The Power Of Protest In Sports

Mayor Pratt speaks with Kevin Merida, ESPN Senior Vice President and Editor-in-Chief of the sports blog The Undefeated and Bijan Bayne, award-winning Washington-based freelance columnist, critic, author and IPPH Resident Fellow in Sports. They discuss the tradition of protest in America (Boston Tea Party) and how that protest has been leveraged in sports.

Episode Transcript

(00:09):
This is IPPH on Air, broughtto you by the Institute of Politics,
Policy and History at the University ofthe District of Columbia and now your host,
former Washington d C Mayor Sharon Pratt. Hi. I'm Sharon Pratt,
host of IPP on Air IPPH.The Institute of Politics, Policy and History

(00:31):
housed on the campus of the Universityof the District of Columbia, with the
mission of rediscovering the history of Washington, DC, and by so doing much
of the history of our nation whiledrilling down on touchstone issues of the day.
And so today we drilled down onand examine the historic experience of protest

(00:55):
in America, a country that reallybegan with protests the Boston Tea Party,
and in particular how star athletes haveleveraged their platform to engage in protest,
often very consequential protest. And wehave two terrific guests. We have Kevin

(01:15):
Merida, who is the ESPN SeniorVice President, editor in chief of the
sports blog The Undefeated. And wealso have Jean Bain, who is a
Washington based award winning freelance calumnists critic, author of many books, particularly Washington

(01:36):
d C. Sports for Nomens aswell as an IPPH Resident Fellow in Sports.
Thank you both for being here.Thank you, appreciate that, appreciate
having shared. Oh, I'm delightedto have both of you here. And
as we talk about this very significantexperience that we've had throughout the history of

(01:56):
the country, I dare say,but particularly in rees and events. And
I'll sort of begin with you andwe'll just do Kevin Bejean and Sharon Jean,
could you sort of give us thetrajectory of athletes engaged in protest.
I mean, I'm certain it beganlong before the nineteen thirty six Olympics,
and it wasn't so much protest,but the very presence of Jesse Owens that

(02:19):
Nazi Germany's you know, for theOlympics was a form of protests to some
extent, but certainly nineteen sixty eightprotests with Carlos and Tommy Smith. Can
you talk about the profile of sportsprotests or the trajectory of protest in sport,
as you stated, does predate therise of Nazi Germany. In the

(02:45):
US, there were protests about Jimpro accommodations and Jim pro lodging, but
they don't really reach national scope interms of coverage and probably in terms of
the athlete having leverage until post WorldWar two, because that's the time period
when one some of the major teamsports become a little bit more racially integrated

(03:10):
that have been segregated. And numbertwo, it's really the era in which
we see the professional sports being fulltime employment and in large, large level
entertainment with with huge crowds, largestadiums, and being covered by the type
of mainstream media and also covered bythe black press, such that the protests

(03:36):
would garner a lot of coverage anda lot of interests. And in the
post war era, we have ballplayers who protest that the fact that the
baseball spring training facilities, which werelargely in Florida, were segregated, the
cities were segregated, so the lodgingwas by extension segregated. We have Elgin
Baylor his rookie year in nineteen fiftynine playing a regular season game, actually

(04:00):
not deciding to play a regular seasongame in Charleston, West Virginia because of
segregated accommodations, and also the factthat when he and his three fellow black
Minneapolis Lakers attempted to check him intothe hotel where their owner, Bob Short
had booked them and had told himthat there were four negro players on the

(04:20):
team, and the management hadn't expressedany qualms about the fact that the team
had black players. The players,after the confusion about not being able to
accommodate Baylor and Ed Flemming and BooEllis and the fourth black player, went
to grab a bite to eat indowntown Charleston and they were refused service there

(04:44):
as well, and that's when Baylordecided he wasn't going to play. And
when teammates and media asked him whyhe wasn't going to play in that particular
game, he said, I'm notan animal let out of a cage.
In other words, I'm not justsomebody you can wind up for entertainment.
I'm a full human being. I'ma holistic person. He's not just wind

(05:06):
up basketball robot. And then,obviously in the nineteen sixties, because of
the the microcosm that sport is,we see more because of the Greensboro sittings
and Nashville and Birmingham and Selma.Not in some sports as much, not

(05:28):
in Major League Baseball very much.Not many outspoken athletes, some track and
field, not too much in majorcollege except for the All Cender UCLA.
Primarily a little bit of basketball likeRussell, and not a lot of people
in pro football, although Jim Brownwas very vocal about injustice after he retired.

(05:51):
Well, uh, yeah, wehad Russell, and then of course
we had before that, Jack Johnson. I mean, you get maybe his
wasn't protest in the sense of anissue, but it was his assertion of
himself as a man. Wouldn't yousay that was a form of protests that
led. I mean, he ultimatelyended up in jail. There is that

(06:15):
element in some of the protests thatwe've seen. Would you call Jack Johnson's
experience protests? I think when youlook at people like Jack Johnson, the
important thing to consider is that althoughhe might not have termed it protests,
just his demand that he'd be treatedequally as a as a human and that

(06:35):
he'd be regarded in the same light, you know, whether it be in
terms of his large ass, orhis colorful character, or his expensive cars,
his romantic and marital choices which insome in some instances were what were

(06:56):
called interracial. Just the fact thathe was larger than lavish, brass figure,
and he wanted to be treated justlike any other celebrity, like a
May Wester or Rudolph Valentino. Thatin and of itself could be argued is
protests because it's demanding that you notgive me as different, because you know,

(07:16):
you have other figures who are celebrities, who are definitely colorful, who
are definitely outspoken, who are definitelycontroversial, and who definitely have lavish lifestyles.
So I think the lineage can betraced before World War Two, but
it's not until after the Second WorldWar where there's the five day work week

(07:39):
in the leisure time to really consumethese major sports and mass audiences radio television,
major newspapers, large stadiums, andthings of that nature, where the
athletes would fully devote themselves to thesesports as their sole professions. That we
start to see them realize their leverageand exercising that with things such as Boycott's

(08:03):
walking out, holding out, marchingin Birmingham as Floyd Patterson did, marching
in in the Deep South with DoctorKing and others, with Charlie Evers and
Meggie Evers, as Bill Russell did. You didn't see as much of that

(08:24):
in Major League Baseball in the nineteenfifties and sixties, although Jackie Robinson was
of course very outspoken. You didn'tsee as much of it in professional football
though, and Jim Brown was veryadamant about racial justice and particularly in his
case, about black economic self empowermentafter his playing years. Yeah. So,

(08:48):
so the real profile, the realpresence of real protests among athletes,
and very often and more often thannot African American athletes, you're saying,
occurred after World War Two, whenpeople have more time to consume it.
Probably also with the advent of television, where they had more time to watch.

(09:09):
I don't think, for example,the Marge in Washington would have been
nearly as powerful had the world notbeen able to see what was going on
in America. You know, therewas a collective sort of shame for America
when the world could watch. Andso so it's the confluence of all of
these events that made h you know, protest in the world of sports become

(09:33):
more significant. I think I thinkit is, that's one point. And
I think it is when the athletesthemselves became these really economically how whole celebrities
who could command in the case ofMuhammad Ali a quarter of a million dollars,
a half million dollars, We're inthe Fraser fight, two and a

(09:54):
half million dollars in one night.They realized that if people refused to address
him by his name and refused torecognize his stance on the war in Southeast
Asia based on his religious beliefs,that, especially since he was an athlete
in an individual sport, if hetook I mean, obviously it worked the

(10:16):
other way around, they took histitle away. But if he stated I
refused to perform, if I'm notallowed to express these beliefs and I don't
want to be inducted because it goesagainst my faith. He was not just
I mean, he was the marqueeprize fighter of his era. So it
was as much as it hurt him, damaged his life in terms of him

(10:39):
incurring all those legal fees and losingthe best three and a half years arguably
of his career because he was agedtwenty seven to thirty. It also hurt
boxing because he had revived boxing inthe aftermath of Sunny Listen being associated with
mobs and organized crime and a lotof fights in the early nineteen sixties,

(11:03):
which were controversial because people died asa result of their ring injuries, and
just the whole mobbed up nature ofthe sport. By him being young and
vibrant and articulate and poetic and cherubicand engaging, it revived the entire sport.
So boxing did suffer with his lossbecause the people who they bequeathed his

(11:31):
title to in his absence or inhis sports exile when not anywhere near is
telegenic and anywhere near as quotable,and didn't make millions for the media as
Muhammad aliviers such as the phrases andperformance. Yes, and I do want
to note the fact that it wouldappear that most of the athletes who do

(11:52):
engage in protests tend to be AfricanAmericans, although in truth all form of
protests which is a very American kindof thing, it's as American as apple
pie. This country began in protest, and to some extent, even the
colonists were saying, I want tobe treated as an equal. They resented
how the monarchy were, how itwas treating the colonists in terms of taxation,

(12:16):
and so there was that level.It almost always is. Is it
not an expression of treat me withdignity, treat me with respect. But
in America, of course, becauseof its own painful history, so often
the ones at the forefront of thesekinds of protest, at least in terms
of sports, appear to be AfricanAmericans. I guess there are examples,

(12:41):
certainly of women speaking out in termsof parity, but by and large,
in America, it's been African Americans, has it not. And before I
let die back in, I willsay that your point about women is very
UH significant and not to be overlookedbecause as early as the ALPHAA Gibsons UH,

(13:07):
certainly with Billy Jane King, whowasn't really protested in racial inequity,
she was protesting, for lack ofa better term, gender inequity, inequity
or pay um. The US women'snational soccer team, and very recently in
the in the UH the era ofthe deaths of Trayvon Martin and Sanjo Bland
and UH and Breonna Taylor, thew NBA have really been UH at the

(13:33):
forefront, so much so that MayaMoore, who is arguably one of their
best too IFY players, even retiredto focus on social change and social justice.
Kevin is that your sense of it. Yeah, look, I think
that you know, certainly you cansee right now with uh, you know,
just just the ampathon on the onwomen. Uh certainly Megan Rapino,

(13:58):
what's happening in both him in hockey, women's soccer. But but back to
the larger question of black athletes.I think that black athletes have been willing
to to to risk. They've alsobeen really aligned with UM social movement leadership,
you know, and and certainly backin the sixties there were a lot

(14:20):
of close relationships, um you know, I know, and and you know,
Harry Edwards, who was a majorsports figure UM and buys a lot
of athletes, was one of thepeople advising to lead the boycott of the
nineteen sixty eight Olympics, had alot of influence on on black athletes.

(14:41):
Um, you know, and wewe certainly saw John Carlson, Tommy Smith
uh take a stand, you know, and they paid a price for that,
um, you know, needs tosay. Obviously, Muhammad Ali paid
a great price three and a halfyears of his his uh uh in the
time of his career loss. Butmany others, you know, Bill Russell,

(15:03):
Oscar Robertson, Arthur ashe as asas Bejan said they they were aligned
with what else was going on inthe streets and they felt like they were
part of that, you know.Um and and I do think that,
um, you know, we seesome of that happening, that that tradition

(15:24):
being carried forth. Now, youknow, you know, Lebron James started
a voting rights group, you know, uh, along with Skylar Diggins and
uh my Eastman colleague Jayalen Rowells andothers and really taking up this this this
most important democratic freedom voting, makingsure that there's not voting suppression and other

(15:50):
barriers to to stop the vote forus. And that was something that's been
done in real time. So Ido think that there has been this since
that it's not just enough to speakon it from the standpoint of, you
know, with a microphone or aftera game or comment, but that how

(16:11):
else can we use our influence topush forward the cause of racial justice?
So what are the economics of this? I mean you so right now we're
going through the COVID nineteen. Itwas their real economic consequence to the boycott,
and some people call it the strike. Several leagues participated in it for

(16:32):
a few days is there an economicconsequence and is that a lever of power
that these athletes really have. Well, I think they certainly resumed the league.
They would have lost a lot ofmoney if they decided to shut it
down the entire that would have beena cost to them. So that would
have been a sacrifice that they wouldhave been making for their own livelihoods,

(16:57):
you know, would have brought possiblychange the UH you know there there were
anything from fifteen to thirty five percentpotentially of their UH salaries next year could
have been lost, um, youknow, could have changed the collective bargaining
agreement terms. And and certainly fromthe standpoint of owners, I think the

(17:19):
leverage that athletes have is you know, they they the owners of teams have
um, you know, a lotof influence, right, They have influence
in places through their regular businesses thatgo beyond that, and so leveraging their
athletes, leveraging their influence can gobeyond themselves. And one of the things

(17:42):
that was part of what they agreedto was owners and the arenas. They
have massive arenas. And here weare in covid Um nineteen period where we're
not sure about voting and and whatit's going to be what turnouts gonna be

(18:02):
live, that they're going to openup these stadiums and big arenas as voting
sites, and it was one ofthe things that athletes push for. It's
not only the economics, because clearlythey have some bargaining strength, and obviously
that it has to be a solidarityon the part of the athletes, as
with any strike with any union forit to be impactful. I mean,

(18:22):
if any if it's just two orthree, it's not going to have the
same I would assume same impact,absolutely. But what's happened now seemingly is
that there's been a shift in thesentiment of the public, the audiences where
they, you know, a lotof you did see a number of columnists
come out and said, you know, we don't need this, We need

(18:44):
to have a mental relief from COVIDand everything else. We don't need the
athletes engaging in politics. But overwhelminglyit seemed that America was supporting them.
I do think though, yeah,you're you're actually right sharing. I think
that a lot of the tide hasshifted in terms of how the public is

(19:06):
coming to these these subjects. Ithink there was a period of time when
there there seemed to be a sentimentof least by some uh cohort of sports
fans that they just want to watchsports, they don't want to have their
athletes. And that's we've seen thisas it relates to other cultural figures,

(19:27):
whether they be in Hollywood or inthe music scene, where they want to
enjoy their entertainment. And I thinkthe athletes, uh, you know,
we're saying no, you know,athletes are particularly that slogan more than an
athlete has been been wanted athletes.But I think the public has caught onto
that. You know, the publichas has said, no, what what

(19:51):
the athletes are doing are They're addressingsome issues that are important in front and
center in the country, and Ithink I think a a lot of the
polls have reflected that that shift inpublic sentiment. Do you share that,
Brashan, Yes, I think theit's it's it's difficult to gauge obviously in

(20:11):
real time other than by polling,and even that, you know, depends
on the demographics that poll. Wherethe needle has moved on public sentiment regarding
UM athletes expressing themselves on social issuesbecause um, there's a there's a core

(20:36):
element of society who are sort ofum rigid in their stance against it,
just in principle, and they'll tellyou something like, um, that's why
I don't watch that particular sport anymore. I don't watch anymore I was watching,
or I never liked that sport anyway. And then because we're sort of
in a phase of shutdown, ina phase of the pandemic where we're not

(21:03):
fully realized in terms of crowds,audiences, interaction, and attendance, it's
it's hard to really put a fingeron where, you know, the national
cinement might have moved since late Mayor early June, especially since there might
be some who sympathize with the athletesor those that were unarmed, that were

(21:30):
killed or who were paralyzed to onedegree. But on the other hand,
they might feel that some of theproperty damage in Portland and Kenosha is a
bridge too far for them to goin terms of how people have voiced their

(21:52):
disillusion or their anger. So untilthe election, and until some of these
statewide elections that think like that,it's going to be hard to really see
where where we are as a countryaround this, and it's almost impossible to
gage some of these things in themajor league sports like football, baseball,

(22:15):
basketball, Power five college football,because except for a few instances where they're
allowing twenty percent of their stadium sizeto attend, maybe the first couple of
weeks, we won't have attendees.I think, let me just ask this.
This is I'm I'm, you know, putting my own point of view
on it. But it would appearto me more as a student of politics,

(22:40):
that we have reached an inflection pointin the country. And I wonder
assuming that whether that's attributable to thefact that we have not only a younger
generation, which often always you know, push us any country to a more
progressive ten point of view, butyou have you know, some generations that

(23:02):
grew up with a black president andso there, you know, their notion
of what should be and shouldn't beis very different than certainly my generation,
you know. So I think thatthere may be an inflection point in the
country that that is also contributing tosome of the polling we're seeing and generally

(23:27):
within the country, I mean,who the whole Black Lives Matter mark all
of these marches, Many times youlook at it and they're more young white
people out there than there are blackpeople out there, So America may be
at an inflection point which gives power, I would think to the athletes.
Now, is that what you're seeing, Kevin? I do think it's the

(23:49):
power is given to the athlete,for sure. And how about the economics
of it? Though, in termsof for example, what are the difference
in the demographics of the football leagueseems a lot more conservative, seemingly than
obviously the NBA. From it.I'm a consumer, so I may not
be reading it correctly. They willawfully hard on Colin Kaepernick, so it

(24:12):
would seem is it a different demographictoo? Who watches the sports? Who
owns the teams? Is that thedifference? I think? I think all
of those right. I think thatvery strong UH base in the South and
and in Midwest, and in theNFL. I think the NFL ownership group

(24:36):
is a different kind of ownership group. I think the fan base is different
than the in the NBA and theU and the NFL, and and the
leagues are different, you know,just culturally. Um, I think that
the NBA is a much more probablyculturally ford UH looking league. They get

(24:59):
a I often often has been describedas the Wokas league um uh. And
it's also you know, they boththough have a very high percentage of black
players. I mean, um,the NBA is is is over seventy five
between seventy five eighty percent black,and and the and the and the NFL

(25:22):
is close to seventy percent you know, um so and and we've also seen
in NFL kind of a a riseof of stardom in the signature position,
which is quarterback. And and sothat league is also changing, I mean
the league that the NFL has avery strong, um certainly a military uh

(25:47):
presence and lots of flyovers uh beforegames and and so I think reputationally the
leagues are are a lot different.But I think one thing you've noticed is
that the NFL has have been makingkind of steps to move in that in
the the other direction, right toto become um a lot more culturally relevant.

(26:14):
They they Jay Z was hired,you know, um and and brought
in as a as an advisor andand um has been involved with the league.
And so there have been there havebeen some things that the NFL has
done to you know, certainly torecognize that that they too need to make

(26:37):
some changes within their own uh culture, Sean, what about the w NBA
they often seem to be out therethat those players, the women players often
seem to be out there even forothers. Is that you know, Oh,
they do the economics different. Iwould assume they don't get paid as
well. But tell me what,why do you think that maybe the case

(26:57):
was that? Is that not acorrect assumption? Well, I don't think
they're necessarily being more vocal or beingmore politicized because they don't have the same
network and sponsorship stake. I justthink it's more in line with their player

(27:18):
profile. For one thing, thatleague and professional women's soccer has more people
that went all four years in college. Secondly, their fan base tends to
be more progressive, tends to bemore gender diverse and also gender relationship diverse.

(27:42):
For another thing, I think thatbecause those players also have other issues
where they feel underserved or where theyfeel discriminated against, it's logical for them
to be vocal because they don't haveas much to lose with the size network

(28:03):
following they have or the size corporatesponsors. But they may feel that since
they have to be out in frontof the issues around pay and other equity
issues anyway, they might as wellexpress themselves about social injustice. No,
that makes a lot of sense.Where do you think all of this is
taking us? I mean in termsof do you anticipate that we'll see more

(28:29):
of this kind of expression and willit carry over into other sports? And
they're they're fewer. There's less diversitynow I think in Major League Baseball than
there was some years ago. Youknow, at one time it was a
very significant Latin population playing that maybethere were significant African American players. They're

(28:51):
less diversity now as I see itwith baseball. Yeah, black players.
You know, it's been one ofthe thing to people like Hank Earn and
others who who you know, cameup and and you know, we're in
that dominant era where black players werewhere we saw the pipeline. You know,

(29:14):
have have expressed frustration at that.And you know, I think the
other thing about baseball is that ityou know, it's also been a league
in which, you know, someof the style and the swagger that you
see in other sports. You know, baseball is really you know, huge
to tradition and and uh, wejust don't see as many many players and

(29:40):
the pipeline not quite there. Andso um that said, you know,
there's been you know, some playersthat that have spoken up in baseball and
and I do think that this isa broader social justice you know movement.
I think players talked to each otherin different sports and and I think that's

(30:02):
you raised a really good, youknow question, Mayor, because I think
the more that that players start toalign across sports, the greater the influence
and impact that they can have.And I think some of that is happening,
and it probably hasn't happened to thedegree with which you know, um,
maybe it happened. You know,Bejan can speak to this in a

(30:23):
in a different era where players gettingtogether and from a cross section of sports.
You know, there's there's that youknow, famous photo of in the
Cleveland Summit when when athletes black athletesgathered to um, you know, support
Muhammad ali uh during his draft UMresistance. And there were players that got

(30:48):
together from different sports, notably basketballand football, and came together, you
know, across disciplines. And soyou know, I do think that that's
where that influence, you know,can can only grow the more that they
collect together. Yeah, which ofthese leagues is the most profitable. I
mean, you know, most ownersdo they make any money with their teams.

(31:11):
The NFL is the number one league, it's the biggest, you know,
the biggest league you know, inprofessional sports. But um, you
know they're all making money. Youknow, they're all very profitable leagues.
UM, I mean, you know, certainly the majors um sports, and
and so that that always is asource of of influence, right, economic

(31:37):
influences is um, you know wherewhere the real power to be able to
leverage that? And which of theunions are the most powerful within the league.
Yeah, that's what do you think? What do you think? You
know, I think that's that's athat's a awful and progressive or two different

(31:59):
things. You know. I'm justI'm just saying powerful first and then I'm
going to ask you about it.Then the second issue is progressive. Outside
of this issue, when it comesto negotiation or collective bargaining, you could
make a case that the baseball playersunion is the strongest and the most traditional.
The basketball players have the most powerover their contract guarantees and things of

(32:24):
that nature because it's a sport withfewer people that impact the team, and
also their faces are scene there's nohelmets, there's no head gear, there's
no face masking and things of thatnature. So the personalities are seen and
branded. But Michelle by Michelle Robertsbeing with the basketball players and her being

(32:45):
relatively progressive for a person in thatlevel of sport, that informs the whole
NBA outlook. It's arguable which ofthe of the unions is the strongest.
I would say football is probably thelesser of the three major And then obviously,
if you're a tennis and that sortof thing, you have your own

(33:07):
agent who negotiates. And because wehave obviously we've been talking about tennis players
who've also engaged in protest. Well, let me just sort of ask you
all sort of again as sort ofa final point, and quite apart from
sports, do you think that ourcountry is at an inflection point now?

(33:30):
I wonder do we ask the questionbecause we're all confined by COVID and we're
therefore our mind share is different thanit would be if we were out going
from place to place and preoccupied.Do you feel do you sense that we
are at a very important historic juncturein American history? Jean, I'll begin

(33:57):
with you. It's hard to sayin the moment, because we don't have
the advantage or retrospective, but notto dodge the question, I think in
some areas of measurement, we appearto be at a place that we were

(34:20):
not before. I do attribute alot of it to people being homebound,
especially in terms of what they wereable to consume on the news, what
they weren't able to consume, orat least not in the in the portions
that they're used to consuming it,and also their activities being restricted. Not
in the sense that I'm not creditingthe activists, and I'm not crediting organizers,

(34:44):
and I'm not crediting grief or distastewith the events, and distaste with
the violence against unarmed individuals. AndI don't think that there would have not
been anything, But I do thinkworldwide, beyond the boundaries of the US,
whether it be in terms of coverage, whether it be in terms of
who was free to go to avalley because they were furloughed or laid off,

(35:07):
whether it be in terms of toyour point, hyper focus, it's
difficult to determine how much of thisis sustainable and how much of it was
informed by fothe being homebound in marchAble in May. So I think moving

(35:28):
forward, I think we are ina different place. How much traction and
how much legs it has, obviouslywe can't really tell in the moment and
in the microcosm in terms of sport, I do think we've moved because even
the unpaid athletes and the Power fivecolleges are now starting to really understand their

(35:51):
leverage in ways that people have beentrying to explain to them for twenty or
thirty years. How about you,Kevin, I do think we're at an
inflection point. How long will thatlast is a question? You know.
I think that we've seen some remarkablethings happen, you know, and you
know, let's start in the inthe city that where we all are,

(36:14):
right in Washington, d C.Where we had UH the Washington Football team
UH an owner saying essentially over mydead body, you know, you know,
not those exact words, but itwas very oppositional to changing the name,
and that happened like so quickly,and it happened through a combination of

(36:37):
economic pressure, of of sponsors UHspeaking up, of owner, minority ownership
speaking up, and and and amplifyingwhat the protests have been and the next
thing we know, we're getting aname change, and that was in the
in the speed with which that happenedis reflective of the times you're in.

(36:58):
And we've seen other things like thatand NASCAR right right, which is anchored
in the heart of the South.Um, and to have them go against
the Confederate flag. We've seen anumber of things happen and we never would
have thought happened. And so tome, those are just indicators. They
don't say that, hey, thecountry hasn't changed and washed its hands overnight,

(37:22):
but it does to me mean thatwe're at a different kind of a
period and the opportunity exists to takethat, take these these gains in this
progress and and amplify it and makesome change that may become systemic over time.

(37:42):
Um. You know, I noticedthis. And you know in corporate
America, where where as we knowa lot of change really happens, you're
seeing a lot of the kind ofinternal you know, culture disruption that that
we haven't seen, you know before. Um, And so I'm hopeful about

(38:05):
that. And it's and I givecredit to the people in the streets you
always do. You know, it'sinteresting there because when we look out there
at the protests, we see howyoung the people are. They're they're more
multicultural, I think, than theywere in a different era. But but
they were young back in that era, right in the era of King and

(38:28):
John Lewis. Those folks were remarkablyyoung when they were leading that movement.
And the people out in the streetsand leading this movement out remarkably young and
hungry and eager, and they wantto make change, and they have some
of the same tactics, and theyhave some other tactics. And so I
do feel in the same way thatthat a different generation was able to It

(38:50):
took decades, right, but ableto press for change. This generation,
which is in a understandably and rightfullyin a hurry, I think we're seeing
some change being made for eyes tothe point of sustainability. Finally, Mayor
Proude, there was no digital socialmedia in Oscar Robinson's stay and John Carlos's
day and Arthur Ash's day. Sothe connectedness and the individual platform of the

(39:17):
athlete, individual following base of theathlete is different. You don't necessarily need
to be on meet the presser facethe nation. And also the fact that
in the particular case of the NBAplayers. Unlike the NFL players and unlike
the Major League Baseball players, theNBA players were all at the same location,
and I think them being all atthe same location plays some type of

(39:42):
role in terms of the morale aroundtheir decision to strike. No, no,
no, I've read that, andboth of you have been terrific.
I mean, you've really enriched Ithink our listening audience from where I sit
the grandmother on phone, we areat some important point in American history.

(40:06):
You know, we were at avery optimistic point as we were all gathered
for the sixty three March on Washington, you know, when King spoke.
But there is something different about theenergy that we see here today, and
both of you have helped us tobetter understand how that has played out in
the real profile of America, particularlyin the very important arena of sports.

(40:30):
So thank you Kevin, and thankyou Bijan. You have been wonderful and
we are honored here at IPP onAir to have had you both. Thank
you all and goodbye, Thank thankyou again for having you've been listening to
ipph on Air, hosted by formerWashington d C. Mayor Sharon Pratt IPPH

(40:52):
on air as a production of theInstitute of Politics, Policy and History at
the University of the District of Columbia. To reach us, comments or questions,
email us at info at ipp dotorg. Thanks for listening. You

(41:12):
can find more IPPH on air programlike Today's show with Kevin Moritta and Bejan
Bain wherever you listen to podcasts.But please don't forget to rate and review
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