September 3, 2024 • 43 mins
SumerSports Director of Football Operations, and former Atlanta Falcons General Manager, Thomas Dimitroff and his co-host, Lindsay Rhodes, discuss the state of the Wide Receiver market and the signings that happened this summer.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I believe in having one and two being complete difference makers.
And I am a big believer in a one A
and a one B. However, you look at it and
then you have a three who can be good and
a four who can be good. But to sit there
and think I'm not going to spend my money on
a one in a two which can be game breakers
and playmakers, That's not how I personally believe teams should
(00:23):
be built.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome, Welcome to another edition of the Sumer Sports Show.
Lindsay r Oads and Thomas de Mittrof back with you again.
Getting ready for week one. Thomas, it's here. There are
gonna be games played in a mirror matter of hours,
now days, just a couple of days. How excited are
we engaging the temperature in the room. You don't look excited.
I'd like more excitement. I'd like you to match my excitement.
(00:50):
We've got football games coming up.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Look, I am wildly excited. I was spending a lot
of time this weekend, as you know, watching a lot
of NCAA. It got me propped up a little bit
and one excited. Look, I'm we're going to talk, as
you know, about the topic. We're going to talk about.
And I love that topic because I think it is
an important, extremely important part of team building on leave.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Such a tease, such a tease, such a teas about
the topic that we're going to talk about. It is
wide receiver contracts. And yes, there is lots to talk
about in that regard. Particularly, I mean from a news
cycle standpoint, Jamar Chase suddenly the holdout that is kind
of the last one standing, it would appear, and questions
(01:35):
abounding about whether or not he will be on the
field on Sunday. He wants an extension. He hasn't practiced
all training camp. He is still not. Look, you wouldn't
know better than me. My read of this, sitting where
I sit is install is tomorrow they're going to get
this done. Maybe this will be outdated by the time
(01:57):
that the podcast even drops, because like I feel like
this it has to be a matter of minutes. Don't
you feel like they must feel like the clock is
ticking and they want to get them on board Prior
to tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I think they've been thinking the clock has been ticking
for a while. You know. The general manager of their owner,
mister Brown, has been very outspoken that he does in fact,
want to get this done. Everyone wants to get this done.
Head coach Duke Tobin, the entire staff. Look, you want
your people in place going into that first Like you
mentioned install, there's nothing more uncertain and unnerving when your
(02:29):
team isn't together. Right, you're like and as a team builder,
you're always thinking, even though you have to answer to
your owner, you're thinking, let's get the damn thing done.
I don't care if it's a few million dollars more.
Let's get it done. It is outrageously important.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So all of the other wide receivers have signed, right, Like,
there were a bunch that got new deals this offseason,
and we'll talk about them. But CD signed his last week,
and so any outstanding information that you might need in
order to get this Jamar Chase deal done, Let's say
it's Chase's camp saying like we're waiting until everyone we're
going to be the last one. We're gonna up them
by at least a dollar. We're going to be the
highest paid wide receiver come this season. That happened a
(03:05):
week ago. What might the holdup be?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Remember, I mean there are two parties here. Everyone wants
to think, Okay, the team needs to get this done.
This is bs et cetera, et cetera. Whatever the banter
is out there. But again, you have an agent and
you have a player, and you have that side of
the discussion quietly, which we never try to air our
dirty laundry as general managers, right and as teams. And
(03:29):
yet inside a lot of times there are some issues
that you're dealing with or many times with the agent
and the player and the game playing. That's just the
way it is. It is business. Everyone understands that. But
you just have to understand as an outsider that there
could be myriad issues that you're dealing with. It's not
just the ap y, it's not just the three year cash.
There could be other elements that you're dealing with. And look,
(03:51):
as we said, mister Brown has mentioned that he wants
to get this done. That is a known fact. I mean,
the guy is unbelievably talented. We know where Chase is
on the line. I personally would pay him one dollar
more than anyone else right now the way it is,
if not more, of course, and we can talk about that.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, I mean that's so thirty five a year is
the highest average per year. That's Justin Jefferson. Ceedee Lamb
came in just under that at thirty four per no
doubt that this is in your mind probably right, that
this is going to come in just ahead of Justin Jefferson.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's what I'm thinking. I mean, he warrants it. I mean,
these guys are all fantastic receivers. I'm sitting there choking
back a little bit here looking at our deal with
Julio back when it was twenty two million, and looking
at this group. It's unbelievable when you look at the
top ten or twelve, looking at not there's some very
talented players in there, but it's amazing. I was changed.
We know that. And you look at Jamar Chase and
(04:49):
you think about how he runs up and down the field,
stop start. Everything that is positive about this guy is
what you want in that number one receiver to build
along the way with. You know, again they have t Higgins.
I mean, I'm really excited for this team offensively, right,
get everything rolling, get your quarterback healthy, and just rip
this around the field and tear it up with these guys.
(05:12):
But of course you have to get Jamar on the field.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, And they brought in Jermaine Burton in the off season,
so they have a little bit of maneuverability with t
Higgins pushing that one toward the future. Let's go back
to your Julio Jones experience, because that kind of sets
the table here. You absolutely know what it's like to
be in that room trying to figure out whether or
not to pay a wide receiver top dollar and what
(05:36):
that does to your build. And so what are some
of the I mean, at this point, I think we
all agree and you have said that you know they're
going to pay Jamar Chase in this particular case. It's
an interesting situation because they also have the highest paid
quarterback in the NFL in terms of apy. You walk
me through this as somebody who's been in this seat before,
trying to weigh pros and cons.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
What are they Well, look, I and this is what
I mentioned a little bit earlier. You have a lot
going on within that conversation. It's not just ap wise,
not just three year it is there are elements of it.
I mean, these players could be coming in talking about
how am I going to be paid? And this came
up and it was public when Julio Jones was discussing
(06:18):
the idea, is Matt Ryan really exponentially more valuable than
I am? I don't care the position or he didn't
care the position or not. It was a big discussion, right,
how how far off is that? So a guy like
Jamar Chase who comes in and is thinking, Hey, I
am a game breaker, a playmaker beyond extraordinary, et cetera,
(06:38):
et cetera, And my quarterback is making what he's making
at fifty five, and do I deserve thirty five? Do
I deserve as Jamar Chase thirty six, thirty seven or more?
Sometimes there can be discussions like that. I'm not saying
that's happening, but remember those types of conversations happen when
you have very competitive football players who know they're worth
(07:02):
to not only the team, they know their worth to
the production of the team. They know they're worth to
the to the evolution of the quarterback within the scheme.
There are so many elements there that have the players
in this case receivers wondering what the next steps are
and what truly is the fair number. So all I'm
saying is not projecting, not foreshadowing in the sense of
(07:24):
knowing what's going on within the building. But Lindsey understand
it is not just cut and dry on numbers. There
is a lot of other discussion there that has to
be you know, you have to be has to be
worked through for sure well.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And also even with regard to the numbers, we all
know this that there will be a headline put out
about every new deal saying it's like it's the highest
ever in this and it could be guaranteed money, it
could be total, it could be whatever, and then you
have to actually look at the deal and figure out
what it is year by year and if there are
any inflated cap numbers in the later you know years
(07:58):
of the deal that that person's never actually going to
see and so oftentimes the headlines about what certain deals
are are not actually reflective of what the deal is
in this case, do you think that it likely will
be that in a wide receiver, a top wide receiver
of a person of his age, he's likely to play
out the whole contract and so whatever number comes out
is likely to be a number that he actually sees
(08:19):
and is paid.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Oh, I think so. I think My personal feeling is,
but you never know, is that he'll stay through through
his contract and that's kind of organization that will work
it hard. There's a loyalty there, there's a focus there
with that organization. Albeit polarizing for some in the league
right just because of their approach might be different than
most teams. They're going to get it done. They have
(08:42):
some really good, strong personnel people there. I mentioned his
name before, you know, when I think about Duke Tobin
in the way that he team builds there at Cincinnati
and we start talking about the necessary side and we
haven't gotten into this, I'm sure you're going to toss
it at me. To put this kind of money into
a quarterback and into a receiver, it's huge. We did
(09:02):
the same thing in Atlanta back in the day with
Matt Ryan and Julio Jones. We had Roddy White as well,
we had a number of other offensive tools. I'm a
big believer in making sure that offense is stout as
far as production. They have to rip it up versus
you know in the past game. They have to do
it in the run game. They have to mix it
up with creativity. And when you have athletes like the
Bengals have both that quarterback and of course at the
(09:25):
receiver position, it can be a difference maker. It can,
it can be something that I think is very worth it.
Some people would argue, why don't you just kind of
water down a little bit, have two or three receivers
that are good, not great, and just go from there. Look,
I believe in having one and two being complete difference makers,
(09:45):
and I am a big believer in a one A
and a one B. However, you look at it and
then you have a three who can be good, and
a four who can be good. But to sit there
and think I'm not going to spend my money on
a one in a two which can be game breaker
and playmakers, That's not how I personally believe teams should
be built. That's my opinion, Thomas.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I couldn't agree more. And I think I think what
you're saying there about the second wide receiver is a
key point that gets lost in the wash a lot
of times. I like to say that you're you know
your wide receiver one is only as good as your
wide receiver two, right, Like you do need both of
those pieces, and certainly the Bengals do have that. I
(10:29):
want to I want to go a little bit deeper
on some of the things that you said there in
terms of what positions you would prioritize. There have been
a lot of conversations in the last few years about
positional value, and part of the running back conversation is
that the positional value is very, very low and that's
why they're not getting paid, and so that leads to
a lot of conversations about that. But let's say you
are a general manager and you are deciding where to
(10:51):
allocate your resources and it's a vacuum. Let's say you're
not just handed a team and your best place. If
you're building, what ideally do you want to allocate your
resources too?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Well, I mean, I think I've mentioned this before. If
I'm answering your question correctly, I'm a big believer in
pillar positions, right, the pillar positions within the offense and
the defense are where you should be spending your money.
And again, in my opinion, people have different approaches to it.
I understand some people think you can get certain positions
at a better value, no question, there's data out there
on that. There's the other side of it, right, how
(11:25):
that person affects the locker room, how it affects the
intelligence of the team themselves, what their morale element, is
There is a lot of that. But I mean, categorically,
you're spending money on the quarterback. In my mind, you're
spending money on a receiver. You're spending money on a
left tackle. You need to make sure that you're set
(11:47):
that way on the flip side. On the defensive side,
obviously you need your pass rusher. You need a marquee
pass rusher, which, by the way, I raise my hand,
we never really accomplished that at Atlanta. That's another time,
another place conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You tried.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
We always thought we were, we always thought we did.
We had some you know, some elements of it, and
then they died down. Which so that's another conversation. I'm
a big believer in a marquee corner and or two.
So you know you're spreading it around. I get it.
And then you know you need to be smart about
the rest of your offensive line and your defensive line.
We know how important that is. I just want to
(12:22):
make sure that you have the firepower. I would want
to make sure that we had the firepower as a
team builder to make sure people are always trying to
play catch up with you, right, not only you know,
you can have some unbelievably Athletico lineman, which is important
d linemen pass rushers. But on the periphery, I think
it's really important, right you you mentioned a minute ago,
(12:42):
one and two is very important. Two might make number
one as a receiver. Two and one also open things
up for one or two, depending on it. Right, you
send a cat deep who can fly and tear it
off the top end, and you do some stuff unbelievably
creative underneath. You're creating big pockets of gains, not only
with your number two receiver, but your number three that
(13:03):
we're not really talking about, or two as a very
bona fide tight end out there, Lindsey, all of a sudden,
you have tools all over the place on the offensive side,
and you're hitting it. You're getting creative, you're being you're
moving the ball around, which is obviously very important. So
I just think it's so important when you step back
and you start allocating your money, you monitor it, no
(13:26):
question about it. Certain years, you may be higher in
other areas not depending of course, contingent on the age.
You may have a youthful team on the defense where
you can spend more money on your offense, or vice versa.
Right it's always being ahead. Most people have to understand
that when you're building a team, you're not just looking
at year one and two. You are looking at year
two and three. And as much as we don't like
(13:48):
to admit it, sometimes we are looking at four as
long as our owners are giving us the wherewithal and
the confidence that four is going to still be there
within our grasp. If our owners hanging it over our
heads we have one and a half years left, that's
a whole different story.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Are there specific rosters that are better suited to pay
a top of market wide receiver? And I ask this
with like the chiefs in mind. For instance, when Tyreek
Hill wanted a new deal, they sent him packing to
the Dolphins. And I think in a lot of ways, well,
I mean, obviously they were proven right right like that
(14:24):
they could get it done without him, and that they
didn't need that high end talent because Patrick Mahlomes could
elevate the play of slightly more average wide receivers. And
so I'm wondering, if you know, we saw them pass
on doing it, we saw the Titans pass a few
years back. My guess is that they would like that
take back to a degree with the aj Brown deal,
(14:45):
But there are certain rosters that choose not to. And
what goes into you think making that calculation from a
front office standpoint about whether or not you are a
team that can support a wide receiver that's paid in
this manner versus someone that want to, you know, trade
him away or send him to free agency. That's unlikely
to happen something like that.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Well, obviously, the most the most obvious situation is when
you're a team that doesn't have the supporting cast. You're
not just gonna win all types of games and you're
not going to run rough shot over people over defenses
because you have one marquee receiver. You better have the
supporting cast. You better have the of course, the quarterback
to move the ball around. You better have the offensive
(15:27):
line to protect your quarterback so you can get the
damn ball to this receiver that you're paying all of
this money to. You know, when you look at some
of the data over the last ten and Stopsky may
be able to pull it up for us. But there
are a lot of receivers that sign those big time
contracts that were coming back the year that they signed
and beyond with very middling type records right there, there
(15:49):
were We've all had them. Right. Just because you sign
that receiver doesn't mean you're coming back to be knocking
on the door as a as a championship organization. You
know you have to grow. I'm just again a believer.
If you have the right pieces to support and evolving
an up and coming quarterback and you can move the
ball around to two, three, four different places with a
(16:09):
good solid running back as well, then I think that
wide receiver excels more. You can't just come in, in
my mind and sell the farm on one receiver and
everyone else is solid, right, They're all adequate. They're all
fives as we talk about, you know, our grading scale,
there's no sixes and sevens, and they're complimenting. Then I
think you're in a tough spot. I think. I think
(16:31):
at that point, I think you're shooting. You're shooting some blanks,
uh with your team building.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Let's say, from a team building standpoint, Because the Commanders
come to mind right now because they were mentioned a
lot in this whole brand in IUK. Will he stay
or will he go? Back and forth? It happened this offseason.
A team like the Commanders. I don't think really, They're
not a team that strikes me as having an obvious
roster right now that is set up to be immediately competitive.
(16:58):
But you could make the argument that in their case,
I suppose it could be worthwhile to pay a top
of market wide receiver because you need to develop Jaden Daniels.
You need to give him somebody consistent to throw the
ball to, and in that case you would have him
and you would have Terry McLaurin. Right Like, is there
a specific build on the lower end where it makes
sense like that maybe with a young wide quarterback that
(17:19):
you need to get a read on and or to
set up to succeed in some way.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Look, Lindsay, I love that idea, and I am a
big believer in providing that quarterback with all you need
to help him hit stride right away. I am a
right away person again in the not for long league
that it is today that said I would rather, personally
you have McLaurin, who we know is a very good receiver.
I would rather invest in a dynamite tight end. Again,
(17:45):
I've mentioned this before, high percentage shot kat who's going
to do some really special things. Then keep growing and
then you know, maybe next year, you come back in
and you sprinkle in that's the wrong word, with a
big time receiver. You factor in that receiver who's going
to make Jayden Daniels that much better, and then you
have a tight end receiver, you get your running game going,
(18:05):
you have Terry McLaurin like those are. That's a good
way to build when you put the receivers out there.
Pressure's coming in with an offensive line that they're trying
to build and work with their you know in Washington,
maybe they're not able to get that ball down the
field that they want. They would have a lot easier
time doing that underneath to the tight end position. That's
one of the thoughts that I've had.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
You just got me so excited because I just on
the fantasy podcast that I do today, made a bold
prediction that Ben Sennett would be a top twelve tight
end this year, and so I feel like maybe I
might be onto something there.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I like it. Now, Look we all know how important
that is. I mean, again, bringing it back to Atlanta
for a minute, I mean to have Tony Gonzalez and
what he did for Matt Ryan at so many levels.
It opened up so many more things. Again, when we
did bring on Julio, but when we had Roddy White
and we you know, we had Mohammed Sanu, like, we
had some people there that were really good receivers, but
(19:01):
that tight end position, and Tony Gonzalez what he did
for us because he was so special, he took it
to another level with our offense.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Let's talk about another wide receiver that just got paid
last week, and the conversation surrounding him, I think was
very different than the one that we're having about Jamar
Chase and even CD and Justin Jefferson. It was like,
pay him, Obviously, you're going to pay him. This is
going to get done. With Ayuk, the conversation was very different.
It was a little bit more. I think people are
on different pages with regard to what he is worth
(19:32):
and where he ranks in terms of the good wide receivers.
I heard over and over and over again, he's very good,
but he's not elite. There are some numbers that would
suggest that maybe he is elite, and you could also
make the argument that the numbers are inflated because he's
in the offense that he's in. How do you go
about viewing Brandon Ayuk and trying to figure out how
(19:55):
much he is worth under the circumstances.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, first of all, let me say I think
Brandon Ayuk is he's you know, we're talking about that
grading scale. You're going to bring it up one day
for the fans to see, of course, the listeners that
between the seven and the eight, the very good and
the excellent. He has a lot of traits that are excellent.
He has other traits that are very good. I know
that's that's uh, you know, that's being really particular, but
(20:19):
it is a way we evaluate, right. I think this
player has elements of his game that are excellent elements,
and I think there are other parts of his game
that are very good. And that is someone that feeds
into a head coach who knows his offense very well,
head coach that knows how he's going to use his talent. Right.
I say that all the time about you know, the
(20:39):
way that Kyle Shanahan runs his offense. And we had
an opportunity to see him here in Atlanta. I've told
people point blank timing again, and I'm sure the people
over at San Francisco aren't going to want to hear this.
He is one of the coaches in my mind that
I would pay with draft picks to come to my
team if I were ever to get back into a situation,
(21:00):
just because I believe, as much as I know he
hasn't pulled off that Super Bowl win, he's got an
unbelievable brain per his offense and how he's going to
approaching and utilizing the talent. His dad did the same
thing with running backs right kicked f an ass on
it the way that I mean back in the day
that he did with his running backs. So I love
(21:20):
how the Shanahan family are able to dig in and
do that. So what they're doing with you know, Brandon Ayuk,
who again I think is a very good slash excellent receiver,
is they are going to get him the ball. Everything
he does for that team, I think is right where
they need him to be for the system that they're playing.
Back to factoring in Deebo Samuel wide back, all that
(21:40):
he does, he helps Ayuk be who he can be.
Was I surprised it took this long? There's no question
I was. You know, there are many reasons now when
people start talking about, you know, was Denver the third
group in there? The whole idea, would they have traded away,
would they have moved on from Brandon Ayuk if they
found a bona fide receiver to replace him. We do
(22:03):
go through that as team builders, and everyone needs to
know that there are a lot of elements. There are
some people that are disappointed that the deal wasn't done
like the Jefferson deal early. I get that that's an
easy way to look at it, but there's also the
other way. Let's see if there's someone else out there.
Let's see how this plays out. Let's hold off a
little bit and see if any other deals rise to
the occasion that are going to better us. There didn't
(22:25):
seem like there was a major rush. This guy is
tried and true. He's a tough guy who's gonna work hard.
He's very very competitive. I'm sure when John Lynch and
Kyle Shanahan sat down to talk about this process, they said,
we have a drop dead date. I've also used the line,
I don't know if I've used it with you. There's
also a puke point in this whole thing, right, and
(22:46):
the puke point is we're going to go up to
this spot and spend this money. We're not going beyond
and that puke point not only has to do with that,
but it has to do with how long that that
player needs to be on the team before you are sick,
because you are now paying someone who is declining. So
there are so many factors involved in this.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I mean, that team specifically feels like they're in a
tougher position than a lot of other teams would be
trying to get It. Might be like, hey, we love you,
we'd love to pay you this, we cannot because of
all of the other people on that roster that are
making twenty plus a year, right, Like most teams don't
have that many guys. Like, look at the guys on
this team that are all getting paid. They have so
(23:25):
many of you were already when we were talking. We
got Brandon I you wrapped up, and now it's on
to Trent Williams. And like the next problem that they
have to deal with there because they have so many
high end guys.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Well yeah, I mean they they're putting together a team
that is again some people are saying they're aging. I
don't even know if you run the numbers right now,
where their age factor is. Something came out recently on that,
and I understand that's something you have to keep an
eye on sometimes though when you look at the age,
it might be the difference between you know, twenty six
five and twenty six nine, right, So let's keep that
in perspective. They have a very talented football team. John Lynch,
(23:59):
the way that he putting that team together, along with
the head coach who is you know, categorically clear on
what he wants, which, by the way, listeners and everyone
else out there, if you have a head coach is
going to be very honest with what he wants and
you are very clear, I'm saying, like lucidly approach how
you're putting together your team and understand then you have
(24:21):
a fighting chance to be one of the top rosters
out there and you can take everyone you know to
the cleaners, so to speak. And I think this team
has the ability to do that. How long they can
do it right now is a different story because there's
a lot of money, of course, put into this roster.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Brandon and I didn't quite get to the top of
the market, as most players who are top tier ten
to just be like you know, it's next one up
gets paid the most, regardless of whether or not you're
better than the next one. He didn't quite get there.
So that says something, I think to a degree about
the way that he is viewed and the fact that
they didn't necessarily think that he was on the level
(24:59):
of Justin Jjfferson or even Cede Lamb who got five
and four more per year. Do you think that that
is an accurate read? He got thirty thirty million. I mean,
nobody's like playing small violins for him or anything like that.
He's going to be just fine. But does it tell
us how he's viewed in general?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I think it's a good place for him to land. Again,
I think he is not He's not one of those
guys that was truly battling, as we know from the
results up in that thirty five range. And yet again
he is an excellent football player out there that's going
to be a difference maker for that team. So I
think in the end, San Francisco looks at that like, look,
(25:39):
we did our job, we stepped up. You're going to
step up now, and this is the right place for
him to be. Is he a little underrated? I do
believe he is at times not reflective necessarily of the money,
but some of the banter out there like, oh, he's
we're stretching it here. I think he comes through in
the clutch, and I think now he settles in. He
doesn't have to worry about this any more. He's set
(26:01):
for posterity. Of course, we get that he's got a
lot of money coming in, and then now he can
concentrate on helping them hopefully get back to the super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You mentioned age being something that people are keeping in mind.
So Brandon Ayuk is now tied with Tyreek Hill in
terms of apy. Tyreek goes to the Dolphins and says,
you know what, I need more because I'm the best
wide receiver in the league and now too many people
are ahead of me, and I'd like to rework this.
But he's thirty years old. The point I guess that
(26:33):
I want to get to here is not so much
the minutia of whether or not he's worth it or
anything like that. At this very moment, I think nobody
would argue that he's not. The issue here is that
he's thirty. And so now you start and that's I
brought this up, because now you start thinking about cliff
years and how much more time does this person have?
(26:54):
And you don't want to pay for what they have
been to you. It's not like a post reward, right,
like you want to pay them the proper amount in
the future when they're doing something for you. You want
to nail that number. And so there's a bigger risk
once you do get up there in age that we
might start seeing a decline at the position. I think
(27:15):
thirty was exactly the year since we brought up Julio.
I want to say that was the year that Julio
kind of started to get injured a lot and his
production started to decline as a result. So that's something
that's got to be on you know, any front offices
on their radar when they're negotiating. They want to say, like, yes,
at this very moment, you are, you are very very good,
(27:35):
but I don't know that I want to pay into
the future for that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And you got no that's on that that is on
your mind. There's no question that's on your mind. Now
you have to you'll be monitoring how how your player
has been up to that point. If someone is you know,
has a pension or a history of yanking hamstrings, well
then that's something yet to be very aware of that.
It's just only going to get probably more prevalent as
you age. I mean to step back on that, that
(28:00):
was on our mind. I look on it and I say,
I would never do anything different with Julio Jones. Over
all those years of contracts, except for that last one,
we still sign him for twenty two million. It was
the biggest contract in the history of the world, so
to speak. I'm being a little bit sarcastic there, but
it was. But very quickly people started passing them by.
(28:20):
We paid him a lot because we believed that it
warranted it, but we probably I ultimately because it was
my choice to do this, you know, we we extended there.
And then obviously there were there were issues for being
with being on the field and hamstring polls. This was
when his contract was done, and then when he moved
on to other teams, right, it ended up being an issue.
(28:42):
I mean, I love watching this guy play, of course, right,
his speed, explosiveness, his ability to turn up things upside down.
That's what you're looking for in a receiver. Could be one,
could be two, could be one, one A one B.
I always wanted a bigger receiver in there, mixed with
the guy that was six feet or even lower. But
when you have someone like that that can turn it
(29:02):
upside down, you know, it sort of negates some of
the need to make sure you're looking for a six
to two receiver because I mean Tyre Hill is special.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, he is that speed an he's special for that
specific offense too, that clearly prioritizes speed with all the
motion and stuff like that. So he's perfect for that
specific team. Justin Jefferson perfect in a lot of different ways.
Is he still worth it if Donald isn't good enough?
Like when they sign him, they don't really know what
(29:32):
the quarterback situation looks like. And now JJ McCarthy they
don't even necessarily have him to build with for a year,
and so do they start getting a little bit nervous
about the fact that they have signed him to that
deal At that.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Point, Categorically, Justin Jefferson is worth the money that he
has been paid in my mind, And I mean I
don't want to speak out of both sides of my
mouth because I don't, you know, Sam Donald, That's going
to be interesting to see how it plays out, right, Lindsay,
I mean where that quarterback is going to be playing?
You know what, Justin Jefferson did with Kirk Cousins as
(30:04):
he was healthy, right. I mean, we all think Kirk
Cousins is good, right, He's a good quarterback. He has
never been rated as being a top five quarterback, but
they did a great job with him. He's a fantastic
guy and he operates very well in that receiver justin Jefferson,
he would thrive in that situation. So if Sam can
come in and do his deal, that's great. Were they
(30:25):
really planning on McCarthy coming in there, you know, and
turn it upside down this year? No, but I do
believe they were planning on utilizing a receiver this talented
underneath wherever they could get him the ball to open
it up high percentage shots to him. He can create
after the catch. Of course, as he does. This is
one of those situations I wouldn't feel bad about. If anything,
(30:45):
I think he's going to bail out that team who's
in a quarterback bind.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
It's again not to bring fantasy into the conversation again,
but this was one of the bigger fantasy questions this
offseason was people, should I be afraid of drafting him
in the first round because of the quarterbacks? Will there
be a drop off in play. And my favorite stat
of the whole offseason is that in the five games
that he played last year, justin Jefferson, without Kirk Cousins,
and we know the quarterbacks he played with, and there
(31:10):
were three of them in five games, which tells you
everything you need to know. We're talking Nick Mullins, we're
talking Josh Jobs. He still averaged and again fantasy stat
eighteen point six Fantasy points, which would have made him
wide receiver five on the year. So like, I feel
like there's so much evidence that this guy can get
it done no matter what. And is that maybe the
beginning way that you start to define who is elite
(31:33):
and who's not. Like the guy that really will elevate
under any circumstance, you're that wide receiver who will like
lift all tides.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I mean that's a great point. There's no question.
That's what makes it even feel like this is more worthwhile.
What I was trying to say earlier when I was
alluding to the fact if you don't have a bona
fide quarterback, whatever that definition is, if you have a
middling quarterback, if you have a situation like maybe the
Falcons had last year with Desmond Ritter, right, and you
have receivers like that, are you truly going to reap
(32:02):
the benefits? I don't believe so, but I'm not saying.
I mean, look, we'll see, right, we'll see what Minnesota's
dealing with with Sam Darnold. Is he where is he
in that line?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I don't know. I'll ask you this from your perspective.
Is he a top twenty quarterback? Is he a twenty
five to thirty two? Is he in the mid teens
when he's operational?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I don't know my read on him. And I am
part of the Sam Donald hive, and there's a group
of us out there that are just more than anything
confident in saying that we have never seen him in
a good situation. And I think at the very least
that the fact that he hasn't been able to blow
us out of the water and answer any outstanding questions
(32:46):
we might have about what he can do in the
NFL in that situation probably means that he's not the
next Patrick Mahomes, right, like he's not a a truck
versus a trailer in that conversation. But I don't yet
know that he's not good enough because I just don't
think he's had an opportunity. I don't think he's been
in a good ecosystem. And I think he's the type
(33:06):
of quarterback who might be good enough to be a
starter in the NFL in a better situation. I'm not
convinced that he won't be fine in Minnesota this year.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
You're gonna be back on your heels here. I think
the fantasy fun take the bag and run. Look, it
is one of those situations they need to just go
with it, right. This guy is a top notch great
receiver and he's gonna turn it upside down. In my mind,
don't don't look back. Fantasy people roll with this guy.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Do you think that San Darnold? Like, what is your
take on him? Because this is a very controversial topic.
People still roll their eyes at people like me who
are like, I don't know, man, Give them a good
O line, give him a you're not gonna like this,
but you know, give them some really competent coaching. Give
him give him some you know, I mean in some
cases wide receivers. He had DJ Moore in Carolina, but
(34:00):
not all the other things. And so how much do
you think that that matters? In terms of quarterback play.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I'm a huge believer in making sure that you know
your talent right as a coaching staff. To your point, right,
and you have to be mindful, you have to be creative.
You have to make sure now that you're not having
again a young guy that they were thinking about possibly
going in with. I mean, Sam's had some struggles over
the years. We get that. I mean, what was their
plan when they brought him in. I mean, that's you know,
(34:28):
Quasi Adolpho Mensa, that's what he wanted to do, right,
he was going to bring in a veteran quarterback to
help the transition with the quarterback that they were going
to draft. Of course, when they decided to get rid
of Kirk Cousins. We can look at this. This is
a whole topic of conversation with the Vikings, right, I've
said this the other day. Very competent staff, very very
good scouting department. They provide a lot of great personnel
(34:50):
information to Quasi Adolpho Mensa, who is a very smart man.
That's important. But in the end, it's going to come
down to making sure that the coaches are working well,
have the right game plan, of the right scheme, set
up to make sure that Sam Darnold will thrive as
much as he can. Is there offensive line as good
as they need it to be to protect? Because again,
there are some talented players on that team. We know it, right,
(35:13):
I mean, we know what they can do there. And
with a receiver like that, you're hoping that this quarterback
can be at least I don't know, twenty eight to fifteen,
fifteen to twenty, right, you're hoping, and we'll see how
it is. I mean, he's got so many intangibles about
him and so much natural ability about him. I think
to play much better than he has over the years.
(35:35):
Time will tell. That didn't answer your question, because that
feels like a fence answer. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I don't know if you're on team Donald or not.
But that's okay. You don't have to be. You don't
have to creve on what I want to know to
join the hive.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
How can you be on team Donald? Right? Like? Do
you do you have stats right now that you could
present that with sat Thomas? That's what I don't know.
You think about everything that he is and you want
to pull for him, but history states.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, it's just I'm a big believer in ecosystem for
quarterbacks who are not the absolute like automatic Hall of
Fame quarterback talent, right, Like, there are certainly some quarterbacks
that can overcome environments. I think we all could point
to who those people are. But I also think that
there are some good enough quarterbacks who have long careers
(36:25):
and we don't talk about them like they're trash or
anything like that because they were. They went into good
environments and they didn't have to be things that they're not.
They didn't have to play like their weaknesses weren't highlighted
on a regular basis, you know, or like Sam with
the turnovers. I mean, who knows if that's not a
little bit Josh Allen where it's like, man, I gotta
(36:45):
make a play like nothing's happening here, and so I'm
gonna push it. I'm gonna throw it into a tight
window because if it works, then we have a touchdown,
and if not, I look bad. And I mean there's
a bunch of different things here. I think I'm not
pointing to any specific numbers. I'm just saying, like Derek,
my buddy from NFL Network, who and I'm not saying
that he would have been the best quarterback ever. But
(37:05):
I'm just saying he could have had a better career
than he did had he not gone to a Textans
team that did not have an O line, you know,
and so he wasn't getting sime. He spent that whole
season on his back, So how do we know?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
You know?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
And then the confidence and the intangibles that go with
developing a quarterback and how important those first few years are.
And I think also for people like general managers who
are like, man, I'm on a tight leash, like people
don't think you're good anymore. I can't trot you out here.
You're not popular, like and I'm not. And I also
haven't seen it, so there's no evidence here to back
me up. I just think that sometimes people get thrown away,
(37:40):
and understandably so, but doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't
have done it. They just didn't because they were in
a bad situation. And I think Stam bats that bill
for me.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That's right, No, you're exactly right. I mean, there are
there are quarterbacks out there over the years who just
haven't gotten the right, the not fair shake, but just
things haven't been played, you know, haven't played out to
your point on you know, on your buddy car and
other quarterbacks out there. I mean, you know, even even
Sam Darnold in this situation. I mean, how might it
have played out different if you were to be involved
(38:10):
with a different team. Of course, no one knows. No
one's gonna feel sorry for them because, believe me, they've
made a lot of money right in the in the
spirit of the NFL. Life has gone good. There are
some great guys that you know in the media right
now that never really excelled as we had thought. They
were really good guys, really smart guys that you know,
could probably run football teams if they were in it.
(38:31):
They decided to go into the media. You know them,
We don't even need to mention names, but they you know,
they just did not get a chance as a quarterback
to thrive in this league.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
So yep, CEEDI lamb, can you maybe make me feel
better about the fact that it took as long as
it did to get him paid?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Well, I mean, you continue to hear all that banter
out there that you know the owner there slash general manager, right,
I mean, we know, we know his approach to everything,
and his approach is about making sure that he's marketing properly.
You know, they're going to be smart about how they
put things together from the standpoint of they're going to
get the deal done eventually. The fact that CD, who
(39:13):
I think is unbelievably talented, and of course they do right.
Talk about a guy who route runs, the guy who
can catch at all levels. The guy can tear it
off the top, he can he can create after he catches.
I mean, he is the bona fide you know, right
up there in my mind with Jamar Chase, those are
guys and Justin Jefferson, like, those are amazing football players.
In my mind, I always thought as I was watching this,
(39:35):
they knew that they were going to pay him. To
your point, why this long? Why was it the I'm
saying there are people that are arguing it because it
was like we want the you know, when you listen
to Mike Florio talk about it, right, Mike's saying, this
is all about you know, Jerry Jones focusing on the team,
and every day they wake up there's a discussion about
you know, Cede Lamb not signing. So it's it's great marketing.
(39:59):
I don't know, necessarily respectfully to Mike believe that that
was all of it. I believe that they knew that
they could get it done and they were going to
get it done. They also had a point where they
were going to go and finally, you know, they had
a number that they were going to figure on and
they were just waiting. They knew they were going to
get it done. Why do that? I really can't answer
that question. They did it, and they got it done.
(40:20):
They got it done at the right time. So they're
going in not facing the situation that Cincinnati is right
in their mind. Back to remember, you get, you get
management an owner in this situation, which is a little
different than most. You sit down with your head coach
and you you map this out right for the most part. Again,
I can't answer for the Dallas Cowboys because they're a
little different. But you get and you you focus on
(40:42):
what is our drop dead timeline on this. Let's wait,
let's see what pans out. Let's see something crazy, because
you never know. We've seen in the NFL. As a
team builder, sometimes you're waiting for that outrageous trade that
comes your way. Someone knocks on the door and they're like,
we're going to do this, this and this this and
this for this this player, and you're like, wow, we
(41:02):
never would have thought that would happen. Should we consider it?
A lot of times we do think that as team builders,
as gms and head coaches, let's play it out. We'll
have them in here for that week before we go
into the fund at the beginning of this season. But
let's see how long we can drag this to see
if there's any opportunities out there. That would be my
answer to something out out of the blue like this,
(41:24):
that would be why didn't they do this earlier? Again,
I want to say this, I am all about signing
into training camp, right. I just think that that is
great for the team, meaning I would have loved it
to happen early. But again, some people negotiate, some people
team builds. Some people are businessmen in different ways. And
of course we know that, you know, we know that's
(41:45):
the situation in Dallas. Respectfully, to them, they're always going
to do it their way.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I think you're onto something there because it's the only
thing that makes sense to me, because you knew, you know,
the price that only goes up, the rice doesn't go down.
So if you're going to pay them, I think that
was what some of us were pulling our hair out.
But I do think that you're probably not wrong that
if you know that everybody on every network television station
is going to be talking about the Cowboys good, better,
(42:12):
and different, and you subscribe to the There's No Bad
pr then maybe this is good advertising for the team.
Amnra also got paid, so we've got a lot of
wider timing. The top of the wide receiver pay market
has just completely flipped this offseason. A lot of guys
got paid this year. For me, Week one is the
best week of the year because we just get so
(42:35):
much information. There's so much information about who these teams
actually are going to be, and who might be better
then we were thinking that they're going to be, and
who might be worse than we're thinking that they're going
to be, which pieces might be used more frequently and
might be the breakout stars this year, Like we're going
to start getting some of the information that will point
us in the right direction. And so I'm really excited
to have that conversation that's coming up on Thursday, Thomas.
(42:56):
This has been fun as always, getting tough a little
ball with you, and we'll be back in on Thursday.
To do that, make sure that you if you are
not already subscribed to the summer sport show, hit that
subscribe buttons. In some cases, it's like follow within a
plus and it doesn't actually say subscribe, so don't get confused.
Do all of those things and the next episode will
(43:18):
automatically appear for you wherever you get your podcasts, and
we will
Speaker 1 (43:21):
See you then
I believe in having one and two being complete difference makers.
And I am a big believer in a one A
and a one B. However, you look at it and
then you have a three who can be good and
a four who can be good. But to sit there
and think I'm not going to spend my money on
a one in a two which can be game breakers
and playmakers, That's not how I personally believe teams should
(00:23):
be built.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome, Welcome to another edition of the Sumer Sports Show.
Lindsay r Oads and Thomas de Mittrof back with you again.
Getting ready for week one. Thomas, it's here. There are
gonna be games played in a mirror matter of hours,
now days, just a couple of days. How excited are
we engaging the temperature in the room. You don't look excited.
I'd like more excitement. I'd like you to match my excitement.
(00:50):
We've got football games coming up.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Look, I am wildly excited. I was spending a lot
of time this weekend, as you know, watching a lot
of NCAA. It got me propped up a little bit
and one excited. Look, I'm we're going to talk, as
you know, about the topic. We're going to talk about.
And I love that topic because I think it is
an important, extremely important part of team building on leave.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Such a tease, such a tease, such a teas about
the topic that we're going to talk about. It is
wide receiver contracts. And yes, there is lots to talk
about in that regard. Particularly, I mean from a news
cycle standpoint, Jamar Chase suddenly the holdout that is kind
of the last one standing, it would appear, and questions
(01:35):
abounding about whether or not he will be on the
field on Sunday. He wants an extension. He hasn't practiced
all training camp. He is still not. Look, you wouldn't
know better than me. My read of this, sitting where
I sit is install is tomorrow they're going to get
this done. Maybe this will be outdated by the time
(01:57):
that the podcast even drops, because like I feel like
this it has to be a matter of minutes. Don't
you feel like they must feel like the clock is
ticking and they want to get them on board Prior
to tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I think they've been thinking the clock has been ticking
for a while. You know. The general manager of their owner,
mister Brown, has been very outspoken that he does in fact,
want to get this done. Everyone wants to get this done.
Head coach Duke Tobin, the entire staff. Look, you want
your people in place going into that first Like you
mentioned install, there's nothing more uncertain and unnerving when your
(02:29):
team isn't together. Right, you're like and as a team builder,
you're always thinking, even though you have to answer to
your owner, you're thinking, let's get the damn thing done.
I don't care if it's a few million dollars more.
Let's get it done. It is outrageously important.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
So all of the other wide receivers have signed, right, Like,
there were a bunch that got new deals this offseason,
and we'll talk about them. But CD signed his last week,
and so any outstanding information that you might need in
order to get this Jamar Chase deal done, Let's say
it's Chase's camp saying like we're waiting until everyone we're
going to be the last one. We're gonna up them
by at least a dollar. We're going to be the
highest paid wide receiver come this season. That happened a
(03:05):
week ago. What might the holdup be?
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Remember, I mean there are two parties here. Everyone wants
to think, Okay, the team needs to get this done.
This is bs et cetera, et cetera. Whatever the banter
is out there. But again, you have an agent and
you have a player, and you have that side of
the discussion quietly, which we never try to air our
dirty laundry as general managers, right and as teams. And
(03:29):
yet inside a lot of times there are some issues
that you're dealing with or many times with the agent
and the player and the game playing. That's just the
way it is. It is business. Everyone understands that. But
you just have to understand as an outsider that there
could be myriad issues that you're dealing with. It's not
just the ap y, it's not just the three year cash.
There could be other elements that you're dealing with. And look,
(03:51):
as we said, mister Brown has mentioned that he wants
to get this done. That is a known fact. I mean,
the guy is unbelievably talented. We know where Chase is
on the line. I personally would pay him one dollar
more than anyone else right now the way it is,
if not more, of course, and we can talk about that.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah, I mean that's so thirty five a year is
the highest average per year. That's Justin Jefferson. Ceedee Lamb
came in just under that at thirty four per no
doubt that this is in your mind probably right, that
this is going to come in just ahead of Justin Jefferson.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's what I'm thinking. I mean, he warrants it. I mean,
these guys are all fantastic receivers. I'm sitting there choking
back a little bit here looking at our deal with
Julio back when it was twenty two million, and looking
at this group. It's unbelievable when you look at the
top ten or twelve, looking at not there's some very
talented players in there, but it's amazing. I was changed.
We know that. And you look at Jamar Chase and
(04:49):
you think about how he runs up and down the field,
stop start. Everything that is positive about this guy is
what you want in that number one receiver to build
along the way with. You know, again they have t Higgins.
I mean, I'm really excited for this team offensively, right,
get everything rolling, get your quarterback healthy, and just rip
this around the field and tear it up with these guys.
(05:12):
But of course you have to get Jamar on the field.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Yeah, And they brought in Jermaine Burton in the off season,
so they have a little bit of maneuverability with t
Higgins pushing that one toward the future. Let's go back
to your Julio Jones experience, because that kind of sets
the table here. You absolutely know what it's like to
be in that room trying to figure out whether or
not to pay a wide receiver top dollar and what
(05:36):
that does to your build. And so what are some
of the I mean, at this point, I think we
all agree and you have said that you know they're
going to pay Jamar Chase in this particular case. It's
an interesting situation because they also have the highest paid
quarterback in the NFL in terms of apy. You walk
me through this as somebody who's been in this seat before,
trying to weigh pros and cons.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
What are they Well, look, I and this is what
I mentioned a little bit earlier. You have a lot
going on within that conversation. It's not just ap wise,
not just three year it is there are elements of it.
I mean, these players could be coming in talking about
how am I going to be paid? And this came
up and it was public when Julio Jones was discussing
(06:18):
the idea, is Matt Ryan really exponentially more valuable than
I am? I don't care the position or he didn't
care the position or not. It was a big discussion, right,
how how far off is that? So a guy like
Jamar Chase who comes in and is thinking, Hey, I
am a game breaker, a playmaker beyond extraordinary, et cetera,
(06:38):
et cetera, And my quarterback is making what he's making
at fifty five, and do I deserve thirty five? Do
I deserve as Jamar Chase thirty six, thirty seven or more?
Sometimes there can be discussions like that. I'm not saying
that's happening, but remember those types of conversations happen when
you have very competitive football players who know they're worth
(07:02):
to not only the team, they know their worth to
the production of the team. They know they're worth to
the to the evolution of the quarterback within the scheme.
There are so many elements there that have the players
in this case receivers wondering what the next steps are
and what truly is the fair number. So all I'm
saying is not projecting, not foreshadowing in the sense of
(07:24):
knowing what's going on within the building. But Lindsey understand
it is not just cut and dry on numbers. There
is a lot of other discussion there that has to
be you know, you have to be has to be
worked through for sure well.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
And also even with regard to the numbers, we all
know this that there will be a headline put out
about every new deal saying it's like it's the highest
ever in this and it could be guaranteed money, it
could be total, it could be whatever, and then you
have to actually look at the deal and figure out
what it is year by year and if there are
any inflated cap numbers in the later you know years
(07:58):
of the deal that that person's never actually going to
see and so oftentimes the headlines about what certain deals
are are not actually reflective of what the deal is
in this case, do you think that it likely will
be that in a wide receiver, a top wide receiver
of a person of his age, he's likely to play
out the whole contract and so whatever number comes out
is likely to be a number that he actually sees
(08:19):
and is paid.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Oh, I think so. I think My personal feeling is,
but you never know, is that he'll stay through through
his contract and that's kind of organization that will work
it hard. There's a loyalty there, there's a focus there
with that organization. Albeit polarizing for some in the league
right just because of their approach might be different than
most teams. They're going to get it done. They have
(08:42):
some really good, strong personnel people there. I mentioned his
name before, you know, when I think about Duke Tobin
in the way that he team builds there at Cincinnati
and we start talking about the necessary side and we
haven't gotten into this, I'm sure you're going to toss
it at me. To put this kind of money into
a quarterback and into a receiver, it's huge. We did
(09:02):
the same thing in Atlanta back in the day with
Matt Ryan and Julio Jones. We had Roddy White as well,
we had a number of other offensive tools. I'm a
big believer in making sure that offense is stout as
far as production. They have to rip it up versus
you know in the past game. They have to do
it in the run game. They have to mix it
up with creativity. And when you have athletes like the
Bengals have both that quarterback and of course at the
(09:25):
receiver position, it can be a difference maker. It can,
it can be something that I think is very worth it.
Some people would argue, why don't you just kind of
water down a little bit, have two or three receivers
that are good, not great, and just go from there. Look,
I believe in having one and two being complete difference makers,
(09:45):
and I am a big believer in a one A
and a one B. However, you look at it and
then you have a three who can be good, and
a four who can be good. But to sit there
and think I'm not going to spend my money on
a one in a two which can be game breaker
and playmakers, That's not how I personally believe teams should
be built. That's my opinion, Thomas.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I couldn't agree more. And I think I think what
you're saying there about the second wide receiver is a
key point that gets lost in the wash a lot
of times. I like to say that you're you know
your wide receiver one is only as good as your
wide receiver two, right, Like you do need both of
those pieces, and certainly the Bengals do have that. I
(10:29):
want to I want to go a little bit deeper
on some of the things that you said there in
terms of what positions you would prioritize. There have been
a lot of conversations in the last few years about
positional value, and part of the running back conversation is
that the positional value is very, very low and that's
why they're not getting paid, and so that leads to
a lot of conversations about that. But let's say you
are a general manager and you are deciding where to
(10:51):
allocate your resources and it's a vacuum. Let's say you're
not just handed a team and your best place. If
you're building, what ideally do you want to allocate your
resources too?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Well, I mean, I think I've mentioned this before. If
I'm answering your question correctly, I'm a big believer in
pillar positions, right, the pillar positions within the offense and
the defense are where you should be spending your money.
And again, in my opinion, people have different approaches to it.
I understand some people think you can get certain positions
at a better value, no question, there's data out there
on that. There's the other side of it, right, how
(11:25):
that person affects the locker room, how it affects the
intelligence of the team themselves, what their morale element, is
There is a lot of that. But I mean, categorically,
you're spending money on the quarterback. In my mind, you're
spending money on a receiver. You're spending money on a
left tackle. You need to make sure that you're set
(11:47):
that way on the flip side. On the defensive side,
obviously you need your pass rusher. You need a marquee
pass rusher, which, by the way, I raise my hand,
we never really accomplished that at Atlanta. That's another time,
another place conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You tried.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
We always thought we were, we always thought we did.
We had some you know, some elements of it, and
then they died down. Which so that's another conversation. I'm
a big believer in a marquee corner and or two.
So you know you're spreading it around. I get it.
And then you know you need to be smart about
the rest of your offensive line and your defensive line.
We know how important that is. I just want to
(12:22):
make sure that you have the firepower. I would want
to make sure that we had the firepower as a
team builder to make sure people are always trying to
play catch up with you, right, not only you know,
you can have some unbelievably Athletico lineman, which is important
d linemen pass rushers. But on the periphery, I think
it's really important, right you you mentioned a minute ago,
(12:42):
one and two is very important. Two might make number
one as a receiver. Two and one also open things
up for one or two, depending on it. Right, you
send a cat deep who can fly and tear it
off the top end, and you do some stuff unbelievably
creative underneath. You're creating big pockets of gains, not only
with your number two receiver, but your number three that
(13:03):
we're not really talking about, or two as a very
bona fide tight end out there, Lindsey, all of a sudden,
you have tools all over the place on the offensive side,
and you're hitting it. You're getting creative, you're being you're
moving the ball around, which is obviously very important. So
I just think it's so important when you step back
and you start allocating your money, you monitor it, no
(13:26):
question about it. Certain years, you may be higher in
other areas not depending of course, contingent on the age.
You may have a youthful team on the defense where
you can spend more money on your offense, or vice versa.
Right it's always being ahead. Most people have to understand
that when you're building a team, you're not just looking
at year one and two. You are looking at year
two and three. And as much as we don't like
(13:48):
to admit it, sometimes we are looking at four as
long as our owners are giving us the wherewithal and
the confidence that four is going to still be there
within our grasp. If our owners hanging it over our
heads we have one and a half years left, that's
a whole different story.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Are there specific rosters that are better suited to pay
a top of market wide receiver? And I ask this
with like the chiefs in mind. For instance, when Tyreek
Hill wanted a new deal, they sent him packing to
the Dolphins. And I think in a lot of ways, well,
I mean, obviously they were proven right right like that
(14:24):
they could get it done without him, and that they
didn't need that high end talent because Patrick Mahlomes could
elevate the play of slightly more average wide receivers. And
so I'm wondering, if you know, we saw them pass
on doing it, we saw the Titans pass a few
years back. My guess is that they would like that
take back to a degree with the aj Brown deal,
(14:45):
But there are certain rosters that choose not to. And
what goes into you think making that calculation from a
front office standpoint about whether or not you are a
team that can support a wide receiver that's paid in
this manner versus someone that want to, you know, trade
him away or send him to free agency. That's unlikely
to happen something like that.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Well, obviously, the most the most obvious situation is when
you're a team that doesn't have the supporting cast. You're
not just gonna win all types of games and you're
not going to run rough shot over people over defenses
because you have one marquee receiver. You better have the
supporting cast. You better have the of course, the quarterback
to move the ball around. You better have the offensive
(15:27):
line to protect your quarterback so you can get the
damn ball to this receiver that you're paying all of
this money to. You know, when you look at some
of the data over the last ten and Stopsky may
be able to pull it up for us. But there
are a lot of receivers that sign those big time
contracts that were coming back the year that they signed
and beyond with very middling type records right there, there
(15:49):
were We've all had them. Right. Just because you sign
that receiver doesn't mean you're coming back to be knocking
on the door as a as a championship organization. You
know you have to grow. I'm just again a believer.
If you have the right pieces to support and evolving
an up and coming quarterback and you can move the
ball around to two, three, four different places with a
(16:09):
good solid running back as well, then I think that
wide receiver excels more. You can't just come in, in
my mind and sell the farm on one receiver and
everyone else is solid, right, They're all adequate. They're all
fives as we talk about, you know, our grading scale,
there's no sixes and sevens, and they're complimenting. Then I
think you're in a tough spot. I think. I think
(16:31):
at that point, I think you're shooting. You're shooting some blanks,
uh with your team building.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Let's say, from a team building standpoint, Because the Commanders
come to mind right now because they were mentioned a
lot in this whole brand in IUK. Will he stay
or will he go? Back and forth? It happened this offseason.
A team like the Commanders. I don't think really, They're
not a team that strikes me as having an obvious
roster right now that is set up to be immediately competitive.
(16:58):
But you could make the argument that in their case,
I suppose it could be worthwhile to pay a top
of market wide receiver because you need to develop Jaden Daniels.
You need to give him somebody consistent to throw the
ball to, and in that case you would have him
and you would have Terry McLaurin. Right Like, is there
a specific build on the lower end where it makes
sense like that maybe with a young wide quarterback that
(17:19):
you need to get a read on and or to
set up to succeed in some way.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Look, Lindsay, I love that idea, and I am a
big believer in providing that quarterback with all you need
to help him hit stride right away. I am a
right away person again in the not for long league
that it is today that said I would rather, personally
you have McLaurin, who we know is a very good receiver.
I would rather invest in a dynamite tight end. Again,
(17:45):
I've mentioned this before, high percentage shot kat who's going
to do some really special things. Then keep growing and
then you know, maybe next year, you come back in
and you sprinkle in that's the wrong word, with a
big time receiver. You factor in that receiver who's going
to make Jayden Daniels that much better, and then you
have a tight end receiver, you get your running game going,
(18:05):
you have Terry McLaurin like those are. That's a good
way to build when you put the receivers out there.
Pressure's coming in with an offensive line that they're trying
to build and work with their you know in Washington,
maybe they're not able to get that ball down the
field that they want. They would have a lot easier
time doing that underneath to the tight end position. That's
one of the thoughts that I've had.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
You just got me so excited because I just on
the fantasy podcast that I do today, made a bold
prediction that Ben Sennett would be a top twelve tight
end this year, and so I feel like maybe I
might be onto something there.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
I like it. Now, Look we all know how important
that is. I mean, again, bringing it back to Atlanta
for a minute, I mean to have Tony Gonzalez and
what he did for Matt Ryan at so many levels.
It opened up so many more things. Again, when we
did bring on Julio, but when we had Roddy White
and we you know, we had Mohammed Sanu, like, we
had some people there that were really good receivers, but
(19:01):
that tight end position, and Tony Gonzalez what he did
for us because he was so special, he took it
to another level with our offense.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Let's talk about another wide receiver that just got paid
last week, and the conversation surrounding him, I think was
very different than the one that we're having about Jamar
Chase and even CD and Justin Jefferson. It was like,
pay him, Obviously, you're going to pay him. This is
going to get done. With Ayuk, the conversation was very different.
It was a little bit more. I think people are
on different pages with regard to what he is worth
(19:32):
and where he ranks in terms of the good wide receivers.
I heard over and over and over again, he's very good,
but he's not elite. There are some numbers that would
suggest that maybe he is elite, and you could also
make the argument that the numbers are inflated because he's
in the offense that he's in. How do you go
about viewing Brandon Ayuk and trying to figure out how
(19:55):
much he is worth under the circumstances.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
All right, first of all, let me say I think
Brandon Ayuk is he's you know, we're talking about that
grading scale. You're going to bring it up one day
for the fans to see, of course, the listeners that
between the seven and the eight, the very good and
the excellent. He has a lot of traits that are excellent.
He has other traits that are very good. I know
that's that's uh, you know, that's being really particular, but
(20:19):
it is a way we evaluate, right. I think this
player has elements of his game that are excellent elements,
and I think there are other parts of his game
that are very good. And that is someone that feeds
into a head coach who knows his offense very well,
head coach that knows how he's going to use his talent. Right.
I say that all the time about you know, the
(20:39):
way that Kyle Shanahan runs his offense. And we had
an opportunity to see him here in Atlanta. I've told
people point blank timing again, and I'm sure the people
over at San Francisco aren't going to want to hear this.
He is one of the coaches in my mind that
I would pay with draft picks to come to my
team if I were ever to get back into a situation,
(21:00):
just because I believe, as much as I know he
hasn't pulled off that Super Bowl win, he's got an
unbelievable brain per his offense and how he's going to
approaching and utilizing the talent. His dad did the same
thing with running backs right kicked f an ass on
it the way that I mean back in the day
that he did with his running backs. So I love
(21:20):
how the Shanahan family are able to dig in and
do that. So what they're doing with you know, Brandon Ayuk,
who again I think is a very good slash excellent receiver,
is they are going to get him the ball. Everything
he does for that team, I think is right where
they need him to be for the system that they're playing.
Back to factoring in Deebo Samuel wide back, all that
(21:40):
he does, he helps Ayuk be who he can be.
Was I surprised it took this long? There's no question
I was. You know, there are many reasons now when
people start talking about, you know, was Denver the third
group in there? The whole idea, would they have traded away,
would they have moved on from Brandon Ayuk if they
found a bona fide receiver to replace him. We do
(22:03):
go through that as team builders, and everyone needs to
know that there are a lot of elements. There are
some people that are disappointed that the deal wasn't done
like the Jefferson deal early. I get that that's an
easy way to look at it, but there's also the
other way. Let's see if there's someone else out there.
Let's see how this plays out. Let's hold off a
little bit and see if any other deals rise to
the occasion that are going to better us. There didn't
(22:25):
seem like there was a major rush. This guy is
tried and true. He's a tough guy who's gonna work hard.
He's very very competitive. I'm sure when John Lynch and
Kyle Shanahan sat down to talk about this process, they said,
we have a drop dead date. I've also used the line,
I don't know if I've used it with you. There's
also a puke point in this whole thing, right, and
(22:46):
the puke point is we're going to go up to
this spot and spend this money. We're not going beyond
and that puke point not only has to do with that,
but it has to do with how long that that
player needs to be on the team before you are sick,
because you are now paying someone who is declining. So
there are so many factors involved in this.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I mean, that team specifically feels like they're in a
tougher position than a lot of other teams would be
trying to get It. Might be like, hey, we love you,
we'd love to pay you this, we cannot because of
all of the other people on that roster that are
making twenty plus a year, right, Like most teams don't
have that many guys. Like, look at the guys on
this team that are all getting paid. They have so
(23:25):
many of you were already when we were talking. We
got Brandon I you wrapped up, and now it's on
to Trent Williams. And like the next problem that they
have to deal with there because they have so many
high end guys.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Well yeah, I mean they they're putting together a team
that is again some people are saying they're aging. I
don't even know if you run the numbers right now,
where their age factor is. Something came out recently on that,
and I understand that's something you have to keep an
eye on sometimes though when you look at the age,
it might be the difference between you know, twenty six
five and twenty six nine, right, So let's keep that
in perspective. They have a very talented football team. John Lynch,
(23:59):
the way that he putting that team together, along with
the head coach who is you know, categorically clear on
what he wants, which, by the way, listeners and everyone
else out there, if you have a head coach is
going to be very honest with what he wants and
you are very clear, I'm saying, like lucidly approach how
you're putting together your team and understand then you have
(24:21):
a fighting chance to be one of the top rosters
out there and you can take everyone you know to
the cleaners, so to speak. And I think this team
has the ability to do that. How long they can
do it right now is a different story because there's
a lot of money, of course, put into this roster.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Brandon and I didn't quite get to the top of
the market, as most players who are top tier ten
to just be like you know, it's next one up
gets paid the most, regardless of whether or not you're
better than the next one. He didn't quite get there.
So that says something, I think to a degree about
the way that he is viewed and the fact that
they didn't necessarily think that he was on the level
(24:59):
of Justin Jjfferson or even Cede Lamb who got five
and four more per year. Do you think that that
is an accurate read? He got thirty thirty million. I mean,
nobody's like playing small violins for him or anything like that.
He's going to be just fine. But does it tell
us how he's viewed in general?
Speaker 1 (25:18):
I think it's a good place for him to land. Again,
I think he is not He's not one of those
guys that was truly battling, as we know from the
results up in that thirty five range. And yet again
he is an excellent football player out there that's going
to be a difference maker for that team. So I
think in the end, San Francisco looks at that like, look,
(25:39):
we did our job, we stepped up. You're going to
step up now, and this is the right place for
him to be. Is he a little underrated? I do
believe he is at times not reflective necessarily of the money,
but some of the banter out there like, oh, he's
we're stretching it here. I think he comes through in
the clutch, and I think now he settles in. He
doesn't have to worry about this any more. He's set
(26:01):
for posterity. Of course, we get that he's got a
lot of money coming in, and then now he can
concentrate on helping them hopefully get back to the super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
You mentioned age being something that people are keeping in mind.
So Brandon Ayuk is now tied with Tyreek Hill in
terms of apy. Tyreek goes to the Dolphins and says,
you know what, I need more because I'm the best
wide receiver in the league and now too many people
are ahead of me, and I'd like to rework this.
But he's thirty years old. The point I guess that
(26:33):
I want to get to here is not so much
the minutia of whether or not he's worth it or
anything like that. At this very moment, I think nobody
would argue that he's not. The issue here is that
he's thirty. And so now you start and that's I
brought this up, because now you start thinking about cliff
years and how much more time does this person have?
(26:54):
And you don't want to pay for what they have
been to you. It's not like a post reward, right,
like you want to pay them the proper amount in
the future when they're doing something for you. You want
to nail that number. And so there's a bigger risk
once you do get up there in age that we
might start seeing a decline at the position. I think
(27:15):
thirty was exactly the year since we brought up Julio.
I want to say that was the year that Julio
kind of started to get injured a lot and his
production started to decline as a result. So that's something
that's got to be on you know, any front offices
on their radar when they're negotiating. They want to say, like, yes,
at this very moment, you are, you are very very good,
(27:35):
but I don't know that I want to pay into
the future for that.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
And you got no that's on that that is on
your mind. There's no question that's on your mind. Now
you have to you'll be monitoring how how your player
has been up to that point. If someone is you know,
has a pension or a history of yanking hamstrings, well
then that's something yet to be very aware of that.
It's just only going to get probably more prevalent as
you age. I mean to step back on that, that
(28:00):
was on our mind. I look on it and I say,
I would never do anything different with Julio Jones. Over
all those years of contracts, except for that last one,
we still sign him for twenty two million. It was
the biggest contract in the history of the world, so
to speak. I'm being a little bit sarcastic there, but
it was. But very quickly people started passing them by.
(28:20):
We paid him a lot because we believed that it
warranted it, but we probably I ultimately because it was
my choice to do this, you know, we we extended there.
And then obviously there were there were issues for being
with being on the field and hamstring polls. This was
when his contract was done, and then when he moved
on to other teams, right, it ended up being an issue.
(28:42):
I mean, I love watching this guy play, of course, right,
his speed, explosiveness, his ability to turn up things upside down.
That's what you're looking for in a receiver. Could be one,
could be two, could be one, one A one B.
I always wanted a bigger receiver in there, mixed with
the guy that was six feet or even lower. But
when you have someone like that that can turn it
(29:02):
upside down, you know, it sort of negates some of
the need to make sure you're looking for a six
to two receiver because I mean Tyre Hill is special.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, he is that speed an he's special for that
specific offense too, that clearly prioritizes speed with all the
motion and stuff like that. So he's perfect for that
specific team. Justin Jefferson perfect in a lot of different ways.
Is he still worth it if Donald isn't good enough?
Like when they sign him, they don't really know what
(29:32):
the quarterback situation looks like. And now JJ McCarthy they
don't even necessarily have him to build with for a year,
and so do they start getting a little bit nervous
about the fact that they have signed him to that
deal At that.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Point, Categorically, Justin Jefferson is worth the money that he
has been paid in my mind, And I mean I
don't want to speak out of both sides of my
mouth because I don't, you know, Sam Donald, That's going
to be interesting to see how it plays out, right, Lindsay,
I mean where that quarterback is going to be playing?
You know what, Justin Jefferson did with Kirk Cousins as
(30:04):
he was healthy, right. I mean, we all think Kirk
Cousins is good, right, He's a good quarterback. He has
never been rated as being a top five quarterback, but
they did a great job with him. He's a fantastic
guy and he operates very well in that receiver justin Jefferson,
he would thrive in that situation. So if Sam can
come in and do his deal, that's great. Were they
(30:25):
really planning on McCarthy coming in there, you know, and
turn it upside down this year? No, but I do
believe they were planning on utilizing a receiver this talented
underneath wherever they could get him the ball to open
it up high percentage shots to him. He can create
after the catch. Of course, as he does. This is
one of those situations I wouldn't feel bad about. If anything,
(30:45):
I think he's going to bail out that team who's
in a quarterback bind.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
It's again not to bring fantasy into the conversation again,
but this was one of the bigger fantasy questions this
offseason was people, should I be afraid of drafting him
in the first round because of the quarterbacks? Will there
be a drop off in play. And my favorite stat
of the whole offseason is that in the five games
that he played last year, justin Jefferson, without Kirk Cousins,
and we know the quarterbacks he played with, and there
(31:10):
were three of them in five games, which tells you
everything you need to know. We're talking Nick Mullins, we're
talking Josh Jobs. He still averaged and again fantasy stat
eighteen point six Fantasy points, which would have made him
wide receiver five on the year. So like, I feel
like there's so much evidence that this guy can get
it done no matter what. And is that maybe the
beginning way that you start to define who is elite
(31:33):
and who's not. Like the guy that really will elevate
under any circumstance, you're that wide receiver who will like
lift all tides.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I mean that's a great point. There's no question.
That's what makes it even feel like this is more worthwhile.
What I was trying to say earlier when I was
alluding to the fact if you don't have a bona
fide quarterback, whatever that definition is, if you have a
middling quarterback, if you have a situation like maybe the
Falcons had last year with Desmond Ritter, right, and you
have receivers like that, are you truly going to reap
(32:02):
the benefits? I don't believe so, but I'm not saying.
I mean, look, we'll see, right, we'll see what Minnesota's
dealing with with Sam Darnold. Is he where is he
in that line?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Right?
Speaker 1 (32:14):
I don't know. I'll ask you this from your perspective.
Is he a top twenty quarterback? Is he a twenty
five to thirty two? Is he in the mid teens
when he's operational?
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I don't know my read on him. And I am
part of the Sam Donald hive, and there's a group
of us out there that are just more than anything
confident in saying that we have never seen him in
a good situation. And I think at the very least
that the fact that he hasn't been able to blow
us out of the water and answer any outstanding questions
(32:46):
we might have about what he can do in the
NFL in that situation probably means that he's not the
next Patrick Mahomes, right, like he's not a a truck
versus a trailer in that conversation. But I don't yet
know that he's not good enough because I just don't
think he's had an opportunity. I don't think he's been
in a good ecosystem. And I think he's the type
(33:06):
of quarterback who might be good enough to be a
starter in the NFL in a better situation. I'm not
convinced that he won't be fine in Minnesota this year.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
You're gonna be back on your heels here. I think
the fantasy fun take the bag and run. Look, it
is one of those situations they need to just go
with it, right. This guy is a top notch great
receiver and he's gonna turn it upside down. In my mind,
don't don't look back. Fantasy people roll with this guy.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Do you think that San Darnold? Like, what is your
take on him? Because this is a very controversial topic.
People still roll their eyes at people like me who
are like, I don't know, man, Give them a good
O line, give him a you're not gonna like this,
but you know, give them some really competent coaching. Give
him give him some you know, I mean in some
cases wide receivers. He had DJ Moore in Carolina, but
(34:00):
not all the other things. And so how much do
you think that that matters? In terms of quarterback play.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
I'm a huge believer in making sure that you know
your talent right as a coaching staff. To your point, right,
and you have to be mindful, you have to be creative.
You have to make sure now that you're not having
again a young guy that they were thinking about possibly
going in with. I mean, Sam's had some struggles over
the years. We get that. I mean, what was their
plan when they brought him in. I mean, that's you know,
(34:28):
Quasi Adolpho Mensa, that's what he wanted to do, right,
he was going to bring in a veteran quarterback to
help the transition with the quarterback that they were going
to draft. Of course, when they decided to get rid
of Kirk Cousins. We can look at this. This is
a whole topic of conversation with the Vikings, right, I've
said this the other day. Very competent staff, very very
good scouting department. They provide a lot of great personnel
(34:50):
information to Quasi Adolpho Mensa, who is a very smart man.
That's important. But in the end, it's going to come
down to making sure that the coaches are working well,
have the right game plan, of the right scheme, set
up to make sure that Sam Darnold will thrive as
much as he can. Is there offensive line as good
as they need it to be to protect? Because again,
there are some talented players on that team. We know it, right,
(35:13):
I mean, we know what they can do there. And
with a receiver like that, you're hoping that this quarterback
can be at least I don't know, twenty eight to fifteen,
fifteen to twenty, right, you're hoping, and we'll see how
it is. I mean, he's got so many intangibles about
him and so much natural ability about him. I think
to play much better than he has over the years.
(35:35):
Time will tell. That didn't answer your question, because that
feels like a fence answer. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
I don't know if you're on team Donald or not.
But that's okay. You don't have to be. You don't
have to creve on what I want to know to
join the hive.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
How can you be on team Donald? Right? Like? Do
you do you have stats right now that you could
present that with sat Thomas? That's what I don't know.
You think about everything that he is and you want
to pull for him, but history states.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, it's just I'm a big believer in ecosystem for
quarterbacks who are not the absolute like automatic Hall of
Fame quarterback talent, right, Like, there are certainly some quarterbacks
that can overcome environments. I think we all could point
to who those people are. But I also think that
there are some good enough quarterbacks who have long careers
(36:25):
and we don't talk about them like they're trash or
anything like that because they were. They went into good
environments and they didn't have to be things that they're not.
They didn't have to play like their weaknesses weren't highlighted
on a regular basis, you know, or like Sam with
the turnovers. I mean, who knows if that's not a
little bit Josh Allen where it's like, man, I gotta
(36:45):
make a play like nothing's happening here, and so I'm
gonna push it. I'm gonna throw it into a tight
window because if it works, then we have a touchdown,
and if not, I look bad. And I mean there's
a bunch of different things here. I think I'm not
pointing to any specific numbers. I'm just saying, like Derek,
my buddy from NFL Network, who and I'm not saying
that he would have been the best quarterback ever. But
(37:05):
I'm just saying he could have had a better career
than he did had he not gone to a Textans
team that did not have an O line, you know,
and so he wasn't getting sime. He spent that whole
season on his back, So how do we know?
Speaker 1 (37:15):
You know?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
And then the confidence and the intangibles that go with
developing a quarterback and how important those first few years are.
And I think also for people like general managers who
are like, man, I'm on a tight leash, like people
don't think you're good anymore. I can't trot you out here.
You're not popular, like and I'm not. And I also
haven't seen it, so there's no evidence here to back
me up. I just think that sometimes people get thrown away,
(37:40):
and understandably so, but doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't
have done it. They just didn't because they were in
a bad situation. And I think Stam bats that bill
for me.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
That's right, No, you're exactly right. I mean, there are
there are quarterbacks out there over the years who just
haven't gotten the right, the not fair shake, but just
things haven't been played, you know, haven't played out to
your point on you know, on your buddy car and
other quarterbacks out there. I mean, you know, even even
Sam Darnold in this situation. I mean, how might it
have played out different if you were to be involved
(38:10):
with a different team. Of course, no one knows. No
one's gonna feel sorry for them because, believe me, they've
made a lot of money right in the in the
spirit of the NFL. Life has gone good. There are
some great guys that you know in the media right
now that never really excelled as we had thought. They
were really good guys, really smart guys that you know,
could probably run football teams if they were in it.
(38:31):
They decided to go into the media. You know them,
We don't even need to mention names, but they you know,
they just did not get a chance as a quarterback
to thrive in this league.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
So yep, CEEDI lamb, can you maybe make me feel
better about the fact that it took as long as
it did to get him paid?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Well, I mean, you continue to hear all that banter
out there that you know the owner there slash general manager, right,
I mean, we know, we know his approach to everything,
and his approach is about making sure that he's marketing properly.
You know, they're going to be smart about how they
put things together from the standpoint of they're going to
get the deal done eventually. The fact that CD, who
(39:13):
I think is unbelievably talented, and of course they do right.
Talk about a guy who route runs, the guy who
can catch at all levels. The guy can tear it
off the top, he can he can create after he catches.
I mean, he is the bona fide you know, right
up there in my mind with Jamar Chase, those are
guys and Justin Jefferson, like, those are amazing football players.
In my mind, I always thought as I was watching this,
(39:35):
they knew that they were going to pay him. To
your point, why this long? Why was it the I'm
saying there are people that are arguing it because it
was like we want the you know, when you listen
to Mike Florio talk about it, right, Mike's saying, this
is all about you know, Jerry Jones focusing on the team,
and every day they wake up there's a discussion about
you know, Cede Lamb not signing. So it's it's great marketing.
(39:59):
I don't know, necessarily respectfully to Mike believe that that
was all of it. I believe that they knew that
they could get it done and they were going to
get it done. They also had a point where they
were going to go and finally, you know, they had
a number that they were going to figure on and
they were just waiting. They knew they were going to
get it done. Why do that? I really can't answer
that question. They did it, and they got it done.
(40:20):
They got it done at the right time. So they're
going in not facing the situation that Cincinnati is right
in their mind. Back to remember, you get, you get
management an owner in this situation, which is a little
different than most. You sit down with your head coach
and you you map this out right for the most part. Again,
I can't answer for the Dallas Cowboys because they're a
little different. But you get and you you focus on
(40:42):
what is our drop dead timeline on this. Let's wait,
let's see what pans out. Let's see something crazy, because
you never know. We've seen in the NFL. As a
team builder, sometimes you're waiting for that outrageous trade that
comes your way. Someone knocks on the door and they're like,
we're going to do this, this and this this and
this for this this player, and you're like, wow, we
(41:02):
never would have thought that would happen. Should we consider it?
A lot of times we do think that as team builders,
as gms and head coaches, let's play it out. We'll
have them in here for that week before we go
into the fund at the beginning of this season. But
let's see how long we can drag this to see
if there's any opportunities out there. That would be my
answer to something out out of the blue like this,
(41:24):
that would be why didn't they do this earlier? Again,
I want to say this, I am all about signing
into training camp, right. I just think that that is
great for the team, meaning I would have loved it
to happen early. But again, some people negotiate, some people
team builds. Some people are businessmen in different ways. And
of course we know that, you know, we know that's
(41:45):
the situation in Dallas. Respectfully, to them, they're always going
to do it their way.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
I think you're onto something there because it's the only
thing that makes sense to me, because you knew, you know,
the price that only goes up, the rice doesn't go down.
So if you're going to pay them, I think that
was what some of us were pulling our hair out.
But I do think that you're probably not wrong that
if you know that everybody on every network television station
is going to be talking about the Cowboys good, better,
(42:12):
and different, and you subscribe to the There's No Bad
pr then maybe this is good advertising for the team.
Amnra also got paid, so we've got a lot of
wider timing. The top of the wide receiver pay market
has just completely flipped this offseason. A lot of guys
got paid this year. For me, Week one is the
best week of the year because we just get so
(42:35):
much information. There's so much information about who these teams
actually are going to be, and who might be better
then we were thinking that they're going to be, and
who might be worse than we're thinking that they're going
to be, which pieces might be used more frequently and
might be the breakout stars this year, Like we're going
to start getting some of the information that will point
us in the right direction. And so I'm really excited
to have that conversation that's coming up on Thursday, Thomas.
(42:56):
This has been fun as always, getting tough a little
ball with you, and we'll be back in on Thursday.
To do that, make sure that you if you are
not already subscribed to the summer sport show, hit that
subscribe buttons. In some cases, it's like follow within a
plus and it doesn't actually say subscribe, so don't get confused.
Do all of those things and the next episode will
(43:18):
automatically appear for you wherever you get your podcasts, and
we will
Speaker 1 (43:21):
See you then
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