September 8, 2025 • 54 mins
Divert power to cliché, snarky one-liners, maman! Even in the face of death, and with no one listening, it's time to get in an old yuk-yuk! But ain't nobody laughing at the end, maman. It goes from tragic story to a tragic couple of missteps in franchise continuity! What are they doing, maman?
Episode Reviewed: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x09 - "Terrarium"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Matthew Carroll
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues Dave and Matt's ongoing journey discussing Star Trek as they have since the late 1980s.
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Episode Reviewed: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x09 - "Terrarium"
Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Matthew Carroll
Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues Dave and Matt's ongoing journey discussing Star Trek as they have since the late 1980s.
Join Us:
Site: http://startrekucast.com
Apple: http://bit.ly/StuCast
Spotify: http://bit.ly/StarTrekUCast
Spreaker: http://bit.ly/StuCastSpreaker
David C. Roberson's Newsletter: https://davidcroberson.substack.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, we were talking
about Strange New Worlds three oh nine Terrarium right after
these words from our mystery sponsors.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Stop making faces.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome to Star Trek Universe podcast. Were you listening on
two lifelong friends sit and chat about Star Trek. My
name's Matthew Carroll.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm David c. Robertson.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
What's up, Dave? How you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Oh? You know, just tired? Just yeah, I'm ready for
this show to be done. For the Strange New Worldshuh,
I hear that. I hear that.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know. I guess we can jump right into Terrarium.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh yeah, can.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I assumed you would hate this episode from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I hadn't yet realized it was in of me Mine.
I thought it was going to be a Just or
Tega's castaway episode, or or more likely, I just watched
The Martian recently and that movie is just great. Uh
and uh, I wish you built the little water processor.
I was like, Oh, it's going to be The Martian,
like they're doing the Martian episode, and then she met
(01:19):
the Gorner and I was like, Oh, it's gonna be
enemy Mine, which Star Trek has done before. Yes, I
vaguely remember that they did. What was it a Kardassian
or Jim Haddar in one or was it a Kardassian
in Next Generation or something? Where was that?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I was remembering a Roemulin and Jordi but that might
be wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but but this
this plot has existed before in various media, but started
off for sure. I I didn't hate the episode. What
I was gonna say is I knew you'd hate this
episode because it was it or Taga takes focused Like
I really it was just like, oh man, she's gonna
be making snarky comments by herself on a planet for
(02:05):
an hour.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, and that was That's exactly what they did. Like,
as the fucking shuttle is crashing, she is like yelling
out this stupid thing going break snacks, I'm like, shut
the fuck up.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Ye iknew hate brings spoks to die. Yeah, okay, yeah,
none of that bothered me. I don't have the same
aversion to Ortegas that you do. This episode is somewhat
uninspired obviously. As we said, this plot has been done before.
(02:40):
It was a little interesting that they tied it into
this other race of beings that I don't know, but
you said the is it the Metatron? The Metrons? The Metrons?
Where are they from?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
In Star Trek the original series, the specifically the episode
Arena who with a Gorn? With the Gorn?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, oh okay, yeah, I didn't remember that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
There's no fucking reason to bring the Gorn, to bring
the Arena the Metrons into this, Like, there was no
reason for that. That was just once again rehashing. Just
I hate it so much, I agree, I.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Mean, especially when we just did this like trelaane Q episode,
Like it feels like the same sort of a plot
device where you end the episode of being like it
was all of you know, high jinks from a higher being.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, and you know, in the original series, it was
a situation of like, the Gorn killed a bunch of
people on Cestus three, Kirk followed them bloodthirstily into whoops
accidentally Metrons space, and the Metrons were like no, fuck you,
(03:51):
and the corn Captain and Kirk down to the planet
and let them duke it out. And then when Kirk
refused to kill him, he was like, oh, okay, you're
only half savages like I thought you guys were savages.
But since now you know, now, I'm kind of like
you knew that though Ortegas became friends with the Gorn,
(04:12):
that now that you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, But then then they they still killed the gor
the other That's what I think. That's why they they
they included that makes me. That makes me sadder because like, actually,
the one thing I liked about this episode as much
as I hated it in the moment, I liked it
they killed the Gornu because it really gave the episode
(04:35):
weight to me. Like I got sad. I cried when
the Gordon died. I was like, I like literally yelled out,
like what the hell, because I was just like, you've
you've come past your hatred, You've done all these things,
and then they let the Gordon die, And I just
thought that was a really bold decision and it made
the whole episode have more weight. It gives it stakes
in a way that like I didn't expect it to have.
I really thought they were we were gonna have a
(04:56):
new Gordon friend who was gonna like be a piece
envoy to the Gorn or something like that, you know,
or or a Gorn and starfleet like like like whatever,
like some sort of gorn to be an ally uh
and then staid they killed him and it was a
harsh thing to see, uh and and like really hard
(05:16):
and I yelled out and I got sad, and like
that's cool and and and the lingering effects that she's
gonna have the problems with the like la on for
that reason, Like, I think that's all really good, but
hearing that part of the reason is because they they
basically needed it not to be fully resolved. They needed
it not to end well, they needed it to end
bad to align with Cannon. Like that makes me less
(05:37):
less proud of the episode for going there.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah. Yeah, they didn't need to have the metrons. It
didn't have to be the metrons. It could have agreed
anything else.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It could have just been them interacting on a planet. Yeah,
Like they could have just done enemy Mine and it
could have still ended this way. The metron was just
to throw it. This would not have bothered me. I
love these kinds of like connections to previous episodes normally,
but they've seemed like they're just doing it all the
time this season.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, they absolutely are. And it's like to the point
where it's like undermining the original stories.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Now, Yes, we have talked with this before. I think
that when you use something from cannon and you don't
put a new brick in the wall, mm hmm, you
are using that piece of cannon up we talked about
with the Borg. That's that's my theory on why the
Borg stopped working in Voyagers, Like they weren't adding to
they were just using the fear that we had all
(06:35):
been instilled from TNNG and they were just sort of like, hey, hey,
it's Borg again. And and every time you use them,
you're watering them down, you make them less of a
threat unless they you know, you have to add to them,
you have to grow them, you have to change them.
And so this season has been a lot of just like, hey,
we're pointing out this thing is showing up again. That's
from an old episode of original series, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, and they actively made it like the original serious
episode doesn't make sense. Why Well, because the Metrons were
surprised that Kirk didn't wasn't gonna kill the Gorn. But
they've literally already seen Ortega's not kill the Gorn and
(07:20):
be like we are friends now.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, yes, but if they're looking at like species on
species violence, the humans still killed the Gorn, you know
what I mean. And I understand that they should have,
uh at least seen that they weren't half savages, or
they were they were only half savages as it were,
but who knows, you know, the Gordon still died.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah. If there's such great godlike, godlike beings, they shouldn't
understand nu ones.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Maybe. By the way, I don't understand why these fuckers
didn't come down here with their facers on stun instead
of kill.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, agreed. I mean, it's it's Lawn. She's pretty uh
you know, true, you're happy, and I could see her
like just she sees a gorn, she spends that thing
to kill and hits the It's it made sense to
me that she would try to kill a Gorn in
that moment.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
But it was like multiple people firing at once. It
wasn't just Lawn. Oh really, I thought it was multiple people.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I I guess I wasn't paying us close attention. But yeah,
she's the one that it fell to. She's leading the
party or whatever. I really like enemy mine. I really
like the concept of putting two enemies on a planet
and having them have to learn to coexist. It's a
beautiful story so appeals to my sensibilities and my own morals,
(08:38):
Like I believe in that. I believe people that are
enemies just need to need interaction to come together. You know,
to some degree, there's obviously limits to that, but I
do believe in this ideal, and so seeing seeing that
happen was great. I did not need the Ahora supplot.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
No.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Well, again, this has been my This has been my
story on a bunch of the episodes recently where it's
like I really like this story, but if it had
more time, Like I felt like the Gorn thing was
a little rushed like it also it felt like it
should have taken longer. And it almost does feel like
(09:22):
the stuff on the planet feels like they've been there
for weeks because they've learned to trust each other and
all this stuff that's that seems like it should have
taken weeks. But we know that on the ship there's
this ticking clock, you know what I mean, and it's
like they can't they can't stay there long. So we
know it's only been a couple of days, and it
just feels the stuff on the ship made this. I
(09:43):
had this complaint like literally last episode where we were
talking about like the ship not making sense because they
have they have this they shout to have this full ship,
but they still let it look empty, you know, stuff
like that, where like one plot line it should inform another,
but it doesn't. And so to me, it would have
been more since if they had left, you know, like
they're like, we we have to leave, we can't stay here,
(10:05):
and like pursue her and then she sees them come
back or something, and then that's when she hits the flare,
you know, right.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Or you know, something else they might have done on
the original series or another Star Trek is like the
captain goes like I'm going to do everything I can
to get our man back and then telling off, you know,
like the admiral or whoever who's like hollering for supplies
like we'll be there soon, you know. Yeah, felt like
I didn't need Uhura to like fudge the numbers and
(10:36):
take a notch out of her credibility. Borderline seemed like
at times that her hero was like trying to convince
Pike to find Erica, like tearfully, and.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I'm like, why, well I don't, Yeah, I mean, she
was I should have she should she does she should
trust Pike that he's going to do everything you can,
because she hasn't had any reason not to think that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And he even said at the end he was going
to go into anyway.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, and they were going with this like idea at
the end when when he when you find out he
knew she fubb fudged the numbers, Yeah, it's like, oh, well,
it's okay. Sometimes it's good to break the rules, if
if for the right reasons. And and and that's a
lesson that a captain often has to learn against an admiral.
They don't trust stuff like that, you know. In this case,
(11:28):
I don't think that he is a character that has
earned any mistrust from Ohurra. And she's putting a whole
ship at risk. It's it's it's just not a good call.
And it wasn't her call. And this is a thing
that I'm constantly I've rigged on many times. When someone
(11:48):
does a bad thing like that, they should have consequences.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
M hm.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
They like she should lose rank, or she should go
to the brig for a while, like something should happened
to her, Like I understand she did it for the
right reasons, but like the thing about an organization like
this is you have to follow a protocol and you
break the rules. Honestly, any in our society if you
break the rules even for the right reason. Now we
(12:13):
have things like pardons to pardon people if they've done
things for the right reason or whatever. But like, if
you've done if you believe in something strong enough to
break the law to solve it, you should be accepting
the consequences to some degree, and so like I don't
know what the consequences should have been, like even just
(12:35):
anger from Pike, you know what I mean, Like why
didn't you trust me? Like like like like a like
a harder conversation than just like there you go lying
to me about the science. Like that's not that's not
what he needs from his crew. And it's really disturbing
to not put any guardrails or consequences around those kinds
(12:56):
of actions.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, I think in classic Star Trek what they have
generally done, it feels like, is in such a situation
where the captain is in a bind and someone has
to fudge a number or something, they're gonna be like, yeah,
I know you fudge the numbers. You know you can.
You're confined to quarters until further notice, and then the
(13:21):
person will smile and he's they're like in good work
or something. You know, it's like, yeah, you're being punished,
but you're really getting just you're.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Just it's exactly what I would have done, but I
still have to punish you. I still have to be
a captain. And I always feel that way on these
shows where like people do things that are and a
lot of times it's like things with high stakes, you know,
police or whatever, like on other shows where they're like
police or like breaking the law and it's like they're
doing it for the right reason and you get why
they're doing it, but like there's a commanding officer finds
(13:51):
out and they're just like, yeah, you know, you did
it for the right reason. So I'm not gonna pursue
any no like that. That's still wrong. It's still you
still gotta you are now breaking the law or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I don't know, yeah, uh so, I you know, I don't.
The reason I heart back on Old Star Trek and
what they would have done is because this is in
the same universe supposedly, So that's kind of always what
I'm looking for, is are those kind of solutions and
those kind of uh punishments like for things like this,
(14:24):
and I just I don't know. Yeah, it's like they don't.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Pike is a little loose with his crew, and I
mean that is a different kind of captain. You know,
I'm not going to cook dinner for you tomorrow night. Yeah,
but I'll see you on Sunday or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
You can still come, but you can't eat. You can
have appetizers, yeah man. So yeah, it's I didn't hate
this episode.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I really didn't. I feel like I have to say
that every week because we always have some may complaints
right now, I don't like, I'm trying to really just
enjoy these episodes for what they are. And I really did,
like I had a good time. I uh, I got
like I said, I cried when the Gordon was shot
or tag its doesn't really bother me. So like I
enjoyed the enemy mind stuff, but I was just it's
(15:19):
just I constantly count like being like this should be
taking longer than we know it is because of the ship. Yeah,
and I had hard times suspend. I'm having a hard
times suspending disbelief when things are like just obviously don't
add up.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, let me clarify something though, like it's not that
I hate uh Melissa to via sure, I'm sure I
would like the character if they didn't write her the
way they do, right, which is like every line has
to be snark, yeah, some kind of stupid joke, and
they're like, even as she's walking along, she's going, you know,
(15:55):
take the shot all they said, it'll be fine. They
said that is such a cliche line. I hate here
that in any show.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, it's it's directly out of die Hard, Like that's
a die Hard line that they're like repurposing, which I
thought was funny because this isn't a this isn't a
die Hard scene or like like reducts or whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
But like so many shows say this, they do this
bit over and over again, like oh uh, safety's my
middle name? Wait, you said you're there was danger was
your middle name? Yeah, it's a fucking stupid exchange. Yeah,
it's so bad. By the way, at the beginning, when
when she mentions like the ghost stories of shit something
(16:35):
like Division twelve would look into like that was just
like a throwaway line that was also like like I'm
like that. I feel like it was a pitch like, ooh,
what's Division twelve looking for ghosts and outer space? What
the fuck?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Oh isn't is that that's not a thing from a
previous trek. That was just a throat that I love. Okay, Yeah,
I just assumed it was something we may have heard
from heard of before.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, no, as far as I know, Like, and maybe
I'm wrong, maybe I just forgot, but Division twelve, Oh,
it seems something Division twelve would look look into. Like
it feels like a backdoor pilot line. Yeah, it's like
any set up for a pitch or something.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
That wasn't like the one where.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, looking it up online, all I'm seeing is this episode.
So yeah, you must be right. I really, I really
just assumed it was something I didn't remember. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I did laugh because they were supposed to meet up
with the Constellation and Captain Decker, but then the Metrons
came into it and I was like, oh, now you're
pulling even more from the original stuff. Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, and Decker being the guy from the most picture.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Well that's his son.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Oh Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
The Constellation was borderline destroyed by the planet eating Doomsday
Machine from the episode The Doomsday Machine and by that point,
Captain Decker was Commodore Decker, and that's the guy that's
like he was overacting a lot because he thought it
was a kid's show. But it kind of just like
really plays really well when you watch episode because he's
(18:14):
watched most of his crew die and he's gone insane.
Oh yeah, and he's like he's seen this planet killer
that's so much bigger than the ship, you know, and
he's just like Jim they say, and there's no devil,
but I've seen him right out of the gates of hell.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It's great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Oh man. I got a text from a friend this
week and they were like, Matt, are you watching Strange
any Worlds? And I was like, I am seen it all.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
They're like, I am obsessed with it. They had just
found it and been watching it. I guess season one. Uh,
And it just it just makes me feel bad because
I love, I want to love this show so much
and they just do you know. It's it's very similar
to how we felt with Discovery, like they'll just be
like these glaring problems with an episode and I just
(19:08):
I don't know, I feel like I I'm in a
bad place because I'm I'm I've often talked about there's
a certain amount of disbelief you can suspend, and then
once you you're not doing that anymore. M hm, You're
not along for the ride anymore somehow, and then you
just end up over analyzing things. And I think I'm
in that place with this show, yeah, where I watched
(19:31):
an episode and instead of just like, this is how
the episode happened, let's talk about it, I just feel like, well,
they should have done this, you know, like they should
have had this and they should have included this plot.
And instead of like I feel like I'm not along
for the ride right now, which is not a good
place to be, I'm trying to like we had a
few good episodes this this, And there's the thing like
a lot of times it's just like as long as
(19:51):
the episode doesn't have like a glaring almost like cannon
break issue, then I'm then I don't. I don't think
I that way. I think it's just like these sorts
of big structural issues of episodes where it just like
bothers me the whole time. So it makes every interaction
with the Gorn feels rushed because it feels like this
(20:12):
is happening over two days, and every time they cut
back to the ship, I'm like, this episode would be
more effective if I never saw the ship again, Like
I would just feel longe, it would feel like enemy mine,
you know. Yeah, and so so yeah, I hate being
that way. I really do. As a fan, I do
not like feeling this way. And so I guess I'm
right there with you. I guess I'm ready for the series,
(20:33):
the season to end. Maybe after a little break from it,
I'll feel better next season.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, I mean they're they're just digging themselves, like they like. Okay,
so there's this bit where the Metron says and maybe
someday we can reset your perception of the Gorn as well, Yeah,
which seems to be an indication that like, oh, we're
pointing out the fact that the Gorn looked different in
the original series. Okay, but did you retroactively do that
(21:00):
because Captain Lorca had an original series Gorn skeleton in
his room in the Discovery.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Right, Yeah, the whole uh Gorn looked different. Like, there's
a lot of ways you can take that, But yeah,
that line does not solve the problem.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
It doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
No, And you could easily say, just like the Gorn,
the Gorn have different like different subspecies of the Gorn,
you know or whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Like you subcops, Like I could look at Chris Farley
and then look at Tommy Davidson and go like, those
aren't the same species. Well, sure they are. They're just
they just look different, right, sure, Like we all like
I'm I, I have a much bigger frame than my
brother in law Spencer, for instance, right, right, like an
(21:48):
alien species might go, well, that doesn't look look the
same species. They're kind of similar, yeah, and a lot
of similarities, right, And even just.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Looking at the original series Gorn, obviously it's a guy
in a suit as opposed to this big CGI guy
or whatever with a lot bigger frame. But like they're
still they still look basically the same, Like they have
the basic same head shape. They just have like a
big hunch on their back whereld make them look more
lizard like, make them look less human.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I also have a big hunch on my back
that makes me look less human.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
It's the computer hunch.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, we're all getting that now, that nerd neck they say, yeah, yeah,
just looking at the original series directly next to this
episode's gore, and I'm like, I see they're going for
the same thing. It's just better technology and better you
know whatever, They're going for the same like basic design
of an animal. R Like, Yeah, it just doesn't really
(22:46):
bother me. And so I wish they just wouldn't acknowledge
it or like wouldn't worry about it so much.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, I think it's weird that they're bringing it up,
or I don't know what was so wrong about the
original look. I mean, just do it better, don't You
don't have to redesign it completely and make them look
like like I've said, the Gordon specifically from this season.
I don't remember feeling that way last year, but the
(23:13):
Gordons specifically from the season have looked like those damn
creatures from the Dark Crystal or like they're like real
big and hunched over.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, that's the biggest difference, is like the body shape
that the heads just look like they're a better version
of what they did back then. I think like they
look more like a lizard's head, but they're the basic same,
Like the the eye sockets are the similar shape, and
the jaws is similar, like they went for a similar thing.
But uh, it's just they really redesigned the body, which
(23:44):
I get because that original Gorn is just like literally
just a guy in a suit.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I think I like what they've done.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I really do.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I like the updated Gorn, unlike you know, like the Klingons,
where I just was annoyed by the inconsistencies. The Gorn
is just such a sort of footnote like with this
one episode. I'm fine with them sort of updating the
look and the design. But yeah, yeah, I don't know, man,
I don't know. Uh, I'm glad this episode hit me
(24:16):
in the feels. That's all I can That's that's the
positive thing I can say. And I was not bothered
by Ortegez's jokes. Really, those don't really bother me. Like
I sometimes I think they're dumb, but sometimes, you know,
yeah whatever, Sometimes shows are too joking, and she is
a jokey character. I prefer a show of a jokey
(24:37):
character then the overall tone be joking all the time,
which I think at least there's that, at least she is.
She's the one character that sort of like there are
other characters that do that. From time to time, but
she's the one that's like really guilty of it.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
It just seems like a personality quirk. I guess they've
really started doing I mean, well Polia is like that too,
but very different. It's very different. But it's just like
every line has gotta be some kind of silly bullshit.
But I did like at a certain point, like when
she the way she reacted with them killing the Gorn
was great. Yeah, her screaming at the metrons that she
(25:14):
knows she's being watched, all that was good. Like the
serious moments with the Gorn were good. The serious like
where she pretends to eat the chest piece, the chest
piece at the end next to the that made me
tear up a little.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah too.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
But you know, I was confused by other things in
the episode, like initially when the Gordon throws her the
raw meat, she eats it. And then later on the
Gordon throws her some food and she like pulls out
the flame and she's like, I know you don't like
the fire, but I had to cook it. You didn't
cook the other thing, the raw thing. You just started
eating this raw bug. Yeah, well you can eat raw meat.
(25:52):
It's just she was very emphatic, I'm human, I have
to cook my food. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Well, I think the first time she just went for
where she was starving. The second time she was like,
I really need to cook stuff. That was disgusting.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, I also didn't feel like I didn't feel like
she was there long enough to be starving.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
That's the thing is like.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
You have water, water will sustain you for like thirty
days without any food, like and not that she needs
to do that. She needs like food is good because
it will give her the energy to get her off
the planet. But like this this episode, I'm just revisiting
my same for fucking complaint. But this episode is trying
(26:34):
to feel like she's down there for two months. But
then they decided to put the ship on a like
two day clock, and that is just the same dumb
stuff they do from time to time, where like the
B plot fucks up the A plot and yeah, it's
just dumb.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I've gone two days not eating, just an ADHD hyperfocus.
Yeah yeah, sorry, I you know. Now, did they show
her building shit a few episodes ago just to make
it believable that she could create a universal translator?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I don't remember her building shit, but oh, in.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
The documentary episode, she was building that motorcycle in her quarters.
And then in this episode when they're panning over to
see her like doing the fit check, staring in the
mirror and smiling like a idiot, like, they showed the
motorcycle and all the building stuff. Again.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Oh no, I didn't see that, but it makes sense
if she's a pilot, that she might have a history
of like racing or motorcycles or whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, I just don't remember them ever bringing that up
before this season.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, me neither, but I don't remember it. It could
be something that was there. And yeah, I also just
thought like they had her do all that stuff, and
that's why I thought it was gonna be The Martian.
When I saw the episode, I was like, Oh, they're
gonna kind of parody The Martian here because she's like
building her little world and trying to survive. I was like, Oh,
that's cool. I love The Martian. This will be a
(28:00):
cool little call out. And then her stuff that she
did didn't end up mattering Yeah, no, it didn't. Like
and then they towards the end her like interfacing with
the technology of the Gorn and fixing it so it
would contact the ship and the explosion, like all that
felt a lot more earned to the Ortegis character. I think, yeah, yeah,
(28:23):
the stuff she did at the beginning where she's like,
I created a water condenser in thirty seconds by tearing
apart my shuttle, like that just felt like it wasn't
I don't know, it wasn't something we've ever known of
her in the past, And it just felt like it
was a weird. It was it felt weird.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
And then and then all of that got sucked into
like a sinkhole or whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
So it wasn't like she needed that to survive because
then she finds the Gorn. And also did the Gorn
have a water condenser because it never shows her drink
water past that, I don't think, so did she do
it again with Gorn tech tech?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, it was weird. She just drinks piss out of
those worm things. I don't know, I don't know what
it is gross. Maybe those worm things are like part cactus.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
I will say the episode, like the structure of the
episode on the planet, the plot on the planet with
her with like the ticking clock of the planet going
towards that gas giant or whatever, and it's gonna get
too close and it's gonna make it poisonous and then
using that as the flair and everything. That was fun.
(29:31):
That was cool writing. I liked it a lot. It
was really cool.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, I've cleaned it.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Okay, Yeah, nothing nothing, I guess to nothing groundbreaking, but
you know.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, no. I I even told my wife. I was like, Oh,
she's gonna they're gonna find a way to ignite the
gas to make it to use it as like a flare,
Like that's what they're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Interesting here.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I'm not even complaining about this. I just didn't understand it.
And maybe you maybe you know what the hell they're
talking about. There's a point where Pike is at the
con next to Una and he says, other than Ortega's,
I'm the best pilot in the on the ship, and
she goes, never heard that one before, sir, And he
(30:22):
just like throws up his hands like what. I don't
understand that exchange, Like what was what were they talking about?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Oh, he was just talking about how he's the best
pilote other than Artigas. And then she's like, oh bringing
that up again, are we Pike? Oh you're always talking
about how you're the best pilot?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Does he do that? Not that we've ever seen that.
I mean, I think there was some reference to him
being a pilot at some point. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
it just seemed like there was something like I just
didn't get the joke.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Maybe it was just her giving him crap for being
proud of his piloting.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah. It also seemed like the way they said she
said it that like they've heard that from other people
before and it wasn't true, you know, I was it
just I just wasn't sure how to take it. I
just didn't know what they I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
That's how I took it.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I don't know. All right, all right, I'll take it.
I'll take it. My last bit was like, so Pike
was like, okay, scan as many moons as you can,
starting with the nearest one first, and then when we
see the flare, I'll be damned if it wasn't the
nearest one.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Oh, I didn't see, And I guess I also assume that, like.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Maybe they magnified it.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, they might have magnified it, or or they might
have moved or whatever, as soon as they like when
they see the flare. Yeah, we've definitely seen them many times.
Be like, zoom in on that moon and then they
zoom in and it's like, you know, nothing has changed,
but the screen is showing something much closer.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So I assume that's what that was.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, Oh, we've got some feedback if you'd like to
talk about that, Yes, I would. I would like. First off,
I got Andre Sparks.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Andre.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Uh, hey, guys, so I knew there was no way
I was talking you two into liking the last episode.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I love that. He's like, but I'm not even I'm
not even trying. I'm not even trying that week.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But I will say I like the end credit scene
with Spock in the full Vulcan. That would be the
uh Paton Oswald.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
As for this week, the Lost in Space episode was
a little long, but the relationship definitely was told well.
The end with the flashing light actually being something or
someone surprised me. I thought she was going crazy.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Also, right after Pike sent the landing party down, I
was like, oh, snap, that's the wrong one to send.
You had a trigger finger ready for.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Sure, Like, I get it because they're friends, and she
was like, I am not gonna do it. I'm gonna
save my friend. But yeah, yeah, and she's a scree
gee for whatever, so it makes sense, but is a
bummer overall.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Still one of the better episodes this season. I don't
know how the season will end, though. My guest is
the ghost spyware on the Enterprise will be revealed with
the crew and mayhem will begin, or the Gorn baby
will finally pop out of Pike's girlfriend. I think both
of those things will happen.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah, the Vesta Pa coming back and uh yeah, either
that or that's gonna I mean, I guess I could
see them waiting on the Vesta Pa for a future
season or something. But it did feel like it was
like it was coming soon. So we got two episodes left,
so we got that, and it felt like this season
was setting up. When this season started and it was
(33:53):
the Gorn like where the Gorn War sort of thing
was going on. I really thought we were gonna be
facing like another Gorn threat before the season was over.
But I guess they did. They send them to sleep
for a long time. Yeah, yeah, so I guess I
guess that's probably not it. I really thought we were
gonna get another Gorn focused episode before the end of
(34:14):
the season, but we did maybe not it well this one,
but this was not the Gor the people, but the
one Gorn.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Well, you know, like in an overarching sense, it was
a pretty good structure because they dealt with the Gorn
as a whole and put them to sleep. But then
the same way doctor who did by killing all the
dolegs and then you have that great episode where the
Doctor has to face that one dollc you had Erica
who had the trauma from the Gorn, who had to
(34:45):
face that Gorn and come to an understanding with it.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I expect we'll see the Gorn, if
not this season again next season because or future seasons.
I think we're gonna have a different Orteiguez when they
come against the Gorn again.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
And I do like that they they really did try.
I agree with the with the mechanic thing not so much,
but they really did try to like sprinkle In and
her hatred of the Gorn for what happened to her
at the beginning of the season.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You know what I mean. Yeah, I suspect and I
hope maybe more than suspect, uh, that we're going to
start to see the crumbling of Ortega's friendships with the crew.
I felt like the way they sort of explained, they
(35:37):
sort of hinted at something going on in that future
episode that was kind of redoing balance of terror.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Hmm h.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
They didn't go deeply enough into it. It felt like
it was still looming.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Oh man, any of rewatched that episode.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Some breakdown between specifically Ortega's and Spock and Balkans, Yeah, yeah,
mm hmm. Or maybe they didn't that they don't intend
to do anything with it. She was just filling in
for the the racist guy on the original series episode.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Right right, totally.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I never know what these with these writers.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Thank you Andre that for sending that in. That's a
I I I appreciate that he's digging the season. Yeah,
like I said, Uh, my friend wrote me this week
loving Strange New World, and I was like I did too. No,
I'm in a dark, dark place. Well this season I've
liked probably you know, four or five of the episodes
(36:38):
like a lot, and then I've had just some sort
of glaring issue with a bunch of the other ones.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah. Uh once again, not even enemy mine here, but yeah,
this is this is fun, Stu Stu Little says, calls
this one. Eric got her arms wide, of course, saying
Darmock and season five opener of the Next Generation, Hi, guys,
(37:04):
and we're back after a sudden, unexplained hiatus where absolutely
no episode of Star Trek was aired last week. That
was weird. Huh, terrarium coming out your ass would have
been less racially specific seeming, Erica. I don't know what
he's talking about there.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Oh, she had coming at your ears in the episode
was like, humhm, it's like it's a phrase.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Oh god, Yeah, that whole thing was dopey. Has there
ever been a fictional character whose middle name was literally danger?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I think Austin Powers, right, yes, I think Austin Powers.
Austin Danger Powers absolutely good call man. Yeah, I feel
good about remembering that.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, it happened so rarely.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I know.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
My memory is so bad that when I'm the one
on a podcast to remember something, it really does like
film you with pride for the next number of days.
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, well, what if you could remember?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
That's true, That's true. Hey, it would impact me more
if I remember, if I didn't immediately forget what I
was proud of.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
A wormhole? What the frail? Any other Far Escape fans here?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
No? No, Unfortunately, I've never seen it.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I have it, I never watched it.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Never watched it? Was that the one that was also Ruddenberry.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
No, it was on Sci Fi Channel and had Jim
Hinson muppets.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
When?
Speaker 3 (38:38):
It was like Kevin Sorbo, is that you're talking about Andromeda?
That's what I'm thinking of. I get those two confused.
But I've heard good things about Far Escape.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah. Yeah, I actually bought Andromeda and far Escape at
the same time on DVD from a thrift store like
two miles down the road, and they were both four
dollars each the complete series.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Wow, that's great. It's crazy, but I never have watched him. Well, Stu,
should we watch Our Escape? Is is it worth? Is
it worth the squeeze?
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah? Man, let us know. Stu continues, Erica is gone.
Oh no, anyway, do you think Andrew Kogi would be
willing to sign on to play Sulu in Strange two worlds?
I don't know who that is. Who is Andrew Cogi?
I don't know ko j I, He says.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, pulling him up. Andrew Cogi. Yeah, still don't know
who he.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Is, pulling him up, tugging him off. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I saw you behind the dairy queen with a peanut
buster parfe in one hand and a cock in the other.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
No, a peanut buster perfe. This is adding up a
peanut buster perfe. And I do terrible memory, So I
don't know. Uh. I haven't seen anything with Andrew Kaji.
(40:10):
I'm looking looking. I've seen Fast and Furious six, but
he plays like an uncredited police officer, so I don't
think that's that's something I would remember. But uh, all
the other stuff I haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah, I don't know who that is. But you know,
I'll say this, I don't want any more people from
the original series the show.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, you're like, yeah, I don't need more versions of
characters to constantly question.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I just I whatever, it doesn't matter, I hear you. Oh,
still continues. Yes, Yes, we've all seen Castaway and the Martian.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
No, she's landed on the Dark World from for the
Dark World, the movie where Thor goes to the Dark World.
I feel like stew watches Futurama. Yes, yes, we've all
seen Enemy Mine, the Gorns, female typical woke Trek. So
(41:24):
this episode was decent overall, bordering on good, if not
for using a pretty common plot that Sci fi and
even Trek has done before. A good bit, but we
might as well use it to get the Ortega's trauma
dealing issue out of the way. Also, the tragedy of
the laanding party shooting the Gordon could lead to some
interesting stuff with Lawn's feelings about the matter and how
(41:46):
it affects her and Ortegas's relationship. But then the episode
just has to slap us in the face with the
member Bari of the metron Appearian appearing, making the episode
a prequel to the Arena totally unnecessary, especially since Ortega's
isn't allowed to remember it, which makes the whole thing
a bit of fancer, a total bit of fan in service. Also,
(42:09):
it needs to be said that the title of this
episode is just the plant version of a menagerie. I
also have to say that I don't really hate the
character of Ortegas or anything, but I don't care enough
about her to spend this much time with her talking
so goddamn much to both herself and someone who can't
really communicate. Back in as Verbosa way, also, did the
(42:32):
metron choose to appear bald because they thought it was
the ultimate form of Ortegas's haircut. Yeah, the metron did
not look this way in the original They were also
wearing like a flowy gown, but they had like the
golden ringlets like angel locks or something.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Well, as you know that this one just could have
could be bold.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I don't know. Yeah, they just took the form.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Yeah, this episode, when I kept seeing the like flashing
light in the air, I kept thinking it's the red angel.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Oh god, which I don't remember there being a flashing light.
And for the metrons in the original series either, right,
sort of a kaleidoscope rainbow effect.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, I'm looking at it, and I do vaguely remember
seeing them in that episode. That is that else you
had to say, that's it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
That's it for STU.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Still appreciate your feedback, but uh, and like like Andre
and stew I liked this episode. Uh, I really do.
They're just yeah, it's just that you.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Agree with me that it was bad as well.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
No, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I certainly felt like it.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
I don't, I know, I know, and I feel bad
about that, Like I just find myself analyzing more than enjoying,
and like on the podcast, being too too analytical and
being too like, uh, they're just like there's just something
in my craw you know what I mean. I don't know,
I need to like figure out how to like get
past that, because I really appreciate what Stu said, where
(44:09):
he's like, here's it, here's the funny issues. There's like
some funny silly things, but you know what, overall bordering
on good episode. And I think I agree with him,
Like I I think it's a bordering on good episode.
It's a fine, bordering on good episode. But like, uh,
it's yeah, it just has these small issues that like
(44:30):
bother me. And it's it's the same thing like like
in the last episode where an issue will bother me,
but it's a global thing that affects every scene and
and and in this in this particular one, it was
that they they have this time issue between the ship
and the and the thing, and and I just like
every time it would cut to anything, I'm just like, really,
you guys have like learned to play each other's games,
(44:53):
and it's like day one and you're beating each other
at the game. That's the kind of thing you do
in a movie that's about living on the same planet
from months, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, And I think it would have been a much
stronger episode if she had been stranded for months, and.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Like see her like grow as a character, really like
and not just sort of.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
And I think she did.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
I will say I do think she grew as a character,
but like when it happens over the course of two days,
like this seemed like it was it was alluding to,
it doesn't feel like that growth is as extreme. Like
I could have seen her like really you know, come
out come out of the thing, like dirty and battle
damaged and like having really like gone through it. And
(45:33):
instead of she's like, oh, she's kind of smelly. She
had a couple of days out a show, she missed
a couple of showers.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, yeap.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
That that's so so as much as I and I
said at the beginning, I really like that the enemy
mind part of this story as much as I do
the other part makes me feel like constantly question it
and like removes my uh suspension of disbelief and and
and I don't like doing that as a pie caster.
I gotta I gotta figure out to keep my disbelief
(46:03):
intact to enjoy what is good about the thing, or
it's like hard to hard to be a good podcaster.
I just feel like I'm I'm I don't think that's complaining.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Like I feel like I've I get it. People get
upset when you don't like a thing when you're a podcast.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Oh, it's not about people being upset, It's but my
own enjoyment of the thing. I don't like podcasts where
people just complain about a thing, and I don't think
we do that here. I really don't. But this season
has been particularly like huh we it's it's like there's
just a lot to complain about the season, and I
don't know where my brain is with that. I don't
(46:42):
know why, And it's the show partially, but partially I
just can't seem to like enjoy what's fun about it
and like let the let the littler annoying things be
annoying and let them go.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
You know, yeah, I can let little things go, but
when there are too many little things, I noticed all
the little things, right, yeah, yep. But again, I'm not
like I think there's a difference, like if there's like
if we came on here like, well, well, Waltsa Garhan
(47:14):
won't track, you know, if we're not those guys. But
at the same time, you know, I am. I'm very
happy for anybody who enjoyed the hell out of this episode,
even last week's episode, the worst episode of Star Trek
that ever existed.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
If you loved it, I'm happy for you.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I'm so happy for you. I couldn't get there and bye.
By comparison, I do think this was This is a
fucking this is like Academy Award winning by for sure.
But I still think it's like way below par for
even for Strange New Worlds overall, which this whole season
(47:52):
has been in a lot of ways. A few episodes
are really good. I did like the Traline episode. I
didn't mind the Trillion episode, right, Yeah, I did enjoy
that one, so good. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah, there's been a number for me. It's been like
a fifty to fifty hit rate, and so I can't
say it's terrible. I just and I'm really hopeful if
these last two are great, it'll really be like a
six to four, you know, instead of like because I'm
hoping soul, these last two will will bring it around
for me.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, so I you know, I don't think I don't
think we're bordering on bad. Uh, just a podcast that
hates on things. Yeah, it's a well, like I said,
I do. I never want to be the podcast that
just pretends to like something like that's not what I'm
talking about because the audience doesn't like it when you
don't like it, you know, I just I just think that,
(48:40):
Like to me, I don't like making hate podcast. I
make things because I make podcasts because I love the thing.
And so when I when I'm doing a podcast because
I love the thing and I'm just constantly like bashing it,
it doesn't it feels like that's.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Not what I'm doing, right, But it is what I'm doing.
I'm here because I fucking love Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I see. You know what, I get aggravated with more
than more than anything. I get aggravated when we get
like email or whatever from somebody or a comment on
YouTube or something where people are like, oh, like what,
you just hate every episode of this? Why are you
doing this? And I'm like, uh, you're not listening to
every episode because we had this episode in this episode,
(49:21):
like there there's clearly signs that we haven't really enjoyed
certain episodes of all of these things, right sure, Like
Discovery was the last time we actually got a comment
about that. I think we've run off everyone else already.
I'm but like, you know, it drives me. That's like
you go into like something like TV time and like
all the comments are like this was the most amazing
(49:43):
episode ever, like every like every episode is the most
amazing episode that's ever happened. Yeah, and I'm like, this
is a terrible community for me.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Well, and that's you know, and that's the thing about
being a podcaster is you are here kind of through
the thick and thin of it, and like we love
Star Trek, we're here to enjoy it. And even in
our regular lives, like when we've we either love a thing,
like you know, I will say last week's episode, no,
(50:13):
never mind, I don't know. That's trying to say it
might have still been better than Section thirty one.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Maybe I said episode not movie. Yeah, And I know,
I'm just Section thirty one might be the worst Star
Trek thing this ever.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
That's what I'm saying. I think, I think, and that's
pretty bad like that this year we've had two of
the worst Star Trek things ever, and it's really really
disappointing me.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
I don't know. Yeah, I wish there was an objective
way to like put them back without having to watch
them again.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
I darenalyze the problem. I would, I would analyze this further,
but I'm not gonna watch those two things again.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Let's stack up section thirty one next to four and
a half vulcans.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
Yep, that's pretty rough, pretty bad, pretty bad?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
All right?
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Anyway, Well we're to get out of here. Uh, we'll
be back two more weeks. We guess changed New Worlds
for two more weeks. I'm really excited more weeks.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
This was episode nine, wasn't it? This was eight? Was it?
Speaker 2 (51:08):
It was it nine?
Speaker 1 (51:09):
This is nine? You've got one more episode?
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Crap? I really thought this was eight? Well one more
episode then, damn.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I'm excited for a break from this, which is really
sad to say, because I'm just in a dark place
with it, because they've put me in a dark place
with it.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
You're like Dewey Cox over here.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I mean, damn, this is a dark period. But I'm
really hopeful that the finale will be a banger. I
really want to banger, no clue what it's about.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Uh, but yeah, that Stu brought up a good point.
I guess it was Stu. It may have been Stu,
I don't remember. Now it was Andre, Oh yeah, it
was Andre. It was Andre. So Andre brought up a
good point and I had not. I was like, oh,
I wonder what the last episode is going to be
this season, and then he reminded me of what the
(52:10):
last episode is probably going to be this season. I
was like, ah, shit, what it's good.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Of Gorn coming out and the computer virus thing.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
It could either go a really interesting way or it
could really go like a boring way that I don't know.
I don't know how I feel about it, because I
really want to know what the Vesta pa are. I
want to know if they have anything to do with
the Paw Wraith. I want to know all these things.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
He Had's so funny, like we both want cool connections
to pass stuff, and then when cool connect when when
connections happened to past stuff? We're kind of like that
seemed forced, So like, I don't know if I want
to know. Oh yeah, if the Vesta payn to do
with the pie Wraith. But I do like both of
those stories, the Vesta Pa and the Gorn Baby. I'm
(52:58):
into it, and they have that connection where they're wanting
to fight each other, so like, I'm into that as
a finale if that's where they're going.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
Yeah, it's not that I necessarily want it. I'm just like, look,
these things look like the paw rais you named it
Vesta Pa. Like you're clearly trying to evoke something that
would make fans. You're you're throwing out dog whistles here.
Yeah for sure. Now, if you fuck it up, we're
gonna be mad. Right, if you, you know, really make
(53:29):
it a stupid connection that's gonna suck.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
You know there it's gonna and a lot of Star
Trek nowadays feels like fan wink yeah, because I think
it is.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Yeah, and I don't. It's like, I definitely don't mind
fan service. I don't at all, But like, yeah, you
gotta have the meat there too, and you gotta push
the story forward. You gotta have me be a fan
of the thing we're doing right now so that in
the future there's something else to wank about, Right, I
need more things to wank about? Is really what I'm
getting at Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, I mean, don't we all don't we all gotta
becoming vinive? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (54:11):
You know, things get more and more specific as you
get older.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, Joel.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Livelog and Prosper.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe Podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or Malagus dot tv for his web videos. If
you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out
the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.
(54:52):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, we were talking
about Strange New Worlds three oh nine Terrarium right after
these words from our mystery sponsors.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Stop making faces.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Welcome to Star Trek Universe podcast. Were you listening on
two lifelong friends sit and chat about Star Trek. My
name's Matthew Carroll.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm David c. Robertson.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
What's up, Dave? How you doing, buddy?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Oh? You know, just tired? Just yeah, I'm ready for
this show to be done. For the Strange New Worldshuh,
I hear that. I hear that.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know. I guess we can jump right into Terrarium.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Oh yeah, can.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
I assumed you would hate this episode from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
I hadn't yet realized it was in of me Mine.
I thought it was going to be a Just or
Tega's castaway episode, or or more likely, I just watched
The Martian recently and that movie is just great. Uh
and uh, I wish you built the little water processor.
I was like, Oh, it's going to be The Martian,
like they're doing the Martian episode, and then she met
(01:19):
the Gorner and I was like, Oh, it's gonna be
enemy Mine, which Star Trek has done before. Yes, I
vaguely remember that they did. What was it a Kardassian
or Jim Haddar in one or was it a Kardassian
in Next Generation or something? Where was that?
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I was remembering a Roemulin and Jordi but that might
be wrong.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but but this
this plot has existed before in various media, but started
off for sure. I I didn't hate the episode. What
I was gonna say is I knew you'd hate this
episode because it was it or Taga takes focused Like
I really it was just like, oh man, she's gonna
be making snarky comments by herself on a planet for
(02:05):
an hour.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, and that was That's exactly what they did. Like,
as the fucking shuttle is crashing, she is like yelling
out this stupid thing going break snacks, I'm like, shut
the fuck up.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Ye iknew hate brings spoks to die. Yeah, okay, yeah,
none of that bothered me. I don't have the same
aversion to Ortegas that you do. This episode is somewhat
uninspired obviously. As we said, this plot has been done before.
(02:40):
It was a little interesting that they tied it into
this other race of beings that I don't know, but
you said the is it the Metatron? The Metrons? The Metrons?
Where are they from?
Speaker 1 (02:50):
In Star Trek the original series, the specifically the episode
Arena who with a Gorn? With the Gorn?
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Yeah, oh okay, yeah, I didn't remember that.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
There's no fucking reason to bring the Gorn, to bring
the Arena the Metrons into this, Like, there was no
reason for that. That was just once again rehashing. Just
I hate it so much, I agree, I.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Mean, especially when we just did this like trelaane Q episode,
Like it feels like the same sort of a plot
device where you end the episode of being like it
was all of you know, high jinks from a higher being.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, and you know, in the original series, it was
a situation of like, the Gorn killed a bunch of
people on Cestus three, Kirk followed them bloodthirstily into whoops
accidentally Metrons space, and the Metrons were like no, fuck you,
(03:51):
and the corn Captain and Kirk down to the planet
and let them duke it out. And then when Kirk
refused to kill him, he was like, oh, okay, you're
only half savages like I thought you guys were savages.
But since now you know, now, I'm kind of like
you knew that though Ortegas became friends with the Gorn,
(04:12):
that now that you.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah, But then then they they still killed the gor
the other That's what I think. That's why they they
they included that makes me. That makes me sadder because like, actually,
the one thing I liked about this episode as much
as I hated it in the moment, I liked it
they killed the Gornu because it really gave the episode
(04:35):
weight to me. Like I got sad. I cried when
the Gordon died. I was like, I like literally yelled out,
like what the hell, because I was just like, you've
you've come past your hatred, You've done all these things,
and then they let the Gordon die, And I just
thought that was a really bold decision and it made
the whole episode have more weight. It gives it stakes
in a way that like I didn't expect it to have.
I really thought they were we were gonna have a
(04:56):
new Gordon friend who was gonna like be a piece
envoy to the Gorn or something like that, you know,
or or a Gorn and starfleet like like like whatever,
like some sort of gorn to be an ally uh
and then staid they killed him and it was a
harsh thing to see, uh and and like really hard
(05:16):
and I yelled out and I got sad, and like
that's cool and and and the lingering effects that she's
gonna have the problems with the like la on for
that reason, Like, I think that's all really good, but
hearing that part of the reason is because they they
basically needed it not to be fully resolved. They needed
it not to end well, they needed it to end
bad to align with Cannon. Like that makes me less
(05:37):
less proud of the episode for going there.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah. Yeah, they didn't need to have the metrons. It
didn't have to be the metrons. It could have agreed
anything else.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
It could have just been them interacting on a planet. Yeah,
Like they could have just done enemy Mine and it
could have still ended this way. The metron was just
to throw it. This would not have bothered me. I
love these kinds of like connections to previous episodes normally,
but they've seemed like they're just doing it all the
time this season.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yeah, they absolutely are. And it's like to the point
where it's like undermining the original stories.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Now, Yes, we have talked with this before. I think
that when you use something from cannon and you don't
put a new brick in the wall, mm hmm, you
are using that piece of cannon up we talked about
with the Borg. That's that's my theory on why the
Borg stopped working in Voyagers, Like they weren't adding to
they were just using the fear that we had all
(06:35):
been instilled from TNNG and they were just sort of like, hey, hey,
it's Borg again. And and every time you use them,
you're watering them down, you make them less of a
threat unless they you know, you have to add to them,
you have to grow them, you have to change them.
And so this season has been a lot of just like, hey,
we're pointing out this thing is showing up again. That's
from an old episode of original series, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yeah, and they actively made it like the original serious
episode doesn't make sense. Why Well, because the Metrons were
surprised that Kirk didn't wasn't gonna kill the Gorn. But
they've literally already seen Ortega's not kill the Gorn and
(07:20):
be like we are friends now.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, yes, but if they're looking at like species on
species violence, the humans still killed the Gorn, you know
what I mean. And I understand that they should have,
uh at least seen that they weren't half savages, or
they were they were only half savages as it were,
but who knows, you know, the Gordon still died.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Yeah. If there's such great godlike, godlike beings, they shouldn't
understand nu ones.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Maybe. By the way, I don't understand why these fuckers
didn't come down here with their facers on stun instead
of kill.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
Yeah, agreed. I mean, it's it's Lawn. She's pretty uh
you know, true, you're happy, and I could see her
like just she sees a gorn, she spends that thing
to kill and hits the It's it made sense to
me that she would try to kill a Gorn in
that moment.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
But it was like multiple people firing at once. It
wasn't just Lawn. Oh really, I thought it was multiple people.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I I guess I wasn't paying us close attention. But yeah,
she's the one that it fell to. She's leading the
party or whatever. I really like enemy mine. I really
like the concept of putting two enemies on a planet
and having them have to learn to coexist. It's a
beautiful story so appeals to my sensibilities and my own morals,
(08:38):
Like I believe in that. I believe people that are
enemies just need to need interaction to come together. You know,
to some degree, there's obviously limits to that, but I
do believe in this ideal, and so seeing seeing that
happen was great. I did not need the Ahora supplot.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
No.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
Well, again, this has been my This has been my
story on a bunch of the episodes recently where it's
like I really like this story, but if it had
more time, Like I felt like the Gorn thing was
a little rushed like it also it felt like it
should have taken longer. And it almost does feel like
(09:22):
the stuff on the planet feels like they've been there
for weeks because they've learned to trust each other and
all this stuff that's that seems like it should have
taken weeks. But we know that on the ship there's
this ticking clock, you know what I mean, and it's
like they can't they can't stay there long. So we
know it's only been a couple of days, and it
just feels the stuff on the ship made this. I
(09:43):
had this complaint like literally last episode where we were
talking about like the ship not making sense because they
have they have this they shout to have this full ship,
but they still let it look empty, you know, stuff
like that, where like one plot line it should inform another,
but it doesn't. And so to me, it would have
been more since if they had left, you know, like
they're like, we we have to leave, we can't stay here,
(10:05):
and like pursue her and then she sees them come
back or something, and then that's when she hits the flare,
you know, right.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Or you know, something else they might have done on
the original series or another Star Trek is like the
captain goes like I'm going to do everything I can
to get our man back and then telling off, you know,
like the admiral or whoever who's like hollering for supplies
like we'll be there soon, you know. Yeah, felt like
I didn't need Uhura to like fudge the numbers and
(10:36):
take a notch out of her credibility. Borderline seemed like
at times that her hero was like trying to convince
Pike to find Erica, like tearfully, and.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I'm like, why, well I don't, Yeah, I mean, she
was I should have she should she does she should
trust Pike that he's going to do everything you can,
because she hasn't had any reason not to think that.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
And he even said at the end he was going
to go into anyway.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, and they were going with this like idea at
the end when when he when you find out he
knew she fubb fudged the numbers, Yeah, it's like, oh, well,
it's okay. Sometimes it's good to break the rules, if
if for the right reasons. And and and that's a
lesson that a captain often has to learn against an admiral.
They don't trust stuff like that, you know. In this case,
(11:28):
I don't think that he is a character that has
earned any mistrust from Ohurra. And she's putting a whole
ship at risk. It's it's it's just not a good call.
And it wasn't her call. And this is a thing
that I'm constantly I've rigged on many times. When someone
(11:48):
does a bad thing like that, they should have consequences.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
M hm.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
They like she should lose rank, or she should go
to the brig for a while, like something should happened
to her, Like I understand she did it for the
right reasons, but like the thing about an organization like
this is you have to follow a protocol and you
break the rules. Honestly, any in our society if you
break the rules even for the right reason. Now we
(12:13):
have things like pardons to pardon people if they've done
things for the right reason or whatever. But like, if
you've done if you believe in something strong enough to
break the law to solve it, you should be accepting
the consequences to some degree, and so like I don't
know what the consequences should have been, like even just
(12:35):
anger from Pike, you know what I mean, Like why
didn't you trust me? Like like like like a like
a harder conversation than just like there you go lying
to me about the science. Like that's not that's not
what he needs from his crew. And it's really disturbing
to not put any guardrails or consequences around those kinds
(12:56):
of actions.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Yeah, I think in classic Star Trek what they have
generally done, it feels like, is in such a situation
where the captain is in a bind and someone has
to fudge a number or something, they're gonna be like, yeah,
I know you fudge the numbers. You know you can.
You're confined to quarters until further notice, and then the
(13:21):
person will smile and he's they're like in good work
or something. You know, it's like, yeah, you're being punished,
but you're really getting just you're.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Just it's exactly what I would have done, but I
still have to punish you. I still have to be
a captain. And I always feel that way on these
shows where like people do things that are and a
lot of times it's like things with high stakes, you know,
police or whatever, like on other shows where they're like
police or like breaking the law and it's like they're
doing it for the right reason and you get why
they're doing it, but like there's a commanding officer finds
(13:51):
out and they're just like, yeah, you know, you did
it for the right reason. So I'm not gonna pursue
any no like that. That's still wrong. It's still you
still gotta you are now breaking the law or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
I don't know, yeah, uh so, I you know, I don't.
The reason I heart back on Old Star Trek and
what they would have done is because this is in
the same universe supposedly, So that's kind of always what
I'm looking for, is are those kind of solutions and
those kind of uh punishments like for things like this,
(14:24):
and I just I don't know. Yeah, it's like they don't.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Pike is a little loose with his crew, and I
mean that is a different kind of captain. You know,
I'm not going to cook dinner for you tomorrow night. Yeah,
but I'll see you on Sunday or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
You can still come, but you can't eat. You can
have appetizers, yeah man. So yeah, it's I didn't hate
this episode.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
I really didn't. I feel like I have to say
that every week because we always have some may complaints
right now, I don't like, I'm trying to really just
enjoy these episodes for what they are. And I really did,
like I had a good time. I uh, I got
like I said, I cried when the Gordon was shot
or tag its doesn't really bother me. So like I
enjoyed the enemy mind stuff, but I was just it's
(15:19):
just I constantly count like being like this should be
taking longer than we know it is because of the ship. Yeah,
and I had hard times suspend. I'm having a hard
times suspending disbelief when things are like just obviously don't
add up.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, let me clarify something though, like it's not that
I hate uh Melissa to via sure, I'm sure I
would like the character if they didn't write her the
way they do, right, which is like every line has
to be snark, yeah, some kind of stupid joke, and
they're like, even as she's walking along, she's going, you know,
(15:55):
take the shot all they said, it'll be fine. They
said that is such a cliche line. I hate here
that in any show.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Well, it's it's directly out of die Hard, Like that's
a die Hard line that they're like repurposing, which I
thought was funny because this isn't a this isn't a
die Hard scene or like like reducts or whatever.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
But like so many shows say this, they do this
bit over and over again, like oh uh, safety's my
middle name? Wait, you said you're there was danger was
your middle name? Yeah, it's a fucking stupid exchange. Yeah,
it's so bad. By the way, at the beginning, when
when she mentions like the ghost stories of shit something
(16:35):
like Division twelve would look into like that was just
like a throwaway line that was also like like I'm
like that. I feel like it was a pitch like, ooh,
what's Division twelve looking for ghosts and outer space? What
the fuck?
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Oh isn't is that that's not a thing from a
previous trek. That was just a throat that I love. Okay, Yeah,
I just assumed it was something we may have heard
from heard of before.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah, no, as far as I know, Like, and maybe
I'm wrong, maybe I just forgot, but Division twelve, Oh,
it seems something Division twelve would look look into. Like
it feels like a backdoor pilot line. Yeah, it's like
any set up for a pitch or something.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
That wasn't like the one where.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, looking it up online, all I'm seeing is this episode.
So yeah, you must be right. I really, I really
just assumed it was something I didn't remember. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I did laugh because they were supposed to meet up
with the Constellation and Captain Decker, but then the Metrons
came into it and I was like, oh, now you're
pulling even more from the original stuff. Okay.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Yeah, and Decker being the guy from the most picture.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Well that's his son.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Oh Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
The Constellation was borderline destroyed by the planet eating Doomsday
Machine from the episode The Doomsday Machine and by that point,
Captain Decker was Commodore Decker, and that's the guy that's
like he was overacting a lot because he thought it
was a kid's show. But it kind of just like
really plays really well when you watch episode because he's
(18:14):
watched most of his crew die and he's gone insane.
Oh yeah, and he's like he's seen this planet killer
that's so much bigger than the ship, you know, and
he's just like Jim they say, and there's no devil,
but I've seen him right out of the gates of hell.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
It's great. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Oh man. I got a text from a friend this
week and they were like, Matt, are you watching Strange
any Worlds? And I was like, I am seen it all.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
They're like, I am obsessed with it. They had just
found it and been watching it. I guess season one. Uh,
And it just it just makes me feel bad because
I love, I want to love this show so much
and they just do you know. It's it's very similar
to how we felt with Discovery, like they'll just be
like these glaring problems with an episode and I just
(19:08):
I don't know, I feel like I I'm in a
bad place because I'm I'm I've often talked about there's
a certain amount of disbelief you can suspend, and then
once you you're not doing that anymore. M hm, You're
not along for the ride anymore somehow, and then you
just end up over analyzing things. And I think I'm
in that place with this show, yeah, where I watched
(19:31):
an episode and instead of just like, this is how
the episode happened, let's talk about it, I just feel like, well,
they should have done this, you know, like they should
have had this and they should have included this plot.
And instead of like I feel like I'm not along
for the ride right now, which is not a good
place to be, I'm trying to like we had a
few good episodes this this, And there's the thing like
a lot of times it's just like as long as
(19:51):
the episode doesn't have like a glaring almost like cannon
break issue, then I'm then I don't. I don't think
I that way. I think it's just like these sorts
of big structural issues of episodes where it just like
bothers me the whole time. So it makes every interaction
with the Gorn feels rushed because it feels like this
(20:12):
is happening over two days, and every time they cut
back to the ship, I'm like, this episode would be
more effective if I never saw the ship again, Like
I would just feel longe, it would feel like enemy mine,
you know. Yeah, and so so yeah, I hate being
that way. I really do. As a fan, I do
not like feeling this way. And so I guess I'm
right there with you. I guess I'm ready for the series,
(20:33):
the season to end. Maybe after a little break from it,
I'll feel better next season.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, I mean they're they're just digging themselves, like they like. Okay,
so there's this bit where the Metron says and maybe
someday we can reset your perception of the Gorn as well, Yeah,
which seems to be an indication that like, oh, we're
pointing out the fact that the Gorn looked different in
the original series. Okay, but did you retroactively do that
(21:00):
because Captain Lorca had an original series Gorn skeleton in
his room in the Discovery.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Right, Yeah, the whole uh Gorn looked different. Like, there's
a lot of ways you can take that, But yeah,
that line does not solve the problem.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
It doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
No, And you could easily say, just like the Gorn,
the Gorn have different like different subspecies of the Gorn,
you know or whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Like you subcops, Like I could look at Chris Farley
and then look at Tommy Davidson and go like, those
aren't the same species. Well, sure they are. They're just
they just look different, right, sure, Like we all like
I'm I, I have a much bigger frame than my
brother in law Spencer, for instance, right, right, like an
(21:48):
alien species might go, well, that doesn't look look the
same species. They're kind of similar, yeah, and a lot
of similarities, right, And even just.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Looking at the original series Gorn, obviously it's a guy
in a suit as opposed to this big CGI guy
or whatever with a lot bigger frame. But like they're
still they still look basically the same, Like they have
the basic same head shape. They just have like a
big hunch on their back whereld make them look more
lizard like, make them look less human.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I also have a big hunch on my back
that makes me look less human.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
It's the computer hunch.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Yeah, we're all getting that now, that nerd neck they say, yeah, yeah,
just looking at the original series directly next to this
episode's gore, and I'm like, I see they're going for
the same thing. It's just better technology and better you
know whatever, They're going for the same like basic design
of an animal. R Like, Yeah, it just doesn't really
(22:46):
bother me. And so I wish they just wouldn't acknowledge
it or like wouldn't worry about it so much.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah, I think it's weird that they're bringing it up,
or I don't know what was so wrong about the
original look. I mean, just do it better, don't You
don't have to redesign it completely and make them look
like like I've said, the Gordon specifically from this season.
I don't remember feeling that way last year, but the
(23:13):
Gordons specifically from the season have looked like those damn
creatures from the Dark Crystal or like they're like real
big and hunched over.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, that's the biggest difference, is like the body shape
that the heads just look like they're a better version
of what they did back then. I think like they
look more like a lizard's head, but they're the basic same,
Like the the eye sockets are the similar shape, and
the jaws is similar, like they went for a similar thing.
But uh, it's just they really redesigned the body, which
(23:44):
I get because that original Gorn is just like literally
just a guy in a suit.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
You know.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I think I like what they've done.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I really do.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
I like the updated Gorn, unlike you know, like the Klingons,
where I just was annoyed by the inconsistencies. The Gorn
is just such a sort of footnote like with this
one episode. I'm fine with them sort of updating the
look and the design. But yeah, yeah, I don't know, man,
I don't know. Uh, I'm glad this episode hit me
(24:16):
in the feels. That's all I can That's that's the
positive thing I can say. And I was not bothered
by Ortegez's jokes. Really, those don't really bother me. Like
I sometimes I think they're dumb, but sometimes, you know,
yeah whatever, Sometimes shows are too joking, and she is
a jokey character. I prefer a show of a jokey
(24:37):
character then the overall tone be joking all the time,
which I think at least there's that, at least she is.
She's the one character that sort of like there are
other characters that do that. From time to time, but
she's the one that's like really guilty of it.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
It just seems like a personality quirk. I guess they've
really started doing I mean, well Polia is like that too,
but very different. It's very different. But it's just like
every line has gotta be some kind of silly bullshit.
But I did like at a certain point, like when
she the way she reacted with them killing the Gorn
was great. Yeah, her screaming at the metrons that she
(25:14):
knows she's being watched, all that was good. Like the
serious moments with the Gorn were good. The serious like
where she pretends to eat the chest piece, the chest
piece at the end next to the that made me
tear up a little.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Yeah too.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
But you know, I was confused by other things in
the episode, like initially when the Gordon throws her the
raw meat, she eats it. And then later on the
Gordon throws her some food and she like pulls out
the flame and she's like, I know you don't like
the fire, but I had to cook it. You didn't
cook the other thing, the raw thing. You just started
eating this raw bug. Yeah, well you can eat raw meat.
(25:52):
It's just she was very emphatic, I'm human, I have
to cook my food. Right.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Well, I think the first time she just went for
where she was starving. The second time she was like,
I really need to cook stuff. That was disgusting.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, I also didn't feel like I didn't feel like
she was there long enough to be starving.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Right.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
That's the thing is like.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
You have water, water will sustain you for like thirty
days without any food, like and not that she needs
to do that. She needs like food is good because
it will give her the energy to get her off
the planet. But like this this episode, I'm just revisiting
my same for fucking complaint. But this episode is trying
(26:34):
to feel like she's down there for two months. But
then they decided to put the ship on a like
two day clock, and that is just the same dumb
stuff they do from time to time, where like the
B plot fucks up the A plot and yeah, it's
just dumb.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
I've gone two days not eating, just an ADHD hyperfocus.
Yeah yeah, sorry, I you know. Now, did they show
her building shit a few episodes ago just to make
it believable that she could create a universal translator?
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I don't remember her building shit, but oh, in.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
The documentary episode, she was building that motorcycle in her quarters.
And then in this episode when they're panning over to
see her like doing the fit check, staring in the
mirror and smiling like a idiot, like, they showed the
motorcycle and all the building stuff. Again.
Speaker 3 (27:28):
Oh no, I didn't see that, but it makes sense
if she's a pilot, that she might have a history
of like racing or motorcycles or whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Yeah, I just don't remember them ever bringing that up
before this season.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Yeah, me neither, but I don't remember it. It could
be something that was there. And yeah, I also just
thought like they had her do all that stuff, and
that's why I thought it was gonna be The Martian.
When I saw the episode, I was like, Oh, they're
gonna kind of parody The Martian here because she's like
building her little world and trying to survive. I was like, Oh,
that's cool. I love The Martian. This will be a
(28:00):
cool little call out. And then her stuff that she
did didn't end up mattering Yeah, no, it didn't. Like
and then they towards the end her like interfacing with
the technology of the Gorn and fixing it so it
would contact the ship and the explosion, like all that
felt a lot more earned to the Ortegis character. I think, yeah, yeah,
(28:23):
the stuff she did at the beginning where she's like,
I created a water condenser in thirty seconds by tearing
apart my shuttle, like that just felt like it wasn't
I don't know, it wasn't something we've ever known of
her in the past, And it just felt like it
was a weird. It was it felt weird.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
And then and then all of that got sucked into
like a sinkhole or whatever.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
So it wasn't like she needed that to survive because
then she finds the Gorn. And also did the Gorn
have a water condenser because it never shows her drink
water past that, I don't think, so did she do
it again with Gorn tech tech?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah, it was weird. She just drinks piss out of
those worm things. I don't know, I don't know what
it is gross. Maybe those worm things are like part cactus.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
I will say the episode, like the structure of the
episode on the planet, the plot on the planet with
her with like the ticking clock of the planet going
towards that gas giant or whatever, and it's gonna get
too close and it's gonna make it poisonous and then
using that as the flair and everything. That was fun.
(29:31):
That was cool writing. I liked it a lot. It
was really cool.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Yeah, I've cleaned it.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Okay, Yeah, nothing nothing, I guess to nothing groundbreaking, but
you know.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah, no. I I even told my wife. I was like, Oh,
she's gonna they're gonna find a way to ignite the
gas to make it to use it as like a flare,
Like that's what they're gonna do.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Interesting here.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
I'm not even complaining about this. I just didn't understand it.
And maybe you maybe you know what the hell they're
talking about. There's a point where Pike is at the
con next to Una and he says, other than Ortega's,
I'm the best pilot in the on the ship, and
she goes, never heard that one before, sir, And he
(30:22):
just like throws up his hands like what. I don't
understand that exchange, Like what was what were they talking about?
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Oh, he was just talking about how he's the best
pilote other than Artigas. And then she's like, oh bringing
that up again, are we Pike? Oh you're always talking
about how you're the best pilot?
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Does he do that? Not that we've ever seen that.
I mean, I think there was some reference to him
being a pilot at some point. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
it just seemed like there was something like I just
didn't get the joke.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
Maybe it was just her giving him crap for being
proud of his piloting.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yeah. It also seemed like the way they said she
said it that like they've heard that from other people
before and it wasn't true, you know, I was it
just I just wasn't sure how to take it. I
just didn't know what they I don't know.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
That's how I took it.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I don't know. All right, all right, I'll take it.
I'll take it. My last bit was like, so Pike
was like, okay, scan as many moons as you can,
starting with the nearest one first, and then when we
see the flare, I'll be damned if it wasn't the
nearest one.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
Oh, I didn't see, And I guess I also assume that, like.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Maybe they magnified it.
Speaker 3 (31:46):
Yeah, they might have magnified it, or or they might
have moved or whatever, as soon as they like when
they see the flare. Yeah, we've definitely seen them many times.
Be like, zoom in on that moon and then they
zoom in and it's like, you know, nothing has changed,
but the screen is showing something much closer.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So I assume that's what that was.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, Oh, we've got some feedback if you'd like to
talk about that, Yes, I would. I would like. First off,
I got Andre Sparks.
Speaker 3 (32:14):
Andre.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Uh, hey, guys, so I knew there was no way
I was talking you two into liking the last episode.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
I love that. He's like, but I'm not even I'm
not even trying. I'm not even trying that week.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
But I will say I like the end credit scene
with Spock in the full Vulcan. That would be the
uh Paton Oswald.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Oh oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
As for this week, the Lost in Space episode was
a little long, but the relationship definitely was told well.
The end with the flashing light actually being something or
someone surprised me. I thought she was going crazy.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Also, right after Pike sent the landing party down, I
was like, oh, snap, that's the wrong one to send.
You had a trigger finger ready for.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Sure, Like, I get it because they're friends, and she
was like, I am not gonna do it. I'm gonna
save my friend. But yeah, yeah, and she's a scree
gee for whatever, so it makes sense, but is a
bummer overall.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Still one of the better episodes this season. I don't
know how the season will end, though. My guest is
the ghost spyware on the Enterprise will be revealed with
the crew and mayhem will begin, or the Gorn baby
will finally pop out of Pike's girlfriend. I think both
of those things will happen.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah, the Vesta Pa coming back and uh yeah, either
that or that's gonna I mean, I guess I could
see them waiting on the Vesta Pa for a future
season or something. But it did feel like it was
like it was coming soon. So we got two episodes left,
so we got that, and it felt like this season
was setting up. When this season started and it was
(33:53):
the Gorn like where the Gorn War sort of thing
was going on. I really thought we were gonna be
facing like another Gorn threat before the season was over.
But I guess they did. They send them to sleep
for a long time. Yeah, yeah, so I guess I
guess that's probably not it. I really thought we were
gonna get another Gorn focused episode before the end of
(34:14):
the season, but we did maybe not it well this one,
but this was not the Gor the people, but the
one Gorn.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Well, you know, like in an overarching sense, it was
a pretty good structure because they dealt with the Gorn
as a whole and put them to sleep. But then
the same way doctor who did by killing all the
dolegs and then you have that great episode where the
Doctor has to face that one dollc you had Erica
who had the trauma from the Gorn, who had to
(34:45):
face that Gorn and come to an understanding with it.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I expect we'll see the Gorn, if
not this season again next season because or future seasons.
I think we're gonna have a different Orteiguez when they
come against the Gorn again.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
And I do like that they they really did try.
I agree with the with the mechanic thing not so much,
but they really did try to like sprinkle In and
her hatred of the Gorn for what happened to her
at the beginning of the season.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You know what I mean. Yeah, I suspect and I
hope maybe more than suspect, uh, that we're going to
start to see the crumbling of Ortega's friendships with the crew.
I felt like the way they sort of explained, they
(35:37):
sort of hinted at something going on in that future
episode that was kind of redoing balance of terror.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Hmm h.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
They didn't go deeply enough into it. It felt like
it was still looming.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Oh man, any of rewatched that episode.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Some breakdown between specifically Ortega's and Spock and Balkans, Yeah, yeah,
mm hmm. Or maybe they didn't that they don't intend
to do anything with it. She was just filling in
for the the racist guy on the original series episode.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Right right, totally.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I never know what these with these writers.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Thank you Andre that for sending that in. That's a
I I I appreciate that he's digging the season. Yeah,
like I said, Uh, my friend wrote me this week
loving Strange New World, and I was like I did too. No,
I'm in a dark, dark place. Well this season I've
liked probably you know, four or five of the episodes
(36:38):
like a lot, and then I've had just some sort
of glaring issue with a bunch of the other ones.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah. Uh once again, not even enemy mine here, but yeah,
this is this is fun, Stu Stu Little says, calls
this one. Eric got her arms wide, of course, saying
Darmock and season five opener of the Next Generation, Hi, guys,
(37:04):
and we're back after a sudden, unexplained hiatus where absolutely
no episode of Star Trek was aired last week. That
was weird. Huh, terrarium coming out your ass would have
been less racially specific seeming, Erica. I don't know what
he's talking about there.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
Oh, she had coming at your ears in the episode
was like, humhm, it's like it's a phrase.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Oh god, Yeah, that whole thing was dopey. Has there
ever been a fictional character whose middle name was literally danger?
Speaker 3 (37:40):
I think Austin Powers, right, yes, I think Austin Powers.
Austin Danger Powers absolutely good call man. Yeah, I feel
good about remembering that.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, it happened so rarely.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I know.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
My memory is so bad that when I'm the one
on a podcast to remember something, it really does like
film you with pride for the next number of days.
Just kidding.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, well, what if you could remember?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
That's true, That's true. Hey, it would impact me more
if I remember, if I didn't immediately forget what I
was proud of.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
A wormhole? What the frail? Any other Far Escape fans here?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
No? No, Unfortunately, I've never seen it.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
I have it, I never watched it.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Never watched it? Was that the one that was also Ruddenberry.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
No, it was on Sci Fi Channel and had Jim
Hinson muppets.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
When?
Speaker 3 (38:38):
It was like Kevin Sorbo, is that you're talking about Andromeda?
That's what I'm thinking of. I get those two confused.
But I've heard good things about Far Escape.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah. Yeah, I actually bought Andromeda and far Escape at
the same time on DVD from a thrift store like
two miles down the road, and they were both four
dollars each the complete series.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
Wow, that's great. It's crazy, but I never have watched him. Well, Stu,
should we watch Our Escape? Is is it worth? Is
it worth the squeeze?
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah? Man, let us know. Stu continues, Erica is gone.
Oh no, anyway, do you think Andrew Kogi would be
willing to sign on to play Sulu in Strange two worlds?
I don't know who that is. Who is Andrew Cogi?
I don't know ko j I, He says.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, pulling him up. Andrew Cogi. Yeah, still don't know
who he.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Is, pulling him up, tugging him off. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
No, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
I saw you behind the dairy queen with a peanut
buster parfe in one hand and a cock in the other.
Speaker 3 (39:49):
No, a peanut buster perfe. This is adding up a
peanut buster perfe. And I do terrible memory, So I
don't know. Uh. I haven't seen anything with Andrew Kaji.
(40:10):
I'm looking looking. I've seen Fast and Furious six, but
he plays like an uncredited police officer, so I don't
think that's that's something I would remember. But uh, all
the other stuff I haven't seen.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yeah, I don't know who that is. But you know,
I'll say this, I don't want any more people from
the original series the show.
Speaker 3 (40:29):
Yeah, you're like, yeah, I don't need more versions of
characters to constantly question.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
I just I whatever, it doesn't matter, I hear you. Oh,
still continues. Yes, Yes, we've all seen Castaway and the Martian.
Speaker 2 (40:55):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
No, she's landed on the Dark World from for the
Dark World, the movie where Thor goes to the Dark World.
I feel like stew watches Futurama. Yes, yes, we've all
seen Enemy Mine, the Gorns, female typical woke Trek. So
(41:24):
this episode was decent overall, bordering on good, if not
for using a pretty common plot that Sci fi and
even Trek has done before. A good bit, but we
might as well use it to get the Ortega's trauma
dealing issue out of the way. Also, the tragedy of
the laanding party shooting the Gordon could lead to some
interesting stuff with Lawn's feelings about the matter and how
(41:46):
it affects her and Ortegas's relationship. But then the episode
just has to slap us in the face with the
member Bari of the metron Appearian appearing, making the episode
a prequel to the Arena totally unnecessary, especially since Ortega's
isn't allowed to remember it, which makes the whole thing
a bit of fancer, a total bit of fan in service. Also,
(42:09):
it needs to be said that the title of this
episode is just the plant version of a menagerie. I
also have to say that I don't really hate the
character of Ortegas or anything, but I don't care enough
about her to spend this much time with her talking
so goddamn much to both herself and someone who can't
really communicate. Back in as Verbosa way, also, did the
(42:32):
metron choose to appear bald because they thought it was
the ultimate form of Ortegas's haircut. Yeah, the metron did
not look this way in the original They were also
wearing like a flowy gown, but they had like the
golden ringlets like angel locks or something.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Well, as you know that this one just could have
could be bold.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I don't know. Yeah, they just took the form.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Yeah, this episode, when I kept seeing the like flashing
light in the air, I kept thinking it's the red angel.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Oh god, which I don't remember there being a flashing light.
And for the metrons in the original series either, right,
sort of a kaleidoscope rainbow effect.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, I'm looking at it, and I do vaguely remember
seeing them in that episode. That is that else you
had to say, that's it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
That's it for STU.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Still appreciate your feedback, but uh, and like like Andre
and stew I liked this episode. Uh, I really do.
They're just yeah, it's just that you.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Agree with me that it was bad as well.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
No, I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
I certainly felt like it.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
I don't, I know, I know, and I feel bad
about that, Like I just find myself analyzing more than enjoying,
and like on the podcast, being too too analytical and
being too like, uh, they're just like there's just something
in my craw you know what I mean. I don't know,
I need to like figure out how to like get
past that, because I really appreciate what Stu said, where
(44:09):
he's like, here's it, here's the funny issues. There's like
some funny silly things, but you know what, overall bordering
on good episode. And I think I agree with him,
Like I I think it's a bordering on good episode.
It's a fine, bordering on good episode. But like, uh,
it's yeah, it just has these small issues that like
(44:30):
bother me. And it's it's the same thing like like
in the last episode where an issue will bother me,
but it's a global thing that affects every scene and
and and in this in this particular one, it was
that they they have this time issue between the ship
and the and the thing, and and I just like
every time it would cut to anything, I'm just like, really,
you guys have like learned to play each other's games,
(44:53):
and it's like day one and you're beating each other
at the game. That's the kind of thing you do
in a movie that's about living on the same planet
from months, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, And I think it would have been a much
stronger episode if she had been stranded for months, and.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Like see her like grow as a character, really like
and not just sort of.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
And I think she did.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
I will say I do think she grew as a character,
but like when it happens over the course of two days,
like this seemed like it was it was alluding to,
it doesn't feel like that growth is as extreme. Like
I could have seen her like really you know, come
out come out of the thing, like dirty and battle
damaged and like having really like gone through it. And
(45:33):
instead of she's like, oh, she's kind of smelly. She
had a couple of days out a show, she missed
a couple of showers.
Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, yeap.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
That that's so so as much as I and I
said at the beginning, I really like that the enemy
mind part of this story as much as I do
the other part makes me feel like constantly question it
and like removes my uh suspension of disbelief and and
and I don't like doing that as a pie caster.
I gotta I gotta figure out to keep my disbelief
(46:03):
intact to enjoy what is good about the thing, or
it's like hard to hard to be a good podcaster.
I just feel like I'm I'm I don't think that's complaining.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
Like I feel like I've I get it. People get
upset when you don't like a thing when you're a podcast.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
Oh, it's not about people being upset, It's but my
own enjoyment of the thing. I don't like podcasts where
people just complain about a thing, and I don't think
we do that here. I really don't. But this season
has been particularly like huh we it's it's like there's
just a lot to complain about the season, and I
don't know where my brain is with that. I don't
(46:42):
know why, And it's the show partially, but partially I
just can't seem to like enjoy what's fun about it
and like let the let the littler annoying things be
annoying and let them go.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
You know, yeah, I can let little things go, but
when there are too many little things, I noticed all
the little things, right, yeah, yep. But again, I'm not
like I think there's a difference, like if there's like
if we came on here like, well, well, Waltsa Garhan
(47:14):
won't track, you know, if we're not those guys. But
at the same time, you know, I am. I'm very
happy for anybody who enjoyed the hell out of this episode,
even last week's episode, the worst episode of Star Trek
that ever existed.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
If you loved it, I'm happy for you.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
I'm so happy for you. I couldn't get there and bye.
By comparison, I do think this was This is a
fucking this is like Academy Award winning by for sure.
But I still think it's like way below par for
even for Strange New Worlds overall, which this whole season
(47:52):
has been in a lot of ways. A few episodes
are really good. I did like the Traline episode. I
didn't mind the Trillion episode, right, Yeah, I did enjoy
that one, so good. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah, there's been a number for me. It's been like
a fifty to fifty hit rate, and so I can't
say it's terrible. I just and I'm really hopeful if
these last two are great, it'll really be like a
six to four, you know, instead of like because I'm
hoping soul, these last two will will bring it around
for me.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Yeah, so I you know, I don't think I don't
think we're bordering on bad. Uh, just a podcast that
hates on things. Yeah, it's a well, like I said,
I do. I never want to be the podcast that
just pretends to like something like that's not what I'm
talking about because the audience doesn't like it when you
don't like it, you know, I just I just think that,
(48:40):
Like to me, I don't like making hate podcast. I
make things because I make podcasts because I love the thing.
And so when I when I'm doing a podcast because
I love the thing and I'm just constantly like bashing it,
it doesn't it feels like that's.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Not what I'm doing, right, But it is what I'm doing.
I'm here because I fucking love Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I see. You know what, I get aggravated with more
than more than anything. I get aggravated when we get
like email or whatever from somebody or a comment on
YouTube or something where people are like, oh, like what,
you just hate every episode of this? Why are you
doing this? And I'm like, uh, you're not listening to
every episode because we had this episode in this episode,
(49:21):
like there there's clearly signs that we haven't really enjoyed
certain episodes of all of these things, right sure, Like
Discovery was the last time we actually got a comment
about that. I think we've run off everyone else already.
I'm but like, you know, it drives me. That's like
you go into like something like TV time and like
all the comments are like this was the most amazing
(49:43):
episode ever, like every like every episode is the most
amazing episode that's ever happened. Yeah, and I'm like, this
is a terrible community for me.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Well, and that's you know, and that's the thing about
being a podcaster is you are here kind of through
the thick and thin of it, and like we love
Star Trek, we're here to enjoy it. And even in
our regular lives, like when we've we either love a thing,
like you know, I will say last week's episode, no,
(50:13):
never mind, I don't know. That's trying to say it
might have still been better than Section thirty one.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Maybe I said episode not movie. Yeah, And I know,
I'm just Section thirty one might be the worst Star
Trek thing this ever.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
That's what I'm saying. I think, I think, and that's
pretty bad like that this year we've had two of
the worst Star Trek things ever, and it's really really
disappointing me.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
I don't know. Yeah, I wish there was an objective
way to like put them back without having to watch
them again.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
I darenalyze the problem. I would, I would analyze this further,
but I'm not gonna watch those two things again.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
Let's stack up section thirty one next to four and
a half vulcans.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (50:55):
Yep, that's pretty rough, pretty bad, pretty bad?
Speaker 2 (50:58):
All right?
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Anyway, Well we're to get out of here. Uh, we'll
be back two more weeks. We guess changed New Worlds
for two more weeks. I'm really excited more weeks.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
This was episode nine, wasn't it? This was eight? Was it?
Speaker 2 (51:08):
It was it nine?
Speaker 1 (51:09):
This is nine? You've got one more episode?
Speaker 3 (51:12):
Crap? I really thought this was eight? Well one more
episode then, damn.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah, I am.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
I'm excited for a break from this, which is really
sad to say, because I'm just in a dark place
with it, because they've put me in a dark place
with it.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
You're like Dewey Cox over here.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
I mean, damn, this is a dark period. But I'm
really hopeful that the finale will be a banger. I
really want to banger, no clue what it's about.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Uh, but yeah, that Stu brought up a good point.
I guess it was Stu. It may have been Stu,
I don't remember. Now it was Andre, Oh yeah, it
was Andre. It was Andre. So Andre brought up a
good point and I had not. I was like, oh,
I wonder what the last episode is going to be
this season, and then he reminded me of what the
(52:10):
last episode is probably going to be this season. I
was like, ah, shit, what it's good.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Of Gorn coming out and the computer virus thing.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
It could either go a really interesting way or it
could really go like a boring way that I don't know.
I don't know how I feel about it, because I
really want to know what the Vesta pa are. I
want to know if they have anything to do with
the Paw Wraith. I want to know all these things.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
He Had's so funny, like we both want cool connections
to pass stuff, and then when cool connect when when
connections happened to past stuff? We're kind of like that
seemed forced, So like, I don't know if I want
to know. Oh yeah, if the Vesta payn to do
with the pie Wraith. But I do like both of
those stories, the Vesta Pa and the Gorn Baby. I'm
(52:58):
into it, and they have that connection where they're wanting
to fight each other, so like, I'm into that as
a finale if that's where they're going.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
Yeah, it's not that I necessarily want it. I'm just like, look,
these things look like the paw rais you named it
Vesta Pa. Like you're clearly trying to evoke something that
would make fans. You're you're throwing out dog whistles here.
Yeah for sure. Now, if you fuck it up, we're
gonna be mad. Right, if you, you know, really make
(53:29):
it a stupid connection that's gonna suck.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
You know there it's gonna and a lot of Star
Trek nowadays feels like fan wink yeah, because I think
it is.
Speaker 3 (53:43):
Yeah, and I don't. It's like, I definitely don't mind
fan service. I don't at all, But like, yeah, you
gotta have the meat there too, and you gotta push
the story forward. You gotta have me be a fan
of the thing we're doing right now so that in
the future there's something else to wank about, Right, I
need more things to wank about? Is really what I'm
getting at Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, I mean, don't we all don't we all gotta
becoming vinive? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (54:11):
You know, things get more and more specific as you
get older.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Yeah, Joel.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Livelog and Prosper.
Speaker 3 (54:32):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe Podcast,
a Stranded Panda production. If you'd like to hear more
from David C. Robertson, check out the DC on Screen
podcast or Malagus dot tv for his web videos. If
you'd like to hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out
the Marvel Cinematic Universe podcast or listen to his music.
(54:52):
Just search for Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music
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