Ep. 203 - Welcome Back

Drew and Mike catch up on the past year of EV news!

Published: 7-28-2025, Recorded: 7-25-2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, that was a quick little break. I think we're done.
I think we're back. What year is it? What did
we miss since last time? Welcome back everybody. It's been
seven months out a year. It was November. I think
it was a November and now it's July. Sorry Randy

(00:21):
Snutt here it was. This is kind of spur of
the moment. It's gonna ran for now. It's not Sage,
it's compass yellow. If the camera can't tell, it's so obviously. Uh,
we're still seeing each other outside of recording the podcast.
We're lying this is the first time I've seen him
in years. Anywhere's glasses as well? Wow, you're making the

(00:45):
glasses come on. No, So we we still hang out.
We're still catching up. But we just figured like, hey,
you know what, we had a we had a little
bit of time tonight between all of our busyness of
life and jobs and everything, a lot of projects, very
many projects going on, and then just decide, you know
what we're going to talk about EV's for a while.

(01:05):
We used to have an EV podcast. Why don't we
just record this one? So it's very spur of the moment.
But have you been for that.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
I've been good, I mean compared to your experience. My
wife's been doing pretty well this year.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah, you've had the first why ever basically yeah, oh yeah,
I feel like you were the first customer delivery. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
We still haven't talked about what number it is, because
the Cereal bras are right there still like, was it
first one undred and fifty I think his wife's said
in the pastor.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, which a bunch of our employee deliveries. No, that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
No, it's still doing great, no issues. I've had worse
service center experience than you. So all the videos that
you make on.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Channel, you're not complaining about it. I'm not on social
media really either. Oh we can, we can screw him
over because he's not going to complain. No.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
The most recent one was I finally got a chip
in the windshield. Oh and so I immediately put glueing in.
I immediately call up Tessel Insurance and then schedule the
service visit and all that, and in the messages, they're like, Okay,
it'll be like one hundred and forty dollars, and I'm like, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Let me confirm with you. This is for a new windshield, right,
because I put glue in, They're like, yes, it's for
a new windshield. They confirmed him, like cool, I've never
heard of one hundred and forty one dollars. Give you
the cost estimate thing? Yeah, and you hit approved yes, Wow, okay.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Because I confirmed is this for a new I'm not
going to like have them glue whatever I glued.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
You might need a lawyer. You might be onto something there. Maybe.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
So, But when I went and they said we're not
gonna honor this.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Because obviously that's very cheap for a Winch shield. One
hundred and forty one dollars for a windshield, I would
take that immediately. That's what I That's what I did. Doo.
I'm like sure, and you doubled down on it. Wow. Yeah,
so that's there. They were like nah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
They pretty much said nah because they're like, oh, I
thought we were putting glue in this, but you said
you already put glue in it. It's like, what was
this forum like, it's for a new windshield and we
never agree to that.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
I'm like, it's right here on your end. You're like, oh,
that was our mistake. We're not going to honor that.
Do you want a new windshield.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
It's gonna cost you around, like I think it's they
quoted like nine hundred dollars or something like that, and
I'm like, no, I'm just going to drive home. And
it was a little bit inconvenient because the wife had
to drive across town to come pick me up for
the service thing, but because they can't. Very frustrated. Yeah,
so that was not fun. Yeah, But otherwise car has

(03:40):
been fine. There hasn't been any other issues with it. Good, thankfully.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
And you supercharged a lot, right, I supercharge it at
least twice a week. Wow. So that's not a March
twenty twenty battery pack. It was made before March twenty
twenty probably, so even older than that. So it's over
five years old.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Because I believe the car was made in February is
what it says on the doorframe, right, Okay, And so
it was mostly that battery is probably at least manufactured
in end of twenty or twenty nineteen. Wow, I would think,
unless they really made it right up to the end.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
So it's got quite a calendar life on superchargers and everything. Yeah,
it hasn't had I mean, you're catching up to me
with the three in terms of mileage.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
But I think I passed You've probably passed me at
this point because I think I'm aout like seventy eight,
seventy nine.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh yeah, so we're at eighty three thousand, okay three
and then the Whys that just hit seventy five. Oh nice.
So in a sense, it's almost.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
The truck's kind of doing as well, because we got
not too long after the Y and it's around like
I think fifty or sixty thousand miles. But it's a truck.
It's not supposed to be doing too much, even though
we did like a road trip with it. It's meant
to be the work truck of when we need to
haul stuff or toe stuff.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
It's not meant to use it.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yeah, it's not meant to be the daily driver like
the Why, even though it is used like the drip
day the driver.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
For life because it's the only other. Yeah, how else
do we get around? You need? We're very carcentric here,
that's fair? Well man, Okay, Well, now everyone's in the loop.
I guess I never mentioned that on the podcast. We
have a model hy.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Now to see for those that only exclusively listen to
the podcast, haven't caught up. We're really confused why you're
talking about why. Yeah, so I guess for those who
aren't in the loop, I guess.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
You've got a y and used for pretty cheap white.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
On white, which I'm still baffled by that you got
another white interior, white exterior car that I just I.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Couldn't deal with that it's.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Too bright on the eyes. And then also I feel
like I could get really dirty real quick.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
At least for me, it's it's a valid concern. Although
I will say this one was very much more Luis's
decision over mine. Gotcha. It was like, Okay, you wanted
the three, you got the three. I want this one
she want. She loved the white interior, exterior, She wanted
the toe hitch and it had one. She wanted all
wheel drive. I've even had acceleration boost. She did not

(06:10):
want that, but it has it. And even the guy
we got it from botty years. So we are the
third nice owners. So that benefits Tesla the least, which
we're okay with. Yeah, you have to preface that, it's like,
why did you buy it? I see on the back

(06:30):
of Tesla's these days. By the way, that's saying not before,
or I don't. I don't like Elon either, and I
don't like what he's done. But I don't get the
sticker thing either. I just to me, that just screams fear.
It just screams, don't vandalize my car. So anyways, that's
gonna say. If someone's gonna vandalize your personal property because

(06:54):
they don't like to see you, I don't think the
sticker is going to make up. Oh okay, it's they're
one of us, or they say I've seen this protest
where the sign says sell your Tesla, and I'm always
like to who, and then you'll be mad at them.
I don't. I don't see how that trail ends. It's

(07:14):
just this endless you sell it and then you sell
it until there's just everyone trying to sell them and
no one buying them. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
It'sry happening right now with the surplus of Tesla's on
dealership lots or whatever.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
I will say, if you're not worried about the vandalism,
there are some great deals now on used Tesla's, Like, uh,
it's definitely shot. The depreciation increased, the depreciation, what's the
it's fostered a very great market in the customer. I
just mean, my three has lost so much value. Yeah,

(07:49):
but I had no intention on selling it, so it
doesn't really make a difference to me. That's what always
makes me laugh when someone's like, oh, evs depreciating value
so much. I'm like, I have no intention on selling
it unless I'm just really annoyed by the product, and
then I'll move on to something else that's an evy
that I'm watched, and I don't care whether it's going

(08:10):
to depreciate or not, because I'm not in it for
reselling it, I know for using it. Just to be clear,
you should never buy a car as a way to
store value or.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Worth unless I've some arguments about Like the cyber Trek,
I think makes sense to me because it's so polarizing,
and who knows how long Tesla will make it or
at least try it.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
But the same thing happened with the loreon right is
that not too many people were buying at first because
they're like, what the heck is this thing? And then
back to the Future made it a little bit more
popular and it became an icon of its era. And
so now when you see them on the road one
it's striking because it's just so different. It is different,
and you see that with like a bunch of other

(08:54):
But still that's going to take a while. It's not present.
Oh no, no, no, no, no no. This is long game.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
And if I don't even know if the cyber truck
will get the same level of exclusive treatment as Deloyon,
but even if it did, we're talking ten twenty years.
What does the battery pack look like it and how's
the battery And also compare that to just throwing money
in mutual funds in the stock market and how that
performs after twenty years. That's a lot more. That's less

(09:22):
of a bet. That's just more of a stable, consistent
like kind of funny. It's like the car thing. You
don't really know what's going to happen to it. It depends.
But right, yeah, So I still love the three and
I will say it's buying the Y and road tripping
and the Y has made me really appreciate the LFP
battery because I see, I didn't realize how great the

(09:45):
charge curve was because that was the only tesla we had.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
We got pretty far pretty quickly in that three when we.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Just oh yeah the road trip, yes year. Yeah, I
just didn't think anything of it. I just thought, oh, yeah,
it's a test that you plug it in and it supercharges.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
But I mean you can check on better route plane. Right,
It's like the difference is minutes. It's trivial.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
But I honestly think compared to the why the three
might road trip faster just because of how deep it
holds current into the pack, especially at those higher states
of charge. It'll keep pulling. It'll be fifty kilowatts at
ninety five percent. What's the range of your three right now?
I think it's too I guess the estimated of whatever

(10:25):
the computer thinks it is. It's too fifty something. But okay,
why it's probably gonna dip down to that eventually. Yeah,
if you can. It definitely did win.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
The battery does, because I can definitely tell if mine,
I'm charging it twice a week and I'm not driving
super far.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
And you probably don't charge the full No, I charge
to like eighty or something because it gets so slow
above eighty.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Oh yeah, there's many times that like it's a Thursday, yeah,
and I'm getting to work early, and it's like Okay,
I could probably stop at the supercharging nearby. Yeah, and
so I'm at like fifty percent, right, and so I'm
not gonna get a fast charge at fifty percent, And
to get from fifty to eighty, it's gonna take the
same amount of time that Wolf taken if I went

(11:05):
from like twenty.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
To eighty probably preconditioning.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, and so it's pretty much the same amount of
time that I already spent like two days prior, but
now it's less. But anyways, my why is like probably
around like two hundred and eighty miles of estimated range
right now. I would be surprised if because it's a
little bit lower to like two seventies. And sure i'd
slightly envy that LFP charging rate that you talk about

(11:31):
because it's with my why. It's like, well, even at
the V three's or V four's, I'm still just sitting there.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
I feel like a Chevy Bolt. Right. I've also noticed
we don't even need to precondition the LFP much. Sometimes
will I don't know what you call it, plug it
in raw. It's had no time to warm up, just
it'll immediately get peak speed. And I was like, oh wow,
maybe it's just because it's a warm climate where we live.

(11:58):
But that's a clip, But no, it's I'm very thankful
for that pack, and I like not thinking about eighty
versus one hundred and now I'm paranoid with the y
battery because I'm just like, this will probably go bad
again in our ownership. Yeah, because it's a refurbished pack,
refurbished now and it's a twenty one. I hope they

(12:20):
put in a better pack, but I don't really know.
We'll never really know until it goes bad. But I
would think if it's refurbished, they've probably checked the seals.
I would hope so, but it is Tesla, so because
there's certainty. But yeah, we'll see. I'm still glad we
bought it. I don't regret it, just because it was
such a good deal. And even with pack replacement, is

(12:44):
hard to find something that price that would be that
good at road tripping. Sure, it's changing slowly over time
as more evs are Lots more EV's have adopted NAC
since our last podcast. Yeah, natively, we haven't really been
high well, we haven't been doing the podcast, so we
can't really hid they've got time.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
I mean, it still takes time for them too, especially
with the crazy world that we live in right now
where evs aren't really being incentivized anymore. Yeah, there's a
lot less drive to really get progress going on what
plug type to choose and how to modify where that
port is on the vehicle to get the best user experience.

Speaker 1 (13:29):
All that. It's more of an afterthought now. That definitely
seems to have been more complicated than I thought. I
thought everyone's going to switch to NAX and hopefully they
could move the port to be in a more convenient
and a lot of companies have not moved it, even
though they've switched a NAX. No even was it. The
five on five is still on the back right, kept

(13:50):
it in the same place.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
The six or EV six has it on the back left,
which is nice.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
That's right, they moved it. Yeah, I don't know if
it's NAXT yet, but the fourth Okay, I saw it. Cool.
I was like, thank you, someone did it.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
I did see I told you this earlier, so don't
act too surprised. I did see Ionic nine yesterday and
that was really cool.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah. It's very unique looking.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, I mean, if we could put up maybe if
we do any editing on this podcast, but I.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Didn't see how long we what I'll find it.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
Yeah, but it it was right next to a E
golf or just a regular VW golf, And it didn't
actually look as big as maybe some of the pictures
show or the videos or reviews that you've seen of.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
The Ionic nine.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
It didn't look as big as you'd expect compared to
like a golf, which I was slightly surprised by. But
it slopes a lot, I think off the back. Yeah,
it's almost like a minivan in terms of shape, and
then having the logo kind of hidden behind the glass.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Was a little bit weird. But otherwise it looks facious though.
It looks like a very roomy three row which are
doing well a m and it's on that shared platform
with the EV nine, So I think they rightfully did
not just carbon cut copy than nine.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
No, Hyundai and Kia are really killing it in terms
of here's what this brand offers and here's what that
brand offers, right, And they're not eating the lunch of
each other too much. No, it's more of just if
you want the Kia feel, you get that. But if
you want a little bit more of a Hyundai. Feel
you go for that?

Speaker 1 (15:25):
Yeah, and added more broad They went kind of boxy
and bubbly. Yeah. It was like or at least.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
My buddy who had a Veloster, which is kind of
the same look as the Ionic five. He loved the Veloster,
but he felt it was time to get a new
vehicle after driving it for so long. And what do
you go for Theonic five? Yeah, because it looks very similar.
It's an av oh, yeah, and so there's that comfort

(15:52):
of I want something that had the same usability and
shape and look as what I had before.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, but an ev and they're pretty spacious. The Ionic
five and pictures looks smaller than we test drove one.
I think like that was four years ago. A co
workers got a new one with nacks and everything, and
you let me play around with it. But yeah, they
for white vessels. Okay, we got the black. They got

(16:19):
the black beszels from the six. Yeah. And the color
they do a Matte paint option from the factory. Do
you get Matt green or Matt Okay, I think it's green.
It's I like the green. It's kind of a mix.
It's not super green, but it's beautiful. I got curious,
and I was kind of just configuring them. Yeah, and
then I looked at the five N or whatever.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
I'm like, this is cool, but they kill all the
options on the yeah, and also does that have those
best range?

Speaker 1 (16:46):
But of course I think it was the new ev
you know, the Ionic six N. Oh.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, definitely has a lot more things that I'm very excited.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
But I don't know if you way more. I did
watch some reviews.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, my favorite thing from them, which if listeners of
yours don't know, it's got I forget who described it
as this.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
I think it was the the straight Pipe Skies, but
they described it as one pedal drifting, I think, which
is like I never thought about that as like a thing.
I mean, like drifting is kind of that way.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
It's like you initiate it and then pretty much you're
just feathering the throttle at that point and then managing
it with the steering wheel. But the Ony six N
has a mode of pretty much just one pedal drifting
and you just initiate it in the directions that it
gives you, and then you're just drifted in this cute
little I mean I call it cute. My wife hates

(17:42):
the design. She thinks it's awful.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
It's controversy. I know a lot of people hate it,
but I really like it. I think it's cool. It's
the magic mouse of the road. It is. I really
like the refresh, the facelift one.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
The one with the line. Yeah, the modern ones. Yeah, Like,
I don't know how else you could change it. But
I've seen a lot of Ionic sixes. In the old design.
I think the headlights are a little too bubbly. It
got the glow up that I could describe as like
the models glow up. Yeah, right, the models had the
guppy right front facia, the big and then it's looking

(18:16):
I think it was about like three or four years
in or something like that.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, around twenty seventeen. Yeah, they then changed it to
the uh yeah, it was it flat face. Flat face
is probably I don't know where killed it, but no.
I coworker mine didn't like the facelifts, so we were
kind of arguing about it. But that's all right. Then
just getting used one, Yeah, there you go. You got
to get one that's deppreciated in value. Yeah, I will
say I've I've watched a lot of owners of views

(18:40):
and I see what people meant. When I played around
with Ionic five, I didn't get a ton of time,
but in my limited time available, their software needs a
complete overhauled and it sounds like they are doing that.
I don't know if you've seen, but there's some mock
ups Hyundai and kir showing of like they're doing a
full OS redesign, and it looks very Tesla rivian esque.

(19:06):
It's it's very it doesn't look it doesn't look original,
But I'm okay with that. It doesn't need to be
It doesn't need to be exactly. It needs to be
usable and not familiar aggravating but also familiar. Yeah, but yeah,
the way it is now, I was like, oh, this
would be frustrated every time you touch the screen. It
has to be and it's not well laid out. I

(19:26):
was just looking for basic data. I was like, I
wonder what the efficiency's like and you have to go
through so many people. Well that was the problem with
was it the original five and oh I'm blanking out?
Sorry the five? N Oh?

Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah, everyone was harp enneyt because like, the the fact
that you can simulate shifting is an interesting gimmick for it.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Sure, and a lot of people love that.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
I mean, I love it too, even though it's doing
nothing but actually hurting your efficiency. It doesn't have the
best range either, but it gives you something that evs
don't really give in terms of that simulated feel. But
it's hidden behind so many buttons too, and so to engage,
like I mean with the six end, it probably is
the same issue of just trying to get to the

(20:13):
one pedal drifting mode yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Bepppppep and waiting for men us to load and all that.
I could even see in a boardroom meeting why they
thought that was a good idea. I could see them think, like, oh,
you're you're tapping it while driving. You need to know
that you actually tap.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Well, that's what a lot of people say, is like
I'm using a screen. Maybe is great and versatile, but
if you're driving, you need to know what you're pressing.
Where a lot of people argue with buttons, you.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Just know where it is. It's not changing its location.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
And so Hundai thought, well, we make it beep so
the user knows, Okay, you've made a selection, you go
on to the next I could.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
See how they came to that conclusion, but I still
don't think it's the right decision, right. I would rather
just look cleaner and just rip off what the startups
have done. I don't think you need.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
To just rip off what Rivian's doing because VW is
paying millions of dollars a year too.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Oh's and so much of everything else Hyundai and Kia
have done is great. They nailed that. It's the higher
voltage architecture. They've got great charge curves. The designs are cool,
to be fair, not the best on the Tesla network
because no less, they got the proper port proper port placement,
well proper placement.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
But I'm saying charging curves in general, oh yeah, because
it is a fact of the matter that when they
switched over the ON five from CCS to NAX the
charging curve do you get a hit?

Speaker 1 (21:36):
Right? But well it's uh. With V three's specifically, I
think you may gotcha right because they max at like
one twenty kilowad instead of the two twenty that they
could do. But interesting test Jordan did from out of
spec was they plugged in a Model Y and an
Ionic five at a V three supercharger at the same
they were both at ten percent. Even though yes, the

(22:00):
why got the two fifty kill a wat for a
few seconds. They both hit eighty percent at the same time,
so it was like, okay, you can use the superchargers
with the ionic, but just don't do the like five
minute charges. Do the deep charge get to eighty and
then it's about the same amount of time as it
Tesla would charge. It's almost like what that channel found

(22:23):
when they were was it there comparing trucks going cross country? Yeah,
is was.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I think the F one fifty didn't really do too well,
but the it was it the Silverado Silverado one it
did great even though that it's got a big battery
and it takes a while to fill up. It's charging
curve was phenomenal for what it needed to do for
a quote unquote King of ball run.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
And the funny thing was that the cyber truck was
a close second, but they were stopping like constantly. They
would unplug it thirty oh gee, because that's where they
got most of their speed. They so they're They're name
of the game in that road trip was charge until
you have enough range to get to the next charger,

(23:07):
even if that meant thirty percent or thirty five percent,
because that's when it charged. The quickest is right when
you plugged in, and then after five minutes it would
taper down and be like, okay, we're losing. Solorado could
do those long stretches, right.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
That's something that I've found with my experience after five
years with the y uh huh is I don't.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I mean it's a fact in Myra TVs.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
You're gonna have to stop a little bit more in
charge and you're gonna have to sit there for a
little bit. Yeah, And if you can minimize the amount
of stops, even if they're long stops, it's a lot
more stomachable. Yeah, I think than having to stop like
three or four times, because it makes you feel like
it's got no range. Yeah, and that you're just having
to keep on stopping. And I would like, even if
it's the same amount of duration in the trip, sure,

(23:52):
between having to stop multiple times to get to your
destination versus stopping maybe once or twice to get to
the destination, fewer stops, I'd rather after your stop.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, that's fair. And that comes up with us too.
It's like usually when you need to use the restroom
or eat or something, you're like the cars beeping at me, like, hey,
you have en up range to continue, and we're like, eh,
we'll wait. We'll just let it charge up a bit more.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
No, there's been many times that we've gone to Tahoe
and that's stopping. Was that the Roseville area or something
like that, Like, it's great because it's nearly halfway to
Tahoe and so pretty much we just stop there, get
some sandwiches in the area, and go to the bathroom
as well.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
It's a great stop.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, and we don't have to like we're not just
sitting there waiting for it to be done. We're doing
other things, so you're occupying your time. The stopping becomes
more of the trip, which some people don't like. They
like to go from point to point B without stopping.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
And I've done that same in my gas car. I
don't find it more enjoyable, but it is a choice. No.
I was mentioning this to some family when.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
I visited them up north, like in the Oregon area,
and I used to be able to go for like
four or five hours about having used the bathroom. And
this was like with my Hanta Civic they owned, Yeah,
and like it was great when I was young. Now
I'm old, yeah, it's like I need to stop, I
need to stretch, I need to get some food to me,

(25:16):
go to the bathroom.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
So and I found myself much more exhausted at the destination.
Interesting when I didn't stop, Like my drive to my
parents' place, it was like twelve hours of driving and
we stopped once for ten minutes over the course of
twelve hours, and it was like, yeah, we made good time,
but I was it drains it head. I was like, oh,

(25:37):
and I even though the EV road trip takes longer,
it's far more enjoyable to me. It becomes more of
an adventure. Yeah, you can explore a little bit at
your stops.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
And yeah, or I mean even if you're not exploring,
you're just sitting around looking around.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, like you're not. I don't feel as rushed as
a gas pump. A gas pump is like we got
you know, four minutes for it to fill up, and
then we got a you know, maybe park and get something.
But still you got to move the car and you gotta, yeah,
to fill up the track the other day.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
And it's got a big gas tank as well, so
it's just cleaning the windows. I'm like, oh, this is
kind of nice having like the convenience of like being
able to clean the windows where at like evy chargers,
you don't really have that unless you have a spray
bottle on A couple of.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Them I've found have the the little wiper. Yeah with that,
Oh that's nice. I think Kettleman City had some, and
there was one in uh Anderson. I think that we
went to. It's pretty big. That's one thing, you know.
I have my issues with Tesla, but they know how
to build a big station. They just opened one.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
I was gonna say the building they've either built they
set a record the most recent one and Lost.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Hills I think it. Yeah, it's like one hundred and
sixty stalls.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
That whole area between Lost Hills and past Kettleman.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
I forget nuts. Was it a Highland ranch or something
like that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, was it like there's like I think three or
four hundred stalls combined in was it like maybe a
forty mile stretch or something?

Speaker 1 (27:07):
And I think there's ten or twelve that are trailer friendly, yeah,
which is awesome.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
No, there's one up in a oh what is it
a not Dublin but ranch one? No, So it's a
long I five I forget the location, but they know, yeah,
drive so many times.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
No, but they've expanded it.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
From like eight stalls right next to a Burger King
if you guys know where that is. Yeah, some Burger
King and I five or ever. But they expanded from
eight stalls of like the V two s h yeah,
to like a solar cover that sounds like the Harris
Ranch one. It's not the Harris Ranch one because I
know the hair. I've been to the Harris Ranch one
before when they were building it out, because yeah, I

(27:54):
think that's the new.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like what they're doing on I five, at least in.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
California is just like Big so are covering with like
I don't know about ten. I think trailer friendly chargers, yeah,
maybe maximum or whatever.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
And then a whole ton of V four's everywhere. That's great.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
And yeah, when I was there, they had there's a
cyber truck right next to Arabian, right next to a
couple Model threes, and I think I was the only model.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
It's funny.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
See, Yeah, a cyber truck next to Arabian supercharger.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
There were a lot of lightnings on my last road
trip up north. Several times where there was a stall
open and the Lightning couldn't charge because it was early
one stall in his port is in the wrong place. Yeah.
I was like, I'm literally witnessing that scenario we talked about.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
It was like, oh no, I've had that many times
at the riper charger nearby my work, where it's an
Equinox or an F one fifty that goes in and
the ports on the wrong or the quote unquote wrong side.
It's the non optimal side. I think it's maybe a
more fair point to put.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, hopefully the V fours.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yeah, the thing is like that's now the new standards
of the V four. But like you can't, like in
many places here they're not going to switch up the
V twos and V three's to V four. It doesn't
make sense financially.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Well, the V twos don't even work with non Tesla no,
but even they'll still try though. I've discovered there's a
V two in my town that I've had to explain
to I think three different EV people that show up
with their adapter. There was an e Tron and there
was a Rivian and I was like, oh, I mean,
I'm so sorry, and I have to come up to
them and be like, hey, I'm not trying to scare you,

(29:38):
but this is a V two. It doesn't charge anything
that's not a Tesla. They were like what, I'm pretty
sure they get the adapter and just go on Google
Maps and play it in supercharger. So they're like, oh,
there's one I can charge there, right, And.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
It's like I watched a guy with his Rivian and
an adapter that he brought. Yeah, go to a V
four which already has an adapter built in or ever
or magic doc and uh, they're kind of finicky. I
might use yeah to be fair, but he was having
a tough time. Yeah, and he was also taking up
an extra stall even though the cable was long enough. Yeah,

(30:11):
he was still still still taking up an extra stall
because he was taking the adjacent Wonder.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Hopefully if it got super busy, someone would explain that. Yeah.
Thankfully it wasn't too busy at the time. But he
was having a tough time.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
So I think there needs to be a little bit
more education on the legacy or I guess non tesla
front for those that are using super tras.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
It's an adjustment for sure. Yeah, I mean it's a
learning curve as well, yeah, how do you feel about
the EV industry since our last show? That's something you
wanted to do.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
What's funny is me and Randy had that same conversation
on his little yeah, his NeXT's podcast slash Channel or whatever,
and uh, he posed the question to me of like,
is do you feel like we're growing as an industry
for evs or are we stifling and all that? And
I think my answer is still the same, is that

(31:02):
I still think we're growing.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
I still think there's a lot of options out there
for people. You just got to look at what you
kind of want or what fits your lifestyle or just
go put your butt in the seat and try it out.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Yeah, I would. I know there's a lot of negativity
surrounding the text credit going away and the you know,
oil subsidies not going away and all that. I do
still think if I was in the market for an
EV's honestly never been better. There's more options than there's
ever been, and there's cheaper good options there than there's

(31:35):
ever been. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
So a lot of people trade in their threes for
something else because of geopolitical reasons orrever and that's all right,
because then that's A three.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
People love their Equinoxes and oh my gosh, there's so
many on the road these days, and the ev nines.
I see a bunch of them too. Those toaster boxes
are everywhere, yep, like very popular. People like their big SUVs.
And if you don't care about what brand it is,
then you can get Model threes now for very cheap. Yeah,
if you do care. Econoxes or uh, I think fives

(32:04):
are not. The have gotten extremely the was it the
Honda prologue prologue. I'm seeing a bunch of those as well.
I don't really get it, but I think there are
two bleases, is what it is. The lease is dirt cheap.
I think I got an ad recently that ID four's
you can at least for one hundred and thirty bucks. Yep,
they've brought it down as well. That's amazing. Those are

(32:24):
great cars too, They're not bad at all. I still
haven't driven one. They're fun. You should try one, just
for the turning circle. It blew my mind. Yeah, it's
telling rainder.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Still I still haven't gone into it was an ex thirty.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Volvo I've been meaning.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
So Yeah, there's a whole bunch here and there's actually
one of my favorite color, which is because I like
these weird colors, bright yellow. They have a bright I
forget what I think. It's like mass yellow is what
they call it.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
I like the EX thirty a lot. I looked into
it a bit.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, Unfortunately they're having a lot of trouble with the
EX ninety with software on the big vertical screen.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Did you see the lighter on the things? Oh, the
little hat like they were frying smartphone cameras. Oh my gosh,
like not even that far away like in the car
or someone else's. If you're filming an EX ninety with
the light OAR sensor on, you point the lens at
the light R and you're like pretty close to the car.
You don't have to like hold the phone right over

(33:19):
the sensor. But like, just imagine if you were in
a on the sidewalk and an EX ninety kind of
parallel parked and you were filming, it would leave burning
marks on the camera. Wow. I was like, I mean,
I'm sure it's safe, but that's safe for the driver. Oh,
they have no clue what's going on. It's a little

(33:40):
interesting to me that there's a sensor that can do that,
and that's beaming into people. Yeah, the human bodies terrible.
I just didn't know you could do that to a
smartphone lens like that, just with light ar. The more
you know and learn, I didn't realize.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
But yeah, and then the ex thirty I think it's
just having trouble withs Oh it's not built.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
It is not built.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
It's not built in the United States. I don't thin
it's even assemble in the United States.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
I remember feeling I spect one out a while ago,
and I remember thinking, this is a really cool I
like the design, the interior is really nice. I like
the how small it is. As a fan, I don't
know if you knew that I like small cars. You're
telling me you like things like efficiency. Oh yeah, maybe
that's the word efficiency. But I spect it out and

(34:26):
I just remember thinking, this is way too much for well.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Randy came to the same conclusion. That was his whole
beef I think last year.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
But if it was in Europe, I'm sure it'd be
way cheaper and probably oh, I'm sure a lot more compelling.
Believe it's built in China, and I could tell it
was not on them. I was like, this has clearly
been too.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
They were aiming for I think thirty five or something
like that, and I would be jumped up to like,
I think forty two.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Or thirty five would be perfect. Yeah, it's even forty
would be good.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
It's a great little car. It's just paying forty two
or something like that or forty seven.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
And I think even the Bait Basic one were like
fifty and I was.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
Like, probably after taxes and all that, Yeah, that's a
bit much, but for a very compact car that you're
not really in the market for right now.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah. No. The design, the design, they did a great
job though.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Oh yeah, that's why I'm a big fan of his
The design and also the the quirkiness of the design
choices that they had and something that follows their ethos
of safety but also modern looking. Yeah, and also their
product line as well. They didn't deviate too far. It
wasn't kind of like the ugly C thirty step child

(35:36):
that they had a while back. They had like a
weird hexagonal back rear window or whatever.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Right, just you.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Look at that compared to like the old V seventies
and sixties or the nine forties or whatever, It's like
it doesn't really look like those old wagons and you
look at like the XC forties and fifty was the
XC forties, sixties and lots, and like, it doesn't look
like those either. Is the weird ugly step child?

Speaker 1 (36:04):
It was weird?

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Like the ex thirty fits perfectly well in their designs.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
It's clean. It's a very clean look. Yeah, I agree,
and I'm glad they did yellow, even though those do
not sell very well.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
It's like, no, no, we were talking about off camera. Yeah,
it's disappointing that Rivian's gotten rid of a lot of
those options.

Speaker 1 (36:21):
Red Canyon was my favorite. It hurt. Yeah that was
a while ago. But oh they've really nuked them, but
they come back. Probably what they are too, it's probably
they're in a special time right now where they've really
got to focus on our two cut costs walls, developing
new product, and I think they're trying to keep our

(36:42):
one average selling price high, so they also have to
keep the manufacturing complexity low. Right. So a lot of
people I think we're very critical of the Quad. Well,
they're expecting the world out of it, right, Everyone had
these super high and it is expensive, so they have
a right, I guess to be critical, but I just

(37:04):
sometimes it frustrates me when people don't look at the
state of the company as a factor as to why
they do what they do, because I'm like that maybe
so explains a lot, though it gives context exactly, it's
a context.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
I wouldn't say it's an excuse, but it is context
for right where they're at.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
It's easy to say, I'm the customer. I'm paying one
hundred and twenty grand.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
You can get yourself a Cadillac Escalate IQ with that money.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
There, you go buy one of those, I guess. But
I just mean, like, if you knew the state that
Rivian was in and you acknowledged their financial situation, the
quad makes perfect sense. It's not a surprise at all.
But then people review it and they're like, oh, it's
not that different, or they should have added a million
other things and features and update this and that, and

(37:50):
I'm like, I mean, I'm sure they wanted to. It's
not like they don't know how they brought skid turn
that tank turn back. But as a stitch, I thought
that was cool. I also just think they should have
tank turn on those original quads. Yeah, just say used responsibly.

(38:11):
I don't get the whole like, well, it could turn
up the trail and I'm like, yeah, any Meanwhile, the
Mercedes was or whatever. It's just like doing cycles everywhere.
You don't like protect the trails with software. Like if
a driver wants to screw up a trail, he can
do it. It doesn't matter if he has tank turn

(38:31):
or not.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
I think Rivian saw it as an opportunity to not
destroy the environment because they're very much an adventurous, family
friendly brand. Whatever is it only a quad motor? Yeah, okay,
maybe that's their excuse then, but there's quad motors out there,
the originals, the original quads, So I'm like, you should

(38:55):
give them kick turn or turn or whatever, and just
as a thank you for buying such an early Rivian
because they kind of getting forgotten with Driver Plus and
it's happened with the old models's and Xes. Sorry, yeah,
you've got the old MCU one orherever.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Whatever. At least they don't get rock. Yeah that's good.
Oh ok, they're good. I haven't got that update yet. Well,
I think moving forward to it, the twenty twenty one
doesn't have the AMD chip. No, my three that does.
The three potentially three could get Grock at one of

(39:34):
these days, but it hasn't yet, just funny because they've
been advertising it for like weeks, like, Grock, do you
think the anime character will show up on the MAINSTA?
I hope not.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
No thank you, at least from what I saw. It's
mainly just like a little widget that's.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
A little glow. But it doesn't even do the vehicle commands.
It can't make your car do anything, so it's literally
just to ask it random life universe questions. But I'm like,
I don't need that, no, no thank you. I don't
even use the voice commands honestly that much. I don't
find them very helpful.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
I only use it for when I need to text
my wife oh yeah, and then it's somewhat useful. But
the issue is sometimes it gets the name wrong. Yeah,
And there's been a couple of times where I'm like, oh,
call my wife right, and then for some reason it's like, okay,
you're gonna send a message to this person like that's
not my wife.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
I know. This is exactly what I've had with voice commands,
and it's like so unpredictable that I just don't use
it because I don't trust it.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Well, it was gonna send a message to someone I
haven't talked to. They're in my context. I haven't talked
them since it's.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Like high school. Yeah, just rude to me that one
bad experience means like, okay, I'm not even going to
use this for probably months.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I still yeah, I mean for me, I'm still willing
to try it again.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
It's just I'm now more careful.

Speaker 2 (40:49):
Right, I'll Unfortunately I now divert my view from the
road to reconfirm it is my.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Wife's name on the bottom.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah, and it's saying what would you like to send
to your wife forever? And then I'm like, okay, good,
I can say, hey, you want me to pick up
anything on the way.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
Home or literally easier for me to just talk to
my phone's voice assistant instead of the cars. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
So i drove the truck to work a while back,
and I've got a little car tablet in it. It's
called a car tablet. Oh nice from this one company
that makes them in China or whatever, but like it's
a good car tablet. It's got a little camera on
the backside so it acts like a dash cam, huh,
and it has a lit less mic rusty card in it,
so it actually works kind of like a dash cam,

(41:32):
and I think it refreshes the video every three or
four minutes, so it's always recording, but it's like low
res quality, so yeah, it doesn't fill up the SD
card quickly. But what's also nice is it comes with
a accessory camera and so it's got a really long
wire and so I've wired it down underneath the vehicle
and then nice, I wanted to wire it on the outside,

(41:54):
but that was gonna be a little bit too complicated
and weather proofing and all that, so I just kind
of stuck it onto the back of the truck on
the inside or ever.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
And it works. That's cool. So does that connect to
voice commands something?

Speaker 2 (42:07):
So anyways, it has car play and and all that.
It's okay. So that's why I wanted to get into is.
At some point the Apple Assistant appeared for some reason.
I think it's because I got a message and so
it said, here's the message, do you want to reply?
And I was listening to music through Spotify or ever

(42:28):
through the tablet, and so it interrupted the music, said Hey,
here's a message. Do you want to reply? I said no,
and then it just kept the music off. It didn't
resume the music. I'm like, that's annoying, weird, And that's
been I mean, otherwise it's been like fine, as like
a pseudo solution for having car play in the car

(42:52):
because it's a it's not a smart truck. No, we
bought this truck with like no technology packages in it
because we didn't want technology package. Keep it simple, yeah,
keep it And that's why I love it. It's like
it's even got an old like digital display where it's
got like either the pixels on or the pixels off,
like almost like a ink, but like old early two

(43:12):
thousands like display. And we love it because it's not
like that software is going to get age and all that,
because it's that old analog.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Like software pretty much.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
So having the table in there is it's a strapped
on solution, but it works for everything that we need
it for. And it's a great secondary where your camera
for if we're towing something wherever. But otherwise, my experience
with CarPlay and it has been like it's all right.
And to be fair, it is a third party product.

(43:47):
It's not built into the vehicle. It's plugged in via
ox cord as well, and also cigarette lighter for power,
so it's not like it's not getting enough power for
it to do anything amazing. And also it's plugged in
through ox cords, so it's not amazing audio and amazing
software experience. But it's a good I would say, we're

(44:09):
all I'm a satisfied customer, but it's not the most
amazing car play experience that everyone touts with their built
in car play cars, which is okay.

Speaker 1 (44:21):
I think most would say it's better than the nothing
or poor implementation. A lot of we did what we
did before is we just put our phone on the shelf. Yeah,
and that worked.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
It worked, but it was annoying because then if we
ever wanted to do anything, we'd have to ground the phone.
Where now it's a little tablet where you can actually
tap on in you can get to different menus because
it acts like a car playface. It's all right, I
don't know, like that's been my experience. You said that
you've had a couple of experiences with car play and

(44:54):
you're intrigued.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
By it, but an extended period. But yeah, there's some
aspects of that I really like.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Is that maybe something you're looking for in your next vehicle.
I would like to try one.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, I would like to try one for more extended
period because I can tell there's definitely pros and cons
to it, but I don't know all of them until
I probably do a road trip with it. I asked
that mainly because you've surprised me with your sudden interest
in the mak e well where I remember in early
days of this podcast were ripping into that thing because

(45:27):
of the screen. I still don't like the dial, but
it's more there's a lot I like about the Maki.
The exterior designs gorgeous. In my opinion, I wouldn't have
called it a Mustang. I still don't think it should
be called I still don't call it a Mustang, but
I think it looks cool yea. When I see him
on the road pretty regularly, I'm just like, man, there's

(45:49):
a lot of crossover designs out there, and I think
they just found a way to spice it up a bit.
It looks kind of sporty.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Your edgy, oh yeah, because they made the back way
edge taper the black Yeah, and so the side of.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
You looks more like a Mustang. Yeah, you sloped right,
even though it actually is slightly squared off a bit
more than it actually appears. I like the door buttons.
I wish more companies would do the little wings and
all that just keep it simple that I do wonder
how hot they get, because that's something you highlight when

(46:26):
your y was getting repaired and you're driving a cyber truck.
Is that the cyber truck would actually hurt. It was
steel though, Yeah, it was not the button. Okay, the
glass or the past I think it's plastic. But whatever
the door button material is does not get as hot
as that steel when it's been sitting in the sun
for a while. Okay, to be fair, we live in
a super hot climate, so maybe we experienced heat. Most don't.

(46:47):
But when I was getting into the truck, it's straight
up was like ow, and I have to grab that
to open it, you know, I wish the button and
then you grab the little and it was like geez.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
To give the Machi the benefit of the doubt. The
door hand on it, which is like a little winds whatever.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, that's plastic. That does act more like a radiator. Yeah,
if you think about radiator blades or heat sinks, where
it's like just trying to expel energy as much, doesn't
suk it up.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
It's in a blade like yeah, geometry.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
And even the door panels are just normal painted aluminum,
which does not get as hot as that steel did
on the sure But so anyways, you've expressed your interest
in them. There's a few things that are unique about it.
The twenty twenty five Monkeys actually got cheaper. I don't
know if many people noticed, but no one's talking about it. No, Yeah,

(47:39):
it didn't get much attention, but they they lowered the
price on the base models a bit, which was cool.
So I think, assuming you find a good dealer, of
course you're playing the dealer. I think they're still doing
the was it the dealer employee discount? Yeah, I think
they were. I was looking at a few employee discount

(47:59):
for p Yeah, you don't have to be an employee. Yeah,
and they still give you that. But no, I was
looking at some that you were dipping below forty and
the Select series has LFP batteries, which I'm a fan of,
pretty good efficiency. They switched to heat pumps I think
in twenty four or twenty three around there. Yeah, I
could be wrong slightly, but I was looking up what

(48:22):
real World efficiency is and they're around three and a half,
which I was like, that's okay, it's pretty that's about
what our wives getting. Yeah, occasionally you get four if
you're driving slower. But I was like, okay, it's a crossover,
so it's not going to get sedan efficiency. No, but
you shouldn't expect that. No. And it's a hatchback, which

(48:42):
my wife likes, LFP battery, which I like, And it's
one of the very few EV's that has the EV
route planning integration with car play okay, which very few
support that. And I was like, I've always been curious
about I watched that. The only other one I saw
that had it was the Tykon. Okay, that's a little

(49:04):
bit out of your I love the Tykon, but it
is also a sedan.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah, and we I mean you could get the was
it the cross touring version of it?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
That's true. Those are cool but also still a little
bit more wagony or whatever. Still out of the price range.
But yeah, I I don't And I like again the
LFP battery, which I wouldn't have on a Taikon. They
do have great charging curves.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Though I love Daddy of Cross shopping a mocky seleon.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
So if your main number one priority is evy route
planning with car play, obviously, the F one fifty Lightning
also has it because it's for ye. So but I
don't think i'd want a Lightning.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
It's just you're not really looking for a truck drive
you are, it's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
It's gonna be a smaller one, super biased. But yeah, no,
I've also driven a Lightning before and it's not my style.
It's just not for me. I get white people by them.
I get why they're popular because it is so familiar.
I think mark a player about one that doesn't chuck
me at all, just like and they're also apparently very
cheap to lease now mm, which is great. So if

(50:13):
you're just you drive F one fifties, a lot of
people have driven them for decades and you're just like,
I would like an electric one. It's perfect for that.
But sure, I did not grow up driving F one fifties,
so it's not an important thing. But I drove the
Machi and I mostly liked it. There's definitely some things
with the interior that I would change, but it's been

(50:34):
a while. That was twenty twenty. I think when I
drove we both drove at the same time. It was
I both you drove a red one, I drove a
blue one. Wasn't that the Blazer or no? What am
I thinking of? No, so we drove the Blazer I
think last year. Oh jeez.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
And then after that we checked out the three, and
then there's the cyber Track, there's the new three okay,
Ludicris three or whatever.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah, the Maki definitely still has some of that legacy
Auto O stench, with a little bit more button complexity
and the UI not being great. But I don't know.
I'd like I'd like to give it a every single
time you make it didn't be And also GM's got
some really good options, but I'm not a fan of

(51:17):
the just we're going all in on Google OS, like
I would like I would like the option to use
car Play. I mean, the Blazer was nice when we
checked it out. It wasn't a bad UI, but I
just I like the option. If Apple does it doesn't
happen much, but if Apple does something cool with car Play,

(51:38):
I would like to be like, oh, I can't wait
to try that in my car. And I mean, with
my line of work. Apple content is kind of a
big deal. So if I had a car that I
could actually review the new Apple software on, I can
get more content out of it. This is phone mirroring now, Yeah,
I was trying to think of other things I was compared. Yeah,

(51:59):
the phone. I'm not sure. I'm as huge a fan
of the Regen paddle approach the Machi uses that, No,
but the Hyundai kiyas due, I think, And I don't
know if I would want to get used to. My
coworker who owns one, says he's not a huge He
said there's a button for one pedal driving, and you

(52:21):
have to press it every time you get Oh, it
doesn't just stay on. That would annoy me personally. Yes,
though I only want one pedal. But sometimes I think
it's easy. We get into Tesla's and we immediately know
all the problems because we've lived with them for so long, right,
And sometimes we look at alternatives and think, oh, those

(52:41):
fix those problems, But once we get in them, we'd
probably discover oh, Tesla actually got these things where we're
taking a lot of it. For granted, absolutely, I think
with the software, especially just how easy it is to
plug in something and go.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Oh, it's so great. I mean, like, to be fair,
we're kind of tuned to it. Yeah, there's something that
my father.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
In law, so he was doing a motorcycle tour in California.
He was all away from north.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
To south and on the coast and all that, and
when he got to our house and the tour, he
was trying to get his garment all plugged in for
the specific route that he was taking in the motorcycle
and he was having trouble with it because he would
put in different locations, not sequentially, and the garment would

(53:28):
then be like, okay, so you're going two hours north
and then you're going an hour and a half south,
And it wasn't getting the logic of no, I need
to stop here, here, here, and here where for us
we know what buns depressed three kind of.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah, you have to know. So once you know it,
it's there, there's quicker ways to do it.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
So like my mind immediately goes to or what's nice
about the Tesla's if it knows that you have a schedule,
like you have a date with the calendar, yeah, or
if you just have a cadence of like I go
to work Mondays through Fridays. Yeah, so it knows to
immediately plug in the address when you get in the car,
but then there's many times of like, oh, I need

(54:12):
to maybe stop at the supercharger on Tuesdays and Thursdays
or whatever, and so then I don't hit a trip,
I hit ad stop right and that immediately then puts
it into the queue between where I started and where
I ended, where if you hit edit trip it adds
on or the button to added a new location is

(54:34):
after the destination.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
So there's a little bit of nuanced there.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
And that's why I brought up my father in law
with this garment, is like you have to know what
the software is trying to tell you.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
And so when you get into like a Moke or Equinox.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Or it's gonna be a little bit different if it
has that availability to do different stops.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Well, if you watch reviews of just like the basic
plug in a faraway destination and any Hyundai or Kia
and watch how it almost dies, think of what it
has to do. It's like I want to go to Vegas,
Vegas or Denver and you plug it in and it's
like it's it's like, oh, you can't get there on
one charge you will have to charge is that okay,

(55:14):
and you have to okay, no, And then it's like
it selects a bunch and then it'll add like a
level too. It's like, oh yeah, stop here for fifteen hours.
It's like it'll do these weird things that we don't
even think about. Just on the drive here we were
leaving my work. And then we have the option of
search a long route. Yes, we're like, we want a

(55:34):
pizza place along this road, so you can just search
and it knows to not route you in the wrong direction,
go north. Yeah. This is probably what a lot of
the competition does when you plug it in, so little
things like that. We don't realize how nice we have it,
but we do notice when build quality isn't great and no,

(55:56):
or we're just.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
Getting tired of the same rig role and or probably
a little bit more seriously, hardware starts failing like the battery.
That's frustrating, Yeah, because then you don't trust it.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, And it makes me nervous that a lot of
people out there seem to have this mindset or comfortable
with the idea of oh as long as the battery,
Like I've seen online a lot of people comfortable with
the idea of one hundred and twenty thousand miles. I
won't own it at that point, so it's no problem.
As long as the warranty is within my ownership period,

(56:29):
I'm good. And there's people that are like, I just
won't own an EVY out of warranty, and my wife
and I we were just like, no, we're not those
kinds of people. We're not the ones that are gonna like,
we're gonna buy another car every four years or five
years or something. I know some people that buy cars
like every two months. If you do that, least thing
probably makes more sense. I couldn't do it. It's not

(56:50):
my cup of tea. I'm the kind of guy that's like,
I'm gonna buy it until it stops moving. And the
more I think like that about how we drive our
car so much and don't want to replace them all
the time, that's what makes me want to lean more
towards maybe I should prioritize LFP more than I think
I should. Like, I still agree with you, it is

(57:10):
the future. I thinks, yeah, that the long range towing
ones I think will always need.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
No I mean the iqs' gravity yeah, like technically nails both.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
I mean, gravity is amazing. It doesn't have the LFP
but no, but if you want an EV with four
hundred five hundred miles, yeah, it's gonna be nickel based.
I don't think. I don't think there's gonna be We're
of other chemists. Although Chevy is making an LFP Silverado
that I think goes three fifty, which might be the
highest range LFP I've ever seen. Would you consider that? No,

(57:46):
because the rest of it it has a middate, it does,
I think the work truck doesn't. But did you see
Aging Wheels bought a Silverado. Yes. His review basically convinced me.
I was like, well, that battery is really cool and
the range is great, but the rest of it is
a lot of truck. It's a lot of trucks, a

(58:08):
lot of failure points, and GM is not known for
their wonderful interiors. A friend of mine actually just bought
not the work truck, what's it called, the RST Silverado.
He loves it. Yeah, he sure. He's been taking it
on these road trips and he uses the midgate and
puts his match. I'm a big fan of the GMC
version yeah, whatever, again, probably too big for me in

(58:31):
my liking, I don't need a space, but still I
think GM's probably doing it right.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
The size I'm looking between is something like, I mean,
tell it would be great, but too small for my wife.
So something between a Rivian and I guess what we
have right now with like an F one fifty sized vehicle.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
That's Scout right, you're the big Scout Scouts right in there.
I'm glad you remember because some people I feel like,
kind of forget about Scout because so much has happens.
It's the unvailing Well.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I think that's what I like about them is they're
not trying to build everything up right now, being like
you should buy our truck right now.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
I mean, they do have ads on.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
Like Instagram at other places, but it's not like they're
all in on the you don't see them mean like
we're building this right now, We're gonna do it right now.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
It's like, now we're we're building the factor.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
We're going to celebrate like you see if you're on
LinkedIn and stuff like that, you see they're milestones because
they're really proud of it, which sure it's great. It
means that they're getting closer and closer, but it's a
lot of money they're sinking into it.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
It's a very expensive project. I hope I hope they
do well. I hope they're just like Rian, Yeah, at
this point, I'm actually questioning how funneling all this money,
how much money VW has at this point, because they're
funneling millions into stout and they're betting big on it,
for sure. I just I'm very curious what the market

(59:49):
size is for what do you call it the e
REV market of like pretty big battery but still an
integrated gas generator. That's not me, I'm not a guess guy.
If that's not a but a lot of people I'm
sure it is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
So that was the thing that struck me is this
is why maybe a little bit more bullish with them
or parish is good. I don't use the terms too much,
that's all right, But I'm very bolsh to them because
they wanted to go all EV. Yeah, Like they've made
this very vocal in a lot of their interviews is
we wanted to go all EV. But then our investors

(01:00:27):
are people, and internally we're like, well, we kind of
want like a backup gas generator or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Is that something you can maybe include?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
And they got enough of those requests that they're like, Okay,
let's see what happens if we offer that, or like, yeah,
we consider that, let's do some of the back of
the napkin math on, like what we could.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Get out of that. That's kind of their differentiator, I'd say,
And then that separates them the most, right, and then
they give it the legacy naming of the International Harvester,
kayakage and all that with Scout, and then it makes
more sense, I think, being a legacy brand to lean
into the fuel.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
But then they offered it, and then some reports have
said that it's like over eighty percent of their reservations
have that package included.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
That doesn't surprise me, which.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Only tells me that, I mean, it makes sense because
hybrids are a big thing these days.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
People love hybrids. Well, I just don't want to go
in on what they're pitching, especially with that Harvester that's
what the range extenders called, Yes, the Harvester package. I
feel like there's nothing really on the market that can
rival that. I mean, maybe the RAM Charger is a
close that's the next I mean, but it's also delayed,

(01:01:40):
not out and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
It's going to come around the same time as them. Actually,
I think it comes out still before.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
It it might, yeah, because it's supposed to come out.
It's supposed to come out in twenty twenty four by
the way, Oh right, I saw it got delayed that.
I just mean, if you wanted an all electric big
ish truck, biggest, you kind of already have options for that.
I don't see why you would wait for a Scout
if you're looking for an all electric solution. But if

(01:02:07):
you're waiting for a e REV they're perfect, Like, they've
got really good software. It looks like they're putting a
lot of time in emphasis. It's the Zoll Electronics. So
I'm like, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that most of
the people doing pre orders are the ones that are like,
I can't get a range extender on my Rivian. Rivians
made it very clear they don't want to do a

(01:02:28):
gas range extender, which, okay, that's their choice. That's fine.
So it's just yeah, having the options, you know, and
I can tell you from running the tell O social
media that it comes up in the contents a lot
people are like, why can't I put in an arrange extender.
We were at open Sauce and there were people straight
up asking us there like have you thought about a
way for me to plug in a range extender? And

(01:02:49):
it was like, well, for us, in our goal, it
was all about how small of a footprint can we
be in and just a range extender that's gas power
did not fit in that equation. It was like, there's
not a good place to put it that wouldn't severely
sacrifice on storage. It's a very space efficient vehicle.

Speaker 2 (01:03:09):
Yeah, So putting in an engine in which you then
have to choose an engine, you're not gonna want to build.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
An engine, You're not to mind an engine from a
current would be off the shelf and it would be slow.
It would not be a good accelerating engine now, and
there's honestly it would eat into storage yep. And because
everything's packed so tight, you would feel it, you would
hear it. So we were just like, you know, a
lot of people at Tello still drive gas cars. Very

(01:03:35):
few actually drive electric right now, so they're not like
gas car haters, but a lot of them are still
totally happy with their combustion engines. But it was just
for the intended purpose of this market, it doesn't really
make sense for us.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I want to touch on open sauce Lader just to
get your shin in on that whole event. Yes, I
don't think you've really talked about too much online or
even for those that listen to this podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Is an open sauce yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
But to continue more on those the EREV type of stuff. Sure,
it is something that has its pros and.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Cons, Like it's been done in smaller formats like the
Vault in the past, but I think the I three
also was a version of it as well. And what's
nice about current hybrids which I believe are parallel hybrids
or whatever or cereal I forget plug in Yeah, the
plug in ones.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Like what's nice is it's mainly driven by the engine
and then the battery is more of the assist yeah,
in which in like the Vault or the I three
or whatever like, it plays a little bit more of
a significant role where you get like forty to fifty
to whatever miles of range. But otherwise, like the concern
about gas getting old in it is there, but like

(01:04:53):
because it's primarily driven by the engine and you're more
likely to forget about charging it up, You're going to
use that gas eventually.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
Yeah, wherewith it's easy to kind of remind people in the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
Software right where with what RAM and Scout are planning.
With these E rev versions where it's a series hybrid
or whatever it is, you actually have a higher likelihood
of having a lot more stale gas sitting in there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
That's true, pretty higher likelihood and.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Or forgetting to charge it up, and you now have
a power issue because if you're going up a hill
and you're in a battery, you're now relying on an
underpowered engine quickly charge the battery, you know exactly, Well,
not just that or just power output is the problem
because the combined of the end or the if you're

(01:05:49):
having a combination of engine plus battery, it's going to
give you the horsepower necessary to tow tackle.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
A huge mountain or off road or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
But if you lose that assist from the battery because
you've run out of power in it, in which then
the engine's gonna have to do double duty of powering
it up while also trying to give power to the vehicle,
it's gonna have some issues. So that's something I'm actually
really curious about.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
I'm curious about maintenance too, like does that need oil
changes or is this so?

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
What I like about is engineer, they've gotten rid of
the transmissions, I think in both those vehicles, so you
don't have to worry about that maintenance. And from my
understanding as an engineer, I'm not I'm an engineer, but
I would think if it's running at a constant rate,
very consistent, very consistent, you're not revving it up or
down like you would with a regular internal combustion engine,

(01:06:42):
that's probably really good for the engine because it doesn't
have to go really high on revving it up to
high levels of usage or power.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
It's probably gonna last a while. Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
That's at least my hopes, or at least my understanding
of it from my current stand I mean, the technology exists,
it's just we're not seeing it out in the wild yet.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Yeah, obviously in a large real different.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
For big vehicles, I guess is what I'm trying to
focus on. We've seen it maybe in the I three,
if I'm understanding the technology correctly, but there's only so
many I threes made. They didn't do crazy big stuff
like off roading and towing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
Or things that trucks do.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
And so that's where I'm very intrigued with what RAM
charger and the Terra or the Traveler, Yeah, we'll have
to beat with. And also what engine they'll choose in
the Scout because of the ram charger, they've made it
very vocal they're using the engine that's in my ram right, Yeah,
the not the Hurricane motor, but the Penistar will The

(01:07:55):
Penistar V six is a really good engine from my
own experience. So with that, I know that the ram
charge is probably in good hands. Even though it's gonna
have an overpowered V six in it, probably it's gonna
I think that gives them the buffer for if you
want to have battery power. The Penastar is gonna be

(01:08:16):
good enough because my toted a trail of mine and
it was good enough. Yeah, I mean to be fair,
these things are gonna be towing bigger things. But with
the Scout, I don't know what engine they're choosing. Is
it going to be a version of it, is it
Is it gonna be some VW engine that I'm just

(01:08:36):
not provy to.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
I don't know. So that's where some of the unknowns
are with that product. I also have some questions. We
haven't touched on them yet, but I have a little
bit of a concern with Slate too because having a
I believe they said in the interview that the Harvester
version has one hundred and fifty mile range battery pack
Slate versus Scout. Yeah, Slate also has one hundred and

(01:09:01):
fifty mile range on the base model battery pack. And
my concern is, like, yeah, for the argument is for
around town and you're not road tripping, that's enough. But
my concern is when the vehicle's not as energy efficient
per mile, you're basically going to be running up cycles
on that battery a lot quicker than you would if

(01:09:21):
you had a two fifty or three hundred mile range
crossover like most TVs are now. So let's say you
drive forty or fifty miles a day on average, extrapolated
over the year, you know, vector in road trips, maybe
it's sixty or whatever. So sixty miles of range a
day eating into a three hundred mile range is very

(01:09:41):
different from a sixty miles a day eating into one
hundred and fifty. So it's like, if that's a smaller battery,
that's running up cycles faster that might wear it out
quicker and might need to be replaced or if they've
entertained LFP. I hope, so that would I feel like
that would be a perfect application, give them a range hit,

(01:10:02):
but also the I mean weight hit.

Speaker 2 (01:10:05):
But they're trying to market it as a work truck, right,
so I would think their prerogative would be this thing
is supposed to be reliable for hundreds of thousands of miles.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
Yeah, we'll see what the warranty is like when it
comes out, and no one's going to beat the RAM
one right now. Whatever Slate's version of the warranty is,
or at least the usability, it is a very underpowered
work truck. But it doesn't need to be an over
powerful truck in the first place. I thinkring to yeah, okay, yeah, no,
I think for a lot of people it'll be perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
It doesn't need to be this big capable vehicle. I
think that's something that maybe a lot of people skip over.
Our miss is like this is a small, little I mean,
it's cost the same as like a or a little
bit more than a Maverick from Ford, but like it's
meant to do round town stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
But I do.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
I do agree racking up cycle count in the battery
is a big concern.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Yeah, it's at least for longevity. That comes up for
me a lot. I guess for others maybe not so
much because they plan on replacing it after four or
five years. But I don't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
So I'm like, it'd be gay for fleets, honestly. Yeah,
I could see tiny little trucks for like Caltrans or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
They're not going far and they just need two seats.
That's that's perfect. And I've been reading comments for years
asking for exactly what slate. Yeah, there's been so many
people have been like, I want the hand crank window.
I don't paint it, you know, just keep it really basic,
no fancy screens or anything. And I'm like, yeah, I mean,

(01:11:36):
I guess we haven't talked about that in the podcast. No,
this case Slate came out after the podcast. I'm a
big fan of what they've done with it. Me too.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
No, And like, I've got speakers that will fit into
that well, clip on on or I think what the
beauty of it is if you can understand how they
put that clip in or that accessory in.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
Yeah, you could probably just three D print a version.
Oh easily, I'm sure, Like this might be a real
great maker vehicle. Oh I think they're counting on it. Yeah,
it's like your own accessories and then you don't even
need to pay them because that's where they're going to
make their money and you can just skirt by and
be like, no, I got a home. That is something
I'm curious about those, like how much margin do they

(01:12:17):
have on those trucks, because the original rumored business pitch
was that they had next to no margin on the
truck and the business was going to be powered by
the accessories sold, which is interesting. I think that's still
the pitch.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
It's just the big question mark is the margin if
they have a bunch of margin or no margin?

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
And how do you force your customers to go first
party accessory because, like you said, if it's a maker vehicle,
people are going to want to make their own accessories
or buy third party for cheap. So not that many
people are kind of like makers, and like if you think.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
About a work truck, like someone will grab the roof
rack that they need for extra y reason or I'm sure,
and that's where slate can easily be like Okay, roof
ra it costs like two thousand dollars, which is like
a ridiculous price for a roof rack, but.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
It's convenient to take delivery with for bigor you know
it's gonna work with that product. Yeah, But I just
for the masses, I could easily see a scenario where
it's like I can buy that same rack from some
third party team of one thousand bucks or yeah, team
would be like one hundred dollars. And it's like, how
many people do you need buying those accessories to keep

(01:13:28):
a whole assembly line running? You know, right, that's the
big question. But I think they'll make it. I think
they've got funding and I hope so I wish them
all the best. I'm glad there's all kinds of mini
trucks coming, and I'm just happy for all.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
I mean, even though that we touched on it earlier,
like it seems like dark days for eevs with the
incentives going away.

Speaker 1 (01:13:48):
At least in America. Sometimes it feels like maybe because
of all the mistakes Tesla's made lately, it's making it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
The bleakness of the political and all that, But like
there's still creativity out there's a lot of whole We've
lost Fiskers and Bowlingers and all that, but like there's
still people with great ideas, Tello, Slate, Scout, Like these
are all brands that are new and fresh and they've
got really interesting, very.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
Unique I can't forget everybody else. They're the only solar
charged ones. But yeah, no, it's it's a cool avenue
to see these new because so many ev startups for
a while now have just been like how much luxury
can we throw at it? You know, that's what I
hate to throw them under the bus so much. But
it reminds me of Faraday, where it's just like three

(01:14:38):
hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
SUV is a very special place and it's like what
are we doing? When you look into Fara day you
realize that this is kind of like the Ferrari or
maybe you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
See what they unveiled recently. They came out with some
fair van, Yeah, some minivan and they put like a
TV on the on the outside. Yeah, on the outside,
it's just this giant screen. It doesn't even look like
it's integrated that it's just bolted on. No, yeah, it
looks weird. I'll show you later. But it's just so tech,

(01:15:11):
and I was just like, this is not what the
EV industry needs. It's more like, well, let's throw more
luxury features on it. So I'm refreshed with Slate right
for being the first EV startup in a while. That's
just like how much can we remove and let's let's
push the boundaries of what we can get away with

(01:15:32):
and maybe even make some people uncomfortable with like how
much we've removed. That's good that they're exploring that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
We also highlight it with Ravian, where like you take
a little bit of the context into it, Yeah, and
with Slate there is a lot more context as well.
With Yeah, like they're trying to achieve this price and
because the sounds are going away, it's gonna be a
little bit higher. But like sure, think about what they're
trying to achieve, right, is of very low cost, no frills,

(01:15:58):
no nothing work that you can do whatever with in
the city. It's not supposed to be like the off
I mean you could probably take it off road. But otherwise,
like the context as well of like they're trying to
launch this in a very uncertain time for EV.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
Sure, so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
Even though like they don't deserve the break because they
haven't delivered anything yet.

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
I mean I haven't really seen one drive around yet.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
But they're trying to bring something into reality when the
world is saying we don't want that, or the at
least the United States is saying we actually don't want that.
Right now, we want to focus more on this. But
I think if they can make it through that initial
push of game It to market, they've got a lot

(01:16:44):
of headroom to push that price and that capability, like
push the price down, but also push the capability up.
And just like Apple or whoever, they can upcharge a
bunch of money on storage or I mean Apple does
a storage but like for slate with accessories of whatever kind.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
I guess or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Yeah, and that's where they can make their money. Yeah,
So the market idea for the product makes total sense.
It's just the timing for it kind of sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:17:16):
Yeah, the timings. If it came out a little earlier,
that probably would have helped them immensely. But you know,
a lot of things will be better if they came out, Yeah, maybe,
and worse, they probably wouldn't have had the NAX access
if they were launching a few years ago, so that
would have been a harder one hundred and fifty mile
range can be tight. So I think, you know, the

(01:17:37):
the biggest difference because Slate came up a lot at
Open Sauce, like you mentioned, Yeah, because people were like,
is this slate. We had to be like, no, But
we like those guys. We love what they're doing. But
other than the fact that the Tello and the Slate
are small trucks, that's about when the similarities end. Aside
from the small truck thing, they're very different markets and

(01:17:57):
I personally feel there's plenty them for both. I don't
think one has to survive in the other.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
No, I'm honestly hoping that all the other car companies
are paying attention. Yeah, Like, I really hope that Ford,
with their T three project has kind of canned the
idea of maybe it's a reimagined version of the F
one fifty or even if they're thinking something like Ranger size.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
I would then all electric Maverick would be sick. That's
where my mind went first. Is they already start with
a hybrid on the Maverick, right, Yeah, just put the
extra mile already. Yeah, I don't. I don't know. Knowing Ford,
they probably would want to keep as much the same
as possible, so I wonder how high range they could

(01:18:42):
get with that. It would be a more expensive Maverick
pretty much probably, but I think a lot of people
would buy it though.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
I think anything with that one fifty lightning, yeah, just
Maverick light bar, we're done. Call it the Maverick thunder.
Or because they got that one fifty lightning, the Maverick thunder.

Speaker 1 (01:18:59):
Yeah, that's great. Sounds like a joke. I would make
the Mavericks thunder. That's good.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
So tell me a little bit more about this open
sauce thing. Yeah, Well, like people don't know what the
hack open sauce is, so basically I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
Either until so to be clear, Tello was invited to come.
No Tello the truck company, Mini truck company. So it
cost us nothing, which was cool, that's great. So they
were just like, hey, come on down and show your
truck off to everybody in attendance. And it was good
for us because we want to every time we show

(01:19:37):
the truck off in person, we get way more interest
than just a basic like online view. You get all
kinds of negative comments all day it looks weird or
it's too expensive, yeada YadA. That's very normal online, but
in person it's totally different. Everyone's like, what is that?
Lots of enthusiasm, way more enthusiasm. They all the whole

(01:19:59):
three days I was there, I talked for ten hours straight,
barely had a chance to eat and sit down, barely's
the restroom. It was not good, but I was so
passionate and excited by all these new people that had
never heard of us, and I would always ask them like,
have you seen us online? A couple said yes, but
most of them said like, no, I've never heard of you.
Guys great, which is perfect because you know, a lot

(01:20:20):
of the time they're like, why don't you do our
discord on tellows like why don't you do public events
so we can come out and look at it, And
it's like, we want to do those, and we will.
But it's not a great opportunity for new people to
discover us because if we do it the event ourselves,
then the only people who are coming to see it
are people who already know about it. It just becomes
a meetup, yeah exactly, which meetups are fun, but oh sure,

(01:20:43):
we also want to broaden the audience.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
Too, well, it's an important time for the company to
broaden the horizons, to get everyone you want to know
about the product, yeah, to know about it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
And there was also a very high open Sauce as
a creator focused and maker focus event held in San
Mateo County.

Speaker 2 (01:21:03):
What's funny is I got ads for it on Instagram
and I was more didn't know that Tello was going right,
And I saw some names and I'm like, oh, I
recognize that name and that Yeah, it would be cool.
And I looked at the ticket price, I'm like, I
don't know about that. And then also at the same time,
I was busy sure that weekend, and also that week
was a tough one as well, so I got it

(01:21:23):
didn't make sense for me to go.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
And then don't blame you. You did not set the prices.
Just so everyone's no, you guys were a vendor. We
were a sponsor. A sponsor. We didn't pay to be there,
but they called the sponsors.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
But anyways, then you let me know, oh, yeah, I'll
be in town, Yeah, going to this event orherever.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
I'm like what event. You're like, oh, open, So I'm like,
why does that sound familiar? It was random. I had
not heard of it before, but it was actually a
lot of fun. My wife was there and she went
to a bunch of the panels with the YouTubers. But
the cool thing is you also get a bunch of
media people with large followings sure to come check out
the truck. So we met with some pretty big YouTubers

(01:22:01):
that were like giving us their info and saying, we
want to make a video with the truck. And so
we're still in the early stages of scheduling because we're
always like, come to us, and they're always like, come
to us. We'll try to figure out which trips are
worth the track, but there were some pretty big ones
that we were excited about. So it was good networking
for media exposure to other channels, and it was good

(01:22:23):
for all the new people who had never seen one
before because pretty much anytime people see it in person,
the response is very positive, which is why there's not
I'm sorry, tellofans, there's not a huge focus on bringing
the truck to people who already know about it because
we know you probably like it now, and when you
see it in person, you'll like it more.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
That's probably the same thing that terrifying, Yeah, exactly, it's
like they have a whole following of people on the
East coast and they're all the way here on the
West coast and it's like, come to the eat coast.

Speaker 1 (01:22:52):
They're like, we'll do like a California tour. I hope
they get it out there, but yeah, no, I understand.
It's a lot of money and it's a lot of time.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Yeah, those are employees that have to go out with
the product, make sure that it's safe and it's functioning.

Speaker 1 (01:23:07):
One you gotta drive it or chip it, and it's expensive.
So I know people are like, why don't you just
it's funny. People will come and when we announced open Sauce,
it's like we'll be in the Bay Area and people
are like, when's it coming to Germany? Do you know
what that costs to get a vehicle like that all
the way? You can't just like book a flight on Southwest?

(01:23:28):
Can I throw a truck in the bottom. It's we
would love to bring it as many places as possible,
but I'm sure most of you would agree. More so
than seeing the prototypes, you want the truck to exist
at volume so that you can drive one and own
one and buy one. So making sure we're careful with

(01:23:49):
our spending and putting the money towards production and engineering, right,
that's the main folks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
And try and get the word out as effectively as
possible without breaking the bank.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Right, because you could very easily rack up basically whatever
amount you want, you could spend on marketing. There's no
there's no ceiling. No.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
But it's smart to take it to an event like
Open Sauce because it's so close to us, it's close
to you, and there's a whole bunch of influencers or
people that have a huge following on the internet.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Yeah, post about it. I mean it's a simple post
of just like, check out this quirky little truck, right,
and then they tag Tello and then Tello likes it
or follows it or retweets it or.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Whatever whatever media you're on.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
Yeah, and then everyone gets all excited because it's like, oh, hey,
they tag the brand. The brand very cost effect responded back,
and you got a whole bunch of people interested.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
That turns into good reservation maybe down the line, not
just from the creator possibly, but from followers of that
creator who had no clue this thing existed.

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
Yeah. Yeah, and I think it sticks with them more
when they remember seeing it right, when they're like, oh, yeah,
I found out because they were there and they let
me sit in it and I got to look at
that just makes it feel so much more real than like, yeah,
I was scrolling and an ad popped up. Yeah, that's
how I heard about your company was a Reddit ad.
I see so many scout ads. I'm like, that's maybe

(01:25:12):
what kind of angers me sometimes, like excuse could afford it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:16):
I excused it earlier in the podcast. But at the
same time, like just get the truck out of it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:20):
It's like you don't need to. You don't need to,
Like people want advertising.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
The traveler and that's great, Like the cross the suv
thing looks great, but I don't want the tear give
the truck. I want the truck. Anyways, that just like
if Tello kept on doing yes, the only ones, but
like if Tello was doing it's like yeah, it's I
think I don't know if I did.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
I think they've done so.

Speaker 2 (01:25:44):
But that was something I was a little bit annoyed
by his walk because it's like the products not out.
I get you're trying to get the word out, and
this is an effect.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
They've been very crowdfunding and the advertising kind of helped
with that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:55):
But but I think effectively getting the brand name out
without spending so much is a better tactic.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
So that way that money can go to getting to
production quicker for sure, even if it's low volume, even
if it's out of I mean calling it out of
the garage is maybe a little bit crass, but to
be fair, it's like, if you are actually getting production
level vehicles out there, probably in better quality than.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
A production facility, honestly because you've got people paying attention
to every single thing rather than robot's doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:31):
Yeah, and I mean Devil's advocate to the social media
adds a lot of the time, you can crank out
a bunch for not that much and it's not like
I agree with you. But simultaneously, it's not like a
ten thousand dollars social media boost is like that that's
gonna make or break the production run. When we're talking

(01:26:53):
about tooling and how much money goes into those factories,
like ten grand is it like a drop. That's a
good insight because I I don't know anything about the
marketing advertising side of things. There are some and there
are often promos that those social medias offer where they're like,
if you spend ten, we'll give you thirty thousand worth.

(01:27:15):
So I'm sure, okay, we haven't done much of that
at all, but I'm sure Aptera or Scout probably unlocked
some of those credits where it was just like, we
can spend a little bit and it's not going to
be money that would really help much towards manufacturing, but
just enough so that the marketing team feels like, hey,
we got the word out and we got impressions. But

(01:27:37):
obviously I agree with you if there is a way
to get the same amount of traffic or even half
as much traffic, but by spending a tenth the price
or one hundredth of the price, do that, you know, like,
I'd rather that money go towards even if it's not manufacturing,
just the engineers maybe getting better pay or something. Sure,

(01:27:59):
I would rather them feel more comfortable and secure than
even if it's not like because that's probably their argument,
as they would say, well, we need to spend five
hundred million on tooling, so this little ten thousand dollars
social media campaign isn't going to change that. Sure, but still,
when you're when you're smaller and more capital efficient makes

(01:28:20):
more sense to think like that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:21):
But going back to open sauce, yea with all the
people that sawe and you're talking for ten hours, three
great for three days.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
Yeah, I was tired, but I was passionate to what
was the most common question? Oh besides what is this?
What blew my mind was we had this big board
up with all the specs and I didn't mean to
I don't mean to be rude, but so many people
did not read that board at all, sure, and would
just like how the most basic quit how long is

(01:28:50):
the range? How long can it go and it's right there,
right where you walked in? Or what's the payload? Or
how much does it cost? To course came up a lot,
but not one time did anyone a scoff at the price,
which I found fascinating cool because I was expecting that
based on the responses we get on TikTok TikTok, it's

(01:29:13):
a small vehicle, so if it's small, it has to
be cheap, right, It's they're literally you're using less material,
right like There is some truth to that, but I
don't Yeah, I don't think people realize like that's not
where most money goes, and it's not just on the
exteriors are crap. Ten of these uh what's it called
the pay trucks coming in the United States, and they

(01:29:36):
only cause like five thousand dollars, So I can't you're
you're a similar size, so it should be big, big price,
small small price. So that's been very difficult challenge on
the marketing side.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
It's reassuring, though, at least in person, that people aren't
I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
I'm trying to figure out if maybe in person they
feel like they'll come across as a cheap person, or
they if they're like, I don't want someone to oh
it costs around forty to fifty thousand dollars, and then
they go, oh, that's so expensive. No, if you're if
you're like wanting to come across as successful and cool,

(01:30:11):
you go, oh forty fifty okay, that's cool. But I
was just so perplexed because I talked to I wish
I would have counted at least two hundred people, maybe more,
and almost all of them asked the price, and every
time they were like, oh, that's pretty good, that's that's
pretty reasonable. Okay, every single one I was waiting for
that one guy to be like, oh, that's way too high.
You got to come down and online that's all we get,

(01:30:34):
like at least on TikTok, especially the comments. Literally there's
a comment on one of the reels that were like
this needs to be around ten grand and he got
like fifty likes, And I was like, have you seen
what anything costs like today? Try to get a used Maverick.
Does he spend all day on team or something? Get like,
look at used twenty twenty two Mavericks and tell me

(01:30:56):
if you can find one for I don't think you can't.
They're like this heavily damaged, probably salvage type, like especially
new cars, and then especially new cars from startups. I
personally think it's very reasonably priced. I am biased, but
Dant the Archametto costs like seventeen k or something like that. Yeah, yeah,
that's about right. And that's like a glorified like golf

(01:31:18):
cart or cycling. I've heard they are fun to drive,
but yeah, it's not a road tripper. Obviously. It's not
capable either, like even in the ring, you don't want
to drive. It doesn't have doors. I think they had
some add ons, but still, yeah, yeah, you had to
add on storage. You don't want to you don't want
to drive that thing in bad weather for sure. But no,
that's sevente and the angle that we tried to come

(01:31:41):
at it with because obviously, when Slate came out a
lot of people wanted to compare the pricing with slate,
which obviously slate is cheaper, there's no way around that.
But I tried to angle it more when people are
asking about pricing as slate is very much I think
working as a secondary vehicle, I don't think most are
going to buy a Slate it as their only vehicle. Sure,

(01:32:01):
it's like one hundred and fifty mile range for around
town is fine, and even with the extended range, I
think they go to forty.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Whether it's owned by the user or a company. Yeah,
and that employee uses it as the work vehicle.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Yeah, they use it for one or two specific tasks,
but then you're probably going to keep another car for
when you need to do a road trip or when
you want to hal more people. Four doors sell it
a lot higher volume than the two doors, so we
got a lot of requests to do a Tello as well.
But every time we talked to the fleet buyers, it
was like, no, overwhelming, it wasn't even close. They were

(01:32:38):
all buying the four doors. So that's why the Tello
prioritized that. But I think even Dug Demarrow highlighted that,
yeah he brought not even when you guys were there.
It was like him highlighting just when they reviewed the slate. Yeah,
but I do I do question, like, I don't know
if there's ever been as much financial incentive to two
doors as the slate, Like in the past when they

(01:32:59):
were Jeep and you know, rangers, they think Maverick's always
been four doors. But yeah, the price difference between the
two door truck and the four door was always very
low or very small difference. So I feel like, well,
of course the four door's sold better. But I'm wondering
if because slide is so much cheaper, maybe there will
be a resurgence in people willing to go two doors.

(01:33:20):
I'm not sure we'll see. But basically, when people would
ask about them, I would say, it's a cool truck,
We're excited for them, but they're a secondary approach. You're
going to keep your existing car alongside the slate. The
Tello is trying to be more the only car. I
think it's going to be the secondary vehicle. It's going
to be like you can fit car seats in the back,

(01:33:41):
you can take your family and have the high range,
and right you could get rid of your existing car
and this could replace it. I don't mean to compare
it to like an F one fifty, but you see
F on fifties these days, and they're mainly just their
family cars with that bad exactly. And that's the Tello
is a very very small compact version of that, but

(01:34:02):
it is it's still a family car. Yeah, it's servicing
that need, or at least that want from a majority
of the market right now.

Speaker 2 (01:34:11):
Right, Like, you look at what people are buying, and
I guess what companies are building is crossovers. So people
want that space, even though that the average amount of
people in the car is one point five yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
Whatever, that average is now normal. And so of course,
as we've learned, people buy cars for the yearly usage
is not the daily usage. Right. It's like, even if
it's something I do once a year, I want a
car that can do that. You know. Sure, that's why
people buy trucks. It's not because they're towing every day sometimes,

(01:34:43):
but it's like occasionally I want the option to do that.
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
So I've got six seats in my truck, yep, and
we don't use that six seat really much every because
it's between me and my wife, but it's always the
center console, right, And we've only used it, I think
maybe two or three times.

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
But when you needed to, I'm sure it was awesome option.

Speaker 2 (01:35:05):
Well, like we we're going to like a pumpkin patch
or something like that with some friends. I think that
was the last time we used it, is we had
friends coming or we're going to pick them up, and
they were saying, well, we could just take two cars.

Speaker 1 (01:35:16):
It's like, we don't have to. We could take the truck.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
And the truck's great because then all the pumpkins that
we're getting from the pumpkin patch sit in the back
of the truck, and then the whole party of people
fits into the truck and we don't have to take
a second vehicle.

Speaker 1 (01:35:30):
For sure.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
It's I mean, it's a very efficient way of doing it.
It's a little bit inconvenient because then like you have
to stop by different locations drop people off. But like
it's it's a use case that only comes up, was it.
We've owned the truck five years, it's only come up
like two or three times, So it's not even like
once a year basis that we are using the capability

(01:35:55):
of it. But it's still something we consider. And so
the same thing with like the Tello. Yeah, it's something
that people are designing or they are buying for just
in case, and even if they don't have people, they're
gonna put their stuff in there.

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
Yeah, and there's not I don't think there's a single
right solution. You know, a lot of people. I think
the slate will be perfect. You know, I'd like for
a lot of applications, that's all they need. They want
the entry price to be as low as possible to
keep it simple, and we need that on the market.
Like it's almost like an unverse of like phones.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
So like you look at like Apple and it's like, well,
of course someone's going to buy an iPhone, and then
they might buy a MacBook and then also an iPad.
Those are three different products, very different, and then you
try to sell them like something that's a hybrid of them.
Like you look at the Microsoft surface where it's trying

(01:36:49):
to be a laptop and a table or whatever and
like it. It does, okay, but typically people go for
the surface laptop, yeah, because they want more of a
laptop feel and having like a table or like flip phones,
I guess is where I'm trying my butt's going to.
It is like, yeah, there's a market for it, But
do you see people replacing this flip phone or I guess,

(01:37:12):
replacing their tablets and their phones with yeah, a flip phone.

Speaker 1 (01:37:16):
Not really.

Speaker 2 (01:37:16):
They still probably have a tablet or a regular phone
for sure, but they have that flip phone because they
had that option. And that's what people do with vehicles.
It's a weird inverse.

Speaker 1 (01:37:27):
Way of it, but like that's what people shop for. Yeah, no,
And I'm glad. I am so thankful because I remember
in the early days before Slate, before tell O, by
first cars a Ford Ranger, and it just did not
feel like that market was being served at all. It
was just all trucks were getting bigger and bigger and

(01:37:47):
they weren't going in the opposite direction, and even the
electric ones were huge. And I remember on our show
even talking about Man the cyber truck's cool before we
found out how expensive it was going to get and
the exterior was gonna have so many problems with it.
But before that, we kept saying I would be more
interested in a smaller cyber truck if they ever did

(01:38:09):
it much. That was something that was the Wolverine. Yeah
a point. I don't think it's happening, but no, but
still I recall even back then it was like the
brands didn't exist yet, but there was talk of like, yeah,
making a smaller truck would be way cool if you
could still get the range high and it would be

(01:38:32):
way more energy efficient. So now it's awesome to finally
see investment and tooling and manufacturing actually going into making
many trucks a reality. Well at least an interest in it,
oh for sure. Yeah, and not just like.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
The startups saying that, hey, we're gonna build it and
people are gonna buy it, like you see reservation numbers
and you see people talking about it. Yeah, it's exciting
and it is actually showing mm hmm there is interest
for that product, oh for sure. And that will make
the legacy auto companies turn their heads.

Speaker 1 (01:39:02):
Well, it's a it's a key part of the market,
I feel like, because pickup trucks are so popular, especially
in the USA and EBS. I feel like have mostly
pretty much tackled the crossover segment. They've overdone it a
little more than tackled. Yeah's got three or four different
versions covered it, Like, Okay, we don't need more electric crossovers,

(01:39:24):
Like if that's what you need out of a car,
there's many great electric options and more to come, even
with the R two and the Lucid mid size are
gonna be even better than what's on the market. So
it's like, Okay, we're good. The same kind of story
with sedans, not to the same extent with the options,
but it's kind of verse. There's a lot of great
electric sedans you can choose from, and they're efficient, they're fast,

(01:39:47):
they get good range. It's like, okay, we're good on sedans.
But then you've got this pickup truck space that's very
popular but kind of struggling to go electric because they
can't make them as zero dynamic, they're kind of inefficient
by nature, by size, and so it's a fascinating segment
that we're kind of finally seeing I think tackled the

(01:40:09):
right way, which is, no, you don't just keep the
gargantuan truck and throw a bunch of batteries in it.
You lean into the efficiency by making it smaller or
making it more arrow, and that lets you actually have
practical range with a reasonable battery and still a lot
of utility out of it when you rethink how trucks

(01:40:31):
are made. So I think we even mentioned that on
this podcast as well, with Jim Farley going on records. Yeah,
he mentioned that we can't keep making these big vehicles,
like pretty much admitting we are sinking a bunch of
money right into these f one fifty lightnings in this
Ford Motor Company and we can't sustain it in I
think he straight up said at one point he was
like with our combustion engines, we found the bigger they were,

(01:40:54):
the more profitable they were, and with evs it's the opposite.
It's like the smaller more efficient we go, the more
profitable they are, which is important because you need a
profitable product for the company to really I.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
Think I've said this as well before the podcast. I
would really love, and this is probably very controversial, if
they made an electric Mustang that isn't the monkey.

Speaker 1 (01:41:18):
Oh yeah, they take the current.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
Six I think or whatever I would get the Mustang. Yeah,
and just put a battery in it. Give it like
the stupid I mean, you don't even have to make
it similar to the Daytona charger ridiculousness.

Speaker 1 (01:41:34):
You don't need to do that. But like, give it
the ionic six and interior you can hear revving or.

Speaker 2 (01:41:40):
Yeah, well the revving, but then also all the gimmicks
of you can paddle shift it the inefficient but whatever,
and then one pedal drifting and all that, because that's
what people like with their Mustangs is the driving experience, right,
It's not about the sound.

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
The sound is good, but.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
It's all about the experience of driving a Mustang.

Speaker 1 (01:42:02):
I could see why that's a hot pick, but I
agree with it. I know a lot of people that
are like, no, I'm glad Ford kept the real Mustang.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):
They're the only one making muscle cars right now, right,
that's gas I should say, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:13):
And then the Machi is obviously much more of a
mass market like crossover. Second, it's their new Ford Edge
but done right and just drained it wrong, I think
because they were instantly like it's the best selling Mustang. Like, okay,
my wife yields to that though, like she's a huge

(01:42:34):
Mustang fan. Yeah, she owned a Mustang for a while
and then it broke down.

Speaker 2 (01:42:38):
But like she she's like, it's not a Mustang.

Speaker 3 (01:42:43):
But okay, Yeah, if that's what it takes for the
Mustang brand to be around, it means that the current
Mustangs have some justification with their name being best selling
in some regard.

Speaker 1 (01:42:56):
Okay, okay, whatever. Yeah, No, it's a I'm curious to
see what other electric option. Obviously, Aptera is kind of
reinventing the segment. I don't even know. Sedan doesn't feel
right for that vehicle. It's kind of in its own
world quirky. It's very quirky. It's very quirky, super unique.

(01:43:17):
But I love it. I'm a huge fan of Like,
I would still totally drive one today, right, it would
have been very useful today. Honestly, any time it's two
people or fewer, I drive an Appara same that would
be it. So that's where my mind is at as well.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
It's like, even though I've got a truck in a crossover,
I think, well, driving the truck is a daily driver
for my wife isn't necessarily the best situation, and so
what I would think is having her or me have
a third option, even though it's costly. I have three
vehicles for two people. Sure, it would be nice to

(01:43:53):
have something that one of us could take when we
don't need to drive the truck.

Speaker 1 (01:43:58):
That uses like almost no power.

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
Yeah, well, I mean it could be something that. So
of course her mind goes to a Mustang. Sure, but
then there's issues with maintenance and all that, which it's
a cost that then we have to worry about.

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
Doesn't fuel itself.

Speaker 2 (01:44:15):
No, so my mind goes to like an ap Terra. Yeah,
like that'd be great, but you can't buy that. And
then my other part of my mind goes to, like, yeah,
Dodge Daytona at the right price. Yeah, even though how
ridiculous it is, wouldn't actually be bad to entertain.

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
No, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:44:33):
Yeah, what I'm shopping for is like I mean, not
shopping for actively, but something like a two seater, whether
it's an apt Terra, Mustang gas or electric.

Speaker 1 (01:44:43):
But it has to be like I would still be
pretty fun though. It would. It'd be quick. Yeah, it's
not gonna rev like a Mustang obviously, it doesn't need to. No,
it would still get around fast, and you could probably
feel like you're quarnering pretty well, right, it'd be fun.

Speaker 2 (01:44:58):
But yeah, well, and the point being, like we talk
about Slate having one hundred and fifty miles, and even
if like the Aptara or a Mustang that was an
Evy or whatever, or the Daytona at that price, if
they made a version of that, if it had one
hundred and fifty miles, I would honestly be okay with it.

(01:45:19):
You could live with that, because it's not meant to
be the road tripping vehicle. That's for the Model Y
and the RAM to take care of.

Speaker 1 (01:45:26):
It's not getting a ton of This.

Speaker 2 (01:45:28):
Third vehicle is all about driving to work and driving back.
It's just the quote unquote work vehicle for commuting.

Speaker 1 (01:45:35):
Yeah, that's the cycle life thing comes to my mind,
which is what attracts me to the ap Terras. Even
with the nickel batteries, that's such a long range that
even if you're just daily driving it, you're really being
gentle on that pack. You're not cycling it much, right
because for what I mean, it's topping itself off constantly,

(01:45:55):
which is cool. But also, let's say over the extrap light,
over the years, you drive sixty miles a day, that's
a very tiny portion of that four hundred mile pack
versus one hundred and fifty mile pack, especially if it's
sitting on in the sun all day as well. True. Yeah,
and even if you did replace the battery pack, it's
way smaller than yeah, most other packs, which is quinite

(01:46:17):
of cool. So, yeah, it's just a shame it's taken
so long. I'm sure they're frustrated how long it's taken too.
We're frustrated with it, yeah, but they're probably they're on
a whole other level of frustrated, I'm sure. But yeah,
I hope they get there, hopeful all the best, but yeah,
I would be very curious that. Again, the market is
kind of it's never been explored before. There's never been

(01:46:39):
a self powered vehicle like that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:42):
So outside of university projects yeah, right, or government projects.

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
Yeah, So we don't really have a firm idea how
many people would be willing to buy that and at
what price.

Speaker 2 (01:46:53):
And so the closest thing we've got was like a
Nissan Leaf with the solar package, yeah, and that don't
really do much besides or the AC.

Speaker 1 (01:47:02):
Right, and that's not the same range and all. There's
a bunch of differences, but yeah, so I'm very curious.
It's still I'm still excited for the future lot to
look for.

Speaker 2 (01:47:12):
I'm very optimistic about it, even though it's like very
uncertain times and things seem very bleak when you look
at the news or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:47:18):
The news makes it seem bleak.

Speaker 2 (01:47:19):
But there's still a lot of cool things that people
are pitching in terms of ideas, and engineers aren't stopping. No,
the companies aren't stopping because they need to stay afloat, right,
and if they need to stay afloat, then they need
engineers to work on new ideas to sell to the customer. Yeah,
and preferably you have the engineers do it, because if
you have the managers or the marketing people do it,

(01:47:40):
it's gonna be a very inauthentic gimmick that isn't really
going to drive sales right exactly, and not foster a
positive outlook on the brand, where typically if it comes
from an engineer, there is a lot of thought that
goes into it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
Yeah, which is needed. Yeah, for sure, Well are you good? There?
A good pause? Pause? Pause for another six months, and
then I don't want to pause for another six months
to be fair when we can make the time. But
it's cool to do it in person, so much better
than this dang zoom call. Yeah. I don't think people understand.

Speaker 2 (01:48:17):
I mean, maybe we've echoed it so many times in
the past, but like doing in person.

Speaker 1 (01:48:20):
Like just feels quicker. Yeah, or at least I.

Speaker 2 (01:48:23):
Can inject yeah and it doesn't seem like I'm stomping on.

Speaker 1 (01:48:26):
Your what did yea? So maybe maybe we'll I don't
know how frequent we can keep these up, but maybe
he keeps the employed and you're still doing uh, maybe
we'll just do him in person for a while. I'll
try to convince Randy he's got to come up. Yeah,
you's got to come see it. He talked about that publicly.

(01:48:48):
We can say that, Oh yeah, he's in California right now,
is he. Yeah, you gotta come up. We'll record with
it anyway. That's that's your challenge, Brandy. You gotta if
you're listening, then they want to come up. You gotta
come visit. We want to Thanks for listening, y'all. Yeah,
good day, see you all again.

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
I mean, it's great to allow us to talk with
you again, or at least welcome us into your ears.

Speaker 1 (01:49:15):
Nice. Yeah, sorry, it's taken to the long It's my
fault mostly, but I'll blame you. That's fine, I'll take
the blame.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
I mean, I've been working my own projects on the side,
like loaded with free time either. But I'm not like
building like a rocket ship or anything like that in
the backyard, or like an EV project car or anything
like that, but like.

Speaker 1 (01:49:35):
Loads of motors, that's next. That's we have hats. Oh
I thought we're doing tailors of rocket tramps. I'll take
down the nose cone, the combined there's rockets cars.

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
This is gonna be the whole cyber tracting that you mean,
Nick and Randy would rave about.

Speaker 1 (01:49:49):
We'll take pre orders and say they're coming next year
for fifty years ago. That sounds good, all right. By