November 27, 2024 • 48 mins
In March 2012, 23-year-old Derek Lueking vanished without a trace after visiting the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. His car was found abandoned at Newfound Gap, packed with survival gear, but with no sign of Derek. A strange note left in his car and conflicting accounts from those closest to him raise more questions than answers. Was Derek trying to escape his life, or was something more sinister at play?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome back to status pending. Scott Fuller and Heather Rights
back with you for another episode New Week. Thanksgiving Week. Heather,
how are you pretty good?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm excited to eat some turkey.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You'm happy Thanksgiving to everybody those who celebrate, and, like
Heather said before we started, if you don't just eat
some food, yeah, it can be your comfort food day. Yes,
I'm not a huge fan of turkey, to be honest,
it's fine. It's weird that we like worship this random
(01:00):
bird for one day.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, okay, sir. It's weird that the US worships hamburgers. Okay,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Hamburgers are kind of weird, it is.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But I'm fine with turkey and stuffing and mashed potatoes the.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Side all day. Yeah. The sides are great. Yeah, it's
Turkey's it's really hard to get right and it is,
but you're supposed to eat it. I prefer like lamb.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I've had lamb. It's good.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
What else is acceptable Thanksgiving alternatives?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Everybody that I've ever known growing up has always had
a ham for Christmas. Yeah, and the first time I
ever went to my in laws, they had a ham
for Thanksgiving, and unfortunately I don't eat ham because I
don't like the texture, because it's like rubber. So I
was nervous and embarrassed, and I did not want to
(01:51):
tell his mom. So I cut it up into small
pieces and swallowed it whole with my mashed potatoes. And
then my husband and his brother were laughing, and she
was like, what, what's wrong? Why you guys laughing? You
guys don't like my food. And then finally they told
her and she felt terrible that I ate the ham. Yeah,
I will make a turkey every year and she literally has,
(02:12):
and I'm like, don't do that to her.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It's a guilt trip that comes around every single year.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Now, yes, every year cause of you. Well now she
doesn't even host it. She doesn't even host Thanksgiving anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, yeah, I wouldn't either, everyone else having you over.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I know, I'm such an ass. I'm such an ass
for like being quiet and just eating it anyway, even
though I didn't.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Want to know that. That's really up to Jason. Jason's
supposed to hit that one off, and I tell it.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I told him. I told him that, like as soon
as we got there. He's like, oh man, I forgot,
And I was like don't say a word. We're already here.
So then they just laughed about it the whole time.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I'll be solo, so I'm going to make a something,
a steak or a Now that I said lamb, I'm
kind of thinking about lamb.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I kind of want to lamb too. Crabcase, Oh my god, crowdcakes. Dude,
we're coming to your house, so we'll put Courtney in
the car. We'll just drive up that way.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Come on over. There's plenty of room. At the moment,
I'm just dog sitting. But no, it's it's good. I
like being alone on Thanksgiving. It's just it feels like
you're cheating.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
He's like, I'm thankful for not having my family in
the house.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
It's kind of weird, counterintuitive, but I do that for
Father's Day too. We both do like Father's Day. The
day itself, I'm around the kids, and then I get
sometime around Father's Day, I get like a trip or
camping or fishing or something where I'm not with anybody.
So enjoy your Thanksgiving, whatever it might be. And we're
glad that you squeezed us in. We have a new
(03:42):
case this week. Last week we were talking about thinking
about a series revolving around people that go missing in
the Smoky Mountains specifically or the Appalachian Trail generally. And
the case we had last week came to our attention
because of that intention, but not it turned out not
to be the kind of what we had. It went
from this might be a missing hiker to a CIA
(04:04):
operative who may well be alive in Spain or something.
It was fun though this good case. It was wild.
No murder at least overtly in our case this week.
And this is more along the lines of what we
originally intended with the missing hiker idea. So we're going
to do that for you coming up next, all right,
(04:27):
Heather started work on this one. This is Derek Luking,
who disappeared in March of twenty twelve, That's when he
was last seen. And this, again is going to be
one of our maybe the first of a couple, perhaps
a missing hiker, missing National Parks kind of a series
that we're thinking about.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I mean, because obviously anyone who goes missing needs attention,
right but when I started looking into this, the numbers
are astronomical for people who went or who go missing
in this area. You say, a Appalachi. However people say it, yeah, yeah,
it's it's wild how many people. So I think that
(05:08):
we can put some you know, feelers out there and
put these cases out there for people to kind of
be on the lookout if you will. You know, it
could just be somebody who went hiking and got injured
and you know, something bad happened, or maybe something more nefarious.
So we're going to try to bring you guys a
couple of cases like that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I like these stories because they spend a lot of time,
especially many younger years outside in the wilderness.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And every Father's day and every Father's.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Day alone, And these cases tend to be the toughest
because they tend to have the fewest clues because usually
it's someone who doesn't plan to go missing. They park
the car, go for a hike, and that's the last
they've ever seen. So they're really interesting to me because
the enigma part of it, the mystery part of it,
is like there's all kinds of possibilities, but they're also
(05:56):
really frustrating because there's not usually a whole lot of information.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think that that's what piques people's interests. And I
hate to say it, but in these cases because there's
so much mystery around them, you know, there's so many
theories and people have so many thoughts. One little thing
can lead you down a rabbit hole. So we're just
going to give you what we could find fact wise,
(06:19):
and then maybe discuss a few theories. I think his
name is pronounced Luking. You said that, so that's what
I'm going with. But he was twenty three when he
was last seen leaving Charlotte, North Carolina, and he was
leaving a hotel and that was on March third, twenty twelve.
His car was found parked in the lower lot of
Newfound Gap at the state line. And you kind of
(06:41):
dug into that a little bit more. You said that
that's right off of the Appalachian Trail, Right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, it's apparently one of the higher elevations of the trail,
and the parking lot's pretty big. I mean it's it's
as big a trail ahead parking lot as you'll see
in a national park. So a lot of people around,
no question at all. His cars eventually found, and there's
there's no question that that was going to happen sooner
(07:09):
rather than later, because year round, it's pretty well trafficked.
But what's strange is as populated is this area generally
kind of is, you can get pretty remote within a
mile or two. And the same goes for this trailhead.
Like there's hundreds or maybe over a thousand people I
would guess who park there on an average day do
(07:31):
their day, hiken come back. But if you go far enough,
not very far, you know, a mile or so, you
could get pretty lost, especially if you go off trail.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That's actually really terrifying to think about, because you know,
we during the summer we like to find new parks
and trails and stuff. And typically we'll take either our
scooters or our electric bikes and then we'll walk part
of it and then you know, ride part of it.
But you know, every time we're out there and we're
paired up, we tend to go off the trail a
little bit just to like explore. But I can I
(08:00):
can't imagine doing it alone and then just you know,
getting turned around so quickly. It's so easy to do.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, we live in this is totally different out here,
but here in Central Wyoming we get a lot of it.
You know, That's why people live here and people travel
here to recreate doors and it never fails. Every year
two three four people go missing and usually they're found alive.
But a good rule of thumbis don't go alone like
you said, and you can get a beacon if you're
(08:28):
doing any kind of serious hiking where if something goes wrong,
they can find you immediately.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Good point.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Some people say bear spray out here. Some people carry firearms,
but all you really need, especially if your solo, is
just a beacon. This is not as rugged in this
part of the country down there and the Appalachian Trail,
but it's pretty it can get remote, and it's it's wilderness.
(08:55):
You're outdoors, out of your element where human beings aren't
modern human theyren't.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Supposed to be, right, right, that's where the animals live,
like that's right, Yeah, that's their home. They're used to it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
We're not popping into the zoo enclosure.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Basically, And you know what, sometimes it kind of feels
that way, like not to be funny about it or anything,
but you know, you're as a human, you're completely out
of your element. You're used to having everything at your fingertips.
Right when you're in the wilderness, it's to escape all
of that and when you do, sometimes you escape it
too much.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
And we're not used to it, like right, we're not
in modern society, especially like out here in elementary school,
if that was interesting, they teach in like second and
third grade, they teach survival skills.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
They do not do that here in class.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So it's a little more of a way of life.
But it doesn't mean that's the other thing is never
take for granted that you're you're a bad decision away
from being in real trouble. Right, That's when stuff tends
to happen is when you I've done this for years,
and when you're not worried about it, when you're too confident,
that's when bad stuff can happen.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Did not mean a side tangent. But but yeah, all
of that I agree with.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I get interest, Like he's just a remote area. This
parking area is not remote, but you hike on the trail,
you go off trail for a quarter half a mile
and you're all by yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, And I mean sometimes when you show up to
a parking lot like that, there are may be multiple
cars that were there before you got there, and then
they're still there when you're leaving. So you just never
know how long somebody intends to be out there, and
it could be just part of their routine. So when
he was last seen, he was believed to be wearing
a gray hooded sweatshirt, dark colored track pants with a
white stripe down the side of each leg, dark colored sneakers,
(10:35):
and possibly a waterproof watch. He was perhaps carrying camouflage
print real tree rain gear, as well as black or
dark blue book bag type day pack, so not like
a large book bag, but one that you would carry
with a few essentials, which kind of gives you the
inclination that he was planning to go on a hike
(10:55):
or something like that to where he would need a
few things with him, but wasn't planning on knock coming back.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, I think so too. And they figure out what
he had with him when he parked there. Yeah, and
they later figure out what was missing from the car,
what was still in the car, which is kind of
confusing that we'll get to. But yes, he's not carrying
like a backpack that would contain a tent, a sleeping
bag and a stove or whatever. He's like a book
bag day right.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
He is described as five eleven and weighing two hundred
and twenty pounds, with green eyes, brown hair, and a
short beard. He may have worn prescription eyeglasses with metal
rims at the time, and he has stretch marks on
his lower back and a tattoo of Japanese characters meaning
live or life on his upper chest. If he was
found today, the day that we're recording this, he would
(11:42):
be thirty seven years old, So he's still young enough
to be like alive and well if he just took
off for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
But it's only ten twelve years ago something like that.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right, and he's like still relatively young, Like there's a
definite chance, but it's more slow obviously with the technology
that we have today, but there's some hope. He was
reported missing two weeks after he was last seen, and
we'll kind of touch on that a little bit later too,
because the dates kind of confused me a little. I
don't know if they confused you as well, but I
want to talk about that a little later.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I think it's confusing because they're not sure firm timeline,
like when he parked there. Yeah, and there's a sighting
that you talk about that's like weeks before he's reported missing.
That's confusing.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, and his job. So that's the thing that
really gets me too. But let's just take it back
a little bit and learn a little bit more about
who Derek was or is. I couldn't find a whole lot.
I did find that he was born in northern Virginia
and graduated from Johnson University, which is formerly known as
Johnson Bible College in Knoxville. He worked as an orderly
(12:49):
for Peninsula Behavioral Health Center, and I believe that was
in Knoxville. I didn't quite confirm that. I didn't have
much more than that. I didn't have anything about his childhood.
I don't know what you found though.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Not much. But he shows up like on some honor
rolls in middle school and high school, and he was
given a four H award, which was the Virginia four
H All Star Award in two thousand and three. So
he was very active in extracurriculars as well. Not sure
about sports, but at least you know four H. I'm
(13:22):
a big four H fan. I think that's good for
a lot of kids. Teaches a lot of valuable lessons
and personal responsibility and accountability and all kinds of life skills.
So overachieving student I think, and then graduates from college.
So don't know anything about his childhood other than that.
I'm not sure his family is really said a whole lot,
but seems to me average kid, good grades, you.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Know, okay, just a typical I think, so average.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, seems like it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, I didn't see anything either. That kind of struck
me as Okay, that's something you should be concerned about
when he grows up, Like, I didn't see anything out
there like that.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You don't if anything like that does exist, As we know,
some of that can be kind of sugarcoated and whitewashed
after they go missing too. Yeah, so it's hard to tell.
And it's always hard to tell if you don't know
a person, doesn't matter how much reporting has done on them. Yeah,
it's any one of us, you know. Put you in
a newspaper article and tried to describe you in two
(14:21):
hundred words, it's not going to be adequate.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It won't be nice. They're going to call me the
be word in your case.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
She was She was determined, I think is the code
word for what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
She dimmed a room when she walked into it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
The light bulbs actually exploded overhead.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, that totally tracks, though. You really just need that
information from closest family, I think to really get an idea.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I think family members' perceptions change when a person goes
missing because you're thinking about all your regrets and you're
missing the you're missing some of their negative quote unquote
personality traits too, But I don't I think universally people
are just seen different when something tragic happens to them,
or in this case, if they go missing it are
(15:12):
never found and there's that limbo.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, yeah, the perception, but there are facts still surrounding
each person. So I think that the family would really
be helpful and sharing those type of facts like how
you said he was on the Hona roll, he was
in these extracurriculars like those are facts that can be
looked up. I think that that would give more insight
to the type of person he was too, if they
had more information like that. Yeah, I mean, so that's
(15:35):
all we really had about him growing up other than
his nickname was Drock Drock and he often went by
DJ not enough, but you know, that's definitely something that
was more personal to him. So at least we have
that when talking about his disappearance. It's where I did
get a little bit confused with the timeline, because in
the beginning we did say that he was last seen
(15:57):
leaving on March third, twenty twelve, But after further digging,
I found that on March fifteenth, twenty twelve, he didn't
show up for work and calls to a cell phone
went unanswered. A mutual friend informed Derek's roommate, Ryan Moulden,
that Derek didn't show up for work on that morning,
and that's when Ryan called Derek's family to let them
know that he couldn't be reached and never showed up
(16:19):
for work. I guess my thought on that was his
family must have known that something was a miss because
they drove straight through the night from Virginia to Tennessee.
But it kind of made me wonder why they felt
the need to drive up right away if that was
the first day that he hadn't been heard from or
hadn't shown up to work, Because did he already take
off of work and not tell anyone? Was his roommate
(16:40):
not concerned from the third through the fifteenth of where
he was, Yeah, That's where I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I would lean more toward the fifteenth than the third.
I'm not sure what the third was.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
But then other articles said that he was reported missing
two weeks later, like two weeks after he had actually
gone missing, is when he was reported. So that's where
I was like.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Where okay?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, yeah, so that's where I'm just like, if if
they drove up straight away that night when they found
out he didn't show up for work, was it because
they already had a feeling in their guts they already
knew something about him that nobody else did, and they
were concerned that something had happened. Yeah, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, it would be nice to know. I guess it's
good that they found his car really quickly because it
was in a very popular, busy area of the park.
What we don't we know that. What we don't know
is it seems a little foggy on the two weeks
before he went missing, Like where is he? Is he
shown it for work? Is he seen by people? Is
he staying at home? Is he staying somewhere else? That
(17:42):
I don't know?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, And that's just what made me scratch my head
over and over and over again with it. I just
don't like when things don't align because I just feel
like there's so many answers, even if a day is different,
Like I don't know, they did go to the hotel,
the family did, and they found a bible and on
the floor was a liquor bottle. And I believe that
same night they found or that same day they found
(18:06):
his car, correct in that parking area of Newfound Gap.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think it was the fifteenth. The surveillance video shows
him leaving one of the hotels. At least he stayed
at the seventeenth, right, so he's obviously not parked and
in the park on the fifteenth. If he's leaving the
hotel on the seventeenth, I think so, Yeah, they may have.
They may have found his car a couple of days later.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I think the thing that was the same day
was where they found his car the same day that
they viewed the surveillance footage or something. Sure you did
look up some weather conditions for that time, because here
in Ohio, March is still pretty cold, So I mean
even in Tennessee, I would think it would be a
little bit colder. Doesn't seem like it not.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
That week, So March eighteenth, I just went from the
seventeenth which is when the surveillance camera season leaving, So
March eighteenth is an overnight low of sixty and a
high temperature is seventy nine, and then temps of the
next two days are mid to upper fifties at night
and then low eighties during the day. And this whole
time at least at the nearest weather reporting station, which
(19:15):
doesn't mean it didn't rain there where he was, but
not a whole lot of rain, like I think maybe
a third of an inch over those three days, and
the winds are five ten miles an hour here and there. Survivable,
right a twenty three year old young man not safe necessary.
(19:36):
You can get hypothermic in those conditions. All it takes
is warmth being taken away from your body, and obviously
your core temperature is warmer than the outside in these conditions,
So he could theoretically still get hypothermic in like fifty
sixty seventy degree even temperature, but it would take a lot.
(19:58):
It's a lot more serve for him than it could
have been.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So when they went out and found his car, it
was a white Ford escape in the parking lot of
an area called Newfound Gap. They did find some items
in his car, And you know, I kind of listed
the items that were found, but you found a bit
more information, so I'm going to let you share that.
But it was basically a kit that he had, like
a survival kit that he had purchased all these items
(20:24):
to kind of put together himself, right, So.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
He bought like a after the fifteenth. He bought one
thousand plus dollars worth of stuff. Some of it was
taken from the car when they found the car, some
of it was not. Some of it was still in
the car. Once they got to the vehicle. They found
inside a compass, a lamp, a pocket knife, knife, sharpen
or a tent, sleeping bag, one hundred feet of black
(20:48):
parachute cord, a survival belt containing several tools, a flashlight,
and a fire starter. All that was still in the car,
in addition to his sleeping bag in his tent. But
he had taken some things with him, and the stuff
he took with him is more we'll get to, but
it's more like a day hike kind of a thing.
So I don't know what that's about. And that's kind
(21:09):
of a mystery in the case because the only evidence
is what was in the car and what was missing
from the car, So his intentions get kind of strange
at that point.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
He purchased all of the stuff for a reason, but
then leaving it all behind. Was that intentional? Was he
planning to come back to his car grab all of it?
Something bad happened. Was he taken against his will? Because
my thought was, Okay, he purchased all this stuff, he
had a whole plan, and then maybe he kind of
went out there with a day pack with just a
(21:39):
few items to kind of scout the area, if you will,
and see if that's the route that he wants to take,
and maybe he got turned around, maybe he got lost
out there. He wasn't intending to not come back to
his truck.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
So my first thought when I saw kind of that
list was this is like if you've never been hiking
in your life and you read a list of all
the stuff you need. He went out and pought all
of it. Not hiking, but say backpacking. Say you're going
to be there three four days in the woods. You
could drop someone in the woods with half of that
(22:11):
stuff and you'd survive. You could. You would want all
the stuff, but you don't need all of the stuff
that he brought with him. So his list is like,
I'm not going for a day hike. I'm going to
like hike the Appalation Trail. Except missing is a backpack,
like a legit hiking backpacking backpack. I didn't see that anywhere.
(22:35):
And that's where you carry your tents, your sleeping bag,
your stove, all this stuff. You can't fit all that
in a regular sized book bag backpack. The people that
do hike the Appalation Trail, they'll have those huge packs.
He didn't seem to have one of those. So I'm
not sure what his intention was. But my first reaction
(22:55):
was he went, like on a scouting or something, I
mean to check it out first come back.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
That's kind of what my thought was.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But I'm not convinced to that, and I don't I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It just seems like that's most likely. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I like, I like to take the trails and stuff,
but I've never like gone actual like hiking where you
take all this stuff with you. So if I sound ignorant,
I'm sorry, But like, what is the parachute cord for?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You could use that for anything that you could use
a rope for. Basically it's just like a rope. It's
a sturdy rope.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay, that's what I thought. Maybe, but I was like,
I'm I've never done this, so maybe it's something more special. Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, there's nothing I don't think unique to the parachute cord.
It's just if you're going to pick a cord like that,
parachute cords need to not break because they're attached to
people falling through the air. So yeah, yeah, I would
guess they're kind of sturdy. It's it's good to have. Yeah,
you can use it for all. You could use it
for one hundred different things. But again, that's not something
you necessary really need you'd want to have it.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But so what if we told you that something else
was found in his car, like a little note. This
note said don't look for me m What are your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
On that they also found there his wallet and his keys,
his car key.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So I'm friendly with SSAAR people out here, and they'll
tell you if you find a note, it's going to
be bad. If you find a note in the car,
you're not going to like what you find when you
find the person.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
That's my fear, because you know when you when you
think about that note, would it originally like it had
you not thought about the Essaar people, would it change
your mind about what could have happened that day? Like
could it mean that he wanted to disappear without anyone
finding him? Was he experiencing suicidal ideations? It kind of
brings me back to the question of mental health concerns
(24:53):
because we don't know anything about that, Like was he
suffering from mental illness? Was it undiagnosed? Was he really
offering in that moment and nobody really knew and he
just felt like he needed to do this and you know,
unfortunately take his own life. I don't know, So I.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Think we can jump to that conclusion or at least
as a theory, because it's the only thing that we
can think of. Like, his actions are irrational, it doesn't
appear to make sense, so maybe there was something going
on there. On the other hand, no one's ever said
that he did have any kind of mental health either.
He was considered high risk by the Forest Service in
(25:29):
the first days or maybe a week after they said
something like. The investigation revealed that this twenty three year
old operator was believed to be despondent is the word
that they used. But are they getting that because Mom
said so? Are they getting that because the note in
the car made them think he doesn't want to be found?
(25:49):
And again, the people that volunteers in the pros that
do this, when you find a note in the car
doesn't matter almost what the note says, it's not going
to be good when you find the person. But they
always find They almost always find the person, and he
hasn't been found.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That was kind of my hang up with it too,
because usually usually, I say, but it's.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Ninety five percent they find them. Are you alive when
they find you? It's maybe different, but usually you're alive.
Almost never has anything to do with animals, but they
they'll find you eventually. But it's again, ninety five percent
in this case falls in that five percent.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, And I mean, you know, we're looking at his
age too. He was twenty three twenty four at the time,
so you know, there's also that possibility that he was
experiencing symptoms of depression or maybe even schizophrenia, bipolar disorder,
generalized anxiety like all kinds of things, and depression is
we as we know, often underdiagnosed in young men and
(26:49):
often leads to men more so than women to commit suicide,
you know, and sometimes they'll try to treat themselves with
substances such as drugs and alcohol. I'm not saying that's
what happened here, just saying it is a possibility, especially
after you hear that his dad came forward that same
year and said that he had noticed a change in
his son, saying, quote, he started drinking a little bit
(27:11):
and smoking cigarettes, which was highly unusual for him. He
wasn't happy with his job, where his life was going
end quote, so he just kind of, you know, he
told the media. He assumed Derek was dealing with postgraduation
stress and transition to adulthood. Many parents would assume that
and kind of write it off as like, oh, these
are just kind of like growing pains. But maybe he
(27:34):
didn't know the full extent. If Derek was suffering, I'm
sure he was trying to hide it, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Bex's. On the one hand, when the family notes a
behavior change, you want to listen to that. On the
other hand, if the behavior change is drinking and smoking cigarettes,
just because you drinking smoke cigarettes doesn't mean you're depressed, right.
It was unusual for him so the family has noticed something,
but he's it's it's not definitive that he's struggling with
(28:03):
anything that's really serious, but he could have been.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And you know, his family and friends did dispute that
he had any severe depression or suicidal tendencies which would
have caused him to kill himself. But you know, there
are thoughts and opinions that the note left in his
car could have even been by someone trying to throw
off authorities. I don't know if I buy into that one,
but you know, stranger things have happened. I don't know
(28:27):
what your thoughts are on that, but it just seems
kind of ballsy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I think you have to look into it. You can't
just say, well, Derek left the note here.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
No. Obviously, obviously, but it just doesn't feel like, with
the information that we have, that that was looked into
as a possibility.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I saw it stated like if he did write the
note from people who were searching for him, not just
from Reddit. But gotcha, there's no reason to believe he didn't.
I think it was just that the handwriting couldn't be
match necessary. Gotcha, there was what quind to prove that
he wrote it. No reason to think he didn't, though.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So they did search intensively. They searched in the area
where his car was found. Rangers interviewed campers and hikers
in the vicinity asking whether they had seen him. Reportedly,
though no one could remember seeing him. Despite it being
very sunny that day, the area had plenty of people picnicking, hiking,
you know, all the things, and because of this, authorities
(29:27):
believed that he might have gone off trail immediately after
leaving his car and quickly got lost or intentionally avoided
people in the area to avoid detection. Although there were
reports of possible sighting among Newfound Gap Road, potentially where
he entered the woods, nothing ever came of it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I think that's a fair assumption because if he did,
one theory would be he was really into bear grylls
and the survivalist thing, kind of like the show it's
a history show now, like Alive or something like that. Yeah,
where they dropping in Alaska until to say, uncle, I
get you. So he was really into that stuff, and
(30:05):
if that's what he was trying to prove to himself
is so to speak, he wouldn't have just hiked along
the trail with the six year olds and the moms
and dads. He would want to go experience the woods,
but he also wasn't equipped to do that, at least
not for an extended period of time. So here's what
he had with him. He bought all this stuff, but
most of it's in the car. He brought a day pack,
(30:27):
some items maybe from the Bear Grill survival pack and acts,
several pages from a military survival manual, and a headlamp,
and some granola bars, which is fine for a day hike.
That's fine for a full day hike, but what happens
when you have to sleep somewhere and seek shelter and
then get food for the next day and so on.
(30:47):
So he was fine for a day hike, but all
his survival stuff really that you really need is back
of the car.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
When the search happened, there were about sixty people on
three dog team that were assigned to continue searching for him.
They had been organized into fourteen search teams that had
walked more than seventy miles of trails surrounding that parking area,
which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, that's a pretty good search. And usually you're on
the trail, it's usually with the for anyone that's curious.
The first thing they do is they send up a
hasty team, which is like go up there on ATVs
and just see if he can find the person right away,
and then the people behind them kind of do the
grid search like you see on TV. That's usually how
they find you. That's like ninety percent because you twist
(31:34):
an ankle is what usually happens or something like that.
You're not intentionally going off the trail. If you do,
it's going to take a little bit longer to find somebody.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
About the dogs, because we've talked about search dogs before
the weather in this area, were there any concerns about
how they would be able to track him at all?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
So it's noted somewhere that they were worried that the
heavy rains might hinder the search dogs a bill. But
those three days of the weather forecast, there's almost no rain. Yeah,
So was it before or was it in the week after?
Maybe it was. It was an intensive search for seven days.
At least, it was such an intensive search. They found
something else that they weren't looking for that we'll get
(32:16):
to a minute. But it was pretty well searched, and
it doesn't strike me either as unusual that nobody remembers
seeing alone average looking twenty three year old guy. Yeah,
I think you have a better chance of remembering them
if there are fewer people there, because you would note,
you would note more of the interactions that you have
with people, as opposed to there like three hundred people
(32:36):
at this parking area, so you're not going to remember,
you know, a random, average looking kid with a backpack.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I thought about that earlier too, and you know, we
were kind of going over that section because I'm like,
I don't think I would even remember that. But so,
these trail search teams explored basically any area along the
trail where it would appear relatively easy to get off
the trail into the woods, and once off trail, the
teams would look for tracks or clues that anybody had
(33:04):
passed through that way, which smart you know. They continued
into the woods until they reached a point where it
was either unsafe to continue, or until they reached some
sort of barrier such as I don't even know how
to say the word. I know it's a plant. It's
like rhodendron thickets, Like I think that's how you say it.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I think rhododendron something like that. But it's like really
really thick area. So that's, you know, where they thought
Derek could not have gone without leaving some type of
evidence of him going through that area. So that's you know,
they I feel like they searched as extensively as they
possibly could in.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
That situation, and so for that week, and they had
some aerial support, they have the dogs, they had a
lot of searchers there. When you're looking off trail, it
becomes a lot harder. But so you can't say he's
not there, can't. You can't say that. But if he
was just day hiking like you think an average person would,
(34:03):
they should have found him with that search. So that
leads me to think either he's no longer anywhere in
the area at all, or he did go off trail
and something happened and that's what happened to him.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Let's fast forward just a little bit. Things get a
little bit more strange with this case because several months
after Derek's disappearance, a backpack and then subsequently human remains
were discovered in the Great Smoking Mountains National Park. Both
were found close to the area where he disappeared, but
the body wasn't Derek's. The remains were found to be
(34:35):
Michael Giovanni Cocockney something like that. I'm sorry, I butchered that.
He was twenty three Kaccini. There we go see words names.
Michael was last seen on Sunday, March eighteenth, twenty twelve,
and while searching for Derek, rangers located Michael's abandoned car
(35:00):
parked at a walkway along Newfound Gap Road, which was
about a mile south of the park's sugar Lands visitor Center.
And that was on March twentieth, So within two days, yeah,
within two days of finding of him going missing, his
car was found, but his body wasn't. That's where I
got confused on it.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I think they found his body during that week during
the search, so they found a car first. And as
you said, this isn't like he's not in the woods.
And I never found to cause of death for Michael.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Kacchini me neither.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
It may have been a suicide because he's a young
guy as well, and he's not in the wilderness area.
He's like in the tourist area. So I don't know
what happened to him, but it's highly highly coincidental. I
think that's what it is. But it's really random and
rare to have like two men, same age basically missing
(35:54):
in the same within a mile of each other. That's
highly suspicious. But there's no lane that we know of.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, I wasn't able to find any links either, And
I just thought it was interesting how they said that
where his car was found. It was just so weird
place to leave your car because they mentioned how the
walkway Sure Easy trail extends to the woods very short distance.
People typically didn't leave their vehicles there overnight, So I
(36:21):
just found that, you know, kind of red flaggy.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
It kind of seems like he parked there wanting to
harm himself. That's kind of what it seems like. Who knows,
but yeah, they'll the rangers will do, you know, a
couple of times a day, hit all the parking areas
and they kind of know this is a day hike one,
so if there's a car there overnight, that could be
a big deal. Whereas different trailheads, they'll keep an eye
(36:45):
out for a week or two weeks. And the smart
thing to do too, if you're going to be gone
for a week is to go into the ranger station,
say I'm driving a Ford Escort. It's parked right there.
I'm planning to be gone for a week, and just
so you guys know, and they'll note that and write
that down. Keep an eye out for it.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
See, you know all the park rules. I just show up,
I go on the trail. I'm like, oh shit, it's dark.
I'm leaving.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Like there was a time I wouldn't do it anymore,
but yeah, I've done. I've done seven day backpacks.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Okay, that's terrifying. I probably would never do that with
my paranoid brain.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
It's yeah, I mean, well that's why you do it though,
Like the change in perspective, the unplugging and getting back
to your roots as a human being. Of you know,
we're supposed to be more connected with nature than we
are today.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
That's fair, that's great, that's beautiful. But I'm not getting
killed out there.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
It's I mean, everything's dangerous. But yeah, it's you have
to again with You have to approach it with some knowledge,
some experience as you gain it, and humility above all
those and fun.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Take somebody with you, yeah, and a partner.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But there's nothing else quite like it. It's it's a
really cool experience. As you get older, more bad things
can happen to you. So I'm not sure I do
something like that again. But yeah, familiar with all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You might throw out a hip next time you go.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Careful not that old.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Come on, okay, all right, theories, What do we have
for this guy?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
All right, check this out. You're gonna like this. The
UK Daily Star has this article of legends of wild
feral people living in this National park.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Hills have Eyes.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Dozens of alleged sightings of cannibals living deep in the
Appalachian backwoods, where the descendants of men who deserted from
the American Civil War. I love this, Oh my god,
said to live independently, completely removed from civilization. There's a podcaster,
Donnie Laws, who said the first reports of any wild
man in the US was about eighteen seventy seven Western
(38:45):
North Carolina gold miners ran into this wild feral man.
They followed him back to like a cave and there's
all kinds of bones. Oh my god, Yeah, isn't this
it's And if you scroll down, there's an artist's likeness
of who we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
These Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Handsome devil.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There no no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
But are you familiar with this at all?
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I'm familiar with the hills have eyes, and that sounds exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Like what about the Jackson Whites.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I've heard of that. I did not know what that was.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, it's kind of the same thing. But the idea
is I love the descendants of the Civil War thing.
But the idea is they live by themselves. They're like
primitive eight people pretty much. Yeah, and they're all inbred.
So the eyes get closer together, is what they say.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So that's the only thing.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
That's the only I'm sure there are other side effects
too that aren't good, but that these and there are
stories I'm not sure if any of them are true,
but stories of like you hike with your girlfriend overlooking
a waterfall, you look down and you see this naked
guy who's got blood all over his face. No, stuff
like that. I doubt it's but I just love the
(39:57):
idea that their wilderness, wild people living in now.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I believe it though, Like, honestly, this is something that
I can get behind that I think it's absolutely.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
True and say it's not true.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I think, how are all these people missing? They're probably
being eaten by these people.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
It's kind of hard to imagine in the modern age
that we live in, but not really when you get
it gets kind of strange down there.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
In that part of the country.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I don't know, maybe.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I believe it. We're gonna have to dig into this.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
That's a there's a fun rabbit hole of I think
it's West Virginia. There's a documentary called The Soft White
Underbelly about an inbred family.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I know that family, well, not personally, but like we sorry, no,
we walk from that. No that we watched that channel
on YouTube. We watched that channel. This guy, this YouTuber
became very close to this family, like and they are
in bread and he like will bring them items and
come and see them and have dinners with them. Yeah,
it's a whole thing. We were watching that channel for
(40:56):
like a year.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
What it is, But there's something fascinating about so fascinating. No,
I don't think that's what happened to Derek, but well
I don't either. But that's a theory that came from
the highly esteemed journalistic bastion in the UK Star. But
it was a fun theory. Aside from that, I mean,
what do you think, what do you think is most
likely most likely.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I mean, without really knowing anything, I kind of feel
like he may have been suffering from depression or something
and just could have gone out there to end his
life unfortunately. Or the only other thing I can think
is he went out there, got turned around, didn't plan
on not coming back. But that doesn't explain the note, right,
That's where that's what throws me off, because I could
(41:40):
totally see if the note didn't exist. I could totally
see that being purely accidental and something happening, like he
hurt himself and then no help came, and now he's
just you know, part of the earth.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
That's probably most likely, I think. But the notes, the note,
I keeping in mind he's twenty three, Yeah, like I
would see it differently if he were older. I get
the poll, I get the draw of let me go
prove myself, let me reset my perspective, because this is
the same thing every day, basically adulting. I just don't
(42:16):
like it. So I'm going to go, you know, pursue
my interest in survivability or whatever it is. I get that.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
And so you think that he could have written the
note like don't look for me. I'm going to prove
to myself. I can do this kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Just leave me alone. Because they were calling his cell
phone this whole time, like from the fifteenth through the eighteenth,
he's ignoring calls.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, that I just so he's.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Like, don't find me, leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So that was his phone found, It wasn't was it?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No, the wallet McKee, We're found. But that doesn't disclude
mental illness either, because he's behaving in a way that
is abnormal and irrational. Is that because he's an adventurous
twenty three year old who's looking to prove himself as
he becomes a or is that because he's suffering from
some kind of mental ailment that doesn't allow him to
(43:09):
survive the way your brain's supposed to behave if you're
in that situation. Probably most likely he died out there.
It's just really strange that he didn't even really give
it a go. You know, he didn't bring his stuff,
And maybe it could be as simple as he figured out,
I don't have a backpack for all this stuff, so
I don't know. It's obviously it's a mistery. It is.
(43:33):
I mean, because he's young and he's going to live.
The sad part for me aside from his family, especially
since they never found him or can say what happened.
He would not have died quickly, very likely it would
have taken a while, and not in a fun way
(43:53):
because he's very young. Whether it's fine, as interested as
he is in survival, I've seen those shows and I
can tell you it's different. It's not the same thing.
And if you go into the woods looking for trouble,
it's kind of a vibe I get from him if
you're looking for that, so you can overcome this obstacle
(44:15):
that's not gonna that's not gonna go well, there's enough
that can go wrong anyway, you don't have to go
looking for it. But I don't think it's a setup.
I don't think the scene was staged and someone else
killed him. I don't think he was eaten by cannibals
from the Civil War. I think he probably found what
(44:35):
he was looking for. And I'm not sure about mental
illness or not.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But I hate not have any answers.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
It's weird he hasn't been found, like there are cases
like that, but there was one in Colorado, just like
weeks ago, of some hiker up on Holy Cross. I
think in Colorado that went missing like in the seventies,
and they gave this one area another search and they
(45:03):
founder her bones obviously, But yeah, you can have a
full scale search and not find somebody. Search and rescue
people say well, we'll find you, and they generally do.
But there's a lots of there's lots of woods if
you're off trail like that, so he very well. I
think Okham's razor is he went to the woods unprepared,
(45:24):
maybe looking for a fight, and who knows what happened.
The other possibility that his family must have hung on
to is that this is all staged and he just
hit a reset button on his life and he's still
alive somewhere.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
That would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I think possible too, because every time I say it's
not someone pops us.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
We'll say it's not then and maybe he'll come back.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, well he then he would be like a thirty
sweat thirty seven year old dad in Ohio or something.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Oh my god, what if he's my neighbor live.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
In this random, average life. That's possible. It's I have
a hard time with that theory because what about the family.
You're leaving your family and friends in limbo for a
decade plus.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yes, you say that, but there are so many families
out there that are so dysfunctional and you're better off
without being a part of their lives, and maybe this
was better off for him. It's sad for his family,
but we don't know what was going on, and you know,
if that's a possibility that he would have been better
off without him, we have no idea. So the people
(46:28):
who do leave their families for whatever reasons they have,
maybe it was better for them.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
It seems possible a scenario where he does go out
for a couple of days and tries it out and
realizes this isn't going well and not as much fun
as I thought, and then just you know, walks back,
hitches a ride and who knows where he is. Now.
That's hard to do, though, I mean, logistically that's hard
to do, but you could.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
You keep saying that it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Foreign to me, it's so weird, but it does happen.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
I mean, just have to be smart about it.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, Yce, smart about what was your gesius name?
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Exactly? I'm just going to root for him. I mean,
they never found his body, so hopefully he is still
alive and well out there.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
I'm sure that's what the family's thinking in some way.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, gotta hold on to the hope.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
So there is Derek Luking and we'll see if we
do another one of these or something similar. There are
a lot of outside the Appalachian Trail, there are a
lot of these cases, so it's kind of fun. I
like that kind of a story, as frustrating as they
always are.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah, but again it gets it out there. Yep, more
people can hear about it.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
All right, Patreon time, Heather and I right now will
record our first season five Unsolved Mysteries recap. So if
you haven't watched that, go watch that and then become
a Patreon supporter and you can join us for that.
Aside from that, enjoy your all day and we'll talk
at you soon.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Bye mm hmm
Welcome back to status pending. Scott Fuller and Heather Rights
back with you for another episode New Week. Thanksgiving Week. Heather,
how are you pretty good?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I'm excited to eat some turkey.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
You'm happy Thanksgiving to everybody those who celebrate, and, like
Heather said before we started, if you don't just eat
some food, yeah, it can be your comfort food day. Yes,
I'm not a huge fan of turkey, to be honest,
it's fine. It's weird that we like worship this random
(01:00):
bird for one day.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, okay, sir. It's weird that the US worships hamburgers. Okay,
that's true.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Hamburgers are kind of weird, it is.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
But I'm fine with turkey and stuffing and mashed potatoes the.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Side all day. Yeah. The sides are great. Yeah, it's
Turkey's it's really hard to get right and it is,
but you're supposed to eat it. I prefer like lamb.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I've had lamb. It's good.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
What else is acceptable Thanksgiving alternatives?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Everybody that I've ever known growing up has always had
a ham for Christmas. Yeah, and the first time I
ever went to my in laws, they had a ham
for Thanksgiving, and unfortunately I don't eat ham because I
don't like the texture, because it's like rubber. So I
was nervous and embarrassed, and I did not want to
(01:51):
tell his mom. So I cut it up into small
pieces and swallowed it whole with my mashed potatoes. And
then my husband and his brother were laughing, and she
was like, what, what's wrong? Why you guys laughing? You
guys don't like my food. And then finally they told
her and she felt terrible that I ate the ham. Yeah,
I will make a turkey every year and she literally has,
(02:12):
and I'm like, don't do that to her.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It's a guilt trip that comes around every single year.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Now, yes, every year cause of you. Well now she
doesn't even host it. She doesn't even host Thanksgiving anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Well, yeah, I wouldn't either, everyone else having you over.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I know, I'm such an ass. I'm such an ass
for like being quiet and just eating it anyway, even
though I didn't.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Want to know that. That's really up to Jason. Jason's
supposed to hit that one off, and I tell it.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
I told him. I told him that, like as soon
as we got there. He's like, oh man, I forgot,
And I was like don't say a word. We're already here.
So then they just laughed about it the whole time.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
I'll be solo, so I'm going to make a something,
a steak or a Now that I said lamb, I'm
kind of thinking about lamb.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I kind of want to lamb too. Crabcase, Oh my god, crowdcakes. Dude,
we're coming to your house, so we'll put Courtney in
the car. We'll just drive up that way.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Come on over. There's plenty of room. At the moment,
I'm just dog sitting. But no, it's it's good. I
like being alone on Thanksgiving. It's just it feels like
you're cheating.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
He's like, I'm thankful for not having my family in
the house.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
It's kind of weird, counterintuitive, but I do that for
Father's Day too. We both do like Father's Day. The
day itself, I'm around the kids, and then I get
sometime around Father's Day, I get like a trip or
camping or fishing or something where I'm not with anybody.
So enjoy your Thanksgiving, whatever it might be. And we're
glad that you squeezed us in. We have a new
(03:42):
case this week. Last week we were talking about thinking
about a series revolving around people that go missing in
the Smoky Mountains specifically or the Appalachian Trail generally. And
the case we had last week came to our attention
because of that intention, but not it turned out not
to be the kind of what we had. It went
from this might be a missing hiker to a CIA
(04:04):
operative who may well be alive in Spain or something.
It was fun though this good case. It was wild.
No murder at least overtly in our case this week.
And this is more along the lines of what we
originally intended with the missing hiker idea. So we're going
to do that for you coming up next, all right,
(04:27):
Heather started work on this one. This is Derek Luking,
who disappeared in March of twenty twelve, That's when he
was last seen. And this, again is going to be
one of our maybe the first of a couple, perhaps
a missing hiker, missing National Parks kind of a series
that we're thinking about.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
I mean, because obviously anyone who goes missing needs attention,
right but when I started looking into this, the numbers
are astronomical for people who went or who go missing
in this area. You say, a Appalachi. However people say it, yeah, yeah,
it's it's wild how many people. So I think that
(05:08):
we can put some you know, feelers out there and
put these cases out there for people to kind of
be on the lookout if you will. You know, it
could just be somebody who went hiking and got injured
and you know, something bad happened, or maybe something more nefarious.
So we're going to try to bring you guys a
couple of cases like that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I like these stories because they spend a lot of time,
especially many younger years outside in the wilderness.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
And every Father's day and every Father's.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Day alone, And these cases tend to be the toughest
because they tend to have the fewest clues because usually
it's someone who doesn't plan to go missing. They park
the car, go for a hike, and that's the last
they've ever seen. So they're really interesting to me because
the enigma part of it, the mystery part of it,
is like there's all kinds of possibilities, but they're also
(05:56):
really frustrating because there's not usually a whole lot of information.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I think that that's what piques people's interests. And I
hate to say it, but in these cases because there's
so much mystery around them, you know, there's so many
theories and people have so many thoughts. One little thing
can lead you down a rabbit hole. So we're just
going to give you what we could find fact wise,
(06:19):
and then maybe discuss a few theories. I think his
name is pronounced Luking. You said that, so that's what
I'm going with. But he was twenty three when he
was last seen leaving Charlotte, North Carolina, and he was
leaving a hotel and that was on March third, twenty twelve.
His car was found parked in the lower lot of
Newfound Gap at the state line. And you kind of
(06:41):
dug into that a little bit more. You said that
that's right off of the Appalachian Trail, Right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah, it's apparently one of the higher elevations of the trail,
and the parking lot's pretty big. I mean it's it's
as big a trail ahead parking lot as you'll see
in a national park. So a lot of people around,
no question at all. His cars eventually found, and there's
there's no question that that was going to happen sooner
(07:09):
rather than later, because year round, it's pretty well trafficked.
But what's strange is as populated is this area generally
kind of is, you can get pretty remote within a
mile or two. And the same goes for this trailhead.
Like there's hundreds or maybe over a thousand people I
would guess who park there on an average day do
(07:31):
their day, hiken come back. But if you go far enough,
not very far, you know, a mile or so, you
could get pretty lost, especially if you go off trail.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
That's actually really terrifying to think about, because you know,
we during the summer we like to find new parks
and trails and stuff. And typically we'll take either our
scooters or our electric bikes and then we'll walk part
of it and then you know, ride part of it.
But you know, every time we're out there and we're
paired up, we tend to go off the trail a
little bit just to like explore. But I can I
(08:00):
can't imagine doing it alone and then just you know,
getting turned around so quickly. It's so easy to do.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yeah, we live in this is totally different out here,
but here in Central Wyoming we get a lot of it.
You know, That's why people live here and people travel
here to recreate doors and it never fails. Every year
two three four people go missing and usually they're found alive.
But a good rule of thumbis don't go alone like
you said, and you can get a beacon if you're
(08:28):
doing any kind of serious hiking where if something goes wrong,
they can find you immediately.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Good point.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Some people say bear spray out here. Some people carry firearms,
but all you really need, especially if your solo, is
just a beacon. This is not as rugged in this
part of the country down there and the Appalachian Trail,
but it's pretty it can get remote, and it's it's wilderness.
(08:55):
You're outdoors, out of your element where human beings aren't
modern human theyren't.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Supposed to be, right, right, that's where the animals live,
like that's right, Yeah, that's their home. They're used to it.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
We're not popping into the zoo enclosure.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Basically, And you know what, sometimes it kind of feels
that way, like not to be funny about it or anything,
but you know, you're as a human, you're completely out
of your element. You're used to having everything at your fingertips.
Right when you're in the wilderness, it's to escape all
of that and when you do, sometimes you escape it
too much.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
And we're not used to it, like right, we're not
in modern society, especially like out here in elementary school,
if that was interesting, they teach in like second and
third grade, they teach survival skills.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
They do not do that here in class.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So it's a little more of a way of life.
But it doesn't mean that's the other thing is never
take for granted that you're you're a bad decision away
from being in real trouble. Right, That's when stuff tends
to happen is when you I've done this for years,
and when you're not worried about it, when you're too confident,
that's when bad stuff can happen.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Did not mean a side tangent. But but yeah, all
of that I agree with.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
I get interest, Like he's just a remote area. This
parking area is not remote, but you hike on the trail,
you go off trail for a quarter half a mile
and you're all by yourself.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah, And I mean sometimes when you show up to
a parking lot like that, there are may be multiple
cars that were there before you got there, and then
they're still there when you're leaving. So you just never
know how long somebody intends to be out there, and
it could be just part of their routine. So when
he was last seen, he was believed to be wearing
a gray hooded sweatshirt, dark colored track pants with a
white stripe down the side of each leg, dark colored sneakers,
(10:35):
and possibly a waterproof watch. He was perhaps carrying camouflage
print real tree rain gear, as well as black or
dark blue book bag type day pack, so not like
a large book bag, but one that you would carry
with a few essentials, which kind of gives you the
inclination that he was planning to go on a hike
(10:55):
or something like that to where he would need a
few things with him, but wasn't planning on knock coming back.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Yeah, I think so too. And they figure out what
he had with him when he parked there. Yeah, and
they later figure out what was missing from the car,
what was still in the car, which is kind of
confusing that we'll get to. But yes, he's not carrying
like a backpack that would contain a tent, a sleeping
bag and a stove or whatever. He's like a book
bag day right.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
He is described as five eleven and weighing two hundred
and twenty pounds, with green eyes, brown hair, and a
short beard. He may have worn prescription eyeglasses with metal
rims at the time, and he has stretch marks on
his lower back and a tattoo of Japanese characters meaning
live or life on his upper chest. If he was
found today, the day that we're recording this, he would
(11:42):
be thirty seven years old, So he's still young enough
to be like alive and well if he just took
off for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
But it's only ten twelve years ago something like that.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Right, and he's like still relatively young, Like there's a
definite chance, but it's more slow obviously with the technology
that we have today, but there's some hope. He was
reported missing two weeks after he was last seen, and
we'll kind of touch on that a little bit later too,
because the dates kind of confused me a little. I
don't know if they confused you as well, but I
want to talk about that a little later.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I think it's confusing because they're not sure firm timeline,
like when he parked there. Yeah, and there's a sighting
that you talk about that's like weeks before he's reported missing.
That's confusing.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yeah, yeah, and his job. So that's the thing that
really gets me too. But let's just take it back
a little bit and learn a little bit more about
who Derek was or is. I couldn't find a whole lot.
I did find that he was born in northern Virginia
and graduated from Johnson University, which is formerly known as
Johnson Bible College in Knoxville. He worked as an orderly
(12:49):
for Peninsula Behavioral Health Center, and I believe that was
in Knoxville. I didn't quite confirm that. I didn't have
much more than that. I didn't have anything about his childhood.
I don't know what you found though.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Not much. But he shows up like on some honor
rolls in middle school and high school, and he was
given a four H award, which was the Virginia four
H All Star Award in two thousand and three. So
he was very active in extracurriculars as well. Not sure
about sports, but at least you know four H. I'm
(13:22):
a big four H fan. I think that's good for
a lot of kids. Teaches a lot of valuable lessons
and personal responsibility and accountability and all kinds of life skills.
So overachieving student I think, and then graduates from college.
So don't know anything about his childhood other than that.
I'm not sure his family is really said a whole lot,
but seems to me average kid, good grades, you.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Know, okay, just a typical I think, so average.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
Yeah, seems like it.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah, I didn't see anything either. That kind of struck
me as Okay, that's something you should be concerned about
when he grows up, Like, I didn't see anything out
there like that.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
You don't if anything like that does exist, As we know,
some of that can be kind of sugarcoated and whitewashed
after they go missing too. Yeah, so it's hard to tell.
And it's always hard to tell if you don't know
a person, doesn't matter how much reporting has done on them. Yeah,
it's any one of us, you know. Put you in
a newspaper article and tried to describe you in two
(14:21):
hundred words, it's not going to be adequate.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
It won't be nice. They're going to call me the
be word in your case.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
She was She was determined, I think is the code
word for what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
She dimmed a room when she walked into it.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
The light bulbs actually exploded overhead.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, that totally tracks, though. You really just need that
information from closest family, I think to really get an idea.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
I think family members' perceptions change when a person goes
missing because you're thinking about all your regrets and you're
missing the you're missing some of their negative quote unquote
personality traits too, But I don't I think universally people
are just seen different when something tragic happens to them,
or in this case, if they go missing it are
(15:12):
never found and there's that limbo.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Well, yeah, the perception, but there are facts still surrounding
each person. So I think that the family would really
be helpful and sharing those type of facts like how
you said he was on the Hona roll, he was
in these extracurriculars like those are facts that can be
looked up. I think that that would give more insight
to the type of person he was too, if they
had more information like that. Yeah, I mean, so that's
(15:35):
all we really had about him growing up other than
his nickname was Drock Drock and he often went by
DJ not enough, but you know, that's definitely something that
was more personal to him. So at least we have
that when talking about his disappearance. It's where I did
get a little bit confused with the timeline, because in
the beginning we did say that he was last seen
(15:57):
leaving on March third, twenty twelve, But after further digging,
I found that on March fifteenth, twenty twelve, he didn't
show up for work and calls to a cell phone
went unanswered. A mutual friend informed Derek's roommate, Ryan Moulden,
that Derek didn't show up for work on that morning,
and that's when Ryan called Derek's family to let them
know that he couldn't be reached and never showed up
(16:19):
for work. I guess my thought on that was his
family must have known that something was a miss because
they drove straight through the night from Virginia to Tennessee.
But it kind of made me wonder why they felt
the need to drive up right away if that was
the first day that he hadn't been heard from or
hadn't shown up to work, Because did he already take
off of work and not tell anyone? Was his roommate
(16:40):
not concerned from the third through the fifteenth of where
he was, Yeah, That's where I'm confused.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I would lean more toward the fifteenth than the third.
I'm not sure what the third was.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
But then other articles said that he was reported missing
two weeks later, like two weeks after he had actually
gone missing, is when he was reported. So that's where
I was like.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Where okay?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, yeah, so that's where I'm just like, if if
they drove up straight away that night when they found
out he didn't show up for work, was it because
they already had a feeling in their guts they already
knew something about him that nobody else did, and they
were concerned that something had happened. Yeah, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, it would be nice to know. I guess it's
good that they found his car really quickly because it
was in a very popular, busy area of the park.
What we don't we know that. What we don't know
is it seems a little foggy on the two weeks
before he went missing, Like where is he? Is he
shown it for work? Is he seen by people? Is
he staying at home? Is he staying somewhere else? That
(17:42):
I don't know?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, And that's just what made me scratch my head
over and over and over again with it. I just
don't like when things don't align because I just feel
like there's so many answers, even if a day is different,
Like I don't know, they did go to the hotel,
the family did, and they found a bible and on
the floor was a liquor bottle. And I believe that
same night they found or that same day they found
(18:06):
his car, correct in that parking area of Newfound Gap.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I think it was the fifteenth. The surveillance video shows
him leaving one of the hotels. At least he stayed
at the seventeenth, right, so he's obviously not parked and
in the park on the fifteenth. If he's leaving the
hotel on the seventeenth, I think so, Yeah, they may have.
They may have found his car a couple of days later.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, I think the thing that was the same day
was where they found his car the same day that
they viewed the surveillance footage or something. Sure you did
look up some weather conditions for that time, because here
in Ohio, March is still pretty cold, So I mean
even in Tennessee, I would think it would be a
little bit colder. Doesn't seem like it not.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
That week, So March eighteenth, I just went from the
seventeenth which is when the surveillance camera season leaving, So
March eighteenth is an overnight low of sixty and a
high temperature is seventy nine, and then temps of the
next two days are mid to upper fifties at night
and then low eighties during the day. And this whole
time at least at the nearest weather reporting station, which
(19:15):
doesn't mean it didn't rain there where he was, but
not a whole lot of rain, like I think maybe
a third of an inch over those three days, and
the winds are five ten miles an hour here and there. Survivable,
right a twenty three year old young man not safe necessary.
(19:36):
You can get hypothermic in those conditions. All it takes
is warmth being taken away from your body, and obviously
your core temperature is warmer than the outside in these conditions,
So he could theoretically still get hypothermic in like fifty
sixty seventy degree even temperature, but it would take a lot.
(19:58):
It's a lot more serve for him than it could
have been.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So when they went out and found his car, it
was a white Ford escape in the parking lot of
an area called Newfound Gap. They did find some items
in his car, And you know, I kind of listed
the items that were found, but you found a bit
more information, so I'm going to let you share that.
But it was basically a kit that he had, like
a survival kit that he had purchased all these items
(20:24):
to kind of put together himself, right, So.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
He bought like a after the fifteenth. He bought one
thousand plus dollars worth of stuff. Some of it was
taken from the car when they found the car, some
of it was not. Some of it was still in
the car. Once they got to the vehicle. They found
inside a compass, a lamp, a pocket knife, knife, sharpen
or a tent, sleeping bag, one hundred feet of black
(20:48):
parachute cord, a survival belt containing several tools, a flashlight,
and a fire starter. All that was still in the car,
in addition to his sleeping bag in his tent. But
he had taken some things with him, and the stuff
he took with him is more we'll get to, but
it's more like a day hike kind of a thing.
So I don't know what that's about. And that's kind
(21:09):
of a mystery in the case because the only evidence
is what was in the car and what was missing
from the car, So his intentions get kind of strange
at that point.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
He purchased all of the stuff for a reason, but
then leaving it all behind. Was that intentional? Was he
planning to come back to his car grab all of it?
Something bad happened. Was he taken against his will? Because
my thought was, Okay, he purchased all this stuff, he
had a whole plan, and then maybe he kind of
went out there with a day pack with just a
(21:39):
few items to kind of scout the area, if you will,
and see if that's the route that he wants to take,
and maybe he got turned around, maybe he got lost
out there. He wasn't intending to not come back to
his truck.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
So my first thought when I saw kind of that
list was this is like if you've never been hiking
in your life and you read a list of all
the stuff you need. He went out and pought all
of it. Not hiking, but say backpacking. Say you're going
to be there three four days in the woods. You
could drop someone in the woods with half of that
(22:11):
stuff and you'd survive. You could. You would want all
the stuff, but you don't need all of the stuff
that he brought with him. So his list is like,
I'm not going for a day hike. I'm going to
like hike the Appalation Trail. Except missing is a backpack,
like a legit hiking backpacking backpack. I didn't see that anywhere.
(22:35):
And that's where you carry your tents, your sleeping bag,
your stove, all this stuff. You can't fit all that
in a regular sized book bag backpack. The people that
do hike the Appalation Trail, they'll have those huge packs.
He didn't seem to have one of those. So I'm
not sure what his intention was. But my first reaction
(22:55):
was he went, like on a scouting or something, I
mean to check it out first come back.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
That's kind of what my thought was.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
But I'm not convinced to that, and I don't I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
That.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
It just seems like that's most likely. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I like, I like to take the trails and stuff,
but I've never like gone actual like hiking where you
take all this stuff with you. So if I sound ignorant,
I'm sorry, But like, what is the parachute cord for?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
You could use that for anything that you could use
a rope for. Basically it's just like a rope. It's
a sturdy rope.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Okay, that's what I thought. Maybe, but I was like,
I'm I've never done this, so maybe it's something more special. Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
No, there's nothing I don't think unique to the parachute cord.
It's just if you're going to pick a cord like that,
parachute cords need to not break because they're attached to
people falling through the air. So yeah, yeah, I would
guess they're kind of sturdy. It's it's good to have. Yeah,
you can use it for all. You could use it
for one hundred different things. But again, that's not something
you necessary really need you'd want to have it.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But so what if we told you that something else
was found in his car, like a little note. This
note said don't look for me m What are your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
On that they also found there his wallet and his keys,
his car key.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
So I'm friendly with SSAAR people out here, and they'll
tell you if you find a note, it's going to
be bad. If you find a note in the car,
you're not going to like what you find when you
find the person.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
That's my fear, because you know when you when you
think about that note, would it originally like it had
you not thought about the Essaar people, would it change
your mind about what could have happened that day? Like
could it mean that he wanted to disappear without anyone
finding him? Was he experiencing suicidal ideations? It kind of
brings me back to the question of mental health concerns
(24:53):
because we don't know anything about that, Like was he
suffering from mental illness? Was it undiagnosed? Was he really
offering in that moment and nobody really knew and he
just felt like he needed to do this and you know,
unfortunately take his own life. I don't know, So I.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Think we can jump to that conclusion or at least
as a theory, because it's the only thing that we
can think of. Like, his actions are irrational, it doesn't
appear to make sense, so maybe there was something going
on there. On the other hand, no one's ever said
that he did have any kind of mental health either.
He was considered high risk by the Forest Service in
(25:29):
the first days or maybe a week after they said
something like. The investigation revealed that this twenty three year
old operator was believed to be despondent is the word
that they used. But are they getting that because Mom
said so? Are they getting that because the note in
the car made them think he doesn't want to be found?
(25:49):
And again, the people that volunteers in the pros that
do this, when you find a note in the car
doesn't matter almost what the note says, it's not going
to be good when you find the person. But they
always find They almost always find the person, and he
hasn't been found.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
That was kind of my hang up with it too,
because usually usually, I say, but it's.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Ninety five percent they find them. Are you alive when
they find you? It's maybe different, but usually you're alive.
Almost never has anything to do with animals, but they
they'll find you eventually. But it's again, ninety five percent
in this case falls in that five percent.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, And I mean, you know, we're looking at his
age too. He was twenty three twenty four at the time,
so you know, there's also that possibility that he was
experiencing symptoms of depression or maybe even schizophrenia, bipolar disorder,
generalized anxiety like all kinds of things, and depression is
we as we know, often underdiagnosed in young men and
(26:49):
often leads to men more so than women to commit suicide,
you know, and sometimes they'll try to treat themselves with
substances such as drugs and alcohol. I'm not saying that's
what happened here, just saying it is a possibility, especially
after you hear that his dad came forward that same
year and said that he had noticed a change in
his son, saying, quote, he started drinking a little bit
(27:11):
and smoking cigarettes, which was highly unusual for him. He
wasn't happy with his job, where his life was going
end quote, so he just kind of, you know, he
told the media. He assumed Derek was dealing with postgraduation
stress and transition to adulthood. Many parents would assume that
and kind of write it off as like, oh, these
are just kind of like growing pains. But maybe he
(27:34):
didn't know the full extent. If Derek was suffering, I'm
sure he was trying to hide it, you know.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Bex's. On the one hand, when the family notes a
behavior change, you want to listen to that. On the
other hand, if the behavior change is drinking and smoking cigarettes,
just because you drinking smoke cigarettes doesn't mean you're depressed, right.
It was unusual for him so the family has noticed something,
but he's it's it's not definitive that he's struggling with
(28:03):
anything that's really serious, but he could have been.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And you know, his family and friends did dispute that
he had any severe depression or suicidal tendencies which would
have caused him to kill himself. But you know, there
are thoughts and opinions that the note left in his
car could have even been by someone trying to throw
off authorities. I don't know if I buy into that one,
but you know, stranger things have happened. I don't know
(28:27):
what your thoughts are on that, but it just seems
kind of ballsy.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I think you have to look into it. You can't
just say, well, Derek left the note here.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
No. Obviously, obviously, but it just doesn't feel like, with
the information that we have, that that was looked into
as a possibility.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I saw it stated like if he did write the
note from people who were searching for him, not just
from Reddit. But gotcha, there's no reason to believe he didn't.
I think it was just that the handwriting couldn't be
match necessary. Gotcha, there was what quind to prove that
he wrote it. No reason to think he didn't, though.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
So they did search intensively. They searched in the area
where his car was found. Rangers interviewed campers and hikers
in the vicinity asking whether they had seen him. Reportedly,
though no one could remember seeing him. Despite it being
very sunny that day, the area had plenty of people picnicking, hiking,
you know, all the things, and because of this, authorities
(29:27):
believed that he might have gone off trail immediately after
leaving his car and quickly got lost or intentionally avoided
people in the area to avoid detection. Although there were
reports of possible sighting among Newfound Gap Road, potentially where
he entered the woods, nothing ever came of it.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
I think that's a fair assumption because if he did,
one theory would be he was really into bear grylls
and the survivalist thing, kind of like the show it's
a history show now, like Alive or something like that. Yeah,
where they dropping in Alaska until to say, uncle, I
get you. So he was really into that stuff, and
(30:05):
if that's what he was trying to prove to himself
is so to speak, he wouldn't have just hiked along
the trail with the six year olds and the moms
and dads. He would want to go experience the woods,
but he also wasn't equipped to do that, at least
not for an extended period of time. So here's what
he had with him. He bought all this stuff, but
most of it's in the car. He brought a day pack,
(30:27):
some items maybe from the Bear Grill survival pack and acts,
several pages from a military survival manual, and a headlamp,
and some granola bars, which is fine for a day hike.
That's fine for a full day hike, but what happens
when you have to sleep somewhere and seek shelter and
then get food for the next day and so on.
(30:47):
So he was fine for a day hike, but all
his survival stuff really that you really need is back
of the car.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
When the search happened, there were about sixty people on
three dog team that were assigned to continue searching for him.
They had been organized into fourteen search teams that had
walked more than seventy miles of trails surrounding that parking area,
which is amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, that's a pretty good search. And usually you're on
the trail, it's usually with the for anyone that's curious.
The first thing they do is they send up a
hasty team, which is like go up there on ATVs
and just see if he can find the person right away,
and then the people behind them kind of do the
grid search like you see on TV. That's usually how
they find you. That's like ninety percent because you twist
(31:34):
an ankle is what usually happens or something like that.
You're not intentionally going off the trail. If you do,
it's going to take a little bit longer to find somebody.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
About the dogs, because we've talked about search dogs before
the weather in this area, were there any concerns about
how they would be able to track him at all?
Speaker 1 (31:54):
So it's noted somewhere that they were worried that the
heavy rains might hinder the search dogs a bill. But
those three days of the weather forecast, there's almost no rain. Yeah,
So was it before or was it in the week after?
Maybe it was. It was an intensive search for seven days.
At least, it was such an intensive search. They found
something else that they weren't looking for that we'll get
(32:16):
to a minute. But it was pretty well searched, and
it doesn't strike me either as unusual that nobody remembers
seeing alone average looking twenty three year old guy. Yeah,
I think you have a better chance of remembering them
if there are fewer people there, because you would note,
you would note more of the interactions that you have
with people, as opposed to there like three hundred people
(32:36):
at this parking area, so you're not going to remember,
you know, a random, average looking kid with a backpack.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
I thought about that earlier too, and you know, we
were kind of going over that section because I'm like,
I don't think I would even remember that. But so,
these trail search teams explored basically any area along the
trail where it would appear relatively easy to get off
the trail into the woods, and once off trail, the
teams would look for tracks or clues that anybody had
(33:04):
passed through that way, which smart you know. They continued
into the woods until they reached a point where it
was either unsafe to continue, or until they reached some
sort of barrier such as I don't even know how
to say the word. I know it's a plant. It's
like rhodendron thickets, Like I think that's how you say it.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
I think that's right.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
I think rhododendron something like that. But it's like really
really thick area. So that's, you know, where they thought
Derek could not have gone without leaving some type of
evidence of him going through that area. So that's you know,
they I feel like they searched as extensively as they
possibly could in.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
That situation, and so for that week, and they had
some aerial support, they have the dogs, they had a
lot of searchers there. When you're looking off trail, it
becomes a lot harder. But so you can't say he's
not there, can't. You can't say that. But if he
was just day hiking like you think an average person would,
(34:03):
they should have found him with that search. So that
leads me to think either he's no longer anywhere in
the area at all, or he did go off trail
and something happened and that's what happened to him.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Let's fast forward just a little bit. Things get a
little bit more strange with this case because several months
after Derek's disappearance, a backpack and then subsequently human remains
were discovered in the Great Smoking Mountains National Park. Both
were found close to the area where he disappeared, but
the body wasn't Derek's. The remains were found to be
(34:35):
Michael Giovanni Cocockney something like that. I'm sorry, I butchered that.
He was twenty three Kaccini. There we go see words names.
Michael was last seen on Sunday, March eighteenth, twenty twelve,
and while searching for Derek, rangers located Michael's abandoned car
(35:00):
parked at a walkway along Newfound Gap Road, which was
about a mile south of the park's sugar Lands visitor Center.
And that was on March twentieth, So within two days, yeah,
within two days of finding of him going missing, his
car was found, but his body wasn't. That's where I
got confused on it.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
I think they found his body during that week during
the search, so they found a car first. And as
you said, this isn't like he's not in the woods.
And I never found to cause of death for Michael.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Kacchini me neither.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
It may have been a suicide because he's a young
guy as well, and he's not in the wilderness area.
He's like in the tourist area. So I don't know
what happened to him, but it's highly highly coincidental. I
think that's what it is. But it's really random and
rare to have like two men, same age basically missing
(35:54):
in the same within a mile of each other. That's
highly suspicious. But there's no lane that we know of.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, I wasn't able to find any links either, And
I just thought it was interesting how they said that
where his car was found. It was just so weird
place to leave your car because they mentioned how the
walkway Sure Easy trail extends to the woods very short distance.
People typically didn't leave their vehicles there overnight, So I
(36:21):
just found that, you know, kind of red flaggy.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
It kind of seems like he parked there wanting to
harm himself. That's kind of what it seems like. Who knows,
but yeah, they'll the rangers will do, you know, a
couple of times a day, hit all the parking areas
and they kind of know this is a day hike one,
so if there's a car there overnight, that could be
a big deal. Whereas different trailheads, they'll keep an eye
(36:45):
out for a week or two weeks. And the smart
thing to do too, if you're going to be gone
for a week is to go into the ranger station,
say I'm driving a Ford Escort. It's parked right there.
I'm planning to be gone for a week, and just
so you guys know, and they'll note that and write
that down. Keep an eye out for it.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
See, you know all the park rules. I just show up,
I go on the trail. I'm like, oh shit, it's dark.
I'm leaving.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Like there was a time I wouldn't do it anymore,
but yeah, I've done. I've done seven day backpacks.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Okay, that's terrifying. I probably would never do that with
my paranoid brain.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
It's yeah, I mean, well that's why you do it though,
Like the change in perspective, the unplugging and getting back
to your roots as a human being. Of you know,
we're supposed to be more connected with nature than we
are today.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
That's fair, that's great, that's beautiful. But I'm not getting
killed out there.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
It's I mean, everything's dangerous. But yeah, it's you have
to again with You have to approach it with some knowledge,
some experience as you gain it, and humility above all
those and fun.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Take somebody with you, yeah, and a partner.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But there's nothing else quite like it. It's it's a
really cool experience. As you get older, more bad things
can happen to you. So I'm not sure I do
something like that again. But yeah, familiar with all the stuff.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
You might throw out a hip next time you go.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
Careful not that old.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Come on, okay, all right, theories, What do we have
for this guy?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
All right, check this out. You're gonna like this. The
UK Daily Star has this article of legends of wild
feral people living in this National park.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Hills have Eyes.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Dozens of alleged sightings of cannibals living deep in the
Appalachian backwoods, where the descendants of men who deserted from
the American Civil War. I love this, Oh my god,
said to live independently, completely removed from civilization. There's a podcaster,
Donnie Laws, who said the first reports of any wild
man in the US was about eighteen seventy seven Western
(38:45):
North Carolina gold miners ran into this wild feral man.
They followed him back to like a cave and there's
all kinds of bones. Oh my god, Yeah, isn't this
it's And if you scroll down, there's an artist's likeness
of who we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
These Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
Handsome devil.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
There no no, not at all.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
But are you familiar with this at all?
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I'm familiar with the hills have eyes, and that sounds exactly.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Like what about the Jackson Whites.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I've heard of that. I did not know what that was.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Yeah, it's kind of the same thing. But the idea
is I love the descendants of the Civil War thing.
But the idea is they live by themselves. They're like
primitive eight people pretty much. Yeah, and they're all inbred.
So the eyes get closer together, is what they say.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
So that's the only thing.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
That's the only I'm sure there are other side effects
too that aren't good, but that these and there are
stories I'm not sure if any of them are true,
but stories of like you hike with your girlfriend overlooking
a waterfall, you look down and you see this naked
guy who's got blood all over his face. No, stuff
like that. I doubt it's but I just love the
(39:57):
idea that their wilderness, wild people living in now.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
I believe it though, Like, honestly, this is something that
I can get behind that I think it's absolutely.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
True and say it's not true.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
I think, how are all these people missing? They're probably
being eaten by these people.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
It's kind of hard to imagine in the modern age
that we live in, but not really when you get
it gets kind of strange down there.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
In that part of the country.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I don't know, maybe.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I believe it. We're gonna have to dig into this.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
That's a there's a fun rabbit hole of I think
it's West Virginia. There's a documentary called The Soft White
Underbelly about an inbred family.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
I know that family, well, not personally, but like we sorry, no,
we walk from that. No that we watched that channel
on YouTube. We watched that channel. This guy, this YouTuber
became very close to this family, like and they are
in bread and he like will bring them items and
come and see them and have dinners with them. Yeah,
it's a whole thing. We were watching that channel for
(40:56):
like a year.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
What it is, But there's something fascinating about so fascinating. No,
I don't think that's what happened to Derek, but well
I don't either. But that's a theory that came from
the highly esteemed journalistic bastion in the UK Star. But
it was a fun theory. Aside from that, I mean,
what do you think, what do you think is most
likely most likely.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
I mean, without really knowing anything, I kind of feel
like he may have been suffering from depression or something
and just could have gone out there to end his
life unfortunately. Or the only other thing I can think
is he went out there, got turned around, didn't plan
on not coming back. But that doesn't explain the note, right,
That's where that's what throws me off, because I could
(41:40):
totally see if the note didn't exist. I could totally
see that being purely accidental and something happening, like he
hurt himself and then no help came, and now he's
just you know, part of the earth.
Speaker 1 (41:53):
That's probably most likely, I think. But the notes, the note,
I keeping in mind he's twenty three, Yeah, like I
would see it differently if he were older. I get
the poll, I get the draw of let me go
prove myself, let me reset my perspective, because this is
the same thing every day, basically adulting. I just don't
(42:16):
like it. So I'm going to go, you know, pursue
my interest in survivability or whatever it is. I get that.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
And so you think that he could have written the
note like don't look for me. I'm going to prove
to myself. I can do this kind of thing.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Just leave me alone. Because they were calling his cell
phone this whole time, like from the fifteenth through the eighteenth,
he's ignoring calls.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah, that I just so he's.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
Like, don't find me, leave me alone.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
So that was his phone found, It wasn't was it?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
No, the wallet McKee, We're found. But that doesn't disclude
mental illness either, because he's behaving in a way that
is abnormal and irrational. Is that because he's an adventurous
twenty three year old who's looking to prove himself as
he becomes a or is that because he's suffering from
some kind of mental ailment that doesn't allow him to
(43:09):
survive the way your brain's supposed to behave if you're
in that situation. Probably most likely he died out there.
It's just really strange that he didn't even really give
it a go. You know, he didn't bring his stuff,
And maybe it could be as simple as he figured out,
I don't have a backpack for all this stuff, so
I don't know. It's obviously it's a mistery. It is.
(43:33):
I mean, because he's young and he's going to live.
The sad part for me aside from his family, especially
since they never found him or can say what happened.
He would not have died quickly, very likely it would
have taken a while, and not in a fun way
(43:53):
because he's very young. Whether it's fine, as interested as
he is in survival, I've seen those shows and I
can tell you it's different. It's not the same thing.
And if you go into the woods looking for trouble,
it's kind of a vibe I get from him if
you're looking for that, so you can overcome this obstacle
(44:15):
that's not gonna that's not gonna go well, there's enough
that can go wrong anyway, you don't have to go
looking for it. But I don't think it's a setup.
I don't think the scene was staged and someone else
killed him. I don't think he was eaten by cannibals
from the Civil War. I think he probably found what
(44:35):
he was looking for. And I'm not sure about mental
illness or not.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
But I hate not have any answers.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
It's weird he hasn't been found, like there are cases
like that, but there was one in Colorado, just like
weeks ago, of some hiker up on Holy Cross. I
think in Colorado that went missing like in the seventies,
and they gave this one area another search and they
(45:03):
founder her bones obviously, But yeah, you can have a
full scale search and not find somebody. Search and rescue
people say well, we'll find you, and they generally do.
But there's a lots of there's lots of woods if
you're off trail like that, so he very well. I
think Okham's razor is he went to the woods unprepared,
(45:24):
maybe looking for a fight, and who knows what happened.
The other possibility that his family must have hung on
to is that this is all staged and he just
hit a reset button on his life and he's still
alive somewhere.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
That would be amazing.
Speaker 1 (45:40):
I think possible too, because every time I say it's
not someone pops us.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
We'll say it's not then and maybe he'll come back.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
Yeah, well he then he would be like a thirty
sweat thirty seven year old dad in Ohio or something.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Oh my god, what if he's my neighbor live.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
In this random, average life. That's possible. It's I have
a hard time with that theory because what about the family.
You're leaving your family and friends in limbo for a
decade plus.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yes, you say that, but there are so many families
out there that are so dysfunctional and you're better off
without being a part of their lives, and maybe this
was better off for him. It's sad for his family,
but we don't know what was going on, and you know,
if that's a possibility that he would have been better
off without him, we have no idea. So the people
(46:28):
who do leave their families for whatever reasons they have,
maybe it was better for them.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
It seems possible a scenario where he does go out
for a couple of days and tries it out and
realizes this isn't going well and not as much fun
as I thought, and then just you know, walks back,
hitches a ride and who knows where he is. Now.
That's hard to do, though, I mean, logistically that's hard
to do, but you could.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
You keep saying that it.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
Foreign to me, it's so weird, but it does happen.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
I mean, just have to be smart about it.
Speaker 1 (47:03):
Yeah, Yce, smart about what was your gesius name?
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Exactly? I'm just going to root for him. I mean,
they never found his body, so hopefully he is still
alive and well out there.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
I'm sure that's what the family's thinking in some way.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, gotta hold on to the hope.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
So there is Derek Luking and we'll see if we
do another one of these or something similar. There are
a lot of outside the Appalachian Trail, there are a
lot of these cases, so it's kind of fun. I
like that kind of a story, as frustrating as they
always are.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Yeah, but again it gets it out there. Yep, more
people can hear about it.
Speaker 1 (47:41):
All right, Patreon time, Heather and I right now will
record our first season five Unsolved Mysteries recap. So if
you haven't watched that, go watch that and then become
a Patreon supporter and you can join us for that.
Aside from that, enjoy your all day and we'll talk
at you soon.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Bye mm hmm
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.