Templar Legacy | Interview with David Brody | Podcast - Stories of the Supernatural

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Marlene with Miami Ghost Chronicles and I want to welcome
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(00:20):
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(00:42):
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(01:05):
on substack just go to Mppelliser dot com for a link.
I want to thank you for being part of my audience,
and I think you are all wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
So how's everybody doing? Good? Everything is good here. We're
now heading into fall, which is good, cooler weather. It's incredible.
Who is I talking to the other day? Was saying,
wait a minute, we were we just getting into twenty
twenty five the other day, like what happened? Wait? Nine

(01:37):
months have gone by? And of course I'm sure everybody
you know, you're seeing it all over the place there
everywhere you go to shop, you see, everything is about
the fall something, either whether it's Halloween or Thanksgiving. And
I'm waiting for them to put up the Christmas decorations.
But yeah, and of course, I say, you know how
you know, all the summer stuff is on sale, all

(01:58):
the barbecue stuff is on sale. So yeah, but here
we go. You know, that's just just the way it is,
you know. And and I hear people talk about it,
and I recognize it that once upon a time, when
you're a kid, you would say a year and a
year seemed like forever, like a year? You mean that, No,
that's like an equivalent to us for a century. And

(02:18):
now it's like, wait a minute. And sometimes I even
look at a look at you know, you know how
your phone I store, saw my photographs, say end up,
And every once in a while it'll show up some
of my old photographs and I'll go wait a minute,
and then it'd be like this was a year ago.
I was like, wait a minute, that was a year
that was two years ago. Yeah, that kind of deal.
So I don't know what to tell you except that

(02:42):
it's crazy when you how can I say it? You really?
What's this? You know how they say you know when
time flies? You know, they's like it's like sometimes I
feel like, hey, even when you're having fun, like even

(03:04):
when you're not, it's like what happened? Like you know
this this just like whipped by me, Like where did
it go? Now? Let me see Hold on a minute,
let me see if I can get because I wanted
to show you guys. Ah, here we go. Let me
see if I can find this one. And this is
because I got I found this really interesting little news story. Okay,

(03:30):
because there's always weird stuff going on, thankfully, and and
like I said, I was trying really hard not to
find anything having to do with UFOs because like I said,
the last time, God every thing was like you have PHO, this,
UFO that. So this last one that I came across,
it's out of a local new station, all right, And

(03:55):
basically what it's saying is it's out of a w
PR I all right, and it's a trigg or treat.
The Conjuring House listed for auction on Halloween. And the
reason why I picked this is that everybody knows Dan Rivera,
who was touring with one of the the Raggedy Ann
doll from that was with the Warrens Museum that was

(04:21):
with the Conjuring movie was based on even though they
had to change it. They couldn't use the Raggedy Ann facade.
They had to make their own scary doll. You know.
He passed away suddenly while he was touring with the doll,
and they I believe they recently sold the actual the
Warrens Museum and they're even gonna take the doll. I
think it is to Maine. But so this keeps on going.

(04:43):
By the way, I think they're gonna come out with
a new Conjuring movie. But anyway, basically it's saying the
Rhode Island Farmhouse made famous by the supernatural blockbuster The
Conjuring has been listed for auction on none other than Halloween.
The Anti Homestead is a rural town of Burroville, has
been listed on the auctioneer website Jay Manning Auctioneers under

(05:03):
a mortgage's foreclosure auction oh Wow, which is typically a
public sale or a lender sells a property because a
borrow has defaulted under mortgage payments. This antique farmhouse that
has become famous for historical paranormal signings and activity. Blah
blah blah. The auction, which was confirmed by town officials
on Friday, scheduled on the website for October thirty first,

(05:25):
which is also Halloween. The date is fitting for the
home that's been a draw for paranormal enthusiasm from around
the world. And you know what, I take that back,
because I was thinking, you know, the owner or whether
it was that they specifically chose that date, But no,
it's fits up for auction, it says here. The auction,

(05:46):
which was confirmed by town officials on Friday's schedule. Blah
blah blah. The property, which includes eight and a half
acres of land, was last sold in twenty twenty two
to bail fire LC for one point five million, according
to land records. Okay the company's control by Jaqueline Nunez,
a self described medium who has faced a ligny of
issues in the town over the past year. I wonder

(06:08):
what those issues were. After purchasing the property, Nunyas transformed
it into a tourist attraction where people could come visit
the property, explore for spirits, and even stayed were night
for a price. But problems started bubbling up last August
when the same US agency fired her employee after she
said the spirit of the farmhouse's nineteenth century owner, John Arnold,

(06:30):
told her the manager had been stealing oh boy. The
firing spurred a legal fight over back pay and resulted
in another former workers coming forward alleging they also had
faced issues working for Nunya's. Burville officials then revoked Nunya''s
entertainment license last November, saying there were issues with the
property along with her application with the town and her

(06:51):
interactions with local police. Here we Go. Nunia's hour refused
to cancel trips to the property that had already been scheduled,
which ultimately left many visitors and alert and scrambling to
recoup funds after spending hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars to
visit the property. That's not good. She also had personal
disputes with other people from the paranormal community, including Ghost

(07:12):
Hunters TV star Jason Hawes, who ended up finding a
police report at lodging Nunia's was harassing him and his family.
I gotta look that up later on Acquiring minds want
to know. Nunya's cannot immediately reach for comment on Friday evening.
Blah blah blah. The latest development that the home is
heading for auction hour will likely come as welcome news
to comedian Matt Rife and YouTuber Elton Cassie. They're the

(07:34):
ones that bought the museum. The two friends who recently
purchased a Connecticut home of famed paranormal investigators Addie Lorrainne
Warren have been pushing to buy the Conjuring house. Blah
blah blah. Okay, so see, and that's why again, I'm
not paying you because the spirit is telling me you're stealing.

(07:58):
I'm telling I gotta look into the other thing. I'm
just you know, I'm on paranormal gossip. What can I say?
It's one of those things that happens. But anyway, let's
go ahead and get to the good part. The good
part is who is the guest today at Stories of
the Supernatural. He's been here before and his name is
David Brody. He's a twelve time Amazon number one best

(08:20):
selling fiction writer with over half a million books sold.
His children call him a rock nerd because of the
time he spent studying ancient stone structure, which he believes
evidence are evidence of exploration of America. Prior to Columbus,
he has served as a director of NIRA, which is
New England Antiquities Research Association. Has appeared as a guest
expert on documentaries airing on a History Channel, Travel Channel,

(08:43):
PBS and Discovery Channel. A graduate of Tufts University and
Georgetown Law School, he was raised in Laconia. Help me
welcome him. How are you to doing today, Dave.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
I'm doing great, Marlene. It's nice to be back with you.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yes, and it's my pleasure. So yeah, I had to
throw in that little bit of parent normal gossip.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Well that's that's you know, Rhode Island. That's that's my backyard.
I'm in Massachusetts. So you mentioned that yeah, so I'm
a market on my account, I might go down to
make a bid.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
I'm telling you, and you know what, I know that
there's been other paranormal groups that have purchased these supposedly
haunted houses and they do do that. They rented out,
like if you have a paranormal group that wants to
come and let's say the right and I know a
lot of them. But I think she got off on
the wrong foot with maybe somebody in the town.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
Well it sounds like sounds like she's a piece of work.
I mean, I know your story. So it's funny because
we're I live sort of close to Salem, New Salem, Massachusetts,
which obviously from the month before Halloween, it is incredibly
inundated with taurists because of all the you know, all
the association with with witches and stuff.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
But it's a big business.

Speaker 3 (09:56):
It's becoming you said, you said people rental places, but
I don't Salem. For the month of October. You can't
get in near Salem. It's so no crowd.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Very people don't realize Salem. But there's various properties. I mean,
I'm not even you know, there's a there's the like
the rolling Hills. And there's the other sanitarium, the one
in Kentucky, which you know those are those get a
lot of people there. But but then you have these
smaller properties or homes that like a paranormal you could

(10:25):
you know, paranormal groups will say, hey, we're paying to
stay overnight there, and basically it's to get proof of whatever.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
But yes, yeah, it's a fun it's it's a fun
business idea. And I can see where people would be
drawn to it because you know, it's a fun thing
to do for gay friends together for a night and go,
you know, go have an adventure.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
So yeah, right, and.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
And this is the thing the you know, the original
story you know of the Conjuring, the where the movie
your first movie was based on. I believe one of
the daughters, she's Andrew Parone. She's talked about her experiences
growing up there all right, when her family moved in there.
So that's what people are like, Oh my god, for
sure this place is haunted. So they're gonna you know,

(11:03):
this is not like something that happened really that long ago.

Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, like I said, I may take a drive down
the Rhode Island on Halloween and check out the auction
so and actually said, you said it was Jero Manic.
I said, I know, actually I know Jerry Manning the
auctioneers with him a little bit in real estate when
I was a real estate lawyer, so I actually know him.
I could make a call and say, you know, give
me the inside scoop on that.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
I got to hook up there. I'm telling you, well,
and this is the thing that I was surprised because
I was like, Ah, somebody whoever bought because I knew
that had sold. I said, oh, somebody's going to cash
in that. Now the another Conjuring movie's coming up, and
all these things about the Conjuring, about the paranormal investigator
that died and the doll. It's all hit the news.
So now they're putting it on the market to make

(11:47):
big bucks. And no, it went to foreclosure, so there
you go.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah, it sounds like it was a bank. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
So yeah, the but I'm telling you, I've heard a
lot of excuses not to pay your your employees. But
the uh, the spirit in the house.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Told you that.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
It's a it's a good story though.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
No, it's a great story. It's a great story. Let's
see what happens. It'll be fantastic you become the new
owner of the conjuring house.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Probably not gonna happen.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Probably not.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
I might go just to watch them. Not I'm probably
not gonna be put. I can just that would be
a fun one to explain to my wife when I
come home and guess what I did today? Hunt and
guess what I bought.

Speaker 5 (12:26):
You're never gonna if I told you. But yeah, it's
it's uh, I imagine, I've I've interviewed a couple of
times Kristen Lee.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
She owns I think she still owns it, the bel
Air House in Ohio. And let me tell you something.
It's she she has a whole backstory to it. But
it's a full time job. Let me tell you managing
one of these places, once you have a steady stream
of people coming to stay there, it's it's work.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Yes, No, I'm I'm not. I'm not surprised by that.
And I bet somebody buys this one in Rhode Island
and it makes it makes a go of it. It
sounds like, not to get too deep into that, but
it sounds like the business was going okay, just that
people were stealing and arguing with each other, and then
getting in trouble with the town. And it doesn't sound
like the underlying business wasn't working. It just sounds like

(13:20):
the personality weren't working.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, the personalities and you know that kind of what
they call paranormal drama kind of deal there we got.
So let me ask you. I know you've done a
lot of work with from the last time. I think
you've put up two other books from the last time
that we spoke, right, what was your most.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
So I've been doing two a year, so I think
I've probably done four or since we spoke last, which
I think. So my last book is something called Templar Lies,
and that that's what it gets into the whole artificial
intelligence thing, the whole basically what happens is is, you
know when we talked about the Templars, you always end

(14:01):
up talking about the lost Templar treasure?

Speaker 4 (14:03):
What is it and where is it?

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Okay? And so at some point artificial intelligence is going
to become smarter than I'll probably already there already. But
in my book A Treasure Hunter, the villain comes up
with this idea that if he can gather all the
information that's out there about the templars and their treasure
and feed it into an AI model and ask the

(14:26):
model where is the templar treasure buried? You know, could
it figure it out? And I won't give the story away,
but the idea is that if you have enough information,
and it can't just be the information that is online already,
because in that case the model probably could figure it out.
But there's a lot of information that is held privately

(14:48):
by researchers that hasn't hit the internet. And if it
hasn't hit the internet, then it can't be learned by
the AI model. So the job for this character of
my book was was to not only gather all the
information on the internet, which is easy to do, but
also gather the information from researchers who are privately exchanging
it notes and emails and lecturers. And yeah, yeah, but

(15:12):
if you can get that information and load that into
the model, now the model has all the all the data,
all the information, and presumably if the model is smart enough,
it can figure out where the treasure is.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
So that's what it kicks off the whole story.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
And but it was fun for me.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Excellent, thank you.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah, it was fun to It was actually fun because
one of the things I did was I said to
the model, Okay, you're probably familiar with the name Scott Walter.
He used to host the America on Earth TV show
on History Channel, so exactly. And Scott has a lot
about the Templars and a lot about the Templar Treasure,

(15:47):
and he's one of the leading researchers. So I said
to the model, hypothetically, where would Scott Walter say the
Templar treasure is buried? And so that was sort of
a fun thing to do, and it gave the three
leading candidates Scott would think. And then I said, well,
what would David Brody say? Thinking that the model would
not really know who I am because I'm not a
TV personality. I've written books, but you know, but the model,

(16:09):
for some reason, these models are really up to date.
It knew exactly who I was. It knew all my books,
and it gave me back maybe a three page answer
it And it was eerie because it the way it
spoke was it sounded like my voice, the same tone
and the same incantations and the same vocabulary in the
same way, and it was like talking to myself. My

(16:31):
poor wife said, oh my gosh, it's bad enough to
have one of you, now we have a second one
of you too. But this AI model basically was speaking
to me like I'm like, it was me like looking
in the mirror, and it gave the exact answer I
would have given.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
And it was sort of eerie that the that.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
The AI has come so far just in the past,
I don't know, two years it's two years ago that
we didn't even know about it now all now it's
like so advanced that it it it eerie is the word.
It's just like it freaked me out. I'm like, oh
my gosh, this is this is going so fast and
it's and it's going so quickly in a couple of years,
it's going to take everything over. But it was a

(17:10):
fun story. It was fun to to sort of in
some ways. It was like the greatest hits, every.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
Idea as to you see research of other type going
into the direction.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Yeah, yeah, because the model is able to collect incredible
amounts of data and analyze the data and it's all
it's all based on probabilities and just sort of figure
out well. Historically, when treasures are found, they are found
you know, along the coastline or they're found in historical
spot whatever it is, it's able to analyze all that
almost instantly, and it basically based on probabilities. Okay, then

(17:46):
I think the templar treasure is in Minnesota near the
kensy Dey Runestone, or at Oak Island in Nova Scotia,
or in the Catskill Mountains where where Zena Halford did
her research.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Or whatever it is Oak Island. I lost, I've lost touch.
Are they still on?

Speaker 3 (18:01):
They are still on. They have a new season. I
think it's I think it starts next week already, but
they're still on. They've got another season. At this point.
The treasure is not the treasure. The treasure is the
advertising revenue they generate from that TV show because it's
because it's History.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
Channels, it's their most popular show.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
It's been there the flops of the show for I
think a dozen years, the highest rated show, and they
they rake it in and look, I'm just like everybody else.
I don't miss an episode, partly because it's you know,
it's involved in my research. I can't really can't miss
an episode. But I don't want to miss an episode
because I feel like they're so close and you know, personally,
I don't think the treasure is still there. I think

(18:44):
there was at one point a treasure there, and it's
been retrieved and moved, but there's still evidence of the
old treasure having been there, which to me is interesting,
and that evidence might tell us what it was and
where it ended up. But I don't think we're ever
going to see a situation where they they say, you know, Eureka,
here's our here's our our chest of treasure. I don't

(19:05):
think that's gonna happen, but I think they might have
a Eureka moment where they say, you know, we've now
figured out what it was and where it ended up,
which would be fun too.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
But it is I.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Don't know how big is Oak Island is? How large
is it? How many acres oh.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
The island, the island itself is. I think let's see
it's it's divided into I think thirty odd lots. I
think they're quarter acre each, So it it's not it'sig
If it's eight acres roughly, I might have those numbers wrong,
but it's you know, it's eight ten twenty acres at
the most. It's not a huge island, but right.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
That's my point is like, wait, a minute. I mean,
how many how many places can you go with this?
You're you're on an island with finite you know, like
what happened? So yeah, no, there was a while back
before I used to watch it all the time because
it was like, you know, they would have these cliffhanger.

Speaker 4 (19:52):
Moments, you know, Oh, they're very good at that.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yes, And then it was they're very they're very good that.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
Yeah, you guys, you're gonna find any.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
They Let's see, I'm sorry, okay, it's one hundred and
forty acres. I'm wrong.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
Pretty big.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
It's it's about a mile long and a half mile wide,
so it's that's more.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
That's a little bit bigger. But still even then, Uh,
let me ask you one the other day, I said,
you know what I want to ask Dave the other
day was doing some reaches research and they were talking
about something called the Black Madonna's or the Black Madonna, And.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, I wrote about that today. I wrote about it today.
Go ahead and ask your question that I'm writing I
wrote about today.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, that the supposedly they believe that they came into
Europe with the templars, like after the Crusades, like prior
around the thirteenth century. That that's basically the ones that
brought it into Europe, specifically into France. Is that.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah, Oh that's so, that's so funny. So my wife
and I are going to the southern France in three
weeks to look at the black Madonna's one. You should
bring this up. So, yeah, one of the theories no
one can play figure out. It's funny because if you
ask the church, you know, elders, why these black madonnas
are in the church, and they say, oh, they they
used to be white. And and when we burned all

(21:14):
those candles, the smoke turned the black. Even though all
the other statues in the church are still white, Madonna's are.
So it's one of the theories is that the Madonna, the
black Madonna is is it's a it's a morphing together
of two famous women in history, Mary Magdalene, and she's

(21:36):
very very popular in southern France, the whole Jesus bloodline thing.
And one of the one of the legends is that
she left after the Crucifixion and ended up in southern
France and the Langodoc.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Like a skull and a bunch of stuff there.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
Yes, yeah, that one of her supposed that her her
grave site is so whether we're in ren Las Chateau
or the Langadoc region or Provence, southern France under the
border of Spain, a border with Spain is so that's
one possibility. And then morphing together Mary Magdalene with the
Queen of Sheba made famous when she went up to
visit King Solomon and they became lovers. And this is

(22:14):
it's unclear exactly how the Shiva thing gets involved, but
it's it's a morphing together of Mary Magdalene and the
Queen of she But I get these black madonnas this
because she obviously was black, being for Ethiopia. And it's
unclear exactly where it all comes from. And of course,
like I said, the church just sort of, you know,
whistles past the graveyard and says, oh, it's just it's

(22:35):
just candle smoke. You know, there's nothing to see here.
But monster Rot, which is a famous place in famous
monastery in near Barcelona, has a black madonna. But mostly
it's southern France, like you said. And again and as
you said, it corresponds to the time of the Templars
in the twelfth and thirteenth century, So there's something.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
Going on there.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
It may be involved, it may be related to the
to the Cathars. The Cathars were a group.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
That gnosticism and.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
The exactly exactly they lived in southern France, and they
eventually they were wiped out in really the first, the
first ever religious genocide that the Vatican sent troops down
and wiped out these fellow Christians in southern France because
they were worshiping an unorthodox version of Christianity. Their their

(23:28):
version of Christianity was was different. It was gnostic, like
you said, They apparently worked worshiping these black madonnas. They
believed strongly in the Mary Magdalen uh being the wife
of Jesus. They are the big thing that they believed in.
They believed that they did not need to have a
priest intercede for them in their conversation with God.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
Yeah that you can't.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
We can't. We can't be cutting us out of the equation.
We you know, we we need the collection plate you got,
And so they they basically went down it's called the
Alberginzian Crusade. It was the early twelve hundreds, and they
wiped out hundreds of thousands of Christians. They basically just
just murdered them because they were they were not beholden
to the Vatican, even though they were very pious and

(24:13):
they were very religious and they were, you know, good people.
They weren't doing anything wrong, just mind their own business.
But that's involved with the Black Mandonnas as well. So
a lot of the history that we would have had
involving the Black man Don's was wiped out when the
Cathars were wiped out in the thirteenth century.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Well, I was also looking at that. They were saying
that one of the theories is that the Black Madonna's also
tied into goddess worship from earlier. In other words, that
they kind of like what's the word I'm looking for,
like will substitute this, But really what we're as goddess
worship maybe going back as far as whether it's Sybil

(24:50):
or Cybell however, or you know, or even ices that
you know, that's one theory is that they just give
her that facade.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Ego way back to the time of when Abraham and Sarah,
when you know, when hold the concept of uh a
monotheistic male god first evolved with Abraham. There's a fascinating
book called The Red Tent by Anita Diamontan.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
If you've read that book years ago, but yes, I
read that.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
It's a it's a great book. And and Sarah Abraham's life.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
The women go to the Red Tent once a month
for their menstrual cycle, and they have these little goddess
figurines that they worshiped, fertility goddesses, which are very similar
to the Black Madonna. Like you said that these were
fertility goddesses.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
This is the sacred.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Feminine, and and that that the badonnas may be, as
you just said, a residual of that ancient belief in
the in the sacred feminine, in the goddess that was
stamped out by the patriarchal religions Judeo Christianity. You know,
we can't be having any we got one god yahweh,

(25:57):
he's got a beard, he's not a woman, none of
that stuff, just which is silly, but that's what's happened.
But this may be sort of a silent protest to that,
or a little bit of an echo of those ancient
female practices of worshiping the goddess, especially uh during the.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
And of course, if I remember correctly. You know, this
was a woman during her menstrual cycle, was unpure, So
that's why she was sent to the red Tent.

Speaker 4 (26:23):
Yeah, no men would go in there.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
In other words, what happened in the red tent stayed
in the red tent.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Yes, and and the and the women, I think we're
happy to go. They're like, oh, get away from the guys.
We get to let yeah, take a break for these guys.
And they weren't allowed. They weren't allowed in the in
the temple because they were considered unclean. Men were not
allowed to lay with them because it was unclean. It
was a big thing. But while they were in that
red tent, because no men would come in, they could
freely practice some of those old, those ancient pagan relicious

(26:52):
religious rituals with with the goddess figurines.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Right, And that's that they uh and they were As
a matter of fact, I was also researching that. I
believe there's because like a darker aspect also to the
Black Madonna's is that they were saying that the usually
the madonna traditionally as you know as the Virgin Mary

(27:17):
or the Mother of Christ. You see it as depicting
motherhood or tender motherhood, but that they kind of took
it over even though it's you know, a madonna of
a darker aspect, which might even include human sacrifice or
some type of sacrifice because of the ancient pre Christian
judaeo Christian belief system. Okay, you know that, uh, and

(27:42):
that at some point that uh, you know, once let's
say the uh, after Christians took over the you know,
the Vatican and everything that they had some uh tunnels,
you know, they outlawed human sacrifice. This is like you know,
when there's different religions of course, and Roma is already
going down the two that after a while they were

(28:03):
practicing this type of worship in some tunnels that were
underneath the Vatican I which believe I believe that were
rediscovered in the nineteen thirties and they found a lot
of the and from you know, different types of artifacts
down there because they had been used extensively as burial sites,
including I believe they even found what they thought was

(28:24):
remnants of Peter.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
That was I never heard the tie into the black
Mandonnas with human sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
But yeah, well, in the sense of that, basically, the
black Madonna is a stand in. How's that for an
older cult, goddess cult that did that, Yes, and that
they could be basically so maybe we didn't get burned
at the stake.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, I can, I can, I can speak to you.
Had mentioned one thing about the Templars brought the black
Madonnas to to Europe, and I can. There's an interesting.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
Backstory to that.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
And the patron of the Temporex is a guy named
Bernard de Clervau. This is in the or mid to
late eleven hundred. He's the guy who sort of wrote
their charter and he was he's late later became Saint Bernard,
but he was, like I said, was their patron, he

(29:22):
was their champion. He himself was a big proponent of
the Virgin Mary. At that time that the church was
very patriarchal. It was all about the Father, the Son,
and the Holy Spirit. There was no feminine at all.
And he started preaching about having this dream where he
was blind, and whether that was literally blind or just

(29:43):
sort of figuratively blind, He's unclear, maybe both, and that
the way he was cured in this dream was that
he drank the breast milk from the Virgin Mary and
that that cured him and and he pushed for the
veneration of Mary at a time again when the church
was very male dominant, And it was because of him
that the church turned at least a little bit to

(30:05):
marry worship, which we didn't have up until that. But
the templar, because because he was the patron of the templars,
the templars then became big venerators of the Virgin Mary.
And so whenever they were going into the battle, they
went into the battle on behalf of the Virgin Mary,
not on behalf of Jesus. And so when we start
seeing the templars come back and they start building these

(30:27):
massive Gothic cathedrals that they learned how to build when
they were in the release. Like Notre Dame, our lady,
it was they were always named after the Virgin Mary.
So the Templars were very much worshippers of the feminine
because of this whole Virgin Mary things. And that may
play into why the Black Mandonna was brought, as you suggested,

(30:48):
to Europe by the Templars. Again, the templars, even though
they were they were monks and they were fighters army,
You know that you wouldn't think of them as feminists,
because because in many ways there are any But for
whatever reason, they had this idea of of the feminine
and the importance of the feminine to a healthy society,

(31:11):
and they were rejecting the strict patriarchy of the Church
at the time, and it may have been what eventually
got them outlawed in thirteen oh seven. You know, it
may have been that the Church at some points said,
are right, enough of all this sacred feminine stuff. We've
had enough of it and the Crusaders roll, but we
don't need you guys anymore.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
But it may also be that the reason the.

Speaker 3 (31:35):
Templars had this affiliation with the goddess is because they
learned things when they were in the Middle East, when
they were in Jerusalem, when they were digging under King
Solomon's semple, they may have learned things about early Christianity
that indicated that the feminine was important at the time
of Jesus, which I think is really was happening. I
think Jesus Jude Mary Magdalen as his partner, as his consort,

(31:59):
and that as part of the old heroos gamos, the
sacred marriage between men and women that was with the
balance was needed for healthy society, and and that Jesus
preached that, And I think that was something that Templars
learned when they were in Jerusalem. They came back to
Europe with it, and the Church said, no, no, no, no,
we can't have that. We need you guys to keep

(32:19):
your mouth shut and keep your mouth shut. We'll let
you stick around, we'll let you have your land. Well,
we'll make your pay taxes.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
You can be our army.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
But then at some point it got too dangerous to
have them out there with that, that kind of knowledge
that could undermine everything the Church wanted. So the same
reason they wiped out the Cathars in the early twelve
hundreds is the reason they wiped out the Templars in
the early thirty par Didn't they.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Wipe out a lot of debt also when they twiped
out the Templars.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
That's a good point too, the one we should we
should bring this this example to our our friends in
Rhode Island. Maybe instead of having a foreclosure option, just
said take out your banker, so you don't if you
if you wipe up your banker, you wipe up your
debt too.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Going to the spiritual and the heretical and believes there
was definitely Oh you know what is it? Follow the
money kind of thing, like yeah, y' right right.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
The temples had lent a lot of money to the
King of France, Philip Labell and it was Philip LaBelle
and along with the Pope Poplo I don't know, wrong name,
different pope anyway, I forget his name. But the Pope
and Phillipp together decided to hel the tap parts and
the polpe did it for the reasons I just outlined.
The King of France said it as you just suggested,

(33:31):
because you wanted to wipe out his death right.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, that there was also a very practical how's that
reason for it? Or or you know like oh, yeah,
we're doing this to your Holy Mother Church whatever. But however,
you know, besides that, we get out from under a
mountain of debt.

Speaker 4 (33:49):
A huge amount of dead.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Do you believe that the Do you think that it's
the this story that was tied into Mary of Magdala
or Mary Magdalene also had to do with the marriage
of Vyan bloodline, et cetera. Do you think there's there's
truth to that? I do so.

Speaker 3 (34:06):
The Marrivigian bloodline rumor is that when Mary Magdalen came
to the Provence region of the coastal area of southern
France after the crucifixion, that her her she she had
Jesus' children, and those children continued the blood line and
they became I believe it was around the fifth century
or sixth century, the Merrivingian leaders Marrior meeting the same

(34:31):
having the same route as Mary, but that became the
Merrivnian leaders of France for about two hundred years, and
that it's that blood line that supposedly continued down. Yeah,
so that story seems to hold together. And again that's
related to all the many Mary Magdalen chapels in that

(34:52):
area of France, the Black Madonnas as you suggested, the
ren Las Chateau mystery. Uh, that's of all the places
in Europe, that area of southern France is where you
see the most amount of Mary Magdalene worship. And again
that's why my wife Kim and I are going to
go there in early October. We're very curious to do
some driving around and see that all for ourselves.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
As they say, France, but in particular that area of
France is the one that has the heaviest. Even though
I believe there is a black Madonna, there is an
Witten Dwarf Germany, but the majority of them are in France.
And they're very similar that the way there, their height
and the way they're posed and the child on their knee,
you know, either with a blessing or holding the ball,

(35:34):
like they're all very similar. Like everybody was on the
same page when they scolded these uh or maybe these
black madonnas uh so in. And I'm sure that there's
there's also and I don't know if you've heard about this,
there's also one that they believe now this is this
is one of those things like where does the truth lie?

(35:54):
And there is a I don't know if you've heard
of it. There's a chateau in our Dens and the
Force of our Dens and Belgium, which and which at
what time it was built, like around eighteen seventy seven,
and it was originally built for the brother of King Leopold.
They were Catholic. There was a chapel in there. Eventually

(36:16):
when they died they got resold, et cetera, et cetera.
There's a lot of dark rumors about what happens in there.
But the story is that when the house was originally built,
like I said, they built a chapel, a very nice chapel,
and that there is a black madonna there. But the
thing is this, there's only three photographs ever of the
interior taken of this chateau, which by the way, I

(36:36):
found them day back to nineteen oh five. And there's
no floor plan, and even though technically it's unoccupied, has
very heavy security on the grounds and in aside, like
nobody knows anything about this place. So nobody knows really
if there's truth to that there is a black madonna
there or other rumors that are attached to that property.

(36:57):
And I was wondering if you ever if you had
heard of that.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
No, but I want to write it down because he
comes again. It sounds like a fun of.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Our dens a R D E N N E S.
And it's in Belgium, Belgium, okay. And I was surprised
that that they were saying. And it's true. There is
no photographs of the interior and no floor plans ever
have been submitted for it or are known to exist.

(37:27):
And the three photographs are from like nineteen oh five.
That's it. Nobody knows what that goes on. It's been
it's been occupied the family that bought it around nineteen ten.
The descendants still own it. But talk about ultra secret
of that's that's more than that goes beyond it, Like
they have super strict security, high tech by the way,

(37:51):
not only the chateau but on the grounds and so forth.
But there's a lot of stuff that they say is
going on there or has been going on there. But
that's that's one of the things. So yeah, and I'm
sure I'm sure, like you said, there's probably some Black
Madonna's maybe in private collector's hands somewhere along the line.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure there's I would. I would
guess there's many of them. I would, especially because I
don't think the church necessarily wants to keep them. I
think the church is probably happy to be rid of
those things if they keep them on one of.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
These vaults, you know, underneath the Vatican or something like that.
Like we're the only ones that know what we have.
Let me ask you besides Oak Island, because I'm gonna
say Oakland, I want to say is the most well
known place that people think that the Templars took their treasure.
Is there any other place, especially in the Americas.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
So this is a fascinating, uh rumor, I guess I'll
call it. It's more than a rumor, because there's some
evidence that there's a there's a there's copies of documents.
We don't have the originals that indicate the Templars in
the late eleven hundreds made a crossing and ended up

(39:04):
in the Catskill Mountains of New York, so up the
Hudson River. And that's something called the Cremona document. If
any of your listeners are familiar with the Oak Island mystery,
there's a famous map from a woman named Xena Halpern
provided a map that she's passed away, since passed away,
but she her map has mentioned a lot on the
Oak Island Show. But she did a lot of research

(39:26):
on this Catskill Mountain mystery, which is what eventually led
her to Oak Island. So she went to Catskills and
led her to Oak Island, which actually ended up on
the show. But the rumor is that in the late
eleven hundreds, the Templars made their way across and that
when they did so, they were both bringing some of

(39:48):
their treasures across and when I say treasures, probably some
monetary treasure, but also probably documents and other things that
they may have found when they were in digging under
the temple saw. But also when they were there they
found a settlement of people who had come over from
Israel earlier, way back, even before the time of Jesus,

(40:12):
back in like the third or fourth century BC, at
a time at a time when Judaism was taking a
turn towards patriarchy, away from the goddess worship. Again, all
those back to goddess worship, because like during the time
of King Solomon, King Solomon was perfectly willing to let
people worship the Goddess. He had foreign wives, they worshiped
the goddess, he built temples for them. Goddess worship was fine.

(40:35):
So that was say nine hundred BC. By the time
they get to five hundred or four hundred BC, the
more rigid members of the Jewish community that are enough
of that, we've got one god. It's the bearded guy,
It's Zahweh. And so the theory is that some of
the more liberal members or progressive members of Jewish society left.

(40:58):
We know that to be a fact, we don't know
where they went. And according to this whole story, some
of them ended up in the Catskill Mountains of New
York and had a settlement and sort of married into
the Native American tribes. And when the Templars came across,
they somehow knew about this and they met up with them.
And one of the things that this group had, the

(41:18):
group had with them some ancient documents and ancient scrolls
and whatever. And so this whole mystery about the Templar treasure,
it's a fascinating possibility that the Catskill Mountains it was
a repository for these ancient documents and ancient artifacts that

(41:39):
the Templars were bringing back and forth. In this idea,
it was like eleven sixty nine or eleven seventy, And interestingly,
those dates match up really nicely with some of the
artifacts that were found on Oak Island, for example, the
coconut fibers that were used for the Weeah, the box

(42:00):
strains for the booby trap flood tunnels on oakbound For
people don't know the reason, no one's ever gotten the treasures.
Every time people dig down there's a booby trap where
the flood waters come in from the ocean and wipe
out the hole and wipe out anybody in it. But
the box strains that are used to bring the water

(42:21):
in from the ocean into the into the underground floodunnels
are have coconut fiber to filter out to make sure
they don't get they'll get plugged up. Basically those coconut fibers.
Obviously there's no coconuts in Nova Scotia that's not native,
so the coconut had to come from someplace. But the
cocona dating on three different occasions from Woodshole Ocean. The

(42:42):
Graphic Society of the carbon dating of these coconut fibers
comes out at like eleven seventy the exact date of
these This journey supposedly by the Templar. So one of
the possibilities the Templars brought the coconut with them either
for food sources because they had the coconut fiber for
packing other goods, and they use that to build the

(43:02):
flood tunnel. So that's one of the interesting tie ins
between the Templars and Oak Island. But it also ties
in nicely with the Oak with the Catskill Mountain mystery,
which is dated around the same time, I believe Scott
Walter has a book it's going to be coming out
uh soon. Uh. He's been vetting this, this mystery. And

(43:23):
again one of the problems is we don't have original documents.
We only have copies. And when you only have copies,
you can't carbon data, and you can't in test the
ink you know it's all you know, and and and honestly,
some of the people involved in this have a bit
of a sketchy history, but the you know they are,
you can't you can't just you can't just sort of

(43:44):
throw it away because you're concerned that maybe some of
these people are not one hundred percent reliable if if
you need to, you need to dig down and determine
it's the history valid or not. Exact might be, it
might be yeah, and it's too important to not And
so I've been involved. This is maybe twelve thirteen years ago.

(44:05):
A group went up to Castle Mountains and we had
some maps that were part of this whole thing, and
we dug and we found artifacts. And those artifacts still
exist today and they are incredibly interesting and fascinating and intriguing.
I just don't know if they're authentic or not. I
don't know if they were.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Relanted that people have lost their lives on Oak Island
looking for this treasure.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
Oh many, Yeah, Yeah, there's been along.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
The years that, for lack of a better word, I'm
going to use the word, you know, they become obsessed
with finding it, and sometimes things have happened there that
that's why they believe that that's the name of the show,
the Curse of.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
Oak Island, Right, I think I think nine I think
nine people have died, Eleven people have died, and you know,
I think eleven people have died, and famous people have
been looking. People like the actor John Wayne was up there.
The President Franklin Roosevelt was part of a team a
huge number of Freemasons. One of the reasons why, you know,
the Freemasons are are supposedly descended from the Night's templar,

(45:02):
and if it's a templar treasure, then the mass might
know where it is. And every time there's a group
that goes up there, it seems like it's still of Freemasons.
Like the Freemasons are even more obsessed with that Lok
Island than the general population, And so that adds a
layer of intrigue to the mystery as well.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
I mean, ask them when the you know, the everybody
knows that, what was it the thirteenth Friday the thirteenth
when the Templars get rounded up right? And I always
ask myself because you always think of them as being
like they're they've got spies, for lack of a better word,

(45:39):
they've got the intel. How did they sneak up on
these guys?

Speaker 4 (45:43):
Yeah, they didn't.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
So here's what happened. So on Friday the thirteenth of
October thirteen oh seven, which is where the famous Friday
the thirteenth comes from, the philip level, the French King,
with cooperation from the Pope, his troops stormed the of
the Templar treasury in Paris and what they found was
basically nothing. The Templars did have knowledge of this, Like

(46:08):
you said, they had spies. They had taken all of
their treasure out of Paris. It looks like it went
to a coastal town on the east coast. I was sorry,
the west coast of France called La Rochelle. And from
Lar Rochelle the treasure went someplace. And one of the
good possibilities is because it's on the west coast, of

(46:29):
France as opposed to the northern coast of France. If
you were going to bring your treasures to Scotland, which
is one of the possibilities you would then lead, you
would depart to Scotland from northern France. You wouldn't depart
from western France. But if you're going across west, across
the Atlantic Ocean, then the LaRochelle location makes a lot

(46:51):
more sense. One of the reasons supposed that the Templars
were in the Catsca Mountains in the eleven eighties is
they saw the writing on the wall. They saw what
was starting to happen to the Cathars in France. They
saw that that might be their fate later on, and
they knew they needed a safe haven to bring their treasures,

(47:11):
to bring their secrets, and to bring themselves if eventually
the Vatican turned on them. And so when the Vatican
did turn on them one hundred and thirty years later,
they had a place already set up. They had a
safe haven, They had built relationships with the Native Americans,
with the built with the settlement already in the Catskills,
and so when it came time when they got worried

(47:36):
that the Philip le Bell was going to make a
move on them. They sent their treasures to La Rochelle,
and from La Rochelle across the ocean to America, probably
to the Catskills. They did know, and that's one of
the possibilities as to what treasure ended up on Oak
Island or eventually the Catskills.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Do you think there's a possibility, and I know that
some people say that that wasn't possible till later on.
Do you think that they could have sailed, let's safe,
from Marseille or the Marseille, let's say, out into the Orient,
out into Asia.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
I've never heard that because if if, if they were
leaving from Marseilles, they would have to have come out
around the Straits of Gibraltar. There was no Shoust Canal.
Then obviously they would have had to have either either
cross overland across Egypt, Saudi Arabia, whatever to get to
the you know, to the Indian Ocean somehow, or they

(48:32):
would have to come all the way circumnavigated the tip
of Africa, which would they they could have done. I'm
not saying they couldn't have done that, but that seems
like an awfully long way to go when you could
just cross the Atlantic, not not slants is a short crossing,
but it's probably one fifth or one eighth of the
length of the journey to come all the way around

(48:53):
Africa to get to Asia. I've never heard the teplars
in Asia theory.

Speaker 4 (48:58):
Is that something you've heard.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Before on occasion? You know that, not that that wouldn't
be the only place. It's like, let's let's let's hedge
our bets and let's go off in different directions. And
as a matter of fact, I was going to ask you,
do you think at any point, if we look at
let's say that they did come to America, do you
think at some point they would have come back with
whatever they took with them to Europe.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
I'm not sure I understand the question.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Let's say they they're fleeing, they've taken whatever where there was, documents, money, relics, whatever,
they flee they come to America, all right, whether it's
Oak Island or the Catskills are somewhere, right, A few
hundred years go by, two three hundred years, and I'm
sure by now you know that they would have brought

(49:47):
all that they took with them and taken it back
to Europe or do you think that they just hit
it away here, let's say in America.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Well, that's interesting.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
So so we know that they were out allowed in
thirteen oh seven. So and obviously even though they were outlawed,
you know, you can outlaw the mafia doesn't mean they
go away, as mean as they go underground. And in
the Templar's case, they reconstituted themselves as different organizations. The
Knights of Christ in Portugal, the Teutonic Knights in Germany,
the Freemasons probably in Scotland. And so now it's these

(50:20):
successful organizations. Would they have come back and retrieved their
things or would they have left them in America? That's
an interesting question. One of the theories I've heard is
that the treasure that was at Oak Island was left there,
and then in the seventeen seventies a group of Freemasons

(50:42):
from Philadelphia went up to Oak Island and retrieved the
treasure and brought it back and liquidated it and used
it to fund the American Revolution.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Oh wow, I had never heard that.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Yeah, that's one of that, And that's actually in those
documents I mentioned that talk about the Catskill Catskills Journey, the.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
Logs.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
The travel logs go all the way up through the
eighteen hundreds, and in some of those travelogs it talks
very specifically about certain members of a certain family going
up and doing this and meeting with the Freemasons up
in Nova Scotia. And we've actually cross checked the names
of the against the log books of a Masonic lodge

(51:26):
and Nova Scotia for the seventeen hundreds, and the names
actually match up. They match up and everything. So it's crazy.
But that's one of the stories is that this family,
that it's the Weems family, I believe related to the
Sinklair family, that they went up there and did this
and retrieved the treasure and brought it back. And it's
again I can't I can't swear to the authenticity of it,

(51:47):
but it's a fabulous story because it's just sort of
Your reaction was a great one, Marlon, and you were like,
wows cool. It's a cool story because it just sort
of ties everything together. If we believe that the Freemasons
were huge part of forming our government and the founding fathers,
and if that's true, which we which we think it is,
then it makes sense that they would retrieve the Templar

(52:09):
treasure and use it to build this new Jerusalem.

Speaker 4 (52:13):
This this, this this country.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
You don't realize is that you know, pre pre you know,
the actual revolution being declared or when they knew where
it was going. Uh, you know, even though even the
landowners of the people there the colony, the colony, some
of them, Yeah, they didn't want to live under the
yoke of England, but they weren't willing to give money
over like, hey, you need to feed your armies, you
need to clothe your armies, and they weren't they Yeah,

(52:38):
that's great, but they weren't giving money.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
Well, they didn't want to pay tax to England. They
don't want to pay tax to the Continental Congress either,
Like they didn't want to pay taxes period, right, I mean,
no one.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Want to pay Yeah, that's great that you know, we're
gonna not be under the thumb of the of England.
But oh, you need money for the what the soldiers?
Oh no, no, wait a minute. Yeah, so yeah, people
don't realize that there was a need. You have to
take care of an army, I mean somehow or other.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:08):
So that's so that's a that's a fun possibility. Is
that is that the treasures, at least the monetary treasures
were where you were liquidated in the seventeen seventies to
fund the American Revolution, and it just it's just one
of the stories that make you, oh, yeah, that makes sense.
But I don't know how, you know, I can't I
can't swear to it. But that's one of the possibilities.

(53:29):
The other possibility I've heard is that the treasures were
brought to Oak Island and or the Catskills, and then
as settlement occurred and more and more of the East
Coast became populated and settled, that that that that the
treasures will move further west, eventually ending up in Montana

(53:49):
with with some of the Native American tribes out there.
And so that's also one of the possibilities I've heard
is that there's caves out in Montana that the treasure
was placed in, and again have.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
They hasn't been retrieved.

Speaker 3 (54:05):
There are there are stories of a group during the
Civil War led by a prominent freemason named Albert Pike.
I don't know if you know that name. Okay, it
was Albert Pike with it it was his statue that
was torn down during the Black Lives Matter rallies a

(54:27):
number of years ago, and I think it's been I
think it's gonna put back up again. But he was
a Confederate general but also the leading Freemason. He wrote
something called Morals and Dogma. He also was an attorney
who had very close relations with some of the Western tribes.
But because he was ahead of Freemasonry and also very
very knowledgeable about all things Masonic and all things Templar,

(54:49):
there's a possibility that he knew that the treasure. If
anybody knew where the treasure was at that time, it
would have been him, let's put it that way. If
that's the case, and he did have very close relations
with the the Western tribes, one of the possibilities is
that he retrieved that treasure from Montana, say because of
his friendship with the tribes as a lawyer who represented

(55:11):
the tribes in many cases against the federal government, and
that he took the treasure and liquidated and used it
to fund the Confederacy during the Civil War. So that's
another possibility just what happened to the treasure.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Because people don't realize those caves up in Montana, Wyoming,
they're very cool and dry, so you put things in there.
They keep very well because of the low temperature and
they're very dry, so maybe they yeah, don't also for
that reason, who knows.

Speaker 3 (55:40):
Yeah, And don't forget those those those tribes are very
powerful of this. So the Blackfoot tribe as an example,
you know, if if the Blackfoot wanted to hide something,
they could hide something there weren't there weren't that many
settlers out there, and the Blackfoot were very powerful, and
and uh, war take hands.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
You're going to go out there, right, You're you're you're.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Not getting You're not getting that without an army, you're
not getting that treasure. And even with an army you
might not.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
But again, but.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Pike had good relations with them. As possible that they
were keeping it for the Templars, and if Pike could
convinced them that he was the successor to the Templars,
they might have given it up. So that's another that's
one of the other rumors I've heard about the Templar treasure.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Originally, I think from Charleston.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
He was, you know, he was from so so I'm
in I'm I live in Newburyport, Massachusetts right now. He's
from New Report he's from new report about about it.
And so the book that you asked me why my
last book was something called Templarives. The one before that
is something called the Essex huinta Essex County, which is
where I live and where Pike lived. And the book
basically is about It's about Albert Pike. It's fascinating connection

(56:48):
between freemasonry and the things we just talked about, the
Templar Treasures, and uh, Albert Pike seems like every conspiracy
theory you can imagine, whether it's Skull and Bone Society
at Yale University, the Knights of the Golden Circle.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
From the Civil War.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
He was a part of that. Obviously, he's a part
of Freemaker with me. Albert Pike seems like every single
conspiracy road leads back to Albert Pike. Yeah, Morrelton Dog
went from Freeman Strict And so I had a lot
of fun again not knowing that this guy grew up
in the town I live in, literally a mile from
where I'm sitting right now. And so that was another

(57:30):
fascinating story about how these powerful shipping families in colonial America,
especially in the New England New England shipping towns like
Salem and Marblehead and Ipswich and newb report they were
trying to get the New England States to secede from
the Union. This is around the time of the War

(57:51):
of eighteen twelve. Much as later on, the Southern states
did seceed, but the Northern states wanted to succeed. Some
people in the Norden States wanted to seceed around the
time of eighteen twelve, and then late I think later,
I think these northern powerful shipping families, I think they
were working with the Southern families to push the South

(58:11):
to secede because they wanted to fracture the Union. And
it never came out. It's a part of history that
we don't know about. But that's what my book looked into,
and it's a fascinating possibility. And that Pike from the
North moved to the South, like you said, Charleston, South Carolina,
and he was working with his old allies up here
in the North, and together they were working to agitate
for a civil war. It wasn't just the South. They

(58:34):
had allies in the North and the shipping families, and
it was Pike working with his old cohorts from Newburyport right,
and together they were, you know, and so that's yeah,
that book is some of my some of my most
in my most fascinating research. It's again it's called the
Essex Hunt a j U n t A uh. It's

(58:54):
that's an actual organization. If you look at weed Wikipedia,
it's right there. But it's basically it's out Or Pike
working from the South with his old cohorts in the North,
trying to splinter the unions.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
I think, especially since we were talking here about the
American Revolution and of course you know a lot of
founding fathers that were Masons, et cetera. You know, what
do you think what happened?

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Has this?

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Where did the French Revolution go wrong? Besides the gay
latine thing, but you know, where do you think that
it just you know, one thing, the United States, we
they established, they had the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution,
et cetera, et cetera. And then the next thing, you know,
you know, the French Revolution, they you know, killed a

(59:42):
bunch of you know, the aristocrats, some of the leaders
of that movement ended up getting there, had cut off
to end up Napoleon. And then you know, and I
always wondered, were the Masons or anything having to go
on in France like that. Have you come across any
research having to.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Do with that. Yeah, so the Masons were a big
part of that, no doubt about the whole French Revolution thing.
I think the problem was, as I understand it, and
I'm not an expert in this, so this this takes
this with a grand salt. It looked to me like
the Masons are trying to play both sides against the middle.
And on the one hand, they were, they were they were,
they were part of the agitation trying to get rid

(01:00:20):
of the monarchy. But then when things went too far,
they were also part, you know, they were part of
the ruling elite.

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
They didn't want to go.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
Too far with all this stuff, so they sort of
got caught in the careful what you wish for, you know,
And I think in the end it just it's once
you went lesha mob, it's hard to control it. And
I think they learned that lesson. So yeah, that's that's
sort of my short answer. And I kicked much deeper
on it because I don't know a ton of the

(01:00:47):
French Revolution industry, but I did read about that recently
because of the because of the Masonic involvement with it,
but it was basically one of those things where they
were trying to play both sides against the middle well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:56):
As a matter of fact, one of the you know,
they had the different leaders. You know, everybody thinks, you know,
there were there were several people in the French Revolution
that came from aristocratic families, which is kind of like
what And I believe one of them, I can't remember.
He was a He could tell this guy was like
on the psychopathic side. One of the places he went
to a desecrate was where they had the tomb of

(01:01:18):
Mary of Magdala and they hit her body, they hit
her remains so that he wouldn't find them and desecrate them.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
I to understand, And yeah, I didn't. I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
I know that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Later on, you know, when Napoleon eventually took power in
the eighteen o three eighteen oh four and he marched
to eventually took over Italy and controlled the Vatican. He
took the entire Vatican library and he and he shipped
it back to Paris, and then he sent copies of

(01:01:56):
everything back to the Vatican, but obviously not everything made
it back. But really yeah, so so One of the things,
one of the books I keep waiting to write and
I haven't done yet, is what happened to all those
documents that went from the vaticcu You know, he didn't
make it. I'm sorry, he kept copies and sent the
originals back or something I forget, but like, obviously not

(01:02:16):
everything went back. But there's rumor is that there's a
bunch of original Vatican documents going way back in time
that are still some place in Paris, because when Napoleon
took it all back, and I forget if he gave
back copies to gave back originals. I forget what he did.
But I know at one point he took everything to Paris.
And you know, everyone's always like, we got to get

(01:02:37):
into the Vatican archives to see what's going on. It
may be that the answer is in Paris, but I
haven't gotten any I haven't gotten any deeper than that.
So if you hear anything, if you're anything, let me know, Marlena,
if you let me know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Please think what makes you think, you know, you always
think of the Vatican holding real tight to all their
documentation and what God knows what they have. You know
that people don't even know min exist as far antiquities
or writings or whatever. But I did not know that
that Napoleon had done that. It's like, yeah, let me,
knowledge is power.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Let me tell you that it's well he I think he.
I think he just wanted it because of his ego.
He wanted to Yeah, he just wanted all the documents.
But yeah, but you're right, power too, no doubt about power.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Yeah, back, yeah, especially you know if you're thinking, they
how's this not maybe not power so much as what
we traditionally think of power, but spiritual power because you
have the knowledge of maybe esoteric things, you know, who knows.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
But so yeah, so yeah, that's a that's an interesting
segue to another quick thing that Hitler, you probably know,
during the war was obsessed with trying to find the
Holy Grail and the called the Arma Christie, the the
the the what's the thorns on Jesus has had what

(01:04:03):
are those things called the right?

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
I know, I know what you're talking about, Yes, the.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
Head piece of thorns and the and the lands that
that that the spirit, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
But Hilo was obsessed and he sent teams out. He
sent teams to Roslyn Chapel in Scotland, he sent teams
uh to uh as matter of fact, to to southern
France looking for the stuff, went to monks Segor, one
of the hilltop refuges refuge of of the Catharists during
the albertiniz And crusade.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
But Hitler was obsessed.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
He he believed that these things had magical powers and
he believed it could it could a he could weaponize
them and win the war and be he could become immortal.
So he was obsessed with even before the war and
during the war, of finding all of these religious artifacts
that he thought he could use to gain power.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Sure, and you know, everybody says, okay, you know he
had all these sign into just working on all these
scientific endeavors, right, But.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
There was definitely the Crown of Thorns.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Believe very much so, and like you said, the esoteric
metaphysical aspects, like they really believed that. It wasn't for
the sake of I'm going to have this item for
museum because I wanted in a museum. It was because
they actually thought that they had power. The difference, I
guess they really truly believed and they they they like
you said, they went to a lot of places on

(01:05:29):
a hunch, you know, like like the same thing, like
when was the last time we knew about this that
this existed? Where was it at? So yeah, that's why
I'm saying that sometimes the power is not necessarily power
as in tangible power like power over you. It's spiritual
or you know, if they've perceived it that way. How's that?

Speaker 4 (01:05:52):
What do you?

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
And I know that the Templars, like you said, they
kind of evolved and do they still exist by a different.

Speaker 4 (01:06:02):
Name, right, So those two things.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
So there are groups today that claim to be the
modern day successors of the Templars. They're based in France
and they have branches around. There's like two or three
different groups that way, one of which in particular is
very much religious and sense loyal to the church. Others,

(01:06:27):
like the original Templars were. Other groups are more just
sort of esoteric, looking to continue the Templar belief in
world peace and in the study of esoteric matters. And
then also within Freemasonry. There's two things going on there.

(01:06:48):
One is that some people believe that when the Templars
are outlawed, they reconstituted themselves as the Freemasons, which is
I haven to believe that Secondly, even if they did not,
there are groups within Freemason me that call themselves the
Knights Templar, where you can within Freemasonry, there are different
paths you can take. In One of the pasts is

(01:07:09):
you become a Knight templar and you can study the
Knights templars and rituals, and you get to dress up
as a templar and carry a sword and and and
that's based on the templars obviously.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
So there's lots of different.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
Manifestations in modern days of templar like or templar inspired organizations,
all of which claim some connection to the historical templars.
There's also a possibility that a group called the rosicrutionis
that that when when the when the templars are out loud,
they reconstitute themselves as the Rosicutions. And the Rosicutions are

(01:07:44):
sort of famous for studying looking for the sort of
the elixir of life, the fountain of youth. That's one
of the things that they're famous for, or on the
scientific side of things. So there are lots of different
offshoots groups that in the late eighteen hundreds there were
a huge number of these different groups that sprung up
all claiming to have their roots back in the Night's Templar.

(01:08:05):
There was a famous guy named Alistair Crowley who was
considered the most evil man on Earth, and he had
an organization based on sex magic and that tied back
to the Templars and the Templar ritual and stuff. So
there's been so many different groups that have sprung up
out of the Templars, but there's three or four today
that call themselves Knights Templar, and most of them you

(01:08:28):
could you could, you know, some take women. You could join,
Marlene if you wanted. I could join if I wanted to.
You don't have to be even if you're not a Christian.
Some of them will take. Some require you have to
be Christians, some require have to be male, but not
all of them, so you could.

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
I have a friend of mine who I used to
work with, and her dad was a Rosicrucian and she
told me that she was like fifteen years old. They
would have the ceremonies that they brought her in with
some other girls because they were all virgins to play
something that part of Columba. There was some type of ceremony.
There was nothing pervert permitted or anything okay having to
do with that, and her and some other girls that

(01:09:05):
daughters of some of the members that were brought in
because we're doing some ceremony representative of COLUMBU. She told
me this a while back, and I remember she even
told me that one time her dad, because you know,
the rosicrusions are very big into timing. The timing on
things is really important. And her dad had to go
in for some type of surgery and he made the

(01:09:27):
doctor Doe perform the surgery at like five minutes after
this time. He says, I'm not going to have the
surgery until you started like at five after whatever, seven
o'clock whatever, like he was like it was like like
he was full blown. Yes, rosicusions for them, timing is
very very important, especially like something let's say as important

(01:09:50):
like a surgery or some undertaking or things. I don't
know what he was basing the timing on, per se,
but I remember her telling me she no my dad
when he needed that surgery. He was like, well, he
was very obstinate about with the doctor and everything.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
That I've never heard that about it, maybe like biro
rhythms or something even you know, but I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
If Honestly, I don't know if we're talking here astrologically,
I don't know. I don't know what he was looking
at as far as the timing, like why at that
time versus ten minutes before? Yeah, so I know that
the resecrutions that they have their own thing going on

(01:10:33):
as far as the esoteric belief systems and yeah. And
then the reason why I asked you is like sometimes
you know, you hear like these groups evolved, and like
you said, there's that they call themselves the Templar because
especially because so they're well known, but then the true
real Templars are underground, like nobody knows that the real

(01:10:54):
original Knights Templar are, Like only the members know who
the members are. How's that that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:01):
Would make it?

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
So?

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
So again we go back to thirteen or seven. We
know that they were quote unquote outlawed, but we also
know they didn't disappear because you just can't, you know,
you just can't wave your magic wand and these and.

Speaker 4 (01:11:11):
So they were they were.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
These were powerful people, and they had a lot of wealth,
and they had secrets, right, and they had passion and
you have to assume that that that passed down generation
after generation and manifested itself in some other successful organization.
But like you said, there's also a possibility that we
know of six or seven of them, and none of
them are the real successors. That the real successors are

(01:11:36):
are underground and nobody knows about them because they're a
secret society. And because they're a secret society, they're.

Speaker 2 (01:11:42):
Secret, right exactly so much so that and you know,
you always think, okay, let's say obviously, before that, you know,
they could recruit openly or whatever their litmus test was
to join. But once I went underground, how did they
recruit new knights to join the order knowing you know,

(01:12:03):
this is the kind of person that we need, and
more importantly, this person will keep their mouth shut. I
think that's very interesting because the other day I was thinking,
I was talking about this that you know, sometimes you know,
there's such a thing as oral tradition, or even if
something's written, sometimes the person that knows about it or

(01:12:24):
supposed to pass a secret on dies unexpectedly. And as
a matter of fact, this came around about about three
years four years ago in Spain, they were doing a
dig for you know, they have very old Roman villas
that they sometimes find in Spain when the Romans were
in there in Hispania what they call it Spania, Yepuri
and Pansa. So they come across and they're doing this

(01:12:46):
big dig on a villa, and under a porticle of
what they think would have been like the barn, they
find like sixteen ampules full of gold coins, all minted.
You know, back then, what they would do is they
would stay the whoever the emperor was the emperor on
the coin. There was coins there from four emperors. And

(01:13:09):
they were explaining, you know how they found uh they
were they had never been found. And I was thinking,
you know what, somebody put this money away and I
don't think they forgot about it. I think they died.
That people sometimes that haven't just die, you know, something
falls on their head, they have an aneurysm or pestilence
or something, and then nobody knows that, hey, there's sixteen

(01:13:33):
feels of money under the lintel of the barn on
the ground.

Speaker 3 (01:13:38):
So one of one of the conversations I have often
is people say to me, because one of my big
theories is the templars were in America before combus. Okay,
that's right, we just talked about the Oak Island and
the catskills that came over in the eleven eighties and
then thirteen whatever, so all all these groups, and I
feel very strongly about that. And people say, well, how
come we don't know about it? And I said, well,
first of all, it's a secret society. They kept their secrets.

(01:13:59):
They don't have anything writing as they say, what about
the Native Americans? And I said, well, the Native Americans
actually have an oral tradition. And I've talked to Native
American tribal chiefs and they say, yeah, our oral tradition
is that the templars we're here, and blah blah blah.
They confirm it. But only a couple of different tribes
have said that to me, not every tribe. And so
people say, what about the other tribes? And this goes

(01:14:20):
back to your point, Marley, that the Native Americans were
basically wiped out. So if they had an oral tradition,
which they did, and it did not get passed down,
it didn't get passed down because ninety percent of the
population was wiped out, you just you lose You lose
knowledge when you lose ninety percent of your people. If

(01:14:40):
there's a pestilence or or or genocide. Those secrets just
get lost, and so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
We don't know, okay, you know what the ones that
really know about it are maybe like the three or
four five, the chief and maybe the son. You know,
people are important right where it's at. And then something
happens like it's another word, it's not well known, and
of course it didn't have writing, so I imagine from
the templar point of view, is like, great, these people

(01:15:07):
can't write this down and leave behind So and then
the three four or five people in the tribe, like
you said, all of a sudden something happens. They get
wiped out, and there goes that is a real secret
for real, like not anybody knows about it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
And then like Y said, it's like going, yeah, yeah,
all right, so when we covered it, that's that's that's
in a nutshell right there.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Yeah. So I think that, you know, you always wonder
like where how's this? I look at this, especially when
I'm looking at this program, you know, Okay, I'm thinking, God,
they're so precautious. They took so much effort to just
you know, hide it or disguise it or whatever. I
think myself, God, that's one of the things that you hear,

(01:15:51):
like do you leave something that important, whatever the the
thing is or things, would you leave it there or
would you move it? That's always been my think is
to me, and that's just the way my mind thinks.
After a while, I would move it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
Uh. You know, well, again that's part of the theories
that they eventually moved west to eventually want Tana because
as population began to grow, like you said, it was
more and more of a chance of it being discovered.
On the other hand, Oak Island itself was never really
that popular a place like there wasn't much going on
there for a long long time. It was not you know,

(01:16:28):
there's no reason for people to live there because I
lived on the mainland and so it wasn't a bad
hiding place. So it and it was you know, things
were buried and it's it wasn't a terrible place. It
wasn't like you're you know, it wasn't like downtown Boston
or something, you know, it was it was it was
a secluded place even during colonial times. But maybe so yeah, well,
hopefully we'll get some answers this year on on Oak Island.

(01:16:51):
Hopefully Scott Walter's book is going to come out talking
more about the catskill stuff, which I'm fascinated by. You know,
hopefully we can get an on that, and then next
time we talk, we'll have we'll have what we want,
have to wonder. We can talk about things and solid
and know and look at this treasure we found it. Yeah,

(01:17:12):
we could, we could talk about we could pat each
other on the back into how right we were.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
I was like, oh, no, they didn't find anything else.
Let me ask working on a book right now, because
you're telling me you're putting out two per year.

Speaker 4 (01:17:22):
Yes, so I am.

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
I think when we started talking about the Black Man Donna,
that's one of the things I'm going to research now.
But the book, this book in particular focuses is going
to focus again on a lot of the things we
talked about tonight. This idea that Mary Madalen was very
important to the Jesus, to the religion that Jesus was
trying to create, and it didn't end up happening that way,

(01:17:46):
but the idea of the sacred feminine. The more I
researched the templars, the more I research the early years
of of Christianity, the more I see that the sacred
Feminine was supposed to be an important part of it,
and I think the Mary Magdalen's key to that. And
I think that the history of southern France and what

(01:18:09):
happened to the Cathars, one of the reasons why the
Cathars has wiped out were wiped out was because the
Church wanted to suppress that knowledge. And it's hard to
suppress knowledge. It bubbles back up again, which is what
I think we're seeing right now.

Speaker 4 (01:18:21):
So I'm writing about that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
But again it ties in always ties it back to
the Templars, and in this particular case, the focus is
on Mary Magdalen, right, And I believe that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
It was, like you said, sometimes they think that there's
an amalgamation. I think Mary of Egypt was another one
that they threw into the thing. As far as who
was actually ended up in France. And also from what
I understand, this version of that Mary Magdalene was a
prostitute was never was not the original story on her.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
Yeah, that was, and even the Church has disavowed that
and said that we were wrong to say that, even
the Church.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
But that went on for hundreds of years where yeah
she was.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
Yeah, people still people still people said I was I
was with a buddy mine other day who was an
observing Catholic and I say, hey, it was Mary Maxwell Prostets.
He says yeah. I'm like, ah, even today people still
believe that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:13):
Yeah, and then there wasn't that's not the her original story.
So when do you when do you not have any
idea when you're going to be coming out with that
book or is that's still up in the air.

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
That should be November.

Speaker 3 (01:19:23):
So so the name of the name of my series
is called the Templars in America Series, and there's twenty
twenty books in that now. The first book is something
called Cabal of the Westford Knight. There's this great legend
in western Massachusetts of this carving of a night of
medieval night the Templars carved on the rock Ledgend and
they came over here in thirteen ninety eight. Yeah, we

(01:19:45):
talked about the last time I was on so that
that was. That's sort of an overview all this, this
the New Court Tower and all all the artifacts that
indicate that the Templars were in America before Columbus, And
that's sort of an overview book. And then the next
nineteen go off into a little into some of those tangents,
a lot of what you talked about today, you know,
the Oak Island tangents, the Catskill Mountain tangents, the Hitler

(01:20:10):
obsession with the Holy Grail tangent. A different different books,
all but all again related generally speaking to the Templars
and their treasure. And so this one, which is gonna
be the twenty first book in the series, it should
be out in November. Like I said, I'm going to
France in October. I'm almost done writing it now. I
do need to go there and just get some good pictures,

(01:20:30):
get some a little more research done. But I'm supposed
to be all button thising down. And my wife, who
reads these as I go along, said to me to
the day, this one is the best one. She's reading
a lot of time. So I'm like, all right, well,
I'm hopeful that's good.

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
To come good.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
So of course she has to say that, you, I mean,
she lives with me, But what's she gonna say? But
but but she she seems to hear about it, So
I was I was pretty I was pretty excited about that,
because she's she's gonna be a tough critic, but she
thinks it's a it's some some fun research and some
really lot of research.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
So let me. I've heard it the other way, but.

Speaker 2 (01:21:07):
I'm just I'm just saying it works both ways.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
All right, I'm sure it does so.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
For you, my podcast listeners. Dave, what is your website?

Speaker 3 (01:21:17):
It's David Brodiebooks dot com b R O d Y
David brodybooks dot com and again the name of the
series of the Templars in America series. It's sort of fictional.
I call it faction, fact based fiction, similar in genre
to the Da Vinci Code or the National Treasure. Modern
day stuff, but triggered by all this really fun history

(01:21:39):
we talked about tonight.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Thank you so much. David has been absolutely wonderful to
speak to you again.

Speaker 4 (01:21:44):
Always a pleasure. Thanks for having me, Take care, good night.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
Bye bye, great so much. You know what, there's history
that there's history, let's face it, you know, yeah, there's
the history there. Everybody gets in the you know, the
how's this, the the vanilla, well not the vanilla, but yeah,
the the history that everybody knows about. And then there's history,

(01:22:15):
the history of stuff like this that when you hear
it you're like, really, you're kidding. I didn't know that,
And yeah, I think that's very which, by the way,
which is now you know, it's being recognized that you
know that the Americas were being visited way before Christopher Columbus,

(01:22:36):
you know that kind of deal, and we talked about it.
I think the last time that day was with me.
Were they thought that even BC, the Phoenicians were here
mining for ten and for copper and everything, and people
don't realize that. Yes, of course when Columbus came, you know,
what he was in search of, of course was the Orient,

(01:22:59):
to to go to the Orient and find because there
was a route between Europe and the Orient, which was
the Spice the Spice Road, and I believe the Ottoman
had power over it and they were charging a hefty fea.
So the impetus was, We're going to find a way

(01:23:20):
to get to the Orient by boat and the Ottoman
we don't have to pay them to go and get
the spices, which was money. As a matter of fact,
when the stories of Marco Polo were, you know, his
his adventures in the Orient were on a trip with
his I think it was father and his uncle and
a merchant will be gone two and three years on

(01:23:42):
that trip between coming back and forth overland. And of
course the idea with that exploration was to find another route,
and they ran into the Americas. But anyway, but how's this,
but they when they discovered and they came back and
they did everything. I think that the for example of
the Phoenicians, which there's a theory that they came to

(01:24:03):
the Americas and they were even negotiating with the natives
who in that area to mind for them and then
they would buy it from them. See, they wanted to
keep that source of secret, so there was no desire
to come and colonize or do anything. All they wanted
to do was we'll show up once a year, probably
when it was spring or you know, summer, pick up

(01:24:26):
our order of tin copper, whatever it is that they
got being mined for them, and then go back. All right,
but the route, you kept it a secret, so there
was no effort beyond that trip to come back and
set up shop. They stayed where they were at. I believe.
I think the Phoenicians are I think are modern what

(01:24:47):
it's modern day Lebanon today, I believe. So I'm not
sure of course that changed by the time Christopher Columbus,
uh you know, came over and you know everything else
that followed from the different countries, because that's that's another thing,
you know, the competition by all these different European countries
was to hold land and power because they had been

(01:25:07):
on and off, you know, one minute they were allies
and then another minute they were at war. So and
there you go with that. So yeah, it's very interesting
though what goes on behind the scenes, like he's talking
about here. You know, did they transport Albert Pike, which
has a kind of a reputation as being a tied

(01:25:28):
to uh Luciferianism, And all that you know was did
they move it? Did they move that treasure or whatever
it was, you know, what might be a treasure to them,
We don't know what it was. Relics, manuscripts, gold, jewelry.
Did they move it? I I that's the way I think,
I see I see it. If we stashed something and

(01:25:48):
you want to keep something a secret, and you're thinking
eventually over time somebody might say something or figure it
out or something, the idea would be to eventually move it,
move it to a new place, and then maybe the
same thing eventually that one place where it's at, then
you got to move it from there, you know, whether
you want to say every fifty years, every twenty years,
every hundred years, or something. That that's how you basically

(01:26:10):
kept whatever it is you were hiding secret. That he
talked about that they took that and they used it
to fund the Revolutionary War. I never heard that, but
that's fascinating and that makes a lot of sense to me.
Was what people don't realize is that when they were

(01:26:32):
going back and forth with Britain about taxation and all that,
you know, yes, of course there were they were, but
they considered themselves. Everybody considered themselves British subjects. They didn't
want to break with Britain. But then there were others
that did, because especially if you were a landowner, you
had something and hey, I don't want to get taxed anymore.

(01:26:53):
Oh but you need money. Yeah, we have to feed
the soldiers and clothe them and buy armaments and bullets.
They didn't want to cough up the money. They were like,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's overthrow the the British hold
over us. But I need you need what? So they
had a hard time so that that idea of them
getting funding themselves from that source not far fetched at all. So,

(01:27:19):
I mean there's so many I guess short of at
this point, some discovery of some manuscripts, some letter, somebody
writing a diary. You know, we picked up the you know,
the treasure and we moved it to wherever. It's very
interesting that for all the history that's written, how much

(01:27:41):
of it the actual history is remains unwritten or like
he was saying, only the people that were involved at
that time knew about it, and they weren't interested in
having it known as far as history, in other words,
my legacy. If if then you were the kind of
person that was intered in the legacy, you never want
any of You didn't want your kids to know about it.

(01:28:02):
You never wanted the future. You don't want no history
to tie you to something that was done for whatever
the greater good, or you're even your own personal gain.
Bottom line that sometimes history unfolds, and let's face it,
nobody is ever going to know about it again unless

(01:28:23):
somebody buys a desk here, I'm just making things up.
By the desk finds a secret drawer, finds a stash
of manuscripts that are proven to be accurate, where this
one person either is the participant that actually did it
or there's somebody close by. There's a there's a book,

(01:28:44):
and I thought this was a really neat book. There
there's a there's an author. He was real big, like
in the nineteen forties, nineteen fifties, I want to say,
and I believe his last name was was this Chastagne
god Martine? Anyway, he wrote a lot of adventure books

(01:29:11):
or adventure novels around that time period, right, Thomas Costaine.
There we go. I was giving him a new name,
Thomas Costaine, all right. As a matter of fact, yes,
he first published it in nineteen fifty seven. When you
read the book, it's like kind of like a little
bit of time travel kind of, but it takes it

(01:29:31):
takes you back to the thirteenth century. The plot of it,
and basically it follows the was it time travel or
reincarnation one of the two I can't remember. And basically
it's the night and he has I can't remember if
it was his squire or another night, but it was

(01:29:52):
like a servant that follow him and they have all
these adventures and you know there this is Remember this
is around the time of like the Potagenets, eleanor of Aquitaine.
You know all that. You know, twelve and thirteenth century,
the England, blah blah blah, the Magna Carta, all that. Anyway,
the title refers to that when you seated people at

(01:30:17):
these long tables that you see in these movies where
the salt was placed, if you would below the saltmans
that you were like a servant or lesser in the
pecking order, and the people that were nobles or had
some title and some type of importance, they were above
the salt bottom line. At the end, you're thinking when

(01:30:39):
he comes back, like I said, I can't remember if
it was a reincarnation or time travel thing. You're thinking
that the one that's seeing all of this is the
main protagonist the night turns out that the one who
saw everything and said the story was the guy that
followed him around. I want to say it was like
his servant. I can't remember if he was a junior
knight or just a squire. And that's why the title

(01:31:00):
is below the salt. Everybody thinks that because I believe
it was the senators having a regression. So all this
time during the book you're thinking he is the main
night and it turns out no, he was the guy
that was below the salt. My point being that sometimes
history or the truth of history is sometimes a witness

(01:31:21):
by the unknown person, and you're thinking, okay, some of
these events short of somebody like a below the salt
person writing, which by the way, depends where it is.
Not many people were literate talking about what they've seen
or what they heard. Now, remember in a time period
where servants, especially if you were somebody with some type

(01:31:44):
of a title or station in life, you got used
to having servants come in and out all right, and
you'd be surprised with some of these people overheard or
saw because they kind of forgot that these people were
there and had a pair of years. You know, a
lot of them wouldn't say anything, especially they want to
keep their job or you know, I'm not going to

(01:32:04):
get in trouble over this. But they witnessed and saw
a lot of things that that you think, I wonder
if any of them ever you know, the the real
what happened, the real, the skinny on that event that
maybe history portrays it totally different. Can you imagine that
would be great as far as the true history. Remember,

(01:32:30):
like I said, especially back when we're talking here medieval
times or anything, we're you know, the history is composed
of these major figures that every the Duke of this
and you know, or people in the church, people that
had recognizable names, but that history was experienced by the
multitudes of unknowns, all right, that we might never know
their names. So again it's like, what is it that

(01:32:55):
would be an interesting thing that if we anything like
that was ever we ever came across some type of manuscript,
And then I guess I'm a proponent of putting the
recognized history on its head. You know, something that throws
like when he's talking about this gentleman, he's gonna put
out the book about the uh, these artifacts that supposedly

(01:33:20):
have to do with them, with the mace the mason
listened to me, with the templars that are the catskills,
I've never heard of that. I've never heard of that.
So it's gonna be very interesting. Again, I hope you
like this interview with David Brody. I'm gonna have a
link to his website on the credits to the show,
and by all means check it out. Please don't forget
to subscribe to my substack newsletter, go to Mppellister dot com.

(01:33:43):
You can also go to Miami Chronicles dot com. You
can there's links again for not only the newsletter, but
links to all the articles I write, also the video
version and the podcast version of any of the episodes
that I have, regardless of not only Stories of the Supernatural,

(01:34:04):
but Supernatural storytime, night, sche diary, eerie news, you name it.
That's going to be the place you're going to find
it all at. And I'm already working on next year,
the next season, season nineteen, Season nineteen the Stories of
the Supernatural, which usually covers the time period from January

(01:34:26):
to June of twenty twenty six. I've already got guests
coming in for that, so please come back, but thank
you for being here today, and I'll be seeing you soon.
Till next time, take care,

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Templar Legacy | Interview with David Brody | Podcast

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Templar Legacy | Interview with David Brody | Podcast