Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stories of Special Forces Operators Podcast. Listen to
some of the bravest and toughest people on the planet
share their stories. Sit back and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back everyone. Well, today we have a great guest
by His name is Greg cocher co k e R.
He's a retired US Army CW four. Let's been a
little bit more about him. Greg flew the AH six
Little Bird attack helicopters with one hundred and sixtieth Special
Operations Aviation Regiment Airborne. As a senior lead instructor pilot.
(00:47):
Cocher Le logged over seven thousand hours of accident free flying,
more than six thousand hours flying under night vision goggles,
and a staggering fifteen hundred hours of combat time. If
you're a pilot yourself, you can appreciate it. Spanning a
thirty year military career and eleven combat tours from two
thousand and two two thousand and one in two thousand
(01:08):
and seven, so we can say he was definitely not bored.
But we're gonna also be talking about his book today.
The book is called Death Waits in the Dark. You
can find more about it a Deathweights in the Dark
dot com. So go check it out where we get started. Folks,
we should have shared subscribe, hit that like button. You know,
we like it and we truly appreciate it. That's not
waste any more time and get to our guest, Greg Cocher.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Welcome, sir, Hey Doc, thanks for having me. It's an
honor to be on here with you today. And yeah,
I look forward to speaking with you. And you know,
just educating people's that's the primary reason why I wrote
the book, and you know, just to let people understand
know what we're doing, what we've been doing, and what
(01:54):
we will continue to do for many many years to come.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Let's start off with this if we can. Greg, tell
us a little bit about what motivated you to get
into the military.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Oh goodness, probably it was probably a good Texas judge,
but that's another story for another time. Yeah, my father
was in the military, and you know, as a young child,
(02:25):
grew up around aviation and aircraft and as a child
of the sixties, you know, watching the Vietnam War on
TV for many many years. But I always I always
wanted to fly. I just had an infatuation with flight.
I of course, again watching the helicopter war in Vietnam.
(02:48):
I just I loved helicopters. So my goal was, or
my in state, was to go into the military. And
I had talked to the Navy and the Marines and
the Air Force. I hadn't finished my degree at the time,
and the Army has their warrant acer program, so they're
(03:08):
you know, one of their marketing or selling points for
the Army was high school to flight school. I actually
had two warn Offscar candidates in my flight class that
were eighteen years old. I just graduated. They were at
Fort Ruger learning to fly helicopters, and actually both of
them went on to leave great careers and both of
(03:32):
them were attack guys. Yeah, over twenty years, they served
multiple combat tours. Yeah, when we we'd go off to
do whatever we were going to do that weekend, they
were they had to hang out because they were only eighteen,
they couldn't drink beers, so they'd writers Kate wards. You know,
That's that's what eighteen year olds from Northwest too, I guess. So, yeah,
(03:58):
that was primarily I just I come from long line
of warriors, and I know that you know, that was
God's path for me.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Let me ask you this, and I don't mean to
bring up your age, but were you able to get
into Vietnam or were you already older? I mean you
were young, too young still to get in. I'm not
sure where you were landed.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I was. I was eight years old during the Ted
Offensive in nineteen sixty eight, okay, when I was born
in six.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Now I know you know, I've interviewed a lot of
soft guys in the past. You're a little different, obviously,
because you're the first one I think i've interviewed. It's
a pilot. But before we get to that, did the
Green Beret Movie influence you? Because I know it influenced
a lot of the other guys that joined the Green Berets,
even some Navy seals at The Green Beret Movie influenced
(04:56):
them in some capacity. So I'm talking about the John
Wayne Flick.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean, nothing better than the Duke
and the Green Rays fight Communism in Southeast Asia.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Okay, Yeah, it was a classic movie, there's no doubt
about that. And we'll talk about some of the other ones.
I guess for I'm trying to think of any kind
of movies in the past that had helicopters as a
focus and The only thing that pops up in my
high my mind was Apocalypse. Now I think it seems Yeah,
how'd you like that movie? I Love Man? Was that
(05:35):
a good representation of the the helicopters?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yes, sir, I think so cool.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And what was your first experience getting into the helicopter? Like,
I mean, obviously, I'm assuming you never flew until you
got into the to the military. Were you excited? Were
you nervous?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We're both, yeah, I think both on your on your
initial flight within a pilot, it's called a nickel ride,
and every worn off shark candidate, ABA or student you
give your IP or structor pilot a nickel for the
for your first flight. So yeah, I was. I was excited.
(06:18):
I had quite a bit of anxiety, I suppose, but
it was just something that I always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's with inflation that'd be like fifty bucks today, probably problem.
So when you went up there, now, what would do
you remember?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Now?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I guess from my audience, I'm not sure how familiar
they are. I'm not very familiar with it. What was
the kind of helicopter you first went out in? And
does it change later on?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, we went up in a thif five. That was
the primary training helicopter at Fort Rutger at the time.
It's a little it's a little Hughes three hundred Schweizer
use and then we I mean it wasn't but a
couple of weeks transitioned into Hughes and the HUET became
a primary training aircraft at Ford record.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Was that very different for you.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Oh, yes, sir, it's yeah. It's a cargo helicopter and
it's i mean compared to the little the little Schweicher
three hundred. Yeah, there's a lot of difference the flight controls,
and of course you go from a reset engine to
a turbine engine and it just changes everything.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Now, yeah, I remember, I think I've been on the
helicopter a few times. It's a very it's a very
amazing feeling, to tell you the truth. It's kind of
liberating in a odd way. I found it much more
enjoyable than any even single engine planes.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yes, sir, Yeah, it's just that that sense of vertical
flight and hover and yeah, hovering's cool. I mean they
taught monkeys fly airplanes. Helicopters got so much.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Now, what was the first time you remember the first
time you were deployed to act. Do you act to
use the helicopter in combat?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Oh? Absolutely, yes, sir. October of two thousand and one
in Afghanistan.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Oh wow, right after nine to eleven, Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, we were first on the ground there, and yeah,
I got down the business.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I know, speaking to some of the guys in sog
back then in the Vietnam days, it was crucial for
them to have that air support and reading about all
the operations over the last seventy years that we were
involved in. For whatever reasons, the air support was a
huge part of it. So I'm assuming you had a
huge burden on yourself, right, You had a lot of
(08:49):
responsibility to help those guys on the ground.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Right, Yes, sir. Well, in the in the initial stages,
we went out so low. It was just it was
two teams of AH and we went out and hunted
the enemy and then hunted any logistics, so you know,
trucks moving fuel or anything like that. And yeah, we
(09:12):
were there probably a couple of weeks operating before the
guys got there and start operating on the ground.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Tell us a little bit about the kind of weaponry
you had on those things. I'm not very familiar. So
what kind of weaponies as you have on those birds?
I guess they call them.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, they we well, they're referred to as little birds
or killer eggs or loach or you know. The loach
was from the Vietnam era, the eight six. But yeah,
our aircraft were configured with Dylan arrow M one thirty
four mini guns and it's a six barreled gun that
(09:52):
fires four thousand rounds per minute.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Oo.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, we carried two of those and then two seven
and shot rockapods. It's pretty much the standard configuration. We
can also carry on the left side of GAL nineteen
and that's a fifty caliber gatling gun. It's a three
barrel gun that fires one thousand rounds per minute. So
it's a whole lot of firepower and a little bitty package.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I would say, so I'm going to try to
take you through the experience of it for the audience.
What kind of sound was that generating when you fire
those things? I mean, obviously you had your headset on,
but that's still gonna center. You generate a lot of noise, vibration.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, it is. It's extremely violent. Is I guess the
best word I can use for that, and we don't
have doors on the aircraft. We don't fly with one
of the few units that fly with outdoors. And it's
simply because so we can get in and out of
the aircraft quickly, and the little bird companies. The guy
(11:02):
that's not flying always has a zoom four rifle up
ready to engage targets for opportunity. So yeah, that's it's
just violent, man, It's probably one of the most violent
and the many guns. And the gal only said about
twenty inches from your head, so every time they go off,
it just rattles your brain and your teeth. But that's
(11:24):
a great feeling. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Sure, So when you're firing that, what is it dealing
some hot lead to the bad guys? Yeah, I can
see that being the great feeling for sure. I'm not
sure about the rally of the teeth. But let me
ask you this, how hard is it to navigate that
that helicopter when you're starting to fire is it? Does
it get much more complicated or no?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
No, we do a lot of training in the one sixty.
That's all we do is we train, train, train, And
it was I mean for me, it was no more
then you know, we trained with live people on the ground.
We live fire and we do it more than anyone.
So and we talked about it after missions in our
(12:12):
debrief and you know and all of us it was
nothing more than you know, that's a target, Engage the target,
and it's all about the guy on your left and
your right and combat nothing else. It's not about country, flag,
mom or whatever. It's about your mates that are with you.
(12:32):
So whatever you got to do is stay alive and
get home.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Absolutely absolutely, And I guess I'll show my navy to
say here again, but what was what was the system
you used or how did you aim at it? Did
you have a computer with a little target. I'm trying
to figure out how this would work.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
That's great question, and probably ninety percent of the people
out there don't believe it. But we use a grease
pencil mark and we call it a pepper, and we
we take a black Army issue grease pencil or like
any grease pencil you've ever seen, and we put a
we put a dot on the windscreen, probably a inch
(13:11):
and a half in diameter. And some guys have some
pretty extravagant peppers. They'll put stadium lines at the six
o'clock position at the three o'clock position twelve and nine,
and then you use that grease pencil mark you put
it on the target and engage a target. But it
(13:31):
takes us about eighteen to twenty four months, almost two
years to train a gun pilot to shoot to the
standard in which we're held to. We have very very
high standards. I mean I've shot twelve meters in front
of friendlies in combat. Wow. So yeah, using and we've
(13:52):
tested you name it, and we've tested at HUDs and stuff.
We put on our night vision goggles and keep in
mind this is all at night, were night vision goggles.
But we when we're back at back at home base,
we'll go to the range three times a week. Shoot.
Shooting is a very perishable skill. So in order for
us to keep you know, to keep our skills up
(14:15):
to meet the standards that are held by the ground force,
and we have to go shoot and we have to train.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You have some high powered weapons. How much is weather
playing a role here? Does it play a lot a
bigger role at all?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, sir, I mean there's limitations that that you know,
we have that, but I've flown in some pretty bad weather.
Man because I mean, the guys needed us, and yeah,
they were getting in trouble. But we'll we'll push the weather.
But if it's and keep in mind too that you know,
we're all senior aviators. We're probably in our mid thirties
(14:52):
and w W three's W four, So we've got several
thousand hours under our belts and we've scared ourselves more
time and we could count. And I think I think
one of the the most scared I've ever been in
my life was because of weather. And that was coming
back from Aditha down one night. That's terrible.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I guess that's a good segue to my other question
is do you remember any operation or anything that popped
up that was one of the more scarier ones, whether
they shot at you or maybe you're running out of
a gas I could see that in a movie, right,
or any or you hit a bird, an actual bird,
or anything of that nature. It was one of the
more scariest moments.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
All those yeah, all the above. Really, I've met birds,
I've been shot shot at, I've been shot down. Oh wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
How did you get shut down?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
It was in It was on nineteen March two thousand
and four, while we were operating in Iraq and Fallujah
and Ramadi area. Back that was back when it was
the wild wild West, and there were a lot of
bad guys Al Qaeda and terrorist groups running around in
that part of the country. And it was our first
(16:11):
daytime mission since nineteen ninety three Battle of the Black
Sea and Modieshi. The guys we were supporting specializts needed
some help, so we saddled up and we took off
just this afternoon that day. And of course all every
(16:32):
one of us and hair was standing up on the
backward neck because one is daytime. You know, we're night stalkers,
not day stalkers.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, oh jeezy, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
And the bad guys like little black helicopters. And yeah,
I got down there and we helped the guys out,
and then I got I got hit with a service
to air missile, a shoulder launch. It's an SA sixteen,
which is very at the time, was very technologically advanced
(17:05):
weapon system.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
But how did you see it coming? Oh, sir, I
had no idea, just got hit. Boom.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
He shot me in the back. He wouldn't yeah, he
wouldn't face me, but.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That wouldn't go well for him.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
You know that's again, that's just God's path for us.
And yeah, two of the guys on the ground actually
saw the shot and started to suppress and engage you
know where it came from. But it was I mean,
we were already I was hit and we were going down. Yeah,
another day at the office. Stories in the book.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Now, I know, because in the book you talk about
the battle. And now we're going to head over to
the book, folks. Again, the book is called Death Weights
in the Dark. You can find it that death Weights
in the Dark dot com. It's Deathweights in the Dark.
Actually six Guns don't miss right and Amazon. It's on
Amazon exactly. And some of the co authors I don't
want to leave them out of it either, as Robert
Wentz actually he's the artist of the co author is
(18:10):
Georgie Hand and then Great Cooker. You're the main author,
I think though.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yes, sir, yeah, Geo was. He likes to call himself
a ghost writer, but now he was my editor and
he just has an act for it's just stories. Said
I would write my stories and then he doctored all
up and you know, makes sense out of it where
somebody can read it. I'm just knuckle dragger, like Geo's
(18:37):
former Delta operator, and we've been good good friends for
many years. And he was actually he and Starry Major
Kyle Lamb were two of my big inspirations, and then
my wife was my biggest inspiration for writing this. I
did not want to write it, and I really didn't.
It took me fifteen years, but it's like Kyle Lamb, yes, sir,
(19:00):
fifteen years. That's like Kyle Lamb always told me that, Hey,
he said, if it's not written, it never happened. So
please write about your adventures because you've had a bunch
of them, and I and I have. It's just I
was putting places at certain times, and you know some
(19:20):
guys would say wrong place, right time, right place, wrong time,
whatever the case. But yeah, it was. It took me
some time. But we were sitting there one evening. I'd
written some stories for Geo, for George hand A Fourth
and he was a writer for software app a couple
other large internet companies, and he was just yeah, he
(19:47):
was like, holy cow Cooke. He said, you got to write.
He said, we got enough stuff here for a book.
I said, well, okay, and h yeah, he kind of
he kind of proud of me along and.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So I got three hundred and ninety pages. That's a
pretty good sized book. By the way, we've interviewed Kyle Lamb. Yeah,
Kyle's a great guy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I love Kyle. I've known him for many, many years.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Super nice guy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Just released his new book, Brother of the Cloth. George Hand.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Oh, we're gonna have to bring him on to the.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yes, sir, Yeah, I highly recommend it, highly recommend.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Let me talk a little bit there for the folks
here in the book. You got the Battle of Mogo
d Shoot, were you there as well?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
No? No?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
And Osama bin Lad Mission, the Abu Bakar all like
Dottie Raid. Were you in that one as well?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Okay, So just some of the ones you just talk about, Yes, sir.
When you hear about special Op troops doing something incredible
on the ground, it's almost always because one sixtieth sore
pilots like Gregory Gravy. We're gonna find that why he's
called Gravy Cocher flew them in and provided air support
and whisk them back out, all under the cover of darkness.
But I guess we found out what happens. You're not
in the darkness. That's the most pleasant thing, I guess.
(21:12):
So why do they call you Gravy? I gotta find
that one out.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Well, goodness, it's in the book.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
We'll let that go ahead.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Many years ago, start Major Kyle Lamb. We were eating
breakfast one morning. I think we had gone we all
used to shoot tactical three gun matches. I think we
were going to We were in Alabama or Georgia or somewhere,
but that's where we were. And that's when Kyle branded
(21:45):
me with the name Gravy. So you're gonna let your
imadamination flow on that.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I can't wait. I think the book is also it's
an audiobook too. I think sometimes these books are the
ask when you listen to them.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, sir, and I actually read the book for the audio.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Oh did you really?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I did not want to do. But again, Kyle George
mother buddies prodded me and poked me and said, you've
you've got to read this book. Greg.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You got the great voice. Yeah, you got the voice.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It was fun. It's hard work.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Oh yeah, black Hawk Down. Was that before or after
you started your your missions in October two thousand and
I can't remember. Did you already Were you already a
pilot before that or yes.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I was. That was that happened on October third, nineteen
ninety three and Modishu Somalia bat Love to Black And
I was actually in Green Platoon at the at the
one sixty that's our training company. Yeah, when that, when
that happened.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
What kind of a feeling did you get because of that?
I mean, it's got to be different when you know
it's your regiment at least you're part of it.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, there was a lot of emotion. Of course, when
you lose your buddies and you know, guys fall on
the battlefield, it's it's extremely emotional for a warrior. And again,
you know, we we mourn in our own time, in
our own place because we're always so mission focused and
you just have to be. You just have to be. Yeah,
(23:23):
it was a hard day for special Ops and the
army and the military as a whole.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Absolutely. Let me ask you this, Actually I want to
I'll save that one for the next one. That'd be
a good leading Now you went, you went to Afghanistan
right after nine to Eleven's here, I guess you're assuming
you were part of that hunt for ben Laden early. Yes,
was there a lot of I'm assuming there was a
lot of energy and motivation to try to capture him,
(23:52):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, yes, How was Afghanistan in the landscapes, because I
know that's probably it's quite different than Iraq.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, it was like going back about two thousand years.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Jeez, that's what was up here.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It's the most rugged, nasty train I've ever seen in
my life. And I've been all over the world. I
mean the mountains, and you've got mountains, you've got desert,
and we operated mainly in that southern desert from Kandahar
to Lashkurga to the to the west up there. That's
(24:27):
where they you know, Omar had a house just outside Kendahar,
and yeah, they're running that desert, but that's where we
operated the first couple of months. They're in that southern desert.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Let me ask you this because I know when I've
talked to soft guys green Berets, a lot of the
guys on the ground, there's a lot of adrenaline pumping.
You move in one hundred and fifty miles an hour.
Then you get to civilian life and it slows down
like ten miles an hour. I'm assuming your life is
kind of the same way in regards to being a pilot.
(25:02):
It's still moving pretty faster, is it. Do you think
it's a little faster than being on the ground or slower.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
No, I think it's faster, and the ground guys will
tell you too. But yeah, our you know, our environment
or the bubble that we're in at that time is
constantly moving. And you know, once the guy, the guys
on the ground get to the objective or get to
the target, then they're running. You know, they're going to
(25:28):
where they need to go. But we're up overhead, flying
at seventy miles an hour, eighty miles an hour or so.
It Yeah, it's just different. But we have good situational
awareness for sure, and we memorize the ground scheme maneuver.
We probably know the ground mission better than the ground
(25:49):
guys do because mainly before we pull that trigger, we
have to know where every friendly is on the ground
because we don't want to a blue on blue or
a fracture side or friendly fire. So yeah, we study
that thing and memorize it and know where every piece
(26:10):
is on that ground. Is that ground force starts to maneuver.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
As a person, Greg, how did it change you being
a pilot? I've asked the soft guys. Because of the
training they went through, seer training, buds training, everybody seems
to have grown a lot. They realize you have to
overcome obstacles. You got to get away from complaining and
start solving problems. How do you think being a pilot
(26:37):
in that kind of a setting changed you?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Well, man, that's a tough question. Doc. Oh no, I
don't know. But aviators in general are just you know,
we're I'll say this Army Special Operations or Special Operations
as a whole. It draws a man. We're all type
(27:02):
A or A plus as our docs called us personalities,
and you know, we all have a very common goal,
we have a common bond. It's a tribe. And but
I mean as far as just being a human being,
I don't I don't think it changed me that much.
(27:26):
I mean, I was brought up in a good Christian
family and I you know, with good core values and
you know, hard work, hard work will set you free. Right,
That's true. And it's as my career path through the
Army advanced and I went from different different units to
(27:48):
Special Operations, it was yeah, I had the best commanders,
and I had the best pilots and crew, chiuse and
armament dogs and armament personnel. We call them dogs, and
uh yeah, we you know, we have one common goal,
and that's to complete the mission successfully, and we look
out after each other. But I really can't think off
(28:11):
the top of my head. Like I said earlier, that's
a hard question. Nobody's asked me that.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
How about this. Well, we'll get back to that one.
Maybe this will stir some of the thought process. But
when did you get out.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Two thousand and eight? I retired two eight. But combat
changes changes. It's just there's nothing glorious about it. It's
just the nastiest, ugliest thing a human can ever experience. Yeah,
(28:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I'm assuming did you see casualties that you shot up?
You were able to see that from the air where
you flying too fast to even pay attention to it.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Hundreds of them?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You saw hundreds of them? Yes, sir, that'll change their
mindset too.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Really close and we shoot bad guys with our M
four rifles. So I mean we dropped pangrenades on them
when we fly over them.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Really?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Oh yes, yeah, we got in trouble one night doing that.
I'm very happy with us about that. We're the six
guns and like one of the Delta startant majors set
in the talk that night, he stood up and said, hey, sir,
it's B Company six guns. They're just trying to kill somebody.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Now. In two thousand and eight, I'm assuming when did
you start again flying?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I started flying in eighty nine. I went to
flight school. I was enlisted prior to that. Came in
in eighty six. I was enlisted. I was at the
hundred and first and three two seventh Infantry for three
years where I went to flight school.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I guess my question would be did the technology change
a lot in the last five years in regards to
the helicopters.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yes, sir, it we really started to see it. And
keep in mind that the one sixtieth we test a
lot of equipment, and I mean from the gear the
pilot wearers, to the helicopters, to technology that comes out
to aircraft's survivability equipment. And when we find something that works,
(30:29):
we push it down to the big Army, to the Marines,
to the Navy, to all the DoD So you know,
the regiment as a whole is somewhat of a test facility.
And but yeah, our helicopter that the Little Bird, the
A eight six and the MH six. We went from
the J model to the M or MIC model and
(30:52):
we got a six bladed rotor system or four bladed
tail rotor system. That changed from five to to five
blade main main roader, two blade tail rot and then
it was a glass cockpit in the new a H
m H six Little Bird. But yeah, we yes, we
saw a lot of technological advances, and of course drones
(31:14):
were coming on in that time period, and you know,
they're a huge, huge tool for the battlefield that they
saved lives, and yeah, it's one you know, one less
team or squad or whatever the case may be, that
we don't have to put out there and we can
we can remotely put eyes on the target and get
intel before you know, humans operators go in there and
(31:38):
hit the target.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's interesting. I know I did an interview. Well, when
this comes out, it may not be the same, but
it was a few months back Lieutenant Colonel Phelps and
he was the head of one of those drone operations
for the drone unit. I'm not sure how to how
he phrased it. But it's really amazing to hear. It's
(31:59):
like college behind that too, because you wouldn't think there
was much going on, but there is, because they're actually
seeing technology improving. You can actually see the individuals much
more clearly now than you good years back. Yeah, is
there anything in the new technology when you were getting
ready to retire? Anything? You say, God, I wish I
had that when I started.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I mean in the little bird community, in the mh
ah six community, you know, we pretty much had steam
gauges what we call them, you know, altimeters and you know,
gauges that you looked at, analog gauges, not digital. And
the new aircraft. Some of us older guys were like,
(32:44):
you know, I don't want all this stuff. I want
to look at a gauge. I don't want to look
at a screen. And I got to touch many buttons
to make the mini guns go or the rockets go
or you know, in the past, it was just flipping
a switch up and we had you know, we were
hot engauge. But yeah, there was a learning curve, and
you know, the younger guys they were just eating it
(33:06):
up because that's a generation, you know, they do whatever
they do play Xbox. I don't know that it was
an easier transition for them, but as far as you know,
being a being an aviator in that unit, I mean,
they are the best pilots on the planet bar nude,
and their standards have never gone down. And I just
(33:28):
love each and every one of them. I prey for
them every night, every day. And uh yeah, it's but
there has been a huge technological jump since you know,
nine to eleven. I mean we watched it. We watched
that happen physically literally, because we would come up with
a good idea or Halot's you know, with this work.
(33:51):
Can we do this better? Just to make us more
efficient on the battlefield.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I want to do something too, folks. I'm gonna read
you a little bit of an excerpt. I'm the book
because it's really especially the first few pages. The prologue
is powerful, but there's just so much about it. I'm
going to read you the intent for writing the book,
he says, he provides a story for my children and grandchildren,
my family. Number Two, if you're a veteran, I wanted
to help you heal. Number three, I feel it is
(34:18):
important for the next generation of warriors and number four,
I want to make the reader aware of the struggles
that all veterans and first responders face PTSD, he says
A chief cocher started a journal on nine to eleven.
I wrote about every mission for eight years and and
kept the journal in my gun safe Geo. As he
mentions George Hand, I am thankful and grateful that you
(34:39):
decided to attack this mission with me. You know, Kyle,
thank you for pushing me over the years and for
your inspiration. But it's amazing that when you restarted reading
the stories of what you went through and what you saw,
it's just so much going on it doesn't even seem real.
Did you ever look back at the book and look
at it and say I really did that?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Or every day?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Every day?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah? And again, you know I was put in these
places by design, I guess, or God's path for me
that you know, in order to be there to help,
or maybe I'll figure it out when I get to
heaven or somebody will explain it to me. So it
(35:24):
was a heck of a ride. But again, I you know,
the prologue is the meat of why I wrote that.
And oh, as of a couple of weeks ago, I
donate one hundred percent of everything, and.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
You were saying, all the proceeds go where.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yes, right, I donate one hundred percent of proceeds, and
we've donated over forty thousand dollars to date to offer
to help my brothers, sisters, their families, their It's yeah,
it's it's really cool. I mean I've sold I've sold
three books. One went for one thousand and thirty three dollars,
(36:08):
one went for eight hundred dollars, and one went for
five hundred dollars. Oh wow, yeah, to to I donated
the fundraisers. So yeah, people have just it's been it's
been awesome. Really yeah, that's well. So my buddies are like,
you're crazy. You know, God's planning for mee. So you know,
(36:34):
I want to help folks out.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
You know. It's it's it's it's interesting. I hear you
saying that. It's it's bittersweet for me. It's as sweet
as you're doing that. It's an awesome thing, but the
bitterness is that I wish the government would to do
more themselves, you know, to be loyal to the individuals
who sacrifice their lives or put their lives on the
line everybody else.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Not during their time in service, but after they leave.
And that's that's why I chose chapter one that character
that story for that because I want to grab that reader,
and you know, it's about my best friend taking his life.
He was a delta operator of Virus Border for many
(37:16):
many years. Yeah, been there, done that. Read the book?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I hate the book? That was? That was that, Leon Hanson?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Yes, Sir mass Sharpon Hanson.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, that was a tough That was a tough read too.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I guess I'm sorry, No, I said, yeah, man, it
was that was that was a tough one.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
My condolence is the last few minutes together here. I
haven't touched upon this is I haven't heard about it.
But since you're flying high in the heavens a lot
during your career, did you ever have a moment where
you said, man, what is God doing? Why is he
doing this? Oh?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I have a lot, Yeah, I can't count them.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Does it ever challenge your faith?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
No? No, never, never, never, never to help.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Out there to have a belief in God and.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Christian that you better believe it. Yeah, that's what carried
me through my career in the army. And then you know,
and I talk about some very deep, dark times after
I got out of the army and my my failures,
you know, And that that's why I really did not
(38:34):
want to write about these personal things that happened with
me for the whole world to read. And I mean,
I think, I'm well, I just I'm a humble guy,
and you know, I just want to live my life
and love my family and contribute to society. But I
just And I was like, but my wife and I were, Eedie.
(38:57):
We were sitting there one evening and she goes, hey,
here's how I want you to think about this. Think
about writing this for your children and your grandchildren. This
is your legacy. Boy. I I could grasp that and
hold it. Very next morning I started writing, and eighty
(39:19):
nine days later I had the manuscript written. How long
eighty nine days?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Holy cow, geez, give.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Me a mission, doc. And I'm I'm yeah, I'm like
a junk yard dog.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And somebody's going to get you to the right book
number two with that speed, you better watch out.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Well. In another we have a children's book that's published
Me is for veteran Yeah, yeah, I worked with my
daughter and another friend of ours, and yeah, that's that's
out there. So yeah, we're all very excited about that,
honored that they asked me to come on board and
help them with it.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
So what's the age range for that.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Oh, from just starting to read to goodness gracious to adults. Yeah,
we talked about the Constitution, we talked about core values.
You know, something's not taught anymore. But what's really cool
about that children's book is that we've got the oh
(40:26):
dog on it. The QR codes. There's a QR code
on every page. It's alphabet, you know, like B for
battle or C for constitution. Okay, every page has a
QR code. You scan that QR code, well, it takes
you to the website and it gives you more and
more information about it. So we wanted to cool. Yeah, yeah,
(40:49):
that was really cool what they came up with. So
that was pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
So our last I guess our last five or six minutes,
we'll hit two big questions. Well, one big question, one's
kind of the same question, but how did you adjust
the civilian life? There was a fast transition, was it
a very slow process? How was that for you?
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I still haven't adjusted, Yes, sir, Well I'm better than
I was in two thousand and eight. But yeah, you
hit the ground and you know, all of us that
serve regardless if you retire, you just do your four
or six or eight year hitch. And it's uh. At
(41:30):
that time, I personally the military does not do a
good job of transitioning these guys out of the out
of the military. And pretty much, you know, the big
Green machine is what we call. It continues to roll
and it is what it is. But you know it
that opportunity is there and you just have to keep
(41:52):
driving forward and never never ever quit everything. And yeah,
it's it is tough, man. It really was for family life,
for my life, and you know, I have my own business,
my own company, and I just you know, kept doing
what I knew to do. And yeah, it was it
(42:14):
was all good. But I talked to you know, my
path now is to help veterans and help these folks
that come out or they're having problems or issues or
whatever the case, that you know, I can lead them
and mentor them down the right path to help them out.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
That's a great thing I have found out. It was
a lot of the soft units where their Navy seals
are Green Beret or have a huge bond.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Oh, yes, sir, Yeah, that's what I miss most. That's
what all of us missed is the camaraderie and and
your tribe. You know, your brothers, because dog gone, those
those those relationships making combat or like none other. We're
we're family, yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, that's the great thing. I mean, I admire the
work you're doing, the work the Kyle does and other
individuals as well as you continue to keep everybody in
contact in some capacity.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yes, you have to, especially when you know, after this
thing went down to Afghanistan, a lot of guys got
got sad, and I man, I talked to a bunch
I did you know. I was angry for a couple
of days, and I prayed about it a bunch and
so then I switched gears to help my buddies that
(43:32):
were I mean, they were really down. I'm like, hey, listen,
and this is what I you know, I came up with.
I'm like, look, they sent us over there in two
thousand and one, most elite force on the planet with
Fifth Group. They were up north, we were down south,
and we did our jobs, and we did a good job,
(43:54):
and we almost brought everybody home and every every guy
said that too. They're like, oh, going, I wish i'd
talked to you a week ago. You're right, You're right,
I said, you know, there's nothing we can do to
affect it, or what we did was was good. We
did a good job.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
So I'm absolutely right. That's really what matters. Right, you
did the job when you had to do it, and
bet it was successful at the time.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Was successful. We met the commander's intent, which it was
the President of the United States and in the end
state that he had put out for us. Yeah, we
did in nine weeks what the Russians couldn't do in
eight years. Think about that.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Oh yeah, that was a big mess over there to
the days of the mujahidin. Yes, sir, Yes, sir, that
was a big ordeal too. Well, Greg, amazing stuff. I mean,
I can keep you here all day talking about this stuff. Yeah,
this is so fascinating and you've seen so much. And
(45:01):
I know I missed a lot, you know, because again,
my my naiveness doesn't allow me to be able to
capture everything. I'm not sure what would happen up there
in the helicopter. When's the last time you flew a helicopter?
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I stay current. Yes, really, yes, sir. Yeah, we here
in Graham, Texas. Young County Warrior Ranch is a nonprofit
we have here. We conduct a helicopter hog hunt every
year in March. Oh yeah, we had. We had one
hundred veterans here this year. Oh it was, it was awesome.
It was.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
That sounds cool.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
When we do another one, a big one in Ennis, Texas,
helicopters for heroes. We do that one in February. Yeah,
so I yeah, I stay current. Friend of mine own
is a little bird, so I get to go play
around in it and fond memories. Fond memories.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Are you dropping water balloons instead of grenades now?
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Or five five six bullets? We shoot pigs out of
the helicopter? Really, yes, we do. Yeah, they're terrible. They're
terrible here. They calls millions and millions and millions of
dollars worth of damage every year pigs. Yes, yes, sir, yeah,
look it up. Look it up. I think the last
(46:16):
two years ago, last one I saw was forty two
million dollars worth of damage just in the state of Texas.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Holy cow.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Oh it's terrible, man, that's r.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I'm gonna have to look that up. I want to
find out what's going on.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
With the pigs.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah again, folks, it's Deathweights in the Dark dot com.
You get the book there. You can also get it
on Amazon. Deathweights and the Dark six Guns don't Miss
by Greg Cooker c ok e R. The other book
is V for veteran So if you have children, I
highly recommend the book. It's a good way to get
them started. Thank you so much, Greg again for taking
(46:52):
the time.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Thank you, Doc. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Sure, dude, thank you very much. I appreciate it again.
Thank you so much for yours. I know how much
it means, and I really appreciate that. Folks share, subscribe,
hit that like button. You know we like it.
Welcome to Stories of Special Forces Operators Podcast. Listen to
some of the bravest and toughest people on the planet
share their stories. Sit back and enjoy.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back everyone. Well, today we have a great guest
by His name is Greg cocher co k e R.
He's a retired US Army CW four. Let's been a
little bit more about him. Greg flew the AH six
Little Bird attack helicopters with one hundred and sixtieth Special
Operations Aviation Regiment Airborne. As a senior lead instructor pilot.
(00:47):
Cocher Le logged over seven thousand hours of accident free flying,
more than six thousand hours flying under night vision goggles,
and a staggering fifteen hundred hours of combat time. If
you're a pilot yourself, you can appreciate it. Spanning a
thirty year military career and eleven combat tours from two
thousand and two two thousand and one in two thousand
(01:08):
and seven, so we can say he was definitely not bored.
But we're gonna also be talking about his book today.
The book is called Death Waits in the Dark. You
can find more about it a Deathweights in the Dark
dot com. So go check it out where we get started. Folks,
we should have shared subscribe, hit that like button. You know,
we like it and we truly appreciate it. That's not
waste any more time and get to our guest, Greg Cocher.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Welcome, sir, Hey Doc, thanks for having me. It's an
honor to be on here with you today. And yeah,
I look forward to speaking with you. And you know,
just educating people's that's the primary reason why I wrote
the book, and you know, just to let people understand
know what we're doing, what we've been doing, and what
(01:54):
we will continue to do for many many years to come.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Let's start off with this if we can. Greg, tell
us a little bit about what motivated you to get
into the military.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Oh goodness, probably it was probably a good Texas judge,
but that's another story for another time. Yeah, my father
was in the military, and you know, as a young child,
(02:25):
grew up around aviation and aircraft and as a child
of the sixties, you know, watching the Vietnam War on
TV for many many years. But I always I always
wanted to fly. I just had an infatuation with flight.
I of course, again watching the helicopter war in Vietnam.
(02:48):
I just I loved helicopters. So my goal was, or
my in state, was to go into the military. And
I had talked to the Navy and the Marines and
the Air Force. I hadn't finished my degree at the time,
and the Army has their warrant acer program, so they're
(03:08):
you know, one of their marketing or selling points for
the Army was high school to flight school. I actually
had two warn Offscar candidates in my flight class that
were eighteen years old. I just graduated. They were at
Fort Ruger learning to fly helicopters, and actually both of
them went on to leave great careers and both of
(03:32):
them were attack guys. Yeah, over twenty years, they served
multiple combat tours. Yeah, when we we'd go off to
do whatever we were going to do that weekend, they
were they had to hang out because they were only eighteen,
they couldn't drink beers, so they'd writers Kate wards. You know,
That's that's what eighteen year olds from Northwest too, I guess. So, yeah,
(03:58):
that was primarily I just I come from long line
of warriors, and I know that you know, that was
God's path for me.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Let me ask you this, and I don't mean to
bring up your age, but were you able to get
into Vietnam or were you already older? I mean you
were young, too young still to get in. I'm not
sure where you were landed.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
I was. I was eight years old during the Ted
Offensive in nineteen sixty eight, okay, when I was born
in six.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Now I know you know, I've interviewed a lot of
soft guys in the past. You're a little different, obviously,
because you're the first one I think i've interviewed. It's
a pilot. But before we get to that, did the
Green Beret Movie influence you? Because I know it influenced
a lot of the other guys that joined the Green Berets,
even some Navy seals at The Green Beret Movie influenced
(04:56):
them in some capacity. So I'm talking about the John
Wayne Flick.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean, nothing better than the Duke
and the Green Rays fight Communism in Southeast Asia.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Okay, Yeah, it was a classic movie, there's no doubt
about that. And we'll talk about some of the other ones.
I guess for I'm trying to think of any kind
of movies in the past that had helicopters as a
focus and The only thing that pops up in my
high my mind was Apocalypse. Now I think it seems Yeah,
how'd you like that movie? I Love Man? Was that
(05:35):
a good representation of the the helicopters?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yes, sir, I think so cool.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And what was your first experience getting into the helicopter? Like,
I mean, obviously, I'm assuming you never flew until you
got into the to the military. Were you excited? Were
you nervous?
Speaker 3 (05:54):
We're both, yeah, I think both on your on your
initial flight within a pilot, it's called a nickel ride,
and every worn off shark candidate, ABA or student you
give your IP or structor pilot a nickel for the
for your first flight. So yeah, I was. I was excited.
(06:18):
I had quite a bit of anxiety, I suppose, but
it was just something that I always wanted to do.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's with inflation that'd be like fifty bucks today, probably problem.
So when you went up there, now, what would do
you remember?
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Now?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
I guess from my audience, I'm not sure how familiar
they are. I'm not very familiar with it. What was
the kind of helicopter you first went out in? And
does it change later on?
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Yeah, we went up in a thif five. That was
the primary training helicopter at Fort Rutger at the time.
It's a little it's a little Hughes three hundred Schweizer
use and then we I mean it wasn't but a
couple of weeks transitioned into Hughes and the HUET became
a primary training aircraft at Ford record.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Was that very different for you.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Oh, yes, sir, it's yeah. It's a cargo helicopter and
it's i mean compared to the little the little Schweicher
three hundred. Yeah, there's a lot of difference the flight controls,
and of course you go from a reset engine to
a turbine engine and it just changes everything.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Now, yeah, I remember, I think I've been on the
helicopter a few times. It's a very it's a very
amazing feeling, to tell you the truth. It's kind of
liberating in a odd way. I found it much more
enjoyable than any even single engine planes.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yes, sir, Yeah, it's just that that sense of vertical
flight and hover and yeah, hovering's cool. I mean they
taught monkeys fly airplanes. Helicopters got so much.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Now, what was the first time you remember the first
time you were deployed to act. Do you act to
use the helicopter in combat?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Oh? Absolutely, yes, sir. October of two thousand and one
in Afghanistan.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Oh wow, right after nine to eleven, Yes, sir.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Yeah, we were first on the ground there, and yeah,
I got down the business.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
I know, speaking to some of the guys in sog
back then in the Vietnam days, it was crucial for
them to have that air support and reading about all
the operations over the last seventy years that we were
involved in. For whatever reasons, the air support was a
huge part of it. So I'm assuming you had a
huge burden on yourself, right, You had a lot of
(08:49):
responsibility to help those guys on the ground.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Right, Yes, sir. Well, in the in the initial stages,
we went out so low. It was just it was
two teams of AH and we went out and hunted
the enemy and then hunted any logistics, so you know,
trucks moving fuel or anything like that. And yeah, we
(09:12):
were there probably a couple of weeks operating before the
guys got there and start operating on the ground.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
Tell us a little bit about the kind of weaponry
you had on those things. I'm not very familiar. So
what kind of weaponies as you have on those birds?
I guess they call them.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, they we well, they're referred to as little birds
or killer eggs or loach or you know. The loach
was from the Vietnam era, the eight six. But yeah,
our aircraft were configured with Dylan arrow M one thirty
four mini guns and it's a six barreled gun that
(09:52):
fires four thousand rounds per minute.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Oo.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yeah, we carried two of those and then two seven
and shot rockapods. It's pretty much the standard configuration. We
can also carry on the left side of GAL nineteen
and that's a fifty caliber gatling gun. It's a three
barrel gun that fires one thousand rounds per minute. So
it's a whole lot of firepower and a little bitty package.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Yeah, I would say, so I'm going to try to
take you through the experience of it for the audience.
What kind of sound was that generating when you fire
those things? I mean, obviously you had your headset on,
but that's still gonna center. You generate a lot of noise, vibration.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, it is. It's extremely violent. Is I guess the
best word I can use for that, and we don't
have doors on the aircraft. We don't fly with one
of the few units that fly with outdoors. And it's
simply because so we can get in and out of
the aircraft quickly, and the little bird companies. The guy
(11:02):
that's not flying always has a zoom four rifle up
ready to engage targets for opportunity. So yeah, that's it's
just violent, man, It's probably one of the most violent
and the many guns. And the gal only said about
twenty inches from your head, so every time they go off,
it just rattles your brain and your teeth. But that's
(11:24):
a great feeling. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Sure, So when you're firing that, what is it dealing
some hot lead to the bad guys? Yeah, I can
see that being the great feeling for sure. I'm not
sure about the rally of the teeth. But let me
ask you this, how hard is it to navigate that
that helicopter when you're starting to fire is it? Does
it get much more complicated or no?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
No, we do a lot of training in the one sixty.
That's all we do is we train, train, train, And
it was I mean for me, it was no more
then you know, we trained with live people on the ground.
We live fire and we do it more than anyone.
So and we talked about it after missions in our
(12:12):
debrief and you know and all of us it was
nothing more than you know, that's a target, Engage the target,
and it's all about the guy on your left and
your right and combat nothing else. It's not about country, flag,
mom or whatever. It's about your mates that are with you.
(12:32):
So whatever you got to do is stay alive and
get home.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Absolutely absolutely, And I guess I'll show my navy to
say here again, but what was what was the system
you used or how did you aim at it? Did
you have a computer with a little target. I'm trying
to figure out how this would work.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
That's great question, and probably ninety percent of the people
out there don't believe it. But we use a grease
pencil mark and we call it a pepper, and we
we take a black Army issue grease pencil or like
any grease pencil you've ever seen, and we put a
we put a dot on the windscreen, probably a inch
(13:11):
and a half in diameter. And some guys have some
pretty extravagant peppers. They'll put stadium lines at the six
o'clock position at the three o'clock position twelve and nine,
and then you use that grease pencil mark you put
it on the target and engage a target. But it
(13:31):
takes us about eighteen to twenty four months, almost two
years to train a gun pilot to shoot to the
standard in which we're held to. We have very very
high standards. I mean I've shot twelve meters in front
of friendlies in combat. Wow. So yeah, using and we've
(13:52):
tested you name it, and we've tested at HUDs and stuff.
We put on our night vision goggles and keep in
mind this is all at night, were night vision goggles.
But we when we're back at back at home base,
we'll go to the range three times a week. Shoot.
Shooting is a very perishable skill. So in order for
us to keep you know, to keep our skills up
(14:15):
to meet the standards that are held by the ground force,
and we have to go shoot and we have to train.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
You have some high powered weapons. How much is weather
playing a role here? Does it play a lot a
bigger role at all?
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah, sir, I mean there's limitations that that you know,
we have that, but I've flown in some pretty bad weather.
Man because I mean, the guys needed us, and yeah,
they were getting in trouble. But we'll we'll push the weather.
But if it's and keep in mind too that you know,
we're all senior aviators. We're probably in our mid thirties
(14:52):
and w W three's W four, So we've got several
thousand hours under our belts and we've scared ourselves more
time and we could count. And I think I think
one of the the most scared I've ever been in
my life was because of weather. And that was coming
back from Aditha down one night. That's terrible.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I guess that's a good segue to my other question
is do you remember any operation or anything that popped
up that was one of the more scarier ones, whether
they shot at you or maybe you're running out of
a gas I could see that in a movie, right,
or any or you hit a bird, an actual bird,
or anything of that nature. It was one of the
more scariest moments.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
All those yeah, all the above. Really, I've met birds,
I've been shot shot at, I've been shot down. Oh wow, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
How did you get shut down?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
It was in It was on nineteen March two thousand
and four, while we were operating in Iraq and Fallujah
and Ramadi area. Back that was back when it was
the wild wild West, and there were a lot of
bad guys Al Qaeda and terrorist groups running around in
that part of the country. And it was our first
(16:11):
daytime mission since nineteen ninety three Battle of the Black
Sea and Modieshi. The guys we were supporting specializts needed
some help, so we saddled up and we took off
just this afternoon that day. And of course all every
(16:32):
one of us and hair was standing up on the
backward neck because one is daytime. You know, we're night stalkers,
not day stalkers.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, oh jeezy, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
And the bad guys like little black helicopters. And yeah,
I got down there and we helped the guys out,
and then I got I got hit with a service
to air missile, a shoulder launch. It's an SA sixteen,
which is very at the time, was very technologically advanced
(17:05):
weapon system.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
But how did you see it coming? Oh, sir, I
had no idea, just got hit. Boom.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
He shot me in the back. He wouldn't yeah, he
wouldn't face me, but.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
That wouldn't go well for him.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
You know that's again, that's just God's path for us.
And yeah, two of the guys on the ground actually
saw the shot and started to suppress and engage you
know where it came from. But it was I mean,
we were already I was hit and we were going down. Yeah,
another day at the office. Stories in the book.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Now, I know, because in the book you talk about
the battle. And now we're going to head over to
the book, folks. Again, the book is called Death Weights
in the Dark. You can find it that death Weights
in the Dark dot com. It's Deathweights in the Dark.
Actually six Guns don't miss right and Amazon. It's on
Amazon exactly. And some of the co authors I don't
want to leave them out of it either, as Robert
Wentz actually he's the artist of the co author is
(18:10):
Georgie Hand and then Great Cooker. You're the main author,
I think though.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yes, sir, yeah, Geo was. He likes to call himself
a ghost writer, but now he was my editor and
he just has an act for it's just stories. Said
I would write my stories and then he doctored all
up and you know, makes sense out of it where
somebody can read it. I'm just knuckle dragger, like Geo's
(18:37):
former Delta operator, and we've been good good friends for
many years. And he was actually he and Starry Major
Kyle Lamb were two of my big inspirations, and then
my wife was my biggest inspiration for writing this. I
did not want to write it, and I really didn't.
It took me fifteen years, but it's like Kyle Lamb, yes, sir,
(19:00):
fifteen years. That's like Kyle Lamb always told me that, Hey,
he said, if it's not written, it never happened. So
please write about your adventures because you've had a bunch
of them, and I and I have. It's just I
was putting places at certain times, and you know some
(19:20):
guys would say wrong place, right time, right place, wrong time,
whatever the case. But yeah, it was. It took me
some time. But we were sitting there one evening. I'd
written some stories for Geo, for George hand A Fourth
and he was a writer for software app a couple
other large internet companies, and he was just yeah, he
(19:47):
was like, holy cow Cooke. He said, you got to write.
He said, we got enough stuff here for a book.
I said, well, okay, and h yeah, he kind of
he kind of proud of me along and.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
So I got three hundred and ninety pages. That's a
pretty good sized book. By the way, we've interviewed Kyle Lamb. Yeah,
Kyle's a great guy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
I love Kyle. I've known him for many, many years.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Super nice guy. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Just released his new book, Brother of the Cloth. George Hand.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
Oh, we're gonna have to bring him on to the.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Yes, sir, Yeah, I highly recommend it, highly recommend.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
Let me talk a little bit there for the folks
here in the book. You got the Battle of Mogo
d Shoot, were you there as well?
Speaker 3 (20:41):
No? No?
Speaker 2 (20:43):
And Osama bin Lad Mission, the Abu Bakar all like
Dottie Raid. Were you in that one as well?
Speaker 3 (20:48):
No?
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Okay, So just some of the ones you just talk about, Yes, sir.
When you hear about special Op troops doing something incredible
on the ground, it's almost always because one sixtieth sore
pilots like Gregory Gravy. We're gonna find that why he's
called Gravy Cocher flew them in and provided air support
and whisk them back out, all under the cover of darkness.
But I guess we found out what happens. You're not
in the darkness. That's the most pleasant thing, I guess.
(21:12):
So why do they call you Gravy? I gotta find
that one out.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
Well, goodness, it's in the book.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
We'll let that go ahead.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Many years ago, start Major Kyle Lamb. We were eating
breakfast one morning. I think we had gone we all
used to shoot tactical three gun matches. I think we
were going to We were in Alabama or Georgia or somewhere,
but that's where we were. And that's when Kyle branded
(21:45):
me with the name Gravy. So you're gonna let your
imadamination flow on that.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
I can't wait. I think the book is also it's
an audiobook too. I think sometimes these books are the
ask when you listen to them.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, sir, and I actually read the book for the audio.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Oh did you really?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I did not want to do. But again, Kyle George
mother buddies prodded me and poked me and said, you've
you've got to read this book. Greg.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You got the great voice. Yeah, you got the voice.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
It was fun. It's hard work.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Oh yeah, black Hawk Down. Was that before or after
you started your your missions in October two thousand and
I can't remember. Did you already Were you already a
pilot before that or yes.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
I was. That was that happened on October third, nineteen
ninety three and Modishu Somalia bat Love to Black And
I was actually in Green Platoon at the at the
one sixty that's our training company. Yeah, when that, when
that happened.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
What kind of a feeling did you get because of that?
I mean, it's got to be different when you know
it's your regiment at least you're part of it.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Yeah, there was a lot of emotion. Of course, when
you lose your buddies and you know, guys fall on
the battlefield, it's it's extremely emotional for a warrior. And again,
you know, we we mourn in our own time, in
our own place because we're always so mission focused and
you just have to be. You just have to be. Yeah,
(23:23):
it was a hard day for special Ops and the
army and the military as a whole.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Absolutely. Let me ask you this, Actually I want to
I'll save that one for the next one. That'd be
a good leading Now you went, you went to Afghanistan
right after nine to Eleven's here, I guess you're assuming
you were part of that hunt for ben Laden early. Yes,
was there a lot of I'm assuming there was a
lot of energy and motivation to try to capture him,
(23:52):
Is that true?
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, yes, How was Afghanistan in the landscapes, because I
know that's probably it's quite different than Iraq.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Yeah, it was like going back about two thousand years.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Jeez, that's what was up here.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
It's the most rugged, nasty train I've ever seen in
my life. And I've been all over the world. I
mean the mountains, and you've got mountains, you've got desert,
and we operated mainly in that southern desert from Kandahar
to Lashkurga to the to the west up there. That's
(24:27):
where they you know, Omar had a house just outside Kendahar,
and yeah, they're running that desert, but that's where we
operated the first couple of months. They're in that southern desert.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Let me ask you this because I know when I've
talked to soft guys green Berets, a lot of the
guys on the ground, there's a lot of adrenaline pumping.
You move in one hundred and fifty miles an hour.
Then you get to civilian life and it slows down
like ten miles an hour. I'm assuming your life is
kind of the same way in regards to being a pilot.
(25:02):
It's still moving pretty faster, is it. Do you think
it's a little faster than being on the ground or slower.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
No, I think it's faster, and the ground guys will
tell you too. But yeah, our you know, our environment
or the bubble that we're in at that time is
constantly moving. And you know, once the guy, the guys
on the ground get to the objective or get to
the target, then they're running. You know, they're going to
(25:28):
where they need to go. But we're up overhead, flying
at seventy miles an hour, eighty miles an hour or so.
It Yeah, it's just different. But we have good situational
awareness for sure, and we memorize the ground scheme maneuver.
We probably know the ground mission better than the ground
(25:49):
guys do because mainly before we pull that trigger, we
have to know where every friendly is on the ground
because we don't want to a blue on blue or
a fracture side or friendly fire. So yeah, we study
that thing and memorize it and know where every piece
(26:10):
is on that ground. Is that ground force starts to maneuver.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
As a person, Greg, how did it change you being
a pilot? I've asked the soft guys. Because of the
training they went through, seer training, buds training, everybody seems
to have grown a lot. They realize you have to
overcome obstacles. You got to get away from complaining and
start solving problems. How do you think being a pilot
(26:37):
in that kind of a setting changed you?
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Well, man, that's a tough question. Doc. Oh no, I
don't know. But aviators in general are just you know,
we're I'll say this Army Special Operations or Special Operations
as a whole. It draws a man. We're all type
(27:02):
A or A plus as our docs called us personalities,
and you know, we all have a very common goal,
we have a common bond. It's a tribe. And but
I mean as far as just being a human being,
I don't I don't think it changed me that much.
(27:26):
I mean, I was brought up in a good Christian
family and I you know, with good core values and
you know, hard work, hard work will set you free. Right,
That's true. And it's as my career path through the
Army advanced and I went from different different units to
(27:48):
Special Operations, it was yeah, I had the best commanders,
and I had the best pilots and crew, chiuse and
armament dogs and armament personnel. We call them dogs, and
uh yeah, we you know, we have one common goal,
and that's to complete the mission successfully, and we look
out after each other. But I really can't think off
(28:11):
the top of my head. Like I said earlier, that's
a hard question. Nobody's asked me that.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
How about this. Well, we'll get back to that one.
Maybe this will stir some of the thought process. But
when did you get out.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
Two thousand and eight? I retired two eight. But combat
changes changes. It's just there's nothing glorious about it. It's
just the nastiest, ugliest thing a human can ever experience. Yeah,
(28:45):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
I'm assuming did you see casualties that you shot up?
You were able to see that from the air where
you flying too fast to even pay attention to it.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Hundreds of them?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
You saw hundreds of them? Yes, sir, that'll change their
mindset too.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Really close and we shoot bad guys with our M
four rifles. So I mean we dropped pangrenades on them
when we fly over them.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Really?
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Oh yes, yeah, we got in trouble one night doing that.
I'm very happy with us about that. We're the six
guns and like one of the Delta startant majors set
in the talk that night, he stood up and said, hey, sir,
it's B Company six guns. They're just trying to kill somebody.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Now. In two thousand and eight, I'm assuming when did
you start again flying?
Speaker 3 (29:41):
And I started flying in eighty nine. I went to
flight school. I was enlisted prior to that. Came in
in eighty six. I was enlisted. I was at the
hundred and first and three two seventh Infantry for three
years where I went to flight school.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I guess my question would be did the technology change
a lot in the last five years in regards to
the helicopters.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Yes, sir, it we really started to see it. And
keep in mind that the one sixtieth we test a
lot of equipment, and I mean from the gear the
pilot wearers, to the helicopters, to technology that comes out
to aircraft's survivability equipment. And when we find something that works,
(30:29):
we push it down to the big Army, to the Marines,
to the Navy, to all the DoD So you know,
the regiment as a whole is somewhat of a test facility.
And but yeah, our helicopter that the Little Bird, the
A eight six and the MH six. We went from
the J model to the M or MIC model and
(30:52):
we got a six bladed rotor system or four bladed
tail rotor system. That changed from five to to five
blade main main roader, two blade tail rot and then
it was a glass cockpit in the new a H
m H six Little Bird. But yeah, we yes, we
saw a lot of technological advances, and of course drones
(31:14):
were coming on in that time period, and you know,
they're a huge, huge tool for the battlefield that they
saved lives, and yeah, it's one you know, one less
team or squad or whatever the case may be, that
we don't have to put out there and we can
we can remotely put eyes on the target and get
intel before you know, humans operators go in there and
(31:38):
hit the target.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
It's interesting. I know I did an interview. Well, when
this comes out, it may not be the same, but
it was a few months back Lieutenant Colonel Phelps and
he was the head of one of those drone operations
for the drone unit. I'm not sure how to how
he phrased it. But it's really amazing to hear. It's
(31:59):
like college behind that too, because you wouldn't think there
was much going on, but there is, because they're actually
seeing technology improving. You can actually see the individuals much
more clearly now than you good years back. Yeah, is
there anything in the new technology when you were getting
ready to retire? Anything? You say, God, I wish I
had that when I started.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
I mean in the little bird community, in the mh
ah six community, you know, we pretty much had steam
gauges what we call them, you know, altimeters and you know,
gauges that you looked at, analog gauges, not digital. And
the new aircraft. Some of us older guys were like,
(32:44):
you know, I don't want all this stuff. I want
to look at a gauge. I don't want to look
at a screen. And I got to touch many buttons
to make the mini guns go or the rockets go
or you know, in the past, it was just flipping
a switch up and we had you know, we were
hot engauge. But yeah, there was a learning curve, and
you know, the younger guys they were just eating it
(33:06):
up because that's a generation, you know, they do whatever
they do play Xbox. I don't know that it was
an easier transition for them, but as far as you know,
being a being an aviator in that unit, I mean,
they are the best pilots on the planet bar nude,
and their standards have never gone down. And I just
(33:28):
love each and every one of them. I prey for
them every night, every day. And uh yeah, it's but
there has been a huge technological jump since you know,
nine to eleven. I mean we watched it. We watched
that happen physically literally, because we would come up with
a good idea or Halot's you know, with this work.
(33:51):
Can we do this better? Just to make us more
efficient on the battlefield.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
I want to do something too, folks. I'm gonna read
you a little bit of an excerpt. I'm the book
because it's really especially the first few pages. The prologue
is powerful, but there's just so much about it. I'm
going to read you the intent for writing the book,
he says, he provides a story for my children and grandchildren,
my family. Number Two, if you're a veteran, I wanted
to help you heal. Number three, I feel it is
(34:18):
important for the next generation of warriors and number four,
I want to make the reader aware of the struggles
that all veterans and first responders face PTSD, he says
A chief cocher started a journal on nine to eleven.
I wrote about every mission for eight years and and
kept the journal in my gun safe Geo. As he
mentions George Hand, I am thankful and grateful that you
(34:39):
decided to attack this mission with me. You know, Kyle,
thank you for pushing me over the years and for
your inspiration. But it's amazing that when you restarted reading
the stories of what you went through and what you saw,
it's just so much going on it doesn't even seem real.
Did you ever look back at the book and look
at it and say I really did that?
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Or every day?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Every day?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Yeah? And again, you know I was put in these
places by design, I guess, or God's path for me
that you know, in order to be there to help,
or maybe I'll figure it out when I get to
heaven or somebody will explain it to me. So it
(35:24):
was a heck of a ride. But again, I you know,
the prologue is the meat of why I wrote that.
And oh, as of a couple of weeks ago, I
donate one hundred percent of everything, and.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
You were saying, all the proceeds go where.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Yes, right, I donate one hundred percent of proceeds, and
we've donated over forty thousand dollars to date to offer
to help my brothers, sisters, their families, their It's yeah,
it's it's really cool. I mean I've sold I've sold
three books. One went for one thousand and thirty three dollars,
(36:08):
one went for eight hundred dollars, and one went for
five hundred dollars. Oh wow, yeah, to to I donated
the fundraisers. So yeah, people have just it's been it's
been awesome. Really yeah, that's well. So my buddies are like,
you're crazy. You know, God's planning for mee. So you know,
(36:34):
I want to help folks out.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
You know. It's it's it's it's interesting. I hear you
saying that. It's it's bittersweet for me. It's as sweet
as you're doing that. It's an awesome thing, but the
bitterness is that I wish the government would to do
more themselves, you know, to be loyal to the individuals
who sacrifice their lives or put their lives on the
line everybody else.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
Not during their time in service, but after they leave.
And that's that's why I chose chapter one that character
that story for that because I want to grab that reader,
and you know, it's about my best friend taking his life.
He was a delta operator of Virus Border for many
(37:16):
many years. Yeah, been there, done that. Read the book?
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I hate the book? That was? That was that, Leon Hanson?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Yes, Sir mass Sharpon Hanson.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, that was a tough That was a tough read too.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I guess I'm sorry, No, I said, yeah, man, it
was that was that was a tough one.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
My condolence is the last few minutes together here. I
haven't touched upon this is I haven't heard about it.
But since you're flying high in the heavens a lot
during your career, did you ever have a moment where
you said, man, what is God doing? Why is he
doing this? Oh?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I have a lot, Yeah, I can't count them.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Does it ever challenge your faith?
Speaker 3 (38:06):
No? No, never, never, never, never to help.
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Out there to have a belief in God and.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Christian that you better believe it. Yeah, that's what carried
me through my career in the army. And then you know,
and I talk about some very deep, dark times after
I got out of the army and my my failures,
you know, And that that's why I really did not
(38:34):
want to write about these personal things that happened with
me for the whole world to read. And I mean,
I think, I'm well, I just I'm a humble guy,
and you know, I just want to live my life
and love my family and contribute to society. But I
just And I was like, but my wife and I were, Eedie.
(38:57):
We were sitting there one evening and she goes, hey,
here's how I want you to think about this. Think
about writing this for your children and your grandchildren. This
is your legacy. Boy. I I could grasp that and
hold it. Very next morning I started writing, and eighty
(39:19):
nine days later I had the manuscript written. How long
eighty nine days?
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Holy cow, geez, give.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Me a mission, doc. And I'm I'm yeah, I'm like
a junk yard dog.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
And somebody's going to get you to the right book
number two with that speed, you better watch out.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Well. In another we have a children's book that's published
Me is for veteran Yeah, yeah, I worked with my
daughter and another friend of ours, and yeah, that's that's
out there. So yeah, we're all very excited about that,
honored that they asked me to come on board and
help them with it.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
So what's the age range for that.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Oh, from just starting to read to goodness gracious to adults. Yeah,
we talked about the Constitution, we talked about core values.
You know, something's not taught anymore. But what's really cool
about that children's book is that we've got the oh
(40:26):
dog on it. The QR codes. There's a QR code
on every page. It's alphabet, you know, like B for
battle or C for constitution. Okay, every page has a
QR code. You scan that QR code, well, it takes
you to the website and it gives you more and
more information about it. So we wanted to cool. Yeah, yeah,
(40:49):
that was really cool what they came up with. So
that was pretty exciting.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
So our last I guess our last five or six minutes,
we'll hit two big questions. Well, one big question, one's
kind of the same question, but how did you adjust
the civilian life? There was a fast transition, was it
a very slow process? How was that for you?
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I still haven't adjusted, Yes, sir, Well I'm better than
I was in two thousand and eight. But yeah, you
hit the ground and you know, all of us that
serve regardless if you retire, you just do your four
or six or eight year hitch. And it's uh. At
(41:30):
that time, I personally the military does not do a
good job of transitioning these guys out of the out
of the military. And pretty much, you know, the big
Green machine is what we call. It continues to roll
and it is what it is. But you know it
that opportunity is there and you just have to keep
(41:52):
driving forward and never never ever quit everything. And yeah,
it's it is tough, man. It really was for family life,
for my life, and you know, I have my own business,
my own company, and I just you know, kept doing
what I knew to do. And yeah, it was it
(42:14):
was all good. But I talked to you know, my
path now is to help veterans and help these folks
that come out or they're having problems or issues or
whatever the case, that you know, I can lead them
and mentor them down the right path to help them out.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
That's a great thing I have found out. It was
a lot of the soft units where their Navy seals
are Green Beret or have a huge bond.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
Oh, yes, sir, Yeah, that's what I miss most. That's
what all of us missed is the camaraderie and and
your tribe. You know, your brothers, because dog gone, those
those those relationships making combat or like none other. We're
we're family, yes, sir.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Yeah, that's the great thing. I mean, I admire the
work you're doing, the work the Kyle does and other
individuals as well as you continue to keep everybody in
contact in some capacity.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yes, you have to, especially when you know, after this
thing went down to Afghanistan, a lot of guys got
got sad, and I man, I talked to a bunch
I did you know. I was angry for a couple
of days, and I prayed about it a bunch and
so then I switched gears to help my buddies that
(43:32):
were I mean, they were really down. I'm like, hey, listen,
and this is what I you know, I came up with.
I'm like, look, they sent us over there in two
thousand and one, most elite force on the planet with
Fifth Group. They were up north, we were down south,
and we did our jobs, and we did a good job,
(43:54):
and we almost brought everybody home and every every guy
said that too. They're like, oh, going, I wish i'd
talked to you a week ago. You're right, You're right,
I said, you know, there's nothing we can do to
affect it, or what we did was was good. We
did a good job.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
So I'm absolutely right. That's really what matters. Right, you
did the job when you had to do it, and
bet it was successful at the time.
Speaker 3 (44:24):
Was successful. We met the commander's intent, which it was
the President of the United States and in the end
state that he had put out for us. Yeah, we
did in nine weeks what the Russians couldn't do in
eight years. Think about that.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Oh yeah, that was a big mess over there to
the days of the mujahidin. Yes, sir, Yes, sir, that
was a big ordeal too. Well, Greg, amazing stuff. I mean,
I can keep you here all day talking about this stuff. Yeah,
this is so fascinating and you've seen so much. And
(45:01):
I know I missed a lot, you know, because again,
my my naiveness doesn't allow me to be able to
capture everything. I'm not sure what would happen up there
in the helicopter. When's the last time you flew a helicopter?
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I stay current. Yes, really, yes, sir. Yeah, we here
in Graham, Texas. Young County Warrior Ranch is a nonprofit
we have here. We conduct a helicopter hog hunt every
year in March. Oh yeah, we had. We had one
hundred veterans here this year. Oh it was, it was awesome.
It was.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
That sounds cool.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
When we do another one, a big one in Ennis, Texas,
helicopters for heroes. We do that one in February. Yeah,
so I yeah, I stay current. Friend of mine own
is a little bird, so I get to go play
around in it and fond memories. Fond memories.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Are you dropping water balloons instead of grenades now?
Speaker 3 (45:53):
Or five five six bullets? We shoot pigs out of
the helicopter? Really, yes, we do. Yeah, they're terrible. They're
terrible here. They calls millions and millions and millions of
dollars worth of damage every year pigs. Yes, yes, sir, yeah,
look it up. Look it up. I think the last
(46:16):
two years ago, last one I saw was forty two
million dollars worth of damage just in the state of Texas.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
Holy cow.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Oh it's terrible, man, that's r.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I'm gonna have to look that up. I want to
find out what's going on.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
With the pigs.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah again, folks, it's Deathweights in the Dark dot com.
You get the book there. You can also get it
on Amazon. Deathweights and the Dark six Guns don't Miss
by Greg Cooker c ok e R. The other book
is V for veteran So if you have children, I
highly recommend the book. It's a good way to get
them started. Thank you so much, Greg again for taking
(46:52):
the time.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
Thank you, Doc. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Sure, dude, thank you very much. I appreciate it again.
Thank you so much for yours. I know how much
it means, and I really appreciate that. Folks share, subscribe,
hit that like button. You know we like it.
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