Strange New Worlds 3x07 - "What is Starfleet?" - Star Trek Universe

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, Beto's been filming
on the Enterprise for weeks, and the fruit of his
labor is what is Starfleet? We're talking about the strange
new Worlds three oh seven? What is Starfleet? As well
as a little bit of news. Right after these mental
cries from our mystery radioactive Kaiju butterflies, eh scree.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome Star Trek Universe Podcast, we get listen in on
two lifelong friends and shout it out Star Trek. Name
is Matthew Carroll.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm David c. Robertson, Dave. What up?

Speaker 2 (00:39):
What you know? Not much? What's up with you?

Speaker 1 (00:43):
You know what? I don't know? Okay? My Dollar Store
eyeglasses just broke, so damn it shitty.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Why do terrible things always happen to you?

Speaker 1 (00:56):
I know? And now I'm like, no, I am not
going to invest another dollar twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I know when they break after three years.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
I mean, come on, it's been about a month and
a half. Oh well that is pretty bad. Honestly, yeah,
that's pretty bad. So I'm gonna go Walmart and buy
one of them fancy of three packs for twenty five since.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
More, it's really really dark Dave really dark. So you
got some news. You got some news to bring to
the listeners.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
I do, man, And I'm actually kind of excited about it.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right, I'm excited to hear I don't know it yet.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, so, and I you know, I'm not you know,
I'm sure someone out there has got a reason why
I shouldn't be excited about this. But the Paramount has
hired a former Sony TV and Apple TV plus executive,
Chris Parnell, to be the new executive vice president for
Paramount Plus Originals.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
And then. He has been involved in developing a number
of genre projects, including for All Mankind.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Now, this is not the one Chris Parnell from SNL.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
No, okay, sorry with that guy.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
You said Chris Parnell, And I was like, wait, I
know that name. That's the guy from Yeah, it's like
the Chronic Cools of Narna. Yeah, gains right, Okay, different,
different Chris Parnell.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Right, this is a different Chris Parnell. He helped develop
with Ron Moore for All Mankind.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Cool Love that Love that show.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
He, according to Deadline, a well liked executive, Parnell is
known for his passion for everything comic book slash genre
slash geek stuff related which he would apply to signature
of Paramount IP, including Paramount Plus's Star Trek franchise, which
the streamer's new leadership is looking to further expand. Mmm okay,

(02:52):
punt Paramount is looking to expand a slate of Star
Trek for Paramount Plus, which has been cut down to
just two shows, the upcomings Arfleet Academy in twenty twenty
six and Strange New Worlds, which will end with the
fifth season. Uh yeah so and also a writer producer.
Mark Altman, co host of the Inglorious Trexperts podcast, Okay,

(03:16):
said so happy for my good friend Chris Parnell, who
gets and loves Star Trek an amazing birthday present for
the franchise for his upcoming fifty ninth birthday. This sounds
like amazing news.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, seems good, seems good, all good things. I'm trying
to look up his IMDb to see what else he's
worked on for All Mankind is wonderful, but I'm not
seeing I think I found the right guy on IMDb.
I'm not seeing anything his on his IMDb, So yeah, like,
maybe what else has he worked on?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
I don't know. I cut all that part out because
it didn't matter. For all, Mankind is the only thing
I cared about.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay, yeah it is. It is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
It is a wonderful show.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
But yeah, I guess I'm curious because that show is great.
But it has some very specific, some specific hallmarks to it.
And he was just an executive on that show.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, he helped develop it with Ronald Moore apparently.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Okay, sweet, great show, freaking great show, and obviously working
with Ronald Moore. Maybe we'll see Ronald Moore return, Let's
see it.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Says he has a long career developing numerous popular drama
series like The Boys and Better Call Saul. Yeah, those
things don't feel like Star Trek, but they don't have to.
Those are excellent shows.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, those are amazing, and but all shows I would
like to see Star Trek tackle those sorts of things,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, I like the Yeah, the ethics and everything absolutely.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, well, the ethics of it, the character driven nature
of Better Call Saul, the you know, sort of willingness
to go, willingness to really get into the weeds of
the geeky stuff with the Boys, you know, Yeah, that's
that's super fun.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Man. Here's more Dark Matter, Neuromancer, The Last Frontier, Bad
Monkey Pluribus, which is an upcoming Vince Gilligan show. He's
the creator of Breaking Bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's see.
He uh developed a bunch of Apple TV's content, including

(05:09):
for the Apple Vision Pro launch, including the platform's first
full immersive series, Adventure and first full length spatial film
Bono Stories of Surrender. M M see.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Well the biggest the biggest thing I'm seeing just like
looking at the IMDb stuff, is that connection with Ronald D.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Moore.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Like, first of all, Vince Gilligan wants to do anything
in Star Trek. Sounds like this guy's in a relationship
with Vince Gilligan. That would be amazing. Ronald D. Moore,
He's worked with him, Like he's developed a show with
Ronald D. Moore, like about space travel. Ronald Y Moore
returning to Star Trek would be amazing. Like it seems
like a guy we won on our side as an executive.
That does sound amazing. That sounds great, man, I'm that's

(05:50):
I'm all in for that. That's really cool.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Yeah, absolutely so. I'm just it's exciting because I'm like,
if he's running Paramount Plus's originals, you know, he's at
the very least, which apparently David Ellison is a big
fan too, but got the CEO and everything. But you know,
it is nice to have a fan as a buffer, yeah,

(06:13):
you know from the money guys who are just like,
well you're doing like yeah, for sure, give me a minute,
I'm building something.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, and we're just like someone who understands
the fandom and understands what they what they might want,
and yeah, like you know who knows who knows like
this is an executive Executives are they can they can
be a hindrance or a help. But it seems like
the shows he's worked on, he's he's you know, hasn't
been a hindrance to making them great.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
So I'm seeing that he worked with Ron Moore, I
was like, oh my god. Yeah yeah, and they just
take Kurtsman out back and shoot him and just put
Ron in charge.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Of start just give him the holes bang. Yeah yeah, no,
I that would be interesting. That would be really interesting
to see what Ronaldymore would do with all of Star
Trek after, you know, thirty years ago being maligned as
like the I guess twenty years ago being maligned as
like the uh, you know, a little step child of
Star Trek kind of pushed in the corner of d
S nine.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yes and no, because you know, he the reason he
got so much work on DS nine and got in
to such a high position there is because of the
work he did on TNG, writing some of the best episode.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Sure, sure, sure, so, I just mean I'm talking about
like from a control perspective back then. Gosh, what was
the guy's name who was running the show back then?
The whole Burman thank you? I couldn't remember Rick Berman's
name forgotten to the years. Rick Berman. Just kidding. Obviously
it was a great error of Star Trek. So I
can't hate on Rick too bad. But like, there were

(07:42):
some decisions Rick made, and one of them being relegating
DS nine to like kind of second fiddle because he
didn't like the kind of work that that Ronald Moore
wanted to do, which is make these sort of interconnected
stories and everything like that, which is what we loved
and what we grew up on. So yeah, that that
would be it would be come up into a sort

(08:04):
I feel like to see RONALDY Moore put in the
place of of someone like if he was the new Berman.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
You know, yeah, you know, I I absolutely will shoot
on on Rick Berman. You know, like he he was
pretty sexist. He was pretty much directly responsible for all
the issues with Gates McFadden and her being fired for
season two. He was shitty to Denise Crosby, like he's

(08:32):
he's pretty renowned as being sexist. He's pretty out of touch.
Didn't know things about Star Trek, didn't think it matter,
didn't think people would notice. It was people like Michael
Pillar and Ronald D. Moore and Michael Piller, especially Ronald D.
Moore as well, and uh and uh Brandon Braga of
course the you know More and Braga were like the

(08:53):
Golden Children, and Berman kind of sided with Braga and
a lot of a lot of things more than More.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
But well, I'm all I'm getting at is the only
reason I was throwing that aside is that, you know,
it's an era of Star Trek. We love the last
part of tnng DS then through DS nine and even
parts of Voyager are things we loved. So like he
was that executive who, while he might have been pushing
in the wrong direction. He clearly oversaw an era that worked,

(09:21):
even if he was pushing the wrong direction.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah. Oh dude, like Ron Moore, you know, he went
to he was on the writing staff for Voyager for
like a week and yeah, I quit. Yeah, I remember.
That's funny if they refused to push any kind of
character development. Yeah, but yeah, I know what you're I
know what you mean about Berman. I just I don't
want to like leave.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Out the fact that he had he was a bastard
in other ways.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, And I don't know any of that stuff. I
don't pay attention to the behind the scenes stuff. All
I know is like vague, vague things about Berman not
being very connected and being kind of like a suit.
You know.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
It's funny, like someth years ago, he did like a
big three hour interview and I listened to it and
he was just he was remembering so many of the
actors' names wrong.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Oh man, oh man, that's terrible. So this so this
new guy, uh, Chris Parnell, he's been placed in what position?
I'm sorry, I kind of just like gloss over the
actual story.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Executive vice president for Paramount Plus Originals.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Okay, executive oh Man that's a great place for a
geek to be. Uh huh, yeah, that's great.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Love it. Mm hmmm. I mean yeah, they did just
kill the the Dexter prequel series after they had renewed
it or not they but the previous regime had renewed
Dexter Original Sin for a second season. New regime just
came in and just hacked it at pieces. M m.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
He said, Nope, No, I think we're coming up for
a change. Like I think we might lose some of
the things we even like and just going on in
Star Trek right now. They could do the same thing
to change New Worlds. They could come in and say, oh,
said that five season thing. Nah, Like, you know, it
could happen. What do you mean you don't want any
more Strange New Worlds?

Speaker 1 (11:07):
I said it could.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Oh I thought you said, good, No, no, okay, it could.
Yeah it could. It could absolutely could. So you know
that could be the case. But like, I just hope
that whatever they do, whatever I assume, well, we're in
for changes. I I hope Strange New Worlds doesn't hit
the hit the editing room for I hope we get
the five seasons they want to do, because I do

(11:29):
like this show talked three weeks ago, Matt, he might
not have felt the same way, but uh no, I
still wanted to play out.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
I guess I did read that. They they are, they've
now like resumed production on Strange New Worlds and Starfleet Academy.
After there was like a pause, there was like a
bit of a.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Oh well, you know, like a bit of a clinch when.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
People came in for a second.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
It's it's like, you've already put so much into Academy
at this point, it feels you gotta finish at least
the first season.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I mean, the first season is wrapped that I'm talking
about going into season two. Oh, production of season two, gotcha.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
I didn't realize every that close to production on season two.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Crazy guys, the yoh yeah yeah, No, like Strange Strangely
World is going into production on season five and Academy
is going into season two on the production but yeah,
we know that, well we don't know, no, we we've
heard that Paramount is not happy with Strange with Starfleet Academy,

(12:33):
gotcha from what they're seeing supposedly.

Speaker 2 (12:37):
All right, well, any other news, Yeah, let's talk about
this episode, all right, I'll jump in I uh cool
conceit uh doing doing a documentary. I just finished watching
it was kind of funny last night. It's funny and
mentioning it here because I just mentioned on the MCU

(12:58):
guest too. But uh, I watched The Martian last night.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
With a.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
You know that good Will hunting boy Matt Damon, I
could remember his name, good Will hunting boy, you know,
you know Will hunting whatever.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
No, uh I, uh such a great freaking movie. I
gotta say it here too. I said it on the
MCU cast. Uh I just I just fully support that movie.
It's so good. It's so freaking good anyway, great cast,
freaking killer. But it is also shot predominantly through like
cameras that are on the on the set of the

(13:37):
ship or whatever. Like a lot of the movie is
shot through, like the him looking into a camera and
like different different shots of him that are being shot
by NASA cameras or whatever. And so this when I
went from watching that and woke up this morning to
rewatch this episode, I was like, oh, that's funny. It's
funny little connection because this episode had a lot of
that sort of weird angles and stuff from the consoles

(13:59):
and all that kind of stuff. Mm hmm, that's fun.
I really liked the conceit of doing an episode like this.
As for the actual like meat of the episode and
what happened, I'm a little annoyed at it. Yeah, a
couple things annoy me.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Pray shot a man.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
It set up this idea that like, hey, I'm a
rebel filmmaker and I'm here to question the authority. And
I'm gonna tell you, is it an empire or is
it a is it a is it a federation? What's
the difference? Hey, man? Anarchy symbol tattoo?

Speaker 1 (14:35):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
But like in the end, he was just in his feelings,
and it like made it, it made it. It made
it almost feel like they're just tapping him on the
head and going, like, any of those questions you had
aren't valid because you had anger in your heart when
you thought them. And it's just like, no, all of
those questions are valid. And the best of Star Trek

(14:57):
asks those questions and a lot of times leaves those
questions kind of open.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
And I like the point.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
I actually, you know, we're always talking about connecting Star
Trek with today, the politics of today. In the end
of the episode, they say, what is Starfleet, and they're like,
it's it's a it's the people. It's not like it's
it's it's the people. Make Starfleet, not Starfleet, make the people.
What I really wanted out of that is a little
bit more of an ominous take of like absolutely Starfleet

(15:26):
is on the edge of being an imperial force all
the time, and it takes the people working every day
to maintain the ideals of this thing to keep it
this way. And that's what America takes, you know what
I mean, Like we're facing that in America where just
a lot of people are not caring that we maintain

(15:47):
the norms that keep us a you know, civil society,
and like we're falling too fascist shit.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
And like.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
I saw such a great parallel there. And so to
end the episode by being like he was wrong for
asking They didn't say he was wrong for ask question.
They actually say he was brave for asking the questions.
But they definitely like undercut the whole thing by saying
it was all about his anger, And I just thought
that was a strange I don't like that. I don't
like it didn't need that. They could have they could

(16:18):
have proven their metal to him even by by not
just admitting having him admit his whole reason for doing
the thing was because he was angry. You know, it
really undercut the whole theme of the episode.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
To me. It also undercut his anger, the fact that
I haven't seen that he's been on the ship. He's
been on the show for weeks now, and I haven't
seen all this anger that he suddenly No, not.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
At all, And that was the point of this, was
that he got there and he'd been sort of subversive
and it was all about him making this documentary that
they didn't know because that's when Ohror asked him, like, oh,
that's what you're doing, Like this is the movie you're
making because he's not been clear about that, And and
that's the point where like the thing shifts for the

(17:02):
characters and then they start and then they have the
holo cars of him being angry.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, and I feel like it should have been a
little bit of a uh what is he was? It
called uh dramatic irony. We should have known m not
every like no one else should have known but us
and him that he was maybe maybe tilting towards that way.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, I could see that. I can also just I
think I think there's something to that where like just
a documentary crew following them around, like we should have
known something was like a foot maybe a little bit,
but they kind of covered it by having the fact
that like Ahora and him were interested in each other.
It made it feel like, oh, this is just gonna
be a little romantic subplot, but it wasn't. It was

(17:48):
actually like this guy's taking the video and then it's
gonna be this sort of scathing documentary and it's revealed
in this way. But then they just kind of take
it all away. But him, he's just angry. He's just
angry the filmmaker stuff. Yeah, all his questions are not
as valid as they like should be treated.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Uh. So there was my issue there. There was my
issue with the fact that he has been filming for
weeks and weeks and we only got one mission. Like
it seems like he has seen some of the best
of what Starfleet is on these other missions. Hm, but
maybe sort of just being a little dick for this
mission and oh this is what I'll make my documentary about.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
Well, no, I think you know, it's weird. I don't
think he's being a dick because I think at the end.
That's a pretty common documentary technique because like you film
a lot more than you use and you find the
story as you're there. And so like, let's say he
wanted to couch it around a mission and then that
he's there like looking for the mission, it's going to be.
He could have filmed ten missions and then like, oh,
that's the one. This is the one.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I'm just saying, like in the spots where he was
like talking about like what Starfleet is and what they
accomplish and what they do, and he could have shown
shots from these other missions just as yeah, that's true
to be like, hey, I was here, remember right.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
That's true. And they do show like I mean, they
show like dead bodies coming back, and they show them
all like lined up, very lots of military stuff going
on because he's trying to prove that point with him
proving that it's an empire, which also I mean, it's
it's a cute technique to have the filmmaker themselves change

(19:22):
their mind in the middle of the film, you know,
but you're the one making the film and editing the film,
like like as a if this was not a fictional documentary,
if this is a real documentary. I would think it
was a neat concept, like I'm setting out to prove
this and in the middle, oh wait, I proved a
different thing. Like that's a nice technique, it's been done before.

(19:44):
It's cute, but like it just kind of feels like
so I don't think he was necessarily being a dick
because in this case, they're they ended up doing the
right thing in the long run, even though they were supporting.
Here's another thing that I felt like complicated this whole episode,
and I don't think we needed it, And it made

(20:06):
me feel different about the episode because the episode opened
with here's these two people are fighting, and it said
casualty numbers, and the casualty numbers for the Lapina? Is
that right, Lapina? I don't know the casualty numbers for

(20:30):
the people they're helping in this episode get the wrangle
the Beast were nine million and the other side had
only lost one hundred and fourteen thousand, which means the
side that they're helping is getting destroyed. They're getting like
rolled over. So I almost understand their desperation, and I

(20:57):
don't think that came across like to set that up
in the first moments of the episode to say like, oh,
these guys are are losing bad. They are losing this war.
So whatever they do, you could see it being justified
at least by them, you know what I mean, at
least like and there's that moment where the guys like,

(21:19):
you can't take it away. We've worked so hard on this.
It should have been like, no, our people are dying.
There should have been like real stakes to that decision
for even Pike, because he Pike should be looking at
this and going like they need defense, Like I understand
this is a creature. We can't do it this way,
but they do need defense. And he says, we'll continue
helping you in other ways, just not like this, which

(21:41):
so so that's there. But like the fact that those
casualty numbers were start at the beginning framed the entire
episode for me because I'm thinking, I mean to be honest,
I'm thinking like Israel Palestine, like like and the stuff
we're seeing on the news of one side that's got
killed millions and one side that's killed one hundred, that
like I felt like it was an intentional like thing

(22:03):
they were doing where they're like.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
Special with him dropping you know, the colonizer a bit.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yes, yes, but the team, the ones were following that
are doing the thing with the uh with the Mathra,
they're the ones that are being colonized, you know what
I mean, They're the They're the ones that are in
the weaker position, so like they's just see. I thought
it was gonna be the other way around. I thought
we were gonna find out like they were, they were

(22:28):
the evil, bad guys who were doing the bad thing
and that this but I don't know, It's just a
really strange framing they did at the very beginning of
the episode, like they really wanted to establish this thing
that these guys are losing, and they did nothing with it,
like in the episode nothing ever, that never framed the
story at all, And I never felt like the show

(22:51):
was trying to tell me these guys are desperate and
this is a desperate act. It felt like they were
a group of people that was just trying to hurt
other people and animals, you know what I mean. Like
it didn't show their desperation, and I think that would
have come across differently and more interesting.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
I was a little confused because I thought maybe the
I was under the impression that the guys at the
end were the other people, the bad guys who were
trying to intercept the weapon. M and that the first
people who were like dying and being like, well we
made the most like in Sick Bay, were like the
people who were getting rolled over.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Mm hmm. But yeah, no, that we never we never
meet the other guys, which is what I'm saying, Like
if this, if this would have been just a war
is going on, yeah, and we don't know anything about
the war, then it would have this episode would have
been fine for me. But because they set it up

(23:46):
with those extreme differences. One has killed nine hundred times
the number of people the other side has killed nine
hundred to one ratio. M h that's a big that's
a big difference, Like, yeah, am I doing that math right?
Ninety times ninety to one, sorry, ninety to one, Like

(24:08):
that's a big, big swing. And it just felt like
they were intentionally framing it and then like what why
why what did that do for the story, And so
it distracted me the whole episode.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, it felt like a lot of it felt like
this episode was not well conceived, especially since is forty minutes.
It is the shortest episode of the series so far.
What documentary do you know is forty minutes? I don't
think they I mean a ninety minute documentary.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
There are documentaries that are whatever. Like you know, there's
a lot of documentaries these days, especially with YouTube and short.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Yeah, maybe it's a short it's a short span of
the future.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah, exactly. All their movies are forty minutes.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Yeah. I kind of hate that he had that. They
made a point to ask him, Benga those questions, right,
and they never went back to it.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
Right, Like this kid some how seems to have inner
knowledge about that, Like the Cloak of War episode, they like,
this kid has the inner knowledge about that, which like
no one knows, Like Pike just found out. It's super secret.

(25:22):
It's not even classified. It's a speaking conspiracy. Why does
this kid have this idea to even ask him being
of those questions, Yeah, I don't know, there are there
are questions he could have asked him that I feel
like may have worked. Okay, here's here, I'm head canning

(25:43):
it now. It's said at the beginning of the episode,
all of this information has been released. All of the
footage you see in this episode has been released because
of a freedom of information request and has been declassified.
Maybe he tried to get more foot from previous episodes
that would have been there, and he found the missing

(26:04):
because he asked him specifically, did you scrub the logs?
And maybe that made him like dig into Aminga's past. Okay,
I've head candidate. I'm happy with that scene now, sure
you know what I think.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
I like because I was thinking back the episodes that
we remember him from. You know, my complaint being why
was it this? Why was it this mission? Because like
I wish they'd had a line in there where he
was like, yeah, I was, you know, I didn't. I
was mad at Starfleet because of what happened to my sister. Also,
to be honest, I'm mad that I sent in a

(26:38):
bunch of footage. I really wanted to make this documentary
about that fucking Q world and they said, no.

Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, that's true, that's true.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
This one definitely seems I mean they ended up making, like,
I guess, the right decision to stop the use of
this animal as a you know, as a weapon of war.
But like it was definitely like a a dicey thing
for them to be playing at.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, I going back to her talking about is the people.
It's such a tidy wrap up, like because like the yeah,
the starfleet is the people is what makes starfleet what
is not the other way around. Okay, but you guys
were like seriously upset about, like in questioning taking orders
from other people who were above you in starfleet.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Right exactly, you know, as I yeah, like they simplified
they obviously the idea is that they're the people on
the ground. They made the right decision in the end
because they saw the problem. They saw the problem in person,
like literally a crewmember connected empathically with it and like

(27:51):
you know, was able to like fix this problem. And
it was really beautiful. Honestly, when the when the thing
was decided to find the sign I'm getting emotional was
to the second to fly into the sun to protect
his children and like saying like please, I can't do
anything about it, but please don't let them turn all
of my children into these monsters.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
You know.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Like God, that's a really powerful scene. Yeah, really really
powerful scene. I'm really getting foggy eyed over it.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
I'm glad you are. I was rolling my eyes the
whole time.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Oh no, I loved it.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
I loved that by that point, I was just like
I was done. Huh.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
I guess I wasn't done this whole episode. I just
I really needed I've said my piece. I've said. The
two things that really bothered me was the angry thing,
like I wish, you know, he says like we're we're
gonna be here to protect you or whatever. We're gonna
be here to help you in other ways, just not
this way, Like I wish we'd seen how they were

(28:46):
gonna help them. And I wish we'd seen the threat
that was the other culture because the or just don't
freaking show me the casualty stats. I'm so annoyed about it.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, yeah, to me, this was it was lacking a
lot of stuff. And also it was filmed, like the
interview scenes, it was filmed like one of those one
of those medication commercials, Like I felt like the real
big close up of the person. I felt like in
Bengo was going to look at the camera and go,
I have groans, and then like you know, Pike looks

(29:21):
like it goes, I have all sort of colitis. You know.
I thought it was gonna be that, and I guess
what it felt like. I didn't think it was gonna
be that. But that's what it like, right. The filming
techniques they used fell like, that's funny. I liked the
filming techniques.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
It reminded me of the Office, you know, that mockumentary style,
which like you don't really get to see in Star Trek.
So I liked the idea of them like being interviewed
and you know, and like, weirdly, I liked the guy
who's making the documentary. I enjoyed his filming style. Like
there were a few moments where like when his sister

(29:55):
is rehearsing what she wants to say. I really liked
the moment where he has the camera not on her yet,
but he listens to the rehearsal and he uses the
rehearsal instead of using the actual thing, and then it
cuts to her actually doing the interview. It was just
little things like that, like showing the artifice of the
are the artifice of the actual fake documentary, you know, Yeah,

(30:19):
which in real life that would have been a cool
documentary technique, but which.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Look, I don't think Ohera reacted angrily and hurt enough
as she forgave him way too quickly, like motherfucker, literally
had a camera set up hidden.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Oh yeah, that was weird.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
No man uh uh, trying to get something out of
her to like prove his little point. Like that's like
a huge breach of trust. Well, and I think it
is just illegal in certain places.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
I don't think. I don't think they're like anymore, we're
gonna have relationship and maybe wrong, but like I think
that that was a misdirect. I think that whole thing
with them was a misdirect for this episode to be,
like to give him that turn and then her to realize, Oh,
this isn't what I thought it was and he's using me,
you know, but maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Maybe they'll be. I mean, I'll yeah, I would be
so surprised if they actually had them still talking, yeah
exactly in the episode, like she says she forgave him
and whatnot, and I'm like, god, that was quick, Like
I don't know, man, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I mean I liked that she forgave him because it
gave us the chance to at least acknowledge that, like
the questions he was asking were valid. Like, even though
I think the episode undercuts that, at least, Oh, a
character we like and trust said like, you know, it's
brave of you to ask these questions, even though we're
not gonna acknowledge that they're really good points, Like, I

(31:45):
don't know, it's not brave to hide a camera. No, no,
it's it's it's weird, especially if you're using it and
you're in like a with a person who you have
a social relationship with. In that way, for sure, it
was really really awkward.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah, I just uh yeah, man to use the uh
the current uh, the parlance of the times. It gave
me the ick. He already gave me, gave me the ick.
But is that hair but a little futuristic Tim Burton

(32:23):
over here?

Speaker 2 (32:23):
No, man, futuristic Tim Burton. I like it.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Yeah, uh yeah. I wasn't a big fan of the episode,
and I do like the premise. They did a great
version of this on mash Oh yeah, that's cool, a
couple of them. Hm hm uh, it's been done. It's
been done on other shows.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, I've really seen the technique and I like the
I I love the idea of seeing that done well
in Star Trek. And I didn't think it was done.
I didn't have I didn't hate this episode. There are
just a few things that really undercut it for me
and made the whole what seemed like the point of
the episode moot, or at least I felt super distracted

(33:06):
by Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
It's especially hard like we're getting like me and Effie
are now getting into the part of like uh Origin
the original series where genel Coon has left for health
reasons and they've switched over to John Locus Meredith and
it's just not the same show anymore. And like Gene

(33:29):
l Con was such a like we go write an
episode about colonialism and like the Federation of the Bad
Guys and Kirk's gonna be like this is bullshit. And
now it's just like oh, and we're immediately like the
first episode he took over a private little war is
just like sanctioning Vietnam.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
That's terrible. And that's honestly if that's really what I'm
worried about with these Star Trek, Like I I am
worried that they're gonna have a swing from like woke
trek that you know, people have problems with for whatever
they're their own little reasons, uh, which I don't really
have a problem with. We can talk about whether it's

(34:13):
woke treck. This is the thing, this is the thing
that bothers me. People talk about woke shit, and it's
like the idea of woke is that you understand the
dynamics of oppression, Like that is what that is, what
woke means, and it's like it is not that you're black,
and like so people keep using things like Woke Trek

(34:36):
to talk about like Discovery because it has like a
lot of black characters and stuff, and they feel like
it's and and like there are times when it acknowledges
like diversity and stuff, which is great. I love that.
Don't have a problem with it, but like it doesn't
question Starfleet like I want it to, you know what

(34:58):
I mean, Like nothing now of start, Like I want
us to be watching characters who are morally conflicted by
what they're doing sometimes, Like obviously I want them to
do heroic things. I want them to be good, lovable characters.
But my favorite episodes are the ones where the best characters,
the ones I think are the most valiant, do questionable,

(35:18):
questionable things and they live with it. Um Binga and
Cisco to be specific, Like those are two of my
favorite Star Trek episodes. And it's just like ooh, that
will live in my soul forever because he's like believing
in the ideal of Starfleets. I reference this recently, but

(35:39):
it reminds me of like the like Moses leading the
people into into the Promised Land or whatever, and it's
like Moses isn't allowed to go, you know what I mean.
It's like you were meant to guide them here. You're
not a person who's meant to be in the Promised Land.
And that's been used in various I FI fantasy stuff

(36:01):
over the years too. It's like you're the warrior who
gets us there, you're not the person who actually like
does it, you know what I mean? And uh, you know,
and that's not really the that that that that breaks
down because Moses isn't the warrior or whatever, he's the
leader blah blah blah. But uh but but I think
I'm Binga and Cisco both have this ideal of the

(36:23):
federation they're fighting for, and they're willing to do things
that are so counter to the ideal to support the ideal.
And that is a fascinating and tricky moral question, you know.
And that's what I love about Star Trek. It's my
favorite shit, and I feel like so much of Trek
these days is like just say a nice wrap up

(36:46):
and you're good, Like you just say a thing about
how family is important, and then I just feel like
it's working on the level of Fast and the Furious
and it's not working on the level of Star Trek
is supposed to work on. So hopefully the new guard
will come in and we'll see some of that that
we really want to see.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, I do, I do think that. Uh. I think
it's so weird. It's so many people do say this
is woke Trek and I'm like, no, it's less woke
than the previous woke like track is. They're doing feel
good stories about quirky little characters in space who sometimes
get their feelings hurt and work on motorcycles in their quarterers.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
It's like, it's yeah, the idea that woke just means
representation just pisses me off. That's not what it means.
Like that's part of it's small part of everything else
that woke means. And like like, actually the what woke
is supposed to mean, and these effing right wing assholes
have reduced woke to like having empathy or being a

(37:54):
different color or or sexuality or a woman, like those
things are what woke is instead of like and it
just it just pisss me off.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
But it also pisses me off that so many of
these liberal writers today think that as long as they
have representations, they don't have to write a good fucking
compelling story that questions anything.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
And that's what I'm talking about, Like, I think there's
this reaction, like, that's what pisses me off. So the
right wing you took woke and made it, made themselves
the anti woke, and now because of their fucking myopic
view of what woke means, they look at uh now,

(38:38):
the people, these writers who are trying to stand up
to these anti woke assholes, they write their stories and look,
I put a trans person in it, and it's like, great,
representation is important, But like, if that trans person doesn't
like challenge the status quo or like make some interesting

(38:59):
points about what trans means. If they're just a trans person,
it's not really woke. It's just representation, which is part
of it. But it's the story has to be woke.
The story has to be interesting and woke. I don't
even necessarily mean woke doesn't have to be like all lefty.
It just has to mean like, you understand the ideals

(39:20):
at play, the ideals of colonialism, the ideals, and this
episode got so close. It was clearly trying to do that.
And then it just like, man, you people, you think
the Federation's an oppressive organization. God, you're just so angry
That business me off so bad.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
I don't know how to feel about it, you know.
And back in the old days they were all like
we say, we say all the time. Old Track was woke,
but for sure, but no, not in no ways, very
very clearly the right wing people were getting it right

(40:01):
because they were like, no, Ald Star Trek was about
military kicking ass and space. It's what that shit was on.
Damn aliens with fucking feet and doodoos on their heads
trying to make my space. Took them motherfuckers out. He
wouldn't put up that bullshit.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
It just reminds me so much of people that like
don't understand the satire that is it's a bug movie.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
A bug's life ants.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Fuck you for making me keep in my not remembering
the name of this movie, Starship tavers a b movie.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
It was gonna be my next guest.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Yeah, No, like it's people that don't understand the satire
of startup Troopers, which was me when I was fourteen. No,
I take that back. I understood the propaganda aspects of it,
you know, but I didn't understand the colonialism peace really yeah,
you know, like I understood when the movie was pointing out, Ah,
look at this propaganda. Would you like to know more?

(41:05):
That's so dark and like the kids shoving the freaking
thing in the alien and I was like, who, that's
weird and gross. But like when I was fourteen or
whenever that movie came out, I was like, yeah, I
kill the bugs, but like the movie is a satire
about these this colonialism, and it's yeah, I don't know,
it's just yeah, like yeah, eh, adults should get it. Yeah,

(41:33):
we got any feedback, feedback, let's hear it, okay. Andre
Spark says, wow, three for three, what a powerful and
emotional episode. Made you care for the people even more
and gave great background on a lot of characters. Also
made Starfleet seem useful to the average person. I see
this being something they show cadets at the Academy in
the future. I'm excited for the last three episodes. I

(41:56):
love this cast awesome. I'm glad you loved it. Andre,
I really loved a lot of it. I really did,
you know, since Andre has started writing and I've started
feeling bad, it takes well, like yeah, no, I like
I'm with Andre like ninety percent of what he's saying,
But there's just this sort of like Paul over the

(42:19):
proceedings that like I just can't I hate it because
this is this is my second podcast of recording to day.
We recorded about thor Ragnarok earlier. Oh, and we're doing
our infild is it we do it? We're doing our
Infinity Saga rewatch, and so every couple of weeks we
do like another Infinity Saga movie to get through them
all and kind of like talk about them in light

(42:39):
of what's to come and sort of what we might
notice that we didn't notice before, that sort of thing.
But uh, I, I that movie is so much fun
and there's so many things that I hate being a
buzzkill about m.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
But like.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
It is so uneven as a movie and I'm not
going to go into a deep I'll tell you off
cast how I feel about it, but like it's just
so it's two movies. Stitch together, and the two movies
should not be in the same movie, Like Thor should
not lose his father, and then four scenes later be
screaming that you please don't cut my hair, like that
shouldn't matter to him. Thor just lost his like thousands

(43:18):
and thousands of year old father who like he loved
and respected and wanted to earn the respect of. And
then three scenes later you've got fucking stan Lee, like
in a silly costume, cutting his hair and he's screaming
about his hair more than he ever screamed about his father.
And it's just like those both of those movies are great,

(43:40):
but they in the same movie. They make no sense together,
and it pisses me off the whole time because I'm
loving every scene, and I'm also annoyed at the context
that that scene is happening. The funny, funny scene is
happening under the context of everything he's lost, you know.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, the name of the game in Ragnaroka is to
undercut whatever serious thing just happened with fun with comedy.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Or or right before it happens, like yes, exactly, they
just it's just there's never a moment, and I think
that's the thing I've said this so many times on
MCUs because it comes up. But uh, I think about
James Gun and his ability to pivot from like a
very funny scene and then suddenly I'm just like bawling

(44:21):
my eyes out, you know, and Taika cannot do that,
Like for whatever reason, he has these scenes that should
be sad, but he undercuts them with the humor in
his movies. He doesn't know how to pivot, and I
don't know why. I don't know what it is a
Marvel movies. I think he's not as good at it

(44:42):
as James Gun.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Period.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
I know that a lot of people say Jojo Rabbit,
and I like, Jojo Rabbit is incredibly impactful and and
there may be other things. I haven't seen all of
his movies, but I always seen this Marvel movies.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
I'm not trying to make a case for them.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Oh okay, Jojo Rabbit is like incredibly intense because it's
it's a kid. Do you know Jojo Rabbit? Do you
know the clot Oh you should watch it. It's Taycho Tit.
It's a young boy who is in the Hitler Youth
but he's like eleven. He's like a little kid. His
name is Jojo Rabbit. He's like a little kid in

(45:18):
the movie, and he is he has a mom who
he finds out so he is all in for Hitler,
and he has an imaginary friend played by taycho Atiti
who is Hitler. Like Hitler, he imagines Hitler throughout the movie,
like being like, what are the Jews?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Like?

Speaker 2 (45:36):
It just it's it's very like funny, but like also
really like tough stuff happens in the movie and he
finds out his own mother is hiding a jew under
the stairs or whatever, and then he has this like
cognitive dissonance of like, my mom is doing this. I

(45:57):
love my mom. I wouldn't turn my mom in. Sorry
getting emotional. It's a it's a great plot, and like
I think that movie is much more impactful than Ragnarok,
you know, obviously for obvious reasons. So I don't want
to say he can't do emotional stuff. That movie has
some really impactful scenes, but I think, like, I just
don't think he's as good at the pivot like that
movie has. Jojo Rabbitt has really silly scenes in it

(46:19):
and really heart heartfelt scenes, but I just don't think
he's as good as the pivot as a James Gun,
and Ragnarok is just like there's no pivots. It's just
like you just slam through these scenes. And I just
never feel like the tone hits an emotional core for me.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
M yeah, when I've seen Ragnarok once, and when I
saw it, I was just glad that I finally liked
a Thorn movie. Right.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Well, and this is We talked about this a lot
today and I'm recapping a podcast I recorded today that
will probably come out the same day this comes out.
So forgive me if you're a Strand and Panda listener
who's listening to all of this stuff. But I think
what happened is Taika had this idea of like, I
want to make a Thorn movie. That's fun, and then
they went to and they were like, Okay, you're gonna

(47:06):
make a Thorn movie.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Great.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
We need Odin to die, we need Asgard to be destroyed,
we need the Hammer to be destroyed because we need
all of that to happen for Infinity War, which is
the like the next movie, and so this is the
plot you have, and you've got to figure out how
to do all that. And he was like, wait, I
wanted a really fun thor adventure, and so he does

(47:30):
this thing where like everything on Asgard is kind of
dour and Hell is taken over Asgard and there's all
this stuff like this really dark on Asgard. But they're like,
let's send the main character to Sicard to just have
a fun, like road trip adventure with Hulk. It's like
the movie is just like, what is happening right now?

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Anyway?

Speaker 2 (47:49):
I love it. Though I love the movie. I'm not
saying it's bad. It's just really uneven in a weird
way that bobs.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Icked it enough. I likeed Love and thunder enough, like, yeah,
me too. I don't you know. I don't take Marvel
movies that seriously, Like if they knock my dick in
the dirt, I'm like, okay, cool, wow. But usually they're
just kind of fun, silly things that I enjoy.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Have you seen a Thunderbolt tip or Fantastic four?

Speaker 1 (48:14):
I saw Fantastic four?

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Yeah, would you think.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
It was a fun movie? Yeah? I I I liked.
I was excited that they made Sue the most powerful
member of the group as she is supposed to be.
And yeah, I was annoyed with Ben Grimm's storyline because
like he sees Natasha Leone like twice and they act

(48:41):
like it's a big thing at the end, and I'm like, okay,
you met her and then you stalked her and then.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yeah, he is. He's definitely underserved in that movie. Like
I almost feel like I'm glad they gave him that, yeah,
because otherwise there'd be nothing, but it does. It does
feel like there's not enough for Ben to like have.
I'm wondering if they cut a good bit of that.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Oh they had to have, Yeah, even the build up
to his claw ron time they didn't. No, there was
nothing earned about that.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Oh see, I thought that was earned. I did, Like
I really enjoyed it was just a joke, but I
really enjoyed the like setup of it being from the
cartoon and then you find out that Johnny's picking on
him about it the whole movie and then he finally
does it and it's like, yeah, that feel that felt
good to me.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
My favorite moments though, are like Silver Surfer reaching in
Okay spoiler alert, I guess Silver Surfer reaching into Sue's
belly to get the baby out, like and then the
ship zoom zipping away and then they think their away,
and then Silver Surfer that whole chase sequence and Silver
Surfer like chasing down the ship just like freaking T

(49:46):
one thousand or whatever will not stop, you know, She's
just going and going and going. And also liquid metal,
you know, like very very tea one thousand and then
favorite shot of the movie and probably one of the most
powerful shots all of Marvel. It's so freaking good. Is
Sue kind of emotional again giving birth while reaching down

(50:08):
and touching the panel so she can make the whole
ship disappear. Like it's just so like powerful and like
this woman doing this thing that is very like taxing
on a woman's body and like one of the hardest
things they can do, you know, as a human being,
to give birth to another human being like this thing,
and then at the same time like, oh, also let

(50:28):
me superhero at the same time and show my power,
like I just and it's just this zero gravity shot
of her giving birth while touching that panel is one
of the coolest shots of seeing I love it now.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
I thought it was a banger man. I thought it
was a good movie for the most part, Like there
were a few things I wish they'd gone into shallow
Ball's storyline a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah, seemed like there was more there on the cutting
room floor.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Two yeah, yeah, her and Ben really got chopped off
at the knees.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
Which I keep trying to tell myself this after Eternals,
and like, I have been a champion of keeping these
Marvel movies shorter and letting the main character be the
main character, and every character doesn't have to have as
fleshed out a plot, like I need enough to understand

(51:18):
their motivations and what they're doing. But like, sometimes to
make a good movie and make it like impactful, you
need to focus sometimes, and Eternals really taught me that
to some degree because they I think that the big
problem with that movie was they did ten characters, and
it seemed like they had one they wanted to focus on.
But then they had all these stars, and they had

(51:38):
all these people playing the ten characters, and they wanted
to give everybody their moment, and giving ten characters backstory
and moments and characters makes the movie so over stuffed
you you can't care about anybody because you're trying to
care about everybody. So like I keep trying to tell myself, like, Okay, yeah,
Ben didn't get enough and Shilah Bal didn't get enough.
But this wasn't their movie. This was Sues movie. This

(52:01):
was Reid's movie, This was Johnny's movie. Even below that, Yeah,
I don't personally agree. I like the I like to
the Eternals better than this. Oh really, I really loved
The Eternals, Like I felt like it was a sweeping,
epic and interesting.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
I am aggravated that more people didn't. It's interesting, Glama
to that movie.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
I like The Eternals. I like all the characters, but
I think the movie as a whole is so overweighted
that like it's hard to care and like I like
every individual, I don't look dislike any plot points, but
it's just so much. There's so much there, Like it
would have worked better as a series, like a ten

(52:45):
episode series or something.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
I agree with that.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, Like I think The Eternals as a whatever it was,
I don't know if it's a two and a half
or three hours long, is just too much and and
it's too much establishing of new characters and not enough
like arcs for the care. Like I wish I wish
we'd gotten everything the same, except I do wish they'd
pared down some of the side more side characters and
made them more side characters. Like if just some of

(53:10):
those characters had just had a few like we understood
who they are, we understood the motivations, but we don't
need a full arc from them. I think it would
have been a better movie and more people would have
liked it. Now, that doesn't mean that it would have
set up the Eternals the way they wanted to set
up the Eternals, but I think it would have been
more successful if they had focused in on three characters
and those had been the three characters we all left

(53:32):
the theater caring about. And then you have the the
the sort of paradox of sometimes the characters they don't
focus on are the characters you end up caring about
the most, because you're like, who's that guy? He had
one scene like maccary or whatever with the speedster. Isn't
that right McCary? Yeah, she is freaking rad as hell.

(53:56):
And even if they'd given me almost nothing to know
about her, which they don't give her a ton, But
even if they give me less, but they gave me
a few of those speedster scenes, I would have been
like I cannot wait for more of her, you know
what I mean, Like, there's a few things like that
that I think, like sometimes less is more for some characters,
and then give me their story later, like give me next,
next Fantastic Four story. I expect more, Ben, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Yeah, either way, Uh, it was the best Fantastic Four movie.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Not that they had to try very hard.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, low bar, but they low bar.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
But they cleared it all right, let's get to this little, Yeah, Stu,
let's let's do Are you good? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah, I'm good, Sorry, Stu. We we put yours, we
we we all we save yours for last often because
we save best for last. You know. Yeah, no, no
offense to Andrea, but Stude rights in every week. It
was just we appreciate, we appreciate the work you put
in there.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
People. Enough people have tuned out during the obligatory Marvel rant,
Stu little says, uh So. On the one hand, this
was another serious episode with an interesting, more classic Star
Trek dilemma with the mission and the documentary format gave

(55:08):
us a fresh visual approach to things. On the other
I'm left with some unanswered questions that may be followed
up on, but there's no guarantee, like why was the
Federation so invested in aiding the Lutani? Ike mentioned there
being a lot at stake. Is it to do with
the Klingons? Are they trying to get the Lutani to
be on their side instead of the Empires in this

(55:30):
Cold war? I also have problems with the way they
approached the documentary style, and that I feel it betrays
this nature because it's still part of a fictional project,
which is pretty common with fake documentary storytelling. Presumably umberto
put this whole thing together after the fact, when the
situation had been resolved and he had as much of

(55:50):
the facts as he needed, as well as an actual
answer to the titular question, but he chooses to edit
this thing with a clear beginning, middle, and end. In
other words, there's like an episode of drama.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Yeah, which I kind of mentioned, But I think sometimes
that is a really good effective way of making a
documentary is letting the documentarian have their experience as the
thing goes on. And I've definitely seen that in real life,
so I don't think that's necessarily not true to life
documentary style. It is a choice that is definitely a

(56:24):
choice for that documentary terry to make, because they can
easily just put a thing at the beginning saying like
I came here thinking this, but here's how I left it,
you know whatever.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Yeah, he obscures information and paints an intentionally damning picture
of Starfleet for most of it before then resolving that
mainly by making himself a subject and the thing he's
supposed to be an observer of, by the way, or
heah should have been way more pissed, yes, thank you,
and what he had been doing, especially how he asked
her if she was close to anyone from the academy

(56:55):
and was immediately ready with a oh, you know she
died right, Yeah, that's all.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
That was rough.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
That was rough, but you know what, the actress killed it,
for sure, Gooding killed it. Man, she was great. Stu continues,
and even the positive conclusion he comes to at the
end is a problem because there were actually questionable things
about Starfleet that could do with an examination. They were
getting more directly involved in a war effort, not just

(57:22):
providing humanitarian aid, and they were pushing Pike to keep
at it even after the Jakara. What our Jakaru was
revealed to be a hard to control weapon. See, this
would all be stuff that a section thirty one plot
would be good for, with their being seemingly normal Starfleet
higher ups pursuing more questionable ends because they were secret

(57:44):
assets from the organization, and in Binga's shiftiness in deflection
about his wartime activities and whether he deleted recordings or not,
because he can live with it, he can live with it.
Looks incredibly suss with all that the controversial killing of
a Klingon ambassador Romberto should be making a show about
im Benga called My Aching a Murderer, but his cookie

(58:10):
cutter optimistic ending makes him more cut out to be
a recurring director on the Real Housewives of Tracana four. Also,
this guy's been with the ship for most of the
season and this is the only thing he wants to
make a film about, not the time, god like beings
altering reality and tried who tried to force two exes
to get married? Okay, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like your your your take on that,
your headcanon. I guess Dave that uh yeah, those were
the things they would This was when they were willing
to declassify, right, uh not the trip to an ancient
site where interdimensional monsters were being kept. Where, by the way, Pike,
he did see someone die in front of him, not

(58:53):
when the ship was just swallowed up by another ship
and boarded by raiders who turned out to be a
long lost branch of pre warped humanity. It's a great point,
by the way.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, so there's a good deal to like about the episode,
but also a good bit to question a nitpick. Ps
Spot tried to bleed his humanity out of himself. Is
he stupid? That's not how genetics work? And you expect
me to believe this dumb ass could qualify for the
Vulcan Vulcan Science Academy. They were clearly just trying to
meet minority quotas with that offer.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Freaking woke Vulcan Academy.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Yeah, live long and prosper well, you know. Yeah, it's
funny though, because of the Abrams movie, it was made
clear that, you know, the Vulcan Science Academy did accept
him despite his considerable disadvantage. He was like, what disadvantage

(59:51):
do you speak of? Of course, your human mother, yep,
that's why he joined Starfleet. Y'all's a bunch of assholes. Mm.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Hmm, thank you, Stu. That was wonderful and what a
great point about being like you ever seen anyone die?
And he's like, well, people wouldn't like it if you
questioned them about it, Like he watched that guy die
in the in the episode like three episodes ago in
the Temple that like ran towards the beam like he did.

(01:00:23):
You should know you probably your crew probably questioned him
about it, like in a like you know whatever, it's
called debriefing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Yeah. I don't feel like this one was uh adequately written.
I don't think they looked at it enough. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
Oh wait, yeah we we We came up with a
couple of really good head cannons though. And that's what
I appreciates about you, Dave.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Oh is that is that it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
That's what I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
That's what you keep me around for.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Do you know what I'm referencing?

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
I don't know what your what the hell you're talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
It's from letter Kenny, I asked, because you answered it
exactly right. In Letter Kenny, there's a guy who always
tells a girl he's like, that's what I appreciates about you,
and she goes, oh, is that what you appreciates about me,
and so you answered it exactly right, like you knew
what I was picking up when I was putting down,
but you weren't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
No, No, I hate letter Kenny. Oh yeah, yeah. I
tried a couple of different episodes, and I just I
couldn't make it through interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I hate I like hate it it. I do not
hate it. I think it's really funny, but I did
I could didn't stick with it. I stick with it
for a little while, but I did never. I never
finished it, and like, I definitely think it wore on
me a little bit. Like it's very funny. First, I
often will show people that first scene of like them
just picking on the two dudes that are trying to

(01:01:53):
take off their shirts is like whatever, it's it's so
I like their I like they're just like patter and
there there. The comedy style is interesting and different than
anything else I know, but like, yeah, I get a
little I can't watch too much of it at a time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Yeah, the pattern specifically makes it. It feels like ain't
some in my brain. I just can't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
I get that, I get that. I really enjoy it, though,
Oh man, watching Oh you know what I saw this
week that uh, I really enjoyed that, like so different
than they have watched lately. But I went to see
Naked Gun, the new Liam Neeson Naked Gun. Sure, great,

(01:02:36):
just funny, just you know, it was very much like
the old Naked Gun. It really recaptured the magic as
it were, and like it didn't try to do anything
evolved or different. It just did a naked gun movie
and it felt really funny and I laughed a lot,
and I was in the theater. I was in the

(01:02:57):
theater and so like a lot of people around me
were laughing hard, and it just felt it felt like
I hadn't sat in the movie and just laughed that
hard in a while. Because a lot of the movies
I go to have whatever the thing, the things they
go to. I don't go to theater for comedy very often,
I guess, is what I'm trying to say, Like other
things they go for are you know, maybe partially comedy.
There's a laugh here there, but they're not like laugh

(01:03:17):
a minute riot type of situations, And the whole point
of that movie is to make you laugh. And it's
really good. Mm hmm, okay, definitely worth a worth a
worth a watch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
I mean, I've heard really good things. I am. You know,
I think the most I've enjoyed any naked Gun anything
is probably just like the real life love story that
seems to be happening between Liam Neeson and Pamela Anderson.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Oh yeah, for sure, that's just adorable. Yeah, it is,
it is, and they're great. They're great in the movie together.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Yeah, I was excited about that movie. Like I like
Police Squad and I've always meant to go back. And
you know, I've seen big chunks of Naked Gun all
the movies, but I've never sat down and watched them,
so I want to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
The reason it came to mind when you were talking
about the pattern is I think the Naked Gun movies
have a similar like fast pattern to them that reminds
me a little bit of Letter Kenny. Then, just like
so like I can't if I'm not in the mood,
I could see where I feel like I got ants
in my brain where it's just like they're talking so fast,
but it's just so funny that I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
But well, yeah, there's there's a difference to me, like
because those the Naked Gun movies really do that that
sort of old school pattern. Yeah, for sure. Like there's
a lot of nuance to it that I don't feel
like I've heard in Letter Kenny, where it's just like,
oh yeah, them spitting out lines.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Oh no, see, I think Letter Kenny is the same way.
It's just different. It's a different culture. It's that like
Canadian culture. Sometimes I have to wait, like it deimes.
It takes me episodes before I understand what certain lines
mean because it's not my culture, or maybe some of
it is like made up. I really don't know. But
like I think Letter Kenny, you kind of get it
as you go along. But it's very similar, like similarly

(01:05:05):
stacked with jokes and the quick pace of the jokes
and stuff, and similarly like silly anyway. But but Naked
Gunn was really solid.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Schaeffer directed it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Yeah, that's right, you know what you mention it, I'd
forgotten and that makes sense and I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
Maybe I'll maybe I'll make Page watch that because she
loves the Onely Island. Guys. Yeah, we just watched pop
Star Never Stop Stopped, Never Stop, Never Stopping?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Is that good? I haven't seen that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
You haven't seen that? Oh man, I know that my
reaction of like, you haven't seen that probably makes you
immediately bristle, like another thing people are telling me I
have to see.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
I've become calloused over time to it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
Dude, most underrated movie I know of.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Yeah, I know it didn't do well.

Speaker 2 (01:05:56):
It did terribly. The marketing wasn't there whatever, But it
is a banger and like if you like Lonely Island,
if you like those like songs and stuff that Lonely
Island did on the show, it is amazing. And it's
a whole album of material of Lonely Island material, and
in the movie they do like some of its music videos,
some of its live performances. But it's just like a

(01:06:19):
character and it's it's it's really really funny cool.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Yeah, we have it on our saved list. Like Bethany
and I are both really big Lonely Island.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
I'll come over and watch it with you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
I love it. I will.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
I'll drive it over there and maybe maybe paid maybe
Page will come to I want to watch it again.
We watched it like three weeks ago and it was
just so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
All right, well that's that's probably all we got. We
talked about Star Trek a little in there. I think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Mm hmmm, back to it then.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
N true.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
There mom prosper.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or malagus dot tv for his web videos. If
you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out
the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.

(01:07:24):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music

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Strange New Worlds 3x07 - "What is Starfleet?"

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Strange New Worlds 3x07 - "What is Starfleet?"