Self Publishing for New Authors with Dale L. Roberts (SLR 42)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm loving self publishing over the last three years, since
two thousand and one, the summer of two thousand and one,
I've done four books. I've got another one on the way,
and I'm hoping i'll be up to my six by
the end of this year. And I'm really fortunate that
I have a good friend and colleague who is I

(00:23):
think one of the most knowledgeable and generous people when
it comes to providing great information and strategies for self publishing.
But the average person when they get started, is so
overwhelmed by all you have to do to publish the book.
And I'm not thinking even about the writing and editing,

(00:44):
which can be taxing enough, but it's all the other
things that go into publishing a book, which we'll talk
about in just a moment. But I want to bring
on our guest. He's a best selling author and an
award winning author. He's got more than fifty books to
his name, including the Amazon self publisher. He's got the

(01:08):
how to write a book in forty eight hours, and
he's got a whole new series that he's working on
and a new book. He's also a fantastic YouTuber. His
main channel has nearly one hundred thousand subs. He's got
a podcast that's popular and has its own YouTube channel
that is continuing to grow. And he's a terrific live streamer,

(01:31):
knows all about how to handle a broadcast, how to
go live, how to engage community, and he's a good
friend and he's a very talented, talented communicator, and so
let's bring him on. It's Dale L. Roberts from self
Publishing with Dale Dale.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
It's great to see you, dude. I you know what,
let's just call it quits. That intro was far, it
was far beyond what I feel like I deserve. But yeah, thanks,
I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Man.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
It's always a joy to be here on your show.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Well, it's always good to have you back. It's always
a good time talking with you. And unfortunately not everybody
has your number, your ability to get a hold of
you in a pinch when they're doing this. And I
think your newest book, self publishing for new authors is
something that every new author, not just first time authors.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
There you go, you've seen it as well, should have.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
On their desk, in their bookcase, you know, by their bed,
because this is really the foundation of everything that you're
gonna need to know when it comes to self publishing.
You go through all the steps, you go through all
the resources. You don't make it too complicated. It's a
fabulous book. Tell us a little bit about the series

(02:59):
that you're doing in this book fits into the bigger
picture of what's coming next from Dalel Roberts.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
You know, it's been a number of years now that
I've been in the educational space for self publishing via YouTube.
That's a whole story in and of itself. I didn't
officially publish any books about self publishing until about well
four years ago. Next month it will be and I
it went really really well, award winning series, cracked up

(03:30):
a bunch of accolades with that one. It was fantastic.
But the problem is YouTube gets in the way, dang it.
So in the background, I was actually stockpiling a bunch
of books. I was writing those things. I think I
did two or three within the Nano Raimo and twenty
twenty one late twenty twenty one, and then I started

(03:53):
doing more, and then I did more, and I did more,
and then eventually I'm looking at this whole stockpile of
stuff and I literally have a blueprint for everything. You
could possibly need to know within the world of self publishing.
And so that's what I wanted to do is take
people from point A, the brand new beginning author, all
the way to point Z. So that way anybody, whatever

(04:16):
entry point that they're at, they can be able to
just dive right in. So let's say you're not a
new author, maybe you don't need to jump into new authors. Well,
the next book, which is going to be do about
August fifteenth, is going to be advanced self publishing for authors.
So someone like a Ross Brand who has done quite
a few books could be able to pick that up
and learn something brand new. Now not to say that

(04:37):
you won't learn something new and self publishing for new authors,
but it will build on that knowledge. And so that
was my big vision. And the other thing was to
I discovered an issue with how I was marketing myself.
It was goofy. I was putting Amazon's name on it
and it was for search engine optimization purposes. I was

(04:57):
calling it the Amazon Self Publisher Series. But the problem
is with advertising, if you're using Amazon advertising, you can't
do video ads with their name. Like They're like, no,
you can't. They would reject me and here's the thing.
My strong suit is videos like that is what I'm
supposed to be doing. And so when I found that
I was handcuffed on that one, that's when it hit

(05:18):
a breaking point and I go, what am I thinking here?
Why don't I just name the series the exact same
thing I named my YouTube channel number of years ago.
So that really helps in search engine optimization. So yeah,
it's been a fun process, but I'm gonna tell you this,
don't sit on eight books. It's hard.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
So what is the process of writing all these books
so that you can have them ready to go month
by month by month? Is it one at a time?
Is it write them all first and then plan the
launches or where are you in the process right now
in terms of the content, and then we'll get into

(06:01):
more of the sales side and the marketing side.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, so in a perfect world, I would say it's
best to just focus on one book at a time,
get the first draft done, go through three to four
rounds of edits, get it to a final draft, get
it formatted, get the book, cover all that stuff, and
then go for the publishing. But I'm a crazy person,

(06:26):
and I kind of know this.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
This whole a few books already done right exactly books right,
So right now as it stands, I have the final
draft of book three of all eight books now, the
following five books still need to go through their full
rounds of edits yet, but I anticipate here relatively soon,

(06:48):
I should.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Have book four in my hands within the next week
or two. It just depends a lot on my editor,
and we have such relationship that we kind of just
know each other well enough that you know, I'll be
able to get that right in my hands. I'll have
it done, turned around within a day or two, send
it back to her. She'll spit it back to me.
So it's a very good, ironed out process. But love

(07:09):
me some Genie Dvida. Genie Davida fantastic editor. I tell
people all the time, if you get the you know,
discretionary expense work with Genie, she is so good. She's
worked with indie authors and she's worked with traditional publishing authors.
Not to mention, I don't know if I've told you
this before, she's also done a lot of ghostwriting for
trad pub brands as well.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
You know, one of the things that stands out is
a lot of self publishing nonfiction books can be very dry.
They can like you know, step one, step two, step three,
step four, thank you for reading this book. Your ability
to tell stories and to bring some of yourself in

(07:52):
and some humor in and just make nonfiction interesting. Is
that just a natural gift you have or is there
skills that you've developed over time that have enabled your
you know, your books, which might seem like, Okay, this
is going to be a dry read, but I need

(08:12):
to do it so I know how to get my
book on Amazon and sell it turns out to be
a really fun and interesting read, even if by now
I know some of the fundamentals.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
How did you.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
Get to be such a really good writer for nonfiction
which is almost an oxymoor and of its helf? Right?

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Yeah, I appreciate the kudos on that one. It's very deliberate.
And there are some times where I'll stare at a
blank screen for a while because I know the information,
I know what I want to convey. But I know
with a lot of my contemporaries. I've read dozens of
books about self publishing, dozens probably more than anybody probably
should ever do. And I still read stuff about basics
and things like that because I want to see how

(08:56):
it's structured. And that's the problem is, You're right, it's dry.
You have to bring yourself, you know, a loaded frigging
you know, caraft fold of coffee in order to kind
of get through it. You're like, Okay, well, let's see
about getting through this. And that's the thing is, I'm
passionate about this bussus. I really love this business, and
I think that if I can't communicate it in a

(09:16):
way that keeps keeps people's attention, then what's the point
I'm wasting everybody's time. They can just google the information up,
whereas I want to get it to where I can
tell a story that gets it to where it really
anchors that point down and my readers can understand it
on a more visceral level, Like they'll go, oh, I
remember that story where Dale was talking about XYZ. Oh, yeah,

(09:38):
there we go. So I think I heard it a
long time ago when I was in the MLM business
and a multi level marketing and they said that facts
tell stories sell. That was one of the things They're like,
stop reading all of the information on the like the
supplement package. I want you to tell a story about
that supplement, because that's what people are going to be
invested in, not how many branch chain amino acids there

(10:01):
are or how many freaking calories there are. They're like,
you want to tell a story because that's going to
sell it so much better. And a good friend of
mine is Julie Broad of the Channel book launchers. Also
I almost feel like she pays really close attention to
a lot of my content and her big thing is
hashtag no boring books. So I almost feel judged sometimes

(10:24):
before I even put pen to paper because I know
that she's going to come in and go, what's this
boring stuff you're giving me? Like what it gives? And
I think where I really shine is going to be
on book four, which is networking for authors. Networking is
so important in business, and with networking for authors, I

(10:45):
had a story for every single point that I had
Because networking is overwhelming. It sometimes feels like it's a chore.
It sometimes is for someone who's introverted, it can be
very anxiety inducing.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
So my thought was, Okay, you're not introverted, are you. I?
Oddly enough a lot of people don't know this, but
I am very very much introverted I think they call
me an ambivert if you will, but it's I am.
I will get out and I will do the necessary
things I need to do because I know that in
order to succeed in my business, I need to not

(11:20):
just hide behind my keyboard and back inside a corner.
There have been a number of times I think you
and I have crossed paths at conferences before, and you'll
see me typically networking and such. But you've missed some
of the times where I've gone to some conferences and
I haven't said a word to anybody, Like I went
to twenty Books Vegas a couple of years ago, and
I talked to a handful of people, but for the
most part, I.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Just blended into the background because that's just my way.
I just get overwhelmed and such. But yeah, the networking
for authors, though, was somewhere that I just really got
into telling stories because I feel like there's so much
that a lot of authors and even business owners that
are missing out there from doing networking. Because man, how

(12:02):
many people have you and I introduced each other to
over the years. I mean, we have grown both of
our networks together from just introducing each other back and forth.
You already just introduced me to a couple other people recently,
so I'm just elated on something like that. But all
that to say this that it is something that if
you're sitting down to write a nonfiction book, Yes, the

(12:25):
facts are important, get them in there, but try to
figure out a way that can put your thumbprint on
it that makes it uniquely you and gets it to
where people can be a lot more invested because they're
gonna be less invested if you're just kind of going, okay,
you might as well have words like that, that's freaking boring, man.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
And it's the same way that you talked in your videos,
I think, especially in your live streams and when you're
answering questions and stuff. And I think that's what helped
me pick up the essentials of the strategy that you
present for you know, getting a best seller, making sales
in the early part, having a successful launch. Is the

(13:09):
stories kind of made it all fit together. It's like, Okay,
I need to do this, then I need to do that.
Oh yeah, that's where Dale went off the rails when
he was doing his third book. So I'm not going
to do that. So let's talk a little bit about
the new book. It's fantastic. If you're a new author,

(13:31):
you're getting ready to publish, you're thinking about publishing your
first book. One are the main things you need to
focus on? Get beyond the noise and like, what are
the key fundamentals that every new author should be aware
of if they're going to succeed publishing on Amazon and
some of the other major platforms.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
It all starts with the fundamentals and the basics. It's
first of all, doing your market research. Make sure there's demand.
You know, if you're just doing this to scratch a
niche because it's a hobby, then disregard anything that I
would give you advice, because I truly believe there are
some people out there that view this as a hobby,
and I don't want to take away from that love.
I don't want you to feel like you're less than

(14:14):
because you're doing it as a hobby. But if you're
looking at trying to make a substantial impact with your books,
you need to do the market research in advance. Figure
out is there a demand? Do I have an audience
for this? That's the most important thing. Now. The second
most important thing is the first draft. I think there
are so many people that have come to me over
the years that are so excited. They tell me about

(14:36):
their story or they tell me about the book and
the concept that they have and oh it's unique. Don't
tell anybody, don't tell anybody. Okay, did you write anything yet? No? No,
I'm just it's all up here. That's great. But until
we get some neurallink implants in here that's going to
take that book from within your head and put it
into an actual, you know, materialize it, that just doesn't work.

(14:57):
So that's going to be the most daunting I think
a lot of aspiring authors and would be authors run
into is getting that first draft done. And I can
say that from experience, at least for myself. One of
the biggest hang ups and one of the reasons why
I procrastinate, is I have this perfect image in my
head of how this book is going to turn out,

(15:18):
and so sometimes when I sit down, I put a
lot of pressure on myself to make it as perfect
as it is in my head. And I'm going to
guarantee you it will never be exactly as you had
it in your head. It won't because by the time
it goes through numerous rounds of edits. It's going to
be something different, if not better. So you have to
give yourself a little bit of leeway to write a

(15:41):
crappy book. Literally, just sit down and write a crappy book.
You're not going to publish it right away, that's okay,
and you and possibly only the editor will ever know
how crappy it is. And that is the thing is
I give you one hundred percent permission. This is something
I said, insaid this book. Do hammer garbage straight up.
Just just sit down, hammer that stuff out. It doesn't

(16:02):
matter how crap you might think it is, because I
guarantee you it is way better to have crappy material
that you can edit than a blank page, because you
can't edit a blank page. And that's what it really
comes down to is get that fundamental get the fundamentals
of market research, and get that first draft. That first
draft is just the hardest, biggest hurdle that you're going

(16:24):
to run into. And then if you find a good editor,
you should be able to get a good flow and
it'll get pumped out relatively quickly. Just depends on the
editor that you're working with. So for instance, with Genie,
it typically takes about a month in total to get
a book fully edited and ready to go. We could
probably do it quicker, I'm sure, but I never like, hey,

(16:44):
where's my book? But that is the biggest thing. Market research,
first draft, get that first draft done, and whatever you do.
Don't sit on that first draft too long, because otherwise
you're gonna end up with like seven books on top
of that one.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
What is the role of an editor the editor?

Speaker 2 (17:03):
A lot of people get this confused. They believe that
an editor is there to change how you sound. They're
trying to change your voice. A terrible editor will do that.
Bad editors will change your voice. Bad editors are going
to try to make substantial changes that it just isn't you.
A great editor is only going to enhance and refine

(17:27):
what you have. They're going to bring out your best voice,
so that way, whatever lands in the market is the
best version of you there is. And editors vary on
their roles and what they do, because there are a
few different ones, and I'm just going to tell you
the three that I typically use. I do developmental editing,
which is just an overview, an overhead view of what

(17:48):
you're doing, and if the structure is proper, if it's
flowing just as it should be, is missing any elements?
Is anything out of alignment? So it's more of an
overhead view. Then you go into copy editing, where you're
going in and figuring out, okay, line by line, is
everything reading as it should is this sentence as tight
as it should be? And then last, not least, is proofreading,

(18:08):
which is going through It's almost like having like the uh,
it's like putting a nice wax on your car. You
know where.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Da comma doesn't go here, You've got you know, a
double word here, right. That's where you're catching all those
those errors that you know, when you were reading for
comprehension understanding flow, you might have skipped over it when
you're reading at a faster pace. Does the same person

(18:36):
handle all three if you or do you tend to
you know, one person for the development and another person
for the proof reading.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
I have no very few authors that do this right now,
and I they will do separate sometimes because they feel
like having that separate set of eyes is going to
identify some mistakes and there is validity in that. I
truly believe that that is a great way to go.
But for me, I use just one and and Genie

(19:06):
just knows she's been in the business. I mean she's
an instructor at UCLA and does you know works with
editors and such, trains them up, and so that's why
I typically go with just her. But there are some
people that separated out. Now, what I would recommend is,
if you're looking for an extra set of eyes, get
a beta reading team. This would be some I'd say two,

(19:29):
no more than three readers that are familiar with your
niche and will be willing to go in and give
you unbridled, you know, feedback, like just completely unfiltered. That's
what I'm the word I'm looking for here. You want
unfiltered feedback from this person. So that way they're identifying
sure the TYPEOS mistakes and things like that, but they

(19:50):
will also identify developmental issues of like Okay, this doesn't work.
What do you You're missing something here? They bring in
a different touch to things. Now, I made the mistake
of I think this first book in the series, I
put in like two dozen beta readers and it was
a nightmare. It was a nightmare. Less is more, find

(20:12):
yourself a good one to three readers, and those people
they will be your volunteer army. They're gonna be the
ones that will help you out and pick out any
type of issues that you have and get it to
where you do have another set of eyes. Now, I
lucked out with self publishing for new authors, and that
Genie actually was training I think two different editors over
at UCLA, so they actually used this book as part

(20:35):
of their assignment and so they went through, they tore
it apart and such. Then Genie would go through and
correct all their corrections, so that way it was good.
I had three sets of eyes on this first book.
Did you see you saw the all of the notes? Yeah? Wow,
because it was in Microsoft Words, so it'd show who
the person was that would leave the comment or the correction.

(20:57):
So I was able to kind of break it out.
But yeah, and it also happened with book two. I
think I ended up having Genie and another editor, but
I think on book three was where it was just
strictly Genie. So I'm crossing my fingers hopefully Genie will
have some more students for these upcoming books. Because it's brutal.
I hate seeing all the red the red marks on

(21:17):
my manuscript, but I also feel reassured when I see
those red marks, because it just means that it's only
going to get better. I'm like, Okay, this is symbol
I can go through, and it's just going through and
looking at each one of those problems, trying to commit
that to memory of like, Okay, I messed up here,
and here's why. So then I'm able to go through
future publications and not have that same issue and not

(21:39):
have them banging their heads against the wall because I
keep making the same mistake. Like, for instance, Genie busted
me on in Due Time for whatever reason, there was
a dozen times, literally twelve times that I said it
throughout one book in Due Time. She was like, yeah,
you're allowed one time that you're allowed to say that
in your book.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
And I was like, okay, So okay, we've got We've
got the manuscript written, We've done the editing part. Now
it's on to getting the book ready to publish. Uh,
and then publishing. What are the biggest mistakes that new
authors make that they could just stop doing now and

(22:22):
then they can read your book and learn how to
do it the right way. What are the biggest mistakes
you're seeing out there when it comes to you know
your cover, your your formatting, how you're doing your your keywords,
and and you're all the general things that you need
to do on Amazon, your metadata and and all that,

(22:45):
and then your your marketing and promotion. There's got to
be a few ones that you just see over and
over again that you just like beat your head into
the wall. It's like, boy, if I could just get
my hands on this person, I could, I could straighten
them out and save them from a lot of a
lot of danger.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
I think I think the biggest issue, even before going
into the marketing phase of things publishing and marketing is
some folks don't hire an editor. And I totally understand
if you don't have the discretionary expense, that's fine, but
you need to at least get an outside set of eyes,
even if it is reaching out to my buddy Ross Brand, Hey, Ross,
could you could you look over this manuscript, send me

(23:24):
a to kind of corrections, get somebody outside of yourself,
because you are super biased and you're going to miss
out on very glaring issues. And I will tell you,
even with the set extra set of eyes, you're still
going to have some stuff that ekees through. Sometimes the
weirdest typos are they're like cockroaches, man like, they just
think they will they will last through a nuclear holocaust

(23:44):
in like six edits. You know you're kind of going,
what the heck, how did this make it through? But yeah,
that would be getting editors. Now when it comes to
the next thing, I think you identified a couple of
really big sticking points is the cover design. There's a
good reason why people say people judge a book by
its cover, because they do, and there has been like
every now and then I get someone who's just like

(24:06):
snarky that actually, let me give you a smacky for
that one there. Actually, you know, I don't look at
the covers. I'm just interested in the book. Yeah, that's
great for you. But about ninety nine point nine percent
of the market out there that doesn't know who you
are or the book that you've written, they're going to
judge it by that's cover. So that way, if it
is garbage, they're not going to buy it. It's just

(24:27):
it's it's a fact.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
If they search a topic on Amazon, what is going
to stand out from the entire mess of books pages
and pages and rows and columns and best sellers and
new releases that all cover the same topic, how do
I decide this one is one that I'll look under

(24:50):
the hood and decide if I want to buy or not. Right,
And that's that's the cover. It comes down to the
cover and the title.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Right. It's a lot like a YouTube video. It is
very much your.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Title is what makes you pick one video over another
a lot of times, yep.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
And the same is true with books. And so what
I would say is during your market research, your initial
you know, researching of your niche is, pay attention to
the covers that are selling right now, selling right now.
Don't think about these perennial sellers that are going to
forever be you know, selling things like Napoleon Hill for
crying out loud. They can throw anything into that one.

(25:28):
You know, it's thinking grow rich. You can have fifty
thousand different iterations of that. Pay attention to what is
selling right now. Go into a Barnes and Noble or
any store if you're in Canada, could raly be I
don't know, Indigo, any number of those things. Is take
the time to really research and look at those covers.
If you can afford it, I would recommend hiring out

(25:49):
a cover designer. However, if you are pretty good at
graphic design. So like, for instance, Ross is pretty good.
He sent me a cover design that he did himself,
and I'm like, actually it's not bad, man, And I'm like, yeah,
that's actually pretty good.

Speaker 1 (26:01):
Gotta give a lot of credit to my co O,
Kevin Colby that we use. He was on the computer
and I was like, what if we move this thing here?
What if we change that color? You know? But yeah,
I mean, but it's hard, and even when you do
it yourself, you're still remember my first Remember my very

(26:25):
first book. I had designed like two or three different
covers over the course of a month, staying up all night,
and you were like, hey, this is pretty good. You
could probably go ahead, and like there was one of them.
You're like, you could go ahead and publish this, But.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
It didn't look like this.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
It's like you only have to see it from a
pro for a minute and then you go and yeah,
I can't compete with that. That said, we may go
with our own design for this next book that I'm doing,
But in general, I would not advise most people to
do their own cover the right And I think also

(27:05):
after you've done several books and you reviewed a lot
of books and stuff, you at least start to get
a sense of like where things go, and you know
not to use too many images and too much you know,
self promotion and things which you know, a lot of
people the book is like a business card and they think,

(27:27):
you know, jee if I just put my face on
it and make my name really big.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
You know, which is fine. I'm sure you know.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Their family's gonna buy it either way.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
But everybody else, I'm gonna put it on fridge.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
It's kind of interested in what the topic is.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, there are there are exceptions to the rule that
there are some folks out there that can put together
a good design. But you need to also think to yourself,
are there other aspects of my business that I'm stronger
at and that I could focus on. If you're finding
yourself cash strap, what I would recommend is pump the brakes,
take your time, save up enough money to hire a designer.

(28:06):
But I'm going to tell you that, like for instance,
I shared with you, get covers ten dollars for an
ebook cover design? Are you kidding me? It's dirt freaking cheap.
I mean you're starting at a bargain basement price. So
that right there is going to save you hours, if
not a month, of doing numerous iterations. Let somebody else
do it. That's a pro that will analyze the market,

(28:28):
that will be able to honor any of the elements
that you're requesting of them and putting it in a
way that makes sense. The market's going to buy that.
But yeah, the book cover design is next, or is
the first thing you need to pay attention to. The
Next thing is your book description. Your book description is
your marketing copy. You need to have that dialed in.
It needs to get it to where again, you're not

(28:48):
just like, here's what the book is about. You're gonna
be like, oh, oh, excuse me, I fell asleep part
way through your book description because it's boring as hell.
We also need to address the fact that we're in
a generation of folks that are doing this scroll scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.
You can't be putting one giant block of text up

(29:09):
there about your book. You need to break that up
in a way that is appealing to the eyes. Makes
it simple, because if you're just feeding them little bite
sized pieces, they're more likely to understand what it is
at a glance versus someone that sees a giant paragraph
and goes, I'm not reading that, buy They're going through
the very next thing. So get it to where your
marketing copy is really starting to pop out, and get

(29:32):
it to where people know that, beyond a shadow of
a doubt, your book is the one that they want
to buy. And I got to tell you that there
are a lot of tools out there right now that
will help you with book descriptions. And I don't know
how you know hot of a topic. This is through
your platform, through your audience here, but artificial intelligence AI

(29:54):
is great at helping you dial in your book descriptions.
I actually use that for these first three inside this series,
I use artificial intelligence. What I did was I took
chat GPT free by the way, I dropped in all
the previous book descriptions. I said, study this. I want
you to see the format. I want to see the
words that I'm using. I want to honor this format.

(30:15):
And then I'm going to give you the title of
my book. I want to give you the keywords I
want to use, and I'm going to give you the
table of contents so you know exactly what's going on.
I was like, can you do this? A, I was like, yeah,
I got you. So I fired it off and I
got to tell you it probably took one, maybe two
variations before I finally had it all settled in. But
it came back with some stellar copy in so far

(30:37):
zelling pretty good amount of books. So I think that
we're doing alright with the book description.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
So it's just some fabulous I mean for self publishing
for new authors. We're talking with Dale L. Roberts from
self Publishing with Dale and his new book is self
publishing for New Authors. When I flipped the book over
and I read You've dreamed of becoming an author and
now you've written your first book, but how do you
get it published? I'm intrigued now, I mean, that is

(31:06):
really good. Was that AI? Or was that you coming
in and rescuing AI where you got the bulk from AI?
But you're like, oh, I better put my own touch
on that first sentence. But that is really strong.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Thank you? Actually it is. It is. I would say
ninety percent AI. To be honest, I really wish I
could say I tweaked a couple of words here and there,
because every now and then, for whatever reason, AI gives
you a bunch of flowery pros, like they're just like
using some words like no one would ever use in
real life. You're like, what are you doing? Like don
who says that? Like, so I had to go in

(31:40):
and just tweak a couple of elements and then a
couple of times it would give me very lengthy sentences
and I wanted to kind of make them just a
little bit shorter. But for the most part, yeah, it
it came back.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Like steal in and of itself writing those descriptions. You
can be a terrific writer, and you can write two
hundred and fifty wonderful pages, and then you look at
the back or you you know, what am I going
to put on the back? What am I going to
put on my sales page? And you think about doing
your own bio, and those are like tougher than writing
the book. So true it is, those are the three

(32:14):
toughest paragraphs I'll ever write, or the description and the bio.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree, and I feel that on
a whole different level. I know that at one point
actually hired a few people on Fiverr to do my
bios for me, but I have since Actually what I
did was I took all of my previous bios and
again fed it to chat ebt. It spit out exactly
what I was looking for, and I was like, boom done.
And by the way, if you didn't happen to notice,

(32:40):
you go on to any of the major retailers that
is available on that's my shameless self plug here. Everybody's
be like, this is all about his book. Yeah, of
course it's about my book. But you'll notice, actually the
book description, the blurb on the back cover is different
than what you're going to see on the different websites.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
So I ask you about that, how important is it
to tailor what's on the back of the book to
change that up for your say, your main Amazon description
or your main Barnes and Noble or any other bookseller.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
To me, my thought process is this is when someone
has a book in their hands versus when someone is
online or scrolling through their phone. That's a different customer mindset.
So when someone has my physical book in their hands
and they're looking at this, they don't need to have
this detailed marketing copy that I've done on the websites.

(33:34):
They just need to have something really brief. And the
other thing is too, is when you are filing or
registering your International Standard Book Number the ISBN for your book,
they need to have a brief paragraph and I can't
remember how many characters it's limited to. But if you
try to take the broken up marketing copy that you

(33:55):
would do on a website, it takes and it crams
it into one paragraph, so it looks really goofy. And
that's not such a big deal since not too many
people are going to access the ISBN versus like small
bookstores in indie bookstores or a Barnes and Nobles going
to see that attached to the ISBN. But it is
still a fraction amount of people that you don't want

(34:16):
to take that for granted. And you also look at
different websites, so for instance, ingram spark needs a short blurb,
so that actually has to be I think like almost
two sentences long. So I was able to take that
and cut it down to that. But also when you're
running any type of marketing or promotional campaigns through some
different websites, they don't want this long, detailed, broke up

(34:38):
marketing copy. They just want, hey, could you just tell
us what it is in one paragraph? Boom, And I
went ahead and got that, and again that was an
instance of anytime I go into chatch ebt, I've got
a whole thread put together with the instructions. So when
I ask for a new book, it gives me the
long description, and then it gives me a short description,
and then it highlights all the keywords that they use
in each one of those, which, by the way, game

(34:59):
changer having those keywords thrown in there, because you could
sit here and.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Try to do this like a tool you could sell. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
or create your own GPT or whatever. There you go,
self publishing GPT or something like that. But yeah, I
mean it's amazing what you can do. Okay, so real quick,
we'll talk Amazon, because that's the first place people tend

(35:24):
to go for selling their first book. Give me a
few tips that the few takeaways where people should start
to become knowledgeable about what to do on Amazon so
that they at least they start looking in the right areas,
because there's a lot too a successful strategy on Amazon,

(35:47):
and much of it I think you naturally wouldn't think
of if you didn't have an ally a friend, a
great book like self publishing for new authors on your desk.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, what I would say is going to be that
if you're looking to publish on Amazon. Obviously, and I'm
going to have to be very anecdotal, I would have
to actually look up some sources on this one, but
I think the last I saw it's they control about
sixty to seventy percent of online publication profits so far.
So this means that putting your book on Amazon is

(36:23):
going to do you great favors. Not having it on
there is going to be a disservice to you. Now,
if you're anti Amazon, don't put it on there. That's fine,
just understand that you're really missing out on a huge
market that you can leverage. Now, the best path to
getting Amazon. Getting your book on Amazon is going to
be kindled direct publishing. Like hands down, It's going to

(36:44):
get you the best royalties, it's going to give you
the best control for your metadata. It's the direct pipeline,
and you won't have any issues with going through them,
say versus if you were to use another distributor like Ingram,
Spark or Draft a Digital. Big shout out to Draft
the Digital by the way, those ones they will distribute
to Amazon. But the problem is, first of all, they're

(37:07):
going to take their pound of flesh. They're going to
take a percentage of your profits that are going to
come through there before you get it, where As opposed
to Kindle Direct Publishing, just one middleman, just Kindle Direct Publishing,
So they're just going to take their cut, whereas Ingram Spark,
Draft the Digital, Amazon's going to take their cut. Ingram
Spark CA and Draft the Digital is going to take
their cut, and then you finally get your cut. And

(37:27):
the other issue that runs into is going to be
the out of stock option when it comes to print books.
For whatever reason, Amazon has this weird hang up with
anybody that's not KDP. They will put an out of
stock button over on your landing page. So if you're
running Amazon ads through something like that, it will shut

(37:47):
off that ad because there's no books to send people
to and if it's out of stock, you're screwed. And
the problem is if you go and approach each to
these companies, they will say, oh, Amazon's at fault, and
Amazon will go, oh no, Ingram Spark is at fault,
and it's just a circular like thing where they just
keep saying So that's why.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Use KDP for getting your book on Amazon, and then
use something like draft to Digital to get the ebook
in all the other sellers, but not for putting it
in Amazon. Then use Ingram to get your paperback, for example,
in all the other booksellers, but let the paperbacks that

(38:26):
Amazon selling let them do their print on demand thing
through KDP.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah. Absolutely, And a lot of people want to know,
and this this is a very popular question, so I'm
sure someone's going to ask this is can't I use
all of those avenues? Absolutely, you just need to be
aware that there is some overlap. So for instance, Ingram
Spark can Drafted Digital both use the same print distribution
through Ingram book Group, So you'd want to use Ingram

(38:52):
Spark or Drafted Digital, not both for print distribution. However,
if you're looking at a little bit more of the
selectability of being able to choose one avenue and not another,
draft that Digital is going to be your better choice.
But we're starting to go into the weeds of something
for more advanced authors. So I recommend if you're focused
on Amazon, go with Amazon KDP first and then look

(39:15):
at those other distribution options. And that's going to be
the biggest thing. So the next thing is you need
to make sure that your keywords are dialed in, meaning
that search engine optimize your books with the proper keywords.
So what are the keywords that are related to your book.
Don't just think about, well, this is a profitable keyword,

(39:36):
I'm going to go ahead and attach it to it.
Throw that out the window. Think about what your ideal
reader is going to be searching for. What are they
going to be searching for, and will your book be
brought up with it? Those are the keywords you want
to associate with it. Now. Keywords are so overwhelming, That's
why I wrote an entire book about it. So rather
than us talking for the next two hours about keywords,

(39:57):
I figured probably the next best option is talking about reviews.
Reviews are the lifeblood of your success on Amazon, in fact,
and the Amazon Advertising Certification course. I feel like someone
pulls a string out my rear end for me to
go ahead and say this every time, ninety one percent
of customers on Amazon will look at the reviews before

(40:18):
making a purchase. This is sit wide. I had some
people that are like, oh, that doesn't reflect books alone. Okay,
let's just say, for instance, if books alone was a
lot lower, it can't be too much lower if everything
averages out to ninety one freaking percent. So this means
that you need to get those reviews and ratings going

(40:40):
as soon as it's published, and it always starts with
a good advanced reader copy team. An advanced reader copy
team are a bunch of people. They're kind of like
your street team. You give them a free copy of
your book before the thing publishes, and you say, hey,
in exchange, I just need you to leave a review
on launch day. When launch day comes, you notify them
they dropped the reviews on there, and that is going

(41:02):
to make a big difference. Now, how many do you need?
Ideally you want to get fifteen reviews or more with
an average rating of three and a half stars or greater. Now,
hopefully you're not, you know, putting out your first draft
hammered garbage. You probably have put out a good book
that is very well edited and it is very professional.

(41:22):
So you're probably going to see more than three and
a half stars. Now, for some reason it goes below
three and a half stars. It's not the end of
the world. Just go out write a second edition, make
it better. I ran into that issue. I wrote a
book for seniors and this was a number of years ago.
Oh my gosh, I learned real quick they did not
like that book like and it was because the pictures
were too small and the print was too small. Oh

(41:45):
my gosh. I spent twenty years in the healthcare industry
working with seniors, and here I put out a book
with the same size font in the same size pictures
as somebody who doesn't have side impairment. And that was
goofy on my part. Thankfully I fixed the problem. Those
average ratings came back up, but I'll tell you what
it suffered. But all that to say this, get those

(42:05):
reviews going and continually look for new reviews, because as
you add more reviews, it's going to create some relevance
in the algorithms of oh okay, there's some activity on
this product page, so they're going to recommend more readers
come there and try to get them to buy it.

(42:27):
So get those reviews possible.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
So reviews aren't just about social proof or recommendations for
people who find your page. It actually helps you in
the algorithm to have more.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Reass Yes, it's not quite as strong as it used
to be, but it is still very strong because again,
you're looking at again, ninety one percent of customers looking
at that review. But that algorithmic relevance adds up after
a while, and customers will say the words the keywords
that you want associated with your book, and then that

(42:59):
is indexed on your product page, making it more discoverable.
So get those reviews rocking and rolling. Now. I'm not
telling you to go out and pay someone to put
fake reviews on your stuff. You need to get some
legit reviews on there. And again, I've got an entire
book on how to do get reviews called Amazon Reviews
for Books, but it is a rather fifteen.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
If you want fifteen reviews, how big of an ARC
team do you have do you need to have to
actually end up with fifteen reviews? Because we know everybody
that you send a copy to isn't going to end
up putting a review on Amazon.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
You said exactly what I was thinking too. That's that's
the thing is I tell people the rule of thirds,
thirty percent of your audience is actually going to leave
a review. It's no offense to you. Life gets in
the way. Someone didn't finish.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
People sign up with good intentions, it's just you get busy,
they get busy yep.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
And here's the thing is, I mean, I've got this
whole series of books right now, and they're going one
month after the next, after the next, after that. I'm
going to allow some readers to get the second book
if they haven't reviewed the first book just quite yet.
That's okay. But then we go over into the third
book and I see they haven't reviewed my first two books. Bye,
you're out. If you're not going to get any more free.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
Stuff, you're not getting ten free books.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
No.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
No.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
Story Origin's fantastic for that, a great service.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
Sent a tool you'd recommend for anybody putting an ARC
team together.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Absolutely, you can look into story Origin or book Funnel.
Either one of those are fine. Book Sprout is another
one that you can get advanced reader copies, and there's
a more priceier option. I'm actually using them right now.
It's called net Galley. Net Galley is. It's a huge
pool of readers. But I'm going to tell you they
are very discerning readers. So if you are not coming

(44:46):
with your your A game, you're going to suffer. They
will come in and they will absolutely just plunder you.
And these are not paid you know readers. These are
readers that you know are going to give you one
hundred brutal, honest truth. And I've seen some authors just
get killed on net Galley. This is the first year
I've ever used net Galley, so crossed.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Let me know how it goes.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
One of the cool things in flipping through your book
is I say, you've got some relationships here with some
of the top brands in the space. I'm seeing my Blard,
I'm seeing DIPLI create Drafted Digital Book Award pro Are

(45:33):
these books sponsored? Is this a series where you've managed
to open up another line of revenue.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
I will tell you yes, it is. Those are sponsored
ad placements. And this was something I had thought about,
I think earlier this year, and I was like, let
me get a sponsor for my book, somebody that can
get in there. And because I mean, I've got plenty
of sales, I've got the right audience. So if I
find the right sponsors for the right audience, it just

(46:02):
only makes sense. It's a match made in heaven. But
I had in conversation with creator Wizard Justin Moore, not sure.
If you're familiar with Justin fantastic guy, you need to
have him on your show if you ever had. He's
just so dynamic. Love the guy to death. I go
and DM him over on X and this dude, I
tell him, I'm like, I'm excited. I'm like, oh, we

(46:22):
can get a sponsor for our books. And see now
he's in the midst of writing his first book, and
he goes, yeah, check this out. He gives me a link.
Not even a week prior. This guy goes and already says,
I'm going to be getting three to five sponsors for
my book, and I'm also going to do some white
label versions of this book. So like a CEO from

(46:43):
a big company can always write a forward and then
he would just do an offset run of books that
he would provide that company at X amount of dollars
per book. And I was like, oh, here, I'm feeling
like chump change. And I'm like that is brilliant. And
so I just he and I were just kind of
volleying back and forth some dms, and I kind of

(47:05):
came to the understanding of like, let's get three to
five good sponsors. Now here's a funny thing is this
is a month out from me publishing this first book.
So this was less than a month ago that I
got all this put together, and a lot of companies
don't move that fast. Thankfully. The dream companies that I

(47:27):
wanted to work with, which was midl Art for book
cover design, which they're doing my cover design and my
interior formatting already, I wanted to have them there were
my one that I wanted to start with.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Which great.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
By the way, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
It really does. The branding is so strong.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah, I did a lot of great help from Miblart
did it did downe there and as well as in
my discord community. I had a lot of authors that
this was the fifth iteration of this cover design. It
was the fifth, so Midlart went through all through a
war to get to this point. But the nice thing
is I've got the current second cover design iteration. It
may need like a couple of tweaks, but other than

(48:05):
that though, it's it's literally ready for the market. But
I'm sorry I got derailed for a second there, So you.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Were going through your different sponsors.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, I got the dream brands put together. So the
really cool thing is my fifth dream brand. Unfortunately, it
was a budget concern and as well it's unexplored territory.
A lot of companies aren't used to influencer marketing, and
usually when they are heard of influencer marketing, they typically
expected in video form. So actually, the funny part is
I had some companies that were like, nah, but we'd

(48:37):
like to work with the video sponsorships. It was great
because they channel for you, right so exactly, so that
right there was I was able to, you know, at
least still continue this conversation even though they're not in
the book. But yeah, I ended up talking with three
additional brands that were my dream brands. Drafted Digital fantastic

(49:01):
self publishing company. It is run by indie authors for
indie authors. I am the biggest fan of Drafted Digital
and I tell them all the time Chris Austin, big
shout out to the CEO Fantastic Guy because.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Them, I use them for all my ebooks outside of Amazon,
and then I use their books to read, which gives
you a free universal book link and it's really cool
because it shows you all the different chops that they've
put your book into or you can put your book into.

(49:34):
And so if somebody doesn't like one place and wants
to shop from another you could send them that link
and they can purchase their favorite format. So yeah, it's
it's a great The two of those together just fit
like handling. Love Books to Read and Draft to Digital.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
Did you ever see their analytics that you can go
in there you can actually see where people clicked on
and when they clicked on it. So that's the other
thing that I really love because then it will show
you where you should probably spend more of your time
in marketing promotion. So if there's a lot of traffic
that's being driven to Apple, then you know you're gonna
probably want to lean into that just a little bit more.
But yeah, Books to Read is fantastically Yeah, Drafted Digital

(50:13):
was one. Let's see. The other one was book Award Pro.
I love book Award Pro. They have been a game
changer for your business in mind, Like we've gotten racked
up a lot of awards from them, and more recently
they actually have the review service that you can get
reviews on your books too.

Speaker 1 (50:29):
Yeah. I actually picked somebody off the list who I
thought would be you know, I just looked at what
she had done and I said, you know what, I'm
gonna pay for a review? I want to get that
serious review from somebody who's got a critical eye and
you know, hopefully it's good and I can use as
an editorial review. But either way, it's just great to

(50:50):
get that feedback from somebody objective who's you know, not
within my sphere of influence. Right. Absolutely, he's gonna you know,
someone's not gonna tell me what I want to hear.
The other cool thing is some of the book awards
will write write reviews as part of your book application
or if you if you buy the book review, they'll

(51:12):
enter you in their their awards like Literary Titan and
Standing Creator Awards and stuff. So you know, that's great
stuff for your Amazon editorial reviews.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's book award pro fantastic. It's really good.
And I mean, considering it's free to you know, more
premium options, I think there's something for everybody. Uh well,
regardless of your budget. Now, a lot of people, unfortunately
get the misunderstanding that they think all book award pro
or that book awards are all going to be free
and those you know, you have to remember that there

(51:46):
are a judging panel. There are people that need to
be compensated for their time and they're not just going
to sit here and read dozens and dozens of books
and not be compensated. So that's why that some Book
Ofward programs will charge money. A lot of them do,
and same thing goes for some reviews and such. There
are you don't want to pay for reviews that are
going to be posted on Amazon because that is against
their policy. But you can be able to pay for

(52:08):
those reviews in editorial sense, meaning that you can be
able to post it on your cover, inside your book,
you can do it on your social media and your website,
and you name it it is.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
They can post that to good Reads, even though they
won't post it to Amazon, which is interesting because Amazon.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Oh yeah, Amazon own's good Reads. It's super confusing, right,
They're like, yeah, you could do it here, but not
over here. Yeah, it's it is something else. But yeah.
The fourth sponsor ended up being diply Create, and I
know the founders of the company. I've actually been following
them and working with them for the past year now.
They actually launched their writing writing software called diply Create,

(52:47):
which actually has integration with AI. It's just been fantastic.
It's opened my mind to a lot of different possibilities
out there, but love me some deeply create now the
other dream brand Unfortunately, Again, I don't want to throw
them under the bus and be like, yeah, they didn't
have the budgets. It was Ross. It was Ross. Ross
told me he didn't have the budget.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
Didn't pull through this.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Yeah I didn't pull through. Sorry I fell through. Now
totally joking here, folks. I did not approach Ross about that,
but yeah, those it really helped out. And I got
to tell you it was this substantial amount of money
that it helped offset some of the costs for my marketing,
promotional uh stuff. So that means that I need Amazon set. Yep,
they I got them agreed to all eight books. I

(53:27):
got them to agree to all eight books. That was
the problem is. I actually had some people that were like, oh,
could I just do one book and see how it goes?
And I was like, I'm sorry, It's it's either you know,
all or nothing. I was just like, you know, if
if you want to experiment, we can always go to videos.
But I'm like, it's going to be all or nothing.
Because I wanted to have it to where when someone
reads book one, they'll be able to see the same

(53:49):
format going to book eight, that they'll be able to
go see draft, the digital draft, the digital draft, the
digital They know that I wholeheartedly stand behind it as
opposed to you know, I get a bunch of shot
gun brands in there and it's not sticking to people's brains.
You know. I want these brands to be successful. I
want them to see a return on their investment, for one,
not not just to get more sponsors for future books,

(54:12):
but also so that way there's proof of concept and
I could be able to charge a higher premium and
bring in additional sponsors. Now, I'm not going to turn
it into a Sears Roebuck catalog, all right, I'm going
to limit it to no more than five because I
think that's that's right there if you were to do
I mean, just right now, as it is, there's four advertisements.
They only take two pages because it's front and back

(54:35):
and so that way people can kind of flip through
it and not have it be too interruptive.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
But very tastefully done. I think they really fit with
the book. They don't stand out as like bam, like
like you put a billboard and you know, in the
against black and white text or something it looks like
it's appropriate. It's it's it's it's a good fit for

(55:00):
your genre, for your niche. I think it's brilliant. It's
you know, I think I've told you this before. There's
so many different things in the self publishing industry that
I just had never thought of. And when you talk
about the ads, that's that's just another one that never
occurred to me. And did you did you come across

(55:20):
many people who do that? Or is this you're kind
of breaking new ground with this strategy.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
I've seen trap pub books do it before. I know
that a lot of the folks in the self help space,
I will typically see it in the back matter of
their book. They will typically they will promote their backlog
of books, but also they will recommend any of the
other books that are within the whole umbrella of that
trad pub brand. I'd seen that before.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Because a lot of times you see people right promoting
their own products right in the self help They've got
a vitamin or some you know, some concoction that will
you know, make it feel better. That'll be at the
end after you read through their their book or whatever.
But you often, I mean, I just don't remember seeing

(56:06):
like something like this, and I think, you know, for
for for your niche, it's just it's perfect. I mean,
these are the these are top companies that really help
a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
So it lends credibility to me as well that having
these brands here, because they do come with a great
reputation in the business. So that's why I really want
them to win big, because first of all, it makes
me look good. Having them associated with me and having
drafted Digital was always just kind of a pipe dream
of mine. They had approached me about sponsorships on the videos,

(56:40):
but because I do tend to be very critical of
a lot of self publishing companies and such like that,
i'd stopped working directly with any of self publishing companies
and doing sponsorships on my videos. But this one seemed better.
This seemed like the right like the right opportunity and
the right time and the right place to go ahead

(57:01):
and showcase them. And so I was just elated to
be able to do that. So hopefully we'll be able
to see something here relatively soon. But I will tell
you this that again, these sponsorships came at a pretty
good decent amount. I was rewarded handsomely. And here's the
really fun part about it is, in traditional publishing, a
lot of people go after traditional publishing deals because they
get paid in advance, meaning they're paid money ahead of

(57:25):
the book launching in hopes that they will recoup those costs.
This was almost like me giving myself an advance that
I was able to get money in a head and
I'm literally just going to do a Mister Beast on
this one where I'm not giving it away to everybody,
but I'm going to reinvest it into my business. I'm
going to take that and I'm putting it into ads
for this book. And as this series grows out, it's

(57:47):
going to get a lot more expensive, but thankfully all
that cost has been offset through this advance that I got.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
Well, congratulations, It's a wonderful book and so many great
business opportunities I'm sure will continue to come out of
this series. Self Publishing for New Authors. A guide for
writing and publishing your first book by Dale L. Roberts.
Check out the YouTube description if you're watching the video
or wherever you're watching it. If you're on the podcast,

(58:16):
it'll be in the show notes a link to get
the book. In fact, we'll have a link to the
Amazon self publisher as well, and how to write a
book in forty eight hours. Dale's just some of Dale's
many books. He's also got books on health and fitness
and diet and everything in that genre. He's a terrific author,

(58:43):
a good friend, and of course an amazing creator. And
I certainly couldn't have had the success that I've had
with self publishing without your knowledge, your help, and all
the resources that you've pointed me to as well. So
I highly recommend Dale's books, and again check the description.

(59:05):
Wherever you're watching or listening, there'll be links to all
the books. So next up is a book Dale for
more advanced writers and authors, So there's gonna be something
for everybody. And many of the books in the series
to come dropping every month will have topics that you

(59:27):
can build on as you go along different aspects of
self publishing because there's so much to it. And of
course Dale's got the self publishing with Dale Podcasts, where
he drops all sorts of news and interviews and views
on everything that's going on in this fascinating and constantly

(59:47):
changing industry. So with all that long winded, Dan Newmont,
since we're talking authors here.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Dale.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Thanks so much for coming on and again congratuate relations
on the new book and all your success with video
and self publishing and podcasting and everything else you're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
Thank you, brother. I appreciate you having me on

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