In the Aftermath of Evil | Interview with Bob Cranmer | Podcast - Stories of the Supernatural

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Marlene with Miami Ghost Chronicles and I want
to welcome you to another episode of Stories of the Supernatural.
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(00:20):
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(00:41):
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(01:01):
at Miami ghost Chronicles dot com. Please subscribe to my
newsletter on substack just go to Mppelliser dot com for
a link. I want to thank you for being part
of my audience and I think you are all wonderful. Hi,
how's everybody doing good? I hope everything is good here.
Same thing. Like I say many times, doll is underrated,

(01:26):
doll is good. Believe me, there's times when you're like, man,
I would give anything to have just a few dull days.
But yeah, everything is good over here. I know people
ask me, how are the chickens, how are the keats? Well,
for those who don't know what that is, a keat
is a guinea chick. And last week I mentioned that

(01:46):
I've got some in I had some eggs. I'm telling
you things that we do for these animals. I basically
climbed up a ten foot burn pile having on the
property because this is where this guinea decided to lay
egg And I noticed she was up there, and I said,
you know what, these chicks they're they're they're gonna fall
and they're gonna We're not gonna So I scrattled it

(02:08):
and I got the eggs and I put them in
an incubator and I'm down to three eggs. Everything else
is hatched, and I've got them. You know, so I'm
running around with that, which is good. The pigeons are
doing good. The chicks are doing I told you, I
got my my dozen. I saw there was a run
of baby chicks with everybody. It's like, okay, so all right,
you know so. But besides that, like I said, everything

(02:32):
is uh the good. And last week, you know what
I said, Look, instead of doing the Progressive Insurance uh
weather report, I said, you know what, let me let
me talk a little bit maybe about some recent unusual
of not unusual, but weird stories that are out there,
you know, as far as that's what you will call it.

(02:56):
Let me see if I can find it here, this story,
and I want to show it to you guys, because
you know, I've always talked about the UFO things, you know,
like UFOs real or not real, and this this is
out of I haven't I've read a little bit lightly
over the story, but basically it's the headline is the
Pentagon fabricated wild UFO evidence for decades, And it's like,

(03:18):
why am I not surprised? Okay, it turns out this
is like I'm gonna summarize this real quick. For decades,
the Pentagon pushed fake UFO story, and now we know
why it was all smoke screen, not to protect the public,
but to protect their own classified systems. And you know
what another shows that you know, the subject matter has
been UFOs and extraterrestrials and blah blah blah blah blah.

(03:42):
And I always, you know, made a comment about, you
know what, what if all this stuff about the UFOs
and you know, even the starting with the I'm not
even gonna go as far back as ancient DAILI And
so I'm just gonna go maybe back to the crash
at Roswell. You know, there was always the debate whether
it was true or whether it wasn't true, whether it
was a weather balloon, blah blah blah blah, and Ilay said,

(04:04):
you know, the conspiracy has always been that it was
real and that was a big cover up. And I
just wanted to bring that up because it's like, where
does the truth lie? Okay, where does the truth lie?
As far as this UFO extraterrestrial thing. Send of your
comments on what you think is the truth? Is it accurate?

(04:26):
Is it underreported? Is it overreported? Is it truthful? Do
we have can we go the full Monty with like
you know, like the X Files where they have the
government has a hybrid treaty, you know, behind the scenes
thing going on with eighties or not really? Or is

(04:46):
it all made up? And maybe the UFOs are man made?
You know, all these things that we see that people
have seen for years, it's not really et in origin.
It's man made, all right, which would be I don't
know where does the truth lie? I think that after
a while people kind of lose like, how's this? I'm
not much of a cynic, but unfortunately this, especially this topic,

(05:08):
has made me kind of a cynic as to where
exactly the truth lies with that and in and and
this is or but but you know how they always
say there's always a button there somewhere. Where is the
truth lie? What do how's this? Do you trust? If
now they came out and when I say they, I'm
going to say government or whoever the department is or

(05:29):
who knows what who as was in charge of this
ever came out and said something said this is the truth.
It's like I think people would be like, are you sure?
You know? People nowadays are very at least me, I'm
very like how's this? Very careful about when they say,
this is the real version, unfortunately, and this is one

(05:51):
of these things, this thing with the UFO, and god
knows even when what was it back in November when
we had these drones out there by New Jersey and
everybody's wigging out, besays the Throne, or was these UFOs?
I mean everybody, I mean everybody was like and even
now you know, we're going into so much having to

(06:13):
do with I don't want to say outer space but
because that's a little bit out there, but like we're progressing,
is like, how much of this is us? How much
of is there such a thing as ets? Or no,
ET's at all? I don't know. Put your comment, but anyway,
let's get onto the good part, the good part. Who
is the guest today on Stories of the Supernatural. This

(06:34):
is the first time he's been here. His name is
Robert or Bob Cranmer. He's a former officer in the
US Army, served as Alleghany County Commissioner, and was instrumental
in a major developmental plan for Pittsburgh. Is also the
author of the book The Demon of Brownsville Road, a
Pittsburgh family battle with evil in their home in nineteen
eighty eight. Bob Kranmer and his family moved into three

(06:56):
four zero six Brownsville Road, Pennsylvania, semed faded to own
the house. As a young boy, Bob had been drawn
to the property, and just when the family decided to
move back to Brentwood, it went up for sale. Without
a second thought, they purchased the house they had always
dreamed of owning. Almost immediately, a series of strange things happened,

(07:16):
Furniture moving by itself, mysterious footsteps and knocking in the night,
and then the appearance of a terrifying, hooded, grim reaper
like figure. Before too long, it was said that a
demon had a grip on the house and all who
resided in it. In the end, the happenings reached such
a peak that an exorcist was invited to the haunted property. Ultimately, however,
only years of battle and endurance of some of the

(07:36):
most horrific paranormal activity ever reported would shake the haunting.
But soon the family began experiencing strange phenomena. Objects moving
on their own, ghostly on their own, ghostly footsteps, unsettling
moaning sounds that gradually increased in violence, escalating to physical
assaults and most disturbingly bleeding walls. Bob and his family,

(08:00):
which at that time his wife and their four children,
were under attack from a malicious demon that was conjuring
up terrifying manifestations to destroy their tight knit household. They
had two choices leave or draw on their own waving
faith to exercise the malicious fiend who haunted their home.
Bob Cranmer recounts the hiring two story, the evil presence
that tormented his family, and the epic spiritual war he

(08:22):
fought to save everything he held dear for where a
decade the house has been exercised as both peaceful and
clear of the demon. And now you can stay in
the house as it transformed richly historic B and B.
Help me welcome him. How are you doing today, Bob?

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Who I just came from checking some folks in And
it is a nice peaceful place to stay, okay, And
you know one of the reasons I did transform it
into a B and B. My life after publishing the

(08:58):
book continued to have traumatic events and so on, and
my wife and I eventually divorced and I ended up
with possession of the house, such a large mini mansion
with one person, so I transformed it into a bed

(09:20):
and breakfast, primarily just to demonstrate because of its reputation,
because of the book, that the house in fact is
clean and peaceful and free of the paranormal now well
at least free of the demonic, and so that it is.

(09:41):
I've had hundreds and hundreds of people stay there and
without any incidents. So that's the story. That's my life. Now.
I couldn't help but be intrigued with your intro about UFOs.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Yes, yeah, so I always take a look at that,
but go ahead, yes.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, if I if I. I mean, I've been invited
several times to speak to move On conferences, move on
the mutual paranormal or whatever it stands for people that
follow UFOs and and and extra treasturals. And you know,
my coming out of this experience, my coming out of

(10:24):
what you just read and actually living with a supernatural
being and interacting with it on a direct basis day
in and day out, with one foot in the supernatural
world and one foot in in the uh physical world.

(10:45):
I came out of that with not a not a
religious faith anymore. I came out of it with reality,
so that everything that that said about the Devil and
God and demons and angels and Jesus, and it's all true.
I lived it, I experienced it. It's all true. So

(11:11):
with that knowledge that I have, and people can read
my book and I've done my best to describe that
that revelation that I went through in coming to the
understanding that it's all true, I look upon the UFO
and extraterrestial debate, and I think there's three ways to

(11:36):
look at it. Well. First of all, if these UFOs
have been in fact observing us and interacting supposedly with
mankind since ancient times, where why don't they do it? Now?
Why don't they land? Why don't they show themselves? No,
they don't do that. It's it's always this this fleeting

(12:01):
vision of some craft or always something that can't be confirmed.
And furthermore, if in fact they are some type of
physical being, it is a physiological impossibility for any living
being like a human or an extra trestural to travel

(12:24):
the distances from distant galaxies with the time that's involved
to arrive at Earth from anywhere in any amount of
time that would accommodate life. So they're not landing, they're
probably not here. Could they be people from the future,

(12:46):
you know, some way mankind has evolved to a point
or progressed to a point where they know how to
go back in time, and yet they can't interact because
they could change history if they interact. That's maybe a price,
right right, that's as well. The most plausible is in

(13:09):
the Bible. It says very clearly that the devil and
his and its demons were cast out of heaven to
the earth, and the devil Lucifer is the prince and
the power of the air. And after the flood and
after the interaction that demonics had with humans prior to

(13:32):
the flood, they're not allowed to have the nect direct
interaction with us, so they have to keep a distance.
And I believe that that that the observable unexplainable UFO
sightings all surround the demonic.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
Do you think when you say that, I'm glad you
brought that up, Bob, because you know there's versions of
the et theory, which is that they're inter or interdimensional
as far as.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Traveling, and then I dealt with interdemension, right, and then.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
You see people and even go because once I tell everybody,
you know, once upon a time, UFO and et was
over here. Paranormal and ghost or anything like that was
over here where people are saying, no, these some of
these ets are really demons or demonic and the and and.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
When when you when you listen to people that have
had close up encounters, it always comes down to some
type of demonic You you see that you hear of
the symbols on the crafts, there's there's there's you know, pentagrams,
or there's triangles, pyramids, it's all has some relation to

(14:42):
the monk. And I believe that that the devil was
the princes in the power of the air. That's what
it is and what it does. It fuels people's dispolief
in a supernatural god. It says, oh, we're just one
of men eight thousands of of intergalactic civilizations throughout the

(15:08):
universe and we're just one of many, and there's no
God and that's all bologney, and they're here to visit us. No, no,
we're it.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
You even get the version that we are the in
other words, that the ones that engineeredn't you going along
those lines of what you're saying, where you know it's
that we're the product. In other words, we were made
by the ets. You know, they engineered or tweaked us, yes, exactly,
and where the and that's why they're stuck. And again
that's kind of like and I agree with you. Like again,

(15:38):
if we go back to this show Ancient Aliens, which
supposedly they have all yeah, right, it's really funny with everybody.
Everybody remembers him. It's because I was crazy here.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
I understand some of the premise as far as the mysteries,
but it's like, how long are you going to observe us?

Speaker 2 (15:56):
That's right, come on, do something? What do you want?

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, same thing the other the cattle mutilation.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
Stuff, Yeah, it's all demonic.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
It's you know that. I tell everybody, you know, this
is a finite animal, all right, I mean, how many
times are you going to need a cattle and dissected
or whatever they they do because the blood drain all
the blood or take out like they say, which coincidentally
is the less desirable parts of the of the cattle,

(16:27):
which is the utters, the the like the sexual organs,
the tongue, you know, the stuff that's like if you
have to sell that piece of cattle, that's the what
you got left over. And then of course, you know,
how many times do you need to do that?

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's demonic and all of
this ancient alien stuff. Sure, it's ancient because the demons
have been here since the beginning, and as the Bible
points out, prior to the flood, they actually interacted with

(17:04):
human beings. And I believe they're the ones who are
responsible for the building of the pyramids and all types
of things that are inexplicable. You know, one hundred pounds
a one hundred million pounds rock edifice that's on top
of some mountains somewhere. It's perfectly carved, you know, and

(17:25):
they rolled it there on logs. No. No, no.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
As a matter of fact, I was looking up recently.
It was searching an article. There's a site in Peru,
very close to Machu Pichu, and they're saying this was
this was built by they think the pre Incas. But
basically these people did not have the wheel, they didn't
have draft animals, they didn't have any of the things.

(17:47):
Now they have pieces of stone built like a fortress
that's closed. Kuskool was like their capital, and on this
hilltype of all things, it's perched on a hilltop. They
built a sports dress type of thing with some tunnels.
But you could see the stones that were quarried were
at least fifteen tons, okay, And somehow they and like

(18:07):
you said, the way it's engineered and these stones are
put together are perfectly. But they did that without the wheel,
without draft down. The only thing they had out there
are what they called the alpaca or the lamas. Those
are they're not going to carry that. And then you think, okay,
how did they do that with such precision that even

(18:30):
now you go there in the ruins that you could
see how well these things are neatly put together. Now,
Wh's really interesting, Bob, along the lines of what you
were saying, is that when the Spanish, you know, arrived
there and they you know, they they conquered the Incas,
blah blah blah blah. The missionaries there, the Catholic missionaries

(18:52):
of Spanish, they built the church, well, it was a
common and then became a church. On the foundations of that,
they had what was called amongst that was called the
Temple of the Sun. Right now, the Temple of the
Sun was considered like the most important religious site for

(19:14):
the Incas. And all of the the but they had
dominion over yes, and they built their church and convent
on the foundations of that temple, which, by the way,
and I know this, you're mean, it's like among the
you know, the incos were known for human sacrifice, including

(19:34):
child sacrifices, all right, And it makes you wonder did
they built that a religious you know, edifice on top
of the old foundation, as in to suppress the evil
let's go down that road, why not? You know, you know,
as it being a place that was used for human
sacrifice because they didn't sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
It was not an uncommon thing the Greek. In Greece,
the columns temples to the various Greek gods were converted
into churches by yes.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
I know that, many many cathedrals even now.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Exactly, and they have the pillars, they still have pillars
going down like the center of the church to mimic
because they would build below out beyond the pillars of
the temple to make the churches larger, and so so
yes they would.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
But getting back to what you were originally saying, this
is pre how did they man how were they able
to get these stones up there, you know, so perfectly
like you were saying, you know.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Well they couldn't do it today. It couldn't be done today.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
That's what.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
It could not be done today. The pyramids themselves could
not be built yesterday.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
If you had the hollow stones way up. Besides that,
you have to take them from wherever they were quarried
over there, and then eventually, as your thing is going up,
you're gonna have to take that up. I mean, I
think that they took some of these engineers and they said,
this is the only thing you got to work with.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
Yeah, they couldn't be built today. Those things couldn't be
built today. Many of the temples, and I mean these
giant stones that were quarried, it just couldn't be done,
and in fact was who knows how long ago, tens
of thousands, you know, thousands and thousands of years ago.

(21:38):
It was done. And I believe that during the pre
floods civilization where you had all of these obelests all
over the world and different locations and so on, it
was a very advanced civilization and it was from from

(21:59):
from interaction between human beings and the supernatural.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
I mean, that's what's they're realizing that a lot of
the the dates that they're giving as far as how
far back mankind and ancient civilizations that that they're off.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
They and once it progressed and there was such integration
between the supernatural beings and humans, God just said time
to start over. Time to start over. And that's what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
And that's yeah, and I think that that a lot
of But and in some cases it's really weird because
you have all these like you said, these type of
temples or big out of and they're in different continents
that normally these people, as far as is known, never
had contact among themselves.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
But the pyramids are everywhere. Pyramids are all over the world.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yes, yes they are. So they are.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, ancient aliens A Georgio, you're barking up the wrong tree.
It's all in the Bible.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Let me tell you something. It's not that ancient aliens
I think has I think it has had. I don't
think it's STI running what twelve or thirteen seasons for
so Yeah, a lot of people, I mean, some of
the stuff that presented it was I liked it.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
But still it was like a number of a number
of the individuals who are on agent e is the
ones that invited me to come and speak at several
of these conferences, and and and when I got up
and I gave my little spiel, which I just did.
I didn't know if they would boo me or you know,

(23:31):
hiss at me, or.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's like, get up the stage, up the stage.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I brought a box of my books, and before I
walked back to the table, my wife said, They're all gone.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Wow, there you go. See. Yeah, It's like, yeah, exactly exactly,
because I think a lot of people out there in
the UFO community, once upon a time, like you said,
move on and everything was strictly scientific, and I know
that move On did a lot of investigations and blah
blah blah, or they took eye witness testimony of people
that had so stuff. But now those things are crossing,

(24:05):
you know, the paranormal or even demonic. And I told everybody,
I'm sure you're familiar with Skinwalker Ranch, which out there
in Utah and the Utah Basin. Supposedly that originally it
was bought for basically because of UFO sidings. From what
I understand was that that was the original intent of

(24:25):
the study. But then later on they've had a book published.
I believe It was by George Knapp and Calm Collor.
I can't pronounce his last name correctly anyway, humph for Skinwalker,
where they had paranormal experiences even when they went back home,
pretty intense paranormal investigator experiences. I'm not talking about, oh,

(24:49):
seeing wolf like things or cryptid like, very intense sightings
for people that sometimes just worked that security and they
would go back home, maybe hundreds of miles away, and
they were starting to have extreme paranormal experiences, sightings inside
their house, something that they called the hitchhiker effect.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well I had that group come to
my house, which is in my book, and really they're
the groundbreaking group that really start the whole paranormal genre.
The group from Penn State University. Yes, had the show
Paranormal State. Yes, they were the first ones to have

(25:34):
a kind of a ghost hunting television show. Well, they
came to our house. They were in the book before
they were famous when they were an organizational club at
Penn State University. There were about ten of them that
came to the house at the invitation of the diocese

(25:55):
in Pittsburgh to basically validate all the crazy stuff that
was happening in the house, and they came twice. And
the leader of that group, his name's Ryan Buell, famous
has a big following, went on to kind of great
fame with that show. But his life really took a

(26:18):
turn for the worst. And from personal conversations with him,
and he and I are are kind of close. He
points to his involvement at our house and really what
he dealt with at our house.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yes, does as far as what as far as what
happened to him in.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
His personal life, and it kind of stayed with him.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Okay, I understand exactly what you mean.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
It stayed with him, and he would refer to it
in his episodes that this thing was following him. Really
and so whatever, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Let me ask you something when they went there, because
I know sometimes groups will go to certain places and
nothing happened, and like, wow, did when they went there?
Did they have did they experience anything?

Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah? The only thing I can say is they up
until that point, we were having a very difficult time
understanding this thing, okay, And and they came kind of reckless,
but they had spoken with a a kind of a

(27:32):
paranormal I don't want to say medium a paranormal you know,
a woman that's connected to understanding and being able to
discern different paranormal activity. And she was from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania,

(27:55):
and she was supposed to come with them on the
first visit to our house, and it was all scheduled.
She was gonna come, and as I said, about ten
of them came from penn State. And at the last
minute she said, I can't go there. It's just too dangerous.

(28:16):
It's too dangerous, and I recommend that you not go
there either, because it can have a lasting impact and
do lasting damage to you. So she told us to Ryan, yeah,
and his group yes, and they obviously, well we're going.
We're gonna get anyway. So she said, well, when you

(28:38):
do go, what you need to do is access the
void at the center of the house. That's all they
she said, you must access the void at the center
of the house. So the first thing they asked me
when they arrived was is there avoid at the center
of the house, And I said, well, yes, there is,

(29:04):
and yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Instead of being what are you talking about, huh.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Once we accessed the void, which was basically the domain
or the layer so to speak, of the demonic entity,
all hell broke loose, All hell broke loose. After that,
in the house, it just became panic.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Even they left.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
When they left, yeah, when they left second time. And
then the church told them, we don't want you to
come back anymore because it's just too dangerous for you
to be right, We don't want you to be involved
with the battle against this thing. You did your job,
you you you you document it right, what what's going on?

(29:52):
That's all we want, Thank you very much. And then
they went on to their great fame, but Ryan and
paid a price for it.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
So, in other words, once they got that feedback from
them who had never been there before, I guess the
church said, Okay, there's got to be something there.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
And this is in any exorcism. Before before exorcisms take place,
they'll have say a psychologist or yeah, a doctor or
psychiatrist examined the person that is possessed to basically come
up with a conclusion, I don't know what's wrong with

(30:29):
this person. You know, it's not mental. This is some
deep seated issues that I don't understand. And that's basically
what they were doing. Because devons can possess objects, they
can possess places, localities and possess people. Well, in our case,
they possess the locality, the area that the house was

(30:52):
built on the land, the land.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yet okay, all right, And because I know that, yeah,
they do sometimes send in teams because unfortunately, many, many
times some of these claims there really what is going
on is mental illness on the part of the person.
So I know they always want to discount that totally.
And in some cases, I know you can have both.

(31:15):
For example, I know doctor Richard Gallagher did it for
many years for the Catholic Church to verify and in
the book that he wrote when he was getting into
that that basically they were asking him, as a professional,
can you please interview this person and verify that they're
not suffering from some type of mental illness. And he

(31:39):
described because I was I read his book where at
the very beginning he had a few experiences that were supernatural.
He had a hard time, you know, the scientists in
him coming to terms with Yeah, no, he like, you know,
he stayed there. He did it for twenty something years.
I believe he's not doing anymore, but yeah, you could

(32:00):
tell you. He describes at the beginning he had a
really hard time coming to terms that the supernatural actually existed.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
Well, what's what's the name of that movie that came
out a couple of years ago? And nefarious?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
I think insidious? Insidious? I think which one is it?

Speaker 2 (32:19):
It's the one where the reporter goes into a prison
to interview a possessed man. I think it's nefarious.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
It might be ne farious. I'm sorry. Sometimes some of
these movie titles are like.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
What Yeah, but it was amazing. It was amazing how
this thing would go back and forth, like the true
person in the body would come out for a certain
period of time.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yes, you're absolutely right. Yeah, it came out in twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Three, and then the demon would would oppress it again.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
And you want me to tell you something? What movie
the I don't know if you ever saw any Exorcist
the number three, which George C. Scott and it was
if you ever seen the number two, because you know
how when they do follow up some movies, it's like, man,
why did you do that? You just left the original
movie standalone. Number three in and of itself is an

(33:12):
excellent because basically it's the same thing. George C. Scott
is a detective and he's investigating some murders going on,
and who he goes to see in a psychiatric hospital
is father Damien from the original movie, who's being held

(33:35):
in a psychiatric hospital. I'm not gonna tell you anymore.
And I don't know if at this point you would
ever want to see the movie. But it's it's a
same thing, people having a hard time when they find
themselves in that scenario actually accepting that this does exist
in our world.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, well, I can attest to it. I can tell
you that, you know what I went through for several
years with the with the actual struggle in the battle
in the house, and then the struggle I went through
to write the book and get it published.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Or really even writing the book.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
You had a hard time, Oh yeah, just to get
through it and to get it published. And then after
the book was published, it was like outing the mob. Really,
my life, my my family, my family paid a price,
my marriage, you know, failed. It's been somewhat. I could

(34:43):
probably write another book just based upon my life since And.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
You know what, now that you bring that Upot, let
me ask you, since you've had these all these because
when you were going through it, what you were going
through it, But now that you can basically look back
at these experien instance, maybe starting from when you bought
the house, what would your advice be to anybody in
a similar situation.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Get away from it, Just get away from it. It's
it's just it's it's just so powerful and so difficult
to deal with, and it can you know. At one

(35:30):
point in my story, I call it the red pill
Blue pill decision, where a senior member of the staff
of the Dyces of Pittsburgh said to me, you have
a choice to make. You can move and sell this
house to some someone else and wish them the best

(35:52):
and we'll we'll bless the house and so on, and
you can you can move on like the folks who
sold it to us, did I was about to Yeah.
Or you can stay and we can fight this and
we'll fight it together. I'm not sure where it will go.

(36:14):
This is this is a powerful entity. So that's your decision.
So it's the red pillar or the blue pill. So
so I like what was his name in the in
the matrix Neo went down the rabbit hole. Yeah, I
chose to go down the rabbit hole. I made some mistakes.
My family paid a price for it. I've been criticized

(36:37):
highly for putting my family through this and not leaving.
But I believe that that the story is more than
a spooky ghost story or a spooky paranormal story. It
really points to the fact of the existence of good

(37:00):
and evil, the existence of God and the devil. And
I've had many more than one people come to me
and say, listen, I didn't have any faith, I didn't
have any belief or understanding of anything religious or supernatural
until I read your book, and it really stopped me

(37:20):
in my tracks and made me think, because I do
now believe that there is so if that's the price
I had to pay to deliver that message, And I
think this book will live on long after I'm gone
because there is a message to it. It makes some people.

(37:40):
It either verifies what people already believe, it leads them
to believe the truth, or it makes them very angry.
And I've seen all of it come through reviews on
Amazon where I'm a great brave hero guy that faced
off evil, or I'm a a no good rat. You know,

(38:07):
make up stories put my my children and family in
harm's way, egotistical. I mean, they'll write paragraph after paragraph
about what a bad guy, I am.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Do you think that the people that sold you the
house did they ever I don't know, because I imagine
that if you have a conscience, like because basically this
is what you just described, like if I stay here
or if I sell this is this going? Do you
think that they were ever bothered?

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Oh, there's no question, and I detail that in my book. Okay,
you know when things started happening after we moved in
the house, and we we initially thought, okay, we bought
a haunted house. We bought a house with a spirit.
But hopefully it's it's it's benevolent and you know, cast
for the ghost and we can live with it. There
are a lot of haunted houses and haunt at hotels

(39:00):
and things that people you know, ghosts or the spirits
of people that once lived. And if they're normal people,
you know it, right, there's something you live with. But
the demonic is something altogether different. So I called the guy.
A few months after we moved in, I found a

(39:24):
box buried out in the yard near one of the
corners of the property that had holy rosary beads and
a scapular and some Catholic items in it, and it
was not an old box. I could tell it had
been been placed there relatively recently. It was like a

(39:46):
metal shoecretes box. And I asked him, Hey, what's this
all about? He said, please just put it back. Put
it back where you found it, Bury it where you
found it. That's all I'll say. So Well, then years later,
after we had gone through everything, and I was trying
to document his, you know, historic facts about the house

(40:09):
and trying to find out and interview previous people who
had lived there and what they had experienced, and talking
to folks that knew about that, I called the owner
again and I said, hey, how you doing. You know, hey,
Bob blah blah, you know, talk to him for a while.
I did this to the house and that Hey, you
know what I said, I kind of would like to
get together with you if you wouldn't mine. Have a

(40:31):
cup of coffee, and you know, we'll meet down to
local restaurant, and you know, we've had some really interesting
things happened to us in this house over the past
few number of years, and I'd like to compare it
to what you may have experience.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
I don't think he went to that meeting, and.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
There was a silence, and he said, let me get
back to you. I never heard from him.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
Are you still waiting for that phone call?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Right? Well? Interesting, interestingly enough, both he and his wife,
both of them died within six months of the book
being before the book was published.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Really why both of them?

Speaker 2 (41:15):
Both of them died within six months of the book
being published, And I gave them a fictitious name in
the book, a last name that was fictitious. I did
talk about my asking him before I bought the house,
is there anything wrong with this house? And he said, oh, no,
there's nothing wrong with the house. You would have thought

(41:36):
he would have asked me to clarify what I meant
by wrong, But his response was, oh, we've had mass
in the living room. Who has mass in their living room?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Let me tell you something. I tell you this is
I'm going to tell you my own quick story here
because I used to the paranormal investigation since the nineties
for a really long time. One time we went to one.
This was in Florida. I've always lived in Florida and
we go to we go to an investigation. These people
are moving from their house, but they're moving up to
North or South Carolina, right, and they're concerned. They don't

(42:09):
want whatever was there to follow them, right, So I said, well,
what's what's the background on what happened with you guys?
And she they said that when they bought this house, okay,
when they move in, it was full of angels, angels inside,
angels outside, angel's angels, angels, angels everywhere. So they went
to the real estate agent and they said, hey, what's

(42:30):
up with all these angels? And they didn't take them
with them. You know, they have statues outside, statues inside.
And the realtor tells them. She goes, the family that
was here was they were I want to say, like
porn again Christians. I'm not sure exactly what denomination she says,
but she goes. On the on the day of the closing,
I came to pick them up, and she says, and

(42:52):
I'm Jewish and they made me go into a prayer
circle before they we left for the closing. So she says,
and that's the only thing. She says. He goes, I
went along with it because oh, that's okay with me,
And that was the real estate agent. Well, what it
was was what they did was basically it took it

(43:14):
from out inside the house to outside the house. Okay,
but that's how they kind of like found out, like
because they saw these angels. They she told me, the
girl told me. She goes, look there was angel little
angel statues all over the house. Inside, there was a
bunch of angel stuff outside in the yard everywhere. And
we're like thinking, like, why didn't they take these things

(43:35):
with them? It must have cost them, you know, some
type of money. And again when they asked the real
estate agent, the real estate agent tells them no, she goes,
we went they had to have this prayer. And they
pulled me in there and I was like, okay, sure,
and she couldn't.

Speaker 2 (43:49):
The problems continued when the new people moved in.

Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yes, yes they did.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
It didn't welcome to my world? Right.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
But again, you know, like exactly like when you just
described when you're asking this gentleman, is anything wrong and
he's telling you we had a mass, that's like what
an unusual answer? Okay, Well that's good. You know that's
instead of asking you what do you mean? I mean? No,
the roof is good and the plumbing is good.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
What yeah, what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (44:12):
He knew what I was right, right, right right exactly what.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
My wife said, this house is creepy. I don't like it.
I don't want to buy this house. This place is creepy.
And that's what led me to ask him that.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Okay, and and and which is, by the way, which
is what normal house buyers are. You know, hey, there's
a plumbing good?

Speaker 2 (44:34):
You know?

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Is the roof leak? You know, that's what most people
when they is there anything.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Wrong with this house? Should say? Okay, well, what do
you mean wrong?

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Right?

Speaker 2 (44:44):
No, right away? He said, no, no, no, We've had
masks in our in the living room twice.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
I'd be like, and were they Catholic? Just out of curiosity? Okay,
all right, but still let's face it that that to
have a mouse in the your house.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Yeah, Masses, like I say, math is isn't something they
take on the road. No, no, no, no, no, Now
we had We ended up having Mass in almost every
room in the house because it was a weapon against evil. Sure,
the team of priests that that worked with us, we
would say the Rosary, we would say Mass. We would

(45:20):
be blessed in sense, you name it. We did it.
But I mean, just to have a priest come to
your house and say Mass, No, the church doesn't do.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
That most more than mostly what people have them for houses.
It's like a house blessing. All moving into a house a.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
House blessing, that's it. And we had a house blessing
when we moved in the house, which was interesting in
and of itself. Now again, the book is called The
Demon of Brownsville Road. Yes, and I really think and
I'm not a a ficion auto or a great interest
in in this, you know, demonic stuff, but I have

(45:58):
seen the movies. I seen movies. There's not a story
out there except maybe for the original Exorcist story, which
was based on a true story that compares to this,
and all the different components that go into it. Of
evil and the name of the demon we found out,

(46:25):
and the fact that there was a grizzly murder that
took place in the basically the front yard of the
house back in the seventeen hundreds, and the bodies are
buried right there in the front yard, and we discovered
all this.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
See that's why I mentioned that, Bob, because see you,
I don't want to say if it's the benefit, but
you've lived there for so long, because you see a
lot of these movies, even stories or books are people
that live at a certain location, maybe a few months
or maybe even years. Well, weeks, yeah, a couple of Well,
let's go with the amitiville horror. Thirty days later they
were out of there. Yeah, yeah, even if you know,

(47:01):
whether you wanted to believe it was an actual haunting
or not. Thirty days later they're like, we're out of here.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Well, I mean I was up close and personal with
this thing. We would have contests of between each other.
I would talk to it, we communicate it. I mean,
I lived with this thing, and we battled back and
forth almost on a daily basis. After I learned how

(47:31):
I could make its existence in the house as miserable
as it was making hours and then it just became
a battle of wills. So I remember one time my
wife and I we spent the night in an old,
old hotel that went back to the seventeen hundreds, and

(47:52):
the staff left and they said, you're the only folks
here tonight. We have to tell you that this place
is haunted. He be like, all right, yeah, okay, I said,
you better tell the ghosts that I'm here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
I know that mustn't have been like okay, all right, I.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Said, let them know that I'm here, maybe they'll leave
let me.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
That must have been funny. It's like, yeah, all right, okay,
it's like it's like it's going to be a hard
thing to like from where I'm coming. Did you did
whatever was there? Did it ever follow you outside the
house as far as the premises or was it balanced me?

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I'll tell you, well, the one thing I will say
is that my daughter lived in the house for a
time with her husband, and she had a newborn, a
small baby, okay, And one night we her husband walked

(48:53):
into the little nursery room to see this black figure
kind of looming over the baby's crib, okay, And that
really was one of the first things to kick off
the whole situation. Well, I moved when that happened. I
moved them out of the house. I rented a house

(49:14):
for them a few blocks away, and I moved her
and and the baby out of the house to this
rental property. And I'll tell you, for about a month
it followed them there. Really actually had to have the
priests that were fighting in our house go to her
house and bless her house. And it didn't stay with her,

(49:39):
but it did follow her there right.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
The reason why I ask is that you know, everybody
always thinks typically of huntings as that it's this one
place and strictly and that this whatever is there, and
sometimes you know, you hear them become attached to people
or like like what you just described, where they're like the.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Difference between the the morning and ghosts. I think ghosts,
whatever ghosts are or whatever reason ghosts exists, and maybe
it's the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, right. People have to
stay in some particular place and time and situation for
a period of time before they move on, and it's

(50:19):
always usually associated with an event or a location or
something that they keep reliving. Whereas the demonic, you know,
they're just it's like dealing with an invisible person and
they'll follow you. And the danger of these ghost hunting

(50:44):
groups that take it as some type of an extracurricular activity,
a hobby.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
So the space you.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Don't know what you're dealing with. You could be dealing
with a ghost of Aunt Martha who lost her son
and is looking for a you know whatever, or you're
dealing with a demon and those demons will hurt you
and they'll leave with you and follow you. And I
think that's why it's so dangerous for young children to

(51:11):
play with woodsiboards. Yes, they'll conjure up spirits with those
boards that will attach themselves to the people that are
playing what they feel is playing a game, and it'll
affect them for the rest of their lives.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Well, I tell everybody, whenever I would get a case
or I would hear that they say, oh, it's a
little kid, I'd be like, oh, I say, I'm very
very very careful. Anything that's described as a child, I said,
whatever is very manipulative. And because what does the most

(51:48):
human adults do when you say a child, everybody's guard
comes down. It's a little kid. Oh, oh my god,
Yeah it's a kid or a child, Oh my god. Okay,
poor thing. So whenever it was like nope, nope, that's
not good.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
But it's like it's like it's like talking to someone
on the internet that you don't know who they are,
where they're at, you know exactly, and you.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Know what and even when you were talking about you know,
all these paranormal groups, including that you know that they
do some of the sometimes this provocation or confrontation. I
was like, you know, what I know. Sometimes some of
these shows they're a little bit over the top, you know,
and sometimes it's like but it's like, you know what
exactly what you just said, you really don't know, you know,

(52:33):
for all you know, Yeah, it might just be thin air.
Who cares?

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Well if it's not that one gross hunter group, the
guys that yell and carry on and everything they had
that show approached me to come to.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Our really okay, no way, no way, canine.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
What we went through to put a lid on this stuff.
I don't want you coming here and opening anything back
up again.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
So that would have been yes, no way in a
world yes.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
As if anyone tries to come to that house and
you know, ghost hunters, can we come to your house
and search?

Speaker 1 (53:13):
Like no, yeah, no, no, no, absolutely not. I can't imagine.
I don't blame you at all. I don't blame you
at all because people it's like, because it's like, you know,
a lot of times people don't understand that when they
do that provocation confrontation, basically you're inviting it. Yeah, the

(53:34):
lines of communication.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
And that's why I mean I always made sure every
time I spoke to that thing, I always I would
I would talk very strongly and make demands of it.
But it always was was encompassed not in my authority,

(53:56):
but in the name of Jesus Christ. Exactly, in the
name of Jesus Christ, you are going to leave through
his power and his cross and his blood, not through
my determination. I'm just the vessel here that's being used, exactly.
So I always had to make sure that I would

(54:16):
preface my statements.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
And now now that you mentioned that, getting back to
what we were originally talking about, some people say, hey,
that these ets are demonic in nature, and some people
have pointed out because some people go, oh, oh, come on,
you know one thing, and some people have said, where
there's been abductees or contact, well, but let's say with
the abductees where they do use the name of Jesus Christ,

(54:42):
and this repels the ets. So makes you think, Okay,
if you're just an et from another planet or another
dimension or whatever, what would it matter if you invoke
the name of Jesus Christ. It would be like, well, okay,
but no, it repels them, which.

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Is which is what it's demonic.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
That's why, because and that's what people think. This is
not the it came from whatever the plaitings or whatever.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Another another thing I think comes from that dimension bigfoot.
I think this clip some way plays into that as well,
because these things appear and they disappear, Yes, and there's
never any signs, there's never anything that they can track.
These things appear and they disappear. I believe there's some

(55:30):
form of demonic entity, right, and some people come through
a portal of another dimension.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Right, it could be a rip, it could be a portal.
Some people's they're one and the same or you know,
if there's a rip or portal and they oh, if
that's opening up, they just skip out. Like but a
lot of people that tractice have found like a spike
in UFO sidings and then it dovetails with a spike
encrypted or bigfoot sightings.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Okay, yeah, yeah, there's no question it's all some way related.
And whether it's all the creepy stuff on this skin
walk or ranch, that's all demonic. It's all demonic, you know,
and it only makes sense because it's all documented.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Let me tell when you read when you read the description,
because see the owners prior to the Shermans, which it
was a couple and they bought the property out there
like in the nineteen thirties. They lived out there, and
then when they died, it went to the man's brother.

(56:36):
He was the one that sold it to the Big
Oeld the company. The people that lived out there lived
out there for like sixty years supposedly, you know, the
brother said, no, they never said anything about well not
even paranormal about UFO sightings. They never described anything with
the UFOs. And then you hear what the Shermans, which

(56:58):
were the people that basically bought it do for ranch.
All they wanted was just a ranch that they had
all these I mean over the top, over the top experiences.
It's like, were those people not saying anything when they
lived here for sixty years and they just decided to.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Like keep it to themselves.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Yeah, But then again you hear that that piece of land,
even according to the Native Americans that lived there already
had that ridge already had a bad reputation to begin with.
So you know, and then again is it UFOs or
is there something else? Because like I said, they've seen
something like dog men. They would hear like like machinery

(57:44):
sounds like heavy machinery coming out from the underground. I
mean stuff that you're like, what in the world is
It's not a ufo ET kind of thing. This is
it was incredible And even now, I'm sure you've seen
that they have that show out there that they can't
make head or tails of. What's the phenomena that they
have going on out there? Basically, I want to laugh
real quick. Basically, what was going on with your camera

(58:06):
where I don't know you've seen all the equipment malfunctions?

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Yeah, I mean yeah, it plays havoc with electronic equipment. Yes, yes,
in our house we would have to you know, the
clocks would stop, and coffee makers wouldn't work, and you know,
so many TVs would quit working, and it was amazing, right.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
And again we get into the you know how much
of it? Well, what we understand the nature of it is.
Let me ask you the the priests that helped you
out or the are they still around? Do they ever
check up on you?

Speaker 2 (58:44):
Or one of them one of them passed on to
the other two priests. Yeah, I keep in pretty regular
contact with them. They're they're they're up in age, up
up in a up in years now. The one major guy,
he's probably in his upper eighties now and he still

(59:08):
has a radio show he has for at least thirty
forty years every Sunday night that I listened to. And
then Father Mike Selvagna. Uh, he's in Scranton, PA. And
uh we we contact each other every every couple of months.
And yeah, I mean the Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh went

(59:31):
public on my story before my book was published, and
and on their own on their own verified every every
every page of my book and their involvement in it.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
Sometimes they don't want to talk about stuff.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
Like that as far as me just you know, some
guy coming up with some crazy story and writing it down.
There are just too many other notable, uh reputable people
like the Bishop of Pittsburgh. You know it said, Yeah,
both two bishops of Pittsburgh both you know, endorsed the book.

(01:00:17):
So yeah, it's it's let me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Ask you by this. I'm not going to say your neighbors,
because you know, before neighborhoods, there's at the place that
would you have his land? You know, usually these are
bigger parcels of land before it gets subdivided and built on,
et cetera. Did you ever have any of the people
in the church ever tell you that they had similar

(01:00:42):
type of happenings in that location or in that general
area within a certain of miles.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
There was there was another house very closely associated with
our house a walk away, and it was very well
known as the haunted house of the neighborhood. It's said, okay,
it's sat empty for thirty years.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
That's pretty haunted.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Yeah, it's sat empty. It's sat empty from the late
nineteen fifties until the nineteen eighties, and it had quite
a reputation to it. And my story pulled it all together, okay,
and its association with my house and what transpired, and

(01:01:27):
you know, there's the stories in there about the mob
and you know, organized crime and just a lot of
evil stuff. Evil begets evil, begets.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Evil, right, right, And that's why I'm saying, I know,
sometimes the church is privy. Like you said, people keep
things under wraps, but they're privy to certain things happenings
in certain houses that that you and nobody would ever know.
And I'm not talking about the typically haunted house where
they could say, you know what, there's a house maybe

(01:01:59):
a mile or half a mile away from here that
at one point was part of this area where where
we know because we're behind the scenes as a church
that had a very very similar experience or description. But
you're saying that this is just down the block from you,
then yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
A block away. Yeah wow, Yeah, it's very closely associated.
And yeah it's a it's a very deep story all
centered around a demon that loved to kill children.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
All right, So okay, okay, well you know what that.
I mean that that's a whole other show. But yes,
which you know, you find that a lot in You
know that that's a common denominator in any.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
Type sacrifice, human sacrifice.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
But children, type of invocations, or any type of these
different cults, whether they call themselves Satanists or they call
themselves whatever. You know, that's one of the common denominators
that you find is human sacrifice, you know, or that we.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Were given for this demon that was in the house
was Moloch. Okay, And Moloch is a biblical, yes, biblical
character demon demon that was the god of the Canaanites. Yes,
the Canaanites and their their whole uh, their whole deal

(01:03:32):
was child young baby boys, right, killing baby boys, infants right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
And if you you know the I believe the the
part of the Moloch or anything. It originated with the
people the Carthaginians.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
The Canaanites, yeah, prior to that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
And they they if you read them, because you think
that some of these families, I believe it or not,
we're well off. And they would to assure themselves their
continued standing or whatever you want to call it in
the community, they would give up their own young to

(01:04:12):
be sacrificed. In other words, this was not, uh, we're
going to take the kid from you. They were willingly
giving them the children up for that. Yeah, which is
this is that's horrible, it's horrible, but yes, right, And
one time they were looking at it from an anthropological like, oh,
was this was you know, was the uh when they

(01:04:34):
were doing this where they're going through some type of
famine or you know, they were like a version of
population control? You know, was this the reason why they
were doing this? And they were saying no, that at
that time, the populace of the city, first of all,
the city everything, it was doing well economically. There was
enough food. This was not like hey, we're we're suffering
because we don't have enough food, and this is an

(01:04:58):
indirect way of population control. That none of those none
of those motivators were there. This was strictly you know,
blood ceremony. In other words, well you know that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
I'm sure you're you're familiar with with with orbs, Yes,
orbs that generally can be seen. They can't always be
seen by the naked eye, but they can always be
seen in pictures. You can be standing, you know, right
in front of an orb and not see it, but
pull a camera up and you'll see it clearly. Our mind,

(01:05:34):
for whatever reason, can't process it. Animals can see them,
but we can't. But you can take pictures. It's amazing.
You can go on the battlefield of Gettysburg at night
and take a series of pictures and you wouldn't believe
how many orbs you'll see. But nonetheless, there's a picture

(01:05:56):
in my book. Uh, the final scene, the final confrontation
with the demon was in a room in the basement
that was once used to store coal. These old houts
burned coal and it was the coal storage room and
that's where the final confrontation took place. And I took

(01:06:19):
a picture of this room for the book, just to
represent it, and I said, this is the room where
it happened. Well I got the picture and you can
actually see this in the book. Remember the Lawrence Welk show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
Remember all to watch that Lawrence, all the little.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Bubbles that would begin. Yes, that room looked like the
Lawrence Welk Show. It was filled with hundreds of little
tiny orbs that represent I believe all the children that
were killed in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Wow, that's that's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
All the children that were killed in the house. It
was used as it was used it as an illegion, illicit,
illegal abortion clinic for for a long time. Yes, the
babies would be burned in the furnace.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
In the in the basis to get rid of the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Proof of the Yes, I believe all all those little souls,
all those little orbs were still trapped there in the house.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Let me see. I wanted to, uh, so I could
show that Bob, this is the this is the the
cover of the book. All right, I think I think
I'm showing right now. What's uh, this is the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
So there are pictures in the right that I was going.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
To say, you have actual pictures in the book.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Yeah, there are pictures in the book, and one of
them show you can still you can look closely and
see the orbs on the pictures.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
For those that maybe you want to buy the book and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Read it right. Well, by the way, let me tell
you something. You've got about almost a thousand. You've got
a almost five star four point nine nine feedback, four
point three out of almost one thousand reviews on it. Okay,
which is great.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Oh, on the book, Yes, on the book.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
On the book, yeah, I mean as far as the
what you know, however you end up feeling about it? Yeah? Yeah,
I can tell three hundred and thirty pages. This is
on the kindle edition. Yes, so the Let me ask
you and have your Have you had any guests that

(01:08:49):
have had not because they were looking for it, not
because they did anything. Have you had any guests that
I've had any experiences?

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
No? Okay, it's funny. Just so you brought that up.
Just this weekend, I had a woman who came here
from another state whose daughter lives locally, and and you know,
the house is very well known locally. It got so
much publicity. You know, it's like me to horror house.

(01:09:19):
So I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
What this is.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
She goes, Oh, I brought a spirit box with me.
I don't know what a spirit box? Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, yeah,
and I and she said, oh I. I cried the communicy.
I said, please, please, don't do anything like that here,
please take it away. Don't do that here, don't do it.

(01:09:47):
And she said, oh, I didn't you know they think
it's some kind of game.

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
Yes, exactly, exactly, think it's.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Some kind of game, like they're playing a game. And
I said, please, please don't do anything like that here,
don't do it. So hopefully she didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
I was gonna say, yeah, no, I know some people
they want to. I mentioned that there's people sometimes that
want to have that that aha moment that you know,
these people that join these paranormal teams because they want
to have the Yeah, they see the reality shows and
they want to have the And then every once in
a while, you know, be careful what you wish for. Yeah,

(01:10:26):
then they get the full monthy and then they're like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Yeah, and it'll absolutely absolutely yes.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
I tell everybody you know. I was a practicing hypnotherapist
for many years, and people that had had different experiences
with things that they had seen or witnessed that they
would call me, and on more than one occasion, well
for anxiety and lack of sleep. And I had one
gentleman one time, among others, tell me, can you hypnotize
me to forget this that I saw this? I said, no,

(01:10:58):
I can't. I can't can help you remember stuff if
you know what it is. Sometimes I had people that
put stuff away really really well and they just can remember.
I said, no, I can't do that, and then I
would tell them, but what's going on?

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
Tell me you know what would make you want to
do that? Because people want to go back to that
moment before they witnessed something, because their world changes. That
experience or what they witness is like a marker in
their life. Everything that you know, the the AD, the
BC to the a D, this is like before that event,

(01:11:32):
whatever it was, either the experience or they witnessed it
or something, their understanding of the world changes and they
want to go back to what they were. But you
cannot see what you see. So I had, you know,
throughout the time, for different reasons, people coming to me
with predicaments, mostly you know, high anxiety, god's lack of sleep,

(01:11:57):
wanting to sleep, couldn't stay asleep, you name it, you know.
So I understand that sometimes people they don't know what
they're asking for when they do stuff like that when
they're opening the because they get caught up again with
reality shows and movies and they think, oh, you know,
it's like, you know what, tell you what the difference

(01:12:17):
is when you go to the movies at the end,
the credits roll and you get up and you go home.
But it's not at your house. Everything changes when it's
at your house. Like what you just explained how things
sometimes the next thing you know, you're experiencing things at
the house.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
And then on to change you. I still about once
a year, I have what's a preventive maintenance that I do.
It's about a two hour long ritualistic blessing that I
go through. Yes that I know how to do, I
know what to do that. It kind of puts a
lid on anything that may show up, just in case.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
You got people like that going in there. And she
was she kind of blabbed about it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
You know, well, apparently she got a name through this box.
She gave me the name and I said, I don't
know what you're talking about. I don't know a name
like that. I have no idea. Please, I don't do
that here. Do not do that here. It's dangerous.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Her curiosity she had to give you that name just
to see if you would react and say, hey, yeah, no,
did you really not recognize them? No?

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
I did not.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Okay, Bob is like going No, I never heard of that,
And you know, if.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
I looked into it in detail, maybe I could have
found No.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
No, no, I'm just not don't do that. But I'm
just saying that some of these people, like I said,
they get caught up with the I don't know, the
sensationalism when they see these shows, and then they don't
they do stuff. And maybe in this case, this lady
mentioned that she was going to do this for the
ghost Bus that afterwards they are like uh again, because

(01:14:06):
then you know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
You experience It's it's amazing. I mean with them, the
things I went through. One time, I woke up in
bed at night. I was completely turned around in bed.
My feet were on my pillow, and my head was
at the base of the bed. My wife was pulling
bed normally. I woke up backward. I had not left,
I had not gotten up. I had I don't sleepwalk.

(01:14:30):
I didn't get up to go to the bathroom and
come back and get in. No, I woke up. It
would do things like that to me on purpose, to
to like try to unsettle me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:41):
Sure, of course, And that's the thing people don't realize
that contrary to sometimes and I'm sure you're gonna God,
God knows you know better than anybody else, Bob, that
you know, everybody, like I said, looks at the movies
and they think it's just a flying end. Basically, the
attack sometimes is on a psychological level, Okay, where it

(01:15:02):
did stuff like that, you would think, well, so you
woke up with your feet on the pillow and you're
but when you start putting all these things together little
by little.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
Yeah, I don't even talk about the scratches and the
bites and right, all the things that yes and fall
down the steps and you know, it pushes down the
steps and you know you end up at the bottom
of the steps. That happened on a regular basis.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Right. And also I'm glad you mentioned because another thing
that I want to say is a misleading that a
lot of people think that when you get let's say,
whether it's a group or religious you know, clergy or whatever,
whether it's a deliverance minister or a priest, that they
come and clap a thunder and it's over. They they
cleansed your house and that's it. And I beg two

(01:15:49):
different you confirmed it. Even after that, you still got
to keep working at it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Oh, it's it's yeah, it's I had a post traumatic
stress condition that lasted for years.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I'm not surprised that I'm not surprised, and that's incredible.
But as a matter of fact, I see why you
would have.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
Every little thing that happened, you know, and when you're
sitting there and you see stuff flying across the room
right in front of you, you know, you know, things
would fly. I'd be talking to my wife and some
would fly across the room. I'd just go pick it
up and put it back where it was like it
didn't even happen, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
Yeah, after a while, it just becomes like, you know,
you gets to sensitized to like.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
We wouldn't let it, we wouldn't let it get us
because it was designed to like freak us out. It
was designed to have an effect. And then we finally
got to the point where we laughed at it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
You know, there you go, he laughed at it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
And you know when the one time I talk in
the book where where I had a white shirt that
I had worn to work, and I pad it on
the clothes tree and and I came up and there
was streak of blood that was it was down the
back of the shirt, a streak of blood. And I
hadn't blood or anything. I mean the thing. It covered

(01:17:09):
all the walls in the house with this blood. And
I said, what what did you do that for? I
just right, I scold it, right, why did you do that?
Put it in somewhere? What you put it on the shirt? Now,
that doesn't impress me. You have to understand, I'm not frightened.
It doesn't impress me. I'm angry. Don't mess with the

(01:17:31):
I still have the shirt and the blood's still on.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
It, right exactly, but exactly, And that I believe it
or not. That that change in your reaction was crucial
because instead of winging out like oh my god, it's like, really,
you know, don't do that. You know, like when you've
got a dog that peeted on your furniture and you're like,
why did you do that? That kind of that kind

(01:17:53):
of deal, like, okay, exactly exactly, I believe it or
not that right there corner, you know, yeah, No, it's like,
you know, you're making you know, you're you're inconveniencing me.
You're not scaring me. It's just inconvenient. Yeah, and that
that that that counts for a lot, believe it or not.
As far as so, let me, how are you going
to write another book?

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
It was so much work that book was. It was
a lot of work to write, Okay, and you know,
my my, my mission in doing it was to tell
the story and to tell it in a way that
it was. It's like a ministry, it's a sermon. It's
it's a life changing it has a message to it

(01:18:41):
that really can impact somebody's soul. And and and that
was my That's what I wanted. So all the interviews
and all the the the videos that have been made,
and the television programs that have been made, and hopefully
at some point there's a movie. I had a movie

(01:19:04):
deal once and COVID came along and killed it. I'm
not surprised.

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
Long ago though.

Speaker 2 (01:19:11):
Yeah. Yeah, Anyway, I believe the message of the book
is something that tens of thousands of people have read
the book, uh, And and that message has has uh
is being you know, perpetuated and spread and hopefully it
continues to be. It's been over ten years since I

(01:19:34):
published it, and it's still the book still sells very well.
And to me, it's a it's kind of like preaching
a sermon where I'm not there, but tens of thousands
of people and a lot of people read it that
don't even go to church.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
And that's what I'm saying, I'm sure to hear that message.
They look at it for they purchased it for the
scare factor.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
Yeah, and they get a message of the supernatural and
of God through it. So my my, I just feel
that that that's why I encountered so much difficulty in
in in succeeding they get it published and and Evil

(01:20:18):
did not want it to be published because I believe
it demonstrates that evil is true.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
But what happened when, first of all, did you run
I know that you ran problems you're saying when you
were writing it, Yes, okay, as I know sometimes when
they say life kits in the way. But what kind
of experiences did you have that you're like, oh, come on, now,
you're messing with me.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
I guess it was in the in the in the
process of understanding the publishing business. It was really before
the whole thing of self publishing, and I had to
deal with getting an agent and getting a publisher. Now, ultimately,
Penguin ran in the Mouse published it. Okay, biggest publishing

(01:21:03):
houses there is, yes, But to get into that world
if you're not a notable celebrity, who they say, why
don't you write a book and we'll have someone write
it for you and put your name on it and
we'll make a lot of money. You know, Hillary Clinton
or something like Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
The ghostwriters.

Speaker 2 (01:21:21):
Yeah, So I thought I had to have a ghostwriter
that understood how to do that, and I wrote the
manuscript and I had this ghostwriter write a book from
my manuscript. So I went through three different ghostwriters. One
of them, the first one was very very successful and

(01:21:42):
I believe could have done the job, but got so
sick in trying to work on my book. Finally said
I don't want anything to do with this book.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
That's when finally I came across a woman who was
was very difficult to work with, who didn't write a book,
who used my manuscript. My manuscript was fine, it was published.

(01:22:15):
What I wrote was published, But what she did do
was get me into the publishing world and get me
a good agent who got me the publishing deal. Okay,
And so it was a lot of difficulty in making
all that happen, and and oh, I could just go

(01:22:36):
on and on about all the challenges I had to
overcome to get it done. But it finally, it finally
came out, and I think it's very very well written.
I worked with a really good editor at Penguin who
kind of didn't rewrite it, but took it and rearranged it,

(01:22:57):
and and and and changed a flow of it and
uh expanded some of it, and and and suppressed other
parts of it, and I think made the story just perfect.
And and I work together very closely, and it was
it ended up good. It's a very interesting book. A
lot of folks tell me they'll they'll read it almost straight.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
Through with us, right, And let me tell you something.
As a reader, I can tell you that's that's that's
how you know you know you're reading a good book
when it's like, oh, I'm gonna you know, I can't,
I'm not. I gotta finish reading this since three in
the morning, and you're still like, I.

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
Can't stop reading it. Yeah, And I don't. I'm not
saying that boastfully. I'm saying, I hear that. All.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
Yeah, They're like, no, man, I can't put this down
as like tomorrow, tomorrow will be like but I got I.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
I about a year or so ago, two years ago,
there was a guy who they may make a lot
of movies in Pittsburgh. And this is a famous house
and it's an old Victorian manner, beautiful place, especially if
it's a bed and breakfast. And he shows up at
my house one day and says, listen, I scouted for movies,

(01:24:07):
and you mind if I took some pictures of the
inside of the house. We might want to use it
in a movie. Sometimes I we'll cat log it and
keep it on file. I said, sure, come on in, Yeah,
take all the pictures you want. So he was there
for about an hour, took all the pictures and we talked.
He was a nice, nice guy. And as he was leaving,

(01:24:27):
just for the heck of it, I said, hey, I
never mentioned anything about the book or the house or anything.
I said, hey, I wrote a book about this house.
Let me give you a copy. He goes, you wrote
a book about it? What's it about? I said, just
take it? And he left.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
So about a year later, I get a call. I
didn't remember his name or anything. He said, Hey, remember
I'm such and such. I came to your house one
day to take pictures. I said yeah. He said, well,
you gave me a book when I left, and I
didn't pay any attention to it. And a couple of
weeks ago I found it in my office and I
just started reading the first couple of pages and I

(01:25:05):
couldn't put it down. And he said, and I finished
it here recently, and I had to call I had
to call you and tell you that this book has
changed my whole perspective on life. I didn't have any faith,
I have no religion before I read this book. And
I'll tell you what this is really kind of messed

(01:25:26):
me up.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
Doesn't over on your head, doesn't it? Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
And those are the kind those are the kind of
conversations that say, I hit the mark.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
Right, hit the mark that I was aiming for the
reason why I asked you this. There was a doctor.
His name was Earl Patterson. Okay, now, doctor Patterson. I
want to put it in Pennsylvania, no, or New Jersey.
I'm sorry. He oversaw a couple of asylums for the community, uh,

(01:25:57):
for the county or something like that. He ran like
the mental health back in the fifties, say something right
like in the early I want to say, he did
all the way into the sixties, he dese signs like
in the early seventies. He's going to put a stories
together documenting cases of possession that he ran across when

(01:26:21):
he was doing this as a psychiatrist. Even though he
was running this goes on like I want to say,
nineteen seventy nine runs. It goes through three different typists
or you know they would all get sick. Well, a
couple of them, as I guess he's dictating and they're
putting it together. One like wigged out so badly. She's

(01:26:42):
like I'm quit, I'm out of here.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Yeah, because basically what he's describing our cases, these are
real life cases that he came across in his career
while he's doing this all right, I think a couple
of them until the last one that finished got violently ill,
like they like six six like not like I'll be
next week. It's like, I'm so sick, I don't know
when I can come back. And finish this for you.

(01:27:04):
Finally he got that done. Then he goes on the
hunt the same thing for publisher. Couldn't find one. Finally
finds one in California. Can't remember what the name of
the publishing house with bottom line the books never got published.
I myself tried looking up this publishing house. Never couldn't
find it. Can't find it anywhere nowhere. Okay, same, very

(01:27:26):
It sounds a lot like what you were talking about,
like something does not want this information out there.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
Oh yeah, it was. I mean when I went through
and as I said, the first writer, who was a very,
very successful writer, had a number of books. I remember
talking to her husband on the phone. She said, he said,
she's in the hospital. We don't know what's wrong with her.
We don't know what's wrong. And she finally said, I
can't deal with this. I can't deal with it. One
of the priests from my book actually went to her house.

(01:27:55):
She lived in New Rochelle, New York, and then she
she the uh, she walked away from it. And I
don't blame her.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
And let me tell you the the What I remember
was that he mentioned because when he says when he
was trying to find a publishing house. He says, this
was the early mid seventies. You remember when all these
movies that came out, The exorses the only one, all
that crap, and they were turning him away to listen
to this, because he says, you're going to scare people

(01:28:25):
away from demonic themes. In other words, they were trying
to They wanted to scare people but attract them at
the same time. But if you're going to put a story,
what you're writing is not fiction, it's nonfiction, and you're
talking about the dangers and also what you ran across
as you did all these cases for so many years,

(01:28:47):
like in other words, we don't want that slam.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
Yeah, and that's like it sounds like the book it's
called Hostage to the Devil.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
Oh yeah, no, housae share the Devil. If you read
host this shit the Devil is like, like, I'm Martin. Yes,
that's the besides the fact that he's a very good
writer as far as descriptions go, and the content, and
you're thinking, okay, this is it's an exorousist who wrote it,
even though the exorcists in the book themselves are not

(01:29:14):
him supposedly, But yeah, when you read that, you're like, oh,
and it's and you know what, Bob, when you read
Hostage to the Devil, you realize that a lot of
these cases are very convoluted. It's not like what you
see like it's all very open and shut and you
know what it is right away and you know everything happens.

Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
Yeah, it's two hours later.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
The stories it's like no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 2 (01:29:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29:39):
So yeah. So when you said that, when you're saying, oh,
I'm having all these uphill battles coming up and that,
I was like, oh, I've heard a version of this
before and it hasn't been to be kind of in
the same vein, not exactly, but it talked about the
same subject matter where And I tried myself to look
for a copy of that book or volumes. He was

(01:30:01):
going to have ten volumes on it, that's how many
cases he had. I've never been able to locate him.
And I have searches out there. When let me tell
you something, I can usually find books wherever they are,
and I've never been able to find them. I like
I said, I even tried finding the publishing house. I said, well,
maybe I can trace it back through the publishing house.
No luck there. Like whenever that buried that thing, it

(01:30:25):
was like it's gone. So the reason why I asked
it about that, this is like, you know, like I said,
the the the the aftermath of everything that you went through.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
All right, yeah, it's not over yet too, It's not
over yet. I just want to.

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
I've had I had clients where I've said it before
in all my other shows that their their answer to
their problems when they actually and I'm not talking anything demonic,
I'm just talking to your regular old dead person had
some type of haunting. Their solution was we're moving. If

(01:31:04):
they could financially swing it, whether it's because they owned
the property or it was a rental or something. Because
a lot of times, because I used to work, I
used to be a freelance investigator for a foundation that
was here in Florida, you know, we always leave the door.
If you need help me, let us know, calls back
whatever you want. You know, we're and sometimes we would
follow up. I would say about eighty percent of the

(01:31:25):
time people's solution to this was we're moving. So that's
why I'm saying, your perspective is unique. After being there
so many years.

Speaker 2 (01:31:34):
I couldn't do that to someone else. It was my problem.
And I really believe that I was in some way
guided there and destined to deal with this issue that
would later get great publicity. And I was molded and

(01:31:55):
shaped in a way my personality to go through it,
and and and it was a mission that I had
to fulfill. And and also just the dog and this
and the determination and also the ability that I was
given to write, to be a good writer, and to

(01:32:17):
be able to write a fairly complicated story, uh in
a way that was interesting. I think I was just
put together in a in a certain way to go
through this experience and uh, and to document it, and
uh it would be the capstone of my of my life.

(01:32:40):
And uh, you know, I've I've experienced a lot of
difficulties since it. Lost the marriage lost really two marriages.
I had a son who's who died in the process.
You know, it's been been rough and uh, but nonetheless,
I think the story is still a very valid one

(01:33:02):
and it has the ability to change people and to
give them truth. And if that's the meaning of my
life and my struggles, then it was well worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:17):
Bob, have you ever considered that you being there, you
got in the way of maybe somebody else was going
to own that house, which would have amplified it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
That you know, that could have happened. I don't know.
I really believe if again, I went to great lens
in the book to explain all of this, and I
really believed that I was destined from a young child
to live in that house and to deal with.

Speaker 1 (01:33:44):
This right because you you, even as a child, you
were attracted exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
In This problem existed for decades. It affected the whole community,
affected the whole community. And I think that I was
drawn to it from the time I was a child
and would stand in front of the house as a
seven year old and stare at it, and it would
stare back at me.

Speaker 1 (01:34:06):
That's incredible that a lot of people, and the fact.

Speaker 2 (01:34:10):
That when I when I left the military and came
home and we were looking for a house, and my
mother said to me, just out of hand, oh, by
the way, your house is going on the market.

Speaker 1 (01:34:21):
She called at your house.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
Huh you called it my house? And she said it
I knew one house.

Speaker 1 (01:34:27):
She was talking right exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
Your house is going on the market next week. Isn't
that a coincidence? So I I right away thought, this
is no coincidence. This house is destined to be my house.
It's been my house all my life, and and I'm
going to get it, and I'm going to finally go
inside it and look at it. And I did, and
uh and and thus the story.

Speaker 1 (01:34:51):
Began right because from what I understand, you kind of
like thought you weren't going to get it, and you
even offered a lower price, and that they were asking,
and they took.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
It right right away, right away, and you're like, whoa.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
Yeah again, Bob, thank you so much. It has been
wonderful to speak to you. I'm going to put a
link to your to your website and the credits of
the show, because not only it's not only the book,
it's that you know, if anybody wants to stay there
and NBA.

Speaker 2 (01:35:20):
And there's a there's a website for the book to
demon of Brownsville dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
Okay, all right, but just beware And I know you said,
because I did look at your website and I know
that you put on the website for the b m B.
No no, no, no, no, don't come nor to no
ghost hunters.

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
I'll talk to people about the book. But you're not
coming with any e VP meters or.

Speaker 1 (01:35:41):
I don't blame you. I don't blame you at all.
Bob has been absolutely wonderful. And for the podcast listeners,
what would be the best website to find out you
know about your the b NB or the or the
book which told me the B and B.

Speaker 2 (01:35:56):
Is called the Brownsville Roadhouse. Okay, Brownsville Roadhouse. The book
is called The Demon of Brownsville Road and the picture
of the house is on the front cover. And then
the website is called Demono Brownsville dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:36:12):
Okay, all right, So like I said, I'll put a link.

Speaker 2 (01:36:16):
And then I have a Facebook page too, Brownsville Roadhouse.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
You do, okay? And breakfast right right right that as
far as let me ask you how many rooms does
it have? Tell me about the BMB. Now, let's get
let's let's move a little bit off to that.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
Yeah, I mean it's not a real big mansion.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
I mean I have.

Speaker 2 (01:36:37):
I have a two room suite with with two queen beds.
I have two other rooms with queen beds, and then
there's a third floor apartment that's a living room, dining room,
kitchen bedroom that I generally let out I've just started
letting it out for an extended period of time. I

(01:36:58):
have you can run it for a week or for
a month, so I have it. I have someone in
there now through October. Okay, wow, all right, and uh
it's it's a really high end place. I mean it's
a very very very nice place to stay. So it's
not it's not an Airbnb. I mean it's like a

(01:37:20):
first sure hotel and h very very nice place to
stay and and a lot of things to look at. Okay,
like a little museum, very very nice. Uh. Everyone says
how peaceful it is.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
That's great. Again, thank you so much, Bob.

Speaker 2 (01:37:40):
Okay, I enjoyed it a lot, very.

Speaker 1 (01:37:42):
Much, so I'll be I'll be bringing you back because
I got to catch up with you have more stories.
I don't want to let out everything about the book,
but it's so interesting, and I'm sure you've got a
lot of stories, maybe even stuff that you didn't write about.

Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Yeah, sure, absolutely, Okay, great, Thank care much.

Speaker 1 (01:38:00):
Okay, what do you think. By the way, there's been
a lot of god going back years, there's been story
shows besides the book. In other words, even before he
published the book, he Bob appeared in different shows and documentaries.

(01:38:25):
In other words, this is a very well known haunting,
if you want to call it that, which is let
me tell you. When you in other words, when you
look at the the shows, it's kind of like wow.

(01:38:46):
And then when you read the book, I think that's
what fills in the gaps, because of course, you know,
all these shows they gloss over, you know, they only
have x amount of time where they can fit this information.
And but it goes into the book actually goes into
a lot more detail about what transpired throughout all the
years that he was living there. From the time, like
he said that he was a kid, and he was

(01:39:09):
perpetually attracted to this house. Let's face it, most seven
year old they don't care, you know. In other words,
there's there was this attraction from him, Like I'm saying,
a seven year old kid, and you know, he's not
an architect. That's what I'm saying, is not like I
want to be an architect, and that house has a
design that just fascinates me. And that wasn't it. Whatever

(01:39:32):
there was about this house reached out to him even
as a child, which is not that's normally kids, like
I said, don't don't have any preference that way. And again,
the coincidences or whether you want to call him, synchronous
cities where he right at the appropriate time that he's

(01:39:56):
able to buy the house. You know, he has a family,
he has his married it comes up for sale. And
by the way, because I'm not going to give you
the entire book of it, it's a three hundred and
something pagebook. There's a lot, I'm not going to give
everything away. But he really thought that because this is
a large house, he really thought that it was going

(01:40:18):
to be beyond their means to purchase his houses. Like, yeah,
it's great, it's for sale, but yeah, good luck on
getting it. And it turned out, yeah, he got it.
He made an offer to the owner and the guy
said yeah, and you know, like everything else, and I
remembered one time and this is not the same thing.

(01:40:40):
It's not paranormal. But I'm saying that sometimes you know
you want to get and I'm going to use the
example of a house and you throw it out there
and you're thinking, well, what's the worst thing can happen.
I'm going to get the big fat know that I
already know is probably coming my way. Same thing, this
was many many years ago, is in the eighties, and
we were going out up there. This was the edge

(01:41:01):
of Miami. They were building a lot of brandy houses
up We were like right on top of the Everglads.
This is the middle of nowhere. What I mean nowhere
like out there there was basically we were surrounded by
agricultural fields and they had this and we were debating
did we want to go and get something new built
because we had already gone through that new where it
takes some forever six months, seven months, eight months to

(01:41:22):
deliver a house, you know, when you order it being
built versus something that was already built. So we were
going back and forth and back and forth, and right
next to the new development that the house would have
had to be built, they had a new one. But
the house was built and it was a three bedroom,
two bat cargo ruge, which is all we need is
And I remember they were asking, I can't remember something,

(01:41:50):
and we were like, hey, you know what we'll offer
this person. And I remember I spoke to the real
estate agent for the lady. It was a lady. I
don't know, if she had other people, I don't know,
And we offered her like it wasn't that much. It
was like way but under her asking price. In other words,
she it was she had she had been in that house,

(01:42:11):
I want to say a year or less or something
very small. In other words, she had her margin of
profit on this house. I'm sure, as a matter of fact,
probably when she paid her commissions on the real estate deal,
she was probably going to be in the whole. How's that?
So we offered her a lot less, not a lot,
but less than when she was asking for so much,

(01:42:31):
so that even the real estate says, I don't think
he's going to go for this. I said, well, offered
to a visional real estate agents have to real estate agents.
Calls us back. Then she goes, she'll take it, and
we're like, huh, because honestly we thought she was. We
were going to get laughed because, like I said, we
were kind of teeter retottering whether we wanted a house

(01:42:51):
built or new one. Come to find out, I asked
the real estate agent. I said, that's great, but what's
what's going on with this? Like they were all in
the house, same thing, like he does, Well, No, what
happened was I don't remember? She said a few months before,
like I said she hadn't been in that house. Somebody
had tried to break into the house, and I think

(01:43:12):
she was in the house, okay, And this scared her
so badly as somebody was trying to break into the house,
that she just wanted out of the house, out of
the house. Like in other words, this lady didn't care
if she was going to take a loss on it
and she was going to be in the hole. And
I said, well, let me think about it. And then

(01:43:33):
at that time and my husband we talked about it,
and we decaid, no, we're going to get our brand
new house, but we'll go through the pain of that.
As a matter of fact, we had to end up
renting another house for a whole year. What it ended
up being a year instead of six months, which is
what they told us. Well that the other house was
getting built, all right, And I never forgot that. My
point being this this description that Bob gives where he's

(01:43:56):
throwing this this thing out, thinking, well for gonna laugh,
me and my wife out the front door, and they
took it. And the thing is this that you're so excited.
I imagine that's just me making things up. But I
imagine that here you you're actually gonna get what you
want that maybe you don't think twice, like why is that?

(01:44:17):
You know, you're because in the book it was a
significant amount of money, the difference between what these owners
were asking and what they offered them. All right, almost
like you're thinking like exactly, like what he's that He
asked the owner what's wrong? And the owner is telling him, yeah,

(01:44:39):
we've held mass twice in the house, which by is
it unusual kind of thing? Like I you know, because
you're thinking mass like a blessing is talking. That's very typical,
you know mong Catholics. You know, you move into a
new house and you ask the parish priest or somebody
to come and do a blessing on the house. That's different.

(01:45:00):
But again, you know, you get you know, it's almost
like you know, relationship. You meet the bad boy or
the bad girl and you're so ah, and then you
overlook all the warning signs like, oh, this is not
gonna be good. Same thing. You know, you're excited you
get the property you want, and then you know you
have all these little signs along the way give you

(01:45:21):
a heads up, and you're like, I'm not gonna ignore that.
I'm gonna ignore that. No, that doesn't mean anything. Later
on you realize, oh, shoot, that's why I was being
told this this and that'll that's that comment, what that meant?
And you know what, I'm sure there's people out there
who have had similar experiences, and I'm not. I mean,

(01:45:42):
I know sometimes people buy properties that later on turn
out to be like, what a headache this is? This
has become you know, as a matter of fact. You know,
because you know in certain especially with real estate, you
know certain states, hell, you you have to disclose certain things,
whether it's for example, if it's been flooded before you know,

(01:46:05):
the real estate agent they must disclosed this that. There's
another website and I've mentioned that before goal died in
house or died in home or something like that, which
you plug an address and it will tell you if
anybody has died in the house, not like die, but
not died in the sense of like that the owner
that lived or died, but that there's been some type

(01:46:27):
of crime or some type of murder or something that
will how's this that will stigmatize a property? And I
think the reason why they do that is that you think, well,
people in that city or that county or that area
will be familiar. But what if you have a buyer
that comes in out of state. We're just out of
the area and they have no idea that this whatever

(01:46:51):
it was, played out in that house and they buy it,
and then later on they're told, yeah, you know, that's
the way they murdered five people.

Speaker 2 (01:46:58):
What.

Speaker 1 (01:47:00):
But the other end of that is, even with hauntings now,
there's certain states that require or a disclosure to be done,
you know, if a house has a reputation along those lines.
My point being that, remember, when they're doing this transaction

(01:47:22):
is before the advent of reality shows, which I'm thinking,
by the way, there's a lot of people out there,
a lot of homeowners that I think they don't even
they don't even call it a paranormal team or even
even the clergy, because they're thinking, the last thing I want,
Like I said, their solution to the problem is I'm

(01:47:44):
out of here, and the last thing I want is
for somebody. You know, I don't want anybody to think
or know that we've got stuff going on here. And
by the way, they don't care if whoever buys a house,
you deal with it. Whatever it was that we're dealing
with you deal with it. In other words, nobody has
like the you know how Bob is saying, you know,
my conscience wouldn't let me, like what would happen to

(01:48:06):
whoever follows? And especially as long the longer he was there,
the darker it got. There's a lot of people that
won't even have a paranormal investigation done on their properties
because they're like, at some point in time, they come
to this decision that they're out of there, and like
I said, they sell the house for little, very little money,

(01:48:28):
or maybe not as much as they could make. Sometimes
they don't. Sometimes they make their money, but they're like,
in other words, maybe their plans were not to move out.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:39):
You know, sometimes you find it you go into this house,
a lot of nice renovations have been done to the
house where and I'm not talking about renovations like curbo
peel like, oh we're going to flip the house. I'm
talking about renovations that people do to their house when
they're planning to stay there and all of a sudden
they're like out of there. I'm not gonna say all

(01:49:02):
the time, but a lot of times that is the
the what that you know, like a like an Harry
Potter that that shall never be named, he shall never Well,
this is the scenario that will never be named, which is,
we've got a haunting going on and we're not gonna
call no paranormal team or nobody to come in here
and do anything because we're out of here. Yeah, but

(01:49:25):
we know we paid this for the marble blah blah
and this. I don't care. We're out of here and
that's it. That's it. And if they're a real estate agent,
sometimes and like I said, it depends on the juris,
on the different states of different rules, they'll just say, no, nothing,
there's a nice house. Oh, nothing's ever happened here. I mean,

(01:49:49):
come on, that's what I had to love what he
calls up the old the priority goes, let's get together
and talk about it. I was like, of course not.
This man's never what you think. He's gonnah this close
to you. You know what he knew was there, and
he like, let you guys walk into it. Not everybody's

(01:50:11):
a bob. And by the way, I know that he
was saying about that that house was meant for him.
And think about this. When they bought that house, they
were like, ugh, a typical family for kids, like nineteen eighties,

(01:50:33):
he gets his dream house, but whatever, it's a typical
family in the sense of and then you know, time
goes by and all these things are occurring and they're
trying to deal with it. But at the end it's
a regular family and they're fighting against it, and he
asks for the help of the church or whatever. The processes.

(01:50:55):
You have to read the book, But can you imagine
if that house would have fallen into the wrong hands,
And by this I mean somebody with a dark personality
or somebody with a dark agenda, or just the It's like, Bob,
maybe your purpose, if he listens to this, must be

(01:51:17):
going to That's that it. The purpose of your attraction
to this house all along was that you were going
to be the stopgap. You were the one that was
going to prevent maybe some dark personality, whether it was
a serial killer or just somebody that's dark or bad,
or even somebody that would have been into occult, really

(01:51:39):
dark occult stuff. You were the one that your presence here,
even though it's cost him dearly, I think, was the
one that stopped that from that house falling into the
hands of somebody that was because it sounds like an

(01:52:00):
I don't know the exact but it sounds like the
family that was ever before. I don't think I never
got the impression they were just like, in other words,
if their conscience bothered them about selling the house to
somebody and not letting them out, it was like, we'll
deal with it, but it's better than staying here. But
I don't think they sound like they were bad people,
like nefarious or Satanists or nothing like that. There is

(01:52:24):
maybe who knows what was going on with them, But
can you imagine that house falling into the wrong hands?
Whoa whoa? Okay, talk about putting gasoline on a fire.
That would have amplified it vice versa, because it would
have been an exchange fueled whatever was there and whatever

(01:52:45):
whoever came to live there being fueled, dominated, possessed, whatever
you want to call it. Further, who knows by what
was there? Yeah, yes, yes, exactly, That's what I'm talking about.
Maybe his you know, he was the right person because
he's the kind of person obviously he's stuck it out.

(01:53:07):
He stuck it out. He didn't let whatever was going
on run him out, you know, And like I said, yeah,
I've read again. I'm not going to go into it
because I think the book deserves to be read. You know,
the if you look at the book, the story hows

(01:53:30):
this from the outside, you didn't think, okay, well, it's
a family that moves into a house and it turns
out that the house is haunted and it's haunted by
demon Okay, yeah, but when you read the book you
realize that it's almost like a detective mystery story again

(01:53:52):
because unlike what you see in Hollywood, where everything, you know,
the problem, everything resolves itself in a week. You know,
the family moves in there and then everything goes sideways,
and then everything happens in a week, and then the
priest comes, blesses and boops, and it's over a week later,
a two weeks. When you read the actual book, it

(01:54:13):
tells you how incrementally all these different things were happening
and how they were dealt with. And remember, most people
that are going through these experiences, your first reaction is

(01:54:34):
disbelief or oh, my imagination is running away with me,
or no, that was the wind, or no that was
you know. In other words, you write it off as whatever,
and it's only later on through things happening, the repetition
and things getting that you realize, wait a minute, but

(01:54:57):
that only takes time. Only takes time for it to
play out that way. And let me tell you something,
And the worst part is not that the house in
and of itself was haunted, because like he said, like
when he I had to laugh when he says, oh,

(01:55:19):
you know, I went to this place and they tell
me it's haunted, I was like, okay, who cares? Like
in other words, this was not a dead person, you know,
like you know, when you come to the realization that
like he was saying, that it's not it's just not
the haunted house for the old guy that lived here
and is he's still knocking around. No, no, no, no,
when you get to that point, that realization that whatever

(01:55:39):
is there is intelligent, manipulative and non human. Yeah, okay,
that right there is where you know, what is it?
What's that saying? You see the differentiate from the men
to the boys or whatever. It's like right there, right

(01:56:00):
when you realize this is not like, oh, it's a
haunted house where you know you hear like, yeah, you hear.
Don't get me wrong, I know there's a lot of
scary things attached to just a regular old haunting, But
a lot of times things of that nature are resolved
more easily and completely versus what he's describing, especially when

(01:56:23):
you realize what are the origins will cause it because
you think, Okay, how does this house, how does this
happen in a house? How does this come about? Why?
And that's what he explains in the book when he
starts doing his own investigation as to why this is

(01:56:44):
happening in that house in particular. So, yeah, it's very,
very very interesting. So I heard you get the book,
and I'm like, I said, I'm sure there's a lot
of people out there that are familiar with Bob Cranmer's
story before that. But anyway, don't forget to sign up
for my newsletter on substack. Go to Mppelaster dot com.

(01:57:06):
I have a link there. Go to Miami ghost Chronicles
dot com. I have links to everything there or stories
of the supernatural, that info. It's all. I'll just have
his different tabs. You go to Erie dot news. I
have podcasts about that and Stranger than Fiction stories. Have
articles there, just weird little articles, some older stuff. Same thing.

(01:57:31):
I was reading one of my the you know the
true crime. Like I said, this thing now with the DNA.
As a matter of fact, I was reading today. They
found this was a young guy. He was a Vietnam VET,
a very young Vietnam VET. And there was which, by
the way, I hadn't heard of this killer God Oregon
and northern California around the seventies was God almighty. It

(01:57:53):
looked like it was like every serial killer came out
of that area. And I know people go, hey, hey,
but anyway, there was a serial killer that ended up
getting called the score card killer and his prey his
preference were young men, young teenage boys or young men

(01:58:18):
in their twenties. And he was called the score card
killer because I believe they found where he had a
list and like everything, and I've mentioned that before they
found these remains. This was an Oregon I think it
was Highway five the week before they have found some
remains and same thing. They couldn't they They put out

(01:58:42):
they didn't match any missing person's report. They tried to
match him up to like, hey, does anybody know because
I don't think he would you know who this person is.
I'm not sure how soon after he was dead because
remember the sooner they find somebody after their deceased, the
better they can do. If it's a fresh person. This
sketch is very true to what they look like versus

(01:59:04):
when its skeletal remains or something. And then they have
to like kind of guess what the person looks like.
And you look at some of these sketches, especially from
the seventies, they're like, God, almighty, shoot, this doesn't look anything.
But anyway, bottom line, nobody could match up this kid
or this person. They didn't know it was a kid,
they didn't know who it was. And last week or
about a month ago, they finally threw DNA. They matched

(01:59:26):
them up to this guy who was a Vietnam bat
and the family had lost touch with him. But they
had from what I understand that lost touch with him
because he had been killed. I guess he had grown
distant from his family. And I don't know what the

(01:59:47):
particulars are about how that took place. So again, and
I mentioned another times like you know, when you're ready
that distant and when this person falls off the face
of the earth and the family's really like left, Well,
this is what happened. And he was this young guy
twenty two or twenty three and that's it. He's gone.

(02:00:08):
And now they finally identified him afterwards at forty something
years that those were his remains, and down the road
of the week before that had found that this victim
of the same guy. I believe the oh God, that
the gentleman he is a and I'm I'm being nice

(02:00:30):
when I say gentleman. I could call him something else.
But there was got Craft. That was his last name, Craft,
Randy Stephen Kraft. And he was in a marrying serial
killer and rapist known as the Scorecard Killer and the
Southern California Strangler and the freeway Killer. Wow, I didn't

(02:00:52):
know he was. And he's still alive. He was born
in nineteen forty five. And you know what's really funny.
You take a look. You take a look at his
pictures of his mugshots. Okay, and you know you know

(02:01:14):
how sometimes they say evil looks a certain way and
sometimes it doesn't. Let me said, okay, you guys can
see this here. Okay, there you go. This guy doesn't
look bad. Well, now he's old, but this is him.
You see this guy walking around and he could be

(02:01:34):
your TV repairman. He could be you know, just he's
so happy. He looks content in jail, doesn't he. All Right,
look at him, I mean, this guy, he has the
kind of face with that smile that you have a
black robe with one of those collars, and he could

(02:01:55):
pass for a priest anyway. Yeah, they're still they're still
identifying as victims, you know, And at this point, I'm
sure it doesn't really matter because he I don't think
he's getting out of prison anytime soon. And from what
they're saying that they know of, then technically he was

(02:02:17):
found for the rape, torture, murder of at least sixteen
young men, but they believe that it could be as
much as sixty. And again that's a guestimate. All right,
that's a guestimate. Get into my original point. That's that's
that's a truly evil person. Now, can you imagine a

(02:02:40):
craft type of person, man or woman moving into a place,
into a house like where Bob lived, with what was
in there, with that entity, that demon there? Can you
imagine what would have happened? And for all I know,
I mean I don't know the background this craft. I
mean I have heard of these killers, but I didn't

(02:03:01):
know that they all overlapped like the Golden Gate that basically,
it turns out what they think are different killers, it
turns out to be one. I don't know what it's
familial background is, it's family of origin and what happened
with this guy. But can you imagine somebody like that
with that personality living or somehow other acquiring occupying a house.

(02:03:27):
Oh that's a scary thought. So anyway, guys, again, don't
forget links to everything, whether it's the video version, whether
it's the podcast version of any of the shows, any
of this series, including stories of the Supernatural, You're going
to find them on the website. The only advantage to
that is that the podcast versions, if you want to

(02:03:48):
listen to them on the browser or download the MP
three files from my website, you don't have to deal
with commercial interruptions. If you go through any of the
podcasts like I'm Anywhere everywhere, I'm on Apple pod podcasts,
some on iHeartRadio, all of them. Just look for stories
of the Supernatural, nightge Diary, Aerie News, or Supernatural storytelling.

(02:04:09):
You're going to find me there. I've got a lot
of great guests, a lot of great guests coming on
new ones new you know, and I still bring back
my old guests because they still got things to talk
about until next time. Take care, and you are all wonderful.

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In the Aftermath of Evil | Interview with Bob Cranmer | Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}In the Aftermath of Evil | Interview with Bob Cranmer | Podcast