Strange New Worlds 3x10 - "New Life and New Civilizations" Review

They finally told an original story, maman -- or they started to before they were "inspired" by an episode of The Next Generation and did that instead. Alright, fine. It was the only part that actually worked.

Episode Reviewed: Star Trek: Strange New Worlds 3x10 - "New Life and New Civilizations" 

Hosts:
David C. Roberson
Matthew Carroll

Note: This episode of Star Trek Universe continues Dave and Matt's ongoing journey discussing Star Trek as they have since the late 1980s.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On this episode of Star Trek Universe, we are reviewing
but tell the Pokemon Slayer or Strange New lay lines three, ten,
New Life, and New Civilizations. Right after these words from
our mystery sponsors, welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
To Star Trek Verse, the podcast were you listening on?
Two lifelong friends sit and chat about Star Trek Take two.
My name's Matthew Carroll.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm David C.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Robbers and had a little technical difficulty. So we we're
gonna have to recapture the magic of that first four
minutes of that podcast we just recorded.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, I know the magic, Dave. It was magical. It
was it was it was science that was so far
beyond us. This is like, might as well be magic.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's very much like the greatest song in the world.
This is just a tribute. This won't be as magical.
This is just a tribute. Uh So, yeah, Well, you
told me before we get started that we got a
lot of feedback. This bit more than normal. So let's
get into this episode quick so we can try to
get as much of that feedback as possible. So what

(01:09):
do you think of Strange New Worlds from Season three finale?

Speaker 1 (01:13):
I thought it was we can jumbled. I felt like
there was a lot of stuff in there that they
tried to throw in. You know, they introduced this idea
of galactic lay lines. It might be a thing that
they never go back to in Star Trek. You know
sometimes Star Trek does that. I will admit as just
like with the Vesta Pa like turns out it looks
like they're not the paw Raise. Okay, they're just a

(01:34):
different ancient evil, which we've had plenty of in the
original series.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Oh but this is and this is gonna tease the
thing I'm super annoyed at. But it's not another ancient evil.
It's the evil that exists before that causes all evil.
It's like, the concept of evil is what they have.
They described it when they're talking with Betel later, and
that's the conversation, and that that will be my negative

(02:02):
take for this week, predominantly, the predominant part of me that, yeah,
that the conversation was terrible in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yeah, because I'm like, you know, if you're like the
ancient evil that started all the ancient evil, they fucking
beat them pretty easy.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well yeah, and that's a whole nother issue, and we
can get to it since we want, but uh, the
ancient evil part just hert all of Batell's stuff, her
whole thing about like her just asserting that maybe if
I'm a chimera version of these four races, I have
all of the good within me and I can fight

(02:39):
all the evil. It felt like she was like given
her own superhero origin and it wasn't like it she
tapped into some knowledge. It was her and it wasn't
like they gave her information that would allude to that. Yeah,
it was a real logical leap on Betel's part, and
then they just sort of support it with like, uh
a Spock's like, well that is true if all cultures

(02:59):
they could have had these epidemiological changes that could have
caused blah blah blah, and it's like, no, this is
just this is the technobabble biobabble. I guess that is
like weird and not at all, Like it doesn't make
any sense, and they could have written it slightly different

(03:21):
and it would have made sense. And this was just
two Doctor Who for me, like there's a thin line.
Doctor Who and Star Trek are two things I love,
but Star Trek is like truth and science and then
it's human stories built around that, and sometimes there's crazy
gods and like you got to like but you've got
to make them work within the science. That's like to me,
that's Star Trek. Doctor who doesn't have to do that,

(03:44):
Doctor who can be like, this is the evil before
all evil was spoken and you're like, yeah, I'm going
I'm with you, doctor, you're the doctor. Like all whatever
you say, I trust. But but tell walking in the
room and being like, maybe I am all I have
all things good within me, and I am the superpowered
being that is going to fight this thing. And it's like, okay,

(04:06):
I know that she was. She had already realized that
she had the like DNA of the creature or like
the what they call the biosignature of the of the
creature that was in that thing. So like, but they
didn't know what that creature was. It was just a real,
real leap to the point that like a couple of
other lines to replace those that very long conversation would

(04:29):
have made sense if Spock had said, it appears that
as we're approaching the planet, your chimeral DNA is highlighting
these portions of your genetic material, and and now we're
seeing that it's blow, but it just wanted to be
Doctor Who and it's not Doctor Who, and it pissed
me off.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
It was so bad. It wants to be Doctor Who's
so bad that, like Alia was like, I had to
tell you about the time I was hanging out with
the time traveling doctor.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
Yeah, oh yeah, the time trap. I mean a charming doctor.
And it's like, yeah, you've already you've already shown a
tartist this season, and now you had her say that
line and you do this kind of bullshit, which I
really love Doctor Who, but it's a different level of
suspension disbelief for me than Star Trek is.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Now. I put her on on captions and she says
a time and then there's a hiccup and she goes
time traveling doctor. So it's like she fucked up the
line and they just kept it in the edit. She
didn't say a charming doctor. She said a time dash,
time traveling doctor, as.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
If she like, I'm pretty sure in the episode that's
what she said, though right, she didn't say.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I didn't hear as a charming but I can't understand
half the function.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
I think she says charming. I'm pretty sure she said
time trat and then she stops and then goes a
very charming doctor like, it is what I heard, And
I definitely rewound it because I was like, was that
a Doctor Who referenced? I think that was a Doctor
Who referenced. It was a Doctor Who reference.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
But interestingly I had I'm not caught up on Doctor Who,
but one of the later seasons that Russell T Davies
was doing, so like, the companion mentions, oh, like a
transport like on Star Trek, and the doctor laughs and goes,
We're gonna have to visit them.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
We're gonna visit them sometime. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Also I should point out, uh, and it's funny because
the producers have recently basically been being like, well, season
four is gonna be better than season three because season
three we had we had a lot of problems with
the writer's strike and we had to shut down everything
and we couldn't write. And it's okay, fine, fine.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
I will I'll give them a pass. Like I love
season one and two so much that season three has
been a bit of a crap show, and I like
the thing is okay to try to step away from
it for a second. This episode had some really cool
things and cool ideas, and it could have been amazing
if it reminded me of Stargate with them like going

(06:56):
to this culture that like is still worshiping these gods
and this this reminds me so much of Stargate. You
never watched Dargate, right.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
I didn't. In as much as I'd seen all of
Star Trek up to that point, I watched a lot
of Stargate.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah, okay, okay, he just ripped.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
Off a lot of Star Trek episodes.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, no, for sure what I like Stargate for for
very various reasons. But I did enjoy Stargate what I saw. Yeah,
it's really good. But the gua Ould are like these
ancient this ancient race of like worm aliens that inhabit humans.
And this this guy is standing in this like you know,
it's not a it's not a pyramid, but it's a
it's like a double pyramid, floating double pyramid that he's

(07:36):
in and he's like got the the the darkened eyes
and stuff like it just so and the voice reminded
me so much of a gua Ould from Stargate.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, that's why they had the ley lines, because it
went to the pyramids.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, it felt like a pretty deliberate
reference to to stargate almost, And I know it just
was like a guy with a boomy voice, but it
just felt like that to me. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
By the way, I think we did it on the
previous version of the recording. I'm gonna explain quickly what
lay lines are and why we're annoyed by them.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
Oh right, right, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
Lay lines in real life supposedly are allegedly straight alignments
connecting historic sites, landmarks, and ancient structures. First proposed in
the early twentieth century, europe Believers see them as a
as paths of earth energy or even guides for alien craft,
while archaeologists and scientists dismissed them as pseudoscience that overlooks
genuine indigenous knowledge and scholarship. They're not you know, absolute

(08:35):
things that we know are true.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, it's just people taking lines and drawing them maps
and connecting dots between ancient ancient sites that seem to
be over developed for their time period or whatever, and
so people go ooh aliens or ooh whatever powers, sources
of power.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
But yeah, but also like things like the the Appalachian
mountains which apparently are full of quark and areas around there,
like hell, you're Kentucky and Point Pleasant, you know, with
the moth Man and all of that stuff is along
lay lines.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I know you used to listen to that.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Uh oh this shit star Trek.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Yeah, no, I mean, like, I don't mind. Again, it's
very doctor Who, very doctor Who to be like lay lines. Yeah,
let's take them and grab them and use some alien
race to make them make sense or whatever. And this
is galactical lay lines, which at least in this case,
and I am fuzzy on what we sit on this
recording or the previous recording, but at least in this case,

(09:34):
it's like they explained it was like galactic interdimensional travel routes. Yeah,
so like that makes sense if there's int galactic travel routes,
that certain like places would be along those lines and
they would have development. But it is very, very late,
very pseudoscience. Y.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I will say, though, when we start to consider and
they didn't, you know, they're obviously not going to bring
this up. But when we start considered that this is
all shit from the que essentially might make sense why
they get around the galaxy. So well, yeah, I guess
if they created them. Well, I thought this was the

(10:12):
Vezda that created them. I don't know if it was them.
I was so unsure of anything that was happening in
this episode, right, just like when we get to fucking
what is it called, like Snowplowda or something, I don't know,
fucking pyramid world. We get a pyramid world and and
uh uh in Benga is like, oh, that passage is

(10:35):
about me and I was a child and I killed
my first But what fucking life did you live? Dude?
But whatever, they gloss over that, like he's just like, oh,
he was in his mind. Now he knows he's gotta
be like he's got to use him to get to
I don't know what the fuck is happening on this episode,
and they don't explain it well.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I didn't get that feeling. I thought they did explain
it fairly well. But it's like our characters don't really
know what's going on. We don't We never get that
sort of reveal of what all this means. It just
sort of it's doctor Whoey man, and I mean Whoey
like it it's it's doctor Whoey. Emphasis on the whoy it's.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Very Stephen Moth at Doctor Huey.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Yes, one hundred percent, one hundred percent, but it's it's
this whole evil is happening, and and like nothing really
has to make sense because literally cause and effect or
can be reversed at any point in the plot they
need it to, so so they just like instead of
making it make sense that she is a chimerical thing

(11:37):
that can step into this interdimensional place and become this
permanent both infinite forwards and backwards creature that we see
destroyed in the episode two. So I guess this is
like the beginning of her loop. And she stays there
a long time and then is eventually destroyed by this
character too. So they're locked in and he destroyed. She's

(11:58):
in some sort of like no, but he blows the
the one that is up there. He blows it up,
which means and then she fights them all and replaces it.
So that means that this is the end of her
life as she knows it. She takes her part as
the what they called her the no, what was her protector,

(12:21):
that's not it though, it's like beholder or something like that. Yeah,
whatever the protector is that she becomes so she she
becomes the protector statue thing, and then eventually it will
loop around its own tail and he will blow it up.
And this is like their ancient fight they always have
to have. This is the thing though, this is the
thing that bothers me. Okay, it doesn't bother me more

(12:43):
than the evil conversation. That's my that's my least favorite
thing about this episode. Uh, it's it is terrible. It
is such bullshit that it bothered it. Just like she
comes in with an idea and it just feels like
she's like making it up in her own head. She's like,
I have an idea. I've made up my own purpose
and that's my purpose now. And they're like, yeah, yeah,
good call. You are the perfect good being that has

(13:07):
all the power to fight evil. Like it was just
really really stretching and.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
By the way, that felt really rush. But she's like,
this is why I don't feel like I belong as
a captain or as this other thing that I just became.
We haven't seen her in that role. We didn't know,
she didn't feel.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Exactly she came. We heard last we heard that that
saying like a cool fit for her. She was like
deciding not to be a captain because she was moving
on to something else. It was not character earned at all.
And if we had seen that a little more or something.
But here's the thing that really bothers me. This just
Betel's journey. This is Betel's big battle against evil as

(13:46):
she becomes I want to say the Beholder, but I'm not.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Sure the Beholder is from Marvel, you know.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah? But was she?

Speaker 1 (13:55):
No, that was beyond her, the beyonder never mind?

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I fucked that up. The Beholder. Yeah
it's the Beholder. Yeah, okay, which doesn't mean prison guard
at all. It means to look at something.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
But whatever, she's beholding that shit, making sure those assholes
don't step out alive.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, I guess she'd beholding it.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
She'd be holding that shit together.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Man.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
But no. The thing that bothers me most about this
episode is they had to shove the Inner Light into
this episode, oh yeah, which like was a beautiful sequence
and the knock of the door was so haunting and
like it made me it. It stacks yet another weird

(14:44):
temporal anomaly thing on top of Pike Psyche, which like,
honestly is a bit of a hat on a hat
like he already has this thing where he knows his
own future. I feel like that's enough of like a thing,
and now he has a second life and childern he
has to remember that never existed.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Like this is just too.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Much for one man, and like it felt like you
know that you know the concept of fridging when you
let let a female, particularly let a female character die
so that the male character can have more character development.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Oh yeah, you know where it comes from Unen Lantern comic.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Oh interesting, I knew that. I did not know exactly.
I couldn't have couldn't have pulled it. I heard, I've
heard that before.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
I have that issue.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
It's nice. Well, this idea of fridging. This is such
a big example of it in my opinion, because this
is supposed to be her big battle against evil. Everything
she's gone through, She's gonna go into this room and
have like some sort of big hero moment and then.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
Season I'm going, what the fuck has she gone through? Well,
she merely done anything. This season.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
She went through like the inhabit being inhabited by the Gorn.
Then she has this like weird thing where she she
like can't control herself and fights this other creature and
like there's some weird stuff in there. Like she's good,
she had all this recovery, she's recovering the entire season.
I feel like a lot. Eh No, I disagree. I
disagree with you on this. I think that she has had.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
They have.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
They've spent the entire season. If nothing else, they have
been overly like, well, she's still working through things. She's
she's still recovering. This was not like a normal Star
Trek injury where like it happens and then the next
episode they're fine.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
I'll give you that.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
This was like the entire season. They've mentioned almost every episode,
so I think I think they've laid the groundwork there.
But they finally give her her moment to be a
hero and be the Beholder, and her eyes go all
you know, galaxy whatever, and like then they cut away
and I'm sorry. I know that she was there too,
But that entire thing felt like Pikes, like it was

(16:52):
giving Pike a vision of their future. Yeah, it did.
It felt very hymn focused, like he's the one that's
deciding not to go to the door to answer the
knock and everything like it was it was about him.
It felt like it was like, that's nice that they
got to see what their life together would be. He
had to experience their life together. That was really it's
a beautiful idea, but in that moment, you do that

(17:14):
and then you come back and then she just goes
like I have God powers, I win like I am,
but tell I have all the light within me. I
vanquish you. And that's the end. There's no like cleverness.
There's no thoughtfulness, there's no realizations, nothing about her character
grows or changes in the ending. It's just her stepping

(17:35):
into that battle, big like ten minute long distraction, focusing
on Pike and giving him new memories. Then we will
have to contend with next season and then and then
like her just coming back and doing like shiny hands
vanquish evil. It felt so fridgiing to me, like she's

(17:57):
going through all this stuff and like she's becoming this
god creature to vanquish all evil, and it's focusing on
Pike's memories and it just felt that way to me.
I don't know, maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
I don't That didn't feel that way to me. I
did hate that entire I hated it, like loathed the
fuck out of it because not only what did it? Uh,
bas like you said, put a hat on a hat
because he's totally gonna go and have this like whole
future with Vena in the you know, Telosian caves or whatever, right,

(18:30):
and and then that makes you think, like, is you
gonna make Vena look like? But tell like, what the
fuck is gonna anyway? That's weird.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
People are gonna have people can have different loves in
their life, and this is just the end of this relationship, sure.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Uh and that I don't know, it's just weird that
they went that route and took so much time away
from the rest of the story that we were telling.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
That's that's what I'm getting. That's what I mean. I
feel like it that entire thing that has been leading
up to for the entire season, from her in the
first episode get becoming a gorn, getting a gorn inside
of her, and then the second episode getting Chimaryl whatever
going on, and like, all this stuff has been going
on to build to this moment the the other episode

(19:18):
in this quantum unfolding chamber. Sorry old peacemaker reference, y,
I know what it was for the listeners would but
all all this episodes led to this and then they decided, now,

(19:40):
let's do inter Light instead for ten minutes.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
What you know, they just had the Star Trek Day panel.
The fucking producers got up there and went, yeah, we
were doing the Inner Light like they said that like
about this episode.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
Okay, yes, they're.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Like, hell yeah, we decided, uh we should do that
the Inner Light. Like, what the fuck is wrong with y'all?

Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, that is not how that works.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
It's just so so frustrating. You acts get the fuck
out of my franchise. I'm there now, I'm there. I'm sorry,
I'm there now.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Yeah, it's pretty bad. I'm pretty upset at the season.
We can complain about the Marvel Sin Maaciers podcast all
the time, where h A lot of these New Disney
Plus shows will do like seven episodes about one thing,
or eight episodes or whatever, and then the finale they'll
bring in a character that hasn't been in it. It's
kind of a cameo, which is cool to see a cameo.

(20:35):
I love a cameo, but when you put it in
the final episode, it draws attention away from the thing
you've been watching for eight episodes. Yeah, it's a thing
that's done a few times and it always frustrates me. Well,
this was that thing, but like it's not a new character,
it's just Pike having the It's like, you've worked this
big plot about the Vesda, and like, I am very

(20:59):
interested in the Vesda, Let's tell the Vesda story, and
then instead you do interlight like what are you doing?

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Well, it's also part of the prequel problem and part
of I hate when they go back and do stuff
like this, because they've made it to where we are
now attached to this character, and they as writers and
producers are attached to this character of Pike. We know
that he's gonna have to get rid of ATel somewhere,
somehow she goes away and we don't know how. But

(21:29):
also we don't want Pike to have such a bad life,
so you just start inserting all of this stuff to
try to make it, you know, it's a softer landing. Well,
he had an entire he lived an entire lifetime in
his mind with the love of his life. So now
it's not so sad when the baffle plating ruptures and

(21:52):
he winds up in a chair for like six months.
Three said whatever.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
It is, and the getting another special life that he
gets in the other different.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
I don't want. Also, like, damn it, I better see
Pike struggling between his reality and the true reality next season, like.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
Well, and that that to me would have been more interesting,
Like if they'd taken thirty seconds to do this and
then next season he's having flashes and we see a
little more of it, like that would have been kind
of interesting. But like, to do it this way just
really undercut this season story and Betell's story specifically, which
Bettel has. I've also struggled, partially because I know she's

(22:32):
going away. I have struggled to feel the connection between
those two characters and like put a lot of uh,
I don't know emphasis in my own heart on those
two characters and their their relationship.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, so yeah, I have never seen much chemistry between them,
mainly because every time we see them there's something wrong
where she's sad.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
Which, like I I think that's sectually like that. There
are times I felt the relationship felt very real to me,
I don't think, but it's not something that was necessarily
rooting for. It always felt like it was doomed to fail,
and not necessarily because of some ancient war between good
and evil. To me, it just felt like maybe they'll

(23:17):
break up because they are constantly at loggerheads, you know,
about all these different things, and like especially a few
like okay, this fridging concept bothers me a lot more
when just a few episodes ago they had a conversation
where she didn't tell him about her medical issue and
she's like, I don't want I didn't want to tell
you about it because I didn't want you to make

(23:38):
it about you, and then she's having her ancient battle
between good and evil, and then it felt like it
made it all about him.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Yeah. I didn't feel that way, though, Like I felt
like it was like I felt like she lived it
with him, and like we had a lot of shots
with her in the foreground and Pike in the background,
and her reacting to things and introducing things like she
knew about her daughters and engagement before Pipe did, right
or was that the opposite.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
Anyway, I didn't feel like it was all about him,
But I get what you're saying. I kind of I understand.
I don't feel like we got enough of her. I
feel like one of these stupid, fucking, silly episodes should
have gone away and we should have focused on Batel
because of what they knew was coming. Yeah, because I
it was a lot to shove in there that suddenly

(24:28):
she's feeling not happy with her current role she fought
to get and and this idea of her being, this
like Chimarole being, should have been more explored. Like all seasons,
she could have been playing with this idea and her
powers and what it means and what it taps into.
They could have had some other kind of evil they

(24:50):
encountered and she could have responded and had some sort
of response to this darkness or whatever, you know, like
they could have done something with her throughout the season
that kind of gave more clips to other than just
like to me. It just like the Gorn as we
talked about ad in depth. So like the Gorn and
the Vesda had some history. That's all it felt like,
which was cool I was down for, but it didn't

(25:10):
seem like this. I mean I wanted to know more
about this whatever this planet was, that this that Gamble
you know with his creature, you know how he had
like people down there stabbing their eyes out, Yeah, following him.
We didn't even cover that shit. Yeah, we even talk
about that in the episode. Really we saw it briefly.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah, exactly that we see it, and we know that
they're preparing themselves to take on the VESDA, like they're
preparing vessels for the VESDA, is what it sounded like.
And that all like sounded really interesting. And I would
have liked to see all those characters like lined up
and ready and when the swirling aliens start coming out,
like I want to see them like chanting and ready

(25:50):
to you know, Like, I don't know, it seemed like
there were steaks that could have been raised in really
interesting ways that just instead they did it in a light.
I didn't hate the Interlight thing. I really didn't like.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
I would lot episode with different character exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Like the concept is great, that's why it's called That's
why Interlight is so good. Like and I don't mind
you recycling a concept in a different context, but when
you do it in such a distracting way from such
a episode that you've led to, it's just dumb and like, yeah,
there's no reason for that to exist. There's no like

(26:30):
evidence before that point that she has any powers to
do that or like there's no like it would have
felt really earned if in a previous episode we'd seen
that she could like look at alternate realities or if
she could like she starts to see it since these
powers she has and can't really control them, but she
starts to see different things or something, and then when

(26:51):
she realizes she can share that with him in their
last moments, it would be like if it was intentional
and like really like beautiful, like that could have worked.
But they didn't do that, So it just feels out
of nowhere, and it feels like a distraction from what
you've been leading to.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah, I feel like they should have sacrificed one of
the stupid episodes and made this a big two parter. Yeah, agreed,
And you know that's just you know, my personal, my
personal take on that.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
I agree. I feel like we have to touch on it.
Kirgan Spack, this episode had their first mind Melduh.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
I'm not I'm not gonna sit here and say that
it's not possible. They did it in the original series
as far as like melding two minds and then both
of the most people acting as one. That was a thing. Uh,
we've seen that. I don't personally, I don't care for
the we're gonna mind meld and suddenly we're fast friends.

(27:53):
I like the and I think Tos meets this out
even though it's not technically canon anymore. Uh, you know
the idea that like Spock and Kirk at the beginning
are friendly, but they are not the trusted companions that
they become by like season two, and you know by
Motion Picture that's undone a lot and by Star Trek

(28:16):
two that they're back because there's been like ten years
between and economically anyway, Like, I like the idea that
like they slowly become friends. It's not just like a, well,
we mind melded that time, and we've had a couple
of adventures together back when the Farragut was just hanging
around the Enterprise all the fucking time.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Oh see. I didn't take that as they are friends
now or they're fast friends because of that. I thought that,
like their minds were interesting. I think that their minds melding,
they realized they had like some similarities or connections and

(28:56):
sort of I think this Spock saw Kirk's brain and
was like interest that this man is more interesting and
like more complex and more whatever than I've been maybe
giving him full credit for and I'm like, I think
we will be friends, you know, like I think he's like,
he doesn't even say we are friends. He's like, we
will be friends a long time. Like I think I
think our lives will intersect. And it is sort of

(29:18):
like weird to forecast that, but uh.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, maybe even we'll we'll serve them on the same
ship sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't like it.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
And it could be that in the moments of a
mind mild you just have those you're just connected and
and they're and they're feeling that connection between each other. Yeah,
but uh, I didn't mind it. I liked it. I
think it was a little bit ham fisted because it's
Kirk and Spock, and you gotta establish the relationship so early.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
I think it's interesting to see it grow over time.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, that's the thing that you don't you don't have
to establish it. You just don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
You don't, you don't at all.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
We were doing fine.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, all right, Well, any other I know, there's lots
of other stuff in this episode, because it's pretty packed.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, all the implications of what in Benga did, like
his childhood, whatever the fuck that was and yeah what
it means. And I do like the idea that, like
the Queue or whoever fought ancient evil. I like the
idea that there are there was some force in the
galaxy way way, way way back that like handed down

(30:28):
the notions of good and evil throughout the universe. I
like that basic notion. I hate it, but I don't
like the way they did it.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
I hate it with everything every bit of me, because
I feel like it's and it's it's not realistic, it's
not good and evil. I don't believe in good and
evil really. I believe that people make choices, and people
are complicated, and beings out in the galaxy are going
to continue to make choices and can going to continue
to be complicated, and like you try to towards your

(31:01):
the better angels of your nature or whatever, and that's
what the struggle of being a human is. And to
try to say that all the evil comes from it's
such a you know, you talked about how the lay
lines thing bothers you. To me, this is like we
have over the years of Star Trek talked about how

(31:23):
like they've sort of grown out of religion, you know,
like they don't really have religion. Pike is religious, So
there are still people that are religious, but religion isn't
like an overdriving part of their society anymore because now
it's more science based. And so Star Trek. I liked
that about Star Trek and I want it to stay
that way. And so the idea that there is a

(31:43):
thing that evil is personified by it just feels like
anti scientific to me, And it feels like hogwash.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah, I don't. I don't think the idea of philosophically,
of good and evil being cosmic forces on some greater
plane is necessarily anti science. But also it helps me
because they've already kind of done that in Star Trek
for like since the beginning. So I'm just kind of like, okay, Well,

(32:15):
like Jack, there's an episode of the original series Wolf
in the Fold where it turns out that there's like
this guy running around killing women on this planet and
it turns out the motherfucker is Jack the Ripper, except
it's been like a demonic entity from the beginning of time. Sure,
that has just been going along. Yeah, but to me,
the planet doing this.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
That is different. Having a demonic entity, which you know,
we talked about the pa race to me like demonic
entity is an indity. It's just I think it's possible
to have an entity that has like whatever about it
has made it so broken or ill intentioned that it
is evil that it is like it is acting evil,

(32:59):
is doing evil actions. But the idea that like there
is a race of beings that personify evil itself feels
weird and anti scientific to me. And that again feels
like Doctor Who and not like Star Trek.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, I don't know. Star Trek is too many things. Sure,
it's like if I think about I mean, I will
be the first to be like, that doesn't feel like
Star Trek. And then like I was sit there and
go like, wow, there's this episode and in this episode, yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
You can pull up especially original series. I think that
the show was still developing, and there are episodes that,
like you say, it doesn't feel like Star Trek, but
it is. I mean, and I feel like that about this.
It doesn't feel like Star Trek, but it is strange.
New Worlds is Star Trek and I and I accept
it as such, but I don't like when it does
these things that veer so far from what I feel

(33:46):
like is the mission statement of the thing.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
I don't mind the idea of ancient good and evil
in some contexts. Yeah, that informed everything, But I don't
like the idea that they were I don't know. I
don't like the way that they were saying it was
the original evil or whatever.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
That that's what bothered me. Not it doesn't bother me
that it's uh an ancient evil being the Paraise. The
whole thing with the Parraith is amazing because it's at
once religious and scientific, and they meld the two perfectly.
That's what's amazing. One of the amazing things about d
S nine is how it takes the sort of scientific

(34:24):
and the religious and sort of puts them together. This
didn't feel like that. This just felt like there's these
weird spirit creatures that yeah, represent all evil, and it
tried to put a sheen of science over it by
talking about epigenetic changes in us that grow good in
us to fight back the evil. Like it's, yeah, it's weird.

(34:47):
I don't like it, you know what.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Though the whole time I was sitting there as I
was annoyed with the episode, though I was personally sitting
there going where does the koalas play in? And why
am I so willing to joyfully gleefully even except the koala.

(35:10):
But pooh pooh this yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
And what does it know? What does it know?

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Why is it smiling? What does it know? All right,
we should probably get a feedback.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, let's get the feedback.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Oh man, Mark McAllen says to us an email titled
Goofy Timeline. Hey, guys, I'm starting to think that everything
we're seeing after those old scientists is in a new timeline. Basically,
when Boiemler and Mariner came back in time to came

(35:46):
back in time to strange new worlds, they split the
timeline and behold the Goofy timeline, which includes four point
five vulcans and the like. I'll be taking no questions
at this time. Something happened.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, that's a that's that's not bad. That's not bad.
We've had things in the past where, you know, a
time traveler comes back from the future star trek and
it creates it. This is what is the Boimler timeline.
Sure we had the Kelvin the Kelvin timeline. Sure, this
is the Boimler Boemler and uh, oh gosh, my brain
isn't coming up with her name Marion Boimler and Marinner Timeline.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Am I remembering this right? Didn't they say that they
were They've been drinking something that makes them look see
themselves as cartoons, so like their whole perspective is the cartoon. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
At the end of the episode, the Strange New World's
crew drinks something that makes them Yeah, yeah, yeah, it
was strange. Huh, unnecessary, Like that's one of those unnecessary things.

Speaker 1 (36:56):
Richard Thompson rise in the current state of Strange New
World's quality slash content. Hey, David Matt love your opinions
on the episodes, even if sometimes they are brutally honest. Lol,
But I can always tell you to do have a
genuine love for the franchise.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I'm so glad. I'm so glad that comes through me too, man,
especially this season. I just really was nervous that wasn't
coming through.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
So thank you, Yeah, thank you, ma'am. I've had a
thought about the lighter touch this season. Stories seemed to
have taken with delivering the messages we usually expect from
a Star Trek show. Is it possible the writers are
slash We're avoiding any hot socio political topics to avoid
upsetting the sale of Paramount or the government's approval of

(37:44):
the sale. No, it was too far. They there was
nothing there. We didn't know anything about that when they
wrote and started producing and then stopped, and then the
writer strikes happened, and then they came back to produce
the rest of it. It just it was way before.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Yeah, I like it as a theory, But the thing is,
I don't think this. I do think this season has avoided,
you know, any real political messaging, but I don't think
it's been a result of that. But that hasn't really
been the problem for me. It's been just this like crazy,
just like weird shit in every episode and almost every
episode there's just like a weird choice or a thing

(38:26):
that makes no sense, and it's just really it's been
hard for me to suspend disblief and enjoy the episodes. Yeah, blah,
but but yeah, no, I I that's a good theory.
But yeah, I think this was all filmed by the time.
That was by the time Trump was stepping on the
neck of CBS.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, we didn't even know that they were doing a
merger like that was pretty pretty recent and it went
through pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Well, and you said this was all shot like last summer.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Is it just it was during the during the strikes.
It actually there was part of it that was they
were shooting and then they had to stop because of
the strikes.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Okay, well that's like probably before Trump was even elected. Yeah,
so yeah, so probably a lot most of this was
written before Trump was even elected.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Like they're about to start shooting season five. Yeah, like
at the end of this month. Okay, so uh, he continues,
By the way, I didn't mean to be a dick.
Dick Rich, sorry, but I was like, no, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I haven't watched four and a half fulcans out of fear,
so I'm I'm a podcast behind.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Maybe I'll get a glass of romulan ale and which
two episodes this season to help it go down easier.
Keep it up, sorry, keep up the great and entertaining commentary,
livelong and prosper Yeah. I think I think he sent
this a while ago and I didn't. I didn't see
it or something, so I'm sair.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, well, thank you for the feedback, though, I'm sorry Rich,
Thanks Rich.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
All right. John McCrae thoughts from the Star Trek Multiverse. Hey, lads,
First off, fair play on keeping Star Trek Universe going strong.
It's been a highlight in my week, even when the
shows themselves give me more heartburn than joy. Speaking of which,
Strange New World season three Jesus mostly shite, if I'm

(40:27):
being honest, But like that old box of chocolates, most
of them are filled with toothpaste and regret. But every
now and then you bite into one and think, ah,
that's a keeper. Indeed, indeed, now onto my scolding, Matt. Matt,

(40:49):
you cheeky fecker.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Never been called that before. I like it.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
You called Patton Oswalt a fat, schlubby guy, and then
turn around and gave Dave grief for saying Patten's wife
was attractive. Do you hear yourself? You can't. You can't
be tossing rocks at a glass starship, in a glass
starship like that.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
That is a h I think he might begin as confused.
I never said his wife attracted. I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
I said it was weird that they were playing it up.
I think like he like it was like, oh like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but I was And then I said something about you said.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Something about it being in the real world. His wife's
attracted yeah, yeah, so this isn't so I think he's
I'm just saying like I didn't say that, so I
think he might be giving you shit.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
No, no, he said that, but you did say it
was something like it was awkward to say something about
someone being attractive or something.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Maybe I don't remember. I don't really either, but but
I think this. I think this ship might either be
for both of us.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Or or you.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
Let's see, I don't think I had called him a fat,
schlubby guy. I might have, though I don't use the
word schlubby often.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
I don't know it was a week ago or really
at least a week ago.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, I have no idea. But was it a week
ago or was it two weeks ago?

Speaker 2 (42:17):
It's probably two weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah, all right, Uh do you hear yourself? You can't
be tossing rocks in a glass starship like that. That's
hypocrisy at warp speed mate and Dave. Now, thanks to you,
I now have to go through life with the knowledge
that you get you get a naughty gob on Natty Gan.

Speaker 2 (42:41):
What a naughty goment what? Well, I don't know what
a naughty I'm assuming a naughty gob is a is
an erection?

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Well, now, I mean, well, gob sounds like it's come
uh so, yeah, Natty Gan is that his wife is
the woman who played Natty Gan when she I don't know.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
I don't know who Natny Gan is. I've really enjoyed
the language of this feedback.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
He said that ain't right, Bruv. Well, what's your name?
John rest assured I do not have a naughty gob.
I merely meant to say that objectively. With symmetry she is,

(43:30):
you know, the symmetrical of her face. You know, she's
very symmetrical, traditionally classically an attractive person. I have no
naughty gobs.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Who is.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Patton Oswald's wife? Oh?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Natan all right, that's not her real name.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
She played a character called Natty Gan. Okay, I don't
know what's happening, Matt, this is I don't either, man.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I'm trying. I yeah, I'm just trying to find out
who Natty Yan is. Yeah, and is that his current wife? Yes,
because I know he had a wife that passed away. Right, Okay, got.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
It, he continues, Here's hope and strange New World Season
four is better than this. The puppets have me worried.
I wonder if the Discovery haters will take issue. They
hated when the crew felt too much. Now the crew
will be too much felt. He says, I stretched a

(44:34):
wee bit for that one. I've pulled something. Here's also
hoping Dave and f he continue the TOS reviews soon.
I've been missing them in my feed and would love
an excuse to go back and watch more TOS episodes.
I've got two in the can man, They're coming. Yeah. Nice,
love you both all in the love you all in

(44:54):
all the appropriate waves. Ways, sorry, I can't speak, and
he says, pe what with the Kelvin verse and the
multiple timelines the temporal war clearly created, shouldn't you two
rebrand to Star Trek Multiverse. I know the multiverse shite
is a bit played, but Star Trek Universe is also
the blanket branding paramount. USES. Would hate to see you

(45:16):
feckers taken down because of the new folks waggon cocks.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, I assume if something someone wanted to wag their
natty gobs at us, Yeah, we would. We would just
have to change our name. That's a good product, like
I think, especially we were a fan podcast. I don't
think anybody. If somebody wanted to brand challenge our branding,
they could just say they could price it as a

(45:43):
season desist or something.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Yeah. Probably uh Sterling Gray right said, Hey, guys, I
hope I'm getting this feedback in on time, longtime fan,
been listening for years. I'm just as bummed about this
season as you guys are. There were some good episodes.
I especially liked the Trelaine episode in the Mystery hour one,
but overall, I felt like we got too much candy

(46:05):
and not enough steak and potatoes. If this season had
twenty four episodes, like Back in the Day, the tone
might have balanced out better. But as it stands, it
felt like just a bunch of stuff that happened. I
like and wanted episodic Trek, but there wasn't a lot
of substance, not much story that stuck with me. I
hope star Trek four. Sorry. Season four is a little

(46:25):
more meaty, man, You're all about meat misteak and potatoes
and shit. The finale I found it very underwhelming. I
loved the fantasy sequence. Vesda Patel nice, we have funny listeners, man, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
We do like the I feel like Stu has set
a high bar for like puns and stuff in the emails,
and I love that people are following following that and
doing a lot of puns in these emails. This is wonderful.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah. Is there just like a group of starter o
our listeners who got together and said it's time fuck Stew. Anyway,
I love the fantasy sequt Vesta. Patel and Pike got
to live. Both of those characters know they are doomed
to spend the rest of their lives in a cage.
Oh well, yeah, when Pike doesn't realize he's going to

(47:25):
go to the Taalos cage again, No, no, he doesn't.
He just thinks he's going to be in the cage
of his fucked body. Yeah. So it was heartworming to
see them get a happy ending, even if it wasn't real.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
What is real?

Speaker 1 (47:41):
Neo uh? He says That said, the episode should have
been about ten minutes longer and needed a more climactic
showdown between Gamble and Patel. The final battle was visually cool,
but it was resolved way too quickly. I really wanted
to see Pike say goodbye to Patel, but answer Mounts
acting at the end helped make up for that missing scene.

(48:03):
He really sold that loss. I'm going to need an
explanation as to why the Farragut is the only other
star Fleet ship in space. We know they're going to
reboot TOS. Stop giving us Paul Wesley so often. Let
us appreciate him later. Anyway, I didn't like that Kirk
and Spock have kick started their friendship with a mind meld.

(48:24):
I feel you there. I like the idea that their
bond was forged over years of serving together, and it
still might. But I feel the mind meld is a
bit of a shortcut that minimizes their friendship. A couple
of random thoughts. They fired phasers from two ships into
a wall and didn't blow up anything. Word, I don't

(48:46):
know what to tell you on that one.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
Yeah, it's a little It was a special especially. Here's
the thing. So they had to do that, and they
decided to risk it or whatever, right, which is like, okay, sure.
There was no discussion of like they discussed how if
they did it wrong it would be catastrophic, and it
was two starships could blow up a bunch of stuff.

(49:08):
There was no discussion about the ethics of doing that
in the middle of a civilization, a pre warp civil
by the way, Yeah, exactly, a fucking pre warped civilization
that they don't seem to mind like going here and
doing all this stuff, at which I know the Vesta
are there, so it's not They're not the only people there.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
But still I was confused because like initially they were like,
it's pretty warp, but there are a bunch of you know,
other aliens there who are like anti Federation, so I
guess not everyone there is, uh, you know, they know
about the Federation, but the very least they were like,
we still need to dress up, so we'll be in

(49:46):
disguise when Pike and Patel go down there, though they're
in full Starfleet gear. They don't give a shit.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
It's funny. Yeah, it all felt a little rushed or something.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
Mmmmm, all right. A couple random thoughts. Oh, sorry, Yeah,
why is Sam Kirk in the show? I keep forgetting
that guy exists? How did Gamble beam himself from the
Enterprise of that planet from inside the transport that was
the lay lines, the galactic lay lines?

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Did Pike say that the alien tech was so advanced
it was indistinguishable from magic? Just so the writers didn't
have to explain what the hell was going on. Yes,
yes they did.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
It's always that's always the thing.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
I didn't get any of the science. This goes back
to last week's episode Terrarium. I wish Strange New Worlds
would stop breaking cannon. This is why I hate prequels
of anything. Jesus, Yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yep, man, I'm all with him on all those points.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Absolutely, let's get over to Stu. Stu says, hello, Hi Stu, Yes,
you should watch far Escape guys. Well, I feel Matt
might like it more than day for some reason. It's
pretty much the closest thing you would get to a
live action Guardians of the Galaxy series, What If, being

(51:07):
about a human shot across the universe and working with
a crew of diverse alien convicts, one of who's a plant,
another is a warrior with a dead family, another is
a woman who's the most serious of the group, who
he over time develops a romantic relationship with, to name
a few that's.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Very Guardians of the Galaxy actually.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Who kind of mostly tolerate him at first before forming
stronger bonds. There's also a fair amount of comedy in it,
and even silliness. Their take on the body swap formula
episode is particularly body and good effects, both in terms
of CGI for the time and practical makeup and puppetry.
With the Jim Henson Company contributing to that. Shooting in
Australia additionally meant that they used a lot of great

(51:50):
locations for filming, an addition to their impressive practical sets.
It also ends up having a great villain and Scorpius,
who is kind of like Grand Admiral Thron from Recent Stars.
But you know, if Dave Filoni actually knew how to
write a smart character, Jesus. The show was also pretty
good about emotional stakes and kicking your heart and the

(52:11):
balls at times, like the extended plot line where main
character Criton gets cloned and the copy is so identical
we never actually learned which of the two is the
original one, and after splitting the cast in two, with
one Criton going with each side, we jump between the two,
and the resolution of all that is pretty affecting. Yeah,
give it a try, take care stew.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
That sounds really good. That does.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
And by the way, I love Guardians at the Galaxy,
like so oh yeah, come on man ps New Life
and New civilizations, good jobs.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
This it won't be the same without you around. Stuff
with Patel would work better if she had actually been
more of a regular this season. Oh, she wouldn't have
had to be super involved in every plot, but another
captain being around to give informal advice on situations would
have made sense. Wow, picking on the Scotsman. Huh okay,
I see, I see how it is. Cheese birder, cheese

(53:14):
burger eating, Vietnam losing monkeys. I don't know, man, at
least when Melanie Scrafano was in Glasgow recently shooting the
New Spider Man movie, she had nice things to say
about us. But that's Canadians for you, nice people, unlike
some more Southerly folks. This is also another indirect dig

(53:39):
at Spock's human side, since Arthur Conan Doyle was Scottish.
You know, I thought that was just like that whole
thing with Scotty wearing the formal bit or her being like, hey,
you know, wear the formal shit. They did. They did
that to her in season one. The first time you
go to the captain's table, you have they tell you

(54:00):
formal thing.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
A little bit of hazing.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Yeah, ironically, Skygawan sounds like a Scottish town name.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
What did I call it earlier?

Speaker 2 (54:12):
I don't remember putting no flower or something. No flower, yeah,
no plowing.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Maybe the Gamble reveal was a little ruined by a
combination of the previously on and seeing the guy from
behind with his dreads before we got the teleporter h
pattern buffer stuff. Sick costume though, even if he does
look like a bit of a ripoff of Miroc from
the older scrolls.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Mmmm, all right, I hadn't played that.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
He sent a picture.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
I see the general shape of the character looking kind
of like him.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
He's got like a helmet a thing, you know. Yeah,
why does the vulcan nerve pinch work on seemingly every
human on speed humanoid species that is attempted on? Wouldn't
they have different nerves? At least the Krdassians Cardassians have
those neck and shoulder ridges as a defense. Yeah, I
guess everybody. It's like the you know, because of the
fucking penis headed aliens went from the chase see in

(55:09):
the galaxy the progenitors you know.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah, they put they put that in there as like
a defense mechanism. Yeah, it's like the it's like the
vents on the Death Star.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
Yeah, the vague, the vague nerve and everybody. Yeah, yeah,
do you remember the uproar when Unification Part two came
out and data did the nerve pinch and Star Trek
fans were mad and writing into magazines and ship and
talking about like it's supposed to be a fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
No, I don't. I don't remember that, but I understand
why it would happen.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
They're using their vulcant powers to put in like a
little suggestion through their fingers what it was interesting. Okay,
a lot of people assume that, and then that's not true.
It's just a thing anybody can do in Star Trek.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Yeah, just takes you have to really know how to
do it.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
Yeah, takes away from the Falcans in my opinion. Yeah,
but anyway, uh, Stu says, demons that could kill and
possess every man, woman and child end quote, and every
non binary person too. Damn it, Star Trek get woke
already now, he says, Ah, my eye, I'm not supposed

(56:31):
to get knives in it. All those people screaming about it,
I was like, don't put it in. Yeah, don't don't
put the knife in your eye? Yeah, like, why are
they so shocked? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (56:45):
I was impressed the lady that he did both eyes,
you know, yeah, should the one lady both eyes? Like,
it's impressive. You know the pain, you know how bad
it hurts the first time, it's gonna hurt again.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Quote a science so advanced it might as well be magic. Ugh,
get a new cliche already. Oh look spot Kirk, queer
baiting haw droll. If these writers had any balls, they'd
have them have a three way with lawn. But they
are all caps cowards.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
I agree, I agree. I think it's I think it's
time for thruble trek.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
I will say I did love that scene at the
end when she's like he's like, oh, dance lessons and
she's like, oh no, the mind meld and he's like
like a steel trap. That's very It felt like Kirk
to me. It felt good. I liked it.

Speaker 1 (57:48):
It didn't quite feel like Kirk to me, but also
I didn't like the implications of it that, like, I
don't know, it felt a little non consensual. Suddenly Kirk
has all these memories.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Of Yeah, sure, that's what the that's what the thing is.
I mean, that's why it's so personal to do mind
meld and why it's a little weird they do it
so often in current trek, Like it's supposed to be
kind of a weighty thing to do because you're giving
someone all of your memories or give them access to
all of your memories.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I I uh read too much stuff and watch too
much stuff where there are telepathic issues, like because I
don't I don't remember if it's Star Trek. There are
such a thing as mental blocks that they can put
up around certain tha.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Yeah, they've talked about that in like older track.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah, I read in Discovery or if it was like
a great professor X thing. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
I think they can, like with practice, they can guide
how much of themselves are sharing and stuff like that.
So maybe that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
Or if they were like melding in spots like dude,
check this shit out.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
I say, maybe it was a bit of a voyeurism thing.
It's like, I'm only sharing what I want to share,
but check out these danceless in files.

Speaker 1 (59:04):
It's terrible. You can dress this up as much with
as much technobabble as you want, the solution will still
shoot something twice. I get the use of it here,
but can sci fi fantasy shows stop doing this plot
device of characters being stuck in a not nexus illusory illusory?

(59:27):
I can't say that word idealized life they have to
break out of to save the day. Titans did it,
Wheel of Time did it? Hell? This? This actual season
of Strange New Worlds arguably did a variation on it
with the Trellain episode. It's a bit old, especially since
everybody's idealized life pretty much goes the same way of
domestic bliss with hypothetical kids. Everyone's a goddamn breeder in

(59:50):
these scenarios. Oh and stop ending shows with flashboards to
pretty much the same thing looking at you, Discovery Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Pike's immediate reaction to his girlfriend turning into a statue
was a bit subdued. Seemed a little bored to me.
In fact, everyone kind of undersells this. I know there's
some ambiguity about what Bettel's actual state is now, but
functionally she might as well be dead and Pike isn't
even being told to take some time off to come
to terms with it. Question eight. Yeah, question for you guys,

(01:00:23):
what does George Kirk actually do on this show?

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
The second person? Wait, I was gonna say that wasn't earlier.
That was a different email, right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
What's this reason for being a semi recurring character. This
guy's going to canonically die in a couple of years time,
like seven years too, and he feels extremely underdeveloped so far.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Yeah, he's just there to keep Uh. Is Paul Wesley
his name right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Paul Wesley is Kirk Jim Kirk.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
Oh, I thought they were the same guy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
George Kirk because his brother or Sam Kirk, George Sam Kirk.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
But Stue didn't message with me and say I accidentally
refer to Sam Kirk as George Kirk in my email,
which I think works out is proving the point I
was making about him as a character.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Yeah, I got I gotta say. This is my face blindness.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
They're different actors.

Speaker 1 (01:01:19):
Yes, that was a question, Yes they are. They're different actors.

Speaker 2 (01:01:24):
I thought they were the same actor with a mustache.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
No, they were in the original series.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I know. That's why I thought that, And then my
face blindness prevented me from ever recognizing George as his own,
his own person.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Yeah, I mean it's yeah, it's hilarious and people might
think you're you're being an asshole here, but you're not.
Like I've no, I grew up, you know, I have
severe like I have severe face blindness, Like I don't know,
I don't get people's faces all the time. And I
just thought Paul was doing a really good job. Yeah.
I have watched you per two to know who you

(01:02:00):
were talking to so many times.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Oh yeah, people, I'm good at it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Walk walk up to you'd be like man and like,
y'all are hugging and shit, and I'm like, I'm noticing,
you're not, like you're just listening and just like nodding, and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah, yeah, I'm I'm I'm good at it. I'm good
at that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I didn't know it was face blindness for a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Yeah, No, it's really bad face blindness. I mean, like
it's not like I can't recognize people once I know
them well, but like sometimes characters and movies and stuff,
it takes me. It's really hard for me to lock
them down sometimes. Yeah, and George hasn't be on the
show that much, and so I really did think he
was Paul Wesley with a mustache. Yeah, and like, now
that I'm saying it, I'm like, that's dumb. I can

(01:02:41):
think about their faces and I can imagine that they're different,
but like I just thought they were. He was doing
a good job of acting like a different attitude and
different voice.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
No, Sam has been on the show since the beginning.
And yeah, I remember you know he has darker hair
as well. But uh, yeah, no, I don't know what
Sam Kirk is doing on this show.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Yeah, he's never been He's been very underplayed, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
He's never done anything.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Yeah. I feel like in the first season he like
was a little more active.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Yeah, I do too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
I remember a couple of episodes where he like had
some stuff to do.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
You know who else was more active in season one?
Who's that Himmer? Yes? I miss him?

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
I miss him?

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Er I said that last week. I didn't. I said
I miss the blind and Dorian engineers. I think what
I said.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
Yeah, that's what that is what you said. That's we
can add. I couldn't pull his name either. It's been
a while.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Yeah, all right, Stu continues, Uh, as fast as you
want to go. No, we don't need everyone evolving into salamanders.
I'll never get past what was it Threshold? Was that
the name of that episode?

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Yeah, that's the episode.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
So that was the finale on paper and in a
lot of execution is good. I like the visual of
sky Gowan. It was cool, and they got the VESDA
thing resolved. It's just the full blown quasi supernatural, nuanced
literal good versus literal evil and chosen One stuff was
not a very interesting way to go about it to me.
And like I said before, while Batela is a cool character,

(01:04:11):
she's not really been around enough for me to be
really happy seeing most of the regulars take a backseat
to her being the big hero and doing and I
am all the Jedi from Rise of Skywalker speaking. I
don't even know what that is speaking.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Ohays, Yeah, it's the Right of Skywalker last big last
moment thing.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Oh god, they do that shit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Yeah, well it's it's like I mean, spoiler alert. Yeah,
and I guess you don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Probably I went through a period of caring and then
I stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Yeah, Wren goes up against is that her name? Ray?
Ray goes up against the Rag, goes up against Palpatine,
And there's all these like dark forces behind him and
it's just her, but she like has the power of
like all the like a bunch of other Jedi from
the previous series. They're like forced ghosts are there. They

(01:05:04):
all sort of joined forces to aid her in her
like struggle against evil. In the last little so Ray
has to fight Palpatine.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Oh it's Qui gone, Qui back.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Yeah, I think Qui gon. I think Qui Gon's back
quite quite quite Quie gone back? All right, I don't
know why. Sounded like backstreets back.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Well she called on everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Yeah, good Dave, good job you got there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Yeah. Speaking of which, Yeah, could we have had something
a little more exciting for the standoff than instant wins
Superpowers at least had to fist fight with Golden cot
in a fire.

Speaker 2 (01:05:48):
Exactly. I needed that, and I needed Pike being there
to matter, Like, yeah, I don't know, it just and
the only reason it mattered is because it required two
people to walk through the thing. That's the only reason
it like kind of matter. But they didn't really even
focus on that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
It was weird, man, And once they got in Benga
in there, he just kind of shoved him in a
different dimension and we never really saw him doing anything again.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Yeah, because they wanted it just to be you know,
but they needed Ambinga, I guess, to get Pike out
of there because two people have to leave. These are
the things I'm thinking about while they say that it
takes two people to cross the threshold thing, and I'm like, oh,
because that's why these that's I was like, that's why
they did this a Benga thing in general, because they
needed But it was just such didn't they never like

(01:06:34):
played that through, you know what I mean, Like they
didn't go like, Okay, we needed I need someone else
to cross the threshold to leave the temple and like
Mbinga's there and they leave together, like, but it just
didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Yeah, Stu says Gamble Vezda just really did stupid villain
things like not kill everyone from the Enterprise the first
chance it got. I'm not gonna review season three as
a whole, because I think we all know where the
problems with it lay and with them have a shot
for already. We can only hope they maybe realized they
had to change things up on their own, though puppet

(01:07:06):
teaser announcement does kind of dampen that hope.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
I have not met I have.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
I mean, I've seen people online, but I haven't seen
a lot of Star Trek fans who were happy about
the puppet thing.

Speaker 2 (01:07:20):
Yeah, I am reserving judgment on the puppet thing because
I also feel like it's more the silly bullshit that
has made Strange New Worlds worse. Yeah, but I do
one of I do love Angel, and that puppet episode
is really important to me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
So I am just like, please, Strange New World stop
doing Buffy and Angel shit.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Hmmm, yeah, I hear that, because that's what you don't
need to be Buffy and Angel.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
That's what Patel's thing is. Hmmm, that's exactly what it is.
Remembered the whole thing about, like the ancient Watchers, the
first the Shamans who created the first Watcher and put
all like the genetic codes of good fighting into her
so that she could fight all the e that's why
the Slayers are chosen well in genetic codes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:04):
It was like dark spirits like they do, like evil
spirits into her and stuff. But yeah, that's I feel
like that's a bit of a stretch. That's just like
them giving her superpowers and this is also her gaining
superpowers through its some sort of weird means. But yeah,
there's definitely like her having to stand guard forever and

(01:08:25):
sacrifice herself. Reminds me of Buffy Season two where Angel
has to like has to go to close the portal
and stop the apocalypse or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Like this, there's definitely like shades of all that stuff
in here in a way that isn't normally Star Trek.
It's not what I think of when I think of
Star Trek. And like, I understand that Star Trek is
trying to evolve, and I want it to. I want
it to evolve and change. But there are other shows
that are doing such interesting things that I think Star

(01:08:55):
Trek could be doing. Watch an Alien Earth right now.
I mean again, it's just freaking Noah Holly should have
done Star Trek, and it would have. I want to
jump to that alternate universe where Noah Holly got to
do his Star Trek show.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
I haven't watched any of it yet, but did you
see Foundation got renewed for a season four.

Speaker 2 (01:09:11):
No, I don't know anything about Foundation.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Uh. That is based on an Isaac Asimov series and
it's a it's a show on Apple and I've heard
really good things. I'm check it out soon. It's very
very much like Epic Spaceship anyway, Uh, Stu says, do
do do do do? I personally just hope that we

(01:09:34):
get that sidebox conflict. They seem to tease all the
way back in season one, even if they'd have to
be pretty creative with the writing to make that work.
So him showing up in Final Frontier as an unknown
to the crew makes sense now, Stu, Dude, the fucking
producers just walk back to the sidebox shit at the

(01:09:55):
At the panel, they just said something to the effect of,
we never said Sybok was coming. We might see something else,
you know that is a result of Cybock. We never
said Sybok was going to be coming on the show,
So I'm pissed about that. On the other hand, I
don't know when they could have introduced Sybok on the

(01:10:16):
show in the flesh, because Jim Kirk is always on
the fucking ship.

Speaker 2 (01:10:25):
Yeah, it does seem the whole like him having a
brother was such a secret, So yeah, I mean like
they could do something with it where like Spock leaves
the ship for an episode and encounters his brother or something.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
But yeah, yeah, I don't know, man, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Yeah, well, thanks to for the email, Thank.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
You, buddy, Thank everybody, all of you guys send us
a lot of stuff here this week, and I am
humbled by your attention to our show this week.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Yeah, it's really nice to get get some feedback and
know other people out there listening, and uh, as much
as you know. There's some some disagreement which I love honestly,
but it's it's nice here people don't think we hate
the show. Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Don't want them to think that I have a naughty gob.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
I mean, I hope they continue to think you have
a naughty gob.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
And I realize it sounds like like a knotted gob.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Oh you do have one of those? Uh, Joel Untrue
Just every week say something, say something terrible about you
and then say sorry, show's over. You can't can't rebutt it,

(01:11:50):
micro Dix unite.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
All right, all right man, uh Joe Untrue, live long,
prosper all that shit.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
Yeah, I'll even go one and do one for Effie
plank on a clip, eat a dick or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
The fuck she says, plank on a clit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
Yeah, I like it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
I like it always a good time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
That's uh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
All right, guys, we'll be back saying here on Sergeant Universe.
Hopefully we'll do a good news episode soon.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Yeah. Hey, you can talk about sweet.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
And if there's a various feedbacks that come in following
this this episode. If you just want to make fun
of me for thinking those two guys are the same person,
I'm okay with that. But it is it is a
real condition that I have not been diagnosed for, but
I think I have.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
Yeah, so you also can't tell the difference between an
eagle and a duck. All right, Jill Untrue, livelong, ID
and Prosper.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
Thank you for listening to the Star Trek Universe podcast,
a Stranded Panda production.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
If you'd like to hear more from David C.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Robertson, check out the DC on Screen podcast or malagus
dot tv for his web videos. If you'd like to
hear more from Matthew Carroll, check out the Marvel Cinematic
Universe podcast or listen to his music. Just search for
Matthew Carroll anywhere you get music.