June 25, 2025 • 53 mins
If you've ever wrestled with grief—or felt helpless supporting someone through loss—this is the episode you need. Host Audrey Cauthen sits down with author and biblical grief educator Natalie Weedman, who shares her raw journey after the unimaginable loss of her son. Together, they bust harmful Christian clichés, unpack what the Bible really says about sadness, and reveal practical ways to process pain and find true comfort.
Learn why God never shames you for grieving, how biblical mourning is cyclical (not linear!), and the life-changing pattern of “honesty, lament, promise, and thanksgiving.” Plus, discover how science is finally catching up with the wisdom of scripture when it comes to the mind-body connection in grief.
You’ll walk away with:
Ready for a new way to see grief? Watch now, and join a community finding God’s presence in the hardest places.
🙏 If you need prayer, connection, or resources, visit stuffgodneversaid.com
✨ Get Natalie Weedman’s book “Creative Comfort” on Amazon ( https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Comfort-Where-Grief-Meets/dp/B0CQVX5PY9 )
📱 Follow @mycomfortjourney on Instagram for more hope and tools: https://www.instagram.com/mycomfortjourney/
#ChristianGrief #BibleTeaching #StuffGodNeverSaid #FaithAndSuffering #NatalieWeedman #LossAndHealing #GriefSupport #FaithJourney
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/stuff-god-never-said--6381256/support.
Learn why God never shames you for grieving, how biblical mourning is cyclical (not linear!), and the life-changing pattern of “honesty, lament, promise, and thanksgiving.” Plus, discover how science is finally catching up with the wisdom of scripture when it comes to the mind-body connection in grief.
You’ll walk away with:
- Relief that you don’t have to “move on” or have it all together
- Simple, compassionate words to support others in pain
- Permission to bring ALL your feelings to God—and why He welcomes them
- A proven biblical process for healing, hope, and authentic comfort
Ready for a new way to see grief? Watch now, and join a community finding God’s presence in the hardest places.
🙏 If you need prayer, connection, or resources, visit stuffgodneversaid.com
✨ Get Natalie Weedman’s book “Creative Comfort” on Amazon ( https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Comfort-Where-Grief-Meets/dp/B0CQVX5PY9 )
📱 Follow @mycomfortjourney on Instagram for more hope and tools: https://www.instagram.com/mycomfortjourney/
#ChristianGrief #BibleTeaching #StuffGodNeverSaid #FaithAndSuffering #NatalieWeedman #LossAndHealing #GriefSupport #FaithJourney
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/stuff-god-never-said--6381256/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Bible tells us to rejoice with those who rejoice,
and mourn with those who mourn, And so when we
talk about walking through grief with others, we're to align
ourselves with the positioning that the person who is closest
to the situation how they're positioning their heart. Some of
(00:21):
the most meaningful and heartfault words that people spoke to
me were, you know what, I don't know what to say, really,
but my heart's breaking with you. I just want you
to know I'm here for you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, guys so much for coming back for another
episode of stuff God never said. Today, I am going
to be talking with my precious friend and one of
my personal heroes, Natalie Weadman. She has incredible insight to
biblical grief. She has an beautiful testimony of the Father's
provision of comfort in unthinkable times. And I am so
(00:58):
excited to have this conversation and with her. It's going
to be hard. It might be triggering. We do talk
about child loss and I can't even say that without
tearing up. So thank you so much for being here. Yes,
thank you for having me. I'm so pumped for this time.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Like you said, it's going to be hard, but it's
also going to be good. And I think a lot
of people are going to get some hope for their
their own grief journeys.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, and probably also hope for other people's grief journeys
that they're trying to walk through with. Yes, and have
no idea what to do because I feel like a big,
a big thing with grief for anyone. But like my
perspective from Christians, from believers is like this is sticky.
(01:44):
I don't want to say the wrong thing, so I'm
not going to say anything or I'm just going to
say this thing, this cliche I heard that shouldn't be
said necessarily. Yes, and I want to be part of
the solution to that. And you have done you already
have done some incredible work towards that and towards like
(02:05):
teaching like don't shy away from grief, and here's what
the Bible says about grieving and here's how God created
us to grieve, Yeah, because he did. Like God is
not like there's no shame in grief. He's not mad
at you for grieving. He's not mad at you for
being sad. He's not no punishing you or like do
you not believe in me? How dare you be sad?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You know?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, no, it's so true, it's not it. And I
think it's a really really common misconception about God and
his character.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so right, almost like we get so focused on promise, yeah,
that we forget there's a process to get there. And
I think I think that process part is the hardest
for us to walk through personally, but also for other
people to come alongside us and walk with us, because
it's so messy. We like cut and dry things, we
(02:59):
like microwave of solutions, and the Bible tells us to
rejoice with those who rejoice, and mourn with those who mourn.
And so when we talk about walking through grief with others,
we're to align ourselves with the positioning that the person
who is closest to the situation, how they're positioning their heart.
(03:23):
And so if they are in that place where they're
just in sackcloth and ashes, we're supposed to get in
there with them.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And sometimes we.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Feel like we have to be there with the right words,
we have to say all these things.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
But honestly, it's presence.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I remember, you know, in the aftermath of losing our son,
some of the most meaningful and heartfault words that people
spoke to me were you know what, I don't know
what to say, really, but my heart's breaking with you.
I just want you to know I'm here for you
and I'm going to be here for you. And so
that's all. You don't have to have words. You just
(04:00):
have to be present and align yourself with the person
who is closest to the to the loss.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, that's really I mean I feel like we could
just be like, Okay, great, have a great day at
that point, like if I don't want to say if
there's one thing, but that's a very important thing. And
even Job talks about that.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
The book of Job was like his friends show up
and they don't say a word for seven days, and
they were a comfort to him, Yes, and then they
started talking again and then they started using words and
they were not comforting anymore. No, it's like, oh, where's
your secret sin?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Anyway, we'll get to that later, but tell us, tell
us your story. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
So, my husband, Jesse and I have been married for
fifteen years and about five years in we had a son.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
His name was Graham. And just to tell you a
little bit about our background.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
We both grew up in church, we were pastor's kids,
We had our own experiences with the Lord as young adults,
and so really wanted to make you know God's word
our word, and build our foundation on the Lord. And
so we brought a baby boy into that and we
were so excited because we had just laid our hands
(05:20):
on some just amazing parenting tools. One of them was
called The Power I think called about the power of
blessing your children, where it talks about speaking words of
life over your kids from the womb and as I
grow up as prayers to bless them because blessing is
what assigns identity. And so we felt like we just
(05:42):
had this amazing, wonderful plan and we're like, Lord, we're
partnering with you in this little child's life, and we
were just so excited to be parents.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Well skip forward fourteen months.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I was actually overseas on a business trip and I
got the call that my son had passed away in
the middle of the night. And my husband wasn't even
going to tell me until I got home, because what
a thing to hear. It's like every parent's worst nightmare.
(06:19):
And so I ended up rushing home, and I just
remember thinking, God, this doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You know, there's a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
The Bible says that in this world you will have trouble,
and I think we have in our mind what kind.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Of trouble we might expect.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You know, maybe I lost a job, didn't get that promotion,
or something else happened, but child loss was never on
the radar. And so when we found ourselves grieving and
not having any answers as to why he passed away,
it began this journey, this big valley season of our
(07:01):
lives where we had so many questions and we had
so much turmoil.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I can't even describe to you just the level of.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Just I don't want to say despair, but the emotion
is so big you literally don't know what to do
with it. Yeah, And so we found ourselves in that place,
and out of that, I mean, I did the only
thing that I knew to do, and that was run
(07:32):
to Jesus and run to the hem of his robe.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Because there was no other fix for me. There was
there was nothing else, There was nothing else for me
to do. And so I ran to Jesus, and I
ran to his word, and I said, Lord you've got
to help me.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
You have to help me. And so I.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Started digging in, and I started reading about people, you know,
like Job and Hannah and others than the Bible, who
they were in similar situations of grief. And maybe they
weren't all like mine, but there was a turmoil in
them that they didn't know what.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
To do with.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And I began to study how they poured it out,
how they got God involved, and out of that, I've
learned this pattern of Biblical mourning, which is not this
binary model we have in Western Christianity today. You know,
it's either like you're joyful or you're sad. You know,
(08:42):
it's either you have the promise or you don't. You know,
you just don't have faith for that. It's like this beautiful, glorious,
crazy tension that Biblical culture understood back in the day,
this whole morning processing thing with God. And so I
(09:03):
began to take these principles I pulled from His word,
and I began to implement them in my life, and
I saw such wonderful release, because in mourning you have
to do both. You have to release, you have to grieve,
but you also have to position your heart to receive
and so in that process, I found such health coming
(09:26):
to my life out of that, and really it's just
been a journey ever since of continuing to walk that
journey with the Lord in the morning process.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I love how you prayed when Graham's in your womb
over blessings. Man, I'm gonna have a really hard time
just saying anything. In our Bible study right now, we're
talking about Jacob and Esau and the difference in a
(10:02):
birthright and a blessing, and the birthright was physical and
the blessing is spiritual. And how the blessings that you've
spoken over his life and you've prayed over his life
are so vast throughout the entire world that though his
(10:22):
life was cut short, Like these things that you're taking
from God's word, these things that he has taught you
and God has allowed you to learn through his life
and share with others who desperately need need it, Like
I want to know. I want to know every detail
of what God has revealed to you through the processes
(10:43):
of grieving, the gift that He really has given us
through the process of grieving, and not this what's the
word called like like when it's on a timeline like, Okay,
(11:03):
how long are you going to be sad for? Right?
Like your timer is up? Like you were sad, now
you're done being sad. Now you're happy. And you just
look back and think, oh, how happy I got to
have myself? Like I don't. I don't think that that's real.
Like that's not real, that's not human, that's not how
how we were designed to grieve. And I feel like,
(11:26):
I mean even in general, like life isn't doesn't work
that way. It's not like, oh it just life just
keeps getting better and happier and more and more good. No,
it's like a roller coaster. It's amazing and it's hard
and sometimes it's both at the same time. And how
do we navigate these things? And what a gift that,
like God has actually told us how right to navigate
(11:47):
these things? Does it match our culture? Though, No, it doesn't,
because we are a very linear culture. Linear that's the
what I was looking for. That's what I was looking for.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yes, it's linear, but any sort of that you go
through that's traumatic, or any sort of like loss that
affects you deeply, this stuff is cyclical. And this is
what the people of the Bible understood you know, they
were not thrown off by the fact that, Hey, I've
already prayed about this ten times, But here I am again, Lord,
(12:19):
I need your help again. I need your help still
because your emotions present themselves in new ways. There's seasons
of life that change, and so we have to almost
mentally prepare and have the revelation that I'm going to
be in some level of processing my entire life, and
that in itself can feel a little depressing, maybe because
(12:43):
we like to think cut and dry.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yep, I'm done with that now. How many more months?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
How many more months am I going to be in
this stage before I move on to the next.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But I think we just have to be ready.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
To enter the cycle at any moment and lean into it.
And that's where God meets us and we don't have
to have, you know it, say God, you know, here's
your promise. I'm going to pretend like I'm not sad
because I know your promise. Yeah, we still have to
process with him, and that's the messy stuff that we
don't tip it like.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, And you know what, something I love about the
Bible is that, like today, I feel like we often
try to remind God like oh, you promise this, or
I think, or even if we think, we promise, like,
we try to remind him of our promises, of his
promises to us. But throughout his word, he is reminding us.
(13:35):
He is reminding his people. He's reminding Abraham, he's reminding
Jacob and Isaac. He's reminding them of his promises. Yes,
and this isn't. I feel like so many people look
at the word and they're like, oh, it's a rule book.
I'm like, no, dude, it's a love story. It's a
love story from a father who loves his kids and
has not forgotten them. Even when we feel like, oh,
(13:57):
this bad thing happened, you must have forgotten us, you
must have looked away, you must have been paying attention
somewhere else. But he continually comes back and he reminds
us of his promises. Yes to us, And those promises
are not only good things are gonna happen to you.
Those promises are not. You know, if you don't sin,
(14:20):
you won't have bad stuff, right if you're a good girl, Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
That's everything's gonna work out just the way you want
it to. And that's just yeah, it's not the story.
Life is imperfect. There's sin in the world, you know,
there's things that we just can't control. And so it
isn't about it isn't about the perfect picture that we envision. Yeah,
it's it's who we are in and through really tough
situations because of who He is in us.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And that's the point. Yeah, it is, And it's a
really hard point for our linear minds, yes, to wrap around.
And I feel like it's honestly, one of the things
I hear most often from non believers' is like, oh, well,
if God is good, if God is real, then why
do bad things happen? Which is such a layered, such
(15:07):
a laired question. But even from the beginning, like when
sin entered the world, like sin took over, the enemy
took over. We have free will. That is not a combination,
not a good combination now that we can handle without him,
you know, like sin and darkness are in our world.
The enemy wants to take all good things and make
(15:30):
them bad. But the loving father that God is doesn't
just let it end there. Yeah, he doesn't let it
end on like all all good things become bad. No,
but all beauty or all ashes will turn to beauty. Yes,
from the bad thing, because a loving father isn't just
like yeah, I know sin right, but through you? Oh
(15:56):
my goodness, Okay, I would love to know with out
giving away, like everything that's in your book, which we'll
talk about a minute, I would love to know, like,
what are some of the processes that you have, the
patterns and processes you've seen in the Bible, and how
I love when you share things about what is going
on in your brain and your body and what Scripture
(16:17):
says you need to do and how those two things
go together. Yes, like this thing is it's like science
more and more proves God's word to be sure, like
every single day, and I think this is this is
such a beautiful picture of that. How you're like, if
we do what the Bible says, this is what our
brain and body are doing. Yeah, oh absolutely So anyway,
(16:41):
I would love for you to speak into a little
bit of that as much as you're comfy with. Oh absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
So.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I talked about the patterns, the patterns of biblical mourning
and how that is like the unlocker of God given
comfort and so there was this pattern that I observed
from scripture. So we can go and see and lamentations
even like places like Second Chronicles where people start off
really honest with the Lord. It's like these four things.
(17:11):
It's honesty, it's lament, it's promise, and then thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So all throughout Scripture, I.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Saw that pattern of grieve more and receive, grain more,
grieve more and receive, and we have to start with
that honest place. And that's exactly where David and so
many others started with the Lord said God. He would
say some very blunt and stark things to the Lord, God,
you have forsaken me. And when we read it we
(17:42):
think of it as like poetry or something, but this
was someone who had real, raw grief that they were
pouring out before the Lord. And so we always have
to start with honesty, How am I really feeling? And
I think that's actually we that's actually where we lose
it almost immediately. Sometimes in our grief more and received
(18:04):
process is because we feel like we should be beyond things,
or or because we know a promise it should automatically
make us feel better or different on the inside. But
we get to the promise through processing with the Lord.
And so starting with honesty, pouring it out to the Lord,
(18:25):
telling him the things that you don't like telling the
things that you don't understand and saying, Lord, I'm really
struggling with this. I need your help making that connection
with him. So you pour it out.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And then you move into the promise.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Like if you read Psalms, David would always come full circle.
He would start really honest and really blunt, God, where
are you? Darkness is my closest friend. He would get
pretty depressing, but then at the end he would say Lord.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
He would say the equivalent of Lord.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
All that said, this is who I I know you
to be, this is your character, and this is who
I'm counting on you to be. And then at the
end it was like the bow on top. He would
end with thanksgiving. So it became like this full cycle
mourning process. And so often we get prescriptive with one
or the other, like we really lean into you just
(19:19):
got to be honest about the depression, and you got
to be honest about all the things that just really stink.
But we never take it full circle, and so we
never access I feel like we don't access fully the
measure of comfort that God wants to pour out on
us because we don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
How to mourn.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, and that comes to stuff God never said, because
he never said, blessed are those who have bad feelings
because of trauma, tragedy, or loss. He said, Blessed are
those who mourn, for they will be comforted. We have
to learn how to mourn biblically if we want to
access God's comfort.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Hmmm, that's so accurate. And even even in talking culture wise,
it I feel like I think, I mean, this is
not that everybody does this thing, but it's so common
now to go through something traumatic, get prescribed something for
(20:22):
the intense feelings, plan to get it all, get off
of that when it's less intense. Yeah, and then and
then like go on living life, and I and and
is that necessary sometimes? Maybe? Probably? I don't know, like
I can. I am not speaking for everyone, I am
not speaking for every situation, but I I see that.
I mean, I mean I experienced that with my self
(20:45):
and with our story through infertility. My doctors would regularly
ask me infertility is hard. Do you want to be
put on something? And I'm like, no, I don't want
to be put on something that's probably just gonna mess
up my fertility horse right, yeah, help me up. I
just want you to listen to me, you know. But
but I think that's a really really good point that
(21:07):
the process of mourning is uncomfy, and with I think
probably with just about anything, uncomfy is where the comforter
meets us.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, that's a great point. That's exactly where he meets us. Yeah,
but we have to lean in, you know, we can't
shy away were we are so used to. We're paint
avoiding creatures, which is natural, but there there gets to
be a point in the process where entering into the honesty,
(21:40):
the morning, the lament, and all the wonderful things that
God pours out after as you process through, it's it's
like this, it's this wonderful and glorious thing. It's it
truly is this blessed thing. And I think if we
could tap into that as as society, our grief experience,
(22:03):
our post traumatic experience, would be completely different, because then
we know what to do with our turmoil. Our turmoil
is supposed to be plugged in somewhere. Yeah, and I
actually made a post about this a couple of months ago,
but I talked about is your grief grounded? Because we
(22:23):
all have you know, plugins at home outlet outlets in
the wall at home, and there is a grounding prong
in all of our plugins that we need so that
extra electricity can come out of the appliance so something
doesn't catch on fire.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Is that that third little progress? I never knew what
that was. I thought it was just to hold it
up to the grounding one. This is the grounding one.
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So when we have all of this pent up turmoil,
the problem that we run into is we don't have
a place to plug it in.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
We just shove it, yep. And we sometimes can use
the word of God to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You know, we stayed to promise and say I shouldn't
feel this way and then shove it. But if we
pour it out, if we enter into that biblical mourning cycle,
then we come full circle.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
We pour it out to the Lord.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
We do speak the promise because the Word is our foundation,
and then we thank Him for who He's going to
be in our journey with us. So it's so important
to do the full to be grounded in Him as
we're seeking to process deep internal turmoil.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, can you speak into I know you can't. Some
of what happens in our mind, in our brain, and
in our body when we do that cycle. Mm hmm.
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It is the most practically supernatural process that you could
probably ever enter into, because you start at a place
of overwhelm. And everybody has their own version of this.
And I will be the first to say that loss
of a loved one is not the only grief place.
(24:10):
So it can be a fertility journey experience. It can
be loss of a relationship, a divorce, just the rug
of life being pulled out from under you. So whatever
that thing is for you, it overwhelms your body and
your mind. Everyone goes through that. So what you do,
(24:31):
if it is so important?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
You can stew in it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
You know, you can put a band aid over it,
say I shouldn't feel this way, or you can pour
it out, or you can self medicate, as we talked about,
you know, and so and again, you know this stuff,
even like medication.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
It's meant to be our help, not our hope.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
And that's something that I heard Carlos Whittaker say, and
I thought it was so profound because we can't think
of that as an answer or a crutch. We have
to we have to take what's happening in here in
our body, in our mind, and we have to plug
it in somewhere, and that is in the biblical morning cycle.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's so good. I feel like I'm like trying to
mentally keep up because I am one, like probably all humans,
I struggle with grief even though I've walked it, even
though you know I have felt it and I've walked
it with friends. I'm I'm so quick to be like,
how can we be better? I'm like, okay, so give
(25:40):
me the solution for grief, right, you know, I'm like,
can you can you tell me the three step process
and how long it takes to be done grieving And
it's just it's you know, it's not that and our
and our bodies aren't meant to work that way. That
sounds very robotic when you think about it, like sad mode,
(26:00):
happy mode, Okay, all done, Like that's in the past.
But that's it's the cyclical. The cyclical nature of grief
is where I feel like a lot of well, where
I feel like I get stuck, like I'm ready for
a timeline. I'm ready for I want to know what
the triggers will be. I want to know how to
(26:21):
avoid them, even though like a trigger might be a
good thing. Two to like, remind you of where you've come,
how far you've come, how God has carried you through. Yes,
and this brings up you look like you have something
you want to say. Yeah, this brings uff a really good.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Saying because in that process, it's not only important to
talk about how you feel, but it's important to talk
about how you feel about how you feel. That's so
many feelings, right, but what do you feel about how
I feel? Okay, because what I ran into in my
(27:02):
grief processing is God, I feel this way, but I
actually hate feeling this way. I don't understand why I
feel this way. I don't want to feel this way.
And so taking that conversation that happens in our head,
even just what you were saying right now about triggers,
(27:25):
and I'm ready for a timeline. I'm ready for some
of this stuff to be wrapped up. These are all
things that we have to make part of our conversation
with the Lord.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And it's so funny, it's so simple. When you think
about it, you're like, oh, well, duh, of course.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But we have all these conversations in our heads and
even with other people, but we don't actually tell him
because we don't feel like it's worth mentioning. But it's
so important to talk about how you feel, but also
how you feel about how you feel, because you will
find him going into that place too. He will meet
you there too, He will answer you there too.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And so I love that you.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Mentioned that because that's also a very important element of
grieving is your feelings. Absolutely, your basic emotions, your rude emotions, but.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Even how you feel about that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You know, which will vary from person to person because
of our unique backgrounds, how we grew up, you know,
religious trappings still on us sometimes, you know, not bad things.
It's just like we have these certain lenses that we're
looking at our own lives with and sometimes we just
need to be reminded. Whoa step back for a second,
(28:40):
you know, make this part of the conversation with God
because he wants to hear that, and he wants to
meet us there.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That's so good. And I really relate to how what
you were, what you had you'd said it a few times.
I shouldn't feel this way. I should be at this point.
And I think with that misconception of grief and mourning,
we can be really hard on ourselves about grieving and mourning. Yes,
(29:11):
and and feeling how you feel about how you feel
when the shouldn't part is like shame that you're bringing
into yourself about right your grieving process. Yes, yeah, and
so let's go ahead and cancel that. Yes, let's get
that out of here, because there is no shame right
(29:36):
on you, especially for grieving. There is no I mean,
maybe there is a should and shouldn't of, like how
to you know, maybe don't like get destructive with it
and getting don't get crazy or anything, but like you're sad,
be sad, yeah, be sad. Yeah, if you're sad and
happy together at the same time, do that do it? Yeah? Yeah?
(30:00):
That should That should and shouldn't mentality is really really
hard to break, I think just generally speaking, like I
shouldn't do this, I should, but it's I feel like
there's an extra layer of it too, when you're should
and shouldn't ing your feelings right, which I am so
(30:20):
guilty of. I shouldn't let this make me be sad. No, No,
I'm stronger than that, or like, I'm not going to
give this power over me. But even in a conversation
I had earlier today with someone, this was the Holy
Spirit because I had. I was having that conversation with him,
like I shouldn't let this let me be, make me sad,
Like I should not allow this power over me. I
(30:42):
said that to got into myself, and and he said
something so sweet to me. But but in that he said, this,
this wound is it's not you giving someone else power.
It's a gift. It's a gift to you to deepen
(31:05):
your empathy, to deepen what I have for you, to
deepen your calling to and most importantly, to deepen your
relationship with me and your walk with me right now,
right now. And I was like, thank you Jesus that
I'm sad. Yeah, And I don't like to be sad,
like at all. I really like to not be sad.
That's my favorite thing to have a different things. But
(31:26):
if I can thank him for sorrow and thank him
for grief and thank him for tears, it's not because
of denial. It's because he is good in all my feelings. Yes,
he is good in all my seasons. Yes. And he
is a loving father in every stage of the process.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Well, and even just you speaking it out loud is
so huge because we get caught in this cycle usually
of you know, I should do better, the shame thing
like you were talking about, and it's all internal and
you know, have you ever have you ever had thoughts
like fly through your mind You're like, I should think
better thought Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Literally the other day my husband was cold plunging and
I was like, hey, should I be doing like way
more than I'm doing And he was like what. I
was like, I don't know. It just feels like I
should be doing a lot better than i'm doing. And
he was like, no, you're good, and I was like, okay, okay, cool.
Just had a quick panic about everything always, but I'm
better now, right, Like those shoulds well, just yeah, they'll
(32:31):
get you, yes, which is why.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
You do have to speak them out loud to the Lord.
You know, you do have to engage in that process
of communication with him, because just thinking oh, I should
do better, I should think better thoughts, I should feel differently,
that's not going to change you from the inside out.
The outpouring will, though, yeah, the talking, the communication will.
(32:53):
So it's so important to bring those things out into
the open with the Lord.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, And even as you're saying that, I feel like
the should are almost always the extra image things what
have I learned to display? What is okay to be seen?
What is okay to be known? Yeah? And what should
I be doing? Like, what is the on paper process
(33:18):
of how this should be going? I feel like we
need to come up with a phrase about getting shoulds.
I don't know, there's something will come to me.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
But like I heard once, if I heard once someone say,
don't should on me?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Yes, that's perfect. So we need to stop shooting ourselves.
Can I say that that's so good?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
There it is. I thank you Jesus for that, because
that's that's so good. Don't should on me? I love it.
I love it. And I feel like we do that
to ourselves all the time, the should should should, should?
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Should?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Tell me?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Absolutely? Because you know, we want, we want to do
what's right. We want to do it comes from a
heart that wants to right, a sincere heart. Yeah, and so,
but sometimes we can be our own worst task masters
in that respect. We just yeah, we get into that
shame blame cycle when really, you know, we we do
(34:26):
need a process with the Lord, and we do need
people in our lives will tell us listen.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
No, yeah, yeah, I'm telling you right now, no yeah,
And we need to hear that too. Yeah, other people,
it's time to get out and do something just for
right now. Yeah, Yes, I definitely I can see that.
I feel like I'm that person though, and I'm always like,
is this is this an okay time for me to
like can we do something fun? Is that okay?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
You play a valuable role in everybody's story.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I just need to not do it too soon or
say you should get out and do something. But so,
can you touch on any physical things that may come
with grief, like body responses, anxiety depression, that type of
thing and how it can look in grieving.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, I can present it a lot of different ways,
so it could be you know, anxiety depression migrains constant
tension in your body. One of the things that one
of the places God really ministered to me after we
lost our son was I had these constant knots in
(35:42):
my stomach where I just felt nauseous all the time
and I couldn't really eat. I was losing weight. And
the Lord actually saw me in that place. I'll never forget.
I was in a church service and someone randomly there
they were praying for me and randomly switched gears in
(36:04):
the middle of their prayer and they said, I command
the knots in your stomach to be released in Jesus' name,
And from that moment that absolutely went away.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I could eat normally.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So there's there's a lot of different bodily things that
can happen.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I don't know if I mentioned.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Migraines, just job pain and tension. I mean, just think
about when your when your bodily system is overwhelmed with stress,
people shut down in different ways, and so learning to
recognize when that's happening and not seeing it as an enemy,
because I think sometimes we make our bodies the enemy, yeah,
(36:45):
when really they're just the hosts for the fallout of
what is what's happened, things that has happened to you,
things that are going on in your mind, just being
overwhelmed in your senses and so leaning and leaning into
the Lord even and that is so important, and just
not feeling shame around resting and taking the time that
(37:10):
you need to soak in his presence to get the
proper nutrition, you know, to get the rest that you need.
And sometimes sometimes like I mentioned, you do need help.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
You know, you need help.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
You need a doctor to prescribe you something you need
to go talk to somebody, You need friends to get
around and pray for you or annoint you with oil.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
So to me, there's so many tools in the tool belt,
but we can't be afraid of how our body responds
naturally to triggers, yeah, to things that bother us, to
things that are overwhelming to us. And as we get
used to leaning into that and not pushing ourselves too hard,
(37:55):
not being a task master in our own minds, as
we do that, those things start to normalize. The highs
won't feel so high, the lows won't feel so low.
But yeah, I would say, just taking it as it comes,
however it presents itself. Yeah, and just saying, Okay, this
(38:18):
is what I'm dealing with today. Lord, you're in this
with me. We're partnering together.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, you know, what.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Do I need to do today? And so that's the
biggest thing too, is learning what you need to do today? Yeah,
don't think about tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah. And I feel like early in early in stages
of grief and trauma response, it can't even be today.
It can be like, what do I need to do
in the next one minute? Yeah? Right, did I brush
my teeth. Yes, I heard that this may be relevant
but may not be. But I heard it described once
(38:54):
as like your brain is like a filing system. Something happens,
it knows where to file it. Something new happens and
knows where to file it. Basic basic things like brush
you Oh, I just woke up. It's time to brush
my teeth and brush my hair. But when and so
all those things have a place to be filed. And
then trauma happens and there's no place to file it
(39:14):
because it never should have happened. So your brain like
freezes there and doesn't know. And then you have all
the other things just stacking on top of that thing
that can't be filed because you have this one unfilable,
violable thing. And so before you're processing the trauma or
(39:37):
able to or go through the process of grieving and morning,
it's like everything else gets just stuck. There's nowhere to
file anything. Yeah, that's a great point. And I don't
know if if that is like one true for everybody,
but I have I have felt that in you know,
miscarriage and neck topic and failed and all the shower
(39:59):
becomes very hard, very hard, or like what what is next?
Like there's a I'm not necessarily a person who wants
to be told what to do in most cases, but
there there was a time where I was like, I
need you to tell me what to do, like all day,
I just need I need, you know, my husband to
be like, hey, it's time to to feed the baby,
(40:23):
or I don't know why, I guess I wouldn't have
had a baby. So yeah, I'm already back. Eat there
you go, eat ahead and eat like I can't think
of anything. But but that process is so beautiful and
so important and and I know God does not want
us to stay there in trauma brain, not being able
(40:48):
to function from one thing after further that that will
be a season yeah, of normalization. Yes, yeah, as you get.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Used to even the sensation of grief. But like you said,
I think that's such a great visual. You know, you
have this one thing that happens, and then everything else
in life just stacks on top of it. He helps
us with that thing at the bottom. Yeah, you know,
And so it takes time. Yeah, I mean we like
(41:20):
to poop pooh the idea that time heals, and I
agree time alone does not heal, but you do need
some time, yes, And just get used to the sensation
of being overwhelmed at times. Yeah, because it will happen.
But he's so faithful to be there, minute by minute
whatever we need right now and at any moment, you
(41:40):
can pull him into it, and I would tell him
that too.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Lord, I'm pulling you into this.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
You said you were going to be a friend that
sticks closer than a brother, That's what you said. So
I'm expecting you to be that for me right now.
How you do that, how you show up, that's completely
up to you.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Maybe I just feel different, or maybe I don't feel
different at all. Maybe it's it's me making this declaration
that I'm depending on you in this moment. But whatever
it is, you can grab on to them.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
In that moment, in that minute. Yeah, it's so good.
Tell me about your book. Oh gosh, the book book
and a devotional. It is book, and.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
I also do have devotionals as well, more than one devotional. Yes, okay,
so it's it's basically for the devotional. It's all the
same cover. It's just a journaling a journaling outlet. That's
something that I actually started in grief that I really
was super snobby about beforehand. I was like journaling. There
(42:45):
was never a journal that I went back to there
that I was like, you were an idiot.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I just burn.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
So but but it became a way to release and
also to record the ways that the Lord was speaking
to me, ministering to me. And so I wanted to
create that same outlet for other people because what mine
turned into is some of the content in Creative Comfort.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
And the book.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
The book itself is called creative Comfort because creative creative
Comfort so cute.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Because as as we mourn, as we agree with God.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I think the thing that surprised me the most is
how creative and how much he surprised me in that
process because as I learned to let go of control,
so I was entering fully into the Biblical Morning process.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I was expecting him to show up as the comforter
for me. But I completely released control of what that
looked like.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I had no thought in my brain, like God, you
need to show up for me like this, I need
someone to give me a word.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I need to be encouraged. Today.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I just knew I'm going to do these I'm going
to mourn with you, Lord, and how you show up
as the creator of the universe in my journey is
entirely up to you. And so what this does is
it it documents the ways that God creatively ministered to
me as I mourned with him. And I am also
(44:19):
a very practical person, and so I also map out,
you know, these these are the steps, this is the
process that you enter into. And again, the Word is
our foundation. So it's chock full of the Word of God.
I'm pulling straight from scripture. It's just that sometimes we
need the Holy Spirit to.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Breathe on the word we already know.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
And so for a lot of people, people have told
me that these are all things I knew, but there
was just such fresh revelation that it'd be it's something
I could apply today. I also go through all the questions,
you know, that I personally had when I was walking
(45:02):
through grief, because there's a lot of questions, theological questions
and other kinds of questions.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
And so I go through how to.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Even process these questions that we have that feel like
deal breaker questions, you know, because we've all seen other
people walk through trauma and loss and grief, and some
people you can look at and you can say, wow,
you know, God really brought new life out of that
somehow that's the miracle of how he works. And then
(45:35):
in other examples you're like, oh gosh, like your heart
breaks because it ends in something destructive in their lives.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
And so how we.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Process through these questions that we have that is actually
what makes or breaks this grief journey. So we can't
be afraid to ask the questions, explore the questions, sit
in the question, and wait on the Lord to answer us.
And you know what, sometimes he won't. He won't answer
us about specific questions, but he will always answer with
(46:10):
his presence.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
And that is what I've found in this journey. It's
it's kind.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Of probably scattered the way I'm explaining it, but it
has just been such a wonderful journey of learning him
and who he is as a comforter and being able
to document that for somebody else who is looking who
they feel stuck or they want practical steps, you know,
(46:36):
they want they want to do this journey with him.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
So that book is for those people. Amazing. Where can
we get this book? Creative Comfort?
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Creative Comfort is on Amazon exclusively, so oh we can
find it there. So Amazon, Yes, it's called Emma Shoud
again creative comfort where grief meets God. It's got a
beautiful I feel like even the covers like very creative
and beauty.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
And I love that it's a tree. Yes, oh my gosh,
I of right, just miss baby. I love it so much.
And the journaling thing is so important. I fight journaling
a lot. I just don't want to. And if I'm
being really honest, I don't want to because I don't
really want to talk about at all how I'm feeling.
Oh that's funny. I really don't like. I don't want
(47:21):
to talk about it with myself. I don't want to
talk about God. I just like, just fix it right right? Oh,
I don't love it. But one of the things we
were we were recently talking and teaching on Abraham and
how when God called Abram out of Canaan, he most
(47:41):
likely was not a believer, but he heard God's voice
and he followed it, and whenever God met him somewhere,
he built an altar. So he God said, hey, get up, go.
He immediately got up and went. And God wasn't even
he didn't even say the full promise at that point.
He said, hey, get up and go somewhere. I'm gonna
tell you. I'm gonna tell you about and he was
(48:04):
just like, okay, cool, sign me up. That like immediate
obedience always blows my mind because I'm like, I hear
you saying list but like, show me more, reveal more
to me first, and then I might go like, I
am so guilty of that. And but but as far
as journaling, this is tying together in a second. But
(48:27):
God shows up, he builds an altar. God showed up
multiple times and would give him the next step and
the next step and the next step. He would give
him exactly what he needed for the next step. And
when God showed up to Abram, he built an altar. Yeah,
and so he as he's going, you keep seeing him
with his next step of obedience, his next step of faith.
(48:47):
He builds the altar. And then he gets to a
point and you're in the story and you're like, is
he gonna do this crazy thing God's asking him to do?
And like how's he feeling? Is he scared? Is he afraid?
Is he what? What's going on? And you stop and think,
at that point, this man who's hearing God's voice and
(49:08):
seeking God's voice, his life looks nothing like probably how
he imagined it. He left every like it's so so
against the plan of what he probably thought, and every
opportunity when he gets instructions, he has a choice to
make an obedience or not right. But to make the connection,
(49:34):
he is able to look back at all the altars
he's built and all the times God has shown up
for him, and he as he looks forward into the unknown,
how in the world could he possibly think that God's
going to leave him hanging there?
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
And I take that as Audrey, you need a journal.
You need to build that altar right where you are.
You need to remember what God has done for you.
You need to remember absolutely how you had no idea
where you were going or what you were doing. Yes,
you didn't know up from down, left from right, you
(50:10):
know nothing, and you were scared and alone and afraid,
and He showed up for you. Don't let yourself forget it,
that build that altered. Don't forget journal in the book. Yeah,
because the more you do that, the more you're going
to walk forward into the unknown and be able to
look back and say, look at all the times he
showed up for me. He's not going to just stop
(50:31):
showing up for me now, right, he's not. He didn't
forget me, then he's not going to forget me now, yes,
And I have to carry that with me to make
myself journal my feelings.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I heard someone say once they said the key to
future victories is remembering your past victories.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Oh that's really good, being thankful for those.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
And we always overestimate our memory abilities.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Oh always, So I absolutely agree.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
I think writing them down is a way you set
up that altar to the Lord and say, Lord, I
remember what you've done. I'm not going to forget your goodness,
because when we forget, that's when we, like the Israelites,
we start complaining or yeah, grumbling, complain because.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah right, yeah right, No I don't because I wrote
it down and I was awful.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
And sometimes even so, I'll look back at old journals
and I'll be like, who was this girl writing?
Speaker 4 (51:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Who was this person? Like, thank you Jesus for not
letting me stay there. I guess that's true. I should
have catch all my old journals. I'm like, oh gosh,
please Lord. The immaturity is you know, it's real cute
if you're someone else. Yeah, right, oh my goodness. Okay,
well is there. How old can we so we can
(51:53):
get the book on Amazon? How can we get in
touch with you or follow you? Or website all that stuff?
So you can follow me on Instagram. It's my Comfort Journey.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And then I also have a website, mycomfort Journey dot com, so.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
We offer prayer there.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
If you want to get connected to a newsletter, you
can do that there at the website. But I'm posting
content on the regular, just talking about every day walking
through grief with God and how we can do that.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
I love your content. Your content is so good, thank you, Fred.
And it looks I always love seeing your graphics. I
don't like you forget that word of graphics. Graphics are
so good. It's like visually appealing. And then I like,
actually read it and I'm like, oh, that's so good.
Just ten out of ten follow my Comfort Journey on Instagram.
(52:45):
So good. Well, thank you so much for being here
and sharing your story and sharing Graham with us. What
an honor to know him and his life through you
and your work. It is powerful and it is a blessing.
Thank you friend to be here.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
We did it.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
We did it. Thank y'all so much for joining us
today for this heartfelt and intentional conversation about grief and
mourning and the process that we walk through with God.
We have any questions at all or comments or just
want to say hi, you can reach us through email
at Sup Sup Sup at stuff Goodnever Said dot com,
(53:26):
or you can find us online at www dot stuff
Goodnever Said dot com.
The Bible tells us to rejoice with those who rejoice,
and mourn with those who mourn, And so when we
talk about walking through grief with others, we're to align
ourselves with the positioning that the person who is closest
to the situation how they're positioning their heart. Some of
(00:21):
the most meaningful and heartfault words that people spoke to
me were, you know what, I don't know what to say, really,
but my heart's breaking with you. I just want you
to know I'm here for you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, guys so much for coming back for another
episode of stuff God never said. Today, I am going
to be talking with my precious friend and one of
my personal heroes, Natalie Weadman. She has incredible insight to
biblical grief. She has an beautiful testimony of the Father's
provision of comfort in unthinkable times. And I am so
(00:58):
excited to have this conversation and with her. It's going
to be hard. It might be triggering. We do talk
about child loss and I can't even say that without
tearing up. So thank you so much for being here. Yes,
thank you for having me. I'm so pumped for this time.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Like you said, it's going to be hard, but it's
also going to be good. And I think a lot
of people are going to get some hope for their
their own grief journeys.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, and probably also hope for other people's grief journeys
that they're trying to walk through with. Yes, and have
no idea what to do because I feel like a big,
a big thing with grief for anyone. But like my
perspective from Christians, from believers is like this is sticky.
(01:44):
I don't want to say the wrong thing, so I'm
not going to say anything or I'm just going to
say this thing, this cliche I heard that shouldn't be
said necessarily. Yes, and I want to be part of
the solution to that. And you have done you already
have done some incredible work towards that and towards like
(02:05):
teaching like don't shy away from grief, and here's what
the Bible says about grieving and here's how God created
us to grieve, Yeah, because he did. Like God is
not like there's no shame in grief. He's not mad
at you for grieving. He's not mad at you for
being sad. He's not no punishing you or like do
you not believe in me? How dare you be sad?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
You know?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah, no, it's so true, it's not it. And I
think it's a really really common misconception about God and
his character.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so right, almost like we get so focused on promise, yeah,
that we forget there's a process to get there. And
I think I think that process part is the hardest
for us to walk through personally, but also for other
people to come alongside us and walk with us, because
it's so messy. We like cut and dry things, we
(02:59):
like microwave of solutions, and the Bible tells us to
rejoice with those who rejoice, and mourn with those who mourn.
And so when we talk about walking through grief with others,
we're to align ourselves with the positioning that the person
who is closest to the situation, how they're positioning their heart.
(03:23):
And so if they are in that place where they're
just in sackcloth and ashes, we're supposed to get in
there with them.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
And sometimes we.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Feel like we have to be there with the right words,
we have to say all these things.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
But honestly, it's presence.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
I remember, you know, in the aftermath of losing our son,
some of the most meaningful and heartfault words that people
spoke to me were you know what, I don't know
what to say, really, but my heart's breaking with you.
I just want you to know I'm here for you
and I'm going to be here for you. And so
that's all. You don't have to have words. You just
(04:00):
have to be present and align yourself with the person
who is closest to the to the loss.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, that's really I mean I feel like we could
just be like, Okay, great, have a great day at
that point, like if I don't want to say if
there's one thing, but that's a very important thing. And
even Job talks about that.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
The book of Job was like his friends show up
and they don't say a word for seven days, and
they were a comfort to him, Yes, and then they
started talking again and then they started using words and
they were not comforting anymore. No, it's like, oh, where's
your secret sin?
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Right?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Anyway, we'll get to that later, but tell us, tell
us your story. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
So, my husband, Jesse and I have been married for
fifteen years and about five years in we had a son.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
His name was Graham. And just to tell you a
little bit about our background.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
We both grew up in church, we were pastor's kids,
We had our own experiences with the Lord as young adults,
and so really wanted to make you know God's word
our word, and build our foundation on the Lord. And
so we brought a baby boy into that and we
were so excited because we had just laid our hands
(05:20):
on some just amazing parenting tools. One of them was
called The Power I think called about the power of
blessing your children, where it talks about speaking words of
life over your kids from the womb and as I
grow up as prayers to bless them because blessing is
what assigns identity. And so we felt like we just
(05:42):
had this amazing, wonderful plan and we're like, Lord, we're
partnering with you in this little child's life, and we
were just so excited to be parents.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Well skip forward fourteen months.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I was actually overseas on a business trip and I
got the call that my son had passed away in
the middle of the night. And my husband wasn't even
going to tell me until I got home, because what
a thing to hear. It's like every parent's worst nightmare.
(06:19):
And so I ended up rushing home, and I just
remember thinking, God, this doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
You know, there's a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
The Bible says that in this world you will have trouble,
and I think we have in our mind what kind.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Of trouble we might expect.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
You know, maybe I lost a job, didn't get that promotion,
or something else happened, but child loss was never on
the radar. And so when we found ourselves grieving and
not having any answers as to why he passed away,
it began this journey, this big valley season of our
(07:01):
lives where we had so many questions and we had
so much turmoil.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I can't even describe to you just the level of.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Just I don't want to say despair, but the emotion
is so big you literally don't know what to do
with it. Yeah, And so we found ourselves in that place,
and out of that, I mean, I did the only
thing that I knew to do, and that was run
(07:32):
to Jesus and run to the hem of his robe.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Because there was no other fix for me. There was
there was nothing else, There was nothing else for me
to do. And so I ran to Jesus, and I
ran to his word, and I said, Lord you've got
to help me.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
You have to help me. And so I.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Started digging in, and I started reading about people, you know,
like Job and Hannah and others than the Bible, who
they were in similar situations of grief. And maybe they
weren't all like mine, but there was a turmoil in
them that they didn't know what.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
To do with.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
And I began to study how they poured it out,
how they got God involved, and out of that, I've
learned this pattern of Biblical mourning, which is not this
binary model we have in Western Christianity today. You know,
it's either like you're joyful or you're sad. You know,
(08:42):
it's either you have the promise or you don't. You know,
you just don't have faith for that. It's like this beautiful, glorious,
crazy tension that Biblical culture understood back in the day,
this whole morning processing thing with God. And so I
(09:03):
began to take these principles I pulled from His word,
and I began to implement them in my life, and
I saw such wonderful release, because in mourning you have
to do both. You have to release, you have to grieve,
but you also have to position your heart to receive
and so in that process, I found such health coming
(09:26):
to my life out of that, and really it's just
been a journey ever since of continuing to walk that
journey with the Lord in the morning process.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
I love how you prayed when Graham's in your womb
over blessings. Man, I'm gonna have a really hard time
just saying anything. In our Bible study right now, we're
talking about Jacob and Esau and the difference in a
(10:02):
birthright and a blessing, and the birthright was physical and
the blessing is spiritual. And how the blessings that you've
spoken over his life and you've prayed over his life
are so vast throughout the entire world that though his
(10:22):
life was cut short, Like these things that you're taking
from God's word, these things that he has taught you
and God has allowed you to learn through his life
and share with others who desperately need need it, Like
I want to know. I want to know every detail
of what God has revealed to you through the processes
(10:43):
of grieving, the gift that He really has given us
through the process of grieving, and not this what's the
word called like like when it's on a timeline like, Okay,
(11:03):
how long are you going to be sad for? Right?
Like your timer is up? Like you were sad, now
you're done being sad. Now you're happy. And you just
look back and think, oh, how happy I got to
have myself? Like I don't. I don't think that that's real.
Like that's not real, that's not human, that's not how
how we were designed to grieve. And I feel like,
(11:26):
I mean even in general, like life isn't doesn't work
that way. It's not like, oh it just life just
keeps getting better and happier and more and more good. No,
it's like a roller coaster. It's amazing and it's hard
and sometimes it's both at the same time. And how
do we navigate these things? And what a gift that,
like God has actually told us how right to navigate
(11:47):
these things? Does it match our culture? Though, No, it doesn't,
because we are a very linear culture. Linear that's the
what I was looking for. That's what I was looking for.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yes, it's linear, but any sort of that you go
through that's traumatic, or any sort of like loss that
affects you deeply, this stuff is cyclical. And this is
what the people of the Bible understood you know, they
were not thrown off by the fact that, Hey, I've
already prayed about this ten times, But here I am again, Lord,
(12:19):
I need your help again. I need your help still
because your emotions present themselves in new ways. There's seasons
of life that change, and so we have to almost
mentally prepare and have the revelation that I'm going to
be in some level of processing my entire life, and
that in itself can feel a little depressing, maybe because
(12:43):
we like to think cut and dry.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yep, I'm done with that now. How many more months?
Speaker 1 (12:47):
How many more months am I going to be in
this stage before I move on to the next.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But I think we just have to be ready.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
To enter the cycle at any moment and lean into it.
And that's where God meets us and we don't have
to have, you know it, say God, you know, here's
your promise. I'm going to pretend like I'm not sad
because I know your promise. Yeah, we still have to
process with him, and that's the messy stuff that we
don't tip it like.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, And you know what, something I love about the
Bible is that, like today, I feel like we often
try to remind God like oh, you promise this, or
I think, or even if we think, we promise, like,
we try to remind him of our promises, of his
promises to us. But throughout his word, he is reminding us.
(13:35):
He is reminding his people. He's reminding Abraham, he's reminding
Jacob and Isaac. He's reminding them of his promises. Yes,
and this isn't. I feel like so many people look
at the word and they're like, oh, it's a rule book.
I'm like, no, dude, it's a love story. It's a
love story from a father who loves his kids and
has not forgotten them. Even when we feel like, oh,
(13:57):
this bad thing happened, you must have forgotten us, you
must have looked away, you must have been paying attention
somewhere else. But he continually comes back and he reminds
us of his promises. Yes to us, And those promises
are not only good things are gonna happen to you.
Those promises are not. You know, if you don't sin,
(14:20):
you won't have bad stuff, right if you're a good girl, Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
That's everything's gonna work out just the way you want
it to. And that's just yeah, it's not the story.
Life is imperfect. There's sin in the world, you know,
there's things that we just can't control. And so it
isn't about it isn't about the perfect picture that we envision. Yeah,
it's it's who we are in and through really tough
situations because of who He is in us.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
And that's the point. Yeah, it is, And it's a
really hard point for our linear minds, yes, to wrap around.
And I feel like it's honestly, one of the things
I hear most often from non believers' is like, oh, well,
if God is good, if God is real, then why
do bad things happen? Which is such a layered, such
(15:07):
a laired question. But even from the beginning, like when
sin entered the world, like sin took over, the enemy
took over. We have free will. That is not a combination,
not a good combination now that we can handle without him,
you know, like sin and darkness are in our world.
The enemy wants to take all good things and make
(15:30):
them bad. But the loving father that God is doesn't
just let it end there. Yeah, he doesn't let it
end on like all all good things become bad. No,
but all beauty or all ashes will turn to beauty. Yes,
from the bad thing, because a loving father isn't just
like yeah, I know sin right, but through you? Oh
(15:56):
my goodness, Okay, I would love to know with out
giving away, like everything that's in your book, which we'll
talk about a minute, I would love to know, like,
what are some of the processes that you have, the
patterns and processes you've seen in the Bible, and how
I love when you share things about what is going
on in your brain and your body and what Scripture
(16:17):
says you need to do and how those two things
go together. Yes, like this thing is it's like science
more and more proves God's word to be sure, like
every single day, and I think this is this is
such a beautiful picture of that. How you're like, if
we do what the Bible says, this is what our
brain and body are doing. Yeah, oh absolutely So anyway,
(16:41):
I would love for you to speak into a little
bit of that as much as you're comfy with. Oh absolutely.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
So.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I talked about the patterns, the patterns of biblical mourning
and how that is like the unlocker of God given
comfort and so there was this pattern that I observed
from scripture. So we can go and see and lamentations
even like places like Second Chronicles where people start off
really honest with the Lord. It's like these four things.
(17:11):
It's honesty, it's lament, it's promise, and then thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
So all throughout Scripture, I.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Saw that pattern of grieve more and receive, grain more,
grieve more and receive, and we have to start with
that honest place. And that's exactly where David and so
many others started with the Lord said God. He would
say some very blunt and stark things to the Lord, God,
you have forsaken me. And when we read it we
(17:42):
think of it as like poetry or something, but this
was someone who had real, raw grief that they were
pouring out before the Lord. And so we always have
to start with honesty, How am I really feeling? And
I think that's actually we that's actually where we lose
it almost immediately. Sometimes in our grief more and received
(18:04):
process is because we feel like we should be beyond things,
or or because we know a promise it should automatically
make us feel better or different on the inside. But
we get to the promise through processing with the Lord.
And so starting with honesty, pouring it out to the Lord,
(18:25):
telling him the things that you don't like telling the
things that you don't understand and saying, Lord, I'm really
struggling with this. I need your help making that connection
with him. So you pour it out.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
And then you move into the promise.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Like if you read Psalms, David would always come full circle.
He would start really honest and really blunt, God, where
are you? Darkness is my closest friend. He would get
pretty depressing, but then at the end he would say Lord.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
He would say the equivalent of Lord.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
All that said, this is who I I know you
to be, this is your character, and this is who
I'm counting on you to be. And then at the
end it was like the bow on top. He would
end with thanksgiving. So it became like this full cycle
mourning process. And so often we get prescriptive with one
or the other, like we really lean into you just
(19:19):
got to be honest about the depression, and you got
to be honest about all the things that just really stink.
But we never take it full circle, and so we
never access I feel like we don't access fully the
measure of comfort that God wants to pour out on
us because we don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
How to mourn.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, and that comes to stuff God never said, because
he never said, blessed are those who have bad feelings
because of trauma, tragedy, or loss. He said, Blessed are
those who mourn, for they will be comforted. We have
to learn how to mourn biblically if we want to
access God's comfort.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Hmmm, that's so accurate. And even even in talking culture wise,
it I feel like I think, I mean, this is
not that everybody does this thing, but it's so common
now to go through something traumatic, get prescribed something for
(20:22):
the intense feelings, plan to get it all, get off
of that when it's less intense. Yeah, and then and
then like go on living life, and I and and
is that necessary sometimes? Maybe? Probably? I don't know, like
I can. I am not speaking for everyone, I am
not speaking for every situation, but I I see that.
I mean, I mean I experienced that with my self
(20:45):
and with our story through infertility. My doctors would regularly
ask me infertility is hard. Do you want to be
put on something? And I'm like, no, I don't want
to be put on something that's probably just gonna mess
up my fertility horse right, yeah, help me up. I
just want you to listen to me, you know. But
but I think that's a really really good point that
(21:07):
the process of mourning is uncomfy, and with I think
probably with just about anything, uncomfy is where the comforter
meets us.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Yeah, that's a great point. That's exactly where he meets us. Yeah,
but we have to lean in, you know, we can't
shy away were we are so used to. We're paint
avoiding creatures, which is natural, but there there gets to
be a point in the process where entering into the honesty,
(21:40):
the morning, the lament, and all the wonderful things that
God pours out after as you process through, it's it's
like this, it's this wonderful and glorious thing. It's it
truly is this blessed thing. And I think if we
could tap into that as as society, our grief experience,
(22:03):
our post traumatic experience, would be completely different, because then
we know what to do with our turmoil. Our turmoil
is supposed to be plugged in somewhere. Yeah, and I
actually made a post about this a couple of months ago,
but I talked about is your grief grounded? Because we
(22:23):
all have you know, plugins at home outlet outlets in
the wall at home, and there is a grounding prong
in all of our plugins that we need so that
extra electricity can come out of the appliance so something
doesn't catch on fire.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Is that that third little progress? I never knew what
that was. I thought it was just to hold it
up to the grounding one. This is the grounding one.
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
So when we have all of this pent up turmoil,
the problem that we run into is we don't have
a place to plug it in.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
We just shove it, yep. And we sometimes can use
the word of God to do that.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
You know, we stayed to promise and say I shouldn't
feel this way and then shove it. But if we
pour it out, if we enter into that biblical mourning cycle,
then we come full circle.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
We pour it out to the Lord.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
We do speak the promise because the Word is our foundation,
and then we thank Him for who He's going to
be in our journey with us. So it's so important
to do the full to be grounded in Him as
we're seeking to process deep internal turmoil.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, can you speak into I know you can't. Some
of what happens in our mind, in our brain, and
in our body when we do that cycle. Mm hmm.
It is.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
It is the most practically supernatural process that you could
probably ever enter into, because you start at a place
of overwhelm. And everybody has their own version of this.
And I will be the first to say that loss
of a loved one is not the only grief place.
(24:10):
So it can be a fertility journey experience. It can
be loss of a relationship, a divorce, just the rug
of life being pulled out from under you. So whatever
that thing is for you, it overwhelms your body and
your mind. Everyone goes through that. So what you do,
(24:31):
if it is so important?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
You can stew in it.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
You know, you can put a band aid over it,
say I shouldn't feel this way, or you can pour
it out, or you can self medicate, as we talked about,
you know, and so and again, you know this stuff,
even like medication.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
It's meant to be our help, not our hope.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
And that's something that I heard Carlos Whittaker say, and
I thought it was so profound because we can't think
of that as an answer or a crutch. We have
to we have to take what's happening in here in
our body, in our mind, and we have to plug
it in somewhere, and that is in the biblical morning cycle.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
That's so good. I feel like I'm like trying to
mentally keep up because I am one, like probably all humans,
I struggle with grief even though I've walked it, even
though you know I have felt it and I've walked
it with friends. I'm I'm so quick to be like,
how can we be better? I'm like, okay, so give
(25:40):
me the solution for grief, right, you know, I'm like,
can you can you tell me the three step process
and how long it takes to be done grieving And
it's just it's you know, it's not that and our
and our bodies aren't meant to work that way. That
sounds very robotic when you think about it, like sad mode,
(26:00):
happy mode, Okay, all done, Like that's in the past.
But that's it's the cyclical. The cyclical nature of grief
is where I feel like a lot of well, where
I feel like I get stuck, like I'm ready for
a timeline. I'm ready for I want to know what
the triggers will be. I want to know how to
(26:21):
avoid them, even though like a trigger might be a
good thing. Two to like, remind you of where you've come,
how far you've come, how God has carried you through. Yes,
and this brings up you look like you have something
you want to say. Yeah, this brings uff a really good.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Saying because in that process, it's not only important to
talk about how you feel, but it's important to talk
about how you feel about how you feel. That's so
many feelings, right, but what do you feel about how
I feel? Okay, because what I ran into in my
(27:02):
grief processing is God, I feel this way, but I
actually hate feeling this way. I don't understand why I
feel this way. I don't want to feel this way.
And so taking that conversation that happens in our head,
even just what you were saying right now about triggers,
(27:25):
and I'm ready for a timeline. I'm ready for some
of this stuff to be wrapped up. These are all
things that we have to make part of our conversation
with the Lord.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And it's so funny, it's so simple. When you think
about it, you're like, oh, well, duh, of course.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
But we have all these conversations in our heads and
even with other people, but we don't actually tell him
because we don't feel like it's worth mentioning. But it's
so important to talk about how you feel, but also
how you feel about how you feel, because you will
find him going into that place too. He will meet
you there too, He will answer you there too.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
And so I love that you.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Mentioned that because that's also a very important element of
grieving is your feelings. Absolutely, your basic emotions, your rude emotions, but.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Even how you feel about that.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You know, which will vary from person to person because
of our unique backgrounds, how we grew up, you know,
religious trappings still on us sometimes, you know, not bad things.
It's just like we have these certain lenses that we're
looking at our own lives with and sometimes we just
need to be reminded. Whoa step back for a second,
(28:40):
you know, make this part of the conversation with God
because he wants to hear that, and he wants to
meet us there.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
That's so good. And I really relate to how what
you were, what you had you'd said it a few times.
I shouldn't feel this way. I should be at this point.
And I think with that misconception of grief and mourning,
we can be really hard on ourselves about grieving and mourning. Yes,
(29:11):
and and feeling how you feel about how you feel
when the shouldn't part is like shame that you're bringing
into yourself about right your grieving process. Yes, yeah, and
so let's go ahead and cancel that. Yes, let's get
that out of here, because there is no shame right
(29:36):
on you, especially for grieving. There is no I mean,
maybe there is a should and shouldn't of, like how
to you know, maybe don't like get destructive with it
and getting don't get crazy or anything, but like you're sad,
be sad, yeah, be sad. Yeah, if you're sad and
happy together at the same time, do that do it? Yeah? Yeah?
(30:00):
That should That should and shouldn't mentality is really really
hard to break, I think just generally speaking, like I
shouldn't do this, I should, but it's I feel like
there's an extra layer of it too, when you're should
and shouldn't ing your feelings right, which I am so
(30:20):
guilty of. I shouldn't let this make me be sad. No, No,
I'm stronger than that, or like, I'm not going to
give this power over me. But even in a conversation
I had earlier today with someone, this was the Holy
Spirit because I had. I was having that conversation with him,
like I shouldn't let this let me be, make me sad,
Like I should not allow this power over me. I
(30:42):
said that to got into myself, and and he said
something so sweet to me. But but in that he said, this,
this wound is it's not you giving someone else power.
It's a gift. It's a gift to you to deepen
(31:05):
your empathy, to deepen what I have for you, to
deepen your calling to and most importantly, to deepen your
relationship with me and your walk with me right now,
right now. And I was like, thank you Jesus that
I'm sad. Yeah, And I don't like to be sad,
like at all. I really like to not be sad.
That's my favorite thing to have a different things. But
(31:26):
if I can thank him for sorrow and thank him
for grief and thank him for tears, it's not because
of denial. It's because he is good in all my feelings. Yes,
he is good in all my seasons. Yes. And he
is a loving father in every stage of the process.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Well, and even just you speaking it out loud is
so huge because we get caught in this cycle usually
of you know, I should do better, the shame thing
like you were talking about, and it's all internal and
you know, have you ever have you ever had thoughts
like fly through your mind You're like, I should think
better thought Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Literally the other day my husband was cold plunging and
I was like, hey, should I be doing like way
more than I'm doing And he was like what. I
was like, I don't know. It just feels like I
should be doing a lot better than i'm doing. And
he was like, no, you're good, and I was like, okay, okay, cool.
Just had a quick panic about everything always, but I'm
better now, right, Like those shoulds well, just yeah, they'll
(32:31):
get you, yes, which is why.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
You do have to speak them out loud to the Lord.
You know, you do have to engage in that process
of communication with him, because just thinking oh, I should
do better, I should think better thoughts, I should feel differently,
that's not going to change you from the inside out.
The outpouring will, though, yeah, the talking, the communication will.
(32:53):
So it's so important to bring those things out into
the open with the Lord.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, And even as you're saying that, I feel like
the should are almost always the extra image things what
have I learned to display? What is okay to be seen?
What is okay to be known? Yeah? And what should
I be doing? Like, what is the on paper process
(33:18):
of how this should be going? I feel like we
need to come up with a phrase about getting shoulds.
I don't know, there's something will come to me.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
But like I heard once, if I heard once someone say,
don't should on me?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Yes, that's perfect. So we need to stop shooting ourselves.
Can I say that that's so good?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
There it is. I thank you Jesus for that, because
that's that's so good. Don't should on me? I love it.
I love it. And I feel like we do that
to ourselves all the time, the should should should, should?
Speaker 4 (34:02):
Should?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Tell me?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Absolutely? Because you know, we want, we want to do
what's right. We want to do it comes from a
heart that wants to right, a sincere heart. Yeah, and so,
but sometimes we can be our own worst task masters
in that respect. We just yeah, we get into that
shame blame cycle when really, you know, we we do
(34:26):
need a process with the Lord, and we do need
people in our lives will tell us listen.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
No, yeah, yeah, I'm telling you right now, no yeah,
And we need to hear that too. Yeah, other people,
it's time to get out and do something just for
right now. Yeah, Yes, I definitely I can see that.
I feel like I'm that person though, and I'm always like,
is this is this an okay time for me to
like can we do something fun? Is that okay?
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (34:53):
You play a valuable role in everybody's story.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
I just need to not do it too soon or
say you should get out and do something. But so,
can you touch on any physical things that may come
with grief, like body responses, anxiety depression, that type of
thing and how it can look in grieving.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Yeah, I can present it a lot of different ways,
so it could be you know, anxiety depression migrains constant
tension in your body. One of the things that one
of the places God really ministered to me after we
lost our son was I had these constant knots in
(35:42):
my stomach where I just felt nauseous all the time
and I couldn't really eat. I was losing weight. And
the Lord actually saw me in that place. I'll never forget.
I was in a church service and someone randomly there
they were praying for me and randomly switched gears in
(36:04):
the middle of their prayer and they said, I command
the knots in your stomach to be released in Jesus' name,
And from that moment that absolutely went away.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I could eat normally.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
So there's there's a lot of different bodily things that
can happen.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I don't know if I mentioned.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Migraines, just job pain and tension. I mean, just think
about when your when your bodily system is overwhelmed with stress,
people shut down in different ways, and so learning to
recognize when that's happening and not seeing it as an enemy,
because I think sometimes we make our bodies the enemy, yeah,
(36:45):
when really they're just the hosts for the fallout of
what is what's happened, things that has happened to you,
things that are going on in your mind, just being
overwhelmed in your senses and so leaning and leaning into
the Lord even and that is so important, and just
not feeling shame around resting and taking the time that
(37:10):
you need to soak in his presence to get the
proper nutrition, you know, to get the rest that you need.
And sometimes sometimes like I mentioned, you do need help.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
You know, you need help.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
You need a doctor to prescribe you something you need
to go talk to somebody, You need friends to get
around and pray for you or annoint you with oil.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
You know.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
So to me, there's so many tools in the tool belt,
but we can't be afraid of how our body responds
naturally to triggers, yeah, to things that bother us, to
things that are overwhelming to us. And as we get
used to leaning into that and not pushing ourselves too hard,
(37:55):
not being a task master in our own minds, as
we do that, those things start to normalize. The highs
won't feel so high, the lows won't feel so low.
But yeah, I would say, just taking it as it comes,
however it presents itself. Yeah, and just saying, Okay, this
(38:18):
is what I'm dealing with today. Lord, you're in this
with me. We're partnering together.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, you know, what.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Do I need to do today? And so that's the
biggest thing too, is learning what you need to do today? Yeah,
don't think about tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Yeah. And I feel like early in early in stages
of grief and trauma response, it can't even be today.
It can be like, what do I need to do
in the next one minute? Yeah? Right, did I brush
my teeth. Yes, I heard that this may be relevant
but may not be. But I heard it described once
(38:54):
as like your brain is like a filing system. Something happens,
it knows where to file it. Something new happens and
knows where to file it. Basic basic things like brush
you Oh, I just woke up. It's time to brush
my teeth and brush my hair. But when and so
all those things have a place to be filed. And
then trauma happens and there's no place to file it
(39:14):
because it never should have happened. So your brain like
freezes there and doesn't know. And then you have all
the other things just stacking on top of that thing
that can't be filed because you have this one unfilable,
violable thing. And so before you're processing the trauma or
(39:37):
able to or go through the process of grieving and morning,
it's like everything else gets just stuck. There's nowhere to
file anything. Yeah, that's a great point. And I don't
know if if that is like one true for everybody,
but I have I have felt that in you know,
miscarriage and neck topic and failed and all the shower
(39:59):
becomes very hard, very hard, or like what what is next?
Like there's a I'm not necessarily a person who wants
to be told what to do in most cases, but
there there was a time where I was like, I
need you to tell me what to do, like all day,
I just need I need, you know, my husband to
be like, hey, it's time to to feed the baby,
(40:23):
or I don't know why, I guess I wouldn't have
had a baby. So yeah, I'm already back. Eat there
you go, eat ahead and eat like I can't think
of anything. But but that process is so beautiful and
so important and and I know God does not want
us to stay there in trauma brain, not being able
(40:48):
to function from one thing after further that that will
be a season yeah, of normalization. Yes, yeah, as you get.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
Used to even the sensation of grief. But like you said,
I think that's such a great visual. You know, you
have this one thing that happens, and then everything else
in life just stacks on top of it. He helps
us with that thing at the bottom. Yeah, you know,
And so it takes time. Yeah, I mean we like
(41:20):
to poop pooh the idea that time heals, and I
agree time alone does not heal, but you do need
some time, yes, And just get used to the sensation
of being overwhelmed at times. Yeah, because it will happen.
But he's so faithful to be there, minute by minute
whatever we need right now and at any moment, you
(41:40):
can pull him into it, and I would tell him
that too.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Lord, I'm pulling you into this.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
You said you were going to be a friend that
sticks closer than a brother, That's what you said. So
I'm expecting you to be that for me right now.
How you do that, how you show up, that's completely
up to you.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Maybe I just feel different, or maybe I don't feel
different at all. Maybe it's it's me making this declaration
that I'm depending on you in this moment. But whatever
it is, you can grab on to them.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
In that moment, in that minute. Yeah, it's so good.
Tell me about your book. Oh gosh, the book book
and a devotional. It is book, and.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
I also do have devotionals as well, more than one devotional. Yes, okay,
so it's it's basically for the devotional. It's all the
same cover. It's just a journaling a journaling outlet. That's
something that I actually started in grief that I really
was super snobby about beforehand. I was like journaling. There
(42:45):
was never a journal that I went back to there
that I was like, you were an idiot.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
I just burn.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
So but but it became a way to release and
also to record the ways that the Lord was speaking
to me, ministering to me. And so I wanted to
create that same outlet for other people because what mine
turned into is some of the content in Creative Comfort.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
And the book.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
The book itself is called creative Comfort because creative creative
Comfort so cute.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
Because as as we mourn, as we agree with God.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I think the thing that surprised me the most is
how creative and how much he surprised me in that
process because as I learned to let go of control,
so I was entering fully into the Biblical Morning process.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
I was expecting him to show up as the comforter
for me. But I completely released control of what that
looked like.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I had no thought in my brain, like God, you
need to show up for me like this, I need
someone to give me a word.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I need to be encouraged. Today.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
I just knew I'm going to do these I'm going
to mourn with you, Lord, and how you show up
as the creator of the universe in my journey is
entirely up to you. And so what this does is
it it documents the ways that God creatively ministered to
me as I mourned with him. And I am also
(44:19):
a very practical person, and so I also map out,
you know, these these are the steps, this is the
process that you enter into. And again, the Word is
our foundation. So it's chock full of the Word of God.
I'm pulling straight from scripture. It's just that sometimes we
need the Holy Spirit to.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
Breathe on the word we already know.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
And so for a lot of people, people have told
me that these are all things I knew, but there
was just such fresh revelation that it'd be it's something
I could apply today. I also go through all the questions,
you know, that I personally had when I was walking
(45:02):
through grief, because there's a lot of questions, theological questions
and other kinds of questions.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
And so I go through how to.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
Even process these questions that we have that feel like
deal breaker questions, you know, because we've all seen other
people walk through trauma and loss and grief, and some
people you can look at and you can say, wow,
you know, God really brought new life out of that
somehow that's the miracle of how he works. And then
(45:35):
in other examples you're like, oh gosh, like your heart
breaks because it ends in something destructive in their lives.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
And so how we.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Process through these questions that we have that is actually
what makes or breaks this grief journey. So we can't
be afraid to ask the questions, explore the questions, sit
in the question, and wait on the Lord to answer us.
And you know what, sometimes he won't. He won't answer
us about specific questions, but he will always answer with
(46:10):
his presence.
Speaker 2 (46:12):
And that is what I've found in this journey. It's
it's kind.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Of probably scattered the way I'm explaining it, but it
has just been such a wonderful journey of learning him
and who he is as a comforter and being able
to document that for somebody else who is looking who
they feel stuck or they want practical steps, you know,
(46:36):
they want they want to do this journey with him.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
So that book is for those people. Amazing. Where can
we get this book? Creative Comfort?
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Creative Comfort is on Amazon exclusively, so oh we can
find it there. So Amazon, Yes, it's called Emma Shoud
again creative comfort where grief meets God. It's got a
beautiful I feel like even the covers like very creative
and beauty.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
And I love that it's a tree. Yes, oh my gosh,
I of right, just miss baby. I love it so much.
And the journaling thing is so important. I fight journaling
a lot. I just don't want to. And if I'm
being really honest, I don't want to because I don't
really want to talk about at all how I'm feeling.
Oh that's funny. I really don't like. I don't want
(47:21):
to talk about it with myself. I don't want to
talk about God. I just like, just fix it right right? Oh,
I don't love it. But one of the things we
were we were recently talking and teaching on Abraham and
how when God called Abram out of Canaan, he most
(47:41):
likely was not a believer, but he heard God's voice
and he followed it, and whenever God met him somewhere,
he built an altar. So he God said, hey, get up, go.
He immediately got up and went. And God wasn't even
he didn't even say the full promise at that point.
He said, hey, get up and go somewhere. I'm gonna
tell you. I'm gonna tell you about and he was
(48:04):
just like, okay, cool, sign me up. That like immediate
obedience always blows my mind because I'm like, I hear
you saying list but like, show me more, reveal more
to me first, and then I might go like, I
am so guilty of that. And but but as far
as journaling, this is tying together in a second. But
(48:27):
God shows up, he builds an altar. God showed up
multiple times and would give him the next step and
the next step and the next step. He would give
him exactly what he needed for the next step. And
when God showed up to Abram, he built an altar. Yeah,
and so he as he's going, you keep seeing him
with his next step of obedience, his next step of faith.
(48:47):
He builds the altar. And then he gets to a
point and you're in the story and you're like, is
he gonna do this crazy thing God's asking him to do?
And like how's he feeling? Is he scared? Is he afraid?
Is he what? What's going on? And you stop and think,
at that point, this man who's hearing God's voice and
(49:08):
seeking God's voice, his life looks nothing like probably how
he imagined it. He left every like it's so so
against the plan of what he probably thought, and every
opportunity when he gets instructions, he has a choice to
make an obedience or not right. But to make the connection,
(49:34):
he is able to look back at all the altars
he's built and all the times God has shown up
for him, and he as he looks forward into the unknown,
how in the world could he possibly think that God's
going to leave him hanging there?
Speaker 1 (49:48):
Right?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
And I take that as Audrey, you need a journal.
You need to build that altar right where you are.
You need to remember what God has done for you.
You need to remember absolutely how you had no idea
where you were going or what you were doing. Yes,
you didn't know up from down, left from right, you
(50:10):
know nothing, and you were scared and alone and afraid,
and He showed up for you. Don't let yourself forget it,
that build that altered. Don't forget journal in the book. Yeah,
because the more you do that, the more you're going
to walk forward into the unknown and be able to
look back and say, look at all the times he
showed up for me. He's not going to just stop
(50:31):
showing up for me now, right, he's not. He didn't
forget me, then he's not going to forget me now, yes,
And I have to carry that with me to make
myself journal my feelings.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Right.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I heard someone say once they said the key to
future victories is remembering your past victories.
Speaker 2 (50:49):
Oh that's really good, being thankful for those.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
And we always overestimate our memory abilities.
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Oh always, So I absolutely agree.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
I think writing them down is a way you set
up that altar to the Lord and say, Lord, I
remember what you've done. I'm not going to forget your goodness,
because when we forget, that's when we, like the Israelites,
we start complaining or yeah, grumbling, complain because.
Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah right, yeah right, No I don't because I wrote
it down and I was awful.
Speaker 4 (51:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
And sometimes even so, I'll look back at old journals
and I'll be like, who was this girl writing?
Speaker 4 (51:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Who was this person? Like, thank you Jesus for not
letting me stay there. I guess that's true. I should
have catch all my old journals. I'm like, oh gosh,
please Lord. The immaturity is you know, it's real cute
if you're someone else. Yeah, right, oh my goodness. Okay,
well is there. How old can we so we can
(51:53):
get the book on Amazon? How can we get in
touch with you or follow you? Or website all that stuff?
So you can follow me on Instagram. It's my Comfort Journey.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And then I also have a website, mycomfort Journey dot com, so.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
We offer prayer there.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
If you want to get connected to a newsletter, you
can do that there at the website. But I'm posting
content on the regular, just talking about every day walking
through grief with God and how we can do that.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
I love your content. Your content is so good, thank you, Fred.
And it looks I always love seeing your graphics. I
don't like you forget that word of graphics. Graphics are
so good. It's like visually appealing. And then I like,
actually read it and I'm like, oh, that's so good.
Just ten out of ten follow my Comfort Journey on Instagram.
(52:45):
So good. Well, thank you so much for being here
and sharing your story and sharing Graham with us. What
an honor to know him and his life through you
and your work. It is powerful and it is a blessing.
Thank you friend to be here.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
We did it.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
We did it. Thank y'all so much for joining us
today for this heartfelt and intentional conversation about grief and
mourning and the process that we walk through with God.
We have any questions at all or comments or just
want to say hi, you can reach us through email
at Sup Sup Sup at stuff Goodnever Said dot com,
(53:26):
or you can find us online at www dot stuff
Goodnever Said dot com.
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