Darkness Calls | Interview with Bonnie Moore | Podcast - Stories of the Supernatural

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, this is Marlene with Miami Ghost Chronicles and I
want to welcome you to another episode of Stories of
the Supernatural. Wherever you find us, whether it's a video
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(00:21):
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If you're into classic horror, ghost and adventure stories, I
narrate Night Shape Diary and you can find links at
nightshapediary dot com. If scary stories are your bag, and
listening to encounters with cryptids, ghost dog men, and other

(00:41):
weird creatures sends us shure up your spine, then go
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than Fiction Stories tab at Miami ghost Chronicles dot com.

(01:04):
Please subscribe to my newsletter on substack just go to
mppelaser dot com for a link. I want to thank
you for being part of my audience, and I think
you are all wonderful. So how's everybody doing? Good? Everything
is good here today, I decided I want to do
something a little bit different instead of doing the Progressive

(01:27):
Insurance weather thing, you know, like the give you a
due point update, or talking about the pigeons, the chickens,
the guineas, which, by the way, I have to mention
I got like about fifteen eggs out of a burn
pilot was ten feet in the air because this guinea
of all places, that's besides the lady eggs, and they're
just hatching now as we speak. That's why I'm a
little bit flushed because I'm trying to I'm trying to

(01:51):
like look at something at an incubator and you know
all that stuff. So but anyway, that's I'm going. I decided,
you know what, let's do something. I said, you know what,
let me get There's so much weird stuff out there
that I said, why don't I see if I can
find something interesting to look at? And I said, sure enough,

(02:14):
here it is. Okay, this is the story of Animalian,
all right, And basically it's saying mutilated form animals most
likely victims of UFO experiments. And anybody that's seen any
of the shows that I've had, some of them having
to do with UFOs, there's some that specifically talk about,
you know, these cattle mutilations, you know, are they like

(02:34):
there was a horse. This was back in the sixties
out in Colorado. There was saying, no, the poor animal
got struck by lightning, except there was a bunch of
stuff that didn't correspond with an animal struck by lightning.
But anyway, this is what it. This is what this
article says. Several waves of cattle mutilation were reported recently.
A mysterious predator oh Boy, opened animal carcasses, cutting out

(02:56):
their internal organs. The predator was unstoppable, and dead cattle
were found even in zoos. The most mutilations occurred in
nineteen seventy five into nineteen seventy six, the worst of
them found in the US. There were thousands of victims
and Colorado alone three cows on an average were mutilated
on a daily basis. Governor Richard Lamb then stated that

(03:18):
the mutilations were quote one of the greatest outrages in
the history of Western cattle industry end quote. Once buffaloes
were mutilated in Chayanne Mountain that at the time hosted
a US Air Force defense station. The predators were not
stopped by thousands of soldiers patrolling the area. Bloodless animal
carcasses remained a challenge that the American could not stand

(03:39):
up to. In two thousand and nine, cattle mutilations came
back a marcheth that dead cow was found near the
Purgatoire River by Mike Jorant, a cattle rancher. She's an
older cow, so I thought she may have died. I
spotted her near the purga River bottom, and when I
looked at her, she was on her side and it
looked a little odd. When I took a closer look,

(04:00):
I saw that her utters had been removed. Durant said,
it appeared as if the utters were cut off with
a laser. There was no blood on or around the carcass,
and the decisions were perfectly round. Two weeks later, Jim Garreon,
a rancher from Wallsenburg, Colorado, also found a dead cow
with its utters cut off. We searched and searched, and
we could not find blood on the ground or on

(04:21):
the cow. I just can't understand how anyone could surgically
remove a part from an animal and not spill some
Bloody said. Absence of blood is one of the characteristics
of an invisible forces attacked. After opening carcasses, veterinarians found
out that there is not a single drop of blood
in them. It is very difficult to bleed out an
animal because when arteries are cut open, veins close and

(04:42):
hold the blood back. The blood can be removed by
pumping salt solution through arteries, but it's difficult to do
in a field. It is the strangest thing I've ever seen.
I cut the hide and the legs just fell off.
All bones were broken. Miller said. This happens when a
mutilated animal is thrown down from above. There were a
number of cases when ranchers found carcasses in the trees,

(05:04):
hanging off power lines, or other places where cow cannot
get on its own. Traces of animals in the snow
or mud would suddenly disappears that the animal were lifted
in the air. Coyotes and vultures would not touch the carcasses.
Miller said about ten years ago he found another one
of his cows mutilated that cow had its ears, tongues, eyes,
and reproductive organs removed. I really don't know what it is.

(05:26):
I think maybe it was a UFO according to the circumstances.
That's what it seems like. Miller said. Okay, And then
it goes on the articles not that long, and it
is that they're saying that there's other places outside of
the United States that have this, And I thought, I
thought it's really interesting because I had never heard that
part about there being zoo animals. I had always heard

(05:52):
the cattle thing. I had never heard that before. Okay,
So anyway, my thing is this, what do you guys think?
Put the comments down. I mean this, like I said,
in comparison the nineteen seventies they had a lot more
cattle mutilations than they do, but they still occurring. Same thing, animals.

(06:17):
All the parts that are taken are valuable meat wise,
cattle wise, from the animal surgical precision and the fact
that predators give them a wide berth. You know, a
lot of these rane as a matter of fact, some
of them have like said, hey, comes with having the
I know I'm gonna lose these cattle in this strange way.
And sometimes what they'll do is you'll just drag it

(06:38):
if they have to, if it's too close to where
they're at, and let it disintegrate because they know that
predators won't even you know, help them dispose of what's
left there. So put your comments what you think really
is behind this all this stuff? Like you know how
many I don't know how many cattles do the aliens
need to dissect? It makes you think. And but if
you really want an answer to that, there's an I

(07:00):
did with a doctor Rappaport that he talks something about
the brains of cows that's used. As far as what's
the easiest or simplest way is some type of P
three dish solution that can be used? It's more convoluted.
I'm giving a but that might be part of it.
But I think I'm about stumped as anybody else about

(07:23):
what it could be. And I would like to hear
what you guys think. And I mean, let's face it, nowadays,
it could be anything. Now let's get onto the good part.
The good part is who's the guest today at Stories
of the Supernatural. This is our first time here. Her
name is Bonnie Moore. She's a semi retired attorney, accountant,
management consultant in Golden Girls Network Founder. She's a former

(07:46):
senior consultant at a CPA firm in Washington, DC. She
developed financial processes and investigated improprieties and governmental organizations. Her
self help book, How to Start a Golden Girl's Home,
earn widespread media coverage in two thousand and fiftyeen. An
avid traveler, Bonnie has explored remote corners of the world,
from archaeological digs in France to Safari and South Africa.

(08:08):
In twenty seventeen, she retired to Utah to be near
family and pursue her dreams of writing, resulting in her
debut novel, Buried Bones, which is a slow burn mystery
wrapped in emotional complexity and carried by a deeply human
cast of characters. It follows Maggie Anderson, a retired prosecutor
who stumbles into the murder case of Audrey Stillman in
a small Utah town. When the victim's ex husband Ben

(08:30):
is immediately seen as the likely killer by locals, Maggie
is pulled into a vigilante charge that amosphere her back
to a prosecutorial past and her ghosts. She digs deeper
with a small, tight knit investigative team. But in folds
is not just a who Done It? But a layer
tale of justice, love, loss, and second chances. Help me
welcome her. How are you doing today, Bonnie, I'm really good. Well,

(08:56):
let me tell you you. You know, I have your book.
I haven't started yet, but I was reading some of
the pages and it looks like a great novel. It
looks like and what you're drawing, I guess off your
own life experience, right as far as the characters and
things like that, to some extent.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yes, Maggie lived in DC and then she retired to
Utah kind of thing, Maggie, Maggie sees ghosts though, But
I and I haven't done that.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Okay, okay, but you know what, that's an interesting layer.
Let me as far as as far as it's not
strictly like Who's Done It? Like a procedural kind of
like a novel. It's basically what you're saying, is what
that she's she's psychic or a medium or something like that.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
She's not quite that. She's she's a very intuitive person
in her career. Okay, it was a prosecutor of X crimes, Okay,
So that's basically she spent many years in San Francisco
and then she went to d C. All right, so

(10:11):
she prosecuted sex crimes and then she she had a
bad situation. One of her innocent suspects was killed by
vigilantes and she ended up retiring.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
He went to Utah thinking she'd just get away from it.
So the story starts out, and I'm not sure how
far you've gotten with it, but the story starts out
that she accidentally meets a guy who is being accused
of murdering his.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Ex wife, right, becauseiness sounds like this is a small town,
like you know, it's not a big city, so everybody
knows everybody else's business, kind of like more familiar.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Absolutely, yes, it's a it's a mountain.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
Town, right, exactly.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
There's a an enclave of pioneer cabins, okay, where the
victim lived. And so Maggie is drawn to this guy
who says he's innocent, and the whole town is against him.

(11:18):
They they really want him convicted. They're determined to convict
him because he came out as gay and divorced his
wife and moved to Salt Lake City.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
But they're thinking that he was the one that murdered
his wife though.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
The body buried behind one of the cabins. Okay is
where it starts out. So he's been buried for almost
four years and somebody's building a new cabin and they
find the skeleton.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
I get it. Okay.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
So he's being accused because he divorced her and moved away.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
He's like a motive kind of she is always a suspect. Right,
let me ask you did you And I don't know
if it's as far as do you look at the
like as far as current you know, crime cases of
this type, as far as to draw an idea or
you know, how did you come up with it? As

(12:15):
far as you know to put this person in in
this because you know that character. You know, it's like,
this is a big problem. You're you're being accused of
murder in a small town where everybody like forget you know,
jury of your peers is like, I really am I
really going to get that? Forget it?

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Well? I was taking it. I've always wanted to write,
so you know, my yeah, thing that I'm doing now
is writing, right, And I was taking a class in
how to write a murder mystery.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
I see, okay, okay, we all.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Had to have a project, and I seam up with
this location, and then I just started putting characters into
the story.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
Okay. And she's got a team, she's got out as
far as your heroin, she's got people around her that
are helping her out.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
It ends up being a team. Right. So she's she's retired,
so she's not officially law enforcement, but she knows law
enforcement right right, right, brings three of her friends in
and then they saw they actually solved the mystery.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Okay, exactly right. So but it's not like lonesome. You know,
she's out there like, okay, I've got people that you
know that that that help her out to solve the mystery.
That's really great and God knows because and the reason
why I ask is that nowadays there's I don't know,
because you know, now the thing with DNA, they're solving

(13:44):
so many of these really cold cold cases that you found.
They're never going to figure this out all right in
this case too, Oh Okay, there we go. I hadn't
gotten there yet.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
That's further further In the first thing that happens is
Maggie wants to see the cabin where this body was found. Okay, sure,
she's going to get involved, she's she's curious. So she
and her her friend who grew up in this in

(14:17):
this neighborhood, in this cabin klade, they walk down to
the cabin. Okay, and that's where she sees the ghost
of the victim.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, ah, all right, the plot victens.
I like that.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
So she sees the ghost and she's she's really shook up.
She's always been very intuitive and she does things to
feel connected to her victims, but she's never seen a
ghost before.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
So she sees the ghost and it kind of freaks
her out a little bit, but she she feels like
the ghost is encouraging her to take the case.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
I see, Okay.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
So that's that's where the paranormal comes in.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
So in other words, it's not just a question of
defending this guy, it's finding out who really killed her.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yes, and they do solve that, yes.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Okay, Okay. Getting back to which I hadn't gotten there yet.
With the DNA and nowadays, just about every week you
hear about some thirty forty fifty year old case cold, cold,
cold case that sometimes not only do they find out
who the perpetrator is, but they actually get to name
who the remains belonged to, you know, because the DNA

(15:35):
is getting so advanced, and of course if your family
or somebody has, you know, they kind direction to look
at and they can compare if there's a family member,
they can kind of narrow it down. Unfortunately, pardon me,
Oh no, no, yeah, I know. I look at this

(15:55):
and it's like forty years ago, we had for forty
years just things and some they have suspects, but that's it.
The only I would say sad thing about it is
that a lot of the times the perpetrator, the killer,
the is that dead or they're really really old, you know,
But a lot of times they and sometimes you they
even after the fact, they end up going to prison

(16:19):
for some other crime, you know, after they committed that,
and then they end up going to prison and they
pass away, and it's like, okay, justice but not really justice.
But I'm thinking, well, at least for the family, you
get to know what happened to this person who sometimes,
for all they know, they might have just dropped out
off of sight. They don't have any idea. What happened
to them?

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Exactly exactly?

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yes, I think that's that. The thing with the DNA
is is very it's very convincing. How's that?

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yes. In fact, doing some research, I ended up buying
a book written by the guy who first brought DNA
into the launch mm hm you know how he ended
up using it to solve a case, and that's how
law enforcements started working, uh, started using it. But it's

(17:14):
come along ways even from that.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Sure, from what I understand before, like if it was
like let's say the remains were really deteriorated or whatever
proof they had, they couldn't really use it. And they've
gotten so good that they can get like some DNA
even from remains that are very very old.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Oh yeah, they can. They can get DNA off of.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Mummies, right exactly. That they they they're they're able to
do the thing. But before it was like, you know,
it had to be a fresher and little by little
they've just gotten so much better about getting good uh.
And then of course it's tracking back, you know, Like
I said, sometimes they have an idea, sometimes they have
no idea who who who the victim is of? Much
less who the perpetrator could be. But sometimes at house

(18:03):
when you know who the victim is, it's like, okay, less,
Like I say, you know, some of these crimes are
stranger and stranger. In other words, it could have been anybody.
You know. You don't you don't have the regular motives
like love, revenge, hate, money. You know that. You think, okay,
let me look at who's around this victim exactly. You
know it was somebody that say, a psychopathist, I need

(18:25):
to kill somebody, and you were opportunity, you know, the
opportunity presented itself and beyond the crime, there's no connection
between us, you know. So yeah, I think that. Uh
that's why I'm just about every week I look up
and I read some case of finally something that's been solved. Now,

(18:46):
let me ask you in this in your story, does
she is she like an analytical person that has a
hard time coming to terms that she's actually being able
to see something as analytical as a ghost or how

(19:07):
did she feel about that?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Well, she's very analytical, you know, she has she's an
attorney who who investigates and solves crimes. She's also very
she's intuitive, she's empathetic. One of the things that she
developed when she was prosecuting people is she would always

(19:32):
try to find something that belonged to the victim, okay,
something that she could touch and she could feel the
vibes or the you know, the whatever she could she
could connect victim. And she would carry this around in
her pocket when she was working on the case, like.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
A talisman like I said, yessy commentary and a weird
talisman exactly, okay.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
And she would she would sometimes talk to to whatever
it is, just talk like she was talking to the victim.
And she does this in the story. The victim, the
woman who was killed, had a herb business. She sold
herbs and crafts and things at a small store.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
He would make sachets out of lavender. And Maggie ends
up just accidentally going into that store and she finds
the last item left in the store that came from
the victim and she buys it. So she ends up
with this lavender sachet that she keeps in her pocket.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
So she.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Later on in the story, she's carrying it in her
pocket and they're interviewing people that are suspects and she
puts her hand around it and she kind of silently
talks to the victim and asks, you know what, what
do I need to know about this? Right? It becomes
some she she uses it as a way of connecting

(21:12):
with the victim and trying to understand what happened in
her in the victim's life.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
So let me ask you in this in this case,
she's out, well she was a prosecutor, but she's not
acting in an attorney capacity. So does is the guy's
defense lawyer? Is he helped working with her?

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Or what? What? What do they Well, she actually ends
up being hired by the dision.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh okay, okay, the investigators, So she's okay.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
You know, they don't have enough evidence. He sends her
out to get more evidence, try to figure out what happened.
So she's she's the protagonist. The differ tree is kind
of in the back ground, right right, and she reports
to him and tells it, you know, tells him what's
going on, and he gives her some directions sometimes. But
she's she's the protagonist going around trying to get him.

(22:02):
I mean, this is a four year old murder.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
That she's trying to solve exactly.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
So, so she's interviewing people. She's actually spending time up
in the little mountain town, right, because she lives in
Salt Lake City. Okay, all four of the people on
the team live in Salt Lake City, but they go
up there and work from this case, and she works

(22:30):
closely with the DA. Now, the DA is a very
conflicted person because he's getting a whole lot of pressure
from the town to convict the guy, right, or if
you can't convict him, just make it a cold case
and make it go away. And she doesn't want it
to be a cold case either. She wants So what

(22:51):
is it?

Speaker 1 (22:51):
It's like a little town that is little or no crime?
Is that what it is that these people are not
used to that?

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, you know, five thousand people in the whole.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
County, h oh Okay, that's pretty sparse. Yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
They they just haven't accepted the fact that a person
who is gay is just part of society. That they're
really against him for that fact, and they want him
convicted because of that.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Let me, when she disappeared, right, that all of a
sudden she's not there. What did everybody think had happened
to her that she had left or what? Or did
they always suspect somebody had killed her.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Someone actually, someone who was involved in the murder actually
spread the rumor that she had left town.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
I see, Okay, okay, and so nobody paid much attention,
right right, nobody always she left and that was the
end of that. Okay, right now, like, oh, what happened
to so and so? You know exactly so, So nobody's paying.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Too much attention until they dig.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Up the body, okay, and when they which obviously, and
I'm thinking to myself, well, if they dug up the body,
I guess it must have been like going, oh, ship,
I'm in trouble now. It's like, oh, you know, like like,

(24:31):
let me ask you do, how's this? This the defense lawyer?
Do you think of that? Let's let's if he wouldn't
have had your protagonist's help, do you think that he
would have been able to defend this guy?

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Or no?

Speaker 1 (24:48):
No? Right, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
She uses intuition and you know, female ways of doing things, Okay,
friends with the right people. She uh pulls information out
from very She ends up with four suspects and then
just to figure out which one it is.

Speaker 1 (25:12):
Okay, So, but at some point, let me ask you something,
why is she she's so convinced that it's not her
ex husband.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
There's no evidence against him, Okay, you know, they can't
come up with any evidence. They you know, they tried
to make mountains out of mobiles, no evidence, and he
moved away several months before she was killed. Okay, but

(25:44):
the DA says, well, he could have come back and
done it.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
All right, Yeah yeah, But at the same time, yeah,
it's like that's like any it could have been anybody. Yeah, exactly.
That's very interesting because yeah, yeah, we always look, you know,
always you think, okay, motive, you know, who wants who
wants to uh to kill this person or benefits from

(26:08):
the death of this person, you know, and then you
work it from there unless I get like I said,
unless it's a stranger on stranger crime, and then there's
so that in the and I'm gonna read the book,
but I'm gonna help myself.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
She is she is?

Speaker 1 (26:26):
She are these people because like you said, this is
a really sparsely five thousand. Has there ever been any
murders there that weren't solved that or is this a
one off?

Speaker 2 (26:38):
I think this is really a one off in the community. Okay,
you always have.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
You know, well, you know, what I'm going with This.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Was an unsolved but it's a very unusual situation.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Right, And the reason why I'm asking is like is
I don't want you to give away the thing, but
is this killer killed somebody else in the past, you know,
and got away with it? And okay, all right, see
what I mean? See where I was going? Well, and
see this is the thing. You know again, you know
you're thinking, well, maybe as far as the townspeople know,

(27:16):
there hadn't been any other murders. But you know, what
is it, no victim, no crime. If so, if this person,
this perpetrator, killed somebody else, buried them somewhere out in
the woods, and then put out a rumor, Oh so
and so said he was moving to u wherever, nobody
goes looking for this person. And for all you yeah,
they're pushing up daisies back in the pasture over there.

(27:38):
Nobody knows.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
And actually what happens in this process is they actually
uncover a very significant scandal in the town.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
So we have to have that too, yes, okay.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
And and and then of course Maggie and her sidekick,
if you will, having romantic feelings towards each other.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
Okay, So that's that's okay. Okay, So in the middle
of this, she's okay, nothing wrong with that romance? Who
done it? And let me ask you, at the is

(28:24):
the reason? How's this is the reason that she's seen
the ghost of this victim? Is it because the girl
is wants to help her or she just wants resolution,
or she's trying to you know, in other words, I
want to make sure the right person is the one
that In other words, at the end of everything, does

(28:44):
this ghost say, Okay, I'm done, I'm out of here.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
I think the ghost wants now let me say this way.
I think meg he wants justice for the victim. The
ghost wants justice for herself.

Speaker 1 (29:08):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, she was a victim in more ways than one.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
And in fact, I'll give you this little tippit. The autopsy,
they discovered that she was three and a half months
pregnant when she was killed.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh boy, talk about motive motive, more motive.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Motive you Yes, so we have a pregnant corpse, right,
can't be the husband because he was long gone.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
He was great, you know, right exactly? But yeah, but
of course that puts a whole new you know it
wouldn't be the first time that a woman gets murdered
because she's you know, inopportunity pregnant. It's like, yeah, exactly, yeah,
that that happens, That happens. That's happened quite a lot.
So yeah, so yeah, talk about motive for because I

(30:07):
imagine that's why everybody thinks, well, who would want And
let me ask you when she are there any other
suspects along the way or was just everybody looking at him?
There was nobody that she was having problems with.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Or everybody loved her, okay, Vince, I mean she was
she was a real sweet girl, grew up in town.
Everybody loved her. She had this this herbal business and
she sold these teas and you know, they couldn't find
anyone who didn't like her.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
So somebody out there, somebody out there's a real good
hypocrite or a real good actor as far as.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Or took advantage of her.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Right, But I mean you had to fake it? How's that? Yeah?
And knew how to fake it was the last thing
you want is for your your your neighbors or your
town's people to realize I want to beat up this
lady that she turns up dead. So if you're if
you if you've got those plans going on, you know,

(31:09):
you're always like, oh, she's such a sweet lady, or
she's such a sweet girl.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
She's I don't want to say too much.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
No, no, don't don't. I don't want to. I don't
want to.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
All I can say is we end up with four suspects.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Okay, Now let me ask you, are you going to
is this going to be the first of a series?
Are you going to keep going with Okay, I'm working
on the second one now, okay, And are you going
to stay in the same setting or are you going
to move some other place out of state or in
Utah or what.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
It's going to be cut pretty much the same setting,
you know, kind of a different situation. What I'm what
I want, what Maggie is going to do is she's
going to end up defending people who run into complications
with the law.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
You know, most murder mysteries are you know, a cop
trying to catch somebody who kills somebody, right, That's that's
your traditional murder mystery, and so you're always chasing and
looking for it, for the for the murderer, and exactly
We've got someone who's run into a situation with the

(32:28):
law and he doesn't know what to do, he doesn't
know how, he's never dealt with the law before. Sure,
you know, he says, I'm innocent, I don't know what
to do, and she says, you've got to have some help.
Let me help you. And she kind of puts herself
into these situations where somebody fairly innocent has gotten into trouble,

(32:53):
has a bad situation, and she goes in there and
helps them get through whatever the.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Situation is, right, exactly, Yeah, because most people when it
comes especially depending on the type of crime or something
that they're involved in, it could be complicated, like I'm
you know, I'm out of my depths totally.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
So, like the second novel, Is Good is dealing with
someone who kills in self defense. So, okay, she's she's
working with a situation where there is a self defense
and that's that's always difficulty in court and so but

(33:35):
she takes the side of the defense. She's on the defense.
She's always going to be on the defense team, now, okay,
which is also unusual. So you have a woman on
the defense team where ninety nine percent of all crime stories.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
Your your protactonist is on the prosecution side, right, right, exactly.
It's a little bit different, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
Except the old Perry Mason shows which, by the way,
every one time while I catch some of those, and
I was like, hmmm, you know the and this is
is there a point where how's this that she does?

(34:21):
She go on her intuition to believe that this person
is innocent or needs help or is there any ever
ever time is she's like like, wonders, am I doing
the right thing about this? What if I'm wrong? What
if I'm helping the wrong person? Not the wrong person,
but helping them thinking something about them and that's not
really who they are.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
She trusts her intuitional a lot. Okay, Defense attorneys usually
don't worry about that particular question.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
It's just forget it your I'm gonna tell I see
what what you mean.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I'm getting to, like attorneys say, I'm going to do
the best to get to the best outcome period, right, right,
And they always have to look at whether or not.
You know, if there's enough evidence to convict somebody in court,
then what you do is you negotiate us a deal, right,

(35:25):
and you know you try to get probation or.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Something, right, right, Yeah, yeah, exactly, I guess depending on
the crime, and you know, and you know, well if
you admit you know whatever, then you don't imagine not
going to what is it? The ultimate would be that
you go to a jury trial, right that it's like
the whole full blown thing, unless they make a deal
and they say, okay, well all right, I'll admit I
did it, but for whatever the charge might be, you

(35:49):
take lesser charges, right, you take lesser charges, You take
something that's not as bad as but you're originally going
to get.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah. I mean I was never a defense attorney, but
I learned all of this in law school.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Okay, all right, yeah, well yeah, that's the kind of
thing that you know. Sometimes I'm going by the Hollywood version,
and I don't know if you're familiar. There's this movie.
It's already it's got to be at least over twenty
years old, with Richard Gear and he plays this hot
shot defense lawyer who always wins. And it's a young

(36:25):
guy I can't remember. Edward Norton is the actor, and
he's accused of killing this archbishop, you know, or bishop
or somebody very high up, and of course, the the prosecution,
you know, it's the outrage and you know, he killed
this Brigham. So basically he the guy that's being accused
something along with you said self defense. And he's got

(36:48):
a you know, one of these kids that he was
a runaway as a young guy. He's still a young guy.
He has got a bad stutter, and his thing was,
I've got split personality. You know, I'm the stuttering fool,
and then the other personality took over, and it's that

(37:09):
personality that killed the bishop. Okay, And basically he does
the whole movie to prove you know, this guy's you know,
insanity like his he's his he's not in his right mind.
He's got the split personality. He was abused all this thing,
and he even proves that there was some type of

(37:32):
that the bishop, that there was some type where he
was making him film himself sexual another with another young girl,
one of those deals. But at the end, yeah, he
gets the guy off in the sense of he's not
Then it turns out that once that's over, the guy
he defended and the jail cell turns around and says
starts talking to her. He goes, no, there's no other

(37:54):
guy with a stutter. This is me. The real me
was the the bad self you know that supposedly had
done the murder, the split personality. There was no split.
And he just like like laughs at him and tells him, yeah,
you felt for that thing, and that guy doesn't exist.
This is me, This is really me, you know, so

(38:15):
exactly that was exactly it. There was no double jeopardy
as far as that's it. He was off off the hook.
And you see Richard gear who you know who this
in this movie. He's all puffed up with himself thinking, oh,
I'm you know, I'm a hot shot and I got
this guy and it's a whole high profile case. And
at the end you see he's like, I can't believe
what I just did? What did I do? Fantastic when

(38:41):
you look at it the first time, when you don't
know the twist at the end, you know, you're like wow.
And then at the end it's like you're so full
of yourself that you just didn't see all the signs
that were there that maybe this guy really was a
murderer and he played you along with everybody else. So yeah, yep,

(39:02):
one of those deals. Even though let me ask you,
and I know sometimes I think when people are committed,
you know, when they're found guilty by reason I guess
of insanity. I don't know what the actual verbiage is.
In other words, enough found guilty, like like they were
in their right mind. If they're ever let's say they're
sent to a medical or a mental hospital. And if

(39:26):
they're deemed cured, are they released or do they send
them back to jail to prison? Can you answer that.
I've never I've wondered about that.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
I think it always depends on the circumstances. I can
tell you this. When I was in d C looking
as a consultant, one of my projects was at the
at Saint Elizabeths hospital where they got Hinckley was who
who attacked regularly, right, he was kept in that hospital

(39:58):
even though they think figured out he was not really crazy.

Speaker 1 (40:03):
You know, he kind of put on what was it
because he was deemed a danger or.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Why he got off because on an insanity defense. So
you know, the speculation isn't you know, I can't say that.
The speculation is that he fabricated some of that to
avoid going to prison, and so he was sent to

(40:28):
a metal hospital.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Okay, okay, and he was kept there, okay.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Even when it was pretty obvious he was just not insane.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Right, Yeah, you stand out because all the real crazyes
are running around and you're not one of them. But
then they.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Started, they gave him home business. He started going to
uh stay with his parents and this and that released him.
But he was in Saint Elizabeth when I was working
on the project, the project there, so you know, of
course we talked about Sure, yeah he was released, it

(41:07):
was after I finished the project. But uh, he's out
there now and living.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, I know that was not long ago that he
was actually like he's in his sixties or something like
that now, or.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, he's he's he's up there. But they kept him
long enough. It was almost like a jail sentence, right,
nicer than a jail sentence. But now they're still locked up, right,
they still have rules and regulations almost as bad, if
not worse than in jail. It's just right, the facilities

(41:43):
are usually nicer.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Sure, but let me ask you, and I guess with
and then I know, with mental illness, that's a very
way to say that somebody's cured of something, because some
mental illnesses per se really can't be cured. You can
treat them, but that person maybe will spend the rest
of their life needing medication to you know, but you
always think what you know, it's some psychiologists or psychiatrists

(42:07):
going to say this person is cured. In other words,
they're not a danger anymore. That's what you always think of.
You know, they don't go to prison. They end up
going to an asylum or some type of mental you know, institution,
and then a couple of years down the road, the
doctor or whoever's been treating him says, he's good, you know,
he's okay.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
And then sometimes they get and they go out and
kill some Oh.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Absolutely, of course they do. I know I shouldn't say absolutely,
but a lot of times you do hear that. You
do hear that that that they that they either if
they're supposed to take meds, they don't take their meds.
They and they they end up doing horrific things, depending
on you know, what their diagnosis is. And one time,
and I'll say this real quick, I was reading this

(42:50):
book about Son of Sam. You know, they were one
of the one of the books that it was like
the ultimate evil. One of the author, one of the things.
He posits was that that Burkelewoods committed some of the burdens,
but not all of them. It was a group of them,
and that basically he was convinced kind of like take
the font for this, and you're gonna act all crazy,

(43:11):
you know with the thing with the dog barking and
the demon. It's telling me, because you're gonna get sent
to an insane asylum and then they'll let you go
in a couple of years. Like go ahead, you know,
take one for the team, all right, act we're gonna
set you up to act real crazy, and you're gonna
say this thing with the dog and the laborator with
a hole and all that crap. They're gonna not basically

(43:33):
prosecute you, and you're gonna send you to an asylum
and then you'll be out soon. And that that that's
and that once he was once he was going through
the process, that basically he was because he was adopted,
but his adoptive father was still alive, and that his
fear was that they were going to do something to

(43:55):
his adoptive father, you know, as far as the group
that actually he admitted these crimes with, So it was
like because you would think, okay, well if there, if
you're going to go to prison, you're not going to uh.
I know that he was looked at by I don't
want to I want to say his bellevy, But anyway,
he was examined by all these doctors as to how

(44:18):
if he was crazy or whatever. Ultimately, you know, he
did go to prison. Prison. He's still there, and they
say that he's never really said anything beyond sometimes making
a vague thing about somebody else because of the fear
of retribution against his family, you know, that kind of deal.

(44:38):
But I guess he believed that that thing of like, nah,
once they think you're crazy and you're saying, you know,
the dog is telling you to kill people, you'll be fine.
You'll be fine. They'll they'll hold you for a couple
of years and then they'll let you go. And and
then of course in that case, you know, part of
it I was reading part of the book was that
the police department was getting so much heat from the

(45:01):
people New York because everybody was so scared, like you
better catch somebody, all right, like now, that they didn't
want to dilute the case against this guy by saying, hey,
we think there's other people. In other words, we got
our guy. He's a guy, the only guy who went
and shot up on these young people sitting in cars,

(45:23):
and no, yeah, there's a bunch of other stuff here,
including I believe the sketches that they took from different
witnesses throughout the shootings that did not look like him.
But they didn't want to have it was like the
police was like, no, that's our guy, that's our guy,
which of course it's not only a police is. I
guess the prosecutors like they didn't want to look at
the possibility that it was more than one person that

(45:45):
was involved in that. So yeah, you always hear about that.
And there was one case, this was a few years back.
I think the guy killed his wife and he claimed
he was sleepwalking or something like that, and I was like,
what in the world that's a And the other one

(46:06):
is because I was a hypnotherapist for many years. You
know people that say, well, I was hypnotized to commit
these crimes, and it's like, come on, hello, you know
that doesn't work that way.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
You can't do anything under hypnosis.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
Of course, that goes against your moral fiber, of course,
not of course not, but you hear that story, like
you know you can you hypnotize somebody and you convinced
it to go robb a bank. It's like, hello, now.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
I have to do something with hypnosis in one of
my stories. That interesting.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Yeah, it's it's well, I used to do be says
the traditional hypnosis like you know, smoking cessation, and you
know it's bottom line is behavior modification. You know I
did do alternative as in past life regression and all
these things, and everybody would ask me, well does that
really work? Is that for real? I said, you know what,

(46:57):
in some cases, whether you want to believe in real
incarnation or not, it works for some people if you
want to say, okay, when you give put them in
regression and they see this past life whatever it is,
and it works in their mind. The result is what
it is. This has nothing to do with whether reincarnation
is real or not. If the outcome has results positive

(47:20):
results along those lines.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
I used hypnosis once. It was very effective for what
we test anxiety when I had to take the entrance
test for law school. Yes, when I used hypnosis when
I passed the bar EXAMD.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
What is it? Memory? Retention, nervousness nervousness.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
Yes, yes, yes, just let's go of all of that
and you focus on what you have to focus on.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
It was amazing.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Yes, I had one time. I had this gentleman. He
had been a nurse out in California, all his family,
everybody in Florida. They offered. It was it was some
type of program. I guess they must have been they
needed nurses, I think is what it was. And he
was like a I want to say, like an L
and A you know. But the program was come over here,

(48:12):
take your two more years, become an RN. You know,
we'll train you and you work at the hospital and
then you'll you know, one of those deals like go
to school in the morning, you work in the afternoons
in the hospital and there you are. And it was
like one of these things. I'm sure there's to a track,
like I said, nurses. He had been already a nurse
fifteen years in California. Well, what happens to him is

(48:36):
every time he was going to take a test, he
got so anxious he would blank out, his mind would go,
you know. And this was not like somebody that would say,
well they've never done nursing. He had he had the
practical experience, but of course he had to learn. I
guess other things that registered nurses learn. I don't know.
And he came to see me because of that, because
he was telling me I sold everything, I left everything

(48:58):
behind in California and I came over here. I got
nobody here, and if this doesn't work, I'm in trouble
because I've like basically banked on this working out for me.
So I had to work with him. So when you
say that, people don't really I guess it wasn't just
the pressure of the test. It's the pressure of everything
that was writing along with it.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
It was the anxiety of, you know, I don't know
what I'm doing. Why am I doing this? YadA, YadA, YadA. Yeah.
I was forty five years old when I started law school.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Okay, so I was scared to death, but I decided
I wanted to do it.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
So I did it, and that's great. I think that's great.
By the way, I think that's great. That's fantastic. Well,
this gentleman, what I did was I did a binding
what's called a double bind on him, which is besides
the quite as mind is that I taught him when
you pick up this was when you know, this was
a while not that far back. But you know when
you do the with the number two pencil that you
feel then the bubbles kind of deal. So we did

(50:02):
a buying when when you pick up that pencil, you're
gonna we're gonna tie it into your relaxed state and
your memory comes down. And that's how it worked. That's
how he worked for that's what they did. Okay, there
you go, and it works. It works, I know it works.
I know it works. Yeah, because that anxiety makes blanks
your mind out, like you could study for hours and

(50:24):
hours and it just.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Yes. On the entrance test.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
There were only three questions that I wasn't sure about,
and when I got my score back, the only questions
I missed were those three.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
There you go, yes, yes. People don't know realize that.
And there's people that by the way, they have a
history all their lives though, of of test taking for
them is very difficult because they might just be just
an anxious person all the time. You know, they're always
simmering and then they go to you know, super anxiety

(51:07):
all you know, it doesn't take much and they're just
bad test takers. They know that the information. It's just
that when it comes to testing, that's it. It's done.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
So I tell people about it all the time because
it worked.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yes, it works, it works. Let me ask you something, Bonnie,
something about your bio that I meant to ask you about.
What is the Golden Girls Network? What is that?

Speaker 2 (51:36):
When I lived in DC, yes, I got married, okay,
what the third time? But we ended up buying this
big old house that needed renovation, all right, And then
we spent a bunch of money fixing it up and
it's really.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Nice, okay. And divorced okay, and I.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Ended up with the house.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Right.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
It was two thousand and eight, and there was a
big recession going on, yes, and I didn't want to
sell the house at that time, but I had a
bedroom house. So I started taking in roommates, okay, women.
I decided it was going to be women my age group, okay.
And so I started doing this, and somewhere along the line,

(52:27):
I was I was talking to other people, other women
who were exploring the idea of roommate type situations when
you're older, and we started talking about it, and we
came up with the name of this is a Golden
Girls house because Golden Girls were.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Very popular then the show, Yes, I.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Think they they were no longer on, but it was
still very fresh in people's minds. So I called it
the Golden Girls Network, and I developed a software program
where people could match up. Right, I have a house,
I want to be a roommate. So I was trying
to do that, and I've got a lot of publicity,

(53:13):
but I couldn't make it work financially, right, And I
ended up selling it to a woman in I sold
the program to a woman in Canada who's still running it. Really,
there is a Golden Girls Network in Canada, okay. And
I also wrote a book about it. It's called How

(53:35):
to Start a Golden Girls Home, and it's been selling
on Amazon for ten years.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
And the whole idea is the rooming or the housing
for older women as far as under the same roof
kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I mean, similar to the show, except not it isn't
always a comedy.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
Right exactly. Well, yeah, that was that whole thing that
they all got together like, okay, well we got all
live in this nice and nice house and we all
live together in the same roof. We can afford it.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yeah, and we're a difference because what what what is
not real well known is there are a whole lot
of women out there who don't have enough money to
live on and they end up being single and they're
too old to really work. And so you've got a

(54:29):
lot of desperate old women. Yeah, and you've got a
lot of women who you know, might end up divorced
at fifty and you don't necessarily have a great job.
You've got to take care of yourself. And so so

(54:53):
I wrote a book about it.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Oh, let me tell you something. If anybody this was,
like you said, back in a wait when of course
they're was their real estate bubble and everything. But even now,
look at the cost of housing and rentals. It's like,
holy what is this? You know, It's like before you
could like, yeah, okay, you can always find some nice

(55:17):
little apartment or maybe a studio or something, or it's
all inclusive and you can like live you could maybe,
you know, but still it's it's really really difficult.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Especially if you're a single woman.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah, I live in a fifty five plus community. I
love it that they raise our rent every year.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Well you know what that's I know, there's not the
paranormal guys, but I don't care. They were talking about
how you know everybody now is you know, like running
around like where do I live? And that they say that,
you know, a lot of these fifty five and over
communities people originally moved there thinking, Okay, you know what,
housing the cost is low, even though you pay a

(56:00):
monthly rental on the let's say mobile home park for example,
or whatever, or someplace where that you have maybe some
type of hr way. But now those prices, they could
they're going up so much that what was a great
idea before as far as economy was concerned when you
went there to begin with, that's not it's not working anymore.

(56:21):
A lot of people having a hard time with that.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
I lived in San Francisco for twenty five years and
they have rent control there. Oh they do, Okay, Oh yeah,
at least they did when I lived there. I've been
gone for quite a while. Okay, but California does have
rent control in some areas, and it's an effort to

(56:45):
try to stop that. But landlords have ways getting around
it too. They find ways of kicking out a tenant
so they can raise the rent. Yes, yes, situation is
very difficult.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
I had a friend who lived I think she's still
living out there in Mercette, and I remember when I
went to visit her. We went to San Francisco. This
was like an five o six and it was great.
I went to Fisherman's wharph and did all the touristy stuff.
And she told me she we were talking about. She goes, Oh,
there's people that buy out in Mercet and commute because
they can't afford to live or rent in San Francisco proper.

(57:22):
So then will they have to the only way they
do is coming and going. I was like, wow, yes, yes,
you know.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
They average normal person can't live in San Francisco and
to old your property for thirty.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
Years, right, And from what I understand, I was reading
one time that a lot of these boxes were the
really the old ones were the ones out of the
Sears catalog from the sub box houses. And now I'd like,
forget it, they're untouchable. But yeah, the thing with the
real estate. And as a matter of fact, one time
I was reading I was doing research on something and

(57:58):
this was in Louisville, and they had what was called
a millionaire's row and one of the millionaire's older houses
that was bought owed by the Presbyterian Church, and that's
what they did. The ones that they were moving in
there were older, unmarried Presbyterian ladies, yes, who lived in
this house and they ran it like that for like
fifteen years.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
It's a good idea. You have to be careful about
who you choose. Sure, you know, if you've spent fifty
years living in a certain lifestyle, it's a little bit
difficult to move in with somebody who has a different lifestyle.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
Sure, but it was also.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Educational, challenging. Made some friends that I'm still in touch with.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
And I know what you mean, because sometimes you know
what I remember when I read that, I said, wow,
this is a great idea.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
The idea was you had to be an unmarried lady older.
That was. But then I'm thinking, you know, these houses
they got the god staircase. There's no elevation, so and
you know, usually all these bedrooms are upstairs, and it's like, well,
I hope your knees are okay because of you and
I you've got a trip up you know which, By
the way, that the house, it did have a reputation
for being haunted and I remember that was because I

(59:15):
was reading from the original owner, the millionaire that had
it built like around the turn of the century, and
I said, you know what, as a matter of fact,
the Presbyterian ladier were like twenty years. They were there
for a while. Said, you know what, if anybody's ghost,
it's forget the owners. It's all these ladies that lived
there for twenty years. And I'm sure a bunch of
them ended up passing away. You know, if anybody's ghost,

(59:36):
forget the millionaire owner. You know, it's the old lady.
That's someone one of these twenty some years of Presbyterian
ladies living there that you know that this was their
last stopping place. But I guess my point is that
even back then, these circumstances are being older, and the
economics of where are you going to live? And you know,

(01:00:01):
let's face it, being a Walmart reader, you're not gonna
be able to cover your rent outside.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Yeah, you know a lot of people are getting Social Security,
but it's not enough now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
It's not for work. Nope, it is not. It is
not even now you can tell is like, man, this
is there's a there's no way. As a matter of fact,
this is something I heard that a lot of these
and I'm talking Florida here, but I have a feeling
that it's other places in the country that a lot

(01:00:36):
of these home developers they you know that sometimes it
takes years, but the between the time that they buy
the land that they develop it or they do the
plumbing the roads, that what's happened is some of them
had made up plants. We're going to develop this piece
of land and we're going to put a hundred houses there, whatever,
but that the economy has changed so drastically between the
time that they purchased the land that they plant that

(01:00:58):
they're having to end up renting these houses that normally
they would sell because their loan's coming do they got
to pay the bank for their project, you know, so
all of a sudden, these home developers they become landlords
instead of because people aren't buying because either you know,
they decide I'm going to wait, or they just can't
afford it. So a lot of these developers are finding

(01:01:21):
themselves having to rent out houses. That's right, Yes, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Being a developer is a huge risk, and you make
a lot of money.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
When you sold your house. When you sold the house
when you did the closing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
This is what you were Yeah, I ended up selling
that house when I when I when I decided to
move to Utah, and I had ten yard sales to
get rid of all my stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Oh my god, you see, I know see see it's
one of those things and you realized all this stuff
was duplicating. We sold our house out of Miami in
a well really I sold it the first day, but
I sold it the weekend. My cousin, who was my
real estate she goes, Marlene, please please let me show
it during the weekend because the first offer we got
was so good. She goes, because I have so many

(01:02:19):
people lined up that if I tell them I'm not
going to show the house, I have to give them
some hope. Okay. So I said, okay, fine, show it
for the weekend because but bottom line, we sold it
within twenty four hours. And she goes, you have forty
five days to move out. And I was like what.
She goes, yeah, we're gonna I can't delay the closing
beyond forty five days. Oh my god. That's when you

(01:02:40):
find you were talking about that you did all these
yard sales that It's like, how did I end up
having so much crop.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Well, I actually start I decided to move and I
had to do some repairs on the house before I
could put.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
On the market.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
So I actually started the yard sales before that. I
had a room that was perfect. I set it up
as a little store and one week it was one thing.
I did every two weeks, so one week was one thing,
the next time it was a completely different type of thing.

(01:03:17):
So I was filling it up every week and having
the yard sales and had people coming back because they knew,
you know, in two weeks, all the kitchen stuff is
going on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Oh okay, I see what you're saying. Okay, So I
got rid of it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
But it was just astonishing how much I had. And
I knew I was going to be moving into a
two bedroom apartment. I couldn't bring things with me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Plus you were leaving, you were going across the country.
That's another thing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
And I actually went back to the house was in Maryland,
and I went back a couple of years ago, maybe
three years ago, and visited the people that I sold
it to.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Okay, so I got to go back to my house
and you were able to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
We sat there for two hours. We had a great conversation. Okay,
were the first people who walked in the door. They
stayed for two hours. Now, you know, the owner is
supposed to be gone, but things kind of got messed up,
and my real estate lady couldn't come, and somebody came
as a substitute. He didn't know anything about the house.

(01:04:31):
So I stuck around because we did a tremendous amount
of modeling. Okay, so I stuck there, and so I
was off in the corner describing this and this and
this and this is what we did here and this
is what we did there, and I'll let me show
you this fabulous thing that I did over here. So
I was showing people.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
How old was the house? Hold? Is the house?

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
The house was built in sixty two.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
Okay, it wasn't that old, but it was. Ok it
was a nice house.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
I really liked it. And you know, the original idea
is we were going to stay there. But you know,
and I remodeled the kitchen and did a fabulous job.
Because she sold the house. But I'm showing people around
and telling them about this and telling them about that.

(01:05:20):
And so these people came and they stayed for two
hours talking to me and went back and I had
the offer by that night.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
I was gonna say, who needs a real estate agent?
You were your own real estate agent, the commission to home.
You did the pitch, he did everything. It was like, man,
this is great, but.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
You know, we developed a friendship and oh but but
where I was going with this was that that was
in early February, and I couldn't leave until the end
of April.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Okay, And so that was part of the deal.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
And it worked out for them to because they had
kids in school and they didn't want to be moving, so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
It was okay for the kids to finish up your
school years.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
Got very nicely. I stayed until the end of April,
got rid of all of my stuff, packed up everything,
and moved and then they were able to spend the
months painting and doing whatever you know they did, and
the grandma's school was out, they moved in.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Yeah, it worked out, but no, for me, it was like,
I mean, we knew that because it was an old farmhouse.
It was about one hundred years old and it had
been renovated, not by us, but you know, from prior owners,
and we knew. But it had an acreage on it
and we knew it was in my my cousin. She goes,

(01:06:48):
look this guy, he's willing to give you fifty thousand.
He's pre qualified. He's going to give you a fifty
thousand dollars up front, like good faith, downt payment, like
to take my offer. But she goes, I've got all
these other real estate agents with their clients wanting to
come see the house. Let's show them. Let's show the house.
But yeah, and the thing was again not that we

(01:07:08):
had that many things. Was everything? Oh how much? It's
just surprising, like you said that, even though you think
you don't have a lot of stuff, it turns out
you do have a big house.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
You fill up the rooms and you don't know you're
doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Yeah, yes, exactly exactly. And plus we were moving to
a much smaller thing like what you were saying, And
you know it was that that right there, It is like,
that's that's a I mean, I told my husband, if
you tell me about moving, I'm gonna hit you with
a shoe. Won't ever say moving. That word cannot come

(01:07:40):
out of your mouth again.

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
Okay, But you know it's it's nice because I used
to spend every weekend I had a huge yard list.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
I had to take care of yes, I you know,
every other weekend I had a housekeeper come. You know,
we would spend all day, you know, cleaning up the house.
I was spending so all my weekends taking care of
the house in the yard. Now I don't have to
do that. I don't have all this stuff to take
care of it anymore. I like it too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
How many times I doubled over my acreage, I can't
say the same I doubled. I'm the lawnmower lady. I'm
the lawnmower lady. My husband looks at me and he's like, oh,
and it's like, but you know, I don't mind I
do it. I don't sometimes when it's high like it is.
And I was like, oh, but yeah, the the as

(01:08:36):
far as they were talking about, I'm gonna I'm gonna
get this is. This is a horror story, guys. It's
a real estate horror story. But it's a horror story.
If you know you're gonna I heard about this happened
in here in Florida in Lauderdale my Lakes is Broward County, Florida.
There's a couple, an attorney by the way they've owned

(01:08:57):
this house like since two thousand and two thousand and one. Okay,
back in two thousand and one, they paid like around
six hundred thousand for the house. I guess their kids
grow up. Whatever, they decide, we want to keep the
house sentimental value. Plus this is where we're going to
just live our old age. But they decide, hey, this
house needs to be renovated. They decide to besides the renovation,

(01:09:21):
they decide to put a second floor on the house.
So much so that when they're doing these renovations, they
got to move out. But they clear everything supposedly with
the I think it's the city or the county, the
ones that do the permits, you know, like we're going
to move out temporarily everything. Make a long story short.
They come back, Everything is fine, wonderful, except their tax

(01:09:43):
bill went from fifteen to ninety one thousand dollars. And
basically it was that they that in other words, the
county I think it's the city, decided that because of
the renovations they did, they reassessed just like if they
have bought another house. And how I was going, what

(01:10:05):
in the war, and here these poor people, you know,
they're thinking we're gonna live here. You know, we have
sentimental attachment to the house. Probably they brought up their
family there and but you know, but we want to
live in comfort. Let's upgrade the house, renovate it, and
we'll just stay here.

Speaker 2 (01:10:20):
And then they got reassessed.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
And then they got reassessed. I was like, that's a
horror story. What no, that kind of thing, like you're thinking, Okay, well,
I'm going to retire now. Not really, because now you
got a ninety one thousand dollars tax bill to to
think about. Yes, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yeah, you hear
some of that stuff, and it's like, man, I'm not

(01:10:44):
moving anywhere. I'm not doing anything because that's crazy. Like so, yeah,
that is a horror story everybody, for anybody, And I'm
sure there's people are out there that As a matter
of fact, when I bought this piece of property, they
had on the other side of the property that had
like a small cottage really run down. We were gonna

(01:11:04):
like flatten it and it was a rental. And the
owner she lived in Indiana, and she had like a lady,
like a neighbor that would come with the keys and
show what was here and I said, okay, everything, and
then I said at the end, I said, I was
talking to the real estate lady. I said, yeah, everything.
The only thing I will not close, among other things,

(01:11:25):
is she's got to get that her rental. She's got
to empty it out. Why because I knew that that
guy was paying very low rent. This was twenty twenty.
I knew for a fact that he was not going
to go anywhere and be able to find something like that.
And it was like, no, you're sure enough. She had

(01:11:46):
to come down from Indiana and in a way kind
of buy him out, give him some money to get
him out of the place because he just couldn't find
to move out. And he was like no, no, no,
Martine's going to be the bad guy on this one.
I'm not going to be evicting anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:12:03):
No.

Speaker 1 (01:12:04):
So, yeah, one of those deals that's such as modern life.
Let's go like like you know, it makes you want
to like, you know, go live out in the tent
or something. But Bonnie has been absolutely wonderful to speak
to you. When do when do you when do you
plan you're going to be releasing your second book.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
Oh, I've cleared out a whole lot of time. I'm
working on it now. You know it takes time. I
spent five years writing Arry Goes, but I had to
look at about writing and I know all this stuff.
It's going much faster.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
Okay, so.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
My goal is to get it out in a year.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Okay, all right, now.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Everybody tells me people are going to want to know
when the next one is coming out. Got to get
it done, so I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Doing it right, right. No, it's it's especially yeah when
you're like, I know, I understand. I know, I understand
exactly what you mean. Everybody nobody thinks about writing is
hard work.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
It is, and it's also fun.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
It's fun.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
I get to make up all these people. You know,
I've got all these characters, and you know that that I.

Speaker 1 (01:13:21):
Control their lives right right, Like you're developing that character.
But even the fiction part, you got to think, Okay,
I got to make this plausible. I got to make
this at the same time makes sense to somebody who's
reading this story. You know how this character got this happened,
you know, because you know that's what lets makes a
good story. But yeah, I understand writing. Writing is hard

(01:13:43):
work for those people that think it's not it is.
It's very hard work, and there's people are going, yeah, sure,
sure Marlene, Sure it's like it is, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
You know, editing makes a huge difference. I just read
a book that actually was a second place one second
place in a contest, and I saw I bought it.
It was a mystery, and I had a problem with
it because the editing was so bad. Now that I

(01:14:11):
have have had editors over and over and over again,
you know, I went through like three editing processes, and
now I read other books.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
And it's like, wait a minute, you know, do you
do are you do? Are you using a program or
do you have somebody that's actually doing the editing for you?

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
Well, on Barry Bones, I started with a real editor.
We went through three different processes, right because you know,
the first draft is always bad. And then I got
it back and I was getting it ready to send
to a publisher and I actually bought a program.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
Okay, more errors. Wow, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
You know, so I think a combination you can't totally
depend upon a program. Yes, it finds all those missing commas, yeah,
and it finds things that you don't even think about
or so I like the idea of using both mm hmmm.

(01:15:25):
So anyway, I really like this editing program, okay, And
you know I've also learned a lot. You know, I've
read a lot of books about how to write in
and studied them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
Right, yes, so so now you know I can't read.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Somebody's book without saying, well, we see, how's this plot
being developed?

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Right exactly? Or what's the floor? Or you know, is
a sentence stickier? You know all those things stuff like that, Yeah,
could be improved. Yeah, exactly. What's a semi colon doing there? Yeah?
If you're like going, ah, you guys, man, stop talking grammar.

Speaker 2 (01:16:09):
But it does make a difference. And so anyway, you know,
I'm now at a completely different level of writing, and
you know, I'm doing well on the plot and it's
going to be intricate and it's going to take some time,

(01:16:34):
but I'm enjoying it because I know what I'm doing now.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Oh yeah, of course, it's like everything, it just all
of a sudden. Let me ask you something about it.
And I know this is off topic. Have you ever
had a paranormal experience or lived in a haunted house?

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
I haven't lived in a haunted house. I did have
an experience once where I felt like I was communicating
with a spirit.

Speaker 1 (01:17:00):
Okay. What happened was this like at home, where you
went someplace and you had the experience.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
I was at home.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
It was this.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
My sister was killed in a car accident.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
This is a number of years ago. And at the
time she was killed, we were arguing about something.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
And two years later, I was living in San Francisco
and I was taking classes at San Francisco State and
I came home one night and I had I was
sitting on the floor doing my homework and then I
felt this spirit come out of I had a poster
on the wall, and I just felt the spirit come
in and kind of take over me.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
She took over my hand and wrote a letter to me.
It was ok handwriting saying, you know, let's clear up
this issue. Okay, worry about what happened type of thing, so.

Speaker 1 (01:18:04):
Like an automatic writing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Yeah. It was weird. It was just it was it
was just you know, it's never happened since. But and
then she signed it, and then I felt the ghosts
the spirit. It was like the spirit leave and go
back into the poster, and you know, when it was
over with, I went to the phone and called a

(01:18:27):
friend of mine and told her what happened. And she's
just she she told me, you know, spirits sometimes can't
move on in the spirit world until they resolved things
back with people on earth. And that's what just happened, right,
And so I you know, I became a believer in

(01:18:48):
spirits right exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
And sometimes, believe it or not, it's not their resolution,
it's yours. It's like, in other words, it's like, let
me right exactly, let's let's let let me, let me
soothe your heart, let's get this result because of the
circumstances exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
It felt like, Yeah, it felt like a paranormal experience.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
That sure sounds like it, I'll tell you that much.
Sure does. Again, Bonnie, it has been wonderful to speak
to you. I want to wish you the best of
luck in your projects and I will be putting a
credit link to your website on the credits of the show.
But from a podcast listeners, how can they find out
more about you and your books and where they can
find it?

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Well, they can find it on Amazon. Okay, yeah, okay,
it's on Amazon.

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
I tell people to put in Barry Bones, Bonnie Moore,
because there are a couple of other books with the
same name, with a name of authors named Bonnie Moore.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
So, in other words, to put the whole things that
they can find to find it on Amazon. Okay, perfect,
I understand what you mean. Okay, it just.

Speaker 2 (01:20:01):
Makes it easier, yes, but and and actually I mean
it's it's fun to Noble, it's it's listed it in
a whole bunch of different places.

Speaker 1 (01:20:11):
Okay, And.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
But Amazon is easiest, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:20:18):
Yeah, that's where everybody ends up.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
You know what.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
I hate to say it because I do it for
other products, but this is where people go and look
at the at the and what people say about whether
it's the it's an ice maker or a book. You know,
what's the feedback that people leave about a book? You
know that that I think that's what the attraction is
about Amazon, that people like to read reviews. So the again, perfect,

(01:20:42):
I've got a couple of.

Speaker 2 (01:20:43):
Good reviews on there. You know, it just came out
last month.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
This is the thing. Yeah, it just launched, and I
hate to say it's it's that there's you know, people,
let me ask you, do you think eventually you'll put
it like an audible.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Could do. I mean, audible is becoming much more popular,
isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
I think that I've always been a reader. The reason
why I say is I've always been a reader. God
since I learned how to read, I've been reading. But
it's just this thing of that we unfortunately, we're multitasking.
So you know, people, you know the listening part, you know,
you can consume it, you know, listen to it that
way instead of if I can't be actually, you know,

(01:21:25):
reading it per se, I could still indulge in and
listen to the story.

Speaker 2 (01:21:30):
Yeah, it's I have a friend who's been using audible
books for years, and she keeps telling you it's so great.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Yes, yes it is.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Unlike you. I did Kindle. Now I've got like six
hundred books on my Kindle.

Speaker 1 (01:21:45):
Oh wow, okay, that's another thing. When i'm I can see,
I see, I've seen behind you all those books you've got.
I have to leave so many of my books behind,
but you know, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
I've left most of my books in Maryland. I had
a life time supply of books, lifetime collection and then
an amazing collection, and I narrowed it down the three
bookcases here I could only bring certain books. Okay, now
everything is everything I buy is on Kindle.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
I know, I know. It's easier that way, it's more accessible,
it's not taking up the space exactly. Yeah, but I remember,
and this was I haven't done it because it's not
I would fill up, you know, once a year the
library Miami Dade County, they would basically, you know, the
library can only hold x amount of books, so they
would have this huge sale once a year of all

(01:22:39):
the books that they would bring to the main library
and sell them out there. And some of them were
falling apart because they've been taken out a million times.
But you could find some great books out there for
like any nothing. They were basically like take them, you know,
ten suns, take them. So I got a lot of
good books. But that takes them a lot of space.
So yeah, I love yes exactly. Again, thank you so much,

(01:23:04):
and take care, Bonnie. Yes, it's wonderful. Yes, I have look.
Wait show it. Wait there it is, I have it
right here, have it right here? See yep, I'm trying
to Yeah, there it is, I have it right here. Again,
Thank you so much, Bonnie, take care.

Speaker 2 (01:23:24):
It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:23:25):
Bye bye. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Let me tell you it's very interesting because you know,
I mean we're talking about I wasn't kidding you know,
the when we you know, which is why I wanted
to ask her. You know. Sometimes you know, even though
a book is fictionalized, you know, you draw from your
own personal experiences, and in this case, is or what's happening,

(01:23:57):
you know, which is why I brought up the thing.
I see, I haven't like the book, like I haven't
gotten far enough into it to find out what she
said about the DNA, because that's one of my things,
you know, I there's you know, I like true crime,
and because I think it's all these cases, That's what

(01:24:18):
I'm saying, especially with the DNA that now they're discovering,
you know, first of all, the identity of victims, and
then from there sometimes they're able to find out who
the perpetrator was. In some cases, I will tell you that,
if it's a really old case, sometimes they've even lost

(01:24:40):
like you know, you know, they would box these evidence
of whatever material like whatever was at the scene. In
some cases, these boxes have been lost or destroyed or
sometimes not, you know, I want to say, especially some
of these old cases, whoever was guilty, they're dead. They're dead.

(01:25:04):
A lot of times, even the family members parents of
let's say, if it was a younger person that died,
the majority. Sometimes they have siblings that are still alive,
but the majority of their family have passed away. We're
talking really the old, old, old cold cases. And in
some I want to say not all the time, but

(01:25:26):
sometimes when they have, when they have, they find remains
that they've never been able to identify, and the family
never really knows. I mean, especially when it's years go by.
They kind of know or believe that this person died,
but they've never really had conclusive answers as to this

(01:25:47):
is what happened this you know, they just didn't move
to the other side of the country and forgot about
you that they're given a definite answer. You know, this
person was here and this is what you know, we
found them and maybe we even can tell you this
is what happened to them, as who did it? Or
you know, there's a lot of sometimes you know what

(01:26:09):
it's how's this? Some of these victims, you see that
they're in a risky lifestyle. They unfortunately they run in
with people they they they're been involved in drugs or
crime or the people they hang out with. It's like
you know, and then there's other people that just they're normal.
When I say normal, how's this? They they're living non

(01:26:30):
risky lifestyles and then they just get plucked away, they disappear,
and the family never knows what happened to them, and
it's because something like that happened. He's in point like
the like in her story, nobody, no crime, no victim,
no crime, all right. If there's no proof that this

(01:26:51):
person was actually killed, as far as the police, sometimes
there is no crime, and they'll tell you, well, this
person could have just decided that they wanted just not
to have nothing to do with their family, and they
went somewhere and there's nothing that's that you can do

(01:27:12):
to prevent that. And if they there's there's we have
no proof that. Especially let's say like if they go
to the place where this person lived and there's blood
splattered on the wall, Okay, something happened here. Obviously there's
some foul play. But if there's nothing like that, there
was I want to say this was maybe three four

(01:27:33):
or five years maybe with Gaysey. You know, as you
know Gaysey, he under his house, they discovered all these
bodies of all these young men that he had basically
raped and killed, strangled, and he was horrific.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
So they.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
There was a bunch of them, believe it or not,
that they had never been able to identify them. Some
they had others they had it. And I think one
of the most recent ones that the idea, of course
again with DNA was this guy, because there's you know,
everybody that he I want to say it was the

(01:28:15):
rich and I think it was Long Island something like that,
northeast somewhere. I want to say it was Long Island, Rhode.
It was one of those. Anyway, he was one of
these guys that he was, this young guy and he
just told me, look, I want to do my own
thing and I don't want to stick around with you guys.
See you bye. There was from what I understand from
what I read that it wasn't like it wasn't like

(01:28:35):
the dysfunctional family, like I need to do it away
from you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:28:38):
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
For some reason, this guy just didn't want to be
with his family. He wanted to live life on his
own and see yah, I'm moving, I'm doing my own
thing and don't worry about me, and see you when
I see you, if you ever see me, that kind
of deal. So when he dropped off the face of
the earth that he got killed by gaycy, his family's thinking,
did something happened to him? But he was like one
of these that he as a matter of fact, you

(01:29:02):
had gotten married and divorced, but still is a young guy.
And he just turns out that where he was was
under Gacy's house. All right. I think it was like
twenty two or twenty three years old. And finally the
family got an answer like, hey, you know you're young

(01:29:22):
guy of your family. He didn't move off to California
and you know, flip you guys off. He was killed.
But my point being is that there's a lot of
times people that either by lifestyle or by choice, they
move away from their family of origin. And a family
of origin is really never really has a like they think,
and this person gonna be alive and just doesn't want

(01:29:43):
to be with us or want to let us know
or drop us a note like hey I'm out and.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
So and so.

Speaker 1 (01:29:50):
And then other times, you know, how's this. It's like
it's the worst case scenario when you fall it say
into the hands of like a gaycy type character, because
there's nobody out there looking for you. You see what
I'm saying, it's not that you say, you know what.
This guy, it was kind of crazy, but every once

(01:30:11):
in a while he would drop us a line and say, hey,
I'm out here, I mean there, I'm okay, don't worry
about me, all right, And then another couple of months
would pass by and he'd send a note, a letter,
a postcard, whatever, Hey, I'm okay, don't worry about me.
So that when that person doesn't, then you say, okay,
something happened here, all right. But when you have a

(01:30:34):
person that says I'm out of here by so you
really have no idea that something happened to him or
did he just really make good on what he was
always telling us he wanted to do. Another case like
this is back in the seventies seventies in Broward County.
This is in the county north of Miami. They find

(01:30:59):
this lady in a trunk. This is like in the
a back of like a bar. They found all of
these old steamer trunks and they find this lady. She's
in a negligee with rollers and she's dead. They crammed
her in there and she's bashed and they couldn't identify her.

(01:31:20):
They found her, like she was within forty eight hours.
So they had a really good idea what she looked like,
you know, and they said, okay, she's had children, she's
she was really tall, she was like five ten, you know,
they and they put out a sketch because back then,
you know, they had the sketches. Nothing can find her
NA A zero And finally they was it three years ago,

(01:31:48):
four years ago, something like that. They had tried. They
had exzoomed her because you know a lot of these
people they would end up bearing them. And then I
think she was exzoomed twice to take DNA material hopefully
to find her find something, you know whatever. Now come
to find out what happened is this lady. They finally
got a name for her. She had I want to say,

(01:32:12):
originally she had lived in Arizona. It was Arizona. She
had been married twice, She had kids from her first marriage,
she has kids from a second marriage. And she meets
a guy, you know, I think it was her third marriage,
and they decide we're going to move up to Chicago,

(01:32:33):
or Detroit. She had I think a sister living up there. Okay.
Now she has a little girl with her last husband, Okay,
and the kids, her first kids, they're already like teenagers,
they're like seventeen eighteen. Her middle kids from the second husband,

(01:32:53):
they stay there with her dad. So she leaves with
her two older kids from her first marriage and the
little girl she has with her current husband. This daughter,
which was seventeen, it's even married. She's like seventeen marrieds
a nineteen year old. They moved to Detroit again or Chicago.
I can't remember where. The sun at some point says

(01:33:14):
I'm going back home to dad in Arizona or wherever
she's gone. Somewhere along the way. Everybody's loses touch with everybody.
They lose touch with her, with her daughter, the husband, everybody.
They can't find it. And it's like that's the part
I don't always get all of a sudden, you know.

(01:33:38):
I mean, I know that there's you know, a country,
you know, several states between them. But still now when
they identify her, it turns out this was it was
in the seventies, because I remember something about the Vietnam
War going on. So this happened in the seventies, seventies

(01:34:00):
kind of deal. Her husband. They he By the time
they did, they get the DNA and they figure out
who this is her last husband. He's dead. He had
moved to Las Vegas, declared bankruptcy. None of his paperwork
or where he lived is there a mention of a
wife and ex wife or daughter nowhere. He never like

(01:34:21):
in other words, nobody ever knows that they divorce or
he left or god knows what happened. He left lives
us a few more years out in Las Vegas. Nobody
ever knows what happened with that. By the way, he
was married when bottom line they found her, they still
have at this point, don't know what happened to her

(01:34:42):
older daughter who was a teenager, or her younger daughter,
which was like maybe five or six. The one guy
that could have supplied answers, which was her last husband,
he's dead, So I guess because of all this time
that's gone by, Like they basically they notified now one

(01:35:03):
of her daughters from older daughters, which is now like,
this is your mom, you know this? What was it
that they called her? The oh my god, was it
the trunk lady? I believe is what they had named her.
You know, this is your mom and you have you
ever heard anything from your two sisters? And she's like no,

(01:35:23):
So at this point they have no idea. And it
was part of the story was that someone said, oh,
we saw two guys in a van pull up and
drop off that trunk, and they sped off who those
two guys were, who knows she's in a green negligee.

(01:35:44):
They wrapped a towel around her head.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
She had.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
Trauma on her head. That's what killed her. And how
she ended up in Florida getting killed, and what happened
to her two daughters still a mystery. So again, I
guess that's what happens when you don't have people checking
up on you and going what happened to you? Where

(01:36:09):
did you go? Where are you at least enough to
notify police. Getting back to the original story, which was
Bonnie's story about that's I guess part of the premise
of her book is as long as this lady is buried,
you know, under a cabin or somewhere, nobody thinks she's dead,
and when she's discovered and by there's a lot of

(01:36:32):
people that basically that's exactly what happens. They they're never discovered.
That's number one, no victim, no crime. Or number two,
even when they are discovered there whatever is left is
so difficult too that they can't even they don't know.

(01:36:56):
Sometimes they don't even know even the sex of the person,
you penny, what they find. They can't even validate was
this person killed or how were they killed? Or how
did they die or how did they In other words,
there's much less what their identity is. There's a lot
of people like that. There's a lot of cases like that,
which is I mean that even if you say, well,

(01:37:21):
I'm going to pull and by the way, this was
one of the problems they had was when they found
her in Florida. Okay, they're putting out this sketch of
her in the local Florida area, you know there, right,
But I don't think from what I understand from right way,

(01:37:41):
she hadn't been there that long. She had only in
other words, her If it was anybody that would know
what she looked like, it would have been either in
her home state in Arizona or Chicago, Detroit, wherever she
was at that could have said, hey, that's so and so.
But remember back in the sixties seventies era, if they
if that sketuler made the news, it would only have
been own on a local newscast. And of course everybody's

(01:38:03):
looking at her and who is that? Oh who knows?
So yeah, there's plenty of fodder for good who's done it?
So anyway, guys, go to mimigos Chronicles dot com. Go
to npipeltia dot com. Sign up for my new stack newsletter.
I've got a lot of great guests, a lot of
interesting stuff. Again, if you're into weird stuff, go to

(01:38:25):
Eerie News, Eerie dot News, the night Shaddiary dot com,
Supernatural story Time, And also let me know what you
think about that first little piece that I talked about
about the cattle mulations. That's gotta be one of the
most famous things that I want to say, are inexplicable
about UFOs because part of it is there's something going on,

(01:38:48):
and it's again it's like, I don't know how's this.
It's happened so many people and so many can I
say it. It's been observed or described or recorded or
tested by so many sources that it's like, what's going on? Yeah,

(01:39:10):
that animals get killed cattle. Of course, that they get
sick and die, yes, of course that happens. Yes, where
they get struck by lightning, yes, of course that happens.
But again you have too many of these different ranchers, which,
by the way, some of these cattle, I mean, they
represent a loss, a financial loss to them that they
can't figure it out, like, what is it about this

(01:39:33):
animal besides the incisions and the mutilations that you have
predators that normally would be going and basically dismantling this
thing quick, they just give it a wide berth and
they don't go. What is it about that that they
know that this thing is like what poisonous? Ill mean?

Speaker 2 (01:39:54):
What you think?

Speaker 1 (01:39:55):
Anyway, guys, I hope you like it. Come back. I
have a lot of great shows lined up, especially for
season eighteen of Stories of the Supernatural. And thanks again
for spending this time with me. You are all wonderful.
They care

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Darkness Calls | Interview with Bonnie Moore | Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Darkness Calls | Interview with Bonnie Moore | Podcast