August 25, 2024 • 12 mins
In this podcast-only version of Studio 640, the panelists discuss Google’s plan to invest $250 million in local journalism and AI research. The Governor touted the plan as ground-breaking, but critics say the deal was done in secret and lets Google off the hook for having to pay media companies for their content. In fact, some well-known journalism organizations say they were never consulted about the plan and question the method in which the money will be spent and who will get it.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, we just wrapped up our radio show recording our
incredible episode and now we're going to be doing Studio
six forty plus and three topics were submitted before the
show started, and we selected the one that Google partnership
with California to support journalism industry. Whose idea was that
that was fine? Nico Okay, So why is that an
(00:21):
important one to talk about it?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, I mean, of course I thought it was very
relevant to to our show and what we talk about here.
But so this just came out, you know, a.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Day or two ago.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So Google apparently is agreeing to shell out two hundred
and fifty million dollars to support the journal in the industry.
But you know, people have got some mixed opinions about it.
So you know, it's a rare partnership with California to
support journalism across the state and also help in the
experimentation with AI within the industry. And you know, the
(00:50):
deal came on as as lawmakers they were pushing the
big tech companies to compensate news organizations, right because you know,
as advertisers and readers are transition from print to social media.
So and you know, because there were reports of the
industry losing a lot of its reporters and papers closing downs.
That's been a big issue, and so the money is
(01:11):
aimed to be funneled into sustainability initiatives of the outlets
and hopefully ensure their survival of the newsrooms. So that's
kind of the gist of what's going on here.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So who gets to decide where the money is spent
and how much goes to those organizations or individuals?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hmmm, good questions, Steve.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, because I I you know, here's the thing that
that was born from the fact that Google did not
want to pay out. They don't want to pay for content.
That's what that was born from. So they came up
with this thing. And there are critics out there that
say that the reason that this is a not a
very good idea is that journalists were not consulted, okay
for this program. I mean, I think on the surface
(01:49):
it sounds like a great idea. Anything anything that that
that pumps money into the sustainability of local journalism I support.
But there was no infrastructure as to how it was
going to be disseminated or distributed rather, and how it
was going to be you know, who gets to determine
it and who gets to be the arbiter of which
journalists outlets benefit?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I'm also curious, like how is Google benefiting? Like, are
like where's the two hundred and fifty million going to
be spread out to? Like like what if they spread
out to specific news organizations and then like they kind
of want something to return, like maybe like I know
open AI has been talking to like the Atlantic and
the Verge for you know, or box media right to
(02:32):
get rights to train their data off of their work.
So I'm like, is Google Like what is Google's like
what do they get out of it?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah? I mean I think there were some projects that
were focused on AI to be able to use that right,
and then they would give you know, some of the
ad revenue when material from the news outlets would get
used with the AI tools. It seemed like that's what
some of the projects were focused on.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So some of like Google gets a basically a lab
experiment and they don't have to pay for content, right,
so they they win twice?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah exactly, yeah, ran and yeah, what do you think
it's confusing? So they give the childred and fifty million
dollars to these journalism organizations and in return, these these
outlets have to use A to use AI.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No AI. I think AI testing is one component of
bigger projects. So they want to invest some of that
two hundred fifty million into AI research and how it
might work with journalism.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, because the main thing they want to try and
strengthen like local media outlets and things like that, so
that have been suffering.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, by the surface, it sounds like, you know, they're
trying to be progressive because it looks like AI is inevitable.
It's gonna come and it's going to be part of.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Our Are you ready for AI to take your job?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I am not.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
No.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I wake up and when I think about it, I'm like,
oh my gosh, Like sometimes I did what am I
getting myself into? Because you know, AIS sound scary. You
could use it and you can make it seem like
it's either yours a plagiarize or you could.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Just well that's already happening. Yeah, but it's gonna be
a long time since before or there's gonna be a
long time before AI takes over what we do. It's
gonna be it's a.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Long way time.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, I think AI right now. You know, there's no
way it can it can compare to like human emotions
and reactions and things like that. I don't know if
it'll and I.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Don't know that AI was going to be designed to
be the replacement, because if that's the thing that I
was always confused about. And Jacob and I had gone
to the National Association of Broadcasters in February and Las Vegas,
and our primary mission was to find out how AI
was going to be used in news, and there was
this subject matter expert there. She's major corporations hire her
(04:51):
to come in and she tells them how AI might
be able to work for their company and how they
might be able to integrate AI. And I wanted her
to tell me how will AI be used in journalism?
And she said, we're way, way, way beyond that because
or we we're far away from it because AI has
(05:12):
to pull from something. And you were talking about Eric,
you know that they wanted to enter into agreements to
pull from Fox News resources and other outlet resources. So
if Fox News was reporting Box Media, Vox, I'm sorry,
Vox not Fox.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Okay, sorry, Fox is working something too.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Oh yeah, oh they all are, but Vox Media, so
Box Media or any of the other outlets. So let's
say AI is pulling from that. So if they say, uh,
so jat Chatt, GPT or Google's Gemini, uh tell me
what happened at the JFK shooting. So all you're going
to get is what vox has reported. So it's only
(05:51):
it's only one dimensional based on the type of information
data available right right, So if you were to use
AI now and go to Google Gemini or to Chat,
GPT or AI of your choice and ask for the shooting,
it's going to be all over the map because how
many different versions of the shooting of JFK are there
(06:12):
out there in the ethernet right right, So when you
talk about sure, I mean look it up if you
want to. It's just a good She used that as
an example because there's a lot of his historical data
that is still being argued about. You know, when you
talk about slavery or when you talk about other very
controversial issues, if you are going to rely on Chat,
GPT or Google's Gemini to tell you that story, to
(06:35):
write you a story about that, it's going to be
a very bizarre story and it could be very lopsided
because it's going to be pulling from data that's not
all accurate. That makes sense, right, Yeah? Yeah, So again,
what's Google getting out all this?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It seems like, okay, Open AI and Google when they
make these deals, I feel like they're kind of taking
advantage of where the journalism industry is that right now,
I don't know. I mean, I just think like the
New York Times is fighting it because they have not
signed the open Ai ideal, but other companies have, and
it just feels like it's like an inevitable thing, like
(07:11):
we just had to like succumb to like.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Being Yeah, and that was one of the things, you know,
some people who weren't exactly you know, ecstatic about this
this new partnership was that they felt partnering with one
of these businesses that could literally destroy journalism jobs and
journalism right, And so that was a big criticism from this.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
But I think Nico, to your point, there's no emotion
in AI, right unless you tell AI to be emotional, Yeah,
to tell right.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Mimic this person's voice, this.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Style because they don't have their own person.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, but isn't isn't part of artificial intelligence being Also
part of that is learned response, So isn't it supposed
to be smart and learn these things and eventually develop
its own version in its own approach. Is that sort
of the whole idea, that it's starting to learn and
learn and learn and learn. Eventually it'll start to do
its own decision making. Isn't that sort of the idea?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah? And I saw the CHATCHYBT four, like the voice one,
the voice speaker will pause like a natural person would,
will say or laugh, you know, and I just feel like, Okay, well,
if they can mimic personality in voice, they can definitely
do it in writing. So like when people say like
(08:31):
we still got that human connection, I feel like AI
could mimic that, but the reader really cares. I think
readers care if it was written by AI or not.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Sure, but I do feel like, you know, if they
were trying to be sound like an actual person, I
think a lot of people would still be able to
tell the difference it was a real person or talking
to someone even right, and you're talking about voice, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
There's been some stuff I've seen online media that I'm like,
what you know, and then some outlets are compelled to
put disclaimers on there. Yeah, there was a documentary on
the Lou Pearlman. You guys remember you guys who know
who that is? He was the one that started the
Backstreet Boys. I don't know, is it Backstreet Boys.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Or was he like a Simon Cow of the nineties.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
No, well, yeah, kind of, but he's the one that he's.
He was the one that started the boy band craze
because he was it Backstreet Boys. Yeah, I think it
was Backstreet Boys. It was both it helped me or
say it Backstreet Boys. Those are the two that he's
And then the reason the reason I'm bringing up is
because in the documentary on Netflix, because this guy was
(09:41):
kind of a genius, but he was also kind of
ripping him off at the same time behind the scenes,
and that's kind of what the documentary was talking about.
But they were using a video of him and putting
an AI voice based on his past interviews. They synthesized
his voice to make him look like he was doing
it because he's dead and they're making it look like
he sat down to do an interview for this documentary.
(10:05):
And then they just at the very first first few
seconds they goo, this is an AI generated voice, and
then it fades away and then so if you just
happen to tune in, you would never know. And he's
sitting there going I did this, and he's he's reading
they the person is putting passages from his book and
making it look like he's narrating to the audience in
an AI voice.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
I saw something that kind of really tripped me out.
There was this really beloved Apple, like they would focus
on Apple News, right, and they were like an organization.
I don't know if it was a newsletter or like
a whole organization, and they announced that there they got discontinued,
and they announced that they were coming back, but all
of it was AI, a whole organization, like the people
like love this brand.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, now is.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Made into AI, which I thought that was, like, how
do you like that's like betraying your trust in the media.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I don't know, because at a certain point when it's
like altering the real thing, that's when it gets tricky
to slippery.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
And people were so excited that it was going to
come back and yeah, it's not the real thing, right.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, I still have questions about this deal. I still
think I think Google is getting by easy on this
one because I think they think it's I see it
as a big payoff because now they don't have to
pay organizations for their content. And I'm a little suspicious
about it until I see it. But there's been no plan,
and the fact that it was sort of done in
(11:26):
the cloak of darkness, and even Governor KNWS loved the
deal and signed off on it. I'd like to know
what the governor's getting because there's probably a kickback of
not only say kickback, but I'm sure there's a benefit somewhere.
And the fact that it was done without a consultation
for many legitimate media organizations, even as Society Professional Journalists,
Radio Tables and News Association. You know, all of those
(11:50):
groups were not consulted, and I think it's a little
suspicious to me, but that's where I'm at. Anything else, Okay, Well,
that does it. Thanks a lot, they see on the
next one.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Appreciate it.
Well, we just wrapped up our radio show recording our
incredible episode and now we're going to be doing Studio
six forty plus and three topics were submitted before the
show started, and we selected the one that Google partnership
with California to support journalism industry. Whose idea was that
that was fine? Nico Okay, So why is that an
(00:21):
important one to talk about it?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Well, I mean, of course I thought it was very
relevant to to our show and what we talk about here.
But so this just came out, you know, a.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Day or two ago.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So Google apparently is agreeing to shell out two hundred
and fifty million dollars to support the journal in the industry.
But you know, people have got some mixed opinions about it.
So you know, it's a rare partnership with California to
support journalism across the state and also help in the
experimentation with AI within the industry. And you know, the
(00:50):
deal came on as as lawmakers they were pushing the
big tech companies to compensate news organizations, right because you know,
as advertisers and readers are transition from print to social media.
So and you know, because there were reports of the
industry losing a lot of its reporters and papers closing downs.
That's been a big issue, and so the money is
(01:11):
aimed to be funneled into sustainability initiatives of the outlets
and hopefully ensure their survival of the newsrooms. So that's
kind of the gist of what's going on here.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So who gets to decide where the money is spent
and how much goes to those organizations or individuals?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Hmmm, good questions, Steve.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah, because I I you know, here's the thing that
that was born from the fact that Google did not
want to pay out. They don't want to pay for content.
That's what that was born from. So they came up
with this thing. And there are critics out there that
say that the reason that this is a not a
very good idea is that journalists were not consulted, okay
for this program. I mean, I think on the surface
(01:49):
it sounds like a great idea. Anything anything that that
that pumps money into the sustainability of local journalism I support.
But there was no infrastructure as to how it was
going to be disseminated or distributed rather, and how it
was going to be you know, who gets to determine
it and who gets to be the arbiter of which
journalists outlets benefit?
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Right?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
I'm also curious, like how is Google benefiting? Like, are
like where's the two hundred and fifty million going to
be spread out to? Like like what if they spread
out to specific news organizations and then like they kind
of want something to return, like maybe like I know
open AI has been talking to like the Atlantic and
the Verge for you know, or box media right to
(02:32):
get rights to train their data off of their work.
So I'm like, is Google Like what is Google's like
what do they get out of it?
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Yeah? I mean I think there were some projects that
were focused on AI to be able to use that right,
and then they would give you know, some of the
ad revenue when material from the news outlets would get
used with the AI tools. It seemed like that's what
some of the projects were focused on.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
So some of like Google gets a basically a lab
experiment and they don't have to pay for content, right,
so they they win twice?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah exactly, yeah, ran and yeah, what do you think
it's confusing? So they give the childred and fifty million
dollars to these journalism organizations and in return, these these
outlets have to use A to use AI.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No AI. I think AI testing is one component of
bigger projects. So they want to invest some of that
two hundred fifty million into AI research and how it
might work with journalism.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, because the main thing they want to try and
strengthen like local media outlets and things like that, so
that have been suffering.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, by the surface, it sounds like, you know, they're
trying to be progressive because it looks like AI is inevitable.
It's gonna come and it's going to be part of.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Our Are you ready for AI to take your job?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I am not.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
No.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I wake up and when I think about it, I'm like,
oh my gosh, Like sometimes I did what am I
getting myself into? Because you know, AIS sound scary. You
could use it and you can make it seem like
it's either yours a plagiarize or you could.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Just well that's already happening. Yeah, but it's gonna be
a long time since before or there's gonna be a
long time before AI takes over what we do. It's
gonna be it's a.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Long way time.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, I think AI right now. You know, there's no
way it can it can compare to like human emotions
and reactions and things like that. I don't know if
it'll and I.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Don't know that AI was going to be designed to
be the replacement, because if that's the thing that I
was always confused about. And Jacob and I had gone
to the National Association of Broadcasters in February and Las Vegas,
and our primary mission was to find out how AI
was going to be used in news, and there was
this subject matter expert there. She's major corporations hire her
(04:51):
to come in and she tells them how AI might
be able to work for their company and how they
might be able to integrate AI. And I wanted her
to tell me how will AI be used in journalism?
And she said, we're way, way, way beyond that because
or we we're far away from it because AI has
(05:12):
to pull from something. And you were talking about Eric,
you know that they wanted to enter into agreements to
pull from Fox News resources and other outlet resources. So
if Fox News was reporting Box Media, Vox, I'm sorry,
Vox not Fox.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Okay, sorry, Fox is working something too.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Oh yeah, oh they all are, but Vox Media, so
Box Media or any of the other outlets. So let's
say AI is pulling from that. So if they say, uh,
so jat Chatt, GPT or Google's Gemini, uh tell me
what happened at the JFK shooting. So all you're going
to get is what vox has reported. So it's only
(05:51):
it's only one dimensional based on the type of information
data available right right, So if you were to use
AI now and go to Google Gemini or to Chat,
GPT or AI of your choice and ask for the shooting,
it's going to be all over the map because how
many different versions of the shooting of JFK are there
(06:12):
out there in the ethernet right right, So when you
talk about sure, I mean look it up if you
want to. It's just a good She used that as
an example because there's a lot of his historical data
that is still being argued about. You know, when you
talk about slavery or when you talk about other very
controversial issues, if you are going to rely on Chat,
GPT or Google's Gemini to tell you that story, to
(06:35):
write you a story about that, it's going to be
a very bizarre story and it could be very lopsided
because it's going to be pulling from data that's not
all accurate. That makes sense, right, Yeah? Yeah, So again,
what's Google getting out all this?
Speaker 4 (06:49):
It seems like, okay, Open AI and Google when they
make these deals, I feel like they're kind of taking
advantage of where the journalism industry is that right now,
I don't know. I mean, I just think like the
New York Times is fighting it because they have not
signed the open Ai ideal, but other companies have, and
it just feels like it's like an inevitable thing, like
(07:11):
we just had to like succumb to like.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Being Yeah, and that was one of the things, you know,
some people who weren't exactly you know, ecstatic about this
this new partnership was that they felt partnering with one
of these businesses that could literally destroy journalism jobs and
journalism right, And so that was a big criticism from this.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
But I think Nico, to your point, there's no emotion
in AI, right unless you tell AI to be emotional, Yeah,
to tell right.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
Mimic this person's voice, this.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Style because they don't have their own person.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yeah, but isn't isn't part of artificial intelligence being Also
part of that is learned response, So isn't it supposed
to be smart and learn these things and eventually develop
its own version in its own approach. Is that sort
of the whole idea, that it's starting to learn and
learn and learn and learn. Eventually it'll start to do
its own decision making. Isn't that sort of the idea?
Speaker 4 (08:10):
Yeah? And I saw the CHATCHYBT four, like the voice one,
the voice speaker will pause like a natural person would,
will say or laugh, you know, and I just feel like, Okay, well,
if they can mimic personality in voice, they can definitely
do it in writing. So like when people say like
(08:31):
we still got that human connection, I feel like AI
could mimic that, but the reader really cares. I think
readers care if it was written by AI or not.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Sure, but I do feel like, you know, if they
were trying to be sound like an actual person, I
think a lot of people would still be able to
tell the difference it was a real person or talking
to someone even right, and you're talking about voice, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
There's been some stuff I've seen online media that I'm like,
what you know, and then some outlets are compelled to
put disclaimers on there. Yeah, there was a documentary on
the Lou Pearlman. You guys remember you guys who know
who that is? He was the one that started the
Backstreet Boys. I don't know, is it Backstreet Boys.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Or was he like a Simon Cow of the nineties.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
No, well, yeah, kind of, but he's the one that he's.
He was the one that started the boy band craze
because he was it Backstreet Boys. Yeah, I think it
was Backstreet Boys. It was both it helped me or
say it Backstreet Boys. Those are the two that he's
And then the reason the reason I'm bringing up is
because in the documentary on Netflix, because this guy was
(09:41):
kind of a genius, but he was also kind of
ripping him off at the same time behind the scenes,
and that's kind of what the documentary was talking about.
But they were using a video of him and putting
an AI voice based on his past interviews. They synthesized
his voice to make him look like he was doing
it because he's dead and they're making it look like
he sat down to do an interview for this documentary.
(10:05):
And then they just at the very first first few
seconds they goo, this is an AI generated voice, and
then it fades away and then so if you just
happen to tune in, you would never know. And he's
sitting there going I did this, and he's he's reading
they the person is putting passages from his book and
making it look like he's narrating to the audience in
an AI voice.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
I saw something that kind of really tripped me out.
There was this really beloved Apple, like they would focus
on Apple News, right, and they were like an organization.
I don't know if it was a newsletter or like
a whole organization, and they announced that there they got discontinued,
and they announced that they were coming back, but all
of it was AI, a whole organization, like the people
like love this brand.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, now is.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
Made into AI, which I thought that was, like, how
do you like that's like betraying your trust in the media.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
I don't know, because at a certain point when it's
like altering the real thing, that's when it gets tricky
to slippery.
Speaker 4 (11:02):
And people were so excited that it was going to
come back and yeah, it's not the real thing, right.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Well, I still have questions about this deal. I still
think I think Google is getting by easy on this
one because I think they think it's I see it
as a big payoff because now they don't have to
pay organizations for their content. And I'm a little suspicious
about it until I see it. But there's been no plan,
and the fact that it was sort of done in
(11:26):
the cloak of darkness, and even Governor KNWS loved the
deal and signed off on it. I'd like to know
what the governor's getting because there's probably a kickback of
not only say kickback, but I'm sure there's a benefit somewhere.
And the fact that it was done without a consultation
for many legitimate media organizations, even as Society Professional Journalists,
Radio Tables and News Association. You know, all of those
(11:50):
groups were not consulted, and I think it's a little
suspicious to me, but that's where I'm at. Anything else, Okay, Well,
that does it. Thanks a lot, they see on the
next one.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Appreciate it.
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