Ep. 187 - Get To Know Chris McCammon

Join Drew as he meets his clone from San Diego! The Aptera Chief of Marketing!

Aptera’s New Podcast: https://youtu.be/HsR2_0RcwvQ?s...

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Published: 7-27-2024, Recorded: 7-25-2024

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome back to the tailos Amy podcast. Ladies and gentlemen
and a number of gingers on the show has officially doubled.
Finally got rid of those other guys. We have a
very special guest, mister Chris m from APTERA. How's it going,
I'm great? How are you, Drew good? I'm actually super
excited about this because I've gotten to interview Chris a CEO.

(00:35):
I briefly met Steve, and Jason's come on the channel
a couple of times, which is always a pleasure. But
you're usually who I correspond with, and yet I never
get to sit down and get to know you.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm busy just like everyone else.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, you're keeping the lights on, You're keeping everything running.
So thank you for sacrificing some of your busy schedule
for us today. Appreciate it, of course. Well, since there's
so many similarities here, it's like I'm looking in a
mirror when.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I ask manage the beard and like the style.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
You also dropped your glasses today. Normally you got glasses,
so we're even more up. We have the same inappropriate
to ask, But how old are you?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
I'm twenty six?

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, we're the same age I'm guessing you had. You
probably had a Minecraft YouTube channel at one point.

Speaker 2 (01:29):
Yeah, did you?

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Well, we all did. Come on a way Okay, twenty
six year olds, Why are back in the day on
the gaming channel? Probably a couple thousand? How about you? Nice?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
My Minecraft channel had sixty thousand back in the day.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Oh dude, are you Captain Sparkled?

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Is this right?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I have?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I used to do Minecraft parodies, so my biggest one
has four million views. You probably heard it as.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
A was it?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
It was I banned you a by Selo Green.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
See, these are the kinds of details I never get
if I don't ask, So that's why I bring it up.
That's everybody had a Minecraft channel though. That's just it's
the equivalent of like back in the eighties everyone was
in a rock band. Like everyone in these days, everyone
had a gaming channel at some point.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
I feel like it's still the case whenounced Roadblocks. There
was a point in like late high school, when I
was entering college where I was like, I don't want
to play a game, a single game, for the rest
of my life and make that because like all my friends,
that's a full time job. They switched to Roadblocks YouTube stuff. Wow,

(02:47):
but I'm like, I felt like there's more out there
for me, and I like emerging technology so much that
I separated from that.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
But yeah, I don't think so. I think the meaning
of life is probably roadblocks. That's kind of peak career.
You can't get much better.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yeah, it's weird though, when you're at that level. I
was on a mind Con panel when I was like
thirteen or fourteen, like oh wow, yes, and like like
kids kept coming up asking for my autograph, but I
was also it was just super strange.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
It was a weird. That's fascinating. Well, obviously things changed.
I'm curious how did you bridge from Minecraft celebrity into
getting into electric vehicles, Like even before working at Aptera,
were you into evs? How did that start? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:36):
My story is stupid weird. It doesn't really like it's
very very fake. It feels like, so, I I want
I needed a car at college, so I was really
going to get like a Mini Cooper because I just
didn't know what I wanted, want some cheap I ended
up finding out, oh, Honda Civics are actually good and

(03:57):
like look super cool. So yeah, I like that. It
had you know, Android Auto, Apple car play. I was like,
that is great, and I was jealous of Tesla's like
I couldn't afford one back then, or you know, didn't they.
I thought I was so out of reach, but I
was that was like my dream car. But I'm like,
I want autopilot, but I don't want to get a Tesla.
So then I saw Honda Sensing. I was like, that's

(04:18):
the same thing, isn't it. So I got a Honda
Civic with Honda Sensing, which is so sketch how I
used to use it as a kid, like I would
just like tug the wheel every ten seconds and like
food or whatever. But that's not it's not really like
everybody else.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Then.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, so then I was like, is there something better?
I ended up finding out about open Pilot, which at
that point TRAMA wasn't even selling a single device like
open Pilot as an open source driver assistant system. Yeah,
so I sourced a phone, a circuit board, I threw
d printed the case, and I slaughtered for the first

(04:55):
time to solder the connector up in the headliner to
get it working.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Man, You're brave.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, there's a there's a news article about me in
Maine because like I was it was like whiz kid
hooks up car to drive itself.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
That's awesome. But started then it was in Maine.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, I'm from Maine, so that's where I did that.
Went to college in Vermont. But honestly, like the college thing.
It was like a business degree for game production management,
so it's more like project management and marketing combined. But
the game industry is very volatile and I'm not really
a gamer. I just thought it was cool sure from yeah,

(05:39):
So throughout college I made videos of open pilot on
my vehicle on my civic and then ended up reaching
out to Comma. I was like, I'd love to work there.
I eventually the CEO, George Hats, who's the famous iPhone
jail breaker. Uhh yeah, iPhone e jail broke the p
S three. He's a big famous hack Wow. He reached out,

(06:02):
did an interview, and I was like one of the
first people out of college to have like a job
lined up. So I ended up being head of Communications
at Comma for a little over two years where we
were making Comma devices. I probably shipped five thousand Comma twos.
As the head of production there too, so I was
running the production line and doing all our social media. Wow,

(06:27):
that was nuts, super fun. I happened to stumble across
app Terra on a LinkedIn post, like a like LinkedIn
job post. They're looking for a social media manager. Yeah,
like that is so cool. I looked into it. I
got a reservation right away before I even had a
you know, job interview or anything like. This is neat

(06:50):
and I felt like it.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
When was that? Was that twenty nineteen or twenty twenty
when you put the reservation in.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
Let's see when I started working there, remember.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Oh Sea, I started.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
Working there February twenty twenty two.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
So oh okay, so it was a little bit later.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Late January. Maybe I got my reservation in, but that
was pretty far behind.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
You'll probably get to jump in a little bit now though,
with the PI built, I'm guessing.

Speaker 2 (07:17):
I mean, I'll just I'll probably borrow one for a while,
you know, which would be great. And we both want
to borrow one for a while.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
I go to say, you can borrow one, I can
borrow one, we can trade, we can share. That must
have been a big move, though, to go from Vermont
all the way to Carlsbad.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, well so so, Kamma. When I moved from Vermont
kamma AI is in San Diego. So that's how I
came out.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Oh gotcha place.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
So I was local as at that point, you know,
but I moved during peak COVID. It was super strange
to move. There's no one on the roads when we moved.
Totally the right call. Like we graduated Me and my
wife graduated college remotely in our apartment in Sandy where
you just like watch a video or your name like.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, man, Yeah that was a weird. It was weird
time for sure, But.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
I liked it for me because I got to like
things slowly opened up or like you know, so I
was like it was a whole new place. That had
really never been to California before except visiting for a
conference for like a few days.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
That was it. So gotcha.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
I was like, oh, we can go to a restaurant
or like, oh, let's check out well or you know.
So we ended up getting yeah, integrated and liked it.
But yeah, that's how I made the move. I was
just happened to be local. I was looking for a
job at some point saw Aptera was like, what the heck,
that's amazing. Ended up going through the process and they
were like, whoa, You're like well overqualified what we were

(08:43):
looking for. So they made like a custom job offer
from me with like content specialists. And then I was like,
I'm here so I didn't even have to move. You
go amazing, Like I've lived in the same apartment.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
That's incredible. You got to transition easily, So obviously you've
been doing great job. I think I just want to
credit you for a minute and sing your praises because
there's a lot of different EV startups out there, and
I would be shocked if I could find any other
EV startup that's as transparent as Aptera is about every

(09:15):
stage of development, what the shortcomings are, what the great
things are, what's looking good, and what needs work. And
you guys, just with the monthly update series, you just
don't see it in the industry, Like hardly anybody is
that transparent about like here's I mean, who the heck
knows what the HVAC system comes from in any other car,

(09:37):
but in the app Terra. That's part of the reason
I'm so excited about it, Like getting to drive it around,
we'd be able to say, like I know where this
came from, I know about this I know what it
looks like, I know underneath, I know how it was made.
Instead like such an educational experience, even if someone's not
going to actually buy one. There's just so much to
learn about the you know, workings of a company that

(09:57):
you've really opened up and kept a very very open
channel for communication with. So thank you for your modern
approach towards running a start.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's a group effort, you know. Quincy and Oudre are great,
and Audre has been building our team with Sony and
Will now so we have a great marketing team, all
of us doing our own things. But as the head
of content, I really want it to be engineering forward
and yes, accurate and amazing and I mean we're we're
doing the coolest stuff I think in the world, so

(10:30):
we ought to share it with people. You know, absolutely,
he's as cool as the end product.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I think. I agree. Well, sometimes, what my friend would say,
you always go, oh man, when the stuff comes out,
that's when it's not as fun. It's always the next thing.
It's always the development. That's kind of the exciting state.
Once it's out, it'll be fun and we'll drive it around.
But then we'll go, okay, what about the next thing
that we'll be talking about the next thing and the
next thing. So yeah, there's definitely good that comes from

(10:58):
both the journey and the destination. But I'm sure it's challenging,
especially your position being ahead of everything, having to want
to share everything, but also you've got supplier contracts and
I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff you're not allowed
to share. I know that this most recent announcement with
the powertrain was in development for a long time. Like,

(11:20):
can I ask how long you've kind of known about
this big switch.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Yeah, I don't know the exact length. It's over six months,
maybe closer to the year that we were integrating the
EMR three and seeing it would fit, making sure the
frame was accurate for that doing crash simulations with the
EMR three in simulation, there was a ton of stuff
that was going on behind the scenes for a while,
kind of in parallel.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yeah, gotcha, because I think that, Yeah, I think I
think so too. Not to not to give too much away,
but I remember interviewing Chris when the Chris Anthony when
the bank first arrived and there was some stuff being discussed,
I think powertrain wise, and you were like, well, we'll

(12:06):
share that eventually. Now is not the right time, but
it was like that was back in I want to say,
November December. That was a while ago, and I know
that there was already some discussion going on on, you know,
a change up, but it's fun to finally have it
out in the open so that everybody can know what
the fight aspects are going to be.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Like, I'm thrilled and I was losing sleep over the
announcement just because I want everyone to be happy. I
love our community so much and we're as transparent as
we can possibly be. So the second I got approval
from the TESCO, basically lined up Steve to be filmed
like the next day and like film the podcast. At
it all out as soon as we could. So you know,

(12:46):
I've always had I wanted it to sound how I
wanted the announcement to happen, but it was just the
green lights, so we just did it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Nice, Yeah, I appreciate that because I can understand that
the supplier might I mean, I honestly don't get it,
but because they're an established supplier, they probably have a
more traditional way of handling announcements. So you guys are
all forward thinking and all modern with how keeping your
community up to date. But they're like, hold on, we're
going to make sure everything's all inked and ready to go, so.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Right, and the supply agreement seem to be far enough
along for a company like that for us to be
able to say that we're using them right. So even
though we've had a few it's the whole different story
to be like, yeah, we know we're gonna need this
motor for years and years. So that's a lot of
what was still being worked on in the last year
at safe.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
I got you. Yeah, And as much as I love
the avtear community, I will say kind of what Steve
Fambro brought up in your new announced podcast. If you
guys haven't caught that one yet, go check it out
the three wheel but three Wheel Bucket. They're they're just
getting into this as well. So I'm sharpening up Chris's

(13:55):
podcasting skills today. Yes, but your guys' community is so
well knowledged about automotive industry more than most like everyone,
like whether it be Steve from AFTAH Owner's Club or
anybody in his comment section, like they dive into all
the nitty gritty details when it comes to the Newton

(14:17):
meters of Torque and they look up the suppliers and
they go through all the presentations. So I think it's
kind of a moving target. Likes it's easy to play
someone like me, probably because I see lots of different
startups that are not very transparent about everything. But you
guys kind of give an inch in the community wants
to take Like what about this? Did you guys think

(14:38):
about this? Why don't they talk more about this? And
I'm like, man, can we take a step back for
a second and just be thankful that they're actually communicating
at all, Like you're you're straight up as the update
videos drop, You're in the discord servers answering people's questions.
I'm like, this just never happens. You're like real time
in there answering everyone's concern and like this is this

(15:01):
is rare.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, it's a fun. It's a fun day when the
update comes out, So always I get pretty stressed and
anxious about it because I'm like, really hope it goes
over well, and I'm usually editing it for days and days,
so like I'm like, ah, please please be good, you know,
but right, like I hope I didn't like miss a
clip or I didn't in the render, like it didn't
go to like offline media, offline or whatever you've seen

(15:23):
that happen before premiere.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
So it's like, yeah, that's all good. Right, Well, it's
a good answer about the motor development and how long
it's been going on, because I think a lot of
the community's gut reaction was just, oh, this is a
last second change. If they're changing things up right now,
isn't that going to delay production? But sounds like it's
more the opposite from what I'm hearing.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, it's been in the works for a long time,
and I mean it's driving around downstairs like on a
bench waiting for yeah, Raymond chassis, and I think it's
going to be amazing. I'm really excited to drive around
in that. I think the driving toynamics are going to
be excellent.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
So me too, Me too. Yeah, I think there were
a lot of concerns about outward mounted hub motors in
the first place, and those kind of all go away
now with this new centrally mounted position. I know some
people were curious about zero to sixty times, which I
believe you've said you'll you'll validate once you have p

(16:22):
I two all rigged up.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
And yeah, we had more data on the on the
previous a Lafe hub motors, you know, because we were
using them for so long, and they will be able
to test them. But we'll be able to track test
PI too really soon here, and then we'll be able
to update those numbers with the kind of the production numbers,
like the final numbers. So yeah, people need to understand.

(16:45):
And what is really exciting for me right now is
everything on the website up until now has been you know,
what we assume, what we have tested in computer simulations
or formulas. They're like really good estimates on what the
vehicle will be. But we will be able to confidently
say the vehicle gets this much range, the vehicles this efficient,
the vehicle gets this much solar charging, because we're building

(17:07):
the PI vehicles. So you can't do that until you
have every single piece as a production piece, you know.
As an example, if you did that on Gamma, well
it's made with an entirely different body structure, so that's
not even not even close. And you an now it's
maybe of the different drive train and it doesn't have
the full battery blah, blah blah blah blah. You really
need the whole set of production intent parts to be

(17:32):
able to rally with numbers. So it's interesting because in
a normal company like automotive company, you wouldn't have heard
from us until we were we were done right, So
you just immediately hear the final specs and be like, ah, yes,
the car has already been validated, which is the coolest part,
but it's also the scariest part. Is like, there's changes

(17:54):
that happen throughout the course of development, and we just
need to be as transparent talk about them as soon
as possible. And I I think generally every change we've
made is for the better, at least I agree, especially
most so efficiency to market, which I think we can
all agree is the most important thing We've got to
get these huppies on the road.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
Absolutely, no, for sure, And I'm curious about the testing process,
especially with p I two. Like you said, the p
I two will be able to do range testing and
efficiency testing, but I believe you said that it p
I two might be missing some cosmetic things. Is it
able to maintain like externally, I imagine it'll be pretty close

(18:38):
to what the end product ends up being so like,
what differences are you okay leaving out from p I
two that don't affect things like the range or efficiency.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
So p I two starts as like a beta looking
vehicle where it will basically just be the bank on
a chassis, the bank you've seen for p I one.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah, Eventually we'll get the A surface parts and we'll
probably just put them on p I one and PI
or sorry, p I two and p I three and
p I four, like we'll get sets. I guess we
can't confidently say which one does the range testing, but
it will have to be one that has all the
A surfaces on it. So I think it's very likely

(19:18):
that p I two will be out of state where
it can be range tested. We put on the A
extra your A surface panels, and we just do it.
I think that's that's a likely scenario because that'll probably
be the furthest vehicle along the other two lagging until
p I three surpasses. P I Two's intent with p
I two is just for track testing and stuff like
we're not going to be testing the air conditioning and

(19:39):
in p I two as an example, or like gotcha
rolling the white or blade or anything that's all p
I three and PI four stuff.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
Cool. Oh that those are going to make for some
really really good update videos. I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Awesome.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
I think it was I think it was Steve from
abto Owners Club who kind of found that US Capital
slide deck that everybody loved to rip into. I'm not
sure if that was meant.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
To go public, but I think we had the assumption
that it would. But it really is for investors who
want to invest and participate in that round, but super
easy just put in your email and see it, so
it's it's public basically.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah, well, thank thanks for letting us take a look
at it again. With the transparency, there's there's a lot
of information that it's fun to dive into there. But
one thing that was kind of interesting to me about
kind of the I know, other estimates, but the cost
of all the individual parts kind of the breakdown of
where the money goes, is that the Aptura is so lightweight,

(20:36):
so efficient that it's kind of reaching a point where
it looks like the battery pack isn't the most expensive
part anymore, which is.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
The case, Yeah, battery is so small, Yeah, the case
usually it is the most expensive component, right, But we
have a lot of other innovation going on in the
ap Terra. So even just the being you know, ten
parts versus two hundred parts in a normal vehicle, its

(21:06):
orders of magnitude easier to make. But it's also not
the cheapest thing in the world, but it's it's the
right thing for a lightweight solar.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Ev so, right, And I think correct me if I'm wrong,
but I think there's some context added there too that
like having the bank instead of having a traditional automotive
plant that stamps out pieces that need to be painted
and all that. It's like, well, it may account for
a large chunk of the bill of materials. Now you
you couldn't necessarily lower that with a traditional automotive body.

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Yeah, there's just a lot of costs that you don't
see that because they don't exist in our vehicle.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
Right.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
So like like right, shop is one of those. We
eliminated ninety eight percent of the paint process, so that's massive.
That is usually a paint shop is at least like
a five hundred million to a billion dollar endeavor. So
like that's more than Naptes raised and will raise to
reach for.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
So it's just it's kind of night and day. But
it is interesting though to think about like a vehicle
that's now so efficient that there's other things that are
kind of eating into the total cost. Or it just
makes me wonder, like do you think that down the
road with doing lower range options, like would that not

(22:21):
really affect the overall price as much now? Or do
you think that the battery pack has the most room
for flexibility on price in the future.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's a good question. My personal thought would be that
it it has the most ability to switch up pricing.
I don't know, okay, if we're gonna like, in my
personal opinion, it'd be cool if there's an app cara
that was like one hundred and fifty miles for like
that was you know, pretty cheap for like a college
kid or something where they just start only going around town.

(22:51):
You still get the solar charging. I don't even know
if if it needs to be more than that. You know,
agreed for everything, so there's room for for that. I
know Tim's excited about some LFP and other cool Oh.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Yeah, yeah, And I've seen a lot of people float
sodium ion around. I know that it's probably not got
the cycle life everyone's hoping for but it was like, man,
if it gets small enough and cheap enough, maybe it's okay.
It's just swapping out, it'll be sorry.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Yeah, I think it's neat that I can pick up
one of the modules. I mean they're heavy, for sure,
but like I can actually hold a module and there's
only six of them in Aptera and I can. I
can hold it physically. It's not too heavy for me
to pick up, which is I don't know. It feels
kind of neat everything in Aptera, like the doors I
can pick up. It's just kind of neat to be
able to pick up. It's also me.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
And Chris A picked up the whole bank when I
was there. How many vehicles could you do that with?
Maybe that's another headlining feature for repair abilities. You could
say every part of the app Era can be lifted
by hand.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Except the Tesco EMR three that's on like a wind
to pick up that things.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Hut, there's some people. Could you gotta you gotta train
a little bit, but that's okay, Yeah, you gotta prep
a little bit. But yeah, you said, I think in
the discord you mentioned that the em R three is
still technically lighter than having all three hub motors.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, I think if we factor in the coolant lines,
the high voltage cabling, remotors, and three inverters, this is
overall a lighter weight solution for us. Yeah, so it's
the ballpark. But that's why it's so hard to It's
not just like, oh, there's drive shafts. I bet the
arrow is bad. It's like, oh, well, it weighs less,

(24:41):
and the arrow has been optimized and this and that
and this and that, Like it has a wildly different
effect on efficiency. So it's a good fun to test.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Oh sure, Yeah, I can't wait to see it, and
especially how how it moves, I think because all wheel
drive is just I think a lot of people are
kind of obsessed with it for traction control, and I've
just been kind of trying to tell as many people
as I can, like there's a lot of front wheel
drive vehicles in the snow every year, Like they get

(25:15):
snow tires, they get chains, Like it's not the end
of the world to not have all wheel drive. But
would you are you anticipating Maybe it's too early to say,
but are you anticipating it'll be faster than the website's
current zero to sixty times.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, and we talk a little bit about it in
the in the third Wheel podcasts, so plug yeah, but
like this motor is very powerful. It'll have enough power
to spin the tires. So now the problem is, like
how do you get you know, the most traction tires
or I think if you like the surface and like

(25:52):
got really good racing tires, you could sure insane acceleration.
But I don't know what it would be on a
normal street tire. It'll sure likely be I mean definitely
less than six. It's just a very fast out so
we need to need to do the testing. But I
don't think it'll feel slow whatsoever at all. Even the
two wheel you know, like our alpha vehicles, a lot

(26:15):
of them are front wheel drive, those things rip I
was just ripping Luna around today and it's a nice
you don't You can't like tell the difference honestly from
the two to the three wheel drive, at least in
my personal opinion driving all the prototypes, like they feel
equally zippy and torky and all that. So I think
it's gonna be a vehicle. We're not losing the soul

(26:37):
of the fun of Aftara at all.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
I think it's gonna be awesome. I'm glad to hear that.
That's wonderful, and I think a lot of people are excited,
but a lot of people are somewhat scared just because
they've they've reserved other vehicles in the past and had
the prices go way up. And I know that there's
been a lot of inflation and that kind of thing.
But I was curious with your guys' kind of current

(27:02):
financial model of the break even point being around six
thousand units. Is it feasible that like, maybe short term
the price is the price is a bit lower, a
bit more reasonable, and that maybe pushes out your break
even point, or is it kind of like, you know,
you can't afford to take on too much debt or

(27:23):
the vehicle can't afford a gross margin to dip below
too far a point.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Yeah, it's a very nuanced thing, because someone like Rivian
has billions in the bank, they can very like you
were saying, they can very easily subsidized vehicles. We want
to make sure that we can turn a profit as
quickly as possible in a way that obviously keeps customers happy.
Everyone feels like they're getting a great value, But aftera
doesn't just immediately go out of business and disappear with that.

(27:49):
No one will want that, no extremely nuanced thing. Yeah,
I mean the prices continue to go down, and supply
chain team is working on you know, as we as
we get closer and closer as we can pay suppliers,
we can renegotiate a lot of these quotes are base
quotes from a bit ago, right because or their low

(28:11):
volume quotes, or they're just quotes for a couple of
hundred or whatever we'd like. It's a lot of work
on the supply chain side to really lock down pricing.
So I think that's why it's going to take a bit.
But generally I feel like the price that we launched
with plus inflation kind of gives a good idea of
I think what it'll probably launch around. That would be
my estimate, because that's what we've always said is it's

(28:33):
just kind of like what we talked about plus inflation
the last few years. It's pretty close. But obviously we
want to be as affordable as it can without upsetting anybody, right.
We want it to be the great affordable TV that
we all want, so pushing that, pushing to make it
as low as it can. Yeah, I think transparent with

(28:54):
the costs will be like listen, cost as much to
make we need to make this much money, or at
para won't exist. That's why it's the price. It is
everybody harder to announce it.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Honestly, I would love that, honestly, even if it's higher
than people like, I think the transparency would go a
long way of just like do you want an app
Terra or not? Like this isn't going to work if
we price it too low. So yeah, I think that
goes a long way.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yeah. The interesting thing too with our community is we
have so many orders, you know, forty eight thousand orders.
I think one that will skyrocket too. The price and
the options people will get in the twenty thousand and
thirty thousand and forty thousand delivery is going to be
vastly different than the launch edition. So though we are
only talking about a launch edition on all our social
media and publicly because that's what we're launching. I mean,

(29:39):
if you're like twenty thousand in line, you know we'll
probably have all even that price, the price miking way lower.
Like there's so much that could change before you know,
the first deliveries and when you get your app Terra.
So that's something to keep in mind. It's what makes
it tough to make decisions or make announcements. I don't
want to piss off someone who's thirty thousand, because, like

(30:01):
you know, they'll have everything in the world right or right,
a different world once we hit the thirty thousand tear.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Us Sure, So, is it fair to say kind of
similar to Tesla's model, you expect that the price might fluctuate.
It could fluctuate more than once within like a month.

Speaker 2 (30:17):
It could, Yeah, it could. I feel like that's a
good model. Personally. I think we'll have a launch price
for quite a bit, at least for the first couple
thousand or five thousand units. But gotcha, once we once
we start understanding the market more and like the levers,
we can pull left to see what that entails.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
Yeah, do you feel like they do it well?

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Like, do you like how Tesla does it? Or I
feel like they do it a little too much.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
I kind of I kind of looked at it as
like the dealership model with the haggling built in. Yeah,
it does the haggling for you.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
I hate like how they're like, you know, there's like
a seven percent APR one one day, then like you
buy it that day. The next day it's like a
zero percent pr.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Yeah, the Model three I have, I paid a lot
more than what it's currently cost and the new one
is a lot better than mine, that's for sure. But
at the same time, I try to remind people like, hey,
if if they jacked up the prices the next day,
you wouldn't you wouldn't be considering them coming back and saying, hey,

(31:22):
I know we sold it to you for a really
low price, but the week after you paid for it,
we actually raised the prices, so can we get some
more money? Like no, no one considers that. But as
soon as it goes down, they expect, oh, Tesla should
refund me. And I'm like, eh, this is come on.
It's like it's a business. It's a two way street.
If there's a price you're not comfortable with, don't buy
the thing. If you're comfortable with it at that point

(31:44):
in time, that's that, you know, just don't overthink it.
You didn't know what you didn't know, So.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
I got your vehicle earlier, right, So like if you
waited for the latest Model three at the latest pricing
or whatever, you wouldn't have a tesla for over long
you've had one.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Rate so true, we've been paying for gas all that time.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
I save so much money on that.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
Me too, Me too, I spend it all on flat tires.
But I didn't go to the gas bump, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Well.

Speaker 1 (32:17):
I appreciate the transparency and the honesty there. I think.
I think the pricing is always going to be a
difficult discussion, frankly, like everybody wants it to be as
cheap as possible. Everyone wants a free one, I'm sure,
so you're you're never going to please everyone unless you're like, oh,
it's half off, surprised. But I think as far as

(32:37):
you know affordability goes, it's important to keep in mind,
and you can bring this up to them as well,
that like most startups have to kind of start with
the more high price items, and relative to the trims
you guys have talked about offering, this is really not
that high price, especially compared to the first Lucids or
the first Rivians or the first fish Erosians or any

(33:01):
of those. They always started in the like eighty ninety
one hundred thousand dollars realm, which is why. The community's
reaction with Aptera was always kind of surprising to me
because I was like, they're starting with a you know,
probably sub forty thousand dollars vehicle, and we're like, oh,
that's too much. Look at everybody else.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
So it is a wild environment out there for evs
right now. I'm super impressed with Chris and Steve for
weathering the storm of the past few years of the
stock markets, in the in the antiev and everything.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
I mean, we're it's been a lot.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
We've we've come out, you know, with a finished design
building them right now. I mean, it's it's really exciting
because it in any startup you have ups and downs.
I think it was it was scary for a while,
you know, just seeing everyone's going out of business and
other companies is not doing the best. But it's all
about money management, being as efficient with your money as
you can too. I think a lot of startups aren't

(34:00):
as efficient with money, or they scale back too late
or whatever. Uptura is like, true, very very good at that.
So it's been it's been fun. We've been hiring a
lot of new people in the firmware team lately. It's
been fun to meet a lot of new Aptera Oh really, yeah, yeah,
I was.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
I was gonna pick your brain if that answer has changed.
I've asked it in the past, But like, what how
many units into production do you think you need to
deliver before things like CarPlay and Android Auto will be
like on by default.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
That's a great question. It's going to depend on that.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I don't know fair enough. The complex question.

Speaker 2 (34:40):
Very complex, but I think that's our goal is to
launch with those as soon as possible. I think they're
they're gonna be awesome and cool defining feature, but at
the beginning it'll still be nice. You'll have Bluetooth, you
have actually a place to put your phone, which like
most cars don't have like a nice Oh good, I'm
a dash where your phone sits.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
They're gonna be a charger or something.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
That's a good question I got to ask Jason. I
think we were there's gonna be a wireless charger or not.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
I was gonna say the Aptera away might be not
to have one, because that's the most efficient, Like it
just makes your phone hot anyway, right, you can bring
it back.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
It's charging in the car, you know, because they'll have
it in the sun.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Like no, considering the Aptur is like the most efficient
vehicle ever. That technically means that charging your phone in
it would be it would have the highest possible range
hit of it. Yeah, phone charger a minimal amount, but yeah,
maybe maybe it'll go the other way. Can I power
the Aptura with my phone? It'll take the juice if.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
You're sitting, if you're sitting parked, the solar has to
output more than way more than your phone. Oh yeah,
the infinite phone charge for free.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
There you go. I'm already with my current driving, like
pretty much all the driving I've done in the last week,
I've never needed more than two seats, So I'm already
like doing the math. I'm curious of what your percentage is,
Like what percent of your driving could be covered by
the app Tura when you get yours?

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Man, I think like ninety five percent at least. The
only possible time is like if my parents come visit,
or someone from out of time comes visit, and like
me and my wife pick them up at the airport
and we drive him around. That's like a week occurrence,
like you know, out of the year, a couple of weeks. Sure,
literally every other time it's just me and her, or

(36:31):
me mostly just me and I do have a lot
of junk in the back all the time, like boxes
and camera equipment and lights and you know what, sure
it's right now. It's like half of it's in the
back seat and half of it's in the trunk. I'd
rather just have one big trunk, I think.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
So I do too, especially when I could access without
getting up. That's that's come up a lot with our
driving is like, oh it's in the trunk, I have
to get out of the car, go all the way
to the back, pop the trunk, then reach it. I
was like, if it was in an Aptera, I could
just grab it right here.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
I know. That's cool. I guess the Uptair is technically
a hatchback, right I guess.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
I guess so when you think about it, I mean,
it doesn't really fit into the traditional definition of like
here's what people picture, but it is the back and
it is a hatch. So certain demographics where I think
the Aptara will be perfect because it's a it's a
two seater, and by many highways definition, that is a
high occupancy vehicle because on many roads today you only

(37:30):
need two people to go in the HOV lane, So
that to me is a big indication of how many
people are typically on vehicles on the road today, which
is why I don't see it being a I don't
see it as being a two seater being a huge limitter,
because like you said, it's a one week within a

(37:51):
year that you have to pick someone up and have
that many people in the car. That's true, But a
lot of.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
The lane is like pretty empty, right like it? That
kind of is a live stat when you're driving down
the five or something exactly.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
And I've done a lot more driving now with my
new job, and how often I see that HOV lane
wide open and people can't go in there because they
only have one person in the car. I'm like, yeah,
with one person it qualifies for the HOV anyway, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I mean, yeah, cycle, yeah, right, the motorcycles see just
go right in. Yeah, are going to like pull for
I got teara owners over at first, who we are
in the whole lane by themselves? And I'll be like,
what do you do a motorcycle?

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Brother? I think you're right. I really liked your personal
idea as you deemed it, because I think a lot
of the overlap for the app Terra is going to
be as a commuter vehicle. Like a lot of people
just need something really efficient, affordable that can get them
to working back, in which case, yeah, you're right, kind
of seeing how small a battery pack you can get

(38:59):
away would be quite fascinating because most of the evs
on the road we're looking at sixty eighty one hundred
plus kilo what hours, So to have one that could still,
you know, get you to working back and maybe exceed
one hundred miles of range with like a ten fifteen
kilo one hour battery pack, that would be pretty nuts

(39:20):
in terms of efficiency.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
The lightest weight one too, man, I think would be
a feather.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
It would be you could probably push that thing the
final couple miles if you needed to. Yeah, as far
as the roadmap goes, I believe you said. The plan
is still to start with the four hundred mile variant
and then the cheaper option is next. Is that as

(39:51):
simple as I think it is of just like taking
out a few modules or is there a little bit
more rearranging of the pack.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
For that jump. Yeah, from the four hundred to a
lower mileage vehicle. Yeah, it would just be taking out
some modules leaving them blank. Maybe some slight suspension tunes,
but that's like the easiest that's the easiest variant I've
ever I can ever think of. It's gonna be great stuff,
you know, and then you're you're good.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I think the bigger packs have some slight modifications to
the lower a surface near the near the tub, near
the belly. If there's taller cells, that just will slightly
be different shaped, but not for the for the less
range yet.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
This might be a question for someone else, But do
you know if those larger those taller cells, are they
in production at all right now? Or is there are
those still kind of out out there.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
It's a good question. I'm not sure. I heard we
were going to get samples of them at some point soon,
so they must be at least in some form of
production from some sport.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Cool but soon samples.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Soon, samples we get the I probably won't talk about
them because it's it's far off, you know.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
Fair enough. Yeah, but the fact that samples are even
mentioned is probably an indication someone's making them somewhere, but
probably not quite in high volume yet. But like we said,
I wouldn't be shocked if the you know, I drive
the lowest range Tesla, and I've road tripped that thing.
I put fifty thousand miles on it in less than

(41:24):
two years. And as long as you've gotten AX, which
you guys have had since the beginning, you don't need
a ton of range honestly, Like most people can't go
that long anyway, which is why I do question, like
what the long term demand is going to be like
for the big battery, like thousand mile, Like that's going

(41:45):
to be a very specific type of driver.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, wouldn't it. That is interesting? Yeah, I don't know.
I had this thought, but I keep thinking about this
and I wanted to bring it up. I'm super excited
that there's no more major changes that are yet to
be announced, Like we're we're just pushing ahead with p
I builds and what you see is what you get

(42:08):
just for insanity. That's really great because I want to
I don't want to. I'm really glad to need to
talk about or you know, to tell people about and
be trying to get it to happen. So we're we're
past that stage, which is really exciting.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Awesome. Yeah, that's a lot more things being locked down
and there's not being any some kind of big change
up at the last second. I think that makes a
lot of people, uh feel better. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
I just I keep thinking about that in my head
because I was I was losing sleep over it because
I wanted to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
You know, I'm sure we're all I would be cute. Yeah.
I keep telling people, there's there's no one more excited
or more impatient about these things than you guys, because
you're you're eating, sleeping, breathing up Terrell all day every day,
so these things are on your mind constantly.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I the p I build is going to be able
to do a supercharger testing.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Good question.

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Technically, yes, hmmm, yeah, that'll be really interesting to see.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
You need to coordinate with Tesla. Basically we were you know,
we need to be at a certain stage where we
can test with that stuff and then we can we
can engage with Tesla again. So that's the gate is
on us right now to have a fast charge you see,
fast charged vehicle ready to test. So that probably I'll
be p I three that can that can do that.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Yeah, because I was going to say, my first plan
is to talk to you guys into loading me one
of those PI builds. For a week or two. The
second part of the plan is how do I get
it back. I'll come down there to pick it up,
but it would be better if it had supercharger access.
They could probably do it off of a charge point
or EA station, but I like to avoid them if

(44:00):
I if I can help it.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
That's fair. I mean we've we've already, uh you know,
we've charged Gamma destination chargers a lot. You know, so
oh that really that works because that's totally yeah, there's
no authentication in a Tesla destination charge. It's a little
too pluged. So that for an event once and we're like, oh,
we got a charge for a bit we just did.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
WHOA, I didn't even know you could do.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
That's worst case. Even p I two, you can destination charge,
no problem. There's a lot of those too.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah. No, they're especially in California. They're kind of flooded
the place with them. It might be too soon to ask,
so feel free to say I can't answer. But as
far as uh next steps, after you know, mass production
of the launch edition you start delivering more models is
as the marketing guy, do you think there's a proper

(44:51):
time uh with where the company's at before unveiling or
talking about maybe future models with more seats or do
you think, uh, yeah, it was just that's what me
and Jason were talking about last time. So that's that's cool.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
My brain is so in the three wheel brain that
I can't even imagine us not being in that in
that zone.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
So that's the right answer.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
That's like, that's a mind warp. That's gonna be nice.
I'm excited for that. I'm I'm more excited for people
to be driving these things.

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yeah, me too. Yeah, that that's the priority. Absolutely, I understand.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
That's wild. Wow, there will be a time where we're
talking about other stuff. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
You're just so focused on this one. It's like, oh yeah,
I guess there might be more. I just know a
lot of people are gonna love the first one. That's
where my head's at is like, it's it's a new brand,
it's a new company, and I think you've got good,
good roots, a good foundation that you're laying here with
the transparency, so everyone's gonna keep like, keep asking what's

(46:00):
even after deliveries begin, and there's probably gonna be a
lot of people that are like, I love my Apptara,
but I want something that can move my whole family too,
so that'll be weird. It's a tricky debate we talk
about on this podcast quite often of like when do
you share versus when do you You want to avoid osborneing

(46:21):
so you can't you can't share too early. Some companies
do it like two years before they think they can deliver.
Some do it in one year, Some do it like
three months before. I didn't know if you had a
preference in your experience, but that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I mean, I feel like the monthly updates are going
to be super lame once we're just delivering vehicles, Like
maybe that that part phases away, I guess, and then
there's more like I really always liked there. There were
some Tesla stories back in the day where like, hmmm,
it'd be like someone talking about their experience with their Tesla,
like Tesla would fly out and film it like at
their house. I feel like that stuff I really want

(47:00):
to do once there's customer deliveries is like, how does
this affect your life? Because like solar charging is so
hard to talk about, people don't understand it. I think
if you have all these your world stories around the
US or the globe, like it's gonna help new people
understand it. So I feel like that's where things might
start to go content wise, after we are just cranking

(47:21):
them out, you know, probably don't totally do as much
on the process anymore because it's been it's been done.
So that'll be interesting.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah, No, that'll be That'll be a great idea, I think,
because then seeing the real world data probably brings in
a whole other wave of orders. You guys have already
racked in a bunch just from the concept of it,
but once owners and real people are driving it around,
that changes a lot for sure. Yeah. But is there
anything as as you know, I've I've kind of followed

(47:53):
in your footsteps. I'm now trying to help out with
Tello and their social media team. Is there advice or
things I should learn, things I should avoid from your experience.
You're kind of the guru here.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
Well, you're doing a great job. I love I love you.
You're really doing a great job. Yeah we can. We
can talk about cameras and like, oh, yeah, you ever want,
But I do like I feel like your feels even
more raw, which is exciting. It is a smaller company
and it's it's at your stage.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
So I like that a lot.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
If you watch like the videos i'd make with Comma,
we would do like live streams or we just walk around.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
I'd like talk.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
To you know, the people in the different rooms and
like hey, what are you doing? And like I feel
like that stuff's super engaging at that stage, even at
at tura stage, it seems like that las Yeah, pretty well,
so that's exciting.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, I keep it. I really like, okay.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
The same.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah, it's getting a little spooky, isn't it. That's too bad.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
It's too bad.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
But yeah, I just keep thinking about something we're probably
neither of us are very ready for. But probably my
biggest concern for my uptura is the amount of attention
it's going to draw, because I am really not a
big attention seeker. Like I drove my friends cybertruck out
in Arizona, and just just the fifteen minutes we were

(49:20):
doing that, it was already getting a little bit annoying.
It was like, I can't imagine owning this for months
and months at a time, Like everywhere you go, like
are you prepared to like carry business cards with you
or are you gonna put a QR code on the
side or what you definitely.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Want, Like I'll keep like a pack of stickers because
that's I think the easiest, and I'm just like here
you go. But I'm generally kind of introverted most of
the time at Aptera, I appear extroverted, So I'll have Yeah,
like in my car, I'm like, I'm just driving around
like this, like you know, I'm just a distance, like

(49:58):
on open pilot, doing nothing, you know. So yeah, yeah
at all. Yeah, that'll be that'll be weird. It is
weird when I take the prototypes out. I like, i
feel like I'm in Apterra mode the whole time. I'm
ready though, it's.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Gonna be Yeah, it's probably gonna be hard to switch
from like Okay, I'm only in the Aptura when I'm
working to now I'm in Aptera for just day to
day stuff. Now it's like I'm always working. I'll probably
feel similarly.

Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, that'll be cool. I mean, uh, that's gonna be
a lot of fun. Audrey and I keep talking about
once there's a PI vehicle that you know, marketing gets
to use for whatever we want. Well, I feel like
we should do a road trip where it's just like
me and her, or like me and Quincy or something,
just with like a tent in the back and some
stickers and hats and we just drive to like different

(50:47):
people's houses around the US and like set up pop
up events. I mean, the most part of the idea ever.
But I feel like it's super cute and like wholesome,
you know, absolutely. And there's like someone's trapping ap terror
across the US. They're spotting on X Like I'd be nuts.
It's like sniper truck sightings, you know, right.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
No, it really gets people talking, which is kind of
the exciting thing about it. You can come up here
as well, and then I can I can join your house.
Lots of sun especially up here, you'll and you'll have
a you know, kind of a destination charger if you

(51:26):
need it. You probably won't because of how sunny it is,
but yeah, I got lots of spaces I can park it. Oh.
I remember there was a there was a question someone
was having about, you know, how the the front wheels
are kind of mounted externally from the main body, like
some people are curious about wanting to avoid you know,

(51:46):
curbing the wheelpant on the right because they will be
sitting on the driver's side, and we were theorizing in
the discord how possible it would be. The cameras probably
won't be able to show it that well, but like,
could you as you're pulling into a place, like pop
the passenger door from the screen to look out because

(52:08):
it goes up or.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Good question, I think in production, so for safety the
doors pop to hear and then you you assist them open,
so someon would have to oh, okay the way, but
it is it is assisted. I think they is going
to be more than enough for those sites.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
You know.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
You guys still have ultrasonic.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
That's in the nose cone so it can see front
and side. So it'll have one have like a cone
of vision for parking and stuff. That's going to be good.
I think on the on the road, I mean, you're
you're probably less likely to hit the curb like when
you're driving, Yeah, because you get used to it. See
uh see a part that's in this rim.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Oh absolutely, oh yeah, audio listeners, you're missing out.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Taking pictures of it already. This is a washer fluid
for that. This is the fluid thing. So it has
got to.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
Be like the only Yeah, the only maintenance on the
Apptura right.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
It has like the motor on the back too, so integrated.
And then it sprays out so.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
That's awesome. Where does it is it? Does it spray
out from the wiper?

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I think there's a there's a nozzle like on the
on the hood. I don't think it's on the wiper. Yeah.
The same supplier that gives us this does the whole
gives us the wiper blade, the you know, obviously the
pump is already built in. It's all. It's the same
supplier the the wiper blade, everything. So that's pretty cool. Yeah,

(53:39):
stuff like this comes in it makes me happy.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Yeah, seeing all the production grade stuff. It's like if
you were just you know, making pretty prototypes for the
sake of impressing people, you wouldn't need stuff like that.
But the fact that that's showing up is a sign like, yeah,
we're gonna need every nutt and bolt here pretty soon.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
So yeah, that's crazy. Some of this stuff was ordered
like six months ago. Some of it was ordered a
couple of months ago. Like the time and the mess
of the supply.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Chain world is nuts to me.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Like, as consumers, you and I are just like oh
it's just Amazon Prime this thing or like this exists
so I can buy it. Like it's not really true
in the Yeah, well you know, sure you gotta sign
there's your agreements.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Right, Yeah, you get it, get used to it. I
know that there's been talk about kind of replicating the
factory you've got there in different places of the world.
Is there a would you have to go to those places?
I assume for content or updates?

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah, someone someone will be big by that point. I
don't know, but I I hope I get to go
to Italy more. And uh, you know, I love going
to the CPC, and as we have more fires around
the world, I hope I can can visit one day.
You know. That's the that's a lot of fun. So yeah,

(55:06):
I think there's a lot of traveling potentially in my future,
which would be cool, me and my wife and there.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
Yeah, Italy would be a cool one for sure. You
think that that would be assembling more like locally for
like the European market. Yeah, I think that makes the
most sense for for the European market, that thereould eventually
be an APTRE factory that near CPC. Maybe's logical.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Yeah, it's a beautiful town. It's so nice. Show me
around is like Avapasta is amazing, you know, it's it's
pretty Italy.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
So wow, man, my mind keeps getting blown a bit,
and honestly, I'm sorry I keep bringing this up, but
the community's reaction to the pricing is still perplexing to
me because I'm like, this is a carbon fiber uh,
super powerful, you know, two hundred horse power, super efficient,
solar charging, radically looking vehicle, and then compare that to

(56:08):
like other two doors on the market, like the Mustang
or a Camaro or a Miata or a Corvette, and
it's like all those are going to cost more than
the appt Era easily, even yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Even the Polaris Slingshot, which I think is super awesome,
super cool. I think it starts to like twenty is
twenty ish thousand, and you can speck it up to
like twenty five thousand, and that has no crash safety.
You know, it's open top, like right, so you.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Can't drive it in the snow or the rain.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
It's like it and nothing. And I'm not dissing it.
I think it's a cool vehicle, but that's like a
hobby where it's like this is a you know, like
a real vehicle that you can drive in the snow
and it has air conditioning and heating and it's enclosed, right,
And I mean just that that price difference isn't that
high from like ohs to an app tear. It's like, whoa, not.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
At all, especially when you factor in that it's it's
fueling itself. The Polaris isn't gonna just pull gasoline out
of that would be cool. But yeah, I think the
efficiency focus resonates with so many people. That's why you've
got such an incredible community and a lot of excitement,
and it's it's kind of feeling more real to me

(57:26):
now that kind of the public investment is somewhat like
it's done now that you're moving over with US capital,
Like oh so, it's like even if even if I
want to jump in now, it's I got to wait
for the I p O Sunday right Sunday. Oh man,
do you know how many UH ticker names were thrown around?

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I think you can put in five to apply for
and then they give you one of those back. It's
something like that. So you give a couple options and
then they tell you which one is available.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
Interesting. I wonder, I wonder what those other ones were too.
They don't tell you.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
Chris knows, Chris knows. I don't know what he put.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
He did.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
It's like a web form. He just like, yeah, symbol,
yeah wow Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Exciting times ahead. It's it's crazy to think that, you know,
for about what the average vehicle costs today, you'll you'll
have a probably you know, zero to sixty and well
under six seconds, four hundred mile range carbon fiber body,
uh airplane looking solar charging thing on the road. Especially

(58:45):
for your first vehicle delivered, that's just kind of unheard
of in the auto space.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
So many fit and finish is all going to be
incredible because CPC's experts at it, like the panel gaps
almost non existent. It's gonna be nuts. It's gonna feel
like we've been making vehicles forever when you, yeah, the
first one, you know, So that's I bet.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
My my advice is to really prototype with the phone
key stuff, because that's that's something that I feel like,
who was it? Fisker did not mess around, did not
test very thoroughly, so a lot of people just couldn't
get into the freaking car, which sounds like a simple thing.
But when it comes up every single time you try

(59:29):
to use it, it gets old fast.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
So that's rough.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
You want to be good and solid and working reliably
before Marquez gets his hand up.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Yeah. Yeah, I think the eventual goal of p I
four is for it to be ready to be taken
and by journalists for or someone like you for like
a week.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Or something like it.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
That's the eventual goal of p I four.

Speaker 1 (59:55):
So say no more. I have it here, folks. He
said it, the I four. Yeah, you can sell all
the accelerator vehicles, but I'll take PI four.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
I'll give you Luna.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
It won't I would take Luna. Yeah, I would take
Gamma at this point. Honestly, Gamma ruined by my Model three,
if I'm being honest. I I was talking with so
many people about why I think blind spot cameras should
be mandatory, like for health reasons, older people can't you

(01:00:30):
turn around very fast and check their blind spot. And
the fact that I've gotten used to on my card
just having the blind spot camera come up whenever I signal.
It's like that's a really safety critical feature. Now Rivian's
adopted it, but I was like, yeah, Tera doesn't even
need to adopt it because they've got the screen constantly
showing your blind spots right behind the yoke, and I

(01:00:50):
was like, that's better. Actually, now you don't even have
to signal to see in your blind spot. So as
soon as I drove Gamma around and it got used
to having the the camera's right there, I got in
my card. I was like, oh day, I have to
keep signaling to see those. Yeah, I do want to
steal Gamma.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I love it so much, but it's gonna it's gonna
be like ten times better in the pis like everything
about it, So that for sure blows my mind all
the time that I see the prototypes get better every
you know, every iteration, and the PI vehicles will just
be next level. Because I would be happy with Gamma

(01:01:29):
like today, no questions asked. Just put a bigger back
too to me, you know, like I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
I was ready to go after you. We both were
in it, that's right, it was you. We were driving
it around and I had that big road trip to
do afterwards. I was like, oh man, I'm ready, I'm
ready to go. Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
So man, thanks for the continued support Drew and the
videos and the podcast is super fun. I really enjoy
listen to it. Sometimes I listen to all your videos too,
So I'm a fan. You're doing great work.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Thank you appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Hopefully I'll come back on sometime when everyone else is
here too, we can all chat.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Yeah, that'd be fun. Well, I hope the next time
we talk it's gonna be down there. That's my hope.
Great catch. Last question I'll ask just to set the
record straight for all the people to ask, are you
paying me to say nice things about you?

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
I would know no, no, no, I wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:25):
A lot of people that think I am, but I'm like, no,
this is just genuine excitement.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
But do not pay you. We don't pay. After our
owners Club, we've done some very very limited things with
certain influencers on Instagram where you can see like it's
a pay for promotion at that, like the Huntington US
Open of Surfing. That's the only time we've ever paid,
so we like Jerry everything, h Rich rebuilds like they're

(01:02:52):
all everyone's legit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
You know you didn't pay them either, Huh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
We didn't pay no, Wow, Yeah, which is good for
reasons as well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
So yeah, that's fair. Understandable. Well, thank you so much,
I won't take any more of your time. Thank you
everybody for listening, and we'll catch you a'll next time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Bye,