Vanished in the Smokies: The Disappearances of Trenny Gibson & Dennis Martin

In this episode, we explore two of the most haunting missing persons cases in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.

First, the mysterious disappearance of 16-year-old Trenny Gibson, who vanished without a trace during a school hiking trip in 1976.

Then, we rewind to 1969 and examine the baffling case of 6-year-old Dennis Martin, whose family Father’s Day camping trip became one of the National Park's most extensive and controversial search-and-rescue efforts.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Welcome back to Satisfading. Scott Fuller and Heather Rights back
with you for another couple of cases here this week. Heather,
how are you. I know, it's been a while.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
It's been it's been a while, and there's been a
lot of things happening. We both had deaths in the family.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, we did.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I guess that's just how life goes, right.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
I've been reflect let's start real deep. The very beginning
of the episode. I've been reflecting a lot about that,
and it's strange. I felt a little guilt because this
is our subject matter, which is usually it ends that
way typically, but I haven't reflected on it personally as
much like a head down. But that's human nature. I

(01:02):
think that no one wants to think that they're going
to die. We all know we are, but nobody thinks
about it until like that family member passes away.

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, and then I don't know what it does to you.
But for me, that's my biggest fear in life, and
then spiders is a close second.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Those two things could be related depending on the situation.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Right, So it's terrifying in Ohio anyway, Yes, yeah, no,
you're exactly right. Fuck Ohio. But yeah, it's really scary.
But I really do fall into like this weird spiral
every time I lose a family member, even if I
wasn't that close or it's been a while since I
talked to them, Like for some reason, it really haunts

(01:44):
me for a while and I can't get out of
that funk. So yeah, that's my fault. But it's like,
I have oos a.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Service thing I'm going to for the family member I
lost on Friday, and it's a dreadful thing anyway, you're
not looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
I lost another one.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
No no, no, no, same one. It's just the service
didn't happen. Yeah, my grandma.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Passed you met, you lost them on Friday.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
I'm like, no, no, no, it's just the service memorial
whatever it is, is not until this Friday. It's beout
a month since she passed away. But yeah, a lot
of reflection that causes you to do that. And I
know you had around the same time a similar loss.
So that and work and everything else has kept us busy.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, work is something else. Like now a lot
of people don't know what I do. But with my
position now it's a lot more time consuming. It's not
as mentally draining, because I do love what I do,
but it's mentally taxing, I will say, because there's a
lot of emotion involved in it.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
So yeah, yeah, mine way less so but I like
a busy day. But the problem is, like I've got
it pretty full, and if anything goes wrong or unexpected,
then you're behind, and that's when it gets not as fun.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
That's my every day now. I need to learn to
manage that better.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah. Well, I tell you, AI, you made fun of
me for my scheduling app that I used, but it
saves my life.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
If I add another thing to it, then I'm not
going to be able to keep up at all.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
I understand. That's everybody, though. We're not complaining because a
lot of people are very busy and stressful jobs. It's
I get it.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
It's the balance.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's when you get to the passion projects
like this that you don't have quite as much time for.
But we are back now. This will probably be the
last that we do on our little unofficial series on
the Appalachian Trail and National Park disappearances, at least for
the moment, but we have two. We have two that
we're going to cover. First thing, I want to do

(03:46):
those say hi and thank you too. I think it
was Holly who signed up to be a Patreon supporter,
so thank you, Holly.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
We're trying to get more content.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, I know every time that The problem is every
time we get a new supporter, it's like, well, we
haven't done a Patreon thing in a while.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
But we do really want suggestions. That way, we know
what you want to hear.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, And the one thing I have gotten better about
it if it matters to anybody, is I get the
episodes out on Patreon twenty four hours before the main feed.
So if that does matter to you, then nice you
get that at least. All right, so thanks to Holly, Patreon,
dot com, slash status pending. There is not a whole
lot up there lately, but we've been doing this for,

(04:30):
we decided twenty three years, so there's a lot of
backstuff up there. All right. With that, we'll take a break,
and the first of two disappearances in our National Park
series for this episode is coming up next. I think

(04:51):
I'm going to handle this first one, Heather. This is
the disappearance of Teresa Gibson Trenny Gibson, and what I
I liked it. You picked both of these for today's episode.
And what I liked about both of them is they're old,
and I mean that I like the vintage of it.
Once from the seventies, once from the sixties.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
I do enjoy the older cases too, just because I
feel like they for one, they don't get a lot
of spotlight these days, but for two, it's really interesting
to kind of see how things were done back then.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
It's also more resolved. Neither of these are resolved, which
is why we're covering them, but there's been extra searching done,
or there's been remains that maybe weren't related that were
found or something like that that complete the story a
little bit better. So Trenny Gibson is who we're talking
about today. She was a sixteen year old student at
Beard And High School in Knoxville, Tennessee, and later in

(05:46):
the season, in October October eighth of nineteen seventy six,
she and a group of about forty students went on
a trip to Great Smoky Mountains. What's interesting about this
already is very often missing people. In fact, the number
one safety tip you're given when you go into the
woods is don't go by yourself. Not only is training

(06:08):
not going by yourself, she's going with like a whole.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Class of Right, that's a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
So there are forty students, and you would imagine probably
a couple of teachers on this excursion.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
You would hope, right, they're all high school students, would
hope they would have a few chaperones.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
Did you have a senior trip? Is that a thing?

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah? But we were poor, so I didn't get to go.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
No.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, I didn't get to go to a lot of
things in school.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Yeah that's a bummer. I mean they're never like life
changing experiences, I don't think, but it's fun.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
I think mine was to Washington, DC, maybe if I'm
remembering correctly, But we did. I didn't get to go.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Well, that's more expensive senior trip. We like when we
drove on a bus like half an hour.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Oh lucky. Well you're also like from Colorado, forty years older.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Than inflation wasn't as bad, all right, So set the
scene there, there's a Frennie Gibson and like forty of
her students, and this wasn't a senior trip for she
was sixteen years old. But they hike this Andrew's bald trail,
which poor andrew with their destination being I'm sorry about

(07:15):
this if you're from the area Kuwhai Parking area. But
it used to be known as Klingman's Dome, So I
don't know what the genesis or the transformation of that
name is, or maybe it's known colloquially. Colloquially one way
swinging amiss the second time too, But that's all right,

(07:36):
Klingman's Dome is what I'm going to go with.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Trenny described as a good student, no behavior problems, five
to three, one hundred and fifteen pounds, light brown hair.
Last scene wearing a brown plaid jacket and a blue
and white striped sweater, blue jeans, and blue Adidas shoes.
Most must have been early addition Adidas.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
I was just thinking that those are probably really cool looking.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah. Some reports also note that she may have been
wearing a star, sapphire and diamond ring, which is interesting
for a sixteen year old. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Was it a promise ring?

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'll love a promise ring.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
I don't know that promise rings were things back then.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
They were they were started in the sixties. Really, I
feel like that's true because I watched a movie and
it was like based very lightly on true things, and
it was the sixties, and they had a promise ring
and they explained the meaning of it.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Okay, is feeling the same thing now is back then? Well,
it's not still a thing, right.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
I mean, I've kind of seen it here and there,
but I feel like it means a little bit different
things now. But from that movie it basically said, like,
this is a promise that I will devote myself to you.
We're going study and eventually I want to marry you.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Now that you mentioned it, that does sound like a
very fifties sixties.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, going study. Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
So she may or may not have had this ring
a star set fire and diamond ring. It's a big
promise when you get diamonds on there. Yeah, she had
little outdoor experience, which may have made her a little
bit vulnerable to rugged terrain. But how rugged is it
going to be? Like? You can, as we discussed in
the last episode, you can get in trouble anywhere in

(09:20):
the woods, but this isn't like the Rocky Mountains. This
is the Appalachian Trail. And more importantly, more to the point,
she's with like forty other people.

Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, but you say not as rugged or not that rugged.
I feel like a lot of the Appalachian Trail is
pretty intense, Like there are people who train just to
be able to hike it.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Most of that's the duration of it, though. I think
you're not scaling rock faces, you're not doing anything too crazy.
But if you go off trail at all, it doesn't
matter where you are. You can be in trouble and yeah,
you twist an ankle and no one knows where you
are and all of a sudden, it's a bad day.
And she does not have outdoor experience. This is not
one of her hobbies. The last confirmed sighting of Trenny

(10:04):
was two fifty pm on that day on October eighth
of seventy six. The group was about a half mile
from the parking area, and witnesses said she seemed like
she might have been in a hurry to get back.
One person thought she might have tried to take a
short cut across the terrain, so she might have been
going off trail there, but nobody saw her again as
the group I think was going back. Yeah, they were

(10:28):
going back to the parking area. I don't have enough
information here to answer some of these questions. But if
she was supposedly in a hurry, what for, Because if
they all went together, is what I'm getting at, And
it doesn't matter if you beat the group back to
the bus, you still have to wait there. So I
don't know that that is one eyewitness theory that it

(10:49):
seemed like she was in a hurry for some reason
to get away from the group and back toward the
parking area. We assume the group got back to the
bus at three point thirty, about forty minutes after she
was last seen, and she wasn't there either, So a
couple of students went out to search kind of the
immediate area around the parking area. No sign over there.

(11:11):
Searchers later found tennis shoe tracks marking the size of
her Adidas near the trail itself, heading in a different direction,
that the group had not gone in toward Double Springs Shelter,
that trail abruptly disappeared, or that the footprints abruptly disappeared
about a half mile past the intersection. If you're familiar
with this of Forny Creek and Andrew's Balld Trail, I

(11:32):
am not familiar with the area but that's where she
was last seen. National Park Service began an extensive search
that night. Obviously in October, it's getting darker earlier, but
they started that night anyway. Typically missing report doesn't come
in until the nighttime hours, and when that does happen,
searchers usually collect themselves, gather and like five o'clock, six

(11:57):
o'clock in the morning, first daylight, they're out. Not very
often do they go out in the dead of night
unless there's a reason for them to search. Dogs picked
up twenty cent on Andrew's Bald Trail and the Appalation Trail,
but it went cold near Klingman's Dome Road in Colin's Gap. Again,
that's a local knowledge thing if you're familiar with the area.

(12:19):
But the important thing is this is a big search
for a long time. They searched for ten days, they
got dogs out there, park rangers combing the area, no
sign of her. Apparently, reports start trickling in from around
the area and around the region. And this is, as
we've said many times, very common that once the word
gets out that someone is missing, a description or even

(12:41):
a photograph is distributed and the sightings begin. Someone thought
they saw as far away as Bryson City, North Carolina,
even Newark, New Jersey. None of these are substantiated sightings.
A hospital in Heywood County came forward to say we
think we might have treated her that day, which is

(13:02):
a promising lead, but that turned out to be somebody else.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
So quick question before you go further. So I don't
know if you even have this information or not, but
I'm just curious when they went on this trip. Was
it just supposed to be like a day trip and
then they headed back that afternoon around three thirty when
the bus was there or did anybody stay behind when
these searchers started.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I don't know for sure, but it really sounds like
with that many kids, like a day trip.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
That's what I was thinking, Yeah, like a field trip.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
The search officially paused ten days later, October eighteenth, after
a week and a half of good search efforts. They
had a lot of people searching, but no new evidence.
So we go from nineteen seventy six to the following year.
Following spring, another search is conducted, so there's no sign
of her obviously in the winter months, and they try
again in the spring of seventy seven, and they try

(13:53):
for weeks until early May. Fifty searchers were involved in
that second search, and they're looking in trey and drainages
ridges around the area. Despite this new second search, Superintendent
Boyd Evison, which I think is a park superintendent, said, quote,
with all the efforts expanded on this search, the fact

(14:14):
still remains that there's a possibility she is still in
the park.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Oh my god, that's gut riching. And then for them
to pause it for that long and then restart it.
Is it because a lead or a tip came in
or were they like, okay, well the ground is clear
enough now to kind of search again.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
It's the latter. The first search would have been a
live person search to try to save her. She's obviously
if she's still in the woods, not alive in the spring.
I'm sure there are crazy survival stories that people could
send us, but a sixteen year old who has no
previous experiences. Yeah. Even as the official search concluded, the
case kind of lingered. And between nineteen ninety one and

(14:51):
nineteen ninety four is this A decade and a half later,
law enforcement contacted the Park Service about unidentified remains that
might match her description, but none of these were confirmed,
which doesn't mean they weren't hers, but they couldn't be
confirmed to be hers. So to this day, if you
go and Reddit and troll around some of the outdoorsy

(15:13):
kind of missing people websites or a few of those,
there are theories as to what might have happened. None
of these are too crazy. These are all kind of
the typical standard theories. That you got lost. You know,
this can be unforgiving. Dense terrain, especially off trail, and
without any previous outdoor knowledge, you might have gotten lost.

(15:35):
And then it's you know, if you don't find your
way back, and you have no supplies with you, if
it's supposed to be just a day hike, you could
succumb to exposure, especially in October, and just you know,
didn't make it. There is a theory, as there always is,
about animal attack bears. I don't know what kind of
wildlife is in this area. Bears, probably black bears. I
don't know what else is down there. I do know

(15:55):
from my research and experience, animal attacks do happen fatally,
but they're way rarer than.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
People think, Like shark attacks no, I mean like woods
animals no, no, I know, like the rareness of shark attacks.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Every time I go in the in the ocean, I'm
thinking I'm getting bit by a shark. Everyone is just
like every time I get on an airplane, it's going
to go down.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
But yeah, you like the one that just went down
the other day, It's.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah, it's been Yeah. I'm kind of an aviation safety
amateur historian. I love the examination of airplane crashes, especially
in the States. Yeah. But because of that, though, it's weird,
is I know, like, I know the stats on animal attacks,
I know the stats on airline crashes, but you still
think it well, of course, so animal attack is possible.

(16:45):
But the problem with a lot of animal attack theories
I found is you're way more likely to find remains
if there are if there's an animal attack, I think.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Explain why you think that, though, because is they're not
going to eat at all unless they're a pig most likely.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Well, I mean I say that, and the reason I'm
hesitating is the bones get scavenger scattered kind of too.
If you die in the woods, it's probably because of
a fall or you get lost. And if you got lost,
people even kids can travel a lot further from a

(17:25):
search area than you think they can because you're walking
for your life. You have no other option, so you
can go a lot further than sometimes the search area allows.
For an animal attack, You're more likely to be closer,
I think, to where people think you are.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
If that makes sense, Yeah, it actually does.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
And there's a theory of abduction. Witness reports described Trenny
as hurrying that day. Remember so did she was she
going to meet someone back at the parking lot? Is
there a plan in place before, you know, for the
end of the hike. Reports of an older man seen
with a young girl resembling Trenny all the way in
New Jersey, though, added a layer to that theory. But

(18:07):
she has to have run away with him, maybe willingly,
or maybe she's subducted and driven there or whatever. But
that every time I say it doesn't happen, you know,
we find a story of it happening. But uh, it's
it could be. You can't rule it out, that's the problem.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
You can't. But oh man, that that just opens up
a whole nother door of questions, Like, for one, this
is in the seventies, So how easy is it to
get someone to meet you there unless it's planned prior
to leaving?

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Good point. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Secondly, if it was like of her own volition, then
do we know obviously we don't from this, but you know,
did she have stuff going on with her family where
she felt like she needed to run away and leave?

Speaker 1 (18:50):
You know, do teenagers run away all the time? They
didn't so back then, just like they do today. I'd
bet they even do it less so today, or maybe
they're just easier to track. The only hesitation I have
with this theory, And you're right, there's no Facebook, there's
no online child predator danger in the seventies. But what's

(19:11):
up with a diamond ring?

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Yeah? Who gave that to it?

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Exactly like this, a sixteen year old boy is not
going to probably give that to her. You know, where's
that coming from?

Speaker 2 (19:22):
On his what like ice cream shop salary? No doubt
it exactly.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
So I don't know, but that's kind of where it's
it's at where the speculation is online. There's some interesting
I remember some some Reddit contributors to this case who
are more familiar with the area, and they're advocating more
for the terrain theory, like it definitely could happen, but
you can't rule out the you never roll out animal attack.

(19:47):
It's just way less likely than people think. And the
one people want to go to when they're speculating online,
especially so many years later, is abduction, because in the
years since, there's been all these crazy, rare but crazy
reduction stories of teenagers.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, and stories where like fifty sixty year old men
are like, yeah, I bounced, you know, forty five years
ago and changed my name, but I'm still alive. You know,
it's crazy, freaky, man.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
I just sent you the one what was the teenagers
that went missing in Ohio were found in like Iceland
or something.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
It's send me that. I never read the whole thing.
I didn't your apologies.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
It does happen. It's just it doesn't happen, you know.
It's the rarest thing, but obviously everything happens. It is
worth noting that four hundred people go missing in Tennessee
every year. That stat though, it's kind of like the
national stat of two million kids go missing or something
like that. Ninety nine percent of them are found, but
they do go missing for a period of time. If

(20:48):
you have any information about the case, the investigated branch
in the National Park Service has a phone number. We'll
put in the show notes the nineteen seventies disappearance of
Trenny Gibson. Any other thoughts.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I mean, if anybody from that area is familiar with
that case or has additional information, we would love to
hear it, because obviously it doesn't sound like a lot here,
but it'd be cool to know, like who she was
more as a person before that too.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
This is one where, yeah, I'd like to hear the
local knowledge theories on this, like, yes, there's gonna be water, Yes,
pig farm is going to be in there under you know,
she's under a supermarket that was being built. But I
don't know. It just seems like that might be one
where the story that gets passed down by generations might

(21:38):
be more helpful than usually.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
All Right, Heather's got the case of Dennis Martin coming
up right after this. All right, this, we're gonna shift
gears a little bit with this one because it is vintage.
It's back to the sixties. We're gonna stay kind of
back in that time period. But this is a younger kid.
So whereas Trannie Gibson was sixteen, Dennis Martin was.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Younger, very much younger. So it's one of the oldest
and most haunting missing person's cases in East Tennessee too,
which I found kind of interesting. Honestly. It's the story
of Dennis Lloyd Martin. He was a six year old
boy who vanished more than fifty five years ago in
the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. So his case has

(22:28):
remained unsolved for decades, and his disappearance has left investigators,
his family, and countless others with questions that honestly may
never be answered. I mean, with this much time passed,
very common. Yeah, let's kind of start with who Dennis
was and what happened on that June day in nineteen
sixty nine. So he was born on June twentieth, nineteen

(22:50):
sixty two. In nineteen sixty nine, just six days shy
of his seventh birthday, he went on a family camping
trip for Father's Day weekend. This was something that his
family did. It was a cherish tradition. It was him,
his father, his grandfather, and his nine year old brother, which, honestly,
I think that's really sweet.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
I really just.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Got goose bumps thinking about that. How cute that is.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
It is. This kind of hits home because I like
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
I could say, yeah, but you go by yourself.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
I do. I've gone with both my kids, But I
like the idea of just the males in the family,
you know, going out for Father's Day.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, I think that's really sweet. So on the evening
of June thirteenth, the Martin family camped in a shelter
cabin at the west end of Spence Field, which is
more of a scenic area along the Appalachian Trail. And this,
you know, for us up here, we don't really know
what it looks like down there, so hopefully this gives
you know, folks familiar with the area kind of like

(23:50):
a visual But it is a huge open space in
the area. There's you know, it's surrounded by higher terrain
and it was once used by settlers as a great
field for sheep and cattle, which is really interesting to me.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
I did look at it on like you know, Google
Earth or whatever, but I think that descriptor is going
to hit home for most people. Like picture kind of
a basin with woods surrounding it. But this area where
they're hanging out at this moment is like wide open
where you could graze a whole bunch of.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Livestock, and the way you know that is described like
I can envision it in my mind, like it's just
this huge, open, beautiful space. I don't know, it just
seems awesome.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, but it is an open space. So yeah, it's
like out of like some Western movie, you know, some
simetier movie.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
That's what I'm thinking. Exactly, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
But yeah, so that's where they were hanging out. But
what's important to think about here, I think is it's
not in the middle of the woods. It's not on
a mountain. This is an open excuse me, an open area.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
Yeah. And that day too, conditions were ideal, so they
had clear skies, it was sunny, it was warm, it
wasn't too hot, so it was very comfortable to kind
of be out and literally just lounge around in this giant,
open area of nature. Honestly. So the next afternoon, around
four thirty pm, Dennis was playing with his brother and
a few other children near Anthony Creek trailhead, and the

(25:13):
kids had a plan to sneak up in surprise their
you know, the adults, the dads, the grandpa's things like that,
but Dennis split off from the group. He was last
seen wearing a red T shirt, green shorts and low
cut Oxford shoes, and I think, honestly, it was more
of a he was playing a game, you know, the
way it sounds like, he wasn't thinking I'm going to

(25:35):
get lost. He wasn't thinking I'm going to run away.
They were all just goofing off and playing around, and
he probably thought, Oh, I'm going to sneak up on
him real good, you know.

Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah, And as a parent, you're aware of this game,
you know, you're kind of aware, but it's amazing how
quick it happens. And every parent's had that grocery store
or whatever it is where you turn around your kid's
not there. That's kind of what this was like. It
wasn't He's going to go off and go fishing, and
after two hours, it's weird, he's not back. This was

(26:06):
hide and seek. You turn around, he's gone.

Speaker 2 (26:08):
Yeah, And you know, I'm just gonna kind of share this.
It just reminded me of something happened when I was little.
I was eight, eight or nine, and my youngest sister
was just a baby. She had just started walking at
the time, and we lived in an apartment complex where
my parents were cleaning out our van at the time.

(26:29):
Just kind of doing whatever on a Saturday, you know,
and there was a huge lake behind our apartments while
all of us kids were outside playing, and all of
a sudden, I hear my mom scream for my little sister,
couldn't find her. Everybody's searching the lake, searching everywhere. Finally
come back around the front of the apartment apartment building
and my little sister was sitting inside the van looking

(26:51):
out the window, laughing at us. So like just that fast,
they were cleaning the van, but somehow she climbed up
there and they didn't even see it. Yeah, and it
was terrifying, and it only happened like it went on
for what three minutes or something, and everybody was scared.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
It's really scared, like from say three two about you
worry less when they're eight nine stuff to watch them, obviously,
but they're not going to do something crazy stupid, hopefully.
And yeah, it takes like what thirty seconds, and.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
It's so fast.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Adults are not thinking about the same things that the
kids are gatherings and you know, you're talking to people
and it's it just like that. Yeah, so that's kind
of what happened here.

Speaker 2 (27:35):
It sounds like no that's exactly what it sounds like,
because it seemed like the adults were watching the kids.
They were watching them play this game, and it only
takes a second, like they probably look down or talked
to each other, turn their head for just a split
second he disappeared.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
And you're imagining this big open field, so you're not
even worried about it, because there's no trees to hide behind.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Even exactly, and you would see if somebody walked up
on your kid, you would think so, oh yeah, yeah,
so scary. So Dennis's father said that he started looking
for a son within minutes of realizing that he wasn't
with the other kids. So they were keeping a pretty
close eye on all the kids, and despite his immediate efforts,
Dennis was gone completely without a trace. They had no

(28:14):
idea where he was.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's wild.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah, And his father was even quoted because they they
were they remained very close to the search efforts, and
his father was quoted as saying, it wasn't more than
a minute that they were out of our sight. That's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Mm hmm. Happens that fast. Yeah, so I think we'll
get to it. But obviously we're all thinking got to
look at the dad too.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh well, to be fair, I never actually thought that
during the entire time I researched this one. No.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I think anytime a parent reports their kid missing, I
think that it's I ever true.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
But I don't think I thought about that, just because
of the situation leading up to it, that there were
so many people around. I feel like in my head
I was thinking somebody else would have said that about
him first, sure before I thought of it.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, I don't know, No, that's true. They're with other people,
not just family members.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
Yeah, like other people in the park.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah, it sounds like people they ran into. You have
kids the same age.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, but you know, they did quickly notify park rangers
and the search for Dennis began that very evening. Terry Chilcots,
he was a seasonal naturalist at the time, and his
wife they both joined that search effort, as did rangers
and volunteers. This point on Saturday night, conditions in the
area deteriorated pretty quickly too, so they started getting heavy rainstorms,

(29:34):
which really made it difficult for those initial search efforts.
And You've talked about this so many times about how
rains can affect search efforts when especially when dealing with
people who go missing outside.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Yeah, it's just for obvious reasons of getting the searchers
where they need to be. It changes the behavior of
the person you're searching for too, and it can hamper
some other things like dogs, depending on the dog. But
it's not good obviously if you're looking for someone. You
want it to be warm enough where they're not going

(30:08):
to be a hypothermic. You want it to be sunny,
no clouds in the sky. And that's it sounds like
what the day before and this day earlier was. But
then that night as they start searching, two and a
half inches of rain is quite a bit of rain.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
That's a lot, and pretty rapidly.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
It sounds like, yeah, you can't search you like, if
all that's coming in say an hour or two hour period,
it's unsearchable. You can't be out, you know, and effectively
do anything in that kind of rain. Yeah, but you
noted the tracks that they're looking for too, so there
are other things of it.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah, So it did you know potentially or you know,
it would have wiped away those potential tracks that he
would have left behind. So it's like, where do we
even look at this point it's an open field, but
now we have really nothing to go on. By June fifteenth,
the search had escalated. Teams of Boy Scouts, rescues squads,

(31:00):
park rangers, and volunteers combed the area. The Tennessee Air
National Guard deployed helicopters to kind of help with the
search as well. But despite all of that, no trace
of him was found, which is really disheartening. Like, I
can't even imagine being the parent in this.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh got And yeah, I mean the only solace is
that you have so many people trying to help find
your kid, which is what you want. You want the
world to stop and every resource be focused on your
missing kid. But helicopter searches in the sixties weren't that common.
So they even have aerial searches going.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Out, and honestly, as you know, we go on with
this episode, like you see more and more people joining
this search, which is just unheard of to me. Like,
I feel like We've covered a lot of cases with
searches and huge search areas and lots of volunteers, But
with all of the help that they got on this
case and for how long they got it, I am

(31:56):
so shocked. That he wasn't found.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, not even alive, you know, No, there's no trace
of them ever in fifty five years.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, And the rain did continue to kind of mess
with things. So it was on and off for the
next few days, messing with the search efforts. Helicopters attempting
to conduct aerial searches were grounded during that It was
just a whole mess, honestly, and by June nineteenth, more
than six hundred and ninety searchers were involved, including Special

(32:26):
Forces troops from Fort Bragg, and then the operation continued
to grow, with over fourteen hundred people joining the search
at its peak.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I can't think of a larger search effort.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
No, I can't. I was like, is this wrong? Is
this a tan say?

Speaker 1 (32:39):
This is a small town that is searching for kid.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
And you know, there's dense terrain, as you talked about
at the top of this episode, unpredictable weather, the sheer
vastness of the Smokies, all of those things together made
that search incredibly challenging for everyone involved, and you know,
the days turned into weeks. Theories about this disappearance began
to circulate. The most widely accepted theory is that Dennis

(33:05):
became lost and succumbed to the elements, which fair. I mean,
there was a lot of rain, and he's six without
without shelter.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
And even in the summer. We've talked about people think
hypothermia is like below zero, but if it's body temperature
leaving your body, so it can be sixty degrees and
if you're out there long enough you can become hypothermic.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
That's really scary. And another theory suggests that Dennis may
have been attacked and carried off by a wild animal.
I know you kind of talked about that in Trenny's case,
but they're thinking that it could have even been a
bear or a feral pig.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
The pig theory is interesting, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, and it's you know, obviously it's plausible anything is,
but there's no evidence to that, such as clothing or remains.
You kind of talked about that as well, but nothing
was ever found to support that theory or really any
theory that he was there.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
Honestly, and with bears, that becomes more likely later in
the year, like in June. You don't want to scare
one and you don't want to come up against Mama bear.
Most of those attacks happen right in the spring or
toward the fall, before or after hibernation, at least around
here they do.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
Well, that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
This is middle of summer, so it's still possible. But
bears usually don't want to mess with you unless you're
threatening them. And it's hard to imagine the six year
old and threatening a bear.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah. I don't think they're going to do much threatening
the pig.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I can't help you with. I have no idea, like
I know there are I know they can be violent,
especially feral pigs, and if an animal's hungry enough, it's
gonna try to eat you, But I know nothing about that.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Are they talking about? And I may sound ignorant when
I asked this, and I'm sorry, but is that the
same thing a feral pig? Is that the same thing
as a bore?

Speaker 1 (34:55):
And I'm thinking of you it's not a commercial, domestic
kind of pig? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Right, Okay, Well, I mean I guess that's possible.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
Yeah, I'm sure it's happened before. Wouldn't be a theory?

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah? Well, the third theory is probably the most chilling
if you think about it, and they it's that Dennis
was abducted. We kind of hear about this with every
missing person's case. On that same afternoon that Dennis disappeared,
a tourist named Harold Key reported hearing quote a sickening
scream end quote, and also stated that they saw a

(35:30):
rough looking man carrying something over his shoulder near the trail.
This sighting occurred about five miles from where Dennis was
last seen. However, the distance in rough terrain made it
difficult to connect the two events conclusively. But at the
same time, you mentioned earlier that when you're lost, you're
walking for your life. So who knows, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
But I believe one hundred percent a six year old.
In fact, recently I talked to a woman who went
missing here as a kid, and she had gone a
good three miles and she was about six, And they
just don't search that far radius, especially for kids a

(36:13):
because you have to cover all this ground and you
want to do it thoroughly. But it's just hard to
imagine when there's ridges involved in you know, inclining terrain,
that a six year old can do that. But they can,
they can absolutely cover that ground.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
I feel like, and I may be part of the
minority here, but I feel like a six year old
would be more equipped athletically and like energy wise, like
to be able to do that for sure. Yeah, Like
I feel like they they're kids. They want to climb
on things, they want to explore. Like, I feel like
they would have more energy and more ability to.

Speaker 1 (36:46):
Kind of they totally do and the only thing that
slows them down is fear, food or injury eventually, Yeah,
food too. It's also interesting hear the rain you know
that night. Yeah, he's only got it sounds like from
four I'm not sure when it started raining, but from
four thirty a couple of hours maybe to get where
he's going, but he's not going anywhere, or when it's

(37:06):
raining like two inches in a couple.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
Hours, Oh my gosh. No, he's probably trying to find
some type of cover.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
But a kid can't go that far one hundred percent
now for this scream and this guy, Yeah, definitely worth
looking into. But the other thing, the thing about the
Appalation Trail, because it's so long, it's necessitates the transitory
lifestyle because you're literally walking through like eight states. If
you do the whole thing, Yeah, so you'll see a
lot of you know, transient looking people who aren't your

(37:36):
typical homeless people. They're just hikers that want to do
a long range on the Appalation trail. So seeing a
scary looking guy on the Appalation trail is not necessarily abnormal,
like it would be if you saw that guy sitting
in a school parking lot.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
Oh, one hundred percent. Despite extensive efforts, the search for
Dennis scaled down on June twenty, ninth, sixty nine, and
by that time, searchers had covered over fifty six square
miles with intensive searches in a twelve point five square
mile radius around Spence Field, which is goods last scene.
It's a huge I was like, I've never seen this,

(38:14):
this is wild, six year.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Old twelve miles that's yeah, I'd say they covered it.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
Yeah. The Martin family even offered a five thousand dollars
reward for information, equivalent to over forty one thousand dollars today,
but no significant leads emerged from that, which, Jesus, I
bet a lot of people were calling in though.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
Oh yeah, I mean there's you know, always always theories
when there's money involved.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Yeah. So eventually more than fourteen hundred people were involved
in the search for Dennis, and it officially ended on
September thirteenth, nineteen sixty nine, after more than two months
of searching wild to.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
Me, I mean, that's how that's this if I'm missing,
this is what I want this exactly.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
I think everyone wants that. There's not enough resources, which
they made it work for this, But I've.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Always said that no matter how good and search and
rescue people disagree, mostly because of their track record, like
they usually find who they're looking for dead or alive,
usually alive and injured or something. But I really believe
you can't one hundred percent search any area, especially that large,
but most efforts aren't that extensive. So they're doing as

(39:26):
well as they could, talking my way through wondering is
he there or not?

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Basically yeah, And that's that's really sad too if you
think about it, because if he's not even there and
they're spending all of this time, energy resources focusing in
this one area, but yet and now he's what seven
eight states away potentially if he was abducted, like they're
getting so far away, you're never going to find him.
You're never going to figure out what happened to him.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
That's where you need a clue, like you need some
kind of tell that he was abducted, because it's really rare.
It's much more likely that he just got lost and
this happens a lot in the national parks. They find
him in a couple hours. Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
It's interesting. I'll ask my kids because in school here
they learn safety tips. But it would seem smart to me,

(40:11):
like natural elements aside stranger danger. Do they tell kids
if you're being taken by a stranger to drop stuff
or I can't think of what else you would do.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
I mean I would be interested to know that too,
But I know that you know, when they talk about
women and self defense, they tell you to dig your
fingernails into their skin to get DNA. Yeah, like peep poop,
Like do all this stuff? Yell fire instead of rape
because people will come running. Like there's a whole list

(40:41):
of things that women can do to try to protect
themselves or try to narrow down the person who did
something to them. But I don't know what they.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
If you're in the middle of the woods, you know, right,
obviously fight like hell, but.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
There's a kid, but at six years old, that's going
to be hard.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Yeah, I mean, no against a man or even a
yeah adult, it's yes, but there is a case here.
My first season Truth season was Amy Robechtel, and they
found this pen that's like two miles away from where
it makes any sense that she would have been. And

(41:16):
I've always wondered, like, as she's being taken, did she
somehow manage to get that pen out at the window
to maybe be found. I don't know if that's taught.
Like in Survivalist, there's a lot more attention paid on
how to survive in the woods than what happens if
someone's trying to take you.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
I think we definitely need classes or instruction or something
along those lines.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
And now it's all different with cell phones and your
watches and cars have basically black boxes on them, and it's.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
A lot easier now and you'll find my phone, find
my friends, you know all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, So it did officially end on September thirteen, nineteen
sixty nine. Like I said, more than two months of searching.
It would actually become one of the most expensive and
infamous searches for a missing person in the America's National
park system. So nearly seventy thousand dollars was reportedly spent
in the search effort, which is equivalent to six hundred

(42:11):
and twenty thousand dollars today.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
That's insane, Like that's way more than the budget for
any whole agency I would think in a year to
do this.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Oh my gosh. Yeah. So Dennis's father became increasingly frustrated
with law enforcement, who he thought lacked interest in his
son's disappearance. Which I get it, you're really upset about
your son and not being found and stuff, but like,
my goodness, did you see how much they did.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Well his thing? I think after the initial search, so
this is all done September sixty nine, Like you said,
I think where he's coming from is after that they
seem to lose interest. And the FBI would come back
and say, we just don't have anything, like there's no informa,
there's no lead, tryst to follow. So happy to do it,
but you know, give us something.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Look, yeah, I see. I mean his family never gave
up hope, which honestly I wouldn't either if that was
my kid. And even after a year, but the family's
father day Father's Day hiking trip into the Smokies never
happened again after that, and I couldn't imagine that it
would like that would seriously ruin it.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
That's not fun.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
You go there, trip? Oh cool, my kid went missing
here and I still don't know where he is.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah, I'm never going in the woods ever again. I'm
not I'm probably not leaving my house again.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
I was just gonna say that I would never step
foot outside my house again. The family claims to have
printed at least ten thousand flyers to distribute in towns
around the area and around the park. Now. I cannot
remember where they were from, like if they were from
the Tennessee or where they were actually from, but they
posted those flyers all around the park and all around

(43:46):
the areas surrounding it.

Speaker 1 (43:47):
So it's a good idea.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, yeah, it makes me think that they weren't from
that area, so they were just trying to get locals
or anyone close to that area to kind of keep
an eye out, which makes sense.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Well, even if they were, here's what my kid looks like,
you know, yeah, just in case, did you see anything
on that day? Did you see you know, somebody with them? Whatever?

Speaker 2 (44:08):
And it's just crazy too to think about that. This
is such a touristy area too. So like, yeah, can
you imagine how many people are coming in and out
of there at all times? Like that's such a good
idea to post flyers there. But at the same time,
like I wouldn't be very confident that anybody would, no,
but it's a.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Good reminder, especially if you live in an area like this,
especially but anywhere, even like in your area metropolitan area,
if you see something that's weird, that's not quite right,
and it doesn't present its meaning to you right away,
like this could be nothing, but do something, you know,

(44:48):
tell somebody, or write down any pertinent information, like a time,
even an exact time, would be helpful. In so many
of our cases, you'd never know, like it's probably nothing,
but especially in wilderness areas, just be aware of that's
a little weird, you know.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, And I maybe just judgmental as fuck or paranoid
as hell. I don't know. But like my entire life,
even before I started doing like podcasting stuff about it,
I would get weird feelings from people, or I would
see something and I would be like, that seems odd.
I feel like I should notate something about this, And
I would like write it in my phone or write
it on a piece of paper just in case something

(45:26):
weird came up about it, I could be like, Okay,
well at this time, this crazy motherfucker was doing this
thing when I saw it, So I.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Had a tangent for just a second. At my office
parking lot, it's kind of it's in town, but it's
surrounded by kind of like a field right next to
a college, and the parking area itself is only I
don't know, ten cars for our building. And I walked
out of work about a month ago and park next

(45:54):
to my car was a kind of suv and the
driver's side door handle was hanging off and the car
was running okay. So initially I was like, they didn't
do anything, And then I thought, if someone had broken
into his car and stolen it and dumped it and

(46:15):
left the motor running or whatever, it's probably worth knowing.
So I actually went back inside the building. We work
with a bunch of different companies. We actually run a
co working space, so you can rent office space from us,
and I asked around, like, do you know whose car
this is? And eventually we figured out it was someone

(46:36):
who belonged there, and it was their car and their
door handle was just broken. But I said later, like
I went home and told my wife, like, I think
my coworker think I'm nuts because this could be a
stolen car, but it really could have been like one
or the other. The door handle broken, even if it's
not running fine. Yeah, but both those things together, I

(46:57):
was like, I wonder if this was stolen, like minutes
to go from somewhere.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Right, and then if you would have reported that, you know,
had you not found the person that belonged to you
would have reported that, they would have had that timeline
as to when that car may have appeared, like that
would have helped everything.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Well, yeah, I've had stuff like that, And like there's
one day I didn't used to lock my car because
there's nothing to steal in it, and I parked on
the street and I opened my door one day and
I find the wallet of some woman two hundred miles
away on my driver's seat.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Okay, because you stole it. I'm just telling you.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
So I actually ended up like calling her and I
did not steal your stuff. But I have your credit
cards and I have your whole wallet. It's it's I
don't know. Just be aware of stuff, don't go don't
be nosy. About it and obnoxious and causing rumors on
Facebook or whatever. But just yeah, be observant, be aware.

(47:49):
I think more people in today's society. We're so insular
now that you kind of just keep your head down
and do your thing.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Which great for you, honestly, but we also need people
to be alert and stay on top of shit.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, just so you never know, especially in the woods though.
That's why I brought it up.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah. So years later, a gensng hunter claimed to have
found skeletonal wow, sorry gains the yes, what is that like?
The roots? Okay, so this person who found the skeleton
remains of a small child in the Tremont area was
scared that they would get in trouble legally, so they

(48:30):
didn't even report it until nineteen eighty five. Jeez, it's
like a whole thing I forget what they call. I
will look it up and you can add it to
the notes of the section. But in the world, it's
like a whole thing.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Endangered or I missed what you said.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
It's I don't know, toxic, hallucinogenic. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
I thought it was healthy.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, but I don't think you're allowed to like go
and get.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
It hold on, there was like five years that people
were putting that in everything.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah. Yeah, so it's it's known for containing jensenosides. I
don't know. I don't fucking know. All I know it
does a lot of things. It's supposed to help with stress,
immune system, blood, sugar, cancer, all that good stuff, but
it also has side effects. Well, okay, I don't remember
why it's a lead.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Why is Jin Singing Illegal Status Spending podcast at gmail
dot com?

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yes, please, because I can't remember the name of the show.
But it's these freaking older guys who are like just
going through the woods and they're trying to get all
this gin sing and like it's a thing, I promise.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Okay, But I used.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
To watch the shows on History. No, but similar to that.
It was on the History Channel. Okay, okay, okay, we'll
come back to that later, guys. But they found nothing
with that lead, probably because he reported so freakingly. But
then in twenty twenty three, the FBI released Dennis Martin's
case file, which totaled one hundred and thirty three pages.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
So I saw it.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Do you read it all? Ye? Yeah, I read a
lot of it.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
I scanned it, and much of our information for this
episode came from that, so all the good stuff came
from that. But I love having that full report because
unless you make a FOYA, you don't get it usually.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, it was really cool to like just see how
things were written out in that time. And I don't know,
I just really I geeked over it.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
There's also they don't do this anymore, but like media coverage.
They would have newspaper clippings in the case file of it,
which is sometimes they do if they're building a case.
But yeah, it was it was interesting to see how
that was done.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Even with all of that search efforts, all of the
stuff that we're telling you guys, his name is still
on the National Missing and an Unidentified Person's System list,
so it's just a reminder to us all that he's
an unsolved case, Like we don't know what happened to him.
There's nobody, we don't have any leads as to where
he may have gone. It honestly remains one of the

(50:57):
greatest mysteries of the Smokies. His case has influenced search
and rescue protocols, highlighted the importance of preparation and awareness
in the national parks and it's honestly, obviously, it's really
really sad, but it does kind of remind you of
the fragility of life and unpredictability of nature, which Scott
emphasizes so much in this podcast.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
It's super you get in trouble mountains and water. Don't
mess around with mountains and water. Yeah, I'd be interested
what those changes to search and rescue protocols were as
a results in this case. I didn't love to do it,
but that just implies there was something that was done
here that's now done differently.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
Yeah, and hopefully for the better.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Yeah. Well, I'm sure I just don't know what that was.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
I don't know, so, I mean, obviously, as we close
out this episode, we really encourage you guys to reflect
on his story, the countless others who are still missing
that we talk about on here. If you're hiking or
visiting national parks, make sure you're prepared, you stay vigilant.
As we ask in every episode, if you have any
in about his case, no matter how small you might
think it is, share it, come forward, tell somebody, because

(52:05):
it may be the exact thing that they need.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
You never know, you know, probably not in our cases
today of forty and fifty year old case. You never know,
you never know it could be, but you don't be
afraid to go out in the woods and have fun
and recreate. Just you know, again, be careful. There was
a lander search and rescue guy and it's one of
the best in the world that we have here. He

(52:29):
just died in an avalanche skiing like recreationally. And if
anyone is going to get you know, if anyone's going
to be safe out there, it's theoretically this guy. So
just be careful and respect what is around you. Is
the best I can probably say it, but don't be
scared to do it either.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
I do have a little bit of an answer for you.
So it's a yes, it's illegal to harvest because it's
an endangered species, so it's protected by the Convention on
International Trade of Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Oh but that's a party group that convention every year.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Is wild it kills the plant, So digging up the
root of a Gensen plant kills it completely. So that's
not great.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Do these things reproduce like panda bears or something like,
They're only able to reproduce for two and a half days.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Out of the year, so I don't know. But if
you do pick it, it does prevent reproduction. So harvesting
the young plants prevents them from actually producing the seeds,
which seems like common sense, but I don't know. And
it is protected because it is. The population of wild
gencing is endangered.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
So it's not because of its its effects as much.
It's just because of the plant, correct, All right, gotcha?
Well you'll learn something every day you're welcome. I wouldn't
if I stepped, if I tripped and fell in a
pile of gensing, I wouldn't know what it was.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
Well, I mean, now you do. I know you've seen it.
Really it looks weird.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
I've definitely heard of it because there was that the craze,
you know, the health craze over five years was gin
sing infused toothpaste or whatever. They put it in everything
for a while. I haven't seen that in a while,
probably because it's endangered.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
It honestly just looks like a weird little poop with
a root like I don't know, Like you'll just have
to look up images yourself.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
All right, let me let me do this. I'm gonna
try and find a better descriptor than that. Sorry gin
sing plant for sale is what comes up first? Oh okay,
the root looks like ginger to me.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yes, that's what it looks like. Yes, yes, okay ginger poop?

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Okay? And the plant, yeah, the plant? Do they all
have those red berries? I guess in the.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Middle, I think, so, okay, that's how you know where
they are, how you can spottle my.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Guess, gotcha. Well there you go foliage and fauna with
Scott and Heather. But those are our cases for today.
Hopefully you enjoyed those. I love stories like that. They
are frustrating because there's just not as much information as
we're used to in a missing person's case because they're
away from civilization and there's no cell phones back then
and all that. But the idea of the mystery of

(55:25):
going out into the woods and disappearing has always appealed
to me.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Yeah, well, if you want to go missing in the woods,
be my guest. I'm not going.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
There are days I would love to, but probably should not.
A good idea, all right, Again, thanks to our Patreon supporters,
and Heather's got some kind of idea that we're going
to chat about for Patreon content, so please hang with
us there. You do get early access and yeah, we
will be back next time with another case by four