Ep. 188 - Is Aptera Undervalued? - Tailosive EV Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Welcome back to the Tailor seif ev podcast. Ladies and Gentleman.
Randy has returned, although he is not the head of
marketing of any evy startup I'm aware of, unless he
has announcements.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I mean, we're all anybody in San Diego, if one person,
we're all one and the same.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
You're representing them today.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm representing them today. Do you feel like uh? Do
you feel like you uh? Well, actually, let me phrase
it like this, how close are you without Tara?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
What made that meme of the two cars that I
like a centimeat apart from each other?

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, I have an ev story. I need to jump
into this really quickly before you even answer that question.
It's no, it's very important. I will forget and then
you can answer. Oh close, okay close. I met a
a talosive e V channel fan in a grocery store

(01:27):
parking lot. What I met a fan of Taos EV.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
How did I'm just saying, like, how did they recognized
you from the podcast? I'm assuming they.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Didn't know who I was, which was the weird cool
part because he was talking about you and I was.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Like this, wait, okay, you gotta walk me through the chain.
Of events here.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah, this was like, I need to tell you this
from the offset. Ok, I went to a grocery store.
He actually may very well be watching or listening to
this podcast, because I put him onto the podcast. Now,
so Steve, I remember your name, Steve. Hi, Steve, shout

(02:17):
out Steve. I go to the grocery store and I'm
driving the Performance Model Why and uh I I just
park in the back. I don't even try to go
up front or nothing. I just like, I'm not dealing
with all that. I just park in the back and
I'll just walk up when I When I park, I

(02:41):
get out of the car. There's this guy he's loading up.
I saw a Tesla just across the driveway from me,
but I wasn't paying much mine of it. But I
hear it's not too often you see Performance Model whys
around here. And I look up and I'm like, and
I noticed he has the exact same color and and

(03:04):
he actually has the exact same year. He has the
exact same everything I have with the model. Why he
got his last year And I was like, oh dang.
And because the first thing I look for is the
red you know, the red breaks. And I'm like oh.
I was like, hey, we're a club within a club.
He goes, oh, yeah, absolutely, and uh he asked me

(03:24):
a question and you.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Ever seen.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
No. He's like, yeah, we're a club within a club.
There's this guy Tlosef and uh he goes, well, I
call him Drew.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
No, how did it actually unfold?

Speaker 2 (03:44):
So we start we get talking. I approached him because
I'm like, hey, you know, I was like, oh, yeah,
we have the exact same because he asked me something
along the lines of I think maybe how old my
car I don't remember. We very quickly established we have
the exact same I think he to the month.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
We have the exactly cards are interchangeable.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, we're basically like siblings now and uh so we're
talking about EV's and and very quickly just how we
were talking because he he had said words where I
was like, oh, this guy actually knows the the EV space.
He knows the communities, and he knows the space because
he's saying words like uh uh. He's like, I'm waiting

(04:29):
for Junifer the Juniper the Jennifer refreshed about He's like,
I feel like I bought my car too soon. Now
I'm kicking myself and I was trying to give a
piece of my was like, buy when you're ready, because
you will always be behind regardless. And so we just
start talking. But he's saying things from like like oh
so you actually like you're about this. He's like, oh,

(04:51):
I'm a big Tesla guy. I bought, I sold an
older model, why for the one I have now? And
now I'm thinking about something this one to get the
Juniper refresh. I'm mad how how cheap they've gotten, but
it is what it is. And he was He's like,
I'm in all the forums communities talking. You know, he's

(05:13):
big Tesla stock guy too. And I was like, whoa, Okay.
So he was saying all the things and then uh
I had metric because then he was like he said,
he says something along the lines of here's here's where
now you get brought into it. He's like, oh, and
it's not just Tesla, Like I like the whole space,

(05:33):
like have you ever heard of.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Terror?

Speaker 2 (05:37):
And I and I paused and I and I immediately
I'm like, I was like, or like Tello. He's like, Tello,
do you have your and and I was like are
you aware?

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Have you?

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Uh? Well, first I asked is like, I pause. I'm like,
I'm very aware, and I kind of smirk like okay.
I told us like, I'm I'm gonna be honest. I
was like, I'm gonna be honest with you. I haven't
been completely upfront with you, but I'm gonna just whatever,
like I'm actually heavily celebert. I'm like, I'm heavily I'm
heavily in the space, is why I told him. He goes,

(06:13):
He's like, yeah, me too. I'm like it's like no,
like I actually like I pause, like, oh I do
YouTube and you go He's like yeah, yeah, me too,
me too. I'm like like, no, no, I mean like,
I'm one of the first. I'm one of the first
people who documented and saw the cyber truck that didn't
have an reservation invite. I actually like in the wild,

(06:34):
I'm one of the first. But no, no, but no, no,
I'm that part. I'm embellis. I didn't say that part.
I was like, like, I'm actually in space. And he's like, yeah,
me too, And I go, so you talk about Tara
and and he was like yeah. I was like, are
you familiar of a And he pausly goes and he's
like do you know tlosive and like like, are you
are you? Are you familiar with the channel t Losive

(06:57):
and I smirk. I'm like, okay, so I'm not completely
upfront with you. Not only do I know Talosif, but
I know Drew and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, Drew
sy is I know Drew too? And I'm like no, no, no, no, no,
he's house he's he's He's like, yeah, I know Drews.
You're like no, I mean I I pause.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
I'm like.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
I was like this sounds this is so weird, like
I could call him right now and do that. But
I was like, I pause, I've called him right No,
I pause.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
I go that's funny.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
I pivot, like you know tlosive. He's like yeah, yeah, yeah,
I watched TLOSEF and that's how I know about AFTA
And I'm like, so do you know Mike And he pauses.
He's almost like a little bit confused. I was like,
are you are you aware of the podcast? And he's like,
I didn't know he had a podcast and I'm.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Like, oh, I'm not doing my job promoting.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
He's like he's like, I don't know he had a podcast.
I'm like so you don't know who Mike is. He's like, no,
I Drew write. His name is Drew. I'm like yeah,
and he's like, yeah, I know. I've seen his content
on Apptera and I watched his cyber truck coverage and
I see his Tello and I pause. I go, yeah,
I'm you're subscribed. He's like yeah, imster like the a thing,

(08:25):
like that's me. He's like what, He's like, I'm like
the music you hear, of course I know him. He's me.
I'm like that's uh, that's that's that's my doing. And
he pauses. He goes, oh are you He's like wait,
I'm confused. I'm like, we have a whole separate podcast

(08:49):
and I'm one of the co hosts of the podcast,
but like we I was like, you don't know the
you don't know the podcast. I was almost offended. How
do you know? Like, so, do you watch Tailors of Tech?

Speaker 3 (09:01):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (09:01):
Wait, wait, you watched Tailors Tech. He's like I don't know. No,
he pull.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
That's good. He's makes me feel good.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
She does not know Talos of Tech. He has an android.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
I'm like, I've discovered that I've noticed a lot of
people don't know about the other channel.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah. I think it's actually kind of cool because the
moment he's like yeah, he pulls up his phone to
go to YouTube to show me his thing, and I
see it's an android. I'm like, he doesn't know Taylors
of tech. I could tell you're not his demographic and
he's like taylos of VV. He's like his car accident,
you know if you heard about us, that's how it started.
That's how have you heard about his recent accident with FSD?

(09:43):
Because we were talking about FSD.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
I know a guy.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yeah, I'll tell you in a second. He's like, I
know a guy with FSD. Have you have you heard
about this story about it drifting? And I was like,
oh no, yeah, you don't know who I am. That's
he was kind of cool, like I like being humbled.
I like being humbled and remind me that I'm just

(10:09):
the person. I ain't crap and that's cool, But also,
how do you not know me?

Speaker 1 (10:14):
If you if you know?

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Tloseuf like, I'm the thing, I'm the I'm the thing
of the thing wrote. So we start talking about the
accident and he was like, that's just terrible. He's like
he's like, I don't want to butcher his thing, especially
if he's listening. But something he didn't agree with how
the community was responding. And he also he also he's

(10:40):
a big believer in FSD, but he he doesn't like
it right now, and he's more levelheaded. I thought he
was gonna come for you, to be honest with you.
I was ready to fight. I thought he was going
to come for you. And he was like, oh, I
know the guy, Like, it sucks what happened that that
should not have happened. It's very unfortunate it happened. I
don't like that it happened. I'm a believer in FST.

(11:00):
However there is there, it's not where it should be
at this point in time with everything that we know
about FSD. And he he was more he was definitely
my takeaway from that part of the conversation, he was
more sympathetic. He was showing more empathy than any of
the states saw.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, Steve thinks you're the real one.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah that's so funny. But yeah, he drew, I think
you need to promote our podcast more because he looked.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
At me like, I'm hoping. Chris McCammon on helped if
you're if you're into Aptera. We had the head of
marketing on our last episode, so at least more Aptera
fans should be aware of the podcast.

Speaker 2 (11:43):
But when I had talked to him, that episode had
not came out yet.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Just okay, while so he he.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
It was probably I don't know when you recorded it,
but it probably happened like last fry, or maybe it
was right before the episode actually had came out. I
was actually kind of hoping he he subscribed to the
channel by then, or at least this or however he
gets the information for podcasts, because when I saw that

(12:15):
you had him on, I was like, my first time, Oh,
Steve would like this because he's actually very excited about Aptera.
He likes what my take my overall take away conversation
with him was that he's a big believer in the space. Obviously,
he loves Tesla. He's a Tesla you know, he's one
of those bull run guys. He likes investing in Tesla,
but he also loves these other Evy exclusive startups, and

(12:38):
I'm like, hey, I like that. Yeah. I was like,
this is cool. So Steve, if you hear this, I
did check out your YouTube channel he does like little
YouTube shorts and he gives like, you know, motivational finance
type of I want to say this, Yeah, so what's up? Man?

(12:59):
And maybe I'll crush you in the parking lot again.
At some point, you can't be given our trajectory be
where I saw him. I don't think he lives too
far from me. And you know just where the grocery
store was that. I'm like, too many?

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Did we just become best friend?

Speaker 2 (13:13):
It was kind of cool. I like that I found
somebody who is aware of the name telosp and it
has no affiliation to tech. I thought that was very interesting.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
That's always cool to me too.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah, that conversation was nothing but EV's and it was
so much fun. We talked in the parking on for
thirty minutes. Wow, I have my wife texted like are
you coming home yet? And I had to tell her
like I didn't even go in the store yet. She goes, why,
I'm like, I met a fan. She goes, oh, you
met another fan of your Like, no, I met a
Drew fan. I was. I was trying to boast myself

(13:53):
that was more important than.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
You get those EV people together, they'll they'll kill hours
and hours an hour. That's the exact same thing. I
was gonna pick my wife up from work and I
was just at my cousin's house and he just took
delivery of his real real Drive long Range Model Y
and we were talking about the delivery experience and how
he was feeling about it, and I was like, holy smokes,
I'm late. I gotta go, dude. I'd been there for

(14:18):
thirty minutes, but it felt like ten seconds. You know,
you know how it is.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
I it was. That's exactly how it went down for
me too. I was like, oh, this guy, you know,
we can't be talking but every time, and I was
saying goodbye to him, and I realized like it seemed
like I was rushing to leave and I wasn't. I
felt like I was wasting his time. I was like, hey, Steve,
it was nice talking to you, and I was trying
to part my ways because I actually felt like I

(14:42):
was being intrusive, like I'm he doesn't want to hear this,
Like I'm you know how it is. I get that
we're gonna I'm gonna get going and then I'm not
gonna stop, and I'm wasting his time. And I'm like
I don't want to take up any more of your time.
And he kept saying that to me, like, hey, I
don't want to take him of your time. And I
realized that, like, oh, him and I are both equally

(15:04):
just as jazzed about this. So we just talked for
thirty minutes. My wife's calling.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
That could make a T shirt. That'd be a good one.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
You brought back the merch.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Never you could do it, but I won't. I won't anyway.
You brought up afterra before you do, I don't. Okay,
go ahead, No, I was.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Gonna say, you're gonna tell me how close you are,
but you didn't know.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
I was going to ask you a different question. I
was please. I was going to ask I know how
I feel and how APTERA feels because I'm close with them. Uh,
the whole powertrain switch. But I don't know if I've
heard your take anywhere about switching from the three hub
motor design that's technically all wheel drive with three wheels,

(15:59):
to now the single motor in the front, so it's
front wheel drive, but still sixty six percent of the
motors have power. I mean, sixty six percent of the
wheels have torque directly to them. I don't know if
I've heard your take on it.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
We have not talked about it. I think anything that
is not rear wheel drive, specifically rear wheel I feel
like is an improvement just period front front Okay, front
wheel drive, I feel is more important than real wheel drive.
And I think the the ultimate, the ultimate. I don't

(16:44):
want to say compromise because it's not a compromise.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
But.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
That is the smartest choice they could have done, is
putting it up front for the two and it's it's
all about efficiency with these guys, and I I think
this was the best update they could be, like, here's
what we're going to do with non all wheel drive,

(17:11):
and I actually I think it's I think it's I
might be wrong here. I thought that was always an option,
and so I was taken back when I was like,
this is news.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Yeah, they did in the configurator have front wheel drive
as an option, but back then it was still just
going to be two hub motors in the front.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
So the big change now is I'm pretty much saying
now we're not using the hub motors for the launch
edition because a LAFE isn't ready yet and they can't
scale to what we need, which I interpreted as good news.
I was like, wow, it's like you're switching a motor
design based on who's ready to go. To me, that's

(17:59):
a sign you're ready to go. It would have been
far worse for them to just say, yeah, I'm I'm
very excited. We're trying to coordinate the next trip down
there right now. So because I want to check out
the p I builds when they're ready.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
But sometimes you make me wish I was still living
in San Diego.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
Some good get you back now.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
I can't go back until some of that real estate
pricing corrects. I don't need it to go down. I
just needed to correct that's it. Then I can come home.

Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah, I know what you mean. But no, I was
just honestly, maybe I'm biased. Yeah, maybe I'm definitely biased
towards a TERROR because I'm such an efficiency guy and
I want them to succeed, and you know how I
feel about them. It's like, yeah, fisk Er dies, we
have other SUVs, a Tera dies, there's no solar car.

(18:56):
That's why I'm like, they've got it. They've got to
make this work. That it's got to be them. But
I thought the community's response to the price potentially being higher.
I mean, I think it's safe to say it will
be higher than what's on the website for sure. And
no one can.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Hurt me the way cyber truck hurt me, I would.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Say, relative to the cyber truck. You didn't think the
Aptera price hikes were.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
That No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. Actually, okay,
if I'm being on it, maybe actually you know, okay,
I'm approaching all this wrong. I always thought ap Terra
was underpricing their vehicles. Really, yes, how so I feel.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Like something so subid or.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Uniqueness, not in design but in functionality. Solar Solar's not cheap.
Just period Solar's not cheap.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Well, it's hard to fin.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
That's what I mean, Like just the production element of it.
I feel like, I know there's margin costs of like, okay,
so here's what it cost to make, and here's what
we can sell and make a when that's I always
felt like it was under priced. I don't know. I
was always expecting a starting price of a two wheel
vehicle like this one that is street legal. I meant

(20:27):
to say two seater, yeah, sorry, two seater, A two
seater vehicle normally in the vehicle space that is reserved
for like sports vehicles. Right, Like my first one I
think of because I used to drive one frequently because

(20:50):
it was my roommates, was a Nissan three fifty Z
that was a two seater, and I love that car.
My other favorite car was an Audi TT that was
also a two seater, and those things are are per ricey.
But yeah, you know I liked I liked small compact,
you know, debatably for its time, a sexy looking vehicle. Yeah,

(21:14):
then you get something that I would have never thought
about in my younger years, especially efficiency involved mm hmm.
And I always felt like efficiency comes at a cost,
personally a two seater efficient vehicle. Now, if it was

(21:35):
to come out today, I would like if Tesla made
a two door two seater.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Their version of a like a cheap roadster, like.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
A cheap roadster, like a very very very cheap single
motor roadster, a single motor roadster. I would start pricing
for Tesla. I would start it at sixty five.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Really wow. I would have just for the just for
the sporting nature of it.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
All of it, all of it, and there's a it
would have to be I would assume this is the
assumption that efficiency is involved, that it is a more
efficient vehicle. I I I always thought efficiency and price
value can uh, you know, have friction, like no efficiency

(22:21):
of this caliber a sport you're looking car, something easy
to navigate, but it comes a bit of out of
a premium cost because it's not your A lot of
people won't buy it. And I felt like that comes
out of cost because a lot of people won't buy it.
A lot of people will buy.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
The same as yes, suv, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Suv, trucks, crossovers, all those things I expect to be
cheap because they should be selling in mass volume. But
a two seater, a coup you know, anything that doesn't
have like those those those margins or these mass production
turnover kind of become more more expensive because they're making

(23:06):
less of them. So I always thought app Terra with
that logic, I would I would have back back. I
think two years ago m hm, muld have said starting
at sixty five, Wow, that's what I would. So I
always thought, I.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Can't imagine how the community would have reacted to that,
And so that's why I'm like.

Speaker 2 (23:25):
You know what, I don't know what I'm talking about
so in my brain, I wouldn't. I would pay sixty
for a nap Tarra really if I had the money, yes, yeah, yeah,
if I was, like and I'm in the market and
I position now right right, right now, I'm talking about
like just as the it's just me, there's no family

(23:46):
to involve, Like I can get whatever I want and
I have the funds for it, and it's just for me.
It's my plate toy. I would pay sixty for a
nap Era. I feel like that's reasonably priced.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
They'd love to hear you say that.

Speaker 2 (24:04):
I never talked about it because I'm like, oh me,
I like, I maybe I'm over valuing it.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
Maybe I just I do think it is, at least
early on. And I always get a lot of pushback
when I say this, But I'm like a vehicle that
looks so radically different. Yeah, there's some kind of value
to that. I mean, Tesla's definitely figured that out with
the cyber truck. And what what does the cyber truck

(24:30):
have over f one fifty lightning? You know, it's it's
not really the range. It's got steer by wire. It's
got that's cool. I'll give it that, But the frunk
is way bigger on the lightning the bed is a

(24:52):
little not quite as long as the cyber trucks, but
it is whiter than the cyber truck, right, So in
the cyber truck it kind of tapers in, whereas the
lightning bit is more square. So all kinds of like
trade offs, and you could, you know, the cyber truck
charges faster. I know all the on paper advantages. But
still the reason they were able to sell that thing

(25:14):
for one hundred thousand plus dollars is absolutely because of
the way it looks. It's iconic, it turns heads, it
attracts a certain amount of a certain kind of buyer,
and that's why celebrities are driving around the cyber truck,
and it's always the.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Ultra Watch or Series two. It's the same thing. Sure,
you've got to talk about that.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, And the value of having something that stands out
and turns heads is there, especially early on when it's
not a very commonplace product or design yet, which is
why I always thought, no, the accelerators, at least the
people who even if they're not technically on the accelerator list.

(26:00):
Like I was trying to tell people in the uptair community. Like, look,
even if you're disappointed that it's front wheel drive or
that it's thirty eight thousand instead of thirty thousand, like,
someone will buy that off you. There is a list
of people that probably aren't even aware of Aptera yet
that would pay a premium just to be one of

(26:22):
the first and to be able to buy something that
eye catching, that makes a statement about a brand and
about what they care about in regards to efficiency and
solar and wanting to challenge the status quo in regards
to vehicle design. It was like, Okay, I'm just shocked
that so many people were judging Aptera that their first vehicle,

(26:45):
their first launch edition model, was not like the most
price competitive, cost effective to some other established brand on
the market today. It's like, guys, it's their first model, right,
that's you wouldn't expect the Tesla Roadster to compete with

(27:07):
like the RAV four. But all of the same arguments
that's being used against the Apterra today could have been
used against the original Roadster.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Oh the Lotus looking one.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, yeah, you could say like, oh, that's too expensive
and I could buy something that has more seats and
is more economical and and Yeah, who cares that I'm
not paying for gas if it costs that much? And
I'm like, all of this still applies, But I still
think the Tesla Roadster was a substantial, significant moment for
the market because it was proving what an EV could be.

(27:43):
It wasn't about, you know, down the road. Once you've
scaled up production and once you've started bringing in some profits,
that's when you can start working on actually being like
genuinely cost competitive with some best selling models. And I
think relatively the Apptera it is very close to being
cost parody with what's already on the market today for

(28:06):
their first model, which is very difficult to do. I mean,
compare that to what Lucid's first model was, or Rivian's
first model was. You know, anybody on the street could
have said when the first R one T came out,
they could have said, oh, well, that's way too expensive.
I could buy a Tacoma and even ten years spending
money on gas would never get me to the price

(28:29):
that a Rivian costs, and I get better arranged with
the Tacoma. And you know, YadA, YadA, YadA. You can
go all around all day about how there's something on
the market already that can offer these things, and it's
all about a new brand and a startup to figure
out what their unique advantages are and what separates them.
For Rivian, it would be like the software and the

(28:51):
acceleration from the all electric powertrain and those those launch
editions from Rivian where it's like, hey, this is quad motor.
You're not going to find another election truck with this
kind of off roading capabilities or this kind of software
from a new brand. And I think a lot of
people were attracted to that, including yourself, that were like,
it's refreshing, it's attractive that it's a new brand and

(29:14):
that they're kind of starting fresh. It's not a reskin
of an F one fifty. Here's just an F one
fifty that's now electric. It's like, no, they're paving their way.
They're finding their own design language and their own software
and they're making it their own. And I don't know,
I'm hopeful that Aptera can find their own community like
that in this next year of actually reaching the market

(29:38):
and actually starting to build something. It's like you find
the people that care about your priorities and are willing
to pay a premium for that early on because they
know it's unique and they know it's different and not
just go like, well this has more seats. It's like, well,
if that was important to you, you were never going
to buy the Apptara in the first place. This was not,

(30:01):
So it's not in the discussion.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Like that's my whole stance with the whole Like I'm
not I can't be in the market because it no
longer accommodates what I'm looking for. But yeah, I I'm
not crapping on it though, Like it's with app Terra's
placement right now in the EV space, I'm getting some

(30:25):
pretty strong Tesla vibes again from a whole different category though,
like with Rivin, it's like it's another EV vehicle or
a truck even but app Terra is its own thing

(30:45):
and it's yeah, it's going to turn heads the exact
same way cyber truck has been. Like app Tara is
going to get the same attention as a cyber truck,
just on a smaller scale because a lot of people
don't know. So many people don't know about Aptera, which

(31:07):
is aftera's benefit, it's it's it's it's uh that they
can use that to their advantch because all you can
go from there is really up. You're not losing market.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
They will. I think the cyber truck kind of went
viral once delivery started, you know, that's true and similar
with aptera once you're right, most people have no idea
who they are except Steve at the grocery store. But
they've built quite a big community just online. But it's

(31:38):
gonna be a whole different wave once deliveries begin and
there's actually people driving them around. They're gonna sit there,
We're gonna get videos on TikTok and Instagram go what
is that thing? What am I looking at? And then
people drive up to it and they're curious, like why
does it look that way? What is going on? And
they're gonna see the solar and I think it's gonna go, oh,

(31:59):
they're making soul cars. Now that's a thing, right, And
I have already spoken to kids, adults, everyone that's just thought,
you know, maybe these are cool, but why don't you
throw some solar panels on that thing? And it's just
going to click in so many people's minds. I feel
like when they see it out driving around, that like,
oh yeah, that makes sense, And unlike the cyber truck.

(32:20):
Where people are I think Marquez mentioned in his review
of it, he was like, the most common thing is
what is that? And how much did you pay for it?
And something like an aptera gathering similar amounts of attention.
If it turns into what is that? What did you
pay for it? And now people can say, you know,

(32:42):
thirty seven thirty eight thousand dollars instead of one hundred
thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I would just say I would say that's the Yeah,
that blows my mind. I would say the solar, the
design obviously, and then the actually, how how about even
some of the the curiosity of a Terra People seeing
it will be enough of a driver too to get

(33:14):
more uh for lack of a better word, media coverage
on them.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I think that this just got a little when when
I drove it for ten minutes and there was already
guys like roll down your window. We rolled it down
and he's like, what is that? I left the factory
like two minutes before it, and I'm like, that's just
one once.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Once you can market the efficiencies of a vehicle like that,
it's going to sell itself, Like why does it look
like that? Why does it where's the other wheel? Why
is it so?

Speaker 1 (33:51):
It?

Speaker 2 (33:52):
All that can be answered simplicit, simplicity, simplicity, Yeah, simply, that's.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
And I think, honestly, the answers to the questions Aptera
gathers are going to be more interesting than the cyber truck.
Not trying to pooh poop Tesla, but I've seen many
people in my personal life talk about this design and say,
why does it look like that? I don't have a
great answer, but the best I can think of. You know,

(34:24):
ask me a couple of years ago, and I would
have said, well, it's the exoskeleton. It has to be
rigid and strong. And now I've seen the steals pop
off and people tend to so rigid, and it's like,
all I can say is because they wanted it to
be bulletproof, or because Elon wanted it to look different.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Which that's it. I don't I don't find that answer
as intriguing because then you anytime you bring Elon into
the discussion, it's the guy with the cigarette. Mean, they go,
why does it look like that?

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Well, you know what he said.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
I heard Elon said, and I'm like, oh god, I
just wanted to talk about I gotta defend Elon's latest
opinion on some political subject.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
You know what's funny? I I did not know this,
but I'm I'm actually I live in a relatively more
what's the word conservative area, and so when people see
when they when when Elon gets brought up now, especially now,
they're like, he seems nice in me, I'm just like, ah,

(35:48):
can we can we just move on from this? I
don't care what he has to say. I just wanted
to stop talking about it.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I don't care, I hate. I really agreed with what
Gally from Hyperchange tweeted yesterday. I thought it was a
really I don't agree with everything I per changed as,
but I thought it was a really well articulated tweet
just about how Tesla owners don't want to become Elon
defenders or stands or anything. Really, there should not be

(36:17):
any human being brought up this much by a car purchase.
And I'll admit this is kind of a side tangent.
My last thoughts on Aptera that I'll conclude is just
that the questions that it brings people to ask have
scientific and fun answers, like why does it look like that? Well,

(36:39):
because aerodynamics in order to achieve ten miles per kilo hour,
you need to displace as much. There's a genuine answer
instead of Elon wanted it to be bulletproof, which just
brings it more political. But on that side of things,
I think. So I don't know where to be in Randy,

(37:00):
I'm glad you're here. I okay, I could start so
many different ways. My desktop on my computer is the
R three, okay. My wallpaper is the Red Canyon R

(37:23):
three renders that Rivian Forums came up with. And I
talked with my wife not too long ago about whether
she would want an R two or an R three,
And this all stemmed back to really me being kind
of upset with the way Tesla has very much become

(37:48):
so associated with him, and I don't want to either
support or defend him. I just I want to be
able to show up somewhere and have that not come up.
And it's kept, at least in my social circle, it
keeps coming up where I drive a Tesla, and now
people want to talk to me about Elon because of Tesla,
and I just Elon's a human being. He says things

(38:11):
I agree and disagree with. Okay, it's a complicated. I don't.
I'm not trying to say he's one hundred percent bad
or good. He's just a person and I just got
sick of the association that it got me to a
point where I'm now genuinely thinking of, like, I should
buy a Rivian so that I don't have to deal
with this anymore, just so I can support a brand

(38:33):
I believe in, or a brand that I align with
more simply, I don't know how our J voted and
I don't care. That's the whole point, is the fact
that I don't know. No one knows, and I like
it being that that's not what ER want to come
up in conversation, right, Yeah, because he's not as outspoken.

(38:54):
There's not that association where people are coming up to
you when you have a Rivian and going, well, what
do you think of RJ? They don't care, They go
what do you think of the car? Yes, it's more
focused on the product. But I kept catching myself for
a second because I realized, when I drive my Model three,
I still love this thing. This is still a good product.

(39:16):
I've had my issues with it, but it's reliable and
I appreciate efficiency. I appreciate aerodynamics, and I love having
the next port and I like having access to the
full superchargein network. And I said, well, wait a second,
I'm really getting invested. Like we got to the point
where I was thinking about putting a deposit down on
the R two and thinking around the time when the

(39:39):
R two comes out, that might be around the time
when we're ready to pull the trigger on an suv
of some kind. We've talked about wanting to have a
bigger vehicle or something that would be better at car camping,
or at least have more storage capacity, or my wife
really wants a hatchback of some kind. We were going
off road with some friends lately and I had to
straight up just a like we were going like swimming

(40:02):
slash like gold panting up in this creek way out
in the middle. Yeah, it was fun, we had a
good time, but it was straight up like, we're going
off road. Do you want to meet us there? And
I had to say no because I don't want to
take my Model three, Like I don't trust my Model
three to be able to get there, not because of
range or battery, it was simply because of we're going

(40:23):
off road and I need something with more ground clearance
or you know, some more off road capability, and I
kept thinking about Rivan the whole time of like, this
was a really fun experience. I loved swimming here, and
I I want to be able to come back here
and not have to borrow a friend's gas car or
you know, I want to be able to It was
a really cool spot i'd never been to that wasn't

(40:44):
too far from me, and I was like, Wow, there's
some there's some adventure to be had out there to
keep the world adventurous. But I was like, but if
Tesla comes out with something, I really like, if I
am I wrong to prioritize or want to spend extra

(41:04):
money because my wife was also like, well at that point,
why don't we just buy used Model X or you know,
on on why that's got some miles on it. And
I've found my defense to that argument of like why
not get used Tesla for cheaper than an R two
was simply because it's a Tesla. I don't want another Tesla.

(41:25):
And I was like, what have I become? Yeah, it's
like I used to be this like big, I got
the flag in here, and I've got a semi on
my desk and I've got two different Cybertruk mockups, and
I was like, I'm this big Tesla fan, and all
of a sudden, I'm becoming that guy that I used
to criticize of, like, don't let Elon's opinions influence what

(41:47):
you buy. Just buy what makes sense to you. And
I'm like, holding on a second, I'm actually on the
other side now where I'm going. People are suggesting, like
my wife, like, you know, let's just get a used
model or use Model X. Let's see what the price is.
Are there, something could be cheaper, could be more efficient,
he could have more range, and I would swear it

(42:07):
off because of what I think of Elon, And I'm like,
what am I doing? This is this goes against what
I've been preaching, and I just felt like I don't
know who I am anymore.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
We have another crisis.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
Yeah, we're gonna have two therapy sessions today. But man, yeah,
I just that was That was the dilemma I've been having,
is like will I would I buy a Tesla again?
And I think the conclusion I was kind of coming
to is I know too much Because my cousin is
a great example. M H. He who just took delivery

(42:46):
of his rib Real Drive model y. He loves it.
He said nothing but good things about it. Doesn't have
a single uh service ticket, He's never taken it to
the service center, doesn't find any problems with it, even
though it was made in Fremont, and he was just like, oh,
it's the best supercharging. So he's got Tesla Solar already
on his house, so he's got the whole ecosystem going.

(43:08):
He bought the Tesla Solar years ago in preparation. He's like,
I'm getting a Tesla one day. It's just I gotta
wait till my minivan conks out on me. And then
he got in an accident and the minivan was total
so he was like, all right, I did it. I
bought it, and he loves it. They're both speaking so
highly of it, and he hates Elon from the bottom
of his heart.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
He's more so than me.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I'm kind of mild on him. I'm like, well, you
have to be kind of crazy, optimistic and insane in
order to attempt the things that he had done. And
Mats's like, oh my god, he's I can't believe him.
He's ridiculous and years ago, even before he hated Elon,
long before today. And yet I kind of envied the

(43:53):
fact that he's able to separate art from artist so efficiently.
He is able to put his foot down and just say,
well that Tesla's the best that's the best product. So
obviously I'm gonna buy that. I hate Elon, but he's
able to acknowledge and see, like, this is a you know,
one hundred thousand person company. I'm not going to write

(44:17):
it off because of one man.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
But the one man has a lot of weight.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
He does have a lot of weight, that's true. So
that's why I'm like.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
It's not just you know, Jerry from the Cells department,
like that's Elon Muss.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
It's not like, you know, there's there's a lot of
horrible people in the world. I'm sure there's a lot
of horrible people that work at any company that you
buy from. There's no way you're gonna align. And I
see that argument. It's a very valid argument, and I've
used it against people in the past of just like, no,
you shouldn't swear off a company or a brand simply

(44:58):
because you don't agree with everything that the leader says.
That's silly because you're never gonna align with whatever the
leader believes or says. But I think the counter argument
that I'm now experiencing firsthand is when there's so much
brand association with such a prominent celebrity, it's almost impossible

(45:22):
to not be affected by it. Now where it's like,
I really don't want to have an Elon talk everywhere
I go, even though I love this product and I love,
you know, what I can do with it, and I've
road tripped with it and I'm very satisfied. I'm a
satisfied customer. And even here's the funny thing though, is

(45:43):
even if I switch to a Rivian, I'd be using
superchargers all the time.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
So but nobody talks about Elon when it comes to
super because that right there you I don't know if
it's appropriate. I've personally, I've out with this in my
own life about separating the art from the artist, and
I used to I distinctly make it a comment about

(46:10):
like don't uh, you know, if you like the art,
appreciate the art. But yeah, I think I've changed.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
I knew it would be fun topic for you because
you're like to save your money, you know, watch your budget,
watch your wallet. But what happens which I think this
is actually a very real possibility if the Tesla route
is the more affordable route. Dude, But no, that's true, man.
You got to pay the premium to get away from it.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
You know, like it sucks because you hit the You
hit the nil right on the head. Right from the
offset of this whole conversation is that we know too much, right.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Like my cousin Matt, he's not reading Elon's tweets. He's not.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
And it's not even that.

Speaker 4 (46:59):
Elon has.

Speaker 2 (47:01):
Provoked his fan base, he's activated them. And I think
the last straw of solidifying what I was struggling with
is what happened to you. And I don't know why,
but I take personal offense about that in a way

(47:22):
that I can't get It's been what a month. I
can't forget. I can't get over it.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
I don't know why I can't. Something about being a
fan and knowing how toxic those same fans can be. Yeah,
that whole experience with the flat tire definitely, like never before,
it made me want to disassociate with the brand. It

(47:47):
was like, I don't want to give.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
You this as a friend, that day. I'm not making
this up because of the show. I was this close
to just sitting sell all and and I was screw
my my exitus.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
I didn't care about the potential losses.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Or I didn't either. That's the thing, man, Like I
was upset. I was upset for you and I and
and it's made me mad that because it's like it
was such a high mind mentality for all the reasons
we've already talked about. But then it's also like there
is a cult leader at the head of all this animosity.

(48:30):
And I don't care what Elon believes in. I just don't.
I know, I'm not all one thing. I'm not all
Republican or Democrat or whatever like I I I don't.
I don't care. I just simply that's it's that simple.

(48:50):
But every time he provokes something, all his little yes
men minions that work for free, oh you know, twenty
four hours over the clock here that like just defend
everything he says, makes me like it's cringe. It's just like,

(49:12):
grow up. Have I have independent thought about things that
make me? Elon's view of the world is not my
view of the world. There are things I agree with
him about, strongly, so much so that for years of
my life, I put my money where my mouth is
and I invested in the company and I bought a
product to align with my beliefs of what he believed.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
At one point, I grete up tweets. Do you see
those old tweets that came out. I don't want to
get into politics. I just want to make great problems
for the world. And I was like, see, I remember that.
I remember I do tweets, and I remember going, yeah,
that's the way to be, don't part of me.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Yeah, part of me was looking for, like where's our
modern day? Like there was a vacuum in this like
i'd say influencer space, but I don't mean influencer like YouTubers.
I mean genuine innovators. There was a vacuum when Steve
Drobs died, and I never had such clarity again until

(50:21):
early Elon Musk, and I wasn't looking. Maybe maybe a
part of me, a younger version of me, was looking
for something bigger than me to believe in that can
take the form of a human flaws and all because
I wanted to rally behind something that I couldn't maybe

(50:43):
articulate or understand why, but I just knew emotionally that
it was the right thing. And I distinctly, you want
to talk about like I distinctly remember twenty seventeen and
the whole Submarines situation on trying to save somebody and
him fighting with somebody and all that, and I distinctly

(51:07):
was like, that's you know, Elon, that's kind of inappropriate,
but all right, man, you know whatever, But that he
was getting suit, like you know, this is like that
guy was crazy and all these things. I'm thinking, like dang.
And I remember like people coming for Steve Jobs back
when he was alive, and I was like, dang, yeah,
like I don't appreciate what he's doing.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
And I realized my job had a Twitter account.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Horrible my But my outlook was wrong from the get go,
because maybe I was looking for simple simply, I was
looking for a role model, something I couldn't find in
my own life, something I didn't have in my own
immediate circle of things. I was always somebody else's role model.

(51:54):
But I was like, I want a role model, someone
I can maybe in some way at least in an
action emulate, but just in my own lane. And I
realized look, and I cony realized talk about Steve jobs
like connect the docs looking back, I was looking for
that with a big innovator, Like it was crazy because

(52:16):
like the whole like do you want to make a
dent in the universe? Right? That was Steve's thing, And
I was like, dang, you are saying things that like
I didn't even think was possible that mankind could even
be capable of trying to even emulate. And he did.
And in a way, Steve or Elon also with evs

(52:39):
Haws is things with space. He does incredible things, things
that I just regardless of how I feel, I will
never deny him his flowers for that he's done incredible work.
But good God, when they say don't meet your idols. God,

(53:00):
I remember specifically in twenty seventeen, I said I had
this conversation with a friend in real life and I
said I would give anything. I would pay literally and
we even had I would pay a literal fifty thousand

(53:21):
dollars to be a fly on the wall for one
day and just shadow Elon and see how what he's like,
because he was such an enigma back then. And I
meant that, yeah, this is around the time, I'm also
investing in Tesla and stuff like that. And I already
had this trajectory of.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Like, I think I said similar things in my earlier videos.
I said, like I hope I get to meet him
or interview him one day.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Yeah, Like I was so jealous when Marquez got to
go to the factory and Jonathan Morrison Fallow, I was like,
oh man, I could not get enough. I watched every podcast,
I would watch any and everything, and then COVID happened,

(54:07):
and so now it's like wow. And then I start
growing up because I had a very adolescent mindset about
all that, because like it's it's flawed to I want
to find an idol, and there's there's a that's a
whole nother philosophical almost like discussion there. But I started
just looking I have to do it. I wish Mike

(54:30):
was here so he can, you know, hate on me
about this. But I started to look at the world
with my own eyes, and then I was like, I
value my what I see through the world over what
anybody else does. I can parallel my thoughts with some
people that I agree with and understand and have better

(54:51):
clarity about it. But I'm only at this point, just
trying to find better clarity about the things that I
find value in and when that was happening, especially like
especially the the the the the catalyst of it all
is the whole Twitter acquisition situation. I just slowly was like, no,

(55:14):
I don't know, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
At the same time, I was rooting for it too.
If you go back and watch my videos, I was.
I was advocating that like, hey, the previous Twitter management
was not doing a great job, like I wis true. Yeah,
it still is true, And and I was critical towards
how Twitter was being run in the past, so I
was all in favor of, like, let's just have a
change in leadership regardless if it's gonna be elin, Okay,

(55:40):
let's let it be elin. And then yeah, it felt I.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Remember like because this is at the same time too,
that I'm over here rooting for like you know, Nick
Nick leaves the show to go pursue his his film,
his photography passions, Yeah, documenting star bas And I'm like, dude,
like I've never been more inflicted where I'm like.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
I stuff he's got going on, in my opinion is
the SpaceX.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
Agreed, Oh it's yeah, And it's not because we don't
know much about it's because I like, I think that's
just on a macro level, like that's so much more
important too. Yeah, Anyway, I like this whole time. I'm
over here like conflicted. From from twenty twenty two to now,
I've been like, ah, but I've been slowly being more

(56:28):
pushed away, pushed away, pushed away because he's not behaving
like a chief executive. He's not behaving like someone who's
running a public company. I don't care how he behaves
on Twitter because it's not a publicly traded company. I'm
not invested into it. I didn't put money in, and
I never would have. I don't care how. The same
reason about like a SpaceX for the same reason, but

(56:50):
because I got in at such a weird earlier time
in my life with with with Tesla and wanting to
buy it and all these things. And he's in lifetime
affecting the stock because of his ego. He's not acting
like a chief executive. Yes, neurotic, maybe even autistic, as

(57:11):
he self proclaims. He's not diagnosed, but he self proclaims
there are things that make him look at the world
very differently and he behaves very differently. I get that,
but you're my guy. You are in a management position.
You are in a leadership position that has real world
repercussions to your shareholders, and so people have told you
me another, just show your stock and get index funds

(57:34):
and da da da da da. Instead, dude, I will
believe you me. I will. Yeah, I will tell you
I have an nexus strategy for that and lessons learned too.
But none of that bothered me more than watching a
hive mind swarm you. I could have still let all

(57:55):
of that go all these years and not let it
affect me the same way, because business is business, and
business will be good because the product is good. But
blah blah blah blah blah. But the moment like it happens,
like this happened to you for some weird emotional reason,
maybe because I know you so well. I don't I
don't really know what it is, but I felt so

(58:19):
personally offended and discussed it, and I felt I felt
secondhand toxic and gross and just like, no, I don't
see this in that terra rivian. Uh shoot, I thought
for a second, I was like, I'll just get a

(58:40):
mock e or an F one fifty lightning, like I
don't see and trust me. Ford versus Chevy has been
a decades long thing, like it has its own problems,
and like I will run with this crowd and be
affiliated as a Ford guy before I want to continue
this train anymore. Like I felt so upset because it's

(59:02):
I blame el On and I and and there's all
these other people who are looking for their idol who
might just court I forget the word not correlate, but
the more or less, everybody comes together group and they

(59:22):
they ultimately like I found a community. This is my community,
and I'm going to defend my community because we are
That's just how our brains are, Like we we have
to defend our communities because maybe in a very primal,
maybe barbaric way, we had to defend our tribe or
our home or our village. And so we have an
sinctual reaction of defending the thing that we care about

(59:44):
or the people that we care about. Even if you
don't know them, you will defend the idea of them,
and maybe in the exact same way way that like,
because I do know you and I and I saw
that happen to you. I don't know about the community
like that, but I know who you are, and I
know what that whole situation that should never happen to anybody,

(01:00:07):
but especially you should not have not happened to you,
And and the tactics that are being used against you,
that is just a variance of things that Elon would
have said. I'm thinking, like, dude, this is gross, and
it makes me so frustrated that I too, and just

(01:00:28):
I don't My next car can't be a Tesla, at
least not not in this current leadership position. It can't
because I'm not okay with how irresponsible and immature the
community is. And and I know we'll get hate for that,

(01:00:48):
and we have gotten crapped on, but we take take
yourself anybody who who just has that instinctual reaction to
want to respond and defend anything and everything Tesla and
Elon and Elon Tesla, because it's one of the same.
If you just remove the community element from there, would

(01:01:09):
you have been okay with anybody if this was in
the public street, or even if somebody you knew got
attacked that way just because of a situation that was
that was no matter how you look at it, unfortunate
and it was sad to have ever even happened. And

(01:01:30):
then you use that kick somebody when they're down, use
that opportunity to just like, ah, like would you participate
in that? Would you be that hive mine? And you
see it more and more in America with this heightened,
heightened like division about something. If it's not us, it's them,

(01:01:53):
it's always in us versus them somebody. Why does there
always have to be a bad guy? Why is there
always an antagonist? Why can't it be we want to
make everything better for the sake of making it better
without there being a villain associated to it. It has
to take to a point of what an attempt at
political assassinations and stuff like that. At this point, it's like,
what what are we doing here that you're willing to

(01:02:15):
just cause so much animosity and hate and all these
things that I just I don't want anything to do
with it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
And then I just see this peaceful, little, quaint, humble
beginnings and ain't much but it's on this work garden
of Rivian flowers growing, or Abtera flowers growing, or even
tell flower, and I'm like, oh, and it's warmer over there,
the sun is on this skin.

Speaker 4 (01:02:45):
But the air is crisp, but the sun is warm,
and it's like, oh, I can just relax over here,
and it's quiet, and you hear little birds tripping and
you're just like wow, and sure, we're using a box
to help grow these things. Metaphorically call it that of
the supercharger. And so it's purely it has a little

(01:03:05):
testa logo, but it's like, Okay, it's just a piece
of the equation. If I don't like it or something
else don't work, there's other chargings. Who cares, because then
you don't feel like this weird.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Not in your stomach about like, oh I gotta defend this,
I gotta talk about this, I gotta whatever when there's so.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Much Yeah, I agree, there's much much cooler things to
talk about. But I think what a lot of this
feeling stems from is wanting to like teach everybody a lesson,
you know, like that'll show them if I get rid

(01:03:44):
of my car or sell my stock or buy a
product from that competing brand, that that kind of like
is your own way of you know, voting against with
your wallet. And I think what I've just come to
accept maybe not everybody feels this way. But like I've

(01:04:05):
just accepted that there are powerful people or people with
a lot of money that are still part of the problem,
as you would say, like a toxic member of the
community that attacks or shames anybody who has bad experiences
or shames elon. They're flawed people, and I guess I'm

(01:04:29):
tending to not look at it so much as they're
flawed because the brand is flawed. Instead, they're flawed because
they're human. And at the end of the day, even
with its flaws in the community, even with its flaws
and its leadership that we may not agree with, there
are still quality products that can come out of it,

(01:04:51):
and products that are safe, that are efficient, that are affordable,
that check all the boxes. And I suppose I'm just
envious of the people that aren't as involved with the community.
You know, if it was if it was my cousin
who hit the pothole and had a bad experience, he's
not going out tweeting about it and getting dogpiled on.

(01:05:13):
He just had a sacki experience and he tells his
friends and family about it, and that's that and then
he goes about his day. But because my experiences or
because I'm a more content creator in my line of work,
and I feel like it's it is about honesty, being
transparent with all the good and all the bad, and

(01:05:34):
that's what we should do as content creators is share
Here's what I like, Here's what I don't like. Your
experience is kind of magnified, more so than the average
consumer may experience. You know it average consumer experience. Something
goes bad, something goes wrong, you remember it, You get

(01:05:56):
a little chip off the shoulder and go, ah, that sucked.
I guess I'll pay attention more next time, or I'll
be more careful with how service handles things next time.
And then you go about your day. Yeah, and you're
not thinking about it. Like if this would have happened
and I wasn't a content creator, this happened weeks ago,
and I wouldn't even be thinking about it. But because

(01:06:17):
I'm a content creator and we talk about our experiences
and how the community reacts to things, this kind of
gives us a preview of here's what the masses are
gonna think of these concepts, and here's the people who
agree or don't agree with whatever subject matter there is.
So in that regard, I'm trying to fight that urge

(01:06:40):
to just feel like, well, even though I'm on Twitter
more than the average person and I know way more
about what Elon's tweeting than the average person does, I
can't let that get to me. Can't let the toxic
community get to me and basically force me to make
a purchase decision that is not necessarily the best one

(01:07:02):
purely because of who I want to be associated with or.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
That kind of Yeah, but you shouldn't be punished because
of your profession. That's not how that works.

Speaker 6 (01:07:12):
Where now you you have to suck it up because
something very unique has happened or is happening to you, because.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Like, at the end of day, your feelings are still
valid no matter what. It doesn't it's not a punishment
or reward that your line of work is that of
more of a public visibility that doesn't negate anything about
your experience your feelings towards it. And talking about like

(01:07:50):
this whole you know, being true to ourselves things from
tech Earlier, like you had a real situation and we
talked about how like I used to tweet to literally
nobody for years, I was tweeting out loud that had
you put that tweet out there nobody saw it. Doesn't
negate the fact that you were so frustrated in that
moment about the situation that happened with FSD, and just

(01:08:13):
the fact that it got amplified because of the people
around it and because of your your line of work here.
Now you're expected to just tame your emotions and be
less authentic. Now you're expected to to deal with it
because you're in the public eye. That's not how this works. No, nobody,

(01:08:36):
nobody tells you. Don't tell anybody how they're supposed to
feel or respond, and nobody should be telling you how
to feel or respond. That's not how this works. You
have the You have the exact same amount of rights
to feel and experience life, especially in evs, as much
as your cousin who is not on social media. Your

(01:08:58):
yours is not greater or less than. And it doesn't
diminish just because you have a following. Screw the following.
That doesn't The following doesn't make or break none of
the fact that that situation happened, the pot will happened.
That wasn't going to change none of it. That was
always going to happen, regardless it took you saying Okay,

(01:09:21):
now I know I'm not going to do it anymore.
That was always going to happen with or without your
line of profession, So it is not fair for you
to have to well, this would have been different in
the reaction. Who cares about their reaction. We we can't
control the reaction to it. The only thing that matters
is that that had happened. And also what matters is

(01:09:45):
the fact of the matter is what matters, meaning this
is your field, You're in this space, you do feel
the way you feel, and if that means I might
want to try other things, that is a valid reaction
action to the response of your job, of your Limelight

(01:10:06):
Online public persona that if now it makes me want
to explore other options. If that happened to me, which
which is funny because it kind of feels like indirectly
did happen to me, All that tells me is that like,
all right, now, I'm gonna have other new content to
cover as well when we get to that point, because

(01:10:27):
it's not tailos of Tesla, it's tailos of ev So
when when Appterra eventually launches and you and you are
able to use those referral things to redeem and and
and get your hands on it. That was that too
was always going to happen then with or without that

(01:10:48):
situation happening, and you would have now new maybe uh
more matured perspective of the product line of evs and
maybe inevitably, because of your job, you may have been
always destined to slowly move away from Tesla just to

(01:11:10):
give other vehicles the same window of opportunity that you
gave Tesla. No different than you putting your card into
a z flip or a pixel. It doesn't matter if
that's simple. It's just it's on a bigger skill with
more numbers associated to it, but the operations is still
the same. So if there was a backlash that happened,

(01:11:34):
like it did happen, you should have a type of
uh you have a unique perspective of what had happened
with the community. Because of that, that should alter your
your opinions on what you want to do going forward
in a fair way. That's like, well, listen, this is

(01:11:54):
my experience and because of that, I'm now going to
just maybe consider trying other things. And that's valid and
people because like if you leave and they and they
crap on you, like you were never realb but they
were always going to say that no matter what the situation,
they're just looking for a reason. Or if you stay
and they're like, Isaay, you're just an Elon musk boy.
Who can't you know whatever? Like, people are always going

(01:12:16):
to have their pain. We will never change the hate
that comes our way. You taught me that one. With
all the hate that I sometimes get, that like, it's
gonna happen and we can't control that. But what we
can't control is our own experiences. And your experience was
unique to this one, but it's still a valid one
because it affected more than just you. It affected the

(01:12:37):
people in your car. The reactions on Twitter has affected me.
I'm it's not changing how I feel, even though you're
making the like, well, if it happened to anybody else, well,
didn't it happened to you? So you have this unique
view of life because of your positioning of it. You
have a unique perspective that may or may not have

(01:12:58):
a repbul effect. And regardless of that, it's a true
event that happened.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
If this all, if all of anything else that's exposed
was a bit of a toxic environment, I'm glad I'm
now more aware of the environment because it makes me
make a better judgment call if we're when that time
comes and I have to make that decision.

Speaker 2 (01:13:21):
We don't know what's going to happen. We might change
our minds a year or two from now, where like
you know what, I think I'm going to rock with
the Model three, you a little bit longer. We don't know,
but I want to have I rather have more information
than less. I don't want to be ignorant to the
space that I'm in. I would not have bought Tesla
with my ignorance. I bought my Tesla when I did
because of my knowledge. Everyone else was crazy, I think,

(01:13:43):
calling me crazy for doing it, but hey, noone's ever
ignorant for it, And now nobody's saying I made a
dumb mistake. But in twenty nineteen I had coworkers saying
I was freaking stupid, and I was like, well, I
would want it, and guess what I mine stood the
test of time. But I would rather make always more
decisions based off of more knowledge instead of ignorance. So yeah, yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
It, that's fair. I do think it's important to keep
in mind that, you know, because it's a it's a
toxic humanity problem. This could happen with any brand, you know.
I I was pretty disappointed with a lot of the
APTARIS community's reaction because I feel like, like like you said,
how I'm confirmation bias. I'm probably confirmation bias for a

(01:14:28):
lot of APTERA people. That's true, but it's it's because
I genuinely personally align with the same things that they do,
Like the things they prioritize are important to me, and
I think they make the right decisions. So that's why
I defend them. And if I think they do something wrong,
I call them out on it. And now I actually

(01:14:48):
have the ability to literally call them when they're doing
something wrong. And I've done that. I've I've straight up
I've told them, uh they announce things or if they
do something, I can I've got Chris both the Chris's numbers,
so I can say, hey, just think about this before

(01:15:09):
you blah blah blah. You know, I've suggested things.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
And because of your unique positioning of your public persona
where you're at, you also get the benefit of having
some direct line of accesses to these other people that
aren't called Elon where maybe it has a better, bigger
and more effective impact. You know, like, hey, listen, I'm
just saying my piece. You make the decisions you're call

(01:15:36):
I'm just saying, have you looked at it from this
point of view?

Speaker 4 (01:15:38):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
You have cool? Oh you haven't much.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yeah, that's pretty much what we've done. But like all
I'm saying is, I think it could be an endless
battle if you switched brands every time the community did
something that frustrated you. Because like we could be we
could be early RJ's art. Maybe RJ is in Elon

(01:16:05):
twenty sixteen mode and a few more years ago down
the road and RJ will start tweeting crazy things or say.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
Either die hero or you live long enough to become
the villain.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
That that's it, Which is why, because that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:19):
Happened to Bill Gates. It happened.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
It happened to Steve Johns, it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Did, and then he died a villain. He died a
hero before well, he was maybe a villain in the He.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Saw social media coming into play and you know, I
don't want to be around for this.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
He had some unreleased Apple product that showed him the future,
and he saw what Twitter was about to become and
that the time machine his body reacted in such a
negative way gave him cancer. And he's like, I rather
have this. I'm going to head out. He had the
first prototype of vision pro he saw he had the
vision went straight.

Speaker 4 (01:17:03):
Is just.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
Ai nick necklace?

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
That thing was so ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
It's not here to defend it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
But I want to ask you something. And I was
going to start the show with this. Okay, I guess
we can end a show with this instead. Still could
be a good title and thumb nail idea. Have we
been This is an honest question, and I want you
to reflect.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Okay, have we been too harsh?

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Wrong? Or have we not given fair assessment on modern
day hybrids?

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
See, I'm thinking like you told me to.

Speaker 2 (01:17:53):
I want you to. It's it's an honest question.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
My knee jerk reaction is to answer as quickly as possible.
But I'm trying to. I know why. Oh I'm stalling.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Did you see my tweet today? Is that why you're asking?

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
No, I haven't been on besides the thing that you
sent me and I tweeted my little apple thing. I
haven't actually.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
Left no well without directly answering your question. Tweet. Five
hours before posting this was someone tweeted a photo of
the latest generation Prius. Oh, and it says one of
life's cruelties is that the new Prius looks genuinely stunning,

(01:18:38):
but they fitted it with a drive train duller than
American chocolate.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
And I quote tweeted that with Literally as I read
that tweet, there was I was at ironically auto shop.
I was getting the Sonata fixed because my Sonata has
been having problems. And literally minutes before I read that tweet,
I had saw the new twenty twenty four Toyota Prias,

(01:19:04):
so I quote tweeted his tweet by saying, I'm seeing
a lot of these and it's the only gas vehicle
that's tempted me to switch back. Whoam Oh, So it's
funny that you bring that up.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Interesting. I did not see your tweet.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
To be fair, I have not test driven one, and
I have is that weird? Fair? Better research? It's kind
of a nice yellow I agree, But is that a render?
I don't know. Maybe, But to answer your question more directly,

(01:19:39):
instead of giving you hints left and right, yeah, I
do think based on the replies I got, which I
didn't think were toxic, but the replies I got to
that quote tweet I think painted the bigger picture of hybrids,
which is that there's added complexity because now you have

(01:20:04):
a combustion engine and a high voltage battery and an
electric motor to maintain. And typically the additional price of
that complexity results in the gas savings not really paying
for the premium that is the battery and the high

(01:20:28):
voltaged wiring. I will admit on paper, it is very.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
Appealing, like you're looking at it from an upkeep point
of view, like the cost of maintenance.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Because a good argument that someone corrected me on with
that tweet was that while hybrids may have smaller battery
packs because they don't have a great long distance EV range,
you add a lot more cycles to those battery packs
because of it, Like you are charging that thing from

(01:20:59):
eighty to twenty far more frequently than you are a
big battery on an EV. So the high voltage battery
needs to be replaced far sooner than the typical EV battery.
And you still have oil, you still have a transmission,

(01:21:20):
you still have head gaskets, you still have all of
the downsides of a combustion engine, while on paper, I
do see the appeal like that. The coolest thing about
the latest Prius to me, besides it just looking a
lot better than older Priuses, is the fact that they
can get forty miles of all electric range. You can

(01:21:40):
plug it in, and for a lot of my daily
driving that would mean not even touching the combustion engine.
Means it would be an ev for a lot of
its life. And then on the few instances in which
you need more range than forty miles, the Prius is
like over six hundred miles of range. Yeah, and then

(01:22:03):
you could refuel it at a gas pump very quickly.
So again, all the paper things, all the textpecs do
look very good if you don't care about performance, like me,
Because everyone did mention that it's very slow and sluggish.
It's not a performance vehicle, But I don't care about that.
I bought the slowest Tesla and I drive in chill mode.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
But like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
The fact that the high voltage battery would wear out
much much faster because I'd basically be using an entire
cycle every day, and now I have a combustion engine
to worry about too, And on those road trips, or
on those days where I need more than forty miles,
I would still have to be paying for gas. The

(01:22:49):
edge case, I think is more people who do extreme
miles and really need to shave off as much time
on a road trip as possible. Like I've done all
day road trips with a GASCAR and an EV, and
I know that the EV penalty switching from my Sonata
to my Model three is about two hours, So every

(01:23:10):
time I do an all day road trip, it adds
two hours to the overall drive. To me having a
high cycle life battery, much larger battery, and you know
you're not going to be killing it as quickly because
for one, it's LFP, but for two, driving forty miles
a day is not going to add one cycle to

(01:23:31):
the battery pack every day whereas it would in the Prius.
And I know that that Model three doesn't have a transmission,
it doesn't have head gaskets, it doesn't have a catalytic converter,
it doesn't have oil that needs to be changed, or carburetor.
You know all kinds of things that the combustion engine needs.

(01:23:52):
And I think what happens with me occasionally when I
start thinking about it, I see that Prius go by
and go, yeah, you know, I could make a really
good trip time with that is I've I've been with
an EV for so long that I'm forgetting all of
the downsides of the combustion engine. I'm forgetting. No, there's
still a lot of downsides involved with that. You're just

(01:24:15):
not factoring that in because you've driven an EV for
so long. So that's what I try to remind myself
when when I send out tweets like yeah, you know,
if I if you put a gun to my set,
put a gun to my head and said, Drew, you
have to buy a gas car, which would which would
you buy? Yeah, I'd probably say the Priest Prime because
for a lot of its life I wouldn't even need

(01:24:38):
to turn over the engine. I could just plug it
in from home and treat it like it's an EV.
I see the appeal to that, But once people start
bringing up think of the cycle life on a battery
pack that's small. Think about how gasoline can't just sit
in there forever it's bad for it. Think about the
oil changes. Think about how that combustion engine will age

(01:25:00):
still has a lot more moving parts involved, and priuses
are I mean not priuss, but hybrids in general are
just more complex. There's more things that can go wrong.
And as a guy who appreciates simple design and minimalism,
I'm much more of the all ev guy than I
am the let's try to make both work. It's like,

(01:25:24):
I think I would rather go super cheap used gas car.
If you're really trying to save money, you should go
way way lower price than what the prius is, which
I think starts around thirty grand. It's like, if you're
dropping thirty grand, you're so close to a long range
Model three. Anyway, just go all in, don't go half

(01:25:46):
in and half out, you know. So that yeah, that's
where my headspace is at at it. I think if
you're towing great distances, the RAM charge or what do
they call it, it's it's a hybrid, but they have
like a one hundred kilo hour battery pack and then

(01:26:07):
a gas generator to charge that battery pack when you
need more like six hundred seven hundred miles of range.
But we all know when towing it's going to be
more like three hundred miles. So I see the appeal
to that, But again I don't know if there's a
lot of profit to be made there because they haven't
made them yet and they still don't want to say
how much they cost. But there's, in my opinion, a

(01:26:29):
little bit of a market for hybrids. But the fact
that the Model Why has become the best selling car
in the world is to me an indicator that I
think we're ready to move on.

Speaker 2 (01:26:40):
So much to unpack there, but I'm going to try.
I took mental notes of of at least five things
that you said.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
I did think.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
Yeah, I did. I like it. No, that was great.
I don't know if you changed my mind or not.
I'll know after I'm done saying it, because I'm going
to digest it in lifetime. But the first thing is,
I didn't see the tweet. This thought came from me
this morning. Mike sent me a YouTube video of the
new refreshed the next Gen and hybrid Maverick.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Mavericks are cool. I don't think it's a plug in hybrid.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
Is I don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:27:16):
Yeah, I'm sure it's just a passive hybrid.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
But okay, so, but my thought of hybrids, I started
thinking because they were touting the hybrid all wheel drive
and hybrid. I was like, I don't think about hybrids
at all. Ever, like I pretend I don't exist, And
so then I spent today thinking about hybrids. So not

(01:27:41):
that my it's not that I have pushback. I just
I guess it's relative where your money is going to go,
is what I think about the battery thing. You harped
on the battery thing, And this is a real question.
To replace a battery in a Prius since this one
we're using, is that expense stiff? I don't know what
the cost of a battery for a pres is.

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
It's I'm sure it's cheaper than replacing the battery and
a Tesla, obviously because the battery is a tenth of
the size, But I think it's more the labor. That's
the sure expensive parts.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
We haven't had.

Speaker 1 (01:28:15):
A battery itself is cheaper, but the process of getting
it out and getting a new one in is more complex.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
Anything anything mechanical is going to that's that's what's going
to hit your pockets, is the work on it, right,
we we haven't seen a situation with Tesla's having the
battery is so bad that like it's unusable now for
the most part, like.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
There's a few. There's a few, but it's like tends
to happen with the lower battery options.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
So where I go with that is when it comes
to the life cycle of a battery and getting it replaced.
I don't know of a situation right now with plug
in hybrids that this has become a problem yet, And
specifically I've been paying attention to that of the the

(01:29:12):
vovls and now Toyota. I'm trying to see what is
what can you expect the lifespan of not the engine,
but then of the battery before they ask to get replaced,
and how does that factor into the cost. Then at
that point, there is one thing too, moving parts and

(01:29:35):
having to inevitably address I my cat converter for an
old car that I had was my biggest problem, the
most expensive fix. I spent like over six hundred dollars
just on the part alone. It was very annoying because
there was an older car, but I was like, I mean,
I knew what it was and Tesla's wen't really a
thing yet. But when I when I think about things

(01:29:59):
going out inevitably, I feel I don't know when it's
going to happen to us. But inevitably, we're gonna have
electrical issues with our test less. I don't know what
will be. I had an issue with my window and
it got thank god, it got resolved as quickly as
it did. And I had an issue with my my

(01:30:25):
my battery underneath behind the back passenger in the back seats.
I had an issue about that. Remember I couldn't cool
my car down anymore. And so I opened that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Answer your question from earlier. I looked it up. In
most PREUS battery replacements range between two thousand and four
thousand dollars. Okay, so it's not, you know, game changing prices. No,
I mean it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
Six hundred dollars is a lot like that? I'm not
I'm not going to undermine, Like that's that's money, that's
your your I hope you have. If people have a
thousand dollars saved, you're ready over your your emergency savings.
So like that's a lot of money. My My overall
takeaway with like with maintenance and thinking of like moving
parts and stuff like that when it comes to the

(01:31:12):
mechanical elements of a of an ice vehicle instead of
electric is that we're just you're just moving like more
cars have become more electrical and less mechanical, and I
know I remember the situation actually distinctively that I had
a friend who had a super outback and it's more electrical,
and the thing gave out and it cost him so

(01:31:34):
much more to get that fixed. Uh. Specifically, he's a mechanic.
He works for Volvo or voltavag excuse me, and he
tells me all the time. He is like, dude, don't
get it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Don't get an outback.

Speaker 2 (01:31:48):
I'm like, okay, why. He's like, they are so much
more expensive because there's more electrical, the more electrical stuff
that's part of the components of the vehicle, it's more
difficult to work on and we have to take our time,
and it's just it's gonna He's like, I I'd rather
be working on a Ford or a Chevy any day
of the week over working on this this this outback.

(01:32:10):
It's it's it's annoying, but it's part of what it's
and more cars are going towards that way. And I
think about just if we're talking about maintenance and upkeep,
I don't know if I'm going to worry too much
about do I want it to be mechanical or do

(01:32:30):
I want it to be electrical just period, because it's
when the when we when we had to cross that bridge.
It has to get resolved regardless. My thing that I
actually then not worry about is not the upkeep of
it and talking about, uh, we'll use the new priests
that you tweet it. I I wouldn't buy a new

(01:32:55):
anything for vehicles really anymore. You were right that one
thing I one hundred percent agree with you on the
back end of what you were saying is like thirty grand.
I just na, man, if you're buying thirty grand on
anything that I think I would just go towards an
EV because in my brain going back to the whole
abtar thing, like I would put an EV up there

(01:33:19):
as a premium because it's more simplistic and I think
more stylish and more desirable.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
They're usually quiet or yeah, moll faster.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
There's just efficient. Like going back to efficiency too, the
thing that I was thinking about hybrids is that like
maybe I'm just I'm disregarding this whole efficiency thing when
it comes to range with that the cost element to it.

(01:33:54):
I I wouldn't drop new money. I wouldn't recommend dropping
new money like thirty grand on a hybrid or a
gas vehicle. But but the only reason why I was like,

(01:34:15):
why have I not been thinking about hybrids? I fear
as a industry we're not moving to evs quicker than
I initially thought we were.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
I say that too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:28):
Because of that, I feel the most appropriate stop gap
for a used vehicle would be a hybrid over a
gas vehicle, strictly on the distance element of it, because
my brain, going back to the old ways of vehicles

(01:34:48):
is well, how many miles to the gallon is the
great question? What's the projected miles to the gallon? And
hybrids have always, you know, caught my attention when it
comes to distance. And I feel personally that if we're
not going to get to the ev utopia that we

(01:35:11):
all kind of what would like to see anytime soon.
And I don't even think it's gonna happen in by
twenty thirty or twenty thirty five anymore. Like I actually
think that's gonna take a lot longer. I would think
that maybe a good alternative for anybody is to buy
a used good hybrid over a gas vehicle. Now with that,

(01:35:37):
my last note is if the gas vehicle only costs, like,
maybe what's the realistic number by the end of the
year ten thousand five thou I don't know, sure, then
then stretch your dollar as best as you can, absolutely,
and then drive that to the ground for as long
as you can absolutely. But if hybrids aren't that far off,

(01:36:03):
I would much rather take my chances with the hybrid,
knowing that I can get better range and maybe even
those situations where it's like I can get around town
forty to fifty whatever the mileages of that future duration easily,
then I'll take my chance. I'll just write with that
for a little bit longer. And I'm thinking of somebody
who's not me, because I when I got my time,
I'm not doing I'm not going anywhere with a TV.

(01:36:24):
But I don't want to be the guy who's always
just saying, oh, good, ev good a TV, because I
feel like I'm sounding like a jackass when I say that,
not understanding the price elements that kind of go into
it when it comes to these purchases. But I believe
in it so much, and I'm like, Okay, then get
a hybrid. And I realized by this morning, I was like,
I haven't been talking about hybrids at all. Am I
disregarding them too much? Or I don't know so anyway,

(01:36:47):
that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
I think even as I was just looking up quickly
how much a hybrid battery costs, I went on Quora
because someone was debating replacing theirs, and then the responses
they were saying, sell it because hybrids tend to hold
their resale value more. So that would be my only
pushback is that typically hybrids are not going to be

(01:37:13):
on price parity with the used gas cars. They're going
to be more expensive because people know that they're more
efficient or have the option of not using the combustion engine.
And I looked a little bit on Marketplace, and yeah,
I didn't see crazy low prices on most hybrids, but
I'm sure it's lower than EVE. But I think it

(01:37:37):
is a bit more equally spaced between pure gas in EV,
which means not quite on an ultra budget. So I've
heard from others and I would happily be proven wrong
if people can find it. But most of the data
I've seen says that the premium you pay for a

(01:37:58):
hybrid won't pay for itself over the life of it's
because of the you've got two things to maintain now,
more like, whether it's mechanical or electrical. I tend to
just think everything in a car is going to go
wrong at some point. So the less parts, especially the

(01:38:18):
less moving parts, you have the better. So if you've
got a high voltage battery and a combustion engine, the
likelihood of something going wrong is now much higher. Whereas
that's one perk I guess of Tesla's engineering, as they
keep things very simple. There's not a lot to it.

(01:38:39):
You know, everything's kind of on that main screen. So
if the screen goes bad, yeah you're out of luck.
But hey, now at least you just replace one thing
and functionality is restored. So that's what I like about
to these is just the simplicity of how little moving
parts there are.

Speaker 2 (01:38:59):
Would you rather so or not? Would you rather? Is
it a fair assessment that your recommendation is get a
really good not for pricing, get a really good EV,
or get a really affordable gas vehicle. Those would be
one of those options. If you don't really have the
budget for it, get a really affordable gas vehicle. If

(01:39:20):
you have some money you've been saving up for something,
get a really good EV. It's one of those two.
Not get a master of one, not a jack of
all trades, and.

Speaker 1 (01:39:32):
Yeah, yeah, kind of that mentality. But I do think
that the EV transition is slower than both of us thought.
I just don't think it's a range issue, especially because
most people are not driving six hundred plus five hundred
plus miles a day. I think it's a behavioral education issue.

(01:39:54):
It's like people are too issue. I wouldn't if EV
prices weren't falling below gas vehicle prices.

Speaker 2 (01:40:05):
No, but what I mean, I don't even mean like that.
I mean, like God, I can't believe I have to
use this as a marker. Pre COVID. We you could
reasonably expect, if we're just talking new, you can reasonably
expect to pay fifteen thousand, maybe twenty thousand for a

(01:40:30):
really good brand new car, just car pre COVID, and
people well, okay, fine, but that's that was the marker set,
and then the use inventory would be you know, maybe
five or ten thousand or whatever. You know, like there
there was an expectation. A lot of people bought those cars,
still hold on to those cars, and now that they're

(01:40:52):
coming to a point where it's like it's time to
look at buying a new car, and now post COVID,
you know, inflation, and all.

Speaker 5 (01:41:00):
Thirty five thousand for the same like blowing their mind.

Speaker 2 (01:41:04):
I feel like it's more of a cost issue that
we're like, no, I'm gonna stick with the fifteen thousand
dollars older aryan I had. That's whatever, just fine, And okay,
so I got paid for gas and whatever, oil and
all that, but paid fifteen thousand and they're asking for
thirty five for the same thing now. But now as
an ev like, I feel like, not that the costs

(01:41:26):
are dropping, but I don't think I don't at least
the people who I've communicated with, I don't think they
realize how much more expensive everything has gotten over the
last four years.

Speaker 1 (01:41:40):
And that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):
They have not wrapped their mind around, like I can't
believe this is the new norm, regardless of whether it's
cheaper or more expensive than the comparison of whatever. Like
just the fact that like everything has gone up and
they're like whoa, And I think what's crazy is I
was telling them in twenty twenty one, twenty two, I
was like, dude, chip shortage, people like people want to
buy my car because they kept get one of their

(01:42:04):
own and they were like, yeah, but did It's just
a niche thing that I was like, it's every vehicle
needs a chip because every vehicle has electrical now, every
vehicle has a computer now in some way, shape or form.
It's just that's how it is. If you're going to
buy a new car or relatively new, it's that's what
you're dealing with. And especially when the shortage happened, then
it's like now used cars are getting snatched up, so

(01:42:25):
cause that to a skyrocket. So their expectation of what
they think their budget was pre COVID, let's say twenty eighteen,
twenty seventeen, that they I was willing to pay fifteen
thousand for that was their budget. Fifteen thousand ain't going
to get you anything of that caliber today. And I
think that's what people are struggling with and thus causing
a delay kind of all together, which also with manufacturing,

(01:42:48):
cars are sitting on the lots longer and then they
got to move on. Like it's a I've been studying
a little bit about like how are they moving inventories,
Like there's there's an up and flow of things, but
like there's price industry.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
Wide slow down. But the thing is that that should
affect new car sales period, which I believe it has.
I've heard that gas or electric dealers are having a
hard time lately moving inventory, which there's interest rates that
affect that, and there's you know, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:43:15):
How they try to get you zero percent financing if
you come with us, and people do anything to get
this thing off, this lemon off the lot.

Speaker 1 (01:43:23):
Yeah, but that's just what I mean by like, there's
a lot of reasons I think EV adoption isn't going
as quickly as we'd all like. But I don't think
it's a range thing, which is why I'm not really
giving hybrids much thought, because that's really what it is.
Is it's like, how do we give you the perks
of an EV but still give you the range of

(01:43:43):
a gas car. But Tesla's said for a while now
like Prius was the most traded in vehicle, Like a
lot of people were trading in higher range Priuses for Tesla's,
and I think it's it's not so much a range
as it is a charger. Not everybody can charge from home,
which is why I think, you know, vehicles like Aptera

(01:44:06):
would make a big impact of like what if the
vehicle can charge itself and actually has really good range
at a relatively low price, and even if you are
fast charging it, you can go a lot longer between
those charges, and even if you are home charging it,
it'll be much much cheaper than any other EV to charge.
So I don't think the advantages of evs have been

(01:44:27):
thoroughly explored, and brands like Aptera, Ortello and Ford is
even catching onto this too, are slowly starting to realize like, okay,
maybe getting batteries at scale to have a certain kill
of what hour rating is harder than we thought. We
need to lean into the smaller form factor so that

(01:44:48):
we can get lower prices in higher range and go, yeah,
it's all a self plug at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (01:44:56):
But no to say that that that's what I want
to see the iPhone mini guy wants to see many vehicles.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
What a jogger like the That's what Jim Farley I
think was saying in an interview recently, is that he
he straight up said in our combustion engine business, the
bigger the vehicle, the higher the margin, And with evs
it's the opposite. It's that's crazy. The smaller, the more
efficient they are, the better the margins are. So it's

(01:45:28):
cool to see like a big established automaker actually start
acknowledging that they do need to go smaller. They need
to develop more compact, more aerodynamic, less frontal area, you know,
more efficient evs so that they can secure better margins
and still hopefully preserve that practicality, which is ultimately what

(01:45:50):
excited me the most about Tello in the first place,
was like, evs are fundamentally different, and we need to
stop acting like we can just build the exact same
type of vehicles that we had before and just throw
batteries in them. In reality, it's a it's a radical
rethinking inside to out, which is what Aptera is showcasing, Like,

(01:46:11):
look what we can unlock when we really rethink the
way vehicles are built. And Tello similarly, it's like, yeah,
we can. We can deliver similar utility and functionality in
a fraction of the footprint. And that's that's why I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
So obsessed with the R three to be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:46:28):
Yeah, that's the R three is like, well it's the smallest,
it should be the cheapest rivian How.

Speaker 2 (01:46:36):
Dare you tease me for so long, show me, and
then I have to wait so long like that because
I'm so really.

Speaker 1 (01:46:46):
The R two because of the R.

Speaker 2 (01:46:49):
R three.

Speaker 1 (01:46:53):
It's really I was thinking about it like, oh yeah,
we have more storage space, and then I look at
the R three and I'm like, it's still five seats,
and then it's still a hatchback, it's still got a fronk,
it's still got space behind the second row. And I
was like, why do I need the R two exactly?
What's the advantage? And it's like, oh, well, you get
in the triangle on the back, you get this much

(01:47:15):
extra storage capacity. And I'm like, okay, when am I gonna?
I could just pop the glass on the R three.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
I think the R two is the exact same footprint
size of a model why. And that's actually good to
know because I I wouldn't want to go bigger than
a model why.

Speaker 1 (01:47:34):
Ever again, if anything, I'm all about, how do you
how do I get the same utility of a model
why in a smaller form?

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
Fact, yeah, that's called the model that's called the R
three R three exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:47:47):
Yeah. So that's why I'm like all about how small,
how efficient can you get these things because it's it
comes from an understanding that Americans made vehicles too big
and we need to unlearn and you much unlearn what
you have learned.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
Yeah, I there's a time and a place if you
want to you know, a measuring contests, so to say,
for your vehicles. Uh yeah, then throw your money at
your forwards raptors or whatever. Like I I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:48:19):
Want knowing that's that's gonna be the last people to
convert to evs. Yes, sure, they're going to be driving
gas vehicles for the longest and.

Speaker 2 (01:48:29):
You know, like much like Elon is still using gas
to launch his rockets. Like, there's a time and a place.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
And yeah, for that application, it makes far too much sense.
I would not recommend anybody by an electric truck if
they're trying to do long distance doing it's right right now.

Speaker 2 (01:48:45):
When the technology or the batteries and all all all
things with this synergy becomes better and more efficient, when
we can make the exact same case that you can
do exactly what you're doing with your gas truck towing
right here, but for better, longer, faster and cheaper, then

(01:49:05):
you can have that then on paper off paper and
all things in between it's like, all right, we can
make this thing basically obsolete.

Speaker 1 (01:49:14):
Now, Yeah, it'll take some time. I think we'll get there.
But naturally, because evs are so practical when small and efficient,
it makes sense as to why that's going to be
the last chapter, because we just don't have the price
per kilo a hour or the wait per kilo hour
to the point where it needs to be in order

(01:49:35):
for a practical long distance towing electric truck that can
recharge really quickly is out there. We don't have the
charging infrastructure either, So it's like all these things will
come with scale and time. But it's definitely not the
first thing you do. It's it's very much the last
thing you tackle. So the day I'm towing something, I

(01:49:57):
can make this. Yeah, I'll make this truck right now.

Speaker 2 (01:50:01):
The day I'm towing something is when I have a
tiny home attached to it and I no manning it.
That's when I'll That's when I think I'll be ready
to tow untill them Like I'm I'm glad I'm not
on that wait list because I don't know what I
need a toe, but I would tow a tiny home
for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:50:16):
There you go. I hate towing. I've done it. I
had to do it a lot at my old job.
It's so annoying. It's how you have to back up,
and how you have to be aware, and the hookups
of the trailers and get the wheels. It's just I've
not found a towing experience I'm happy with. Guess or let.

Speaker 2 (01:50:36):
Yeah, I had a toe.

Speaker 1 (01:50:39):
You avoiding if at all possible.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
Yeah, the uhau thing was enough, and I was going
cross country back in twenty twelve. I'm done. No, I'm never.

Speaker 1 (01:50:51):
Doing trying to fit all this in the car, can
we Let's let's not drag something out the back.

Speaker 2 (01:50:58):
It's kind of That's how I was when I moved
cross country the very first time in two thousand and eight.
I put everything in the car and I filled it
to the brim, and I said, whatever doesn't fit is
not coming. And now I realized that was my first
experience and exposure to what we would then call minimalism.

Speaker 1 (01:51:14):
I was like, all right, what I want, that'll do it?
All right, Well, thanks for your time, we'll catch you
all next week. Take care, bye bye

All Episodes

Ep. 188 - Is Aptera Undervalued?

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

Crime Junkie

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 188 - Is Aptera Undervalued?