. Yeah, because the whole like
I would have been mad and been like, why do
they have to follow Earth's development? You know they don't.
And when I was glad to hear other people, the
other crew members go, they don't have to. We've seen
a lot of shit. I have heard over the years,
(16:49):
I've heard several arguments about how this is once again,
you know, the white man romanticizing a native culture as
being you know, old fashioned, and the garden of Eden,
it's a simpler time, like ah, and sort of like
having sort of a condescending attitude. I personally do not
(17:12):
feel that way about this episode because it was of
the way that it was introduced as Kirk is returning
to this place. He was a young lieutenant, he made
friends here.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
He lived here.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
It was a non violent culture he cared about.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think it's not so much condescension and al it's
a simpler time. I think it's truly a form of
admiration that I that comes across to me in that, oh,
they they're holding on to their pacifism and we couldn't.
We had to go through three World Wars at least
and get back to some semblance of balance. And but yeah,
(17:52):
there is a but I think it's also just us
making that that leap to Okay, so this is a
native culture, but we're not just stumbling upon it. It
is indeed like oh no, he's been here, he's been
among them for and and then had to leave again.
If anything, but like, I'm not sure I would go
(18:15):
full orientalism on the the the white people living in
a camp in an intense and ship. It's like, if anything,
that the representation of women in this episode woman Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
I don't doubt that. Like that was weird. That was she.
(18:38):
Her character was all over the place. That was just
you you couldn't see her coming, just swinging. Oh. But
because because she's she's at the same time, she's she's
like this witch who has enchanted his old friend and
it's a weird fucking wife husband relationship, and she's trying
(18:58):
to get him into war, and and Kirk is trying
to somewhat talk sense into him. But also then her
final she she turns out to be the catalyst her
death to be avenged, and then that escalates the conflict,
even though by that point she has clearly cheated on
(19:21):
what's his face with Kirk because he has a cool
machine gun in the uh, like Jesus, it's it's, it's
it's she is. She's not very likable, let's do it
that way. But also like he still deeply cares. Yeah,
even though he's no longer getting whatever herbs she was
(19:44):
rubbing on his skin.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Like I mean, yeah, she I don't know what all
that's about. Like I hate that part of the show,
of this episode one that they don't explain what the
deal is with her little magic herbs and her spell
that she cast too, like like Tyrene, man, how are
you gonna be okay with it? Because he was like
(20:06):
you have to spell on me? He's happy about it,
Just still.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Be aware of it, like how does this work? But
like the worst thing is it would have worked without that.
She could have just had the herbs to cure Kirk
then have the tradition of like you can't refuse me now,
because that's that's you owe me your life. Basically that
would have worked you at every turn. It's like you
(20:33):
could have just been actually in love but disagreeing on
the war effort. You could have just been a woman
with an opinion instead of a woman with a curse.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Like what Yeah, they treat her like she is like
she saves his life, not out of goodness, not out
of any kind of altruistic reason. She does it to
get something. She gets it to find out information and
to own Kirk. She does a weird fucking like orgasmic
(21:03):
thing to cure him that was completely blood letting.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Uh huh that I mean, that's that's just cool. But
like even if that's but the over fair enough.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, And it's the sixties, so we like we know
exactly what they are talking about when they say anything
about a witch, like, okay, fucking all right, it's just satanic. Yeah, like, oh,
you're a bad guy because witch.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, And yeah, of course they.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Don't even try to hide it. But also I can't,
I couldn't help but notice, like they chose a woman
of dark skin.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, but she's also the whole fact that it is
that they they are so insistent on continually pointing out
that she is a canoe too or whatever. Yeah, is
very like oh as if she's a different species or
a different uh group in this like like there is
(22:04):
just a bunch of them living outside of the village people,
and I'm gonna keep calling them the village people and
the hill people or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And every time they said the hill people, I thought
of that Mike Myers sketch. He's like, you of the
hill people, come and join us, won't you? And the
other chieftains are discussing how to walk with a woman
and of course you have like Lovetz's chieftain, who's likely
I've had many very brisk walks with myself. It's brilliant, delightful. Yeah.
(22:50):
So but anyway, of course, the only way to handle
a woman like that who's seeking power and deceiving men.
By the way, it's Larry is that Like Tyree didn't
even like, not even mad at Kirk. It was just like,
I know that is the way of the woman she has,
she has the spells. I understand, friend Kirk. I understand,
(23:11):
friend Kirk. I almost killed you. But then I was like, nah.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I'm a peaceful motherfucker until she gets killed by other
motherfuckers that I'm not friends with, and now I want
to shoot them. Right, She's like I almost she was
pretty good at Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Like, no, this bitch be trifling.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
No, But at that point I had like, Okay, this
marriage has some some fucked up issues now, but like,
he'll he'll he'll maybe he'll break the curse from the
witch and then uh, you know, but at least I
had hope still that he would stick to his pacifistic
he send his for a minute. Yeah, that's that's the
(23:49):
thing where I'm like god damn it. Yeah, but that's
that's that's an emotional response, I guess. So I first
I would have been chewed out by Spock, but also
it's kind of the point of of fiction.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So yeah, well, I mean he was shot, so he
couldn't be in this episode to be on that from
to time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, he had to fight himself out of it.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, which is a weird bit of ron berry Ism,
Like you have him being Goa to be like doctor
and Benga be like whatever he does, do it like okay,
well this is getting into some shit.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah. Yeah, you could have just told her by the
way to like, oh, he's probably gonna ask you to
like pull him out of that. Just hit him. I
want you to hit him, Yeah, don't worry about it.
Like he could have prepared her a little better than
be like anything he.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Ees whenever he asks, you'd be a good little girl exactly,
Like that could be.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Like I need you to suck my falcon dick and
hit me in the face. She doesn't fucking know, Like,
I mean, it would be slightly illogical perhaps to assault
someone that way, but you don't know, we don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
The whole thing is fucking weird and then like my.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Organs regrow faster if I turned my mental energy inside,
Like that is a very it is a very intellect
over everything else kind of approach to They're like, oh, no,
mind over body, and it is that idea is flawed
in some ways. It's not how you typically heal physically anyway.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, I mean I I kind of connect it. I
will admit that I've always really liked that aspect of Spock,
and it's a thing that I.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Like it as an idea for the Vulcans.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, right, it's a thing that I have been sad
that they have somewhat lost in more modern iterations where
they are much less inclined to push into what even
had been referred to in the original series and the
movies as Vulcan mysticism. Right, there's something about him, there's
(26:00):
something about those that group that they could do certain things,
and I liked having that as a mystery. And then
I mean, what are you gonna do? You gotta you
gotta explore story somewhere.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So, yeah, it's a weird. It's a weird Spock episode,
or there's a reason for Spock to be out of
commission I would have loved to have seen that that
version of the episode where Spock is on neur All
talking to talking to Kirk through all this ship.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, yeah, not just have McCoy be there, but also
him and like have the the devil on shoulder.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Thing, you know, the way McCoy argues ship you just
don't want to you don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
The problem where like, I agree with this fucker, but
also damn it, I don't want to tell him that.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And also if like if Spock had had the the
the say pacifistic view, who would have had a better idea,
a better plan. McCoy will come in emotionally be mad
at you for trying to solve it, and then have
no alternative, and then you're like, oh, I guess this
option has no recourse. There's no real way of pursuing
(27:17):
that ideal, So I guess fuck that that principle, which
is a very easy way to get rid of the
option of Well, okay, but could could McCoy have had a.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Point to consider that?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, he absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Had a point, and Kirk knew it, but it was
also at the same time he was like, what's your solution?
Because I don't have it. Yeah, I don't know, Like.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Technically, as a federation, they have a fucking solution, and
it is the prime directive. It is sorry for your friends,
but you can't help them that way. Apparently one of
the like one group out of this species is gonna
murder the other one. But you do have to deal
with the cling On threat because they're interfering, they're breaking
(28:02):
the treaty. You don't want to throw everyone into war,
but you do want to keep them the fuck away
from there, because otherwise you're going to have a Klingon
governor ship government, government, I guess, a province, a province whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Of Krell said that he was going to make up
Pella kling On governor or some ship.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, but I I mean the the what them would
you call the part of the Klingon Empire that the
planet now becomes a governor governs what a world? That's
what I mean? Yeah, exactly, that's that. That was a
word I was trying to look for. Neural is the
name fair enough? We'll stick to that.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, it wasn't in the episode. It was only in
the script. Yeap, oh yeah, yeah, the script. Yeah, so yeah,
I think I started to say it earlier. But yeah,
just I don't like the there was no I didn't
see any reason for on top of everything, you know,
making Nana like the worst person in the world, which fine,
(29:03):
A woman can be the worst person in the world,
that's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So yeah, I mean only one can be the worst.
I guess only one woman can be the worst person
in the world, right, but you know, the worst woman.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
At least that don't mean that she needs to get
like fucking sexually assaulted.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
No, no, not necessarily. Would would have been fine without that.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
That was a weird little bit, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, Yeah, that was distressing in a way where it's
it's very much framed as an action sequence, like, oh,
there's something happening. They're trying to rape her, Like what
the fuck? What am I looking at? There's no one,
there's no real fight, there's just continued struggle. That's pretty
(29:48):
hard to watch. Yeah, it's it's very clearly like it's
not that explicitly sexual, but it's very clearly implied that
that would be what the village people are. Of course
the village people, but what's sexually assaulted woman? Yeah, secretly
straight we know this.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I think I'm more or less annoyed that it's there
because I know me and I know I'm gonna have
to defend it, like in the same way I defended
it on that when Star Wars did it recently and
I don't even remember what it was on and or something.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I have no clue.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You know, there are lots of people who are like,
I'm just mad that this is in my Star Trek,
you know, and I'm like, yes, fuck, but one you
know that that's what's gonna happen. Yeah, you know, it's
just it is.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
I have zero problem with the realism of it. It's
just you could have depicted that way simpler, way shorter,
and less viscerally. I don't necessarily need to see that
as a who tintillating thing. Like maybe in the late
sixties that was okay, but by now you wouldn't shoot
it like this right now there would be gruesome.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
There was an implication one of the quotes though earlier,
that I think it it calls back to subtly, well
not that subtly, but when Pella Appella tells Krill, I
felt my people would grow tired of killing, but you
were right. They see that it is easier than trading
and it has pleasures.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Was like, what kind of pl oh.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Oh, I didn't. I didn't link that immediately because I
took that sincerely from a klingon as the fun of hunting,
like it has pleasures. I like, I see what you mean.
When I heard it at first, I was just like, oh,
it's pretty fun to just kill them and take their stuff. Like.
I took that purely as mankind, not really mankind, but
(31:46):
like people being shitty and inclined towards violence, and not
necessarily sexual violence. Person I took that as the joy
of the hunt of murder. I don't know, psychopaths.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Uh yeah, apparently. But without that, there's a way less
meaning behind this quote from her touched me again and
this small box will kill you.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
God damn it. Out of context. Yeah, yeah, she's.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Talking about a phaser. Oh my god, oh.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Box, the metal box. Never mind, never mind, guys. But yeah,
then they they did touch her again.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And again, I guess, and they did.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
She murdered them. Did she just not understand the fucking
small box?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah? It kept showing like close ups of her fingers,
and then like, I guess she doesn't understand how to
use it.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I guess, But she could have just figured that out
before she fucking stole it. Yeah, hit Kirk with rock,
I guess. Yeah, she tried it on a tree before
walking up to the village people. Like the village people,
I keep hearing it, and it's She.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Was like, well, if I try it it out, it's
just gonna heat that rock, that's all it's gonna do,
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, which would have been good to know how the
fucking thing works. She can heat a rock, you can
heat a man's skull.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
That's right. Yeah, No, I don't know. There were lots
of wonkiness too. There was lots of wonkiness to this episode.
I feel like, yeah, lots of weird little choices they made.
Nana was uh one of the weirdest choices, And you know,
it could have been like, I mean, I get I
get it, Okay, I get it. You're making a show.
(33:38):
You're like, what's gonna make a man go against everything
he believes in a woman you're in the sixties, you
believe that shit to your core.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And like it makes sense if it were actually not
just some evil witch woman, but like if he really
fucking loved her and she hadn't cheated on him truly,
but just I don't know, knocked his friend out. I
guess like if that were a better marriage, you would
have been more inclined to believe he would just throw
(34:09):
away civilization and go on a murderer's round.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I feel like it would have been such a more
interesting take if Nana had not been some kind of
weird witch thing creature and just been Yeah, if she
had had even if she didn't even have to fucking
villainize her, it would have been more interesting if she
was just like, had a difference of opinion from Tyree
and was just like, Dude, they're wiping us out. I
(34:33):
think we probably need to listen to your buddy.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
We should probably fight back. And that was before Buddy
shows up and is hesitant to give them any weapons
until he finds out that the other side is indeed
being armed by an outside force instead of naturally evolving
to that point. Yeah, I mean, that's the only way
he can justify helping them and actually wrecked the find
(35:00):
the imbalance by going, Okay, this is the knowledge they
were given and you lack now, which I think is
admirable that he would like if it had just been
the village people going a bit faster and like finding
this shut out for themselves. I feel like Kirk would
(35:21):
have sacrificed his friends. It suggests that Kirk would have
been okay, So I can't interfere because this is just
what happens to the civilization, which is far more interesting.
So that's why you need the Klingons there. But I
do agree that having her be a witch serves no purpose.
You could have just had her heel Kirk somehow, some way,
(35:42):
and that be the extent of her powers. Quote unquote, Yeah,
there's there's sometimes the mysticism is just a bit much.
It is very much the Yeah, I don't know, but
that that and that ties in with the weird healing
with the Vulcan too, where that part does feel a
little weird, where it's doctor Amenga, who is who has
(36:06):
spent time with Vulcans, Like that feels like not entirely
incidental casting of a black man, especially given the name.
I don't know, it feels very oh he spent time
in Africa, you know, like that that vibe. But I'm
getting a bit off track, like on the on the
(36:26):
side of of of Nona it's It's just it would
have worked better if it was an emotional response rather
than is he still under the influence of her leaves?
Or is she or or? Or is she is that gone?
And is he? Did he genuinely care? Like there is
that whole? Oh that's give an air of mystery around
her being this kind of woman who gives men power
(36:51):
and helps him be ambitious, because it can't just be
the men being ambitious. He was fine and content, like
he's wise enough to be like, oh, we're fine living
in these tents and we don't have to murder people.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I don't know for certain, I suspect Nona and her
the presentation of her character is a rodden berryism. Yeah,
Like I don't. I need to look back at the
original writer, the original script if I could find it,
you know, yeah, but you know Rodenberry Like, okay, so
(37:28):
we can get into some some trivia here.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Oh yeah, let's go production stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So in don Ingall's original story outline, the Klingon antagonist
was core from the episode Errand of Mercy.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Oh right, the same guy?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, sure, may yeah. In a May twenty sixth, nineteen
sixty seven memo, Bob Justman criticized this point, writing, here
we are in the outer reaches of our galaxy, and
who should Captain Kirk run into but good old Core,
an adversary that he has encountered before, and with whom
he has been an able to get very far. Just
think of it, billions of stars and millions of class
(38:04):
M type planets. And who should he run into but
a fella he has had trouble with before. No wonder
Core doesn't recognize him at first. The coincidence is so
astounding that he must feel certain that it couldn't possibly
have happened fair enough, damn dig intoude.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
It's a long way to say, dude, why would it
be the same guy? Yeah, doesn't add anything, and it's unlikely,
but yeah, yeah, it's a good point. You have to,
you know, really ham it up in your writing back
in the sixties to make a point internal memos.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So in don Ingles's second draft, the character's name was
changed to Krell and Uh. The original writer don Ingles
put the pseudonym jud Crusis on it. After Gene rod
Berry rewrote it. Ingle's original contained many more overt Vietnam
analogies than what finally appeared according to Alan Asherman's The
Star Trek Compendium, script referred to Appella as a ho
(39:03):
Chi Minh type and the tribesmen wearing Mongolian clothes. Though
friends with roden Berry since their days is l A
p D Officers, Ingles did not like the changes, and
the pseudonym was his wordplay on Jesus crucified Jesus christ
Man like ego much.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It's it's a bit on the nose, motherfucker. Like yeah,
as much as I got that from cruises, I was like,
this is a this is a crucifixion thing, right, but.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, like he's sacrificing himself, dude, Like okay. So as
much as I'm sitting here going like okay, shit was rewritten, Roddenberry.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
PRIs myself for the sins of ry, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Like it's funny, Like it's so weird because you would,
I would bet you anything like roden Berry would totally
look look at that script and just be like, I
don't like this ho Chi Minh ship. That's too much anyway,
So I'm adding this sexy gypsy woman, Yeah, who's got
(40:00):
a cast a spell on the captain. Oh god, It's
like wait, what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (40:10):
That's great?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Did you see what the guy wrote? He it's bullshit,
it's crazy anyway.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's insanity. But now let me add some.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
The original script called the creature a gumato with a G,
but DeForest Kelly kept saying it wrong, so it was changed.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
That's amazing. The credits it was right. Yeah, we just
flip the consonants and that's what they stuck with.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Fair enough. The credits still retained the original name. Stock
footage of the white rabbit's footprints from shortly if we're
used for the mugato prints you noticed, like the big
bunny rabbit feet.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I didn't think about it much. I completely skipped over
with that. But also you mentioned that the neural name
isn't set, but at the same time, I feel I
felt like it was. So maybe that's a re reworked
thing in the remastering.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
But yeah, I mean I remember that name.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
From like the first bit of the casaslog or something.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I did say in the last episode we did.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah no, I like no, but I feel like watching it,
I heard it. I feel like at some point, uh
Kirk says neural, but I in the voice over, I
don't know why I would think that maybe maybe it's
just some Mandela effect thing that now that I see it,
I'm inserting it in there.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
But well, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Mean it was in the subtitles or something. Maybe it
was like one.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Of those The trivia just says that although the script
specifies that the planet is named Neural, the name is
never mentioned in the episode itself. And I have read
all this shit before, and I I just know that's
the fucking name of the planet, man, Like, So I
don't know. Of course, I didn't pay attention enough to
you know, I get that. Yeah, I'm like, I couldn't
tell you I have you had you know me, I
(41:59):
have an notorious bad memory. I do, like, especially on
like weird stuff like that. I'm just like, oh God,
like I don't know, like I'm mixing Matt shit. Man,
I don't know. I think that's all we've got on
this episode, though, Yeah, do you have anything?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I don't think so, I do, like the the the
little trivia thing of like this is the only episode
in the season to not have a happy ending music. No, yeah,
fitting that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You know, I didn't tell you that because I didn't
tell you that because I felt like that was a
spoiler for the rest of the season.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Oh oh okay, yeah, now that you mention it, Oh,
the rest is happy. No, that's that's I get why.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
But even even up to now, like it felt fitting
like it closed on a note that was very much like,
I'm not happy about this. Nobody's real happy with the outcome,
And I like that totally. I think it's that core
of an idea in this episode that I really like
and connect to. I'm like frustrated by to to an extent,
(43:03):
and that's really the strength of it. And then there's
a whole bunch of ye yeah, rotten berry slime on
top of it, where you're like, I could have done
without that, yeah, and that, but you know what you're
gonna do. It's it's it's still at least one of
the more interesting ones, because at least it tends to
tackle an ethical question and deal with a wrestle with
(43:24):
that that what do we do in this situation and
sort of explore those non existent boundaries of the brand directive,
because it is that that makes it it interesting and
and tragic and makes the bond between Kirk and what's
(43:45):
his face? Tyree? Thank you. I was just like, the
double e is somewhere two. But yeah, that that what
that's what makes it count. And then there's a bunch
of ship around it where you're like, oh, I didn't
this feels weird, but.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Okay, yeah, by the way, I almost when you were like, oh,
keep keep calling them hill people and uh and village
people like just blonde wigs versus black wigs, would like,
is that about?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Uh. Even though the hill people are apparently blonde, it's
a very Aryan race, but they have little dots on
their forehead, so it's, you know, part of the species.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Thing, right. They had some kind of weird stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, which also makes like because the village people, besides
not being blonde, didn't have that, so it was truly
like different species on that planet.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I would assume, Oh, I don't know, I don't know.
I thought they were just they might just be different
offshoots or offshoots or you know, different races.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Because it was sort of suggested like that. But at
the same time, like half of them looked like slightly
more alien in terms of costume department than the other half.
People in the hill village people just look like village people,
I'm yea god.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And then like the Hill people just have like Lisa
Frank stickers and on their forehead and big blood wigs
like be hive wigs.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah yeah, but Lisa frank Sticker is is apparently your feature.
That's a that's a species thing of like oh we're
we're we're glitterally on the forehead.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
In my in my head, Cannon, all of them are
bald because there's not a motherfucker on nerawl who is
that clearly who isn't clearly wearing a wig like black hair,
Nona totally wearing a wig. Half of her scenes, her
wig is like shifted to the side, and you could
(45:44):
tell she's just wearing like a big ass wig, like
Shatner's wearing a wig. Fucking everybody in this show is
wearing a wig.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Oh we Shatton wearing a wig in this one. I
didn't even.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Oh yeah, he's got too bad. He used to steal
two pays. Yeah, he used to steal two pays at
the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
That makes sense, But also like that that one looks better, Yeah,
like like it it suits him. They clearly invested more
in his two pay than whatever tyree.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Yeah, absolutely, that's why Shatner stole.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
The luscious locks were this doesn't make up picture on
memory Alpha. There is like the guy on the left
has a less obvious wig if it is a wig
on the right definitely has the Tyree treatment of just
harsh harsh shadow line.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
But when they start moving around and Joscelyn in a
fight or whatever, like every one of them there should
be like slide in their face and stuff, I'm like,
oh my god, yeah, yeah, anyway, what else was I
gonna say?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I don't know. We were trying to wrap up and
then we go.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yes, I look the I do somewhat like the ominous endings.
I do somewhat like this in this ending, especially since
like they didn't answer, give us like a big answer
for like a tidy bow on this, and I'm not
sure they should have, you know, like, uh, there.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Was exactly because it makes sense especially in the time,
like I get the Cold war ish solution of just
let's go arms racing instead of disarmament, which was you know.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Later, Yeah, there's an episode of Arrow after Ali has
become mayor of Star City, and it's like there is
like they just chose an episode to do like a
gun violence what are we gonna do situation? At the
end of the fucking episode. They never tell you what
a solution is. But he comes out, He comes out
and does like an address It says we've solved it,
(47:44):
and it is the fucking end of the episode and
they never addressed it again.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Oh my god, that is so bad.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
It's so bad. It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I think I jumped out of that that you know,
train wagon long before that episode happened. But it, yeah, yeah,
it is. I would have also settled for that episode
going the way of how do we solve gun violence
with more arrow violence? Basically just just motherfucker with a
(48:15):
gun gets a fucking arrow through the shoulder of.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Their Ya, everyone with a gun, come turn it in
and you'll receive a bow and arrow exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
That takes skill and time to acquire that skill, and
that proves you're determined enough to be a murderer like that.
It takes the impulsivity out of it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I have got to like, I can't remember what it is.
I follow an author named Jason Pargin, and he uh, yeah,
he had yeah, probably not. On the show. He does
all these like reels and stuff, and he had one
where he's like pointing out this movie that he highly recommends,
(48:57):
and he's like, you know, in every movie, the the
you know, protagonist winds up getting a gun and they're
pretty good at it. He's like, but no, in real life,
using a gun takes skill. Yeah, And he's like, I
want you to think about, like go and watch movies
and like look at everything that the protagonist does and
(49:20):
think about the fact like can I do that?
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah? If not, what what does he need to have
done to learn that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
So he's recommending this movie where the protagonist finds himself
in a precarious situation and tries to do all of
the things you see protagonists very successfully and easily do
in action movies, and the fucker fails at everything, and
it like showcases how actually hard all these things are.
(49:51):
I want to watch.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Climbing over that fence first, try motherfuckerly just that you're like,
you're gonna get stuck on the trash container, like you'll
be Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
If I can find the name of it, I'll put
in the show notes and obviously send it to you.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
But I am looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
I uh yeah, I like the down note on this episode.
I'm glad that Kirk doesn't just solve everything and exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
And that he's not happy with the quote unquote solution
he comes to where it's like, ah, we equal the odds,
but we lost something here. We destroyed a potentially more
virtuous society.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Now a little poetical, a little heavy handed. One hundred
serpents for the Garden of Eden.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, we get it. Now you've called this Eden. Yeah, Like,
at some point I will I do get tired of
the Okay, okay, Christianity is still very much a thing
in this century. I get it, Like, oh boy, yeah, well,
and it's especially because they keep they keep using that
one like if you're if you're gonna be Biblicable about it,
fucking reads something beyond Genesis, because it's always the Garden
(50:58):
of Eden, the Garden of Eden, the Garden of Eden,
parallel or an analogy in this this, in these stories,
I'm like, God, damn it, I get it. Paradise is
a thing you're you're in between fake plants.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah. Well yeah. To be fair, the original series probably
references Greek and Roman mythology just as much.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
True. True, that's absolutely fair. But when they do. It's
not like just zeus every fucking time, right, if that
makes sense, Like there's at least an understanding that there's
more to the right. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Oh we're we're talking about Theseus again, motherfucker. No.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
There's a comic book that they did where they were
in a ship called the Uss Theseus and it was
a ship that Scottie designed and it could like be
sustained over centuries by just like changing out like Partner
designed to Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's neat.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
That's a good name.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, but yeah, no, I mean I'd love I'd love
his original series episode with Kirk just being like mister
Spark is like Agamemnon and the Trojan Horse you see, yep,
And of course course like the key Clops and mister
Chekhov is the young Telemachus coming to help us father
(52:20):
fuck you?
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Oh that would be funny. And I of course am
Odysseus that is that is evident. But do I need
to explain it?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
I just have the kling On Empire will be just
like Hermes who found his cattle flad are we talking
about now?
Speaker 2 (52:42):
And at the same time, I would find that more
believable because there's and not like everyone knows that specific mythology,
but it is very, very prominent in Western culture, where
I feel like some some children learn more like atheist children,
non Christian children. I feel no more about that shit
than the Bible. Like there is a generation of people
(53:03):
my age who I have to explain like certain imagery
or or oh, this is like if you've never been
to a Catholic church, this is what that fucking painming
would have looked like. That sort of thing is very
relevant to art history students and Christians, but so many
people don't understand it anymore. Wow, so much of Roman
and Greek mythology has just seeped into everything else in
(53:27):
the same way. I guess, But no, not everyone cares
enough to know. I guess. Yeah, But I feel like
someone like Kirk in a couple of centuries might talk
about that more likely than he would talk about ead
in every fucking time. Or maybe the fact that he
talks about eat in every fucking time is a sign
that he is very much of the generation that you know.
(53:47):
I know the first half a chapter, this, this is
what I've read, this is what I've survived into culture.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
I don't know. Yeah, well, you know, I feel like
I feel like that was probably mostly all the writers
of Star Trek new about the.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Exactly. That's that's the point where it's like, oh, that
kind of breaks the difference in time for me, Yeah
a bit where I'm like, this is very sixties and
not very twenty third century.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yeah. I mean you think though, like, so you think
about like what mainstream people know about the Bible, and
that has survived for centuries, you know, like the really
like iconic mythic things like the Garden of Eden, you know, so.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
That is that that would be the thing that does survive,
probably more than what the fuck did Jonah do? Again?
Oh Job? Oh yeah, we talk about Job a lot,
like that's probably gonna go by the wayside a bit more. Yeah,
which is a shame because Job is a great fucking
(54:53):
book in terms of Oh, yeah, God is a dick
and you have to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I mean, he was testing a man, he was testing them.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, it was just an ex It was just a
wager with the devil that brought God to do the
worst of the worst one fucking guy. Yeah, and he
was still a lovely slave to God. So everything was fine.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
It was like that great wager between uh, you know,
the Phantom Stranger and the Specter about whether or not
Batman would kill the guy who killed his parents.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Indeed, and we have come back to d C. Of Coursefully,
this is not a wait oh wait, this is not
the DC on Screen podcast.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
It's not fuck that up. Yeah, as I am sitting
in a room surrounded by DC action figures wearing about absolutely.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It is not at all distracting to have the bat symbols, Like,
I will discuss other things than track if we go
along long enough.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
But sure, if I if I sit up a little better,
you can see my shirt has Wolverine on it.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
So, oh, we're gonna talk Marvel now. Anyway, we should
probably do this in between episodes.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
No, we shouldn't, because we've got another episode to get
to exactly now. Uh, next time. On Star Trek Universe,
the classic Rewatch Slash. First watch, Fie and I take
on an episode that's only for true gamesters. It's a
war of wits, a battle of Braun. Living life is
a thrall with the Gamesters of Triskelion. Ah, that was okay,
(56:25):
that was okay.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
I mean it's a stretch, but it works.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Bron Braun and Triskell.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
Oh sorry, I forgot the line before that. I have
a short term memory.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Even better, I had lots of rhymes involving uh foil.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
You should what rhymes with bikini?
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Yeah? I abandoned most of those.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Uh yeah, fair, I get it, Linguini al genie.
Speaker 1 (56:59):
I don't want to talk ABOUTI or a Fanaccini when
I'm talking about a fucking Cooder getting cooked like a
damn baked potato in a tin foil bikini. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
More on that next time on Star Trek Universe.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
All right, until then, Joel Antrue, Live long and prosper
and of.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
Course, eat a dick, people, Eat a dick.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or malagust dot tv for his web videos. If
you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out
the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.
(57:45):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, Kirk brings the
Fellows to a paradise he's visited before, but what he
finds ain't no Eden is a private little war. We're
talking Star Trek two sixteen, a private little war. Right
after these howls and snarls from our mystery Mugato's welcome
(00:24):
into Star Trek Universe's classic rewatch First Watch. I am
David c Robertson. He who hath rewatched?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am I Phil Pewler. She who hath watched first
first watched? Done the thing?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Ah hah ah, yes, yes, so I know, we just
like I just released the last episode we did, I
think last week. But it has been a really long time.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah for real, I haven't seen each other in a bit.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Oh yeah, well you know you started Dayton and shit, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
How dare it's it's no, it's it's it's it's summertime.
I don't know stuff happened. And yeah we had some
left in the bank, so right, we weren't, you know,
getting too far ahead of ourselves.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I guess sure. It's you know, I feel bad when
I have some banked and then like new star Treks
are coming out and I'm like, well, I don't know,
like I feel so bad about not putting it out.
But then again, but look, by the time you hear this,
dear sweet simple listener, No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
How we do it here on Star Trek Universe insult
the listener first and then try and get them back.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
You know. You know what it actually reminded me of
when I started to do it was that fat Duck
on the old Daffy Duck cartoon who's like kind, gentle
good to his mother, Daffy Duck. He's like, it's like
there's like a it's like a boxing match wheen him
and Elmer Fudd, and he's like he introduces Elmer like
(02:02):
he's a piece of ship, and everyone's booming him and
throwing stuff, and he's like, badgine this corner the kind
you know, And it's just Daffy like sitting over there,
humbly like smiling like hmm no. But yeah, by the
time the listeners hear this, uh, I think I'm going
to hold this off until Strange New Worlds is over
(02:23):
in at this point three weeks, because we're coming out
every week with Strange New Worlds right now.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
We've actually also been talking about, uh, you know, the
the new Paramount people coming in, David Ellison, who we've
had concerns about because he's a billionaire and he billionaires
bought a bunch of Paramount with his family's money, and
he's been seeing he's been seen with Trump. We don't
know what capacity exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I'm guessing to say, thanks for the extra billions he's
gonna in tax cuts.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
But where he comes from is sky Dance, and he
was an executive producer on the last two Star Trek films.
He's a huge Star Trek fan, so says Simon peg.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
So says Simon peg fair enough.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
And I tend to believe Simon Peg on such matters.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And I have no idea how Simon Pegg is involved
in any of Trek. By the way, really, I try
to stay out of this shit. Man. I'm sayah, but
you've seen marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, but you've seen the first two of the Abrams films.
He was Scotty, all right.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, But I've seen that years ago, probably before I
realized who Simon Pegu was, because that's before I watched
the Cornado trilogy or anything. So that is that is
good to know, good to remember.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yes, he is Scotty and he wrote the third film,
Star Trek Beyond, which is the best one.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Dope.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Fuck yeah, he's been trying to get a fourth movie.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
He's just the one I haven't seen because by then
we'd started sort of started the show. I think, I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
That was twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
They never mind, we haven't started the show so much
as I had it on it on this on my list,
and then we started the show, and then I was like, no,
I can't fucking watch the third one. I mean you can,
I can, I can, but I will remember the first
two clearly.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Right. But here's the other exciting thing is they just
he David Ellison just hired. I can't remember his name now,
but I just talked about in the last episode, so
regular listeners, uh oh not in the last episode, but
it'll be will shout out Chris Parnell. Chris Parnell.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
He is a guy who for Apple TV developed for
All Humanity or whatever that space show is for all mankind,
for all mankind. That's it.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
I have actually seen that.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yeah. Yeah, and he's a huge star. Trek Nerd a
huge comic book nerd so and he's put him in
charge of Paramount Plus programming, so they are looking to
expand their Star Trek lineup drastically. So it is a
very exciting time to be catching up.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Mm hmmm, especially at all right, which means it'll be
twenty fifty by the time I end up in Paramount
plus ratory.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
You know what, we can go faster. We can go fast.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
That's true. That's true. I ain't got shit to do.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
So anyway, we should probably talk about this episode.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
That's a good idea, it is.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And I was just looking at the at the on
our watch list, and we are like a month. If
we did one or did two episodes for three weeks
and then three episodes on the fourth week, we would
be through the second season in a month.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah. Time flies. It's like we're getting close. It's not
that long a season anyway.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Yeah, yeah, we're getting up there. AnyWho. The Memory Alpha
synopsis on this episode, on a planet with a primitive civilization,
the Enterprise discovers that the Klingons are providing a stone
age society with increasingly advanced weaponry.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Oh spoilers, yes, that is that is what we find out.
And and then we get a whole diatribe about how
to solve that.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
How did you feel, I I.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's it was interesting and at the same time it
was I think it was good because I was having
a lot of trouble agreeing because it is it is
one of those things where it's like, oh, we're really
stuck in the Cold War era, Like the only solution
is like and equalizing these these as as too great
(06:39):
powers imbalance because otherwise they'll one will destroy the other,
which is kind of feeding into the arms race, which
feels weird for you know where the Cold War actually
ended up, and we're still trying to get rid of
the goddamn atomic weapons. So that's gonna take forever until
(06:59):
someone uses I guess at this point we can we
can destroy this planet a couple of times over sure.
But it was very very clear in that that parallel
let's say, it was very explicit in getting the history
tied in there, which is fun because it wasn't that
(07:20):
much history at the time of production, but it is now.
So that's that that was that was interesting, But it's
at the same time it is it is really it
is a pickle, like they're in there in a situation
that is very hard to solve necessarily, But at the
same time, like I like the pacifist species in this show,
(07:45):
like why do we need to wreck this? And there's
there's a there was so much it's it's well, we'll
get there. But this is this is one I really
I liked. I like, yeah, this was good. Yeah it is.
It was. It at least posed an interesting matter whether
or not I completely liked every twist and turn, but
(08:09):
that's me, you know, thinking differently about something, but at
least I'm thinking about it. So that's that's a good
thing generally, where I'm like, oh, I it doesn't say
much about quality, whether or not I want things to
go a certain way. No fuck it, they went this way,
and now I have feelings about that, and that's good.
(08:29):
Yeah that's what we're here for.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So yeah, I really wish I could see an alternate
reality where Gene Coon had been in charge of this episode.
I get that because this one was very clearly rewritten
by roden Berry.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Gene Coon was very like anti war, and roden Berry
is kind of like he's really pushing the Vietnam thing here,
like yay, Vietnam. Kirk chooses Vietnam. Now I do like
that McCoy was so against it. Yeah, that was the
important bit, Like Kirk didn't have a better solution, and
neither did McCoy in this particular instance. And I think
(09:12):
one of the big failings of the episode is it's
kind of a failing and it's also kind of like
I just wish we had gone back to it at
some point and the extra you know, the extended universe
stuff they do, but you know, I hate that it's
Kirk being like, yeah, okay, arm them, and then the
enterprise just flies away, like no, I need to see
(09:34):
the consequences of this. I know the consequences of this,
but you know what I mean, Like, it's not gonna
go well, no, you know that. But you know, if
they do, if they do really do anything with the Klingons,
they're plunging the whole fucking quadrant into war. I don't
know what to do. I don't know the solution either, exactly.
(09:58):
But you know, sometimes episodes are just there for thinking
you don't need the solution.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No exactly. It is the the whole thing where they
end up being very tired. I felt that too, But
it is because they wrote themselves into that corner where
it's like there is no good outcome. There's no great
fucking solution, there's just okay. So we can't meddle with them.
We can we can only arm them. It's it's it
(10:26):
goes a bit far to like murder the village people.
There's no taking their stuff because kling ms will just
come back. You know, there's there's not that much you
can do.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Well, he said that murder the village people. Now I
just got murder people.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Is playing? Have Trump do a little dance in the corner.
We know he loves the song. And then you know,
then you have one peaceful people still existing peacefully and
by by virtue of a non pacifistic people coming in
(11:05):
and rescuing them from the other fuckers. This is how
you keep peace and with lots of violence. Have I
watched the first episode of peace Maker? Probably?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Oh yes, yes, yes, me too. Different.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
You know, sometimes you have to kill the village apparently.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, sometimes it would.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Have been a solution. I'm just it's not a great one. Yeah,
have like phasers, you can murder the shit out of
all of them.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So this is one of those is an interesting episode
in terms of society because like when they filmed it,
only about fifteen to twenty percent of people in the
American public was opposed to the war effort in Vietnam.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
By January of nineteen sixty eight, just a few weeks
before this episode aired, about twenty eight percent of the
American public labeled themselves as doves, which is, you know,
the people who were anti war. But like three days
before this episode aired, the first satellite pictures from the
(12:14):
tet offensive came through and we saw the destruction that
was going on. And by April of nineteen sixty eight,
the Doves outnumbered the Hawks quote unquote hawks forty two
to forty one percent. So it was like Star Trek
came out, like this episode of Star Trek came out
like three days after the world turned against the Vietnam War,
(12:39):
like ye, and so then it's just like oh my god,
and people you know today would not understand this. So
I'm sure people back then were like, oh, well, they
they're trying to they're trying to make that see, like
trying to get us on board of the Vietnam war again.
Look at this.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, yeah, because it is very much. The oh we're
we're doing proxy war ship. That's the whole idea where
the Klingons just come in and be like, ah, this
seems fun to us. Just fuck around with this civilization
for a bit. One day you'll be part of us
if you, you know, take out all of the other
people on your planet.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
But yeah, to say that, it's then the right solution
to enter that proxy war as the opposite global power,
namely the Federation, and and insert yourself into this conflict
by arming the other side. Yeah, that's a very cia
thing to do. And in this case, Num is right there. Yeah,
(13:42):
that must have been a poorly time Jesus Christ. Three days,
three days.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, I mean, of course, it's not like that was
just when they had it scheduled, like they shot it
months and months and months before. They had no idea.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
They that was just yeah, yeahs terrible timing. But you
can't go back, like if you swap him around next week,
that doesn't help. It'll just be further away from the
three day things.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
So but importantly, I do think it was interesting. I
do think it was important that Kirk. It wasn't the
thing that Kirk wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, yeah, he is somber about it all the way through.
At the same time, if you translate that to reality,
that would be oh as the US. I am so
saddened by the white men's burden to have to, you know,
go over there and fix Vietnam, like you could also
just like in real life, it's a little more complicated
(14:40):
because the Kleons are just fucking assholes and communism is
actually not that bad, but don't tell the Americans, you.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Know, it's funny that, like.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Not that Vietnam was specifically the best outcome for any
sort of rush influence.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
But right, you know, corruption from people will fuck up
any good idea.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it helps to not have
corrupt assholes in charge.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
Like right, so let's look at God. There's a lot
of weird unevenness about this episode, and I don't know
exactly what I really want to attack here, like it is.
I love that they even had the bit on the
(15:33):
bridge where Kirk is like, no, they wouldn't have been
able to create these weapons at this point, and then
everyone on the bridge is like, yeah, but we've seen
different stages of development. It doesn't have to develop like Earth.
Maybe it's this, maybe it's this, maybe it's maybe they skipped.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Ahead a bit, but also it's exactly like Earth, so
that's kind of the weird thing.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And he was like, I did not invite debate, and
then immediately it's like, sorry, I'm in worried about Spock.
I'm worried about my friend Tyree and all this. We
get it, dude, you're worried about it. I kind of
hate that Kirk.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
Is right, Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
But he kind of has to be for this specific
episode to happen.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
So yeah, because if you don't have the oh it's
the glingon's arming them, right, you don't risk the entire
Federation going to war, which means you could have just
taken away the fucking weapons and right and you know,
set them back a couple of centuries.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Mm hmm. But I am. I am glad. I guess
that they hung the lantern. Yeah, because the whole like
I would have been mad and been like, why do
they have to follow Earth's development? You know they don't.
And when I was glad to hear other people, the
other crew members go, they don't have to. We've seen
a lot of shit. I have heard over the years,
(16:49):
I've heard several arguments about how this is once again,
you know, the white man romanticizing a native culture as
being you know, old fashioned, and the garden of Eden,
it's a simpler time, like ah, and sort of like
having sort of a condescending attitude. I personally do not
(17:12):
feel that way about this episode because it was of
the way that it was introduced as Kirk is returning
to this place. He was a young lieutenant, he made
friends here.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
He lived here.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
It was a non violent culture he cared about.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I think it's not so much condescension and al it's
a simpler time. I think it's truly a form of
admiration that I that comes across to me in that, oh,
they they're holding on to their pacifism and we couldn't.
We had to go through three World Wars at least
and get back to some semblance of balance. And but yeah,
(17:52):
there is a but I think it's also just us
making that that leap to Okay, so this is a
native culture, but we're not just stumbling upon it. It
is indeed like oh no, he's been here, he's been
among them for and and then had to leave again.
If anything, but like, I'm not sure I would go
(18:15):
full orientalism on the the the white people living in
a camp in an intense and ship. It's like, if anything,
that the representation of women in this episode woman Yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
I don't doubt that. Like that was weird. That was she.
(18:38):
Her character was all over the place. That was just
you you couldn't see her coming, just swinging. Oh. But
because because she's she's at the same time, she's she's
like this witch who has enchanted his old friend and
it's a weird fucking wife husband relationship, and she's trying
(18:58):
to get him into war, and and Kirk is trying
to somewhat talk sense into him. But also then her
final she she turns out to be the catalyst her
death to be avenged, and then that escalates the conflict,
even though by that point she has clearly cheated on
(19:21):
what's his face with Kirk because he has a cool
machine gun in the uh, like Jesus, it's it's, it's
it's she is. She's not very likable, let's do it
that way. But also like he still deeply cares. Yeah,
even though he's no longer getting whatever herbs she was
(19:44):
rubbing on his skin.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Like I mean, yeah, she I don't know what all
that's about. Like I hate that part of the show,
of this episode one that they don't explain what the
deal is with her little magic herbs and her spell
that she cast too, like like Tyrene, man, how are
you gonna be okay with it? Because he was like
(20:06):
you have to spell on me? He's happy about it,
Just still.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Be aware of it, like how does this work? But
like the worst thing is it would have worked without that.
She could have just had the herbs to cure Kirk
then have the tradition of like you can't refuse me now,
because that's that's you owe me your life. Basically that
would have worked you at every turn. It's like you
(20:33):
could have just been actually in love but disagreeing on
the war effort. You could have just been a woman
with an opinion instead of a woman with a curse.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Like what Yeah, they treat her like she is like
she saves his life, not out of goodness, not out
of any kind of altruistic reason. She does it to
get something. She gets it to find out information and
to own Kirk. She does a weird fucking like orgasmic
(21:03):
thing to cure him that was completely blood letting.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Uh huh that I mean, that's that's just cool. But
like even if that's but the over fair enough.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, And it's the sixties, so we like we know
exactly what they are talking about when they say anything
about a witch, like, okay, fucking all right, it's just satanic. Yeah, like, oh,
you're a bad guy because witch.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah, And yeah, of course they.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
Don't even try to hide it. But also I can't,
I couldn't help but notice, like they chose a woman
of dark skin.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, but she's also the whole fact that it is
that they they are so insistent on continually pointing out
that she is a canoe too or whatever. Yeah, is
very like oh as if she's a different species or
a different uh group in this like like there is
(22:04):
just a bunch of them living outside of the village people,
and I'm gonna keep calling them the village people and
the hill people or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And every time they said the hill people, I thought
of that Mike Myers sketch. He's like, you of the
hill people, come and join us, won't you? And the
other chieftains are discussing how to walk with a woman
and of course you have like Lovetz's chieftain, who's likely
I've had many very brisk walks with myself. It's brilliant, delightful. Yeah.
(22:50):
So but anyway, of course, the only way to handle
a woman like that who's seeking power and deceiving men.
By the way, it's Larry is that Like Tyree didn't
even like, not even mad at Kirk. It was just like,
I know that is the way of the woman she has,
she has the spells. I understand, friend Kirk. I understand,
(23:11):
friend Kirk. I almost killed you. But then I was like, nah.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I'm a peaceful motherfucker until she gets killed by other
motherfuckers that I'm not friends with, and now I want
to shoot them. Right, She's like I almost she was
pretty good at Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Like, no, this bitch be trifling.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
No, But at that point I had like, Okay, this
marriage has some some fucked up issues now, but like,
he'll he'll he'll maybe he'll break the curse from the
witch and then uh, you know, but at least I
had hope still that he would stick to his pacifistic
he send his for a minute. Yeah, that's that's the
(23:49):
thing where I'm like god damn it. Yeah, but that's
that's that's an emotional response, I guess. So I first
I would have been chewed out by Spock, but also
it's kind of the point of of fiction.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So yeah, well, I mean he was shot, so he
couldn't be in this episode to be on that from
to time. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, he had to fight himself out of it.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah, which is a weird bit of ron berry Ism,
Like you have him being Goa to be like doctor
and Benga be like whatever he does, do it like okay,
well this is getting into some shit.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah. Yeah, you could have just told her by the
way to like, oh, he's probably gonna ask you to
like pull him out of that. Just hit him. I
want you to hit him, Yeah, don't worry about it.
Like he could have prepared her a little better than
be like anything he.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Ees whenever he asks, you'd be a good little girl exactly,
Like that could be.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Like I need you to suck my falcon dick and
hit me in the face. She doesn't fucking know, Like,
I mean, it would be slightly illogical perhaps to assault
someone that way, but you don't know, we don't know.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
The whole thing is fucking weird and then like my.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Organs regrow faster if I turned my mental energy inside,
Like that is a very it is a very intellect
over everything else kind of approach to They're like, oh, no,
mind over body, and it is that idea is flawed
in some ways. It's not how you typically heal physically anyway.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Well, I mean I I kind of connect it. I
will admit that I've always really liked that aspect of Spock,
and it's a thing that I.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Like it as an idea for the Vulcans.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, right, it's a thing that I have been sad
that they have somewhat lost in more modern iterations where
they are much less inclined to push into what even
had been referred to in the original series and the
movies as Vulcan mysticism. Right, there's something about him, there's
(26:00):
something about those that group that they could do certain things,
and I liked having that as a mystery. And then
I mean, what are you gonna do? You gotta you
gotta explore story somewhere.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah that.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So, yeah, it's a weird. It's a weird Spock episode,
or there's a reason for Spock to be out of
commission I would have loved to have seen that that
version of the episode where Spock is on neur All
talking to talking to Kirk through all this ship.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, yeah, not just have McCoy be there, but also
him and like have the the devil on shoulder.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Thing, you know, the way McCoy argues ship you just
don't want to you don't want to do.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
The problem where like, I agree with this fucker, but
also damn it, I don't want to tell him that.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
And also if like if Spock had had the the
the say pacifistic view, who would have had a better idea,
a better plan. McCoy will come in emotionally be mad
at you for trying to solve it, and then have
no alternative, and then you're like, oh, I guess this
option has no recourse. There's no real way of pursuing
(27:17):
that ideal, So I guess fuck that that principle, which
is a very easy way to get rid of the
option of Well, okay, but could could McCoy have had a.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Point to consider that?
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, he absolutely.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Had a point, and Kirk knew it, but it was
also at the same time he was like, what's your solution?
Because I don't have it. Yeah, I don't know, Like.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Technically, as a federation, they have a fucking solution, and
it is the prime directive. It is sorry for your friends,
but you can't help them that way. Apparently one of
the like one group out of this species is gonna
murder the other one. But you do have to deal
with the cling On threat because they're interfering, they're breaking
(28:02):
the treaty. You don't want to throw everyone into war,
but you do want to keep them the fuck away
from there, because otherwise you're going to have a Klingon
governor ship government, government, I guess, a province, a province whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Of Krell said that he was going to make up
Pella kling On governor or some ship.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, but I I mean the the what them would
you call the part of the Klingon Empire that the
planet now becomes a governor governs what a world? That's
what I mean? Yeah, exactly, that's that. That was a
word I was trying to look for. Neural is the
name fair enough? We'll stick to that.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, it wasn't in the episode. It was only in
the script. Yeap, oh yeah, yeah, the script. Yeah, so yeah,
I think I started to say it earlier. But yeah,
just I don't like the there was no I didn't
see any reason for on top of everything, you know,
making Nana like the worst person in the world, which fine,
(29:03):
A woman can be the worst person in the world,
that's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So yeah, I mean only one can be the worst.
I guess only one woman can be the worst person
in the world, right, but you know, the worst woman.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
At least that don't mean that she needs to get
like fucking sexually assaulted.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
No, no, not necessarily. Would would have been fine without that.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
That was a weird little bit, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, Yeah, that was distressing in a way where it's
it's very much framed as an action sequence, like, oh,
there's something happening. They're trying to rape her, Like what
the fuck? What am I looking at? There's no one,
there's no real fight, there's just continued struggle. That's pretty
(29:48):
hard to watch. Yeah, it's it's very clearly like it's
not that explicitly sexual, but it's very clearly implied that
that would be what the village people are. Of course
the village people, but what's sexually assaulted woman? Yeah, secretly
straight we know this.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
I think I'm more or less annoyed that it's there
because I know me and I know I'm gonna have
to defend it, like in the same way I defended
it on that when Star Wars did it recently and
I don't even remember what it was on and or something.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I have no clue.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
You know, there are lots of people who are like,
I'm just mad that this is in my Star Trek,
you know, and I'm like, yes, fuck, but one you
know that that's what's gonna happen. Yeah, you know, it's
just it is.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
I have zero problem with the realism of it. It's
just you could have depicted that way simpler, way shorter,
and less viscerally. I don't necessarily need to see that
as a who tintillating thing. Like maybe in the late
sixties that was okay, but by now you wouldn't shoot
it like this right now there would be gruesome.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
There was an implication one of the quotes though earlier,
that I think it it calls back to subtly, well
not that subtly, but when Pella Appella tells Krill, I
felt my people would grow tired of killing, but you
were right. They see that it is easier than trading
and it has pleasures.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Was like, what kind of pl oh.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Oh, I didn't. I didn't link that immediately because I
took that sincerely from a klingon as the fun of hunting,
like it has pleasures. I like, I see what you mean.
When I heard it at first, I was just like, oh,
it's pretty fun to just kill them and take their stuff. Like.
I took that purely as mankind, not really mankind, but
(31:46):
like people being shitty and inclined towards violence, and not
necessarily sexual violence. Person I took that as the joy
of the hunt of murder. I don't know, psychopaths.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Uh yeah, apparently. But without that, there's a way less
meaning behind this quote from her touched me again and
this small box will kill you.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
God damn it. Out of context. Yeah, yeah, she's.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Talking about a phaser. Oh my god, oh.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Box, the metal box. Never mind, never mind, guys. But yeah,
then they they did touch her again.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
And again, I guess, and they did.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
She murdered them. Did she just not understand the fucking
small box?
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah? It kept showing like close ups of her fingers,
and then like, I guess she doesn't understand how to
use it.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
I guess, But she could have just figured that out
before she fucking stole it. Yeah, hit Kirk with rock,
I guess. Yeah, she tried it on a tree before
walking up to the village people. Like the village people,
I keep hearing it, and it's She.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Was like, well, if I try it it out, it's
just gonna heat that rock, that's all it's gonna do,
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, which would have been good to know how the
fucking thing works. She can heat a rock, you can
heat a man's skull.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
That's right. Yeah, No, I don't know. There were lots
of wonkiness too. There was lots of wonkiness to this episode.
I feel like, yeah, lots of weird little choices they made.
Nana was uh one of the weirdest choices, And you know,
it could have been like, I mean, I get I
get it, Okay, I get it. You're making a show.
(33:38):
You're like, what's gonna make a man go against everything
he believes in a woman you're in the sixties, you
believe that shit to your core.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
And like it makes sense if it were actually not
just some evil witch woman, but like if he really
fucking loved her and she hadn't cheated on him truly,
but just I don't know, knocked his friend out. I
guess like if that were a better marriage, you would
have been more inclined to believe he would just throw
(34:09):
away civilization and go on a murderer's round.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I feel like it would have been such a more
interesting take if Nana had not been some kind of
weird witch thing creature and just been Yeah, if she
had had even if she didn't even have to fucking
villainize her, it would have been more interesting if she
was just like, had a difference of opinion from Tyree
and was just like, Dude, they're wiping us out. I
(34:33):
think we probably need to listen to your buddy.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
We should probably fight back. And that was before Buddy
shows up and is hesitant to give them any weapons
until he finds out that the other side is indeed
being armed by an outside force instead of naturally evolving
to that point. Yeah, I mean, that's the only way
he can justify helping them and actually wrecked the find
(35:00):
the imbalance by going, Okay, this is the knowledge they
were given and you lack now, which I think is
admirable that he would like if it had just been
the village people going a bit faster and like finding
this shut out for themselves. I feel like Kirk would
(35:21):
have sacrificed his friends. It suggests that Kirk would have
been okay, So I can't interfere because this is just
what happens to the civilization, which is far more interesting.
So that's why you need the Klingons there. But I
do agree that having her be a witch serves no purpose.
You could have just had her heel Kirk somehow, some way,
(35:42):
and that be the extent of her powers. Quote unquote, Yeah,
there's there's sometimes the mysticism is just a bit much.
It is very much the Yeah, I don't know, but
that that and that ties in with the weird healing
with the Vulcan too, where that part does feel a
little weird, where it's doctor Amenga, who is who has
(36:06):
spent time with Vulcans, Like that feels like not entirely
incidental casting of a black man, especially given the name.
I don't know, it feels very oh he spent time
in Africa, you know, like that that vibe. But I'm
getting a bit off track, like on the on the
(36:26):
side of of of Nona it's It's just it would
have worked better if it was an emotional response rather
than is he still under the influence of her leaves?
Or is she or or? Or is she is that gone?
And is he? Did he genuinely care? Like there is
that whole? Oh that's give an air of mystery around
her being this kind of woman who gives men power
(36:51):
and helps him be ambitious, because it can't just be
the men being ambitious. He was fine and content, like
he's wise enough to be like, oh, we're fine living
in these tents and we don't have to murder people.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I don't know for certain, I suspect Nona and her
the presentation of her character is a rodden berryism. Yeah,
Like I don't. I need to look back at the
original writer, the original script if I could find it,
you know, yeah, but you know Rodenberry Like, okay, so
(37:28):
we can get into some some trivia here.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Oh yeah, let's go production stuff.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So in don Ingall's original story outline, the Klingon antagonist
was core from the episode Errand of Mercy.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Oh right, the same guy?
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, sure, may yeah. In a May twenty sixth, nineteen
sixty seven memo, Bob Justman criticized this point, writing, here
we are in the outer reaches of our galaxy, and
who should Captain Kirk run into but good old Core,
an adversary that he has encountered before, and with whom
he has been an able to get very far. Just
think of it, billions of stars and millions of class
(38:04):
M type planets. And who should he run into but
a fella he has had trouble with before. No wonder
Core doesn't recognize him at first. The coincidence is so
astounding that he must feel certain that it couldn't possibly
have happened fair enough, damn dig intoude.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
It's a long way to say, dude, why would it
be the same guy? Yeah, doesn't add anything, and it's unlikely,
but yeah, yeah, it's a good point. You have to,
you know, really ham it up in your writing back
in the sixties to make a point internal memos.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
So in don Ingles's second draft, the character's name was
changed to Krell and Uh. The original writer don Ingles
put the pseudonym jud Crusis on it. After Gene rod
Berry rewrote it. Ingle's original contained many more overt Vietnam
analogies than what finally appeared according to Alan Asherman's The
Star Trek Compendium, script referred to Appella as a ho
(39:03):
Chi Minh type and the tribesmen wearing Mongolian clothes. Though
friends with roden Berry since their days is l A
p D Officers, Ingles did not like the changes, and
the pseudonym was his wordplay on Jesus crucified Jesus christ
Man like ego much.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
It's it's a bit on the nose, motherfucker. Like yeah,
as much as I got that from cruises, I was like,
this is a this is a crucifixion thing, right, but.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Yeah, like he's sacrificing himself, dude, Like okay. So as
much as I'm sitting here going like okay, shit was rewritten, Roddenberry.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
PRIs myself for the sins of ry, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Like it's funny, Like it's so weird because you would,
I would bet you anything like roden Berry would totally
look look at that script and just be like, I
don't like this ho Chi Minh ship. That's too much anyway,
So I'm adding this sexy gypsy woman, Yeah, who's got
(40:00):
a cast a spell on the captain. Oh god, It's
like wait, what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (40:10):
That's great?
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Did you see what the guy wrote? He it's bullshit,
it's crazy anyway.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
That's insanity. But now let me add some.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
The original script called the creature a gumato with a G,
but DeForest Kelly kept saying it wrong, so it was changed.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
That's amazing. The credits it was right. Yeah, we just
flip the consonants and that's what they stuck with.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Fair enough. The credits still retained the original name. Stock
footage of the white rabbit's footprints from shortly if we're
used for the mugato prints you noticed, like the big
bunny rabbit feet.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I didn't think about it much. I completely skipped over
with that. But also you mentioned that the neural name
isn't set, but at the same time, I feel I
felt like it was. So maybe that's a re reworked
thing in the remastering.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
But yeah, I mean I remember that name.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
From like the first bit of the casaslog or something.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I did say in the last episode we did.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah no, I like no, but I feel like watching it,
I heard it. I feel like at some point, uh
Kirk says neural, but I in the voice over, I
don't know why I would think that maybe maybe it's
just some Mandela effect thing that now that I see it,
I'm inserting it in there.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
But well, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
Mean it was in the subtitles or something. Maybe it
was like one.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Of those The trivia just says that although the script
specifies that the planet is named Neural, the name is
never mentioned in the episode itself. And I have read
all this shit before, and I I just know that's
the fucking name of the planet, man, Like, So I
don't know. Of course, I didn't pay attention enough to
you know, I get that. Yeah, I'm like, I couldn't
tell you I have you had you know me, I
(41:59):
have an notorious bad memory. I do, like, especially on
like weird stuff like that. I'm just like, oh God,
like I don't know, like I'm mixing Matt shit. Man,
I don't know. I think that's all we've got on
this episode, though, Yeah, do you have anything?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
I don't think so, I do, like the the the
little trivia thing of like this is the only episode
in the season to not have a happy ending music. No, yeah,
fitting that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You know, I didn't tell you that because I didn't
tell you that because I felt like that was a
spoiler for the rest of the season.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Oh oh okay, yeah, now that you mention it, Oh,
the rest is happy. No, that's that's I get why.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
But even even up to now, like it felt fitting
like it closed on a note that was very much like,
I'm not happy about this. Nobody's real happy with the outcome,
And I like that totally. I think it's that core
of an idea in this episode that I really like
and connect to. I'm like frustrated by to to an extent,
(43:03):
and that's really the strength of it. And then there's
a whole bunch of ye yeah, rotten berry slime on
top of it, where you're like, I could have done
without that, yeah, and that, but you know what you're
gonna do. It's it's it's still at least one of
the more interesting ones, because at least it tends to
tackle an ethical question and deal with a wrestle with
(43:24):
that that what do we do in this situation and
sort of explore those non existent boundaries of the brand directive,
because it is that that makes it it interesting and
and tragic and makes the bond between Kirk and what's
(43:45):
his face? Tyree? Thank you. I was just like, the
double e is somewhere two. But yeah, that that what
that's what makes it count. And then there's a bunch
of ship around it where you're like, oh, I didn't
this feels weird, but.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
Okay, yeah, by the way, I almost when you were like, oh,
keep keep calling them hill people and uh and village
people like just blonde wigs versus black wigs, would like,
is that about?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Uh. Even though the hill people are apparently blonde, it's
a very Aryan race, but they have little dots on
their forehead, so it's, you know, part of the species.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Thing, right. They had some kind of weird stuff going on.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Yeah, which also makes like because the village people, besides
not being blonde, didn't have that, so it was truly
like different species on that planet.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I would assume, Oh, I don't know, I don't know.
I thought they were just they might just be different
offshoots or offshoots or you know, different races.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Because it was sort of suggested like that. But at
the same time, like half of them looked like slightly
more alien in terms of costume department than the other half.
People in the hill village people just look like village people,
I'm yea god.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
And then like the Hill people just have like Lisa
Frank stickers and on their forehead and big blood wigs
like be hive wigs.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
Yeah yeah, but Lisa frank Sticker is is apparently your feature.
That's a that's a species thing of like oh we're
we're we're glitterally on the forehead.
Speaker 1 (45:24):
In my in my head, Cannon, all of them are
bald because there's not a motherfucker on nerawl who is
that clearly who isn't clearly wearing a wig like black hair,
Nona totally wearing a wig. Half of her scenes, her
wig is like shifted to the side, and you could
(45:44):
tell she's just wearing like a big ass wig, like
Shatner's wearing a wig. Fucking everybody in this show is
wearing a wig.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Oh we Shatton wearing a wig in this one. I
didn't even.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Oh yeah, he's got too bad. He used to steal
two pays. Yeah, he used to steal two pays at
the end of the season.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
That makes sense, But also like that that one looks better, Yeah,
like like it it suits him. They clearly invested more
in his two pay than whatever tyree.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
Yeah, absolutely, that's why Shatner stole.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
The luscious locks were this doesn't make up picture on
memory Alpha. There is like the guy on the left
has a less obvious wig if it is a wig
on the right definitely has the Tyree treatment of just
harsh harsh shadow line.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
But when they start moving around and Joscelyn in a
fight or whatever, like every one of them there should
be like slide in their face and stuff, I'm like,
oh my god, yeah, yeah, anyway, what else was I
gonna say?
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I don't know. We were trying to wrap up and
then we go.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Yes, I look the I do somewhat like the ominous endings.
I do somewhat like this in this ending, especially since
like they didn't answer, give us like a big answer
for like a tidy bow on this, and I'm not
sure they should have, you know, like, uh, there.
Speaker 2 (47:11):
Was exactly because it makes sense especially in the time,
like I get the Cold war ish solution of just
let's go arms racing instead of disarmament, which was you know.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
Later, Yeah, there's an episode of Arrow after Ali has
become mayor of Star City, and it's like there is
like they just chose an episode to do like a
gun violence what are we gonna do situation? At the
end of the fucking episode. They never tell you what
a solution is. But he comes out, He comes out
and does like an address It says we've solved it,
(47:44):
and it is the fucking end of the episode and
they never addressed it again.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Oh my god, that is so bad.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
It's so bad. It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
I think I jumped out of that that you know,
train wagon long before that episode happened. But it, yeah, yeah,
it is. I would have also settled for that episode
going the way of how do we solve gun violence
with more arrow violence? Basically just just motherfucker with a
(48:15):
gun gets a fucking arrow through the shoulder of.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Their Ya, everyone with a gun, come turn it in
and you'll receive a bow and arrow exactly.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
That takes skill and time to acquire that skill, and
that proves you're determined enough to be a murderer like that.
It takes the impulsivity out of it.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I have got to like, I can't remember what it is.
I follow an author named Jason Pargin, and he uh, yeah,
he had yeah, probably not. On the show. He does
all these like reels and stuff, and he had one
where he's like pointing out this movie that he highly recommends,
(48:57):
and he's like, you know, in every movie, the the
you know, protagonist winds up getting a gun and they're
pretty good at it. He's like, but no, in real life,
using a gun takes skill. Yeah, And he's like, I
want you to think about, like go and watch movies
and like look at everything that the protagonist does and
(49:20):
think about the fact like can I do that?
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah? If not, what what does he need to have
done to learn that? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (49:29):
So he's recommending this movie where the protagonist finds himself
in a precarious situation and tries to do all of
the things you see protagonists very successfully and easily do
in action movies, and the fucker fails at everything, and
it like showcases how actually hard all these things are.
(49:51):
I want to watch.
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Climbing over that fence first, try motherfuckerly just that you're like,
you're gonna get stuck on the trash container, like you'll
be Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
If I can find the name of it, I'll put
in the show notes and obviously send it to you.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
But I am looking forward to that.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
I uh yeah, I like the down note on this episode.
I'm glad that Kirk doesn't just solve everything and exactly.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
And that he's not happy with the quote unquote solution
he comes to where it's like, ah, we equal the odds,
but we lost something here. We destroyed a potentially more
virtuous society.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
Now a little poetical, a little heavy handed. One hundred
serpents for the Garden of Eden.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
Yeah, we get it. Now you've called this Eden. Yeah, Like,
at some point I will I do get tired of
the Okay, okay, Christianity is still very much a thing
in this century. I get it, Like, oh boy, yeah, well,
and it's especially because they keep they keep using that
one like if you're if you're gonna be Biblicable about it,
fucking reads something beyond Genesis, because it's always the Garden
(50:58):
of Eden, the Garden of Eden, the Garden of Eden,
parallel or an analogy in this this, in these stories,
I'm like, God, damn it, I get it. Paradise is
a thing you're you're in between fake plants.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah. Well yeah. To be fair, the original series probably
references Greek and Roman mythology just as much.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
True. True, that's absolutely fair. But when they do. It's
not like just zeus every fucking time, right, if that
makes sense, Like there's at least an understanding that there's
more to the right. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 2 (51:34):
Oh we're we're talking about Theseus again, motherfucker. No.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
There's a comic book that they did where they were
in a ship called the Uss Theseus and it was
a ship that Scottie designed and it could like be
sustained over centuries by just like changing out like Partner
designed to Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's neat.
Speaker 2 (52:00):
That's a good name.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, but yeah, no, I mean I'd love I'd love
his original series episode with Kirk just being like mister
Spark is like Agamemnon and the Trojan Horse you see, yep,
And of course course like the key Clops and mister
Chekhov is the young Telemachus coming to help us father
(52:20):
fuck you?
Speaker 2 (52:24):
Oh that would be funny. And I of course am
Odysseus that is that is evident. But do I need
to explain it?
Speaker 1 (52:32):
I just have the kling On Empire will be just
like Hermes who found his cattle flad are we talking
about now?
Speaker 2 (52:42):
And at the same time, I would find that more
believable because there's and not like everyone knows that specific mythology,
but it is very, very prominent in Western culture, where
I feel like some some children learn more like atheist children,
non Christian children. I feel no more about that shit
than the Bible. Like there is a generation of people
(53:03):
my age who I have to explain like certain imagery
or or oh, this is like if you've never been
to a Catholic church, this is what that fucking painming
would have looked like. That sort of thing is very
relevant to art history students and Christians, but so many
people don't understand it anymore. Wow, so much of Roman
and Greek mythology has just seeped into everything else in
(53:27):
the same way. I guess, But no, not everyone cares
enough to know. I guess. Yeah, But I feel like
someone like Kirk in a couple of centuries might talk
about that more likely than he would talk about ead
in every fucking time. Or maybe the fact that he
talks about eat in every fucking time is a sign
that he is very much of the generation that you know.
(53:47):
I know the first half a chapter, this, this is
what I've read, this is what I've survived into culture.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
I don't know. Yeah, well, you know, I feel like
I feel like that was probably mostly all the writers
of Star Trek new about the.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Exactly. That's that's the point where it's like, oh, that
kind of breaks the difference in time for me, Yeah
a bit where I'm like, this is very sixties and
not very twenty third century.
Speaker 1 (54:16):
Yeah. I mean you think though, like, so you think
about like what mainstream people know about the Bible, and
that has survived for centuries, you know, like the really
like iconic mythic things like the Garden of Eden, you know, so.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
That is that that would be the thing that does survive,
probably more than what the fuck did Jonah do? Again?
Oh Job? Oh yeah, we talk about Job a lot,
like that's probably gonna go by the wayside a bit more. Yeah,
which is a shame because Job is a great fucking
(54:53):
book in terms of Oh, yeah, God is a dick
and you have to deal with it.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
I mean, he was testing a man, he was testing them.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
Yeah, it was just an ex It was just a
wager with the devil that brought God to do the
worst of the worst one fucking guy. Yeah, and he
was still a lovely slave to God. So everything was fine.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
It was like that great wager between uh, you know,
the Phantom Stranger and the Specter about whether or not
Batman would kill the guy who killed his parents.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
Indeed, and we have come back to d C. Of Coursefully,
this is not a wait oh wait, this is not
the DC on Screen podcast.
Speaker 1 (55:37):
It's not fuck that up. Yeah, as I am sitting
in a room surrounded by DC action figures wearing about absolutely.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
It is not at all distracting to have the bat symbols, Like,
I will discuss other things than track if we go
along long enough.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
But sure, if I if I sit up a little better,
you can see my shirt has Wolverine on it.
Speaker 2 (55:54):
So, oh, we're gonna talk Marvel now. Anyway, we should
probably do this in between episodes.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
No, we shouldn't, because we've got another episode to get
to exactly now. Uh, next time. On Star Trek Universe,
the classic Rewatch Slash. First watch, Fie and I take
on an episode that's only for true gamesters. It's a
war of wits, a battle of Braun. Living life is
a thrall with the Gamesters of Triskelion. Ah, that was okay,
(56:25):
that was okay.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
I mean it's a stretch, but it works.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Bron Braun and Triskell.
Speaker 2 (56:32):
Oh sorry, I forgot the line before that. I have
a short term memory.
Speaker 1 (56:36):
Even better, I had lots of rhymes involving uh foil.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
You should what rhymes with bikini?
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Yeah? I abandoned most of those.
Speaker 2 (56:50):
Uh yeah, fair, I get it, Linguini al genie.
Speaker 1 (56:59):
I don't want to talk ABOUTI or a Fanaccini when
I'm talking about a fucking Cooder getting cooked like a
damn baked potato in a tin foil bikini. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
More on that next time on Star Trek Universe.
Speaker 1 (57:15):
All right, until then, Joel Antrue, Live long and prosper
and of.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
Course, eat a dick, people, Eat a dick.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or malagust dot tv for his web videos. If
you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out
the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.
(57:45):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
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