August 5, 2025 • 47 mins
Things are bleak, maman. The snake has eaten it's tail so hard it's currently licking it's chin. They have ten episodes, and they've now used one to denigrate The Original Series and re-use every tired holodeck story from the 90s series all in one. We were not amused, maman. But Paul killed it with his duel performance. Hats off on that one, maman.
Episode Reviewed: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x04 - "A Space Adventure Hour"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Matthew Carroll
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues Dave and Matt's ongoing journey discussing Star Trek as they have since the late1980s.
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Episode Reviewed: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x04 - "A Space Adventure Hour"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Matthew Carroll
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues Dave and Matt's ongoing journey discussing Star Trek as they have since the late1980s.
Join Us:
Site: http://startrekucast.com
Apple: http://bit.ly/StuCast
Spotify: http://bit.ly/StarTrekUCast
Spreaker: http://bit.ly/StuCastSpreaker
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, the snake continues
to eat its tail as Strange New World's recycles the
Holidack fail. We're talking Strange New Worlds three oh four,
a space adventure hour. Right after these words from our
mystery sponsors, Welcome to.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Star Trek Universe, the podcast we can listen in on
two lifelong friends and chat about Star Trek. Money's Matthew Carroll.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm David c. Robertson, Hey Dave, hey man.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We had to record really late last week because we
had a lot going on and this week that kind
of pushed this week's episode a little later too, So
we're gonna think we're gonna keep it short because we
want to get back on track here. But uh and
because I honestly just have almost nothing to say about
this episode. I am. I think this might be my
(00:54):
least favorite episode of Strange New Worlds.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It is pretty up there for me, Like I disliked
it quite heavily.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Like it's it feels like nothing. It's not even like bad.
It feels like nothing to me and I and I
and I really hate coming on here and just shit
talking Star Trek. I fucking love Star Trek. Yeah, and
like there's just nothing here. It's a it's a mystery
(01:24):
story where the mystery is given such little bones that
there's no way to figure it out or really even
think through it. It's it's a twist ending that comes
out of nowhere, and there's really no way to like
sort of work your way to you know what I mean.
It's a fan service Holidack episode that is in my opinion,
(01:49):
completely meaningless. Like it's not like even I mean, it's
kind of it's it's telling us like they basically it'd
be one thing if it was like the guy who
invented the holiday for them, like coming up with some
piece of the Holidack that like made it work or
something like that, which I guess it kind of is.
But it's just about the power levels the Holidak draws.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But also in Discover, we were told that they ripped
out everything in the enterprise that would allow for any
holograms to be on the enterprise. And they were like,
a hologram will never be on the enterprise ever. Again
that's true. Well I think they you know, temper Wars, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
They're talking about well you say that's talking about the
hologram communications arrays or whatever. This is a holidack, which
is different, but it also again, I mean, I guess
this this episode sort of further confirms his decision was correct,
Like they're not ready for holograms apparently.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, and I got I don't know. They're like, oh, well,
we'll call it the recreation center like they did on
the rec room or whatever they did on.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
The animated series. Uh huh, like or holideck for short.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I don't know, have that's short.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But whatever, Yeah, she says the recreation room and then
she's and then he says, no, it's holidack for short,
and then it's like, that's not short like you said,
and recreation rooms, yeah, I don't know. I mean that's
what they called it on the animated series. That's why
they said that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That's the only reason they said that, right, which is
fine except as not I just I you know, they've
gone beyond the point of playfully jabbing the original series
and now they're just making fun of the original series.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, I agree, I agree they have that opening. The
opening scene is almost offensive.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Now, what I did like about this though, it is offensive,
But what I did like. What I did like is
Paul Wesley did a really good Kirk. Yes, I agree,
a really good original series Kirk. But then also during
the holiday like the murder mystery segment, did a really
good William Shatner, And there is the difference.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, I see that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I see that.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's fun. That's fun. And I'm assuming that it was
supposed to be gene Rod Barry, some version of Geen
roden Berry Pike was playing, and then some version of
Lucille Ball absolutely which absolutely, yeah, I love that. I
think it's it's very cool. All of that is very cool,
and it's like it's just this is the most meta
(04:18):
episode with almost no content actually in the episode, it's
a bunch of references to things that like if you
don't know, like if you don't know Star Trek, you
don't care about the Holidack, if you don't know the
behind the scenes of Star Trek, you don't really care
about these like characters that they're parodying. It is oh man,
(04:39):
it is like you said it in the intro. It's
the snaking. It's on tail to the point that like
I am just I'm not interested at all. This is
my least favorite strangling World's episode the.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Snake has not eat his tail so much that is
licking a motherfucking jaw line man. Yeah, like it's awful.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I just like this more than any Discovery episode. I
think this show has had like more meat on the
bones in every episode, more things to struggle with, more
things for the characters to do. For the most part,
more characters, more more uh, exploration of more characters and
how they interact. Like I think this show has been
better about that. But like, there was never I can't
(05:16):
think of a Discovery episode that meant this little. It
was kind of mind boggling how little it meant yestly. Yeah,
and even like if it had been just a cool
mystery episode. I love an escape room and so I
got into this Like the first I was like, okay,
it's the murder mystery episode. There have been shows that
(05:37):
have done this really well. What are you gonna give me?
Give me cool murder mystery. Nothing then no, no analysis
of the murder. No, like they talked about the motives
of the characters just because they wanted to talk about
the characters who were representations of real life people. That's
all this was. And I was just like, what are
they doing, like it's understandable to be meta and throw
(05:59):
a little Easter eggs in for the fans, like the
seal ball. That was really fun, Like, uh, Rebecca remained
playing the seal ball, like that's that's a neat idea,
but like, what the hell are you doing with this?
Like having having nothing in the episode to support it, no, like,
and the only kind of neat idea was the fact
that Spock was a hologram. But that is such a
(06:21):
terrible twist because you did nothing to set it up.
And I knew they were.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Gonna do it too. The whole time. I'm sitting there
going like, yeah, that's not a real spot. This is
this is I'm there going like, oh, this is because
she figured out enough that the program is going to
try to, you know, up the ante. They did the
same thing in the Next Generation when they were like, uh,
create an adversary smart enough to defeat data, and they
(06:48):
you know, that was the wrong way to word it,
because turned the whole fucking Holidays sentient.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Right right. Well, And I watched this one twice because
I'm sorry. The second time I double speed because I
watched it when it first came out, and then We
took a couple of days to get to it, and
I was like, I feel like I need to rewatch
it because it felt like nothing to me. Surely there
was something there to grab onto. I watched the second time. No,
there wasn't. But I will say that the one thing
they did do to set it up is that she
(07:14):
was wearing a monitor on herself during their dance scene
at the beginning that was supposed to be tracking her
like life and emotions and like things like that to
like understand her better. Yeah, which I mean, I guess
that's the real thing. The meat of this episode is
she realized she like Spock and Spock likes her, and
now they're together.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You can call it the meat.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't want to. I don't
even talking about this, like I've been not wanting even
one podcast about it because I'm so annoyed by this episode.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah. And it was directed by Jonathan Frakes. Oh really absolutely,
it was like total total waste of Jonathan Frakes. In
my opinion, I agree completely.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I think I see why he would want to do it, Like,
I see why he'd be like, ah, it's history of
Star Trek. You I'm such a he's such a like
a storied star trek director and celebrity, and like I
see why him reading and knowing these people from all
the con circuits and stuff, like he would want to
do this episode. But like it's a failure, Like I
(08:13):
haind this is gonna be a complete failure. And I'm sorry,
Like I have not felt less like sitting down to
podcast about something in this episode. I think I'm so
annoyed by it.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I felt the same way, but you know part of
that was, you know, I was so frustrated with it
that I said something on Threads on Threads about like
how I felt like this uh season has really taken
a nose dive in quality, and I just got a
bunch of people like, don't state your opinion of fact.
There's mad and I'm like, fuck you, Like I shouldn't
(08:47):
have to. You know, in college, you know, I took
writing courses, and you know, one of those big rules
they taught you is like, this is your opinion. Is
that's clear. You don't have to write in my opinion
or I think.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, it's threads, it's not a it's not a piece
of journalism. Yeah, y and threads. You're it's a microblog.
What are you talking about? Everything you say is your
opinion on there, unless you say unless you are a
citizen journalist or whatever, like this is just that's your opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
But also I was just like, so, I've already been
kind of inundated with some aggravating fandom today, but you know,
I was also like, ah, man, I'm just gonna be like,
I hate this. I hate the way that they made
fun of Tos, and Matt's not gonna agree with me.
I don't know if I can handle that today.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh no, they completely made fun of Tos Like I'm
not offended because I'm I don't. I don't. I don't
get offended that offended. But it was like it was
just terrible. It wasn't like like they could have done
that lovingly and still been funny. They could have done
a loving send up of Star Trek where it's like
there are things that are funny about Star Trek absolutely,
(09:57):
and none of it is that they say things like
I don't know the lines that they were just so terrible.
They did not feel like they were trying to write
a scene from the original series, which is what they
were sort of like pretending to do Yeah it was
it was a bad SNL sketch. Yes, it was a
bad sketch, and just did all it just.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It did all the things that I would expect for
them to take away from the original series based on
how they have changed everything leading up to the original series, Like, oh,
this is what you think of the original series for real?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Oh yeah, I see that as a person like yourself
who feels like they should not be changing so much.
They should be leaving the technology in place, and they
shouldn't be trying so hard to update the other relationships
and the whatever, Like you see a reason for them
to maintain even You've talked the past about how they
could have even like a backlash to feminism. It could
(11:00):
like cause them to have to be struggling for for
female captains and stuff like, yeah, that would line up
more of the original series. Like if they're struggling for ideas,
which based on this show, I'm saying they probably are
because Jesus Christ, the stupid silly shit they've been doing.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Mmm, Like there's a ton of like interesting dynamic, Like
we as a society in America, we are experiencing a
situation where we are walking back women's rights. Yeah, the
Star Trek is supposed to be a mirror for today,
and they're just not doing it. They're making fucking stupid
funny episodes that aren't even really funny. Sorry, that's my
(11:41):
little rant.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, no, I'm with you. I found this not funny.
I found it not clever. I found the mystery to
be really empty. So uh yeah, I don't even really
want to talk about it anymore. Like if we have didd.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Ste right in, yeah, yeah, we had a couple of
people right in.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh oh wow, I'm scared. Oh no, no, no, no, I'm
scared in both directions if they're if they're positive, i'll
feel bad about how bad I feel about this episode.
And if they're negative, it's just gonna be a big pylon.
So here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, well, I don't read Stu's so I don't know.
I don't read call we're doing the show. But Andre
did read. I don't know why I have a social
contract with Stue and not read as.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
As you don't want to like unlock that brain train
that makes you switch gives him control? Hm hmm, that
old joke.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Uh yeah, Andre Sparks says, hey, guys, I really liked
that episode. It was funny and interesting. That that is
the Space Adventure hour. It was funny and interesting. I
love seeing Kirk back playing og Kirk. Basically I couldn't
stop laughing. That I have stated in my in my opinion,
like yeah that I that was the best part of
(12:55):
the episode for me was watching Paul Wesley do both
O G. Kirk and William Shadow. Yeah and yeah, that
is cool. He did a really good job of that.
Andre says, I loved how we got to see what
was going on in the real world and how the
holid deck prototype affected the ship in the end, it
explains why we don't see it again for a while.
I like the footnote of needing its own server and
(13:15):
power supply because that comes up a lot on TNG,
mostly being a helpful extra source of power in case
of emergency. Lastly, spot getting all the ladies on the
ship mind blown. Wonder how that will play out. Hope
we get more Kirk next week. Glad you guys are back. Ps.
I really liked the Starfleet Academy trailer. Dude, I love
(13:37):
Andre Sparks.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, Andre Is is a real one and he he
loves this stuff, even when I hate it, and it
always makes me view the things where like, Okay, maybe
I'm being too hard on this, Maybe I could take
a step back, because he's right about the Kirk stuff,
the Kirks, and you had already said it, like the
Kirk stuff is great and the and yeah the him
(13:59):
playing chatter thought about that, but you're totally right, like
that's shit. His Shatner is is different and spot on,
Like that's really funny. Who else was in there? Who
else was in the in the in there that had
an analog in real life that I'm missing because that's
about all I got.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Just uh Anson Mount playing Gene Roddenberry, which was right. Oof,
that was a weird one.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, it was. I don't know anything about Geen Rodenberry,
Like I know what he looked like, Yeah, I don't
think I've seen interviews with him and definitely don't know
what he would have been like in person in life,
So so I just yeah, I just wonder, well.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
They kind of played on I mean, they played with
the the actual timeline of it and everything like because
he was like, oh they were letting me go so
and that's not really that's not how that went down
in real life. With the original series, there was a
whole in the movies. It was where they didn't after
the most picture, they didn't want Gene involved, and uh,
(14:54):
he got real petulant and started leaking shit and whatever, gotcha,
and then wouldn't let them do a next generation without him.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, But.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
As for mannerisms, based on interviews, I would say Anson
Mountain didn't do a great job, but I don't know.
I read that apparently he was insistent on studying Gene
rodden Berry and doing that version of it. So whatever, if.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You're gonna do it, go for it. Like I feel like,
if you're gonna go for it, make this episode as
as much of a tribute to that as you can.
I did laugh when he said, but my vision, Yeah,
in general, you know, the idea is there. Like if
(15:45):
this if it had worked on any of the levels,
I feel like I would have liked it. If the
mystery had been cool, I would have liked it. If
the risk outside the ship felt cool to me, I
might have liked it. Like if they'd focused more on that,
and she's just in there doing a mystery that's a
little less interesting, but there's interesting. But this was just like, hey,
there's swirly lights on the screen and they're dangerous. Like
(16:07):
there's just no like decisions being made outside except for Scotty.
I like the Scotty stuff. Okay, you know Scotty and Scotty.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, all right, we got stull little here says. You
know what they say about Holodeck episodes after the first one,
they write themselves. I don't have much snark to say
for this one, as I was a most it was
mostly a fun take on a Holideck episode, though I
think the climax of the mystery could have been quote
(16:36):
unquote bigger and less rushed, given who done. It's usually
have scenes with all the suspects together as the detectives
runs down or the detective runs down the explanation. There
is also the fact that a Holodeck episode in twenty
twenty five has a whole other connotation, as the premise
is how the is now the logical conclusion of AI
generated content, and you would think a writer might want
(17:00):
to get into that more given the threat it poses
to their own job. But we just get the usual
technical difficulty being a problem, rather than the idea of
the creative limitations of the technology and the moral implications.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
They play out there. I love that, Stu. That's a
great idea that in this episode is perfectly set up
for it. And that could have been the end of
the episode where they're deciding what they're gonna do with
the with the Holidack. They could have been like, it
is not we are not ready for AI generated ones.
We need to keep writers writing these and like return
(17:34):
it to like the Holland novels, Like, yes, Halla novels
are important. We can't just let the AI run wild,
you know what I mean, like, just go for it.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And there's that holding up a mirror to our society
thing I was talking about exactly Trick used to do.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Also, they just had an AI try to destroy the
Federation three years ago, so yeah, keep it on separate
servers or whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Like yep still continues. They don't even consider the idea
that it was wrong to use people's likenesses without their
permission YEP, which has always been a weird Star Trek thing.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Oh well, I feel like no, I don't think so.
I feel like they did that very like the Barkley episode,
right where he goes in and he's got the crew,
they they they used it to talk about it, they
were like, is not cool, Like this is this is
weird and creepy and not cool. Like I think in
the past they've when a crew member has used other
(18:35):
crew members, it has been a creepy thing.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
It has been a creepy thing. But the way they
addressed it was like Riker smiling, smiling knowingly at somebody else.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Like, oh, right, they will kind of Barkley. Barkley gets
a lot of crap because I feel like Riker might
do the same thing, but he'd be like, look what
I did. And Barkley because he's kind of like a weird,
geeky guy, he's like, oh, that's creepy when he does it.
He doesn't have a wry smile anyway.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Lawn slash Spock pairing is fine, though it's furthering the
problem of how in Space Seed they have to look
up NOONI and Sing in historical databases to know anything
about him. If Spock banged the guys great great great
great great great great great great great granddaughter, they also
once again had the new incident without identifying him. I
actually looked up his name, but I'm not going to
(19:29):
mention it until they do well, Stu. As far as
you know, Spock having a look look con uh Noonyan
Sing is like Smith in the future.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
That's not true. It's not It's not true at all.
They've talked about it when I think, I think when
she was in the first season one, I think they
talk about how like it's weird that she's a nudian
sing and like she has to live it down or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
But you know, last season's Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow
actively erase space Seed. There is no space Seed. It
happens slightly differently. Maybe they don't look it up. Maybe
Spock was like, oh yeah, that bitch. I don't know
right right, but the original series did not happen the
way we saw.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It according in relation to this anyway, it just can't.
Like like I was wondering how in space Seed that
happened because it's been so long, But like I was
wondering if if Spock was the one to be like
the Nonian Sing was about, like maybe he like had
the information because of this relationship, or maybe you know,
Spock is so uh private.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
At times. Yeah, Nie Oy's Spock is so private at times.
This dude on this show he tells everybody everything.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But like nieme oy Spot, like you go thirty years
and all of a sudden, it is like I have
a brother, what you know? Yeah, so you know, he
might just be like, oh yeah, we looked his face up.
I never saw his face. I just fucked his granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I didn't know, but yeah, that's him, that's crazy. He
was the guy. Yeah, so I looked him up. We've
confirmed it.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Kirk is not going to like stop and be like, Spot,
did you ever have intercourse with his great great great
great great great great granddaughter.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
But there were still only a few hundred years removed
from the Eugenics wars, like, and he was the you know,
the the main guy in that. I guess it just
seems like that would be a thing everyone would know. Yeah,
I don't know. We're uh, not nearly that far away
from slavery, but you know.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
We don't. You go on like they have those Ancestors
shows or whatever where they're like going back, they're like,
oh yeah, like four generations ago, your people own slaves,
and they're.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Like no, well sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So it's like you're not gonna know everything.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
No, of course not. But a lot of times. You like,
if someone's name is rare, like Nonian and sing, like,
you know, you might go any relation. If someone came
and met me today and said their name was John Hitler,
I'd go just a quick question, yes, yes, on Hitler.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
But you know, apparently con was like the best of
the dictators, like he treated his people really well, supposedly
m according to space scene, So like, you know, maybe
it's not like that egregious. It's just like, oh, yeah,
there was that one guy who just disappeared. We don't
know what happened to him.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Ah, Okay. I thought they were banished or whatever. I
don't remember. I don't know. I'd go back and watch
all this stuff. I thought that they were banished after
they like tried to take over the world or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
No, I mean, well they were all there was the
It was the Eugenics Wars, which Star Trek has ret
conned into World War Three, when originally in the canon
it was two separate things m hm. But it was
basically mankind versus the the Augments, and the right was
on the wall, as I remember it, the writing was
(23:02):
on the wall that humanity was gonna be the winner
of this instead of the augments and con and his
people got in a ship a sleepership and flew into
outer space, gotcha, and like cryogenically frozen until a new day.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Okay. Yeah, for some reason I thought it was them
getting shipped off that way. But yeah, you're that's cool, Okay, Okay,
let's get back to this. To this feback, sorry, that's
say I was it was it? Okay? Thanks to Yeah,
he didn't have a lot to say about this one either. Yeah,
that's the thing. I didn't mean to get on here
and be so negative. I feel negatively, but I also
(23:44):
just felt like there's just nothing to talk about here.
It just feels so empty to mean.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, and I'm aggravated that. Of course, the holiday malfunctions
in exactly the same way that it always fucking malfunctions
on the show, right where it's like, oh, well, safety
protocols are off, let's get out of here. Oh, it's just.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You have to plan, you have to keep playing the
thing to be able to exit. Like, yeah, it just
seems like you could write a different kind of story
in the holiday. There's just seems like there could be.
And that's and that's I think in general with strange
New Worlds Like what disappoints me. The episodes I really
love are the ones that write new, interesting Star Trek episodes,
and the ones that I find are meaningless are the
(24:23):
ones that are recapping old Star Trek episodes.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I would be much kinder towards this episode if we
did have twenty six or twenty four episodes, but we don't.
We have ten.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Rites, right, eh, yep, I agree. I think about it.
Show like The Orville, which I've talked about a lot.
It is it does this where it does an old
Star Trek episode almost exactly, but then they always do
something different with it. They always put a twist on it.
They always make the stakes a little higher. They they
(24:52):
allow for things that Star Trek didn't allow for. And
that's what makes it interesting, is like taking can be
the exact same idea, but then you're like, oh, but
we're not going to steer away from this thing that
Star Trek kind of avoided. We're gonna like steer directly
into the controversy or the interesting thing about that reflects
our world today. Like that's what I like about The Orville.
(25:13):
There are definitely crappy episodes of The Orville two, but like,
for the most part, that's the goal of the show,
and I think that should be the goal of this show.
If you're going to do an episode that is very
similar to an old Star Trek episode, think about where
they didn't go and go there. We don't just keep
doing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, freakes, oh freaks. Yeah, I don't. I'm just I
am not in sync with the producers of this show,
the writers and producers of the show. I just I
feel like they are squandering what little time they may
have left ye with these with this universe and these characters,
because I'm like, god, there are so many great things
(25:52):
they could be saying in this day and age. Mm hmm,
and they're just making silly bullshit. Yeah, it's one thing
when it's Lower Decks and that's their intention. But Lower
Decks was still like having good points to their shows, Like.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, I agree, somehow it was more in tune with
the themes of Star Trek than this is. Sometimes this
is just just the silly jokes and like, I don't know, man,
why why has it got to be that way?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Well, the great thing about Lower Decks is like they
were also holding up they were making fun of Star Trek.
And but the characters themselves were fans of Star Trek.
They were fans of They were obsessed with these people
from the past and who did all these great things.
They were obsessed with previous Star Trek officers. And they
kind of showed us that through a lens of fandom,
(26:42):
making fun of us and how we react to certain
things in fandom in the univers I and but also
held up a mirror to our society as well and
things that we were going through. And I just don't
I feel like World said, oh, they're doing silly stuff
(27:03):
and kind of missed the point.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
You predicted that last season that you were worried that, uh,
the strange New Worlds would take from lower decks and
and and I think you are. You're not wrong. You're
not wrong, Like I I I at the time was like, no,
I love what Strange World is doing. And I did,
and I I fear you were. You were prescient, sir,
(27:27):
Your comments were prescient.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I mean that's usually what happens.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
You look at the you know, led Zeppelin, great band,
they gave they gave birth to hair metal. Can't completely
forgive them for that. Man, people take the worst parts
of a thing and run with it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I'm looking at oh Man dang. I was looking at
the writers of this episode, like who wrote it? Because,
like I said, freaks directed it. And the first writer
Dana Horgan has written on his top four were Our
Supergirl and Once Upon a Time, which that should just
tell you enough totally. But then I looked up Catherine Lynn,
(28:09):
who has written oh never mind. I was looking at
what she'd written, and she wrote off she an episode
of Lower Decks, which is cool. And then I saw
a movie on her IMDb called Mister Wright, which I love.
I love that movie. It's really good. It's Anna Kendrick
and gosh, I'm so bad this with This guy's name
always escapes me and it's always it. I'm gonna click
(28:32):
on the thing if I know it's it's a guy.
I'm gonna be feeling really dumb for not remembering because
it's always it's always on the tip of my brain.
Sam Rockwell. I cannot remember his name for the life
of me. I can never remember his name either. There's
two guys. It's Sam Rockwell and the guy who was
just in Fallout, the guy with no nose and Fallout.
(28:53):
You know, what I'm talking.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
About, Oh, Walton Goggins.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yes, For some reason, Sam Rockwell and Walton Goggins occupy
this same space in my brain they have. They have
one brain cell that's trying to hold both of them
in my brain because they're very they're very similar character actors.
They both have like a certain suaveness to them, and
like they're in the new season of White Lotus together,
and my brain cell was that one brain cells was
having a real problem keeping them on the screen at
(29:18):
the same time. But but yeah, that movie Mister Right
with Anna Kendrick and Sam Rockwell was a weird sort
of offbeat indie indie flick that was made and I
had not heard of it. I just saw it on
Hulu one day or something and I was like, man,
this is great, totally up my alley. It was a
good hit Man romantic comedy, which is my favorite genre,
(29:38):
and then uh it. But I never heard of it,
no one else. I never heard anyone talk about it
or anything.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I never even heard anyone talk about Hitman romantic comedies
except for you. I know I, and I'm like, there's
like two of them in the world. Whatever. You just
mentioned a cross point blank.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
The Big Hit.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I love The Big Hit, but I don't know that.
I I wouldn't categorize it as a romantic comedy because
there's too much infidelity going on. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's a comedy and it's really infidelity does not preclude
it being a romantic comedy.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
But the thinking about man, like the.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Underage girl that he kidnaps, Yeah, that is that is
a bit weird, to be honest, I.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Haven't seen he's a bad guy.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
He's a bad guy.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
He is a good guy.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Hit but like it's a hit Man romantic comedy. They
don't end up together, but him and his like fiance
are like yelling while they're being attacked and like he's
dealing with her parents. Like it's all these romantic comedy
setups mixed with hitman shit, and I love that really
And Avery Brooks, Every Brooks, isn't that Every great war
Ink is another one which is a gross, point blank
(30:47):
spiritual sequel.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Did you ever see that? I did watch War inc
And I did enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I don't It never occurred to me that it was
a romantic comedy of really any sort. Oh, it's totally
a hit man romantic comedy. I think Mister and Missus
Smith is a hit man romantic comedy.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, I don't like that one.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
No, I think it's great, and the new series is
really good too. I feel like that's less of a romance,
it's more of a romantic dramedy. I would say, uh,
the new Mister and Missus Smith, and there's a there's
a lot of movies like that. I think. I just
like the sort of relationship, family dynamic put into the
stakes of oh gosh, this isn't exactly a hip man
(31:26):
but it is. I will just say it's a hip
man romantic comedy, and that's that. A Jamie Lee Curtis
and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tom Arnold. True Lies, that's another one.
It's a great genre. I don't know what you're talking about.
Only two of them. There's a ton of them. Those
are the those are the top lines. When I can
pop up up my head.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
See you like True Lies? I would take as more
of a action action movie parody.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Hmmm, I would not. I don't think it's parody at all.
I mean, yes, okay, okay, there's one scene that is
clearly there's one scene that's there's one scene in that
movie is almost top.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
The dance. Is that what you're talking about? No dance
second she falls dance.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Oh no, I love that scene. I think that scenms
beautiful and cute.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Saying it's not good, I'm saying it's a parody. I
don't think it's really like a comedy like satire parody
type of thing. It's just like ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
To me, that's just comedy. That's not farst. That's not farst,
that's not that's not over the top parody. To me.
That is Jamie Lee Curtis is a housewife who's trying
to be uber sexy spy lady, and it's really cute
and she's dancing. I think that's just that's just pure comedy.
The one scene in that movie, and am I remembering
this correctly? Is this in this movie? I don't know
(32:42):
every damn thing I've said about you've corrected. Basically, Jamie
Lee Curtis, I think drops a gun down the stairs
and it flips down the stairs and kills all the terrorists.
I think that happens in one of the scenes at
the end of the movie where she's trying to escape
the terrorists. She's running and she drops a gun and
I believe it falls down the stairs and while falling,
(33:02):
goes off and kills all the terrorists in the room.
And then he I don't looks at it like that
that that moment is parody, But the rest of it,
I think it's pure like action comedy and Hitman romantic comedy.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well, by your definition, then shoot him Up as a
hit Man comedy.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
No, shoot him ups parody. I mean he's killing people.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Except it's fucking not. The director and thought it was
a serious movie, dude. Me and Jason watched that movie
and howl, like I introduced it to him because I've
already seen I think with you, and we were like,
like me and Jason are howling through this movie through
Shoot Him Up. And then we watched the special features
and like the director is like just like totally, like
(33:45):
he believes that it is absolutely a serious action movie.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, I hear you, but he's wrong, Like, I don't
know what wrong that is. That is parody through and through.
I mean, parody can be in the eye of the holder,
But like, I think that he is wrong on that one.
I I feel not to express my opinion as fact
or anything, right, but no, mister Wright is an underrated
(34:12):
one and Tim Roth as the bad guy. Anna Knderlay
the bad guy. Uh, lie to me, it's a good ship.
It's a it's his Uh he's he's very good in
lie to me.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
There are multiple episodes. Therefore it is he is.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
A bad guy.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
What do you mean he is a villain in my
mind because because you can't me to watch multiple things.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah, but no, I just loved that
Anna Kendrick, Sam Rockwell and Tim Roth all like as
the main three in that movie. You're really good. Yeah. Anyway, uh, anyway,
we we way went off rails. I looked at Danel
We got passionate. We did, we did, we got excited.
It's something there's there's fun things to talk about here.
(34:59):
But no, I looked at up uh one of the writers,
Katherine Lynn, who wrote on this episode. She's also wrote
for the Lower Decks. And then I saw mister Wright
in her little four top four and I was like,
oh my gosh, she wrote, mister Wright, that's amazing. I
love that movie and no one even knows it. That's
so cool. And then I looked at it. She's additional crew.
Oh yeah, yeah, so she got somebody a coffee or something,
(35:22):
right exactly, she did something else other than write it,
which yeah, so yeah, oh well, I just think this
episode is uh is this of Star Trek is a stinker?
I'm sorry. I'm sorry to feel that way. I really am.
I don't like I just don't like podcasting about like
things and just shit talking them. And I feel like
(35:43):
this this season a Stranger Worlds, which was super exciting
for me. I was really excited to get back to
my favorite of the Star Trek series right now. Mm
hmm it and it's not living up to what I want.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, you know, I do, There's I have, there are
two wolves and every man. No. I I always feel
bad about not having a nice opinion about a thing,
but you know, just like how like I didn't have
a nice opinion about a thing and a bunch of
(36:15):
people tried to bully me into being quiet about it.
I think, fuck you if you don't like it, like
I'm so, I am actually genuinely so glad. If you
enjoyed this episode, if you've enjoyed the previous episodes of
Strange New Worlds, if you're just you know nothing, but
you nothing in your eyes with stars and glitter dust,
like I'm so happy for you, but you know, we
(36:37):
also come on this show and we have I feel,
rational reasons for why we don't like what we have disliked. Yeah,
we're not getting on here, going go wote, go broke.
We're not being hateful about anything. We are genuinely sad
that we didn't enjoy a star.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Exactly. It really is incredibly disappointing. I I just want,
I want, I want it to be so good, and
I don't know if I'm like part of me is
like am I do? I Are my standards too high?
And I went wanting everything to be under the cloak
of war and like I'm not, I'm but I'm not
(37:21):
I'm not. I feel like I am totally fine with
like you know, equality adjusting and the different Looking back
at the season, I think, you know, Hegemony Part two
was pretty good, Like wasn't it wasn't terrible. I enjoyed it.
We we we should talk to the regular things we
should talk on the show. But like I like it,
(37:42):
but then like you know, uh, wedding bell Blues and
shuttle to CONFORI were like just had big focus problems
and now this is like the most underdeveloped episode to me,
Like it feels like they had an idea and they
ran with it and didn't like go go back and
edit it or something like they didn't know. They're like, hey,
(38:02):
it's it's it writes itself. I feel like they they
they did the thing they thought they joked about in
this episode.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
My wife is catching up on this season, and I
wound up like in Wedding Bell Blues, more than I
did initially. Okay, good, but the same. I still had
the same problems. I just liked it a little bit more,
you know what I mean, Like, yeah, I think I
just like Reese Davies a little more. I was like, yes, okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, yeah, roll Reese Davies is pretty great.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, he's pretty great. And that wasn't one of my
biggest issues with the with the season. Like, my biggest
issue is that it's just a throwaway episode. It's like
a cute Hey, here's the thing, let's reference an old thing.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yeah, It's like you don't have to swing between throwaway
episodes that are only jokes and then like season hinging
war like episodes.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
You know, yeah, but that's what they're doing right now.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I know, I know, and I that's like I love
Under the Cloak of War because it is such a
serious episode with like lots to it, but it doesn't
really hinge on the rest of the show. Like the
rest of the show moves on without it, you know
what I mean, Like it doesn't it doesn't matter to
the rest of the show that Aminga did that, you know,
And like that's what I think is so cool, Like
have more of those episodes.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I feel like you should. You should know your genre
a little more. Like I like when they mix genres
to some degree, but it feels like they're like, here
are here's the checkbox of all the things we've got
to do on a Star Trek show. Let's let's do
you know, a musical episode, Let's do a holiday episode,
(39:37):
Let's do a puppet show, let's do all a zombie show.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Like eactly, exactly, Like be confident in the fact that
you are Star Trek and make good Star Trek, like
you don't have to make every episode. Like part of
Star Trek is making every episode something cool and different.
And I think that's cool and I don't mind that,
but like, yeah, I agree with you. I think they're
(40:02):
they're they're fighting too hard against being just what Star
Trek is, and in this episode particularly like making fun
of what Star Trek is so that they can then
subvert it. And yeah, I just I just wish they
could celebrate it and and take take the piss out
of it every once in a while. But like, yeah,
(40:23):
have have fun with respect. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, And it's just I haven't been feeling that. But
also like they're so concerned with I don't know, making
their characters cuddly fan favorites that they kind of take
away some of their some of their agency, and some
of their seriousness as Starfleet officers sometimes too. It is
a weird it's a weird brew for me.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Well, I think like I'm think about this in relationship Discovery,
and it's like Discovery was its own thing to the
point that I could really forgive it for ha ha,
forgive it for not a terrible thing. But I could
forgive it for not being traditional Star Trek like I
could forgive it much more for being like it is
(41:09):
not episodic, because that's not what the show is. It
is not about the whole crew. It is about a character.
It is like it is about these weird problems and
they keep jumping around from the future to other timelines,
and like going with it was weird and I at times,
at times I think I bristled at that, but eventually
(41:32):
I settled in too, like this is just a different
thing and I'm gonna enjoy it for what it is.
This show because it's so connected to the original series,
and it is the week to week and fologistic like
ship based show that is like has a captain and
a crew and literally the same crew from the original series.
Like it's really hard for me to separate and not
(41:56):
constantly go back to compare because as much as we
did some of this during Discovery, like I don't remember
feeling so like this just doesn't feel like they're trying
to do Star Trek Like I think maybe I felt
that at the beginning of Discovery, but then I quickly
was like, oh no, they're just in choosing to do
something different in the Star Trek universe, and I'm more
okay with that than being like, this is your week
(42:18):
to week Star Trek show, that is it happening on
the Enterprise and we're just gonna make silly shit every
app every week.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So my issues with Discovery, like I
give I give Discovery so much of a pass because
like after their first season, they lost their show run.
Well before their first show There's first season started, they
lost their show runner. Yeah, got a new show runner.
At the end of the first season, they lost their
(42:47):
second show runner, and then they did the second season,
they lost another show runner because all these people were
doing fucked up shit and or having uh they're either
being abusive to staff or they were you know, creative differences,
so like it took him a few seasons to get
what they were doing. But then they like jump the
(43:10):
crew into the far flung Pure and they specifically said
it was to get away from from can Cannon. Yeah,
I And they weren't expecting strange dual worlds or Pike
and all that to be such a such a big
deal and the fan favorite thing. So they launched them
(43:31):
into the future to get away from Cannon and then
start a show right where they left off in the
same century. Like, right, that doesn't make any sense, Like
you're trying to get away from Cannon, we youar prequel?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Well that's that's Disco's Disco's choice. But then we liked
it so much and we were on board, and I
still am. I still want to. I like the first
two seasons the show, and I want this season to
get better. Maybe it will, but I'm I'm I'm getting
nervous because we're four episodes in. I like one of them, Okay.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Maybe I like all of them, Okay, except for this one,
and then I think I like a jim Any part
part two. But then we still got the freaking coming
soon four and a half Vulcans, And I'm like, that's
another way that I think I cannot imagine based on
the one scene they've released that I'm gonna have anything
(44:23):
they'll say positive about that episode. I would be so
annoyed the whole time that the cannon feels so broken
by that episode. But maybe maybe there's some line that
makes it make sense. I'm just hopeful that they'll do something.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I'm telling you, the only thing that makes it anything
makes sense is tomorrow. Tomorrow, and tomorrow there is no
cannon anymore. Sure it's all madness.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, but that's that doesn't that's not true, because yes
there's no cannon, but that doesn't mean Vulcans don't work
like vulcans work. Sure, sure, that's what. That's what.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
It doesn't some bullshit. The temporal war happened, and now
vulcans don't work like vulcans work. Now, maybe in the
future episode they'll go back and between temporal war, faction
will go and do another thing, and vulcans will work
the same way they used to work.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
But yeah, no, I don't buy that. There are there
are ways you can mess with the timeline and fudge
things around, and the show is playing with that directly.
They've done Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow, that's the one where she
goes back with con right.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Then there's also the episode that believes the end of
first season where Pike jumps forward in time and deals
with that that week forward in time or whatever.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
I think that happened before tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. Yeah,
the Balance of Terror episode. Maybe it was a finale,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Know, it was the finale. It was the finale of
season one?
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Oh was it?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I believe? I believe so. Yeah, then it was before
I believe so. So that is also playing with this
idea that not necessarily that the timeline has changed, but
we have the ability to change it, and Pike is
making that choice. So like, I'm okay with these little
timeline changes, but it is a very different thing to
say that Vulcans and don't need the culinar to become emotionless.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, or that is just you know, oh, we're Vulcans now,
so now we're emotionless. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Vulcans go through tons of training before even the colonar.
The colonar purchase all emotions.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, well, that's that's what I mean. I'm just talking
about the practice of of purging your emotions that they
go through for years of study that culminates in the colinar.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah, Like I'm just saying, like, that is not what
they're doing here, and it annoys me that that's what
they're doing. Anyway, let's get out of here. We've talked
way longer than I intended to. How you doing, Yeah, yeah,
that's what we do. That's what we do. And I
had fun, but I did not have fun with this
particular episode. We will be back.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Soon, guys.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
We will continue covering this show, and I'm really hopeful
that the next couple weeks, we'll get some bangers because
it's Time through the Lens of Time. It's the name
of the next week's episode, and I love a good
time travel thing, so we'll see what that, What that happened?
What happens the Jeelantry.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
If you can live long and prosper.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
If you'd like to hear more from David C.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Robertson, check out the DC on Screen podcast or malagust
dot tv for his web videos. If you'd like to
hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out the Marvel Cinematic
Universe podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Or listen to his music.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music.
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, the snake continues
to eat its tail as Strange New World's recycles the
Holidack fail. We're talking Strange New Worlds three oh four,
a space adventure hour. Right after these words from our
mystery sponsors, Welcome to.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Star Trek Universe, the podcast we can listen in on
two lifelong friends and chat about Star Trek. Money's Matthew Carroll.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm David c. Robertson, Hey Dave, hey man.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
We had to record really late last week because we
had a lot going on and this week that kind
of pushed this week's episode a little later too, So
we're gonna think we're gonna keep it short because we
want to get back on track here. But uh and
because I honestly just have almost nothing to say about
this episode. I am. I think this might be my
(00:54):
least favorite episode of Strange New Worlds.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It is pretty up there for me, Like I disliked
it quite heavily.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Like it's it feels like nothing. It's not even like bad.
It feels like nothing to me and I and I
and I really hate coming on here and just shit
talking Star Trek. I fucking love Star Trek. Yeah, and
like there's just nothing here. It's a it's a mystery
(01:24):
story where the mystery is given such little bones that
there's no way to figure it out or really even
think through it. It's it's a twist ending that comes
out of nowhere, and there's really no way to like
sort of work your way to you know what I mean.
It's a fan service Holidack episode that is in my opinion,
(01:49):
completely meaningless. Like it's not like even I mean, it's
kind of it's it's telling us like they basically it'd
be one thing if it was like the guy who
invented the holiday for them, like coming up with some
piece of the Holidack that like made it work or
something like that, which I guess it kind of is.
But it's just about the power levels the Holidak draws.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
But also in Discover, we were told that they ripped
out everything in the enterprise that would allow for any
holograms to be on the enterprise. And they were like,
a hologram will never be on the enterprise ever. Again
that's true. Well I think they you know, temper Wars, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
They're talking about well you say that's talking about the
hologram communications arrays or whatever. This is a holidack, which
is different, but it also again, I mean, I guess
this this episode sort of further confirms his decision was correct,
Like they're not ready for holograms apparently.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah, and I got I don't know. They're like, oh, well,
we'll call it the recreation center like they did on
the rec room or whatever they did on.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
The animated series. Uh huh, like or holideck for short.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I don't know, have that's short.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
But whatever, Yeah, she says the recreation room and then
she's and then he says, no, it's holidack for short,
and then it's like, that's not short like you said,
and recreation rooms, yeah, I don't know. I mean that's
what they called it on the animated series. That's why
they said that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
That's the only reason they said that, right, which is
fine except as not I just I you know, they've
gone beyond the point of playfully jabbing the original series
and now they're just making fun of the original series.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, I agree, I agree they have that opening. The
opening scene is almost offensive.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Now, what I did like about this though, it is offensive,
But what I did like. What I did like is
Paul Wesley did a really good Kirk. Yes, I agree,
a really good original series Kirk. But then also during
the holiday like the murder mystery segment, did a really
good William Shatner, And there is the difference.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, I see that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
I see that.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
That's fun. That's fun. And I'm assuming that it was
supposed to be gene Rod Barry, some version of Geen
roden Berry Pike was playing, and then some version of
Lucille Ball absolutely which absolutely, yeah, I love that. I
think it's it's very cool. All of that is very cool,
and it's like it's just this is the most meta
(04:18):
episode with almost no content actually in the episode, it's
a bunch of references to things that like if you
don't know, like if you don't know Star Trek, you
don't care about the Holidack, if you don't know the
behind the scenes of Star Trek, you don't really care
about these like characters that they're parodying. It is oh man,
(04:39):
it is like you said it in the intro. It's
the snaking. It's on tail to the point that like
I am just I'm not interested at all. This is
my least favorite strangling World's episode the.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Snake has not eat his tail so much that is
licking a motherfucking jaw line man. Yeah, like it's awful.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
I just like this more than any Discovery episode. I
think this show has had like more meat on the
bones in every episode, more things to struggle with, more
things for the characters to do. For the most part,
more characters, more more uh, exploration of more characters and
how they interact. Like I think this show has been
better about that. But like, there was never I can't
(05:16):
think of a Discovery episode that meant this little. It
was kind of mind boggling how little it meant yestly. Yeah,
and even like if it had been just a cool
mystery episode. I love an escape room and so I
got into this Like the first I was like, okay,
it's the murder mystery episode. There have been shows that
(05:37):
have done this really well. What are you gonna give me?
Give me cool murder mystery. Nothing then no, no analysis
of the murder. No, like they talked about the motives
of the characters just because they wanted to talk about
the characters who were representations of real life people. That's
all this was. And I was just like, what are
they doing, like it's understandable to be meta and throw
(05:59):
a little Easter eggs in for the fans, like the
seal ball. That was really fun, Like, uh, Rebecca remained
playing the seal ball, like that's that's a neat idea,
but like, what the hell are you doing with this?
Like having having nothing in the episode to support it, no, like,
and the only kind of neat idea was the fact
that Spock was a hologram. But that is such a
(06:21):
terrible twist because you did nothing to set it up.
And I knew they were.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Gonna do it too. The whole time. I'm sitting there
going like, yeah, that's not a real spot. This is
this is I'm there going like, oh, this is because
she figured out enough that the program is going to
try to, you know, up the ante. They did the
same thing in the Next Generation when they were like, uh,
create an adversary smart enough to defeat data, and they
(06:48):
you know, that was the wrong way to word it,
because turned the whole fucking Holidays sentient.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Right right. Well, And I watched this one twice because
I'm sorry. The second time I double speed because I
watched it when it first came out, and then We
took a couple of days to get to it, and
I was like, I feel like I need to rewatch
it because it felt like nothing to me. Surely there
was something there to grab onto. I watched the second time. No,
there wasn't. But I will say that the one thing
they did do to set it up is that she
(07:14):
was wearing a monitor on herself during their dance scene
at the beginning that was supposed to be tracking her
like life and emotions and like things like that to
like understand her better. Yeah, which I mean, I guess
that's the real thing. The meat of this episode is
she realized she like Spock and Spock likes her, and
now they're together.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
You can call it the meat.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't want to. I don't
even talking about this, like I've been not wanting even
one podcast about it because I'm so annoyed by this episode.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah. And it was directed by Jonathan Frakes. Oh really absolutely,
it was like total total waste of Jonathan Frakes. In
my opinion, I agree completely.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I think I see why he would want to do it, Like,
I see why he'd be like, ah, it's history of
Star Trek. You I'm such a he's such a like
a storied star trek director and celebrity, and like I
see why him reading and knowing these people from all
the con circuits and stuff, like he would want to
do this episode. But like it's a failure, Like I
(08:13):
haind this is gonna be a complete failure. And I'm sorry,
Like I have not felt less like sitting down to
podcast about something in this episode. I think I'm so
annoyed by it.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I felt the same way, but you know part of
that was, you know, I was so frustrated with it
that I said something on Threads on Threads about like
how I felt like this uh season has really taken
a nose dive in quality, and I just got a
bunch of people like, don't state your opinion of fact.
There's mad and I'm like, fuck you, Like I shouldn't
(08:47):
have to. You know, in college, you know, I took
writing courses, and you know, one of those big rules
they taught you is like, this is your opinion. Is
that's clear. You don't have to write in my opinion
or I think.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, it's threads, it's not a it's not a piece
of journalism. Yeah, y and threads. You're it's a microblog.
What are you talking about? Everything you say is your
opinion on there, unless you say unless you are a
citizen journalist or whatever, like this is just that's your opinion.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
But also I was just like, so, I've already been
kind of inundated with some aggravating fandom today, but you know,
I was also like, ah, man, I'm just gonna be like,
I hate this. I hate the way that they made
fun of Tos, and Matt's not gonna agree with me.
I don't know if I can handle that today.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
Oh no, they completely made fun of Tos Like I'm
not offended because I'm I don't. I don't. I don't
get offended that offended. But it was like it was
just terrible. It wasn't like like they could have done
that lovingly and still been funny. They could have done
a loving send up of Star Trek where it's like
there are things that are funny about Star Trek absolutely,
(09:57):
and none of it is that they say things like
I don't know the lines that they were just so terrible.
They did not feel like they were trying to write
a scene from the original series, which is what they
were sort of like pretending to do Yeah it was
it was a bad SNL sketch. Yes, it was a
bad sketch, and just did all it just.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It did all the things that I would expect for
them to take away from the original series based on
how they have changed everything leading up to the original series, Like, oh,
this is what you think of the original series for real?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Oh yeah, I see that as a person like yourself
who feels like they should not be changing so much.
They should be leaving the technology in place, and they
shouldn't be trying so hard to update the other relationships
and the whatever, Like you see a reason for them
to maintain even You've talked the past about how they
could have even like a backlash to feminism. It could
(11:00):
like cause them to have to be struggling for for
female captains and stuff like, yeah, that would line up
more of the original series. Like if they're struggling for ideas,
which based on this show, I'm saying they probably are
because Jesus Christ, the stupid silly shit they've been doing.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Mmm, Like there's a ton of like interesting dynamic, Like
we as a society in America, we are experiencing a
situation where we are walking back women's rights. Yeah, the
Star Trek is supposed to be a mirror for today,
and they're just not doing it. They're making fucking stupid
funny episodes that aren't even really funny. Sorry, that's my
(11:41):
little rant.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah, no, I'm with you. I found this not funny.
I found it not clever. I found the mystery to
be really empty. So uh yeah, I don't even really
want to talk about it anymore. Like if we have didd.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Ste right in, yeah, yeah, we had a couple of
people right in.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh oh wow, I'm scared. Oh no, no, no, no, I'm
scared in both directions if they're if they're positive, i'll
feel bad about how bad I feel about this episode.
And if they're negative, it's just gonna be a big pylon.
So here we go.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, well, I don't read Stu's so I don't know.
I don't read call we're doing the show. But Andre
did read. I don't know why I have a social
contract with Stue and not read as.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
As you don't want to like unlock that brain train
that makes you switch gives him control? Hm hmm, that
old joke.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Uh yeah, Andre Sparks says, hey, guys, I really liked
that episode. It was funny and interesting. That that is
the Space Adventure hour. It was funny and interesting. I
love seeing Kirk back playing og Kirk. Basically I couldn't
stop laughing. That I have stated in my in my opinion,
like yeah that I that was the best part of
(12:55):
the episode for me was watching Paul Wesley do both
O G. Kirk and William Shadow. Yeah and yeah, that
is cool. He did a really good job of that.
Andre says, I loved how we got to see what
was going on in the real world and how the
holid deck prototype affected the ship in the end, it
explains why we don't see it again for a while.
I like the footnote of needing its own server and
(13:15):
power supply because that comes up a lot on TNG,
mostly being a helpful extra source of power in case
of emergency. Lastly, spot getting all the ladies on the
ship mind blown. Wonder how that will play out. Hope
we get more Kirk next week. Glad you guys are back. Ps.
I really liked the Starfleet Academy trailer. Dude, I love
(13:37):
Andre Sparks.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yeah, Andre Is is a real one and he he
loves this stuff, even when I hate it, and it
always makes me view the things where like, Okay, maybe
I'm being too hard on this, Maybe I could take
a step back, because he's right about the Kirk stuff,
the Kirks, and you had already said it, like the
Kirk stuff is great and the and yeah the him
(13:59):
playing chatter thought about that, but you're totally right, like
that's shit. His Shatner is is different and spot on,
Like that's really funny. Who else was in there? Who
else was in the in the in there that had
an analog in real life that I'm missing because that's
about all I got.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Just uh Anson Mount playing Gene Roddenberry, which was right. Oof,
that was a weird one.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, it was. I don't know anything about Geen Rodenberry,
Like I know what he looked like, Yeah, I don't
think I've seen interviews with him and definitely don't know
what he would have been like in person in life,
So so I just yeah, I just wonder, well.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
They kind of played on I mean, they played with
the the actual timeline of it and everything like because
he was like, oh they were letting me go so
and that's not really that's not how that went down
in real life. With the original series, there was a
whole in the movies. It was where they didn't after
the most picture, they didn't want Gene involved, and uh,
(14:54):
he got real petulant and started leaking shit and whatever, gotcha,
and then wouldn't let them do a next generation without him.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay, But.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
As for mannerisms, based on interviews, I would say Anson
Mountain didn't do a great job, but I don't know.
I read that apparently he was insistent on studying Gene
rodden Berry and doing that version of it. So whatever, if.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
You're gonna do it, go for it. Like I feel like,
if you're gonna go for it, make this episode as
as much of a tribute to that as you can.
I did laugh when he said, but my vision, Yeah,
in general, you know, the idea is there. Like if
(15:45):
this if it had worked on any of the levels,
I feel like I would have liked it. If the
mystery had been cool, I would have liked it. If
the risk outside the ship felt cool to me, I
might have liked it. Like if they'd focused more on that,
and she's just in there doing a mystery that's a
little less interesting, but there's interesting. But this was just like, hey,
there's swirly lights on the screen and they're dangerous. Like
(16:07):
there's just no like decisions being made outside except for Scotty.
I like the Scotty stuff. Okay, you know Scotty and Scotty.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, all right, we got stull little here says. You
know what they say about Holodeck episodes after the first one,
they write themselves. I don't have much snark to say
for this one, as I was a most it was
mostly a fun take on a Holideck episode, though I
think the climax of the mystery could have been quote
(16:36):
unquote bigger and less rushed, given who done. It's usually
have scenes with all the suspects together as the detectives
runs down or the detective runs down the explanation. There
is also the fact that a Holodeck episode in twenty
twenty five has a whole other connotation, as the premise
is how the is now the logical conclusion of AI
generated content, and you would think a writer might want
(17:00):
to get into that more given the threat it poses
to their own job. But we just get the usual
technical difficulty being a problem, rather than the idea of
the creative limitations of the technology and the moral implications.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
They play out there. I love that, Stu. That's a
great idea that in this episode is perfectly set up
for it. And that could have been the end of
the episode where they're deciding what they're gonna do with
the with the Holidack. They could have been like, it
is not we are not ready for AI generated ones.
We need to keep writers writing these and like return
(17:34):
it to like the Holland novels, Like, yes, Halla novels
are important. We can't just let the AI run wild,
you know what I mean, like, just go for it.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
And there's that holding up a mirror to our society
thing I was talking about exactly Trick used to do.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Also, they just had an AI try to destroy the
Federation three years ago, so yeah, keep it on separate
servers or whatever.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Like yep still continues. They don't even consider the idea
that it was wrong to use people's likenesses without their
permission YEP, which has always been a weird Star Trek thing.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Oh well, I feel like no, I don't think so.
I feel like they did that very like the Barkley episode,
right where he goes in and he's got the crew,
they they they used it to talk about it, they
were like, is not cool, Like this is this is
weird and creepy and not cool. Like I think in
the past they've when a crew member has used other
(18:35):
crew members, it has been a creepy thing.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
It has been a creepy thing. But the way they
addressed it was like Riker smiling, smiling knowingly at somebody else.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Like, oh, right, they will kind of Barkley. Barkley gets
a lot of crap because I feel like Riker might
do the same thing, but he'd be like, look what
I did. And Barkley because he's kind of like a weird,
geeky guy, he's like, oh, that's creepy when he does it.
He doesn't have a wry smile anyway.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Lawn slash Spock pairing is fine, though it's furthering the
problem of how in Space Seed they have to look
up NOONI and Sing in historical databases to know anything
about him. If Spock banged the guys great great great
great great great great great great great granddaughter, they also
once again had the new incident without identifying him. I
actually looked up his name, but I'm not going to
(19:29):
mention it until they do well, Stu. As far as
you know, Spock having a look look con uh Noonyan
Sing is like Smith in the future.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
That's not true. It's not It's not true at all.
They've talked about it when I think, I think when
she was in the first season one, I think they
talk about how like it's weird that she's a nudian
sing and like she has to live it down or whatever.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
But you know, last season's Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow
actively erase space Seed. There is no space Seed. It
happens slightly differently. Maybe they don't look it up. Maybe
Spock was like, oh yeah, that bitch. I don't know
right right, but the original series did not happen the
way we saw.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
It according in relation to this anyway, it just can't.
Like like I was wondering how in space Seed that
happened because it's been so long, But like I was
wondering if if Spock was the one to be like
the Nonian Sing was about, like maybe he like had
the information because of this relationship, or maybe you know,
Spock is so uh private.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
At times. Yeah, Nie Oy's Spock is so private at times.
This dude on this show he tells everybody everything.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
But like nieme oy Spot, like you go thirty years
and all of a sudden, it is like I have
a brother, what you know? Yeah, so you know, he
might just be like, oh yeah, we looked his face up.
I never saw his face. I just fucked his granddaughter.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
I didn't know.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I didn't know, but yeah, that's him, that's crazy. He
was the guy. Yeah, so I looked him up. We've
confirmed it.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Kirk is not going to like stop and be like, Spot,
did you ever have intercourse with his great great great
great great great great granddaughter.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
But there were still only a few hundred years removed
from the Eugenics wars, like, and he was the you know,
the the main guy in that. I guess it just
seems like that would be a thing everyone would know. Yeah,
I don't know. We're uh, not nearly that far away
from slavery, but you know.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
We don't. You go on like they have those Ancestors
shows or whatever where they're like going back, they're like,
oh yeah, like four generations ago, your people own slaves,
and they're.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Like no, well sure, yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
So it's like you're not gonna know everything.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
No, of course not. But a lot of times. You like,
if someone's name is rare, like Nonian and sing, like,
you know, you might go any relation. If someone came
and met me today and said their name was John Hitler,
I'd go just a quick question, yes, yes, on Hitler.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
But you know, apparently con was like the best of
the dictators, like he treated his people really well, supposedly
m according to space scene, So like, you know, maybe
it's not like that egregious. It's just like, oh, yeah,
there was that one guy who just disappeared. We don't
know what happened to him.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Ah, Okay. I thought they were banished or whatever. I
don't remember. I don't know. I'd go back and watch
all this stuff. I thought that they were banished after
they like tried to take over the world or whatever.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
No, I mean, well they were all there was the
It was the Eugenics Wars, which Star Trek has ret
conned into World War Three, when originally in the canon
it was two separate things m hm. But it was
basically mankind versus the the Augments, and the right was
on the wall, as I remember it, the writing was
(23:02):
on the wall that humanity was gonna be the winner
of this instead of the augments and con and his
people got in a ship a sleepership and flew into
outer space, gotcha, and like cryogenically frozen until a new day.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Okay. Yeah, for some reason I thought it was them
getting shipped off that way. But yeah, you're that's cool, Okay, Okay,
let's get back to this. To this feback, sorry, that's
say I was it was it? Okay? Thanks to Yeah,
he didn't have a lot to say about this one either. Yeah,
that's the thing. I didn't mean to get on here
and be so negative. I feel negatively, but I also
(23:44):
just felt like there's just nothing to talk about here.
It just feels so empty to mean.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, and I'm aggravated that. Of course, the holiday malfunctions
in exactly the same way that it always fucking malfunctions
on the show, right where it's like, oh, well, safety
protocols are off, let's get out of here. Oh, it's just.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
You have to plan, you have to keep playing the
thing to be able to exit. Like, yeah, it just
seems like you could write a different kind of story
in the holiday. There's just seems like there could be.
And that's and that's I think in general with strange
New Worlds Like what disappoints me. The episodes I really
love are the ones that write new, interesting Star Trek episodes,
and the ones that I find are meaningless are the
(24:23):
ones that are recapping old Star Trek episodes.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
I would be much kinder towards this episode if we
did have twenty six or twenty four episodes, but we don't.
We have ten.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Rites, right, eh, yep, I agree. I think about it.
Show like The Orville, which I've talked about a lot.
It is it does this where it does an old
Star Trek episode almost exactly, but then they always do
something different with it. They always put a twist on it.
They always make the stakes a little higher. They they
(24:52):
allow for things that Star Trek didn't allow for. And
that's what makes it interesting, is like taking can be
the exact same idea, but then you're like, oh, but
we're not going to steer away from this thing that
Star Trek kind of avoided. We're gonna like steer directly
into the controversy or the interesting thing about that reflects
our world today. Like that's what I like about The Orville.
(25:13):
There are definitely crappy episodes of The Orville two, but like,
for the most part, that's the goal of the show,
and I think that should be the goal of this show.
If you're going to do an episode that is very
similar to an old Star Trek episode, think about where
they didn't go and go there. We don't just keep
doing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yeah, freakes, oh freaks. Yeah, I don't. I'm just I
am not in sync with the producers of this show,
the writers and producers of the show. I just I
feel like they are squandering what little time they may
have left ye with these with this universe and these characters,
because I'm like, god, there are so many great things
(25:52):
they could be saying in this day and age. Mm hmm,
and they're just making silly bullshit. Yeah, it's one thing
when it's Lower Decks and that's their intention. But Lower
Decks was still like having good points to their shows, Like.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, I agree, somehow it was more in tune with
the themes of Star Trek than this is. Sometimes this
is just just the silly jokes and like, I don't know, man,
why why has it got to be that way?
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Well, the great thing about Lower Decks is like they
were also holding up they were making fun of Star Trek.
And but the characters themselves were fans of Star Trek.
They were fans of They were obsessed with these people
from the past and who did all these great things.
They were obsessed with previous Star Trek officers. And they
kind of showed us that through a lens of fandom,
(26:42):
making fun of us and how we react to certain
things in fandom in the univers I and but also
held up a mirror to our society as well and
things that we were going through. And I just don't
I feel like World said, oh, they're doing silly stuff
(27:03):
and kind of missed the point.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
You predicted that last season that you were worried that, uh,
the strange New Worlds would take from lower decks and
and and I think you are. You're not wrong. You're
not wrong, Like I I I at the time was like, no,
I love what Strange World is doing. And I did,
and I I fear you were. You were prescient, sir,
(27:27):
Your comments were prescient.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I mean that's usually what happens.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
You look at the you know, led Zeppelin, great band,
they gave they gave birth to hair metal. Can't completely
forgive them for that. Man, people take the worst parts
of a thing and run with it.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I'm looking at oh Man dang. I was looking at
the writers of this episode, like who wrote it? Because,
like I said, freaks directed it. And the first writer
Dana Horgan has written on his top four were Our
Supergirl and Once Upon a Time, which that should just
tell you enough totally. But then I looked up Catherine Lynn,
(28:09):
who has written oh never mind. I was looking at
what she'd written, and she wrote off she an episode
of Lower Decks, which is cool. And then I saw
a movie on her IMDb called Mister Wright, which I love.
I love that movie. It's really good. It's Anna Kendrick
and gosh, I'm so bad this with This guy's name
always escapes me and it's always it. I'm gonna click
(28:32):
on the thing if I know it's it's a guy.
I'm gonna be feeling really dumb for not remembering because
it's always it's always on the tip of my brain.
Sam Rockwell. I cannot remember his name for the life
of me. I can never remember his name either. There's
two guys. It's Sam Rockwell and the guy who was
just in Fallout, the guy with no nose and Fallout.
(28:53):
You know, what I'm talking.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
About, Oh, Walton Goggins.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yes, For some reason, Sam Rockwell and Walton Goggins occupy
this same space in my brain they have. They have
one brain cell that's trying to hold both of them
in my brain because they're very they're very similar character actors.
They both have like a certain suaveness to them, and
like they're in the new season of White Lotus together,
and my brain cell was that one brain cells was
having a real problem keeping them on the screen at
(29:18):
the same time. But but yeah, that movie Mister Right
with Anna Kendrick and Sam Rockwell was a weird sort
of offbeat indie indie flick that was made and I
had not heard of it. I just saw it on
Hulu one day or something and I was like, man,
this is great, totally up my alley. It was a
good hit Man romantic comedy, which is my favorite genre,
(29:38):
and then uh it. But I never heard of it,
no one else. I never heard anyone talk about it
or anything.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
I never even heard anyone talk about Hitman romantic comedies
except for you. I know I, and I'm like, there's
like two of them in the world. Whatever. You just
mentioned a cross point blank.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
The Big Hit.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
I love The Big Hit, but I don't know that.
I I wouldn't categorize it as a romantic comedy because
there's too much infidelity going on. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It's a comedy and it's really infidelity does not preclude
it being a romantic comedy.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
But the thinking about man, like the.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Underage girl that he kidnaps, Yeah, that is that is
a bit weird, to be honest, I.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Haven't seen he's a bad guy.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
He's a bad guy.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
He is a good guy.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Hit but like it's a hit Man romantic comedy. They
don't end up together, but him and his like fiance
are like yelling while they're being attacked and like he's
dealing with her parents. Like it's all these romantic comedy
setups mixed with hitman shit, and I love that really
And Avery Brooks, Every Brooks, isn't that Every great war
Ink is another one which is a gross, point blank
(30:47):
spiritual sequel.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Did you ever see that? I did watch War inc
And I did enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
I don't It never occurred to me that it was
a romantic comedy of really any sort. Oh, it's totally
a hit man romantic comedy. I think Mister and Missus
Smith is a hit man romantic comedy.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, I don't like that one.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
No, I think it's great, and the new series is
really good too. I feel like that's less of a romance,
it's more of a romantic dramedy. I would say, uh,
the new Mister and Missus Smith, and there's a there's
a lot of movies like that. I think. I just
like the sort of relationship, family dynamic put into the
stakes of oh gosh, this isn't exactly a hip man
(31:26):
but it is. I will just say it's a hip
man romantic comedy, and that's that. A Jamie Lee Curtis
and Arnold Schwarzenegger and Tom Arnold. True Lies, that's another one.
It's a great genre. I don't know what you're talking about.
Only two of them. There's a ton of them. Those
are the those are the top lines. When I can
pop up up my head.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
See you like True Lies? I would take as more
of a action action movie parody.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
Hmmm, I would not. I don't think it's parody at all.
I mean, yes, okay, okay, there's one scene that is
clearly there's one scene that's there's one scene in that
movie is almost top.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
The dance. Is that what you're talking about? No dance
second she falls dance.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Oh no, I love that scene. I think that scenms
beautiful and cute.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Saying it's not good, I'm saying it's a parody. I
don't think it's really like a comedy like satire parody
type of thing. It's just like ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
To me, that's just comedy. That's not farst. That's not farst,
that's not that's not over the top parody. To me.
That is Jamie Lee Curtis is a housewife who's trying
to be uber sexy spy lady, and it's really cute
and she's dancing. I think that's just that's just pure comedy.
The one scene in that movie, and am I remembering
this correctly? Is this in this movie? I don't know
(32:42):
every damn thing I've said about you've corrected. Basically, Jamie
Lee Curtis, I think drops a gun down the stairs
and it flips down the stairs and kills all the terrorists.
I think that happens in one of the scenes at
the end of the movie where she's trying to escape
the terrorists. She's running and she drops a gun and
I believe it falls down the stairs and while falling,
(33:02):
goes off and kills all the terrorists in the room.
And then he I don't looks at it like that
that that moment is parody, But the rest of it,
I think it's pure like action comedy and Hitman romantic comedy.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Well, by your definition, then shoot him Up as a
hit Man comedy.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
No, shoot him ups parody. I mean he's killing people.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Except it's fucking not. The director and thought it was
a serious movie, dude. Me and Jason watched that movie
and howl, like I introduced it to him because I've
already seen I think with you, and we were like,
like me and Jason are howling through this movie through
Shoot Him Up. And then we watched the special features
and like the director is like just like totally, like
(33:45):
he believes that it is absolutely a serious action movie.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, I hear you, but he's wrong, Like, I don't
know what wrong that is. That is parody through and through.
I mean, parody can be in the eye of the holder,
But like, I think that he is wrong on that one.
I I feel not to express my opinion as fact
or anything, right, but no, mister Wright is an underrated
(34:12):
one and Tim Roth as the bad guy. Anna Knderlay
the bad guy. Uh, lie to me, it's a good ship.
It's a it's his Uh he's he's very good in
lie to me.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
There are multiple episodes. Therefore it is he is.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
A bad guy.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
What do you mean he is a villain in my
mind because because you can't me to watch multiple things.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Oh yeah, yeah yeah, but no, I just loved that
Anna Kendrick, Sam Rockwell and Tim Roth all like as
the main three in that movie. You're really good. Yeah. Anyway, uh, anyway,
we we way went off rails. I looked at Danel
We got passionate. We did, we did, we got excited.
It's something there's there's fun things to talk about here.
(34:59):
But no, I looked at up uh one of the writers,
Katherine Lynn, who wrote on this episode. She's also wrote
for the Lower Decks. And then I saw mister Wright
in her little four top four and I was like,
oh my gosh, she wrote, mister Wright, that's amazing. I
love that movie and no one even knows it. That's
so cool. And then I looked at it. She's additional crew.
Oh yeah, yeah, so she got somebody a coffee or something,
(35:22):
right exactly, she did something else other than write it,
which yeah, so yeah, oh well, I just think this
episode is uh is this of Star Trek is a stinker?
I'm sorry. I'm sorry to feel that way. I really am.
I don't like I just don't like podcasting about like
things and just shit talking them. And I feel like
(35:43):
this this season a Stranger Worlds, which was super exciting
for me. I was really excited to get back to
my favorite of the Star Trek series right now. Mm
hmm it and it's not living up to what I want.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, you know, I do, There's I have, there are
two wolves and every man. No. I I always feel
bad about not having a nice opinion about a thing,
but you know, just like how like I didn't have
a nice opinion about a thing and a bunch of
(36:15):
people tried to bully me into being quiet about it.
I think, fuck you if you don't like it, like
I'm so, I am actually genuinely so glad. If you
enjoyed this episode, if you've enjoyed the previous episodes of
Strange New Worlds, if you're just you know nothing, but
you nothing in your eyes with stars and glitter dust,
like I'm so happy for you, but you know, we
(36:37):
also come on this show and we have I feel,
rational reasons for why we don't like what we have disliked. Yeah,
we're not getting on here, going go wote, go broke.
We're not being hateful about anything. We are genuinely sad
that we didn't enjoy a star.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Exactly. It really is incredibly disappointing. I I just want,
I want, I want it to be so good, and
I don't know if I'm like part of me is
like am I do? I Are my standards too high?
And I went wanting everything to be under the cloak
of war and like I'm not, I'm but I'm not
(37:21):
I'm not. I feel like I am totally fine with
like you know, equality adjusting and the different Looking back
at the season, I think, you know, Hegemony Part two
was pretty good, Like wasn't it wasn't terrible. I enjoyed it.
We we we should talk to the regular things we
should talk on the show. But like I like it,
(37:42):
but then like you know, uh, wedding bell Blues and
shuttle to CONFORI were like just had big focus problems
and now this is like the most underdeveloped episode to me,
Like it feels like they had an idea and they
ran with it and didn't like go go back and
edit it or something like they didn't know. They're like, hey,
(38:02):
it's it's it writes itself. I feel like they they
they did the thing they thought they joked about in
this episode.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
My wife is catching up on this season, and I
wound up like in Wedding Bell Blues, more than I
did initially. Okay, good, but the same. I still had
the same problems. I just liked it a little bit more,
you know what I mean, Like, yeah, I think I
just like Reese Davies a little more. I was like, yes, okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, yeah, roll Reese Davies is pretty great.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, he's pretty great. And that wasn't one of my
biggest issues with the with the season. Like, my biggest
issue is that it's just a throwaway episode. It's like
a cute Hey, here's the thing, let's reference an old thing.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yeah, It's like you don't have to swing between throwaway
episodes that are only jokes and then like season hinging
war like episodes.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
You know, yeah, but that's what they're doing right now.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
I know, I know, and I that's like I love
Under the Cloak of War because it is such a
serious episode with like lots to it, but it doesn't
really hinge on the rest of the show. Like the
rest of the show moves on without it, you know
what I mean, Like it doesn't it doesn't matter to
the rest of the show that Aminga did that, you know,
And like that's what I think is so cool, Like
have more of those episodes.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I feel like you should. You should know your genre
a little more. Like I like when they mix genres
to some degree, but it feels like they're like, here
are here's the checkbox of all the things we've got
to do on a Star Trek show. Let's let's do
you know, a musical episode, Let's do a holiday episode,
(39:37):
Let's do a puppet show, let's do all a zombie show.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Like eactly, exactly, Like be confident in the fact that
you are Star Trek and make good Star Trek, like
you don't have to make every episode. Like part of
Star Trek is making every episode something cool and different.
And I think that's cool and I don't mind that,
but like, yeah, I agree with you. I think they're
(40:02):
they're they're fighting too hard against being just what Star
Trek is, and in this episode particularly like making fun
of what Star Trek is so that they can then
subvert it. And yeah, I just I just wish they
could celebrate it and and take take the piss out
of it every once in a while. But like, yeah,
(40:23):
have have fun with respect. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah, And it's just I haven't been feeling that. But
also like they're so concerned with I don't know, making
their characters cuddly fan favorites that they kind of take
away some of their some of their agency, and some
of their seriousness as Starfleet officers sometimes too. It is
a weird it's a weird brew for me.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Well, I think like I'm think about this in relationship Discovery,
and it's like Discovery was its own thing to the
point that I could really forgive it for ha ha,
forgive it for not a terrible thing. But I could
forgive it for not being traditional Star Trek like I
could forgive it much more for being like it is
(41:09):
not episodic, because that's not what the show is. It
is not about the whole crew. It is about a character.
It is like it is about these weird problems and
they keep jumping around from the future to other timelines,
and like going with it was weird and I at times,
at times I think I bristled at that, but eventually
(41:32):
I settled in too, like this is just a different
thing and I'm gonna enjoy it for what it is.
This show because it's so connected to the original series,
and it is the week to week and fologistic like
ship based show that is like has a captain and
a crew and literally the same crew from the original series.
Like it's really hard for me to separate and not
(41:56):
constantly go back to compare because as much as we
did some of this during Discovery, like I don't remember
feeling so like this just doesn't feel like they're trying
to do Star Trek Like I think maybe I felt
that at the beginning of Discovery, but then I quickly
was like, oh no, they're just in choosing to do
something different in the Star Trek universe, and I'm more
okay with that than being like, this is your week
(42:18):
to week Star Trek show, that is it happening on
the Enterprise and we're just gonna make silly shit every
app every week.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah, yeah, okay, So my issues with Discovery, like I
give I give Discovery so much of a pass because
like after their first season, they lost their show run.
Well before their first show There's first season started, they
lost their show runner. Yeah, got a new show runner.
At the end of the first season, they lost their
(42:47):
second show runner, and then they did the second season,
they lost another show runner because all these people were
doing fucked up shit and or having uh they're either
being abusive to staff or they were you know, creative differences,
so like it took him a few seasons to get
what they were doing. But then they like jump the
(43:10):
crew into the far flung Pure and they specifically said
it was to get away from from can Cannon. Yeah,
I And they weren't expecting strange dual worlds or Pike
and all that to be such a such a big
deal and the fan favorite thing. So they launched them
(43:31):
into the future to get away from Cannon and then
start a show right where they left off in the
same century. Like, right, that doesn't make any sense, Like
you're trying to get away from Cannon, we youar prequel?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Well that's that's Disco's Disco's choice. But then we liked
it so much and we were on board, and I
still am. I still want to. I like the first
two seasons the show, and I want this season to
get better. Maybe it will, but I'm I'm I'm getting
nervous because we're four episodes in. I like one of them, Okay.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2 (44:02):
Maybe I like all of them, Okay, except for this one,
and then I think I like a jim Any part
part two. But then we still got the freaking coming
soon four and a half Vulcans, And I'm like, that's
another way that I think I cannot imagine based on
the one scene they've released that I'm gonna have anything
(44:23):
they'll say positive about that episode. I would be so
annoyed the whole time that the cannon feels so broken
by that episode. But maybe maybe there's some line that
makes it make sense. I'm just hopeful that they'll do something.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I'm telling you, the only thing that makes it anything
makes sense is tomorrow. Tomorrow, and tomorrow there is no
cannon anymore. Sure it's all madness.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
Yeah, but that's that doesn't that's not true, because yes
there's no cannon, but that doesn't mean Vulcans don't work
like vulcans work. Sure, sure, that's what. That's what.
Speaker 1 (44:52):
It doesn't some bullshit. The temporal war happened, and now
vulcans don't work like vulcans work. Now, maybe in the
future episode they'll go back and between temporal war, faction
will go and do another thing, and vulcans will work
the same way they used to work.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
But yeah, no, I don't buy that. There are there
are ways you can mess with the timeline and fudge
things around, and the show is playing with that directly.
They've done Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow, that's the one where she
goes back with con right.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Then there's also the episode that believes the end of
first season where Pike jumps forward in time and deals
with that that week forward in time or whatever.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
I think that happened before tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow. Yeah,
the Balance of Terror episode. Maybe it was a finale,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Know, it was the finale. It was the finale of
season one?
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Oh was it?
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I believe? I believe so. Yeah, then it was before
I believe so. So that is also playing with this
idea that not necessarily that the timeline has changed, but
we have the ability to change it, and Pike is
making that choice. So like, I'm okay with these little
timeline changes, but it is a very different thing to
say that Vulcans and don't need the culinar to become emotionless.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, or that is just you know, oh, we're Vulcans now,
so now we're emotionless. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Vulcans go through tons of training before even the colonar.
The colonar purchase all emotions.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, well, that's that's what I mean. I'm just talking
about the practice of of purging your emotions that they
go through for years of study that culminates in the colinar.
Speaker 1 (46:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah, Like I'm just saying, like, that is not what
they're doing here, and it annoys me that that's what
they're doing. Anyway, let's get out of here. We've talked
way longer than I intended to. How you doing, Yeah, yeah,
that's what we do. That's what we do. And I
had fun, but I did not have fun with this
particular episode. We will be back.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Soon, guys.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
We will continue covering this show, and I'm really hopeful
that the next couple weeks, we'll get some bangers because
it's Time through the Lens of Time. It's the name
of the next week's episode, and I love a good
time travel thing, so we'll see what that, What that happened?
What happens the Jeelantry.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
If you can live long and prosper.
Speaker 3 (47:07):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
If you'd like to hear more from David C.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
Robertson, check out the DC on Screen podcast or malagust
dot tv for his web videos. If you'd like to
hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out the Marvel Cinematic
Universe podcast.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Or listen to his music.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music.
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