The ignored disappearance of Randy Michaels

Randy Michaels has been missing since May 15, 2021.

He was last seen leaving the Steel City Bar on East Midlothian Boulevard in Youngstown, Ohio at about 1:30 a.m.

STILL UNSOLVED INVESTIGATION

Youngstown Police Department @ [phone]

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome back to status spending in thecase Overview series. Scott Fuller back with
you, and Heather right is withus as well. It's been another little
bit of a mini break, butwe are back today. Heather, how
are you pretty good? Pretty good? Finally able to swim? Yeah,
one and a half times now,so pretty good. What's a half a

(00:21):
time swimming? Um? I justI was really excited, so I just
swam for like thirty minutes even thoughit was too cold to swim. That's
a full swim thirty minutes. Well, I mean I just kept jumping in
and it was just cold and itjust never really got warm. So it
doesn't count. It doesn't count.Whatever. You're a pool your math Yep,
Well that's good. Yeah, itis summer. I'm sure it's starting

(00:42):
to feel like summer everywhere that peopleare listening to us, at least in
a northern hemisphere. And yeah,it's getting to that point in the Midwest
where it's warm enough to be muggyenough where I'm like, nah, yeah,
just staying super spicy outside. It'slike eighty eight here right now.
But as an update, for partof the reason we've been aking so long
is I'm like moving tomorrow, likenow, And just today we bought a

(01:04):
house and we sold a house,so not closed, but in like six
weeks we have to be in Wyoming. Yeah, it's been yesterday and he
like sold his house today and boughta new house today and it's just like
all happening for him all. It'sprobably been a week and a half of
actions basically a day though. Yeah, it's been like a week and a
half of actual We're going to doit now, because we could have done

(01:26):
it anytime we wanted to, butit was decided for me that it was
going to happen this summer, andso let's go and wow, Yeah there's
a lot that thing. The kidssay, yolo, there you go,
yolo. Yeah, We'll see whatI'm saying when I'm in the hospital after
moving my couch. That's a difference. She said, sell it all and
start over. That's too long ofa drive for all that furniture. Wouldn't
it be cool if you could justlike teleport that stuff or just donate it

(01:49):
to people in Yeah, I knowyou can hire people to come in with
white gloves on and pack all yourso you don't even have to pack boxes
anymore. Yeah, that's expensive.It's like thirty and so good buy a
small house for that. Not notanymore, trust me. But no,
we're gonna do it the old fashionedway at least most of its huh.

(02:12):
Yeah, we'll see. My attitudemight change after day and a half.
Like, no, I don't careif I have to cash out my four
O one case screw this. Soif you guys don't hear from us until
August, you know why. Ijust don't be On an unrelated notepatreon dot
com. Please pay for my movingfund now. We're gonna try and get
better about this more regular. Butit has been a very busy summer for

(02:36):
me, and I know you hadstuff earlier in the last couple of weeks
and months as well. So weare here today. Yeah, it's like
a vacation after what five years orsomething like that. Yeah, it's just
all catching up to us at once. And it's funny about the routine.
If you want to slip out,it's really hard to get back into it.
Yeah, ask me about my otherpodcast that apparently exists that I keep

(03:00):
forgetting about. It's hard once I'mgoing I'm fine. Yeah, yeah,
but we forced ourselves for the lovewe have for you guys to be back
here. Unfortunately, I'm sure eventhough it's Heather's case, I'm sure the
circumstances are not great. Just bythe nature of our podcast. If your
first time listener, we cover casesthat are unsolved, unresolved, or have

(03:22):
lingering questions and basically just advocate forthem, do a good amount of top
level research to bring the details ofthe case public, and then a case
a week is what we do.So we'll do that with Heather's case coming
up next. I know it's beena while since you took your notes for
this episode because we took another break, so we'll forgive you an advance for

(03:47):
any new information that you're relearning.I guess as you tell us our story
this week, Hey, it's goingto surprise all of us. Okay,
But I do want to give ashout out to Courtney. She's one of
our deaf it like, I don'tknow what we would call her MVPs if
you will. Yeah, she's justalways there supporting us, always giving us
case suggestions. Follow ups. Actually, I have a follow up that I

(04:11):
want to do next time we recordon one of our cases from last year.
But she also, yeah, fromSeptember of last year, which one
Irene. Yeah Gaqua, I alwaysmispronounced her last name. Yeah, so
there's an update in that case.But yeah, so this case was suggested
by Courtney as well. So RandyMichaels, all right, we'll pause on

(04:32):
that because Courtney got mad at meand I'm not sure I ever fessed up.
Did she talk to you about thisabout the bourbon? Yeah? Yeah,
so a couple of episodes ago,I made a misstatement apparently about bourbon
is only bourbon if it comes fromKentucky? Is that what I said?
I think it was something along thoselines, But that is a huge thing

(04:56):
that is believed. Well, yeah, I found that out because Courtney,
like seven o'clock in the morning isblowing up my phone like, dear sir,
I have a bone to pick withyou about I'm like, what did
I do? Know a lot aboutbourbon? So I can't even remember what
she said the definition of bourbon was, but that it can come from anywhere.
So it's a misconception. Just likeChampagne has to come from the Champagne

(05:17):
region of France, it's true.The same apparently is not true for bourbon
when it comes to Kentucky. SoI hereby formally apologize to Courtney and any
other bourbon drinking people that I offendedwith my gross misstatement about the nature and
classification of bourbon. I know welive in very sensitive times, and I

(05:40):
just want to be open and awareof that. I just want to respect
everybody. I don't think she wasactually mad at you, though, just
so we make everybody she wasn't.Courtney's not like that. But it was
funny because she was a little bitirritated enough to text me at seven o'clock
in the morning. Well, correct, that's her, that's her routine.
She listens to us on her wayto work. Yeah, fortunately she didn't

(06:01):
drive off the interstate when she waslistening. Anyway, we do love Courtney.
And this is where we're Randy iswhere the case comes from Courtney.
So yes, this came from Courtney. This is Randy Michaels. This is
an Ohio case. Also, Youngstown, Ohio is where he went missing from.
So he was last seen leaving theSteel City Bar and Grill, which

(06:21):
is located on mid Lothian Avenue.And that was it. About one thirty
am on May fifteenth, twenty twentyone, so about two years ago,
a little over two years ago nowhe was thirty five years old, sorry,
so thirty five now thirty three atthe time he went missing. His

(06:43):
thirty fifth birthday was April twenty four, five seven, one hundred and sixty
five pounds, black hair, browneyes, blackmail. He graduated from Campbell
Memorial High School and was a rooferby trade. Like, if you see
these photos, I'll send them toyou and we could post them as well.
Like, he just looks like agenuinely happy person. He doesn't look
like he um, you know,as like mad at the world or you

(07:05):
know how people kind of describe,you know, some individuals as you know,
stay away from that person. Theylook scary. Yeah, he just
doesn't look He doesn't appear that way, at least in these photos that I
see of him. And I diddelve into the Facebook page that his mom
created as well, and he justlooks like a very very happy person.

(07:26):
Honestly. He was described as afamily man. He had three daughters,
very very young daughters. He justseven, six and two at the time
he went missing, and in orderto see them, he would often walk
from Campbell to Brownley Woods. Sincehe didn't have a car, and I
look that up, that's about anhour and fifteen minute walk. So he

(07:48):
definitely loved his children and did whateverhe could he could, you know,
to see them without having a car. Yeah. According to his mom,
he would talk to her several timesa day and even talked to her earlier
that day before he went missing.So I don't know exactly what was going

(08:09):
on in his life prior to hisdisappearance. And according to his mom and
other family members and friends, nobodyeven knew why he was at Steel City
before he went missing, Like whyhe was at that bar and grill.
But again, it's a bar andgrill, so he could have been there
to eat dinner. He could havebeen there to meet up with some friends

(08:30):
like that to me isn't a redflag. But we say what time it
is, So he went missing atone thirty in the morning. Okay,
so more for the bar part thanthe grill part. Correct, Yeah,
but depending on when he got there. If we had more of a timeline
of like, hey, he leftwork at such as such time and then
he went there, you know,that would definitely help. Yeah, I've

(08:52):
never done that. From six PMto one thirty never Never Namess website indicates
that he is described as a homelessman and sleeping on porches or vacant homes
or other shelter like areas at thetime he went missing. Now I can't
confirm that, and that's the onlyplace that I saw that kind of information,
but I thought that it was worthnoting just because we know that he

(09:15):
doesn't have a car, he didn'thave any type of transportation at the time,
and I couldn't find anything saying likeexactly where he resided, just the
general area, like nothing saying ohhe lived here with so and so or
anything like that. So I can'tconfirm nor deny that, but I feel

(09:35):
like his mom would have, youknow, said something about that when she
was interviewed the several times. Idon't know. Again, I can't,
I can't be certain, but Ithought I was worth noting. Yeah,
it would be. I mean,if we think he's the victim of a
crime, then that's a huge partof his victimology, which is basically,
how vulnerable are you? How highrisk are you? Is your life,

(10:01):
the people you associate with, anyaddictions something like that, and not having
a home you know, would bea big part of his victimology. Absolutely,
yeah, And you know, andI did say at the top of
this that he was a roofer bytrade and that he did graduate high school
and all of that stuff. Butwho's to say that he wasn't a general
contractor you know, like a tenninety nine, Like, yeah, I'm

(10:22):
a roofer by trade, but Ididn't have any work at the time,
so I didn't have anywhere to stay, Yeah, which could lead to him
not having, you know, ahome, So he was homeless at the
time. You know, you neverknow. It's hard to say. Very
few people are homeless by choice thatare otherwise you know, fully functioning.
You might say, if you havea forty hour a week full time job,

(10:45):
very few people are homeless because it'smore convenient to have a home,
a place to live with you andyour family, or just the same as
the car. It's much more convenientto own a car than walk an hour
and a half. So we don'tknow the circumstances as to why he doesn't
apparently have a home or a car, but it is important to keep in
mind right now, Detective Sergeant RickSpottleson and I probably butchered that. So

(11:11):
that's not a real name, Iknow. I mean it's spelled like spotleson.
Okay. Okay said that there issome security footage of him leaving the
bar that morning, right around onethirty in the morning, but there's not
much else so they weren't really ableto tip pinpoint where he went after that,
like which direction did he go downan alley? Did he get in
a car? They weren't able totell any of that. I want a

(11:33):
nightmare for investigators just trying to lookinto it because there's yeah, there's no
digital trail. I mean maybe asa burner phone they have a prepaid phone
or something like that, right,but there is no GPS obviously because he
doesn't have a car. All thesetypical things the places that you start when
you're investigating potential missing persons cases isthe house and the car and the possessions,
and it sounds like there's not alot that he can offer in that

(11:56):
way. Yeah, which is reallydisheartening too, because you know, just
like as said, like he talkedto her several times a day, and
even earlier in that evening, thatsame evening than he disappeared, he talked
to her, and nothing seemed outof sorts. She had no indication that
anything was going to happen then hewas gonna up and leave, that he
was in any kind of trouble oranything like that. So even with him

(12:18):
talking to somebody just a few hoursbefore his disappearance, and they weren't even
able to say that something seemed off, you know what I mean. Yeah,
and he's not leaving with anybody inthe footage or anything like that that
we know of, not that weknow of now. Again, I can't
say that for certain either, becausethe police did say that they've had a
few leads, but none of themchecked out. So I'm not sure if

(12:41):
one of the leads could have been, hey, he walked out of the
bar with such and such person,but then that led to nowhere because it
was just somebody else leaving at thesame time, I don't know for sure
that very well could have been it. Within days of him going missing,
Lisa was interviewed Lisa's the mom.Lisa was interviewed and the interview was posted
on TikTok that famous fun thing thatwe like so much now, Yeah,

(13:07):
that and the birds Man. Soin that video, she mentions that Randy
walks everywhere, and everyone in thatarea knows exactly who he is because he
walks everywhere. They're all like,Okay, that's Randy. Okay, Randy's
going here, Randy's going there.They just all know him. She also
mentions that there are telephone numbers fromMexico calling for ransom amounts of fifteen hundred

(13:30):
dollars if they want Randy to safelyreturn and they're calling her phone. That's
nuts, yep. And in thevideo you can hear her answer one of
those phone calls and tell them thatshe knows they're scamming her on TV.
Yes, like, I have thevideo, I'll send you the link.
So, the Youngstown Police Department confirmedthat a missing person's report was filed on

(13:52):
May twenty second, twenty twenty one. Now, mind you, he went
missing on the fifteenth. We knowhe's an adult. These things sometimes take
a few days for that to,you know, fully happen. But his
mother, Lisa is very vocal withthe media. She's hopeful that speaking up
will help lead you know, somebodyto her son, at least you know

(14:13):
his remains, because the way she'stalking now, she just feels as though
he's not alive, and we seethat very often. I wonder why thinks
she hasn't said she has a feeling. I think it's a feeling. When
she was interviewed by w kban onJune twenty fourth of last year, twenty

(14:33):
twenty two, she was quoted assaying, it's been a nightmare and emptiness
that can't be filled my first son, my oldest child. Words can't describe
how much I miss him, andhis daughters miss him. She also said
in an interview that she no longerbelieves he is alive, but she didn't
say why. I'm just wondering ifthat could just be her feeling, that
could be her way of coping withwhat she's going through, which is impossible

(14:54):
to do. But I also wonderif police haven't given her some information to
make her think that, or maybeled her in that direction for whatever reason.
I'm thinking so too, and I'lltell you why in a second.
But yeah, his mom also,like I said, she created that Facebook
page. It's called help Bring RandyHome. She wrote, exactly two years

(15:16):
ago today to the hour was thelast I talked to you on the phone.
God knows how bad I wish youwere here. I miss you,
baby so much. I love youeven more. The last two days have
been so hard. No matter whatI do, you're always on my mind.
I would give my last breath tohave you back with your babies and
keV. I will never give uppraying for you now. Police do not

(15:39):
believe that he just kind of left. They were like he was always in
constant contact with his family. Wedon't believe that he would have just up
and left. We believe that there'ssome type of foul play. But they're
not specifying who, what, where, why, nothing, And they're not
saying what these leads have indicated,even though they led to nothing. They

(16:02):
haven't said you know what the leadswere either, which obviously for investigative purposes
I would assume, but it's just, yeah, if there are any stressful
they might be, they may obviouslyknow something. They may also just be
looking at a guy who's always incontact with his family, as they said,
has no reason to go far awayfrom his three daughters who he walks

(16:26):
now and have to go visit.Has this network at least in his way
of people around the neighborhood, sothere's nothing for him outside of this area
of the country, But they're alsolooking at a guy without resources to be
able to effectively run away, youknow, once you have run out of
money, he's got no car,he's got no access to credit, anything
like that that you would need tostart over eventually exactly. And I just

(16:52):
I guess one of the most frustratingthings for me with this case is that
there was not a lot of mediacoverage on this. And we've talked about
this before with victimology and the mediaor lack thereof media coverage for you know,
victims like this. And I'm justwondering if it does have anything to
do with him being homeless, Ifhe in fact was homeless, that definitely

(17:15):
I feel like plays a rule here. And then again, we don't know
other parts of his life, youknow, did he have any type of
drug use in his history? Whyis he homeless? Basically? Why is
he? Yes? Why is hehomeless? Does he have some type of
record, like when he's going tovisit his children, is he going to

(17:37):
the mother's house? Are the childrenwith their mother or not? Like,
I don't know. I feel likethere's so many elements to this that could
play a part in where he wasat this time. In his life.
Yeah, I think the critique ofthe media is accurate just because I mean,
just it's simple to understand. Thenewspaper headline homeless man missing is not
going to get anybody's attention because everybody'sfirst thought is, well, yeah,

(18:00):
I mean that makes sense, he'shomeless, and that anytime somebody goes missing,
we need to explain it in oneway or another just to be able
to function. And that's really hardwith like a I'm trying to think of
a super high profile missing person's case, but you know any or like a

(18:21):
John main A case. We knowwhere she is, but we don't know
who did it. So you haveto come up with a theory in order
to just function mentally or just ignoreit altogether and move on. And when
you see the newspaper headline thirty fiveyear old homeless man missing, your first
thought is drugs, alcohol, something, He's dead somewhere, they'll find him,
something like that. You and Iboth know homeless people. I think

(18:44):
we both have homeless people, sothat, I mean, that's the stereotype
I held until I had that lifeexperience on my my wife's side of her
family. And some of it hasn'tchanged. I mean, some of the
stereotype is correct, but it's itdefinitely rodd your perception of it. I
actually know somebody it does, andit's definitely in my eyes, it's,

(19:06):
you know, we're all humans,like we're humans, Like there are circumstances
and it's case by case and Idon't know. It just brings me back
to the other night we were drivinghome and we saw this man, a
homeless man, sitting on the stoopof a church with his blanket and all
of his belongings, and it justmade me want to cry. And I
was so upset for this guy.And Jason was like, well, he

(19:29):
just wants to be the first onein line tomorrow. I guess they serve
hot food. And it just brokemy heart and I was like, you're
probably not wrong, but also Iwant to go back and give him some
food now because it's like one inthe morning, and I feel bad for
the guy. And he's like,well, yeah, just remember some people
do choose that life. And I, you know, I just kind of
lost it. And I was like, I get what you're saying, but

(19:51):
I don't think that's the case here. Yeah, And I was like,
why would anybody choose that life.And then you know, he went into
the whole thing where some people werelike I don't want to work for the
man and blah blah blah, andI'm like, bro, we're not going
there. That's not what this is. You guys are going to end up
homeless. Life change. Yeah.But then like encounters some people do have
with homeless people that you know,it's all it takes to to just increase

(20:15):
No, I'm not saying this rightto reinforce their perception. I mean,
I guess for a lot of people, I just can't. It breaks my
heart. I every single time Isee a homeless person, I want to
help them, and I don't evencare what the circumstances are. I'm like,
oh my god, you're hungry,hold on, let me go get
you food. And you know,we've done it. I can't even tell
you how many times we've done it, seeing them at an exit ramp or

(20:36):
something and we go to the nearestdrive through, get them food and bring
it back, like we feel betterbecause we're feeding them. You know.
Sometimes we don't have any food onus and we go and get it and
come back and they're gone, andit's like crap, we missearching. I
don't even care if they go buybooze with my ten bucks either, that's
not my wet. We never carrycash exactly. I've noticed that every time

(20:57):
I roll up on an intersection.Yeah, I never have cash anymore.
I try to keep like granola barsand waters and stuff in my car just
in case I can have something that'salso a good thing to have in your
car anyway. Yeah, yeah,but anyway, but I don't know that.
I guess that with this particular case, and with a lot of the
cases that we cover, I justfeel like that's one of the things that

(21:18):
bothers me the most. They're justso many of them are written off before
they're even looked into, and itfrustrates Yeah, definitely, there's no public
pressure to solve that missing persons forsure. But and that's why I don't
have a lot about this one,because there wasn't a lot of coverage.
The most coverage that came from itwas from the mom going and reaching out
to these outlets and TikTok, youknow, like the mom had to do

(21:41):
that. I hate that she hadto do that, but that's the only
way it's going to happen in thiscase. Yeah, that's the only way
we ever would have heard about thiscase. Yeah, thanks corney, appreciate
it. Yeah, thank corney.Yeah. So that's all we know.
There's no there are all we know. There are some tips. I guess
we could call it that the policehaven't specified anything about, right, yep.

(22:03):
And the investigating agency is the YoungstownPolice Department, so we will post
that phone number as well. Youngstown'spretty rough, right, um, I
think, I mean relatively relatively fromwhat I understand. It's not the greatest
area for sure, It's not thatfar from me. So some information that's

(22:23):
come in, which is not nothingbecause this isn't the case. It's all
over the media, so maybe theyare useful tips. And I don't know
what stands out to you about thiscase other than obviously we don't know.
We don't have enough information, butany anything kind of stand out. The
thing that just throws me off isthat the phone calls that are coming into

(22:45):
the mom's phone from the like theMexico phone numbers, like, you know,
are these people who just she saidthat a lot of people in the
town or city knows her son,So is it people who know him,
are just messing with the family becausefifteen hundred dollars, that's like a really
low number first of all. Yeah, but they're also going to ask They're
not going to ask for one hundredthousand dollars because they know they're not going

(23:07):
to get it, right, butfifteen hundred dollars right, So for a
person My thing on that is whendid these calls come while she was interviewed
by TikTok, Like within three daysof him going missing, three or four
days of him going missing, andthe phone call came in while they were
recording her. So one my questionwould be, where are the scammers learning

(23:30):
about about this case? If therewere no possible way for that information to
be out there yet, then it'sa more serious thing. Then it's you
have to look into it. Butshe's posting on Facebook too, right,
she's posting on Facebook. But alsoif everybody was well aware of who he
was in that town, words spreads, Yeah, somebody knows what happened to

(23:52):
him that night. Yeah, SoI'm going with those ninety eight percent or
not legit ransom call oh yeah,And I don't know how many ransom calls
there were to begin with it couldhave been two, could have been three.
But how often have we seen this. It's happened in like four or
five of our cases. Yeah,and they haven't been legit. I don't
think any of them like from akidnapper. And that's one of the things

(24:15):
that stands out to me right awayis his just forget forget the homeless lifestyle
aspect of it, just as genderand age make him very low risk for
an abduction kind of scenario anyway,extremely low risk. Thirty five year old
men don't get abducted. It doesn'thappen. They get caught up in situations
and maybe murdered and buried, butthey're not abducted in the sense of like

(24:38):
if this were a twenty one yearold woman leaving a bar at one thirty
in the morning, it's a wholedifferent case. But thirty five year old
man, he's very low risk.The only other thing I think about is
he's going to have EBT and he'sgonna have cash. He's not gonna have
a bank account. So if he'swalking out of a bar with a pocket

(24:59):
full of hundreds after whatever money hemade that week, that's gonna you know,
he's flashing it. Around the barfor several hours at night, maybe
make him a target for something lateron outside the bar. Well. And
then I also had a question too, because this is just two years ago
and most bars today have cameras inside. So did they not have any cameras

(25:21):
inside this bar that they could lie? I don't know. If all they've
mentioned is the surveillance of him leaving, it's probably a camera inside by the
door or outside, and it's probablyhe was thinking, like right at the
entrance of the door. Yeah,it doesn't sound like if they do have
other cameras that any of the interactionswere interesting to them, or they just
haven't mentioned those interactions, if theysaw any other anything else that happened inside

(25:45):
the bar. And I was wrongabout Youngstown, My bad. It's like
four hours away from me. It'sup near Cleveland. So yeah, all
right, a little bit further thanI thought. But if the mom is
of the belief that he died,then the assumption would be that something happened
to him that night. I wouldthink, Well, and then how many
cases in Ohio if we talked aboutwhere it's a grown man disappearing from a

(26:10):
night out at the bar. Andagain, yeah, yeah, what is
going on in Ohio? Bars,guys, I would not have a good
night. That's your smiley face killedhim telling you, um, it's not
right. This would be one wheretheoretically he could be alive too. I
don't know how that works, becausehe's outside his resource network anywhere outside of

(26:32):
Youngstown from the sounds of things,and he has no means. But he
does possess transient lifestyle anyway to somedegree, and he has a skill that
you can use anywhere. So ifhe were to be okay somewhere else,
he could survive. This isn't likea seven year old girl disappearing. Yeah,
but man, I just can't.I can't not think about the kids,

(26:55):
you know, when it comes tocases like this, like how and
less and less he was in sometype of deep trouble that the only way
to protect his children, he thoughtwas to get out of the picture for
a while. That's the only thingthat I could think, you know,
for somebody to want to leave ontheir own accord when they have three young
children like that. Yeah, Ashe's devoted enough to walk so long to

(27:17):
see that, yeah. Yeah,And he's in constant communication with his mom
and every missing person case, that'salways a theory they're on a beach somewhere.
But my usual response in most casesit works, and it sounds like
this one. They wouldn't do thatto their family, or if they did,
they would find some way to lettheir family know at some point down
the road that they're okay. Exceptfor that one guy who ended up in

(27:40):
New York. That was the guythat rented a car. Yeah, or
he was driving to the airport,he disappeared, yea, and his family
didn't know where he was. Tenyears later, they only found him in
New York because he died. Hedied under a different name, right right,
Yeah, and they identified the bodyas the guy who would run away
from his family. So that doeshappen, I guess. Yeah. And

(28:02):
then Brittany and I covered a caseon her podcast where the guy had lost
his memory and ended up in likeanother country, yeah, right for quite
some time. Yeah, have youseen this guy was from Minneapolis, I
think, but he went off toVietnam and his wife is still campaigning that
he is or was alive for along time in Vietnam and tried to get

(28:26):
the government to go get him.Yeah. There was like there's official declassified
documents of military flyovers where the guyhad written letters using stones like in castaway
or something like that. Oh mygod, And they think they've seen him,
but he never came home. Waitdid he does not want to come
home exactly? I don't know.I don't know. But the wife never

(28:47):
stopped looking for him, and henever sad right, especially said if he's
missing voluntarily, like he goes offto Vietnam and sass nice, I think
I'll stay here. Yeah, Andthen she's just all the while just worried
about him her whole life. Yeah, And she was going all the way
up to like Donald Rumsfeld and peoplein the FBI and CIA, and her
whole life was devoted to finding Well, I mean, there were so there's

(29:11):
so many POW's there and it's notlike they keep paperwork, you know,
the Vietnamese. We're not using quickbooks. Well that's true, so they
who knows, maybe I don't know. Crazy to me how that could happen
even in Ohio. But um,I guess I'm I'm learning my lesson about
saying that so and so is nolonger alive, because every week, it

(29:34):
seems like somebody week pops up thatwent voluntarily missing basically, or a kid
that was abducted. I think Corneymight have sent you want a couple of
weeks ago. I told her shebetter woman found. I think it was
like three years or five years.She sent that one this week. Yeah,
and she was found alive. Soyeah, I don't know. I
have such a hard time relating tothat for a bunch of reasons, but

(29:57):
it does happen. All right.Well, we'll get all the info out
on this. I think for acase like this one, photos would be
good. So the pictures that Heatherhas of him, will post any public
information because this is a new digitalage case, just a couple of years
old, and we'll circulate what isknown about it. And thank you all

(30:18):
for listening. We will talk toyou next week, right, hopefully next
week we will