Race: The Continuing American Dilemma

Mayor Pratt talks with sociologist, writer and former Program Officer with the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, Dr. Bobby Austin and former senior vice president of corporate responsibility with John Hancock and CEO of The Partnership Carol Fulp. They discuss America's continuing dilemma around race and issues of inclusion and diversity.

Episode Transcript

(00:09):
This is IPPH on Air, broughtto you by the Institute of Politics,
Policy and History at the University ofthe District of Columbia, and now you're
host former Washington d C. MayorSharon Pratt. Hi, I'm Sharon Pratt,
your host for IPP on Air.IPP the Institute of Politics, Policy

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and History housed on the campus ofthe University of the District of Columbia,
with a focus of rediscovering the historyof Washington, DC, and by so
doing much of the history of ournation while drilling down on touchstone issues of
the day. Today, we continuethis tradition with what some call the American

(00:53):
dilemma, America's continuing dilemma around race, around issues of inclusion and diversity.
Our guest today are real thought leadersin this space. We have doctor Bobby
Austin, a respected sociologist, aformer program officer with the Kellogg Foundation,

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a chief architect of the groundbreaking nineteenninety four report repairing the Breach Key Ways
to support family life, reclaim ourstreets, and rebuild civil society in American
Communities. Were also happy to acknowledgethat he is a resident Fellow with IPPH.
We have as well, Carol Fulpa real human resource policy leader in

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this space, including her stint assenior vice president with John Hancock, the
CEO of the Partnership, an organizationfocused on expanding inclusion and diversity for people
of color in the corporate community ofBoston. President Obama's choice as you representative

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to the sixty fifth Assembly of theUnited Nations and recently author of a great
book, Success Through Diversity, Whythe Most Inclusive Companies will Win also happy
to acknowledge she's a distinguished member ofthe Senior Advisory Committee of IPPH. Welcome

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to you both, Thank you,thank you, thank you. I'm going
to begin with you, doctor Austin. Sometimes I may say Bobby, so
forgive me known you so long.America has been struggling with this issue for
a long time, pre Civil War, certainly post Civil War twentieth century,
with the authorship of the American Dilemma, then later with the Kerne Commission.

(02:46):
Would you say that these organizations,these efforts were focused on what Oneahan later
sort of described as a socioeconomic dysfunctionin the African American community, or would
you say they were otherwise in termsof those reports. Well, first,
thank you for having me, andI'm gonna say, Sharon, if you

(03:07):
don't mind, and because I maynot know to answer you if you say
doctor, but I will. Youknow, this is a very difficult question.
I do not think that the morningHand Study did very much for us

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generally as a as a thought pieceand as people of callup read it.
But it was a very important intellectualpiece and was done by the government,
so that made it very important.So it's a little different from the work
that was done by Murdol and thenthe Coroner Commission, because the Colner Commission

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and the Murdoch Study, which ofcourse was first Murdal did his study in
nineteen came out I think in nineteenforty four, and Turner I think was
in nineteen I think that was insixty seven. And the interesting thing about
those two pieces is that they didnot cause people to fear. They caused

(04:15):
people to have hope, and thatwas a very important thing. I don't
think that the Monahan Report did thatfor us. I think people had more
fear than they had hope, andthat to me is a big difference.
And the difference is what one setof scholars, and they were all scholars,
had to say about this intractable problemthat they thought they saw, which

(04:38):
was that whites were racists and racisttoward Black Americans. And then that last
piece, the Monahan piece, hadtwo mentions which basically put all of the
onus upon African Americans and their slaveculture and their inability to get past it
and become part of the twentieth atthat time, I thinks the twentieth century.
Let me also ask you the same, Carol as also a friend,

(05:00):
Carol Fault, So I will takethe liberty of saying Carol with her as
well. You know, here weare, we've been dealing with this issue
since the inception of the country,even at the time of the creation,
you know, establishing the constitution.Here we are in the twenty first century.
Would you say that we've made anyprogress from what you see in terms

(05:24):
of inclusion and diversity in corporate America? Well, thank you, Sharon,
and thank you Bobby. I dothink that we've made progress, but not
enough progress. I was really movedby Eddie Brown's piercing op ed in the

(05:50):
Washington Post. You and I talkedabout this. The founder and chair of
Brown Capital, headquartered in Baltimore.He runs an asset management firm managers more
than fourteen billions of client funds,had terrible experiences on Wall Street, and

(06:15):
yet really was able to overcome thoseexperiences. But as he looks back,
he indicates that his sensitivity is thattoday younger generations of blacks experience the same

(06:35):
economic disparities as their grandparents did inthe nineteen fifties. So obviously I'm sensitive
about that. So we have madesuccess, we have made drives, but

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we could have made so much moregiven our population size, and the sensitivity
we all have is the huge wealthgap between blacks and whites, and that
will be with us for generations.And we now have a greater sense of

(07:20):
awareness. I'm not certain why thereis a greater sense of awareness, but
certainly Black Lives Matter has sort ofinspired people that there is an opportunity to
exert their own power, that theAfrican American community must make its mark.

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Now, Bobby, you know thatthey aren't the first. We certainly applaud
all that they're doing, but we'vehad Frederick Douglas, Nat Turner, Harriet
Tubman, The Boys Book of tWashington. I mean, we've had a
long history, a rich history ofof asserting our determination having resolved to achieve

(08:05):
a real parody in America. Andyet do you feel that there's something different
about this moment? I really,I really do. I feel that when
you look at the present situation,and I think that's what's so, if
not shocking and surprising for us itshould be a happy time. Is that

(08:28):
you have a rainbow of young peoplewho are prepared to take up this fight.
But one thing that those two studiesthat we have just mentioned, both
Karna and the American Dilemma, saidwas this is really a white people's problem,
that they have an actual problem whenit comes to dealing with well,

(08:52):
they would say people of black people, but I guess you can say people
of color if we wanted to beinclusive. But that was a major couldn't
a conclusion of both studies that evidentlywas quite horrifying at first to the President
Johnson when he picked these people forthe Current Reporter. They came back with
the very same thing that the Carnegiestudy has shown that it is white racism

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that is at the bottom of this. Now, you would think anybody who's
been, as you would say,living on this green earth, and particularly
living in America, would know thatbut it's hard I supposed to face it.
I do believe that this generation isdifferent, both black, White,
Latino, Chinese, Hispanic because andI think many white young people, if

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we can, when we look atwho's in the streets, are probably saying
to themselves, I don't want tocarry this burden on my back for the
rest of my life with you tellingme I am a racist. I don't
want this anymore. And I knowthat the only way to deal with that
is to work with you and toin fact tear this kind of system down.

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Not the American system that we knowthat has been very good to all
of us, but that dark sideof it which has denied, as Carol
just said, so many of usthe opportunity to even develop wealth. That
is something that I think generations tocome do not wish to enter into this
century with this same argument, thesame despair, when we know the answer

(10:31):
to it. I have to agreewith Bobby. It's this new generation,
this next generation. It's the millennialsthat are willing to acknowledge who we really
are as a country. They're willingto acknowledge that it was Europeans who came
over and stole the land from NativeAmericans and pushed them on small part souls

(11:00):
of land. They're willing to acknowledgethat four hundred years ago Europeans brought blacks
here to enslave them. And that'sthe only reason why we are the richest
country in America, because we've hadfree labor for so many years. It

(11:28):
takes this newer generation where millennials.You find now forty percent of millennials are
of color. So millennials overall aremore diverse. They are more accepting,
as you see in terms of gays. They are just more accepting in terms

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of diversity. That's what they knowgiven our demographics, and so they acknowledge
who we are. They are understandingwhat it means to have white privilege,
and that white privilege just comes frombirth. Merely by being born white,

(12:16):
doors are open to you, wherethey're shut if you're born brown or black.
And as Bobby said, they don'twant to have this stain on them.
They don't want to have this stainof eight minutes and forty six seconds

(12:37):
seeing a white policeman so casually puthis knee on a black citizen and take
his life away. That is notwho they choose to think America is.
They choose to look at America aswhat it was originally intended to be,

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that democrat see that one country whereyou could come from everywhere and be free.
So they are working to try toensure that America can be America.
Well, it's wonderful to see.I think without a doubt, media or

(13:20):
the role of media and the disseminationof information is played you know, had
played, has played a role,because I doubt anybody most people do not
think that they are racist. It'sthe attitude, the notions, the stereotypes
that are baked into the culture ofa country and someone how they've been educated.

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When you're in school, you reallydon't learn much about anyone's contribution beyond
white men. You wouldn't think anywoman did anything or either in the American
Revolution, and you just really andthere's no acknowledgement of the contribution of anybody
beyond a white male. And Idoubt that there. You know, there
had been people before Rosa Parks interms of refusing to move on a bus.

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But what we had with Rosa Parks, we had television. We had
the capacity for the world to seejust what was going on in America.
Who had already been the bulwark ofdemocracy, and certainly now we have the
ability with phones to be able tocapture what happened to George Floyd, and

(14:31):
therefore there is a collective sense ofshame. This leads to a question,
I mean, do you think alsothat these young people grew up at a
time when a black man was president, So it obviously must have had an
impact on their notion of who hasworth and who does not, Whereas before

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there were rarely any examples of blackpeople having real power, and even when
they had, they did it todismiss it. Carol, you certainly played
a role with Obama. Do youthink that had had an impact? Oh?
Certainly. And the other thing thatplays an impact is that this new

(15:15):
generation is far more global. Youknow, given those phones that you mentioned,
their worlds are far more global.The young person in DC is not
that young white person, let's say, in DC is not competing against that

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young person in Texas. They're competingagainst that young person in China, in
India. The world is far morediverse today, far more global, and
so these young people understand that powercomes in many forms, in many colors,

(16:00):
and in actuality. You look atour country, and you look at
the demographics of our country. Bytwenty forty three, the US Census Bureau
indicates they'll be more people of colorin this country than Caucasians. Today,
there are more babies of color bornthan Caucasians. So, yes, you've

(16:25):
had an amazing African American leader whothese young people grew up with, but
you also have them growing up withfar more diversity than the Baby Boomers grew
up with. And the only otherplace where diversity was seen was in the

(16:48):
US Armed Forces, where individuals fromall over the country would come together.
And that's why so many individuals areproposing we have some sort of public service,
some sort of national public service initiativeto really engage so many young people

(17:17):
when they finish high school so thatthey have an opportunity to come together with
others across regions and helped build America. That's an excellent point, Bobby,
what do you think of this sixteennineteen project that has been hosted by The
New York Times. I think there'sbeen a counter project with which individuals like

(17:41):
Bob Woodson have been involved. Ithink it's called the seventeen seventy six project.
I assume that the value of thesixteen nineteen project is to remind America
to what extent slavery played such adefining role in the evolution of the country.
But what do you think. Idon't want to get into too much

(18:03):
trouble here, but the sixteen nineteenproject is an excellent, excellent project.
I actually don't see how she evermanaged to convince them to do it.
That's the first thing. So sheshould get a reward just for that.
That must have been tough. Buthaving said that, there are as you

(18:26):
would imagine something so huge and sodefining, and they're very definite about it
if you are considering, if youconsider yourself a scholar. And even though
I do say that lightly, thereare things about it that I find I
don't know about that. It's oneof those kinds of things where you read
it saying, well, I don'tknow about that. But the overriding point

(18:48):
that I think Nicole Hannah Jones wasattempting to do was to report a story
as a reporter. I would notsay that she was a historian, and
so when people ask me, Isaid she was not a historian. And
I don't think she ever said Idon't remember seeing it that she was a
historian, she didn't employ something towork with her. I think the sixteen

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and what she was trying to dowas set a new narrative, which is
okay, was that narratives all thetime, set a new narratives, say
it began here when Africans came,except Africans did not come as slaves at
the beginning of the country. Theycame as indentured workers, like many people
came, and that changed over aperiod of time. And so that has

(19:34):
to be said and said very clearly, or else our children would get the
wrong impression that we all came herethat way, and it did not start
that way. There were some whocame as indentured and then it evolved and
developed into what we now know asthat slaves system. So those are the
kinds of things that I think areimportant to say. Now when you get

(19:56):
to seventeen seventy six, that's fine, I know exactly what they're talking about,
talking about the Constitution and so forth. But I also think that Nicole
had it right because I say thisin my speech, is it is this
freedom was meant for white men aproperty. No one debates that. Every

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scholar will tell you that it wasnot written for white women, wasn't written
for black women, who certainly wasnot written for black men. Now,
what black people did, in ourown inimitable way is to go in and
say, well, it's on thepage that we are all free. It's
on the page that all men areendowed by their creator, and we believe

(20:45):
in God, we have these rights. So what they did is what I
think she basically tried to say,was we help to invent the idea of
freedom which today goes around world,that everybody can be free, and every
every no matter your circumstances, nomatter your sexual proclivities, no matter your

(21:07):
color, no matter your eyesight,your hair color, if you are born
a human being. Now, wedid that and we must that's I like
to I like to take the thingsthat are good that we do. We
did that, and we must claimthat that we help to redefine the definition
of freedom. And it started inthis country because freedom is a very new

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thing that was born with the experimentof the American birth, and we are
partner of that birth. So Ithink that is correct, and I like
that you can have intelligent and effectivedebate between two opposing ideas we're very intelligive.
We can maintain those two diverse pointsof view and still get to the

(21:51):
same place. We don't all haveto be in the same basket. That's
the only thing I don't. Sometimesbecome very fed up with a black American
politics. Everybody has to go alone. No, everybody shouldn't have to go
along. There should be some blackRepublicans. That's a problem when you don't
have blacks in all parties, becauseanything can happen to you when you are
the time in a minority in acountry where it is majority of white at

(22:14):
this point. So it is veryimportant what they did, and I applaud
them for it. I think thatthe two major things that I see that
are good are the building of anew narrative, even though I don't agree
necessarily that narrative, and the statementwhich I know to be true and do
agree with, is that we redefinethe meaning the meaning of freedom, and

(22:34):
now that is what people around theworld us. Well, one day we
have to drill down on how onegot from being indentured to being slaves.
Yeah, you go ahead, please, No, it's not it's not that
simple. But I had to dowith basically with the whites who were here,
who blacks and white started to intermarry. So as they started into Marya's

(23:00):
like, well who's gonna you know, and the and the Indians were dying
out. They had just about annihilatingthem in many ways, and when working
them so hard. But uh LasCasas wrote up he was a Spanish judgment,
I wrote to the Pope and fromthat epistle came the new directive that

(23:21):
you could bring Africans in and theycould be enslaved and they could work uh
as slaves in the New World.So don't forget if they had to come
to the Catholic Church. And itwas a very interesting time. And uh
I think the English start was agood idea as well, because they wanted
free labor. So that's a veryslave trade was a major industry America for

(23:44):
the British and you know, andyeah so France, yeah, fran yeah,
yeah, it was. Yeah,it was a major industry. Oh,
absolutely, they needed a labor forus and they found that they get
a free lay. Once they alwaysknew they one slaves, but they didn't
say that they were black slaves.They didn't go there directed to do that.

(24:07):
But when it's when it got tobe you know, wow, why
don't we do this, We canget traders to sell us slaves. And
when when it was opened up tothem, particularly when the Indians received that
relief from Las Casas, he eventuallytook it back. It was too late
then. We were already so manyMedians that come across on the boats that
it was just too late to takeit back. But actually he opened that

(24:29):
floodgate for us to move into thatkind of position. That's very narrow.
I would like to talk more aboutit, and I will look it up
a little bit more and talk tobut it really did start off almost as
if you know, when blacks andwhites were here, they worked together as
intention at first, so that that'snot quite they came as slaves. Only

(24:51):
well, I'm gonna go to Carolnow because without a doubt, I mean
in terms of America taking off economically, because originally slaves were primarily tobacco,
but with the cotton gin which wasa boon for America and so much so
that that's why even though I thinkslave trading across the Atlantic may have been

(25:15):
stopped, there was a lot ofbreeding here in the United States, and
so what was originally I think somethinglike a half millen got to be almost
four million. But without a doubtthat the textile industries, the cotton gin
really did it. But do youthink it's a legitimate point, Carol?
When we talked to corporate America intwenty twenty one, do we sound does

(25:38):
one sound? Do these young peoplewith black lives matters sound almost irrelevant talking
about something that happened that certainly endedofficially, at least legally in around eighteen
sixty five. I think that's agreat question, Sharon, and so many

(26:02):
corporate CEOs or executives will say,well, you know, but I didn't
have anything to do with slavery.And that's why it's really important for us
to know and to understand our historyand the impact of slavery. What we

(26:25):
have now is a system where slaveryis quite frankly whitewashed. It's really not
talked about in our history books.We don't talk about the impact of slavery.

(26:47):
We don't talk about the fact thatwhen you had slaves, you gave
slaves minimal healthcare. And so whathas continued you throughout the years in communities
Black communities is to traditionally have minimalhealthcare. We don't talk about the fact

(27:15):
that once slaves were emancipated, tokeep newly emancipated slaves in line, you
had these police brute, really brutalgangs, really and that's where police brutality

(27:36):
today stems from. But we reallyneed to understand and talk about our history
and acknowledge our history. White Americadoesn't want to acknowledge this history of America.

(27:56):
They only want to see what Bobbyhad talked about, this wonderful experiment
of democracy, of freedom, theonly country in the world which has created
this democracy. But yet we didnot have an equal democracy for everyone living

(28:22):
in this country. But we stillhave an opportunity because this is how our
country was founded on these principles,and we have an opportunity to get back
to these principles. And that's whatwe have to do. And these young
people, they're idealistic. They wantto be really equitable, and they don't

(28:51):
want to have As Bobby said,that's staying on them. So the first
thing we need to do is toeducate people bull so they can understand the
impact of slavery. Emmanuel Accu willsay, you know, you have to
think of slavery as a ship.You know, you have a ship,

(29:15):
but that ship, you know,leaves awake behind it, and slaveries are
like a ship, and there's thiswake that is still there today that has
impact on all blacks. Yes,no, well said Carol, and I

(29:37):
don't see how. And you knowyou have in eighteen sixty five, starting
eighteen sixty three the Emancipation Proclamation,which as we know, Lincoln basically emancipated
only those slaves who were a partof the states that were fighting the Union,
so it didn't extend. And hedid emancipate the slaves of Washington,
DC. And of course that's astory unto itself that we had stay who

(30:00):
would care about that? This iswhy we would create it. That Washington
d C. Two basically a thumbsup to the institution of slavery. But
you know, if you emancipate peopleand there never was the forty acres in
the mules, nothing to provide shelter, food, education, start a business,

(30:21):
and then you follow up with JimCrowe, it's tough anyone. No
one should be surprised about the differencein net Worth, which is like forty
you know, an absurd disparity.I've forgotten now the difference of a few
thousand dollars for African Americans no cushionversus White Americans. Here in Austin the

(30:47):
net worth the value if if you'rewhite, it's two hundred and fifty thousand.
Your your value as two hundred andfifty thousand, and if you're black
it's eight dollars. And that twod that two hundred and fifty thousand is
a house. It is this homeownership piece. And I work in an

(31:11):
area there that we if we talkabout, what will this Black Lives Matter
thing do? What is the assYou know, the one thing all these
studies have shown us. It's thesame thing. They go over and over
and again. They say the samethings. Bad police policies, as flawed
justice system, on scrupulous credit practices, you know, poor and adequate housing,

(31:34):
high and informant vote I can goon voter suppressions. These are the
same thing. We know what theproblem is. Okay, so there's a
problem. But the way to getout of it is what we those of
us who are stakeholders today should beattempting to lay the groundwork for and quite
frankly, homeownership is a key pieceof every American's ability to not only have

(32:00):
something, but to borrow something andto be a part of creating a wealth
for yourself and a legacy for yourchildren. And that is simply something that
we have not made a great dealof progress. And do you think there
is a next step that's you knowthere that we can see. I know
that Black Lives Matter puts a greateremphasis on defunding police, But do either

(32:24):
of you, Carol, I'll beginwith you. Do you think reparations make
sense? And if so, doyou think that we're anywhere near having embracing
that since it never happened at theend of slavery and now we're at only
a net worth of fourteen dollars.I think it's something that should be studied

(32:46):
and to determine the best way ofmaking impact on our community as a whole.
My personal approach, so that's theresponse to reparation. My approach.
My career has been spent in corporateand so I focus on opening the doors

(33:12):
wider, incorporate because if you havea good job, you can buy a
home. And so I'm really I'mheartened, But with one eye, you
know, open and I'm heartened bythe commitments that corporate has made in regards

(33:37):
to Black Lives Matter. You haveAddidas, who owns Reebok, who says
that they're going to ensure that thirtypercent of their new positions are filled with
black and Latin X. You haveGoogle who's formed a task for us within

(34:00):
their company who will help to ensurethat thirty percent of leadership positions are going
to be filled by under represented individuals. You look at NBC Universal, who

(34:22):
in May promoted Caesar Conde Latin Xgentlemen to be their news group chairman,
and we just saw as a result, Joy Reid was selected for the seven

(34:43):
pm new slot for MSNBC, buthe has indicated his commitment is to have
fifty percent diverse workforce. And thenin Boston we have State Street fin Financial
global company who has diversity goals andpublishes them every year and ties those goals

(35:12):
and their results to performance and tobonus. So I'm optimistic that with this
movement, corporate will move and willsee and understand, and there's you can
already see the consumer products. Companiesare moving because they are responding to their

(35:38):
consumers' needs. And I think thatwe do have a real opportunity this time.
Well, that's encouraging. But ifyou look at Silicon Valley, they
seem I know, you've decided Google, and that's that's good to know,
because they seem to have not gottenvery far on this issue of diversity,

(36:01):
at least to include African Americans orfor that matter, Hispanic Americans. They
haven't gotten far. So you havea Google which has decided to increase their
representation, and then you have aFacebook who you have adl and the NAACP

(36:24):
having a huge boycott this month sayingboycott Facebook because they are allowing discriminatory messages
to be posted on their site,on their platform. So there are ways

(36:45):
to demonstrate your power and influence,and this is the time we've got to
seize this time, utilize the momentumthat we have now to make change.
Well, what about you, Bobbyabout reparations. I know that the Congressional

(37:07):
Black Caucus, now under the leadershipof Shila Jackson Lee, are championing legislation
a commission to study, as Carolsuggested, reparations and to divine a process
by which reparations could be accomplished.What are your thoughts on that? Well,

(37:30):
first, let me give I enjoyedwhat Carol just said, very very
reason very thoughtful. I am nota defunct police person. Quite frankly,
I think that is just First Ithink it's ludicrous. I think that's the
wrong. They're using the wrong words, and I think it's important. If
black lives matter, the other servingsshould be words matter. What you say

(37:52):
matters. That's what people are listeningto. They do not mean, I
hope they do not mean let's nothave police. I don't think anybody would
agree with that. So that's oneof the lessons learned. We must also
point back and say, no,we don't mean this that you don't want
the streets unprotected. You don't wantyour mothers and your sisters and your fathers

(38:15):
and your older brothers are unprotected.You want protection. We all do.
That's what a society is. Let'snot get it twisted. It's just we
don't want practices that harm and killpeople. We do not want a reckless
police. We want a different modeand a different way of policing. England

(38:35):
at one time had a very goodone. Is it's developed a little bit
as they watched us, and nowthey're all in black boots and automatic guns
some of them. But we wantto back that up and reorganize what we
used to call community policing. Itcan be done, and I have funded
projects that did it. There werethose in Japan and they worked very well.
I funded some of the United Stateswhere the policeman actually lived in the

(39:00):
communities. It was a very good, very strong program. That's what we
need to get back to on thatone. Now. As far as the
reparations, again, I think wordsmatter. I don't think that the word
reparations is the best way to sayit. I think the investment in the

(39:21):
lives of people in the United Stateswho are African Americans is an investment that
is owed to us because of whatwe have contributed, what we have built,
and what we have created in thiscountry and have never been compensated for.

(39:42):
You asked me, well, whywould you want to compensate African Americans
and no one else, Well,no one else was brought here against their
will and put to work for threehundred years and had their lives in many
ways stolen from them, their identitiesstolen. They had to create their own
and begin all over again. Andthen when they were free, as you

(40:04):
said, Sharon earlier, they weregiven basically nothing except you are now free.
Now that is a shame. Sofirst we have a legal sense because
uh, forty acres and a mule. We still all laugh, But that
was what was supposed to be hours. I take it right this minute.
Give me forty acres of downtown NewYork. I be a happy man,

(40:24):
But give me the mule. Iunderstand. So I think we can start
right there. I hope this RepresentativeJackson Lee, starts right there. This

(40:49):
is what the Indians are teaching us. Now, this is what you said.
This is gonna hold up in court. You gave us this. We'd
ask you for this and this onlyif we test ask for that, folks,
and you compound that over what howmany years we been through? One
hundred and fifties of do you knowwhat that would amount to? And then

(41:09):
and then you would set up commissionsto work with all of us on what
to do with that money, becauseI think mainly we need to do two
major things. We need to setup a health trust fund to get our
people healthy, including me. Imean, we're just the reason we're all
afraid of COVID because there are somany underlying health issues that are related to

(41:30):
the stress of having to work anddeal with the society. That's one,
and that's been proven by scholars andmedical people all over the country. And
secondly, we need to fund andendow the historically by colleges because that is
the only reason we are still standing. And that's how I feel. No,
no, no, I mean,every one of the hps to use

(41:52):
is underfunded, under capitalized, andso almost every institution African Americans have had,
I've been undercapitalized. And I thinkyou know so much of that is
that there never were If you andif you're a role in the capitalist system
is to be the commodity bread andboded, you don't come out of that

(42:15):
system with any kind of net worth. You come out of it with a
deficit. So so if you hadboth of you'all sort of ask as the
closing question, if you had theattention of all of the major decision makers
in America. You know, youhave a president who listens, a Speaker

(42:37):
of the House, the majority leader, as well as the business roundtable.
They're all listening to Bobby and toCarol about what do you want what do
you want us to do so thatwe finally can make amends for the troubles

(42:58):
of the past that live with ustoday. How do we move forward in
a way that's constructive. Do youhave some two or three things you just
suggested, Bobby, then investment inhealth and in HBCUs. Would you are
there any other recommendations you'd make?Well, you know those are my two
marrijor ones. And the reason Itake those is because they really are bigger

(43:22):
than us, you know, becauseI'm not in the diversity world. But
I think Carol will probably say,when you're looking at the social capital of
these black college students, they havelots of agency. When they are allowed
to participate and to come into corporateAmericas, that would be an investment for

(43:42):
the corporates, would be making ina reinvestment, you know, in people,
and that is important. We alldo not have to go to Harvard
and to Yale. They're the oneswho've messed the place up for the last
four years. But we can infact do something about these schools. And
if there is a soapbox I willdie on that is it is to get

(44:04):
them funded adequately with any big endowmentthat really gives an opportunity for kids to
get educated and educated well. Andthe health thing is for all of us
because we are not a well bothmentally physically. We need that help and
we have to deal with ourselves sometimeswhen we're dealing with these issues. Okay,

(44:30):
now, Carol, as you dealwith as you answer the question,
all of America, now all ofthe America who are decision makers are listening,
I'm going to ask you, asyou think of that answer, would
you include when you speak to particularlycorporate America, to include a better job
in terms of vendor participation, notjust executive participation or employment participation. As

(44:58):
we speak to corporate America and beyondour government leaders, I would like them
to look at the situation today inthese terms. I would like them to
be aware that we have two pandemics. We have COVID nineteen for two thousand

(45:25):
and nineteen, and we have COVIDsixteen nineteen when the first black was brought
to America. And I'd like themto understand the challenges that exist that COVID

(45:52):
sixteen nineteen is still impacting us,so that you see it played out in
COVID nineteen quite literally, Blacks aremost impacted by that, and so obviously

(46:15):
healthcare is something that needs to beaddressed most readily. But from a corporate
perspective, I'd like for them tounderstand that thirteen percent of our population is
black, and that ten percent ofblacks have college degrees, many many of

(46:45):
them from HBCUs. And today eightpercent of professionals incorporate are black, but
only three percent then our executives,and then drill down further and we have

(47:06):
only five black feels in fortune fivehundred, and that's down from seven a
decade ago. What is wrong withthis picture? When our population continues to
grow, What is the impact ofinstitutionalized racism that is still occurring and is

(47:37):
deeper and more silent today than ever. And so we have to shift from
saying I'm not racist to saying eachand every leader has to focus on anti
racism. And that is what amI doing to breaking down the structural system

(48:04):
and our society that are preventing blacksfrom having equity, from being able to
generate any wealth of any kind.And I think that we all need to
revisit our systems and understand that itis not a part of that constitution which

(48:34):
we said we hoped we could bewhen all men and we have to add
women are free. How do weget back to that? And we need
to reconstruct that. No, Ithink that's powerful. Well, I want
to thank Bobby Austin and Carol Faultfor a very stimulating conversation. I want
to also share with our listening audienceyou know where to find us IPPR air.

(49:00):
You can find us on Spotify,Stitcher, and Apple. You could
also find us at our website IPPHdot org. You can find us at
Twitter, Politics Policy One. Youcan find us on Facebook, Politics Policy
History, and on Instagram, whereyou find us at Politics Policy History.

(49:21):
Thank you very much for a verystimulating conversation. Thank you for allowing us
to reflect on our history as wedeal with these cutting edge issues of the
day. And thank you to ourlistening audience of IPPH on Air. You've
been listening to IPPH on Air,hosted by former Washington DC mayor Sharon Pratt.

(49:44):
IPPH on Air as a production ofthe Institute of Politics, Policy and
History at the University of the Districtof Columbia. To reach us with commins
or questions, email us at infoat ipp dot org. Thanks for listening.
You can find more IPPH on Airprograms like today's episode, Doctor Bobby

(50:05):
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