July 21, 2025 • 34 mins
As we bypass strange new worlds for familiar old ground, the Star Trek universe continues to get smaller, maman. What used to feel like endless possibility now feels like a ho-hum countdown to the next bit of heavy-handed fan service. But whatever, maman. It wasn't as bad as Section 31. Not by a stretch.
Episode Reviewed: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x02 - "Wedding Bell Blues"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Matthew Carroll
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues Dave and Matt's ongoing journey discussing Star Trek as they have since the late1980s.
Join Us:
Site: http://startrekucast.com
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Episode Reviewed: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x02 - "Wedding Bell Blues"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Matthew Carroll
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues Dave and Matt's ongoing journey discussing Star Trek as they have since the late1980s.
Join Us:
Site: http://startrekucast.com
Apple: http://bit.ly/StuCast
Spotify: http://bit.ly/StarTrekUCast
Spreaker: http://bit.ly/StuCastSpreaker
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, we're jumping ahead
three months just to jump back fifty eight years. We're
talking abouting bell blues right for these words from Godling's
throwing temper tantrums.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome Star Trek Universe the podcast. We're two lifelong friends
in your chat about Star Trek. My name is Matthew Carroll.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm David C. Robertson.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's up, Dave? Hey man, let's just jump right in
because we're we've been were We watched and recorded and
watched in recorded both these episodes this morning. So we've
got this few hours. What way do you think of
wedding bell blues?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Uh? Okay, so let me say this. I am a fan. Yes,
please service me, but in the course of servicing me.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I would very much rather you not service me if
servicing me means diminishing something that happened fifty eight years
ago and making it make less sense than it did
somehow back then.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Okay, well, I don't know what you're talking about. I
don't know what this is all a reference to. So
you guys really yeah, I mean like, yeah, help me out.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Uh So rays Starby is totally playing Trelaine from Squire
of Gothos. Oh, okay, it has the same ending.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I recognized the uh, I recognized his look a little bit, right,
didn't he look Did he look like him? Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah? He to us, he looked like him, like in
the story. And that's I guess how they're fixing the
cannon issue of like Spock not knowing who the fuck
he is.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But he looked like Spot. He looked like a Vulcan, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Or an Andorian wedding planner.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
But right, but he actually to us he looks like uh, Trelaine.
I'd have to I have to go back and rewatch
that episode. I don't remember that episode, but this is
what how that ended as well, an adult god came
and took away their child, which this adult god was
played by John Delancy.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Right, yeah, and it's all it has been speculated, speculated, theorized. Yeah,
that and in some extended universe stuff by Peter David
et cetera, that that Trelane was a baby que But
you know, the Squire of Gothos in the first place
is not a great episode. Like is iconic and he's
(02:29):
a lot of fun, but it's odd because he needs
technology to augment his powers, which I guess could be
a thing because he's a kid, he's a young que Okay,
But in this episode they did a similar thing where
it's like he uses a drink it seems like to
(02:50):
kick start it for a spock, and then they drop
it completely. Okay, they it felt like they insinuated that
he needed that drink.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, maybe I don't know what that was about, but
it seemed to me like almost like a trickster god
type thing, like this drink, have this drink, it is
the decision to take to make the wish or something. Yeah,
I agree, it's weird. But but then in the end,
like he was able to do whatever he wanted. So
it really just felt like that was all just him
playing around. He was just in control of these people,
(03:21):
but not fully. And I guess that again, if he's
a cue, if that is the queue that we know
and that is connecting back to that in the original series,
then his powers might not be. That might be why
they were able to break free of his powers with
a with a emotional event or whatever. I don't know there.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So I of course like went went straight online as
soon as I watched it, and I was like, I
I gotta know what some what people are saying about
this thing, uh huh, And yeah, people seem to be
as divided as I feel about it. Like someone had
a theory that's kind of fun that, like, you know,
(04:05):
the punishment he's being taken for after this event or
possibly the event Squire of Gothos, is Q literally just
taking Q Junior to be taught to behave by Aunt
Kathy and Voyager.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Oh yeah, that's fine, but I.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Mean, especially since someone pointed out that that e Chib
was talking about Kirk and the Original Enterprise and Q
Junior basically knew all about it, and he was just like,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That's that's real fun.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I was wondering if this if this was Q's child,
if this was the same child from Voyager, which I
guess it wouldn't have to be. It's possible, but he's
he's four thousand years old, But how does that mean
if you live outside of time and you're bouncing around
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I think he was like eighty twenty or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
But yeah, he did. He' said eight thousand and then
he and then tre Lane said eighty twenty.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, I think it's interesting, Like I need I want
to go back and look at that Q two episode
to see what they say if they give him an
age or something, because I did go back and double
check on Squire of Gothos and they didn't mention a name, sorry,
an age when they took him away.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So, but it's almost the same where he's just like
come along now. In Trelaine he's like, no, I was winning.
You saw, so it's it's fun. I just you know,
there's a part of it, like, God, what, how does
it make sense? Like either Trelaine knows Spock and isn't
bringing it up. He was very not into Spock though
(05:38):
in Squire of Gothos.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, that might be like the thing he's he he
followed his plan last time. You know, maybe he's showing up.
I mean, you know, obviously this is all like making
it make sense, But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Was very interested when he said the reason he started
doing this was because Corby and and uh Nurse Chapel
were dig around the Old Home World.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, Yeah, I think you just said Korby was right.
But he says Korby was digging in the Old Home
World and he just seemed to be uh, basically pompous
or whatever, and he's like I wanted to bring him
down a peg. And that was very funny.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
In the original show.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Okay, yeah, I dig it, I dig it. I thought
it was fun. It's a fun episode. I didn't I
don't really remember that episode of the original series. I
have to go back and rewatch it. But uh yeah,
this this was fun. That's the that actor who's playing
Trelaine in This is gosh, what's his name, Reese Darby.
Reese Darby, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like him a lot,
(06:41):
and uh so I haven't seen him in this role.
Was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm not saying he did a bad job or anything.
There's a part of me that feels aggravated when they
go but when it feels lazy in some ways, when
they can try to go back and like pull up
an old character and and it kind of makes the
original version feel less special. And part of me never
(07:06):
really loved the idea that Trelaine was a que but
with this episode, it's kind of just like, Okay, well,
I guess we can. I mean, it's not set in stone,
but John Delancy being the father is kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Like okay, you know, yeah, yeah, well it could it
could just be. I agree that it's definitely implying that
he's a CUE for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You know, numerous outlets called him called Reestarb is playing
Trelaine or Q Junior. So I I don't know, you know,
it's weird, Yeah, weird for sure, like IMDb and shit,
you know, like not just like oh wow articles.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I also think it's a very very strange choice. And
I knew they were going to do this because I
read an article about it. But the choice to make
to leave Corby with an accent, I guess the actor's
actual accent, because he doesn't have an accent. And in
what are Little Girls Made Of? In the original series.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I don't remember Roger Corby either, so I know he's
in the original series. Yeah, they're married, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
No, they they were engaged and then he went off
to do something and he disappeared, And that's right. She
always held out hope that he was alive somewhere, that's right.
I remember that it stayed in that episode. That's why
she's on the Enterprise, by the way, hmm. In that
original series episode, it's like she was hoping she would
find him this one day.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Oh interesting, Well it may still that may still be
the case. Maybe she said to stay for that reason
at some point.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well it's a it's a fun episode, like it did,
not a lot of meat on the bones. I think
it's fun.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I don't know really into the spot Chapel thing, if
you're like, I don't know one of those fans. You know,
I liked the idea of the the unrequited nature of it,
or you know, in the original series, when it was
clear she really liked Spock and Spock was really into her,
(09:14):
and but they he couldn't bring himself to do that
and et cetera, et cetera. Like that was interesting. Uh,
it's gone on a bit much in strange New Worlds
for me.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Though, huh. Yeah, I've I've liked it so far, and
I really liked it in this. I liked the idea
that in that moment, he's giving her that speech to
remind her of her love for Kirby, but saying all
these things that are also genuine to how he feels,
and he just couldn't express them and wasn't ready for
this relationship, I think, and he was realizing that I
(09:46):
liked all of that a lot, and I liked it
what Len said, which was like you gave her your
love the best you could and that's and that's what's important.
Like you did the you did the thing, you loved her,
even if it wasn't requited.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, there are parts of it that I really enjoyed.
And as far as like the character development and wondering
like how this will all resolve, like see like part
of my fun. I think it's just so weird to
me like watching this show because like part of what
I think would be fun about running a prequel series
(10:21):
is making it all work and may like finding actors
who acted like and sounded like and looked like the
original guys and you know what I mean, like really
just like making the old stuff seem new.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Sure, yeah, that's clearly not what they're interested in doing
with this show. I know.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I know it's so odd to me, like because they
keep saying that, like they're gonna get back to like
where we are in the original series, Like the producers
keep talking about like, oh, yeah, we just have to
make sure we get back to where we were with
all the characters at the start of the original series.
And I'm just like, how like there will be people
that who have to lose their memory, there will be
(11:04):
people that like have to have complete like character shifts.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
At this point, like what y'all doing?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Like I don't know, there's an excitement for me in
it a little bit, but also just like that's like
the biggest like you talk about like like oh, there
are no stakes and I don't feel like there are
many stakes in this prequel. But also I sit there
and go like that was my biggest steak, is like
how are they going to pull this back.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
To where it was? If you're really waiting on that,
you're probably waiting and you've got false hope there. I
don't think they're going to make this line up in
any way like the way you're talking about like people
everyone noting everything, every line making sense. I think they
just generally want to make the characters feel like the
characters by the end. It's it's a very uh just
(11:55):
sort of get it in the ballpark of the character,
I think is what they're really going for. Like acts
don't matter, looks don't matter. They're they're building their own,
their own universe that is guiding these characters to be
like where they make sense spiritually with the with the
characters we have. But and I get it. It's it's
a hard Uh, it's a hard thing. Like I think
(12:16):
making a movie where you're making a prequel is a
little easier, where it's like we have this two hour
self contained thing and we want it to line up
perfectly with this other thing. We make a series, it's
a prequel. It's just serieses evolve, they change concepts. They
may have a guiding principle, it changes over time because
the fan reaction and the way different actors have chemistry
(12:38):
and the way that different things happen, and it's like
you just don't know. You just don't know when you're
starting one ten years. You don't know if every actor
is going to stick around. Like you just have to
go with the flow as you can and and and
be flexible while having some principles and and so yeah,
I think it's just not feasible to be like I'm
(13:00):
gonna make a show that is exactly like the original series,
and it's going to lead exactly and everyone's gonna look
the same. It's just a it's it's a different kind
of concept, which I get why they're not trying to
make that now for for a variety of reasons. But
I understand your impulse to see that. I've never cared
too much about the accents or the looks or any
of that. I do care about, like changing events that
(13:23):
does bother me. But like, yeah, the accents and character
and looks of characters doesn't bother me at all.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, I mean, I would be lying off I said
it didn't bother me. I don't. I would not. I
don't say I don't. I'm not gonna say that I
have any kind of false hope. Like I'm just fair,
just damned curious what they think is going to be acceptable.
I guess, like and I'm for a lot of people
it will be because a lot of people just don't care,
(13:50):
Like you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Sure don't care about certain things like I care. It
bothers me when they say things that don't make sense,
Like even if I'm not a big fan of that
apples and I don't know that episode very well, it
still bothers me that two episodes exist where characters say
totally opposite things that can't be resolved. That really bothers me.
But just things like certain things don't bother me. As
(14:15):
much as they bother.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
We've had this discussion since we've been having this podcast,
you know, like like this is the same discussion we
had way back when we're talking about the ships and
the re redesigned Enterprise and stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's I mean the whole show. This
whole show is like runs against the grain of a
monk time where a Hurrah and Nurse Chapel are both
shocked that Bach.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Is married, right sure, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So like, yeah, I mean, I know, it's not it's
it's it's odd. It's something like I was. I was
talking about the last episode where it's like in one
vein you're like, yes, I know, this is not going
to line up with the original series, and they have
actually they've actively stated this is not that's not the
Cannon anymore. But at the same time, the producers keep
(15:07):
talking about lining it up with Cannon and like, well,
we're just body checking in the canon a little bit.
We're gonna do that, We're gonna do the Cannon, And
I'm like, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You're not that that always me. It's just that's the
producers trying to keep both sides of the fandom happy
and what you're doing is not making any inside happy.
And I get it. Like if if I'm a fan
of the old Cannon and you tell me, hey, we're
starting a new Star Trek it's completely nude and doesn't
match the old canon, I wouldn't be as interested, you know,
Like if you if you tell me you're rebooting the
(15:37):
original series like and just starting over, I'm just not
that interested in that, you know. I want to see
it move forward.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Watching these like Star Wars fans, you know, complain about
their Disney shows and oh they're ruining Star Wars, Like, no,
y'all don't know how good you have it. Yeah, it's true,
y'all are keep they're they're keeping they're like doing deep fakes,
they're they're keeping the technology looking the same, they're keeping.
I mean, oh my god, just y'all don't know that
Doctor Who as well, Like, oh, y'all got it so good.
(16:07):
It's about Doctor Who fans, so I guess we got
it good. But yeah, for sure, yeah, I do kind
of wish they would do that with Star Trek. But
I don't know. This is an okay episode.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah it wasn't. It's fine, brilliant or anything.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
What do you think about Lawn and the thing from
the Dark Crystal behind her. I know it's a gorn.
I know it's supposed to be a gorn, but it
looks like those creatures from the Dark Crystal.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh yeah, yeah, you know. Wait, Lon did that? That
was yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
That was or take or take or take it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
No, no, no. I was like, wait, yeah, well it gives
her something else. I was I was wondering how you
would feel about it, because I felt fine about it.
I don't know that I'm terribly interested yet, but it
does give her characters something else to go through other
than just be the I though the ship girl and
the sort of quippy nature of herself, Like maybe she
(17:06):
has a little bit of darkness going now.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, I was afraid that they were gonna go straight
from that too. Now she's just gonna be angry that
her brother is dating her friend.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Right, Yeah, that was just a playful thing they did
this episode, which they also they tease that the brother
might be getting hired to do a full time documentary,
which I'm sure he'll be stationed on the Enterprise for sure,
and we'll see more of him this season, which that'll
always fine for me. I mean, this episode started, it
seemed like that was gonna be a good B plot,
which I guess it was kind of, but it really
(17:37):
wasn't It just like introduced those characters and then drop
them for the wedding. You know, ah, you see him
at the end, but you don't really get any kind
of an arc for those characters.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Just too much going on in the episode.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Man, oh, I don't know about that. This one. I
do not agree this one. If anything, too little goes
on in this episode. It's really like, hey, there's a wedding,
two guys try to stop it, and then finally Spock
has to do an impassioned speech and that's the end.
Like it really is not U it could have been
(18:10):
like this. This seemed like it was gonna be traditional
a plot B plot thing, and then it started a
plot B plot then just dropped it. So it was
really just this single, very simple thing.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
In my opinion, Yeah, I agree with you, But what
I mean when I say too much going on? And
I don't know if you noticed this, but they basically
did they set up the brother and uhura mm hmm,
and then as soon as reality is shifted by Trelaine,
they don't go back to them until reality is shifted
(18:40):
back and Tarlaine is gone, and then they come in again,
right because they didn't want anyone going. Well, that didn't
really happen between the brother.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And there is a moment where they're like dancing or
talking at the wedding or something like that, and maybe
that was after the shift was back. Yeah, yeah, they exactly.
They just do not that that that plot has just dropped.
I mean they've been introduced now, and I'm sure it
will continue. That he's gonna be making a documentary and
so you know, it'll it'll continue, and then we have
(19:11):
this new bartender. I guess this is interesting because it
seems like they had they finished to Jiminy Park two
and this is sort of this felt more like the
pilot for the season, season three or whatever, you know,
where they're gonna be like adding a couple of new
crew members. We've got the new nurse, we've got the
new bartender and the new cameraman.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah. I don't know. I'm like, if you guys are
looking to save money, paramount, probably don't introduce you know.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
No, man, I loved it. This is like Disco every
season removed every character with any kind of like prosthetics
and then introduced humans to replace them. Uh this this
is like, hey, yeah, give me a bartender with four arms.
That's cool. Like give me something neat to have in
the background. Nothing else.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I think it would. I think it's funny that they
one set up this idea that Scott he doesn't drink.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, drink, Oh he does.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, he absolutely gets a drink with that bartender, like
they order a couple of a couple of drinks.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I was wondering about that because I don't remember his
relationship with alcohol in the original series. Did he have
any kind of like run with like either not drinking
or drinking too much?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh, he's he's a drinker.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Okay, Okay, Well I wonder if that's what this was
supposed to be, Like he's not a drinker, and then
he's having his first little sip there and then we're
gonna go go on to that. That's that's that's kind
of fun.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole bit, and I mean, well,
he gets drunk at that one place and wolf in
the fold and you know they think he murders that woman,
and then there's by any other name. I think it
was the episode where he gets drunk. He distracts an
alien by getting him drunk, and he's like, they're just
(20:59):
drinking it up and he's like the alien is like,
what is this that Scotty's looking at it. He's like,
it's uh, it's it's uh, it's green. I remember that,
And then they did they redid that on Next Generation
when Scotty gets pulled out of that transporter buffer.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Maybe that's what I'm remembering.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And well that was a call back to the original series.
Data's got the and Dorian whatever whatever it was. I
don't remember what it was called, but but cart knew
what it was neat all.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Right, Well, uh yeah, good episode. Not a great episode,
not not not as I said from the beginning, not
a lot of meat on the bones, but like fine,
and it was cool to hear John Delancy's voice and
to maybe expand the queuh, give give some confirmation to
some of those Q theories. At least give them another
red string to put on their board.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
H Yeah. There was a nice moment with Pike and
Betel at the beginning. It seemed to yeah, there was
reference him maybe moving in with her at some point
or well, it kind of seemed like a joke. I
was wondering, like, Iona, if they if they really go
all in with that like love plot with them. I'm
wondering what will happen after he's injured, you know, like
(22:14):
if he ends up in the chair at the end
of this series, like will she will he still be
with her and will she be taking care of him
kind of or whatever? You know, I'm wondering how they're doomed.
You think they're doomed, Well, if you go by the
original series, which I know we can't completely, but definitely
the original series, the Menagerie spots kidnaps Pike back to
(22:40):
tallow so you can live with Vienna and believe that
he's or feel like he's right.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That's right. I forgot about that. Yep, hmmm, yeah, that
would be very undermining of that. But thinking that I
was doing slippery Slope, man, yeah, man, you can't. It's hard.
I don't know. It's hard to predict anything because I
don't know. I don't know enough about the original series.
I don't have a good enough memory for it all
(23:07):
to remember everything that it should be connected to. And
then even if I did, there's no there's no likelihood
that will connect to this. I'm like, all right, but
that feels like a pretty foundational thing. They wouldn't change
unless they change it all, unless he avoids the accident,
which is a whole different thing.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
If I if we're still alive at ten years, I
don't even think we'll be talking about this can this canon.
That's my personal thought. Yeah, Now, maybe that's because Star
Trek's gonna die, Maybe because Paramount is not doing well.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I think that it is true we may not be
talking about this canon. But part of that is I
don't know. They're doing so much referencing of the old stuff,
and it's it's the prequel problem. Man, They're doing so
much referencing of the old stuff, and you know you're
gonna I was thinking, we wrap it up, but we're
gonna get on. I'm gonna get on a about the cannon.
(24:01):
But like and and and prequels, you get in this
place where you're trying to fit everything into the cannon.
So you're like, oh, let's explore the gorn A bunch.
Let's do a bunch more with these characters that are
already established and already are pretty fully fleshed out, and
you're adding nothing new. I mean, I think the Gorn
Battle for Better or Worse added a lot to the Gorn.
(24:25):
The Gorn could come back as this xenomorph like you know,
putting babies in people's backs or whatever, like that's that's
pretty gross, and like that could come back next next
season or like next season of like whatever in the
twenty fourth century or whatever. But yeah, man, I just
(24:47):
I feel like they're not doing enough to add to
the cannon, and even especially episodes like this where it's
literally just a redo of an original series episode. It's
not even adding to the sort of like philosophical standards
of And now now there are certain episodes like, uh,
was it fog of War? Is that the name of
that episode that I'm thinking of? Uh? Yeah, I think
(25:09):
I called it fog of War last time too, and
and I defended my my uh my take then too,
very same thing. Uh I No, I don't read anything
under the cloak of war, like I will remember that
episode forever and like the ethics discussion of it, and
like whenever they do something on Star Trek, I will
(25:31):
think back to that episode and how just like I
think of when I think of that episode, I think
back to Cisco, like on a in in the Pale Moonlight,
Like I think it's this, it's it's a through line
of like what happens when a Valiant Federation character does
a very illegal thing that he thinks is right, you
(25:51):
know what I mean, Like that's that's a cool like
those that those will always be spiritually connected and I
will always remember them both. But certain episodes are doing
he or just feel like so cookie cutter, like the
old stuff or so you know, delving into the same
mining the same material that I'm just like, I need new,
I need I need to take us to new places.
(26:13):
And that's what Star Trek's supposed to do. And that's
why I think that that's the bigger problem with the
prequel problem. We have tons of problems, and we've been
discussing the problem of keeping Cannon with a prequel, because
it either removes all the steaks or you have to
break cannon, like this is the only two options, and
or maybe not steaks. You either remove steaks or creativity.
You remove the possibility for stakes and creativity by making
(26:35):
a prequel. And that's a bummer. But the bigger bummer
for me is the fact that we're just like digging
down on the same people and characters and concepts, and
I want to see us moving forward.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah yeah, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
So anyway, well that's that's about I got to say
about this episode. I didn't hate it. I really didn't.
I enjoyed Reestarp a lot as this Trelaine character, like
I liked U. I liked him snapping and just doing
his thing, and it definitely thought Q. Immediately, I thought
this supposed to be a Q. They just won't know
it's a que, you know, and then we of course it.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Ends like it ends yeah, uh yeah, he's uh you know,
I've seen some people saying, like, oh, they never said
his name was Trelaine, so it might not be him. Sure,
Uh well, there was nothing tying, nothing about that species
that was tying them to that sort of uh look
that he had. He you know, Trelaine was obsessed with
(27:33):
that look in the Squire of Gotho's uh huh. And
I mean, you know, he said the salutations of felicitations
or whatever he said tally ho, just like Trelaine. He
was Trelaine, y'all, okay, come on, yeah, like he was
just Trelaine.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I gotta go back and rewatch that episode. Now, all right, well, uh,
anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
But no, I I just hope it gets but from here.
I didn't hate this episode, but it was also just
like it was such a shit burger of an episode.
It was such a like a what are we doing here?
Why are we doing this? It's strange new world, it's
not old ass ground.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, that's that's a fair critique. This is supposed to
be strange new world. This is supposed to be our
chance to like add new interesting things, even though though
it's pretty cool. We're supposed to be visiting new places,
doing new things, and I don't think that's what's happening yet.
The Gorn, you know, there's there's some bricks added to
the cannon in there that we can like expound on
(28:34):
two hundred years in the future.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Now, well, it's more like they went next to the
brick wall and they you know, built something out of like, uh,
you know, God, I can't even think of.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You really, I'm really trying to overmine this metaphor.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I feel like, yeah, anyway, they built a completely different
kind of wall instead. That's also the fucking Gorn.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Whatever I'm thinking of my brain's not braining right now.
I'm sorry, y'all.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's okay. I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Smart man in the first place.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
We expect very little from you, Dave, and when you
give us a little less, that's all right too.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah. What's that guy that was on all the Ricky
Gervais stuff that they made fun of all the time relentlessly.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Oh, plink it plinket. No, that's not gosh. What is
that gname? An idiot abroad?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Is his? Well, I'm the idiot who never goes anywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yep. That indeed, Carl Pilkington. I was close, Samson, I
I'm that, but for this mm hmm, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Thanks for man.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
No, I was gonna I was gonna say, like, I
am too just for different stuff. I am too for
like stuff. It's probably more important to be making a
Star Trek podcast, like remembering what happened in older Star
Trek and like sometimes you know, if I know something's coming,
A lot of times I already watched on that older episode,
uh before we watched something, but I didn't know this
(30:16):
was coming. So like I was like, that seems like
a reference, but I don't know what it's a reference.
To right now.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, vaguely familiar. That's another problem, by the way, that
even though you don't know what the hell they're talking about,
you're watching it and you're going this feels like a reference.
I just don't know what too. Like. They should be
making episodes that stand on their own and don't feel
like they're being like, hey, guess what you're missing something
you shouldn't When you make a reference. It shouldn't feel
(30:43):
to new people like, hey, look at the reference.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You don't get. It should feel to people who know it, like, oh,
I got what you get. I get what you're doing
the which, to be honest, like it felt like a
reference for a couple of reasons. It felt like a
reference because the style that he's invoking seemed like original
series style and like mannerisms and stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I did want to call out one scene I really liked,
and that is there's a scene between Krby and Spock
where they're working together, and I just really liked all
all the Corby and Spock stuff, like them working together
to sort of solve the problem was good. And there's
a line I wish i'd written it down because I didn't,
and it was something like if one of our intelligences,
(31:23):
the degree of one of our intelligences, was to break
through this illusion, I assure you it would not be yours.
I'm not saying it fully. Yeah, but it was a
really good line, and they both raised their eyebrows at
each other, and I was like, that's this was good.
These two guys are good.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I liked it up until the point where Kirby raised
his eyebrow, and then I went, oh, I liked it. Yeah,
I liked it. I liked the line, and then I
didn't like that they both had to raise their eyebrows
at each other. That was stupid to me.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Why people raise their eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
It was just it was like in when you have
like a like a character say something off the cuff
and then they look at the dog and the dog
goes oh, Like I hate that shit. I hate it,
Like it's such a cute, sy bullshit thing to do.
They did it in the original series two, and I
hated it there, like I I hate it across all media, like, aha,
(32:22):
let's nudge the audience s box thing is raised up
the eyebrow. That's how close Korby is to be in spuck.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Ah. Well, yeah, That's what I liked about it. It
makes to me from like a he's he's, he's He's
got a few mannerisms similar, which is like maybe why
Chapel likes them both. You know, there's a little bit,
a little bit of spuck in him. But no, I
like that moment a lot.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
The great irony is that Korby himself winds up disappearing,
and then when she finds him, he's a fucking android
because Krby dies and they basically make a Corby in.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I'm trying to see, like I recognized Corby? Do you
know what I recognize him from?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I'm looking at his his IMDb and he's in darreedvil
Borne again Devlin who was Devlin this this recent season. M. Yeah, okay,
that must be what I'm recognized him from. I was
trying to scan back in his IMDb to see I
don't think I've seen anything else, but obviously I've seen
(33:26):
darrevil Born again and Devlin. I'm just not placing I
think it may be he might be one of the
police officers. Maybe M there was a you know, the
corrupt police force under fists All right, man, Well, uh,
we'll be back with you guys very soon. Joel Untrue,
livelong and prosper.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or Malagius to dot tv for his web videos.
Like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out the
Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music. Just
(34:07):
search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, we're jumping ahead
three months just to jump back fifty eight years. We're
talking abouting bell blues right for these words from Godling's
throwing temper tantrums.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Welcome Star Trek Universe the podcast. We're two lifelong friends
in your chat about Star Trek. My name is Matthew Carroll.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm David C. Robertson.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
What's up, Dave? Hey man, let's just jump right in
because we're we've been were We watched and recorded and
watched in recorded both these episodes this morning. So we've
got this few hours. What way do you think of
wedding bell blues?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Uh? Okay, so let me say this. I am a fan. Yes,
please service me, but in the course of servicing me.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I would very much rather you not service me if
servicing me means diminishing something that happened fifty eight years
ago and making it make less sense than it did
somehow back then.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Okay, well, I don't know what you're talking about. I
don't know what this is all a reference to. So
you guys really yeah, I mean like, yeah, help me out.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Uh So rays Starby is totally playing Trelaine from Squire
of Gothos. Oh, okay, it has the same ending.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I recognized the uh, I recognized his look a little bit, right,
didn't he look Did he look like him? Oh?
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah? He to us, he looked like him, like in
the story. And that's I guess how they're fixing the
cannon issue of like Spock not knowing who the fuck
he is.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
But he looked like Spot. He looked like a Vulcan, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Or an Andorian wedding planner.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
But right, but he actually to us he looks like uh, Trelaine.
I'd have to I have to go back and rewatch
that episode. I don't remember that episode, but this is
what how that ended as well, an adult god came
and took away their child, which this adult god was
played by John Delancy.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Right, yeah, and it's all it has been speculated, speculated, theorized. Yeah,
that and in some extended universe stuff by Peter David
et cetera, that that Trelane was a baby que But
you know, the Squire of Gothos in the first place
is not a great episode. Like is iconic and he's
(02:29):
a lot of fun, but it's odd because he needs
technology to augment his powers, which I guess could be
a thing because he's a kid, he's a young que Okay,
But in this episode they did a similar thing where
it's like he uses a drink it seems like to
(02:50):
kick start it for a spock, and then they drop
it completely. Okay, they it felt like they insinuated that
he needed that drink.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, maybe I don't know what that was about, but
it seemed to me like almost like a trickster god
type thing, like this drink, have this drink, it is
the decision to take to make the wish or something. Yeah,
I agree, it's weird. But but then in the end,
like he was able to do whatever he wanted. So
it really just felt like that was all just him
playing around. He was just in control of these people,
(03:21):
but not fully. And I guess that again, if he's
a cue, if that is the queue that we know
and that is connecting back to that in the original series,
then his powers might not be. That might be why
they were able to break free of his powers with
a with a emotional event or whatever. I don't know there.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
So I of course like went went straight online as
soon as I watched it, and I was like, I
I gotta know what some what people are saying about
this thing, uh huh, And yeah, people seem to be
as divided as I feel about it. Like someone had
a theory that's kind of fun that, like, you know,
(04:05):
the punishment he's being taken for after this event or
possibly the event Squire of Gothos, is Q literally just
taking Q Junior to be taught to behave by Aunt
Kathy and Voyager.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Oh yeah, that's fine, but I.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Mean, especially since someone pointed out that that e Chib
was talking about Kirk and the Original Enterprise and Q
Junior basically knew all about it, and he was just like,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
That's that's real fun.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I was wondering if this if this was Q's child,
if this was the same child from Voyager, which I
guess it wouldn't have to be. It's possible, but he's
he's four thousand years old, But how does that mean
if you live outside of time and you're bouncing around
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
I think he was like eighty twenty or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
But yeah, he did. He' said eight thousand and then
he and then tre Lane said eighty twenty.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, I think it's interesting, Like I need I want
to go back and look at that Q two episode
to see what they say if they give him an
age or something, because I did go back and double
check on Squire of Gothos and they didn't mention a name, sorry,
an age when they took him away.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So, but it's almost the same where he's just like
come along now. In Trelaine he's like, no, I was winning.
You saw, so it's it's fun. I just you know,
there's a part of it, like, God, what, how does
it make sense? Like either Trelaine knows Spock and isn't
bringing it up. He was very not into Spock though
(05:38):
in Squire of Gothos.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Well, that might be like the thing he's he he
followed his plan last time. You know, maybe he's showing up.
I mean, you know, obviously this is all like making
it make sense, But yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Was very interested when he said the reason he started
doing this was because Corby and and uh Nurse Chapel
were dig around the Old Home World.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Right, Yeah, I think you just said Korby was right.
But he says Korby was digging in the Old Home
World and he just seemed to be uh, basically pompous
or whatever, and he's like I wanted to bring him
down a peg. And that was very funny.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
In the original show.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Okay, yeah, I dig it, I dig it. I thought
it was fun. It's a fun episode. I didn't I
don't really remember that episode of the original series. I
have to go back and rewatch it. But uh yeah,
this this was fun. That's the that actor who's playing
Trelaine in This is gosh, what's his name, Reese Darby.
Reese Darby, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like him a lot,
(06:41):
and uh so I haven't seen him in this role.
Was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm not saying he did a bad job or anything.
There's a part of me that feels aggravated when they
go but when it feels lazy in some ways, when
they can try to go back and like pull up
an old character and and it kind of makes the
original version feel less special. And part of me never
(07:06):
really loved the idea that Trelaine was a que but
with this episode, it's kind of just like, Okay, well,
I guess we can. I mean, it's not set in stone,
but John Delancy being the father is kind of.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Like okay, you know, yeah, yeah, well it could it
could just be. I agree that it's definitely implying that
he's a CUE for sure.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You know, numerous outlets called him called Reestarb is playing
Trelaine or Q Junior. So I I don't know, you know,
it's weird, Yeah, weird for sure, like IMDb and shit,
you know, like not just like oh wow articles.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
I also think it's a very very strange choice. And
I knew they were going to do this because I
read an article about it. But the choice to make
to leave Corby with an accent, I guess the actor's
actual accent, because he doesn't have an accent. And in
what are Little Girls Made Of? In the original series.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
I don't remember Roger Corby either, so I know he's
in the original series. Yeah, they're married, is that correct?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
No, they they were engaged and then he went off
to do something and he disappeared, And that's right. She
always held out hope that he was alive somewhere, that's right.
I remember that it stayed in that episode. That's why
she's on the Enterprise, by the way, hmm. In that
original series episode, it's like she was hoping she would
find him this one day.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Oh interesting, Well it may still that may still be
the case. Maybe she said to stay for that reason
at some point.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well it's a it's a fun episode, like it did,
not a lot of meat on the bones. I think
it's fun.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I don't know really into the spot Chapel thing, if
you're like, I don't know one of those fans. You know,
I liked the idea of the the unrequited nature of it,
or you know, in the original series, when it was
clear she really liked Spock and Spock was really into her,
(09:14):
and but they he couldn't bring himself to do that
and et cetera, et cetera. Like that was interesting. Uh,
it's gone on a bit much in strange New Worlds
for me.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Though, huh. Yeah, I've I've liked it so far, and
I really liked it in this. I liked the idea
that in that moment, he's giving her that speech to
remind her of her love for Kirby, but saying all
these things that are also genuine to how he feels,
and he just couldn't express them and wasn't ready for
this relationship, I think, and he was realizing that I
(09:46):
liked all of that a lot, and I liked it
what Len said, which was like you gave her your
love the best you could and that's and that's what's important.
Like you did the you did the thing, you loved her,
even if it wasn't requited.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yeah, there are parts of it that I really enjoyed.
And as far as like the character development and wondering
like how this will all resolve, like see like part
of my fun. I think it's just so weird to
me like watching this show because like part of what
I think would be fun about running a prequel series
(10:21):
is making it all work and may like finding actors
who acted like and sounded like and looked like the
original guys and you know what I mean, like really
just like making the old stuff seem new.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Sure, yeah, that's clearly not what they're interested in doing
with this show. I know.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
I know it's so odd to me, like because they
keep saying that, like they're gonna get back to like
where we are in the original series, Like the producers
keep talking about like, oh, yeah, we just have to
make sure we get back to where we were with
all the characters at the start of the original series.
And I'm just like, how like there will be people
that who have to lose their memory, there will be
(11:04):
people that like have to have complete like character shifts.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
At this point, like what y'all doing?
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Like I don't know, there's an excitement for me in
it a little bit, but also just like that's like
the biggest like you talk about like like oh, there
are no stakes and I don't feel like there are
many stakes in this prequel. But also I sit there
and go like that was my biggest steak, is like
how are they going to pull this back.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
To where it was? If you're really waiting on that,
you're probably waiting and you've got false hope there. I
don't think they're going to make this line up in
any way like the way you're talking about like people
everyone noting everything, every line making sense. I think they
just generally want to make the characters feel like the
characters by the end. It's it's a very uh just
(11:55):
sort of get it in the ballpark of the character,
I think is what they're really going for. Like acts
don't matter, looks don't matter. They're they're building their own,
their own universe that is guiding these characters to be
like where they make sense spiritually with the with the
characters we have. But and I get it. It's it's
a hard Uh, it's a hard thing. Like I think
(12:16):
making a movie where you're making a prequel is a
little easier, where it's like we have this two hour
self contained thing and we want it to line up
perfectly with this other thing. We make a series, it's
a prequel. It's just serieses evolve, they change concepts. They
may have a guiding principle, it changes over time because
the fan reaction and the way different actors have chemistry
(12:38):
and the way that different things happen, and it's like
you just don't know. You just don't know when you're
starting one ten years. You don't know if every actor
is going to stick around. Like you just have to
go with the flow as you can and and and
be flexible while having some principles and and so yeah,
I think it's just not feasible to be like I'm
(13:00):
gonna make a show that is exactly like the original series,
and it's going to lead exactly and everyone's gonna look
the same. It's just a it's it's a different kind
of concept, which I get why they're not trying to
make that now for for a variety of reasons. But
I understand your impulse to see that. I've never cared
too much about the accents or the looks or any
of that. I do care about, like changing events that
(13:23):
does bother me. But like, yeah, the accents and character
and looks of characters doesn't bother me at all.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, I mean, I would be lying off I said
it didn't bother me. I don't. I would not. I
don't say I don't. I'm not gonna say that I
have any kind of false hope. Like I'm just fair,
just damned curious what they think is going to be acceptable.
I guess, like and I'm for a lot of people
it will be because a lot of people just don't care,
(13:50):
Like you.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Sure don't care about certain things like I care. It
bothers me when they say things that don't make sense,
Like even if I'm not a big fan of that
apples and I don't know that episode very well, it
still bothers me that two episodes exist where characters say
totally opposite things that can't be resolved. That really bothers me.
But just things like certain things don't bother me. As
(14:15):
much as they bother.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
You.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
We've had this discussion since we've been having this podcast,
you know, like like this is the same discussion we
had way back when we're talking about the ships and
the re redesigned Enterprise and stuff.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, it's I mean the whole show. This
whole show is like runs against the grain of a
monk time where a Hurrah and Nurse Chapel are both
shocked that Bach.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Is married, right sure, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So like, yeah, I mean, I know, it's not it's
it's it's odd. It's something like I was. I was
talking about the last episode where it's like in one
vein you're like, yes, I know, this is not going
to line up with the original series, and they have
actually they've actively stated this is not that's not the
Cannon anymore. But at the same time, the producers keep
(15:07):
talking about lining it up with Cannon and like, well,
we're just body checking in the canon a little bit.
We're gonna do that, We're gonna do the Cannon, And
I'm like, you know.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
You're not that that always me. It's just that's the
producers trying to keep both sides of the fandom happy
and what you're doing is not making any inside happy.
And I get it. Like if if I'm a fan
of the old Cannon and you tell me, hey, we're
starting a new Star Trek it's completely nude and doesn't
match the old canon, I wouldn't be as interested, you know,
Like if you if you tell me you're rebooting the
(15:37):
original series like and just starting over, I'm just not
that interested in that, you know. I want to see
it move forward.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Watching these like Star Wars fans, you know, complain about
their Disney shows and oh they're ruining Star Wars, Like, no,
y'all don't know how good you have it. Yeah, it's true,
y'all are keep they're they're keeping they're like doing deep fakes,
they're they're keeping the technology looking the same, they're keeping.
I mean, oh my god, just y'all don't know that
Doctor Who as well, Like, oh, y'all got it so good.
(16:07):
It's about Doctor Who fans, so I guess we got
it good. But yeah, for sure, yeah, I do kind
of wish they would do that with Star Trek. But
I don't know. This is an okay episode.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah it wasn't. It's fine, brilliant or anything.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
What do you think about Lawn and the thing from
the Dark Crystal behind her. I know it's a gorn.
I know it's supposed to be a gorn, but it
looks like those creatures from the Dark Crystal.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Oh yeah, yeah, you know. Wait, Lon did that? That
was yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
That was or take or take or take it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (16:40):
No, no, no. I was like, wait, yeah, well it gives
her something else. I was I was wondering how you
would feel about it, because I felt fine about it.
I don't know that I'm terribly interested yet, but it
does give her characters something else to go through other
than just be the I though the ship girl and
the sort of quippy nature of herself, Like maybe she
(17:06):
has a little bit of darkness going now.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, I was afraid that they were gonna go straight
from that too. Now she's just gonna be angry that
her brother is dating her friend.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Right, Yeah, that was just a playful thing they did
this episode, which they also they tease that the brother
might be getting hired to do a full time documentary,
which I'm sure he'll be stationed on the Enterprise for sure,
and we'll see more of him this season, which that'll
always fine for me. I mean, this episode started, it
seemed like that was gonna be a good B plot,
which I guess it was kind of, but it really
(17:37):
wasn't It just like introduced those characters and then drop
them for the wedding. You know, ah, you see him
at the end, but you don't really get any kind
of an arc for those characters.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Just too much going on in the episode.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Man, oh, I don't know about that. This one. I
do not agree this one. If anything, too little goes
on in this episode. It's really like, hey, there's a wedding,
two guys try to stop it, and then finally Spock
has to do an impassioned speech and that's the end.
Like it really is not U it could have been
(18:10):
like this. This seemed like it was gonna be traditional
a plot B plot thing, and then it started a
plot B plot then just dropped it. So it was
really just this single, very simple thing.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
In my opinion, Yeah, I agree with you, But what
I mean when I say too much going on? And
I don't know if you noticed this, but they basically
did they set up the brother and uhura mm hmm,
and then as soon as reality is shifted by Trelaine,
they don't go back to them until reality is shifted
(18:40):
back and Tarlaine is gone, and then they come in again,
right because they didn't want anyone going. Well, that didn't
really happen between the brother.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
And there is a moment where they're like dancing or
talking at the wedding or something like that, and maybe
that was after the shift was back. Yeah, yeah, they exactly.
They just do not that that that plot has just dropped.
I mean they've been introduced now, and I'm sure it
will continue. That he's gonna be making a documentary and
so you know, it'll it'll continue, and then we have
(19:11):
this new bartender. I guess this is interesting because it
seems like they had they finished to Jiminy Park two
and this is sort of this felt more like the
pilot for the season, season three or whatever, you know,
where they're gonna be like adding a couple of new
crew members. We've got the new nurse, we've got the
new bartender and the new cameraman.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yeah. I don't know. I'm like, if you guys are
looking to save money, paramount, probably don't introduce you know.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
No, man, I loved it. This is like Disco every
season removed every character with any kind of like prosthetics
and then introduced humans to replace them. Uh this this
is like, hey, yeah, give me a bartender with four arms.
That's cool. Like give me something neat to have in
the background. Nothing else.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I think it would. I think it's funny that they
one set up this idea that Scott he doesn't drink.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, drink, Oh he does.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, he absolutely gets a drink with that bartender, like
they order a couple of a couple of drinks.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
I was wondering about that because I don't remember his
relationship with alcohol in the original series. Did he have
any kind of like run with like either not drinking
or drinking too much?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh, he's he's a drinker.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
Okay, Okay, Well I wonder if that's what this was
supposed to be, Like he's not a drinker, and then
he's having his first little sip there and then we're
gonna go go on to that. That's that's that's kind
of fun.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole bit, and I mean, well,
he gets drunk at that one place and wolf in
the fold and you know they think he murders that woman,
and then there's by any other name. I think it
was the episode where he gets drunk. He distracts an
alien by getting him drunk, and he's like, they're just
(20:59):
drinking it up and he's like the alien is like,
what is this that Scotty's looking at it. He's like,
it's uh, it's it's uh, it's green. I remember that,
And then they did they redid that on Next Generation
when Scotty gets pulled out of that transporter buffer.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Maybe that's what I'm remembering.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
And well that was a call back to the original series.
Data's got the and Dorian whatever whatever it was. I
don't remember what it was called, but but cart knew
what it was neat all.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Right, Well, uh yeah, good episode. Not a great episode,
not not not as I said from the beginning, not
a lot of meat on the bones, but like fine,
and it was cool to hear John Delancy's voice and
to maybe expand the queuh, give give some confirmation to
some of those Q theories. At least give them another
red string to put on their board.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
H Yeah. There was a nice moment with Pike and
Betel at the beginning. It seemed to yeah, there was
reference him maybe moving in with her at some point
or well, it kind of seemed like a joke. I
was wondering, like, Iona, if they if they really go
all in with that like love plot with them. I'm
wondering what will happen after he's injured, you know, like
(22:14):
if he ends up in the chair at the end
of this series, like will she will he still be
with her and will she be taking care of him
kind of or whatever? You know, I'm wondering how they're doomed.
You think they're doomed, Well, if you go by the
original series, which I know we can't completely, but definitely
the original series, the Menagerie spots kidnaps Pike back to
(22:40):
tallow so you can live with Vienna and believe that
he's or feel like he's right.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
That's right. I forgot about that. Yep, hmmm, yeah, that
would be very undermining of that. But thinking that I
was doing slippery Slope, man, yeah, man, you can't. It's hard.
I don't know. It's hard to predict anything because I
don't know. I don't know enough about the original series.
I don't have a good enough memory for it all
(23:07):
to remember everything that it should be connected to. And
then even if I did, there's no there's no likelihood
that will connect to this. I'm like, all right, but
that feels like a pretty foundational thing. They wouldn't change
unless they change it all, unless he avoids the accident,
which is a whole different thing.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
If I if we're still alive at ten years, I
don't even think we'll be talking about this can this canon.
That's my personal thought. Yeah, Now, maybe that's because Star
Trek's gonna die, Maybe because Paramount is not doing well.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
I think that it is true we may not be
talking about this canon. But part of that is I
don't know. They're doing so much referencing of the old stuff,
and it's it's the prequel problem. Man, They're doing so
much referencing of the old stuff, and you know you're
gonna I was thinking, we wrap it up, but we're
gonna get on. I'm gonna get on a about the cannon.
(24:01):
But like and and and prequels, you get in this
place where you're trying to fit everything into the cannon.
So you're like, oh, let's explore the gorn A bunch.
Let's do a bunch more with these characters that are
already established and already are pretty fully fleshed out, and
you're adding nothing new. I mean, I think the Gorn
Battle for Better or Worse added a lot to the Gorn.
(24:25):
The Gorn could come back as this xenomorph like you know,
putting babies in people's backs or whatever, like that's that's
pretty gross, and like that could come back next next
season or like next season of like whatever in the
twenty fourth century or whatever. But yeah, man, I just
(24:47):
I feel like they're not doing enough to add to
the cannon, and even especially episodes like this where it's
literally just a redo of an original series episode. It's
not even adding to the sort of like philosophical standards
of And now now there are certain episodes like, uh,
was it fog of War? Is that the name of
that episode that I'm thinking of? Uh? Yeah, I think
(25:09):
I called it fog of War last time too, and
and I defended my my uh my take then too,
very same thing. Uh I No, I don't read anything
under the cloak of war, like I will remember that
episode forever and like the ethics discussion of it, and
like whenever they do something on Star Trek, I will
(25:31):
think back to that episode and how just like I
think of when I think of that episode, I think
back to Cisco, like on a in in the Pale Moonlight,
Like I think it's this, it's it's a through line
of like what happens when a Valiant Federation character does
a very illegal thing that he thinks is right, you
(25:51):
know what I mean, Like that's that's a cool like
those that those will always be spiritually connected and I
will always remember them both. But certain episodes are doing
he or just feel like so cookie cutter, like the
old stuff or so you know, delving into the same
mining the same material that I'm just like, I need new,
I need I need to take us to new places.
(26:13):
And that's what Star Trek's supposed to do. And that's
why I think that that's the bigger problem with the
prequel problem. We have tons of problems, and we've been
discussing the problem of keeping Cannon with a prequel, because
it either removes all the steaks or you have to
break cannon, like this is the only two options, and
or maybe not steaks. You either remove steaks or creativity.
You remove the possibility for stakes and creativity by making
(26:35):
a prequel. And that's a bummer. But the bigger bummer
for me is the fact that we're just like digging
down on the same people and characters and concepts, and
I want to see us moving forward.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah yeah, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
So anyway, well that's that's about I got to say
about this episode. I didn't hate it. I really didn't.
I enjoyed Reestarp a lot as this Trelaine character, like
I liked U. I liked him snapping and just doing
his thing, and it definitely thought Q. Immediately, I thought
this supposed to be a Q. They just won't know
it's a que, you know, and then we of course it.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Ends like it ends yeah, uh yeah, he's uh you know,
I've seen some people saying, like, oh, they never said
his name was Trelaine, so it might not be him. Sure,
Uh well, there was nothing tying, nothing about that species
that was tying them to that sort of uh look
that he had. He you know, Trelaine was obsessed with
(27:33):
that look in the Squire of Gotho's uh huh. And
I mean, you know, he said the salutations of felicitations
or whatever he said tally ho, just like Trelaine. He
was Trelaine, y'all, okay, come on, yeah, like he was
just Trelaine.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
I gotta go back and rewatch that episode. Now, all right, well, uh,
anything else.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
But no, I I just hope it gets but from here.
I didn't hate this episode, but it was also just
like it was such a shit burger of an episode.
It was such a like a what are we doing here?
Why are we doing this? It's strange new world, it's
not old ass ground.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, that's that's a fair critique. This is supposed to
be strange new world. This is supposed to be our
chance to like add new interesting things, even though though
it's pretty cool. We're supposed to be visiting new places,
doing new things, and I don't think that's what's happening yet.
The Gorn, you know, there's there's some bricks added to
the cannon in there that we can like expound on
(28:34):
two hundred years in the future.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Now, well, it's more like they went next to the
brick wall and they you know, built something out of like, uh,
you know, God, I can't even think of.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
You really, I'm really trying to overmine this metaphor.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I feel like, yeah, anyway, they built a completely different
kind of wall instead. That's also the fucking Gorn.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Whatever I'm thinking of my brain's not braining right now.
I'm sorry, y'all.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
It's okay. I'm not a.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Smart man in the first place.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
We expect very little from you, Dave, and when you
give us a little less, that's all right too.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah. What's that guy that was on all the Ricky
Gervais stuff that they made fun of all the time relentlessly.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Oh, plink it plinket. No, that's not gosh. What is
that gname? An idiot abroad?
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Is his? Well, I'm the idiot who never goes anywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yep. That indeed, Carl Pilkington. I was close, Samson, I
I'm that, but for this mm hmm, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Thanks for man.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
No, I was gonna I was gonna say, like, I
am too just for different stuff. I am too for
like stuff. It's probably more important to be making a
Star Trek podcast, like remembering what happened in older Star
Trek and like sometimes you know, if I know something's coming,
A lot of times I already watched on that older episode,
uh before we watched something, but I didn't know this
(30:16):
was coming. So like I was like, that seems like
a reference, but I don't know what it's a reference.
To right now.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, vaguely familiar. That's another problem, by the way, that
even though you don't know what the hell they're talking about,
you're watching it and you're going this feels like a reference.
I just don't know what too. Like. They should be
making episodes that stand on their own and don't feel
like they're being like, hey, guess what you're missing something
you shouldn't When you make a reference. It shouldn't feel
(30:43):
to new people like, hey, look at the reference.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
You don't get. It should feel to people who know it, like, oh,
I got what you get. I get what you're doing
the which, to be honest, like it felt like a
reference for a couple of reasons. It felt like a
reference because the style that he's invoking seemed like original
series style and like mannerisms and stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
I did want to call out one scene I really liked,
and that is there's a scene between Krby and Spock
where they're working together, and I just really liked all
all the Corby and Spock stuff, like them working together
to sort of solve the problem was good. And there's
a line I wish i'd written it down because I didn't,
and it was something like if one of our intelligences,
(31:23):
the degree of one of our intelligences, was to break
through this illusion, I assure you it would not be yours.
I'm not saying it fully. Yeah, but it was a
really good line, and they both raised their eyebrows at
each other, and I was like, that's this was good.
These two guys are good.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
I liked it up until the point where Kirby raised
his eyebrow, and then I went, oh, I liked it. Yeah,
I liked it. I liked the line, and then I
didn't like that they both had to raise their eyebrows
at each other. That was stupid to me.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Why people raise their eyebrows.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
It was just it was like in when you have
like a like a character say something off the cuff
and then they look at the dog and the dog
goes oh, Like I hate that shit. I hate it,
Like it's such a cute, sy bullshit thing to do.
They did it in the original series two, and I
hated it there, like I I hate it across all media, like, aha,
(32:22):
let's nudge the audience s box thing is raised up
the eyebrow. That's how close Korby is to be in spuck.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Ah. Well, yeah, That's what I liked about it. It
makes to me from like a he's he's, he's He's
got a few mannerisms similar, which is like maybe why
Chapel likes them both. You know, there's a little bit,
a little bit of spuck in him. But no, I
like that moment a lot.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
The great irony is that Korby himself winds up disappearing,
and then when she finds him, he's a fucking android
because Krby dies and they basically make a Corby in.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
I'm trying to see, like I recognized Corby? Do you
know what I recognize him from?
Speaker 1 (33:05):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
I'm looking at his his IMDb and he's in darreedvil
Borne again Devlin who was Devlin this this recent season. M. Yeah, okay,
that must be what I'm recognized him from. I was
trying to scan back in his IMDb to see I
don't think I've seen anything else, but obviously I've seen
(33:26):
darrevil Born again and Devlin. I'm just not placing I
think it may be he might be one of the
police officers. Maybe M there was a you know, the
corrupt police force under fists All right, man, Well, uh,
we'll be back with you guys very soon. Joel Untrue,
livelong and prosper.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or Malagius to dot tv for his web videos.
Like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out the
Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music. Just
(34:07):
search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
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