REBROADCAST: SumerSports #NFLDraft2024 Live Show

Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Okay, after months and months ofintrigue, we are here at the twenty
twenty four NFL Draft. I'm EricEager, one of the VPS at Sumer
Sports. I'm with Thomas mitch Rof, the CEO of Summer Sports, the
former general manager of the Atlanta Falcons, the former director of college scouting to
the New England Patriots, two timesSuper Bowl champion, two time Executive of
the Year. What I mean herea we're doing today? Here we are?

(00:25):
I mean there was so much energytoday, as you know, we
could not stop talking about the draftnon stop. You were NonStop. I
love it. It's my favorite,It's my favorite sporting event of the year.
You have the intrigue of all thirtytwo teams, and now I know
today we have obviously Houston, Carolina, Cleveland not picking, possibly maybe a

(00:45):
couple of teams moving back into thefirst round. But every single team today,
Tomorrow and Sunday, they all believethat they can they can turn their
roster into a better roster today thanthey had a season ago and better than
they were season going. We don'thave to look any further than the team
that picked second last year, theHouston Texans pick second and third. This

(01:07):
time last year we made a bigtrade for Will Anderson. You know,
we're really ballsy when it came tosee the stout. They're not only the
playoffs. Commis the second round ofthe playoffs. I think a lot of
teams starting with the team that's tickingfirst today, and Chicobers must feel the
same way. Oh, there's noquestion. Look, think about this.
Fourteen months worth of work on this. This isn't just a few months and
you know, spinning into it afterthe season. These personnel departments, these

(01:32):
general managers have done so much workand then when the coaches have done their
season, they fold them right in. So then there's a lot of energy,
both coaching and personnel, everyone workingtowards this time. There's a lot
to this. This isn't just youknow, hey, we have a little
bit of a feel for this playerof that player. There are teams out
there, and there are general managersout there who are really hot right now.

(01:52):
They don't want to admit it,but the hot seats have already started
as they are formulating their teams.This is a big time for a lot
of people in this Absolutely, we'regonna we're gonna look a little bit here
towards the future with the Chicago Bears. They last year were really you know,
they had an opportunity to pick first, they decided not to. They
traded back. They went another yearwith Justin with Justin Fields that didn't work

(02:19):
out, but picking in the topten on their own accord again. But
they are also picking first because theyhave Carolina's pick. Carolina decided to move
up and get bright Song last year, right so had to struggle, struggled
a little bit as a rookie.And now the Bears are going to be
able to get Kayleb Williams of thefirst pick, and with the ninth pick,
they're gonna be able to be ableto do some things that I think
are are interesting, whether it betrading down going and getting a you know,

(02:43):
maybe an offensive lineman to to pairwith some of their young players there,
or take a wide receiver. There'sa wide receiver. Deep draft,
Thomas, when you look at thisparticular draft, because you know you were
you were one of the best draftsin the NFL during your time two thousand
and eight to twenty twenty, uhpick who Leo Jones obviously picked Jake Matthews
and then Kayla McGary and Chris Linstromat the end, this is a draft

(03:06):
that's full of offensive linemen, fullof wide receivers. Sixteen and a half
is like the projected number of widereceivers plus offensive lineman when it comes to
building pillar pieces of football teams.How important are those two positions? Vital?
And they're vital and if you can, if you can build your team
with players from those positions of course, left tackles, of course, big

(03:29):
time receivers, eric and you cando it without going into free agency and
laying down a ton of booty onit, because that's a big thing.
Right. We often think, canwe go into the draft and can we
pull off the number one and thenumber two receivers somewhere? Can we pull
off eventually the left tackle. Thelast thing we want to do as general
managers in this league is to thinkwe're going to go in free agency and

(03:52):
try to get the left tackle orthe big time receiver. We need to
pull those guys from the draft wherethe values are right and we can grow
those players. So general managers andhead coaches going into this draft with the
strengths and the areas that are strongthis year. This is a very positive
draft for a lot of people.And they talk about I think about down

(04:12):
the street. Here, we're inAtlanta, you know, Rahie Morris and
Terry Fond. Now we are sittingthere thinking, Okay, where are we
going to go with this draft?How do we continue to build our pillar
positions? And we know they needsome defense, right, not necessarily receivers,
but in the back of their mindthey're thinking there are a lot of
other teams that need receivers that'll takepeople out of that market and possibly provide

(04:33):
opportunity to be on the defensive sidefor them to take it a bonified defensively.
Yeah, we have a couple questionsalready in the chat which is pretty
interesting. Here here's from J.D. Spurgel. How much conviction do
you need to have to pick aquarterback as a GM for a QBDED team
if you think you're on the hotseat. This is a situation right where

(04:53):
what's really cool about this particular draftis the Commanders. You're getting Adam Peters,
You're getting your old friend Dan oryour friend Dan Quinn. They're not
on the hot seat. They're goingto pick a quarterback it's going to be
their quarterback for a long time.You have Elliot Wolf, you have Drod
May owned in New England, you'rea former Stomping Grounds. They're going to
get to pick a quarterback in alllike we had at three and that was

(05:13):
the report by Tom pelisera a littlebit ago. And so they're going to
be able to pick a quarterback andkind of not be, you know,
anywhere close to this idea of beingon the hot seat for a while.
Chicago's Caleb Williams is a clear pick. And then from there, right it
does become a question mark of ifyou're the New York Giants and you had
it down here last year, theMinnesota Vikings, you're on year three and

(05:34):
you just got rid of Kirk Cousins. He's in our backyard. Now,
you know Sean Payton and Denver tooone season kind of didn't want to go
his way. And then of courseyou have in Las Vegas an interim coach
and Antonio Pierce coming up and beingthe full time coach. Now they're they're
I think these team builders are actuallyin a good position to take a quarterback

(05:55):
sort of the right way. Tops. Yeah, and I think you know,
there's trading up, and there's tradingback, there's sitting still. Most
of us would love to be ableto sit still and get who we want
and who we've been planning all allalong. Right, However, if you
can move back, and I've saidthis, and you and I've joked about
this, if you can move backfive spots and get a number of players
and add to your you know,your your building blocks a great thing.

(06:18):
But again, there is nothing worsethan moving back and all of a sudden
you don't get one, two,or three of the people you're looking at.
I refer to is that that wahwah wah moment. So let's we
can talk about that a little bit, because that is a bad feeling for
people when they when they move backand they're not able to get that proper
quarterable. Well, I think,and do you think that that's going to

(06:39):
be less likely in this draft?Because I want to I want to sort
of throw a question to you aboutfalling in love with a player, right,
is a big part of this process. Right you you are you have
a scouting background, and so youyou like to sort of go and watch
a player and and fall in lovewith his strengths and everything, and so
in a draft where from my mind, if I'm just looking at from a

(07:00):
numbers perspective, you have sixteen widereceivers or offensive linemen projected to going round
one, and so you're like,oh, okay, if we miss on
Joe Waltz, we'll get JC Lathamor somebody like that. But in your
mind, a scheme fit matters.But also just like actually falling in love
with the player that you're going todraft matters, And that's I think covering

(07:21):
up some of the fact that thereare a lot of linemen in here,
Like some of these teams have someof these guys out there board or don't
have them as high as we havethem. Yeah, and think about that
you fall in love. Right.We talk about this all the time.
We talk about scenario building. Right. If you're a team that's going in
and you need an offensive lineman,you are going to spend a lot of
time ranking those offensive linemen and youare going to fall in love and your

(07:45):
head coach is going to fall inlove with those one or two guys.
If we don't get A, webetter damn well get B. And if
B falls off the board and there'sa run on O lineman and we don't
get a chance to pick the one, two or three that we're looking for.
Comes complicated and it and it becomesa situation where you have to have
all of those scenarios lined out upand out eric so that you don't lose

(08:09):
your mind. And of course callsare coming in and you're trying to work
a trade, and then you makea mistake on a trade because you're just
not in the game because you aremoved that you're no longer getting player one
and two that you wanted. Thisthis comes back to, Luckily, there
are a number of offensive linemen herefor the teams that need O lineup because

(08:30):
this is a big This is abig deal, right the pillar positions on
your O line to protect your newquarterbacks if in fact you're pulling a quarterback
as well. Yeah, exactly.And so you're in a situation where you
know you let too Let's say youlet one great player fall off the board,
two great players after a trade back, and those players go on to
be cornerstone players for other teams,and you kind of have the situation that
Cleveland had when they traded you thesixth pick. Right where Julio Jones goes

(08:52):
on and has a Hall of Famecareer, and all of a sudden,
you're in a situation where they gotto watch him play every Sunday and and
and even though they got a lotof picks from you guys, the Falcons,
there's an element of the superstardom thatyou need on a football team.
And when you back up, youknow you might be getting more value on
the trade hearts from us nerds,but you're not necessarily getting like that superstar

(09:16):
pillar player that a Julio Jones wouldbe or Matt Ryan would be. In
this particular draft, you might bethinking about somebody like a Drake may right.
New England, as we said,as we talked about before, New
England is in a situation now whereit looks like Jada Daniels are the favor
to go second, Kayleb Williams hasbeen the favorite to go first for the
longest time. It sounds like NewEngland's just going to sit there and take
a quarterback, which I know youand I have talked about on air a

(09:39):
number of times. I think thatthere's got to be an offer that maybe
a Minnesota or Denver or New Yorkare going to come up and do that.
Maybe could strengthen a roster that NewEngland has. The combination of there
not being a ton of great quarterbacksin the next draft and simply knowing that
New England's dynasty was built off ofobviously you know, a great staff like

(10:01):
you guys, but also because BillBill Belichick had Tom Brady, I think
that there's the impetus in New Englandjust to get a quarterback. So can
we talk a little bit about tradingand the mechanism of trading. We've talked
about it quite a bit as well. It's not that easy. It's not
cut and dry for every organization.Not everyone approaches it that way. Back
when I was in the league,I was very active two and three weeks

(10:22):
before the draft Eric because I livedby that idea. The more information that
I could blean through talking to peoplethat might be interested in trading, I
had an idea of where they mightbe. We knew that it could change.
Nothing is solidified until you're on theclock. I get it. But
being able to have conversations and knowcategorically teams aren't interested, that's a good

(10:45):
thing. Sometimes they're like tea,we're not moving, or other times they're
like, I'm really really interested,please come to me two picks before,
four picks before. So just soeveryone knows, there's a lot of discussion.
Some people very active. Some peoplehave a reputation for being a little
bit mischief or a lot mischievous.We've talked about that too. There are
certain gms out there that they havegood relationships with that you really would love

(11:07):
to go out to dinner with ericand spend some great times with But you
know, when it came down totrading, when you get when it came
down to negotiating a deal, theywere going every which way but loose.
And those are the type of peoplethat were complicated to work your trades on.
So I think the more you haverelationships in this league, and the
more you know the people that you'redealing with, the better you are,

(11:28):
I believe, as a trader.So you're not just willing nearly flying off
the board trying to get anyone totrade with you, because that can get
complicated and it can be misleading attimes. Yeah, and I think that
what's really been interesting about this cycleis people kind of in my old circles
in the betting community have been lookingat these markets, and you know,
you had Jaden Daniels the favorite attoo, but it was prohibitive, and

(11:50):
then you had all these movements,and I think that what has been a
really tough thing for a lot ofpeople is how little people have been leaking
stuff. When you're in that share, Thomas A, you obviously have your
connections, right, so when you'retalking to Scott Pioli of the of the
Chiefs, or when he was withthe Chiefs as the GM there, or

(12:11):
you know somebody who's been in thebuilding before Nick Cassario with you, like
you kind of know the kind ofplayers Nick Cassario would like, and so
you're probably better able to discern.Okay, if I if I need if
I want this player, I'm gonnahave to jump over the Texans to get
him because I know that Nick Cassariolikes this kind of player. But there
is just like this hidden knowledge ofeverybody, like you don't know the other

(12:33):
team's big board. And as muchas like the public big boards do a
decent job in the aggregate on individualplayers, they do horribly And so how
can you tell me a little bitabout that process? Of going through and
trying to decide how far you haveto go up for a player, like,
for example, with Julio, howdid you know you had to get
the six? Like I mean thatin that draft there were a lot of
great football players, I mean theCam Newton going first, but it was

(12:56):
kind of a little shake up beforethen, like how do you know where?
How far you have to get upto get a player? Comes back
to the prep two and three weeksout when I was reaching out to one,
two, three, four, fiveand six and beyond and find out
again who was interested and quite honestly, who was interested in dealing with me
potentially? And how are they interestedin dealing with me? We've talked about

(13:16):
this and you can expound on this. The Jimmy Johnson We all know the
Jimmy Johnson charts. We know howimportant they are. We know that they
are respectfully dated, but a lotof people were using those and when I
would reach out to people that aresaying, well, I don't believe in
Jimmy Johnson's chart, or I do. We have our own chart that we
want to deal with, and I'mthinking, well, as the Atlanta Falcons,

(13:37):
we don't adhere to your approach,so it can be complicated. In
some of those teams, we're veryquick to say we're not interested. If
you're not going to give me aB and C and X, Y and
Z out the gate, then we'renot interested in talking. So what happens
is you start talking to everyone inthe area that you think it might be
and you see how far up youmight have to go. And for us

(14:00):
back in Julio times in eleven,it was all about being in that four
or five, six, seven iswhere we were, and we knew it
was going to be somewhere there thatwe're going to have to go up.
We didn't know when aj Green wasgoing to get taken, but we knew
if aj Green got that was taken, that the next receiver was either going
to be him or someone else.Yeah, it was going to be it

(14:22):
was going to be him ultimately.And to your point, like, and
you didn't make that trade until youdidn't make that trade before him, which
is a smart move, right,You waited until everything actually played out,
which of course led you to beingable to get him. But that that's
such a good point, like andto your point calling around asking you know,
even even in our roles here,like we have people who call us
and ask about a player. Nowthat you know that might mean they like

(14:45):
the player, that might mean they'retrying to vet a different team like in
that player. But there are certainclues that you can have, but it's
certainly not an exact science. Beforewe get to the actual draft, which
is going to begin in about threeand a half minutes, I do have
to shout out a few people.Firstly, our sponsor Underdog Fantasy. Underdog
Fantasy with the promo code Suomer youget a one hundred percent deposit bonus on

(15:07):
your first one hundred dollars. Youcan play either pickup game, you can
play their best Ball. We hada lot of fun Thomas this past year
playing best Ball using some of ourmodels here at Sumer. Underdog Fantasy,
in my opinion, is the bestfantasy football platform out there. Very generous
with their sponsorship here and we reallylike having them as a partner here with
us at Suomer Sports with the draftshow, and obviously we want to shout

(15:28):
out Matt Stofski, who has actuallyyou know, behind the scenes, has
been going through it a little bitwith with sound and everything. We had
actually an Internet outage probably fifteen minutesbefore the show, which is why we
were on a little bit late.So we want to shout out Matt for
his awesome producing and anytime, youknow, most of the times when he's
messaging us, it's to make theshow better. So really, we truly

(15:48):
do appreciate him. Okay, sowe are two and a half minutes away
from the Chicago Bears. This isprobably Thomas wins. The last time a
team this good has picked first,it's probably your guy Less Snead and the
La Rams in twenty sixteen when theymoved out from fifteen all the way to
one to go and get Jared Goff. Since then, it's been Cleveland coming

(16:12):
off of a one win season.You know, it's been you know,
it's been kind of all over theplace. Arizona was a struggling team when
they were picking first. This Chicagoteam got Keenan Allen this offseason, traded
last year for Montes Sweat during theyear, traded for DJ Moore during the
draft last year, drafted Darnell Rightin the top ten. This is a

(16:33):
team that I think can really dosome things in the NFC North. This
is a really tough Division, thoughMinnesota's won thirteen games a couple of years
ago. Obviously, you have GreenBay and Detroit were both winning playoff games
last year. So Chicago's got apretty big lift to go through. But
this is a really good start.It's unbelievably implant ortant. As we know,

(17:00):
we talked about this Mitch Trubisky underRyan Pace, who I'm a big
fan of. I love Ryan.Things didn't work out there, of course,
and then we think about fields justinfields, and now we're in a
situation where this is another massively importantmove for Ryan Poles. Right, the
decision to trade away, the decisionto move fields to Pittsburgh at at a

(17:26):
low price, six round pick.Everyone needs to understand the pressures on these
general managers to make the right movesand to make the right route move.
Look, we all know Caleb Williamsis a heck of a talent at so
many levels. Right, he cando, He'll be able to do wonders
for this organization as long as theyhave the plan. I'm a big believer

(17:48):
in that. Right, it's notjust the quarterback. It's making sure that
you have the coordinator in the rightspace, the position coach, in the
right space, of course, andthe quarterback that you need to be working
with right meaning understanding team, understandthat you have the right support cast,
not only the receivers, tight endsand running backs, but of course the
old line. It's not an easyfeat when people say, well, why

(18:08):
and you asked me this the otherday, why is it not a sure
thing? Like why is it nota sure bet that you can't just take
a talented guy like this who movesaround, can do anything, throw off
off balance, ad lib. Butit's still not a sure sure shot.
Well, it has to do witheverything. It also has to do with
personality. Will he come in andbe the leader that you truly want?

(18:29):
We have all the analytics. Talkabout that a little bit. You're not
measuring the analytics the passion, theheart, the fire, and the intensity
of a person through the data thatwe're working out at Summer Sports. Yeah.
By the way, speaking of thedata, you just saw a graphic
up on the show. This isby our great group Taste Seth Ashley Prue.
We're instrumental in building those taste Sethpart of our group of four that

(18:52):
are at the draft in Detroit.Well, we'll probably throw to them in
the second half of this first round. But it's a really cool team app
for here. But yeah, Imean, with a lot of these and
our stats are some of those statsare by the way, powered by stats
bomb Want, a great analytical company, a great partner with us. Yeah,
I mean, the thing is isthat you have all the stats on
quarter You have completion percentage, youhave completion percentage over expected, which takes

(19:15):
into account how difficult to throw was. You have you know, sack rate,
you have pressure to sack ratio,which is a huge deal and translates
incredibly firmly from college to pro fora lot of quarterbacks. But the big
thing is, you know, whatwe've found out at SUMER, what you've
known forever and and and it wasvery good for you to to sort of
instill this here is you need tostill scout the players. You still have

(19:38):
the inputs because every single time,you know, and I've been doing this,
I've been you know, working infootball for almost ten years now,
and full time, you know,for the better part of a decade,
and it's like, every time I'vemissed on a player in the draft,
there was a personal thing, therewas there was something injury, wise,
there was something medical, there wassomething that you guys in your your field

(20:00):
are almost always able to uncover,right, there are going to be things
that scouts can't uncover. For example, like you know, you're you're sort
of scouting the potential, you're sortof scouting the ability, and we're we're
measuring kind of the we're kind ofmeasuring the production, and and those are
sort of oftentimes two different things.But we really do still need to have

(20:22):
and and affirm grasp on you know, what is his mental makeup? How
how does he get along with histeammates. That's why scouts go to games,
so watch him interact with his teammatesand and and that's something that you
know, with Caleb Williams, he'sbeen mostly a can't miss prospect in this
whole process, but there have beenquestion marks about about some of those things
with him that that I think havebeen have bear mentioning. I think a

(20:45):
guy like Caleb Williams. And again, when when we're talking about all that
other stuff, right, how difficultit is to make that call and to
think, Okay, there are personalityelements. I want to come back to
that a bit, just because Ihave said I think there are teams out
there that might be relieved that theydon't have to make that first pick because
if there's one, two, orthree things that they're trying to figure out.

(21:07):
Personality wise. About Caleb Williams,again, we've heard it. He
is beyond talented. And you don'tlook back if you're talking about let's go
to the most obvious something like paintednails. Is that really an issue?
We've seen some of the toughest guysin the world who are UFC fighters paint
their nails. So I'm not let'slet's keep that in perspective. But do

(21:32):
you start thinking how is that andhow how does that play in and is
that something that plays against what,you know, what your people think within
the building? Again, small thing, but can it build into something that
is a lot more than it is, like it may have going up into
the stands, hanging out with parentsduring the time. Right, there are
things that are talked about that way. You don't think they're big things,

(21:55):
but you want to check them offlike, no, that's fine, We're
good with that, right, AndI think of course Chicago has done that.
Yeah, it's a little I mean, I would just say that there's
always a little bit of resistance inestablished industries like the NFL with people who
are a little bit countercultural, andand that's and countercultural people have contributed a

(22:15):
lot, right, And so ifKayleb Williams comes in and is one of
the best quarterbacks in the NFL,he might open the door for other people
who may not feel a certain way. But until that point, there's always
gonna be question marks about it.And and so I think that that's a
very reasonable thing to to to thinkabout. I when I when I look
at his game, the one thingI do worry about is how when things

(22:40):
broke down last year it was youknow, under pressure, he was not
as as as efficient as he wasthe year before. And you know,
under pressure statistics are pretty flimsy yearto year. But when you're an NFL
quarterback playing on a team that ispicking first, even if you're the Bears
who have got there by trade,you are going to be in a situation

(23:03):
where things are going to break downsometimes. Matt Ebrifus is on year three.
So far in his first two years, they haven't won a lot,
right, Like, how are yougoing to deal with that adversity? At
USC and at Oklahoma there were timeswhen adversity was you know, ran in
his way a little bit, andso to me, I think that that's
that's going to be a question thatwe're all going to have for him,

(23:26):
is how is he going to handleadversity in Chicago. So I want to
backchick for a minute and not putyou on the spot. But you're really
good at being put on the spot. Sure you mentioned earlier, how does
have we ever had a team thatis this good have the first pick and
they have not won a lot.Again, my pushback is, why do
you think they're that good? Well, I think I think that they've built

(23:48):
you know, we want to besemantically responsible, but like the fact is
is there's two teams in that divisionthat started their their regimes at the same
time, Minnesota in Chicago. Minnesotadecide to extend Kirk Cousins a few years
and basically, you know, kindof move forward with that and do a
competitive rebuild, and that has yieldedthem the eleventh pick this draft because they

(24:11):
struggle a little bit after Kirk Cousinsgot hurt and a roster that is has
some pillar players. Jefferson, Darrissaugazakat are who are solid, you know,
very solid pillar pieces. But istheir roster if you look at our
internals here assumers their roster that muchbetter than the Bears. No, and
that's two years in. The Bearsstarted kind of from scratch, right,

(24:32):
and over time they were able tosort of change the offensive line. They
got Braxton Jones in there, theygot done all right in there. They
were able to get Cole Kamett ona contract extension as a tight end who
has been pretty productive. They haveyou know, Keenan Allen, they have
DJ Moore out wide receiver. Atthe running back position, you know,
Roshawn Johnson Khalil Herbert are good players. And then on the defensive side of
the ball. You look at whatthey've been able to do with the draft

(24:56):
picks. Obviously they use Monte thepick on Monto sweat. They go Kyler,
Gordon, Jakwan Brisker, guys likethat, Jalen Johnson, they retained
from the previous regime. And thenthey got two linebackers in free agency,
so Tremade Edmunds and t J.Edwards. So, like, I think
that they're building right, and toyour point, it hasn't accumulated to wins
yet. But from a if youlook it on paper, they're a pretty

(25:18):
good roster. They're a good roster. But we always say, and our
owners always say, in this league, it's about the wins. Right back
to this is a very very importanttime for the Chicago Bears in the top
three, four or five picks,you know, to roll with it,
right, how important that is.So that's having a little bit of technical
difficulties with the camera here. We'regonna pay to me for a second,

(25:41):
uh while, while Matt gets thecamera all fixed up here. But yeah,
they're they're they're a good roster.And and in that vein, I
think that, you know, there'sgoing to be expectations of them that are
a little bit that are that aregoing to be pretty high. And in
that division Minnesota, Chicago, GreenBay and Detroit, I think that that

(26:04):
has the potential to be the bestdivision in the entire NFL for quite some
time. Hopefully we can get thisthe camera thing resolved here. The Bears
are on the clock currently and wehave eminem doing a little bit of an
introduction here as the as they getthe Detroit crowd fired up for the Bears

(26:29):
being on the clock here, let'sgo ahead and throw that up on the
screen here with the Bears being onthe clock, with a few of the
projections that the Bears have. Thomas, when you're in this position right you
were in this position in the beginningof two thousand and eight. What's going
through your mind if you're Ryan Polesright now? Or is it a foregone

(26:52):
conclusion for you? With Matt Ryanthere are two players that it would be
picked ahead. But for Ryan Poles, he kind of knows a priori kind
of who the pick is going tobe. But there's still going to be
butterflies here. Yeah, all youwant to do is make sure just you
want to get to pick in.You want to get it in on time.
You don't want to You want tomake sure that your person at the
draft. By the way, justso everyone knows, the people at the
draft are not the decision makers.It might be the video guy, it

(27:15):
might be the tech guy, it'snot anyone involved in the draft process.
You just hope that person doesn't tripon the way up to delivering the cards
saying exactly who they wanted to pick. But in the end, Ryan Poles
is ready to go. He's beenthinking about this for months and hates sitting
on his hands. I'm sure,yeah, for sure, And luckily,
I think for them, and nowthey got Calvin Johnson running out to the

(27:37):
middle here, one of the great, the great former Detroit line Barry Sanders
coming out here as well. BarrySanders in nineteen eighty nine, Thomas.
That has to be the best topfive of all time right nineteen eighty nine
Troy Aikman won Tony Manders two obviouslyis an issue you have, you had,

(28:02):
and then it was what Barry Sandersand then Derek Thomas and then Deion
Sanders. That top five I thinkwas probably one of the best. You
have Aiden Hutchinson up there as well, who's helped sort of turn around the
Detroit franchise after being picked second.I'm on Ross and Brown as well,
getting that contract extension through through thewindow there as well. So I think

(28:25):
you need to give a shout out, shout out, we're talking Detroit here
for a minute. I mean,what Brad Holmes did, I mean,
and how he how he operates wellwith Dan Campbell. Really happy for him
and proud of him as a friend. I just think he's he's going for
it, and I love how he'sapproaching it. Right. He's got good
support there as you know, he'sgot good support, he's got good presidential

(28:45):
he's got he's got you know,he's got a lot of people helping him
in a lot of positive ways,as as well as Chris Fielman, you
know, being being the good seniorendorser of a lot of really good things.
Well in the fordfit family. Youknow, obviously they had you know,
the Ford family has done a prettygood job of you know, supporting

(29:07):
this team over the past few years. And they were another team Thomas that
when Brad Holmes came in, theywere rebuilding. They you know, they
moved off of Matthew Stafford. Theygot a bunch of draft picks from Matthew
Stafford. They've been able to sortof move ahead, uh, you know,
sort of with the uh you know, with the rebuild, and you
know, they built from the trenchesin a lot of ways. Right.
They had they had Frank greg Nowat center already, they had they had

(29:30):
Taylor Decker there for former first roundpick. But when it came time when
when everybody's asking the question, isit Jamar Chase or is it Pina seoel
Pena Sewell was the pick for forfor Detroit after Cincinnati took Chase. Cincinnati
is probably very happy they have Chase, of course, but the but the
but the Lions have Sewel and nowthey they build with Aman Rossaint Brown in

(29:51):
round four of that year. Uh, both of those guys, by the
way, got contract extensions this pastweek. Looks like Roger by the way
Roger Goodell. Uh. I knowwe're having some issues with the camera here,
but Roger Goodell kind of wearing asimilar get up as we are,
you know, like a white blueshirt underneath a darker blue trim there.
So yeah, so we're we're ina good We're we're in a good we're

(30:14):
in a good stead here with withuh we're a good company. Uh with
with the dress here the Bears areon the clock, nine minutes left.
Hopefully, for the sake of content, the first two picks they can get
off the board quickly. Here.Well, we we've also talked about this
recently. I keep coming back tothis because we've wire talking about everything,
talking about a potential stadium coming aroundthe corner right, which leads me I'm

(30:36):
talking about a Chicago, right whatPresident Kevin Warren has to do made a
massive hire. I know it's alittle off topic here in Ted Cruz bringing
him on from from your Kansas Citychiefs. So I mean where Chicago is
right now, there's a lot goingon in that city, right, and
that organization. About the direction ofthis organization, how important it is,
well, and it's interesting. Solet's talk about that for a second.

(30:59):
Because Kansas City to Chicago, We'vealready had polls go from Kansas City to
Chicago. We have you know,Ted Cruz going from Kansas City to Chicago,
with brand Tillis going from Kansas Cityto Carolina. You start to see
this, right, and you werepart of the Patriot paradigm where you know,
at the beginning, it was Belichick, it was Romeo Crenell, it

(31:21):
was Charlie Weiss, it was Algrow it was it was you, it
was Scott, Scott Pioli, itwas Eric Mangini. It was like the
whole group, right, And obviouslyfor those first you know, the chiefs
of won three Super Bowls in thelast five years. For those first bunch
of Super Bowls, the keeping theband together makes a lot of sense.
But eventually people start to look atit Thomas de Mitrough and be like,

(31:44):
holy holy buckets, this team canactually, you know, draft quite well.
The New England Patriots Canty draft quitewell. What about you know,
let's make him a GM, right, Scott Pioli the same thing. Charlie
Weiss, you know, is reallycalling good plays. Now he's the head
coach. You know, he cameto the head coach in Notre Dame.
Things that Romeo Crenew becomes head coachwith Cleveland, Mangini becomes head coach with
the Jets, And do you seean issue with Kansas City now where it's

(32:07):
like, at some point there's enoughSuper Bowls to win and some of these
guys like Ted Cruz, like BrentTilla, they they they're going to be
sought after elsewhere. And as muchas Andy Reid is brilliant, and as
much as we love Brett Beach andand how much he's played a role in
this, in Patrick Mahomes, thereis an element of there is an element

(32:30):
of how much can you keep thatgroup together? And how much continuity has
played a part in this? Andyou know, with New England, right
after two thousand and four. ThePatriots didnt win another Super Bowl twenty fourteen.
It took a while for them tokind of have that success again.
This is a catch twenty two situationfor an organization, a head coach,

(32:50):
a general manager, even an owner. Right, where's a morale? How
far do you go allowing people toachieve their dreams? How much do you
hold back? If you hold backfor one two years, all of a
sudden, those people that are yourmain people who are loyal to your organization
become a little agitated. Right,So there is a fine line there,
Eric, about allowing people to goand take the interviews and or not and

(33:13):
where you are and how you approachit. There are certain rules out there
if just so everyone knows, ifyou are being interviewed for a final football
say decision making position, the teamcan't hold you back. But there are
a lot of other positions there thatas a team you might want to hold
back. But in the end,you know it's the negative effects of it,

(33:34):
Eric, that you're not coming tothe table to allow these people to
achieve their dreams. That can becomplicated, That can be really really complicated.
So yeah, for sure, andjust a little bit of inside baseball
to your point, where there's somethingcalled a primary football executive and that's basically
a general manager. It depends uponthe situation. There's places like Cincinnati where
Duke Cobin is that person, buthe doesn't have that title of GM.

(33:57):
And then there's what's called the secondaryfootball executive, which again, like there
there are rules about whether or notyou can interview, and when you can
interview, and and and you knowthose teams, you know, they can
go up and uh you know theycan block those for example, and and
in some cases it probably benefits theteam to do so, but it also
can create morale issues, right Andthis, you know, football is just

(34:19):
endeavoring to you know, just likeany other uh, any other UH sport
and any other human endeavor where youknow, it's all about cohesion, it's
all about teammates, it's all aboutthat kind of thing, and it can
be it can be tough. Sokudos to Kansas City for how much they've
been able to keep the band together. So I'm sitting there looking as we're
talking about that, Eric, andI'm looking at the draft room in Chicago

(34:42):
and they're all sitting there waiting.Everyone can say Wow, that's just the
league saying, hey, let's prolongthis and let's let's keep it exciting.
You never know, but you neverdo know. Eric, there may be
in the final moments someone throwing itout. There's some unbelievable offer. You
just never know. And to sitthere and say, I'm going to pull
this the tag off the board atnine minutes and thirty seconds, it's it's

(35:07):
honestly not smart. You just don'tknow. What would you, Thomas do?
By the way, we're split screeninghere now because yeah, so we
just had some technical difficulties with thecamera, but we should be good.
Our superstar producer Matt Stovski on thecall here. So you have me and
Thomas both both of our faces.Thomas that that camera ahead of you there.

(35:30):
What kind of offer if you're theBears here, like just play just
you know, playhouse for a secondhere, right? What if a team
came up and offered you for thispick? What would it have to be,
Like if Washington wanted to move upone spot and take Kayleb Williams,
what kind of offer would it haveto be? It would have to be
extraordinary, Yes, it had tobe extraordinary. It would have to be.

(35:51):
Honestly, for me, it wouldhave to be three, four,
maybe four plus first round picks.I mean, it's going to have to
be into years into the future.It has to be some thing that is
outrageously groundbreaking, which won't happen inthat situation. Yeah, but you need
to step back and see if there'smaybe someone digging into the wine before the
draft. I'm joking. Of courseit would never happen. The you never

(36:13):
know, and and the and thenyour owner has to be on on boards
and and that's what's so hard.It's funny. A couple of weeks ago,
we were meeting with an NBA teamabout them going from one day of
drafting the two days of drafting anduh. And what was really interesting was
this idea of like how fast thepicks come in and how little time you

(36:36):
have. Ten minutes doesn't feel likethat long, but it's you really don't
have the time, I think tomake a lot of these decisions. But
but but you know, somebody couldcome up and give the Bears a godfather
offer for Kleb Williams pick, andthey have to be prepared for that.
He looks a little agitated. It'sinteresting the pick is in. Yes,

(36:58):
pick is in, and and andeverybody. Ryan Poles hugging everybody here,
everybody in that room looking happy.The Bears in all likelihood have gotten their
cornerstone quarterback. We have to waitfor Roger Goodell to go ahead and say
it. But but yeah, inall indications is that it's Caleb Williams with

(37:19):
the Vent with the Bears first pick, and we're moving on to Washington,
who is in all likelihood. Now, we didn't know this last year.
At the time, we were surprisedwith the number two pick and the number
three pick. But we are goingto get Caleb Williams, I think,
as the first pick for the ChicagoBears. So Thomas, our second annual
draft show were one pick in.Caleb Williams, Chicago Bears. Here we

(37:45):
are, I mean, yes,Caleb, nice call, thank you.
Ye well, I'm one for oneso far, one for one so far.
Williams giving everybody some hugs, whichwhich would be great. He looked,
he looked at He actually looks likehe's relieved. I think he's relieved.
And the guy's been waiting. He'sbeen through all of the all of
the interviews at so many levels.And the discussions and trying to dig into

(38:07):
all the stuff that that everyone's beenwondering about just because they do. And
you know, there were people outthere throwing darts just to see what would
happen to the draft order. Butof course he's ready to go. What
a what a really cool pick forthat organization. Let's move forward on the
third quarterback in how many years?Well, I mean, let's even let's

(38:27):
even go through it, right,I mean, the Bears in this in
this century, right, you're talkingabout Rex Grossman, You're talking about Jay
Cutler, You're talking about you know, obviously Mitch Trubisky, and and and
Kate and Justin Fields and now KaylebWilliams. The Bears Thomas have never had
a four thousand yard or thirty touchdownpasser. That's unbelievable to me. And
how you know? So yeah,I mean he's he hopefully is the first

(38:51):
one. I mean, you'd hopethat the Chicago Bears are going to pluck
that one off the board. Herewith with with with Williams and now the
Washington commanders, who the last timethe Washington Commanders are picking second Thomas,
they it was because of a tradeup right, it was they traded all
those picks of the Rams for theright to draft RG three, and RG

(39:14):
three had a phenomenal rookie year,right, he was a pro bowler as
a rookie. And since then,you know, it didn't turn out really
well for them. They've gone tothe well a few times and went with
Dwayne Haskins. It's just been areally rough road for them. Kirk Cousins
was a plus starter for a while, but they let him go. Alex
Smith broke his leg and kind ofa tragic fashion in twenty eighteen, and

(39:37):
so now Washington has the opportunity tomake right at this position and bring Adam
Peters into Adam Peters and Dan Quinninto the fold here after a four and
thirteen year with Sam Hollow quarterback.So I know Dan very well, have
massive respect for him, right,I'm so glad that he's gotten a second

(40:00):
chance to go in here and makea move towards the super Bowl hopefully.
I know that's where his head is. You know, he's done some great
things in this league. Adam Petersfirst time general manager in his I think
mid forties, right, is heforty four? I think Adam comes in
with a very unique perspective. Ofcourse, he was with us at the

(40:21):
New England Patriots. He goes fromthe Patriots over the Broncos, works for
a good friend of mine and avery very talented football man in Matt Russell,
who was with John Elway there fora number of years, right.
And then from there he goes overto San Francisco and works for you know,
he works for John Lynch and thegroup there who knows a lot about
They all know a lot about football, about putting teams together and what he

(40:44):
also comes to the table with right, wrong, or and different, And
no one truly knows what his involvementwas with the quarterback pick. How many
years ago? Was it three yearsago? Was it three years ago?
And you learn from the mistakes ofan organization, right, So I am
sure that Dan Quinn knowing, becauseDan is a very very thoughtful person and

(41:07):
he wants to dig into the good, but he also wants to dig into
the challenges and the mistakes to findout what went awry went awry in San
Francisco when they thought they were goingto get the quarterback for years to come.
You know, I follow up withmister irrelevant who kicks a lot of
button. But there's a quarterback therewho moved on. And so my point
is Adam Peters looks at that andtalks to Dan Quinn a lot about this.

(41:30):
How are we going to avoid theproblem that we had in San Francisco
for another quarterback three years ago?Yeah, and it does look like they're
still on the clock, But itlooks like the big favorite by the time,
by the time the process was comingto a conclusion, was Jaden Daniels.

(41:52):
And it does look like Jaden Danielswill wait for the official pick here,
but it does look like Jaden Danielsis the pick. It looks like
Adam Peters is on the phone withwho he's picking. Here. They kept
it close to the vest, right, they kept They keep everything in San
Francisco close to the vest. They'rekeeping everything close to the best here.
It's the exact opposite, though ThomasRight, Trey Lance was a guy that

(42:12):
threw like less than one hundred passeswhen trailing as a member of the North
Dakota State Bison. Right. Andnow you have Jade Daniels, who's been
in college football for five years,and so you got a lot of film
and a lot of him in allkinds of circumstances in the Pact twelve,
in the SEC with great receivers,with less less good receivers. So you
have almost the exact opposite in Danielshere with respect to you know what it's

(42:36):
going to look like for the Washingtoncommanders as far as do they know what
they're getting. The Niners didn't reallyknow what they were getting in Trey Lance.
What they saw was, Okay,we've made the super Bowl with Jimmy
Garoppolo, We've won games with NickMullins and cz Bethy, not not as
many, but there's only so farthat kind of midliner quarterback can take you,

(42:57):
right, And so they in theSuper Bowl in two thousand and nine,
they lost a ten point lead tothe Chiefs in the in the in
the in the fourth quarter, andthey said, look, we want a
quarterback that can be Patrick Mahomes andTrey Lance. You know, and if
you squinted, could have those traits. It never materialized for them, and
and now you know, you endup with a different guy here in Daniels,

(43:17):
hopefully with with all all kinds ofthat potential there. So Trey Lance,
as we know By the way,there were gaps in his performance right,
gaps in participation. In twenty twenty, he played one game exactly the
whole fall. Those are the thingsthat I think you have to truly learn
from. Yes, that can happenout of the positions, and they can

(43:37):
rise to the occasion. When you'retalking about a quarterback, you're you're you're
walking a very fine line. Therecould be a linebacker, a d M
that's a little different. The factthat Jaden Daniels continued to get better all
the time is something that I love. I know we've talked about that.
Some can argue otherwise, And thereare other stats out there that that you've

(43:58):
talked about before that are learning forJaden might not be for the average person.
Someone like you who understands the dataside would say, okay, look
into this, which is what welike right. Ultimately, I do believe
that the ability to scramble and thestat that you want to talk about very
quickly is a concern. I thinkit has something to do at least of

(44:21):
my humble opinion of his ability tobe so athletic and so able and capable
of playmaking that at times those guyslike Caleb, they'll scramble and they'll put
themselves in a tough spot because theythink they can do more than anyone else
on the planet, because they arerare athletes. And we've seen that with
Patrick Mahomes right, he can preroll an offense because he can move out

(44:42):
and really protect his offensive line.I think that that's the potential with Daniels.
But both Daniels, May and Williamshave all had high pressure to sack
ratios in their career. You know, for example, as you can see
on our screen, eight among thequarterbacks in this class. But he's good
everywhere else, of course. UhAnd so it's gonna be it's gonna be
a question mark as to whether Washingtoncan build that offensive line around him.

(45:06):
Let's go ahead. It is Danielswith the pick to Washington. What we
have though at Summer Sports, Thomas, and you are very instrumental in this,
uh is we have a scouting staffand and our scouts have have have
done some some some write ups andsome and some voiceovers on some of these
players. Let's go ahead and throwto Matt the the voiceover that we have

(45:27):
for Kayleb Williams tape. Ben It'spretty obvious. He's an amazing athlete.
He can beat his legs, he'sgot an outstanding arm, so I don't

(45:50):
think it takes much to see.He's a playmaker, no doubt. However,
what struck me the most after watchingseven or eight of his tapes is
his ability to win within the pocket, which ultimately you have to do no
matter how good an athlete you arein the NFL, you got to win
in the pocket. He's got aninnate, aware, gonna innate feel.

(46:10):
He can beat you with pocket mechanics, and he can beat you with athletic
ability. I would love to seehim. And that was That was Mike
Mayock, the the former general managerof the Las Vegas Raiders and UH and
a former you know scout for NFLNetwork as well as he talked about Kayleb

(46:36):
Williams. I know we'll go aheadand we'll do a few more of those
in the future here, but JadenDaniels is the pick for Washington. We
now are on the clock with theNew England Patriots. This is a one,
Thomas, where I do believe thatthe New England Patriots are at least
going to entertain trades right when you'rethinking about when you're thinking about minnesot of

(47:00):
Vikings at eleven, when you're thinkingabout when you're thinking about the Denver Broncos
at twelve, even the New YorkGiants at six. This is a situation
where I think that they should atleast be taking offers. They have to
take offers. But in the end, we know where New England is,

(47:22):
we know what they need. Weknow they haven't had anyone since Tom Brady
and beyond right at the quarterback position. And yes, the feeling is let's
continue to trade back like they've alwaysdone there. But I also believe that
Elliott Wolf this is his first timeat the helm basically making the picks.

(47:44):
He comes from the Green Bay Packers. His father was a longtime general manager.
They've been around quarterbacks. I justdon't see them trading out of this
spot, and I don't personally.I would not like to see it.
Personally. I'd like to see themhang, and I'd like to see them
continue to build at that position.Okay, and the pick is in,
so they are picking, and theyhave gone with Drake May of North Carolina.

(48:09):
So we have no trade so far. First three picks, best three
quarterbacks are off the board. DrakeMay, North Carolina, you have some
connections with the tar Heels this,you know. Again, I have my
concerns about their roster, but ifthey're going to get a quarterback into the
building, Thomas, this feels likethe right quarterback to get in the building,

(48:30):
I think it's the right quarterback.I mean to me, this is
the type of guy that New Englandneeds to step in after a long you
know, a long run with aguy like Tom Brady. I think it's
ideal for them. Smart, youknow, represents very very well and maybe

(48:51):
not the same status of athleticism ofthe first two quarterbacks taken. But again,
those guys were rare. In mymind, this guy is still Drake
May is still a very good athleteand a big guy who moves around well
like we're talking about right, youknow, like some of the quarterbacks out
there that you don't have to besix feet anymore and moves like some of

(49:13):
these guys. These guys continue toblow me away being as big as they
are and move and I think he'sone of those guys. Does he have
some learning and growth to do?Yes? Do you make sure you surround
him with the right people. Yes, be interesting to see what they do.
As far as building around him.When you were evaluating him, what
did you think his weaknesses were?Like why, for example, why do

(49:34):
you think that Washington went with JadenDaniels instead of May? Like what do
you think that the stack breaking wasthere? Or here? Conversely, if
the draft order was changed, ifNew England was picking second and Washington was
picking third, do we still getthe ordering of Daniels in May? Or
do you think that this is kindof a cliff Kingsbury likes Daniels type of
thing and May is kind of morethat big physical guy who can win up

(50:00):
in the northeast. Like what doyou think do you think that that these
two are close together or do youthink that there's a gap. And if
there's a gap between May and Daniels, where's that gap originate from? Personally?
I think they come to the tablewith some similarities, of course,
not the same athletic ability as Ijust mentioned. I just think on the
Drake May thing, I think there'sa little more maybe over analyzing, and

(50:24):
some of that element I think isgoing to have to settle in right where
I think. I think watching JaydenI think there was felt like there was
a little bit more intuitive, likelet's just go, let's make the play.
A little bit of overthinking a littlebit maybe on my mind on the
Drake May side, although let mejust say, I mean I love them.

(50:45):
I think it's a really both ofthose guys are I think, closer
than than we really think. Andagain, to have three quarterbacks like this
with this much talent, no one'swalking away going gosh, we kind of
we kind of ended up with thisguy, which whiching me in my last
question because now the Cardinals, sothe Goodell has announced the pick now,
so it is May Cardinals around theclock at four. You asked me this

(51:07):
question today when we were hanging out. What's the first pick that's going to
get traded? You said, Arizona. I said New England. So I
was wrong, you still could be. You still could be right here with
respect to this. Do we thinkthat the Cardinals stay here or do we

(51:28):
think that they trade out? Ithink they think about trading out. I
think every team here has thought abouttrading out. It's incumbent upon them to
make sure they dig in to decidewhat's there. But because it is such
a prime receiver group that I thinkMonty awesome for Remember everyone, Monty comes
from New England. He has avery good feel for what we did for

(51:49):
many years as far as trading back, and I think he's going to dabble
in that and see, hey,look I could go back a handful here
and still get a legitimate receiver continueto build around around our quarterback. So
I think they seriously are considering this. Yeah, I think so too.
I also think Harrison is the favoritehere and it might just end up being

(52:12):
a choky thing. Marvin Harrison,for my money, the for my money,
Thomas Marvin Harrison the best wide receiverin this class. I know that
there's a little bit in the wayof you know, Milik Neighbors, you
know, has a great deal ofpotential as well. But yeah, that

(52:32):
to me, I think that that'sa winning on the outside as an X
receiver is a rare trait. Soyeah, so I think that that's a
pretty I think that that's what separatesHarrison here. There's about five minutes left
on the clock. I do itdoes not look like they're trading it though
right now with Arizona. So ifArizona does pick, I do think it

(52:54):
is Harrison, which will you know, you think about Arizona right with Montiage
support building that team up. Theyhave eleven picks in this draft, one
at the end of the first round. So well, Steve Kahin was there
and he made some big picks overthe years, right prior to Monty getting
there, They've had some big receiversthere. Right, how do you look

(53:15):
You've seen, you've seen, andyou've looked at the data on Marvin Harrison.
I mean when you look about MarvinHarrison, you look at some of
the talent that Arizona has had inthe past. Is it a market difference
for you? Or do you think, hey, they need another big guy
in there. Come in at what'swhat is six o three to two?

(53:36):
I mean he's a big guy,two ten to fifteen ish Harrison. Yeah,
we so, yeah, he's inthat six four like two ten range
or so. And I think thatwhen it comes to you know again,
I think he kind of reminds mea little bit of a J Green a
little bit. I know everybody's gonnatalk about his dad, Marvin Harrison Senior,
But like I think, I thinkwhen I think about him, I

(53:57):
think about a guy that can winon the outside. He did not test
though, and it's interesting here there'sa question I have for you. So
he has not signed up, hehas not like given his release to be
on like like to do image andlikeness with the NFL. He didn't test
at all. He didn't do anyinterviews at the combine, he didn't do
a pro day, Like there isa little bit of a worry there too.

(54:17):
But you know, knowing where hecomes from, as far as his
family's concerned, knowing his production atOhio State, all those things, like
it eliminates a lot of the uncertaintyfor me. But it is interesting,
isn't it. No, But itis interesting and like those kind of things
for NFL people, what used tobe a real issue. I mean there
were guys and there were staffs,like the most respected guy out there in

(54:42):
Bill Pollian, who they would notdraft players if they didn't have a three
cone you know, if they didn'thave their complete data set on these players
and they didn't work out. Theywould threaten that they and a lot of
people would do that, right.They would call the agents say, look,
we're not drafting your guy. Theagent's like, yeah, you'll draft
him. Believe me, even ifhe doesn't have a broad jump or a

(55:04):
vertical jump, you'll draft him.But it was just one of those things
that everyone wanted complete. And youknow the fact that he might not have
worked out of the combine or ordidn't complete his set, so to speak.
We all know where he comes from, and he comes from such good
people's good stock. As they say, I don't think they're concerned about that.

(55:25):
He looks like he's ready to roll. I think there's no trading out
of this pick right now. He'sready to the pick is the pick is
Harrison. And so I look atthe Cardinals, right you look at the
Rams, We're a pop up team. Last year, no one expected them
to do much. You know,the Niners obviously were in the Super Bowl,
and Seattle had a winning record.But I look at the Cardinals in

(55:46):
that NFC West and I think tomyself, you got a head coach that
has a clue. I think Gannonis a very good head coach. You're
starting to build things right. Murraycame back from injury, played pretty well.
They're going to need some offensive linehelp. I think they'll probably get
that later in the first round.Defensively, they need some pillar players,
they need a pass rush, theyneed some good players in the secondary.

(56:07):
But this is a team I thinkis starting to build things the right way,
and you know, you can't.I think in a few years we're
not gonna be able to deny,you know, where the Cardinals are moving
up. They kind of remind mea little bit of the Lions, as
you said, with Brad Holmes andkind of how they started started everything.
Here the Los Angeles Chargers are onthe clock. Now, this is the

(56:27):
team that I thought, Look,you know, I thought New England was
going to trade the third pick,but they didn't. This team now,
now we're starting to get into JJMcCarthy territory. With the betting market on
JJ McCarthy was five and a half, meaning you if you bet under on
JJ McCarthy pick position and he doesn'tgo here, you lose. And so

(56:51):
I think a lot of people thinkthat the Chargers are going to leverage this
pick. JC Latham was being toutedto them most recently, and I don't
think Jac Latham is a top fivepick in this draft, and so I
think people are trying to connect theChargers to Latham after a trade. And
so you got to think that JoeHorties, Corey Kraivik, the former Ravens

(57:12):
Brass very trader, you know,very trader heavy there trading back a lot.
They're gonna be on the clocks rightnow, on the clock right now,
trying to trade that pick. Ifthey stay there, they have some
pretty good options though. Joe alltto tackle from Notre Dame, best tackle
on the board by many people's obviously. You also have Milik Neighbors, the
wide receiver from LSU as well.Chargers really can't go wrong here with picking

(57:35):
a player or trading the pick.No, And I think for them when
you read about what you know JimHarbaugh is saying about O line and how
important that is to them, buildingthe right way and making sure that they
continue to protect for someone that wethink is an incredibly talented quarterback, right
I mean Herbert. If he hasthe right situation around him, I think

(57:59):
that he can be one of thebest. That's what I believe. I've
always believed he has such skill,and I think that when Jim comes in,
Jim is gonna they've looked this upand down. The only way though,
back to your point, there aresome good offensive linemen, and if
they traded back, you know,they could trade back into a spot and
still get a bona fide o linemanthat can continue to protect very well.

(58:22):
Are they top five guys? Idon't believe so, Like you're saying,
yeah, exactly. And their otherquestion is, you know, right tackle
left tackle has been less of animportant thing over the years, but you
know they already have a Shawn Slaterthere at left tackle. Joe Alt has
been almost always a left tackle whenhe's played a notre game. You know

(58:43):
there is some projection there, rightand moving a guy over and having him
play right handed when he's been playingleft hand in his whole career is going
to be a projection. So Ican understand why they maybe want a guy
like jac Latham to come in andplay right tackle for them in a road
grading fashion. Well, I think. I mean, here we are in
a situation where, okay, let'stalk about the people that are knocking on

(59:06):
the door. What's going on rightnow? I guarantee they're on both banks
of the phones. Remember having saidthat there's an NFC bank of phones and
a AFC bank of phones, andthey're taking they're taking calls right now,
there's no question about and they're tryingto sift through it to decide on do
they move or not. And it'snot an easy decision. Remember, guys

(59:28):
like you, I'm saying you,the high intellects, the nerds the door
now you can say that. Andthey're working with their trade calculators right now.
They are going deep into this totry to decide whether they should do
this or not. Don't think theyhaven't gone over and over it right now.
Of course they have. But theremight be new ideas coming in,

(59:49):
new decisions, new phone calls saying, not only is it the players that
we've talked about, or excuse me, the draft slots, but we're interested
in moving some players as well.You never know how it's yeah, and
moving players is harder. But liketo your point that there's a couple of
players Brandon Ayuk uh and Uh BrandonAyuk as well as as well as t

(01:00:14):
Higgins who are both on the onthe block today, like those trades are
going to require some cap maneuvers thatthat to make it work. It does
look like, well, the Chargershave yet to trade the pick, and
so we're in a we're in awe're in a pretty good Uh we're in
a like, I think a positionwhere they're about to be on off the

(01:00:35):
clock here and having and having actuallyuse the pick, and okay, yeah
this is yeah. So it lookslike, unless unless our wires are getting
cross here, it looks like JoeWalt is the pick Thomas. Look,
I'm happy for him. I mean, he's the Vaselli like know, addition

(01:01:00):
to an organization. I think,you know, build build around him.
We talk about pillar players all thetime. You know, the bloodlines that
he has, right, I mean, look, this is the type of
guy that I can imagine they're headcoach not looking back if in fact he
does take JJ McCarthy uh is onis still on the board and the next

(01:01:23):
of the quarterback needy teams, theGiants are right there. And so now
now, okay, well let's let'smake sure and confirm that Joe Alt's to
pick our producer extraordinary Matt Stofsky,a Giants fan. Uh and uh it
is looking at me with some disgust, but but yeah, it's a it's

(01:01:46):
for sure a a really trying timehere. I actually want to dive deeply
with you on the Giants here onceonce we get confirmation that it is all
so far. No trades, bythe way, first, first five picks,
no trades. A lot of fanfair goes into these trades. But
top top ten picks, you don'tget them very often. I was,

(01:02:06):
I was on the phone with oneof my friends who has one of these
picks, and I said, thismight be the highest you ever pick,
right, and so you get,you get a pillar player. Talk about
Tony Biselli. Bisselli, of coursewas the Jaguars one of their I believe
their first draft pick of all time, and obviously you know made I think
made the Hall of Fame like avery pillar player. The Jacksonville Jaguars were

(01:02:28):
in the AFC championship came the secondyear of their existence. Uh, and
very much because they built around him. And obviously Mark Brunell was a big
part. Is called Tom Coughlin.But but that you can't go wrong there.
He's gonna have to switch sides withwith Slater there. But but a
very very good pick. Let's talkabout Joe Ortiz for a minute, the
new general manager there who you onetime called Horowitz. Yeah, I did

(01:02:52):
on that on air. I thereason I say that is because we all
we had caught up in names ofthe guys that we know. How many
times have I messed up on someof your data people that I know are
big time names. And I saythat because it's funny, like, look
here we are. Joe Ortiz iskind of an unknown commodity amongst the media.

(01:03:14):
It's like when I went in,I want to talk about feeling embarrassed
when I went in to flip thecoin coin for Matt Ryan and the head
of all of personnel in the leaguesees me walk in and he's like,
what in the hell are you doingin here? We said, no media
in here. They thought I wassome media. Well, that's just because
you're that's just because you got greathair and rest well. But they didn't

(01:03:37):
know who I was. The pointis what Joe Ortiz some people don't know
Joe. Joe is a very good, talented football man. He's going to
work really well with with the Ravensare in the similar position. I mean,
we saw this, so let's let'sback up before. And by the
way, we've gotten word a littlebit that from ESPN that teams are calling
about Justin Herbert. Justin Herbert doesn'thave a tradable contract, by the way,

(01:03:59):
So that I think is a toughlook for the NFL there calling about
him, meaningwy they want to theywant to trade for him, which of
course you would want to trade forJustin Herbert. He's one of the top
five quarterbacks in the whole league.But how how okay, So the Ravens
ortiz right, he leaves, theythey they lose Mike McDonald as well to

(01:04:23):
Seattle who will see later today,you have all kinds of movement from that
franchise. Now, they don't havethe Super Bowls in the last decade to
show for it, but they've goneahead and and really done. You know,
they've done a great job of beingcontenders every year. But they're going
to have to rebuild in large partbecause they've lost a lot of not only
talented players like Patrick Queen and thingslike that, but they've lost coaches and

(01:04:46):
executives to two other teams. Uh, the Chargers are the beneficiary here as
they plucked Joe Aalt off the board. I think as we go they have
not yet, right, we're stillwaiting for it. I well, we
got word through our sect that he'sthe pick. In fact, we actually

(01:05:08):
OK. We actually I think knowwho the next team that picked is,
but we'll keep the listeners in suspense. And I'm assuming a lot of people
are on sort of double screens herelistening to us, but also watching the
show, so we don't want tosort of ruin it for everybody on air
here. The fact that the Chargersturned away trade off of calls for Justin

(01:05:29):
Herbert, like, think about that. Yeah, that means they believe in
them. That means, you know, when they drafted him. And I
have a great deal of respect forthe Spanos family and John Spano's the president
there. We've talked over years andyears, and I just think they have
a real grasp of what they trulywant there. Right even coming into this
year with picking the quarterback, excuseme, picking the coach they wanted,

(01:05:50):
a GM they wanted, and nowpotentially well now a left tackle that they
can build around is a big,big deal for that organization and that family.
Kudos to them, they've been lookingfor this. Yeah, let's talk
about the Giants at six year becausethe Giants at six in twenty nineteen took
Daniel Jones out of Duke had anokay rookie year mostly injured, mostly ineffective.

(01:06:12):
Twenty twenty two, he played incredibly. You know, he played pretty
good football considering a decent yeah,a decent amount of injuries at wide receiver.
By the way, they're looking aton the on the NFL network brought
ESPN broadcast. I'm sorry they golooking at John Alt, which is Joe's

(01:06:32):
father. John Alt was the twentyfirst overall pick by the Chiefs in nineteen
eighty four, the year after theytook Todd Blackledge at quarterback. The Giants,
though, a year after giving DanielJones eighty more than eighty million dollars
guaranteed forty million a year a yearafter that, right, Joe Shane and

(01:06:58):
that they punched above their way class. I know in the second half of
the season they did dable in company. I thought got that team up and
playing really good football. But Ido they move off of Daniel Jones here
at pick six. I have ahard time thinking they're going to do that
because they come in and they sellto mister Marra, John Marra, and

(01:07:21):
they say, look, we lovethis guy, let's give him the money.
They all agree he has an injury. They still need to see what
he is I just have a hardtime thinking and I'm not getting out.
Do we already know who the pickis? I think I think we.
I think they think it's going tobe a quarterback. No, okay,
that's what I'm hoping, because Idon't see how as a GM and a

(01:07:44):
head coach you could pick a quarterbackafter putting that kind of money. So
they're not trading the pick. No, it doesn't look like I think.
I'm sorry, and it doesn't.It looks like they're going to go with
a position that they had not surroundedDaniel Jones with really well sends Odell Beckham
Juniors. It's a leak Neighbors,which is I like this? So they
go Jalen Hyatt round two. Lastyear, they go Neighbors here. Round

(01:08:08):
three last year, they go ElikNeighbors this year in the first round.
Obviously, they have Waller, who'sstill there depending upon whether he comes back
offensive line. They've already gotten thetwo pillars. Whether Neil turns out well
is another story. But they haveAndrew Thomas, whos an all Pro Evan
Neil at tackle. They you know, they lost Barkley in the offseason,

(01:08:30):
so this is going to be areally big testing year for Daniel Jones,
but at least they're giving him aweapon in Elik Neighbors, who, like
I said, I think is thesecond best wide receiver in this draft,
but I think it's close. ButI think the fact that he has some
versatility inside outs that helps the Giantshere. Yeah. Look, I think
I think when you're talking about areceiver for this group, after what they've

(01:08:51):
done, they need to figure outwhat they're doing with with the tight end
position. The only thing we evertalked about Eric they're not trading it,
of course, was that they mightmove back and think about a guy like
Rock. Yeah, brock Bauer isthe only so yeah, brock Bauers the
only tight end, running back,linebacker, safety projected to go in the
first round of this draft. Sofar, pick us in looks like the

(01:09:16):
Giants are going to go with Neighbors. Titans around the clock, everybody sort
of thought the Titans were going togo Joe alt here, and that was
because they thought that JJ McCarthy wouldbe a top five quarterback, right,
and everything get pushed down. Aswe've said repeatedly, Thomas, what happened
in this draft show last year willEvis fell right, there's a cut line

(01:09:40):
at the quarterback position. And afterthat cut line, these teams like and
you've taught me this so much inour friendship and also like our working relationship
the teams in the first round ofthe draft, you only get to pick
this high so many times. Ifthe quarterback isn't a truly elite player,
a truly prospect, they're gonna gofor the pillars, right, They're gonna

(01:10:02):
go defensive end, They're gonna gotleft tackle, they're gonna go wide receiver,
They're gonna go And that feels likewhat that feels like? What is
happening to McCarthy here? Now?What's interesting is Titans aren't gonna take a
quarterback here, and unless they tradethe pick, the Falcons are gonna have
a chance to take Jay McCarthy,which takes us to your old team what

(01:10:25):
you said about them for years,which is Matt Ryan drafted at three,
missed one and a half games duringhis whole career, just retired this week.
One of the reasons the Falcons hadto go out and spend forty five
million a year on Kirk Cousins.They never drafted his successor, Matt Ryan.
That is, do they right thewrong here and go with a quarterback.

(01:10:50):
Now, I know we're a pickahead here with the Falcons, but
we're sort of assuming that the Titansdon't go with quarterback here. But that's
something to think about for everybody,like that might be the first I have
a pivot point here. Look,I think I would love to see them
hone in on that quarterback position atAtlanta. I love what they've done.

(01:11:11):
They've spent a lot of money.I get it on a quarterback this year,
but let's just say hypothetically he's herefor one and a half to two
years, say two years, tohave a quarterback in the hopper and grow
and learn with a really good offensethere. Right, they have some good
offensive talent there, you know,grow with Kirk Cousins and grow with a
young quarterback. I think it wouldbe fun to watch and see how that

(01:11:32):
plays out. So I hope thatthey seriously consider that. I know the
city of Atlanta, I feel likethey're pushing towards pass rusher here, but
I just think it's important for themto think about what would happen, right,
Yeah, if a quarterback who's thirtysix plus years old, comes off
of Achilles and there's some slow progression. Well, and and he's, like

(01:11:57):
you said, he's thirty six yearsold. He's also, you can speak
to this, a very good passer, but also not. I mean the
reason he was a fourth round pickout of Michigan State is he's not.
He doesn't have the kind of armstrength that you know, Aaron Rodgers has
that you know, even Tom Bradyhad when he was you know, to
be a quarterback in your late thirties, even your guy Matt Ryan, like
as as it got older, rightit got So are the Falcons gonna you

(01:12:23):
know, are they gonna be surprisedat what comes out of the box with
Kirk Cousins this year? And arethey gonna wish they took an opportunity to
take a quarterback here and sit Andthis is a good enough offense, by
the way, where JJ McCarthy verymuch could sit and be be a player
for them in a couple of yearsas opposed to having to play right away
where I think he'll struggle. Well, all of that said, when you

(01:12:45):
start talking about explosive offensive players,just to touch on the league neighbors love
the league neighbors as a player right. We've talked about route running, ability,
explosiveness, speed, catch the ballaround him, and add lib as
he needs to body control. Imean, this guy is a stud.
He is competitive and confident. Imean, I don't know if you could
pull off that leak the deal thathe has on I couldn't. I don't

(01:13:13):
think you have the confidence. Ihave confidence, but not that much.
Yes, Titans pick is close here. I don't think they're trading it either
without without Alt on the board.They went with Scarronsky last year in the
top ten. Do they go withI mean, is this the place where
jac Latham comes off the board?This is this is a place where I

(01:13:36):
just can't imagine they don't go lineright? But who is it? Right?
Is Latham? Is it? Imean? Where are we? We
are are by the way, areare like scouting a lot of scouts like
Fashanu right. He they've kind ofput him up there in a similar vein
that the tackle out of Penn Statewith with Alt, so that that could

(01:13:57):
be an option there. It's reallyat this point what you prefer and whether
the styles make fights here. Lathamcan also play can you know, play
right tackle? So that's a that'sa positive there. Uh. And you
know they got rid of Derrick Henrythis year. Their running backs this year
are going to be Tony Pollard,They're going to be ty J. Spears
from Tulane. And those are notguys that are necessarily going to be big

(01:14:17):
players in terms of yards after contact. Thomas, right, those those tough
yards you're gonna need. They're gonnaneed to open more holes in Tennessee than
they have in previous years because theirrunning back is in this moose that that
Derrick Henry is. So I dothink offensive line makes sense, and so
your you can speak to this aswell as somebody who actually has drafted both
types of players and both types ofplayers in the high ends of the draft.

(01:14:40):
It's a much higher hit rate togo tackle wide out because of the
way that second round wideouts do thanto go wide out tackle. If they
go with Roma Dunes that here asthe third best wide receiver versus the second
best tackle, they can go outand get at pick thirty eight, which
is their next pick, go outand get a wide receiver there and probably
do Okay, the pick is inand it is J. C. Latham.

(01:15:00):
Thomas, very good job, JaconLaith. I was just gonna throw
a little bit of a Devil's advocateto you and say, you know,
do they really believe in their quarterback? And would are they thinking that they
did that? But now it's secondguessing, but they haven't because they're going
JC. How hard would it beif you go Willis last two years ago?
Levis and then a quarter Yeah?But but some of that wasn't ran

(01:15:21):
Karth. I remember the John Robintonwas the one who took Melik Willis,
and Rand was the one who tookLevis, and Ran I think has so
far done a really good job theTitans. By the way, le Jerry
Sneeden, free agency, Calvin Ridley, your former draft pick in free agency,
Tony Pollard and free agency. Ithink they're going to be a team
that surprises people in the AFC Southdespite not having a ton of fanfare.

(01:15:45):
J C. Latham, let's talkabout him a little bit. Yeah,
Now do you think that that youyou mentioned him early? Did you think
all along that was the pick forthem as an offensive alignment? I?
I mean his best traits presumer scoutor play strength, toughness. Right,
you're looking at a lot of whatBill Callahan wants in an offensive lineman,

(01:16:10):
right, and and you want tobe able to road grade a little bit.
You that offense is with Will Levisand his ability. Will Levis is
not an accurate passer relative the restof the league. You want to be
like you you he was on yourcoaching staff for a while, Mike Tice.
Power running game, vertical passing game. Right, that's what they're trying
to do in Tennessee. And that'swhere Calvin's there. That's why Deandre's there.

(01:16:31):
And he seems to me the kindof guy I remember when the Vikings
took Phil loadholdt right, you think, and you know that kind of big
and I you know Loadhold was six' nine, three eighty or whatever the
hell, so like it's hard toreplicate that, but but I think about
that, like power running game,vertical passing game. I think he is.
He is good for that scheme comesfrom a system, comes from a
you know, a coaching tree thatyou know, you're you're proud to have.

(01:16:56):
Let's go back to father and sonfor a second, because we haven't
a chance to talk about that.You know, a head coach who gets
you know, who gets the opportunityto come in there and bring his father
in as the old line coach.Has that ever happened before? I'm not
sure if it has. I don'tthink that that has ever. I think,
you know, we've had father sonlike Don Shulan and Dave Shulan.

(01:17:16):
We had, you know, we'vehad that happen in a decent number of
times. But I don't think we'vehad the older dad. Maybe was Monte
Kiffen ever working for Lane Kiffin.Probably not, I don't think. I
don't think. Yeah, But you'rewhat you're saying is I mean, this
is a huge coup for the Titans. Like Brian Callahan when we look at
some of our numbers, because wehave models for fantasy and betting and stuff,

(01:17:39):
but like our efficiency numbers for theBengals in the second half of the
year were incredibly high, and theywere working with Jake Browning and t Higgins
was hurt some of the times tomartinist some of the times the offensive line
wasn't the best thing in the world. I'm thinking, like, how much
of that Brian Callian's contributed, Likehe's a good higher and then he brings
in his dad who has turned aroundevery offensive line he's ever touched. And

(01:18:00):
so I'm thinking, again, thisis a coup. And the fact that
again the keys coming in as theas what you said, which is the
highly paid offensive line coach pretty good, pretty good and one of the most
respected O line coaches out there,right along with Dante Scarnekia, who we've
talked about many, many times.And and I just I just think it's
a really cool opportunity. What areyou going on? WHOA Thomas? What

(01:18:23):
happens? The Falcons pick is in? Oh? And it's a stunner you
already know. And I got atext throw a friend that is just lol.
I'm seeing it in the league.I'm seeing it in the league.
Thing here? Does that mean corner? No? No, quarter, quarter

(01:18:45):
not corner? Okay, but it'sa stunner. It's a stunner though because
he's from the West Coast. Wow, am I am? I projecting all
the way out there? Does hehave a left element to him? He
does? So all of the WestCoasters are going to be outrageously happy.
Do you know Jed Fish been therefor how long? Jed Fish has been

(01:19:09):
there for like a like four months? Yeah, Jed's got really good contacts
in the Falcon world, as hedoes with the head coach there at Atlanta.
Now, yeah, wow, areyou sure I'm seeing it multiple different
sources. Let's I mean, okay, so the the what we're seeing is

(01:19:31):
that Michael Pennix Junior is the Falconspick at eight. Okay, I'm I'm
stunned. Yes, I thought thiscould have been Dallas Turner. I thought
it could be like to lots.You know, we have eight picks and
none of them have been defensive players. So far, we're fourth of the
way through the draft. Eight picks, none of them have been defensive players.

(01:19:54):
Yeah, we're getting confirmation that itis Panic. Can you please give
me some some data on where ishe projected to go? Where? Where?
Where were the betting lines? Sothe betting market had had his expected
draft position around thirty two and ahalf. So he was basically, at
one point in the process a coinflip to go in the first round and
now he's going at eight. Wow. That that's uh, I mean,

(01:20:17):
so let's let's step back on that. Yeah, I mean, because I
think it's a really I'm really happythat they have a young quarterback to come
in there. You know, howI felt about that they couldn't revisit what
happened the last two or three years, right, very very important. So
okay, they I'm sure they lovedthe top three. There must have been

(01:20:40):
something about JJ McCarthy right that theydidn't like, I would assume, and
but that they loved about this guy. This guy is talented. We know
that. We've talked about. He'sTally Matt's producer, Matt tops to Watson
in the room. No, he'she's a he's a he's a big guy.
Left best pressure to sack ratio ofthe group or him and Nicks were

(01:21:00):
really good. Obviously, he playedreally well in the in the playoff game
against Texas. He played less wellagainst Michigan. Well, I don't think
people expected him to go before RomaDunza, his wide receiver. That is
pretty Remember some people think Michael Pennisis a big, really big guy.
He's six to two. It's notlike he's six' five and he's not
like a hulking guy. No,he's about two fifteen sixteen. He's probably

(01:21:26):
a four to seven guy. Like, he's not a speed merchant. You
know, he's got a lot ofpositives about him. He is a good
football player. I don't. Imean, I know you're thinking of betting
lines and everything, like he's he'stalented. He's talented. Look if he
I mean, there was a timeyou know, you know what Patrick mahomes
Is expected draft position was in hisdraft, because I bet it was fifteen
and a half. He went ten. People were people were pretty pretty juiced

(01:21:50):
uff that he went ten. Right, he ends up being the best quarterback
in the league. If Michael Penixcomes in and in two years, right,
he's the best quarterback in the league. No one's gonna gimm a crap
where where he went twenty four picksahead of projection? Right, No one
don't care. This is one ofthose guys. Okay, here we go.
That are again. He's smart,he's pro ready. He is a

(01:22:11):
guy that could play right away.But you don't need your guy necessary to
play right away. Right. That'sThat's one of the things that I think
is interesting. And you know,there we are. This is why you
want to be on the Suomer Sportstwenty twenty four NFL Draft Show, brought
to you by Underdog Fantasy. UnderdogFantasy, you get one hundred percent match

(01:22:34):
on any deposit up to one hundreddollars with the promo code Sumer Underdog Fantasy,
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(01:22:56):
really thrilled that they are our sponsoredfor the show under Fantasy promo code Sumer.
Yeah, man, Michael Pennix quarterbackwon and pressure to sack race show
per stats bomb ten point right halfas low, half as big, I'm
sorry, as as j Now,remember let's pull this around our guy Raheem

(01:23:19):
Morris, right, spent time inTampa. Do you know the high school
and where our guy Michael Penix isfrom. Good question, No, Tampa,
Florida, Tampa Bay Tech. Wow, so Indiana? Right, Washington
through Indiana. I mean, welltraveled Raheem Morris. Also, you know

(01:23:39):
when he was the head coach ofthe Bucks there is it took took Josh
Freeman with his first pick, right, and you know that was a a
guy who showed some potential. Itdidn't end up working out because of uh,
you know I think when when GregCiano got there, it was not
necessarily what he wanted. But butyeah, Rahie Morris, it's a second

(01:24:00):
chance at the plate as a asa head coach in the NFL. He
takes a quarterback and Michael Pennix rightaway and the Bears around the clock and
that picture. Yeah, no trades, by the way, first eight picks
of the draft. No trades.Okay, well, no trades is very
very unbelievable and almost unfathomable. I'mwatching the draft room here at the Falcons,

(01:24:24):
which I spent many years at.Looks like they're doing the same thing.
They're spending time talking about the pick. They look relieved and happy that
they got a quarterback for the future. And again you're talking about a guy
who has a lot that he bringsto the table. They must have cleared
up. Any of the injury concerned, Well, he hasn't missed any When

(01:24:45):
you look at our models at SUMER. He has actually some really good projected
games missed information, and he's mostlysince getting to Washington, and he has
not been injured. I mean,I think he played through something a little
bit last year, but for themost part, he's been healthy. Right
not. You know, I thinkit's a lot less than what than what
you think. The reactions though byour phones are both blowing up. That's

(01:25:09):
like Thomas and I are kind ofkneeling kneeling over with with this name.
I'm sorry, but I just it'sfirst first Falcons quarterback taken outside in the
first six rounds since Thomas Mittrop tookMatt Ryan in two thousand and eight with
his first draft pick as the FalconsGM so a water shed, watershed moment
for Terry Fatta uh and Raheem Morrisand Arthur Blank in the Atlanta the hometown
Atlanta Falcons here for us at sumerthe Bears are back on the clock.

(01:25:32):
They're at nine. Okay, Okay, So so let's I mean, are
we still talking Michael for a minute, Penis, Let's talk. Let's talk
Michael Penick. Let's let's hang there. I mean, he looks like he's
got three D glasses on right now. He's a styling guy, for sure,
but I want to see what thoseglasses are because, uh yeah,
they just look a little different.But the point is this guy obviously has

(01:25:57):
everything they're looking for there, andand I believe that they're thinking Kirk Cousins
can school him for two years andwe have a guy that we can grow
up. I think they're also thinkinghe's saying that. I think they're also
thinking that they've built a roster thatdoesn't have that many holes. Thomas.
I mean, they need a passrusher. They don't seem to have gotten
one here. They need you know, they could use maybe another pass catcher.

(01:26:20):
But for the most part, thisisn't a terrible roster Thomas. Right,
this is a roster that you knowunderachieved last year obviously with Arthur Smith.
I think know everybody would tell youthat. But they're not a team
that has glaring weaknesses. So takeyour quarterback right, So then when you
know the time comes, you're ready. You're ready to move on to the
future. With him, Lefty,like we say, stands in there.

(01:26:42):
He's tough, he's resilient, he'scompetitive. You know, he can add
lib in the pocket. He's notas athletic as the other guys that we're
talking about, the first you know, the top three. I think it's
movements in the pocket are subtle,and they do that. He does a
good job of avoiding sas like hedoesn't take a ton of sacks, and
he's got kind of a he's gota better than average arm. He's thrown

(01:27:04):
to some guys that can play,and adunze Is is a heck of a
football player. He can, hecan, he can talk, toss it
in and drop it in here again, he's got command and again, I
we were talking about this the lastleft hander. Tell me about him?
Who is the last? Well?Yeah, but before that, you're like

(01:27:26):
Michael Vick. Yes, in Atlanta, there's a there's some history there by
the way. I want to getto the next pick, because the Bears
have picked Roma Dunes at nine,which is so too straight Washington players.
But then we have our first trade. The Vikings have moved up to ten
with the New York Jets. Wedon't know what the terms are of that
trade yet, but Roma Dunsa hasgone to the Bear. So the Bears

(01:27:49):
have Caleb Williams and now Roma Dunzaas their take on the first part of
the draft. Here. That's prettythat's pretty solid for Chicago, Thomas.
But we have our first trade andit is the minute sort of Vikings trading
into the top ten with the NewYork Football Jets. Okay, that's just
one pick. So they moved himeleven to ten, presumably to make sure

(01:28:09):
that a team like Denver or LasVegas couldn't leave for them. This has
to be for a quarterback, correct, Thomas. This has to be for
J. J. McCarty. Itdoes. Are we moving there before?
Well, let's talk. Well,I want to talk about the trade,
but I'm gonna make sure that itisn't talk about Roma Dunesa for a second.
Then Yeah, I mean, Imean, look, another guy,
a strong guy who is not themost explos He's not as explosive as the

(01:28:32):
other two guys, right, he'snot as but he comes down and makes
big time balls. He in mymind, he's always been a top ten,
ten to fifteen. Yeah, Iwasn't sure how how high I'm I
feel like that's a really good spotfor him versus top five, Right,
I didn't What I didn't want tosee is him pop in front of the
league neighbors who there's a difference therein my mind again, and I think

(01:28:56):
it's important to watch this. I'mexcited for him to have another guy around,
you know, to continue to sothat offense. Thomas, Now you
think about making you know, yourbest teams in Atlanta had pass catchers right,
a ton of them. You thinkabout this Bear team, Keenan Allen,
Roma, Dune's, a Dj Moore, Cole Kamet. That's a pretty
solid place for Caleb Williams to start. It's I think for Caleb to start

(01:29:21):
the organization feels that right when you'rewhen you're the team builders there, there's
nothing better than wrapping up your bookstonight right and heading home put it,
laying your head down on that bedand saying, my god, we took
care of what we needed to do. Now we rock and roll the next
the next part of this draft.However, how many picks do they have?

(01:29:44):
They only have two more picks therest of the draft, So it's
it was they. I bet youif the Vikings were not their division rival,
they would have traded with them.But now, yeah, they only
have two more picks left. Again, they got some pillar players. Though.
It's your point, and I dothink you're right about a Dune's.
I think a lot of people saythat he's a complete player, but I
think that that masks the fact thathe is not of the high end caliber

(01:30:09):
of Harrison or neighbors. I thinkDunes is a very good pick here,
but you're you're not getting one ofthe two best. You're getting like Mike
Evans to AJ Green and Julio Jones, which is a very good player,
but not of that that tippy topcaliber there. So Roma Dunes is the
pick the Vikings at ten. Nowwith trading with the Jets, it's got

(01:30:30):
to be Now, now do theythrow us a curve ball and take bon
Nix or oh, whoa, that'sa great thought like do because because we
thought J. J. McCarthy wasclearly quarterback four, but that it just
takes one to screw up the order, right, and that the Falcons certainly
did that with with here. McCarthyobviously, you know, can sit behind

(01:30:55):
Sam Darnold for a year, socould bon Nicks. Bonnicks an older player,
of course, and you know,closer to twenty five. McCarthy a
younger player, a winner in collegeobviously, but wasn't dependent upon nearly as
much as any of these other guys. So yeah, I look like if
McCarthy go either Nix or McCarthy gohere, it's gonna be a great place,
right because you have Darristow playing lefttackle, you have Jefferson playing wide

(01:31:17):
receiver, Hawkinson playing tight end,if Aaron Jones at running back like this,
this is a this is a goodoffensive go to if you're a young
player. And I think good onQuacy for holding his water all the way
until now, because you know,he kept he's keeping his picks. I
was just going to say that,good on him and the org for holding

(01:31:38):
their water, because it can beeasy, you can get anxious. And
who would have thought that it wasgoing to play out this way? And
so, I mean, who wouldhave thought the Falcons were going to take
Michael Pennix? And I mean Ithink that organization probably I would love to
have seen how their organization was whenMichael was taken by Atlanta, just because

(01:32:00):
it made maybe JJ that much moreof a reality. Yeah, for sure.
And we've gotten through nine picks nowpresumably ten with the quarterback going to
the Vikings here without a defensive player. Yeah, which we kind of are
we thinking? Well at the topis nineteen offensive players in the Yeah,

(01:32:20):
the betting market had it at twentyone though, so the betting markets believe
there's only gonna be a ten oreleven first round defensive players. We've only
had two offensive linemen in a draftwhere we've expected have ten. So that's
another place where this could get squirrely. You know, we could see a
run of lineman here. We couldalso see Bonnicks too, which which could

(01:32:43):
be a thing it does. Yeah, the vikings of about four minutes left,
Well, bo Nicks. Let's talka little bit about bo Nix for
a minute. I mean Bnicks.We know his famous father, right,
if you did follow football back inthe day, did you ever watch his
dad? Okay, I'm just sayingwhen you talk about a family that's been

(01:33:03):
around and that are quarterback driven families, and you're talking about a guy who's
ostensibly a little bit older, righttwo years think he's twenty four. Yep,
you know socause he went to Auburnfirst, and he answered out that's
right. But he goes in andhe's he goes out there as a mature

(01:33:23):
guy right out to Oregon. He'sa strong guy. I don't know if
you have his data up there asfar as his height, weight and speed.
I was trying to pull it upand for some reason I was having
a little bit of a technique difficulty, but the reality of the guy like
Bo Nicks. He's big in hisown way, strong, good, strong
legs. He's going to run hard. He is competitive, he's going to

(01:33:44):
do his part and get in theextra yards. No, that's just the
physicality side of him. Highly competitive, smart guy who's making plays. He
does keep it within the system,right. He's not like out of the
off the charts ad lib guy.He's a He's a guy that's going to
keep it there. But he canmake the throws. He's got good accuracy.
He's got a total package about himif they do go in that direction,

(01:34:06):
and he stuck with it, right. He struggled a lot of Auburn,
but he went to a place likeOregon and matured, and there was
obviously a lot of support there withguys like Franklin and so on. But
he was quite good as far asyou know. There was a lot of
screen game there, but there wasalso him making plays downfield and he was
certainly a solid performer there. TheVikings have taken JJ McCarthy quarterback Michigan though,

(01:34:31):
so it's all for not for Nicksuntil at least picked twelve with the
Broncos. Possibly the point is thatKnicks now even after talking about him,
there was a pocket there that wouldbe really attracting some of the other quarterback
teams. Yep. Okay, Soyou're in a situation now where you've sayen
five quarterbacks, three three wide receivers, two offensive linemen with the first ten

(01:34:51):
picks, so offense first in theNFL. With this, with this draft,
the Jets are now having dropped apick down or on the clock.
Let's talk about McCarthy though. Yes, McCarthy a very I would say raw
is the wrong word, but avery quarterback who hasn't had to be asked

(01:35:13):
to do as much uh in theNFL or sorry, in the college level
at Michigan Diamond Edwards Blake Korum dida lot of the heavy lifting there.
They were able to lean on theirdefense, uh quite a bit there.
Yes, So let's I'm caught upin all this whole idea of JJ McCarthy
and where where do you think whenyou look at him data wise? And

(01:35:36):
I don't know if you have thedata up in front of you right now,
but I but I am curious youryour your your stance on that,
because he obviously is a winner,right you want a winner? They you
know, we back to holding theirwater right they have. They have a
group there. They have a strongpersonnel group, by the way, that
that are supporting a guy like CisiAdolpha Mensa whose background is not that Ryan

(01:36:00):
Ryan Grigson and company. Steve Sabo, a guy who's come in there this
year, robers Ins get on thecap. They have a lot of really
good football people there that can contribute. Well, you know, they did
their due diligence, so to speak, and dug into this guy. He's
not a totally finished product. Hedoes have elements that he needs to grow
and learn with, but in theirmind, let's grow with him. His

(01:36:24):
third down efficiency was really great lastyear. His you know, his deep
ball stuff was really good last year. They were very efficient point three three
you know, point three or betterEPA last year, which is one of
the more efficient marks in all ofcollege football. The one question is is
again, he wasn't asked to doa ton and and and there's there's signal

(01:36:44):
in that. But the Vikings won'tprobably ask him to do a ton this
year either. Right, He'll sitbehind Sam Donald and Nickmullins possibly and they'll
they'll let him sort of work hisway in to the lineup when he's ready.
Let's talk about that. You saythat categorically, but is Sam Donald?
Is he really the guy that needsto go in there? And can
he win you the games? Nowyou talk about holding water, how long

(01:37:05):
do you hold the water with asituation like yeah, the lowest drafted quarterback
who started right away as mac Jonesand since the new CBA at pick fifteen.
For the most part, players whohave been picked outside the top ten
don't start right away, so they'dbe breaking them hold a little bit there
with him. Well, all I'msaying there you get anxious, right,
and again, if there's any hotseat at all, I hate talking about

(01:37:28):
it, but it is the realityif there's any agitation, and let's go,
we've got to win. Well.At summer sports dot Com he wrote
an article about sitting quarterbacks, andthat's exactly right. Like the Jags wanted
to sit Portals, but Chad Hennywasn't good enough and so they had to
play him. You know, mostof these teams want to sit the young
quarterback, but it's rarely achievable.Right, The Niners were good enough to
sit Lance, the Chiefs were goodenough to sit Mahomes, but for the

(01:37:53):
most part, it's hard to accomplishthat. Let's look at the trade here.
By the way, Yes, Kingsgave up pick one twenty nine in
the fourth round and pick one fiftyfifty seven in the fifth round of this
year, as well as pick eleven, so they not a ton right.
We were thinking about them having tomove up to three, giving up a

(01:38:14):
twenty three eleven as well as afuture one. Now they only have to
give them four and a five.They still have their twenty pick twenty three
in that same first round tonight,Thomas. So they are in a draft
where they can build aro on McCarthy, whether they get another wide receiver to
go with Addison and Jefferson, orwhether they get an offensive linement, whether
they get an edge player or acorner that their defense sorely needs. And

(01:38:38):
I'm sorry you said, what waswhat was the compensation on a fourth and
a fifth? A fourth and afifth? Yeah, so not just to
move up one spot, I thinif everyone knows just we did a lot
of studies on this when we didthe Julio Jones that we don't need to
talk about Julio, but the tradingaway of the fourth round picks. Of
course, you can hit on someof them, but the percentages are low
that those people picked in the fourthround are starters, right, It's it's

(01:39:00):
it's I think it's less than tenpercent of might even be eight percent,
So keep it in perspective. That'sI think it's a good I think it's
a good it's a good thought.Our guys from Detroit, say Tage Seth,
sambrook House, Ben Brown, andSean Sayed are running the trade calculation
as we speak. By the way, just to plug a few things as
we sort of move along here again, we're sponsored by Underdog Underdog promo code

(01:39:24):
Suomer get one hundred percent match onup to one hundred dollars when you use
the promo code sumer for my money, the best fantasy football site out there
for best ball and pick them.Our guys, Taje Seth, Sean Sayed,
Ben Brown, Sam Brookhouse will belive from Detroit after this show for
a post first round live stream aswell, So make sure that you stick

(01:39:47):
on this channel for all of yourpost draft needs as as you come down
from this great first round of thetwenty twenty four NFL Draft. We actually
do have the Jets pick, andI think some people are gonna be disappointed
in New York, but I thinkI really like this pick Thomas and it's
Penn State offensive lineman Oli Fashanu forthe Jets. That's who it is.

(01:40:10):
You keep jumping on me and Idon't hear it. I think you're I
thought you're just like. I likeyour reaction though. That's who it is.
Yes, Okay, that's a goodpick, right, because they're looking
at offensive line being one of theirmain reason, their main weaknesses. They
brought in Tyron Smith, they broughtin Morgan Moses, but those guys are
older and the longer in the tooth. You need to have a long term

(01:40:32):
solution. Because the thing about andwe don't like to talk about this because
you're friends with Joe and you knowwe we we know people in the Jets
and we and it's not humane totalk this way, but everybody talks about
the Jets as if well if theyif they don't make the playoffs, as
jere base fire, and I thinkthat's such a poor, pisspoor way to
look at the draft, right.It's like, because what happens if they

(01:40:55):
do make the playoffs and then theythey come up maybe a little short,
or they win the super Bowl,and your roster's barren right after that because
there are a lot of the playersare old Mike Williams, like I said,
and you do still have to pickin pillar players at premium positions no
matter what your hot seat status is. And I know you know you said

(01:41:16):
before you've been at various stages ofbeing on the hot seat or not,
and it can influence your decision making. I think this is a great pick
by Joe Douglas. Love the pickby Joe Douglas. Remember I've said this
time and again, Joe Douglas isone of the better evaluators out there,
hands down. He's got supporting staffagain who are very talented. They just
need to make the right decisions right, that's really important. And they also

(01:41:40):
have the executives like I mean,himI Ela, guys like that who are
backing Joe, who are really goodfootball men, men at the president's spot,
and an owner who's willing to supportvery big thing. I don't buy
that it's just a you know,all or nothing for that group. Yes,
there's an older element to the tothe roster, Eric that they need
to capitalize on and they need toadd the offensive lineman element because, like

(01:42:04):
you said, there's some age there. I like Fishana a lot. He's
a big dude. He comes froma great program with a really good football
coach. He's going to go intothat organization and be that building block that
they need to build around. Asa young guy, he's going to learn
from some really good football players,albeit a little bit older, and I

(01:42:25):
think that's important for him. Theyknew what they were doing coming in here.
Yeah, and I think a lotof people wanted brock Bowers and they
and brock Bowers made sense in thesense of that offense needs a tight end.
They went after Tyler Conklin of Minnesota. They went after the Cincinnati former
tight end. That's escaping me,but they've gone after players at that position

(01:42:47):
and that have not worked out.And this has been, in my opinion,
a very smart, forward thinking pick. Now a place is near and
dear to your heart. Thomas Denverand Colorado in general, right, George
Peyton, Sean Payton picking at twelve. There is one more first round caliber

(01:43:09):
quarterback here at I is Bonix.We touched talked about Bonex for a little
bit. This could be the pickfor Denver, This could be the pick.
I've always thought there was no waythat Denver could have moved up and
made another monumental move at the quarterbackposition after Russell Wilson. I thought,
hang tight, see who ends upthere and make a decision. I think

(01:43:30):
they are happy that there's still aquarterback or two still left on there.
And when you talk about bon Nix, it seems like a very smart pick
for them. Well, and Ithink for them, does this influence your
decision making at all? You werein a division with the Panthers, Saints
and Bucks who at given times duringyour tenure there were all good, right
and you know the Raiders are rightbehind them. The Raiders ostensibly need a

(01:43:54):
quarterback. With Aidan O'Connell and GardnerMinshew, they are only two players there
right now. Does that influence it? Because if they let bo Nick slide,
Let's say they assume, okay,like Drew Lockey's gonna drop their round
and they Denver doesn't have a secondroundpick anyway, do they do they chance
it here or do they say,no, we got to take bo Nicks
because if we don't, Las Vegasis my two. I mean personally,

(01:44:16):
I don't think they can chance it. Yeah, I mean, by the
way, repeat the name who's goingto be starting at quarterback? If they
don't get someone in the draft,it's like Zach Wilson probably, well,
yeah, who wasn't before with AJared Right, And when you're talking about
those two guys, this to meis a no brainer in my mind.
I say that respectfully to the ord. It feels that way like they got

(01:44:41):
to come away with someone at thatspot. Next, by the way,
is a six two two sixteen quarterback. Bigger kid by the way, Drew
Brees not all that tall, youknow, and you know was a guy
who struggled at first a lot likeNicks. Came in San Diego, sandygoch
or replace him with Philip Rivers andthen he ended up being a very Hall

(01:45:04):
of Fame caliber player. For SeanPayton New Orleans, and I think this
is this could be the pick here. I think Sean Payton, he knows
his quarterbacks. Sean is one ofthe best coaches out there. You know
that whether people like his style ornot or whatever personality people want to he's
really talented and he knows how towork with quarterbacks. He knows. I

(01:45:25):
think he appreciates mature quarterbacks. Again, Bose a twenty four year old guy,
a couple of years older than someof these other guys. And I
think it's it's one of those situationsthat I think can be very beneficial.
I mean, look, George Peytonagain, they've done their due diligence on
this guy. They've worked it upand down for this next wave of quarterbacks,

(01:45:45):
and it feels like it should bethis this pick. You were showing
me something or no, yeah,I wanted to give you a heads up
on who the pick is, whothe pick is in. Oh yeah,
So we have aptly predicted this pickfor Denver. Fantastic six quarterbacks the first
twelve picks. That's a record.I am so happy for George that he

(01:46:09):
gets a shot to come in here. George Peyton, we're talking about the
GM, yep, that he hadso much scrutiny over him with the with
the Russell Wilson again, think aboutthis as a GM who's gone through what
he has gone through. That youhave a quarterback comes in maturity. You're
not just thinking about a young guywho's kind of flippantly moving around. You're
not thinking about an old guy.You're not thinking about another free agent situation.

(01:46:31):
Although I get you know, theydidn't spend a lot on Zach Wilson,
right, No, they flipped sixand seven home picks this year.
But I just think it's a Ithink it's a really sound pick for them.
Yeah, yep. And and they'rea team that they're They're like New
England where they are a long waysaway. I think right roster wise,
they got rid of Jerry Judy,They've they've gotten rid of Von Miller,

(01:46:53):
Randy Gregory, you know, alot of their Bradley Chubb, Justin Simmons
over the past years, two orthree years, and they really need to
start building and starting with Nicks,I think is a solid way for them
to go. The Vegas Raiders aroundthe clock. We're twelve picks in Thomas,
we're twenty to go. Still nodefensive players, none, none,

(01:47:15):
and there are some good ones outthere, right, I think you could
go to Latsu here Jared Verse,Byron Murphy's another Possibilityeople thought Byron Murphy was
going to be a top ten pick. The Raiders could probably not go wrong
here. They have a lot ofneeds and yet they could go offensive line.
I mean, offensive line is anotherposition of need for them and a

(01:47:39):
plentiful position. In this draft,we were discussing quarterbacks, and we're discussing
quarterbacks to defensive head coaches. Yes, we've had that, and we step
back for a second and see,Okay, let's just put our calculators on
here for a minute. And sofar, how many defensive coaches have taken
quarterbacks in this draft? So far? Well? Yeah, so Rahie Morris

(01:48:04):
draw, Mao dan Quinn yes,and Matti Braflus. Okay, So I
find it interesting. Do you wantto talk a little bit about your data
that you draft? It's about onein three, so like every so,
when a new head coach is adefensive mind, now that doesn't apply to
dan Quinn and and so forth,but with their first pick takes a quarterback,

(01:48:25):
it generally speaking doesn't work because ofa few things. And I've been
sort of thinking about this while wewere sort of a musing about this,
But I think it's partially because you'rebetter at building a defense, and so
in some ways you you draft aquarterback. But if you're a defensive minded
head coach and your offensive coordinator doesreally well, well, guess what he

(01:48:46):
comes to head coach somewhere, right, And so that young guy comes in
and even when he has success,right, you have the Kyle Shanahan issue,
right, or you have the dirtCutter issue or something like that,
where and actually Tampa Bay fired LoveySmith to promote their cutter because they were
worried about that happening, which isone example. And so you have that
part, and then you also havethe part where you almost always draft these

(01:49:11):
quarterbacks high and you don't actually usethe high draft picks on your pillar positions,
right, Like that was always thequestion about like what defensive player the
Falcons were going to take with,whether it's Dallas Turner or light too.
I do was do they fit intoRahie Morris's schema? Is all about Raheem
Morris's scheme. We don't realize thatZach Robinson's the head the offensive coordinator there,

(01:49:32):
and he's going to want a quarterbackand he's and but if Zach Robinson
does a really good job with MichaelPennix, He's going to be the head
coach of some team. I justfind it fascinating because this comes back to
what we talked about before. Right, the need, you know, excess
of need. Where you go doyou push? We've all pushed every general
manager out there. For all ofour listeners, everyone will raise their hand

(01:49:55):
very very quickly and say, whenI made my most egregious mistakes, they
were on usually excessive need pushing,just trying to get to that spot to
get the pass rusher, to getthe quarterback. Let's go back to this
Verseiti defensive coordinators by trade, whoare head coaches. When Dan came in,
when Mike Smith came in, theyknew what beat their butts and it

(01:50:18):
was a bona fide quarterback that dida B and Z and X, Y
and Z. So when we spenttime on Matt Ryan with Mike Smith,
and even when we talked a lotabout how we are going to build our
team with Dan Quinn, we werereally focused on making sure that we knew
what our offense was. And Ijust think a lot of head coaches like
that say I am so sick andtired of dealing with this type of quarterback

(01:50:42):
that if we could ever get them, I think we could drive with you.
Yeah, very much. So Ithink that that's that's a good that's
a good omen and I think thequestion becomes now for the for the Falcons,
right and also for the Denver Broncos, now that they've gone and taken
quarterbacks soo many people thought were goingto go in round two? How do
you build that defense? Right?How if you're the Falcons, where do

(01:51:04):
you get pass rush? If you'reif you're the Broncos, where do you
get you know, where do yougo and get pass rush? They do
have Baron Browning, who's a goodpass rusher, but you know it's gonna
not be the best roster for ayoung quarterback and either on the Broncos,
but you know Nick's you know,with Sean Payton can overcome. Then it

(01:51:25):
wasn't the best roster in New Orleanswhen Sean Payton and Drew Brees showed up
there. The Vegas Raiders are onthe clock and we are quite a quite
a we're moving fast. We're wayahead. You know, the league can't
stand when people do this far ahead. Well, that's why I've been holding
back. You have been holding We'vebeen a couple of minutes ahead. I

(01:51:47):
think you would look good in oneof those big Denver Bronco hats. They're
like triple the size. There yougo. Look at this night. Look
at him. He's just a goodlooking family. There. They're all lined
up ready to go. They're allin Alabama, probably Pinson, Alabama.
Where's he from again, I can'tremember some Yeah, I know he's an
Alabama guy. Pens and now bonNicks. Yeah, well look this is

(01:52:14):
exciting for them. His wife,he's married. He's an older guy.
I mean, yeah, yeah,yep. Okay. Where is he from.
He's from Arkandelphia, Arkansas is wherehe was born, Okay, okay,
and then he's pinsing Alabama. That'swhere he went to high school.
Ye okay. Our good buddy LesSnead is from Alabama too, so the

(01:52:38):
GM from the from the Rams andI always talk to him about these small
town places. I had a buddycome up to me the other day and
talk about Talladega, which is awhole other story, but he was there
this weekend. We were talking aboutbow Knicks because he's an Alabama guy,
Auburn guy. Excuse me. Atone time. Yeah, he was,
like I said, he struggled alittle bit at album him at the end,

(01:53:00):
but was very good at Oregon andwhat we'll see. Do you think
he starts day one. Do youthink that Zach Wilson or Jared Cinhem will
keep him on the bench. Doyou think that they ripped the band off?
I think they start. I thinkthey I would say I'd love to
see him start him again, twentyfour years old. Yeah, and he's
going. Yeah, and he's agood runner. He can, he's a
good runner, confident, he's gothe's got that swagger about him. And

(01:53:25):
I will tell you he's a toughdude. Yeah, seventy seventy seven percent
completion. Also a very good runner. So just a lot to like about
bo Nicks. By the way,the Raiders pick is in that's oh it
is. We want to you alreadyknow who it is. Do you want
to talk about you want to likeproject a little bit? So Vegas,
Vegas needs offensive line help. Vegasneeds quarterback out but they're not going to

(01:53:46):
I mean, Spencer Ratler is maybethe next best quarterback on the board.
Don't do it, and we're notgoing to see him until round two.
Oh, I never know the waythings go. Yeah, we talked,
Yeah, they need defense. Theywent past Rusher last year with Tyree Wilson,
right, Uh, they went Michaelmayor tight end last year they have
you know, Jacoby Myers and andDeVante Adams there. What do you think

(01:54:10):
they do? I think they haveto go line I I would tend to
agree. Now they're they're close toO line here, Okay, close as
in proximity. They take tight endRock Bowers is that who they take?
Okay? I like it. Well, Michael Mayer like Patriot. Well they're

(01:54:33):
not Patriot paradigm. Look at thatgroup. Goodness, So they're not Patriot
paradigm anymore. I'm not Patriot paradigmanymore. But this this fits the Patriot
kind of two tight end. Youknow Algie Crumpler, Gonzali, you know
Algie Crumpler, Marcellis Bennett Gronk,obviously Aaron Hernandez. You guys back in
the day were Benjamin Watson and DanielGraham. Love it. I'm glad you're

(01:54:58):
telling me this because I wasn't goingthere. I thought he might fall a
little bit more. I thought Cincinnatiwas gonna make it. If Duke Tobin
was a trade up guy, whichhe's not right, that that would make
a lot of sense. Uh.There was a thought that the Rams were
going to move up and go afterbrock Bowers. That was a lot of
smoke, but he goes naturally tothe Raiders at thirteen. We've only had

(01:55:18):
one trade so far. So farin this draft. Okay, So I've
said this time and again what abona fide, legitimate tight end does for
an organization, high credibility, highhigh percentage shot shot. Right, we
did it with We did it withTony Gonzalez, and I've talked about that
many times, right, And forMatt Ryan, it was one of the

(01:55:39):
most important things we did for him, along with having Michael Turner early on
a run game, get the rightmoves, you know, make sure you're
hitting the high percent shot and thenstart working the deep, deep plays.
I think by having a guy likeBrock brock Bowers at that organization to be
able to talk to be able tohit him and stride and by the way,
isn't it amazing? So Raiders,it's not, it's not. It's

(01:56:01):
it's not the same right now,but it's the Raiders. And we were
we were listening to a broadcast today. Everyone thought that if you're a Wine
of ficionado, by the way,that is there are there any other NAPA
raised players in the NFL, andthere were like five or six of them
that came from NAPA over the years. NAPA you think is high wine,

(01:56:24):
it's not good sports. This guyis a once in my mind, a
once in a decade type of oftight end. He's very, very talented.
You I think have a little bitof hesitation because you don't think you
don't think he's that big. Youmight not think he's that what pulls you
back on him a little bit.No, So the player is worth the

(01:56:45):
players, the players, I mean, as good as it gets. It's
the value at the tight end spot. Right We've we've seen the history of
you know, first contract tight endstaken in the first round of just never
really. Now, I like thismove because Michael Mayer is a big,
physical Notre Dame tight end can bethe why for your team right where he
can be that slot player in betweenMyers and Adams and not have to do

(01:57:09):
all the blocking. He can bethe Travis Kelce to the Anthony Pasano.
So historically, taking titands high hasfailed because that tight end is asked to
do everything and it's incredibly hard todo everything early on, incredibly hard.
But look like you just said,here the Raiders, Tom Telasco's there.
We look back on Tom uh whereverhe's been. Let's let's think about the

(01:57:30):
tight ends that he has had atIndianapolis before he goes to be the GM
around a guy. Remember those guysthat come through Bill Polian's world, they're
all about athletes, They're all aboutlegitimate athletes. Well, and you thought
about it, so let's let's playlet's talk football, Thomas so like,
so that that that former Indianapolis offensewhere you had you know, you had

(01:57:53):
you had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison, you had Ben Utek is the why,
and then you had Dallas Clark playingthe slot. Like, wasn't that
look like that offense? Here wehave Michael Mayer and then you have you
have Brock Bauers, right, andyou know they had Sokely there for a
while. But once they drafted DallasClark first round out of Iowa, he
was playing the slot and every oncein a while they reduced down to,
you know, two tight ends,but for the most part he was playing

(01:58:14):
that slot position. And you knowthat that was kind of how they and
they were in twelve personnel the wholegame and the difference in their formations was
whether Dallas Stark was in line orin the slot. And you know that
was that was the old Colts withwith Manning. You know, the Chargers
didn't quite have it. Obviously hadGates forever, and Gates is an amazing
Hall of Fame caliber player, butsince Gates left, they both really they

(01:58:34):
really struggled. In Los Angeles.They brought in Jerild Everett, they brought
in Jared Cook. None of thosereally ended up being the what they really
needed there. These are these arethe types of things that we believe in
as we're analyzing at SUMER as well. Right when we're talking about being a
part one day of you know,providing background information for owners and you know

(01:58:56):
whoever it may be right when you'retalking about the player and who who,
what type of player is going towhat organization and the history of that GM
and the history of that head coach, they're more apt to do a B
and C versus X, Y andZ. Very important where we think data
can be turned back the clock insome time and they think they think about
the glory days of when my offensewas humming in Indianapolis, this is what

(01:59:21):
it looked like and this is theyou know, I think Dallas Clark is
actually a pretty good comp for brockBowers. Right at the end of the
day. Dallas Ark a little stubbier, right, but fast as hell,
you know, really good in thepassing game, and you know, never
was out out ran safeties. Right, That's who brock Bowers is. And
Dallas Clark, by the way,was a first round pick and that was

(01:59:41):
in a different era, but backthen, you know that that was the
you know, ended up being avery good pick for that team, very
good pick. And again, Ithink we're here with an organization. A
head coach is going to come inand obviously it's going to be really important
with what he has operational I thinkoffensively right in my mind, so look
very important. I know we're onthe Saints. I could talk about brock

(02:00:04):
Bauers all night, though. Imean, look, like the thing that's
so funny because you're saying, like, what what do you think is wrong
with brock Powers? That's like thedifferent That's why I think the analytics is
important because I don't have a problemwith brock Powers, like in fact,
it's it's just the history, likeeven tight ends that were can'tus prospects have

(02:00:26):
missed, or what's worse is tightends that have been cantus prospects have played
their four years on the rookie deal, the team gives up on them,
and then they go play well forthe second team, which is almost even
worse if you're you're you're drafting somebodyelse's great player at the position. We
talk about values of tight ends,as you've mentioned many times in other other
other discussions and other broadcasts, andwe talk about high percentagehots everything we've talked

(02:00:53):
about, and we start talking aboutit. Back in the day historically again,
we used to think, I thinkyou can get some legitimate tight ends
in the second and third round andyou wouldn't move up, or you wouldn't
ever think about taking someone in thetop ten, fifteen or even you know.
But in today's world a little sidebar, I do truly believe in today's

(02:01:16):
world, with how fast things aremoving and how important it is for organizations
to hit the ground running, peopleare taking the best player that they can
take at that spot. So backin the day, we wouldn't draft an
interior lineman there. Back in theday, of course, wouldn't draft a
running back, we wouldn't draft necessarilya receiver there the tight end, No,

(02:01:36):
and things are changing now. Yeah, it's hard because you want to
You're trying to balance the difference betweenyou know, winning obviously and then also
putting a trophy on the board.Right when that guy comes up and becomes
a Hall of Famer like Julio Joneswill be and Matt Ryan will possibly be,
Like, that's a huge feather inyour cap. And you know,

(02:01:58):
brock Bowers can be an amazing footplayer here, and the question becomes like
when and when you know, Ithink the Raiders are in a position where
it brock Bowers takes a year todevelop, It's okay because this team's going
to take a year to develop,and so that I think is another good
pick. Whereas with respect to theJets, it may not have been quite
as straightforward, right because the Jetskind of need guys who will contribute right

(02:02:19):
away at tight end and and Bowersmay or may not have been that player
just by history. Where do youthink the Saints goe position wise? Thomas,
Oh my gosh, I was waitingfor you to lead into that because
I was sitting here thinking that we'vebeen talking NonStop, and we're parched,

(02:02:40):
and I can't wait for the watercarriers to bring in some water for you.
I feel bad for you over there. I've been taking some SIPs.
I'm hoping coach Stopsky is getting histeam out there to bring you some water.
So I just texted, I justtexted, Matt. Matt's. Matt's
working so hard, so we'll gethim in there. Get someone. The
pick for the Saints Thomas and thiswas a favorite. This was in the
betting markets minus three seventy five ofthe offensive line and so the biggest favorite.

(02:03:04):
Talise Fuaga. Okay, I meanI like it. They went with
Trevor Penning two years ago out ofNorthern Iowa. That didn't work. They
go with the Oregon State Beaver.Here, Talise Flagday. They are going
with them, yes, or you'rejust you're projecting. No, that's that's
what I'm seeing. Okay, Iwant to talk about him. I'm sorry,

(02:03:24):
I'm oh, you're just you're allover I mean we're all over.
No, I'm all over the placebecause I'm still thinking about your water,
and I am Talise. You wantto lead in because yeah, they're getting
a value. Well, expect thedraft position, by the way, which
I know it was fourteen point three, so that our guys that over at
uh not over the cap at grindingand mox absolutely nailed this one here.
Athleticism score eighty three out of onehundred, which is quite good. Uh.

(02:03:45):
And then he's also you know done, uh, you know, great
work in in uh in you know, pass protection and things like that.
He's a I think you know,as far as Sumer scout is concerned,
his best traits are agility, balanceand pass that versus speed. So this
is a situation where you look atsome of these, you know, some
of these you know, divisional opponentsin the NFC South, and you know

(02:04:08):
he's gonna be able to He's gonnabe able to go up against him pretty
well here, especially with Derek Carr'squarterback. Look, big dude, you're
talking about six almost sixty six,right, you're talking twenty four three,
twenty four yeap. This guy's tough. This guy's a road greater. When
he has to be, he willgore you. Eric. You like that
you're out there goring our engineers everyonce in a while when you turn the

(02:04:31):
corner out here in our near ourconference table. He is one of those
guys. He can move well.He shows his athleticism. Right. I
love this pick for them, andthey need it, right, they need
this pick to have a guy likethis that has a competitiveness. He's from
Tacoma, Washington, West Coast.He's a local kid. Yes, yeah,

(02:04:51):
yeah, I love this. Imean, look, the Saints forever
have been in a position where they'vekind of pushed the chips in, right,
and they've they they with Drew Breesat the helm. They wanted to
win the Super Bowl every single year. And and you know, this offseason
was kind of the first time theypulled back a little bit and they they

(02:05:12):
didn't go and sign every free agent, they didn't restructure every contract. I
think, you know, with DerekCarr nestling in their quarterback for at least
the next couple of years, heneeds to be protected. And uh and
yeah, so I I by theway, I love the Oregon State running
back. They're showing, they're showingthem. Uh and he's actually just gonna
he's about to transfer. Damian Martineznumber six is a nice football player.

(02:05:38):
But we talk about but they're showing, they're showing some highlights of WAG on
the TV against US which switch.By the way, lots uh is so
we have fourteen def offensive players offthe board we have you have to have
a defensive player. A Lotso isone of the favorites to be the first
defensive player off the board. Wehave not seen him go yet, but

(02:05:59):
yeah, I know and Oregon Stateyou know now that their head coaches is
in Michigan State now, but hewas. I mean, they built that
program from kind of a nothing toa contender. I mean we we talked
about bout Nicks a couple a fewminutes ago. Oregon State beat them,
yes, right, two years ago, and they're they're a real football team,
liked and I know that they're gettingscrewed by the Pac twelve now because

(02:06:19):
you know them in Washington State arenot They don't have a conference and so
it might not be that way downthe stretch yar anymore. But but I
do think that uh, this isthis is a great pick for them,
and I think the players coming outof Oregon State over the next few years
are gonna be quite good. Ido believe that it's interesting watching him with

(02:06:41):
his family, right, he wasin all his uh Polynesian gear and do
you know what color was prevalent there? Yellow? And I'm thinking, yeah,
he's not a beaver a beaver,he's a beaver, right, But
I was like, it's no.It was just interesting to see that because
obviously they're such a proud UH heritagegroup there and some unbelievable talent. Again

(02:07:03):
for Mickey Loomis, my buddy,you know, at the Saints. I
really like what they're doing there.I really I think this is an important
year for them, right and well, they disappointed last year, of course
I did. Yeah, I understandthe easiest schedule in the NFL, and
they were supposed to win that divisionand they had the same record as the

(02:07:24):
Bucks. So the Bucks just beatthem out a tiebreaker. They kicked the
crap out of the Bucks in Weekseventeen, but they lost to them previously
right when when Derek Carr was injuredand they played him anyway, you know,
this that was a division I thinkthe Saints wanted to win and they
couldn't. And now they're trying torebuild a little bit, but that division's
wide open. Now you have Atlanta, who as Kirk Cousins, They're they're

(02:07:45):
the favorite, But you know,I think New Orleans can still come up
and win this division. I thinkthey can. And again, I give
my opportunity. And I know theAtlanta people don't like to hear me talk
about it, but I think theSaints are a very well run organization.
They have really good football people,and you know as well as you know,
Look, you're sitting there talking aboutJeff Ireland, who hasn't been a
GM for quite a while. Ofcourse, he was in Miami, one

(02:08:07):
of the better evaluators out there,so he and Mickey Loomis worked very well
together as strong you know, presidentialGM in Mickey in a very very good
assistant GM in Jeff Ireland, andKai Harley, who has you know,
helped them negotiate the cap after goingall in. Kai is I think a
rising star in the executive world capguy. But also anytime I've interacted with

(02:08:31):
him, incredibly sharp, incredibly empathetic. Really I've actually learned a lot from
him, and I've only talked tohim probably about a half a dozen times.
But I yeah, they're a goodorganization. The other thing that they
have is that Gail spends money.Yes, you know, they spend money
and that's required you the things thatthey want to do. Okay, the
cultrup at fifteen Ballad Chris Ballard,you know, winning season last year,

(02:08:58):
first year under Staint psych and firstunder Anthony Richardson. You know he got
hurt right away. They went withGarna Minshew. We almost got them into
the playoffs. Aaron pass and fourthdown kind of you know, kept them
for winning that division. I thankBallads kind of steadied himself here a little
bit. And they're they're going defense. You think they're going defense or you

(02:09:18):
know they're going defense. Well,I think they're going defense. Okay,
I this I haven't gotten this secondaryleague confirmed yet though. Okay, but
but yeah, first defensive player allthe way to pick fifteen pounds. It's
kind of crazy. It's kind ofcrazy. Yeah. All that talk about
them potentially taking a tight end that'sout the door. Of course. I

(02:09:41):
want yeah, I want to.I want to stroke your ego a little
bit here. Because when we didthe Summer Sports Show on Serios XM.
By the way, we are previewingRound the Day three on Saturday, ME
and Thomas an hour before round threewe were doing we were talking about edge
players, and I was talking aboutdab Turner and how he fit with the

(02:10:01):
Falcons, and Jared versus name cameup and and you pointed out one player
who a lot of people have doubtsabout because of medicals, and you were
was like you, We said,Eric, can you take take a look
at at this player. He's he'sI think the best one in this class.
And the NFL seems to agree withyou because the Colts have taken light
to Latsu of UCLA, who yousaid was the best defensive player in the

(02:10:26):
draft. I love that. Andto your point, special, you know,
big physical, physical turns the cornerwith these like you do out here
in the in the in the dealover thirty percent pressure eight like big,
big time player. From a productionstandpoint, I'm gonna stop joking around about
it, but everyone just needs toknow that you take reps out in the
conference. But here's the deal.Lots OFO. Yes. I mean,

(02:10:48):
when you think about the way thathe gets off the mark, right,
we're talking about this the ability again, we always say that can Ben turn
the corner the way he does?He get He's an explosive guy. He's
got the arms span. I don'tknow if you have it right in front
of you. But he's a big, highly competitive. Now there are thoughts

(02:11:09):
out there, as you know,just like there always is. Why did
he semi retire? Right? Imean, why did he walk away?
Or why did he step away?What was the deal? Will that ever
be the situation? Again? Theseare the kind of things that gms and
head coaches dig into. No endfour six four in the forties, thirty
thirty three inch arms, you know, six foot four and three quarters type

(02:11:31):
of guy, sixty five athleticism score. The thing I liked about him,
and this goes back to my daysat PFF. Chip Kelly bought into PFF,
you know, about a half adecade ago, you know, I
interacted with him a ton. AtUCLA. They they recruited really well along
the defensive line, Thomas and likewhen I think about that, like big

(02:11:52):
physical players along the defense of anoffensive line is where UCLA stroke. They
really didn't have a great quarterback andDoran Thompson Robinson, you know, the
offense never really got off the ground, which I know is chips, you
know, sort of fourte They hadZach Charmonade to run the ball and they're
physical there, but they are whenwhen you draft the UCLA player, you
draft the physical player. And Iknow Chip's gone now, but this is
that this is one of his players. You know, again you're talking basically

(02:12:16):
six' five. And again,like I used to describe on the receivers,
if you see a receiver that's sixtythree or six four and he runs
routes like he's six or six'one. That's the same thing with pass
rushes. When you see these catsthat are long and big guys, and
yet they turn the corner like thesix to two. But this guy is
almost six five, just shy.Yeah, it's highly impressive. I mean

(02:12:41):
you get a chance to watch him. Covers a lot of ground, highly
competitive, top notch kid, theguy you want to be around, the
guy you want to build around,so you can play in both can play
in two different types of schemes too, right, Like he can play in
the in the hand, in thegrass and also kind of you know,
stand up. I think that there'sthere's a lot of versatility there as well.
He can drop. He didn't dropinto coverag to ton just twenty one

(02:13:01):
times last year, but certainly theathlete that can do that. If you
presume that that's something that they wanthim to do at least a little bit,
but a very interesting pick. Solats who goes out the board,
first defensive player taken. He wasan underdog there. Dallas Turner was the
favorite. Him making an interception.Maybe you're watching him make an interception and

(02:13:22):
moving down the field like you talkabout athlete. And by the way,
Chris ballad kudos to him. Chrisknows what he wants. He's a very
talented general manager. He'll hold hiswater for sure, but he knows what
he wants and he knows the typeof player he wants. Right, They've
never been the flashiest type of team. He'll get the players who are legit

(02:13:43):
players who back up their abilities.Yeah, let's let's reset a little bit.
So we're at we're at pick sixteam much about the halfway point of
the draft. There's been only onedefensive player, only one trade so far,
and the one trade I have thisdata is from our own taste.
Seth with the Vikings got picked ten. They received back pick two oh three,
so they did get a pick swap, which, by the way,

(02:14:05):
Quacy a very analytical GM. Theone thing to do here when you when
you are of that Ill, whenyou do trade up is the swat picks
right. So he did get alittle bit of a return and picked two
oh three. He gave up pickeleven, pick one twenty nine and picked
one fifty seven. So a prettypretty fair, pretty fair trade there,
PFF, you know the PFF warsystem which I helped develop. He gave

(02:14:28):
up about one sixth of a winto move up to do that, But
obviously for a quarterback that's more thanworth it. I think when you developed
that, that was how many yearsago when you were when you got four
or five years ago, five yearsago when you were a part of that
was that was that like a groundbreakingmode for you all when you guys were
working on it, we were thefirst ones to come up with winsbu replacement.

(02:14:50):
So I was always ill, youknow, I was always a big
Moneyball fan. I read the book, I went to the movie, you
know, when the first came out, and like baseball always had this met
and now we have our version ofit at SUMER, but at PFF was
the first time that we developed it. And so having a metric like that,
basically like what every player's worth,allows you to draw the draftkurs A
little bit better because a little bitof a history lesson for people. When

(02:15:11):
Jimmy Johnson, it's called the JimmyJohnson chart. I don't think people know
this, and this is part ofsomething that we were a project we're working
on. But the Jimmy Johnson chartdidn't get made until like halfway through Jimmy
Johnson's second year. So when theydid the Herschel Walker trade in nineteen eighty
nine, in the nineteen ninety draft, they only took six players because they

(02:15:31):
didn't have the Jimmy Johnson chart.Everybody thought he was a trade. He
thought he was Trader Thomas, buthe wasn't because he didn't have the chart.
And then in nineteen ninety one,a petroleum engineer named Mike McCoy built
it for him. But he builtthe Jimmy Johnson chart based upon what it
cost to sign the pick everywhere,which back in the day, remember all
those guys used to hold out.Remember we did this at the Hawks.

(02:15:52):
Bo Jackson held out. He didn'tplay for Tampa Bay. Right, who
is the other one named Bernie Costarrefused to play for the first three teams
that we're going to draft him,And so there was a non trivial part
about actually signing these players, andthe players at the very top of the
market were commanding like Eric Barry allthe way the year right before the new

(02:16:13):
CBA was the highest paid safety inthe NFL before he stepped on the NFL
field, right. So that's whythe Jimmy Johnson curve is so steep.
But for the most part, like, there's a lot of busts in the
first round, and that's why weused something like war those curves are a
little bit flatter. We have what'scalled our draft dashboard, proprietary draft dashboard.
We've spent a lot of time onit in this company, and we're

(02:16:35):
very proud of it. It's evolving, right, Can you just jump over
quickly to our trade area talk aboutit. Just basically, we decided not
just to go with Jimmy Johnson,of course, we decided to add our
own proprietary draft model, excuse me, trade model and trade calculator. It's
an impressive trade calculator that we're veryproud of. Again, I want to

(02:16:58):
touch on that a little bit,Yeah, because you know, I always
look back and like, obviously Iam admire your career greatly and I think
that the big the big part islike when you traded up for Julio Jones,
he had different utility for you thanhe did for the Browns, right,
And so there the trade calculators assumeall the picks are worth the same
to every team, and that's ofcourse different. Like Julio Jones going and

(02:17:18):
playing for the Falcons underneath Roddy White, next to Tony Gonzalez, with Matt
Ryan, it's just gonna perform betterthan when he would have gone to the
Cleveland Browns. He probably wouldn't beenfine. And I'm not trying to talk
crap about the Cleveland Browns at thetime, but that that's just plain right.
He was going to go and begood on the Falcons because the Falcons
were an environment where he could succeed. So the idea that you should have

(02:17:41):
been governed by the same trade chartas the Cleveland Browns in that trade is
probably not true. And so weassumer sports will instead of having like a
normal chart all the time, wewill like say, okay, this player
on this team is worth this much, and so there are going to be
you know, different signals to theleague, to the team, to to
that and and and so we wantto be able to basically have a league

(02:18:05):
value, player value and and rostervalue for for for trades, and so
it's league value, market value,team value, and and so like what
is he worth to your team,what is he worth to the league at
large? And and you know,and what is he worth historically? And
if those things are a conflict,then you can make a trade that works
out for all parties. And everyoneneeds to know this. If you all

(02:18:26):
watched the Patriot documentary where Ernie Adamswas up on the board, he was
Bill Belichick's number one guy, andhe was doing a T square basically on
the board with positives and the numbers. Here, that doesn't happen in the
NFL anymore. I mean, mostteams have their element, or there's some
semblance of a draft dashboard. Isay this humbly but also confidently and aggressively.

(02:18:52):
But no one could live up towhat we're doing here at SUMER as
far as our idea, our ideaswith draft dashboard and all of our great
engineers and great data people here,I think we're doing special stuff here with
regard to how to approach trades.Right because you talk to any general manager
out there, and everyone needs toknow this. It is not easy to

(02:19:13):
go through the trade mechanism while you'reon the while you're on the while you're
on the No, it's incredibly hard. And that's why you know it took
us a little bit here. TaySeth sent us over the chart. By
the way, the Seahawks pick isin. They picked Byron Murphy tackle defensive
tackle Texas. Okay, so twodefensive players. The reason I wanted to

(02:19:37):
jump the gun here is because wejust talked about trades, and the Minnesota
Vikings have made another trade. Theyhave traded up from twenty three to seventeen
here with the Jacksonville Jaguars. Wow, Trent Balky and Quacy dappamensa partners in
a deal here. Okay, solet's talk about Biron Murphy for a second.
We just talked about trades, soI wanted to be topical there.

(02:19:58):
I didn't want to hop over theI didn't want to hop over the the
Seahawks. I like this Murphy pickman, like you put him next to
Leonard Williams, and the Leonard's gettinga little bit older. That defensive line
has not been the same sense youknow, you talk about Michael Bennett,
Cliff Averril, you know, KevinWilliams, uh, you know Red Bryant,

(02:20:20):
like they had when they did theLegion of Boom. Everybody thinks about
the Cover three, which you weall love defensive backs, and they were
amazing. But they ran deep.They Bruce Irvan, they ran you know,
Michael Bennett, they ran you know, uh, Cliff Abril, and
and that was a that was areally uh, you know, a good

(02:20:41):
move, I think, to tryto restore that defensive line, which has
been lacking for them for years.We know that there's not a strong group
of interior dy linemen in this draft, right. We know he of course
is very talented, right, theability to move around, the ability to
make plays, a miliity to shootgaps. Right, His versatility at least

(02:21:01):
in my mind, obviously stands outfor them. Right. So you know,
for a team like that, likeyou just said, to have him
come in there and pair the wayhe does bring the versatility, bring the
explosiveness to his game, I thinkis obviously going to be very beneficial for
I think we're seeing a run nowon. Well, let's let's give it
a little bit of time. Tobreathe here. Yeah, let's do that,

(02:21:24):
so Seattle in an interesting spot here. By the way, we're now
past the halfway point of the draft. We are at pick seventeen with the
Minnesota Vikings, who have traded withthe with the with the Jacksonville Jaguars.
By the way, no trades ofplayers yet. We have Ayuk and Higgins

(02:21:46):
possible possibilities, but but no tradeswith with players. Let's just talk about
baiern Murphy a little bit more,right when you when you start looking at
the numbers of these guys, wedid it. Not in the first round,
of course, with great Jarrett.Yes, but those guys that can
rub run sub five also were atOrange Jersey in college. Also, Yeah,
Clemson, good, good call.You're pretty good with your your encyclopedic

(02:22:09):
recall. But I like, I'mjust I'm thinking about what this guy can
do for them, and I'm sureagain where he is and what he does
on the field, his drives,play nose, play one one technique is
going to be good. Texas kid, right, I'm a big believer in
in Texas raised football players, andobviously he's from De Soto, Texas.

(02:22:33):
I was gonna say Obviously those guysare producing that that state produces, right,
they continue to produce it. It'sjust well and and your guys in
Sumer scout the best traits for ByronMurphy. Lateral range, instincts, agility,
bounds. I think about this headcoach now with the Seattle of course,
Mike McDonald. What did Mike McDonaldhave in in uh in Baltimore,

(02:22:56):
right, he had Travis Jones andNose Tackley and Justin A. Bk who
they just gave a big contract tothat three technique, that that five technique
that I can get in and outof things, could be a destructive player.
Right now, they have two disruptiveplayers, and that Leonard Williams,
who I think admittingly is a littlebit over the hill. Not over the
hill, but he's getting older.And then uh, and then they have

(02:23:18):
the young the young guy here inMurphy. And then you know they have
obviously Devin Witherspoon they took last yearat the fifth pick. But I mean
you watch him play down the line, right, He's got the agility,
He's a three down player, fourto three starting nose tackle type of guy.
But his versatility to clear trash wehate saying we don't say that.
We're not talking about anyone being trash, clear clear clutter. Basically on the

(02:23:39):
way down the line to make plays. He can make it right there.
He does have the stoutness to getdown in there and do what he needs
to do. But he can alsosplit the gap. Go a good stat
from our friends at stap Bomb averagestep to tackle was a half a yard
behind the line of scrimmage, whichis best among defensive linemen in this class.
So a very good a very goodplayer there. This isy. Yeah,

(02:24:01):
we've hit by the way, we'vehit ten K viewers across all platforms.
Pretty excited about that. We aregoing to bring some of our Detroit
folks in here in the second halfof the draft to give to give me
and Thomas a break here. Okay, let's reset a little bit now that
we're at sixteen. The vikings areup at seventeen here, and what are

(02:24:24):
your what's your thoughts in the firstround so far? Thomas, Well,
I mean the overriding theme is youknow, offense, which we assumed,
well, you said the line wastwenty one twenty one offensive players. I
mean, that's a no break.They're three now three defensive players. Now
sorry, two defensive players. Wehave two ye and what will be interested?
You don't you don't have inside informationon what this trade up is the

(02:24:46):
Vikings. I believe I've gotten afew confirmations. I'm waiting for one more
on who their pick is. Whodo you think it is? I don't
know. I'm just I'm fixated onmy buddy John Snyder working down the line
in the draft room high five andbecause he's such a good dude, and
I'm so happy that when things gowell for him, and this is a
by the way, as we continueto go, I know we're going over

(02:25:07):
to the Vikings. But remember whenyou change as a GM and you bring
in a new head coach and youmove on or it's time to move on
from Pete Carroll, who's historic.There's a lot of pressure there. John's
now the one that's now in charge. Along the way, he was still
very much instrumental, But you geta guy like Pete Carroll, he's the

(02:25:30):
final say guy. Now John isthe final say guy. And now he's
the guy that truly has a handon the wheel and the eyes upon the
road. Who sang that song bythe way, the doors come on.
Dallas Turner is the pick for theViking. Good for them. Wow.
So the Vikings this offseason, theylet deal Hunter walk. He went to
Houston on a two year, fortynine million dollar deal. They got Jonathan

(02:25:52):
Grenard back from Houston. They gotJonathan, They got Andrew van Kinkel from
the Dolphins. But you can't getenough pass rush right. Their whole issue
last year was outside of Danelle Hunter, they were not able to get a
pass rush. Dallas Turner gives thema lot of versatility there in the three
to four defense with Brian Flores,a defense that overachieved last year, by

(02:26:13):
the way, Thomas right over chieved. Can't get enough cal bell to your
point, And I only reason I'mbring up cal bell is because you throw
analogies out there, right. Yeah, we need to keep hammering it right,
hammer the bell for more people toget upfield. And that's what they
do. And kudos to Quacy andthe staff. I love what they're doing

(02:26:33):
right as far as jumping up doingthings, making the moves. We haven't
gotten the compensation yet. We havenot gotten the compensation, and I'm waiting
on our guys here. Let's goahead. Yeah, so Dallas Turner,
by the way, Turner was thefavorite to be the first defensive player taken
and ended up being like to LotsuTurner, you know, best traits via

(02:26:58):
super scout, pass, rush,move, astro speed, later ability,
pursuit like just an absolute and wingspan. Yeah, plus the wingspan differential plus
eight yep, man thirty four andthree eighths arm and I'm loving it.
This guy again for Lauderdale, guySaint Thomas, a great programs, goes

(02:27:22):
and plays at a great program witha great coach. I think. Interestingly
enough, you know, all ofAtlanta was hoping that this guy was coming
to Atlanta. Yep, right,but he's he went that many picks later,
Yep, he went right. Ninepicks later. The Vikings gave up,
by the way, twenty three,which is just the move up pick.

(02:27:43):
They gave up a fifth this year, so they've already given up four,
a four and a two fives thisyear. They give up next year's
three and next year's four to moveup. That's a hall. That's a
hall. Yeah, I'm liking it. I mean, the thing is,
you're in year three of the rebuild, right, you're looking you're looking up
at Detroit. You're looking up atGreen Bay and you probably you're the same
record as Chicago. You're looking upat Chicago. So they have to be

(02:28:07):
bold. What do they have leftto do? We we should try to
pull up with the because I wouldlove to talk a little bit. Let's
let's talk Minnesota and what they haveleft in this draft, because I can.
I can do that. And whileyou're talking, we'll talk a little
bit about Minnesota. Again. Whenyou're talking about the Vikings, you're talking
about Quasi Adolpha mensa. Right,and just back to the storyline there,
right, here's a guy who isvery, very smart, and very smart

(02:28:33):
to have a lot of really goodfootball people around him, right, because
as we all know Quaycy's background thoughhe was with San Francisco and he was
with Cleveland, he had basketball background, right, So very smart guy,
Stanford guy, right, and whathe does like Princeton. I thought he
spent some time at Stanford, didn'tHe was San Francisco, Okay, so

(02:28:56):
he was over there just he wasjust scouting and I think he might have
gone to say but he went toplay basketball. He played basketball, Principe.
I thought he thought. I thoughthe did his Masters at Stanford,
but maybe didn't. Nevertheless, whatI'm saying is when you have a data
person that's the GM, I thinkit's massively important to make sure that you
have the right people around you footballwise. Right, This goes back to

(02:29:18):
Sashi Brown. Sashi had a lotof good people around him. Sashi was
a guy who was a GM forthe the Browns years and years ago,
strong heavy data analytics approach. Right, things didn't work out there, unfortunate
for him, but he is nowthe president over at Baltimore. My point
on all this, a lot ofpeople are watching Quasi right. They want

(02:29:39):
to see what he's doing as afootball team builder, to see if the
next wave is being more open tohaving data people in the big role or
at the AGM. He's a standardbearer for people like me, right,
like if he and that's I mean, I obviously like him as a person,
and I think he's very sharp.Everything you've said about him is true.
But I even if you root forhim anyway because of you root for

(02:30:03):
him anyway because of you know whathe represents and and he's not a he's
not one of those you know youknow him well, He's not one of
those analytics people, not that anybodyreally is. But he's not stuck up
or conceded or anything. I thinkhe's he goes about his business a certain
way and people respect him. Ithink that he you know, this is
a bold move and he's he's goingup and he's trying to get. Now,

(02:30:24):
now you look at him, andyou're looking at two wide receivers Jefferson
and Addison, two tackles, O'Neilland Darrisaw tight end, and Hawkinson quarterback,
and McCarthy, Grenard Van ginkel andand Turner. Then you have you
know, Harrison Smith, and nowyou're starting to, like I I think
that they can compete. Now,it's a tough division like so at least

(02:30:48):
he knows, like what it's goingto take to really compete in this stuff.
Like three years ago, all youdo is roll the ball out there
and Detroit was rebuilding, Chicago's rebuilding, and the Packers were starting a new
quarterback. You didn't have to bevery good to win the NFC North.
Now you have to be at oneof the better teams in the NFC to
win that division. And he knowsthat and he's trying to go out and
be proactive about it. For that. The Vikings, by the way,

(02:31:09):
had picked one eight pick one seventyseven, two oh three, two thirty
two thirty two left this year.They only have five picks that now left
for next year because they gave himthe second to next year to move up
to twenty three to get in aposition in the here. So in the
very end, again, very adepthstaff around around him. I'm talking about
all the scouts. So kudos tothem. They're aggressive on it. I

(02:31:31):
love it. I know we're goingover there, Cincinnati. It looks like
their pick is in. Yeah,they took Georgia tackle Amarus min which is
what we assumed all along that theywere going on line. Right. Yeah,
and they always they're always a yearahead, right, They're always a
year ahead on these things. Right. They got Trent Brown in here to
start at right tackle. They haveOrlando Brown to start at left tackle,

(02:31:52):
Amarius Mims. Can you know,like whit unt the last time Duke Tobin
started, somebody that had to startright away other than Joe Burrow, Right,
they he right, Trey Hendrickson askedfor a trade this week, right,
Why do they ask for trade?Well, it's because it's because Duke
Tobin drafted Devon o Cy and MilesMurphy, two guys are right there.
And so when Trey Hendrickson is likeI want more money, He's like,

(02:32:13):
I got back up here, andhe's you know, I Duke doesn't get
enough credit I think for how adepth he is at his job, as
you ban Duke. Duke Tobin isone of again director of players now,
but he's there. He's basically theirGM. He's there he in essences or
their GM. He's come from greatStock. Of course, his dad was

(02:32:33):
Bill Tobin, right got and Bill'sbrother was was a head coach, and
Duke knows football through and through andhe's one of the more sound That organization
is very fortunate to have him.He hasn't moved on to be a GM
because he wants to be there,because he appreciates the organization and how they
do things. Back to your point, I mean a Marius Mims six seven

(02:32:58):
six yep everyone six seven almost eightytwo eighty two athletics in the score,
which is obviously awesome, place freedand strength pursumer scout where the or the
two big things their toughness. Ijust think he's a he's a guy that
Cincinnati can build around. You know, Trent Brown's there, so he doesn't

(02:33:18):
have to come in. I meanit's a tough. This league is tough.
Right. If you're AFC North,you're playing, if you're a right
tackle, you're facing TJ. Watt, you're facing you know whoever the Ravens
bring in. Your last year's Clowneyhad ten sacks for them at left edge.
And then of course in Cleveland you'refacing Miles Garrett and you know Zadarius
Smith and all those hosses they havethere. So you have to be you

(02:33:39):
have to bring your lunch to playoffensive line in the AFC North, and
you know, to be able toget a year where you are sort of
red shirting is probably good. Elevenand a quarter hand eighty six and three
quarter wingspan, thirty six and oneeight arm length like, so we're talking
about all the of course, he'salmost six eight, of course, right,

(02:34:00):
he's athletic, he's competitive, he'sgot an error to him. He
comes from a program that has anerror about them. Right. He's a
Cockran and Georgia kid, meaning he'sa local guy, local enough, right,
he comes from a really, youknow, Athletic football State, we
know that. And by the way, all the Georgia people, I am
so sorry I never drafted more Georgiaplayers. I say that categorically because people

(02:34:24):
always get down on me for thatwhen I end up at social settings in
Georgia. This guy, this guycan be a difference maker for them.
He still has some growing to do, right, He's not a finished product.
He still has some growth and evolutionabout him. He's instinctive. He's
instinctive. Absolutely. I think it'sa great pick. Your guy less snee.

(02:34:46):
By the way, on the clockin the first round for the first
time is twenty sixteen. Okay,that's amazing since two thousand and what sixteen,
since Jared Goff was the first overallpick. Man. I know he
said over the years, f thempicks. He doesn't necessarily adhere to that
all the time, right, becausehe's back and he's going to toss aside

(02:35:09):
the f them picks idea. Andif everyone everyone gets that, I think
he had a T shirt on itand they you know, at the parade
about fing them picks. Yeah.Well, my colleague at at PFF,
Kevin Cole, was the one whomade the who made the mug for him.
I see, yeah, and soit was like but he was able
to joke. He was able tojoke with himself and handle it with such

(02:35:31):
a plumb. Their needs go ahead, do you want to talk about the
right, Yeah, I mean theyhave you know, they could draft a
quarterback here because Stafford's not you know, he's drafted No. Nine. They
obviously could use interior defensive line becauseAaron Donald's retired, They could use offense.
They probably they probably need some passrush. Right. Their defense was

(02:35:52):
I thought that Raheem Morris. Thereason he got the head coaching job with
at Falcons is he did more withless talent on defense last year than I've
ever seen a defensive coordinator do.Right. They had sixth round pick here,
fourth round pick there, fifth roundundrafted. They didn't have any other
than Aaron Donald. Right, Theydidn't really have any like sort of blue

(02:36:13):
chip players along the defense. Andhe may do with it scheme and you
know, physicality and all that stuff. Now Donald's gone, they probably got
to get somebody in there who canyou know, who's a bona fide player.
I think Less and his group arepretty dialed in. I mean not
pretty. They're very dialed in.They know what they they know what they
want, and you know, Iwill be interesting to see i mean less

(02:36:37):
less as one of those gms bythe way, as we're as we're talking
a little bit and you see them, Oh that's actually uh, that's that's
Duke right. But by the way, r ip to Duke's dad who passed
away last week. Yes, oneof the legendary win after mel kiper on
the nineteen ninety four draft, butalso just you know, drafted Marshall Fall
who went toe to toe with ofall going to be in Hall of Famer.

(02:37:01):
So you got the last lap there. I'm an awesome executive in the
NFL, And obviously our hearts goout to Duke as he's drafting with a
heavy heart problem. One of oneof the best out there, and he
set the tone for many of usin in the personnel world, and most
of us who followed his lead knewthat you stood tall and stood strong as

(02:37:22):
a personnel man, and you didn'tget run over by coaching staffs. You
had your place scout scout coaches,coach and we worked together and he so
yes, God bless the family,and again rest in peace for sure.
Back to Less Sneed and the groupthere, right, we've talked about this.
Less Sneed is one of the gms, and we're pulling into the the

(02:37:46):
Sneed household. Here. It lookslike what are they wearing. Let's see,
is Sneed wearing a They're wearing hoodies? Well, yeah, there's coming
demo Kevin Demos in a hoodie.Yeah, Lesson is in a hoodie.
They're not in ties, of course. My point is they don't go to
the Combine, right, they don'tgo to the Senior Bowl. They do
a lot of their work in VIDs. Right. Look where they are though,

(02:38:09):
That's why they're They're on the beachwear less lids. This is Less's
club. Yeah. Now they puta football field on the beach. Unbelievable.
Yeah, are you always a littlejealousy? I mean Atlanta is a
great city too, but La isa different animal. When Less and Kara,
his wife, who's great, whenthey when they got out there,
when they went to Saint Louis,they knew something was going to take him

(02:38:31):
out west. I guarantee it.Okay, they're not leaving there. If
lef Less ever leaves there or somethinghappens. God forbid, they're staying there.
I can't imagine you have a AndI visited him, he's right,
he's right in Malibu. That istheir Malibu club that I bet you if
I called him right now, he'slike, yeah, we did a deal
with our club. They wanted usto have the draft party. The Rams.

(02:38:52):
Rams have an interesting distinction Thomas.They won the Super Bowl in their
fifth year in Saint Louis and theywon a super Bowl in their fifth year
back in LA. Those are random, random facts about the Saint Louis slash
Los Angeles Rams. The Rams havetaken Thomas Jared Verse Edge so third fourth

(02:39:13):
defensive player off the board for forthe draft. This Pittsburgh Steelers around the
clock at twenty. We are gonnawe are going to after this pick go
to Detroit and talk to Ben Brown, our resident data scientists Minnesota resident.
We're gonna talk to him a littlebit about the Vikings picks of Dallas Turner
and JJ McCarthy. We're gonna letThomas take a little bit of break here

(02:39:33):
and then we're going to uh talkto Ben for a few minutes before Thomas
comes back. This has been afun draft so far. I mean I
to trades both of them. Bythe vikings four defensive players taken, offensive
lineman you know, now we're atyou know what, like five or six
offensive lineman taken. I do thinkhere's the question I have before we we

(02:39:58):
the the fifth your option for offensivelineman is like about fourteen to fifteen million.
Probably by the time it's all saiddown, it'll be in that eighteen
to twenty range. Quarterbacks by thetime these guys are taking probably about forty
five million. So you used tobe a case where teams used to trade
back into round ones just get thatfIF year option. But that fifth year

(02:40:18):
option is expensive. Now fifth yearoptions expensive. I can't wait to start
talking about Jared verse. But yesit is. I think we're gonna I
think we're gonna get more teams tradinginto the in the twenties now to take
offensive lineman. Ye back in.But let's talk about verse for a second.
Verse. By the way you're yousaid that verse was kind of like

(02:40:39):
that third edge for you, youknow, lie two is first, which
is in turner, so it's gonein the order that you you know,
you still got it and then anduh and but but verse a little stiff,
but still very productive before a state. Right, So yeah, versus
that guy again, he's not thelongest guy. He's not the biggest guy.

(02:41:01):
He's what sixty three seven. Imean, he's still got good,
good length. He's got you know, his arm length and his wingspan seventy
nine and a half wingspan thirty threeand a half arms legitimate, right,
he can run. He's you know, he's a four or five six guy.
Back to your point, he isknown for being a little bit rigid.
He's not the most fluid athletically.He's not bending and adjusting and stopping

(02:41:28):
and starting in the same way thatsome of these other top notch pass rushers
are, although I do believe hehas upper tier pass rush ability. The
fact that they were able to gethim here was great because there was a
while that people were talking about himin the top five, sorry, top
ten, eleven, twelve. Thisis the right spot for him, I

(02:41:48):
thought, right around nineteen twenty twentyone, well, and the Chiefs took
George Carloftis two years ago, andhe had kind of the same idea where
very productive college player, very youknow. Yeah, but but there were
questions about whether he could bend right, whether was he a Derek Thomas or
a Tamba Halle type of player?Right where like where where you know you

(02:42:09):
could be an effective player, Butmaybe you can't be the best player in
your own d line. Right ifif you are the only player that you
know needs to get pressure, canyou be that guy? But George Carloft
has had Ted Saxsis here the Chiefswere the second best defense in the NFL.
And you know, so he certainlyworked out and so you know that
that can work. Now. TheRams do a great job of developing players
too, and and we we've alwayswe've seen it because they've only drafted guys

(02:42:33):
late in the in the first roundor late late in the draft lately.
But it'll be interesting to see,you like, once they they draft and
developed verse, can they can theyget the most out of him, because
they've gotten the most out of alot of late round picks. Now,
remember you you watch here. Hecan set the edge right, He can
be a four to three d nHe is strong, he can stab you.

(02:42:54):
You know, he's you know,he might not be the prettiest pass
rusher. But take the combination ofall those things when you need him to
set the edge and do what heneeds to do, but also get up,
cover ground and make places as apass rusher. I mean you saw
him there discard the block, literallythrow throw a tackle aside and make the
play. These are really important parts. And again he's aggressive. He's the

(02:43:18):
kind of guy that you want tobe around. I get it. He's
got the knock back ability. Ilike where this guy is Dayton, Ohio,
guy of all of all things.Right, remember do you remember where
he played prior to going down toI I don't believe it was Albany State.
Albany State. We have to lookthat up, so I don't want

(02:43:39):
to. I want to be stayingcorrected. So I believe it. I
believe that's where he transferred from.Okay, so as you're looking for,
Look, these are the kind ofguys that, like you said, you
can get between twenty and twenty fiveAlbany. You're right, Albany State,
right, Suny Albany. The Steelersare the pick is in for the Steelers.

(02:44:01):
We're gonna we're gonna go to Detroitafter the after we talk about Troy
Fatan, who tackle Washington, That'swho just went Yes, Okay, that
guy. Love love how he comesoff the ball stout. Love love his
aggressiveness, the ability to move offthe ball. Has versatility, right,
He's a guy that can play outsideand can play inside. I mean there

(02:44:24):
aren't that many guards right in thisin this draft. When you have a
when you have a guy that hasversatility like this, it's important. I
like the pick for them. Itseems like a really strong Pittsburgh pick,
of course. And Pittsburgh last yeardown the stretch won the last three games.
They were seven and seven. Theywith Mason Rudolf at the helm,
they won three straight games, butthey were It wasn't Mason Rudolf. It
was the running game. It wasthe defense. And you know Najie Harris

(02:44:46):
too, straight one hundred yard gamesand the season. Uh. And that
was because the offensive line finally startedroad grading and you know, getting another
guy in there that can actually youknow, play, uh, to me,
is a really good start for them. They'll probably have to go wide
receiver a little bit later because theylost Deontay Johnson to the to the to
the Panthers, but it'll be avery I think it'll be a very a

(02:45:11):
very good start to a draft.Ford Steelers, who again much like the
Minnesota Vikings, are in a division. All four teams in the AFC North
last year at winning records. Youbetter bring your you know, and they
they brought Fields, they brought in. And remember Fields and Russ are both
guys that struggle with pressure. Bringin kind of build a wall around them.
Do what do for Justin Fields whatChicago didn't, which is have an

(02:45:33):
offensive line somewhat ready made for himwhen he gets there, as opposed to
building it while he's there, becauseyou know, Field struggles with that.
Tell me biometrics, you have itin front of you, have it opened
up. I know, like,where's his arm? Spank people. I
got to get the perspective. Hedoes have a ninety four athleticism score from
US, which is and I'll talkabout that while you're while you're looking it

(02:45:54):
up. Because when you get thoseguys that have the quick feet and their
nimble and they have the ability tostay out, they have the ability to
flip back around, turn back outsideand come back, get their hands back
up and slide mirror six four sixfour three seventeen uh and he ran a
five ozho one. So we're talkingabout an athlete. He's an athlete.

(02:46:15):
Yeah, and you probably don't havethe three cone there because it'll be interesting
to see uf. He did notdo three cone. He did have a
thirty three inch vertical jump, though, which is quite quite impressive for a
man his size. Okay, we'regonna go ahead and do our first jump
into Detroit here, So Thomas,we're gonna let you take a little bit
of a break. We're gonna jumpto Detroit and go to one of our

(02:46:37):
correspondents. There, you got it. Okay, So Matt, do we
want to get Do we want toget Ben on the line? Here?
Tell me when I can exit?Yeah, hold on, we gotta get
we gotta get Stopski to get getour correspondent Ben Brown in the line here.
Ben, how's it going? Oh, it's going well, man,
it's a it's a great time inDetroit. We got a let's say,

(02:47:00):
all of the thirteen prospects that arein attendance here going through the media room
right now. So it's a funenvironment. You can obviously see in the
background where in the media war room. Didn't know that existed. But it's
been pretty excited. I would sayto be on kind of the ground floor
of what's happening at the draft herein New Troy. So tell me your
first NFL draft two trades so far, and they happen to be not only

(02:47:26):
your hometown Minnesota Vikings, but theyhappen to be our standard bearer for the
analytics movement. Who is quasiadappo mensawho is giving up about half a win
above replacement right now for those twotrades? McCarthy worth it. I think,

(02:47:48):
what do you think of Dallas Turner? Yeah, I think that's very
much going to be the question forthe Minnesota Vikings kind of headed out of
the draft, and I think yousaid half a win from a war perspective.
I think Anthony Ryan Hard or youknow, an analytics guy could follow
on Twitter kind of tweeted out fromJoseph Jeff's like trade value across different calculations

(02:48:09):
that they gave up like an earlyfirst round pick to kind of make all
three of these moves that they've hadat the start of like the overall NFL
draft cycle that's getting picked twenty two. So they definitely gave up a lot,
as we've talked about, kind oflike you mentioned, like going up
to get j J. McCarthy.I think it's one explanation. But when
you're trading up to move to geta guy like Dallas Turner, who you

(02:48:31):
know, for all intense purposes,everything that we're hearing right now does have
at least some sort of medical issuesthat I do think probably cost the slide
a little bit. In the draftdoes sound like some teams potentially had him
off the board. Like the factthat the Vikings are willing to not only
draft him but give up draft compensationto actually do that. I think it's
a little bit of an overspend,and it very much, I guess,

(02:48:52):
signals that the Vikings are trying towin and win now. But I still
think that overall, given the someof the what they God can returned for
all these trades that they had,like Questy's very much naked moves, but
I remember the stereo and that couldbe a hindrance. I would say,
have a lunch. Yeah, thatis such a good point. I think

(02:49:15):
the Vikings are going here, though. I remember doing something on vikings dot
com during the combine with Katum Everettand she said, you know, she
was like, if they stay ateleven and take an edge, who is
that edge? Is gonna be AndI said, Dallas Turner, and you
know it's over under his nine anda half bend. And if you're looking
at it from Quasy's perspective, youget him at seventeen. That's eight and

(02:49:37):
a half units, you know,more than the market had him at.
Maybe they're just looking at it andsaying, maybe we're getting the ninth best
player in the draft. You knowthis this move, but it's a lot.
They gave up, you know,a third and a fourth round pick
next year, which is gonna beit's gonna be tough to build around.
Party. The whole thing about this. I want you to expand about this

(02:50:00):
now. Ben. It's like hetalked in his press conference, there's quarterbacks
you build around, and there's quarterbackswho can trade your picks and sort of,
you know, because there's so muchbetter you can trade picks to get
them. And then there are otherguys who you have to keep your picks
so that they can have support.They did a masterful job with McCarthy,

(02:50:22):
in my opinion, holding their water, getting to ten only having to give
up a little bit. But thennow they give up all this for Dallas
Turner. It's gonna be weird.Where do you see McCarthy, know though,
Now with Jordan Addison, Justin Jefferson, TJ. Howkinson, Aaron Jones,
Ty Chandler, and a pretty goodoffensive line along with Kevin McCarthy,

(02:50:43):
I think this is a great landingspot for quarterback five. Yeah, definitely.
I think, you know, froma fantasy perspective, it very much
seems like J. J. McCarthyis going to be successful relatively quickly in
the Minnesota Vikings offense. I amyou know, Eric, I am very
much kind of with your overall synopsisthat you know, they they in some
ways maybe saved a little bit onthe JJ McCarthy transaction, didn't have to

(02:51:05):
move maybe all the way up towhere people projected him to be. It
does seem in some ways like theywere very very much willing to give up
certain draft considerations to go up andget a guy like Drake May and probably
didn't have those same sort of expectationsto go up and get a guy like
JJ McCartney, because you know,the Giants obviously sat on the clock at
pick six, did it. Youknow, the Vikings didn't feel the need,

(02:51:26):
I would say, to go upand get J. J. McCarthy
before that sixth selection. So Ido think in some ways that speaks volumes
to your idea of what they needto and what they can do at the
quarterback position, and kind of thedifference in how they evaluated both Drake May
and JJ McCarthy. But I thinkin some ways the Dallas Turner, you
know trade. Obviously it's not goingto help JJ McCarthy directly, but I
do think the fact that they couldn'tmaybe go out and get you know,

(02:51:48):
their number two option overall at thequarterback position in this draft class in Drake
May, they thought they had toat least add some more blue chip type
prospects to solidify the defense. Doesseem like Dallas Turner would be a pretty
strong flip fit in the Brian floresOff defense. And they very much kind
of have I would say, adepth at the edge rusher position that very

(02:52:09):
much has existed. I would sayquite some time. They very much kind
of have I would say a type. But I do think if you are
going to buy into an edge inthis draft class, Dallas Turner, for
you know what, I understand,very much kind of has that high upside
athleticism that a lot of guys aregoing to gravitate for it. So although
I'm not justifying the trade, Ido think overall it makes sense that the

(02:52:30):
Vikings are kind of saying that notonly are they all in, but they're
all in right now, and they'rekind of askewing some of these future draft
considerations to potentially win here and winquickly in twenty twenty four. So you're
in Detroit. Edge player darry OrRobinson is in Detroit, but he is
not the one that has just goneoff the board, and I want to

(02:52:52):
get your I want to get youryou know, sort of reaction here.
Chop Robinson of Penn State and Pennstater of this first round has gone at
pick twenty one to the Miami Dolphins. The Miami Dolphins, you know,
struggled a little bit, you know, with with health along the defensive line,
with with Bradley Chubb Jalen Phillips gettinginjured last year. So he comes

(02:53:15):
in as a premium position player,the fourth edge off the board, but
he goes before Robinson, the Missouriedge here, So this is a little
bit of a surprise. What doyou think about this pick? Then?
Yeah, I honestly I do thinkit's a little bit of surprise. I
do think overall like this this edgeclass. One reason obviously that they got
shoved out in some ways because ofthe medicals, but they really didn't have

(02:53:37):
I would say one top end guythat it seemed like every single team kind
of bought into as the bon tofight number one at that position. When
you do have that, you dotend to see some surprises of how those
players have kind of picked in theorder in which they kind of come off
the draft board. So although Ido think it's a little bit of reach,
it does seem kind of like wesaid, like I wouldn't have labeled

(02:53:58):
like the edge position for the Dolphinsall that much of a team need.
But I think overall, kind oflike we've talked about another podcast, like
going the premium position right, especiallytowards the end of the first round,
does make a lot of sense,especially when not going quarterback, because you
do have at least a little bitmore of a cost controlled option that fifth
here for a less I would saymarkue positions of the quarterback. So I'm

(02:54:20):
a little surprised of the order inat which these edge rushers have gone off,
But I guess I'm not all thatsurprise that we have seen basically all
of them kind of slipped all theway down the track. Yeah, off,
no defensive players until pick fifteen wascertainly a surprise. But you know,
you know, if you bet,for example, over twenty one and
a half offensive players, you're feelingkind of good right now. However,

(02:54:43):
if you're betting over nine and ahalf offensive alignement in the first half at
negative prices, are you're sweating thisout a little bit, needing four out
of the next eleven picks to beoffensive lineman. Then when you think about
the next few picks, you know, Eagles here, you know, Jaguars

(02:55:03):
with the Vikings fix, Dallas,Cowboys, Green Bay. Where do you
see the next few positions coming offthe board? Yeah, definitely, I
think, you know, obviously,the Eagles in general have kind of gravitated
towards, you know, best playeravailable, especially at premium positions, so
I think they could go a numberof directions. Obviously, I think cornerback,
you know, especially because we haveseen that position slip relatively dramatically.

(02:55:26):
That makes a ton of sense fromthe Philadelphia Eagles standpoint. I do think,
you know, you know, thenext three choices after the Philadelphia Eagles,
either interior offensive line for the Jags, kind of moving back to that
twenty third overall selection. I couldalso see tackles happening for both the Dallas
Cowboys and Green Bay Packers. Soalthough we haven't seen maybe that offensive lineman
run that the betting markets were projecting, it's still very much just kind of

(02:55:50):
setting up to at least be tothat least allow that to happen here towards
the end of the first ULFI shure, yeah, for sure, for sure,
I think that, you know,this could be a really interesting one
because we have not seen Quinnon Mitchell, we have not seen Terry on Arnold,
we have not seen Cooper de Gene. Cooper de Gene was mocked to

(02:56:11):
this spot. But now you havea number of corners. You know,
you remember, Ben, the cornerposition has been one of the most random
ones as far as you know,first position taken. You know, Derek
Singley over Sauce Gardner, J C. Horn over Patrick Sutan. You might
you might get an upset here.Cooper de Gene, last time I checked,
was anywhere like close to ten toone to be the first corner taken.

(02:56:35):
And you know, he's right nowon mel Kiper's board the best player
available. We also have Brian Thomaswho's also available. He might not go
to the Eagles to have two twentyplus million dollar wide receivers, but there's
a lot of really good players soleft on the board. Yeah, definitely,
it's excited. And I think,you know, that's got to be
the expectation obviously, with the quarterbacksgoing so quickly and so early, is
that there's a lot of surplus orthere's a lot of value I would say

(02:56:58):
happening in the eighteens and early twentieshere. And I do think some of
these Sharper teams that are on theboard right now are very much gonna be
able to take advantage. But it'sbeen, you know, a great draft
for teams that don't need quarterbacks.So let's say, coming up so far
in the first yeah, for sure. So, Ben, what has been
before we let you go? Whathas been the most memorable part so far

(02:57:20):
about your first NFL draft? Igotta say, even though it's been awesome
to be with Toms and talk shop, you know, for for hours with
him, I'm a little jealous thatyou get to be there and you get
to drink this all in and wearthat awesome outfit you have on. Now
what in the most memorable experience sofar? I mean I I was sitting

(02:57:41):
up there, you know, shodshod side, and I got to ask
Drake May questions about what he expectsto be like, you know, for
the New England Patriots, kind ofhow they're going to design an offense forughout
him. So it's been a surrealexperience. Obviously, get to mingle with
a lot of different you know,NFL analysts, reporters and everybody else.
But this is I would say themost exciting type of season. I'm just
happy to be a part of itand kind of build on this whole method

(02:58:03):
that we're building in the NFC Northin the Minnesota Bike t Jeff, awesome
stuff. Well, Ben, thankyou so much for your time. Go
back to all the fun as Quinnand Mitchell is the pick for the Philadelphia
Leagals at twenty two. So theydo go corner, but they go a
different corner than many people believe.They would go first corner off the board.

(02:58:24):
Queinian Mitchell, who was the favoritethe whole time, ends up being
the pick out of Toledo. SoBen, you have a good one we're
going to have. We're gonna goahead and have Thomas come back and another
guest here. But yeah, thanksfor making your debut on the Sumer Sports
twenty twenty four Draft show. Yeah, thanks Eric. You guys are crush
to keep doing what you're doing.Thank you. Awesome. So we are

(02:58:48):
in a good spot here. Ithink we're going to go right back to
Detroit and get one of our awesomeanalysts on the board here to talk about
the last few picks before we goback to Thomas. I believe we're going
to get Sam Brookhouse here, butlet's let's just talk Quinn William Quinn Mitchell

(02:59:11):
for a second. So Mitchell athleticismscore quite a good quite a good player
for Toledo. You know our besttraits is per Sumer scout man coverage,
hips swagger, which is quite interesting. I think you know our friend Bruce
Gregkowski, formerly a PFF with us. Well, we'll really like this pick
as we get another Toledo guy.Let's go ahead and get and get Sam

(02:59:39):
Sam on the board here. Sambrook House one of our data scientists at
Sumer. Matt if we want towe want to throw him into the room
here, Sam, how's it going? Hey, Eric, how you doing
loving Detroit? I bet did youfor one, have you had any of
the Detroit style pizza? Yet?We have not had any PiZZ We were

(03:00:01):
kind of focusing on the task athand, and the big celebration is going
to be a slice of Buddies pizza, my favorite type of pizza. Despite
living in New York, it ismy favorite type of pizza too. And
I don't just say that because I'ma Detroit Lions bobo. I truly do
love that pizza. Your Saints,you know, you're you know Tulane,

(03:00:24):
You're a two lane linebacker. Weactually have somebody on the on the on
the on the live stream who hasplayed the game. But your Saints at
fourteen kind of did the expected thingto lease Fwaga, the the offensive lineman
from from Oregon State. Firstly,what's your what's your take on that pick?
Going into the pick, I waspretty sure they were going to go
tackle. In the last two tothree weeks, the Saints have had kind

(03:00:48):
of an upheaval of what they thoughttheir line was going to look like.
First came News, which is kindof still rolling out about Ryan Ramcheck struggling
with injury, struggling with recovery.There's been talks of medical retirement, and
that's an all pro there at righttackle. And then just this week James
Hurst, who typically was a depthpiece but played a lot of snaps over

(03:01:09):
the past two years, retiring.You lose two pieces that have been,
if not cornerstones, at least contributorson that line, and you kind of
got to replace it. There weremultiple guys I thought they could go with.
I think at fourteen, Flago isprobably the right pick in terms of
you know, I think his EDPwas right around there, and yeah,

(03:01:31):
overall, I think it's a goodpick. I wonder if they couldn't have
traded back and gotten someone like TroyCaltano from Washington, add a better value
and probably add some stuff, butthat's not in the m really, that's
not really something. Yeah, soit wasn't expected. Yeah, there seems
to be teams that could have possiblygotten maybe a little bit better if they

(03:01:52):
broke their mold, Like you know, the Bengals could have traded out for
Rock Bauers or something like that.But Saint straighting back, of course,
the accumulating picks as they've kind ofpulled back this offseason, Sam, I
want to can you expound on thata little bit, because it does seem
like they've been a little less allin this year, and I find it

(03:02:13):
kind of refreshing and I think it'sgoing to help them long term. Yeah.
I think they made the move torestructure Derek Carr, and they do
have some young pieces, particularly whenyou look at Chris Olave. They like
a Lante Taylor a lot, soJordan Howarden in the defensive backfield. There's
positions of need, but this isa team obviously that is older. But

(03:02:37):
those old guys have been good,and they've been good year after year,
and that's the reason why they're evenstill on contention despite some of the cap
struggles they've had. So when youlook at what they've done this year,
I think they're trying to ease intokind of a rebuild while still having Derek
Kark quarterback and maintaining a pretty goodoffensive line while they have Camara as well.

(03:03:01):
The future is still pretty vague withthe players that they have. They're
still kind of in a situation wherethey're probably going to have to continue to
restructure people, but It'll be interestingto see if they do make the transition,
particularly with their Day two and Daythree draft picks. If those players
end up being good, it mayease some of the interesting places they've been
in the last two years. Absolutely, I think that this has been a

(03:03:26):
very good offseason for them. Obviously, they disappointed last year with one of
the easiest schedules in the league,and they weren't really able to capitalize on
it. But instead of sort ofgoing all in and putting good money after
bad, I think that they've donea really good job of, you know,
pushing pushing forward here on some smartmoves. This has been a smart

(03:03:46):
move for us to have Sam onSam enjoy the rest of your time in
Detroit. We're gonna bring Thomas backon the show here. Really thrilled and
excited for you guys's live stream.Can you guys, can you for a
second year give the listeners a previewof what you guys are going to do
tonight after the first round of thedraft. Yeah, So what we're going
to do is break down all thehigh points of this first round, which

(03:04:09):
at first looked like it was gonnabe pretty chalk and then all of a
sudden pick eight, blew up.You're gonna learn more about the quarterbacks as
we've covered prior to You're gonna we'regonna talk about the surprises people who we
think are winners, and we're gonnahave a little fantasy talk to so excited
to hop on right after the draftins. Yeah, that's amazing. Obviously

(03:04:30):
we have Tay Seth and his fantasyprojections along with Ben that that powered our
draft guide. Those will be updatedonce we know who you know who is
playing for whom after this weekend,and it should be a really great product.
Sam, thank you so much.Follow Sam on Twitter, follow Sam's
podcast The Class Play. He dida great job of breaking down this class

(03:04:54):
player by player, week by week. It was phenomenal. Sam, thank
you so much for coming on.Appreciate it. Eric. All right,

(03:05:16):
so we're gonna continue here. We'regonna bring the Mittroth back. We have
a few picks to talk about here, so this should be this should be
fun to go over a few ofthese picks with Thomas Thomas as a as
a former defensive back yourself for theGwelph Griffins. You know it must have

(03:05:39):
hurt a little bit to see howfew defensive backs are going. But we
got the last few picks. Wehad Chop Robinson go to the Miami Dolphins.
We had Quinnon Mitchell the first cornercome off the board to the Philadelphia
Eagles at twenty two and and rightnow the Jags are on the clock with
their pick. Let's talk Quinna Mitchellfor a minute. Yeah, I mean

(03:06:01):
we were talking about this before,right, small school, not a small
school. I mean it's it's agroup of five yeah, not power five,
yeah, not power really good footballplayer. A lot of people saw
him at the Senior Bowl. Eric, Right, when you have some questions
about competition as a team builder,as a scout, you really want to

(03:06:22):
go to the Senior Bowl and orother all star games and combine. As
much as people say, ah,it's just it's basketball on grass whatever they're
doing there, but you want tosee him juxtaposed, right, You want
to see him side by side withsome of the best talent out there.
People walked away from from a SeniorBowl and they're like, this cat can
play. He is quick, heis fluid. He can jam his foot

(03:06:46):
in the ground and break on ballsin front of him, flip his hips
and go deep, make plays onballs. Ball skills are huge. This
kid's got very good ball skills.You watch him play. He didn't give
up much of anything this year asfar as in coverage. He was so
good. Passer rating well below fiftylast year. Just a guy who breaks

(03:07:07):
up passes, intercepts passes, justdoes a really good job at his craft.
Here. So you watch him atthe Senior Bowl. You watch him
stay in phase, and everyone knowswhat that is, right, It's basically
stay in phase, stay hip tohip, don't get run off. He's
got that kind of ability. Hehad a nice forty time, right.

(03:07:28):
I mean, he's one of thoseguys at four three three at the combine,
he was just a guy that youknew someone was going to pull off
the board earlier than may have beenprojected. Excited for him, Cited for
Philly. Here's Howie again, andHowie a few years in a row,
traded up, right, So tradedup, got his guy, you know,

(03:07:50):
kind of going against what we wouldcall the analytics. Thomas this year
he holds water. He gets thebest corner in the draft at twenty two,
well below where everybody thought he wouldgo. Thomas so a very good.
Uh, a very good choice there. Chop Robinson a little bit of
a surprise, but a very goodtester right, ran ran a sub four

(03:08:11):
or five in the in the combine. Penn State has produced some pretty good
pass rushers, namely, you knowMichael Parsons of late uh LeVar Arrington back
in the day, of course fromthe linebacker spot. But like, but
Chop. You know, when Ithink about Chop Robinson here uh going to
to the Dolphins, it's Jalen JalenUh. Jalen Phillips. You know,

(03:08:35):
had an a c L at theend of the year, so he's he
needs you know, some spelling obviouslygravity Chubb. They's traded a lot for
him, but he's had his injuries. It's been you know, they need
to get reinforcements there so they getyounger at that position. So a couple
of picks that make sense. TheJaguars pick is in Thomas. Just just
on Chop for a minute. Whenyou think about Chopp again, not a

(03:08:56):
special player, right, I meanit is a little bit undersized. We
talked about a little bit. Hedoes have some pretty darn good natural pass
rush skills about him, right,Excellent get off and such. To me,
I think I was thinking about thisearlier. I think this is the
type of player that you can winwith because he's got consistency to him,

(03:09:18):
back to being raised in a systemand threw a head coach and a lot
of coaches that I that I likeon that staff that I think do a
really good job getting their guys ready. Look, I think I think this
is a very good football temperament guy, and I think it's good for them.
Yeah, and like I said,he doesn't have to come in and
be the everything everywhere, all atonce pass rusher because of how of how

(03:09:39):
they've built that team, even thoughthat team has some injuries with it.
LSU wide receiver Brian Thomas is theJaguars pick from Trent Balkey. Wow.
Okay, so so that was atrade back, right. The trade back
up they get, they get andBrian Thomas. You know, at one
point in time, his draft propwas pick fifteen, so people are thinking

(03:10:01):
he was going to go at fifteenand he he you know, now falls
to twenty three. That's pretty goodvalue for Trent. You lose Calvin Ridley,
you know, you gave Davis comesin, but Gabe Davis is kind
of not the Gabe Davis is.As a jump ball wide receiver, you

(03:10:22):
need a guy that can get open. Brian Thomas last year eighty seven targets
the whole year, eighty seven.Not that many seventeen touchdowns at eighty seven
targets, that's insane, right,And a lot of that's Jaden, but
some of that's Brian Thomas being areally good wide receiver. What was it
did they what was his time atthe combine? By the way, Yeah,
I want didn't know. So let'stalk about him a little bit more.

(03:10:43):
When when you talk about Trent andyou talk about making sure that they
continue to supply who we think isa legitimate quarterback. Right. We love
the way that he's growing four threethree for Brian, so he's a three
to three guy. Another speed merchant. They did, Okay, maybe they
were disappointed. They were never goingto pay Calvin Ridley, as I understand,

(03:11:05):
right, I mean Calvin, Calvingoes to Tennessee and I think Calvin,
what was he twenty two twenty threemillion? What was it? Yeah
it was it was in that range. Yeah, so they weren't going to
pay him. I think not thatthey were disappointed they got out of Calvin
Ridley what they wanted. They knewthey weren't going to run. But I
think that that offense missed was missingsomething last year. You watch those games

(03:11:26):
and like, like we said,Trevor Lawrence was hurt a lot, sure,
and there there was an aspect there, but that team could not get
a basket when they needed one atthe end of game like they You know,
you need wide receivers that when youhit the back foot or open.
And I think that that was apretty pretty missing part. You saw,
you saw him hesitat in the pocketa lot, and maybe he didn't trust

(03:11:48):
Calvin, maybe he didn't trust youknow, Christian Kirk, and Christian Kirk
was hurt a lot, and youknow they that offense ended up being just
a bunch of your short passes DevinIngram, which I don't think you can
staying in offense with. I thinkthis is a good value for Trent,
Bulky and co Right. They knowtheir work. Trent is very talented.
He knows what he's doing, heknows what he wants. He also communicates

(03:12:11):
very well the head coach. Theyknow they could move back here. I
love the fact that they moved backand got something that they By the way,
I didn't say this, I saidthis with Ben Brown, who was
on air. The Jaguars picked upthree ace of a win of war by
trading back. So that's a prettygood you know. So every time you
can pick those wins up off theground. I mean, they lost their
division by a type by one win. So anytime you can kind of gain

(03:12:35):
ground that way, it's smart.Dallas is now, Jeff, let's talk
about Dallas needs for a minute.Yeah, and not only well do they
well? So let's okay, becauseyou've been in the seat before, I
think that this is where you cani mean, shed some real light on
this. Jerry Jones is bombastic.They have the Dallas Cowboy bus at the

(03:12:58):
combine. Jerry, you know,is one of the more Uh oh,
the Cowboys are not in the clock. The Detroit Lions are on the clock.
They just traded. I mean wemight have to throw to Tage Seth
or Detroit correspondent. Let's do it. Yeah, let's throw. Let's okay,
Lions trade, We're gonna We're gonnacall our guys here. Let's okay,

(03:13:28):
So the Lions are on the clock, but let's let's talk Cowboys because
the trade back. Okay, Sopeople don't I think understand what you have
to deal with as a team buildersometimes when when in various ebbs and flows
this you know, some teams canspend all the time. Some teams don't
spend rarely at all. And soin this you know, Jerry famously said

(03:13:56):
that the Cowboys were all in thisyear. But then no spending and free
agency. They're not giving Dak acontract extension, all this kind of stuff.
They need Micah Parsons under contract.They need Ceedee Lamb in a contract.
Neither one is Dak Prescott's on thelast year of his deal. This
is a pivot point for this footballteam. And they moved back, and

(03:14:16):
they moved back and moved back towhere where? Where was? Why I
would I would assume twenty nine andthe Detroit pick is in. I really
like this pick for Detroit, Thomas, is it surprising to you? No,
So Quinya and Mitchell went yep.And now the second corner's coming off

(03:14:37):
the board. Okay, well,good Terry on Arnold, like Detroit did.
Detroit didn't have good corner like theyhaven't had good corners in forever.
And so they were able to makethe conference championship last year despite not having
an and green Bay was looking tothe draft corner two. I think Green
Bay Michael Cooper Dejane here at twentyfive. That's been a rumor it could
go offensive line as well. Butyeah, so we have you think Nate

(03:15:01):
is Wiggans. You don't think hecomes off It could be Nate Wigans too,
for sure. Well, he canfly, but you know people are
wondering, is there is there somethingthat's holding him back? You know,
is there something off the field thathe has to deal with Because he can
fly, he should he has theability quite honestly to go in the top
fifteen, if not earlier. Yeah, thin, And like I think people

(03:15:26):
are people looked at how Emmanuel Forbesstruggled last year and they're they're a little
bit weary about about him and andthe and the likes. So I like
this pick a lot. We're wemight not get taged quite yet because he
was not expecting the Lions to pickthere. Well, we'll throw to him
whenever we get the opportunity, Matt. But let's let's talk about Detroit now.

(03:15:48):
So Detroit's going with Arnold. Theylost Chauncey Gardner Johnson, who got
some big place for them, butwas mostly hurt last year. Obviously,
they went Jeff Akuda in the drafta few years ago. That didn't work.
They really haven't. They really struggle. Even brought in Desmond trufont once
your old guy to go play,and he didn't have any legs left.

(03:16:09):
I think this is a really goodplace for Brad Holmes to get younger.
I'm interested to see what they gaveup for this, but we get three
the third trade now in round one, which is Detroit, and we don't
have what they gave up yet.No, but I'm not seeing that.
But again, moving up from I'msaying you said, okay again, versatile
guy. This guy, in mymind matchup ability to him. Playmaker.

(03:16:33):
You know, he's a guy thathas really good eyes. He's got ball
skills, you know, look closingand burst. He's not a speed merchant,
yeah, four four eight. Intoday's world sometimes you're seeing these guys
that are two nine to three threes, a little bit less of the speed.
But he is a football player,and he's one of a lot of
the scouts that I talked to outthere he's there. He's one of the

(03:16:54):
favorites, right Yeah, hard working, team leader, all the things you're
looking for in that position. Theycame up with him because they thought he's
a legit guy. They've done thatbefore with some of their defensive backs,
right yep. And they know whatthey want, and I think they're they're
digging in deep here. That's agood that's a good move up for them.
Yeah, let's go ahead and getour pal taste set on. I'm

(03:17:16):
gonna I'm gonna throw ahead, throwsome earbuds in here so I can talk
their cage. Your Lions moving upto twenty four taking Alabama corner Terry On
Arnold, what are your immediate thoughts. Firstly, you're gonna get to leave
the draft early now and beat thetraffic because the Lions aren't picking at twenty

(03:17:37):
nine anymore. I am big aboutbeing the traffic. I feel like even
when I went to my first Lionsgame, they're oh a sixteen season.
We even talked about beating the trafficthen when the stadium was half empty.
So that would be nice to dothat today out of the media room.
But I do really like this pickbecause when you're jumping the Packers to take
a corner. I think if thePackers were at twenty five, you know,

(03:18:00):
they would have ended up taking Terryon Arnold. So it's good that
the Lions were able to to kindof jump them and get a corner there.
And like, this is a quarterbackthat was expected to go at sixteen
as we have here from our dataat grinding the mox. You know,
he was someone who was really goodwhen targeted last year as you see from
this data from staffs Bob here.So I like this pick by the Lions

(03:18:20):
for sure, definitely fills the needawesome stuff. So tange when So we
don't have the trade numbers yet.Obviously trading up for a non quarterback is
generally speaking not always plus CV.But this has been a move and this
has been a position for them thathas really been a problem point for them.

(03:18:43):
If they hit on this pick,can you I mean, are they
are they a contender to be atop player in the in the NFC?
Yeah, I mean you do bringup a fair point where you know,
we usually see based on trade chartsor ESPN study where they use approximate value,
Like oftentimes the team trading back isgetting a little bit more value in
the trade. But like your articlementioned a couple of weeks ago, like

(03:19:05):
teams that are kind of in thatcontention tier might want to do these types
of moves and move up, muchlike Thomas moved up for Julio Jones.
I hope the Lions are kind ofin that spot where you make the NFC
Championship last year despite starting Cam Suttonand Kendall Vildor as your two outside corners.
Now you add you know someone whoyou can eventually hope can guard wide

(03:19:28):
receiver ones, which Lions really struggledwith last year, and really have those
types of ball skills where he canbreak up passes against some of these top
end receivers in the league. Andlike you brought up, like maybe this
does kind of put their defense fromin the twenties to maybe league average,
And then if you pair a leagueaverage defense with a top eight offense,
I think you can have a reallygood team there. Yeah. I think

(03:19:48):
conservatively on top eight. And that'syou know, basically assuming injuries and stuff.
You can if you stay healthy,you're probably a top five offense.
So before we let you go towhat has been your favorite part of the
draft, so far, What hasbeen what has been the nugget that you've
learned, uh through through walking aroundthe media room and what what should we

(03:20:11):
expect over the next eight or sopicks in round one? Yeah, so,
I mean favorite thing of the draftso far was really just kind of
showing up to the media room andtalking to some people who were in Kansas
City last year and them talking abouthow this is four times as big as
as it looked last year. Ithink it's really cool look for the city
of Detroit to have that, youknow, listen to your guys' show,

(03:20:35):
hanging out with Sam, Sean andBen here, seeing how like seeing Sean's
like journalistic you know powers kind ofturned on when these different players come to
the podium. Has been really coolis he's been asking them questions and yeah,
over the last eight picks, Like, I think we're going to see,
you know, a decent amount ofdefense just because of how much offense
we saw earlier. And I thinkthat, you know, when we're doing

(03:20:58):
a post draft show tonight, weshould have amount of winners of this draft
based on based on some trades andI think like their chiefs are probably gonna
go offensive tackle or maybe receiver,So that'll be really interesting to see how
it plays out as well. Yeah, we're we're the people who bet over
a number of offensive linemen. We'redoing pretty well, but now they're going
to sweat it out. As you'rit's your point. Because of the number

(03:21:20):
of defensive players that have come.This has been great. I can't wait
to uh listen to you guys' showon my drive home. Uh, you
guys have been awesome out there.I can and and and for the people
that don't know, Taze has beeninstrumental and pick in making a lot of
these graphics, a lot of thesestatistics, a lot of the projections that
went into our draft guide. Andso even though Thomas and I have been

(03:21:43):
on air most of the night,Tae has played a huge part uh in
this show. Have a great timethe rest of the first round and we'll
we'll we'll talk to you later.Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate you
having me on. Okay, wehave our guy, tays Seth from Detroit,

(03:22:05):
one of our best one of ourbest analysts. Were full of energy
and really excited about his hometown DetroitLions finally having a defensive back that they
can be proud of. I agreewith them. I'm very much of the
belief that this is that this isthe right building block for them as they
move forward. Here. Again,as as I've talked before, it seems

(03:22:31):
like they've had corners there in thepast that haven't necessarily worked out. They
moved one over as you know,to Atlanta last year. Who you know.
I think this is again, thisis good for them. This is
the type of player that they canagain defensively competitive, He's gonna He's a
guy that's mature, been around avery very sound coaching program. I always

(03:22:56):
say that about these corners, right, because you need them to be able
to play out in the versatility toplay inside, but you need them to
have the confidence if they are afour to four eight to be out there,
be on an island and be ableto run and know that he does
play faster in my mind than afour four eight. Well, and and
the speedster guys. I mean you'veseen the numbers, right, they don't
do as well at the NFL level. And that doesn't mean you should draft

(03:23:18):
slower players on purpose, but itdoes mean that you know, if you
can guard people in the sec uh, you know that that that that stands
for something right and and and fourfour eight's not He's not Otis Smith Thomas.
He's not a nice pull nice pullon that. No, he's not.
And he's got a jacket and asuit that probably would be very well

(03:23:41):
suited for Eric Eager. And I'mexcited, you know that that we're seeing
him. He looks happy. Helooks happy. The only reason I say
that is because again, he's ahe's a Southern kid going up to the
North and uh, you know theyhave no they have a don't for sure,
but he's going to be playing insome rough, rough weather up there.
But I love the kid. Yeah, I like this pick a lot.

(03:24:03):
And I think that the teams gotthe teams that got value here were
very much uh you know, Eaglesand the Lions getting Arnold and Mitchell where
they got them. Green Bay's onthe clock, green Bay Ballsy last year
went with Jordan Love sight unseen mostlyfor all of us. Started out slow,

(03:24:24):
Jordan Love started playing like a reallygood quarterback. Then they had a
little bit of a dip, andthen Jordan Love in the playoffs played about
as well as any quarterback in theleague was playing. And you think about
Brian Gudakunz. You think about allthe folks that they have there that are
you know, Jack Kerminski, theiranalytics guy. I mean, they just

(03:24:45):
have I think that they're just oneof the most the most well run organizations
in the NFL. It's really hardfor me to have anything but admiration for
Green Bay and whatever they end updoing in these drafts. I always kind
of you know, there's teams rightlike. I don't know if you've noticed
this, Thomas, but like everythingI write, Presumer, I'm trying to
look at your old moves and learnfrom them. Whenever Detroit, whenever Green

(03:25:07):
Bay does something, I'm like,Okay, why is green Bay doing this?
Because generally speaking, I think it'sprobably a sharp thing to do.
Brian Gudikins, Yes, he's sharp. He's a football guy. Think about
it now, he's coming off ofall the hammering he took four years.
Yes on Aaron Rodgers for sure,right, there's not that's not an easy

(03:25:28):
situation to be at loggerheads with yourstarting quarterback as a GM coming in there.
By the way, he looks anawful lot better now that Rogers has
started talking more. Right, helooks like the more sane person. In
fact, probably cut Bata right time. I think, I think, you
know, look, this is thisis a smart move for him. Of

(03:25:50):
course we'll be interested to see thepick is in here. But again,
he and Matt Lafleure working together,understanding each other is obviously a very important
thing. We always say that,right side by side, working together.
But remember, Brian Goodikins comes froma situation. Green Bay has always been
of the belief coaches coach scout scout, so they work together, but the

(03:26:13):
coaches don't override the scouting. Soeven though Matt's got a place there,
Brian's the guy in charge there forpersonnel. Yeah, and I think that
that works. I mean, Ithink Matt Lafleur is like one of the
best winning percentage of any head coachedINFL history because he kind of like they
stay in their lane and you knowthere. Yeah, there's been consternation there.
Brett Farr was a lot at theend, and obviously Aaron Rodgers was

(03:26:35):
a lot at the end. Butthey've they've come out and they've they've been
stronger packers here. Speaking of stronger, Thomas Jordan Morgan tackle Arizona we were
talking about him earlier. I mean, you know the idea of going to
O line here and Jordan Morgan,I'm watching him a little bit. I
got a chance to watch him today. You know, I'm sure at this

(03:26:58):
spot they knew what they were goingto be getting right, They weren't going
to move up, that there weretoo many old linemen here and to pick
an old linement with their pick twentyfive, right, Jordan pick twenty five
yep. And I think it's importantif you if you're pulling up Jordan and
you look at the data there thatwe bring up on seventy seventy seven point
five athleticism score a very you know, when you look at him from a

(03:27:20):
six foot five three eleven ran fiveoh four and forty like you're talking about
another big athletic player. And andand again, these guys do a really
good job with the old line overthe years, and they've they've done a
good job over the years because they'vebeen very mindful of the type of player.
They won't always shoot for the starson it. They'll they'll know what
they're getting there. I know thatsounds kind of like element, but like

(03:27:43):
take like Zach tom Out of WakeForest, who is like kind of a
not that many people thought he wasa blue chip player. He's their best
offensive he's our best offensive lineman rightnow, right And like David Baktiari was
a fourth round pick, Corey Linsleywas not a top pick, you know,
going back even to like the Rossof herbas and like those kind of

(03:28:03):
like the Green Mays always done agood job at this position. They've always
done a good job and and andthey've been proud of it. Right,
they get the guys, they getthe guys in there that are you know,
again back to versatility. I've seenit over the years. The players
are picking and they're not Again mypoint is they're not overshooting for someone that's
like a flashy athlete. They're gonnaget the guys that they know are going

(03:28:24):
to fit into that system. They'regonna be tried and true, they're gonna
be consistent. And this this appearsto be another one of those. Yes.
And a team that did a lotof drafting a wide receiver last year
at Dantavian wicks Uh and and youknow Jaden Reid as well as two years
ago with Romeo Dobbs and Christian Watsonlike they've built their offense with the young
cornerstone players. It's a good move. I I there's not a whole lot

(03:28:50):
I can say. Like I alwaysthink they drafted again a year ahead of
time. Last year Lucas Lucas vanNess went high, right, he was
a backup for them early on.Now he's a he's going to be I
think, a premium player for them. Same with Rishungary a few years ago.
They've drafted him when they had startersat his position already. Okay,
we're at seven offensive lineman, Thomasseven offensive lineman. This guy just by

(03:29:13):
the way again, he's left tackle. When I say versatile, I'm just
saying another guy that I think thatthey can grow with. I know I've
said that a number of different timesabout it. But he's you know,
he's he's a range guy and hecan pull, and he's you know,
he's got ability to slide off thatleft left side. I would be really

(03:29:33):
interesting to see where he truly ison on the on the string. He's
six, he's six five three elevenright, just to finish him off,
nice armspan, wingspan eighty one plus. I think, uh, you know
again, this is this is theguy for them off the left side to
grow with, which is going tobe important for them. Yeah, and
is that Thomas versatility, sodaes sodaesEldon Jenkins their center slash guard. So

(03:29:58):
they have some ways to win onoffense. Tampa Bay on the clock our
guy Jason light who who we dubbedJason Wright a number of times. Uh,
he's on the clock there with theTampa Bay Bucks at twenty six.
What do we think here? Imean, the Bucks surprisingly won that division

(03:30:20):
last year. They won it threestraight times. Prior to that string they'd
never won the division, never wona division more than once in a row.
So they're they're on an impressive streakhere post Tom Brady era. They
had Baker Mayfield and they've gave itBaker extension. Mike Evans is back,
Chris Godwin's back. They could useoffensive line. You know, Tristan Wurfs

(03:30:41):
is really good at left tackle.He's been a right tackle at times.
Donovan Smith left and you know,so they have they have holes there.
Ryan Jensen retired of course a fewyears ago. That could be a place
where they look. And then defense, you know, they lost Jack Barrett
rushing the passer. They lost DevinWhite, who you know was fading for
them anyway, and then at coreback, you know, Carlton Davis has

(03:31:01):
traded to the Detroit Lions, andso was Seuan Murphrey Bunting left a few
years. So they have holes theycould they could fill a number of them
here and Jason Light will probably finda way to do it. Jason does
a really good job. As wesaid before, you call him Jason Wright.
I love that he never answered mytext when I called him that.
I don't know, maybe maybe hetook it a certain way. I didn't

(03:31:22):
footnote you on it yet, soI'll make sure I try to do that.
I like the idea of a cornerfor him, but you know,
I still think there's some corners outthere. But to your point, O
line, we're starting to we're startingto drop down in the O line deal
though, right, and we've hadhow many go right? So the Bucks
just picked one? Okay, GrahamBarton Duke Duke Okay, good? So

(03:31:45):
okay Barton A very yeah. Likenow we're starting to see some of those
guys right, like, they're startingto fall off a little bit. They're
starting to fall off, and youknow they still I mean, these are
the kind of guys again, dude, got this. This guy's another six
five plus guy three fourteen, buthe you know, he's he's a sub
five to one guy. He's afive to zero five guy. You know,

(03:32:07):
this is the area that you're gettinggood football players that you can build
around. They can they can bethere as a starter for you for years
to come. They're not special,right, that's okay, right, yep,
But the consistency. He's a Brentwood, Tennessee guy, right, So
he's he's one of those guys thathas been raised in good in a good

(03:32:28):
situation. He's been around a goodfootball program as a young guy. And
you know, being at Duke,being around a you know, I think
being around a good quarterback, beingaround you know, a good coaching staff
there, I think is going tobe good for them. I haven't Graham's
got again, He's got the abilityand the versatility to play center and guard
as well, you know, rightguard as well as left guard. He

(03:32:52):
does have that ability, right,So I think that's that's one of the
things that's going to be beneficial forthe for the Bucks, yeah, for
sure. And and again they hadthey had needs in a number of different
places. They got Baker Mayfield lockedup. You know, Baker's always been
a guy that when interior pressure happens, has struggled, and so this is
a this is kind of a placeto help him. Now your guy Monty

(03:33:16):
for the second time Patriot Paradigm GM, with the second of eleven picks is
on the clock at twenty seven.They went Marvin Harrison Junior at the fourth
pick of the draft. Kind ofwent chalky there. I just want to
go back back to the just quicklyon Barton for a minute, because when

(03:33:37):
you think the idea of moving inside, there aren't that many guards this year.
Just given his length is maybe alittle bit lack of length, I
can see him moving inside. AndI've had conversations with Jason light about that.
He's got a pretty good eye forprojecting inside one of guys, because
that's that's a place where you haveto be a traditional scouting has to be

(03:33:58):
somewhat the way because I remember,you know, building college pro projections at
PFF. It's like, if youdon't have data on how the guys played
the guard, you're kind of you'rekind of guessing, right, And I
think sometimes a scout can see thatbetter than the data can, because you
know, sometimes left tackle, righttackle does does the guy look ambidextrious with
his beat? Does the guy looka certain way? And I think scouts

(03:34:20):
can really see that better than thedata currently. This guy, of course,
is a smart guy. You don'tgo to Doke and not have a
brain about you. Yeah, andthe ability to pull, the combination inside
there's a lot going on, rightYou're not You're not just kind of out
there slide in one way. Imean, there's a lot going on in
the NFL. So to have aguy like that with a combination of smarts

(03:34:41):
and the ability to pull and trap, I think is good for them.
So I just wanted to make surehe gets his due and and Jason does
because you know, even though they'renot flashy picks, at this point,
they're guys you walk away feeling goodabout starting your draft. I think there's
a lot of those kind of playersin the draft right now For a teams.

(03:35:03):
Cardinals kind of need everything right theyneed except you know, they could
even use another wide receiver. TreyMcBride's a very good tight end out out
of Colorado State. Of course,offensive line They've done some work there.
They got Jonah Williams from Bengals isthere to help with Paris Johnson, the
guy they took in the top tenlast year or top top pick last year.

(03:35:28):
Defense just seemed to be the placewhere they need to go. They
were they gave up a lot ofstuff last year. And for historically,
when when Steve Kahn was the GM, it was always kind of like those
tweener players. It was the HassanReddick, it was the zam and Collins.
It was those kind of players thatalways kind of were edged players but
also off ball players. And Ithink that they, you know, what

(03:35:50):
they really need is a kind ofa guy to get in and be able
to rush the passer right and beable to really give you know, Matthew
Stafford, Brock Purdy and Gino Smithsome hell in the NFC West. And
I think if they do that,then you know, they'll they'll be on
their way to winning some football games. Now. They you know, they're
they're they're head coach and their GM, in my mind, I think are

(03:36:13):
hitting it off well. And Iexpected them to write they both they both
have good minds about them and Ithink, you know, I think by
putting a pass rusher in this,I agree with you. I don't know
who that pass rusher is, though, I don't know to project on who's
still who we think can can bea so, so Darius Robinson is the
last player that's still at the atthe draft, the Missouri Edge five tech

(03:36:37):
kind of guy, A four nineguy, you know, not not a
great athlete, but also also bigger. Right, he would be honestly,
Darius Robinson would be who I whoI? Who? I would have projected
you guys with the Patriots back inyour paradigm days ago in right, the
Ty Warrens and the Jarvis screens andthose kind of players, like, that's
kind of where he sits that theCardinals you run a three to four with

(03:36:58):
Gannon, and so that could bewhat they do and have him play kind
of, you know, that interiorrole. But that that's one possibility.
Well, we were flashing back aroundhere and the pick is in with the
Cardinals, right, are you alreadygetting that that fast? I actually see
two things. I see two thingshappening. So Darius Robinson is the pick.

(03:37:22):
Oh wait a minute, were youprojecting or did you? And I
have that inside information I just sawit. It just came up. But
the other thing that happened Thomas yepis Brett Veach and the Kansas City Chiefs
have traded up to pick twenty eightwith their rival in the AFC, the
Buffalo Bills. Oh who they really? Kansas City has beaten Buffalo in three

(03:37:46):
of the last four playoffs. Wedon't normally do that. No Kansas City
has moved up to twenty eight.Could this be? Well, so let's
talk about Robinson for a second,because we'll talk about who the Chiefs take
when they take him. But Chiefsdid take a trade. That's the fourth
trade of round one. Darius Robinson. Uh yeah, I mean kind of

(03:38:07):
a kind of a surprise to bein in the in the group of thirteen
people that got to go to thedraft, for one. But I don't
know. To me, he's alittle uh again, another not not flashy
guy. He's a five technique inmy mind. He's got a little bit
of heavy, heavy leg to him. Right, we call him that like
he's a six to five guy.Right, He's a legitimate size guy.

(03:38:31):
He can take it on. Hecan he can hold the point. He
can stab you as you need tohe's not a he's not a pretty pass
rushing guy. I don't you mightbe able to pull up his sacks there.
I don't have him right in frontof me, long arms. Uh,
you know, he is a powerrush guy. That's gonna be his
ability for them, And I'm wonderingwho's gonna who's gonna be, you know,

(03:38:52):
sort of complimenting on that on that. Yeah, they need it.
They need an actual like edge,you know, kind of player to really
go there. Four nine five inthe forty yeah, four seven six in
the shorts, tuddle for a seveneight seven in the three cone drow five
in birds. So someone explosive onthe vertical side. But let me just
tall seven eight seven. Yeah,that's not good. Yeah, that is

(03:39:15):
seven eighty seven is a long,loping, heavy legged person. I mean,
what is what is the what's theyou know, yeah, what's the
what's the ceiling here? For him? Is it? Is? It?
Is? It? Is it gonnabe like Justin Tuck? Well, I

(03:39:37):
I mean when I watched Justin Tuck, I thought Justin Tuck had some more
natural pass rushes, pass russ skillsto him. This guy's strong, don't
get me wrong. That's what they'regonna They're they're hoping that they have a
big old stud in there that canhold the point and that's gonna be important
for them as a five technique.Yeah, and uh, you know again
not fast, strong as heck,big big arm arm length, you know,

(03:39:58):
guy, wingspan guy. And theseguys are never flashy guys though.
These are never guys that you're thinking, Wow, he's just gonna disrupt.
He might be a three or foursack guy. I'm sorry, did you
pull the sacks up? Yeah?I haven't. I haven't been able to.
Okay, look at his stats here. I think he's probably in that
three three and a half sacks intwenty twenty two. Okay, yeah,

(03:40:20):
I mean, like you said,he is a like he is a He
is one of your five tacks atat New England. The Chiefs, by
the way, have taken a widereceiver with pick twenty eight. The Chiefs
have Okay, so they traded withBuffalo trader Buffalo, and why they still

(03:40:43):
have Buffalo. They still we're justa little bit of Okay. So I'm
still watching Monty Austin fourth with hisattack with his dapper suit there, and
I was just trying to get myhead around. So, okay, we're
at the Chiefs. They took awhat receiver? They took xager Worthy of
Texas. Remember in our mock draftwith with with Yeah, uh, Marcus

(03:41:09):
Whitman, Marcus Whitman, we weretalking about it and that was one of
my picks, and I said,they're going there, going big for him,
speed merchant. But is it weirdthough that Buffalo didn't want because Buffalo
no digs, no Gabe Davis,they don't have any wide receiver like I
mean, they have Khalil Sakir andCurtis Samuel, they have Dalton kink do

(03:41:31):
they drafted last year? Yeah?Is that? Is that a little bit
of a surprise that that Buffalo wouldgive that pick to Kansas City? I
mean, Kansity must have given hima haul. I think they must have
given him quite a bit. Itis surprising, But no, I think
I think Buffalo is being smart aboutit. They're moving back. How many

(03:41:56):
picks are four? Yeah? Five? Five picks? Yeah? Uh No,
I'm not that surprised. The Chiefs. The chief The Chiefs cut Mark
wisveldis scantling. They're deep, They'reThey're they're deep. Guy, this year,
or she writes, got into troublewith the law, he'll probably be
suspended. They need wide receivers,right, like they they they need bodies
if nothing else, right, Andand they got they got Marquis Brown to

(03:42:20):
play there, which is good.Marquis Brown is on a one year contract,
so uh, this is obviously helpingthem for the future. Dallas is
now on the clock at pick twentynine. Now they trade. They traded
back, of course with with Detroit. Do we want to talk to Zabra
worthy Worthy anymore? I do tofor four two one right, smoked it

(03:42:41):
and and he runs good routes likehe oh yeah, yeah, he's not.
I mean I think we all,like, you know, look at
him as a speed guy because ofJohn Ross and I'll say, you know,
Corey Coleman and all the guys thatran fast forties that couldn't actually do
anything in the league. But zaberWorthy is a real player. He's a
real player. He's endorsed. Well, they're very very good, you know,

(03:43:01):
ability to we call it like gatherthemselves and and and gather their weight
going into and out of his cuts. Right, that's a big thing.
Of course, he explodes out ofit. Of course he has the ability
to take it deep. Of coursethey have not had a guy since they
moved your buddy to the Dolphins whocan rip it off. Well. I
know they have some guys, don'tget me wrong. No, but they
haven't had a guy who's an actualthreat there, who's an actual threat.

(03:43:22):
Yeah, you know he's a he'sobviously the flex and impact return ability as
well. Yeah, because now theychanged the kickoff to actually be a real
play. But he's you know,he's one sixty five Tyreek was what was
kind? Yeah, he's like two. Yeah. But look, I think
what this guy does is you weresaying it the other day in our in

(03:43:45):
our discussion, I mean, yes, they need they have one more year.
I'm trying to think of their receiverCRUI there they have Marcus Brown,
Sky Moore, Caius Tone, who'sup this coming? Yeah? And so
I look, I think this guyis in the hopper with them. You
run him out there, you gethim involved very early. You don't have
to always mix him underneath, butyou get him just ripping off the top.

(03:44:07):
Yep, No, I agree.I I like that pick. I
think Brett Veach has only traded backonce in his entire career as Chiefs GM
and it was not this year.But they needed that. They needed that
player. They issue offensive line.By the way, Chiefs, Wania Morris

(03:44:28):
is their left tackle right now.They might go back to Donovan Smith,
but Wanya Morris is there is theirright tackle right or is there is their
left tackle right now? Thomas istheir left tackle. Morris third round pick
last year. Yeah, played somegames this year, but Donovan Smith ultimately
is still a free agent. I'msure they have him on speed dial.
He's got to be on speed dial. So you're surprised. I well,

(03:44:50):
So it really just depends like theythey they haven't taken offensive line high before.
They the Chiefs have a very highstandard for offensive lineman and almost never
in this part of the draft fromtwenty eight to thirty two, where they're
always picking because they're always good,they never seem to fall in love with

(03:45:11):
the player at the position like that, right, and they haven't here even
though there are still offensive lineman onthe board that that could be possible for
other teams. So we are on, who's Dallas get Detroit? So this
is Detroit's natural Okay, but Dallasis there Dallas. We talked abou Dallas.

(03:45:31):
Let's talk more about Dallas. Soall in Mike McCarthy. Both of
us thought, you know, weboth like Mike. I've met Mike.
I'm the famous person he talked toabout analytics when the year he was fired
or whatever. And I think he'sa really bored progressive coach. I think
he's done a really good job withwho's had. I think he's really underrated.
Winning twelve games three straight years,as you know, is hard like

(03:45:54):
he's not a slouch. Everybody treatshim like a slouch. And by the
way, Chiefs led the NFL dropsthere's Marquez dropping a touchdown, but they
still won the Super Bowl. TheBut obviously with Dak's contract year coming up,
with a lot of guys and theDallas Cowboys drafted will Will McClay.

(03:46:16):
I mean, they they do phenomenalwork. Right as far as drafting,
they don't they don't miss very often. But then they get into these situations
where they got to trade a MariHooper for a fifth round pick. They
gotta you know, cut zeke witha big you know. So they they're
they're they're almost always they they're closeand yet they're almost always hurt by their
success, right because they get closeand everybody expects them one one year to

(03:46:41):
win the Super Bowl, and thenthey and then they don't, and then
it ends up being a it endsup being a disappointing thing where I think
expectations are are are always sky highfor them, and they almost never reach
them. So when he says he'sall in, and then we don't see,
as you said earlier, right,we don't see him making big moves,

(03:47:03):
and then they drop back, doyou think that is still all in?
I'm just I think when he saidhe was all in, I think
he said like this. When hesaid he was all in, he said
McCarthy, Dak, Yes, Dak'sDak's cap it is like sixty million dollars
fifty five million dollars this year.So when he said all in, he
meant, you guys are my guys. And the moment I get off of

(03:47:26):
you guys, I am going tostart cutting, I'm going to rebuild.
Right, when he said all in, he's good, he meant he meant,
you guys were on my team.I'm going in with you. Now
I'm going to add to you.And so I think people got that twisted
a little bit. So let's talkdefense for a minute here. You don't
think your idea of where we aredan Quinn leaves, Mike Zimmer comes in.

(03:47:50):
Zim comes in. Zimmer's a differentdefense, no question, then,
no question dan Quinn dan Quinn evolvedsince he was with you, dan Quinn
was much more. Dan Quinn wasa very cover three centric guy with you
guys. Also with Seattle. Hewent to Dallas. He used all the
players you know, interchangeably. JayonCurs was a safety linebacker, your old

(03:48:13):
guy, Kean o Neil safety linebacker, Michaeh. Parsons, edge linebacker,
Mazzie Smith. All those guys movedhim around. Mike Zimmer is a sit
in four to two base play andplay pattern, match coverage and rush the
passer with four and and do thedouble a gap mug on third down.
That's who he is. And solike, I kind of think that Dallas

(03:48:35):
is going to go after that EdgeranCooper guy at some point. That linebacker.
They want him to be the Anthonybar that defense, right. You
know, it's one of the guysthat you were excited about. I asked
you the other day, what areyou thinking about that? He's not a
sleeper necessarily, But he's not afirst round pick either. Well he might
not, he might be you neverknow. But I think they're also new
offensive line. They lost Tyrone Smith, left tackle stalwart for them, you

(03:49:01):
know, Frett, you know theybost you know, they've bost some players
along the offensive line as well.I think they also could use number two
receiver. They have Cooks to goalong with with Lamb, but they lost
you know, they cut a gallopthe Colorado state wide receivers number three,
so you know, they have alot of needs. Who do you think
is making this pick? Who ismaking the call in Dallas right now?

(03:49:24):
From your perspective as Jerry or no. Well, Will McClay does a lot
of good work, it's right.I mean, he's the guy that he's
behind the scenes doing a lot ofthe work, right Yeah, I mean
Will McLay is very talented. WillMcLay should be a general manager somewhere.
Will McLay not, you know,respectfully, he is a family man and
I'm sure he doesn't want to leaveanywhere until and I don't know his situation

(03:49:46):
that said people are He's not justyou know, leaving. He's got he's
very well respected there. You know, Dan Quinn speaks so highly of him,
sort of some of my other guysthere on that staff. So it's
good. I just ask you,excuse me, like, does Jerry make
the pick? Does Stephen Jones makethe pick? Or is it? Is

(03:50:07):
it Mike Mike Mike? Is Mikedoing something there? Micah former like Micah
Verry. You know, we talkedabout green Bay in a in a superlative
way. Mike likes off intive Lineman. Right, he always took those guys
and it does look like Tyler Geitontackle Oklahoma. Okay, so you and

(03:50:31):
we like Tyler Guidon. Have youhave you spent any time looking at Tyler?
I know we were talking about yousix seven eight. No, he's
a big old Yeah, he's abig old dude for sure. I you
know, I'm a little surprised,maybe I for a while there, I
thought that he was going to gomaybe a little bit earlier. But there's
been a run on these guys,right, yeah, five to one nine,

(03:50:52):
so not quite as like but thirtyfive in vertical. I mean he's
a guy that's an actual stud,right, Yes, he's a he's a
smart, good instinct guy. He'sa big guy, you know again thirty
four and an eighth arm who's gotthe art alarm span for him. Of
course, as we're talking about,has left, left and right tackle ability

(03:51:13):
given his size. You know,when you watch these guys, I'm not
a big fan of guys that aren'tlike the big you know, the mirror
guys right playing off the left sideof course, and I'm saying, he
has his limitation in my mind tostop and start to redirect. But he's
a big he's a big guy,and he's you know, he's got a
big step to him get. Hecan kick step, he can meet at

(03:51:35):
the junction point. I'm just sayingthe slide stuff. I've been worried about
it. But you know, youknow he handles counter moves in the in
the past protection, like I said, sustained second level. He can get
out on on on plays as aas a run blocker, he's a go

(03:51:56):
ahead. We had we had balanceas one of his best trades persumer scouts.
He was not quite as good onsome of the basically like depth,
like being able to get depth andpass pro for our guys at stats Bomb,
which used the tracking data and stufflike that. Like that's I mean,
that's it's it's you know, it'skind of what you said, he's
kind of going right where people thoughthe'd go twenty seven and a half was

(03:52:20):
this is an average Shraft position.So you know, Dallas is a good
developer of offensive line. They canthey can, they can definitely do.
But but yeah, there's only somuch you can work with at some level
with some of these guys. Imean, he's twenty two years old.
I mean, I just think abig, big, big kid who they
can develop there, and they do. They do do a good job there.
So Baltimore's on the clock. Baltimorehas lost a lot of people this

(03:52:46):
year, right, Ortiz Corey Kraiwick. You know, they've they've lost Anthony
Weaver, They've lost Mike McDonald,Right, They've lost you know, Jadamian
klows he was big for them.It's yet they're picking at thirty again,
right, because they're a good franchise. You know, Eric the Costa is

(03:53:09):
a phenomenal GM does does a lotof good work here. They got skunked
in the playoffs at times with theirat at you know, in the secondary
by the Chiefs in the playoffs andfor one half of play they were amazing.
In the second half of that game. They're the best defensive league by
a country mile last year for mostof the year. But you know,

(03:53:30):
they they could use some depth ofcorner, they could use some they could
use some offensive line. You know, Ronnie Stanley. They restructured Ronnie Stanley's
deal to basically take part of hissalary and make it a new incentive because
Ronnie Stanley hasn't been able to stayin the field for the last few years.
So, uh, they could golike this, This draft is a
strength for them in o line,you know, it's kind of fallen off

(03:53:50):
a little bit. But places likedefensive back. They just gave her Shot
Bateman a contract extension. Uh,and and they did really well as they
flowers last year in the first round. I don't know if wide receivers really
their jam here? What do youthink? Uh? I don't think it's
their jam. I'm not feeling onthe wide receiver side. I am feeling
it potentially on the corner side.And you know, it does sound like

(03:54:13):
they're going they just announced it.Nate Wiggins cornerback Clemson. Nice. I
think that's a really good pick forthem. Again, is that where he
is? Is that what they're showingright now? There? That's Dallas.
Yeah, that's got Yeah, kindof kind of looks Ricky Williams like he
kind of does Nate Wiggins. Anothersmoking, fast guy, right, really

(03:54:37):
smooth, very very good athlete forthat position, ball skills, lean.
He is a very lean guy.And I think that's why he lasted as
late as he did. People shiedaway because I'm Emmanuel Forbes being a similar
body type last year and Washington tookhim in the teens and he didn't was
bench last year, and like peoplekind of react to that. But but

(03:55:00):
but he's like again, he's madesome big plays there. By the way,
is that Authy Newsom still in there? Where do you? Yeah?
Sure? Is Ozzy Newsom in thedraft room for the Ravens. Who's he
talking to there? I can't tell? Is that People forget this though?
Well, that's that's Bashati there.He's yeah. Ozzie Newsom a member of
the nineteen ninety five Cleveland Browns,along with Thomas and mittrough one of the

(03:55:22):
one of the most talented buildings infootball history of coaches and executives and scouts.
Ozzy went on to do great thingsin Baltimore. Of course, you
know again when you were just stayingwith with Baltimore and you're talking about Nate
Wiggins, He's got a lot ofreally good movement skills to him. We

(03:55:43):
talked about this before. He's light, right, he's seventy three, So
one seventy three at six one three, that is a bean pole. Yeah,
you got to either put some weighton, but then you don't know
how fast they're going to be whenthey win extra Yeah, but he's a
two eight. I always said,if you he's a four to two,
you put ten pounds on him andhe becomes three to eight. Yeah,

(03:56:03):
that doesn't We're okay, yeah,okay, then you can do it.
I'm interested here. So there's twomore picks left. Let me let me
run out theory by it. Okay, Niners bills. The fifth year option
on tackles is pretty cheap. Ido think that there is a possibility that
a team wants to come up anddraft an offensive lineman. Could it be
Carolina at pick thirty three trading uphere. Could it be you know,

(03:56:26):
New England coming up and getting backin the first round and getting a guy
to surround surround Drake may with dowe see another trade because we've only seen
four so far. The mark ofthe vetting market on the day was five
and a half. We saw four. We've seen four, and two of
them were by Quacy. Yeah,so that you know, uh, one
by Brett Beach and one by theDetroit Lions. So I also think San

(03:56:52):
Francisco here. They've attrofeeded offensive linesignificantly since their first Super Bowl. Last
year they made the Super Bowl,but Trent Williams was really their only good
opfitsive lineman. You know, theycould go Jackson powers Johnson the center here.
I think that would make a lotof sense. Your old guy Alex
Mack was phenomenal for them when whenhe came over from from the Falcons to
play in Shanahan scheme. They reallyhaven't had that sense Lake and Tomlinson left.

(03:57:16):
They haven't filled that point either.And obviously, uh, they're one
of their former first rump picks fromNotre Dame. That's the guy right tackle.
Uh Glinchy left in free agency togo to Denver and they really haven't
responded there. So they they haveneeds to tackle guard and center, and
and they're in a draft that hasa lot of tackles, guards and centers

(03:57:37):
there. However, was rumors todayThomas that then, oh yeah, that
the Niners, that the Niners weregoing to draft the wide receiver because they're
thinking about trading Brandon Ayuk. Wow, I did not I have not heard
that. Your your your ears tothe ground. Yeah, I didn't know
they were thinking about trading right now. So well, I'm still fixated on

(03:57:58):
Nate Wiggins for a minute, justbefore we move on, I know San
Frans on the clock here. Well, you're a big fan. Well I
am, but I'm also you know, I am a fan of people that
can move like this. I'm excitedfor Baltimore to have someone like this,
and they must have figured out whatthey needed to figure out on the size.
Some of those guys run hard,they run fast, and then once
they settle in again, I knowI've already said that they get in,

(03:58:22):
they get a little more mature,and I think at that point they can
gain some of the weight and Ithink that's important. But nevertheless, you're
talking about San Fran and I'm gonnabe really interested. You think it's gonna
be o line. Huh, yes, but yeah, but they had they

(03:58:43):
had needs one defense too. Imean, I don't know these picks back
here at the back end of theof the draft, and remember they've done
poorly over the last like you know, five or six years and you know,
fifth year option exercising of these pickshas been pretty poor, like you
know, one in three, twoand five. As far as the rate
is concerned, these picks have oftentimesbeen really hard for the teams that have

(03:59:09):
taken them. I think a lotof that is because teams are not taking
premium positions, but I think alot of it is also just a lot
of it is also due to youknow, just the you know, just
like the drop off and talent.I wonder you were mentioning before. But
as far as trade up right,how many people trade out of that back
end of the first it hasn't.It hasn't happened, well, denver did

(03:59:31):
it. I remember doing it afew years ago when John Elway was there.
Like what precipitates an org to sayI'm getting out of the first round?
I think like usually before the newCBA in twenty twenty, it was
always teams coming back in to geta premium player with the fifth year option
like quarterbacks Lamar Jackson or quarterback likeTeddy Bridgewater in twenty fourteen. That hasn't

(03:59:54):
actually happened. A team hasn't tradedback into the round first round for since
two than two. So it's it'sbecause they made the fifty option more expensive.
Wow, okay, so we havewe have a trade. No,
well, okay, we had likea misread on the feed here. So

(04:00:18):
the feed initially said that the fortynine ers have taken Cooper Gene, but
they have actually taken Ricky Pershiel widereceiver Florida. WHOA okay, yeah,
interesting? Wow? And what wasit? How did who gave you that
feed? Uh? Just looking atthe league feed, Thomas, I was

(04:00:39):
trying to find out who we canget into on this. I mean,
let me just pull up Ricky ifyou can pull him up for some reason.
He's very good or well he was, he has very good measurables.
Well I am, I don't knowwhy. I'm pear saw pier saw how
you says he? I know thathe wanted to go ahead. I mean

(04:01:03):
twenty three, twenty four years old, he's a six to one one eighty
nine guy. Right, he runsa four to four good good good football
pick six six four in the threecone. That's very good. He's got
ability to play inside right, hecan stop and start the way we want
him to die. He's got theability to move and separate runs runs,
you know, his routes the wayyou would like to see someone like this

(04:01:24):
run it. I'm probably a littlebit surprised there were a couple others,
but I mean, I mean,who was left on the board at the
and we we have a trade backinto the Carolina has moved up one pick
thirty three to thirty two. Youhave huh, okay, do we do
they go for? Do they gofor the center here for Jackson power Johnson?

(04:01:48):
Or is it wide out? Isit? I think it might be
wide out. I'm calling this thebill. This is the bill. Pollian
move Carolina. What about Adam andI Adam I Mitchell could be at An
Mitchell. Yeah, because Ricky,I'm just back to Ricky. I'm just
a little surprised. He's not aspecial guy. Of course, not a
real deep threat. He's a goodfootball player, consistent, Only surprised,

(04:02:11):
like, okay, were there acouple other guys there that could tear it
off the top. Uh. Anyway, Ad and I he might be the
guy. Yeah you think you thinkPierce All's the pick. I think that
buffalo probably bails out of the pick. Yeah, so this will be interesting.

(04:02:33):
Caroline is there, so Pierce All, let's go, let's go with
him. Let's talk about it likeyou're looking at Ayuk. So, so
Samuel is kind of the factor backwide receiver, but he's been diminished a
little bit because of because of McCaffreybeing there. Ayuk's the better receiver.
But you know, they pay,they're paying everybody all the money, so

(04:02:54):
they can't really So it'll be interestingto see what what goes on here.
Well, he's ricky, is not. I mean, even though he ran
a four to four good good speed, right, he's not one that shows
it. You don't watch him onthe field thinking wow, this guy,
this guy plays, I don't thinkhe plays. You know, he's not
like he plays fast. He's agood, competitive, consistent receiver, go

(04:03:18):
to type of guy. He doesadd some depth as a punt returner,
and and he's solid there. It'snot like you know, so it comes
back to I don't know. Ithink he's just one of those guys that
I've heard it being described as beinga quarterback friendly receiver because he offers you
a number of different things and anumber of elements of versatilities. Yep,

(04:03:39):
and it looks like okay, sowe got to wait a little bit here.
I think on the on the onthe on the docket here for for
Carolina. But they they've made theirpick, Thomas. This one's a little
bit surprising. You've already seen it, guys. He guys are killing me

(04:04:00):
here. I'm using them the frontend of this and I'm just kidding.
It's surprising, Okay. And it'sCarolina moving up. They're taking a local
kid, South Carolina wide receiver XavierLegette. Oh okay, well first round.
Well but we did talk about themtaking receiver. Yeah, we just

(04:04:20):
thought it was okay, Well,we need to talk about him pull his
pull his grades up here. Idon't want to I don't want to bes
this one because you know he isour group. Let me just go here.
You are you looking it up?Yeah? So twenty twenty three years
old. Yep, we yeah,he ran a four three nine forty inch

(04:04:46):
vert twenty four reps on the back. I mean he's Deebo Samuel, right,
I mean, like that's what peoplewant him to be, right,
forty twenty four bench best wraps fortyinch vert four three nine forty kind of
hulked out guy, right, whatdo you think? What? What did
it? Sounds like a Dan Morganguy strong? Yeah, I don't know.

(04:05:09):
This is this is a what didyou say? His height was again
six? So he's like the Imean, I I like this. I
mean they're trying to get the ballout of Brice Young's hands and get and
get the run after the catch.They got Damian Lewis, they got Robert
hunt in uh in the in thefree agency at tech Guard they already have

(04:05:31):
you know, they had ikey Ekwanu, a tackle who they took in the
top ten a few years ago.So so yeah, so this is this
is a this is a pick.And and it's interesting because Xavier came out
and said that the Panthers told himthey would take him. Remember that they
did, yes, and so soPanthers true to their word here take xavierly

(04:05:54):
get. I think you can onlyimagine how much how much concern there was
in that organization last year with thequarterback who is obviously very talented. However,
is you know five ten right,they needed to continue to build that

(04:06:16):
offensive line. I think that's goingto be really important for him and to
your point, going after receiving tocontinue to supply. But where are they
on the old line? I mean, well, they center is the one
place they have indeed on the oldline. And so you know, Jackson
powers Johnson falls out a round one. We are done with round one,

(04:06:37):
by the way, so we've madeit through second annual Sumer Sports Draft show.
Booger wear an orange. I look, I guess back to this is
where are they going to go withthat offensive line and how can they continue
to protect? Do you think thatthey've achieved what they needed to achieve in
free agency? Yeah, I meanthey've They've gotten you know, Clowney Calavian

(04:07:01):
Chase on and like on defense.I feel like sure they've they've gotten.
They've added some pieces. They gotrid of Brian Burns right that they picked
they picked thirty nine tomorrow. Onoffensive line, they got Robert Hunt and
Damien Lewis to play guard. Theyspent you know, twenty million a year
on Robert Hunt, and you know, I would think I think another seventeen
or so, eighteen or so onon Damian Lewis. So up the middle,

(04:07:24):
they've at least I gotten some veteransthere. Tommy Tremble's their only tight
end, you know. And atwide receiver they got Deontay Johnson to go
with their new guy here. SoI just want to see them to continue
to put the pieces around around aquarterback that a lot of eyes are on
right now, right, it's reallyimportant. And look, we didn't get
the comp on it yet, right, I'm very curious. Yeah, I

(04:07:46):
haven't seen. I have to lookand see what the comp I mean,
it's one pick, but it's thefifth year option that they're getting there,
So okay, here we go,is it? Oh? Okay? So
six So they just swapped fifth andsix round picks. That's a pretty good
deal for Panthers. Yeah, itis. You know, that's not that
much. So I think it's agood idea for them to move up.
That's that's a good deal. Yeah. And you know, Bran Tillis,

(04:08:09):
how evolved do you think Brant wasin the in the operation of the picking?
Do you know? I think Ithink very involved. I think he
and Dan Morgan are hand in handon this. And I think Dan,
you know, Dan's a very smartfootball guy, and I think that I
think that things are moving up forthe Panthers. They got some they made
some really, I mean, DeantayJohnson is a very sound move for example.

(04:08:30):
And then they got Josie Jewell into play linebacker. They got Dan
Jackson to play corner. There's there'sa pretty they're they're they're moving, they're
moving the bright direction there. Yeah, And just like you just said,
and you alluded to him, andI know you speak very highly of Brent
Tillis. He's a very good additionto this organization. He's going to help
him in a lot of different ways, along with Dan, who's a really
good football mind. Those two guyscoming together, very smart mind of Brant

(04:08:54):
right who you know well, andand and Dan and the group there right,
how they're going to how they're gonnaput together that team is going to
be really really important for them.And you know, David Tepper, as
we know, is a is aheavy analytics guy. So I'm hoping that
an organization like that continues to reallydig in and understand the importance of data.

(04:09:15):
YEP. So we are all throughthe thirty one picks Thomas before we
wrap up and send it to ourguys for their for their post game show.
He It's been a lot of fun. Always fun to chop up football
with you. When you look backon this first round, what what are
the what are the what are twopicks that stand out to you? Well,

(04:09:39):
it seems like forever ago. Sixquarterbacks went in the top twelve.
Yes like that, like you know, it's like three hours ago, but
it happened. That was big.I love the fact, first of all,
that the first three picks went theway they did for every one of
those teams. You know, wedon't even need to talk about Chicago anymore,
but dan Quinn to make sure theygot Jayden Daniels is great. I
love the fact that the Patriots areable to go in there and take a

(04:10:03):
quarterback like Drake May and build withhim and grow with them because they need
it desperately. In my mind,stay with quarterbacks. I mean, I
think there's gonna be a lot oftalk in this town about Michael Pennix and
in the direction of, you know, even a guy like Kirk Cousins who's
going to do really good things,does that mean, Michael is going to
be back up for two years.Those are the kind of things that I

(04:10:26):
know is going to have to beanswer. There's going to be more questions
about that pick than their answers rightnow. But I mean, he is
a good football player. Called theway it is, I think the only
question is where how far back couldthey have moved a lot of times,
just so you know, people getintel and they're like, look, we
knew A, B and C.We're going to potentially take Michael by fifteen,

(04:10:50):
right, so you never know.So I think those I think those
were big. Yeah, there's abig peak, big big for me.
Yeah, for me, it's it'sbrock Baller. The Raiders was really interesting.
I thought that that, like youbringing up the fact that Telesco is
in India for a while, andlike the that makes a lot of sense
to me. I think I thinkthat the value that teams in the twenties

(04:11:15):
got, the Lions with Terry onArnold, the Eagles with Quinya Mitchell,
the the you know, Nate Wiggins, to the Baltimore Ravens. I thought
there was a lot of value tobe had there by the corners that fell.
I even think the wide receivers thatfell right, you got worthy to
the Chiefs, you got and thenthere was kind of some interesting ones at
the end with guys who weren't necessarilylocks to be in the first round,

(04:11:35):
like Legette and Persia or Percial,like those guys. That was an interesting
one at the end. Did weput a final calculation on how many offensive
players went? Because as you're lookingfor that, my thought is back to
that, right that it took solong to go defense, and when it
went defense it went it went prettydarn good defenders, right. But I

(04:11:58):
think in the end that is,you know, we knew that it was
going to be a heavy offensive draft. We knew the positions that were going
to be you know, short,i e. Running back, right,
We knew if I counted correctly,nine defensive players, so that meant twenty
three offensive players, six quarterbacks,nine offensive linemen. Okay, which actually

(04:12:22):
number of offensive linemen went under becauseof it was nine and a half.
And yeah, so we had acouple upsets at the end. I think
Baltimore and San Francisco could have wentoffensive line and they didn't. They went
with players away from the ball.But man, this has been fun.
We really want to thank our sponsorsat Underdog Fantasy for all of their work.

(04:12:43):
Again Sumer as the promo code willget you one hundred percent match up
to one hundred dollars on underdog dotcom, my favorite fantasy football website.
We want to really appreciate them fortheir sponsoring of this show. They also
sponsor the Suomer Sports twenty two forDraft show on Serious XM, which will
be which will be Saturday morning previewingthe third day of the draft. I

(04:13:07):
want to thank Matt Stofsky, ourproducer extraordinaire. I want to thank everybody
at sumer for all their support.Thomas and I are just two people in
a company full of really really smartpeople, and I want to thank Ben
Brown, Tay Seth, Sean Said, and Sam Brookhouse for their work in
Detroit. Please come back to ourYouTube site as soon as this show is

(04:13:28):
done for their postgame show. Sofor Thomas de Mittrov, this has been
Eric Eager. This has been theSumer Sports twenty twenty four Draft show.

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