December 31, 2024 • 33 mins
Meet the man behind Nokia's phenomenal success in India during the telecom revolution of the late 1990s. Chandan Chatarjee joins us for a riveting conversation about building markets from scratch, navigating complex business landscapes, and transforming challenges into opportunities.In this episode, Chandan takes us through his remarkable journey from the Tata Group to becoming a key architect of Nokia's unprecedented growth in India.
With candid storytelling and rich insights, he reveals how Nokia tackled fierce competition, managed relationships with service providers, and overcame numerous obstacles to become a market leader.But this isn't just a story about past successes. Chandan shares his fascinating transition to the Nordic region, where he discovered a unique work culture and startup ecosystem that captured his imagination. Now an active investor and mentor to startups across the Nordics and India, he offers valuable perspectives on what makes the Nordic startup environment so special and why government support is crucial for fostering innovation.
Looking toward the future, Chandan explains his bullish stance on healthcare technology and why he believes it's poised for significant growth. The conversation wraps up with our signature "Dil Se Questionnaire," where he opens up about his career inspirations, shares his go-to book for wisdom, and reveals the best career advice that shaped his journey.
Whether you're an entrepreneur, business leader, or simply curious about the intersection of technology, culture, and business, this episode offers valuable lessons from one of industry's most experienced voices.
With candid storytelling and rich insights, he reveals how Nokia tackled fierce competition, managed relationships with service providers, and overcame numerous obstacles to become a market leader.But this isn't just a story about past successes. Chandan shares his fascinating transition to the Nordic region, where he discovered a unique work culture and startup ecosystem that captured his imagination. Now an active investor and mentor to startups across the Nordics and India, he offers valuable perspectives on what makes the Nordic startup environment so special and why government support is crucial for fostering innovation.
Looking toward the future, Chandan explains his bullish stance on healthcare technology and why he believes it's poised for significant growth. The conversation wraps up with our signature "Dil Se Questionnaire," where he opens up about his career inspirations, shares his go-to book for wisdom, and reveals the best career advice that shaped his journey.
Whether you're an entrepreneur, business leader, or simply curious about the intersection of technology, culture, and business, this episode offers valuable lessons from one of industry's most experienced voices.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Startup Still Sale podcast. Thank you for
turning he was a favorite like subscribe on YouTube or
LinkedIn and to give us a feat. Hope you enjoy
this episode. Hello everyone, welcome to a brand new episode
of Startups Still Say. This is Anthony Prakash as always
your host for the show, and today I'm honored to
have Chandan Charatejy on the show. Chandon and I met
(00:24):
probably a couple of months ago in Bangalore at the
TIA Summit and Shandon was super kind enough to actually
moderate the panel that I was on. We hit it off.
I was super impressed with Chandon's background and what he's
accomplished and accomplishing both at past, present in future. So
Chandon's going to be an awesome guest for us to
(00:45):
learn about, you know, what he's accomplished with companies like Nokia,
his move from India to the Nordics, and what he's
currently doing, which is to help a lot of startups
as an investor, as a board members, as a mentor.
So children, first of all, super happy to have you
on the show, and I'm excited for our conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Welcome, Thank you, Thank you, Anthony, and really nice to
be in this show. Thank you for inviting me, and
as you were very warm and generous with the introduction,
I hope I'm really looking forward to having a good,
nice chat over here.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Perfect so Chandon. For people who don't know you, why
don't you give us a quick rundown of you know,
where you started your career and you know, how did
you move from, say, the large corporation that is not
here where you almost spent twenty plus years to kind
of what you're doing today. Can you give us a
(01:43):
quick rundown and we love itsly double click on all
those components.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Right, No, thanks, thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You know, maybe we'll step back a bit as we
talk about my career. Actually, I grew up in India
with my father being in a transferable job, moved around
India and you know, almost every two years, so I
kind of schooled in eight different schools, so the twelve
years of my schooling and then yeah, after my engineering
(02:12):
and an NBA degree, I started my career with the
House of Tatas to work for a short while with
it c and then came Nokia into India, which was
kind of a very very pivotal change which changed my
career and I think one of the things which I
sort of look back and see and you use the
(02:32):
word already, Anthony, you said pioneering. I've had a very
pioneering sort of assignments in whichever company I've been. Like
when I was at the Tata I started in the
coffee trading desk where I was helping the team with
trade finance and deal structuring, and then I moved to
the first India's.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
First aqua culture project, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So these were some first and then when I joined Nokia,
it was you know, it was a company which was
sort of at the cusp of change in terms of
what was happening with telecoms, you know, the deregulation that
India was going to and Nokia itself as a company
was a challenger, you know, which had come into the
space where you know, they were the established ones like
(03:19):
Siemens and Ericsson and you know, all the not loose
and everybody else.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
But Nokia was a sort of new kid in town.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So you know, from both angles, this was a really
really huge change that we were driving.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, so how did you I mean, you mentioned Tata,
you mentioned pioneer. Uh, do you think all these things
happened by chance or you you went looking for these changes.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I you know, I have to say after the
tatas and the itc roles, I was looking for a change.
But I wouldn't say joining Nokia was completely well thought.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Through and planned and everything else.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Uh, there is definitely an element of serendipity that happened,
you know. So they had Hunter picked me because they
wanted somebody of a particular profile in that location, which
was Kolkara back in those days. And you know, I
joined a technology business where you know, the company was
sort of on a rapid growth, you know, thirty a year,
(04:22):
was growing and India was going through a deregulation. So
can you imagine, you know, yeah, joining a company. I mean,
think about telephony in India. You had to wait average
of four to six years to get a telephone line.
And when I launched the first GSM telephone network, you
effectively brought them down to zero.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, fascinating. Yeah, I mean I still remember the days.
You know, I used to live in Chennai, That's where
I grew up and in our street, our house was
one of two houses which actually had a telephone line,
right telephone, So people in our street used to give
our number to whoever their relatives were. They will give
(05:05):
us a call and they will call after ten minutes
and we will run and get whoever's off the street
to bring in.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And speaking absolutely, I think only people in our times
would remember what a Pepe call is. You know, there
was a terminology called PEP, So you have to call
the person. Yeah, and that's when your time starts.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So you're bringing back my childhood memories.
And I mean speaking of Nokia as well. You know
I have super phone memories in Nokia. I mean, I
must say Nokia was not my first phone. I had another.
I mean, I think it was one of the alcatil
ones which my dad handed down to me. That was
(05:46):
my I mean, and again for those those listening here,
I mean people these days, my daughter who is in
middle school wants a phone. She has a phone right now.
Back in the day, my first phone was I got
when I joined my first job, right, I mean, that's
when I got my first cell phone. And I still
have super fund memories of my six three one zero.
(06:07):
I know that was not the most popular model. The
three three one zero was like by far the most
popular model. What how was that, you know, just even
bringing that into the market touch and then for I
mean it was almost like a new category of such, right,
I mean to bring to the Indian market. I mean,
what do you remember from those early days of you know,
(06:30):
just trying to break those shackles.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So, so a number of things, Anthony, which led to
some of these decisions.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
You know. So when when we launched Nokia.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And India in nineteen ninety five, I think we had
all of two models.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
There was a high end model and then you know, I.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Think it was called the nineteen twenty twenty twenty one ten,
you know, I remember twenty one ten and the twenty twenty.
You know, they were the hard brick like phones, you know,
the big phones such, that's what they were. And there
were not too many models, so you know, GSM was
there and then we sort of kind of sized down
from there onward.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
But you know, also the whole.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Telephone import or the mobile phone import instrument was subject
to very high level of duties.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So you know, one of the.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Things I remember in my pioneering years was doing not
only work with the market in terms of developing it.
You know, one of the things that happened in India
and not many people realize is that we leap frog.
We had pickport and we went into GSM. Most other
markets went through an analog base of mobile telephony, which
just we just simply leap prog did because we were
(07:43):
late in the game just as well. But what that
did was that the phones manufacturing and the import were
subject to huge duty, which meant that we were getting
a lot of phones through the black market. And we
worked with the govern and very closely to reduce the
duty but also then to bring price which is ten
(08:05):
which you mentioned, which would be right for the Indian market. So,
you know, pioneering in both directions from the government side,
working with them to get the customs duty to manageable level.
And what we made a case to the government was that, look,
so much of it is coming to the black market
(08:26):
that you know you're losing out on the revenue. If
you reduce the revenue, if you reduce the tariff, we
will bring all of this so your overall netwood increase
and therefore the total collection would be higher.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, which is what.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's incredible. I mean I feel that,
I mean, at a certain point. I mean, you know,
you you almost had the largest market share amongst the
cell phones, right, I.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Mean by far, by far.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, exactly. So, so how long did that take in
your recollection channel? You said ninety five, you came in there.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
So it's an incredible thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I mean, Nokia became a sort of known brand in
the mobile teleiphany around ninety three ninety four. And think
about it, Anthony, in nineteen ninety seven, Nokia was the
world's fifth most precious brand four years flat. I think
it also had to do a lot with the industry
(09:24):
because the telephony business was just growing, growing at a phenomenal
pace anywhere.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
In the world. But I think an incredibly great job.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
You know, people talk about the Noca interpace on the
robust whatever. It just led to, you know, incredible growth
that I still remember ninety seven, we were the fifth
most valuable brand.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
That's that's great. And so was Nokia India a separate
entity or you still had a lot of support and
kind of investments coming in from the mothership.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
If you want, Oh yes, oh yes, I mean we
were a wholly owned subsidiary of the mothership. In fact,
one of the things in the initial years, which was
difficult was to make for India.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Even couldn't customize the advertisements mostly was global probably adaptable
language at best. So yeah, the mothership was the dominant thing.
I think all of this changed and pivoted when the
new telecom policy came in line and the new set
of licenses, you know, the Pan India licenses came when
(10:36):
the market.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Started to expand.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think that's when the real action started.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, yeah, I still remember. I mean, yes, Nokia was dominating.
There were so many different models around to early two thousands,
and there was a time I think this was the
first foray of the Alliance group of companies into the
cell phone, right, I mean, so they choose, if I'm
(11:02):
not wrong, they chose C d M A instead of GSM,
which was the Alliance phones. I mean, how did do
you do? You remember anything from how Nokia reacted to
that entry.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
So very well, very well entry. We you know, we
were in these GSM domain. So from a technology choices perspective,
you know, we bought a very hard battle to try
to do to convince people to take the GSM, which
was the more market driven, more commercially viable, but of course,
(11:37):
Reliance had their own reason for choosing CDMA.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So it was a loss both in terms.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Of infrastructure, but also in terms of mobile phones.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Nokia wasn't making that much CDM a phone. Yes, we
were mostly strong on the GSM. Yeah, so yeah, it
was a loss.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Okay, loss for I mean in the sense for Nokia
not to venture into there. I see, Okay, okay, got it.
So from back then to I mean you're no longer
associated with Nokia, to what you've seen gone on with
the company and where things are with smartphones and all
(12:15):
of that, I mean, what do you think, you know,
in terms of approach, at least from an India perspective,
Nokia could have done differently, you.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Know, the whole I mean, it's not just an India case.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think, yeah, the noble case, the whole exit of
the business, that's right. I think if anything, it's lesser known.
The Nokia brand is probably still the strongest in India. Yeah,
so you still have the you know, when you see
the Nokia phone, they're not really Nokia, they're just not
(12:50):
your branded.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Their OEMs to be behind it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But yeah, so what happened, of course, is a story
of technology.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know, dominance and collapse, so you.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Know, the whole Apple and the whole system Android. Sorry, yeah,
farlamentally your business. So in that sense it killed a
certain part of the business. But today no Care is
also quite strong and research into.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah yeah, so let's maybe shift gears a little bit. Right,
So you started off with the tatars you did, I
t C, you did, nock here and of course, uh
the stint with Nokia to Q from India to work
(13:47):
in the Nordics, right, I mean, how how how is
that culture change for you working from say a subsidiary
to kind of working in the mothership I mean, and
and giving you a point on uh, you know, the
in four years it became a super popular brand. I mean,
I'm sure things were running at like two hundred miles
an hour while during that hot period, if you will,
(14:11):
of the Hockey state growth. So I'm sure you have
a lot of great stories and case studies that that
you've learned from that you're applying to. So, I mean,
any any nuggets of wisdom that you can share on
things that you learned during that launch and that rapid
growth that you actually were so close to the.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Headquarters, right, I went to the headquarters only in two
thousand and six. So you know, before I moved out
of India fairly early, okay, and I did quite a
few stints around the world, you know, I see.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, So in a way, you know, as I said.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Going thirty percent a year, and I was asked to
replicate what I've done in India, rapid growth, go and cetat,
set up a mission, set up of course, the people
up the operation. So I did that in a number
of countries like Taiwan and what on. So that rapid
growth was sort of you know, go to a country,
(15:15):
you know, apply the same model that you've done, you know,
work through the same things, set it.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Up, and there's one set of things.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But then, like you said, and then you Nocia went
through various phases, so you know, the whole phenomenal exponential growth,
then the tech bubble burst and then started you know,
the sort of slow decline and decay. And I think,
you know, by the time the second financial crisis, the
first financial crisis two thousand and eight, I think the
(15:44):
things were beginning to tear at the scenes in.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
So, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Learning journey, you know, in every phase the exponential growth,
but also the very difficult times where uh, you know,
I was in some I was in a very diribitual
position in NSN where I was part of the management team,
where we.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
All most bank bank, so very very close.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
To the Okay, yeah, I mean these are all I mean,
we we all have our ups and downs, and you know,
before we hit rock bottom, I mean, you know, how
we come back up is is always a fascinating story.
So sticking to your move to the Nordics, I mean,
after Nokia, looks like, you know, you've taken a keen
(16:35):
interest in the whole startup ecosystem. And I mean since then,
even today, you've been associated with a bunch of startups.
How did how did that shift happen from a large
corporate startups?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, you know, absolutely, Anthony. And one of the things
which I think I was very fortunate, even within the
large corporate I was associated with some small companies. Like
you know, we did some M and A transactions. So
we bought an I TV company called Merio in US
around I was part of the team was scaling up
(17:14):
their sales.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Then a few years later we bought a.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Services company, a very small services company in Europe. And
again you know, integration of the company and how capab
that's uh go to market call. So I was, first
of all, was also a very entrepreneurial, very low overhead
nodding sculpture, you know, do things and so on kind
(17:41):
of thing. But also within that I had a lot
of the small company exposure. So being part of a
small company or a startup or a scale up war.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Not new to me. I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So once my corporates came to an end, I said,
you know the to what I want to do with
the future very naturally.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, okay, And I mean do you kind of
pick and choose which sort of startups you work with
or what is your operating model if you will, in
terms of you know, how you engaged startups right now?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
So having been in the tech business, and think one
of the things that comes naturally to me, and I
think even the deals that come to me tend to
be a tech base. But if you if you know
one of the things that if I choose, then I
sort of choose between tech help help tech that's that's
(18:40):
that's an area which I have a lot of personal
interests and.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Our investments also are in that area.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So kind of an underlying tech platform. These days, that's
probably not saying much. Even food delivery is a tech platform.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah yeah, So I mean, given that you are in
the Nordics, I mean, you know, I've I've maybe made
one trip there. I have seen I have seen much
like anywhere else in the world. I've been super impressed
by the amount of startups that are popping up all
(19:20):
over the place. You know, whether it's in Sweden or
it's in Oslo or anywhere. What what is it that
you are seeing? You know, change in the sense obviously
there's needs to be a lot of how do I say,
partnership between both the education institutions plus the plus the
(19:45):
startup ecosystem, plus the government helping out. I mean, do
you do you do you see that sort of climate change?
I mean, you know, having been in the TI Summit,
both you and I we we did see a lot
of these plays yers there as well. You know, they
want to come back and invest in India. They're saying, oh,
we're creating this ecosystem in culture and climate for you
(20:07):
to make it super easy for you guys to come
over there and begin your startup. I mean, obviously every
country is sort of going after the same Silicon valley
sort of a model, if you will, I mean having
been so close to it. I mean, what is unique
about you know, that startup ecosystem. I mean, maybe give
(20:29):
us like a pitch, I guess for why why should
we should for the ardicts?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, so, Anthony, I think it's kind of very
widely known and well known. I mean, if you look
at the standard of living, quality of life, it probably
cops in most surveys, quality of life, stand up living,
(20:58):
quality of education.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Education is another very very strong point.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And then if you even look at some of the
innovation in disease. You know, if you look at the
large companies carries involvo the world, that's one set.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
But even if you look at the modern.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Tech Spotify, Angry Bird, all of.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
These in the Nordics. So Nordics does have a few things. Really.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Which is going well is the education, so very high
stem education, the generation which makes you know the people.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Very highly.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
The second part, which is very important, particularly in an
entrepreneurial journey, is that in the Nordic environment, risk taking
is relatively easy because you know, you do have a
strong safety net. If you fail, you don't fall you
are caught by a net, so you know, go ahead
(21:57):
and experiment.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
You know, And and if you look at it, Anthony,
since we graduated from schools and colleges, I think the
whole world has moved towards them, right. I mean, young
people when we graduated wanted to consulting, you know, investment,
banking and things like that. But today I think the
(22:19):
most sort of the jobs and campuses are either going
join a startup or you do a startupout your own.
Entrepreneurial entrepreneurship has some center see and you put that
in the Nordic context where you have a very strong
safety he does foster a very strong innovation and ban.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's fascinating. I mean, it's so important, right,
I mean, you know, to your point, I mean, I
was thinking about how many of us, including myself, don't
venture into that thinking about or worrying about the risk
that is involved, right, I mean, and the fear of
falling down if you will, then how that might impact
(23:00):
your career. And that is a super important point. And
I'm assuming there's both private sector and the government involved
in giving you that safety nect.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Right Chandon, absolutely, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I think, you know, the the private sector of course,
provides you the opportunities. And one of the other things
which which is also great in Nordic is the cooperation
between let's say the startup or the corporate and the university.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
So you know, good university education. But if you go
back and look at.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Many of these startups, they are all part of some
university PhD ecs, and you know how that has got.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Converted more commercial. And then it went on and on
and on.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
So very close to a California model, but a slightly
different manifestation.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, horses for courses, as
they say. So you've got to adapt to to where
you are. So give it that you've been in in tech.
I mean I think you've worn a marketing hat quite
a bit as well. I mean, so let's say, you know,
in today's world, from your viewpoint, as you look at
all the trends that are happening, right, let's say it's
(24:15):
AI and this week was a big week in quantum computing,
if you will, right, And and then this week as well,
you know, people are talking about, you know how regulation
is actually clamping down on small tech, right, I mean,
so in the Valley. If you look at some of
(24:35):
the venture capitalists dail effort to startups as small tech
if you will, and they were taking sides in the
recently concluded elections as well, right as to you know,
who is helping who is hurting that sort of thing.
What are some of the trends from your standpoint that
you're seeing with tech and you know where investments are happening,
(24:59):
any any anything that jumps to mind?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I think you know, some very basic generic things.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I mean, you know, if you were to just pick
the trends, if you do a Google search today, you'll
find AI data and all that. I mean you and
I said through investment committees, and you know it's the
second or the third sentence every startup wants to pitch.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, So so that's one side of it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Of course, it's going through a hype cycle like many
tech trends. There is no doubt, very strong substance in
AI and all that happening. But I think in general,
one of the things, if you see, is that the
tech proliferation in our lives is only going to be right,
and tech sort of manifests in everything. You know, it's
(25:51):
been a corporate thing moving into our daily lives. You know,
I mean think about the time when Bill Gates said
he wants we see in every home. When he's that
not many people believe that, but that's the way the
world has been for the last twenty years. And you know,
so the tech manifestation is trying to go, you know,
the IoT, every device linked. So that's one thing which
(26:15):
is a very general strong tech lead growth which you
will see whether it is you know, our day to
day lives, simple things like you know, banking is simple
things like your you know, daily services, all of this
would be very very so any investments which are sort
(26:37):
of supporting. So you look at data, you know, the
whole data center growth, that is something. It's you know,
we haven't even scratched the service when it's been largely
led by the big guys Google. But the manifestation of
this into our daily life will bring a completely different order.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
So when we talk about this is one side.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The other side of it is that if you look
at some generally trend, the world is getting older. The
world is getting especially the rich part of the world
is getting older. Past so health will be a very
big trend. So you combine tech can help kind of
leads you back to why Anthony I said in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I choose health and yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
So these are some of the trends that I see.
But of course, then you know, near a term, you
see a lot of these hype cycles.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, So Chan, I mean, let's move to
a section what I call is the they'll say question,
and I'm going to have you answer maybe four or
five questions rapid them in And I've not given you
any of these questions before. But the first thing that
comes to mind, right, So, you're a role model yourself,
given what you've accomplished in in your career. But did
(28:00):
you have a role model for you? I mean, anyone
you looked up to as as you were, you know,
peaking in your career.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Name one.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
But if I if you really cornered me to pick one, Anthony,
it would be Steve Jobs.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Okay, Okay, that's that's not a bad role model.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Well, you know, I mean for those who have worked
for him, probably they'll have a different thing to say.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, from the outside and it's super inspiring. Yeah yeah, perfect.
What's the best advice you've ever received?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Wow, don't look back.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Don't look back. That's that's don't look that is awesome. Yeah,
I mean, you know that's great. I I'll remember that
as well. I don't know if I I do a
good job of that myself, but you know it's easier
said than done, right, Yeah. So are you much of
a reader?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I am.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I I always have a pending list of books that
I have to go through. But okay, yeah, I like
to read as much as I can.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
But okay, any any favorite book that you keep going
back to?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Again?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
A tough one, Anthony, hard to pick one book? Okay,
so many books. But I would say, you know, one
book which influenced me a lot, me my leadership and
a lot of my thought, I think is Carol Dwa's Mindset.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Okay, very nice.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's a book which which really the lasting impression and
I kind of you know, pig parts of the book
and I read that over and over again.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Okay, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And the last question for you is you you might
have I mean, this might be a hard one for
you as well, given that you've you've pioneered so many places,
and you have a lot of memories. Any amongst your
top three memories, what what is in your career. I mean, what,
what do you think is your favorite memory that you
(30:03):
probably are super proud of as well?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Again, hard to pick one. And you know, if I
have to look back today, Anthony, you know, you know,
these things are always a moment in time. Yeah, but
when I look back, I think I would probably rate
the launching of the first GSM network. It's it's now
a hindsight thing. You know, at that moment, it didn't
feel that momentous. But you know, thirty first July nineteen
(30:29):
ninety five and we had the first YSM network launch
in India. Little did we think or anticipate the change
that we were bringing to this country.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
That.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, the last five years, it has fundamentally changed the landscape.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
In such a lot of way.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, I mean it's it's one for the humbling thought. Yeah, yeah,
I mean totally. I mean, you know, not many people
will realize that it is. It is literally changing changing history, right,
I mean, it's a moment in history, if you will.
I mean again, people think about nineteen forty seven and
all of that, because I mean, this changes the way
(31:06):
the path that the country is taking in terms of
you know, where it is in terms of the global
economy because connectivity was so important, right, So kudos to
you for that. I mean, and I'm glad I know
the person who did that for India, right, So so
super awesome channel.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
It was a big team.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But yeah, and like I said, Anthony, at that moment,
it didn't feel as significant. But when you look back
and think, you know, then it's kind of the whole
import of the whole situation.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, yeah, indeed, super cool chal it. So I'll let
you go with maybe one last question. You are in
a position where you can look back at a lot
of your struggles, wins and memories and advice these new
companies coming up, and you are aware of a lot
of these trends. So for any entrepreneur out there listening,
(32:01):
any any word of advice for someone who might be
starting off on that journey.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I think something very simple. You know, entrepreneurial journey is tough.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It's probably going to make every entrepreneur has his moments about.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Why did I do this? But on the other side,
you know, just believe in what you're doing and no shortcuts.
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
One of the things which many times I come across
in many of these discussions, you know, people get too
enamored by the big numbers and the big things that
are you know, prints of the world. Not everybody is
going to be a print. But at the same time,
you know, don't make money making your only motive. Just
(32:55):
believe in the thing that you're doing right that that's got.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
To be beautifully said Shandon. A wise words. So thank
you so much, so joun them first. Thank you for
taking the time amidst your super busy schedule. I'm glad
we were able to do this. I learned a ton,
really happy. Yeah, this perfect. I learned a ton myself
and hopefully people listening and watching will do the same.
(33:21):
Thanks so much again for joining us, Jandon, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Thank you, Anthony, goodbye bye,
This is the Startup Still Sale podcast. Thank you for
turning he was a favorite like subscribe on YouTube or
LinkedIn and to give us a feat. Hope you enjoy
this episode. Hello everyone, welcome to a brand new episode
of Startups Still Say. This is Anthony Prakash as always
your host for the show, and today I'm honored to
have Chandan Charatejy on the show. Chandon and I met
(00:24):
probably a couple of months ago in Bangalore at the
TIA Summit and Shandon was super kind enough to actually
moderate the panel that I was on. We hit it off.
I was super impressed with Chandon's background and what he's
accomplished and accomplishing both at past, present in future. So
Chandon's going to be an awesome guest for us to
(00:45):
learn about, you know, what he's accomplished with companies like Nokia,
his move from India to the Nordics, and what he's
currently doing, which is to help a lot of startups
as an investor, as a board members, as a mentor.
So children, first of all, super happy to have you
on the show, and I'm excited for our conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Welcome, Thank you, Thank you, Anthony, and really nice to
be in this show. Thank you for inviting me, and
as you were very warm and generous with the introduction,
I hope I'm really looking forward to having a good,
nice chat over here.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Perfect so Chandon. For people who don't know you, why
don't you give us a quick rundown of you know,
where you started your career and you know, how did
you move from, say, the large corporation that is not
here where you almost spent twenty plus years to kind
of what you're doing today. Can you give us a
(01:43):
quick rundown and we love itsly double click on all
those components.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Right, No, thanks, thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
You know, maybe we'll step back a bit as we
talk about my career. Actually, I grew up in India
with my father being in a transferable job, moved around
India and you know, almost every two years, so I
kind of schooled in eight different schools, so the twelve
years of my schooling and then yeah, after my engineering
(02:12):
and an NBA degree, I started my career with the
House of Tatas to work for a short while with
it c and then came Nokia into India, which was
kind of a very very pivotal change which changed my
career and I think one of the things which I
sort of look back and see and you use the
(02:32):
word already, Anthony, you said pioneering. I've had a very
pioneering sort of assignments in whichever company I've been. Like
when I was at the Tata I started in the
coffee trading desk where I was helping the team with
trade finance and deal structuring, and then I moved to
the first India's.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
First aqua culture project, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So these were some first and then when I joined Nokia,
it was you know, it was a company which was
sort of at the cusp of change in terms of
what was happening with telecoms, you know, the deregulation that
India was going to and Nokia itself as a company
was a challenger, you know, which had come into the
space where you know, they were the established ones like
(03:19):
Siemens and Ericsson and you know, all the not loose
and everybody else.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
But Nokia was a sort of new kid in town.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
So you know, from both angles, this was a really
really huge change that we were driving.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Yeah, so how did you I mean, you mentioned Tata,
you mentioned pioneer. Uh, do you think all these things
happened by chance or you you went looking for these changes.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, I you know, I have to say after the
tatas and the itc roles, I was looking for a change.
But I wouldn't say joining Nokia was completely well thought.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Through and planned and everything else.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Uh, there is definitely an element of serendipity that happened,
you know. So they had Hunter picked me because they
wanted somebody of a particular profile in that location, which
was Kolkara back in those days. And you know, I
joined a technology business where you know, the company was
sort of on a rapid growth, you know, thirty a year,
(04:22):
was growing and India was going through a deregulation. So
can you imagine, you know, yeah, joining a company. I mean,
think about telephony in India. You had to wait average
of four to six years to get a telephone line.
And when I launched the first GSM telephone network, you
effectively brought them down to zero.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, fascinating. Yeah, I mean I still remember the days.
You know, I used to live in Chennai, That's where
I grew up and in our street, our house was
one of two houses which actually had a telephone line,
right telephone, So people in our street used to give
our number to whoever their relatives were. They will give
(05:05):
us a call and they will call after ten minutes
and we will run and get whoever's off the street
to bring in.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And speaking absolutely, I think only people in our times
would remember what a Pepe call is. You know, there
was a terminology called PEP, So you have to call
the person. Yeah, and that's when your time starts.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So you're bringing back my childhood memories.
And I mean speaking of Nokia as well. You know
I have super phone memories in Nokia. I mean, I
must say Nokia was not my first phone. I had another.
I mean, I think it was one of the alcatil
ones which my dad handed down to me. That was
(05:46):
my I mean, and again for those those listening here,
I mean people these days, my daughter who is in
middle school wants a phone. She has a phone right now.
Back in the day, my first phone was I got
when I joined my first job, right, I mean, that's
when I got my first cell phone. And I still
have super fund memories of my six three one zero.
(06:07):
I know that was not the most popular model. The
three three one zero was like by far the most
popular model. What how was that, you know, just even
bringing that into the market touch and then for I
mean it was almost like a new category of such, right,
I mean to bring to the Indian market. I mean,
what do you remember from those early days of you know,
(06:30):
just trying to break those shackles.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
So, so a number of things, Anthony, which led to
some of these decisions.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
You know. So when when we launched Nokia.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
And India in nineteen ninety five, I think we had
all of two models.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
There was a high end model and then you know, I.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Think it was called the nineteen twenty twenty twenty one ten,
you know, I remember twenty one ten and the twenty twenty.
You know, they were the hard brick like phones, you know,
the big phones such, that's what they were. And there
were not too many models, so you know, GSM was
there and then we sort of kind of sized down
from there onward.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
But you know, also the whole.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Telephone import or the mobile phone import instrument was subject
to very high level of duties.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So you know, one of the.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Things I remember in my pioneering years was doing not
only work with the market in terms of developing it.
You know, one of the things that happened in India
and not many people realize is that we leap frog.
We had pickport and we went into GSM. Most other
markets went through an analog base of mobile telephony, which
just we just simply leap prog did because we were
(07:43):
late in the game just as well. But what that
did was that the phones manufacturing and the import were
subject to huge duty, which meant that we were getting
a lot of phones through the black market. And we
worked with the govern and very closely to reduce the
duty but also then to bring price which is ten
(08:05):
which you mentioned, which would be right for the Indian market. So,
you know, pioneering in both directions from the government side,
working with them to get the customs duty to manageable level.
And what we made a case to the government was that, look,
so much of it is coming to the black market
(08:26):
that you know you're losing out on the revenue. If
you reduce the revenue, if you reduce the tariff, we
will bring all of this so your overall netwood increase
and therefore the total collection would be higher.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Yeah, which is what.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's incredible. I mean I feel that,
I mean, at a certain point. I mean, you know,
you you almost had the largest market share amongst the
cell phones, right, I.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Mean by far, by far.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Yeah, exactly. So, so how long did that take in
your recollection channel? You said ninety five, you came in there.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
So it's an incredible thing, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
I mean, Nokia became a sort of known brand in
the mobile teleiphany around ninety three ninety four. And think
about it, Anthony, in nineteen ninety seven, Nokia was the
world's fifth most precious brand four years flat. I think
it also had to do a lot with the industry
(09:24):
because the telephony business was just growing, growing at a phenomenal
pace anywhere.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
In the world. But I think an incredibly great job.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
You know, people talk about the Noca interpace on the
robust whatever. It just led to, you know, incredible growth
that I still remember ninety seven, we were the fifth
most valuable brand.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
That's that's great. And so was Nokia India a separate
entity or you still had a lot of support and
kind of investments coming in from the mothership.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
If you want, Oh yes, oh yes, I mean we
were a wholly owned subsidiary of the mothership. In fact,
one of the things in the initial years, which was
difficult was to make for India.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah yeah, we.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Even couldn't customize the advertisements mostly was global probably adaptable
language at best. So yeah, the mothership was the dominant thing.
I think all of this changed and pivoted when the
new telecom policy came in line and the new set
of licenses, you know, the Pan India licenses came when
(10:36):
the market.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Started to expand.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I think that's when the real action started.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, yeah, I still remember. I mean, yes, Nokia was dominating.
There were so many different models around to early two thousands,
and there was a time I think this was the
first foray of the Alliance group of companies into the
cell phone, right, I mean, so they choose, if I'm
(11:02):
not wrong, they chose C d M A instead of GSM,
which was the Alliance phones. I mean, how did do
you do? You remember anything from how Nokia reacted to
that entry.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
So very well, very well entry. We you know, we
were in these GSM domain. So from a technology choices perspective,
you know, we bought a very hard battle to try
to do to convince people to take the GSM, which
was the more market driven, more commercially viable, but of course,
(11:37):
Reliance had their own reason for choosing CDMA.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So it was a loss both in terms.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Of infrastructure, but also in terms of mobile phones.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Nokia wasn't making that much CDM a phone. Yes, we
were mostly strong on the GSM. Yeah, so yeah, it
was a loss.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Okay, loss for I mean in the sense for Nokia
not to venture into there. I see, Okay, okay, got it.
So from back then to I mean you're no longer
associated with Nokia, to what you've seen gone on with
the company and where things are with smartphones and all
(12:15):
of that, I mean, what do you think, you know,
in terms of approach, at least from an India perspective,
Nokia could have done differently, you.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Know, the whole I mean, it's not just an India case.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think, yeah, the noble case, the whole exit of
the business, that's right. I think if anything, it's lesser known.
The Nokia brand is probably still the strongest in India. Yeah,
so you still have the you know, when you see
the Nokia phone, they're not really Nokia, they're just not
(12:50):
your branded.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
Their OEMs to be behind it.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But yeah, so what happened, of course, is a story
of technology.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
You know, dominance and collapse, so you.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Know, the whole Apple and the whole system Android. Sorry, yeah,
farlamentally your business. So in that sense it killed a
certain part of the business. But today no Care is
also quite strong and research into.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah yeah, so let's maybe shift gears a little bit. Right,
So you started off with the tatars you did, I
t C, you did, nock here and of course, uh
the stint with Nokia to Q from India to work
(13:47):
in the Nordics, right, I mean, how how how is
that culture change for you working from say a subsidiary
to kind of working in the mothership I mean, and
and giving you a point on uh, you know, the
in four years it became a super popular brand. I mean,
I'm sure things were running at like two hundred miles
an hour while during that hot period, if you will,
(14:11):
of the Hockey state growth. So I'm sure you have
a lot of great stories and case studies that that
you've learned from that you're applying to. So, I mean,
any any nuggets of wisdom that you can share on
things that you learned during that launch and that rapid
growth that you actually were so close to the.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Headquarters, right, I went to the headquarters only in two
thousand and six. So you know, before I moved out
of India fairly early, okay, and I did quite a
few stints around the world, you know, I see.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, So in a way, you know, as I said.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Going thirty percent a year, and I was asked to
replicate what I've done in India, rapid growth, go and cetat,
set up a mission, set up of course, the people
up the operation. So I did that in a number
of countries like Taiwan and what on. So that rapid
growth was sort of you know, go to a country,
(15:15):
you know, apply the same model that you've done, you know,
work through the same things, set it.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Up, and there's one set of things.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
But then, like you said, and then you Nocia went
through various phases, so you know, the whole phenomenal exponential growth,
then the tech bubble burst and then started you know,
the sort of slow decline and decay. And I think,
you know, by the time the second financial crisis, the
first financial crisis two thousand and eight, I think the
(15:44):
things were beginning to tear at the scenes in.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
So, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Learning journey, you know, in every phase the exponential growth,
but also the very difficult times where uh, you know,
I was in some I was in a very diribitual
position in NSN where I was part of the management team,
where we.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
All most bank bank, so very very close.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
To the Okay, yeah, I mean these are all I mean,
we we all have our ups and downs, and you know,
before we hit rock bottom, I mean, you know, how
we come back up is is always a fascinating story.
So sticking to your move to the Nordics, I mean,
after Nokia, looks like, you know, you've taken a keen
(16:35):
interest in the whole startup ecosystem. And I mean since then,
even today, you've been associated with a bunch of startups.
How did how did that shift happen from a large
corporate startups?
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, you know, absolutely, Anthony. And one of the things
which I think I was very fortunate, even within the
large corporate I was associated with some small companies. Like
you know, we did some M and A transactions. So
we bought an I TV company called Merio in US
around I was part of the team was scaling up
(17:14):
their sales.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Then a few years later we bought a.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Services company, a very small services company in Europe. And
again you know, integration of the company and how capab
that's uh go to market call. So I was, first
of all, was also a very entrepreneurial, very low overhead
nodding sculpture, you know, do things and so on kind
(17:41):
of thing. But also within that I had a lot
of the small company exposure. So being part of a
small company or a startup or a scale up war.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Not new to me. I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
So once my corporates came to an end, I said,
you know the to what I want to do with
the future very naturally.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, okay, And I mean do you kind of
pick and choose which sort of startups you work with
or what is your operating model if you will, in
terms of you know, how you engaged startups right now?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
So having been in the tech business, and think one
of the things that comes naturally to me, and I
think even the deals that come to me tend to
be a tech base. But if you if you know
one of the things that if I choose, then I
sort of choose between tech help help tech that's that's
(18:40):
that's an area which I have a lot of personal
interests and.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Our investments also are in that area.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
So kind of an underlying tech platform. These days, that's
probably not saying much. Even food delivery is a tech platform.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah yeah, So I mean, given that you are in
the Nordics, I mean, you know, I've I've maybe made
one trip there. I have seen I have seen much
like anywhere else in the world. I've been super impressed
by the amount of startups that are popping up all
(19:20):
over the place. You know, whether it's in Sweden or
it's in Oslo or anywhere. What what is it that
you are seeing? You know, change in the sense obviously
there's needs to be a lot of how do I say,
partnership between both the education institutions plus the plus the
(19:45):
startup ecosystem, plus the government helping out. I mean, do
you do you do you see that sort of climate change?
I mean, you know, having been in the TI Summit,
both you and I we we did see a lot
of these plays yers there as well. You know, they
want to come back and invest in India. They're saying, oh,
we're creating this ecosystem in culture and climate for you
(20:07):
to make it super easy for you guys to come
over there and begin your startup. I mean, obviously every
country is sort of going after the same Silicon valley
sort of a model, if you will, I mean having
been so close to it. I mean, what is unique
about you know, that startup ecosystem. I mean, maybe give
(20:29):
us like a pitch, I guess for why why should
we should for the ardicts?
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, so, Anthony, I think it's kind of very
widely known and well known. I mean, if you look
at the standard of living, quality of life, it probably
cops in most surveys, quality of life, stand up living,
(20:58):
quality of education.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Education is another very very strong point.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
And then if you even look at some of the
innovation in disease. You know, if you look at the
large companies carries involvo the world, that's one set.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
But even if you look at the modern.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Tech Spotify, Angry Bird, all of.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
These in the Nordics. So Nordics does have a few things. Really.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Which is going well is the education, so very high
stem education, the generation which makes you know the people.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Very highly.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
The second part, which is very important, particularly in an
entrepreneurial journey, is that in the Nordic environment, risk taking
is relatively easy because you know, you do have a
strong safety net. If you fail, you don't fall you
are caught by a net, so you know, go ahead
(21:57):
and experiment.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Why not?
Speaker 2 (21:59):
You know, And and if you look at it, Anthony,
since we graduated from schools and colleges, I think the
whole world has moved towards them, right. I mean, young
people when we graduated wanted to consulting, you know, investment,
banking and things like that. But today I think the
(22:19):
most sort of the jobs and campuses are either going
join a startup or you do a startupout your own.
Entrepreneurial entrepreneurship has some center see and you put that
in the Nordic context where you have a very strong
safety he does foster a very strong innovation and ban.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's fascinating. I mean, it's so important, right,
I mean, you know, to your point, I mean, I
was thinking about how many of us, including myself, don't
venture into that thinking about or worrying about the risk
that is involved, right, I mean, and the fear of
falling down if you will, then how that might impact
(23:00):
your career. And that is a super important point. And
I'm assuming there's both private sector and the government involved
in giving you that safety nect.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Right Chandon, absolutely, absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
I think, you know, the the private sector of course,
provides you the opportunities. And one of the other things
which which is also great in Nordic is the cooperation
between let's say the startup or the corporate and the university.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
So you know, good university education. But if you go
back and look at.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Many of these startups, they are all part of some
university PhD ecs, and you know how that has got.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
Converted more commercial. And then it went on and on
and on.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
So very close to a California model, but a slightly
different manifestation.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah yeah, I mean, you know, horses for courses, as
they say. So you've got to adapt to to where
you are. So give it that you've been in in tech.
I mean I think you've worn a marketing hat quite
a bit as well. I mean, so let's say, you know,
in today's world, from your viewpoint, as you look at
all the trends that are happening, right, let's say it's
(24:15):
AI and this week was a big week in quantum computing,
if you will, right, And and then this week as well,
you know, people are talking about, you know how regulation
is actually clamping down on small tech, right, I mean,
so in the Valley. If you look at some of
(24:35):
the venture capitalists dail effort to startups as small tech
if you will, and they were taking sides in the
recently concluded elections as well, right as to you know,
who is helping who is hurting that sort of thing.
What are some of the trends from your standpoint that
you're seeing with tech and you know where investments are happening,
(24:59):
any any anything that jumps to mind?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah, I think you know, some very basic generic things.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I mean, you know, if you were to just pick
the trends, if you do a Google search today, you'll
find AI data and all that. I mean you and
I said through investment committees, and you know it's the
second or the third sentence every startup wants to pitch.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Yeah, So so that's one side of it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Of course, it's going through a hype cycle like many
tech trends. There is no doubt, very strong substance in
AI and all that happening. But I think in general,
one of the things, if you see, is that the
tech proliferation in our lives is only going to be right,
and tech sort of manifests in everything. You know, it's
(25:51):
been a corporate thing moving into our daily lives. You know,
I mean think about the time when Bill Gates said
he wants we see in every home. When he's that
not many people believe that, but that's the way the
world has been for the last twenty years. And you know,
so the tech manifestation is trying to go, you know,
the IoT, every device linked. So that's one thing which
(26:15):
is a very general strong tech lead growth which you
will see whether it is you know, our day to
day lives, simple things like you know, banking is simple
things like your you know, daily services, all of this
would be very very so any investments which are sort
(26:37):
of supporting. So you look at data, you know, the
whole data center growth, that is something. It's you know,
we haven't even scratched the service when it's been largely
led by the big guys Google. But the manifestation of
this into our daily life will bring a completely different order.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
So when we talk about this is one side.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The other side of it is that if you look
at some generally trend, the world is getting older. The
world is getting especially the rich part of the world
is getting older. Past so health will be a very
big trend. So you combine tech can help kind of
leads you back to why Anthony I said in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
I choose health and yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
So these are some of the trends that I see.
But of course, then you know, near a term, you
see a lot of these hype cycles.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, yeah, perfect, So Chan, I mean, let's move to
a section what I call is the they'll say question,
and I'm going to have you answer maybe four or
five questions rapid them in And I've not given you
any of these questions before. But the first thing that
comes to mind, right, So, you're a role model yourself,
given what you've accomplished in in your career. But did
(28:00):
you have a role model for you? I mean, anyone
you looked up to as as you were, you know,
peaking in your career.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
Name one.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
But if I if you really cornered me to pick one, Anthony,
it would be Steve Jobs.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Okay, Okay, that's that's not a bad role model.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Well, you know, I mean for those who have worked
for him, probably they'll have a different thing to say.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yeah, from the outside and it's super inspiring. Yeah yeah, perfect.
What's the best advice you've ever received?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Wow, don't look back.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Don't look back. That's that's don't look that is awesome. Yeah,
I mean, you know that's great. I I'll remember that
as well. I don't know if I I do a
good job of that myself, but you know it's easier
said than done, right, Yeah. So are you much of
a reader?
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I am.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
I I always have a pending list of books that
I have to go through. But okay, yeah, I like
to read as much as I can.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
But okay, any any favorite book that you keep going
back to?
Speaker 3 (29:08):
Again?
Speaker 2 (29:08):
A tough one, Anthony, hard to pick one book? Okay,
so many books. But I would say, you know, one
book which influenced me a lot, me my leadership and
a lot of my thought, I think is Carol Dwa's Mindset.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Okay, very nice.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
That's a book which which really the lasting impression and
I kind of you know, pig parts of the book
and I read that over and over again.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Okay, beautiful.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And the last question for you is you you might
have I mean, this might be a hard one for
you as well, given that you've you've pioneered so many places,
and you have a lot of memories. Any amongst your
top three memories, what what is in your career. I mean, what,
what do you think is your favorite memory that you
(30:03):
probably are super proud of as well?
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Again, hard to pick one. And you know, if I
have to look back today, Anthony, you know, you know,
these things are always a moment in time. Yeah, but
when I look back, I think I would probably rate
the launching of the first GSM network. It's it's now
a hindsight thing. You know, at that moment, it didn't
feel that momentous. But you know, thirty first July nineteen
(30:29):
ninety five and we had the first YSM network launch
in India. Little did we think or anticipate the change
that we were bringing to this country.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
That.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Yeah, the last five years, it has fundamentally changed the landscape.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
In such a lot of way.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, I mean it's it's one for the humbling thought. Yeah, yeah,
I mean totally. I mean, you know, not many people
will realize that it is. It is literally changing changing history, right,
I mean, it's a moment in history, if you will.
I mean again, people think about nineteen forty seven and
all of that, because I mean, this changes the way
(31:06):
the path that the country is taking in terms of
you know, where it is in terms of the global
economy because connectivity was so important, right, So kudos to
you for that. I mean, and I'm glad I know
the person who did that for India, right, So so
super awesome channel.
Speaker 3 (31:23):
It was a big team.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
But yeah, and like I said, Anthony, at that moment,
it didn't feel as significant. But when you look back
and think, you know, then it's kind of the whole
import of the whole situation.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
Yeah, yeah, indeed, super cool chal it. So I'll let
you go with maybe one last question. You are in
a position where you can look back at a lot
of your struggles, wins and memories and advice these new
companies coming up, and you are aware of a lot
of these trends. So for any entrepreneur out there listening,
(32:01):
any any word of advice for someone who might be
starting off on that journey.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
I think something very simple. You know, entrepreneurial journey is tough.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
It's probably going to make every entrepreneur has his moments about.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Why did I do this? But on the other side,
you know, just believe in what you're doing and no shortcuts.
You know.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
One of the things which many times I come across
in many of these discussions, you know, people get too
enamored by the big numbers and the big things that
are you know, prints of the world. Not everybody is
going to be a print. But at the same time,
you know, don't make money making your only motive. Just
(32:55):
believe in the thing that you're doing right that that's got.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
To be beautifully said Shandon. A wise words. So thank
you so much, so joun them first. Thank you for
taking the time amidst your super busy schedule. I'm glad
we were able to do this. I learned a ton,
really happy. Yeah, this perfect. I learned a ton myself
and hopefully people listening and watching will do the same.
(33:21):
Thanks so much again for joining us, Jandon, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
Thank you, Anthony, goodbye bye,
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