WE CHAT WITH WITH NAVY SEAL MARK GREENE

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stories of Special Forces Operators Podcast. Listen to
some of the bravest and toughest people on the planet
share their stories, Sit back and enjoy.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back everybody. Today, we have a great guest to
Mark Green, and he just wrote a book. It's coming
out actually thinking about a week. It's called Unsealed, The
Navy Seal's Guide to Mastering Life's Transitions. Seals are notorious
for telling riveting stories without a shred of emotion. There's
good reason for that. They've been trained to keep their
emotions at bay, to be hard so they can accomplish

(00:46):
seemingly impossible missions. Rarely do you find a Navy Seal
who's willing to be vulnerable and share from the hearts.
This is one of the reasons I'm excited today to
have Mark Green on the show to discuss not only
his career in the Navy Seals, but alst of his book.
And you know, I provide a little bit of a
psychology bent to these interviews. It's probably why you listen
to me because it's a little different than everybody else,
and I really appreciate it. So I can't wait to

(01:07):
get started before we do, you know, what to do. Folks,
make sure to share, subscribe, hit that I like, but
you know, we like it. It's not waste any more time.
I'm going on the show Mark Green.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Welcome, sir, Hey, how are you doing very well?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
How are you?

Speaker 3 (01:20):
Can't complain We're doing pretty well. It's it's been a
frenzy of signing books and getting them out. So yeah, yeah,
my book people were telling me the numbers and I'm
just like, oh, I didn't I didn't know that. I
thought this because I said we had one hundred and

(01:41):
fifty one on the pre sale and the first hundred
orders get a signed copy. And I told her we'd
already hit one fifty one. She's like, some authors never
at one hundred, that's true. And I did not know that,
you know, I just showed up and I was like,
all right, yeah, write a buck. Uh yeah, get on
social media and not knowing the space, which is kind

(02:01):
of not atypical for how kind of experience life. But
the surprises are pretty good. Now.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
You guys get razzed a lot, I know, by the
Berets and the Delta guys for being more of a
I don't know if Goggin started that or what going
on there. But you guys get razzed a lot about
being on social media and books and stuff. Did that
ever creep in your mind when you decided to write
the book, or.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
It did initially until I realized that when I was young,
Marcinko had a book, Dick Couch had a book, Carlos
Hatcock had a book. Unless you know, people grow up
in this social media where everything's on the computer. Before
then you had to read about it. So I think

(02:48):
it's more of the stigma of you're supposed to be
a quiet professional. But at some point the guys in
my generation I bet ninety nine percent of them read
a book to kind of satisfy the urge to learn
as much as you can about this thing that there
was not a whole lot of information about. So I

(03:10):
think people are we come in it's like, don't you
write books and don't you talk about what we do?
As opposed to okay, it makes sense to write a
book to get the next generation interested in what you're doing.
Social media has made things a lot different, but the
written words just different. You know. Some people just like
to read and take notes on the side of the book,

(03:31):
or there's something tangible about holding a book in your hand,
reading it, and the information has got to get out there.
And but I was pushed to the point of the
gentleman who sponsored the books like, Okay, I'm sick of you.
Here's your four ghost writers. Pick one. It's already funded,

(03:54):
go write the book. So the kid me was like, well,
you're not the boss of me, and then I was
like but then I was like, well, okay, I had
a new mission now. So I really wanted to do
something I was proud of. And the book's not so
much about seals and missions and all that stuff. It's
more about mindset and then the mindset that has to

(04:19):
shift as you're transitioning that you're kind of not ready for.
So that's the approach I took. And yeah, I just
I just wanted to hit a different audience. And I
wanted to hit an audience because I was losing. All
of us have lost so many friends to take in
their own lives that I wanted to really not only

(04:40):
hit the veteran, but as service members transition, or as
anyone transitions, it really affects the family unit. So it's
the spouse and the children. They're also transitioning. So if
dad is not ready to receive the message, maybe mom
or significant other reads and says, hey, you're experience. What

(05:01):
I just read is what you're going through. Or the
kids will say, hey, Dad, Mom, what I just read
in this book seems a lot like what you're going through,
you know. So it's a holistic approach, not just to
the service member.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
That's great. It's interesting too. I know one of the
more Heartfeld interviews I did. I think it was the
Delta guy of whole things because they're made differently than
everybody else. Yeah, super nice guy. But I remember him
talking about and I don't know if this was your
experience too. We're going to find out a little bit.
But I know he was gone ten to eleven months

(05:37):
of the year for the first seven years of his
children's life, and when he came back it didn't dawn
on him till a few months later that it's like,
holy crap, I'm not their dad, and their eyes they
don't know who this guy is. I missed birthdays, I
missed events at school, festivities, things, holidays, and it really

(05:58):
rocked him when he realized they don't look at me
that way. Necessarily they look at me as a guy
who's just moving back into the house, kind of like
a visiting Yeah, yeah, did you go through that or
I don't know if you have.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, so our op tempo and you know, I there's
not a lot actually about the Tier one guys, and
I respect them to the point where I don't even ask,
you know, they they talk very little about what they do,
and just out of respect them, I'm not going to
kind of breach that protocol. So I knew they were

(06:32):
going a lot, because you know, Tier one guys are
some of my neighbors. But I had to consciously make
a choice too at some point, leave work on time,
or if there was free time, take the time early,

(06:53):
go to I tried not to miss any practices, really
try not hard to not miss any games, but when
you're on a six on the plum, you can't avoid that.
But when I was home, the teams are strangely really
good about it. Hey, if you have free time, do
your free time away from here. So I didn't miss
a game. I really made conscious efforts to do things

(07:18):
with my kids. And when my daughter was almost too
is when I won my first employment and I was like,
what am I gonna do with this, damn kid, I
don't I don't know what I'm doing. So it was
a Wednesday, and I said, Okay, get all dressed up
and we're going on a date. Where do you want
to go? And of course it was the park. So
we went to the park and yeah, I got some

(07:39):
popcorn or something like that. It was, but it was
just time. So every Wednesday, as often as I could,
she and I went and did something and she just
came home. She's twenty five now, and we still make
time to go on a date and hang out and
catch up. So and I did that with all my
kids in different ways. But because I didn't want to

(08:01):
be a visitor, I wanted to be present, which is
not always possible. I really made a really conscious effort
to stay connected with my kids.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
I'll never forget it. I'll never got it. That's a
huge thing. And it's so funny because when they're so little,
you don't need the gadgets, you don't need this stuff.
It just spend time with mom and dad.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
And she went slide. She went on a slide probably
one hundred times. Yeah, did you go down a couple
of times?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
That's like their favorite thing. Even if you get stuck
on it, let me ask you this. This is now
you're taking me to a different direction. But I know
I want to ask you what motivated you eventually to
get into the Navy Seals. But this is a question
I don't think I've ever asked anybody. Actually, you might
be the first, and I've interviewed over one hundred of you.

(08:56):
But oh well, that's why I say, you never know
where these the interviews are going to go. But in
regards to your children, did you ever notice the point
where they realized your job? In other words, he's not
just he doesn't go to the account in his office.
He's not one of these guys that works over here

(09:17):
in a calm office. He's I don't know what he's
doing out there. When did they realize it?

Speaker 3 (09:23):
I think so I would leave the house in Cities
and I would come home in Syvy. So they didn't
see me in uniform for probably fifteen years in my career.
And then they would go to the the Sealed demonstration
every year, but they didn't they didn't put two and
two together that hey, this is what my dad does,

(09:45):
and these guys are jumping out of planes and you know,
just all the stuff that we did in the special
Operations community. And then I retired and they looked around.
I was like, what's all this stuff? I was like, well, daddy,
now yeah. So then they put it together and I
think they're still kind of processing it. My older two

(10:07):
and my son, who's twenty one, he's now starting to say,
oh wow, okay, this is what my dad did. You know.
They they have videos and they write books about in
movies about stuff that my dad did. And he's just
this goofy guy who laughed at his own jokes, and
you know, it did not fit the mold of what

(10:30):
they thought a seal would be. It's just no, he's
just my dad and he's always, you know, present. But
they didn't put the two and two together until retirement.
And then as my son grew up, he understood the
weight of it.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
That's interesting. I guess I'm gonna go into your head
for a minute. Did you ever oh good, this is
not a joke. Really, this is kind of a joking,
kind of comic. But did you ever look at them
if they said something like, oh Dad, you can't do
anything right, or you can't lift that, and you're thinking
you only knew what the hell? I said.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Every dad gets us, Yeah, sometimes they wouldn't. I was like, hey,
you want to shout out the title or what so,
you know, I'd wrestle with my son, and uh, there
was that, there was that dad strength. And and I
told my dad my son one time, and you know,
he's getting chippy, and I said, I said, son, I've

(11:33):
touched you everything you know. I was like, but I
haven't touched everything I know. And he was just like, ah,
like did he? That was enough to like, I don't
want to test what I what I just heard, So
I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and edge my bet
on just leaving, leaving the big guy alone, you know,

(11:54):
because at six two two twenty five, you know, pretty
big guy. So my son, I was like, well, I
don't want I don't think I want that kind of smoke.
So you're a ski te six two Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
And that's funny because I have a lot of the
seals that I've talked to usually this is no offense
to them tend to be on the shorter side.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
And they was like a factory Yeah, five five eighty
five nine, dark haired, dark eyes, one hundred and sixty
six five pounds.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, exactly, because every time I had one and then
I they always didn't mock you guys, but they kind
of we knew they weren't gonna make it. We knew
they were gonna make it. They were just too big,
they were too this. Yeah. Yeah, you're like the first
anomaly I think I've ever had. Was there anything that
was more challenged? Well, I guess I'm gonna jump ahead
and I'll come back. But were there's anything more challenging
for you at six? I don't know what you were

(12:44):
two twenty five there, I doubt it, But was anything
more challenging for you because of the height and the size.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
The obstacle course? You know, I was like a pretzel
going through some of those obstacles, but some of the
more easy because they were designed for small guys, and
I'm just like, oh, this is easy. But then I
got lucky and I was a good runner. And buds
trains are running course. People think it's a swimming course.
It's a running course that you happen to swim in,

(13:11):
But I mean you're running everywhere. So we really got
was the cold water.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Anybody like that one?

Speaker 3 (13:23):
It was you can't escape it, you know, and it's
just everywhere and it's just miserable and everybody feels it
to some degree. But uh man, that cold water, that's
that's that's a that's a that's another level.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Were you down here in Coronado?

Speaker 3 (13:38):
Mm hm yeah, all of us training Coronado for a basic.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Now, did did you grow up? What did you grow up?

Speaker 3 (13:45):
I guess it's the better question. Air Force brat So
born in Alaska and then.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
To tolerate the water.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Then I was from zero to two. You know, I
didn't I would do it. A whole lot of chili
different up there. So so spent a lot of time
in the Philippines, in Japan, Okinawa, and then settled in Ohio.
My family's from Ohio, so kid from Ohio.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Okay, so you do a lot of well, some cold weather,
I guess Philippines definitely, not in Japan, probably not either.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
Yeah, but you know it's cold. Water is just different. Yeah,
it's just different.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
But let's go back to this, I guess. Then backped
a little bit. Your parents motivating factors of air Force.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
Initially I wanted to remember was in second grade. Then I, hey,
what do you want to be And I didn't even
know as say, I want to be an Air Force
man like my dad. But I my mom used to
always preached like, oh, you're going to be something special
one day, and it was in the back of my mind.
So I thought football was going to be my my
special thing. And it ended up I had a career

(14:59):
ending and and I was quarterback and no plan. So
all of a sudden, something else was thrust in the forefront, like, Hey,
you're not gonna do football, You're gonna be professional with
something else. So what is that going to be? And
a friend of mine showed me a video that just
captivated me, and the more it showed how hard it was,

(15:23):
the more intrigued I was. Interesting. Yeah, so it was like,
that's that's what I'm doing. What that guy's doing is
what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
And it's interesting. I know we're going to talk about
this in a minute, because then it sounds like transitions
is part of your book, and that's one of the
transitions you had mentioned. I think it was your injury.
By the way, folks, again, the book is Unsealed, a
Navy Seals Guide to mastering Life's Transitions. It comes out
January twenty fourth paperback as well as Kindle if I'm correct,
and you can get that over an Amazon. Highly recommend it.

(15:56):
So did your dad be grudua that you too? May?

Speaker 3 (16:02):
I think so? But my my grandfather was in the
army and my my dad was in the Air Force,
so it you know it, going into the military was
always an option. So it wasn't like, oh, well, you're
going into the Navy. I was proud to serve. But

(16:22):
then the sibling rivalry. So you know, my dad was
in the Air Force and you know we call that
the chair Force most of the time. But he said, hey,
you know, why don't you want to go into the
Air Force. I was like, well, Dad, they don't on
these seals are in the Navy. And he's like, okay,
you got a point. Wasn't even interested, never interested in

(16:45):
anything army, kay. Then it was just seals and that
was it, and it was a Navy and that was
what I was doing. So so I joined the Navy
and I was in the Navy arm think about six
months before I showed up at the center in nineteen

(17:07):
and a half years is in a special worker community.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Nineteen and a half years, almost twenty years yeah, it's
a long time. So let me ask you this. And
I know in your book you talk about transitions. You
mentioned the sixth if I will leave correctly six different
stages or phases. I think is you have isolation, indulgence, cocooning, emergence, grief,
and resolution. One thing I have learned about Navy Seals,

(17:33):
that's I guess, not different. They're just different conversations with
every operator that I've had conversations with, and you guys
tend to always go to a lot into what you've
learned in your nails. Navy Seals training, especially the mental aspect.
The berets tend to go a lot towards how they

(17:54):
interact with other people. Understanding culture.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Oh that's right, that's right. Yeah, Yeah, the training.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
Ass expect stuff like that, the delta usually what they
do in the missions, and how they're going to go
in and come out and gun warfare and stuff like
that most of the time. And I don't mean to overgeneralize,
and that's just kind of the patterns that I have
seen for some of them, and I have interviewed a
few from different countries, and that's just a whole different world.

(18:21):
That's a very different world there. It's interesting too. But
let me ask you this. I know we're there's always
that we have about an hour, so we have less
than that. In regards to your transitions, When did you
learn about these patterns and di did it apply to
you in your career ending injury? I guess as a

(18:41):
football player, and I think you you even mentioned by
the way I think you said your cousin was me and.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
Joe Green Swan. Yeah, I met Lynn Swan.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Oh did you.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
When I worked at USC He was the a d
out there, yes out yeah, yeah, So I got to
meet Lynn, and uh that was great. But so I
didn't really discover this process that I I woke up
in the middle of the night like two months before

(19:15):
we finished it, and my editor was like, you know,
what's your process? And I was like, I don't know.
And then as I'm reading it and rewriting and rereading it,
it just came to me one night. I was like, well,
I am a introvert by nature, so I naturally want

(19:36):
to isolate, be it, run by myself, go to the
gym by myself, do something by myself. It helps me
to really process. And then you know, as seals and
special operations people. You just gorge yourself for indulge, as
I called it, on information. And I ended up doing

(19:57):
that as I was retiring, like, you know, what's out
there for me? What am I good at? Where I
want to live? With the pay scale, with the longevity,
you know, how are my skills from the military going
to translate into this new job? So you're just like
reading and gorging yourself on information.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
And then.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
My editor was like, so what happens after all that?
And it's like, I feel like I go into a
little cocoon. And that's where I came up, cocooning because
I take it all in. And then kind of my
metamorphosis started to where I had to emerge from that
process with a different perspective or even a different person,

(20:42):
because I knew that I'm not going to recreate that
Navy sealed locker room ever, just like I never recreated
the football locker room. It's just it's just different. And
so I had to emerge a something different and then
I had more of a drive. Yeah, yep, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
Did I cut you off?

Speaker 3 (21:03):
No? No, no, you're fine. So so yeah, the grief part,
that's the part to skip.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Over relate to that, it seemed like, to the emergence,
and then you went to grief. That's interesting.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Yeah, at some point I realized that was mourning the
loss of being a seal. You know, I was a
lout of my adult life and the camaraderie and the
atmosphere and the competition and go into combat with your
with some of the best operators in the world, and

(21:35):
then you've lost people along the way, and you don't
really process it because you know, you got to continue
to train and prep for combat and deployment, so you
don't really get that grief part of it. You touch it,
but you don't really dive into it. And as I
was recovering, I realized I was really sad about the

(21:59):
loss of that, but I never really dove deep into
it until fairly recently. And then after you were like, yeah,
I missed my dad. My dad died of cancer. I
missed my best friend Mike, who had gotten killed in
a parachuting accident. I missed the guys from extortion. Just

(22:19):
you just miss those people, and then you have to
come to grips with that. It's okay to grieve the
loss of or even more in the loss of that
form of life you had, and then you just you
resolve yourself to Okay, this is what's next. I'm working

(22:39):
at USC now, no seals within one hundred miles, now,
what you know? So I really just had to figure
out what next was. But like I said, I did
not quantify this process until very recently. So as you're
going through your career, you may touch you may be

(23:02):
able to isolate a little bit, or you may be
able to get a new hobby and just kind of
indulge on that or cocoon a little bit, but you
don't really dive deep into any one of those processes.
But as I had the time the grind was over,
I really just had the time to dive deep into

(23:22):
all six of them.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
And you experienced the same thing with the football as well,
all little places.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, yep, even though football is like damn, it's a grind,
it's a job, it's not really fun anymore. And then
all of a sudden it's taken away, Like what am
I to do with my time? I'm not going to
be able to throw football anymore. I won't be able
to run forties anymore, I won't be able to take
another snap you know, you won't be able to call

(23:49):
another play, So you're just like I thought. I hated it.
It was a grind, but now that it's taken away,
I really miss it now. So speaking with a lot
of athletes at USC, they were experiencing that too. They
what's next. I haven't interned. I don't know what I'm
good at. I've just been putting thousands upon thousand hours

(24:12):
into this thing that I'm going to go to the
next level on which most of most of us don't,
and they're going to be professional something else.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's interesting because I know, I don't know how many
professions are like special forces. I know law enforcement. A
lot of individuals who go through that career tend to
feel similar. Same thing with athletes. I've interviewed athletes in
the past, and they seem to go through the same
exact phases as you're mentioning when they get injured or retire.

(24:43):
Even I remember, I think you're close to my age.
I'm fifty two. But I interviewed de Larry Holmes, and
when I got to interview Larry, I asked him, you know,
what's what was the biggest what's the biggest challenge for
you up to your retirement and he said, nobody calls
me anymore. And I said, oh, because I missed going

(25:05):
down the center of the ring. There's no calls for fights.
And I said, oh, but you can tell in his
voice that it really hit him. You known't hurt that
it wasn't the Larry Holmes anymore. And it's interesting to
see that because I've seen that with some athletes. I've
seen it now with a lot of special force, isn't it.

(25:25):
You guys have such a unique job because it's so adrenaline,
it's so intoxicating, right.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, I mean you don't really. I don't think I
realized how fun it was. Like some of my stuff
is just dangerous, but like, holy crap, man, we just
did that thing, and yeah, there's there's just a rush
of adrenaline and then you're doing with your buddies and

(25:51):
it's just this really strange, wonderful community. You know, you
got to be a little special to put yourself through
what that selection processes, come on the other side of it,
and then look back and like that was actually pretty fun.
I didn't I didn't know I like that. You know,
So you're you your perception of the world is different.

(26:14):
But when you put when you're going through that grinder
of selection, it's really creating the same guy. So you
have an entire force that is high performers, usually very smart,
unconventional there in their way of solving problems and thinking
thinking through problems. And I think the selection process really

(26:37):
brings that out. And then the career enhances that. So
as you do more time, you get better at at
your job. And then you find, yeah, you can never
beat your dad because he's just got these old old
man muscles and he's got tricks of the trade, you know.

(26:58):
So you find yourself being more at it. You're not
putting as much effort, but you're getting a lot better
because you can anticipate, anticipate the recoils what I call it,
and you can anticipate what's coming next. And okay, I've
seen this before. What if I moved this way or
moved that way. And I remember a gentleman who was

(27:20):
playing for the Cleveland Browns. He was a rookie and
he was coming in on Tom Brady full speed. He's like,
I got him, I got Tom Brady, And he said,
Tom Brady took a six inch step to the right
completely threw him out off the plays, like I might
as well have been in the stands because there was
no chance. But you know, it comes with thousands of

(27:41):
hours and thousands of games and practicing and rehearsing and
knowing your opponent, you know. So when he told me
that story, he's like I had him like I was
gonna stack Tom Brady and then all of a sudden
he was six inches or six miles away. He's like,
you might as well have been in the stands.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
It's like a shalin.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
And it's like it's just six inches.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
You know. It's going to leave me to a story
about because you kind of you mentioned something about how
it changes you a little bit. I can't think you
alluded to that. Before we get to that again, Mark Green. Folks,
the book is unsealed, The Navy Seals Guide, the Mastering
the Lives Transitions. But you mentioned I've always asked this
question to every operators, whoever Mark Green was going into
selection and the Mark Green that came out not after

(28:29):
just after selection, but after the Navy Seals. Obviously you're
twenty years older, so that changes you too. What do
you think the Navy Seals did to change the Mark
Green of twenty years ago.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Well, I'll go back to the beginning. There was an
instructor that I had, and it was, you know, you
build up to getting to Buds and you're okay, you're
doing well at Buds, and then you finish hell week, right,
the crucible, right, And I thought I was going to
show up and open up my shirt and it was
just this s on my chest and I was gonna
grow a cave and stuff. And I didn't feel any different.

(29:05):
And I went up to my instructor. I was like, hey, Constructor,
I don't feel any different. I was like, hey, you're
not going to I was like, what do you mean.
It's like you've been a sealing your whole life, right,
whatever your parents did, whatever your upbringing was, you weren't
gonna quit regardless. So this has always been who you are.
Budget for the people who aren't seals, I was just like, huh, interesting,

(29:30):
that's interesting. I was like, Okay, so I've always been
this awesome, is what I said. He's like, yes, Green,
You've always been this awesome. But what it does change,
it really changes your perspective on how you look at
and solve problems Before you could see something that's like, Okay,
I can't get over this thing. I'm just gonna go

(29:50):
ahead and quit and go another way, as opposed to
you sit and you think I was like, well, I'm
not going to allow this obstacle to stop me from
completing whatever the mission is. Right, So then that becomes
each evolution of the day. You know, I'm not gonna
let this two mouths one beat me even though I
don't want to do it, or I'm not gonna let

(30:11):
the cold get me. So you just learn to persevere
through it. And then you just start persevering through everything.
You start looking at everything in a different perspective as
opposed to it's something that's gonna stop me, like it
may be something that slows me down, but it's not
gonna stop me.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
I'm gonna figure out.

Speaker 3 (30:26):
I'm gonna figure this thing out, whatever this thing is,
and I'm gonna work my way around it. I'm gonna
out smart it, and then I'm gonna continue what I'm
doing and complete whatever mission I'm on, be it buds
or a platoon or deployment, or grad school or being
a parent. And just approach. You're approach looking at and
solving problems differently.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
That's interesting cause I know last podcast was the first
time I ever did it on this show. Hopefully everybody
liked it. But like I said, I've interviewed over of you,
so I was able to compile a psychological profile in
my head of all the different types of operators that
I've interviewed, people who've been there in Vietnam, ACB sogs
to Navy seals to bereatsed Delta to Italy's, Australia whatnot.

(31:15):
And one of the things is the exact thing you
just mentioned. One of the characteristics I kept seeing was
cognitive flexibility, the ability to look at different look at
problems different ways. If this doesn't work, how is this
going to work? And that is not what everybody does. Nope,
most people will look at it and get I don't

(31:37):
know what to do, and if you have the problem
to get stuck, I don't really know what to do,
and some quit. And the interesting thing is I found
that trait that you have was every special app has
the only other one other population so far, and that
was champion athletes, So Larry Holmes, Olympic athletes that I've interviewed,

(31:58):
baseball players, in the pros. So I asked Larry Holmes
and said, what did you feel like when you got
knocked down by Tyson? Do you think it was over? Yeah?
Got upset him, he said over No, I was thinking,
how am I gonna knock his ass out? And I
was like, oh, And then it dawned on me. And
then when I interviewed UFC fighters, same exact thing. I
wasn't worried about it. I just had to figure out

(32:19):
how am I going to win. I'm not in a
good situation right now, but how am I gonna win?
And I think I even interviewed his name. I think
it was Scott Man. Was he the Navy seal? Man?
And may double n I'm not sure. There was a
guy and I interviewed and I apologize if he's listening,

(32:40):
but he was a Navy seal. But he was telling
about a story where he was a very uncomfortable situation underwater.
They had to hide under there for like an hour,
so they had to relieve themselves under there, and he said,
you know, just do what you gotta do. And I'm like, okay,
but yeah, that cognitive flexibility is a very unique quality
you folks have that it's just it's really I wonder

(33:03):
if they pick you like you. It made mestink when
you said your budget instructure, said no, you've always had it,
because it looks like almost you're looking for the diamonds
and the rough kind of thing. These are the guys
we can get to even better.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Yeah, I think and and I don't know if this
is accurate, but when people say I want to be
a Navy seal, so buds is the Navy's way saying,
you know what, I don't believe you. I don't believe
you try this. And what I think Rich Devinni's book
The Attributes really talks about the attribute that environment and

(33:39):
that training and that adversity and how arduous it is
really brings out a certain attribute that's necessary for special
operations community. So when, like I said, when everyone goes
through that grinder, what comes out the end is almost
the same guy with the same attributes, and you just

(34:00):
have a complete fighting force of the same tenacious guy
both physically and mentally, who has been through some of
the toughest training in the world. Beat it. And now
the level of confidence and the level of training and
ability to do that job is exponential. Almost And you know,

(34:24):
as I would all often say that they're the NBA
full of Michael Jordan's right. Every once in a while
a guy can ah, he hit forty and went ten
for ten or something or a quarter for a game
or maybe for a couple of games. But to have
the the ability to be consistent, consistently good is what's

(34:48):
I think, what's hard to come by. So special operations.
You guys are just consistently good. Top athletes are just
consistently good. I mean, if you I think, if you it'sandagdal,
But if you did a study, I bet the people
who are the best at what they do have the
ability to do that whatever that is. But they're consistent

(35:11):
with Steph Curry, consistent for years over a decade. You know,
Tom Brady did it. All the greats did it for
such a long time. But then if you look at
their stat sheet, it's consistent over time.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
That's very true. I know, speaking to an athletic director
who's worked with Olympic athletes, he told me once that
Carlos I can see a room and I know who
has the skills to make it to become an Olympic winner.
But I also know mentally, who the ones who are
actually going to do it? Who the other ones are
not going to do it? Yeah, and one more thing
to the audience, by the way, cognitive flexibility can be

(35:50):
developed by anybody. So I don't want to discourage you.
It isn't like this is only a trait that special
forces have and nobody else can have it. You can't
have it and develop it. I've just noticed at a
higher level functioning as Mark mentions much more consistently than
I've ever seen before. Because you folks are unique. There's
just no doubt about it. You and top notch athletes

(36:11):
when I've interviewed them, when I've interviewed their coaches, Yeah,
they're just different than everybody else. I remember the one
coach I interviewed, he said, you know what I looked for?
He said, what do you look for? He goes big
toes in a butt that wasn't sure what he was
talking about. First, I said, what we were talking about it
and he goes, if you have a big toe, you
can really drive some force. And I was like, oh,

(36:33):
and your butt which responsible for all kinds of actions
and sprinting and jumping. So I was like, oh, so
he has, you know, everybody has their thing. But I
remember talking to this doctor. We were looking at athletes,
baseball players. Most of the champion hitters were twenty fifteen,
twenty fourteen envision. They weren't even twenty twenty, so that

(36:57):
was the weird thing. And athletes football and stuff like that,
bigger toes, huge glue muscles. They were different. Again, you
had your exceptions, of course, your anomally spidwab and things
of that nature, but everybody else there was a cookie
cutter five nine, one sixty five, five ten, And there's

(37:18):
the anomaly is Mark Green at y six. So yeah,
it's kind of funny. You kind of get these cookie
cutters that they're looking for after time mentally, and I
guess physically as well.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, And I talked about this story that you just mentioned.
I had worked with a gentleman who was out of
the NFL combine for the NFL bought it, so it
was regional. And I had worked with this gentleman multiple times,
but it was in Baltimore or Cleveland, and then we
were down in Florida and I walked by him. I

(37:53):
was like, hey, Steve, and he's like, great legs. I
was like, Steve, it's me. He didn't even look at me.
He was just like, good legs, good legs, good legs.
And he whatever. His thing was, you're gonna do okay
in this league, or at least make somewhat of an
impact if he's got good legs. And he and I
had worked together talk for hours and hours. He walked by,

(38:14):
was like good legs, and I was just like, it's
a human in here.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
You know, it's so funny. You mentioned that when he
told me that the big toe in the butt. And
there on, I started looking at people's feet, but give
me in trouble, but the feet up start to look
at and I remember this one guy. I said, I
got to ask you a question because he had really
thick feet. I said, were you an athlete? Yeah, I

(38:39):
played in college football in a couple of years NFL,
so yeah, I figured, and he goes. I thought he
probably thought he was big, but it really was just
his feet. I can see it in the sandals, and
I was like, man, this is some serious feet. Yeah,
so it's interesting. Yeah, I guess I can see why
your coach did that or that guy did that. And
then because they have it in their head they know

(39:00):
exactly what it is.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Let me ask you this. Anything in your during your
twenty years that either surprised you, scared you, made you laugh.
I always try to let you, guys determine what you
want to share. Some guys have shared stories of sadness,
laughter intensity, So I'll let you share. But anything that

(39:23):
you think maybe shaped you a little bit.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
Or I had a near death experience that really changed
my perspective, And I'll tell you about the second one.
So we are after September eleventh, and we're on the
us IS Germantown going towards Indonesia. And you know, this

(39:49):
is the first time where like, no kidding, going towards operations,
we thought. So we're prepping and prepping and then we're
doing well deck operations, which means that we're going ashore
and then recovering back onto the ship. And we are
going and they isolated us from the crew. So oh,

(40:12):
the seams are out and one of the one of
the guys was checking out the sailors veered off course
and right before we got to the to the fantail.
He we yelled at him, say, hey, we're missing the target.
So he jerked the uh the zodiac, and I was

(40:36):
on the side of it and fell right into the
water right near the crops. Yeah, so it was surface
thirty feet down like that.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
Oh sha uh huh.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
So I am kissed first of all. Then what am
I doing in the water? Why am I here again? Right? So,
so I remember just because I'd had one before, so
I remember, I didn't have time to take a breath,
and I was like, I was thirty feet down, couldn't move,
And I tried to swim up and I couldn't move.

(41:11):
So I literally just a little sat back like I
was in a chair like this, and just sat there
like like this mad, like I cannot believe him down
there again, promise I've ever been. So I try to
go up again and nothing, And I knew I was
down here for a while. And the last time I

(41:33):
got in trouble for or I popped my life fest,
but then all the guys gave me shit for it.
So I was like, I'm not gonna pop this dam
life fest, right, So I said, I'm gonna try this
one more time and if I don't start floating up,
then I'll pop my life fast. Because I didn't want
to pop it too soon. I could be under the
ship mhm. So I'm like, all right, I'm gonna try

(41:53):
this one more time. So I start swimming up and
I start making headway and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna
be fine. I finally pop up out of the water.
The ship was a quarter mile away. I was down
there for like tour. I was down there for over
two minutes. And the platoon's like, yeah, you're dead.

Speaker 2 (42:13):
Dead what they thought?

Speaker 3 (42:15):
Yeah, yeah, they thought I was dead. They're like, yeah,
he's not coming back. So I pop up out of
the water and the guys were like, well, look at that,
he did it again.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
Can he walk on water now?

Speaker 3 (42:31):
I was like, man, And as I'm getting lifted out
of the water, you know, the guys are scared for me.
So they make fun of it and like, man, he
might want to get a new job. This water things
not really not really what you need, not really you
jam around here. So so that was like, instead of

(42:51):
panicking down there, I was mad, and then I was like, wow,
I have options, so let's see let's wait and see
what's going on, you know. So that was one of
the things that under normal circumstances, I should have panicked
or or done something other than what I did. And
I was like, well, all right, I'm going to be

(43:11):
here for a few minutes, but oh, I'll pop up
here soon and I want to tell that story. People
are like, wait what. I was like, I swear to God,
this the calmist I've ever been. I sat in the
chair and just waited.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Well, I guess I have to ask this question, because,
like I said, I've interviewed a lot, and I don't
think i've ever had anybody. The biggest Analomi I had
was a Green Beret. When he retired, he left and
became a golf pro. And that to me, like, what
the hell is that. I've never heard that before. Wow,
I've heard of everything else but a golf pro. And

(43:49):
he said, I just wanted to get so far away
from it. That was one chapter in my life, and
I'm starting a whole new I think I might have
to be phrase it. But he started a whole new
jean of writing. So he said that was one book
for one novel. Now I'm want to write some other
type of novel. And I thought, wow, okay, So he yeah,

(44:10):
I was a complete transition. He says, I said, do
you miss it not at all. I love being out
here and playing golf. And it's like, oh wow, So
but to you, I find you so different? Is that
I don't think I've ever been interviewed anybody so calm.
I know you mentioned an introvert, but you really I
would have never guess in a million years you were

(44:30):
a Navy seal. Everybody else is a lot moren't tess.
And this guy's like, really, calm. Did they ever give
you brats for that?

Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah? But after a while I was like, well that's
just Mark, you know. Yeah, and I was a sniper,
so that's kind of a more of a sniper attribute.
And I was fine, and everything is just like, oh yeah,
this okay, whatever whatever's happened. He's like, oh yeah, that's cool,
that's fine. Whatever I'm doing is fine. And if we're

(45:05):
going out and they need to Destiny to drive, like
hey Mark, we drive, yeah, no problem. Or Mark, you
want to tear it up, Yeah, no problem. So it's
just that's just how I've always been. Really. Yeah, I'm
probably more like a surfer dude.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah yeah, yeah, duty just ended up being a Navy
seal somehow.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yeah. But you know, I'm tenacious and driven. You know,
I'm still a seal, but when I'm just hanging out
with my kids, I can. I have the ability to
turn it off, and it's it's just not all consuming.
When I was you know, when I was training stuff,
I was. I took it really seriously and I wanted
to get better every day, but there were other aspects

(45:52):
of life. I wanted an experience. I want to experience
life holistically as opposed to just tunnel vision on what
I'm doing. And then you you all of a sudden,
your kids are like you said, you're You're a visitor
in the house, and once you retire, you're tolerated but

(46:15):
not welcome anymore. And what I mean by that is
I was Markereen Navy seal. On Friday before I retired
on Saturday, I'm just Mark. And you know, you if
you go back and see some of the guys that
at work or something or on the job, they're like, hey,
mark's great to see you bird spinning. We gotta get

(46:37):
going and it's good to see you. But you know,
you're not You're not in it anymore. You're they'll they'll
tolerate you because you were in the brotherhood. But as
far as hey, grab your stuff and hop on the
app with us, it's not that anymore, you know. And
I was okay with that. I understood that my time

(46:58):
in that lifestyle and that job was over, but I
just still mourned it though I did miss it a lot,
missed a lot.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
Laugh guy, But he's felt the same way because once
you get out, you don't have the clearance anymore. So right, yeah,
you're not read it anymore exactly, Yeah, you read my mind.
It's an interesting feel by the way, folks. Again, the
book is called Unsealed and Avy Seal's Guide to Mastering
Lives Transitions, and this is one of the biggest transitions
I think in any special operator's life, so definitely I

(47:31):
must read. If you know anybody in the special ops
community or in the military, I highly recommend it, especially
towards their end. And if they're not, hey, it's not
a bad time to learn about the upcoming transition in
their careers later on in life as well. I guess
in our last couple of minutes together, I forgot to
ask you this psychological profile question. I'm kind of figure

(47:57):
this one out with you, because, like I said, you're
quite different. Are you the youngest or the oldest or
the middle middle?

Speaker 3 (48:03):
Middle?

Speaker 2 (48:04):
Okay, okay, I'm in an anomalous middle. So was there
ten years more than five years apart from either one
of your siblings.

Speaker 3 (48:13):
Yes, I'm seven years older than my sister, but two
years younger than my brother.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Okay, I'm sorry, I sound like a magician of mentalist.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
No.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
The reason I ask is because about ninety percent so
far of the special OP guys, I've been first born
or only which usually typifies as those characteristics. They take
charge and control everything. They're the ones who kind of
have to take the brunt. So it's a very different
kind of mindset. Now, you were kind of in a
weird way, you were kind of the the youngest for

(48:44):
a couple of years to the other one came along
because they came a lot longer, so you kind of
got a little bit of that, But then you ended
up taking over the role of the oldest as well
a little bit.

Speaker 3 (48:55):
Yeah, yeah, like I was. I didn't say into my family.
It was more of father's generation was you know, you
don't question stuff, and I just remember thinking, and I
didn't figure this out till later on, even with coaches

(49:15):
and everything I've done. I let's say I get information
in two dimensions, right, so I ask questions because I
see things in three dimensions. So I'll ask questions and
get the puzzle pieces in and once that third dimension fits,
then it's like, oh, I got it. I understand it.
But until it's explained in a way that I can understand,

(49:37):
then I'm just asking questions and that really annoys the
shit out of people. But I'm like, I'm not being disrespectful.
I just don't understand and the way you're explaining it
to me, I don't understand it this way, but let
me keep asking questions until we figure this thing out.
But once I once I get it, I have it forever.
So when I was going through Sniper school or I

(50:00):
was going through Buds, I knew i'd have trouble swimming.
So I went to this instructor who was in the
middle of having an aneurism, I thought, just having a fit.
So I said, well, I can either back down and say, hey,
I'll just figure this thing out, or I can walk
up and say, hey, I need help on swimming. Do

(50:22):
we have some extra time? And no kidding in the
middle of you know, yelling at the class. I was like, hey, instructor,
I need to come in on and figure out this
whole swimming thing came out of characters like yeah man
Saturday at eight. See. Then I was like, okay, I'll
see that. So I just I knew I needed it.
I identified it, and I was like, okay, I'm not

(50:44):
going to get this on my own, and I need
to pass his course. So this is what you do.
So I just ask and ask and ask him. Then
with my dad, he always thought it was challenging him,
and then I was like, no, Dad, I'm not challenging.
I just don't understand. Help me understand. So I really
had to kind of go in on and figure out

(51:06):
information on my own. So then I just kind of
isolated and I was just I was happy in isolation,
and it really helped in the sale community. I just
drifted towards a different aspect of it. So on the
sniper side, I fit right in.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
N I guess, so right isolating, Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating. Well,
I know we've hit our time limit and I can't
thank you enough.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Mark.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
It's a really interesting conversation. We've got to learn a
lot about you psychologically of course, but a Navy Seal
operator in each and every one of these. And then
hopefully someday in the future I'll compile more about what
I've learned and maybe it'll help you future special op
individuals to understand what's going on.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Yeah, I mean, i'd love to come on for a
part two.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, I'm actually thinking about trying
to create a panel of differ diferent special operators. They
can all tolerate each other because would be different divisions
in different units. But either way, I'm trying to master
will So maybe we'll call you on that and also
include a athlete to look at this this similarity of mindset.

(52:21):
So that's something I'm trying to explore now where I
can have a Beret, maybe a Delta guy, a navyc guy,
have all of you sitting there with a professional athlete,
whether it's a fighter or whatever it may be, and
then start exploring how your mind ticks, because, like I said,
you guys are not the same. And I say you
guys because in the special operating community that's I think

(52:42):
it's ninety nine male. Still.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Yeah, I think there's a woman who graduated the special
warfare combat crewman. Yeah, but all the females who have
tried buds have made it a day or two.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Okay, yeah, that's tough. But in the female in the
sports world, I'll definitely try to get a female athlete,
in which I think I know one who might be
willing to do it, but I think that would be
a fascinating conversations, again exploring the mind of the special ops.
Once again, folks, Mark Green the book Unsealed and Navy
Seals Guide to Mastering in Lives Transitions. Thank you very much,

(53:21):
Mark for joining us. We can hold on for one second.
Thank you everyone for listening. Make sure to share, subscribe,
hit that I like button. You know we like it. Hey,
go catch it. Go catch Unsealed