Polyamory, New Age, and Coming Home: Mark Brown’s Unconventional Path to Christ

In this eye-opening and deeply honest episode of "Stuff God Never Said," host Audrey Cauthen sits down with her friend Mark Brown—author of the beloved children’s book series Zen Pig—for a raw and encouraging conversation about wandering, searching, and ultimately finding faith.
Mark’s unique journey takes us from a strict Southern Baptist childhood through teenage rebellion, atheism, and years deeply immersed in Buddhism, New Age spirituality, and even a polyamorous marriage. As Mark bravely shares about his struggles with anger, loss, and disillusionment with the Church, he drops the pretense and invites us to witness the scenic route—one filled with detours, heartbreak, and surprising moments of grace.

🎙️ What to Expect in This Episode:

• Mark’s transition from “foaming-mouthed atheist” to a practicing Christian
• The critical moments that reshaped his understanding of science, wonder, and the metaphysical
• A vulnerable look at alternative relationships and the realities of a polyamorous marriage
• The deceptive appeal of New Age beliefs, and the life-altering realization that brought him back to Christ
• Why meditation, mindfulness, and self-discipline aren’t at odds with the Christian faith
• Honest talk about church hurt, religious culture, and rethinking what faith should look like
• The power of keeping faith simple and always coming back to “call your Dad”

Whether you’ve questioned faith, felt burned by religion, explored other philosophies, or simply long for real talk about what faith actually looks like, Mark’s story will both challenge and encourage you. Audrey and Mark don’t shy away from the harder questions—about sin, identity, marriage, healing, and the lies we often believe about God—but finish with hope and a clear invitation to step into honesty and relationship with Jesus.

You’re not alone if your road to faith hasn’t been a straight line. This inspiring episode will help you see that redemption is possible for everyone, no matter how far you’ve wandered.

🔗 Connect with Today’s Guest:

• Get your free copy of Zen Pig: https://freezenpig.com
• Follow Mark and Zen Pig on Instagram: https://instagram.com/zenpigbook
• 📧 Have questions for the show or want to connect? Email us at: [e-mail]

🌐 Learn more, catch all the episodes, and find additional resources: www.stuffgodneversaid.com

If this episode resonated with you, please hit LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and SHARE it with a friend. Someone you know needs Mark’s story of hope, reality, and the God who always welcomes us home.
Timestamps, show notes, and resource links will be updated here—check back for more!
#FaithJourney #Testimony #NewAgeToJesus #Polyamory #Deconstruction #SpiritualJourney #ZenPig #ChristianPodcast #StuffGodNeverSaid #MarkBrown #AudreyCauthen

TIMESTAMPS: 
00:00 "Siren Song of Secular World"
05:21 "Relationship with Christ Explanation"
14:09 Struggling for Spiritual Connection
16:00 Embracing Multifaith and Meditation
24:38 Refining Through Emptiness
27:45 "Game Nights and Brick Walls"
35:50 Questioning Beliefs Spiral
38:48 Navigating Faith and New Age Beliefs
44:03 Faith Meets Evidence
49:27 "Sinner's Perspective Shift"
57:42 Worship Creator, Not Creation
01:00:01 Faith in Divine Guidance

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/stuff-god-never-said--6381256/support.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
When did you get married?

(00:01):
2009.
But there was no spiritual life.
She was an atheist and still is to this day.
She was.
What was that like?
Logical.
So we were polyamorous, but we're still married.
Two each other.
So I have girlfriends.
She has boyfriends.
And that was, I'm going to be honest with you.
I mean, it was great until it wasn't.
Y'all thanks for coming back to season two.

(00:21):
Stuff God never said today with me is my buddy author of Children's Book Series Zen Pig.
Mr. Mark Brown.
He has an incredible story to tell and the most encouraging testimony.
And I can't wait for you guys to hear it from him, Mark Brown.
Thank you, Audrey.
Thank you for being here.

(00:41):
I'd like to say it always takes boldness to come in church.
It does.
It does take boldness.
A lot of it.
So it's a rigorous boldness.
Yeah.
So thanks for having that.
So let's just dive in.
Like tell me tell me a little bit how you grew up in the church, not in the church.
Just have you heard of Southern Baptist?
A little bit.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
That's where I started.

(01:01):
Yeah, group Southern Baptist left when I was like 15, 16 then became pregnant balls, foaming
mouth atheist.
I do like that you when you describe yourself of all the things that you've walked through
and lived.
That's like I feel like that's a lot of times how you identify your old self.

(01:23):
Foaming mouth atheists.
Yes.
Yes.
Because they're angry.
You know, you feel like you're betrayed by the church.
You grew up in this thing, whatever.
And you know, society tells you like, that's not true.
That's a fairy tale that was Santa Claus and Easter Bunny.
So you become really mad and all that.
So foaming mouth atheist.
That wasn't a great phase.

(01:43):
And then moved into I feel like I'm going to jump ahead if I do this.
You can pause me.
But we can we can go back.
We can go.
Yeah, just just full of sound, bro.
Yeah.
So, but then when I was 24, my brother died on a motorcycle accident and he was 21.
And that kind of a wait a second.
There might be some more here.

(02:04):
You know what I mean?
And that led me into like a naturalist car.
Do you know what Carl's taking us or was?
Okay.
Neil Grass Tyson.
Sound care.
No.
Sorry.
Yeah, I got into the science thing, but the wonder of nature.
So that led me to Buddhism, New Age, Christian.

(02:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, tell me about it.
What a path.
That's just what we call the scenic route.
That's beautiful book title.
The scene.
I love it.
I love that your brain goes there.
Just absolutely.
Yes.
Yeah.
So good.
Okay.
So what was it like in what was your family like?
What were the dynamics growing up?
Were you like, avid churchgoers Sunday, Wednesday, Friday?

(02:48):
Yes.
Yes.
My mom was a Sunday school teacher.
Oh.
Yeah.
So I was in the church.
Yeah.
And it was fine.
No, like no problems.
Went to vacation, Bible school, all that stuff.
And it was just like a normal Southern Baptist kid, you know, like whatever.
But family life wasn't great.
My mom, single mom, all that.

(03:10):
So, you know, yeah, that's tough.
Yeah.
For sure.
It's a single mom.
It was church all the time.
And then you said you walked away when you were 15.
Was something that led to that?
Probably just the secular world.
I mean, the secular world will like siren song.
You like, you're a nerd.
Dude, you going over there with your tucked-in shirt and all that?

(03:31):
Like look over here.
We got some corn and limp biscuit and you know, you know, so it was just a normal adolescent
situation.
Yeah.
And call me over to the secular world.
Yeah.
It can be fun.
Yeah.
But also for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, like if there was no temptation and sin, if there was no fun and sin, then that wouldn't

(03:52):
be tempting.
You know, so that makes sense.
So you walked away when you were 15 and you were just angry and living your best.
Totally.
Like all are so stupid.
Like all are so stupid.
Angry.
You know what I mean?
But I'm grateful for that pivot because it did take me like, as you said on the scene
and grow out.
And I think that it's, I've definitely gleaned some things from that scenic route that

(04:17):
I wouldn't have had at a state.
Yeah.
Adept.
Yes.
Yeah.
And I don't think that everybody has to take a scenic route.
They meant no.
No.
And they shouldn't.
Not everybody should.
Yeah.
Because some people will not come back.
Just, you know, some people, you shouldn't drink alcohol.
Some people should not.
Yeah.

(04:37):
Because they're going to go too far.
Yeah.
And there's no coming back.
That's a good thing.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.

(05:12):
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.

(05:33):
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.

(05:55):
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
And there's a lot of things that we can do.
He stole wives.
He got in all kinds of trouble for lying and manipulating
and had to run away from his own kingdom.
His life was a mess.

(06:17):
And God was like, that's my kid.
That's my dude.
That's my dude.
That's my dude.
Does God say, hey, all these things are the right things?
No.
But He said, that's my kid.
And He continues to come back to me and seek my heart
and ask me for forgiveness.
And at the end of the day, I'm like, if David is like,
top-tier human, we can all do it.

(06:38):
We can all do it.
We can all do it.
We can all give Jesus our lives and be like, just make me,
just make me more like you.
I'm not, I'm not crushing it.
That's right.
At any point in my life in my crushing.
You know, like, just call your dad.
And I'm like, we need to just tell our kids that all the time.
Keep it simple.
Yeah, keep it simple.
It's so simple.

(06:59):
It's so simple.
It's so simple.
I want to mention triple-ents.
I don't remember it was Africa.
And the gospel there, literally the pastor, the,
of this like super amazing Jesus spirit-filled church
was just like, his whole message was, if it's not simple,
it's not the gospel.

(07:20):
If it's attached with a bunch of rules and a bunch of, you know,
stipulations, like, that's not the gospel.
Keep it simple.
If it's not simple, it's not the gospel.
I love it.
Call your dad.
Yes.
Call your dad when you mess up.
That's the gospel.
I love it.
Yeah.
Amen.
So go on back to your story.
So foaming mouth atheists.
Yes.
Did you just start that way like at 15 where you like, oh, I'm in the church.

(07:43):
Now I hate the church.
Yeah, for sure.
Because that was like Marilyn Manson time.
Mm.
You know what I'm saying?
Like that was like Marilyn Manson and Corn, Lombisket, like secular world is the right way.
Everybody's stupid.
That believes in God.
Even in high school, I even gave a presentation about how God is in real.
Yeah, I did.
Now let's give one how he is real.
He's so real, y'all.

(08:04):
He's so real.
But yeah, so that, you know, just part of my journey, but it sucked.
Yeah.
Yeah, it wasn't great.
So you got through high school.
How did just like out of curiosity, how did your mom take it?
She didn't love it.
I mean, I'm just saying this.
Southern Baptist, boomer mom didn't love it and rightfully so like now that I have kids,

(08:28):
totally get it.
Yeah.
Like, good God.
No way.
Yeah.
You should have beat me probably.
She probably should have beat me a little bit, but she didn't.
But yes, she wasn't happy with it.
One happy.
Well, did it like affect your relationship at all?
No.
Single mom, you know, like she's going to love her baby.
Oh, okay.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.

(08:48):
I love that.
Yeah.
That's like real love.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So high school, Marilyn Manson.
Yeah, all that stuff.
Yeah.
Not calling your dad.
Definitely not calling my dad.
Not calling my dad.
Yeah.
But then like I said, my brother died.
Science, all that whole thing like where we're just merely matter.
But it look how cool it is.

(09:10):
You know, the cosmos are so big and look at all these stars and planets and Nebula and, you
know, there is wondering grandeur in that.
There really is.
And now actually fertilized the soil for my spiritual journey.
Because before like when I was atheist, I didn't even like it was just like, okay.

(09:30):
Like a bird singing who cares.
Like that's a tree who cares, whatever.
But like the one thing that science did do was like, oh wait, like there's a lot of things
that happen, have to happen for us to have this experience that we're having.
Yeah.
And so that did like open up and unlock something.

(09:51):
Yeah.
Unintentional from science, but some sort of like, oh wow.
Yeah.
The belief that you either believe in science or you believe in God.
Yeah.
Like, you know, homie, where did science come from?
For real, for real, for real.
Like where did it get like why?
The more I learn about science, the more I learn about like the meticulousness of creation,

(10:13):
there has to be a creator.
It just gets a little swaps sometimes in honoring the creation more than the creator.
But if you just like take a step back, which it sounds like you did, you're like, wait,
this stuff is really, really beautiful and amazing.
And that segues into Buddhism, mindfulness, gratitude.

(10:36):
So that's how I slipped into that vein.
Because with those things, you really do your mind almost explodes with how beautiful
and incredible creation is.
Do you know what I mean?
So it's just so cool how you just slip into these like slopes and veins of spiritual, but

(10:59):
ultimately you either land on Christ or you're cooked.
Yeah.
You're cooked.
Yeah.
I read this really precious theology.
I think I said this at a home church, yeah.
Where it's like my favorite creation theology of all time because it's simple and it's

(11:20):
sweet.
It's an author whose name I can't remember and something.
It's just basically like, why did God create us?
Father, Son, Holy Spirit, living together, perfect unity in everything.
They can do anything that they want.
He wants and he created us like, why would he create us?

(11:41):
Because he thought we'd like it.
I love that.
Is that not like the most precious?
And of course we like it.
It's incredible.
It's just that again, like that missing the mark of like honoring the creation more than
the creator.
Like why is this stuff so amazing?
Because he loves us that much.
He wants us to open our window and experience awe and wonder.

(12:04):
And that's just a small part of his gift to us.
So cool.
Okay.
So tell me about Buddhism.
Yeah.
Because I don't, I'm going to be honest.
I don't know a whole lot about it except for like Buddha and like face.
Right.
Yeah.
For sure.
Karma is that Buddhism?
Karma is in there.
Okay.
Yeah.
For sure.

(12:24):
One thing I will say about Buddhism because Western people have a very common misconception
that there's no dogma in Buddhism.
Like a lot of people leave the church and like, I'm just going to go to this like mystical
thing and like, you know, there's no dogma in Buddhism.
That is so wrong.
It's unbelievably wrong.
There's so much dogma in Buddhism.
But there's a lot of very important in my opinion, mental discipline and Buddhism that I feel

(12:50):
like is so important for our relationship with God and Christ.
I think there's a severe deficit in learning how to discipline our mind so that we can hear
God and hear the spirit.
And I think like we were talking about, that's pretty dangerous to go over there and see

(13:11):
if you can get the treasures without getting consumed by the dragon or whatever, right?
But like, I think it's important.
Yeah.
I think those disciplines are important.
Yeah.
And I totally can see how where you, we are such an instant gratification culture.
Distraction.
Distraction, entertainment.

(13:32):
Like, I want to go to church.
I want to feel the spirit on the worship music.
Yeah.
That's my worship for the week.
And then I want to like be empowered by the message and then like go do my thing.
That's not right.
Why Jesus died for sure and rose for us.
That's not it.

(13:52):
That's not it.
That's not it.
Could that be part of it?
Absolutely.
Of course.
Great.
Go do that.
Yeah.
But I think you're right.
Like, I know I have to like work and you might be surprised by this.
I'm very ADD.
I'm super distracted.
I love that.
I love that.
Yes.
But I have to work so hard.

(14:13):
And when I'm like up at, you know, 430 in the morning, trying to read my Bible with all
my dyslexia and all, reading the same sentence over and over, I want to get frustrated.
And I'm like, I know that Jesus sees me as his precious child just trying to be closer
to him right now.
Like, I don't have to read seven chapters of the Bible to be like, okay, I did it.

(14:34):
Like, that's a list.
Right.
That's a box to check.
Right.
For sure.
No, like he knows that I am longing to be with him.
And there is no like, reach your Bible, start to finish in this amount of time.
Yeah.
St. Nicholas.
It's not a checklist.
No, he loves it.
I've read Genesis 16 times because I'm so confused.

(14:54):
Right.
For sure.
For sure.
Yeah.
You're posturing your heart and he's at 100%.
Yes.
But I do want to say something because this is really important.
And this is one of the deceivers.
Beautiful narratives.
This is a beautiful narrative and it works.
So many people don't meditate and don't sit and don't have a sacred space because they
believe the narrative.

(15:16):
And I'm not saying this is you, but I'm saying a lot of people.
They believe that they just can't focus.
There's something different about them specifically.
My mind moves too fast.
I have too many thoughts.
I'm just, that's just not for me.
That is the same thing as going to the gym and lifting a weight and experiencing a little

(15:37):
bit of resistance.
I mean, like, oh, yeah, I wasn't built for that in no way.
You know what I'm saying?
I think that's good.
Yeah.
No, no, no, no, no, that's a muscle and that's resistance and you have to work through
that.
And you're going to get stronger, more robust in that practice because it's a practice.
Not a, oh, I'm going to go sit on the cushion and then bam.

(15:58):
I'm good.
I didn't like that.
Yeah.
I appreciate that about you.
And what else I appreciate is when Cody and I were talking to you and like you have this
whole rich background of like multi religions and like multi, he's like, you didn't just grow
up in the church in the South and like, stay in it and then leave it and like, whatever.

(16:23):
You're like, no, dude, like you're able to talk about meditation.
And when we're like, describe meditation to us because literally that's just not a word
that is necessarily used in the church growing up.
And the assumption is, oh, what demon are you worshiping in your meditation?
I heard that from my mom.

(16:44):
Trust me.
Trust me.
I heard it from my mom too.
And it's just like, it's just a word to describe what you're doing with the Holy Spirit.
Absolutely.
And just like sitting there and I remember you being like, oh, you grew up in the church.
I'm like, yeah, I did.
I'm judging you.
I'm asking clarification question because I genuinely want to know and I want you to
describe it to me.
Yes.
Yes.
I'm so sorry that I can probably feel that I'm like, I just want to don't apologize.

(17:08):
Okay.
This is how I, because I'm in a men's group, obviously in a church and all that.
And it's been great.
Good guys, whatever.
But the analogy I give them is like, if you had an aquarium, just a small fish tank in
your room and there was this beautiful radiant light behind it.
And every day you just poured in sediment, dirt, coffee grounds.

(17:32):
How much light is going to get through that aquarium to the other side?
Not very much.
Meditation is stopping pouring things into that water so that it can settle and that brilliance
of Christ can shine through you.
Do you see what I'm saying?
So it's like, it's not some weird mystical levitation blah, blah, blah.

(17:55):
It's training your mind so that you can access the brilliance of Christ and let it flow
through you.
It's literally just a way.
It sounds like you're just saying this is a word to describe me spending time with Jesus,
just spending time with the Holy Spirit.
And intentionally not nurturing narratives in my mind.

(18:17):
I mean, that sounds just...
It's a powerhouse skill that everybody should have if they want to have a deep
connection with Christ.
And the demonization of the word meditation should be faced and rejected because it's

(18:37):
important, it's imperative.
The word imperative.
Intentionally used imperative.
I like it.
I like your fire about it.
That's the Holy Spirit.
That any more ground from Trust me.
And it's a...
Yeah.
No, that's so good.
That's so good.
Let's go back to your story.
So Buddhism came after your brother passed?

(19:00):
Yes.
He did.
Okay.
And were you kind of like searching for like afterlife answer?
Totally.
Absolutely.
For sure.
We can't just be atoms and molecules.
We can't be bad.
Yeah.
Like whatever.
Buddhism kind of touches into that.
But it doesn't give you what new age gives you.
Which is, you know, that is an endless loop of answers.

(19:27):
Quotation mark answers.
So that's, you know, Buddhism led into new age.
Okay.
So one, I want to know what, like what was the path from Buddhism to to...
Sure.
Let's just start with that.
What was the path?
Like how did you go?
Was it all the rules of Buddhism that you're like, this is just a different Southern Baptist?
Yeah, basically.

(19:47):
It really is.
There's a temptation.
There's something seductive about new age.
Very seductive.
It's new.
It's novel.
It's...
It makes you powerful.
That's scary.
Yeah.
It gives you new tools and toys to play with.

(20:08):
So there's a lot of seduction with it.
And you know, I totally got into it.
And it was cool until Christ was like, yeah, you think that's cool?
Yeah, it would take everything real quick.
And then...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Here I am.
He does that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank God.
Out of protersion.

(20:29):
Hey, thank God.
Thank God.
Yeah.
Here for sure.
Okay.
Can we dig into your season of life in new age and were you married at this time?
I was more into Buddhism when I was married.
Okay.
Do you want to talk about marriage?
Yeah.
Sure.
I'm good.
Great.
I am a marriage expert, actually.
I did you know that?
I do.
Yeah, put that on the intro.

(20:50):
I'm a marriage expert.
Relationship expert.
Great.
Okay.
You can tell us all the things not to do.
I mean, what?
That is just...
Oh, right.
Oh, God, you're right.
Okay.
Sorry.
Okay.
So, when did you get married?
2009.
In 2009.
Yeah.
Okay.
And you were in Buddhism.
I was.

(21:10):
I was starting to get into it.
I was starting to get into it.
Okay.
So, like, she was an atheist and still is to this day.
No, like, I'm not judging or whatever.
I'm just saying.
She was.
I was.
So, fuming mouth atheists.
Yeah.
Got married.
What was that like?
Logical.
Just very...
I mean, everything's very logical and like, you know, there's no woo-woo, feely, whatever.

(21:34):
It's like clockwork.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
That you were making such a change.
Spread sheet work.
Spread sheet.
Yeah.
Touch on your alternative lifestyle.
You're alternative lifestyle.
That's a beautiful way to throw that in there.
Yes.
Tell us about your alternative lifestyle.
Marriage and how that turns out.

(21:55):
How well it went for you.
Who wants to guess?
We should make a poll.
Can you make a poll on the.
Yes.
Oh, no.
Yes.
Is Mark still married?
No.
Yeah.
So, we were polyamorous, which please, if you don't know, that is different than...
Polygamy, which is multiple wives.

(22:15):
Okay.
Polyamorous is, you can have as many partners as you want.
No problem.
But you're married.
But we're still married, right?
To each other.
So I have girlfriend.
She has boyfriend's.
But we're still married.
And that was...
I'm gonna be honest with you.
I mean, it was great until it wasn't.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, Alson.

(22:36):
Absolutely.
It's great.
Yeah.
So, like, here's the...
I'm gonna be forthcoming with like, what's seductive about it.
No partner delivers 100% of everything that you want because your wants change as well.
Right?
So, like, having this like wheel of people that can like, oh, I'm kind of missing like 20%
on this and then like this.

(22:56):
Like, that's pretty cool.
Yeah.
Because there's no drama at home about it because they know.
Yeah.
So, that's the cool part about it.
Mm-hmm.
Bad part about it is we're humans.
They're feelings.
There's emotions.
There's complexities of relationships.
And so oftentimes that doesn't work out.

(23:16):
Yeah.
Shocker.
That is shocking.
That I think I think at the root of us as humans.
Like, we are selfish people.
We are selfish people.
We know what we want.
We know what we need.
And the easy thing would be to just have our needs met.

(23:38):
Oh, you can't meet my needs.
Yeah, for sure.
So easy.
Yes.
Or that person will.
Like when we live our life around our needs being met and making sure they're met, there's
no room left for Christ.
There's no room left for redemption.
There's no, when there's no room for a need or a desire that's left unmet, which is
I think is why the Bible talks so much about it is hard for wealthy, rich people to really

(24:04):
know me because they don't.
That's a great example of someone who like doesn't need anything.
I see.
You know what I mean?
But when we have a need, when we have, have a void, it leaves room for Jesus.
It leaves room for redemption.
And his, his design for marriage is good.
If we believe that that God is good and what he says is true, then the things he made, just

(24:28):
like the, the earth and the trees and the molecules and the atoms, if those things are good, then
his design for marriage is good.
Does that mean it's fun?
Not, dude.
A lot of times it's really not fun.
It's hard, but it refines us and it teaches us to die to ourselves to look more like him.

(24:49):
And how can we look, look more like him if we never have a void?
If we don't think we have a void rather because we have the void, you're just letting
someone else fill something that's fleeing, fill it instead of, instead of like sitting
with it and meditating with it and giving it to God, you know, all those things.

(25:10):
Okay.
So sorry.
No.
Back to you.
No, I'm loving it.
Keep going.
I, yeah, it's just fascinating because I feel like it's not something people will talk about
or that, or if it's talked about like the whole like, you know, like the neighborhood in
Franklin that's like, I don't know if it's true, but it's like that.
Oh, do you have some juice?

(25:31):
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.

(25:52):
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
No.
No.
I don't know.
So here's some common symbols, right?
I don't know.
So the pineapple thing in case you don't know is the rumor is that a house that has pineapples
displayed is like open to like swinging or poly or whatever.

(26:16):
And I don't know if that's as accurate as they want to make a sound.
But like if somebody has an upside down pineapple, anywhere displayed, that is 4,000 percent.
They're down to clown.
They're down to clown.
100 percent.
So that's a true that's a true thing.
So when you're at public's next time, if you see somebody with a pineapple, I'm so dumb.

(26:37):
Yeah.
I don't know.
Where's my whole thing?
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
So more symbols.
Just real quick.
Yeah.
So, so, so like just like the pineapple thing in the house, like you can't guarantee it, but
like that's a pretty common one.
So upside down pineapple, anklits.

(26:57):
Anklits.
There's the only two that I've really.
But is there like something special about the anklit or like what like I literally wore
an anklit last summer?
Oh, was I like, cause people to stumble?
Amorous.
Oh my god.
This is right here.
Oh no.
My daughter made me a thing and it was too big for my wrist.
Were you wearing an anklit and you had a pineapple and you're like just driving that

(27:19):
thing?
Not the pineapple thing, but the ankle thing.
Oh dear.
But nobody would know that unless they were in the lifestyle.
Okay.
So like, hopefully I give off that like, stay away.
Say it again.
I'm repulsed by y'all.
I am the y'all are gross.
Okay.
Okay.
Sorry.
Back to your story.

(27:39):
So, so how did that marriage look?
You had like, you had girlfriends.
She had boyfriends, but everything was great at home.
Totally.
And like we'd all hang out together.
It wasn't like a issue.
Like we'd have game nights and like, like we'd go to sounds games and like all the stuff.
Like it was, it was really awesome until it wasn't for real.
And like that's not me saying like go do it.

(28:00):
I'm saying there's a brick wall.
Yeah.
Like, you know, when you're going to 30 in your Lamborghini, it's cool until you hit the wall.
Yeah.
So I mean, for real, I think that's true of most.
Yeah.
Amen.
Thank you.
You know, yeah.
Sin, which is why God like words us against it is like, hey, it seems fun.
Yeah.

(28:21):
Yeah.
And then that marriage was she did her last boyfriend.
She fell madly in love with him.
Like true deep, you know, in love wanted to have his babies.
And they then and they got together and did that.
And, you know, so that's how it ended.
And that's.
So is that the rule that you weren't allowed to fall in love?

(28:41):
Are you going to fall in love?
No, you can fall in love, but like the rule was just you can't start another family.
You know, I mean like we're the trunk of the tree.
And we'll have these like branches that extend out, but like the trunk is where the roots
are.
It's how we're going to build all those things.
Okay.
So, but that is me not that is not me blaming her.

(29:03):
Yeah.
Like that is such a normal human thing.
Oh, you fell in love with somebody you're sleeping with and like having fun with shocker.
Yeah.
Like that's going to happen.
So not blaming her.
That all.
Yeah.
So then you guys split, but you had a son.
Oh, yes.
Yes.
Fresh is angel.
Yes.
He's awesome.
He's awesome.

(29:23):
Yeah.
My son noble.
Such a gift to the world.
He's a gift to me for sure.
And if there's any questions, he looks exactly like you.
He does.
So that's that's pretty cool.
That's good.
He's a good guy.
He's a good guy.
I like that guy.
He's he's my daughter, Josie, my youngest.
Almost every day.

(29:43):
Wait, except what's like what's Noble doing today?
And when's he going to come over?
He's a good chill.
Yeah.
He's cool.
Sweet boy.
All right.
So you guys got divorced.
Yep.
When was that?
2017.
Okay.
Yeah.
So that worked for a while.
Worked for a while.
It worked for a while.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(30:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah.
All right.
So what came after divorce for you?
I consider that like my black hole time, a lot of drinking, partying, just grip it,
let's go.
But came out of that into the new age and.
So new age came after marriage.

(30:26):
It was like, it means like a gradient.
Okay.
It's like a gradient.
Like you start to fall into it.
Yeah.
That does make sense.
Yeah.
It's not a light switch.
It's like, you know, dimmer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, a dimmer.
That's a good, like metaphor analogy.
For sure.
A dimmer.
No, mine.

(30:47):
A while though, how much it seems, I don't know a whole lot about, about new age.
But it seems like they focus on light a lot.
A ton.
Yes.
For sure.
But that goes back to the, what you were saying, like the deceiver gives almost the whole truth

(31:08):
like not all the truth.
Yeah.
So like, yeah, light's true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lights right.
But you're not saying it's Christ.
You'll say it's anything but Christ.
Yeah.
I mean, you can say universe.
You can say source.
You can say divine mind.
You can say all of the, like there's a laundry list of terms, but you cannot say God or Christ.
You know what I mean?

(31:29):
So God's not okay.
God's pretty triggering to new age people.
Okay.
Yeah.
They're going to think you're kind of simpleton.
Yeah.
So I don't remember if that was an on camera conversation or not, but, but my perspective
as an outside person looking into new age and, and people I love deeply, deep in new age

(31:53):
and things.
I'm like some of this stuff, a lot of it is so close.
It is.
It is so close to the gospel.
Yes.
But like one little switch here or one little switch there or like literally quoting, I have
seen like new age people quote scripture and then like be like the divine said this.

(32:15):
And then like, oh, you're so close.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Which is kind of like the ultimate lie.
It totally is.
The almost truth is the ultimate lie.
It's really good.
And it's an even you describing it as like a dimmer.
Like of course, it's like how do people fall into quotes and you're like one little step
at a time.
Like one mostly truth leads to like a half truth leads to like a half truth leads to

(32:38):
like, but you're like so in it by the time the whole lie is there.
Yes.
That you can't see it as a lighting.
We're like, we believe the same thing.
I'm like, we've really super dope.
Don't a thousand percent.
It's like that.
It's like that I was saying of like a ship that goes off course like an inch at a time.
Like you look back and you're like, oh my God.
I'm way off course after a year.
You know what I mean?

(32:59):
Like you just don't realize it.
Yeah.
So, and I will a thousand percent because I was this person like, yeah, Buddha, Christ,
Krishna, they're all the same.
We're just saying, we're just using different words.
Not true.
Not true.
You know?
Yeah.
One of the things I try really hard to like study apologetics that are relatable because

(33:25):
I feel like the amount of things in my brain in this season of my life, like I can't take
a ton of like scientific data and like historical dates and stuff.
I do care about those things, but I'm like, I know I can't hold that right now.
I'm like, I want, I'm like looking for things that are relatable.
Like what do other religions say about God?
What does God say about other religions?
What are things that, but I saw this picture of like all these different religions.

(33:51):
Like it's, it was like a picture of like in quotes like things they have said about
Jesus Christ.
And they all point to him in one way or another, whether it's the whole truth or a little
bit of the truth or just one part of the story, they all point to him.
What does this guy have to say?
What does Jesus say about these religions?

(34:11):
Nothing.
What does Jesus say?
He says, I am the way.
Is there a false move?
I am the way.
Y'all keep, y'all keep pointing out these things that I say.
What do I say about me?
I am the way.
I am the truth.
I am the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me.
It's true.
I love it.
Oh.
I got Holy Spirit tells.
It's the same thing.
But like it's true.

(34:31):
Like they're not the same.
They're not.
They're not.
Y'all want to acknowledge Jesus.
Yes.
He's acknowledging I am Christ.
I am the Son of God.
I am the Savior, the Creator, all the things.
Like it's me, y'all.
It's me.
It's so good.
It's so good.
It's so good.
Okay.
So if there are, I feel like there's this cusp of what I see and like people I directly

(34:58):
know and like social media and stuff.
I kind of know.
I feel like it's a lot of things start with their believers.
They go to church.
They find one thing they don't like.
They don't like fully agree with or they're like, I see this part's missing for some people

(35:18):
it's hell.
Like, oh, this word means this.
I don't believe in hell.
It can start with like, well, one of the things I saw.
We love Jesus.
We know He's real.
We know He's the Son of God.
But I don't believe in hell.
And the word for she will, I get it.
It's confusing.
And like, I am not here today to clear that up.

(35:40):
Let me tell you, like, I'm not that the erroneous.
I came from answers.
I'm so mean.
Do you need to go now?
Yeah.
I'm done.
Thanks for nothing.
But he so starts with like, there's no hell.
Well, what does that lead to?
Well, if there's no hell, then what does sin matter?
If sin doesn't matter, what did the cross matter?

(36:00):
If the cross didn't matter, then was Jesus even who he said he was.
If he wasn't who he said he was, who was he?
Oh, he was a good guy.
No, maybe he was just a crazy person because he said all the stuff that didn't matter anyway.
It's just this cycle of like one thing at a time, at a time, and assumptions being made
about like, oh, here's this one thing I don't agree with.
And then like, before you know it, you're deep into like worshiping crystals and like

(36:25):
letting a card tell you what your worth is.
And I don't understand those things and I'm not even here to judge anyone for being there
right now because it's not judgment.
It is pure love and like the polyamorous marriage, like it's going to end in a brick wall

(36:47):
because it's not Jesus and it's not good.
Even if it's sort of kind of looks like it might be or like you can find scripture that
matches what your angel, what's it called?
Angel card.
Angel numbers.
Angel number.
There's a lot of things and I know that like I can't touch on all of them.
But like, but like the word of God in this like card from a deck, you pick is they're not

(37:10):
the same thing.
No, they aren't.
Not even close.
Because that's the thing.
What you're talking about is an infinite regression is what you're talking about.
And there's infinite modalities of new age.
Like there's infinite like tarot, moon water, crystals, astrology, like you could just keep
going.
And this but like one of the highest sellers on Etsy is spells, like just buying spells

(37:33):
to be cast on people.
Like, it's just an infinite amount of tools that you can.
I'm sorry, you can buy spells.
Yes.
And they sell very well on Etsy.
Yes.
Can maybe let's start.
Let's start smelling.
They're selling like a spell remover and just like send Bible down.

(37:56):
Oh my gosh, wait.
Okay, but that also reminds me.
I watched this video on this X which and she was like, I would literally do some kind of
spell and like throw a dart at like kids or like their location or something.
And she was like, I could always tell which kids were prayed over because the dart would

(38:18):
literally go and shift like at the end.
It would shift away.
And I couldn't throw the dart in the spell on that kid.
And I wonder if she like sold that stuff on Etsy or something.
Oh my gosh, she all tried for your kids.
Yeah, absolutely.
And your friends and your family.
Yeah.
And yourself and your marriage.
The secular world is way out there now.

(38:41):
Way out there now.
And I like that I know that, but I also don't like that.
I like that you know that.
I don't know because it's a tool like you know, you know like what things to protect.
Your family from even more.
So new age.
Do you like what is?
Oh, I was going to try to ask you the cusp of like if you're talking to somebody who is

(39:06):
like, the Bible is not all it's cracked up to be.
And well, what about this thing or what about that?
And like as they're like entering into the what's a good word like enlightenment.
New age.
If you see the swap happening slowly, like what is something you could say or do that would

(39:31):
that would make a difference.
Is there anything or do that?
Is it just like?
Yeah, I can be a brick wall.
Yeah, no, no, I can give you a term that excites me because I think a lot of new age people
like we kind of share the same similar spirit.
Sure.
Yeah.
Instead of looking at the Bible as this textbook as this like spreadsheet thing, this like

(39:54):
legalism document, I see the Bible as the most powerful metaphysical manual ever made.
So the word metaphysical, you put that in the culture.
People are going to freak out and oh my God.
He's talking about whatever.
That's what it is.
It's a soup.
It's it's a manual about the supernatural.

(40:16):
It's not natural.
But when you go to church, Southern Baptist, whatever and I'm not judging, I'm just saying
like there's nothing supernatural about it.
It's just rules and legalism and do this.
Don't do that.
But no, wait, why?
Because it's teaching you about the supernatural.
Christ was supernatural.
He came into the natural, but his being is supernatural.

(40:40):
Yeah.
Broke all the logical rules.
Yeah.
So like that's what you want at a new age.
So just looking at the spiritual experiences and states of mind, it doesn't get any more
supernatural than the Bible.
So just flipping the framing of the text can be a powerful way for somebody to be like,
oh, wait, it's not what I thought it was.

(41:01):
That's all that's my experience.
Yeah.
You know what I totally get it.
Like, dude, even like what we talked about this week in a Bible study, it was like the
portal of Jacob's ladder and like what that looked like and you see teleportation in the
Bible and you see like, it's the whole.
Transfiguration.
Yes.
Raising people from the dead and like, that's what you want.

(41:23):
Hey, guess what?
It's in there.
That's where it is right there.
Like that's it.
Yeah.
No, that's, that's a good, that's a really good point.
And I do, I do agree that more of that needs to be talked about.
I think, but I understand why maybe a pastor wouldn't open that up because it's so hard
to understand.
But that's not, wait, wait, wait, wait.

(41:43):
So that's that's the thing.
I get excited.
Not a bit.
Okay.
Great.
Great.
Great.
No, go for it.
So that's the thing.
That's where that's the Lynch pin first principles thing is that this, they're trying to
intellectualize this.
This is a faith modality.

(42:03):
This isn't an intellectual pursuit.
It's a faith pursuit.
Does that make sense?
Yeah.
I think it could be both.
I think if you keep going down, you get to the first principle that it will always be about
faith because we weren't there.
Yeah.
Yes, it's written, but you still have to believe that what's written is right and true.

(42:26):
So that's the first principle.
You better learn to generate faith.
Or this is just a textbook.
Yeah.
But can I push?
Yeah.
Of course.
I belong to discourse.
It does.
Something that apologetics, it exists because God does ask us to have faith.

(42:47):
We have to have faith every single day to like do you have the faith to stand up for
what I say, for who I am, for what I want for you?
If it's not comfy, if it's not fun, if it's not entertaining, if it's not distracting,
if it's not, whatever, like do you have that faith in me, even though you cannot see
my face, like my face to face.

(43:08):
And that does require faith.
A lot of faith, obviously, it's called the faith.
So yeah, cornerstone of faith is faith.
Right, right.
But I don't think that I'm trying to think.

(43:28):
I'm so excited.
I'm going to say it so slowly.
I don't think that God did not take into account people who need some proof that Jesus was
here and he was who he said he was.
I don't think he overlooked that.
He says, if everyone stops talking about me, if you don't share about me, the rocks themselves

(43:54):
will cry out.
He's like, I have embedded in my creation.
Me.
You don't believe me?
Go look for it.
I know you.
There is logical proof.
There is data and fossils that all these things that prove this is real.
Can you see it?

(44:15):
Did you see it?
Have it for yourself?
No, but the rocks themselves will cry out.
And I think because God wants all of his kids to know who he is, he took account for those
who want to see the spiritual aspect and they want to see the supernatural and they want
to see the stuff that we can't wrap our minds around.

(44:36):
Then he has kids who want to see the things we can wrap our minds around.
Where is the, can we find the blood of Jesus?
Can we test the DNA?
Can we, like, all these things?
Like, is there proof that this thing happened?
Yes, it's right here.
Like, he loves us so much.
He took account for all the different ways we might find him and then where our faith
goes from there.

(44:56):
I agree with that.
I mean, I have so much.
Because we have to use both to navigate this realm that we're in.
Right.
Like, I have to use my intellect and logic to drive here.
Yeah.
Right.
Like, for sure.
Yeah.
So I do, I do agree we have to use both.

(45:17):
My point is just that at the end of the day, you just left with faith that.
Yeah.
They got us good.
He is who we are.
God is good.
My goodness.
That old saying.
That old saying.
That old saying.
Yeah, that's good.
That's good.
Yes, for sure.
Oh, I love that.
Okay.
So, New Age was crazy.

(45:38):
How did you give from New Age to Jesus?
What was that brick wall?
I wouldn't say there was a brick wall.
What was beautiful about it and mind blowing about it was that I was reading other texts.
And slowly the truth started to blossom.

(46:00):
It's like, oh, wait.
I'm way over here in left field.
And what's blossoming is Christ.
Like I was blown away by it.
Like, wait a second.
I wasn't expecting Christ over there.
Like, what's going on?
You know what I mean?
Like, kind of how you were saying like all of the wheel of faiths and they were pointing
to Christ.

(46:20):
I did not expect that.
You know what I mean?
Like I expected the swap like Christ to swap for Buddha.
Or you know, the Krishna or whatever.
But it wasn't.
It was, it was, hey, there he is.
You know, and it just blew me away.
How did you find it?
Like what was, what was like one thing that happened that brought Christ back into your

(46:43):
like line of vision or site?
There is an overlap between New Age and Christianity.
So like, there is some mysticism that happens when you start getting in some of these texts
that reference Christ and his sayings and the deeper metaphysical meanings of his words.

(47:06):
And you just, you're gone then.
Like you're going back to Christ that way.
Like you can't do anything about it.
So that's why it was so beautiful is because it took me back.
It was crazy.
It was awesome.
But was there, I guess my question is like, was there one thing or was there one moment

(47:27):
or was it just the general overlap and your brain recalling church?
And like, wait, I've heard this before.
Right.
Wait, this was.
Yeah, no, there wasn't a life event.
There was a, oh, I'm reading this New Age text.
And they're quoting Christ.
And that was part of the reframing of the Bible for me.

(47:51):
You see what I'm saying?
So what I was saying about the reframing, that brought me back to Christ because I saw it
differently than I had ever thought it before.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
Yeah, you saw it through like the whole, I mean, think about the first time you heard it,
you were a kid.
Yeah, probably.
Yes.
And then you had all these life experiences and religion experiences and supernatural

(48:16):
experiences and marriage and divorce like all these experiences.
And then you look at Christ, the Christ who loves you there and the Christ who loves you
as a little child.
And it's the same Christ.
You're like, wait, why?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
It's amazing.
Yes.
And that's why like, yeah, that is the good news.

(48:37):
That's the good news.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
He was there for me then too.
Yeah.
100%
I just needed to call my dad.
He's a good dad.
He is a good dad.
He's a good dad.
Oh, I love Jesus.
Yeah, because when you're a kid and you hear Jesus died for you, you're like, oh, it's nice.
And then you like walk through a mistake after a mistake and brokenness after brokenness

(48:58):
and you're like in this, like mess that, I mean, maybe you never did this.
I sure have where I've been at points in life where I'm like, how can this mess ever
get undone?
How can this ever turn into something good?
Like I'm just, I'm just screwed.
Like my life just sucks now and not who I am.
Enter Jesus and he's like, hold up though.

(49:21):
I died for your sins.
And then it means something to you because you're like, wait, I am a sinner.
I'm not just a sweet little kid coming to church because my mom had told me to put my hair
in a ponytail for this nonsense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I'm like, oh, wait, no, I like, I actually like, I no longer see myself as the Jesus

(49:43):
who was sitting with the sinners.
I am the sinner that Jesus sat with.
You know, it's such a perspective shift when you've, when you've walked in sin, which we
all have for sure.
And in whatever way, but it does.
It hits different.
It hits different.
And you're like, it's a blessing.
Holy, holy God is good.

(50:04):
Yes.
Oh, I guess how many times are you going to say that today?
All the times.
Okay.
Tell us about Zen pig.
Zen pig.
Yeah.
Zen pig.
Zen pig is a children's book series that I wrote for my son, Noble.
It's only because I saw how much self-imposed suffering I had incurred, self-imposed.

(50:27):
Let me say it again, self-imposed suffering I had incurred.
And I just wanted to help him navigate that to prevent him from going through it because
it was preventable.
Yeah.
And Zen pig teaches gratitude, mindfulness, compassion, self-forgiveness.
Like none of the things that I started until I was on a spiritual journey.

(50:49):
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
So that's where Zen pig came from and that's what it is today.
It's so cute.
Our girls love it.
Like we read it.
Thank you.
The little I'm asking.
Yeah.
There was like, where's my sleeping mask?
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
I can't sleep without my Zen pig.
Okay.
But it's really, really sweet.

(51:10):
Thank you.
Imagine you've had probably some pushback from the Christian community.
Oh, the Lord yes.
Yeah.
Of course.
And especially at the end of the book it says Namaste.
So that triggers some people.
It's one of those words that like meditate.
Yeah, like minutes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But yeah, I definitely got some pushback and request to like Mary how I am a Christ follower

(51:34):
and also the author of Zen pig.
But it's so easy for me.
Like that's not like I could say what?
Yeah.
What do you mean?
Those two things are not incongruing at all.
Yeah.
At all.
Yeah.
You know what I mean.
Zen pig is about the free will of it's a philosophical text.
Not a religious text.
Right.
Right.
So like Christ gave us free will.
God gave us free will.

(51:56):
How do we operate our minds and discipline our minds so that we can be more in alignment with
God.
Yeah.
Like what?
Like that's.
I don't understand what argument needs to be made.
Yeah.
Do you think that people.
I don't know.
I'm just guessing because I know when you say culture, you mean church.
I totally.

(52:16):
Bible bells culture.
Church culture.
Period.
Not that all churches are bad.
No.
And I know what church.
I know you're not.
Yeah.
You go to great church.
But I know your your your culture.
Yeah.
Means like church culture.
Right.
Like black and white.
Whatever.
Do you feel like you get any pushback?

(52:38):
Because wait, did you start you started the books before you were following Christ?
Oh for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So do you think that people are like, oh revamp it now that you're a believer to like make
it biblical?
Hmm.
Or whatever.
Maybe I haven't brought that to my to it.
But I mean, I don't know why I would.
You know what I mean?

(52:58):
Like because like I said, like I don't.
Yeah.
It's I don't see any clash.
Right.
You know what I'm saying?
Because I say believe it.
No, I want to be clear.
I totally still believe that we have the free will to make that aquarium as dark or as clear
as we want it to be.
Okay.

(53:19):
Or transparent.
We have the free will.
God gave us that free will.
So so here's a philosophical children's book that helps you make it more transparent.
Dude, like what?
It's letting more Christ in.
Right.
It's really not.
I feel like it's no different than like letting your kid read Arthur or something.

(53:42):
Like Zimping is so much better than Arthur.
Although they were both made by Mark Brown.
Yeah.
First shirt.
Mark Brokman wrote Arthur.
And I remember I remember being like, wait, is that the same guy?
Yeah.
Well, I went to a school tour one time and they're like, are you the Mark Brown?
And I was like, like, do I look just through?
What's wrong?

(54:02):
Are you talking about like?
Yeah.
So no, I'm not the Arthur Mark.
That's funny.
No, but it is.
It's a very like, I feel like self regulating or like just teaching you like, you don't have
a lot of people control your your mind and your heart.
You know, it's just it's sweet.
It's sweet.
I could go on for a decade about that.

(54:25):
But yes, I think you I appreciate it.
I appreciate that.
Well, I'm sorry if culture.
It's okay.
No.
I still go.
I still.
I still love the church.
Like there's no animosity there.
Yeah.
But I do have to.
I do have to not practice self preservation and flee the church.

(54:47):
Right.
Yeah.
Like that's that's on it.
I feel like you taught that to yourself in these books you wrote for a son.
I do.
I have to use in pick as a reminder for me.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Like again, like everybody's the same in terms of like how to discipline your mind.
And so like, yeah, I need reminders.
Yeah.
Every day.

(55:08):
Yeah.
Every day.
Every day.
I'll do.
Pray without ceasing without ceasing.
Yeah.
I love.
Yeah.
I always say that.
That's funny.
Yeah.
I'm like, oh, pray about whatever.
I'm always in prayer.
I'm always in prayer.
Sorry.
I forget that you're better than me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had to do more that t-shirt today.
I'm better than you.
I swear it's t-shirt.

(55:29):
Yeah.
I just always wear it.
I know.
Just in case.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Okay.
So stuff got never said, what is something that you believed in this like whole story?
It could be more than one something.
But like, what is the lie that that you believed that you felt like kept you from knowing who
God is and who you are in Christ throughout your life?

(55:52):
And well, let's just start there.
Yeah.
I've had tons of lies that I've internalized and I want you to expect, right?
Oh, sure.
But for sure, some of the biggest ones are God is not real and we're merely matter in
in a beautiful coincidence that we're all here.
Like, that is a lie that is perpetrated nonstop by the secular world.

(56:16):
For sure.
Okay.
Totally believed it.
It's extracted.
Another one would be that we're all talking about the same thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a one.
We're not talking about the same thing.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
So those two, I would say the linchpin lies that once extracted and replaced with Christ

(56:38):
changed everything.
The first one you said, merely matter.
Mearily matter.
What truth undid that lie for you?
I mean, I could say Christ.
That's the obvious answer.
I mean, like going into the journey of a spiritual journey, you know, getting out of an intellect,

(57:01):
vein and into an intuitive vein is the, I feel like I'm speaking nebulous.
I was going to say, talk to me like I'm unfamiliar with new age.
I'm not the words.
Yeah.
It just comes down to a spiritual journey.
Yeah.

(57:21):
It ultimately leads to Christ.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I watched new age.
We've talked about this, but like people in new age and the crystals and the trees and
like all these things that are overly glorified, God created those things.

(57:42):
And whatever God creates is in, it is in this word that the enemy is out to destroy what
God has created.
And like what a creative tactic to like make God's creation, the God instead of God.
It's really smart.
You know, like it is.
It's really smart because this stuff is amazing and it is beautiful.

(58:02):
And do crystals have frequencies?
Yeah.
Can they be good?
Yeah.
Should we worship them?
Absolutely not.
Right.
Should we put our hope and our faith in a crystal and in a tree and in moon water?
Whatever.
It's what is moon water?
Moon water is when you take a mason jar of water.
And then on a full moon, you put it outside and you let it charge with the lunar rays.

(58:26):
And then you drink it the next day and you make a wish and good don't you?
It could.
But that's a real practice.
Wow.
Okay.
So, but like even in that, I'm like, I wonder if there is some truth to like water changing
with the moon.
It could be.
But you're not pointing back to Christ.

(58:47):
Right.
Like I don't know if you know Dr. Joe D'Spenza.
He's all about like self healing and all that.
True.
But not you, it's Christ.
Yeah.
It's God.
Yeah.
Like he's the healing power.
And can I say something that would scare me if I were like a new age practice person?

(59:09):
Hmm.
It would.
The the weight of because I've heard this and correct me if I'm wrong, please.
But I've heard the divine is within me.
So I am the divine.
So my thoughts are of the divine.
And the weight that we would have to carry if we were actually God terrifies me.

(59:31):
It's a lot of weight.
That's scary.
I don't want to be in charge of like if I if like the I don't know how this like transition
transaction, whatever you want to call it, would work.
Me making God level decisions like I'm out on that.

(59:52):
I am all the way out on that.
I'm like, dude, I'm going to make the wrong decision.
Please like fix it.
Yes.
But I'm going to try.
And I'm going to trust you.
But to just be like, oh, whatever, whatever decision I made must have been God's decision
because God's in me and I'm God instead of a lot of responsibility.

(01:00:13):
Yeah.
And I feel like praise Jesus in his holy name because I know that God does love me and
he is in me and anything that my human self does or messes up, he can make it beautiful
and he can fix it.
Praise the Lord.
Holy Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
Dude, thank you so much for being here.

(01:00:33):
I'm so glad to be here.
It was an honor.
You should name a kid that I should one of these days, one of these days.
But dude, tell us how people can find you.
Yes.
Here's the deal.
Instagram, have you heard of that?
It's this new app.
Is a new?
Instagram, yeah.
Instagram @ZenPigBook, right?
This is the Instagram.
But if you want to check out ZenPig, I'm giving away the first book free.

(01:01:01):
Not a subscription service, anything like that, but go to freezeinpig.com and you can get
one.
SweetfreeZenPig.com.
Is he in prison?
That's that.
ZenPig.
FreeZenPig.
No, not freezeinpig.
FreeZenPig.
FreeZenPig.
FreeZenPig.
Right, right, right.
Thank you.
Okay.
So freezeinpig.com or ZenPigBook on Instagram.

(01:01:25):
On Instagram.
I love it.
Is there an email or anything?
People want to like, don't email them.
I don't want you.
Don't email them, y'all.
Don't do that.
Okay.
Sweet, well, thank you so much.
Thank you.
God bless you.
Your story is going to bless people.
I know it.
I know it.
Thank you guys so much for joining us today.
If you have any questions as always or comments, please email us at [e-mail].

(01:01:52):
And you can find us at www.stuffgodneverset.com.
We'll see you next time.
[Music]