Star Trek 2x18 - "Obsession" Review

It takes a bloodthirsty captain to kill a bloodthirsty cloud, maman! We're talking all about Jim Kirk's obsession with a vampire cloud creature who killed half his crew 11 years ago! More Moby Dick, maman! Another cloud creature! Another vampire, too. This one is a triple-threat retread, maman!

Episode Reviewed:
Star Trek 2x18 - "Obsession"

Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Effie Ophelders

Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues young Effie's first watch of Star Trek in production order. Guiding her on this journey: Dave, a stalwart fan of almost four decades who rewatches along with her, provides trivia, insights and the occasional excitement-stoking minor spoiler. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
It takes a bloodthirsty captain to kill a bloodthirsty cloud.
Kirk is determined to hunt down a vampire entity he
failed to destroy the past, and we're talking all about
it in this classic watch slash rewatch cast. This is

(00:23):
Star Trek Universe, and we are talking all about Star
Trek two eighteen obsession. Right after these words from withered
and drained crewman. The only thing red they got left
is their shirts. Damn it. Welcome to Star Trek at Universe.

(00:49):
This is the classic watch slash rewatch where I am
rewatching Star Trek in production order or really whatever makes
sense at the time, and enjoying it with my great
friend and Trek newcomer at the op helders who has
never seen it.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
That would be me. I have never seen this no way.
I mean I have seen it once, but you know,
like a week ago, so right, we'll see how much
I remember that.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
You're like, I watched it and I was like shit.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I was. I was like, let's put on the pressure
to get a recording together soon. And then shit happened
in life, as it always does, and now I'm like, yeah,
I watched this, but I don't know. I don't know
if I have enough of the specifics to be like,
oh right, this is what happened in between the cloud
appearing and the cloud dying, because there was fun stuff,

(01:41):
and I'm trying to reread some of it and be like,
oh right, this synopsis is very helpful, thank you. But
I feel like a lot of the charm and the
power of Trek is in the lines and the interactions,
in the character stuff. It feels like it's reductive to
be like, oh right, this happened plot wise, that's not

(02:04):
the most interesting stuff. It's like, no, no, no, there
was the ensign that had a father, and that there's
the whole dynamic there, and Kirk being asked to act
a lot more than usual and fucking McCoy actually questioning
him and having to go through protocol like how do
we deal with this fucking version of Kirk while people

(02:24):
are actively dying as a consequence both of staying here
and of not going to the place where we need
to be. That's that's the central conflict, and then you know,
the gaseous cloud is kind of a bonus. It's just
we need some spectacular effects to keep the kids entertained.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
I guess keep the kids entertained.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
Look, it's a cloud. Isn't that what kids were looking
at back in the day. I presume that's what kids
were looking at back in the day. Look, it's a cloud.
It has no ship, but it kills you.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, it's it's all the toys they had in the sixties.
I don't know, man, I'm I am going out on
a limit this point.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
I will say there are things I like about this episode,
but I don't really like this episode.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
That that yeah, it's it's, it's, it's it's mid in
the in the grand scheme of what we've seen, it's
not it's not outstanding, like because partially because the plot
elements are just kind of replaceable in that sense where
it's like, oh, you didn't you didn't really go beyond

(03:38):
something is sucking the red blood cells whatever, make it
make it a bunch of smoke, So that that it's it's.
It's wise in terms of production and and you know, money,
But other than that, it is the it's it is
just it's, it's, it's, it's all right, But it isn't

(03:59):
one that stuck in my mind for the past week
where I was like, oh god, I am I can't
stop thinking about this conundrum or remember that one moment
when the one guy. I mean, I've also just been
watching a lot of other shows and Peacemaker is it's
taking up more brain space, but generally it's it's, it's, it's, it's.

(04:21):
It is one of those that's just it's all right,
it's it's it's good. It's good, but it's not like
it doesn't actively I'm not laughing at it while I'm
watching it so much like it's it's not one of
the really ones, because there is a lot of interesting
conversation and McCoy AND's bock actually having the.

Speaker 3 (04:42):
The their discussion about what what Kirk is doing and
and Kirk being really and the parallels of course with
with the guilt in the the ensign and in Kirk
for for and and then not taking the shot thing, and.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
There's there's a there's stuff going on, like it is,
there is a lot to like, it's just not everything's
there to love, but right not everything's not. Old ducks
are in a row every week.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Well, you know, I started out with going we this
is clearly Moby Dickens space. This is and I think
the first draft was actually called Boby Dickens Space.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
I saw that and I was like, yeah, of course
that's exactly what it is. It is very much. Oh,
Kirk needs some reasons, some guilt trip to be drawn
in to chase something he couldn't kill last time because
he was young and he he winged and yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
But I'm also like, I'm going, okay, so we've already
done this in Star Trek we had Captain or Commodore
Decker going after the doomsday machine. We've also already had
like Crewman uh KOed by a vampire and the man
Trap from season one, except in this case it was

(06:03):
a salt vampire.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Uh There's a lot of vampire out there in space.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
And I'm fine, I'm fine with that. But we've also
seen gasseous clouds, which absolutely, you know, some of these
shots are some of the shots in the original certainly
looked like very much looked like Metamorphosis, the energy cloud
from Metamorphosis with ZEPHYRM. Cochrane.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
I definitely remember the name zeph from Cochrane, but yeah,
I can't place him to a face, but it's a
funny name that will be stuck in my mind forever.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
This is the guy that invented warp drive and then
he gets down there and the companion was in love
with him, but the companion was also keeping him alive.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
And yeah, yep, ye I know. See. There is always
the description of the guy that I remember and the
name of the guy where I'm like, I don't know
who that is, but it sounds fun. Yeah, sometimes I
have trouble linking is sure, but thank you, thank you
for the heads up.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Now in my head. I also like that this goes
back to a certain feeling of the Genael Coon track,
where it was like there be monsters here, you know,
like space is dark and full of death, and.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
There's lots of empiric and a decent space.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
There's some fucked up love crafty and shit out here
in outer space. So I'm cool with that. Oh, by
the way, while i'm thinking about it, dude, I have
to show you a video someone posted. It's real dumb.
It's an altered clip from this episode on YouTube and
it's been around for like fifteen years. But we'll line

(07:45):
it up and we'll edit it in with your reaction.
But I'll post it also in the show notes so
people can actually see the video portion of it.

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh, no, oh god, it's a good thing. I'm looking
forward to this. It's a solid title, man, solid title.
Let me turn on my my sound. Oh yeah, god.

Speaker 4 (08:18):
Sweet odor like honey, Oh god, that's so fucking childish.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
It's amazing. That is great. That is very stupid and
I love it. Yeank you you are welcome, all right,
So god, yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
I don't even know what I was saying.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Right, this was relevant in some some Okay, here's yeah,
you know Coon Lovecraft and ship.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, I love that. This this there's this creature out
there that apparently can one hundred light years away show
up on a different planet. And Kirk is like, I
know that smell.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
That's impressive. That must be one recognizable stank.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, they keep going sweet, sickly sweet, like honey, honey.
Everyone's saying honey. In the future, they just hate honey.
I guess they're like, oh my god, smell honey. Vampires.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
It could have it could have just been a bunch
of space bees. Technically, why would you, Yeah, there was
a cloud.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
But so they're there are like for me, this episode
kind of hinges on a lot of contrivances.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
Like, yeah, it is like as soon as you mentioned oh,
it showed up on a wildly different planet way far off.
I remembered being like, Okay, so, how the fuck did
it do that? Why didn't it just how how do
we even defeat something like that?

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Like?

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Right, there is a lot of what like, like you said,
there is a contrivance in there where it's like, oh,
it's it's it's too powerful and at the same time
as not being all that fleshed out.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, it bothers me that like one. I mean, they
did say it was one hundred thousand or one hundred
or one hundred thousand light years away. Yeah, Kirk does
not even assume that it might be a different member
of this species. Exactly, it's the same. Motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
It is the same, just this one fucking cloud. It
cannot be another cloud. They would smell differently? Sweet, No,
what are we Yeah? No, I figured, oh, this is
just the thing that exists. But why would there only
be one that is weird?

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah? And why so far apart and they're already talking
about the entire time. Oh, it can change itself. It
knows what we're looking for now, So it's changing what.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, the marble scanner thing that that's vaguely interesting like
they're having there being some shape shifty stuff within the molecules.
That's an interesting given, but they there's not much to
do with that, no exactly, Like they're not exploring that.
They're just using it as an excuse why they can't

(11:09):
just scan the planet and be like, oh, there it is,
while it has like the idea has more potential than
that mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
And then they're going to bring up like so Kirk
is in the middle of his obsession, like you know, oh,
I don't know what it means.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
The title is obsession. I got to be obsessed.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Yeah, And then insignt Garovic shows up and Kirk is
like are you was was he your father? And he's like, yes, sir,
and of course it has something to do with this
creature and.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
The right ensign is always a board for him to
remember their father. That's a given.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Fucking hate this. I hate that idea because I don't
like the surprise of Garrevik showing up for Kirk, Like
I think Kirk if Captain Garovic was everything Kirk thought he.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Was some know what ensign is aboard? Right, Like he
would have seen him on the list and been like,
oh right, that guy not son, I already feel bad
about this before the cloud shows back up.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
See, I think even like if Garrevik is everything Kirk said,
he was meant everything he said was, I would have
thought and they could have had Kirk say this too,
like you say, like he's been watching instant Garevik's career,
he requested him on the ship to help guide him
return the favor of everything Garevic did for him. You know,

(12:36):
he can even say when.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
Show up that late in the episode, he would have
just like you would start with that, you would start with,
oh I am I am trying to guide this young
man because of what his father meant to me and
did for me, And.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
You could like they don't even they could have said
he was on the ship for months and just like
introduced the idea that Kirk thinks it's the same entity
and then realizes I need to go tell Gerovik and
then have MC boy in a turbolift being like, how
has he been doing, you know, since you brought them
on a few months ago.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
That's the kind of tell that story, But there is
no backstory in that sense. There's just oh, he happens
to be here.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, I hate the Hew he just happens to be
here that yeah thing I hate.

Speaker 2 (13:17):
Like, oh, and he just happens to be the one
who comes up the elevator for when they need another
ends and yeah, it's it's that's that's a waste of potential.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, I think it is weak that they made Kirk
ride about everything when he's clearly being a complete tool
and crazy. I think like there was no call for
him to just like abandon the whole idea of going
with those vaccines to that planet or meeting up with

(13:49):
the Yorktown like just to mess around this fucking alien
Like no, dude, like go do the vaccine thing and
then come back like the.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Exactly like this this cloud is probably not going in anywhere,
like it could even come back. But in that sense,
like yeah, do you need to kill it now? It's
it's very revenge driven. It is that moby Dick where
you're like, Okay, this guy is not quite being logical,
and that is, like you said, we've had the doomsday

(14:17):
machine where we already saw that come to its logical
fucking conclusion, namely the moby Dick way of it's not
gonna end well for me, son. But now you're doing
it with Kirk, which is yes, more interesting because we
care about Kirk, but also not more interesting because we
know Kirk can leave the fucking show. He's gonna win
against this fucking cloud, which kind of defeats the purpose

(14:39):
of oh, he's obsessed. But also he catches the fucking
white whale, So sure, now, good job Kirk. Now we
can go back to delivering vaccines a bit late.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Right, But also he's hesitating to, like, just like he
hesitated to shoot the fucking phaser, he's hesitating to like
take the fucking vaccines because this thing might be going
out somewhere and taking out more people. I get like
they did adequately come up with a vague and horrific

(15:14):
enough reason that Kirk is so obsessed, like this thing
killed two hundred people.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, no, it is absolutely like, oh there is trauma there,
Like it makes total sense for Kirk to be that triggered,
but at the same time, it doesn't necessarily make sense
for him to abandon vaccines, and it is It is
very much the complete shift to now we're irrational. Now
we're just here because oh, he killed some of my

(15:42):
crewmen now and I need to stop this because it
will happen again. It is. It is very much, and
it makes sense, like there is enough believability in that
trauma that that past hurt. But yeah, it is. It
is hard to watch because of the the you can't

(16:04):
go with him, like you can't really agree with what
he's doing all the way. It just happens to work out.
But if it had taken half a day longer, like
at some point those vaccines were going to expire.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
And yeah, but it's wonderfully vain.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
Exactly, but many more people would have died.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
And we don't. They don't tell the.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
Vaccines get get there in time. Still, we don't really
know that, dude.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
Well, they just say those people are they just need
the vaccine. They're not. They never said people are.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Dying, right, No, it's it's it's just it's just it's
a it's an influenza vaccine. It's fine. It's just yeah,
it's they might get a fever.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's a facsimile of a ticking clock because they never
tell you how long. They don't. They're like, they're very perishable. Okay,
how long are they is it going to be before
they pair a? Yeah, talk about no.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
One exactly, No one specifies the ticking clock to be like, oh, well,
we need three days to get there and they'll perish
in five, so we have like and it's day two now,
and you're fuckings over like that that would be more
concrete even, but yeah, it's it also doesn't make sense

(17:21):
to do that because at that point you're sort of
linking our max warp speed and fuel to how many
days it takes to get to a certain lie. At
that point, you're doing maths, and you don't want to
do that because you got to keep it vague what
the fucking warp eight means, because otherwise you're always going
to be like, well, why the fuck didn't they go

(17:41):
warp fourteen? Now?

Speaker 1 (17:43):
But you know, the problem for me really is that
like even before he knew, before he knew it was
the same creature, right, which I guess that they were
trying to I mean, that's what they were trying to say,
is that the scent was the communication that I was
the same creature. And that's how Kirk knew he was.

(18:04):
It was intelligent, like this thing was communicating in some
way that it was the same thing. To what end
we don't know, because they never negotiate with it or
communicate with it. They fucking kill it as soon as
they can exactly.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
So that's that's why I'm not even sure I took
it that way, because I was just like, oh, this
is this is a bunch of assumptions. Yeah, and we're
just meant to go with it because I didn't see
the clear large because I assumed like it might be
a species there might they might all smell the vaguely
the same, because he can practically just shape shift into
molecules that smell that way. Does it mean that's the

(18:41):
same cloud. No, but it's very coinky di inky. So,
but it could be a species thing still, where it's like, oh,
we like these fucking particles to announce our oncoming blood sucking.

Speaker 1 (18:58):
Hello, you're about to die and honey quef.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Oh it's so sweet. You'll be like totally frozen in
plays because it's just so pleasant and oh god, it's
so sickly sweet and I cannot shoot.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
Honey queeth, honey queen.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
That is that is what the best queef smell.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Like, Yeah, that's right. Look here, first, I mean I
hope they haven't heard it here first, My god.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
They haven't heard a quief first here, or they haven't
heard about honey being the best smell.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
For weeeth that one specifically.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, okay, you hope they've heard that elsewhere before.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Of course where where I don't know anywhere.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, that's fair enough. Just you know, your big brother
telling you stuff in high school and.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
I don't know about that. Look, this is this is
a podcast for adults.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
I think that's been abundantly clear.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
We are, you know, in SFW, folks, and we are
reviewing a fucking sixty year old show.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
I think that's gonna, you know, deter a lot of
gen z.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Yeah, right, so I kind of feel like if you're
as old as at least as old as we are,
which you're much.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Younger, Yeah, there's like a decade in between, but whatever.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Right, we have a decade between us. But if you
don't care, Yeah, if you haven't heard somewhere or at
the very least imagined that the best kind of quief
would have to be a honey quief.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, I figured in that case, you just haven't been
thinking about quiefs, that's right, which is frankly just you know,
that's that's a waste of lifetime. You could have been
thinking about quefs a whole lot more across the years
you've you've been here. Yeah, you could have been smelling them.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Frankly, like some people might not have been able to.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
But I'm not sure, but like at least half of
the world can produce them, so they could smell their
own possibly possibly, possibly if you're flexible enough, it's easier.
But if you're not, you know, it's still a gaseous cloud.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Like you can smell our hot box, yourself closet or
something exactly.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Like there are ways.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
You're like, oh god, that it wasn't like, honey, what
do I do? Yeah, thankfully that's what we have.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Exactly. A chat GPT will tell you to eat a
lot more, honey if you want your queets to smell
like honey or glue, either or it depends on the
chat dept of the day. It's it's the new models
are even worse. God, we're in an AI bubble. Don't
get me started on this. No, no, my brain was

(21:49):
My brain was very much going there, and I was like, nope, nope,
don't rent about the uselessness of AI on a podcast
about centric we have the gen Z listeners are are clearly.
I just realized, like, if there are going to be
gen Z Star Trek fans, they might be the type

(22:11):
that just gets introduced to a new paramount ship and
then goes back and is like, you know this, this
kneemoy guy, it's not the not not the greatest Spock.
I don't like his acting, and and like that's wild
to me, where like, oh god, oh god, people like
that are going to exist across time. It's not gonna
get it's gonna it's gonna get worse in that sense

(22:33):
where they go back and are like that's not Spock
and I'm like, God, damn it, God damn it. Yeah,
oh well, oh.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Well, can't help those kinds of people.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
No, well we can try. This podcast really is reaching
out a hand to help those people specifically.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah. No, I mean I've seen people say like Quinto
is my Spock, and I'm like, I'm you know, externally,
I'm like that's fine. Yeah, Internally I'm screaming that. You know,
Quinto was not even Quinto's Spock.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Uh sorry, what what does that mean?

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Zachary Quinto played Spock in.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
The No I know, like I remember that, but how
is he not his own Spock, Like, what what.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Do we He's not his own Spot because Nimoy was
his Spock.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Oh in that sense, yeah, of course, Like he is
absolutely drawing, like drawing from Nis. Of course, that's what.
That's the only thing he's got. Like, yeah, he's trying
because Abrams probably gave him some fucking direction Elsewhere there's
a script and stuff.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
I don't want to be hateful about zach Quinto, but
I will say he's just Silar from Heroes. I'm sorry.
Everything he plays he's just fucking Siler.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Fair enough. I haven't seen Heroes. I also don't remember
enough of the Star Trek movie that he plays in,
so I don't.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's just like if you watch Spot,
he's just his Spock is just Siler with pointed ears.
And when you see him in an interview, he is
just Silar without murdering people and taking their superpowers. That's it.
That's my opinion.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah, I'll get to it eventually again because I've seen
the one, but I do definitely remember a lot less repression.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Let's get that way.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, Like, oh yeah, you're you're an emotional fucker man,
and this one is too. But in a very different way.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, and you know what I love. I love the
original series so much and it's like one, of course,
it's like my favorite next to DS nine. They're they're
like tied for different reasons and everything. But the thing
that keeps me from being you know when people are like, oh,
you always side with the original series. Shit, yeah, you're
a purist. I go no, No, Pine is my favorite.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Kirk sorry, fair, that's that's that's a hot tache. I
love it. He is, he is. He very much has
the face and the like, Yeah, he does.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
The Shatner stuff, but he tones it down so much.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yeah, exactly like Chris Pine is just he's a better actor.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
He is.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
So it's it's it's it's it's hard not to like
not remembering all of what I've seen of him. It
is it makes total sense, Yeah, to be like, yeah,
this this is the guy you kind of want to
play him. He's very good at that thing. There is
a reason he is cast in that sort of stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Mine over Pratt old A.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
I'll take all the original people aside from Shatner.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
That's fair, that's fair. Yeah, because that, Yeah, I can't
think of any any other TuS people. I really feel like, oh, no,
they should be recast.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Like no, no, like hmm oh.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
There are many where I'm like, I, oh, if it's
it's gonna be hard for me to see any other face,
you know.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
I kind it's some ways not in every No, it's
hard for me. I might like Anton Yelchin more than
Walter Keening.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
Was for Chekhov Chekhovyah, I don't. I don't remember that
that guy really like I know this this checkof and
and but but he's also not given a lot to
do besides be a goof.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Right right and you know, and.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Which he has the face in the air for I guess,
but I'll have everyone complaining.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Look, here's the thing. I recognize that everyone in the J. J.
Abers movies are going off of previously established characters by
all of these original people. And William Shatner absolutely has
like a place in the pantheon and fucking is wonderful
and does a fantastic job and in uh several of
these most of these episodes. Honestly, and I've always stuck

(26:49):
by the the premise that the the over acting aspect
of Shatner uh is overstated.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
He yeah, people people make fun of it more than
it's actually is bothersome within the context of the show, Tony.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
So far, you haven't gotten season three yet where they really.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Didn't have Absolutely that is absolutely fair. I haven't seen
all of it yet. I'm here to watch it for
the first time.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Ship when they really run out of money in time,
oh boy, nobody.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Though you can ride around money if you have time.
You don't have time, you're fucked on the fronts. If
you're trying to shoot an episode in three days, go
fuck yourself.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
Uh yeah, So I think it's interesting. And going back
to the episode here they you know, I love the
way that McCoy and spot confront Kirk and they all
do it very like diplomatically, like this is within the
rules and this is what we're gonna do. And Kirk

(27:57):
is like, fuck your book, just talking about yeah, and
he's like, all right, you guys have come at this
the right way. I appreciate that. Here's what I didn't
like that he was not as crazy as he was
coming off like. I didn't like that he wound up
being so right about what the creature was and exactly like.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Yeah, that kind of irks. It is irksome when you
you you are setting up the he is obsessed, but
also he has to be right because he's the hero
of the story. That's that's where it rubs two ways,
where you're like, okay, yeah, he's going moby dick on us,
but also he's completely figuring ship out and being smart

(28:40):
about it.

Speaker 1 (28:42):
Here's something I feel like he was.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
He's not exactly being smart about it, but you get
what I mean. He is even right. So this gets
out of that that conversation, like he wiggles through the protocols,
like like who wrote these protocols where he can just
technically be like, okay, I'll take it under advisement, Go
fuck yourself. I'm still in charge.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Right. Well, he proved himself though to some degree. And
then they had this thing where like he tells Scotty,
he tells Scotty try because the thing is in the ship.
The thing is in the fucking ship. He goes try
flushing the radioactive waste into the ventilation system.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Did he Oh my god, that is that is insane.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
See what effect that has? And then they're all like, sorry, Jim,
I was wrong, Like no, you g He's just fucking
pumped radioactive waste into the ventilation system.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yes, the entire everyone should be dead.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
It's about to die.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, Christ's sake. Yeah, oh my god, Like it's everyone
just breathing this ship now apparently.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, there's not enough meat, too much, not enough meat
in this episode to there's not enough meat. To Kirk
being questioned, I mean no, yeah, and it is he's
being reckless as fun. That's what I'm saying exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
That is, that is absolutely the entire point of this episode.
But it has to work out, which makes it less
satisfying because people are trying to call on him, call
him out on that ship, but they are ultimately going
to be proven wrong because he's doing the right thing
or some ship, and it ends up working out, making
Kirk just a lucky bastard, really right, instead of him

(30:27):
being totally proven wrong and fucking up the vaccines and
some soar system dying off. So that's that's that's the
that's that's but you can't go there with the story
because you want Kirk to you know, not be fucked
over for the rest of the show. So it's it's
it's it's a flawed concept to start with in that

(30:50):
in that sense and and the him. I do want
to commend the acting in that scene where he seems
less fucking insane for a minute, Like I do, I
do get the sense that that is still under the
surface in that scene. I still watched it like, oh,
he is containing himself now just to get through the
protocol bullshit and spuck h McCoy out of this and

(31:12):
appear irrational while he could also snap at any minute
and be like fire everything on that. You know, I
did feel it that way. I mean I've seen it once.
But it is an interesting scene because of that way,
because I feel like he's acting his acting, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
So yeah, I don't, man, it's so tough for me
to like look at this thing and just go because like, look,
they've come across this idea that the creature now can
travel between planets, creature can go to warp eight maybe more.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, yeah, insanity, they.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Shoot phasers at it. It just fucking doesn't do anything.
Which oh that's nice for Kirk and instant Garrett because
it wouldn't have done anything. It wouldn't have done it.
Stop blaming yourself, Okay, but you don't know that, like
there's no reason to have believed at the time. Yeah,
you both still fucking froze. No, it wouldn't have mattered,

(32:09):
but you're both still froze. And that's exactly like it.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Would have been. It would have been more logical if
there was something about the smell that paralyzed, because it is.
That would have made it interesting where it's like your
victim is sort of has that moment of shock where
they cannot act, because we sort of see that in
the first scene even with those uh with with the
Red Shirts who don't know what's coming, like, but that

(32:33):
would give it some some semblance of insect like you know, predatory,
there's an intelligence there. Yeah, and now it's just no,
it's it's a magical fucking thing. That's Yeah, it can
shape shift, it's it's particles and it's radiation and just
its entire atomic existence. But also move those atoms across
base really fucking fast. And and also it's invincible practically

(32:56):
because it can just move the atoms out of the
way or something. I don't know how pass work.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
It can change itself on a molecular level, it could
go to warp speed. Why are they so certain that
blowing a fucking crater into this planet and killing all
the wildlife that happened to be in it.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
Yeah, yeah, let's not think about that.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, killed killed this creature. Where they're like, all right,
well we don't even have to check. Let's just go
get those vaccines to the people.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
I'm like, yeah, it is very much. Oh, we lured
him close enough to where he couldn't warp eight out
of here. Do you know how close to light speed?
Like that is fast? Presumably straight up? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Warp one is light speed, so like.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Well that makes that what the fuck is warp eight?

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Then?

Speaker 2 (33:47):
But let's let's without the light speed is like that leaves.
If you can beam out of there, that motherfucker can
go straight up into space before anything blows up. Is
how light speed works? What the fuck? You did not
think this through?

Speaker 1 (34:06):
This whole episode is not throwed, is not thought. No, no,
it is, which is insane when you think, when you
realize that and you look and see how many fucking
drafts there were of this episode?

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Oh no, oh god, do I want to know?

Speaker 1 (34:22):
I didn't count. It was just a lot. Yeah, there's
just way too many.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
But that is like I feel like those drafts were
then probably just there to add stuff, you know, be like, ah,
this isn't enough. Let's bring in an ensign who was
whose father was there so Kirk can feel more guilty
and have him repeat the cycle. And you know, it
is like they have to if some of it feels

(34:47):
like patting.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
It is like when you don't know what you're going
to put into a suit or a stew and you
just keep throwing in good things. Yeah, and then they make.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
A yeah, no, no, it's not how it works. It
just not all the good flavors will come through. Sometimes
you just end up with a lot of fucking honey
just too sweet. It's just too sweet, sickly sweet. Not
to be confused with Sydney sweeny.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
Right, there was some really good dialogue in here.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, I'll say that those those were there.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah I did, dude, I did laugh. I did laugh
when like the the one Instant guy is like in
the hospital bed or whatever in sick bay, and like
Kirk like leans down, like right up into his ear
and he's like, wake up, wake up. Yeah it works,

(35:38):
You're a creep. Why are you whispering in this dude's ear?

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Like if you get closer and you whisper. It'll get
into their brain deeper so they wake up even when
they're unconscious. You know. It was also a medicine.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
There was also a been a laugh really hard at
in shame because instant gavi it goes into his quarters
after Kirk like banished him.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
There for fucking yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Being scared for a second. How dare you well Kirk
was mad at himself. That's exactly exactly so. But Garrevic
like walks into his quarners and just throws himself out
of the bed and like very dramatically throws that arm
over his eyes.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
It is very much telegraphing. I cannot act how to cry,
but I am crying, you know.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Which was weird because I thought he was a really
good actor in the interrogation.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Scene exactly, but that moment I remember being like, Okay,
we're just not We're just pretending to be upset now
in the most dramatic, fucking overacting fashion, where you're like,
how small are the TV screens that this is necessary?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Suddenly he became like a sixteen year old girl in
a nineteen fifties sitcom who just got broken up with
by the guy in the Letterman jacket for.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
The first time. Yes, absolutely, yes.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
It was very specifically that character in that era.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yep, yep, yep, exactly it was. I agree, yeah, that
was that. That's the vibe I got where it's like,
oh my god, this is how we're conveying. Okay that sure, sure,
but yeah there were there were scenes where he was fine,
but as when he had no lines, apparently he had
to resort to that. That's or that's the direction he
was given. It's not, you know, completely fuck over the

(37:25):
guy's memory.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
I did really enjoy Nurse Chapel in this episode. They
didn't give her a lot, They didn't give her a lot,
but they gave her this great bit with their one
Yeah you have to eat, you have to eat, and
then she's like, this is a prescription or whatever. This
is orders from McCoy just says eat and if you don't,
he's got to do this.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
Exactly, just I will for you, bitch, And it's just
there to pressure him, and it's it's delightful. Yeah, captain's orders, bitch,
just go there, medical orders and this it but you know.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
And then McCoy is like, what is this. I thought
you were just going to give food to get of it.
She's like applying psychology exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
I love. But also that's a little just a little
bit of of of world building where it's like a
survey on Signian respiratory diseases where you're like, that could
have been anything, but they had they had to make
something up, and it's it's fun.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah. I have a great quote where boxes that need
your advice and McCoy says that I need a drink.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, I love that one. That one's just forever great, like, yeah,
those but that's that's the good thing about getting those
two in a situation where they have to sort of
work together to talk to Kirk because he's these are
his two best friends, and if they're not on the
same page, Kurk, we'll definitely not listen. So you know,

(38:46):
it's it's but but it is the banter remains good ship.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yeah. I do love McCoy whenever he's around for the
most part. And he says this great line monstrous come
in many forms, you know, the greatest monster of the
mall gym guilt, and I you know, there's part just
going on. Yeah, yeah, it probably just was curt to
be like, no, you know what, I think the shape
shifting warp speed fucking monster that can like kill people

(39:15):
just by like floating around them. I think that's the
worst monster. My guilt isn't gonna kill two hundred fucking
crewmen bone, no, but it's.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Gonna kill the entire fucking planetary system that needs a
vaccine not to die, right for fox sake? I think
the boy has a point there where was like, yes,
it's a horrible monster to deal with, and also it
will make you do worship than the cloud can do. Yeah,
because if they hadn't said, the Cloud would have had
a lot less people to kill.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
That's the vaccine for commytee, for Fox.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Hey, hey, don't judge the orgy planet.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Twenty five colonists have chmytia. The fuck is wrong with you? Bones?

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Oh no, No, it's worse. It's vaccine, So it's not
the isantibot secure the chlamydia. It's very much preventative. They
know they will all get chlamydia from having the orgy.
They've been planning for months and they just want it
to be easier on them.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
I could get off work really, damn That.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
Saturday has been in my calendar for months now. I
need the anti chlamydia vaccied.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
And then my next weekends are are all full. I've
got my nephew's got a birthday.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
I'm just one girl isn't there and oh.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
God, yeah, she's only going to be in town for
this Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Exactly, she's not going to be there for the next
and then and then those two are you know, gonna
marry and and now they can still join in this fiance,
so right, yeah, yeah, this is how planning goes. Presumably
I have no experience.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
I would imagine there's way more talk about like what
what is the what what's the best value you uh,
tarp and or plastic to invest in.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
You make a solid point, yeah yeah, but also you
want to be comfy enough so you're not just gonna,
you know, murder wrap the entire apartment with with plastic,
like you're going to shoot someone. You know, that's not
it not the same. It is very much. How about
a big, big carpet we can roll up after and
just throw the fuck away, something soft? What kind of

(41:33):
bed sheets do we you know, can we can we
afford to burn after that? That sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah, yeah, I was invited to an orgy once.

Speaker 2 (41:42):
That's one more than I've ever been invited to.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
God damn it, dude, Like I was delivering a pizza and.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Oh god, yeah, yeah, it tends to be those stories
like I was. If I had to guess, it would
have been one of those where it's like, oh, you were,
let me guess you were. You were? They the door
naked again, and you're like, oh, there we go again,
and then they invite you in for an orgy.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
No, no, no, So there were people who would open
the door naked to get a reaction and stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
From time I lost whatever, but.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
There No, I went to a door and it was
the person who opened the door was a girl I
knew from school.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Oh's and somehow more awkward we uh.

Speaker 1 (42:27):
She liked me, uh and had tried to get me
into situations before and I've always been in a relationship
or something. Yeah, and I'm not sure I would have anyway,
but exactly. Yeah, yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
You're trying too hard if it comes to, you know,
orgy invitations.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Yeah, I mean she was, she was. She was never
a try hard about it. Yeah, she's she was like
smooth as ship like.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
But but no, she you know, she's clearly interested, you know.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, she opens the door. I mean she literally got
up and locked my door one time. That's not subtle,
and got I was like, I am I in a relationship.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah, this is a bad way to do this, honey.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
And my roommate was in there with us. We were
all watching Buffy or Angel or something, and then he
gets up to go to the bathroom and she like
gets up and locks it. Anyway, Oh my god, So
that was a thing.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh it's forward. I'll give her that. It's cool, but
she clearly monogamous, right.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
But she had, you know, she opened the door and
she had like a little glass of wine, and I
was like, oh, hey, what's up man. She's like hey uh.
And then she she's like we're gonna start probably around eleven,
And I'm like start what? And I got like naive question.
Yeah no, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Like I'm like, I wasn't invited. I didn't get them.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
I don't know. These people fuckers in the background with
those like massive like plastic bags that you used to
like put leaves in for your yard, you know in
the suburbs, like those giant trash.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Bags, and yeah, just making sure nothing gets wet. Yep, Yeah, Okay,
and they're all like holding the know how many squirters
are coming? It's well coming over. I mean, god damn it. Yeah,
there's a fun in there. I'm going to ignore that one.
Sometimes it's yeah, no, that's fair. But it was silent,

(44:30):
and I felt the urge to fill it. Sometimes you
fill the silence.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
But now I was like, oh, uh no, I actually
have to close tonight.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
So you can come later, you know. I was like,
if you darn shicks, Oh man, I can't be here
until like one thirty. Oh you must be spent by then,
all right.

Speaker 1 (44:56):
Right, yeah, oh god. But you know, I did make
her laugh though, because she I was like, are you
sure you what the pizzas? And She's like, what do
you mean? There's a lot of gastric issues in here.
It's like the tomato sauce and you guys got a
bunch of sausage and pepperoni, Like you're gonna get in
the middle of stuff, And yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
That's that's not wise. That's gonna your intestines are gonna
be senators in this this context.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
My goodness, yeah, those will not be honeyqweefs exactly.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
Yeah, I you know, I love me uh a tune
of pizza. But I wouldn't do it that night, you know,
I would just get something very bland, like you're not
gonna put anchovies or no, just just go with the
basic ass margarita and hope you're not lactose intolerant that night,
Like that's that's just the respectable thing to do.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, you gotta be careful.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Exactly, be considerate of your other orgy parties by partners, partners.
God damn it. All right, how did we get here?
Did we mention this was a not suited for work show?
Oh right, we did numerous times because it keeps coming
back to this guy.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah, ah, we are who we are.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
You know exactly. I have another story for you that
will off air.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Okay, all right, back to track. All right, So I
do I love the the uh continual. I love the
continuity of McCoy, even in these old episodes, just hating
the fucking transporter, the crazy way to travel, spreading a

(46:42):
man's molecules all over the universe, like he just hates it,
he hates it, And I love that.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a good detail and it's I
feel like it's something that doesn't come up often. Enough
where I'm like, oh, I I could have forgotten m
M that he specifically has an issue with it because
he also has to use it all the fucking time,
like he's down on that planet. He didn't he didn't
climb the ladder, like what the fuck? Of course, But

(47:08):
but yeah, it is one of those things where I
feel like it has to be slightly more consistently like,
oh god, im nausea's this fucking way of traveling. I
hate it. I hate it and that that, but it is, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
It is.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
It is a good character to have in there where
not everyone is just like this is normal.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah. It's like he's like, Okay, I gotta do this
all the time. I gotta talk, I gotta bitch about
it all the time. But then like you're seeing like
a fucking bomb explode and they're having trouble getting them back,
and McCoy's like, it's my chance to grouse again about
it again. Fucking bullshit.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Spread themology doesn't fucking work. Bullshit, What if we don't
get them back? Right? Yeah, no, very very motivational. If
you're standing there trying to save some people's bodies.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
You blew up an animate or antimatter bowling ball for
Christ's sake.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yep, that is that is how this concludes, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
You know what? I will say, I was somewhat impressed
because they don't make a big deal out of it,
but the fact that Garvik and Kurt go down there
and they're holding this thing that's floating yea, and they're
guiding it and then like they keep making a point
to have Garvik like step away from it, and the
other side of it just keeps floating.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they did nicely. It has that
sort of like you it has the clearly practical effect
wobble where you're like, oh, that's this, this is good ship.
But it does work very well. Yeah, it's it's it's
a little energ but it's it's it's fun. Yeah, there's there.
There's that. The way it moves is nice, the same

(48:44):
way that what else was I there was something else
that moved moved very nicely. I don't I don't know.
I forgot about it. Oh I think I want to know. Yes,
Penis moved very nice. No. No, that the the effects
of the gaseous cloud. It's just reversing footage mostly, But

(49:06):
I that like that slight slightly sped up reversed footage
does give it sort of character where the smoke actually
seems to do something like that. That just it's a
simple trick, but it works just as well as it
did back then where I feel like, yeah, this is
this is a good ship like it's it's it's fairly
easy to reproduce, and some shots don't do it that

(49:26):
well where I'm like, okay, but then do it the
other way and you were, but there there are a
lot of those practical tricks where I'm like, ah, yeah,
this this this works, and that's that's always enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
I read that this was one of the uh this
was I think maybe the only episode that doesn't use
the remastered effects on Netflix, and I was curious if
you actually wound up seeing the original version here.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
I'm I might have. I don't know, because I just
see the version I get to see, and I'm I
just assumed there might not be that much remastering.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
I guess, well, if you if you go to this
wiki here that I'm sending you.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Uh yeah, no, I'm on memory Alpha. I now see
the comparison things at the bottom.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Yeah, which one did you say.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Oh god, this this would have been a good question
if it hadn't been a week ago. Let me think,
uh huh, no, damn it. Did I see the giant
red planet or did I see something generically planet?

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Oh God, isn't that sad? I feel that the remastered
effects have generic Earth looking planets, and there they're just beautiful, gorgeous,
ridiculous colored planets.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Yeah, exactly. It is very much like, oh, these two
you can barely tell apart. But the old ones are
you know, yeah, they're generic planet shapes. But also at
least they they look like they have character, they have
more contrast. That tends to be the case, But I
swear to god, you don't know. I think I saw
the remastered because the clouds look, yeah, look weird, and

(51:13):
I felt they looked weird in the in the version
I saw. Yeah, because if I had seen the actual
puffs of smoke that are, you know, seem to be
the original ones, I think I would have been like, hey,
these are old effects, and also I like them, because
I think I saw the remastered ones and I was
just not that impressed because it is very much the
early two thousand CGI. Whoo, there's a cloud, and I'm like, eh, yeah,

(51:37):
that somehow that felt that feels more dated than the
sixties effects, which is the weird thing every time.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Personally, kind of think they went a little too far
and it looks a little to two thousands.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yeah, and it looks just a little weird for because
it is very much that sort of round, puffy cloud
that makes no sense in the vacuum of space.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
It makes as much sense as you know.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Yeah, I know that's fair. The other clouds don't make
more sense or anything. They just look less perfected in
their three D modeling thing, you know. It's just the
the shininess of it. No, but I feel like I
just I don't remember the red planet. So I think

(52:26):
I just saw the fucking brown cavern and cavernous canyon
ship And yeah, no, I'm I'm pretty sure it's it's
it must have been fixed by Netflix, let's put it
that way.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
That's fine. I'm just curious.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
Actually, yeah, no, I get it. I don't. I don't
think so. But it might also be a country different thing.
Of course, they might just have different like the proper
video sources in the Netherlands, whereas the US Netflix might
have like that one error that someone found.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
So now I think that, Yeah, I think they were
just saying that it was like possibly they just sent
over the wrong the wrong.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
File exactly, it happens, and then they sent over the
right file.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Here.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Who knows. We're not gonna investigate Netflix's interernal data structure
this episode.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Yeah, you wanta do some you want to do some trivia?

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
All right, let's see we've talked about that, like doomsday machine.
The script for this episode bart a page from Herman
Melville's Moby Dick. Director director Ralph Seneski noted, I realized
from day one that it was a transference of the
captain a hab Moby Dick battle from the ocean to
outer space. But the script was more than the novel's

(53:47):
struggle between a man and a big whale. It was
a mystery story, if not a who done it? A
what is it? And it was more beyond that. It
was a deep penetration and to Kirk Psyche, his inner
struggled to overcome guilt for his actions and a passed incident.
I'll give it that at least it is.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, is technically all correct, It just sounds a lot
better than it came out. I guess it doesn't there
those elements. It's just again, there could have been more depth.
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
On Friday, October thirteenth, nineteen sixty seven, Sineski took the
left the set at sundown to observe the Jewish holiday
of Yam Kapoor. Producer John Meredith Lucas took his place
for those few hours, making his day directorial debut, his
first contribution to the series directorially, and he went on
to direct three episodes, the Ultimate Computer Eln of Troyus

(54:40):
and The Enterprise Incident. At least one of those. I love.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
I will get there, and I'm curious to see which
one it is.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah. So this episode reveals more about the biochemistry of
Spock's blood, which is based on copper not iron and
found to be distasteful to the creature. I did enjoy that.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah, it's a fun twist. Yeah, and it's nice that
the I mean, I do wonder why the copper in
the green blood like the coloring. Still, I'm not sure
if that makes sense. Maybe that's bronze that would have worked.
I'm overthinking already. Never mind.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
The episode featured the death of Eddie Pasky's character Leslie,
who was killed by the Cloud creature but reappears in
several subsequent scenes throughout the rest of the series very
much alive.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Oh okay.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
According to Pasky, a scene in the script in which
Leslie is revived by a miracle potion was never filmed.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Oh well, that would have been a shitty scene to add.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
It would have been. However, no such scene exists in
the revised final draft script. Ralph Senesky also confirmed that
he did not shoot the scene. Now, of course not.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
They all said it didn't happen, but it might have
been in an earlier version.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Okay, it might have been in an early version, but
also may have been I think he was Shatner's stunt double,
so he just kind of got to stick around too.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Sure that makes that makes it a lot easier to
keep him employing. Sure, yeah, and that would have been
weird also at least. I mean, when when Memory Alpha
says subsequent scenes, do they mean later episodes in production?
Later in timeline? Because I know some motherfucker have like that,

(56:31):
like has been ordering by you know, star date in
the in the captain's logs.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
But they didn't keep up with star dates and the
original fair enough, Yeah, no one can really. Uh. Jerry
a res or i Res, whose Characterza was killed by
the Cloud creature, also played insign oh Hurla he and Arena,
another Doomed Red Show character. He had his hair dyed
lighter in this appearance to less of the resemblance.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
That's medication, frankly, for a small role to be like, oh,
we've got to dye your hair, man, because people will
recognize you from a past episode. Like I like that
because yeah, if it's a different ensign, great, but if
you're still called Leslie, then that's kind of come on, man,
somebody think of this.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
Mm hm. George de Kay does not appear in this episode.
I I.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yeah, there's there's always someone I feel from the main
cast who just doesn't show up because they don't have
the room in the ensemble to be like you're evolved.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
No, he was. Kay was off shooting the Green Berets,
Like right, right, right, tut, he's gone, he's been gone, gone.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
That's right. I haven't seen him in a while. That's
a shame, I miss. But at least that gives you know,
a bit more space for for Nurse Chapel, for Chekhov
for Scotti even to you know some more, it was good. Yeah,
oh well we'll get.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
It back right. The uh the cloud creature was created
using a smoke making machine hidden behind the rocks the
Planet soundstage set. I did think those. I did think
those looked really good though.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
They did look good. But also you know that that
did come.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
On absolutely like but it did look good. It looked
like it was coming up.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Yeah, yeah, h and it looked good. Especially I think
the reverse because, like I said, like the crawling back
behind there looks better somehow because it's slightly faster, because
if you don't fuck with the regular smoke at all,
it seems less creature more just oh that smoke, you know,

(58:34):
if it goes forward like they they had to have
sped that up to just slightly to get that that
movement in there. That it that makes it less organic
and more intentional.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
Yeah, that's all I've got on this episode.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
That's fair. I think I think we discussed plenty. Yeah,
for what this episode is, we got we got quite
a bit of podcast out of.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
It, absolutely, and we don't want to go too far.
We don't want to get no obsessed.

Speaker 2 (59:01):
That would be a bad I think, or would it
be good because it works out in the end. Maybe
we're right to get obsessed about this episode. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
I think we've talked to me much about quefs in
this episode to worry about things getting worked out in the.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Fair enough, fair enough, fair enough the I do remember
that at the end that also made it into the
quotes section, the little exchange between Spock and Scott and McCoy,
like the pitchforks and pointed ears, Like yeah, it's one

(59:37):
of those jokes where I'm like, this feels it still
feels to me like breaking the fourth wall to like
the Christian people who are upset by his point of ears,
because to me, the whole connection with the devilish shit,
like that's the comparison just rings false every time where
I'm like, I get it, McCoy, but also come on,

(59:59):
shut the fuck up, just just I don't know. It's
it's the there is that clear Christian devil parallel that
he's making that I just don't see in any other
Like it doesn't make sense diegetically. I feel it makes
sense purely based on the looks as they were perceived

(01:00:19):
in the sixties and not necessarily as they are perceived
in that era.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Okay, well I think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
They couldn't have seen coming, I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
But okay, so here's here are things. So at some
point it is revealed by at least in two episodes
that that Satan or some version of the devil was,
with his pointed ears and his horns and the redness
and all that shit, was an alien fucking with us
on earth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
That. I love that. Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
So there's that, so we know now what the devil
looks like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I guess, Okay. Cool.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
I love this quote because it is to so much
of Christianity, like a pearl clutching type of statement, because
you know, they're like Captain, thank Heaven, and Spock is
like pissed a little bit. He's just like, motherfucker, I
did this shit, yeah, says mister Scott. There was no deed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Involved, exactly. This is science, bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
It was my cross circuiting to be that recovered them.
And you know, so you didn't have McCoy. Well, thank
pitchforks and point ofeers. I like it in as much
as like and also.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
It is a sort of sarcastic response to the quote
unquote blasphemy of being like, this is not godly, this
is just I pulled this lever, come on.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Out, And the fact that they got away with that
exchange in the sixties makes me happy.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Absolutely, Like in that sense it is it is not
not necessarily controversial, but like, you know, slightly against a
grain where I'm like, okay, they got away with that,
fair enough, right, it does if you're gonna be like
it like hell was already a fable from the childhood

(01:02:03):
of Pike, like back in the the first episode. I
it feels weird to keep coming back to this. It
is very much a it feels like a crutch for
McCoy to keep making this joke at his ears.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
I don't because well, I mean, and they haven't done
out a ton in Star Trek, but overall, but Pike
actively wrestles with his faith in strange new worlds.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah, I know, like that's it, and that's part of
his like ark, and that's very interesting to actually involve that.
But also that's a bit before this, and it's oh, yeah,
I don't know, it's it's I don't get that vibe
from McCoy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Let's put it that way, Uh, I get the vibe
from McCoy that he enjoys insulting Spock. And if he
can do that by by insinuating that Spock is in
some way Satan or Satanic, I think he's gonna have
fun with that because he's a Southern doctor.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Fair enough. Yeah, that makes yeah, the demonic possession is insulting.
That makes slightly more sense. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Fair Also, there is this idea that you know, even
in our world, there is you know, there's what has
been religious texts, and then there's what has been uh
it's been you know, shifted, it has been translated.

Speaker 5 (01:03:27):
Outside of incorrectly, but Christianity has a Christianity has totally
appropriated so many pagan rituals, so many different cultural things.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
And to furthermore, they have watered it down and they've
made it so mainstream that I mean biblically, the like
Satan or whatever is not you know, pointed ears of
pitchforks anyway. But it's like it's they've turned.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
It like interesting character in that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Right, they've made it such a mainstream it's like a meme.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
The imagery is very well known. But I guess I'm
just not tuned enough with sixties Christianity to have ever
looked at Spock and been like, oh god, demonic ears,
because he's like if you had been red instead of
slightly pale greenish yellowish, Yeah, I could have seen that,
but he just never struck me as old that demonic.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
He was originally supposed to be read too, and.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
That would have been fun. And then then it would
have worked wonderfully and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
He ate through a metal plate. He would put energy
into a metal plate in his stomach.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Oh wow, that's cool. That's that's that's pretty. That's metal.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
On the show anyway, they were.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Gonna let a red pointy your guy be a good
guy and.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Star Trek god damn it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Oh well, but you know it's funny though that you're
talking about that too, because like Star Trek has always
been a mirror of what's going on in America and
and just like that, like you look at the X
Men comics in the eighties and nineties, you know, we
had the Catholic priest character called Nightcrawler who looks like
a demon. He's blue, and he has the point of

(01:05:19):
ears and he literally has a tail.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
And then they in the two thousands they wrote it
to where when he goes away to his little teleportation zone.
He's actually going through a dimension of hell and his
father is a demon.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Oh wow, that's I never got that far into the character.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
But that's that's why they said it. For years. Every
time he would bamp out, every time he would teleport away,
they would smell sulfur. And it's because he's traveling through
a hell dimension and he never realized.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
Yeah, So anyway, that's it. That's it, And I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Let's not get further into X Men and on a
Star Trek podcast, Like, at some point we're so distracted.
We'll first get we are on a podcast, and I'll
be like, oh, I'll walk around the kitchen and forget
that there's a mic still recording. We're just having a chat,
you know. I'll have a smoke outside, I'll walk over there.
Not great for podcasting, So what's up next?

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Help?

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
All?

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Right? Next time? On the Star Trek Universe, Classic watch Slash, Rewatch,
Fie and I Fade to Black as we face the
love crafty and horror of existential dread and take lots
of stimulus while finding a big space of MEBA. We're
talking the immunity syndrome until then, Uh Joel and True

(01:06:44):
live long and prosper and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Of course eat a dick, people, eat a dick?

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
All right? So long?

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Oh right, yeah bye.

Speaker 6 (01:06:53):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe Podcast,
a Stranded Panda production.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
If you'd like to hear more from David C.

Speaker 6 (01:07:00):
Robertson, check out the DC on Screen podcast or malagust
dot tv for his web videos. If you'd like to
hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out the Marvel Cinematic
Universe podcast or listen to his music. Just search for
Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music