Scouting Quarterbacks w/ Fmr. New York Jets General Manager John Idzik | Sumer Scout Deep Dive

SumerSports President of Football Operations and former Atlanta Falcons General Manager, Thomas Dimitroff, interviews SumerSports scout and former New York Jets General Manager, John Idzik, for the Sumer Scout Deep Dive series. In this series, Thomas Dimitroff sits down with his scouting staff to discuss their football journey and how they evaluate positions in the NFL.

Article: https://sumersports.com/the-zone/scouting-quarterbacks-key-traits-and-challenges-in-developing-the-position/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to sumer Scout Deep Dives. We are so excited
about moving into this realm of Suomer Scout and how
we're going to educate the public hopefully. Our guest today
is John Edzick, the historic and very reputable John Edsdick. John,
look great having you on board again. I am so

(00:23):
happy that you've joined us at Summer Sports. We talked
a lot about it right interacting at certain levels, and
we have over the last year and a half. Thanks
for coming on. How's your summer going very quickly?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Good, good, busy summer. We got a couple of weddings
in the family. We had one last year, so it's
been eventful so far. And I echo what you say
about Schoomer Sport. Happy to be a part of it, Thomas,
especially with you. You and I are kind of our
NFL peers for a long long time and it's a
joy to be working with you in the team.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, it's an established team, as you know. It's when
we were really excited about being involved with it. It
brings us to a spot where we're able to interact
with a lot of really talented football people with a
lot of experience and a historical element and that's why
I let in saying historical John, not putting age on
you and me at all. I don't mean that. I'm
saying you have done a lot in football through your

(01:20):
years of growing up as a coach's son, which I
find fascinating. And I am a coach's son myself, so
there's going to always be that bond. We had Chuck
Bresnahan on the other day and he was talking about
his growing up as a coach's son. Can we talk
a little bit about that and talk about, you know,
sort of like your ascension through childhood as a coach's

(01:40):
son all the way up until you know your university years,
because it's such an important part of growing up and
being a football man and a football mind. So if
you don't mind, I would love to chat about that.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Sure, sure, yeah, I like you. I'm a football life
for my dad was a longtime NFL coach. So I
was spoiled, Thomas, because I as I got older and
got into the sport, you know, playing it. Uh, you know,
I got to hang out with the NFL guys, throw
throw the football around with NFL guys, but you know,

(02:14):
and and uh, basically hang around with my dad and
see the coaching end of it too, from a very
young age. So I've been going to training camps, NFL
training camp since i was nine years old.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
And then you know, I'm going to date myself a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
You know, I go back to the Dolphins and the
Greasy Kick Zaka Morris years Uh. You know, after that,
my dad went to Baltimore where he won a Super
Bowl with Johnny and idis Earl Morale, you know all
those guys, and and you know John Mackie. You get
to know these guys. Eddie Hinton, I was a receiver,
so I was a receiver slash quarterback growing up, so

(02:50):
obviously I hung with those guys, and you know, eventually
went to h to the Eagles. As I got older,
you know, you kind of graduate from equipment room ball
boy into more of a coach's assistant. And now I'm
in coaching meetings, you know, alongside with Roman Gabriel, Harold Carmichael,
and I would Dan Henning was one of the coaches

(03:12):
growing up, so he let me just basically shadow him.
And back then off season rules were not quite as restrictive,
so I could actually run routes go through the drills
and be one one of the guys. It was really cool,
especially with the likes of Charlie Young and Charles Smith,
Harold Carmichael. Those guys went to the Jets, and that's

(03:34):
when I was in high school, so that meant a
lot more for me as a player. And you know,
they had the trio there of Richard Todd, Matt Robinson,
Parry and they were characters, so they took me everywhere
on and off the field. I learned a lot from
those guys, Wesley Walker, Jerome Bark and Richard Caster. I

(03:56):
mean some of these names. Again I'm dating myself a
little bit, but they made a huge impact on me
and just how they approached the game and they took
me under their wing. And and again I'm running routes
and throw throwing with the likes of all these guys,
so very impressionable. When I was at with the Jets,

(04:17):
we had drafted a defensive lineman out of Dartmouth. I
was getting recruited by several schools at the time. We
also signed Nick Lowry, a kicker out of Dartmouth, as
a free agent. He ended up having an illustrious NFL career,
and our assistant pr director Edward Snowski was also a
Dartmouth grad. So they were pounding me pretty hard on

(04:39):
Dartmouth and my junior year they were after me pretty good.
I went up visited them. Long story short, I committed
to them, and uh, you know, after you know, once
I got into my college playing years, my dad went
from the Colts, I mean, excuse me, from the Jets
to the colt back to the Colts. And now I

(05:00):
got Burt Jones who had a firearm, you know, so
catching balls like himrid like catching rocks babies. But what
Greg Landry, who had you know, been a long time
in the league. Just to tap into those guys. Growing up,
as I said, I was very fortunate, very spoiled, you know,
as a as a football lifer. So I felt like

(05:23):
they prepared me pretty well.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
John, I mean listening to that, I'm sitting here on
the edge of my seat here in the names. Again,
some of our listeners might be a little younger. They
may have to go Google and research some of the
names that you're talking about. They're unbelievable for those of
us who know and those of us who don't know.
If you read into it, you realize you know, the
background that you have, having a father, being so established

(05:46):
in the NFL, I think you're you're being raised as
a child through your teenage years is like what every
football fan, sort of football player in the United States
and beyond would dream of. I mean, that's amazing being
able to run routes with some of your football heroes, Like,
what an amazing opportunity and experience. So with that in mind,

(06:11):
before we move on to the next part of your career,
when you talk about being raised through your teenage years
and being impressionable, let's talk about that quickly. Let's just
call it the middle of your teenage years fourteen fifteen sixteen,
Like what were the most sort of salient parts of
that being, you know, the leadership side and the learn

(06:34):
lessons during that time and how they molded you as
you moved into university and beyond into your career in
the NFL.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, no doubt. I mean, like I said, I got
an in detail backstage look, day to day look, and
back then in the early years Thomas's you know, training
camps were eight weeks long. There were six preseason games.
We spent an entire week with the rookies alone. Get
to know the rookie class before they even start to

(07:02):
compete against the Vets, and you get to know these
guys as people, you know, and it's just just so
you establish these relationships. And as I said, Harold Carmichael
took me under his wing. You know, he gave me.
I think he had five different nicknames for me, you know,
and Charles Young. They all had personalities, and they all

(07:24):
had different, you know, approaches to their craft, and you
took something from each one. And of course when you're
sitting my dad was largely he was the offensive coordinator
over the years, so you also get a bird's eye view,
you know. I can sit in a receiver's room, or
run through drills with receivers, sit in a quarterbacks room,

(07:46):
listen to my dad converse with the quarterbacks. And again,
these are the likes of Bob Greasie, Hall of Famer
Johnny and iis in my opinion, one of the best ever.
Maybe a little bit biased there, Roman Gabriel, you know,
just Bert Jones. All these guys were obviously talented, But

(08:06):
then how do you take the process of actually learning
the system, applying the system relating to players making corrections?
You know, all the intricacies that go into football, they
just become ingrained in you from an early age, so
it becomes natural. It's the family business, so to speak.

(08:30):
It's not unlike you know, following your mom or dad
in their line of work, and you just learn every
ounce of it growing up because you're exposed to it.
And I was lucky to even the behind the scenes
stuff in the equipment room, the training room, PR when
you're at one camp, I worked as a PR assistant.

(08:50):
Just getting different angles of the business itself outside of
playing and coaching was also very valuable.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I mean thinking about that thing, about how invaluable that was,
and it sets the tone. You learn more and more
about leading and when you go in we'll get to this,
but when you go into becoming you know, senior level
leadership in the National Football League, and some of the
reasons that you got to where you have gotten over
all of your history in the NFL was because of

(09:19):
your background, because you knew the ins and outs of
not only evaluating receivers and quarterbacks and all the other positions,
talking football, knowing scheme. You've had coaching in your background,
and then you know, you turn into what I do
want to talk about very quickly, because I did not
realize that you were an out and out math graduate.
Is that one's your degree correct at Dartmouth?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
That's right. Yeah, so analytics is nothing new to me.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well, you know, that's amazing. You were very involved and
we'll get into it. Of course, you know during the nineties,
right with the collective bargaining agreement, right, and where we
were going in the league, and have a great deal
of knowledge on that, which I'd love to chat with
about in a minute here. But just to cap off
this sort of being raised in this business, and there

(10:05):
is a little bit of a fraternity there, right, sorry,
more than a little bit. All of our sons, you know,
coaches sons over the years we were coaches sons. There's
a great deal of people like that. And then the
next wave. Now as you can see now your son
is working for the Carolina Panthers. Correct, he's been in
the NFL how many years right now?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
He's been in while he was with Stanford for five
This is just his coaching career after he finished playing
at Wake Forest. Then he was with the Seahawks for
Tampa one year and this is his first year. Is
offensive coordinator with the Carolina Panthers.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
I mean truly a family business, right, the fact that
you guys are all able to talk and sit around
and converse. Was your father alive when your son was
really getting interested in football, I mean at that level
obviously not a pro level.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
But yeah, unfortunately he missed him going to Seattle. You know,
he was there just at the onset of Brad's coaching career,
and he saw him play at wake on occasion, but yeah,
he didn't. Unfortunately he didn't get to see Brad's had
a pretty rapid assent and he didn't get to see

(11:16):
some of that. But I know he's looking down on
it now. I know how proud he would be of
his grandson.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Well, I think about that, of course. I mentioned you before.
I mean my father passed away in ninety six, and
he was a longtime coaching, a long time personnel man
in the NFL. And my biggest and most important times
of my life happened to be when I would, you know,
stroll into the University of Alabama or somewhere at you know,
seven thirty or quarter at eight, or probably not it

(11:47):
was the other way around. I was probably in there
at six thirty and my dad would come in around
eight and I'd think, like, come on, now, it's not
what you taught me. You were saying, let's get in
it early. And obviously the veterans, right, we are a
little more a little calmer about coming in there and
not as agitated about getting the clicker, so to speak.
But the family business thing warms my heart out forever,

(12:08):
Like I'm sure you will have great memories about the
NFL and what it did for us. Of course, there
are always ups and downs of our NFL careers, and
we've learned a lot. The reason we handled things away
we did through the ups and downs. However, had everything
to do, I'm sure you would say by being around
it and knowing that it's not.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
A straight line exactly. You know, you witness a lot
through my father's career, and Brad did through my career.
You know, as you say, the ups and downs, you know,
it cracks you up that some of the outsiders would
ask you a question like what do you do during
the off season? There is no off season, and they

(12:48):
just overlap, and you know, the emotion that goes with it,
the effort that goes in with the demands of the job,
the rewards of the job, the relationships that you make.
You know, I was able to witness that through my dad,
and Brad was able to witness that through through me.
So I went into this career eyes wide open, as

(13:09):
did my son. And you mentioned something that's very pertinent, Thomas,
is you know if uh fraternity or brotherhood, that's that's true,
and that's born out of just genuine relationships of going
through some of those trials and tribulations that football gets,

(13:29):
and you you get close to people, uh, you know,
and it's amazing how uh the NFL uh you know,
web network is just so broad that you run into
people that you may not have seen for years and
you just start relating stories or common ties and it's like, boy,

(13:50):
there's an attachment there. Uh. You know. For instance, when
I was a ball boy in Philadelphia for the Eagles,
one of my best friends there at camp and again
we were in camp for eight weeks, so that was
you know, that was our summer camp. You got to
know them really well, the McCormick boys, and one of
my guys was Rod Graves and we ended up working

(14:14):
together twice in the NFL, which was really special to me.
He's like a brother to me. So it's those those
are those are special ties that that go well beyond football.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Well, Rod Graves, I mean, great guy, great person, great
friend of both of ours. I'm so I'm so impressed
with him at so many levels. He's obviously heading up
Fritz Pollard Alliance now, but he is and he is
a very important consultant in you know, in and forsoomer
sports with us right set in on many ideation sessions

(14:47):
with all of us. Obviously, is insight at a lot
of levels, not only football, which he is very adept
of course because he was raised as a scout. But
Rod Graves, he's a businessman through and through, and the
way that he handles himself, of course, is an inspiration
to a lot of people. So we're really happy that
he's involved with us at whatever level he can give us,
of course, John, and obviously you can attest to that.

(15:08):
So moving from your upbringing in football and then your
time at the university or Dartmouth, you moved on, you
did your graduate work at Duke, and then after that,
let's talk about the ascension through the NFL or you know,
coaching quickly, I guess, and through the NFL up to
the spot of becoming the general manager of the New

(15:29):
York Jets, and even beyond. Really interesting times. Right, you
were around some great leaders, You were around some great
football men, not only coaches but management. Can we touch
on some of those people and some of the sort
of again, I know we only have limited time, but
some of the salient, you know, sort of points of
education from some of these men, who again were historical

(15:53):
in our league.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, sure, Yeah. After I finished playing, I had a
brief trial with the New England Patriots and realized coaching
was more in my future. So I went into coaching.
When at the first job was at the University at Buffalo.
Then you can relate to this Thomas. I had the
opportunity at that time my dad was retired. He had

(16:16):
an opportunity to go over to an international league, the
British American Football League and coach in Scotland, and he
asked me to go with him. So I dropped everything
and we spent a season together that I cherish, and
then after that, eventually I wound up at Duke. Part
of my responsibilities that Duke was pro liaison to all
the scouts to come in and I was lucky enough

(16:38):
to have several pro prospects there. Our quarterback Dave Brown
end up in a first rounder for the Giants, Randy
Cuthberts at acc record, we had several guys, so we
had a steady flow of NFL presence throughout the building
and eventually that led to me getting into the NFL
and personnel. I met Tim Ruskell there. He was at

(17:01):
the time the director of college scouting for the Tampa
Bay Buccaneers. This was along the time that again I'm
going to date myself a little bit, but we're moving
from as a league. We were moving from Plan B
free agency, which was somewhat restricted to a new CBA
and bona fide unrestricted free agency. So a lot of

(17:21):
NFL teams were starting to amp up their pro scouting departments,
Tampa being one of them. That offered an opportunity for me,
and Tim was really kind of the the impetus behind
me getting to Tampa and and actually coming back home.
We had lived in Tampa before and starting with the
Bucks that way, so he was the one of Once

(17:43):
I started my NFL career, Tim was, you know, very
influential to me, especially you know, I had been playing
and coaching and now I'm switching gears into the personnel realm.
And you know, to have somebody like Tim who we
became very close quickly. And if you know Tim, he's

(18:03):
got a wonderful sense of humor. So there was never
a dull moment in Buckland. But he taught me various
scouting systems. You know, the Dallas system, your system that
you're familiar with in New England, a Malcolm that we
had in Tampa. You know, what to look for, how

(18:24):
to articulate it, both written and oral, and just all
the little things that go into scouting. And I think
that was really a nice, nice lead in for me
as a player and a coach to get into personnel.
So Tim was Tim was one of the first guys
that really was a mentor of sorts, especially in personnel. Then,

(18:46):
as you know Thomas, we got into this nineteen ninety
three CBA salary cap system for the first time, and
i'd say the first couple of years the league and
clubs were really trying to figure it out. They really
didn't know what this thing was. So there was a
lot of trial and air going throughout the league. Our
general manager at the time was Rich McKay. You know

(19:09):
him well from Atlanta. Rich has always been heavily involved
as a competition committee co chair and at a league level.
So you know, at some point I had to make
a decision, do you want to continue down a coaching path.
We're getting a little bit more specialized as a league
certainly as a club. Do you want to go down

(19:32):
the personnel slash administration path? And I chose the latter.
There were a lot of new things coming up down
the pike and they were coming fast, so learning the CBA,
getting into contract research and negotiations, while at the same
time in Tampa we had a very small organization at

(19:52):
the time, so we wore a lot of different hats.
You continue to be a pro scout, continue to do
college scout. We even did football operations. Uh my my
cohort there. We had a two person uh in house
personnel staff and me and John Garrett, so we actually
ran mini camps and training camps, pro college helping the coaches.

(20:15):
We were doing a lot of different things, so John
was actually a huge influence on me. We were in
an office the size of a closet. We could reach
out and touch each other, which was a good thing.
We got to know each other very quickly and we
jeled uh and so he was he was an influence

(20:37):
obviously with Rich too, very intelligent guy. Uh and uh
he was. He came from a legal background contracts, so
he he taught me a lot about, you know, just
getting involved in CBA compliance contract related matters. That's where
some of my math kicked into, and doing the research

(20:59):
and just managing the cap day to day. So you
know that my Rich was was definitely an influence. And
as I started to move around the league and assume
more responsibilities, more people came into play. You know, I
already mentioned Rod Graves. Rod was the GM out at Arizona.

(21:20):
He brought me on board. You know, I was a
year there and I had the opportunity to to interview
for the GM job in Seattle and I was a finalist.
And going through that process, which was very intricate, I
got to know the Seattle organization very well and lo
and behold, you know, they ended up hiring Tim Russell,

(21:42):
familiar name to me. So Tim brings me up to
Seattle and I felt like I already knew the building,
which was really key to me. A fantastic organization up there.
And you know, Todd Lightwickie was our president, huge influence
on me, how he really ingrained our organization with the community,

(22:03):
people oriented. Fantastic influence on me in Seattle. And then eventually,
you know, we went through a few regime changes there.
Another peer, just like you and me, a lifelong personnel
pure was John Snyder. He became the GM and John
became really a personal advocate for me and and it

(22:24):
really helped me get the GM job in New York.
So John was an influence, and I'd be remiss to
you know, I was always involved with coaches, you know,
whether it be a liaison with Dennis Green or you know,
in the early years, I was helping Mike Schula in
company Sam Whitch. Certainly as a pro scout you're doing,

(22:47):
you're presenting to the team, to the coaches. So I
was fortunate, Thomas. I mean a lot of influences from
the coaching end too in the NFL, not only from
a scheme standpoint, but from how they managed people, you know,
how they they dealt with the press, you know, just
the day to day. You know, I'm you know, talking

(23:08):
about guys like uh, you know, Mike Hongren and Pete
Carroll and Seattle and Dennis Green huge impact on me.
Uh And of course probably one of the biggest influences
from a coaching standpoint was Tony Dungee in Tampa Bay
and and uh, you know, of course we had we
won a Super Bowl with John Bruden. Sam White another

(23:31):
huge influence. So I've been very fortunate along the way
to have who mentors or I just call them just
key cogs in my my career at every stage, whether
it be personnel, you know, or salary cap administration, coaching,
and then certainly some of my player relationships over the years,

(23:53):
like I said before, their their lifelong the last well
beyond football.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
So you you look back and you think about you
or days growing up in the business, in the offices,
in meeting rooms, coaching rooms, talking personnel all those years.
Then you talk about all of your administrative learning through
your ascension through the NFL all the way up to
that general manager spot and again beyond, and you think about,

(24:21):
you know, tying that all together and how that makes
you such an incredibly unique individual with all of your
talents in football and then growing up in it, as
I mentioned, you know, as the foundation of this all.
It's one of the reasons this is my little bit
of a pitch for the Suomer Sports and sumer Scout platform.

(24:42):
I mean, this is what we have here, right, John.
We have a lot of really talented, experienced individuals who,
no disrespect to any other third parties out there, don't
have the background that we have and evaluating a lot
of talent in the experience of comparatives. We know in
the National Football League it is about comparisons, it's about

(25:03):
stack busting. There's a lot of work to be done there.
It's not easy to do. You and I know that
when we first started our evaluation stints. I mean, you're
learning all the time. You can get better, of course,
but it comes with experience. And again, just extremely proud
to have you on board with Sooomer Sports because you're
you know, you're such an important cog in the wheel

(25:24):
for us as we are as I am a cog
in the wheel as we're growing here in our football
operations department. John, again, you are an incredibly important part.
So I do appreciate that. I could go on and
on talking about that. Let's move from all the background again.
We could talk forever about that. Let's jump over to scouting.
Let's jump over to specifically. We're going to talk about

(25:47):
quarterbacks here, because I know that is a passion of
yours and you've evaluated a lot of quarterbacks over your years.
You are very focused on evaluating quarterbacks amongst all the
other positions, of course with suomer sports, and it is
something that we really knock on your door heavily to
get your assessment of where we're going with quarterbacks. And
then we of course do a lot of discussing of

(26:09):
the positions and we have our own internal cross check
system set up here. Let's talk quarterbacks here for a minute.
But before we do that, let's talk generally about scouting
and your interest in all of those years growing up
in football. Did you always know that evaluating was something
that just you know, peaked your interest versus you know,

(26:29):
putting together some scheme or was it was it? Did
you find that eventually? We don't need to talk about
it a long time, But I am curious because a
lot of us like me, as you growing up a
coach's son, I always wanted to be the baddest ass
defensive coordinator in the history of the national football along
the way, my dad said, look, man, I think that's

(26:50):
a that's a great thought and high expectations, but have
you thought about scouting and player personnel? And then of
course I started digging into that because that was a passion.
Can you ex from.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Your point of view, yeah, I mean, you know, again,
as an NFL life for evaluation comes hand in hand
with whatever you do as a player. You're evaluating your opponent,
you're evaluating your cohorts, and you're supporting casts. So that
just came at an early age. And you know, as
you get more formally into the personnel and again I

(27:23):
go back Thomas and I was a melting pot from
a football standpoint, And eventually, especially the way franchises grew
and we became more specialized, you have to make a choice,
you know, do you go the coaching route or do
you go with the personnel route. And I ended up
going the personnel route. It was natural because even as

(27:46):
a coach you're evaluating obviously, you're evaluating every single day.
You're valuating the classroom, practice field, how they interact in
the locker room, ultimately, how they perform on the field,
and how they help you win games. So that that
just it's been, you know, a common thread throughout my
football experience. You said something that that's so pertinent, and

(28:11):
it's you know, it's pertinent to older guys that have
been around for a while. It's certainly pertinent to younger
guys that want to get started in this thing. And
with scouting, there's no substitute for experience. You have to
get it. You know, like you said, when you first start,

(28:32):
you don't have a vast library. Ours may be a
little bit more robust than some because of our childhood
and our upbringing, but basically, when you start formally scouting,
you're building a library, a library of comparisons, a library
of hits and missus and why they hit and why
they missed. A library of how guys may fit in

(28:52):
certain organizations, communities, or schemes and how they may not
fit elsewhere. So you're building that along the way. There's
no there's no substitute for experience. And the only way
you get that is you roll up your sleeves and
you do it. And it sounds trite, but you know,

(29:12):
there's no there's no one thing. My dad taught me,
there's no shortcuts, you know, you just you can't say,
you know, I get the question. I'm sure you did too. Boy,
I really want to be a GM, you know, or
I really want to be a head coach. Slow down
their part. You know that there's there's a lot of
mileage between here and there, and if you're fortunate enough
to get one of those thirty two, hopefully you're prepared

(29:34):
to do it. And the way you're prepared is you've
gone through the intricacies of scouting and some of the
other aspects. You know, some of the contract elements, and
now all of a sudden you're managing a training camp
and these things that you never fathomed before. But you know,
in personnel again, I go back to credit Tim Jerry Angelo.

(29:58):
We had quite a personnel stat back there in Tampa
when I started. I think we ended up putting six
gms into the league. Uh and and uh just banding
together and really uh lucky that there wasn't a well
oiled machine. We were constructing it. You know, we were
building that buck filter where we felt like, you know,

(30:19):
we made some mistakes at high level picks or free
agent signings, so we're going to build what's important to
us as an organization. And that's when we really started
to take off. So there's a you know, that was
a you know, a valuable lesson to be learned in
personnel and not just the measurables and and you know,

(30:41):
you know, all that stuff's important, but how does it
apply to your current situation and your current team and organization?
And you know, all those experiences add up, Thomas, and
they really help you just you know, address different situations
as you go throughout your career.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
When I hear you talk about, you know, the Buck
Way and Jerry Angelo historic figures again and another historic
figure and Jerry Angelo of course goes on to the Bears,
very very well respected personnel and GM in the league
over the years. Remember you mentioned this a little bit earlier,
and I just wanted to piggyback off of it. And

(31:21):
I don't know if the listeners in general public know this.
When you come into the National Football League, there is
a major drive from coaches and personnel men to say
are you committed to coaching or are you committed to evaluation?
And at first there's a little bit of a grace
period there. Right, some of the coaches come in as

(31:42):
interns and they decide they want to go over to personnel.
But we you know that you and I have grown
up as leaders in it and also as the young
ones in it, and we had to make a decision.
Are you committed? A lot of people don't know out
there if you're a football man and you come in
and you think you want to see and you think
you want to coach, and the vacillating is not really

(32:03):
accepted that well because it is a not for long
league and an organization doesn't want you flipping around between
coaches and personnel. Now, I also say, like you said,
it's imperative that you have if you're a decide to
go on the personnel side, it's imperative that you have
very good relationships in communication with coaches. All I am

(32:24):
saying is you can't be down the hall when you're
supposed to be evaluating talent, you know, reading through the
playbook every day of your life, trying to figure that out.
You do need to figure it out, and you need
to figure out the schemes, and that's hopefully done through
your coaching staff and your personnel department by creating seminars
and having everyone learn. But we have always pressed on

(32:45):
the personnel side. Hey, if you want to coach, go
give coaching a try. If it doesn't work or it's
not what you want, then come back and tell me
when you're ready to fully commit to personnel. Again, there
are nuances to that, John, of course, because those of
us who have been raised in football and coaching backgrounds,
we definitely want to interact. But you have to commit
in our world and today because it's such a specific

(33:08):
and big business back in the day, I mean even
even going back to the Bengals, are there probably the
one team out there that is expecting their coaches to
scout in the off season, right and so, But there
are a lot of other organizations who try to steer
people clear of like, here's your way, you stay in coaching,
here's your way you stay in personnel. As you get

(33:29):
ready for the draft and free or free agency. In
the draft, of course, you're interacting a little bit on
both sides, talking scheme and talking personnel. But it is
something that I wanted everyone to know that there is
there is a strong element of making sure you're committed
to the craft that you're you are committed to, whether
it's personnel or whether it's coaching.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
No, I remember that discussion vividly with Jerry Angelo. Like
I said before, you know, we reached a point we're
back in the day. You mentioned it, Thomas, that there
is a lot more overlap between coaching and scouting. You know,
we didn't have big staffs back then, so you coaches
went out on the road, and you know, scouting staffs

(34:11):
were not nearly what they are today. So but as
we grew and it became bigger business and a lot
bigger decisions are being made on the personnel side, you
hit the nail on the head. You have to commit
to it. You have to commit to your career. And
I think that's one piece of advice I give to
anybody is whatever you're doing, it may not mesh up

(34:35):
with your vision. You know, I wanted to be a coach,
or I wanted to be a scout, or you know,
whatever it is. But whatever you're doing, commit to it.
And it's amazing what you'll discover about yourself and how
things will come your way. And that's the only way
really to thoroughly grow in the league and in the
sport is commit to it, otherwise you probably won't be

(34:56):
there for too long.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Well, John, I mean another great point. I mean, we're
we're proselytizing now. As two older gentlemen in this league.
I completely agree with you. I also say there's no
problem with professionally developing. If you want to dig into
the playbook in the summer, when you have that month
or six weeks off, man jump in. If you want
to go out and learn about data science and take

(35:19):
Coursera courses, I would say do it. Of course, you
don't need to be doing that in the middle of
the season when your organization is relying on you to
go out and evaluate or set up draft boards or
set up the free agency system, whatever that may be.
I always encourage people John pipeline guys and young and
up and coming guys. Whether it's your son's agent. Of

(35:40):
course he's moving through expeditiously and very well. There are
others out there that I tell them, like, make sure
that you balance your time and you're always growing and
finding parts of your career ascension to differentiate yourself. So
if you are a pro personnelse out, yes, man, be

(36:01):
the best pro personnel scout. You can be nuanced everything.
And I think it's really important to continue to grow
in today's fast paced not for long league you in
today's world. And I say this respectfully to any of
us who I have old school to us, you have
to have multiple layers and you can't just be perceived

(36:21):
as a footthead just a football guy. You know, you
came in with a great knowledge of mathematics and numbers
at a time when data and analytics and football it
was always used, as you know, but never to the
level of now. And think, I think this is just
a good thought for everyone. Make sure you are coming
in and you are focused one hundred percent being the
best that you can be in those areas of scouting.

(36:43):
Those of you are aspiring, but also continue to grow
on the side when it's not interrupting. It is something
that I believe heavily in. And by the way, I
would say this very quickly, I have to tell this story,
I know, being mindful of talking a lot about quarterbacks here.
John had mentioned here everyone that back in the day,
most of the scouts came from the coaching ranks. They

(37:04):
were coaches that coached for many years and then decided
they wanted to get into scouting. Some of them called
the way it was weren't really good coaches and they
ended up in the scouting ranks because they were more
adept at evaluating talent. Respectfully speaking, there were all kinds
of nuances during those times in the sixties and seventies
and beyond where scouts were out on the road, and

(37:25):
this is where it generated all of that dialogue about,
you know, college head coaches not getting along with player
personnel people and the rumors that we used to hear
when I first got into it, Man, this head coach
doesn't like scouts, So make sure you stay on the
other side of the line. I won't get into names,
because there are some hot coaching names out there that
you guys would be surprised who weren't fans of player

(37:48):
personnel and NFL people, maybe because they didn't get hired
in the NFL, or maybe because of some of what
I'm also going to talk about, and that was there
were rumors out there that ex coaches who became scouts
were buddies with someone at another team that they were
scouting in the conference. And we found one of the
scouts that was in our desk drawer looking at our
game plan. I'm like, oh, come on, paranoia, right, paranoia

(38:11):
And it's a funny. We laugh about it back in
the day. I don't hear it as much anymore because
the days of coaches kind of being the bulk of
our scouting departments has changed a lot. But it is
a historic element that we all get together and have
a glass of wine and talk about, you know, the
days of old in the NFL, and it was interesting.
So scouting has got a lot of interesting historical traits

(38:33):
and a historical sort of episodes and stories that have really,
you know, formed who we are as a as a profession. Now.
So John, let's jump over to let's jump over to
quarterbacks for a minute. Your love for quarterback and evaluating
quarterbacks and receivers. Of course, did that come early too,
where you always honed in on the nuances and focusing

(38:56):
on quarterbacks, and then we'll dig into the actual position
and how we actually evaluated.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
Yeah, sure, well it's always been a part of me.
I played receiver and quarterback in high school, was receiver
in college. So as I said, when I'm going to camps,
I'm honed in there. And my dad was an offensive coordinator,
so from a scheme and teaching standpoint, those were the
rooms I was in. So yes, That's always been a

(39:23):
part of me because of that's what I was exposed
to and that's what I ended up playing. I'll say
this in this kind of parlays off of you taking
opportunities to kind of branch out when the time presents itself.
One of my most valuable early experiences when I went
to Duke, I was an offensive line assistant, and that

(39:45):
gave me a completely different perspective from a schematic standpoint,
from you know, meshing I got a little bit with
the tight ends, but meshing the pass game with the
run game very valuable for me. But of course my
experience and uh comfort levels to a certain degree was
with quarterbacks and the overall scheme and their responsibilities and

(40:10):
the receivers.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
So, John, I want to say this very quickly, such
a great point. Most people out there think, you know,
that don't know about scouting and the again the nuances
of it. They think that we're all just experts at
one position. It's the biggest miss misperception out there. Of course,
to your point, we are all, as personnel men in
the NFL, expected to evaluate and be adept at evaluating

(40:32):
every position, not just the positions that we you know,
we become our so called expertise. Right, most times in
an organization, people will say, hey, look, look, you know
John Izack is a guy we want to talk to
about quarterbacks and receivers. You know, Bobby de Paul, one
of our other other esteemed participants consumer sports, you know,

(40:53):
is a is a big defensive line guy, right. He
and Chuck Bregenahan, who we interviewed recently as a big
linebacker and defensive coordinator. So of course the focus is
going to be on there. You also made it a
very important point. I did the same thing. I mean,
let's call the way it is. Any coach that you're
dealing with and any GM during the times, they're going
to look at you first and tried to discern you know,

(41:16):
where your talents are, and they're initially going to go
to the position you played in college high school, in
college if you were fortunate enough and even to play
in the pros. We have some really great guys out
there that played in the Pros that have become scouts
and played oh line. I mean Russ Bollinger, Joel Patton,
guys like that that are just I call them world
renowned as far as their understanding of the position, but

(41:37):
it's imperative that you dive into the position that wasn't necessary.
I spent countless hours and reports, report writing and evaluating
on offensive line, mainly in the World League when I
was there for two years. I spent a lot just
because I needed that pool of players to compare to,
and I became really fascinated with that position, even though

(42:00):
of course I would never have played that position at uh.
Kevin Colbert will laugh at this because he never got
me at five to nine when he taped. When he
put the tape on me, I was eight and three
quarters five eight and three quarters. But I would never
obviously play O line, but I loved watching it and
really digging in. So it is important for everyone to know, Yes,
we tend to gravitate towards a position we played, but

(42:22):
to become a GM in my mind, and to become
a well rounded senior level executive, you have to understand
every position and be a dept at evaluating. So great
lead and quarterbacks, let's talk. When you look at quarterbacks, John,
what is name the two, three or four things that
are the most important and how will you how do
you start off your evaluation with a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Well, and this just in general terms. It doesn't apply
only to quarterbacks. It's anyone you're evaluating. Thomas, I'd say,
you know, it's going to sound a little bit contradictory
because we're scouting by nature as a subjective business, judgment
on a guy's ability or his background or whatever it is.
But I always used to say, hey, you know, you

(43:06):
must be objective in this subjective business, and by that
I mean turn out the outside noise. You know it's
fine too, you know, as you know, there's scouting clicks
as you're out on the road, and there's a lot
of chatter. And I don't when I start looking at
especially a quarterback, because there's so much on his plate,

(43:27):
I don't want any preconceived notions. So I just want
to look at him through my lens and then make
my evaluation. Then all that other things that you hear,
especially when it comes down to background and how the
guy handles himself or worries viewed by other teams and
all that. That's valuable stuff, but you don't want that
to creep into your evaluation. So I'd say you first

(43:49):
start off by remaining objective or simply grade what you see,
not what you hear. That's just kind of in general.
But you know, quarterback are just so unique in that
I think it's been said, and I think it's true.
It's the most demanding and difficult position to play in

(44:10):
professional sports. There's so much heaped on the quarterback in
the way of yes, physical and athletic ability. We all
raid those traits, but also the mental side of the game,
the leadership aspects. You know, you are in control, so
how do you manage the game? How do you provide
the bridge between the coaching staff and the players on

(44:35):
the field. There's so much that goes into that position
that you know you have to you have to be
adept at evaluating each corner of the quarterback so that
you can accurately describe him and therefore, you know, ascertain
is this guy going to be a fit or you know,
is he something that we someone who we can develop

(44:58):
or not. So it's a you know, a lot of
the you know, a lot of the traits Thomas have
been around for, you know, the obviously measurable physical traits,
athletic traits I weight, speed, and you know, we we
got into that a little bit. I've had examples of
guys that may not have measured up, but they ended

(45:20):
up being pretty good football players. And it's how you
evaluate him. And again it's it's it's being objective on
those And two examples that come to mind. One, I
just went up to Campton last year and saw him
inducted into the Hall of Fame in Fronde Barber. We
drafted him in the third round. And when you evaluate him,
was he the biggest corner? No? Was he the fastest

(45:40):
corner forty times?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
No?

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Was he the quickest? Did he have instant personal No?
I mean he was quick, But what are the other
things that that lent him to being a a you know,
a special player? Uh? And did he offset and over
the long haul he did. The intellect, the instincts, the toughness,

(46:02):
the physical play, durability, all that thing led him to
be a Ring of Honor, Hall of Fame guy, set
NFL records for sacks, DB's consecutive starts, all that, So,
don't get too tied up. They're important those age old traits.
Physical traits are important, certainly as they apply the quarterback position,

(46:23):
but there's much more to that, especially at that position.
Another example would be Russell Wilson. You know Russell Wilson.
We drafted in the third round back in twenty twelve
in Seattle. We just signed Matt Flynn at you know,
a great season finale and John knew him from Green Bay, soho,

(46:44):
he had a lot of background, signed him to be
our starter. Russ Was he going to play baseball or football?
You know, he's short, guy, can't see over the line
of scrim He's going to have trouble. But when you
really evaluated him, Thomas On the guy had huge hands,
so he had no problem handling the ball too. He

(47:06):
was very instinctive in the pocket, so he could maneuver.
Despite what may be perceived as height deficiency never came
into play. So even from an analytical standpoint, when you
went back to NC State in Wisconsin and you looked
at him, how many balls did he have bad at
the line of scrimm? Very few, So there is something

(47:27):
to offset what was perceived at the time as a shortcoming.
And you know, at that position, there's so many traits
that you can evaluate that you know, just make sure
you're paying attention to all of them, because that's telling
you the entire picture. It's too easy can just reject
quickly on Russell Wilson. Excuse me, I'm so sorry, because

(47:48):
it is unfortunate as good as he was that at
the back end of the career, people like that's what
they remember, Like it is an atrocity.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
In my mind. And I'm being, you know, obviously exaggerate here,
but you know, he did so many things for you
guys in Seattle. Of course, the Denver situation was tough,
and we'll see what happens. But people are now like
hanging off of what happened in Denver, and that is unfortunate.
So I just wanted to add that because obviously Russell
Wilson is a great example of what you're talking about.

(48:17):
And we talk about you know, we talk about skill
sets right in player Personnel and Scout, and we talk
about skill sets at summer sports. We call them the
metric trees, right, they're the position specifics. Let's dig in
a little bit, John, to the position specifics of the quarterback.
Do you personally do you watch two or three VIDs first?
Are you taking notes from snap one that you watch?

(48:40):
Are you getting a feel first? Are you just focused
on the athleticism side first and then going into mechanics.
Can you, you know, edify us a little bit from
your perspective how you approach evaluating a quarterback.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Yeah, and I really want to try to get to
know the quarterback and how he got to where he
is today. So, you know, the first before I even
put on a tape, I want to feel the player.
You know, So, how did you get to the quarterback position?
What was your progression? You could go back to high school.
For collegiate guys, certainly as they get into college, we

(49:15):
have six year vets coming out of college now, so
that and some guys transfer three and four times over.
So what schemes have you been exposed to? Where have
you produced better than others? Just get what's your injury history?
Are you durable? Those type of things, and of course
you're going to get the height and the weight and
you know, some strength measurables and all that flexibility. But

(49:39):
just get to know the guy where he's been and
how he got to where he is today. And that
drills down to even the current season. So if you're
looking at a twenty twenty five draft eligible quarterback, I
like to look at him at various points throughout that season.
I have a history of all you know, what he

(50:00):
how he got to his what could be a senior
season or a super senior season, but I want to
know how he's progressing through that season itself. What were
some of the challenges, what were some of the high points,
and the reason why. So you're really Thomas, You're really
just gaining a feel for that player and where he's
been and how he got there. And now you dive

(50:22):
into start evaluating his footwork, is throwing mechanics, his ability
to torque, his ability to throw on the move, where's
his launch point, how deep does he get in his sets?
You know, all the tech technical stuff that goes along
with the position. They're accentuated at our level. They may

(50:46):
be able to get away with some things at the
collegiate level that will be really you know, exploited if
you will at the NFL level. If you cannot throw
off platform from various arm angles, or throw without a
full follow through with accuracy short to intermediate, or you

(51:07):
don't have the velocity to get the ball outside the
numbers twenty twenty five yards down the field in a
very tight NFL window, those are some of the things
that you look at beyond the normal athletic and position
specific crates at that position.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
John, you talked about velocity, and we know how important
velocity is. One of the again, misperceptions sometimes outside of
our league is you have to have a rocket of
a arm, and that's just not the case. Velocity is
different than you don't need to come in there like
Jeff George and have the strongest arm in the history
of the world, because sometimes players like that don't possess
all the other requisite traits that you're looking for in

(51:48):
a quarterback. Right, So it's an understanding of where they
are within that area. Right, there may be strengths in
other areas, and that player quarterback may have a good arm,
not an excellent arm or a rare arm, and he
can still do unbelievable things in this league. You're You're
exactly right. There has to be of course, appropriate velocity.

(52:10):
Are there any other traits out there that you think
are misunderstood by people and they think, well, quarterback's got
to be this or has to be that that you've
realized over the years that yeah, it's important. But the
number one thing for me, like for instance, is I
do need when I'm watching a quarterback to make sure

(52:30):
that accuracy is intact, right, I mean, you can't be
a quarterback. You can have great arms, you can have
athleticism and move around, but if you're not accurate and
you're you're sailing balls more than you should be, that
is a legitimate concern. So can you comment on something
along those lines?

Speaker 2 (52:46):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean you mentioned you know when you
can get wild by arm strength, especially when you're throwing
on air seven on seven. You know, you go through
Pro Day and just wow, you know, we've seen JaMarcus
Russell could throw it on yards, you know, but are
you going to hit your target? So, and even if
you have velocity at an NFL level, Thomas, can you

(53:07):
pace the ball? You know, there's a there's a balance
between touch and velocity. Uh, And there's there, there's we
have uber talented receivers, backs and tight ends in this
league that can do magic with the ball if you
give them a chance. So do you facilitate rack? You know?
Are you do you protect your receivers when they're going

(53:29):
into traffic? Those are all points that are accentuated at
the NFL level. And if you're just throwing blindly seven
on seven, that may look pretty but it may not
apply in all cases in the NFL, you know, So, yeah,
those traits of h and I'll just say this too,
That position, like many, but I think more so, has

(53:54):
just evolved and expanded over the years. You know, we
used to be primarily a three five seven prop back
pocket passing league. Not anymore. Now we've got to be
able to move, We've got to be able to elusive.
You've got to be able to threaten with your legs
in some cases. You know, you've got RPOs to quick
decisions in both phases of the game. So there's so

(54:19):
much that go, so much more that goes into that
position nowadays to evaluate, And you're right, it is a
it's a game of offsets, so to speak. Where you
may not in Russell's case, he may not be the
tallest guy, but he has great pocket presence and maneuverability
in a short area, so he can find throwing lanes

(54:40):
and it's not an issue. He offset that. You know,
you may have that. You may not have the strongest
arm in the league, but you know what, you're an
anticipatory thrower, So I can throw a guy open before
he makes his cut, and I don't I don't necessarily
have to power the ball through a tight window. I'm
going to anticipate that window, knowing the coverage and be

(55:03):
inaccurate and have the same results. So you're you are
constantly where there may be relative I see relative deficiencies
because all these guys that that are, you know, buying
to make it in the NFL, are are talented, talented athletes.
But you know where there may be relative deficiencies. How

(55:26):
do you offset that? And and as a scout, you
want to accurately describe that. And that's where fit comes in.
Where this guy, this is what he does really well,
does it fit what you want to do. Otherwise you're
trying to force something on a guy and it's really
unfair to the player. You're not going to put him
in the best possible light. But you know, you go

(55:49):
back to the traits and you know in the college game,
rarely you do you see him operate under center. We
do more so in the league. Albeit we're more of
a gun and pistol league now, but there's a lot
more variety in the NFL, especially if you go to
a run oriented offense, so ball handling and all, you know,

(56:11):
operating from under center versus back and footwork in both aspects,
and depth and balance and and you know, all those
things come into play when you're evaluating a quarterback and
again release point, you know, is he a wide strider?
Does he require more room in the pocket? All those

(56:33):
things you should be able to evaluate and adequately describe
to your organization so that they gain a full picture
of who this this quarterback really is. We and and Thomas,
we haven't even touched on yet. Another critical, equally critical

(56:54):
portion of the position is the mental part of the game.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Well, I was going to lead into that because one
of the things, just so the listeners know, there is
normally not just one or two reports on a quarterback,
on any position. When we're evaluating inside an NFL organization,
you might have ten evaluations or more. You're not only
combining the college staff who is grading the quarterback potentially

(57:19):
coming out a lot of times you'll have part of
your pro staff evaluating. Of course, you'll also have your
coaching staff evaluate. That could be the coordinator, it could
be the position coach. And there are just there are
so many levels to evaluating a quarterback again, all positions,
more so than ever. Of course, the quarterback leading into
mental Before I go into mental quickly, just John, can

(57:42):
you comment the importance of being at a game live
for a quarterback more than any other position, whether you're
watching him on the sideline interact, or whether you're watching
him come off the field. Can you expound just fairly
briefly on the importance of pulling that leadership side before
we get into the mental discussion.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
No doubt, and again much more applicable to quarterback than
any other position. There's nothing like seeing him live and
seeing how he manages the day. And that goes right
back to pregame warmups. What is this guy's routine? How
does he interact with his coaches? How does he interact
with key players that he's going to rely upon during

(58:21):
the game. Then you go between series? What is he
doing between series? You know, you do get body language
and just how he treats the opponent, officials, his teammates.
You get a sense watching him live and how he

(58:42):
manages a game and how he manages the offense and
how he manages his team. So there's really no substitute
for that. You know, he takes a big shot, how's
that going to affect him? Not only the next play,
next series. But he may come on off and be evaluated.
How's he come back? You know, you may not get

(59:04):
all of that, you know where he's trying to shake
it off on the sidelines, You're not getting that on tape. Uh,
And then you know, how does that? How does that
translate to is his next series? So there's so much
to be gained by watching them live and seeing them
interact and seeing them react to different situations. Could be loud,

(59:26):
could be weather, you know, it could be a level
of confidence. Is uh his opponent. So you're you're gaining
a real nice feel that when you watch him live.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
So John before again, before we go into uh, the
mental side, I do want to hit on this and
ask you your opinion. We've all seen some incredibly talented
quarterbacks come through the ranks again, some strengths in certain areas,
some some not. Some incredibly athletic, incredibly talented arms and

(59:59):
and just pure quarterback skills, and yet maybe again don't
possess the requisite traits of leadership, and they're a little
bit immature in their development, whether it's mentally or whether
it's it's interacting, and whether it's executive functioning are you
a fan of thinking we if you found a quarterback

(01:00:19):
that was so talented and very raw in other areas
that you would put an inordinate and that's probably the
wrong word. I was going to say, an inordinate amount
of resources into that quarterback. Or is that an uphill
battle and something that'll nip you in the knee if
you end up. Hey, we're going to bring in two
or three other people into the building who are going
to take care of them in this side. We're going
to get him to the building on time. We're going

(01:00:41):
to manage his life outside so that we can really
reap the benefits of the pure skills of this quarterback.
Is it worth that or are you? Is it unused energy?
And eventually it'll it'll again, it'll bite you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Yeah. I think that's a case by case basis. But
it's easy, especially in our league, to become intoxicated with talent, right,
and it kind of gets blinding at times where this
guy is so talented. Boy, he is a textbook thrower.
He can throw it through a brick wall. He has
all the athletic skills he you know, he's equally a

(01:01:18):
threat with his arm and his leg all that stuff.
But as long as you recognize one, you're looking at
it and you're evaluating it like any other athletic or
physical skill. How does the guy lead? How does he
manage things? That is such a critical component of that position,
unlike any other you know, say, you know, of course

(01:01:40):
you're Mike Becker, you know whoever's running the defense, and
even that's not at that level. So it's as long
as you're aware of it, Thomas, and you articulate it,
it may be worth taking a chance on that guy.
And it depends on how much you're going to invest. Right,

(01:02:02):
you just have to go in eyes wide open that
this guy, while he may have the athletic skills, you know,
everything you want from a physical standpoint, at the position throwing,
does he have the i'll call him the intangibles, the mental,
the cerebral, the leadership so critical at that position. And

(01:02:25):
again we've seen it time and time and again where
this guy is so talented, my gosh, but in our league,
if they find a weakness, they will they will really
accentuate it, they will exploit it. And at that position,
if you're not prepared to lead, and I'll say this
too again, I go back to really getting a feel

(01:02:49):
for the player, you know, and how he leads, how
he interacts, how he learns talking to his coaches. You know,
is he a quick process or some guys you know
what they are, light and fast, quick process the Kirk
Warner just great quick game, you know, and some guys
they'll take a little more time to do it. Can

(01:03:10):
they cure that to a certain extent over time, Who knows,
But you have to describe that in your evaluation. So
you go in eyes wide open, and who that player
is and what he may need to work on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
John. The last point I want to talk about is
what we were talking about a little bit earlier, hinting
at as the mental side and what needs to be
stressed here for everyone who is listening. We're not talking
about the academic side of an individual. We are talking
about the football intelligence of an individual. Of course, if
there's an incredibly smart person out there, and we've had

(01:03:43):
some really good quarterbacks come out recently in the drafts,
who you're thinking, wow, this is over the last few years.
This guy is such a rounded individual. He is academically
on top of everything. He has a whiz on the board,
He understands how to adapt on the field. Can we
speak a little bit about different between the mental ability
of the quarterback and what's expected in the league versus

(01:04:05):
just pure academic intelligence and intuitive and brightness. I think
that's important to differentiate.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Sure. I mean, it certainly is an asset to have
the book smarts or the academic smarts. You know, you
can consume information, you have a memory, good memory, good recall.
That certainly is an asset. But there's one thing to
be in book smart and another thing to be in
game smart. Where Okay, how do you apply that on

(01:04:35):
the field or are you able to translate it from
book to field? And that's that comes down to, you know,
what you termed as just football intelligence, being a football player,
and some things you instinctively do so while some guys

(01:04:56):
may have may take a little bit more time to
get through. And these offenses, now some of these play
calls are the length of our arm, right, So just
just to be able to articulate that much less consume
it and understand it, that's that's a hurdle in itself.
But how do you apply it when you're on the

(01:05:19):
field and things don't go exactly as scripted as the
old Tyson saying goes, you had a great plan until
you get punch in the mouth. So I mean it's
it's it's some of that. I mean, this is more
of the cerebralend. Practically, when you're on the field, is
you know, do you have an overall awareness? Do you

(01:05:41):
have a great field vision? You know, you you just
have a sense of where people are. You can sense pressure,
you can sense coverages and where they're going to be.
You can sense angles, you know, and then just the
practicality of like I said, getting the play call, communicating
with others, getting the alignment, the brief snap reads, identifying pressure,

(01:06:04):
you know, all that goes back to the mental side
of the game. And you know, it's it's really the
more adept staffs understand where that quarterback is with respect
to his mental development and try to cater to that.
So if you try to fire hose a youngster that

(01:06:25):
may not may not you know, consume as quickly as
some others, you may be putting him in a disadvantage
and sometimes that can affect his confidence early on. If
he doesn't he's used to having success and that now
he just feels a little bit lost mentally. That can

(01:06:46):
wear on some guys pretty quick, and now that affects
his athleticism, all the things that he brought to the table.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
Love it. I mean again, we could talk forever about it.
We can talk about beyond this. We can talk about
how we go through the process of evaluating the mental
elements right, getting the coaches involved when we're out during
pro days during the spring, when we're looking at college
prospects moving into the NFL. There's so many levels and
so many approaches, and people and people and organizations approach

(01:07:16):
it in different ways. Suffice it to say, it is
vital to come away with a strong understanding of how
much that quarterback can handle mentally. Again, a great topic
of conversation for another time. We will revisit quarterbacks during
the season. You and I will revisit this back on
another pod, of course, as we're watching some of these
young quarterbacks, or even watching some of the quarterbacks in

(01:07:37):
the NFL and how important they are with regard to
how they're handling the mental side of it all. But John,
this has been fantastic. Love having you again on board.
Love conversing whenever we get the opportunity. I know we're
all so busy these days, but to be able to
talk about this for an hour and seven minutes to
me has made my day. So I think I'll go

(01:07:58):
out there and if I do hit a couple golf,
I'm hoping that my focus will move away from quarterbacks.
In our conversation, Baddy get me hitting it straight. But
thank you so much for your time, John, and we'll
definitely revisit John Izac. I'm a former GM in National
Football League and historic figure in my mind in the NFL.
Just so glad to have you on.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Thank you. I really enjoyed it, Thomas

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Thank you, John,