Star Trek 2x19 - "The Immunity Syndrome" Review

On this episode of Star Trek Universe, Effie and I find ourselves dark place drained of energy, maman – I’m not talking about seasonal depression – We’re spending some time inside of a giant amoeba as we review Star Trek 2x19, "The Immunity Syndrome"!

Episode Reviewed:
Star Trek 2x19 - "The Immunity Syndrome"

Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Effie Ophelders

Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues young Effie's first watch of Star Trek in production order. Guiding her on this journey: Dave, a stalwart fan of almost four decades who rewatches along with her, provides trivia, insights and the occasional excitement-stoking minor spoiler. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, Fi and I
find ourselves in a dark place, drained of energy. I'm
not talking about seasonal depression. We are spending some time
inside of a giant amoeba as we review Star Trek
two nineteen the Immunity Syndrome. After these incremental power warnings
from our mystery mister Scott's welcome in to Star Trek Universe,

(00:32):
our classic watch slash rewatch. If this is your first
time here, I'm David c. Robertson. I've seen Star Trek
so many times and I am gleeful to be introducing
it in mostly production order or whatever happens to make sense.
We will eventually get to some places where we're not
going to be doing that.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
We've got a tinker around.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
But I love introducing it to my great friend Fi
Op elders here, who's never seen this shit before.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
That is me, I've never seen this shit before, but
I've seen this episode for once, and yeah, thank you
for reminding me of my seasonal depression. I need to
ask my therapists to get me some lamps and shit
for light therapy soon, because my god, it's gonna things
are gonna suck in a month.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
We know this.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's like guys getting cold, doc.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Like, I know you're treating my mental health condition, but
also I need something bright to shine in my face
so I feel less inhuman.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yeah, we're looking forward to that part of the year.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah. Yeah. I actually do really well for maybe the
first well up until Christmas. Up until Christmas, I'm pretty okay,
I'm busy.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Fair, but January is the worst. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Yeah, it's like post Christmas and you got like a
whole other year. I'm like a little kid, I'm like,
damn it, I got a whole other year. No Christmas now, Yeah,
so many.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Sleeps, fair enough, it is. I feel like New Year's
gets me worse where it is very much the oh god,
another year past. What am I going to do for
the next year? Like people want you to plan or
have ambition or some shit.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
I have lots of that.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
But but but I'm not getting it done, God damn it.
And and then January hits where you know you have
to hangover from New Years because you drank too much
because you were definitely overthinking your your year's achievements. And
then I and then ship is still fucking dark and
spring is still months away, and I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Yeah, I feel like I think you and I both
have the ADHD problem, where we have, like we have
so many ambitions and so many plans, we just wind
up throwing it into its own little like metaphorical doom pile.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, yeah, by a new project.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Or what if I instead of writing this novel and
actually finishing more than a chapter. I I just what
if I turn it into a graphic novel? Who cares
that I haven't drawn in a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Et cetera. Yeah, and then you'd abandon that and you
get back to whatever.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Yeah, it's it's maybe I should write it in English
instead of Dutch. Maybe that will help me get through
my writer's block.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
I just I am hopeless sometimes.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Uh huh, Oh I get it.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, yeah, no, I know, I know. You know it
is very much.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Oh. Now, I bought these art supplies. I should probably use.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Them some somewhat more often. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
You read my substack.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
I read your substack. It is very very reassuring to me.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I'll link that in the show notes David C. Robertson
dot substack dot com.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
You can find it right there and read it like
I do.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
I am a role model, oh god yeah, and by.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
That I can be a model for your existence. But
I am quite pudgy, so I have quite a few
roles and.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
We are roles models. Yes, no model, no other.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
By the way, I'm so sorry, I can't like. I'm
so sorry to the Star Trek fans, I haven't asked you.
Have you watched the new Rick and Morty season.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
I haven't finished it.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
I started it season eight. Yeah, it's so fucking good.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
I like, yeah, it had it started off great. But
I also my my little brother was watching it, so
I sort of fell into the second episode before I
saw the first, and it's I gotta finish it. Is
my short take on it, because I haven't seen all
of it. Yeah, but I am so good, very curious.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, sorry to to to briefly explain the dolphining there.
I was talking about how I'm pudgy and I have rolls,
which brought my brain to terry flapps and holdy folds
from Rick and Morty.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Fair enough.

Speaker 3 (04:56):
I will just never get over the suicide spaghetti that
is that's on a for the rest of my fucking life. Anyway,
we are talking about Star trek.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Aren't we yep, yep, we are we sure. Here's the
Memory Alpha synopsis for the immunity Syndrome. After Spock senses
the destruction of the Vulcan manned starship Intrepid, the Enterprise
encounters an enormous, single celled organism that feeds on energy,

(05:25):
which threatens the galaxy as it prepares to reproduce. I
think I had a girlfriend in college.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
No, no, fair enough, fair enough.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
That was that was terrible, absolutely, But was it was
you know, the joke was right there.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
It was. Yeah, it was so you know, I just
it was so close. I just had to reach out,
of course, Yeah, take it.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, that's what you do.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Then, like a million dollar bag had a realty comedy festival, you.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Know, exactly, My goodness, you just have to, yeah, or
you don't and you show some spine, you know, like
the only reason to take that gig is to abuse
the fuck out of the stage and not get paid
and hopefully survive, yeah, and get back to your country safely.
But that is that is the only reason to go there. Yeah,

(06:23):
my god, we are dating this episode.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
But that's beside the point.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Motherfucker Bill Burr I trusted you.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I guess you shouldn't have. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
No, there's a bunch of people who are, you know,
not so surprisingly disappointing, but there are definitely something.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
Oh they didn't They didn't disappoint me. That was the thing.
It was really just Burr. He was the only one
for me that was like, maybe his is I'm sorry.
I was like, oh, come on, dude.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
That's that's fair.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yeah, like, come on, think about this for longer than
two seconds. But most of the ones who said yes
are definitely the people who are like, yeah, we knew
you would.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Do something like this. You don't give a shit, you
have no moral compass. It's fine, no, yeah, yeah, we
already hated you.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
So if you're gonna whine about free speech, might as
well do it in a country where you have no
free speech.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Good luck to you anyways, amievah.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
All right, So I have to say, straight out of
the box, I love this bit or spot since the
senses the destruction of the Intrepid, and he the way
he talks about it, and it plays in a later
Star Trek two, which is cool. The way he talks
about it is not that he senses only the death

(07:45):
scream of the Vulcans aboard the Intrepid, which he does,
and that fucking.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Phrase is already haunting.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yeah, sticks with you. But the way he says this
starship Intrepid died yea, and the way he talks about
it in the episode, as if the Intrepid herself did
not know what was killing her like this gets without
getting deeply into it, this implies that Spock understands that

(08:17):
the computers of these starships are sentient in some way.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Ooh yeah, right, I adn't.

Speaker 3 (08:26):
I hadn't gone that far, but I'm sure they'll get
into that eventually.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, that's that's.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Very interesting because I I was already intrigued by just
the concept of okay, sort of vulcanheive mind idea, you
can absolutely feel when uh, when the part of the
population just fucking disappears more than normal birth rates and
death rates. Hm hmm, Like, oh no, a gap is

(08:51):
missing in my my, my sentience. I guess there's some
something die, something disappeared, and that's that's fucking hurts. That's
already interesting, interesting as far. But then adding on that
he has that sort of with the spaceship and it's
not just a metonym for the people aboard.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
That's really interesting.

Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, and it's not it's not gonna be a thing
that they talk a whole lot about as far as
like episode, episode or anything. But this is not the
only time. This will not be the only time to
Spock connects emotionally and mentally with a machine. Yeah, Like
there is something there that he connects.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
To that is and interesting.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yeah, because much later Trek we'll deal more with synthetic
beings and you know that sort of is it life?
Is it? Is it? Life? Is it property? I guess
it is some really good episodes for sure. But I
like that, I like the way they worded it here,
and uh, while they don't focus on it, I like

(09:55):
that that that it was there, just because I like
thinking about stuff like that and feeling like that is
a sliver of world building that I can kind of
dust off from time to time and think about.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
No, that is very interesting because there is the like
he's been compared to machines and then like being emotionless
so many fucking times. M but for that to flip
around the other way and be like, no, the machines
probably have more emotion too than you think just like Spock,
like there's something more sentient than just mechanical in there.

Speaker 2 (10:30):
That's that's wild to think about.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
That that offers a lot of plot to to explore.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
Yeah, yeah, I dig that. How did you? How did
this episode find you? Overall?

Speaker 3 (10:45):
It's it felt all right, like you there's there's layers
you you sort of alluded to where it might be
more interesting to me that way than just on its surface,
because I there's there's tension. But I also felt like
it wasn't It's not it wasn't one of the grades.
Like I just felt like, Okay, you gotta go, you

(11:06):
gotta go ahead instead of backwards, and this counterintuitive whatever.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Oh it's an amoba, but a really big one.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
And I don't know, it's just sort of one of
those ones that just sort of continues and and I'm
I was along for the ride. But I also wasn't
too impressed with how it tied together, if at all,
with where we I don't know, it just felt like
plot points of like now it's a black hole, now
it's an amba. Now now we're in the score of

(11:35):
the ameba, and I don't know it just but also
it's been again about a week, so I might be
forgetting some really interesting gems in there that I definitely
liked more when I went. I watched it at first
and just didn't retain in my memory.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
I apologize. I'll try to help you out here though.
So this is this is not traditionally been, and this
is why I always encourage people to give things another shot,
because traditionally, you know, probably the first couple of times
I saw this episode, I didn't think much of it. Yeah,
but you know, when I was a kid, so I've

(12:14):
always sort of just went the immunity syndrome. Okay, it's
the fucking amiba. I know, the amiba. But you know,
this time watching it through, I was picking up It's
been years because they usual just skip it, but this
time I'm picking up you know, once again this sort
of old school like almost sort of a Lovecraft kind

(12:36):
of situation where there's there are these crazy horrors in space,
but also this idea that you know, we're just we're
the universe itself is like some sort of system. Yeah,
and maybe we're we're the white blood cells, you know,
right right, Yeah, I like all that kind of shit.

(12:56):
So like, if you know, when I'm a kid, I'm
not going to pay attention to that, but like here
I'm looking at it and going like, you know, they're
already tired.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, yeah, which which you know sets the stakes of
like they need.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
A fucking vacation, like let them rest.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
They cannot so like and the way humans kind of
like that was an interesting way and a poignant way
to start it, because it's like people need to be
given a rest. They can't just work, work, work, work,
and to then have them and they're like, look, we
love exploring the fucking galaxy. This is what we want
to do. We don't have fucking money. We are this

(13:34):
is a utopian society. Our whole thing is we going
around and looking at shit yep, and interacting with things
and people and all sorts of civilizations that we've never
seen before. This is what we live for. This is
our jam. Fuck I'm tired. I really need a rest. Yeah.

(13:54):
And I even loved like apparently this was this was
not in the script. Apparently was improved with Shatner where
he's talking about at the very beginning, where he's talking
about he's like he can't wait to like lay on
and he like stares at the woman the lady that
was bringing it, and then he goes some planet yeah yeah,

(14:16):
and then he does it at the end as well.
And that was one of those where it wasn't you know,
it wasn't gross, It was just kind of funny, like yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah, it seems non specific almost, which is the only
grossness about it, where.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
It's like, yeah, just just someone, Yeah, there's.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Nothing there, but we all need our recreational fun I guess.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
But it's also character he's specifically maligning or anything.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah right, yeah, I mean he did notice the attractive.

Speaker 3 (14:46):
Lady exactly, but that's that's, you know, a thing we
do most people.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Most people will notice.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, So I like that that set up that you know,
they're in a position where I mean existential dread my god,
like you're just tired of the rest.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, just just stop somewhere.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, and then all of a sudden, a crew of
Vulcans suddenly die in a star system with it, and
they even go out of the way to be like, dude,
this star is like a certain you know, it's whatever power,
Like there's billions of lives and Chekhov's all dead.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, which is just this It is huge steaks and
at the same time it is almost inconceivable, like then
the numbers are so big that you have trouble trying
to actually conceptualize it as a as a person. But
that is that is of course also the the fun

(15:51):
about it, where it's like, no, it is. It is
a absolutely humongous threat and these are distances and sizes
and numbers of people that you can barely comprehend.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, but just terrible and horrific. Yeah, and just oh
dear god.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, it is very much. It should almost be more
startling if they weren't so fucking tired.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
I guess, yeah, it is very much.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Oh no, if that can happen there, like we're everything
is fucked like yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
And then like I like how weird it is. I
like how like old school I love all pulp, like
sci fi pulp. It is like that's the fun. Yeah,
there's there's like some giant monster out here just eating
fucking solar systems and killing all billions of people and
what the hell is this? And then the idea that
it's just big single cell organism just fucking around, like

(16:43):
coming around, just.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
Being too fucking big.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
Yeah, and just like the cloud monster from last week
that I also referred to as like love crafty end.
I remember it is it is, it is about to procreate,
It is about to.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Like it is about to get fucking scarier.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, uh yeah, that's fun. I wish they weren't so
close together.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
That's fair, that's fair. But yeah, no, that that frame
is there. It just sometimes it strikes me as slightly uh,
too simplistic, because like, yeah, this would be more impactful
if you were in that actual situation. But sometimes I
just don't buy it beyond oh they wanted a parallel

(17:29):
with white blood cells, and I'm like, yeah, that feels
like a very one to one sort of analogy you've written,
and it's not the most interesting metaphor to me at
that point.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
But of course there is there is.

Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, there's there's more to it than than the sort
of explanation they give quite explicitly, and that's that's that's
where shit gets gets more interesting generally. But it starts
off very much with Okay, it's just a black hole.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
There's darkness. There's just no light. There's just there's just.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
That black thing with an outline so you can actually
see it on your TV screen. Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
That's such the most inventive part.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
I will say this is one of the episodes that
I think the remastering dulled it absolutely bit too much.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Absolutely you've yeah, having been shown by you the original
so much more contrast, so much more color, so much
more life. It is absolutely there are not not every
bit of effects, but like some of them, it makes
such a fucking difference. Even this black hole, like there
is much more clearly, a bunch more stars around it,

(18:42):
and it's not just black within more black, which yeah,
is kind of how space works. But also, come on, man,
just having that that bit of overexposure where you sort
of see the the night sky grayish blueish instead of
pure black.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Helps with the point of like that zone of darkness
is fucking freaky, man.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
Yeah. Yeah, which I honestly on on the zone of
darkness on them seeing the zone of darkness in the background.
I thought both versions did a really good job with that,
because it's just it does feel like something you might
see it like when you see like a black owned
space because you've got the corona and you're like, oh god,
there's that. Yeah, yeah, but also it's a there's.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
It's the shape is not that, so it's it's kind
of different, but it's I don't know, it is purely
a thing I could say in hindsight, because you know,
seeing them side by side, I'm.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Like, oh, I think I prefer that one. But it's not.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
That's not the biggest difference, Like there is there's later
stuff that's much much more relevant that comparison.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Like once they're inside the Amiba itself, because the black
zone is just the protective bubbled around the Amiba, like
once they get into the Meba, and it's one of
those things where like the original effects played really way
heavier into the psychedelia of the sixties and the fact
that they were like in the episode, they have been

(20:06):
ensconced in this darkness. They are enveloped in complete black
leak nothingness, and it's that is as it would as
the existential nothingness in our lives drains us of energy.
You know. Of course in the sixties they would end.
Some people now would say time to do some fucking drugs. Yeah,

(20:30):
so you've got McCoy. You've got McCoy like making sure
they keep awake and they keep going by just jacking
them up full of stimulants, just fucking stimulant stimulant stimulus. Yeah,
to the point where he's just like, I can't keep
giving you this shit.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
No exactly. At some point your heart will give out.
This makes no sense anymore.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
But I think that's an interesting I think that's an
interesting thing for the because it feels like they're just
like trying to comment on the or make a comment
that no, no, it's because our reality sucks, and like
the system sucks. Sure, fucking yeah, that's why we do
the fucking drugs. Yea.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
His escape is and like we are draped and trying
to get through, and and that is go around it.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
You gotta go through.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
And that is a layer that I sort of went
by me on on first viewing, where it was just like,
I'm not sure. But again, even even considering, oh, it's
a black void that is essentially a metaphor for the
black void in your life, like yeah, okay, fine, motherfucker.

(21:45):
Yeah yeah point. So I think at that point I
also stopped sort of overthinking it because then it was
a giant fucking am ev and I'm like, I'm sure
that's that's something analogy it is, and and like looking
at those screenshots, I was absolutely like, ah, I'm like

(22:06):
the paint splatter lava lampy sort of. I can just
see it move just from the still still image, and
that's that's a darn shame, because yeah, in the in
the remaster version, it very much look like we're just
going through plasm like a blob of sort of yeah, nothingness,

(22:28):
and it's it's yeah, it is a very different vibe
and it changes I think the the impact quite a
bit and also makes I think. I think it impacted
my viewing in the sense that I didn't necessarily therefore
make the connection with with psychedelics with drugs and stimulants

(22:48):
and like, oh wait, there's a parallel there. Like that
one went sort of by me because I was like, oh,
we're just in some sort of giant biology looking around, uh,
an organism that has barely any organs or tendrils. This
is just just the one cell, and the cell is
pretty damn empty.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, And they did make those on cells, so and
they were like moving them around, so it looked like
it was like pulsating.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
And yeah, yeah, but fucking great.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
I think it's I do like the idea that they
were and I don't have anything on hand to say like, yeah,
this was exactly what we were coming for. But I
like the idea anyway that they were kind of being like, hey, look,
this is the existential void that we were dealing with
and that people are dealing with in real life, since
y'all are so concerned about drugs and look at where

(23:38):
they're cranking up through the stimulus so they can get
through it. But then you also have the cautionary tale
aspect of it. McCoy is saying, I can't keep doing this,
You can't keep doing this. We have to make it
out of here. Yeah, you gotta stop this exactly.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
But it's also the getting through it and coming out
the other side, Like there is also the sort of, ah,
you got to do this in your early twenties and
then you'll get over it by the time you're thirty,
you know that sort of thing, because.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
There is a way, true, there is there is.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
A like, eventually you'll find another way of coping and
and actually rest and prioritize your self care. And in
the context of this this void that you know might
otherwise have sucked the life out of you.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
And I'm sitting here going okay. So in the metaphor
is is spock in the shuttlecraft therapy is science?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Is this is this? You know? Is this a serotonin
reuptake and hbitor Like what are we?

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Yeah, that's that's that's fair because it is like that.
That's that's why I didn't look too deeply in it,
because the metaphor doesn't quite quite there's.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
We started a spiral and we can't hear what the
therapist is saying that trying to hear the words are like,
I don't know what he's saying. I think he's saying that,
I don't know, hit me up with some of those drugs.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Exactly, I'm dissociating someone.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
Someone give me some more, get me, get me back
in here with the meds.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
But that's that's I think the.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Trouble with the the parallels the analogy is because it's
both outside the ship and inside the ship, where it
is Okay, the stimulants are drugs, but also the MEBA
that's that's some fucking drugs, Like how are we We're
trying desperately to escape the void, but also the void
is no longer avoid because at some point the void
has just become this being that's just fucking existing and

(25:39):
not really.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
I mean, it's minding its own business.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
There is also the possibility that they're all writers were
just on drugs.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
And they're like, what we're gonna do, man, this is
gonna be awesome. Yeah, it's like the void. Man, it's
like existentialism, you know. Man, Like Kirk's gotta get all
fucked up. You gotta get him some cocaine, man.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
And then like they're like, oh, well, we need a
third act. He's like, I don't know, man.

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Like a big old, fucking like like really small organism,
but like really big.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
And colorful. Let's let's give it some colors.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Just the universe is like a giant body.

Speaker 2 (26:22):
Mane pretty much like it does. It does.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
It does kind of have that vibe where it is
the I'm not.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
Sure you thought this through. I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
You just wanted to have have have have this drug
shit all over the place.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, it's not necessarily you know, one to one, it
doesn't have to.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
Be a no, no no, it's it doesn't have to
be entirely clean, because that would also be very fucking boring.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
At that point, you're just being like.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
Yeah, that that would kind of get back to the
moby Dick problem of like, oh, that's the will and
that's a hab and we're just playing it up like
it doesn't have to be not everything should be a
one to one, like that's the Vietnam War because at
that point, you know, you run out of stories at
some point. So but there's just a couple of concepts

(27:17):
that that contrast, and I don't know, it's it just
feels kind of simplistic to like figure out like, oh, no,
we everything is inverse, so it's a way to find out, Oh,
you shouldn't resist, you should go deeper.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
But then.

Speaker 3 (27:37):
That also only gives us the opportunity to destroy it
and not really come out the other side. So yeah,
it's like physics wise, it makes zero fucking sense and
you shouldn't ignore all of it.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
But it is no man, you gotta go, man, you
gotta go.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Sorry, I'm already laughing.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Go ahead, you gotta go deeper. Man, you gotta go
deeper for because you gotta.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
I gotta get so fucking high that I'm suddenly sober.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
And oh my god.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, now man, I am like I'm so connected to
all of the like I am the universe. The universe
is me, and I can see everything. I can see
backwards and forwards in time. I'm definitely not high anymore.
I'm so sober. I can see through time and space.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
It is get back to go forward.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, yeah, there.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
Is only forward, but yet I experienced backwards and forwards
as the same thing.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Sometimes it feels like that.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Man, I really gotta I'm glad I'm not longer smoking weed.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
My goodness, this this.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I feel like, Yeah, if if we said something positive
about Donald Trump, we would be on the Joe Rogan
podcast right now.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
I mean yeah that at that at that point we
would be allowed.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
I think so it.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
Would be great for our viewership, but also terrible for
our souls.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
And lungs. Lungs and souls.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, they've always got those cigars.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Oh yeah, I'm just smoking tobacco, my ass, Alex. It
would be fun to be on Rogan just to have
the flat Earth conversation with his dumbass co not co hos,
but like the sidekick, to just be like, really, motherfucker, really,

(29:28):
I'm not high enough to get this.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, I don't. I don't think any of it would
be fun.

Speaker 3 (29:34):
No, No, it would be horrible, and I I would
be talking to a wall of libertarian ass fascism, trying
to pretend not.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
To be absolutely horrific as a human being. But I
guess that's what people are looking for in their.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Entertainment these days. We're in the wrong branch, man. I know.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
This episode was written by Robert Off.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
Do I know that name from anything?

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I don't think so that's why. Yeah, he would contribute
to the Next Generation as well.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Okay, he's stuck home.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Soil and conspiracy. Conspiracy is one of my favorites.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Is that one we've seen now, I'm just throwing.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
This is next generation?

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Okay, cool, cool, Sorry.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
But he pitched this episode as a cost saver apparently.
Oh how because, oh, because this was incredibly cheap to make.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Fair enough.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
It is a bunch of screens like layer.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
It's cheaper than there's no guest star you're right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
You don't have to build a fucking planet.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Yeah, it's all aboard the ship. Very very aristotelean, I guess.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
Mm hmmm. Told Starlog his Star Trek, focusing on a
colossal Amiba that threatens to destroy the galaxy, was actually
a budget saver for the series. Sabarov worked primarily with
Gene Kuhn, the late producer whom he whom the writer
classifies as quote a very under remembered man who was
one of the major creative forces of Star Trek. Not

(31:12):
under remembered on this podcast.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
No, No, that's a name I will probably never forget.
I won't always be able to link him with the
right things, but I'll remember the goddamn name.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Gene explained that they had run out of money for
the guest stars whoops, but they still had a special
FX budget. He asked me to write a story that
wouldn't require a guest star. The opticle wasn't expensive to make.
A guest star would have cost them much.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
More fair enough.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Now, Apparently, his original pitch did have a guest star,
and leaned heavily into the idea of the universe as
its own singular entity, sort of thing of which we
were tiny, tiny beings inside of it. Like it featured

(32:04):
a guest star, a guest cast member named Loretta, and
it said Loretta believes that the alien body is a
giant virus spawned by spontaneous generation in a force field
and a sea of hydrogen atoms. But a virus can
only function inside of a living cell. Kirk is stunned
by the concept of the universe itself is a cell,

(32:26):
the Solar System, star clusters, even galaxies being only bundled
of greater matter arranged toward the construction of a super organism.
They Kirk and Loretta reflect that it would be indeed
ironic at the ultimate function and historical purpose of man's
evolution were to serve the function of antibodies to the universe,
a line of defense against viral bodies seeking to make

(32:48):
the universe sneeze. Well put raisin detra, sorry and ignominious,
Raisin detra. Indeed, I can't say that word.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
If you want about it.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
I did. I even looked it up, and I've just
I know what it is. I just I can't say it.

Speaker 3 (33:09):
You're American, that's fine, it's it's it. Fuck me, it's
a reason, and we'll we'll.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Maybe I'm born with it.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Maybe it's maybe.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Uh but yeah, uh so then uh see. But it
was a sorry, anonymousnominous. I can't say it by Kirk standards,
And it says the most noble one by Loretta is
she wonders who the universe is?

Speaker 2 (33:42):
You didn't need the guests necessarily.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
No, no, no, no, So anyway, that's that's interesting to me, dude.
I loved this conversation between Spock and McCoy that you
find it easier to understand the death of one than
the death of a million. You speak of the objective
hardness of the vulcan heart, yet how little room there
seems to be in yours.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah, that's still a solid point, like it resonates.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, and the suffer the death of the name raise Bach.
You wouldn't wish that, honest, would you. It might have
rendered your history a bit less bloody.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's all great, that's all great.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
That is that's just solid stuff because that point is
still relevant where it is very much the well, if
we don't see the horrific genocide, we don't really care
about it. But also we can ignore it because we
don't want to see it. If we don't know someone
who is queer or trans or non binary and being

(34:39):
persecuted for that, then we don't really give a shit
because we have no real concept of what that experience
is like, what those.

Speaker 2 (34:45):
People are like.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
If we don't like it is very much a reason
why I, oh, my best friend is black rings so
false all the time, because if he was your best friend.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
You would perceive his struggle differently.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
And it is sad that we are as humans sort
of doomed to be so limited in that where it
is very hard for many, many, many, many many people
to actually empathize with someone they don't see right in
front of their fucking face, to be like, oh, there
is a group. There are multitudes of people that I

(35:27):
that I don't know, that I but I should care about,
Like it is still a terrible loss for everyone they
know to be in Gaza or the Congo or wherever
else currently, there are probably more conflicts than I can
keep track of.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
So it's it's, it's, it's.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
It is a very poignant moment for spot to to
point out that we are very good at ignoring large
numbers because they're just not concrete. They're too abstract for us.
We cannot we can barely conceive of a hundred people
in reality. So if you are like, oh, one hundred
people just fucking were shot, it's it's not the same as, oh,

(36:07):
that guy you saw yesterday in the store, that guy
you talked to for two minutes, that guy got shot,
And that's that's just a.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Failure of our our UH, our our.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
Empathy, our humanity in a in a in a sense,
if we are not alert to UH, to that weakness,
to that sort of blind spot.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
I think it's probably it seems like it would be
an evolutionary necessary blonde spot though to an extent for
our own mental well being.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, at least exactly. It is very understandable. It has
some sort of practical application, but the let's be real,
the mental like retaining your sanity aspect is only relevant
for the past decades because we didn't used to be
able to see all of the horrific shit happening across

(36:58):
the world, let alone is viscerally as in the social
media age, so that that I'm not sure that's evolution necessarily.
I think that's just compartmentalization that we've always been capable of,
but have uh sort of grown to rely on heavily
to survive in today's society.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
But it's cost us. You see, there's a certain level
of reaction and eventual callousness based on technology. Like you know,
you think about how America reacted to the Vietnam War
and that was the first time we had it on
TV like the war was in our was in our

(37:42):
living room.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
That was shocked.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, Like before that, we had like the little newsreels
that were.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Like the World War, this iss and only the good ship.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
No one's dying. So you're fine, here's Johnny Patriot with
his exactly and it's and and that was.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
But but like I assume you were, you were headed there.
We we've got desensitized to an extent because now everything
is in our fucking hands instead of our living room,
and it is so much more gruesome to be that
up close with all of the war and violence happening.
It is it has somehow become less shocking that like,

(38:24):
oh fuck, we're contributing to that. We're doing that as
a country, as a nation, as a people. And that's
a sad fucking reality because it's some people have become
so desensitized they actively do not care about the human
loss of life as long as they don't look like
me and aren't my neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
And and I think there's a lot of people who
you know, who see all the not only just the atrocities.
But you know, it's like a bad mix of like
old faith and a desperate need to retain what they
consider their their lifestyle and who they are, and they

(39:08):
are being forced to see suffering from an amount of
people they were not really ever meant to see that from. Sure,
so they're like the ones they can they will grab
hold of and say, these people are a threat to
me because by making me acknowledge, you know, what they're

(39:30):
going through, they're somehow diminishing what I'm going through.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, you know, it's.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Just like this like becomes a violent.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Psychology in there.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's it's and.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
It is because at the same time, like, yeah, our
our capacity to empathize has been far exceeded by the
atrocities we get to witness, sadly, but also our capacity
for committing atrocities has increased enormously over the over the
past one hundred years alone. Like so it's it's in

(40:03):
a way, uh, like like war has never been fun
or anything, but at least you got to like you
you you people were slating each other's throats with knives
and shit, and that was horrible and horrifying, But it
wasn't We're dropping a fucking bomb from thousands of miles away.
We're shooting women and children just just up close, like

(40:24):
and it's so much faster, so much like there's there's
less if you like, committing violence on someone is harder
to do with your fists or your knives than it
would be with a gun.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Like pulling the trigger.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
And boom, it's happened already and you can't really stop
and think about that is easier quote unquote. Still horrifying
to many people, and it should be, but it's not
to generals pushing the button way way far off. You know,
it's not the people giving those commands. So it's it's
it's it's we And and at the same time we

(41:00):
shouldn't be too desensitized to think to hold those people accountable,
the people in charge who are just blowing up boats
full of fishermen.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
And you know, there's there's.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Because at the same time, we're capable of, you know,
feigning humongous outcry at the death of one person, even
recently in the US. So this is and but that
somehow seems to you know, overtake the death of so
many others because we just happened to know this person

(41:35):
slightly better and then mythologize them a lot, like they're
you know, fascists kind of fascists, so they'll they'll always
use the excuse to do what they already wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, and you know, the regardless of you know, what
party we're dealing with, especially in the US, I'm sure
somewhere else is everywhere else is where as well. But
you know, these big political parties, they have lots of
money and they can use anybody for whatever they want
to and distract us with uh, all sorts of stuff.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah, there's lots of distractions as I don't think that,
I think there is, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
The distraction is everything surrounding, Yeah, exactly on the same page,
just making sure. Yeah, no, I figured, but that is yeah, absolutely,
we're just we're trying to and and besides distraction, there
is just outright lines of course, like we're there's misinformation
and there's disinformation, and both of those make it even

(42:38):
harder to actually give a shit about what is happening
out there in the world, because you at some point
we barely know if the murder we see being committed
on fucking Twitter live streams is.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Even real anymore.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
Like yeah, and Charlie Kirk's case, we were pretty damn
sure because you know, it hit the news very fast
after that.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
But it's not like like the AI bullshit and the like.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
At some point that that line between media effects and
oh no, this is not fiction sort of presented but
the same the same effects, the same AI visual bullshit.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
It's it's it's.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Fucking with us already, like we're but that that that
damages our capacity to, I think, retain that humanity and
in in how we interact with the rest of the world,
especially when we are so divided and so easily manipulated
into already dehumanizing other people far away that were well

(43:39):
they're not they're not me and my friends. It is
it is the same dynamic of oh oh, when you
said you were going to get rid of all the immigrants,
I didn't think you meant my great guy nighbor, who
is a just a one of the good ones, you know, right,
We forget that very easily, that that people are more

(44:00):
than than one thing and more than and that behind
numbers there is a bunch of lives and a bunch
of people they loved and experiences they had, and the
mourning that other people.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Will have to do for for their their loss.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, anyway.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
The state of politics in the world is fucking awful,
and that's why we're trying to escape into Trek. We've
got to go through the politics back into.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Well look, I mean, hey, you know, well you say that,
but clearly, yeah, this dialogue from Spock, and as you know, yeah,
that's where we started catapult to that, Like there's something
in Star Trek fundamentally.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
There's something very true in that exchange.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah, that has always been very political and yeah, something
about the human condition exactly.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
And the character of Spock is great for getting that
sort of perspective on our bloody history because he's not
a part of it, so he can externally see like.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, half part of it.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
I mean half, that's fair enough, fair enough.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
But he's but he but most of the time when
he's talking about history of humanity is talking about sixties
and back and not twenty first century and back, because
you know, practically practically kind of hard meaning it's it's
it's it's more and more distant from him. So he
but he is a good observer in that sense of

(45:29):
of he can say the things that we might not
like to hear, and that that makes him both more
admirable and very confrontational for the characters around him, but
he's usually right because they do have a fucked up
history and it is very much a The capacity for

(45:49):
violence is directly linked to the capacity for dehumanizing people
and ignoring that they too are people with loved ones,
with a life, with.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
Dreams that you could have gotten to know.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
And whether or not that's one person or you know
or millions you don't, that's that doesn't make them any
less of another subjective reality that you are flushing down
the toilet. But yeah, it's it's good ship and I'm
glad that it does sort of relate still to that

(46:24):
that to very many many modern dynamics of increasing Nazism.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Jesus, Yeah, yeah, I love this little bit vulcan dignity.
How can I grant you what I don't understand and
spots is that employ one of your own superstitions, wish
me luck. And I love that he did wish him
luck when the doors but it had come back and

(46:54):
tell doctor McCoy he should have wished me luck.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Yeah, which was fun. Yeah, because he know I get
old rings true. But it is that very human moment
where they both indeed act as if knowing they may
never well they probably won't ever see each other again,
and that is that's a bit of connection that is
just delightful to witness in this dynamic that is usually

(47:19):
very at virtual or contrarian or you know, they if
they're at each other's throat. It's it's nice to have
them be like less dickish for once.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, And it is like it's fun to kind of
pull out just for a second and go like they
are adversarial but like their friends. Yeah, the respect the
fuck out of each other. And like, you know, McCoy
likes to get a little uppitty and you know, talking
down a spot, and the Spock is always very quick to.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
Be like, hey, I'm quick witted.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
I know.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
He's like, by the way, I know you're a bleeding heart, doc.
Let me bring up your bloody history as a speech.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Ye yeah, fuck you.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
He will just as easily roast all of humanity just
to get under mcoy's skin. But I do like that
moment because it is like Spock is showing a sort
of vulnerability there by going like, okay, if you don't
know what my dignity is a volcan blah la la.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Then one of.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
The superstitions we both know, wish me luck, Like he
is not supposed to care of fuck, but like give
a shit about that.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Like he does not quite.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Admit to needing to hear that and enjoying that, But
it is a like an invitation to be more friendly,
to be to connect on that more emotional level that
he usually hides.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
It is very much one of his last.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Words that he then with his friend, spends saying like,
I could use this right now. I want to hear
this for just you know, there is something under.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
That line that's just just very sweet.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Yeah, And the fact that he does say it also
means a lot coming from McCoy, even if you can't
bring himself to fucking say it to his face.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
It's it's neat, it's it's just lovely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
But also like Spock walks away quickly enough that he's
just like, I'm not gonna stand here and expect you
to say this to me exactly.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
I will turn around and make it easy on you. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
Yeah, I'm not going to wait in silence.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
That would be awkward. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Nice, nice little moment. Shut up, Spock, We're rescuing you. Well,
Thank you, captain McCay. Yeah, got to stick it to him.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
Yeah, they're fun.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
They're fun because they that's that's the fun where it
is like, oh, they can still make little jabs at
each other, but also clearly in a scenario where it's
so evident that they care, that they that they you
know that it's not actually hostile.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
It's just oh, yeah, you.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
Know, we kind of rub elbows and we're we're good,
but we got we've got to make jokes at each
other's expense most of the time.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
That's that's fine, you know.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
Mm hmm, all right, some more trivia here. Robert Sabaroff's
outline on August fourteenth, nineteen sixty seven describes the creature
as a giant virus living in a cell that consists
of our universe, and the illness affecting everyone was attributed
to a reversal of the Enterprise's polarity, which did happen

(50:22):
in the episode that which survives. The script ended simply
with Kirk ordering the Enterprise to proceed to Starbase six.
The tag bit of Kirk look and the aforementioned young
woman repeating his line from the teaser about hoping to
get some rest on a Lovely Planet was improvised by
Shatner and Pevney on the set. Yeah, that makes sense,
I mentioned that earlier.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Yeah, I do enjoy like because a virus isn't quite
the same as a bacteria, so I'm not sure if
that is a cell like it's smaller usually. But now
I'm just dragging in biology, and I'm not a biologist,
so I should shut the fuck.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
I am not either. Shatner consistently mispronounced Kyle's name is Cowell, right,
of course. When recording his citations for the crew, Kirk
refers to doctor McCoy by his rank of lieutenant commander.
This is the only time in the series McCoy's rank
is referenced, although he wears the appropriate rank insignia until

(51:19):
tas in which he wears commanders stripes.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Goddamn Animators.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
This is the last episode directed by Joseph Pevney, who,
along with Mark Daniels, holds the record for helping the
most number of episodes for the series. We Are Spock
explains in this episode that Vulcan was never conquered. However,
in the Conscience of the King, which we have seen,
McCoy says, now I know why you were conquered in

(51:48):
response to Spock's refusal to drink alcohol. This might be
explained by Vulcan never having been conquered, but one or
more of their colonies having been annexed by another power
at some point. I'll always took it as McCoy being
a dick, sure, and messing with Spock about hyeah, y'all
were conquered, y'all now part of the Federation, you know,

(52:12):
or something of that.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
I think I took it that way too.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
As far as like retroactively that that is, like I
think when they wrote The Conscious of the King, their
intention was to say that Falcon had been conquered by America.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
Probably probably yeah, or Earth, yeah, exactly, like the Federation
conquered them like that sort of But that makes zero
sense in universe, so it would be bullshit now.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
But that was such an early episode exactly early days,
early days.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Right right right, and and pre let's say the more
peaceful approach that that makes more sense for the Federation
to to, you know, sort of engage in. Because I
heard that line about never and and I was thinking, like, okay, Romulans.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
But that's like those.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Are sort of separate the offshoots and so so I'm
it's it's interesting to sort of piece together that sort
of history that we know very little about.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
But yeah, it makes sense that it's that when you
say Vulcan was.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Never conquered, you absolutely mean the planet they originated from,
and then ignore everything else outside of the main pat
that they also spread to.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Mm hmm. Well, you know, the Romulins were Vulcans who
disagreed with you know, uh, the teachings of Surak and
thought emotions were key to life and and society.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
So they so they were healthier, except they turn really
fucking violent because fucking Vulcans.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Some of them. Yeah. Uh, all right, well that's all
I've got on this episode. What have you? How do
you feel?

Speaker 3 (53:58):
I feel existential dread mostly, but that's because I, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
You haven't had enough stimulants.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Exactly, I haven't had enough stimulants. My body is about
ready to piss out all.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
The caffeine again that I that I drank this morning,
and uh, clearly, clearly I should take my second dose
of ADHD meds. But no, I should have brought in
so much fucking real life ship. Uh, and that that
that brought on the dread the black hole of it
all I did. I did at one point think of

(54:34):
I think a video or podcast or something with Neilder
gress Tyson where he discusses the theoretical possibility of our
universe being contained within a black hole, which was very
interesting in mind fucky.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
I enjoyed that kind of.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Ship so in that sense that there's a there's a
parallel there with reality again of I will do that,
and because because it is that that idea of like, oh,
what if the entire thing is one cell, if there's
something containing the the thing, so that that relates, I
guess I figured I should should throw that in. I'll

(55:09):
I'll send it to you. But other than that, thinking
about it, it was a trippy episode.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
I guess it's just took its time.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I've been thinking about what if this was this right
now is all happening in the lot, my life flashing
before my eyes, and this has already all happened.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
Fair enough, but it would be a pretty boring biopic
if you're just going moment by moment by moment. But
I've I've sure everyone's had that thought. I think that's
just no is that is that a thought experiment? You
think we just had Is that just us someone someone riding?

Speaker 1 (55:46):
And I don't think it can be two different things? Okay,
it could be that, I don't think. I definitely don't
think that we were the first to have that idea. No,
but I absolutely because I've talked to too many people
about stuff like this and they look at me like
I'm fucking crazy.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Okay, those people are just boring, fair enough.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Those people are majority.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
I think, Yeah, sadly, Yeah, I'm guessing those people are neurotypical.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah. No, not sadly, because those fucking people can function
and they are happy in their lives.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
I mean, they can function, but are they happy in
their lives? I don't feel like a majority of people
is happy.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
I mean I think they just experience, you know, sadness lesser.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
I think, yeah, I think they just experienced.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
They They probably very vulcan like push away their feelings
a lot more and then are more easily content more
so than actually happy.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Maybe yeah, content, that would be great.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
Yeah, but that also requires probably not feeling the happiness
or the sadness.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
You got to go through.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Man, We've got to confront our child and our deep paid.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
I don't need happiness fair enough. I could, I could,
I would have accept contentment, just fucking contentment, rather than
like driving to white Walmart and sing myself alive thinking
about like how I'm gonna be in there for fucking
an hour and a half getting together a bunch of
shit is slowly killing me and the fucking chemicals and.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Even I feel like it's a very thin line between
contentment and accepting that life just kind of.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Fucking sucks like it is.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
It is also being content with I guess this is
it also feels like wallowing in your own sadness.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
But then also like piling on the fact that we
don't know jack shit. This might not be it. It
might have already been. A bit like what if we're
in a cycle? How many times does your life flash
before your eyes? Maybe it just your your soul just
cycles through and you just have the same Yeah, but
life over and.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Over, I know, I know, but at you know, all
those things are possible, but you always sort of end
up at the But if I cannot experience the difference
between that and the next three cycles of flashing before
my eyes, at that point, it doesn't matter for what
I'm doing, So I might as well, just pretend that
this is reality.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
It is very much a yeah. But if I don't
know how to escape the matrix, I guess I'm stuck
in the matrix.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
I might as well, yeah, live my life within this system.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Maybe that's the Maybe the way you know that you're
in the loop. Maybe the way that you know that
you are actually already dead is when you have deja vu.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
But that happens so fucking often, I know, fair enough,
Oh god, yeah, yeah, no, I definitely have a chapter
in my book that's just all flashback post death. So
it's fun to mess with that sort of shit. But
I'm not going through it chronologically because that would make

(58:57):
for a really fucking boring book.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
And I want to skip parts of her.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Work because matter, because energy doesn't die. Maybe, like every
you know, every time you die, you just like your
soul is transferred to the next body in the next
universe that's almost exactly like yours that when you came
from So every time you have deja vu, it's because
you are doing something that the previous version of you

(59:22):
has already done in the other universe.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Right right, right, And that gives us the illusion of
free free will because we can sort of make choices,
but occasionally we'll make the same ones again and just
fucking repeat those mistakes, and on occasion we'll we'll do
something slightly differently and create a new multiverse. Right.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Yeah. It's like when I'm laying in bed and my
wife is taking a shower and she's listening to one
of my podcasts and like, I hear you or Jason
saying something or Matt and I'm like, oh, man, I
should have said this, and then I say that, I'm.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Like, oh, never mind, that's better because I definitely had
those moments where I'm like, oh, I should have said this,
and then I don't, which is worse, but I did.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Yeah, those those suck. But sometimes it's indeed like oh
I was. I definitely had that same thought back then,
and I'm getting to it. I can hear myself weave
it into the next minute of conversation to get to
my point because I cannot just say it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Imagine that I have to anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yeah, you know, I'm getting tired too when I'm just
like lazy about it and then I just like interrupt
and be like, hold, I got to say this. I
was I thought I was.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Yeah, exactly like two minutes ago when it was relevant.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
This is the thought I wanted to add.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Yeah, look I got nothing, but here here we go.
Ah right, well we'll stop talking about all this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
At this point. We got nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
We're old gianta mebes trying to reproduce. I look, man,
it's weird to have Latin pronounced in English when I'm
used to it being pronounced differently in Dutch, And.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Oh, what is it in what is it? What is
it in Latin? Though?

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Uh see, but that's that's sort of.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
It's hard because this is dead fucking language.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
So it's probably more Italian than I would instinctively do
because we have certain like we pronounced Latin in Dutch.
Education is also slightly different from how it was pronounced
in say Church, or in the Middle Ages or or
different countries, because Italians will pronounce it probably closer to
what it was, but at least in Dutch. Amuba amuba,

(01:01:34):
I guess in Latin it's it's the oe is is
like an Oh, it's a weird sound. So don't overthink this.
Amibi amiba? How what is the plural in English?

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
I don't know. Oh, okay, I think it's just amba's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Oh, I thought that was what I said at first.
God damn it, What did I say?

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Amibis amibies me?

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Oh? Okay, I think that feels like a like a
like a musea musea's museums sort of, but that that
explanation is hard to sorry. In Dutch, we follow the
Latin plural for words in um that go to ah
instead of ums. So UM's is wrong in Dutch, but

(01:02:26):
it's right in English. But then ah is right in Dutch,
but as is bullshit because you're just combining two plurals.
That's what I was trying to say. There's no plural
for a plural except for amba's apparently. But but I
should have gone there, and I didn't because that sounds
wrong to the Dutch year. I am mixing so many
fucking languages in my head at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
And I might be wrong about the It might just
be amba, it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
Could be multiple amba it's. It's also quite possible and
but at that point I would expect it to be
written ae because of Latin, but they probably dropped that
because English.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
I think this is the first time I've actually had
to say the word amiba since maybe seventh grade right possible.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
It is for me, like, it doesn't come up a
lot most amiba. No, I don't really think about. I
tend to spend my days without realizing we're inside a
giant amiba.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Mm hmm. It's just not that relevant to my day
to day.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
It's not. It's not. On the next episode of The
Star Trek Classic Watch Rewatch, we find out one of
the reasons why that non interference directive exists because without it,
Without it, you get episodes like a piece of the action.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Oh god, I'm looking forward to this. Ah boy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
No, it's beloved by some, hated by some.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
It's and I will find out which one you are
next time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Who I will too.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
It is when I skipped Oh okay, so it's it's
it's one you haven't seen in a cool Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
I mean well I have kind of. I have seen
it kind of recently because it was I just had
Star Trek on tub or some ship. Sure, and I
was just like, and I walked through and I was like, ah,
Jesus is a piece of the action. Yeah, but it's
an interesting premise. It's fun and I'll find it is

(01:04:27):
a fun episode.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Good good looking forward to it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Yeah, it's just also so cringe.

Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
Maybe my generation has grown up with so much cringe. No,
I don't don't necessarily like that much cringe. I'm not
not gen z enough for that. I'm still still a
millennial anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:04:46):
Yeah, all right, Well until next time, Joe Lone true,
live long and prosper and of course eat that dick.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
People eat that dick.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
You know it should have said, should have said the
multicolor psychedelic I mean a bullshit represents the fact that
life persists even in the darkest avoids something like that. Yeah,
or you know, rather, the color of life cannot exist
without the darkness. Some stupid shit.

Speaker 5 (01:05:25):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
If you'd like to hear more from David C.

Speaker 5 (01:05:32):
Robertson, check out the DC on Screen podcast or Malagustict
TV for.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
His web videos.

Speaker 5 (01:05:39):
If you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check
out the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music