April 9, 2025 • 43 mins
In April 1987, 4-year-old Marlena Danyele Childress vanished from her front yard in Union City, Tennessee. What began as a frantic search turned into one of the most baffling and disturbing missing child cases in state history.
Anyone with information about this case should contact the Obion County Sheriff's Office at (731) 885-5832.
Anyone with information about this case should contact the Obion County Sheriff's Office at (731) 885-5832.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Welcome back to Statisfading. This is Scott Fuller. Heather Right
is here as well. We are glad you are all
listening to us, and we just may as well script this.
At the beginning of every episode we apologize for our absence,
but we are back here today. I think it's been
like three months January.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Something probably, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Sorry, it's life. Heather has drug herself here from the
clutches of death to join us, so we are blessed
by your presence. Heather. Thank you for for doing the
only record time I've agreed to in like weeks. But
it's been crazy all around.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah. Yeah, you can share your little stories if you
want after we record.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh yeah, there are so many. It's been a lifetime
of a couple of weeks here. But we are back
with a case here today, So thanks for hanging out
at this point. Do this because we want to and
when we can. This is going to be kind of
an older format in that I have no earthly idea
what's about to happen, just like you the listener, unless
(01:32):
she happened to be familiar with this case. So Heather
has done all the heavy lifting. She indicated there was
a lot of interesting research tidbits and seem like you
did get going on this one, so we'll let you
carry the episode. But I do want to after we
take a break, I will summarize the case that we're
(01:52):
talking today and we'll get to it right after this.
So first thing out I see of Heather's notes is, unfortunately,
today we are covering the death of a four year
old girl who was born on February seventeenth, nineteen eighty three,
passed away with four years old in a couple of
(02:14):
months in Union County or Union City, Tennessee. Again, she's four,
so she was four feet tall, weight listed at thirty
eight pounds, and as we'll learn, she was last seen
in her front yard. And when she was last seen,
she was wearing steel caps on her top and bottom, teeth,
eyes of blue hazel, and again just the denture work
(02:37):
is interesting at a four year old, but I have
seen that before on very young kids who need teeth help.
So she had those which are distinguishing features obviously for
a missing person. In the worst case last scene, wearing
light purple pants and a purple and white top, as
well as pink jelly shoes.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I loved those when I was a kid. Oh, I
talk about all the time every time I see Jason
about them.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So what are they?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
They just look like think about Crocs, but cooler, smaller,
and the jelly was like some of it had sparkles,
so you get to get the pink sparkle, the white sparkle,
all kinds of colors, and I don't know, they were
just really cool. I'll have to send you a picture
them a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, I was like six and I was obsessed.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Okay, well, so it is Marlena. By the way, I
haven't given her name. I don't think Marlena Danielle Childress.
That is about it. Her case is listed, as you
know in the typical missing person's databases. We will include
the agency of jurisdiction in the show notes. And with that,
(03:45):
we're going to turn things over to Heather to tell
us this story together. Again. Thank you to Heather for
heavy lifting and coming in to read this sick as
well that she did all the research on this one.
So we're going to Union City, ten See and again,
just for reference, this is back in the eighties. So
Marlena last scene at least in April of eighty seven, right.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yes, yeah, so, as Scott said, Marlena lived in Union City, Tennessee,
with her twenty two year old mother, Pamela Bailey, along
with her step father, Johnny, and her four month old
half brother Damon. Now also there was another kid involved.
It was her seven year old stepbrother, so Johnny's son
(04:32):
with somebody else, and his name was Jerry, who was
present until he was picked up by his mother at
around three in the afternoon on the day that Marlena
went missing. So, just thinking about it, a seven and
a four year old, they're pretty close in age. They're
playing a lot with each other, they're doing activity together.
So that was her little playmate until he left that day,
(04:54):
you know, leaving her to play by herself. So on
the day of her disappearance, it was a Thursday, April six, sixteenth,
at nineteen eighty seven, Marlena's mother, Pamela, had taken Marlena
and her brother Jerry to a nearby gas station to
pick up some candy. You know how kids are, They're like,
I want candy, I want candy, and they just don't
stop until they take that. They do they do. I
(05:14):
have nieces and nephews, and I know what.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
It's like all they ask for is granola bars and
fruit and asparagus.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Exactly, yeah, every time or corn. I'll have to tell
you that story later. Just best.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So sad though it's the most innocent thing in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We'nocent, yeah, exactly. Yeah, And you know this makes it
even more sad, as any kid would Marlena was really
excited after she got the candy, so she like ran
out of the gas station to go back to the car,
and you know, she's four, so mom kind of freaks
out like, oh my gosh, and runs right after her outside,
but found that Marlena was already like outside and in
(05:52):
the presence of another person, a grown man, and just
kind of staring at him, just like in the parking lot.
And Pamela said that she didn't recognize this man.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Weird, So we started seconds after.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Seconds after, like I'm cashing out, she takes her candy,
runs out the door, I throw my change on the
counter and run after her kind of thing. Correct, Yeah,
And you know, as any mom would be, she was concerned, like,
oh my gosh, who is this man? This is kind
of weird. Why is he talking to my four year old?
Even if it wasn't a four year old girl, four
(06:25):
year old boy. It doesn't matter, I don't know, just
bad vibes. So he was talking to Marlena until Pamela
noticed and confronted him, at which point he walked away.
So Pamela quickly followed her daughter, you know, calling to
her saying, hey, you know, come back, like let's get
in the car or whatever. The man leaned forward like
this is what Pamela like witnessed like, he leaned forward,
(06:48):
towering over her, talking to her. So she kind of
mom kind of froze and then confronted him, and he
took off. He got in his car and left mom.
Pamela said that he was getting in to a red
car with McCracken County, Kentucky plates. Now keep in mind
we're in Tennessee, so that's going to stand out to
you no matter what state you're in. If this, if
(07:10):
the tag looks different, you're gonna look at it and
be like, oh, that's not the state.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So is this like here in Wyoming, every county has
a prefix, which is how you can tell what county
it's from. How does she know an out of state
license plate county or at least I'm sure she found
out later what it was, but she just remembered something
about the plate that gave away the county.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
The great question. Yes, that's what one would assume until
you hear later as to why she knows this or
potentially why. But yeah, that's that's what my thought was, too, Like, Wow,
she's from a different state, but she knew that it
was McCracken County. Like I can look at a plate
and know it's a different state, but I'm not going
to know what county it is necessarily unless i'm Usually
I can't.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Like most there's a prefix or some license plates like
Iowa have the county written underneath in tiny letters, but
usually you can't tell.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, and Ohio, we have a little sticker that has
like the first three letters of the county that goes
on the left side of the plate.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
So maybe it's more common than I realized.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But okay, but if you're not familiar with the different
counties in that state, you're not going to know those
three letters are associated with that county necessarily, I wouldn't think.
But yeah, good question. I asked it too.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm just here, I'm here to help.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm here as eye candy today.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, I mean, none of us can see you, but.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
You're doing I'm better looking if you can't see me.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay, okay, So later that day, back to back to
Pamela and Marlin. Okay, yes, sorry. Later that day, Pamela
was washing dishes in the kitchen and Marlena was playing
in the yard with some toys. As I said before,
Jerry had already left. So Pamela's kitchen sink was right
in front of a large double hung kitchen window, and that,
(08:55):
you know, really allowed her to keep an eye on Marlena,
which duh, any parent would want to do while kind
of getting housework done. So this was at about three thirty,
so Jerry had just left the house about thirty minutes
before that. She's playing in the yard alone. Everything seems
just fine. And then it was about, like I said,
(09:15):
three point thirty. Pamela indicated that she looked down briefly
while scrubbing some dishes, and then she heard a loud
screech of car tires on the pavement. When she looked up,
she saw a red vehicle with Kentucky license plates speeding
down the street away from her house. So Pamela reported
that she first kind of shrugged it off, like oh
that was weird, Like what a weird noise whatever, but
(09:37):
then immediately realized that something wasn't right because she didn't
see Marlena in the yard anymore. So she ran outside
looking all around for he couldn't find her, so she
hurried back inside called the police. She advised the police
that she believed Marlena had been abducted by a man
in a red car with McCracken County, Kentucky plates. She
informed the police that this is the same car that
(09:57):
she witnessed speeding down her street and at the gas
station earlier that day, when the man was talking to Marlena. Okay,
you're not leaving it.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
She's no, I am. It's it's terrifying. It's parents' worst nightmare,
your kids playing outside and here squeeching your squealing tires.
Nothing is good, you know, no matter what has happened,
it's not good. But again, she's indicating to police the county,
yeah already, that she knows the plate is from.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, and you know, for police, you know, that's quite
a lead. They're like, holy crap, Okay, let's get on
this right. So Union City Police department officials located a
red car, this specific red car apparently at his Kentucky home,
and although he admitted that he spoke to Marlena at
the gas station, so somehow they found the right guy,
(10:46):
which I don't understand. He did say that he was
pretty shocked to see the police on his doorstep. He
said he felt like he had nothing to hide, though,
so he consented a search of his home and you know,
that way the police could verify that he in facted
not have Marlena. And police did that and apparently ruled
him out, as well as her biological and her stepfather.
(11:09):
And this was after extensive interviews with both of them.
But it's just like the luck, Like I don't know
how far Union City, Tennessee, and McCracken County, Kentucky are
from each other, but that seems pretty lucky to find
that guy so quick.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So I guess you could look up if she had
a make and model of a car or what it
could be. How many might be in the.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
County potentially, Yeah, I guess so eighties.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
And if you say red car, yeah, you're not going
to get very far, but you give enough of a
dip if you know what kind of car it is,
or if you give enough of a description that they
can figure out maybe what two or three kinds of
cars it might be. And if it's a small county
in a area of car or you know, it's a
known guy to local law enforcement and they said, yeah,
(11:57):
you're gonna want to go check out that red car
guy first or something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Who knows, right.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
But no, randomly they're not going to find it. They're
not driving around looking in driveways. I don't think.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, And I mean I guess she could have, you know,
reported it relatively quickly and they could have put a
bolo out for it, but like to track him down
to his house, it just seems like it had taken
a little while before they started looking, you know what
I mean, I don't know, lots of questions going through
my head. So after ruling out mister redcar Biodad and stepfather,
(12:29):
the investigation continued for another six weeks and the police
were coming up with absolutely nothing. But then somebody confessed,
Oh okay, uh huh. Pamela was talking to an investigator
named Stan Cavnis on June eighth, nineteen eighty seven, after
he was hired by a Pamela's family who were frustrated
(12:49):
because there was no progress in the case. Pamela and
San were in the middle of a tape recorded interview
when Pamela started describing the events of the day that
Marlena disappeared. Pamela then reported that Marlena's behaviors were becoming
increasingly unimagined or increasingly more unmanageable, I should say, getting worse,
causing Pamela to become more and more stressed out, not
(13:11):
really knowing how to handle her behaviors. And mind you,
she does have another child in the house, a baby,
so I can I can see where she could get
frustrated with behaviors, but not just frustrated.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So she told the investigator that she quote unquote snapped
and struck Marlena in the back of the head.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
What in the world?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Uh huh? Four year old Marlena?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
She reported that she hit her so hard that when
Marlena wobbled, she then fell, hitting her head on the
corner of a nearby table on the way down. She
stated that she then attempted to render first aid, but
realized that her temple hitting the corner of the table
is what killed her, so there was something she could get.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
She's confessing. She's confessing not to the police, but to
the investigators she hired.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Correct, Yeah, I told you, it's weird man. She then
reported that once she realized her daughter was in fact dead,
she hid her body in the trunk of her car,
then drove to Martin, which is a nearby town, contacted
a family friend named pl Summers, and arranged to meet
him at a bridge on Campground Road. There, they carried
(14:20):
the dead girl's corpse from the trunk of Pam's car,
according to her, and then tossed it into the Obien River. Now,
I meant to look up more about the Obian River
because there's like a whole lot of stuff about it,
like certain times of the year when it rains and
things like that. So I just summarized a little bit
of what the police said about it during the investigation.
(14:42):
So I'll get to that in a second. But her
investigator friend then asked her to confirm that everything she
was saying was actually true, and when she did, he
said that he has to tell the police, and she said,
I understand, Like, Pamela, what the fuck. He then contacted
the Union City police and for them of her confession,
and she was subsequently arrested on charges of second degree
(15:04):
murder and a team of highly trained police divers were
sent to basically search the Obian for any trace of
Marlena's remains. Is that where she actually.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Was at this point? I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I'm telling you, I fell down some rabbit holes, man.
So according to Pamela, she and her friend had tossed
her daughter's body into the water during the very early
morning hours of April seventeenth, so the day after she
had disappeared, and this was a time when most of
the spring rains had come and gone according to the
(15:38):
local weather people there. And this meant that by early
June a team of divers would most likely not have
been able to recover any human remains that were tossed
into it just two months prior, because like, there's no
way to locate them at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So they can't disprove this confession just because the body's
not in the river or in correct.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, But strangely, bite an intense search that spanned multiple days,
not a single trace of her body could be found.
But here's here's some backpaling for you. Homicide detectives weren't
buying her story, thank god, and decided to pay her
a visit in jail to clear up some inconsistencies because
what I gave you was a summary of what she
(16:19):
had told them, but some of the facts that she
had given and the timestamps just didn't add up for them.
So they were like, Okay, we need to clear this up.
We need to figure out what else is going on.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
To their credit, because cops will love a confession, you know,
especially where a little bit of time has gone by,
but they have to go coroborate it. They can't coroberate it,
and so they start asking our aunt, why is this
lady saying she did this? Is she covering for somebody else?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Or who knows exactly? I knew you were a cop.
I knew it. So they merely go there and, you know,
just ask her to confirm the location of the dumping site.
They're like, hey, we've been looking. We really want to
locate your daughter's body, Like we need to give some
closure to you and the rest of your family. Help
us out where exactly did you throw her body over?
(17:05):
And with that she was like, ah, JK. She recanted
her entire confession.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
M come on, mom, Wow, all right, so why is
she recanting her confession?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
She said that just days prior to the taped conversation
with that PI, she'd been released from a psychiatric hospital.
She said the stress of losing her daughter had been
too much to bear, so after a brief stay under
the care of medical professionals, she was released, having been
prescribed a cocktail of antidepressants. She then claimed that not
(17:39):
only had she been high during the taped confession with
the PI, but he'd heavily intimidated her prior to recording
the conversation, having used the threat of the electric chair
to coerce a confession, which, hold the fuck up, you
guys hired him? Why would he do that?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
How many clients does this guy have? If the first
thing he does is you did it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
You did it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
We're gonna make sure you get fed for it.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
We're gonna put you in the chair.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
And then she's like, oh, okay, I'll just confess them.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So we don't know what's going on with this lady,
not yet, no, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But then she implicates somebody else. Police asked her about
good old pl Summers, that family friend or whatever, and
what if any involvement you know he had in her
daughter's disappearance. This is where another twist comes in. She
says that Summers wasn't technically her friend. He'd been her
life long abuse her and it was he who abducted
(18:33):
and murdered Marlina, So we got to pass the bock, right. So,
according to Pamela, Summers's interest in her would come and go,
and it was one of those toxic, revolving door type relationships.
She said he would be horrible to her for long
periods of time, and then when he wanted something from her,
he would be nice and kind of charm his way
(18:55):
back in. And then other times he just left her
alone for months and she could kind of live her
own life, is what she says. Okay, she reported that
one day, and I said that really kind of callously.
I apologize, like I know that that's how it can
be an abusive relationship. So I'm not saying that that
didn't happen. Just with her situation right now, I'm just
(19:16):
not believing her.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But Okay, there's that I'm so confused.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I know, That's why I'm like stressed out with this one. Okay,
she reported that one day after Summer's called to arrange
a quote unquote date with her, she decided that enough
was enough, Which again, what do you mean he was
arranging a date with you when you had a live
in husband? You know what I mean? Like, that's where
I'm like, what's happening?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Do you ever see the movie Casino?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I feel like I have, But I reminds me of.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That Charon Stone. It's great in that movie, but she's
got this lizardy lester guy who she can't stop seeing,
even though she's married to Robert de Niro. Anyway, reminds
me of that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Okay, maybe I'll have to watch that, but okay, so
she decided, you know, enough's enough. Summer stopped by, but
instead of giving in to him, Pamela fought off his
advances and then threatened to call the police if he
didn't leave. She stated that his response was then to
threaten Marlena's life, which, okay, I can I can see
(20:17):
an abuser doing that, trying to use you know, your
child against you. Yeah. Then a few weeks later, there's
a screech of tires while she's washing dishes and Marlena
was gone. That's her new story, so he did it. Yeah,
it's pretty solid, right.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Uh, maybe that's sure.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
He was already an abusive person who had been tormenting
her for a while, according to her, and she'd had enough.
But it wasn't enough until he said it was like,
she's making it believable to an extent. Yeah, So the detectives.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Don't explain away, Sorry, does that explain away her false
confession to you if it's a false confession? I think
it kind of does, but not quite.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I don't think it does because she was already protected,
so she wouldn't have any reason to lie.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, it's that point. Yeah, and yeah, I mean that's
a very complicated area where with it too obviously? All right? Okay,
so now we have two suspects on the table, one confession.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Already and it's Recanta too. So then the detectives visited
pl Summers at his home and informed him of the
accusations that have been made against him. Of course, he
denied it. Why wouldn't He wouldn't be like, oh, yeah, here,
cuff me. But he right, yeah, but he doubled down
and called her a pathological liar. He told detectives that
(21:37):
he and Pamela had been involved briefly many years ago,
but he didn't even know that she had a daughter
at this point, so it sounds like he hadn't even
been in contact with her for over four years. He
provided his alibis for that day and he was cleared
from the suspect list almost immediately. But it doesn't mean
that he was a good guy.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
It didn't take but a few months and P. L.
Summers was arrested on charges of molesting a nine year
old boy. Of course, yes, he was arrested on charges
of aggravated sexual battery on September twenty ninth, nineteen eighty seven,
after the boy told his parents about it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So she's implicating a guy who can do it just
based on his criminal history and actions. After all this happens, correct,
the abusive claim is tough to disprove. He of course
is going to deny it.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Meanwhile she has confessed and then recanton. Just a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It gets worse, It gets so much fucking worse, dude,
all right? Ugh, Okay, so we know there's always sightings, right, So,
according to one former homicide detective, there was a potentially
credible sighting of Marlna at a Memphis hair salon just
six days after she went missing.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Which, how do's at work? She's four?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Well, she was with somebody else, But I could believe
this sighting over some other ones because she was still
in Tennessee at least.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You know, sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Two hairstylists claimed that a girl with a strong resemblance
to Marlena was brought into their salon by two grown
women who also appeared to be the guardian of a similar,
similarly aged boy. Oh my god, is that my new
word that I can't say.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
She's These two women brought the boy and the girl into.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And the girl correct, well, they needed a haircut. I mean,
it's like, what, it's April, they need a haircut for
a spring. I don't know, for the Easter pictures.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I don't know. If you've stolen a child.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Well you got to act like everything's normal, okay, right,
Or you.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Could just cut their hair in the kitchen and nobody
could see them and recognize them.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
That is a possibility. People could do that. Well, aren't smart, though.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I really don't know what's happened, all right, So there's
maybe a credible sighting. You think that's more credible than
maybe the other ones.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Possibly, Yeah, The women asked for the little girl's hair
to be styled, but during the cut, the little girl
kept sobbing and saying that she wanted her mother. The
stylists claimed that the women referred to the girl as Marlena,
but thought very little of the encounter until they saw
the girl's picture in a local newspaper, at which point
(24:17):
they seemed convinced that little Marlena and the sobbing child
were one and the same. They're like, ah, shit, like
that girl was here and crying for her mom.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So, following that reported sighting, Marlena's maternal grandfather drove all
the way to Memphis to personally verify the story. Lloyd
Strickland tracked down one of the women who had reportedly
brought Marlena for a haircut, but after she was questioned
by police, it was determined that the little girl had
not been as missing granddaughter, which really sad.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
But how did they determine that?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I wonder a bit, maybe they had a little girl
that was there and that was like the kid that
was at the salon. I'm assuming maybe it was just
their daughter, Okay, all right, so what about Pamela at
this point? Right? So many officers doubted Pam's story, and
others doubted her sanity at this point, but they all
agreed that without a body or any kind of solid evidence,
(25:10):
the chance of getting a conviction was highly improbable, so
she was free to do what she wanted to move
on with her life. She relocated to Mayfield, Kentucky, and
two years later, in early nineteen ninety, she gave birth
to a son named Casey. For twelve years, she was
living freely, not a care in the world, but that
was about to change because on April twenty second, two
(25:31):
thousand and two, just a few months after Casey's twelfth birthday,
Pamela told him that she had a surprise for him
and asked him to put on a blindfold. Oh no,
so Casey did as he was told before his mother
led him out to the car and helped her son
into the passenger seat. Keep in mind, six days prior
to this was the fifteenth anniversary of Marlena's disappearance. She
(25:53):
would have been nineteen if she had still been alive Pamela.
Pamela then drove her son all the way to the
prize location helped him out of the car, walked him
a little waist from the car, and Casey stated that
he could feel grass under his feet and that he
kept trying to take his blindfold off, but his mom
wouldn't let him. When she finally let him take it off,
he realized that he was in the cemetery. Oh happy,
(26:18):
I am not making this up. He looked around and
then noticed that he was standing in front of a
headstone that said son. And when he turned around, his
mom was holding a knife.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
What whirl.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
He immediately tried to run away, and that's when she
grabbed a shirt, stabbing him once in the back of
the neck and twice in the top of his shoulder.
He escaped, found help, and he recovered in the hospital.
So Pamela was arrested on charges of harming one of
her own children, but when questioned, she claimed that she
had no memory of the event and must have blacked out.
She was charged with attempted murder, but eventually pleaded no
(26:54):
contest to charges of second degree assault.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Second degree assault all right, yep.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
She received a in your prison sentence, but was released
after serving just two thirds of her time, and while
she was in prison, police took the opportunity to reopen
the investigation into the disappearance of Marlena, but despite best efforts,
they were unable to make any solid progress. So who
the fuck did it? Right? Like, what the fuck? Where
(27:21):
do we go from here?
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Right?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So I'll let you ponder that for a second, give
me some theories, and then I'll tell you where this
could eventually lead to. I'll tell you one of the
theories that popped up.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Ey, It's all how you want to look at it,
because especially in the eighties, I'm thinking that was the
time when it was most prominent, and it was still
very rare, but to abduct a child from public because
you couldn't get caught as easily as you could today.
So on the one hand, if you knew nothing else
(27:54):
about her before or after, especially after, it's a plausible story,
especially with the encounter at the gas station and then
the red car, but then obviously factoring what you know
about her, it's not a plausible story if you think
about it that way. Like if you flip it around
and her confession turned out to be accurate and real,
(28:17):
she's going to say, yeah, we saw this guy, we
saw this car, very specific license plates on that car,
even though it's in a different state. And I saw
that car driving away after I heard this squealing of
the tires. I didn't see the abduction, but that must
be what's happened. But it's not enough evidence, Like without
a body. Yeah, nobody cases were rare back then, but
(28:40):
this is even now. Would be a tough nobody in case. Exactly,
there's no evidence. There's no forensic evidence, you know, coroborate
anything her head on the corner of the kitchen table,
or blood on the corner of the kitchen table, or
her blood in the trunk, or any part of either
the confession or the recantation. You know, there's no physical
(29:00):
evidence in this case at all. So I don't know
what you do with it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Right, I told you I fell down a rabbit hole man. Okay. So,
despite having his name stricken from the list of potential suspects,
the involvement of the mysterious driver with the McCracken County
plates has never actually been fully explored. Not only was
his vehicle spotted speeding away from the scene of Marlena's abduction,
according to Mom, but they just so happened to bump
(29:26):
into one another at a gas station parking lote just
hours before. Kind of fishy. Police seemed to have assumed
that since Marlena wasn't sitting on the man's couch or
at his kitchen table, she couldn't possibly have been present.
But their search was kind of skin deep. They really
didn't look through his entire house.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
They have a warrant right that he can kick him
out anytime he wants.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
To, right. So one of the theories that I found
was what if Pamela was in cahoots with this mystery
driver and made a calculated decision to confuse and frustrate
any subse went investigation by claiming that she had been
her daughter's killer.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So that's insanity, right except the part where she takes
her son to the graveyard. Yes, I know when you
factor that in than anything's possible.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yes, But if that is the case, why arrange for
her daughter to be abducted in the first place?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Well, this e ex exactly great question.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
And then also what happened to the four month old kiddo? Like,
I never heard anything else about that one either.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I have no idea, But this guy said he was
at the gas station, so he at least confirmed that part.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Of it, and he confirmed talking to the little girl too.
M Yeah, but he never We never know what he
said or anything like that. And it could have been
something so innocent, harmless. If this guy had nothing to
do with it. He could have just been like, hey,
little girl, where's your mommy?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Exactly Like, you're walking into the gas station and this
four year old runs out with her candy and runs in. Yeah,
you're not going to turn around and walk away, right.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You're going to want to make sure nothing happens to her.
And then mom comes up and yells at you, and
you're like, all right, peace, you got it.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Here's the other theory that I think could lead to
if people want to hear it other episodes, either on
the main feed or Patreon. But what if she sold
Marlena interesting? Yeah, so and hear me out. Now this
stuff I did copy from the website. Will post it
in the link as well, or post the link in
the show notes as well. But between nineteen twenty four
(31:30):
and nineteen sixty, a woman from Memphis named Georgia tan
stole and sold up to five thousand different children. It's purport.
Hell yeah, that's a lot of children's Hang.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
On, hang on, how many years is that? For six years?
Five thousand divided by thirty six is one hundred and
thirty eight per year, which is well.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
There's three hundred and sixty five days in a year.
She's got time.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
That's one kid every three days for thirty six consent years.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
But here's how she can do it. She operated under
the cover of her position at the Tennessee Children's Home Society,
so she arranged, no, you listen, this is the only
theory I'm on board with right now.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, five thousand kids.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
That might be a little much, but I could see
a lot. So she arranged for It is speculated that
she arranged well, actually I don't know if it's speculator
or not. It says that this actually happens, so I'd
love to dig into it. But arranged for the children
to be adopted in exchange for vast sums of cash.
She performed no background checks on the people she sold
(32:42):
the children to, meaning that there is a good chance
that she deliberately sold the children to people who would
exploit their labor or exploit their innocence. Child trafficking TAN
charged anywhere from seven hundred to ten thousand dollars, and
during a speech in nineteen forty four, had the audacity
to accuse other adoption agencies of trafficking vulnerable children for profit.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well she's an expert. Well yeah, this is true.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Absolutely, she knows what she's talking about. She knows which
ones are scams. Come to her incredibly though, one child
stolen and sold by Georgia Tan. This is where it's
gonna get You grew up to a household name. Born
as Fred Phillips. Stop laughing, this is serious. Scott.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Vaguely, I have a friend who is really into wrestling.
I vaguely remember this.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Okay, so it's real true, it's real life, Okay. Born
as Fred Phillips, the Infant Boy was sold to Kathleen
and Richard Fleer Flear whatever however you pronounce that, sometime
in either nineteen forty eight nine or nineteen fifty, who
went on to settle in the state of Minnesota before
(33:53):
renaming the Boy Richard. The Boy grew up an athlete,
and by the early nineteen seventies was well on his
way to becoming the styling profiling, limousine riding, jet, flying,
kiss stealing, wheeling and delan son of a gun Rick
the Nature Boy Flair.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Do you guys watch wrestling?
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I've seen it. My mom used to be so into it.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I don't watch wrestling at all.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Once I figured out it was fake, it was boring.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, my mom made us do a pay per view
thing when I was like twelve. My dad was really
mad about it. And then I later learned that it
was all fake, and I was like, that's why he
was mad.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
But she So this is one that is my understanding,
is kind of true. I'd heard that story. I don't
know if it's true or urban legend, but let's assume
it's true. That's one. That's one kid.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But that's now you only have to find four nine
and ninety nine more.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yep, which is five thousand times harder, like more unlikely
than just the one kid.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You don't know that. We can just get our records.
I'm sure she did good bookkeeping, okay, But sadly she
died well I don't know sadly or not. Yeah, died
of uterine cancer three days before the state file charges
against her. So they had enough to file something against her,
you know.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, maybe like a kid or a couple of kids,
or over thirty years, several dozen kids. But five thousand
I'm having a hard time with.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
You can indict a hamd sandwich too. We've talked about that,
but it's true. Yes they had something, ye know, but
there was no evidence that the network she operated was
effectively dismantled. So it's estimated that she made somewhere in
the region of one hundred and twenty thousand dollars from
the sale of orphaned children.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Which is enough. Like, if you need the math on
five thousand.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
In today's money, though, that's one point two million dollars.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Right, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I'm just saying, well, you got to think about it.
She was charging anywhere from seven hundred to ten thousand,
so it just depends on the child and whatever people
were willing to pay her. And she's like, whatever, I
see dollars every three days.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
He's more expensive.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, wow, all right.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I don't know enough about this too. I'm in that
zone where like if you're at a party and someone
starts talking about reptilians and how they're running the government
and you have nowhere to.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Go, well, you know what, you just sit there and
listen then, because like what if this is what happened
to Marlena, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
That's thinking, yes, yes, I mean as possible, and it's
possible for a moment.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
It may not have been Georgia TN, but like what
if she was trafficked, because.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
It's absolutely possible. Yep.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Sorry, I thought on several holes on that one.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, yes, we did, all right, so we're not even
sure that she's dead, that Marlene actually died at any point. Yeah,
And what I should do is say on the show
that she's probably dead because then she will show up
somewhere alive.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Well, because that happens.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Now, because every time I do that, Yeah, that's exactly
what happens. It's amazing to me though, like that, there's
like there was a stretch there over the last year
where it seemed like once every week kid missing from
Kentucky is found in Mexico or Yeah, it's amazing. But yeah,
so who's got the motive?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Here?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Is the thing? Obviously the sale of the kid is
a financial motive. And but wouldn't they have like her
bank records if she got five grand or ten grand
from selling her daughter.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Or cash bro cash. Yeah, Well, and I think at
the beginning of the episode, we may have talked about
her death or whatever, and that's mainly because that was
the most credible.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Presumed dead yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Correct, yeah at the time because mom confessed, right, So,
but we don't actually know if she's dead.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Definitely, bodies never found. And remember the cap teeth y
comes into play there, because she'd be very young and
not unheard of but pretty rare for very young kids
dev like that. So but no remains ever found that
match that description either, obviously, So here we are. I
have a hard time with stories or cases where you
(37:49):
have so many people who behave irrationally, right, and it's
mostly her I guess she's kind of at the center
of the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Well, and she's saying that other people are behaving irrationally too,
so it's like everything is coming from her perspective.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
She's in the middle of it, yeah, and unable but
all right, just go back to the theory where she's
responsible for all of this and then made up a
story basically believe her confession before it was up candid
she's a very organized criminal in that she got away
with it, and the body was never found and no
physical evidence has ever found either. I guess it's possible,
(38:27):
but it's hard to square in your mind where a
quote unquote crazy person can be that organized.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, and I'd be really interested to see like her
mental health analysis, like her assessments and things, because if
she was in a psychiatric hospital, they would have done
an assessment on her, and I'd be really interested to
see what that showed, to see if has any bearing
on her behaviors and her saying these.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Though, like to me it would, I'd be like, I
don't know if it would, because diagnostics have changed so
much in forty years. H Like what they were calling
certain things were overdiagnosed or underdiagnosed, and certain things weren't
even a thing at all at that point. True, All right,
flip it around and say, what if she's telling a
(39:16):
story and she maybe has some mental issues before all this,
but certainly would as a result of this after. What
if her story is basically true and the red car
is the detail that she got wrong, and this really
is an abduction from in front of her house, but
the red car is not involved.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, I mean that's very possible. And trauma can do
a lot of things to somebody.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
So have you seen the long Island Serial Killer Netflix
thing yet.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
The Gone Girls, Yeah not yet, It's on my list.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So the reason I thought of it just now is
that one case I never really got wrapped up in,
but so many people did, and there were so many
like accusations and theories that turned out to be so wrong,
and when they figured out it was this guy through DNA,
all that went away like it was some kind of
conspiracy of local government officials that would have these crazy murderous,
(40:08):
you know, sex parties and hire these prostitutes or sex
workers and dump them all on the beach. People made
that accusation like publicly, and I was sitting there watching
it because now we have a resolution or at least
DNA linked to the guy who was arrested for it,
and no one like gets has to be accountable for
advancing any of those crazy theories like naming, yes, public officials,
(40:32):
but naming people by name, they turn out to be
so wrong and it's just oops, you know, they caught
the guy. Really bugs me. So I'm not saying in
this case a mom didn't do it, but just because
of her behavior before and especially after doesn't necessary, which
is why she was never indicted or arrested obviously, so
they didn't have enough. But it just I don't know it.
(40:55):
Could the crazier cases get, the more crazy the theories get,
and we'll just throw them around. I don't know. Yeah, anyway,
Mom did it now, I'm just kidding. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Wow, you just said something about people throwing names out there.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I was joking.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
It's frustrating though.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
It feels like we're missing something though. It feels like
there's a person here we don't know about, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Well, and that's why I was like, hey, Scott, check
this out and see if you can find anything. And
you were like, hey, man, I didn't get here right.
I was solving my own crimes over here.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
No, you did great. I mean, that's that's awesome. That's
thank you for doing all literally all of the work
on this.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Phow. No, it literally this one was really interesting. It
got me back into the groove. But like, I would
love if other people had more information about it, because
there's obviously key parts of this that we're missing that
you know, I could have just completely skipped over somehow.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, still open obviously, especially if it's a homeside. I'm
sure it's considered that way, so we will include all
the information in the show notes. If you know something
about this case through personal experience, Thank you for listening.
I don't know if I ever want to meet you
because this is a very strange case. But you never know.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
What if they were detective or something, yeah, could be.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I'm sure the cops on this case just wanted to
I'm sure they wished they had done something else with
their life. This is a nightmare. Yeah, the case confession
or can't and then she did it? She didn't? All right, Well,
thank you for the case. We'll get it out there
and let us know what you think. If you want
now do feel free and reach out Status Spending Podcast
(42:33):
gmail dot com. And I would love to hear which
of your theories is your favorite of that one or
maybe you have one of your own that you'd like
to share. We could do a Patreon follow up on that.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, and definitely share your case suggestions. Yes, we have
one right now that we're going to start digging into.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
So, yeah, we do. That was suggested to you, so
we will get into that. It's probably the next episode
you're going to hear. Thank you for listening, and we
will talk to you next time
Speaker 2 (42:59):
HI look, Going int
Welcome back to Statisfading. This is Scott Fuller. Heather Right
is here as well. We are glad you are all
listening to us, and we just may as well script this.
At the beginning of every episode we apologize for our absence,
but we are back here today. I think it's been
like three months January.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Something probably, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Sorry, it's life. Heather has drug herself here from the
clutches of death to join us, so we are blessed
by your presence. Heather. Thank you for for doing the
only record time I've agreed to in like weeks. But
it's been crazy all around.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah. Yeah, you can share your little stories if you
want after we record.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Oh yeah, there are so many. It's been a lifetime
of a couple of weeks here. But we are back
with a case here today, So thanks for hanging out
at this point. Do this because we want to and
when we can. This is going to be kind of
an older format in that I have no earthly idea
what's about to happen, just like you the listener, unless
(01:32):
she happened to be familiar with this case. So Heather
has done all the heavy lifting. She indicated there was
a lot of interesting research tidbits and seem like you
did get going on this one, so we'll let you
carry the episode. But I do want to after we
take a break, I will summarize the case that we're
(01:52):
talking today and we'll get to it right after this.
So first thing out I see of Heather's notes is, unfortunately,
today we are covering the death of a four year
old girl who was born on February seventeenth, nineteen eighty three,
passed away with four years old in a couple of
(02:14):
months in Union County or Union City, Tennessee. Again, she's four,
so she was four feet tall, weight listed at thirty
eight pounds, and as we'll learn, she was last seen
in her front yard. And when she was last seen,
she was wearing steel caps on her top and bottom, teeth,
eyes of blue hazel, and again just the denture work
(02:37):
is interesting at a four year old, but I have
seen that before on very young kids who need teeth help.
So she had those which are distinguishing features obviously for
a missing person. In the worst case last scene, wearing
light purple pants and a purple and white top, as
well as pink jelly shoes.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
I loved those when I was a kid. Oh, I
talk about all the time every time I see Jason
about them.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So what are they?
Speaker 2 (03:04):
They just look like think about Crocs, but cooler, smaller,
and the jelly was like some of it had sparkles,
so you get to get the pink sparkle, the white sparkle,
all kinds of colors, and I don't know, they were
just really cool. I'll have to send you a picture
them a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yeah, I was like six and I was obsessed.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Okay, well, so it is Marlena. By the way, I
haven't given her name. I don't think Marlena Danielle Childress.
That is about it. Her case is listed, as you
know in the typical missing person's databases. We will include
the agency of jurisdiction in the show notes. And with that,
(03:45):
we're going to turn things over to Heather to tell
us this story together. Again. Thank you to Heather for
heavy lifting and coming in to read this sick as
well that she did all the research on this one.
So we're going to Union City, ten See and again,
just for reference, this is back in the eighties. So
Marlena last scene at least in April of eighty seven, right.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yes, yeah, so, as Scott said, Marlena lived in Union City, Tennessee,
with her twenty two year old mother, Pamela Bailey, along
with her step father, Johnny, and her four month old
half brother Damon. Now also there was another kid involved.
It was her seven year old stepbrother, so Johnny's son
(04:32):
with somebody else, and his name was Jerry, who was
present until he was picked up by his mother at
around three in the afternoon on the day that Marlena
went missing. So, just thinking about it, a seven and
a four year old, they're pretty close in age. They're
playing a lot with each other, they're doing activity together.
So that was her little playmate until he left that day,
(04:54):
you know, leaving her to play by herself. So on
the day of her disappearance, it was a Thursday, April six, sixteenth,
at nineteen eighty seven, Marlena's mother, Pamela, had taken Marlena
and her brother Jerry to a nearby gas station to
pick up some candy. You know how kids are, They're like,
I want candy, I want candy, and they just don't
stop until they take that. They do they do. I
(05:14):
have nieces and nephews, and I know what.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
It's like all they ask for is granola bars and
fruit and asparagus.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Exactly, yeah, every time or corn. I'll have to tell
you that story later. Just best.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
So sad though it's the most innocent thing in the world.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
We'nocent, yeah, exactly. Yeah, And you know this makes it
even more sad, as any kid would Marlena was really
excited after she got the candy, so she like ran
out of the gas station to go back to the car,
and you know, she's four, so mom kind of freaks
out like, oh my gosh, and runs right after her outside,
but found that Marlena was already like outside and in
(05:52):
the presence of another person, a grown man, and just
kind of staring at him, just like in the parking lot.
And Pamela said that she didn't recognize this man.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Weird, So we started seconds after.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Seconds after, like I'm cashing out, she takes her candy,
runs out the door, I throw my change on the
counter and run after her kind of thing. Correct, Yeah,
And you know, as any mom would be, she was concerned, like,
oh my gosh, who is this man? This is kind
of weird. Why is he talking to my four year old?
Even if it wasn't a four year old girl, four
(06:25):
year old boy. It doesn't matter, I don't know, just
bad vibes. So he was talking to Marlena until Pamela
noticed and confronted him, at which point he walked away.
So Pamela quickly followed her daughter, you know, calling to
her saying, hey, you know, come back, like let's get
in the car or whatever. The man leaned forward like
this is what Pamela like witnessed like, he leaned forward,
(06:48):
towering over her, talking to her. So she kind of
mom kind of froze and then confronted him, and he
took off. He got in his car and left mom.
Pamela said that he was getting in to a red
car with McCracken County, Kentucky plates. Now keep in mind
we're in Tennessee, so that's going to stand out to
you no matter what state you're in. If this, if
(07:10):
the tag looks different, you're gonna look at it and
be like, oh, that's not the state.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
So is this like here in Wyoming, every county has
a prefix, which is how you can tell what county
it's from. How does she know an out of state
license plate county or at least I'm sure she found
out later what it was, but she just remembered something
about the plate that gave away the county.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
The great question. Yes, that's what one would assume until
you hear later as to why she knows this or
potentially why. But yeah, that's that's what my thought was, too, Like, Wow,
she's from a different state, but she knew that it
was McCracken County. Like I can look at a plate
and know it's a different state, but I'm not going
to know what county it is necessarily unless i'm Usually
I can't.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Like most there's a prefix or some license plates like
Iowa have the county written underneath in tiny letters, but
usually you can't tell.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, and Ohio, we have a little sticker that has
like the first three letters of the county that goes
on the left side of the plate.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
So maybe it's more common than I realized.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But okay, but if you're not familiar with the different
counties in that state, you're not going to know those
three letters are associated with that county necessarily, I wouldn't think.
But yeah, good question. I asked it too.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
I'm just here, I'm here to help.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm here as eye candy today.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, I mean, none of us can see you, but.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
You're doing I'm better looking if you can't see me.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Okay, okay, So later that day, back to back to
Pamela and Marlin. Okay, yes, sorry. Later that day, Pamela
was washing dishes in the kitchen and Marlena was playing
in the yard with some toys. As I said before,
Jerry had already left. So Pamela's kitchen sink was right
in front of a large double hung kitchen window, and that,
(08:55):
you know, really allowed her to keep an eye on Marlena,
which duh, any parent would want to do while kind
of getting housework done. So this was at about three thirty,
so Jerry had just left the house about thirty minutes
before that. She's playing in the yard alone. Everything seems
just fine. And then it was about, like I said,
(09:15):
three point thirty. Pamela indicated that she looked down briefly
while scrubbing some dishes, and then she heard a loud
screech of car tires on the pavement. When she looked up,
she saw a red vehicle with Kentucky license plates speeding
down the street away from her house. So Pamela reported
that she first kind of shrugged it off, like oh
that was weird, Like what a weird noise whatever, but
(09:37):
then immediately realized that something wasn't right because she didn't
see Marlena in the yard anymore. So she ran outside
looking all around for he couldn't find her, so she
hurried back inside called the police. She advised the police
that she believed Marlena had been abducted by a man
in a red car with McCracken County, Kentucky plates. She
informed the police that this is the same car that
(09:57):
she witnessed speeding down her street and at the gas
station earlier that day, when the man was talking to Marlena. Okay,
you're not leaving it.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
She's no, I am. It's it's terrifying. It's parents' worst nightmare,
your kids playing outside and here squeeching your squealing tires.
Nothing is good, you know, no matter what has happened,
it's not good. But again, she's indicating to police the county,
yeah already, that she knows the plate is from.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, and you know, for police, you know, that's quite
a lead. They're like, holy crap, Okay, let's get on
this right. So Union City Police department officials located a
red car, this specific red car apparently at his Kentucky home,
and although he admitted that he spoke to Marlena at
the gas station, so somehow they found the right guy,
(10:46):
which I don't understand. He did say that he was
pretty shocked to see the police on his doorstep. He
said he felt like he had nothing to hide, though,
so he consented a search of his home and you know,
that way the police could verify that he in facted
not have Marlena. And police did that and apparently ruled
him out, as well as her biological and her stepfather.
(11:09):
And this was after extensive interviews with both of them.
But it's just like the luck, Like I don't know
how far Union City, Tennessee, and McCracken County, Kentucky are
from each other, but that seems pretty lucky to find
that guy so quick.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So I guess you could look up if she had
a make and model of a car or what it
could be. How many might be in the.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
County potentially, Yeah, I guess so eighties.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
And if you say red car, yeah, you're not going
to get very far, but you give enough of a
dip if you know what kind of car it is,
or if you give enough of a description that they
can figure out maybe what two or three kinds of
cars it might be. And if it's a small county
in a area of car or you know, it's a
known guy to local law enforcement and they said, yeah,
(11:57):
you're gonna want to go check out that red car
guy first or something like that.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Who knows, right.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
But no, randomly they're not going to find it. They're
not driving around looking in driveways. I don't think.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, And I mean I guess she could have, you know,
reported it relatively quickly and they could have put a
bolo out for it, but like to track him down
to his house, it just seems like it had taken
a little while before they started looking, you know what
I mean, I don't know, lots of questions going through
my head. So after ruling out mister redcar Biodad and stepfather,
(12:29):
the investigation continued for another six weeks and the police
were coming up with absolutely nothing. But then somebody confessed,
Oh okay, uh huh. Pamela was talking to an investigator
named Stan Cavnis on June eighth, nineteen eighty seven, after
he was hired by a Pamela's family who were frustrated
(12:49):
because there was no progress in the case. Pamela and
San were in the middle of a tape recorded interview
when Pamela started describing the events of the day that
Marlena disappeared. Pamela then reported that Marlena's behaviors were becoming
increasingly unimagined or increasingly more unmanageable, I should say, getting worse,
causing Pamela to become more and more stressed out, not
(13:11):
really knowing how to handle her behaviors. And mind you,
she does have another child in the house, a baby,
so I can I can see where she could get
frustrated with behaviors, but not just frustrated.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So she told the investigator that she quote unquote snapped
and struck Marlena in the back of the head.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
What in the world?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Uh huh? Four year old Marlena?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
She reported that she hit her so hard that when
Marlena wobbled, she then fell, hitting her head on the
corner of a nearby table on the way down. She
stated that she then attempted to render first aid, but
realized that her temple hitting the corner of the table
is what killed her, so there was something she could get.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
She's confessing. She's confessing not to the police, but to
the investigators she hired.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Correct, Yeah, I told you, it's weird man. She then
reported that once she realized her daughter was in fact dead,
she hid her body in the trunk of her car,
then drove to Martin, which is a nearby town, contacted
a family friend named pl Summers, and arranged to meet
him at a bridge on Campground Road. There, they carried
(14:20):
the dead girl's corpse from the trunk of Pam's car,
according to her, and then tossed it into the Obien River. Now,
I meant to look up more about the Obian River
because there's like a whole lot of stuff about it,
like certain times of the year when it rains and
things like that. So I just summarized a little bit
of what the police said about it during the investigation.
(14:42):
So I'll get to that in a second. But her
investigator friend then asked her to confirm that everything she
was saying was actually true, and when she did, he
said that he has to tell the police, and she said,
I understand, Like, Pamela, what the fuck. He then contacted
the Union City police and for them of her confession,
and she was subsequently arrested on charges of second degree
(15:04):
murder and a team of highly trained police divers were
sent to basically search the Obian for any trace of
Marlena's remains. Is that where she actually.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Was at this point? I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
I'm telling you, I fell down some rabbit holes, man.
So according to Pamela, she and her friend had tossed
her daughter's body into the water during the very early
morning hours of April seventeenth, so the day after she
had disappeared, and this was a time when most of
the spring rains had come and gone according to the
(15:38):
local weather people there. And this meant that by early
June a team of divers would most likely not have
been able to recover any human remains that were tossed
into it just two months prior, because like, there's no
way to locate them at that point.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So they can't disprove this confession just because the body's
not in the river or in correct.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, But strangely, bite an intense search that spanned multiple days,
not a single trace of her body could be found.
But here's here's some backpaling for you. Homicide detectives weren't
buying her story, thank god, and decided to pay her
a visit in jail to clear up some inconsistencies because
what I gave you was a summary of what she
(16:19):
had told them, but some of the facts that she
had given and the timestamps just didn't add up for them.
So they were like, Okay, we need to clear this up.
We need to figure out what else is going on.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
To their credit, because cops will love a confession, you know,
especially where a little bit of time has gone by,
but they have to go coroborate it. They can't coroberate it,
and so they start asking our aunt, why is this
lady saying she did this? Is she covering for somebody else?
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Or who knows exactly? I knew you were a cop.
I knew it. So they merely go there and, you know,
just ask her to confirm the location of the dumping site.
They're like, hey, we've been looking. We really want to
locate your daughter's body, Like we need to give some
closure to you and the rest of your family. Help
us out where exactly did you throw her body over?
(17:05):
And with that she was like, ah, JK. She recanted
her entire confession.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
M come on, mom, Wow, all right, so why is
she recanting her confession?
Speaker 2 (17:17):
She said that just days prior to the taped conversation
with that PI, she'd been released from a psychiatric hospital.
She said the stress of losing her daughter had been
too much to bear, so after a brief stay under
the care of medical professionals, she was released, having been
prescribed a cocktail of antidepressants. She then claimed that not
(17:39):
only had she been high during the taped confession with
the PI, but he'd heavily intimidated her prior to recording
the conversation, having used the threat of the electric chair
to coerce a confession, which, hold the fuck up, you
guys hired him? Why would he do that?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
How many clients does this guy have? If the first
thing he does is you did it.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
You did it.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
We're gonna make sure you get fed for it.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
We're gonna put you in the chair.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
And then she's like, oh, okay, I'll just confess them.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
So we don't know what's going on with this lady,
not yet, no, okay.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
But then she implicates somebody else. Police asked her about
good old pl Summers, that family friend or whatever, and
what if any involvement you know he had in her
daughter's disappearance. This is where another twist comes in. She
says that Summers wasn't technically her friend. He'd been her
life long abuse her and it was he who abducted
(18:33):
and murdered Marlina, So we got to pass the bock, right. So,
according to Pamela, Summers's interest in her would come and go,
and it was one of those toxic, revolving door type relationships.
She said he would be horrible to her for long
periods of time, and then when he wanted something from her,
he would be nice and kind of charm his way
(18:55):
back in. And then other times he just left her
alone for months and she could kind of live her
own life, is what she says. Okay, she reported that
one day, and I said that really kind of callously.
I apologize, like I know that that's how it can
be an abusive relationship. So I'm not saying that that
didn't happen. Just with her situation right now, I'm just
(19:16):
not believing her.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But Okay, there's that I'm so confused.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I know, That's why I'm like stressed out with this one. Okay,
she reported that one day after Summer's called to arrange
a quote unquote date with her, she decided that enough
was enough, Which again, what do you mean he was
arranging a date with you when you had a live
in husband? You know what I mean? Like, that's where
I'm like, what's happening?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
Do you ever see the movie Casino?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
I feel like I have, But I reminds me of.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
That Charon Stone. It's great in that movie, but she's
got this lizardy lester guy who she can't stop seeing,
even though she's married to Robert de Niro. Anyway, reminds
me of that.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Okay, maybe I'll have to watch that, but okay, so
she decided, you know, enough's enough. Summer stopped by, but
instead of giving in to him, Pamela fought off his
advances and then threatened to call the police if he
didn't leave. She stated that his response was then to
threaten Marlena's life, which, okay, I can I can see
(20:17):
an abuser doing that, trying to use you know, your
child against you. Yeah. Then a few weeks later, there's
a screech of tires while she's washing dishes and Marlena
was gone. That's her new story, so he did it. Yeah,
it's pretty solid, right.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Uh, maybe that's sure.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
He was already an abusive person who had been tormenting
her for a while, according to her, and she'd had enough.
But it wasn't enough until he said it was like,
she's making it believable to an extent. Yeah, So the detectives.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Don't explain away, Sorry, does that explain away her false
confession to you if it's a false confession? I think
it kind of does, but not quite.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
I don't think it does because she was already protected,
so she wouldn't have any reason to lie.
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, it's that point. Yeah, and yeah, I mean that's
a very complicated area where with it too obviously? All right? Okay,
so now we have two suspects on the table, one confession.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Already and it's Recanta too. So then the detectives visited
pl Summers at his home and informed him of the
accusations that have been made against him. Of course, he
denied it. Why wouldn't He wouldn't be like, oh, yeah, here,
cuff me. But he right, yeah, but he doubled down
and called her a pathological liar. He told detectives that
(21:37):
he and Pamela had been involved briefly many years ago,
but he didn't even know that she had a daughter
at this point, so it sounds like he hadn't even
been in contact with her for over four years. He
provided his alibis for that day and he was cleared
from the suspect list almost immediately. But it doesn't mean
that he was a good guy.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
It didn't take but a few months and P. L.
Summers was arrested on charges of molesting a nine year
old boy. Of course, yes, he was arrested on charges
of aggravated sexual battery on September twenty ninth, nineteen eighty seven,
after the boy told his parents about it.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So she's implicating a guy who can do it just
based on his criminal history and actions. After all this happens, correct,
the abusive claim is tough to disprove. He of course
is going to deny it.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Meanwhile she has confessed and then recanton. Just a nightmare.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
It gets worse, It gets so much fucking worse, dude,
all right? Ugh, Okay, so we know there's always sightings, right, So,
according to one former homicide detective, there was a potentially
credible sighting of Marlna at a Memphis hair salon just
six days after she went missing.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Which, how do's at work? She's four?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Well, she was with somebody else, But I could believe
this sighting over some other ones because she was still
in Tennessee at least.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
You know, sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Two hairstylists claimed that a girl with a strong resemblance
to Marlena was brought into their salon by two grown
women who also appeared to be the guardian of a similar,
similarly aged boy. Oh my god, is that my new
word that I can't say.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
She's These two women brought the boy and the girl into.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
And the girl correct, well, they needed a haircut. I mean,
it's like, what, it's April, they need a haircut for
a spring. I don't know, for the Easter pictures.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
I don't know. If you've stolen a child.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Well you got to act like everything's normal, okay, right,
Or you.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Could just cut their hair in the kitchen and nobody
could see them and recognize them.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
That is a possibility. People could do that. Well, aren't smart, though.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I really don't know what's happened, all right, So there's
maybe a credible sighting. You think that's more credible than
maybe the other ones.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Possibly, Yeah, The women asked for the little girl's hair
to be styled, but during the cut, the little girl
kept sobbing and saying that she wanted her mother. The
stylists claimed that the women referred to the girl as Marlena,
but thought very little of the encounter until they saw
the girl's picture in a local newspaper, at which point
(24:17):
they seemed convinced that little Marlena and the sobbing child
were one and the same. They're like, ah, shit, like
that girl was here and crying for her mom.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So, following that reported sighting, Marlena's maternal grandfather drove all
the way to Memphis to personally verify the story. Lloyd
Strickland tracked down one of the women who had reportedly
brought Marlena for a haircut, but after she was questioned
by police, it was determined that the little girl had
not been as missing granddaughter, which really sad.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
But how did they determine that?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I wonder a bit, maybe they had a little girl
that was there and that was like the kid that
was at the salon. I'm assuming maybe it was just
their daughter, Okay, all right, so what about Pamela at
this point? Right? So many officers doubted Pam's story, and
others doubted her sanity at this point, but they all
agreed that without a body or any kind of solid evidence,
(25:10):
the chance of getting a conviction was highly improbable, so
she was free to do what she wanted to move
on with her life. She relocated to Mayfield, Kentucky, and
two years later, in early nineteen ninety, she gave birth
to a son named Casey. For twelve years, she was
living freely, not a care in the world, but that
was about to change because on April twenty second, two
(25:31):
thousand and two, just a few months after Casey's twelfth birthday,
Pamela told him that she had a surprise for him
and asked him to put on a blindfold. Oh no,
so Casey did as he was told before his mother
led him out to the car and helped her son
into the passenger seat. Keep in mind, six days prior
to this was the fifteenth anniversary of Marlena's disappearance. She
(25:53):
would have been nineteen if she had still been alive Pamela.
Pamela then drove her son all the way to the
prize location helped him out of the car, walked him
a little waist from the car, and Casey stated that
he could feel grass under his feet and that he
kept trying to take his blindfold off, but his mom
wouldn't let him. When she finally let him take it off,
he realized that he was in the cemetery. Oh happy,
(26:18):
I am not making this up. He looked around and
then noticed that he was standing in front of a
headstone that said son. And when he turned around, his
mom was holding a knife.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
What whirl.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
He immediately tried to run away, and that's when she
grabbed a shirt, stabbing him once in the back of
the neck and twice in the top of his shoulder.
He escaped, found help, and he recovered in the hospital.
So Pamela was arrested on charges of harming one of
her own children, but when questioned, she claimed that she
had no memory of the event and must have blacked out.
She was charged with attempted murder, but eventually pleaded no
(26:54):
contest to charges of second degree assault.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Second degree assault all right, yep.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
She received a in your prison sentence, but was released
after serving just two thirds of her time, and while
she was in prison, police took the opportunity to reopen
the investigation into the disappearance of Marlena, but despite best efforts,
they were unable to make any solid progress. So who
the fuck did it? Right? Like, what the fuck? Where
(27:21):
do we go from here?
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Right?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
So I'll let you ponder that for a second, give
me some theories, and then I'll tell you where this
could eventually lead to. I'll tell you one of the
theories that popped up.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Ey, It's all how you want to look at it,
because especially in the eighties, I'm thinking that was the
time when it was most prominent, and it was still
very rare, but to abduct a child from public because
you couldn't get caught as easily as you could today.
So on the one hand, if you knew nothing else
(27:54):
about her before or after, especially after, it's a plausible story,
especially with the encounter at the gas station and then
the red car, but then obviously factoring what you know
about her, it's not a plausible story if you think
about it that way. Like if you flip it around
and her confession turned out to be accurate and real,
(28:17):
she's going to say, yeah, we saw this guy, we
saw this car, very specific license plates on that car,
even though it's in a different state. And I saw
that car driving away after I heard this squealing of
the tires. I didn't see the abduction, but that must
be what's happened. But it's not enough evidence, Like without
a body. Yeah, nobody cases were rare back then, but
(28:40):
this is even now. Would be a tough nobody in case. Exactly,
there's no evidence. There's no forensic evidence, you know, coroborate
anything her head on the corner of the kitchen table,
or blood on the corner of the kitchen table, or
her blood in the trunk, or any part of either
the confession or the recantation. You know, there's no physical
(29:00):
evidence in this case at all. So I don't know
what you do with it.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Right, I told you I fell down a rabbit hole man. Okay. So,
despite having his name stricken from the list of potential suspects,
the involvement of the mysterious driver with the McCracken County
plates has never actually been fully explored. Not only was
his vehicle spotted speeding away from the scene of Marlena's abduction,
according to Mom, but they just so happened to bump
(29:26):
into one another at a gas station parking lote just
hours before. Kind of fishy. Police seemed to have assumed
that since Marlena wasn't sitting on the man's couch or
at his kitchen table, she couldn't possibly have been present.
But their search was kind of skin deep. They really
didn't look through his entire house.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
They have a warrant right that he can kick him
out anytime he wants.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
To, right. So one of the theories that I found
was what if Pamela was in cahoots with this mystery
driver and made a calculated decision to confuse and frustrate
any subse went investigation by claiming that she had been
her daughter's killer.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
So that's insanity, right except the part where she takes
her son to the graveyard. Yes, I know when you
factor that in than anything's possible.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yes, But if that is the case, why arrange for
her daughter to be abducted in the first place?
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Well, this e ex exactly great question.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
And then also what happened to the four month old kiddo? Like,
I never heard anything else about that one either.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I have no idea, But this guy said he was
at the gas station, so he at least confirmed that part.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Of it, and he confirmed talking to the little girl too.
M Yeah, but he never We never know what he
said or anything like that. And it could have been
something so innocent, harmless. If this guy had nothing to
do with it. He could have just been like, hey,
little girl, where's your mommy?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Exactly Like, you're walking into the gas station and this
four year old runs out with her candy and runs in. Yeah,
you're not going to turn around and walk away, right.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You're going to want to make sure nothing happens to her.
And then mom comes up and yells at you, and
you're like, all right, peace, you got it.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Here's the other theory that I think could lead to
if people want to hear it other episodes, either on
the main feed or Patreon. But what if she sold
Marlena interesting? Yeah, so and hear me out. Now this
stuff I did copy from the website. Will post it
in the link as well, or post the link in
the show notes as well. But between nineteen twenty four
(31:30):
and nineteen sixty, a woman from Memphis named Georgia tan
stole and sold up to five thousand different children. It's purport.
Hell yeah, that's a lot of children's Hang.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
On, hang on, how many years is that? For six years?
Five thousand divided by thirty six is one hundred and
thirty eight per year, which is well.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
There's three hundred and sixty five days in a year.
She's got time.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
That's one kid every three days for thirty six consent years.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
But here's how she can do it. She operated under
the cover of her position at the Tennessee Children's Home Society,
so she arranged, no, you listen, this is the only
theory I'm on board with right now.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Okay, five thousand kids.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
That might be a little much, but I could see
a lot. So she arranged for It is speculated that
she arranged well, actually I don't know if it's speculator
or not. It says that this actually happens, so I'd
love to dig into it. But arranged for the children
to be adopted in exchange for vast sums of cash.
She performed no background checks on the people she sold
(32:42):
the children to, meaning that there is a good chance
that she deliberately sold the children to people who would
exploit their labor or exploit their innocence. Child trafficking TAN
charged anywhere from seven hundred to ten thousand dollars, and
during a speech in nineteen forty four, had the audacity
to accuse other adoption agencies of trafficking vulnerable children for profit.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well she's an expert. Well yeah, this is true.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Absolutely, she knows what she's talking about. She knows which
ones are scams. Come to her incredibly though, one child
stolen and sold by Georgia Tan. This is where it's
gonna get You grew up to a household name. Born
as Fred Phillips. Stop laughing, this is serious. Scott.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Vaguely, I have a friend who is really into wrestling.
I vaguely remember this.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Okay, so it's real true, it's real life, Okay. Born
as Fred Phillips, the Infant Boy was sold to Kathleen
and Richard Fleer Flear whatever however you pronounce that, sometime
in either nineteen forty eight nine or nineteen fifty, who
went on to settle in the state of Minnesota before
(33:53):
renaming the Boy Richard. The Boy grew up an athlete,
and by the early nineteen seventies was well on his
way to becoming the styling profiling, limousine riding, jet, flying,
kiss stealing, wheeling and delan son of a gun Rick
the Nature Boy Flair.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Do you guys watch wrestling?
Speaker 2 (34:10):
I've seen it. My mom used to be so into it.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
I don't watch wrestling at all.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Once I figured out it was fake, it was boring.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, my mom made us do a pay per view
thing when I was like twelve. My dad was really
mad about it. And then I later learned that it
was all fake, and I was like, that's why he
was mad.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
But she So this is one that is my understanding,
is kind of true. I'd heard that story. I don't
know if it's true or urban legend, but let's assume
it's true. That's one. That's one kid.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
But that's now you only have to find four nine
and ninety nine more.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yep, which is five thousand times harder, like more unlikely
than just the one kid.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
You don't know that. We can just get our records.
I'm sure she did good bookkeeping, okay, But sadly she
died well I don't know sadly or not. Yeah, died
of uterine cancer three days before the state file charges
against her. So they had enough to file something against her,
you know.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, maybe like a kid or a couple of kids,
or over thirty years, several dozen kids. But five thousand
I'm having a hard time with.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
You can indict a hamd sandwich too. We've talked about that,
but it's true. Yes they had something, ye know, but
there was no evidence that the network she operated was
effectively dismantled. So it's estimated that she made somewhere in
the region of one hundred and twenty thousand dollars from
the sale of orphaned children.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Which is enough. Like, if you need the math on
five thousand.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
In today's money, though, that's one point two million dollars.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Right, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I'm just saying, well, you got to think about it.
She was charging anywhere from seven hundred to ten thousand,
so it just depends on the child and whatever people
were willing to pay her. And she's like, whatever, I
see dollars every three days.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
He's more expensive.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, wow, all right.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
I don't know enough about this too. I'm in that
zone where like if you're at a party and someone
starts talking about reptilians and how they're running the government
and you have nowhere to.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Go, well, you know what, you just sit there and
listen then, because like what if this is what happened
to Marlena, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
That's thinking, yes, yes, I mean as possible, and it's
possible for a moment.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
It may not have been Georgia TN, but like what
if she was trafficked, because.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
It's absolutely possible. Yep.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Sorry, I thought on several holes on that one.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, yes, we did, all right, so we're not even
sure that she's dead, that Marlene actually died at any point. Yeah,
And what I should do is say on the show
that she's probably dead because then she will show up
somewhere alive.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Well, because that happens.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Now, because every time I do that, Yeah, that's exactly
what happens. It's amazing to me though, like that, there's
like there was a stretch there over the last year
where it seemed like once every week kid missing from
Kentucky is found in Mexico or Yeah, it's amazing. But yeah,
so who's got the motive?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Here?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Is the thing? Obviously the sale of the kid is
a financial motive. And but wouldn't they have like her
bank records if she got five grand or ten grand
from selling her daughter.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Or cash bro cash. Yeah, Well, and I think at
the beginning of the episode, we may have talked about
her death or whatever, and that's mainly because that was
the most credible.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Presumed dead yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Correct, yeah at the time because mom confessed, right, So,
but we don't actually know if she's dead.
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Definitely, bodies never found. And remember the cap teeth y
comes into play there, because she'd be very young and
not unheard of but pretty rare for very young kids
dev like that. So but no remains ever found that
match that description either, obviously, So here we are. I
have a hard time with stories or cases where you
(37:49):
have so many people who behave irrationally, right, and it's
mostly her I guess she's kind of at the center
of the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Well, and she's saying that other people are behaving irrationally too,
so it's like everything is coming from her perspective.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
She's in the middle of it, yeah, and unable but
all right, just go back to the theory where she's
responsible for all of this and then made up a
story basically believe her confession before it was up candid
she's a very organized criminal in that she got away
with it, and the body was never found and no
physical evidence has ever found either. I guess it's possible,
(38:27):
but it's hard to square in your mind where a
quote unquote crazy person can be that organized.
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, and I'd be really interested to see like her
mental health analysis, like her assessments and things, because if
she was in a psychiatric hospital, they would have done
an assessment on her, and I'd be really interested to
see what that showed, to see if has any bearing
on her behaviors and her saying these.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Though, like to me it would, I'd be like, I
don't know if it would, because diagnostics have changed so
much in forty years. H Like what they were calling
certain things were overdiagnosed or underdiagnosed, and certain things weren't
even a thing at all at that point. True, All right,
flip it around and say, what if she's telling a
(39:16):
story and she maybe has some mental issues before all this,
but certainly would as a result of this after. What
if her story is basically true and the red car
is the detail that she got wrong, and this really
is an abduction from in front of her house, but
the red car is not involved.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Yeah, I mean that's very possible. And trauma can do
a lot of things to somebody.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
So have you seen the long Island Serial Killer Netflix
thing yet.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
The Gone Girls, Yeah not yet, It's on my list.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
So the reason I thought of it just now is
that one case I never really got wrapped up in,
but so many people did, and there were so many
like accusations and theories that turned out to be so wrong,
and when they figured out it was this guy through DNA,
all that went away like it was some kind of
conspiracy of local government officials that would have these crazy murderous,
(40:08):
you know, sex parties and hire these prostitutes or sex
workers and dump them all on the beach. People made
that accusation like publicly, and I was sitting there watching
it because now we have a resolution or at least
DNA linked to the guy who was arrested for it,
and no one like gets has to be accountable for
advancing any of those crazy theories like naming, yes, public officials,
(40:32):
but naming people by name, they turn out to be
so wrong and it's just oops, you know, they caught
the guy. Really bugs me. So I'm not saying in
this case a mom didn't do it, but just because
of her behavior before and especially after doesn't necessary, which
is why she was never indicted or arrested obviously, so
they didn't have enough. But it just I don't know it.
(40:55):
Could the crazier cases get, the more crazy the theories get,
and we'll just throw them around. I don't know. Yeah, anyway,
Mom did it now, I'm just kidding. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Wow, you just said something about people throwing names out there.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I was joking.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
It's frustrating though.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
It feels like we're missing something though. It feels like
there's a person here we don't know about, you know.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Well, and that's why I was like, hey, Scott, check
this out and see if you can find anything. And
you were like, hey, man, I didn't get here right.
I was solving my own crimes over here.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
No, you did great. I mean, that's that's awesome. That's
thank you for doing all literally all of the work
on this.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Phow. No, it literally this one was really interesting. It
got me back into the groove. But like, I would
love if other people had more information about it, because
there's obviously key parts of this that we're missing that
you know, I could have just completely skipped over somehow.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, still open obviously, especially if it's a homeside. I'm
sure it's considered that way, so we will include all
the information in the show notes. If you know something
about this case through personal experience, Thank you for listening.
I don't know if I ever want to meet you
because this is a very strange case. But you never know.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
What if they were detective or something, yeah, could be.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
I'm sure the cops on this case just wanted to
I'm sure they wished they had done something else with
their life. This is a nightmare. Yeah, the case confession
or can't and then she did it? She didn't? All right, Well,
thank you for the case. We'll get it out there
and let us know what you think. If you want
now do feel free and reach out Status Spending Podcast
(42:33):
gmail dot com. And I would love to hear which
of your theories is your favorite of that one or
maybe you have one of your own that you'd like
to share. We could do a Patreon follow up on that.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, and definitely share your case suggestions. Yes, we have
one right now that we're going to start digging into.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
So, yeah, we do. That was suggested to you, so
we will get into that. It's probably the next episode
you're going to hear. Thank you for listening, and we
will talk to you next time
Speaker 2 (42:59):
HI look, Going int
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.