Podcast Economy 2024 | Censorship Coming to Podcast Platforms? | Panel (Ep39) - StreamLeader Report with Ross Brand

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right. Is it a goodor a bad economy for podcasters? I
guess it depends where you sit inthe pecking order and whether you are one
of the top people, whether youare have a show that's growing well.
It all depends. There's a lotto talk about. We're going to get
into everything to do with the podcasteconomy for twenty twenty four and other issues

(00:24):
as well. We're going to doit next on the stream Leader Report Live
Panel, which we do every Thursdayat one thirty pm Eastern. Let's do
a show. It's the stream LeaderReport Live Panel. Creators talking to creators,
craw real and unscripted, and sometimesthey say the quiet part out loud.

(00:45):
Here're your hosts, Claudia Santiago,Rebecca Gunter, Rob Greenley, and
Ross Brand. All Right, hey, gang, ross Brand here for the
stream Leader Report. Joining me asalways Rob Greenley, Hall of Fame podcaster,
Rebecca Gunter, host of Business inthe Raw. I should probably turn
on our display names. There yougo. There's everybody, all right,

(01:11):
and Claudia won't be with us today, but she'll be back next week hopefully.
As we roll on talking about everythingto do with podcasting today, we'll
also get into a story about AppleMusic in Europe and some finds they had
to face up to, and iftime allows, also Twitches doing a redesign,

(01:34):
we can talk about that as well. But there were some numbers on
the good side. Let's start withthose that caught my attention, and this
probably lays it out as clearly aspossible. Jason Kelsey, future Hall of
Fame NFL player, made eighty onemillion dollars during his career in the NFL,

(01:57):
and reportedly he will make more moneyas a podcaster than he did as
a pro football player. Now that'snot something I thought I was going to
see when I started doing podcasts.I know he's got a popular one with
his brother, and his brother obviouslyis more popular than ever, not only

(02:21):
because he's winning Super Bowls, buthe also happens to be dating perhaps one
of the most famous people in theworld, and Taylor Swift, so that
that increases the attention on them intheir podcast as well. But Rob,
does this sound realistic? Does thissound like something that it could actually be

(02:42):
happening, that he's facing a biggerwindfall from from podcasting than the eighty one
million dollars he made in football.Yeah, I think it is. I
think a terrific example of the samething is what Joe Rogan signed for here
recently, which is even out abit more than this. So I think
it is an indication of the popularget more popular, and the popular can

(03:09):
tap into opportunities for monetization, especiallyif they're at that level of brand and
fame and awareness. I think itdefinitely is a is a propellant and if
they particularly portray themselves in a waythat is attractive to advertisers, you know,

(03:32):
do they trust is content to allthose kinds of things. And that
kind of leads into our upcoming topictoo, of the changes that are happening
in the podcasting space around moderation content, all those kinds of things that we've
seen really kind of blossom and growand become a significant influence in the YouTube

(03:53):
ecosystem. Well, the article fromMarca dot com says that quotes an industry
person saying that it wouldn't be surprisedif they signed for one hundred million Kelsey
and his brother. I just rememberyou know, broadcasting being like a nice

(04:14):
way an ex player could could makesome mi extra money, you know,
stay involved in the game, youknow, maybe they make six seven figures.
Maybe if they're at the top ofthe heap. But the money now
that X players and top broadcasters aregetting paid either as podcasters or as game

(04:39):
analysts, personalities and such, it'sjust it's off the charts that that that.
I guess it started got my attentionfirst when Tony Romo retired rather than
continued playing football, because he couldsign a multi year big deal as a
broadcaster versus coming back and playing ayear of professional football, even at a

(05:03):
pretty good salary. It's a littlebit probably a safer profession than playing NFL
football. It sure is. Ihave a question when we say that they're
earning more money, how is thatmoney actually being earned? As in,

(05:24):
is this advertising dollars directly to liketheir media company, does somebody else else
own the platform and then they getpaid as personalities? Is it a sponsorship?
Like how are they like actually pocketingthe revenue from this effort? Question?
Mark, Yeah, that's a complicatedquestion that can come with lots of

(05:49):
lots of ways of actually doing that. It depends on the relationship and the
deal with whoever they're working with,you know, like Joe Rogan is a
good example. Of I think ashift from him being given money because of
an exclusive relationship with Spotify to puthis content, which is more of a
kind of a licensing deal to Ibelieve this new package that he's under is

(06:13):
more of an advertising and sponsorship ourrelationship directly to him and like whatever his
umbrella media company is or through.Yeah. Yeah, it depends on how
he has it structured and who he'sspecifically working with on the distribution side,
but it's chances are it's probably arev share type of our relationship with him

(06:36):
and whoever he did the deal with, which I'm not exactly sure what the
entity was that did the deal withhim. It usually comes with some representation
into the market and obtaining opportunities.It could be a talent agent that could
be really behind this deal. We'reworking with a variety of possible sponsors and

(07:00):
advertisers and endorsers, and he couldbe going to be getting into like a
paid community type of opportunity as well. So there's lots of layers. It
just means like a private, paidaccess kind of community around this show to
him specifically, like he's answering qand as and jumping in the comments.

(07:23):
Yeah, I mean, it couldbe all those things. It could be
bonus content, it could be exclusivecontent. Just to that ecosystem. You
know, it's been going on fora long time in like Patreon and Apple's
been offering kind of like a paidsolution. X is doing kind of a
premium program. So if you startholding up the same really in a lot
of ways, it's the same kindof hybrid model that even Tucker Carlson is

(07:44):
using right now where he's he's puttingout some free content. It's called the
premium models, or really what it'sbeen around for a really long time.
What Tucker's doing is he's he's createda premium subscription model off his website that
enables him to capture direct relationships withhis audience, and they pay him for
access to extended content or bonus contentor things that he's not putting publicly out

(08:07):
there. But this could be justa straight advertising rev deal that whoever did
he did the deal with is willingto guarantee him a certain amount of revenue
on this. Now, granted,these type of deals are becoming rarer and
rarer. If it is a guaranteetype of a deal, or it could

(08:28):
be just an opportunity that they seefor him as a dollar amount. I
think it's a little bit it's alittle bit clickbaity to put out a payout
number like this. It's almost like, you know, that's the purposes to
generate spends interest. Ye, right, And it may not be entirely truthful

(08:50):
around what the actual revenue is becauseI mean, if I was in his
position, I wouldn't necessarily want theworld to know how much money I was
making. If you look at thedeal that that Joe Rogan did initially with
Spotify, everybody just speculated. Really, it wasn't an official announcement by anybody
that Joe signed a one hundred milliondollar deal, and I heard people talking

(09:11):
about, well it was a twohundred million dollar deal or one hundred and
fifty million. I mean, everybodywas kind of speculating. Yeah. Again,
this news comes off of a quotefrom an industry person gave her the
money watch, and so I don'tknow how much background there is behind it.
Let's say quick hello to Roberto Blakejoining us, a dream Yard creator,

(09:33):
and of course big time YouTuber GlennHebert. We know Glenn the Geek
from the Horse Radio Network, oneof the all time great podcasters with Boy,
he's got a library of content thatvery few people I think could match,
if any. Yeah, he dida deal with a magazine. Yeah.

(09:54):
And Chris Stone from Cast Ahead.Chris says, these podcast money headlines
make a a lot of people thinkthey can start a podcast and be instant
millionaires too. For most, it'sa long game and that requires commitment.
That's exactly right. And in thecase of whether it's the Kelsey's becoming famous

(10:15):
through football first and then also buildingup a podcast to get to this point
of a following, or Joe Rogandoing his podcast for years before the big
signing, and others. Pat McAfeeex football punter. Punters don't make a
ton of money, but he builtup his own thing between YouTube and the

(10:37):
podcast, and then he got ahuge payday from ESPN because they needed some
presence in the digital world. Yeah, these are the exceptions. The other
thing Robi I wanted to ask youabout is I'm also seeing production companies and
businesses that had podcasts div visions layingoff a lot of staff and people.

(11:03):
So it seems like while there's moneygoing to the top performers, there's also
some contraction going on in the industry. Yeah, it's been happening, even
in the public radio side. Ithink we just saw the announcement of Colorado
Public Radio basically letting go of fifteenemployees that a basically shutting down their podcast

(11:26):
division. I think it's really asign of kind of like a reshuffling of
the deck and people are people kindof had a certain amount of overexuberance in
the investment side of podcasting over thelast three to four years, and now
they're realizing that if there's any kindof a downturn or any kind of a
pullback, especially on the radio side, it's a tough balance for them because

(11:52):
they had they have to continue toinvest in the radio broadcasting side and then
invest additionally in the podcasting side,because they've treated it as two separate things
for them, which is which isprobably the smart thing to do, but
it also adds to the costs.And if you see a downturn and advertiser
support, which is usually it seemslike it's happening increasingly with podcasts are linked

(12:16):
up with the radio these days,that you're seeing kind of a of a
decline on that side, And Ihave to wonder if we look to the
future, what the viability of localradio is going to be as we and
this may be a sign of othertrends that are moving against other kind of
media companies that are catering to whatI would specifically say as audiences that are

(12:41):
kind of dying off literally and figurativelybased on their their demographics of their listeners.
I'd say public radio is under areally significant threat right now because they're
broadcast side, which is what's reallybeen funding them for many years. For
all the efforts, even on thepodcasting side, has been falling off in

(13:05):
their their revenue opportunities. So we'reseeing this shift over to digital. And
if the media company doesn't have theresources to keep investing into the digital side,
then there they have to cut somewhere. And what's going to be the
quickest way to maintain your your revenue. It's it's to cut back on extraneous
investment versus you know, your coreof what you know the most and what

(13:30):
you feel more comfortable with. Andthat's for oftentimes it's the radio side.
Yeah, that's it, says speakingto my radio friends and syndication, they
are slow this year. Add salesdown across the board. Okay, that
was the sounds bananas because like thisAmerican Life almost set the gold standard for

(13:52):
like American consumption of podcasts. Andto think that public radio is just condensing
like that when they it almost feelslike invented the genre. Well yeah,
hard to rob your head around.Yeah. And then this week there was
an announcement that Cereal was going tocome back with their season four ten years

(14:15):
later. I mean, if youthink about the Serial podcast, which actually
really put storytelling podcasts on the mapback back in twenty fourteen is when that
came out. That was the lasttime that they had a season three.
So you know that's the subject ofseason four, isn't it. I think

(14:35):
it was Guantanamo, is the That'sexactly right, which is I don't quite
understand entirely because that's really been offthe radar for most most media companies and
most people out there. I thinkthey assumed that Obama shut Guantanamo down,
but I guess I guess it hasn't. So yeah. Interesting. So here's

(14:58):
an another figure that puts positive spinback on podcasting. Kind of goes along
with what Rob says about radio,in this case national or international radio and
that's this this piece of news frompod News in which it says how much

(15:20):
does BBC pay for a fourteen minutepodcast? More than six thousand dollars per
episode. According to Bill Rogers,a radio feature would give you less than
nine hundred dollars, So a fourteenminute podcast pays more than six times what

(15:41):
doing a radio a feature for theirradio for BBC Radio would pay. That's
that says something about where the audienceis, I mean, and also the
long term potential for listens and monetizationand advertising versus radio here today gone a

(16:03):
second after it airs, or itgoes to podcast afterwards. And I guess
if you really produce a great feature, maybe it becomes both. I don't
know. But it also speaks tothe probably over investment in the production of
podcasts too. There's this concept that'sbeen around the public media space that you

(16:27):
have to have, you know,six to ten people on one project or
one podcast and paying for all that'sexpensive, right, Podcasting didn't start with
big teams like that. Now.Granted, big shows out there even you
know, a great example that Iuse is the Mark Marin podcast. Just

(16:48):
had Mark and his producer and that'sthat's all. That it had, and
I believe Joe Rogan just has acouple of guys too, so it's not
really necessary. I don't think tohave six or eight people working on one
podcast in having your cost per episodebe astronomical on that, and I do

(17:10):
know that there were people that werehired at these big media big kind of
especially public radio companies, but thisalso applies to Serious Exam and Paramount and
other kind of media companies that havebeen doing this too, where they will
pay a producer to come in andjust produce one episode for them, and

(17:30):
or a couple of co producers tocome in to just work on one episode,
and then that co producer will gooff and work on a different podcast,
So they're basically shuffling staff amongst thesepodcasts versus the more traditional model was
kind of like have a host andhave a producer and crank that puppy out,

(17:52):
you know, have the host dosome work on that side on being
in charge of the content, andhave the producer or help the production,
but not do all the work.So I think we've seen this move towards
more traditional media production where a showconcept is created and then you basically staff
it with talent, and you staffit with producers, and you staff it

(18:14):
with executive producers, and also havemore like how television has been produced,
but what that does that afternoon evenlike you say, your morning or afternoon
drive radio show in a top twentymarket maybe New York or Chicago, La
San Francisco might be a little bitdifferent, but in general, you're talking

(18:36):
about a host if they don't runtheir own board, then a board operator,
technical director if you want to befancy with it, and then maybe
one producer who screens calls and booksguests and things like that. So you're
talking even for big markets, you'retalking very small teams that work on live

(19:00):
video shows. So it's interesting thatsome somewhere along the line, big podcasts
have thought, boy, we needthese huge, these huge teams. Now,
the radio station does have a promotionsteam that put together you know,
highlights and you know, so there'sa yeah, but I mean the basics,
like if I was doing a weekendshow at a big station or something,

(19:23):
I would pretty much come in andwould be me and the board op.
Right, I'd be like, oh, you're gonna do these are the
three guests? Can you call thisperson at this time, this person at
this time, and this person atthis time. How many breaks do we
need to take and let's do it, you know, let's do a show
exactly exactly. So there is somedegree to which I think people made this

(19:45):
more complicated than it needs to.Yeah, and I think this has been
a tension in the medium for along time. I've always felt for many
years that that's the difference between podcastingand mainstream media is is what your production
costs are. And that's where wewere going to be shifting to, right.
And so we saw this over exuberancehappen over the last three or four

(20:07):
years, and these big media companiesstarted to embrace their more traditional media creation
models and how they were creating it, not realizing that this medium had to
be treated differently, had to betreated with smaller teams, more nimble productions,
and that was the path forward.And that's the precedent that podcasting set

(20:29):
was more independent creators, more kindof smaller teams. And we're seeing this
also happened with AI technology. AndI mean not to change the subject too
much here, but AI technology isenabling smaller teams to do more too.
So that's also part of the trendline here as well is that these media
companies have been running against the grainfor all these years and not realizing the

(20:55):
potential situation they were setting themselves upinto, and that was for an economic
downturn that was going to hit themreally hard. Yeah, Chris, let
me bring in Chris Barrows here sayshe was recently in a job where the
simple fact that he was editing thepodcast saved them more than twenty five thousand
dollars a year. That was thedifference between having two persons work on the

(21:18):
podcast versus one plus paying someone elseto edit the other. Thing. That
does make this a little different,And I did compare it to radio,
but some of these podcasts, infact, many of them have a video
component as well, and in factmaybe monetizing as much or more through YouTube

(21:40):
and video which does it requires somebodyif you're gonna live switch a four hour
instead of go back and cut itup afterwards. You know, there's only
so it takes. Video takes moretime. It does take more of a
team than audio own. I don'tknow if that's where, although there's a

(22:02):
lot that small teams can do videowise today as well from studios, but
that's that's kind of where we're at. I think I think they tried to
recreate somewhat the TV model, perhapsin filling out all these positions without necessarily

(22:23):
having TV money or a need forit. Yeah, no, I agree.
I think it's just taking this oldermodel and applying it to a new
medium that didn't need that that model. But you know, it's it.
It probably needed to happen it probably. I think we needed to go through
that phase where the media companies learnedwhat works and what doesn't work, what

(22:48):
is sustainable and what isn't sustainable.I guess they had to find out the
hard way. But it's unfortunate thatit's caused lots of people in the industry
to lose their careers and their jobs. But I also look at it from
the perspective that those those folks thatlost those jobs in those careers maybe need
to break out and start embracing themodel of podcasting the way it was intended

(23:10):
and start creating content themselves. I'mcurious when we're on this topic of podcasts,
what each of you feel and folksin the comments, is the best
podcast ever made? Like what's thegoat, what's the what's your favorite?
Wow? Yeah, that's a tough, tough question. There's lots of different

(23:32):
genres and podcasting and yeah, lotsYou know, if you were stranded on
a desert island and it could onlylisten to one podcast for the rest of
your life, what would it be? The stream Leader Report? Every You
stole my line? All right,yeah, I'm not sure. Actually,
let's let's talk about Apple. Let'stalk about what's going on with Apple.

(23:56):
Rebecca, Okay, let's do that. Ross not so much. Did I
jump off the hot seat quickly enoughthat put it in the comments? I
want to hear folks favorite. What'syour favorite? What's the best one you've
ever heard? My favorite is Heavyweight? I just think that is a beautiful
storytelling podcast. How they're making money, I don't know. And we're and

(24:18):
it's their last season anyway, soI guess not. Okay. So Apple
was recently fine two million dollars bythe European Union because, shocker of all
shockers, it's abusing it's dominance toharm music streamers. So essentially, the
decision found that Apple was quite covertin giving their their their like app users

(24:47):
equal access to music and platforms inwithout without the added extra Apple fee,
so you couldn't directly subscribe through likethe Apple Music app in order. I'm
not making any sense. Let's justsay there's a big on top of through

(25:11):
the Apple Music app itself, andconsumers weren't able to access cheaper options or
that information was more covertly hidden inthe fine fine, fine, fine fine
print, and therefore was found tobe kind of bullies in the playground or

(25:32):
a little bit greedy here by notallowing their consumers to go find some cheaper
options. So this is a nicearticle by Forbes, but essentially their their
behavior was deemed illegal under EU antitrustrules. And tell you about my older

(25:53):
iPhone that the music the Apple Musicapp, which I never used, but
it would just start playing. Itwas loaded with some YouTube album U two
album, and it just would startplaying. And if it wouldn't infuriate me,
because it would do it like inthe middle of the phone calls,
it would take over my audio orlike online calls, you know, like

(26:17):
zooms and stuff. It would juststart playing and I couldn't figure out a
way. There's no way to deleteit off your phone. Wasn't that you
two album? Like preloaded on abunch of like, you're not the only
I've heard this before where you couldnot remove it. Yeah, and I
mean it wasn't very good, Idon't think, but you know that's not

(26:38):
really the point of it. Well, didn't do you two any favors.
In fact, it was kind ofa brand breaker. Femme. They've taken
a lot of heat or ribbing forit. I guess. Yeah. They
thought they were getting, Hey,we're going to get our music, you
know, fed to everybody. Butyou know, nobody likes even their favorite
music fed to them while they're inthe middle of a phone, or not

(27:02):
to have any options, which isI think what this is all about is
that if there were options out therewhere they didn't have to pay premium pricing.
But Apple canfately left an information unavailableor the access access closed. I
remember getting new headphones. I remembertrying everything to see how I could stop

(27:25):
this thing from turning up? Andwhat and what did you eventually do?
You had to replace the device.I got a new phone, Yeah,
but what did you replace it with? Another iPhone? Of course? Yeah,
yep, you got me be live. I'm walked into the system.
Where am I going to go thevelvet coffin exactly, and always go to
Android. But then your devices don'tplay nice together. That's the thing,

(27:51):
right, Like the app companies playwell together. Try to send a calendar
invite to someone on on Microsoft's Outlookplatform from Google or you know, they
don't don't work together. So yeah, it's like just assume that everybody has

(28:12):
Gmail. Well, that doesn't workwith everybody either, right, right,
problem, right. So here's anotherinteresting story I wanted to mention from Inside
Radio, says audios trust scores jumpin new survey. Radio is tops and

(28:33):
podcasting has biggest gains in an erawhere survey is about consumer trust and media
have delivered a steady drum beat ofdour headlines. This is good news for
audio and in fact, for allmedia. The US media's credibility is no
longer in free fall, says thedecision intelligence company Morning Console. It has

(28:55):
released new research showing that audio isespecially well positioned for trust as a news
source. Not only is radio themost trusted media, but podcast had the
biggest increase in trust during the pastfour years. Yeah, exactly, we
said what we said. Yes,Well, I think it's very complicated.

(29:21):
It's Uh, it's easy to justlook at that information and take a certain
conclusion from it. But I wouldsay, given the kind of partisan world
that we live in right now,trust is very much a very subjective thing.
Now. Unfortunately, I'm saying,like fifty percent of the people in
the US trust one audio source,in fifty trust a different audio yeah,

(29:45):
exactly, so, which is stillprobably more trust than some elements of the
media we're getting at any time,more deserves or deserves exactly. It's just
so complicated. It based on interest. And you know, it continues to
say radio tops the trust paradigm,but you know, who who is listening

(30:11):
to radio is the is the question? If you look at I think I
saw that. I think it wasthe same study that actually showed that if
you look at gen Z and thisis a good example of what I'm saying,
doesn't even know who CNN, MSNBCare, hasn't even heard of them?
People who are listening to radio,no, no, just in this

(30:34):
research, Okay, that particular generation, they don't even I mean a large
percent of them don't even aren't evenfamiliar with who MSNBC is or CNN or
CBS News or any of these becausethey don't. They don't ever see it,
so it's not part of their experienceonline, and that they haven't been

(30:55):
gravitated toward it because they've been watchingTikTok or they've been watching YouTube. Can't
imagine why those platforms are trying tobe canceled. Yeah, So as you
look at this trust thing, itdoes split up by demographic groups, right,
and it depends on who you alignwith, either politically or whatever.
You're you're watching a certain channel andyou you probably trust that channel if you

(31:18):
have an affinity with it. Butif you ask the other people that aren't
watching that channel, do you trustthat channel? It's that's that's where I
think you see the fall off.Right, So gen Z isn't even watching
the big news channels, let alonelistening to local news radio or national news
radio or right, it's not evenon their I mean on a vast majority

(31:41):
basis, it's not even on theirradar. And is that because of trust
or is that just because of theirexperience online of not using those platforms or
those sources for information. Well know, you know who who's still listening to
radio? Right? Yeah? Youare? No people who don't know how
to get the stream to report livepanel Thursdays, I one thirty. The

(32:07):
average age of a public radio listeneris in their upper sixties. That's what
I'm saying. So people who looklook, I mean even when I was
in my when I was in mytwenties, which is like many moons ago,
I used to be on a sportsstation. But then sometimes I do

(32:28):
the sports on the news talk station, and it would always be my friend's
parents or grandparents who would hear me. It would never be anybody, you
know, my in their twenties whowould And this is this is not recent.
So uh, students, they werelike in the kitchen, you know,
you're over there like for some familybarbecue whatever, and they're like,

(32:49):
yeah, I heard you. I'mfamiliar. They knew that you were on
the radio. They'd hear my name, so they'd be like, oh,
my grandson's friend or whatever. Youknow, it's my grandson's friend. Yeah,
that's so cute. Well you haveyour name is highly marketable. I'll
never forget it. That's adorable.So what's going what's going on with transcripts

(33:17):
on Apple? Is that is thatavailable now or yeah it is? It
came out. Uh, if youupdated your iPhone or your Android, you
know iPad or I'm not an Android, but iOS iPad. It should have
come with that update. So thatcame out this week. So I have
it online now too, So butnot with the desktop app. Oh you

(33:42):
mean iTunes, the old I'm justlike old at iTunes or the I would
doubt that they're pushing any new featuresto that. I'm actually shocked that that
that app even still exists, rossthe one that I bring up in my
in my computer on your I hadn'tused it for years, but when you're
listening to the radio, Yeah,it's always been one of those sore spots

(34:07):
when I talked to Apple in thepast. Not so much because I've kind
of dropped it because it's kind of, you know, beyond the pale now,
but they would give everybody in thepodcast space hard time because they use
the word iTunes. Right, It'slike, no, it's Apple podcasts now.
But but you guys have this appon Mac that says iTunes still,

(34:32):
that supports podcasting, So what's goingon here? Why don't you guys upgrade
that app and drop the name iTunesif you want everybody to stop using it.
So, and this should be forall episodes or only for new episodes.
Do you think I'm just looking atI'm not sure the distinction of that,
but I would imagine it's going throughand doing as many of us as

(34:54):
it can. Yeah, I meanthey've been wor working on this. I
mean I heard them announce that theywere going to support transcripts like three or
four years ago, so they've beenthey've been working on this for a long
time. So I'm looking at myphone at an episode and okay, this

(35:20):
is a very old episode. I'mgoing to hit what's the three dot thing?
It says, uh, download episode, go to show, add the
Q, save episode, Marcus played, share episode, copy link, report
a concern. I am concerned.I'm very concerned. And YouTube has been

(35:42):
doing this for for what a yearor more, so I'm not surprised that
they added this. Plus, theydo have the option in the back end
for the podcaster to upload their owntranscript with the episodes right right. A
lot of hosts have that option,some even like stream Yard when when this

(36:06):
show is done, we'll give usa transcript. And it's pretty darn good.
If you did a solo show,Basically you don't have to do anything
with it, but take it andyou can use it. If it's if
it's a multi host, then you'vegot to identify the speaker. Yeah,
and I did hear from stream Yardthat that transcript will eventually be able to

(36:27):
assign speakers to arious parts of thetranscript, Like, holy moly, that
would be so helpful. Yeah,so it would identify who was speaking.
If you were like taking a transcriptof this show, it would be able
to identify my voice versus your voiceand then tag that content appropriately. One
thing you mentioned, Rob, andI wonder if either one of you are

(36:51):
using any of these is you mentionedAI tools that are making it easier for
small teams or solo creators, whetherthey do editing or they do other kinds
of repurposing of your your content.Yeah, I mean I think that that
is where it's where it's going.I think that's how these bigger media companies

(37:15):
need to start thinking about it.They need to start utilizing AI technology.
It's not good news for people thatwant to have podcasting jobs out there,
but maybe they need to pick upsome skills on how to use AI tools
to help make podcasts much more efficientin how they're produced and exported and used

(37:39):
in these social platforms. Yes,I know that. Tony reports in that
his workload, his whole entire lifthas reduced at least thirty to forty by
implementing AI tools. Where he usedto always be kind of grinding out,
He's been able to hit a kindof a sweet spot in the workflow by

(38:02):
utilizing those. They look good.They look good for one person, one
woman brand, Like, Oh,that'll be nice someday when I can export
this to my social feed. AndI gotta I got a little ways to
go. I'm just before I'm atthat level where I'm doing much more than
just hitting live once a week andbeing here with you guys. I just

(38:25):
don't know how far this is goingto go. I mean, it could
get to a point where where AIpretty much does everything for for sure.
All you do is create the contentand hit publish. It generates all the
metadata. And that's my dream,right, I know, right, because
it really does feel like that,Like, Okay, you're most some of

(38:46):
us are are are unless you're signinglike Kelsey level contracts, are still doing
client work, or or we're producingdeliverables, et cetera of some sort of
level or doing coaching calls, whateverit is. It feels like you're just

(39:07):
kind of doing this lift of themarketing aspect of it just constantly. And
sometimes it really can be like what'sit all for, Like it's like halftime.
It's like halftime work, just likechurning out all the show notes and
the scheduling and the d T D. And I'm not anywhere near your level

(39:29):
where that's a real serious business.It's a lot of work, it really
is. And even though we talkabout like chat, GPT and these tools
save save you time, they do, and they don't write because well there's
still some people may just take itout of the box and post it.
But like, even if I usethose tools, I'm doing a serious rewrite.

(39:52):
It's just to give me an ideaof like okay, I see a
structure here, I see but like, no, I'm not just taking what
comes out out of the box.And so it's still a lot of time
and putting in links and putting indifferent different you still have to add lists
and things I don't know, orprompt it well or prompt it well.

(40:13):
I've seen somewhere. I'm like,dang, I can't even compete with that.
Like if we take the transcript froma show and we take like a
positioning statement, and we put themall in together and we say, now,
be ten percent more snarky. Likeit pretty much hits a brand voice
very easily. And then I've seenothers where it's like whoa record scratch?
I thought you were you know,because it just kind of it reads cartoonishly

(40:37):
almost where it's a little cringey likeyeah, uh so. I think it
really depends on your the prompting aswell as how you use it afterwards.
Another thing I think is really powerfulfor is just constantly changing perspective. Like
now write this from the voice ofa Disney princess. Now write this from
the voice of like, you know, a Shakespearean actor or whatever. Whatever.

(41:00):
It'll just keep iterating. Now writethis from Howard Cosell Ross to it
Rebecca. I think I don't.Just before month, I think Rebecca has
a ghost on her screen. Haveyou seen this? What is this thing
that's kind of wavering up across yourcamera? Oh? Yeah, I wonder

(41:22):
what's reflecting? I wonder what's reflecting. I think it's a ghost is flawless,
it's a web, That's what itis. Not flawless. What is
it? I don't know. It'sinteresting. It's like it's in the wind.

(41:45):
It's like a reflection probably from alight, reflections from the way we
used to be. I can't evenfigure out its energy weapon. That's hilarious.
It's like, no more about theindustry of podcasting. Beauty Bubble needs
contents. Okay, Tony's lasering in. Hey, do not mention the tools

(42:06):
that I use. This is forbrit There is exactly I mean, I
mean somebody I know named Tony Tay. I don't even know what it is,
Rob Greenley, it does it doeslook like this searchlight. I think

(42:30):
it's it's definitely a direct energy weapon. Maybe it's reflecting off of look one,
two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight nine
copies of ons. Maybe that's wherethat's coming from. The heaven The heavens
have opened up. Let me sharesomething with you, guys. I haven't
showed anyone this. You get somethinginteresting, To get something new, you

(42:53):
know, you have to do anunboxing video. So I have a lot
of stuff sitting around here, andeventually I'll need to use something and then
I'll just go a I can't.I don't have time for the unboxing video.
But until then, it's just soanyway I've had I've held onto this
for two weeks. I'm not goingto do an unboxing video. The hardcover
version, oh a hundred predictions.What I'm so mad about the softcover.

(43:19):
That's awesome, Rob, But youknow what I think it is. It's
a hair on my camera lens.That's kind of what it looked like.
It was either a that is yougot it? Oh my god, let's
see. Let's I want to putit up to the mic and open it
for the first time, so itgoes yeah, yeah, that's that.

(43:42):
That that's correct it right, stackthem and rack them Rob Greenley. So,
of course, for those who maynot know, Rob Greenley, Rebecca
Gunter and Claudia Santiago, my cohosts here on the stream Leader Report Live
panel, also wrote the forward tothe book, and we had one hundred

(44:04):
and thirteen contributors this year, sothank you. It's not a hundred huh,
No, we go over one hundred. He always got to over deliver.
It should be one hundred plus.Yeah, one hundred plus pov one
place. I love that project.That was one of my favorite things I

(44:24):
worked on all last year. Thatwas awesome. Yeah, it was really
good. It was awesome. It'swhat a wonderful community to be in.
And I appreciate you reading it too, because we didn't do an audio book.
But if you go to the brandOn Broadcasting podcast or the Recordings podcast,

(44:45):
either one part of the livestream Universenetwork in Apple Podcasts or on your
favorite app, you can hear Rebeccaactually read the entire forward. So you
get a free audio book section ofthe book. How fun is that?

(45:06):
Yeah, Well, for people thereis video side. You can get that
an Apple Ross brand On video Alive reason enough shows to put it in
there. Should I find a coupleof other fast as well. I wish
you. I wish you'd drop astation identifier. Geez, we're all.

(45:27):
I don't know about you, guys, but earlier this week I was a
little concerned that we weren't going tobe able to communicate with each other to
prepare for this show today because ofFacebook being down h Q one thousand million

(45:50):
email marketers emailing their list. Ah, say, don't put all your eggs
in social media basket, because I'mI'm just looking at the numbers right now
of live viewers and we've got peopleacross all of our channels except for Facebook
as zero people watching. I wonderwhy so sometimes Facebook gets you good engagement

(46:19):
does at times there's a lot ofhumans come in. We got you know,
Glenn the Geek, Hebert and ChrisBarrows coming in from Facebook earlier.
But yeah, I have lost alot of users with that outage my thought.
But the point being now that thatnobody's watching over there, we can
actually say what we think. Comeon, come on, what's going on

(46:43):
with that? How great was thatit was out I didn't have to check
it for I didn't even notice.People are like, oh my god,
I'm like what I But there's noidea. It was too busy following you
on LinkedIn, ross your initiative.Yeah, Chris is on Facebook now,

(47:12):
Chris. We said nothing about Facebookthat you wouldn't you wouldn't approve of.
Oh, we love our viewers onFacebook. It's indeed, it's the difficulties
that the app sometimes has that canfrustrate people. But of course it's freak
and we look and uh, Zuck, if you want to boost this as
a thanks and appreciation, thumbs up, baby, it's shaking bake and we

(47:40):
helped. Right, so you're followingLinkedIn, I'm following you on LinkedIn.
Look, almost everybody I know it'slike LinkedIn is a place I've gotten so
many clients there that's really that's reallyhot to try it. I've never had
that. Every any hour each I'veever gotten from LinkedIn has been like,

(48:01):
what would you do with twenty fiveto one hundred and twenty five more qualified
leads from our team of blah blahblahs? How to generate content without a
copywriter? You didn't read that profilelike, I don't know, but are
you finding success on it? Becauseit feels performative to me when it's just

(48:22):
I don't know more noise, tellme, tell me to linked I'll do
it. If you say there's noI'm I'm testing it out. I will
you know at the end of theyear, I will give you some feedback
on what Right now, I'm playingaround and I'm I'm not more than pet
playing around, but I'm I'm enjoyinglike a new community, a new platform,

(48:47):
treating it more like, Okay,this is where I go to be
social, rather than this is whereI go when I want to cover all
my bases and make sure, we'vepromoted the show on every That's what I
mean about performative exactly. But isit going to What are the end results
going to be? I don't know. I don't know, and I have

(49:08):
to you know. I'm obviously myfocus will get sharper as I spend more
time on it and stuff. Butwhat more time is needed before I give
you, like, yes, devoteyour life to this platform, or no,
don't do it. I don't knowyet. I don't know yet.
But I'm enjoying the process, whichis something because I can't always say that

(49:31):
about all social What is your favoritepart about it? What's the thing that's
different. I like doing the newsletter, I really do. I mean I
like doing the newsletter, probably becauseI like Facebook, where I'm in seventy
thousand groups and hardly ever check inI'm in like one group, or that

(49:52):
I'm actually active in it all.So I don't know. I'm just it's
it's a new experience. But Ienjoy the conversations. I like the fact
that there's there's no real politics forthe most part on there. It's not
that I'm against people talking politics.I don't want it when I'm there to

(50:13):
do social media and business and thingslike that. So that's a nice that's
a nice thing. It's just adifferent it's a different feel. I think
it's an interesting community, and it'sinteresting to see the social media people who've
come over from other platforms, Likemaybe they weren't previously five years ago doing

(50:37):
much on LinkedIn, and now they'redoing a lot more. And I think
it's a good place to have thoseconversations. There's certainly not the volume of
content, so it's a lot moremanageable to go through notifications and things.
I don't think. I mean,I'm embarrassed to say this publicly, but
like I don't think I've gone tomy Facebook notifications and scrolled through that.

(51:01):
Like I just go back, like, oh yeah, remember that post,
let me see if anybody comments iton it, or you know, oh
I left a comment on on Rebecca'sthing. Let me see if anybody else
added the But but for the mostpart, I can't sit. It's too
much. It's too much. Imean, it's it's like hundreds and hundreds
of comments and things a day.I can't I don't have time for that.

(51:25):
But is manageable, Like I canliterally go down my notifications or at
least quickly hit the posts that Iwant to look at. And so it's
it's it's different. It's a differentvolume of content than than Facebook or Instagram.
I'll give it to you on that. And also the comments aren't caustic.

(51:46):
No, I mean, my god, that's a nice day out.
I don't have eyes like make mewhere you Yeah, exactly, there's just
like literally nothing you can say.My dog's sick, so it's not a
happy day outside. I don't getto have a dog. I'm a learning

(52:13):
so freedom from that for sure.Yeah. And I think normally before I
did this Facebook first thing, ifI was going to open up an app,
it would be you know, andjust scroll a little bit. It
would likely be Instagram, and I'dlook at photos or videos like I don't
really do the stories that much,but I'd look to scroll through my feed
whatever. I realized it's really notdoing anything for me, whereas if I

(52:35):
scroll in LinkedIn, I'm usually gettinginto a conversation about something substantive that you
know, is more related to businessand so forth. And so I think
again, it's it's a better usein my time when you get a when
you get a client from your LinkedInactivity, I'll take it to lunch.
Okay. I get contact did byby people all over the world trying to

(53:01):
pitch SaaS models and all sorts ofopportunities to join communities, and it's it's
really a pitch platform. Really,you really want to say, what that's
very that is super interesting, RobGreenley, what a framing well? I
mean changed my attitude just just withthat. It doesn't are you getting necessarily

(53:23):
make it bad, It's just that'skind of the activity that goes on there.
Are you getting pitched Rob products likethey want to work with you on
because of your prominence in podcasting,or you getting pitched just because somebody's going,

(53:45):
hey, I got a new thingthat lets you ten x your clients
or something too. And it's reallyusually mapped to the roles and the jobs
that I posted to my to mypro right, It's like I've got this
opportunity that will work great for streamYard, or will work great for in

(54:07):
Sounds, or will work great forthis or or that in my my profile
of my roles right. So it'sit's very targeted towards opportunities related to various
companies out there offering services to supportif it's you know, being a speaker,
getting media opportunities and mainstream media andthings like that. Right, So

(54:31):
if you're a media creator, it'sall these things kind of bubble around that,
and a lot of AI companies thatare are involved in media things like
that are constantly pitching me, andI don't mind necessarily, it's just some
of them don't really do a lotof research on on me before they pitch

(54:51):
me on something, because sometimes it'scompletely out of alignment, right, But
they'll they'll somehow get this impression likeI'm like the CEO of stream Yard or
something like that. You're you're notreally looking at my profile very deeply,
are you? You're just seeing thatI'm I'm I'm working with the stream Yard
and thinking that, you know,you can pitch me investment or HR services

(55:16):
or all this kind of stuff.So I'm constantly getting pitched for opportunities that
they're targeting towards stream Yard full timejob being popular. I don't know if
it's popular. I just think thatthe algorithm that LinkedIn has isn't as refined
as it needs to be. SoI'm just being well, look here,

(55:38):
we're getting pitched right now. Doyou need a thumbnail designer or video editor?
Oh my god, I desperately needa thumbnail designer. I probably No,
I'm serious, like I'm one forthe other. No, I'm serious,
so Abby, you should see mein Canva this morning. Like think

(55:59):
Think, Think like plus. Also, I don't know if all of you
guys realize this, but on someof these platforms like Instagram and Facebook,
there's like different layers of messaging thatare in those things. I don't know
if you guys have noticed that,where there's like messages that kind of go

(56:21):
into this kind of deep menu,uh you never open, but until you
remember, you don't even know thatthey're there. And if it's like if
you click a couple of layers downon the messages in these platforms, there's
like hundreds of messages that people havesent me that I didn't even know,
or they've they've added me to somegroup discussion or something like that, and

(56:45):
it's like, what why is thathappening? So there's a hashat campaign what
would Rob Greenley do? Mom?You don't even know. So there's just
so many layers of of ways thatpeople are communicating with each other now,
and I think this is an interestingtopic from the standpoint of managing all of

(57:09):
ours kind of flow of messages andcommunication. It's now moved so far beyond
email, where email also somewhat feelskind of a nuisance to some degree because
it's it's it's also full of spamand other types of things. And I

(57:29):
know that the Gmail platforms do apretty good job of kind of sorting stuff
to manage the inflow, but it'sit's really kind of a full time job
if you want to keep up withall of the messaging flow pathways that exist
in the world today. I know, Rob, I'm exhausted. Thank god,
I have a week off before wecome back. Yeah, you can

(57:52):
be a slave to the social platformsand that's all you do with your life.
I'd rather be just tell just toThursdays at one Eastern Standard time,
and with that we shall wrap upfor today. Thank you so much everybody
for joining us. It's been afun conversation and we are typically here on

(58:15):
Thursday's one thirty pm Eastern for thestream Leader Report live panel for Rob Greenley,
host of podcast Tips with Rob Greenley. You can see that tonight at
seven pm Eastern. Rebecca gunter businessin the Ross stone Fruit. Check out
her latest episode over on the stoneFruit channel. I'm Ross Brand, the

(58:36):
show is the stream leader. Report, take care, We'll see you next
week. Captain

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Podcast Economy 2024 | Censorship Coming to Podcast Platforms? | Panel (Ep39)