HRCC Goes to DefCon

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Go time. What is going on, ladies, gentlemen. I'm Frank
cage Gie five h JA. We got a fun show
lined up for you. We got Josh in the background.
We're gonna be talking about some deaf coom. But we're
gonna start the show as always by play that awesome
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(00:41):
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go ahead and bring on our awesome guest as soon
as he gets the cap cup gone. You're here. How's

(03:31):
it going, man? How are you doing today? Josh?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
I'm doing well. I am kind of having a lazy Sunday.
I should be editing videos. Sunday is a good day
for editing, but kind of just late about hung out
with the family.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
That's it.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
That's all I've been doing. Now you've been doing, I've
been doing good.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Tuesdays is my one of my main days. I edit videos.
I go to the cigar bar. Jason joins me occasionally,
and I edit up there and I get a good
hour and a half before all my friends come in.
And then I just shut the laptop and we just
bs the rest of the night and drink some of
bourbon fun. Yeah, that's really cool.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, I love that on a Tuesday too, man, God,
partying on a Tuesday. I can't get away with that
anymore with my work schedule. But more power to you.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Man. The guys who are there are like almost daily,
and when I was unemployed, I was joining the day crew.
There was like they're up there at eleven or noon
and they stayed there until like four or five o'clock,
and then it rotates to the guys getting off of work.
So you have the older gentleman in the afternoon than
the ones that actually have to go to work coming

(04:38):
in after that.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
And the day drinking crew. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes indeed.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
And the the I was telling you this quick story
during COVID since I'm a regular up there, they shut
the shop for a while and it was curb pickup only.
So I drove up in Sapphire and I parked and
the guy came out looked at me. He's like, Okay,
I know what you drive now, credit card. I'm like
what He's like, you can't come to the store. Just
give me your credit card, but you don't know what

(05:09):
I Frank, I know what you want. Give me your
credit card, and he comes out with like a bundle
of cigars. He's like, these are yours, thank you. We'll
see you in a week.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
And next time, can't you come in the store.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
What happened? Oh, it was during COVID, the one that Yeah,
so you're gonna have.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
To drink in the parking lot, Frank, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (05:30):
So the next week I pulled up. He just came
out the bundle of cigars and and I gave him
the credit card. He's just like they just came out.
It was awesome. I loved it.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
That's cool. That's cool.

Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, So Josh, you recently, well not recently, about a
month and plus ago now, but it was a weekend
before Huntsville, Alabama. You were in Las Vegas for a
whole It's def Con four days, four event days.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
My understanding is yet, so I think it starts like
the evening of Wednesday and it goes through Sunday. Now,
I will I will preface this right everybody watching. I
was a first timer to deaf Con. So that is
like a slightly less blind person leading fully blind people
who haven't been. It is a massive show. There's so

(06:20):
much depth to it, and particularly like what facet of
what you do at the show could make you so
absorbed into that that you may missed incredibly large portions
of the show. So just keep in mind that I'm
telling you one person's experience. When human beings experience, it

(06:40):
is a vast show.

Speaker 1 (06:42):
They're vast like it's conference rooms of large venue concert rooms,
like how many like rooms they have like four or
five six big ballrooms, a fold of stuff.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's have you ever been to the Las Vegas Convention Center?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
No, I've been to Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
So it is it is the Las agus Convention Center.
The room that it's in, I believe it was in
the west the West Hall. It is three stories tall, right,
so already you're you're talking about three different levels, and
it's almost like it gets narrower as it gets to
the top. But there are on the first floor there
are multiple huge like show floors and defcon fills all

(07:22):
of them up. So there is an area that's for
the retail space, which is a lot of the stuff
that I bought home things that I bought. Then there
is an area that's for talks, like so think of
any of the hamfests we go to. You now, like
there's little rooms for that. Well, they had a huge
show floor that was divided up with curtains for all
the different tracks of talks. Now, I think you've got

(07:45):
some links for Hacker Tracker is an app you used
to kind of like try and navigate the show, but
it is. It's crazy. It's hacker Tracker will give you
a listing of all the talks during the week, basically
oh w and you will screw roll for a long
time to get through even just one day. There are

(08:07):
so many talks, more talks than I don't even I
didn't even really go to any of the talks. It
was just insane how much there was to do. Sadly,
we arrived Friday night, which means we really only had
Saturday and Sunday. And I would argue that kind of
like a Hamfest, the Sundays are they slow down. People

(08:28):
start wrapping things up, they start folding up the villages
and closing up shop and all that stuff. So if
you have the wherewithal, you should go on Wednesday, get
that whole first day vibe action and then take it
through Thursday, Friday and Saturday. And that's like that would
be amazing because you'll be able to see a lot more.

(08:50):
I just did not have the time.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Yeah, it's just the number of talks here. It's just wild.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, it's crazy, and I think you have well, so
those are those are different shows? Oh that's actually the
hacker tracker. Apple will show you different shows. I don't
know how you would go back to the death pond
that just passed. You have to.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Oh that's what I'm seeing here.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, you're right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So like b Sides
is another fun con and all that stuff, and they
have different kind of satellite shows. But I don't know
how you'd go back and look at it. You'd have
to figure that out. But it's like you have to
filter it almost to be able to just get what
you're looking for. So I was looking for RF, I
was looking for amateur radio, and I was looking for

(09:34):
like lock picking physical security stuff. And so that's probably
a good you know, jumping off point to mention that.
So you've got you've got the show floor, the talks floor,
and then the floor next to it is a village's floor.
So the villages are kind of broken up into industry areas,
technical areas, hobbyist areas, that kind of thing. So there

(09:56):
is an aerospace Village, which I will I'll show my
my overhead shot right here. So on that far right
hand side that badge that is a listing of all
the planes, the ADSB planes that are flying overhead. That
badge we picked up at the Aerospace village. So like
lockeed Martin was there and a couple of other companies
were there, and they have these fun little projects you

(10:17):
can do and stuff like that. But the villages are
generally tailored around a technical area. So kind of on
the other side of the villages is the RF village,
which is different from amateur radio. Right, so RF technologies
like you know, Wi Fi, bluetooth, hacking, all kinds of
stuff in that area, and the villages cover all the gamas.

(10:39):
There's like a physical security lock picking village. There's a
social engineering village, which I found fascinating. There's of course
amateur Radio Village, which was on the very top floor,
and so the villages spread from the top floor all
the way down in the big main lobby or the
big hall area, and then also just in their own
little private rooms, and amateur Radio is one of the

(11:00):
ones that had its kind of own little private.

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Room thank you Blue Boy for the super chet. You're
amazing and also done. Thank you for the ten gifted
subs that rocks. And and you said, and I watched
your Defcon videos and was super jealous. And you're Brian
Brushwood hanging out with him spontaneous. Come on, let's keep

(11:26):
on walking, let's go check all this stuff out. And
you mentioned that this is a family friendly con.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Right, very much so. In fact, the wife has greenlit
going back and actually all of us going for the
full week. That's how I enjoyed it. So take that
for what it's worth. Now, keep in mind that my
kids are kind of little techy nerds too. They're in robots, robotics,
and they've already taken some cybersecurity classes and stuff like that.

(11:58):
So what happens. There's a village that's specifically designed for kids,
and it's called next Gen, so next Generation, and there
are a group of volunteers, some of them are called goons.
They wear like the red outfits and whatnot, and they're
very very helpful. But they had a whole track of
talks aimed for the youth in this Next Gen village,

(12:20):
and it was a nice little spot kids could go to.
They were like they had some emulators set up for gaming.
They had fun little lights, you know, glow in the dark,
wristbands and stuff like that, all kinds of fun stuff.
But what's really cool about next Gen is they give
you this little kind of an RFID bracelet. I think
that's what it was. But it was a little bracelet
that the kids wore, and it had two buttons, one

(12:41):
that would beam there like ID, and then another one
that would receive IDs, and it had this led light
strip that went across the side. And the goal was
to go meet other kids and beam your RFIDs back
and forth to each other, but also visit the villages
and talks and attempt to complete the challenges that they

(13:03):
created for next Gen. And if you did that, one
of the volunteers that was at the village's booth would
beam a special code from their bracelet to the child's
bracelet and they could collect more points that way. So
the Aerospace Village was really really cool. They had like
a micro controller that was connected to a computer and

(13:26):
there was a very simple kind of tutorial on doing
some low level commanding, or not really low level, but
some more machine level commanding, and the kids could see it.
They could run through this process and the goal it
was connected to like a lego technic's airplane and the
propellers are spinning, and the goal was to show how
you could speed up and slow down the motor. And

(13:47):
specifically because it's got a hacker bend to it, they're like,
we're attempting to set the motors to a certain speed
that will cause the plane to stall and crash. And
so the kids had to go in there and follow
this perconure to send the different commands and when they
found the right speed, smoke would actually come out of
the plane. And this was kind of the first time

(14:10):
where Edison, my youngest, had actually seen actual commands like
issued on the via the command line, and he was
he was not having it. Like in his roboting background,
they've been doing wizzywig programming, which is like you know,
drag a block an IF block, and then underneath the
IF block you have certain conditions and statements and stuff
like that. So like that's all he knew. And so

(14:32):
the fact that he had this like archaic like ASKI
level character sequence he had to send for the motor
to understand like, oh, I need to slow down He's like,
why can't I just said go slow or why can't
I all heeded about it, and the guy, the volunteer guy,
was like, I don't know what to say to this kid.
He's like, you help me out here, and I'm like, yeah,
let me talk to him. It was really interesting. He

(14:55):
kind of got frustrated with it, but he was he
was glad that he eventually got through it. But so
you go around all these villages, the kids are running
around like crazy, which, by the way, is why I
think my wife wants to do the full week because
most of the kids already had like two days head
start on my kids.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
So they that drove her nuts because she's like almost like, yeah,
completion is then I want to do everything.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
And she was not happy, not ecstatic about that. But anyway,
so they did a bunch and at the end of
the show, basically Next Gen does like a party night.
So this would be like Saturday night, and the kids
will take their bracelets and they'll you know, beam their
final score and it'll show up on like a leaderboard.

(15:40):
And they had just a pile of prizes like projectors,
like little micro projectors and technology bits and all this
stuff and so when my kids went up, they got,
you know, their own little things they got to pick,
and it was based off of how high you were
on the leaderboard was when you got to go pick
prizes off the off the table. My youngest when he
got called, he went and got a lock pick set.

(16:03):
So now we've got a nine year old in the
house with lock picking skills.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
That's just that's probably anascinating it was.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
It was really freaky because one of the villages, the
lock Picking Villages, which is sponsored by tool Tool. The
band just tables no tooo l throw two. Okay, it's
like a it's kind of like a preservation society of
lock picking. I'm probably using the wrong words for that,
but they support lock picking rights, like they'll have a

(16:31):
list of all the states and what their kind of
rules are if you can carry lock picks or you can't,
Like if you're traveling, like I travel, I generally have
lock pick somewhere in my bag, depending on what state
I'm in, like Ohio is a little iffy. But anyway,
so they had all these banquet tables, big like ten
person tables, and there's just lock scattered all over it
with lock picks that go from like one pin all

(16:55):
the way up to like five or six pins. And
sure enough, my youngest sat down, he the one pin
in a couple of minutes, had never lock picked before,
ended up knocking out a full five pin lock in
I don't know, an hour or so. So he like
was a natural and I'm like, oh man, this is
not good giving Edison these kind of skills, so that
that's a thing that we now have to worry about.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
But yeah, it's a good skill to have. But when
you're younger, when you got younger kids around.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I think lockpicking kind of gives you the the It
helps you see the world for what it really is. Right,
A lock is not some impervious thing. It's more or
less just a way of having an agreement that we
have faith based security. Like I put this lock on
this thing, this master lock, the strongest, most toughest lock

(17:45):
in the world, and I just have faith that you know,
when I come back to it, my boat's still going
to be there. Right Like in reality, you just know
locks are just not.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
That social anyway. Social contract. Yeah, I put this on here.
We all agree you're not going to go past the
type thing.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, that's kind of what it is is it's like,
you know, here's a rough contract that we've got. Locke says,
don't do this. But then also if they wanted to
do it, there's nothing really stopping them. Bolt cutters and
lock picks are easy.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yeah, yep, Well that's that's awesome. That's so much fun.
And what about some of the other villages. Did you
go check out the Ham Radio Village and the RF Village?

Speaker 2 (18:22):
I did, and so what they had was was pretty cool.
So of course Ham Radio Village they were running a
separate room for licensing. Now at the end of the weekend,
there's a lot of volunteers. At the end of the weekend,
I was told that there was somewhere between two hundred
and fifty and four hundred people that were licensed or
upgraded that weekend. Oh, which is an outrageously large number.

(18:45):
So those guys did a fantastic you have.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Like were they doing classes on site and teaching people
the rules of regulations and the easy stuff till you
just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I don't know if they had a Ham jam, but legit,
somebody came up to me, They're like, holy, holy crap,
you're here, And I was like, yeah, you know, hey,
you know, thanks for saying hi, and they're like, no,
you don't understand. I got to the airport and I
went to your Technician Crash Course license exam. I watched
all the videos on the flight over here. I got

(19:17):
off the plane and I took the test and I passed.
You did you did the have radio crash course? That
is the official crash course now is you get on
a plane, you watch all the videos, you get off
of it, you take the exam, and then you're you're done.
So it was it was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (19:34):
That's awesome, That's awesome. And the one that was pretty
cool and did they have a unique badge for the
Ham Radio Village.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
They had a couple of unique swag things which I'll
show shortly but to give you a rundown of. So
that was the testing area. Then there was the other room,
which is like the village room proper. And in the
Village room they had numerous radio chets set up. They
had you know, an HF radio with a mag loops
so they could have it inside. The show they had
which I think has to be taken and we got

(20:03):
to duplicate this at a ham Fest. They had an
SSTV station set up on like two meters right, so
you could while you were at the show, you could
transmit SSTV and that radio would pick it up. So
I was doing that. I was going around the show
taking pictures of stuff, and then I was using my
VGC radio to do SSTV and I was blasting it

(20:25):
up to the village and people were seeing like where
I was at and what I was doing.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Because it was awesome.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah, so I was like, oh, that's really cool. We
should think about doing something like that. And then I
realized this could get a little Somebody could just throw
any kind of picture up on the screen and be like.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
I wonder if there's a prover so they down. How
fast did your image pop up?

Speaker 2 (20:47):
When it was just dropping them? It was just straight, dude.
There was no buffering around, no or somebody else find
the curtains.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
Especially a def con once people realize they'd be throwing
everything up because those flippers, and those flippers can do
just about anything.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
I don't think the flippers will do flippers don't do
anything below four hundred megahertz, I'm pretty sure, and it
won't do. It doesn't do SSTV. So you would have
to have like something for SSTV. But I think that
the defcun community, if somebody did something a little racy,
they they probably wouldn't freak out as much because that
community is way more used to the weird side of

(21:25):
the Internet. I was thinking more that it probably wouldn't
work in a ham fest because any slight, you know,
would would probably piss some ham off and then that
would be the end of that. But my video, when
I panned around the the amateur radio village, there was
a shot of the SSTV screen and somebody had taken
your buddy Jesus from the Kevin Smith movie. Yeah, so

(21:47):
there's like a meme. It's like the same thing where
he's got the thumbs up, but they made him look
like Satan and they gave him horns. And I'm all
I did was simply pan across the room. I don't
even know that it was in frame for more than
a couple of seconds. And I had a comment like, oh,
how dare you pute put a picture of Satan on
your video, and blah blah blah. I'm like, bro, it's
a meme. Calm down. So I can only imagine what

(22:11):
SSTV would be like if they did that. Anyway, the
vibe is cool though they got like lights are a
little dim. They got like black lights and little bit
of lasers and there's like a presentation going on in
the background. They did talks throughout the week, so all
kinds of things, a lot of satellites, a lot of
satellite talk. Mestastic was outrageous. There was more mesh tastic

(22:34):
notes than I had ever seen. And the Amaterado village
had some of that stuff going on as well, which
was really really cool. But to be honest with you,
because of how much I was bouncing around like a pinball,
I don't think I spent more than two hours, maybe
max in the village area that village, because I just

(22:55):
wanted to get out there and see what I could.
It was just so much going on.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
There's so much, there's so many different areas and aspects
of go and look at Glenn. Yeah, Glenn Man, thank
you for the super chat. You are awesome. Oh I
had something else. It left me. I've been bad at
that today.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Well, I can show some pictures, go some other stuff
while you think and just interrupt me, just interruptly, because
I think it might help a little bit. So I
did get some questions on like what did I bring?
And so if you've ever seen me in a ham Fest,
I'm usually rocking my Peak Design camera bag and it
had the VGC radio and the shoulder strap and then
what you can't see there is the I brought the

(23:36):
t X five hundred MP, so the man pack, and
I did actually take it outside and the view of
the convention Center on the second or third floor actually
looks out over where the Las Vegas Sphere is, So
that was pretty cool. The badge situation, so is this
gonna update there? It is? Yeah, So the Defcon badge.
Every year there is like a new badge, and it

(23:59):
kind of goes back and forth between like a techie
badge that does some kind of cool electronic y things
and then like an artsy badge. And so this year
was the Artsy badge, and it was a color filter
type of thing, and so you it actually would slide
and then there was like three color filters, like a
red blue green kind of thing or red yellow blue,
and you could hold it up to the art at

(24:20):
the show and it would like show you like hidden
messages and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Which is, oh, that's that's awesome. Yeah, So there was
no badge badge hacking this year, so it was it
that not one.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Right, not on the not on the the main standard
badge that everybody gets. There, there's plenty of other badges,
like there's always there's like a hobby within a hobby
of people collecting badges because often the villages will have badges,
not all of them. The Aerospace village probably had the
best one for the last two years or so from
my point of view. The one I didn't get though,

(24:54):
which I really really am kicking myself that I didn't
is they had a laser tag badge, so it was
like a little badge. It had like a gun with
a radical on it, and you kind of just would
go around and snite people. And there were people that
were going up on the third floor and the second
floor and fire and down at people that had the
badges off of down on the first larbes. It was
really really cool. But something to mention up front is

(25:19):
I couldn't treat Defcon like I would like a ham Fast,
where I'm just kind of allowed to just record and
everything's cool, because there's people that you know they're in
the security area and they don't want to be on
the internet, right, So they have a pretty elaborate photo policy.
The basic rule of you know rule is you want
to just have the subject in frame of the video,

(25:41):
and you must ask them before you actually start recording them,
whether it's a still image or video, and just be
cognizant of what's in the background, Like you don't want
a bunch of people to beat walking through and getting
them on the video if you can avoid it. Now,
with that said, the policy's very clear, relatively limited. There
were a ton of people that just violated that and

(26:02):
kind of did whatever they wanted. But I saw no
one get asked to leave or delete photos or anything
like that. So you know, take that.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
So if the if that person is the subject, is
polite to ask them before they get on camera. Is
was there any worried about accidental like people in the
background or you like you said, you scan the whole
convention center with the camera like this, the the zoom
of oh my god, this room is so big and full.

(26:29):
But is that accepted it?

Speaker 2 (26:32):
It was pretty it was pretty clear that you shouldn't
do that. But at the same time, like if they're
way off in the distance. It's kind of hard for
cameras to pick up that level of details, so you're
not really seeing a lot of them if you catch
my drift. So I just kind of framed things so
there weren't many people in the background, and I didn't
really shoot any video. Later later in hindsight, I could

(26:53):
have gone to all the vendors and shot video with them,
Like Devan, all of them was there, and I missed him.
I saw it for like a moment. Obviously we did
something with Brian Brushwood. Hack five was there. There was
a number of other like really really cool sparrows, lock
picks is there, and so I should have shot more
videos with all of them. At the same time that

(27:14):
that stuff is more like in my personal nerdy hobby
area and it's not really amateur radio related, so I
would have assumed the videos would have probably tagged in
views anyway. So I was like, as not much of
a big Did.

Speaker 1 (27:26):
You have a special media bad sewing that you're going
to short suit more video than the average person.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
No, and that does not exist at all. And so
Jeff Jeff is he had a comment there is no
expectation of privacy in public they argue, it's not public.
You paid to come to the convention, and the convention
has rules, and that one of those rules is their
photography and video rule, and if you violate it, they
can ask you to leave. That's just what it is,

(27:53):
you know, So I'd have a problem with it. I'm
not complaining here. It's just like, hey, it is what
it is. When you're in Rome, you do as the
Romans do. Deff gonn is what is this? Thirty thirty two.
This is my first one, and I live in soun
of California, and I've been like a part of these
relatively a part of a lot of these groups for
this long and I haven't gone kicking myself kicking.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
It's always been on my radar. But the price point,
we'll probably talk about that later, is that that's the will. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
So there's there's Brian Brush, the absolute legend. This man
is a force of nature. Like I literally hop down.
He's like, where are you at? Man? And I'm like,
I'm walking over to you and he's and it was
just the moment I saw him, were just hitting the
ground running. He already started working on that video that
he ended up posting Brian's awesome. He's got so many

(28:40):
cool ideas. I can't wait to hang out with him again.
I'm trying to cook something up to be able to
get out there, but now my schedule has become a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
You better let me know when you come come down
to Texas because I will. I will definitely be there.
I'll hold your cameo. Er.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Public is not public, man, don't just make statements. It's
not true. That's a private show. You have to pay
to get in. They have security that don't let you in.
You pay. You're saying you're going to follow the rules.
If you don't follow the rules, to kick you out,
no big deal. You can say whatever you want, but
it's not true. So I was using my little e
ink display on my N seventy six and those are
images I'm taking and doing SSTV with. So that's what's

(29:21):
going up to the Hammer Radio Village and what they're seeing,
which is really cool. Let's see that. One can't do that.
So here is let's see Is this the RF village?
I think it is, so should mention this as well.
So I mentioned RF village is more specific more about
like Bluetooth Wi Fi hacking a number of other things

(29:41):
kind of in that adjacent area. So what some of
the villages have, which is really cool, is they have CTFs.
I'm assuming that means capture the flags, and the capture
of the flag will be like a list of all
these challenges that you have to complete. So one of
the RF Village challenges had amateur radio involve of bouncing
an APRS packet off of the ISS for instance, and

(30:04):
then showing one of the folks who run in the
show like, yeah, I did this, being able to record
a certain Wi Fi ID or be able to like
I don't know if it was just blatantly break into
this Wi Fi, but everything was set up and staged
for these different challenges to hit upon, and so you
saw a lot of this, Like when you were in

(30:24):
the RF Village area Boose, you know there's a radio
over there. I see a that's a hack RF, which
there was a ton of these at the show. This
is a hack RF device which is basically an SDR
that's running a special hat so the top part with
the control and has different software on it for doing

(30:45):
different RF things. A lot of like recording RF and
that fun stuff. So saw a lot of that. The
CTF was one of the things I regret not being
able to be a part of. I probably will talk
to some folks next time, maybe get a team going
and see if we can knock out some of these challenges,
because I think a HAM on a team like this,

(31:07):
we would we would kick butt because we know a
pretty good amount of like what's going on in the background.
Let's see. So that's one of the little suitcases. I
think that was ADSB that they were showing. That was
at the RF village and another Yeah, RF village. You

(31:27):
can see this little suitcase to the right. There's antenna
sticking off of it and all kinds of different computers.
These look like like a Wi Fi war drivers, so
these can pick up like a ton of SSD SSIDs
for Wi Fi.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Hm.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yes, it is a porta pack. So here is here
is my uh mesh tastic So that's eleven hundred nodes.

Speaker 1 (31:49):
That that was the question when we were talking about Mestastic.
How was the network or did they release another special
mess tastic firmware load that can hand They did?

Speaker 2 (32:02):
They did, Yeah, it's I guess I wouldn't call it
like a special firmware It's just it's been tweaked with
the right settings so that all these people can be
on the same network at the same time. And what
they did, and you know how there's like a long
fast or you know whatever, so this was like extra
short or extremely short and fast was the was the

(32:23):
basic setup. And yeah, there was gosh, how many image
Let's see how many messages was that?

Speaker 1 (32:31):
What did I do?

Speaker 2 (32:33):
That was like I was using mesh tastic in the
hotel room, kind of asking questions for people who kind
of have been there before. Mesh Tastic was great because
I wasn't in one of the like party hotels. I
was just in the hotel that was kind of by
the convention center with the family, and we were able
to cover all of Las Vegas pretty much like the
downtown area with mesh tastic because people had set up

(32:55):
some high high vantage point nodes. But eleven, we'll actually
see a node that's higher than that. I'll mention this
because my wife hard on this. There's a like a
Jewish bakery that's right outside the convention hall and there
was like a line out the door in the i
don't know, one hundred and something degree heat of Las Vegas,
trying to get in and get either a Jewish Bristrami

(33:17):
sandwich or some of these doughnuts which which Leah got,
which were very good.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Oh that looks amazing.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Uh, there's twelve forty one. So the numbers just kept
going up. There's another show of the sphere and I've
got a couple images here, I think. So this was
the note that I brought. This was the the H
two T. This is the the newer one fourteen board.
So it's the kind of like the upgrade for the
hell tech board that we've been using. It doesn't let

(33:44):
me play video for some reason, but that was my
kid that was doing soldering. Yeah, apparently video.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
That's the tech. Wait go back to Is that the
Tesla Tunnel?

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, so that's a bit of a hack, is it?

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (33:56):
It is playing? Okay, Sorry I wasn't looking at the screen.
So that we have is we stayed at the Hampton
Suites that's right by the convention Center, but the hotel
is right next to the South Hall, and so what
we had to do was walk out of the hotel,
walk over to the Tesla Loop and basically say I

(34:17):
just need to go from the South Hall to the
West Hall and the ride was free. We didn't have
to pay anything.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
And you get on the Tesla's that are already pre
stays there.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Yeah, they're like, we had my wife is you know
tank you already mentioned. My wife is like fairly focuses
on the planning, and she was like, why would I
stay at a hotel that's miles away from the site
and then have to pay to go back and forth.
What if we just stayed at the convention center and
then just use this Tesla shuttle system And so yeah,

(34:49):
that's that's kind of what we did. It was it
was very effective.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
The number of lines on that tunnel, like I don't
know if there are scrapes or whatnot, are purposely done.
That was concerning to me.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Uh yeah, So apparently they do crash occasionally because they're
human driven. I think there was a desire at some
point to have them all you know, auto piloted, but
they can't get it working, so they just they just
manually drive them. And if that's incorrect, I apologize.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I think that's dragging something. Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (35:21):
Yeah. And we my wife asked a bunch of questions about,
you know, the all how they run all this, but yeah,
those are human beings that are just driving those Those
teslas are an all day. But let's see these are
some of the swag items. We can talk about that
in a little bit. I'm looking for that cracks me
up because that's the badge. It'll play videos. So people
just had videos on with their badge walking around.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
It was.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
It was really cool. So that's like just part of
some of the maps from Meshtastic. It was it was insane.
And as far as quality of service, so the basic
way to look at that is if your dots there
are below that twenty five percent line, you've got a
really really good network. And as it starts to go
north of that to fifty, you could get some dropouts.

(36:07):
But largely I didn't experience any big problems. So it
was it was. It was really effective. I had like
very little problem. But yeah, we were we were hanging
out radio side or pool side playing radio, which this
was in my video that I did for the for
the the t what's five hundred mp.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Oh, that's that's the radio.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, so that's the radio that I was kind of
walking around the show with. That'll do APRS on HF
and packet and some other stuff too, So I was
playing around with some fun stuff when when I was there,
it was it was really cool. A lot of the
hands of the village. I kind of passing around and
let people play with it. It was it was a
really good time there. I will mention that there's a
lot of contests too, so I guess this has been

(36:52):
going on for a really long time. But one of
the contests is who can get a beer from room
temperature to drink temperature as fast as possible? And so
this is one of the entrants I believe is they
have this setup to chill water I guess very very cold,
but so that you could get a beer at an
acceptable temperature as fast as possible. And so that was

(37:14):
the That was the competition that that village was putting on.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
If you just drink whiskey, you don't have to chill it.
Yeah either, And.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
So this is the This is actually the Ham Radio village.
Their challenge. Their challenge was called what was it? Ham?
It will it? Will it can it Ham? So the
idea behind it was they had a bunch of junk
on the table and it was you can see cans
like foil the Pringles container, and they had a couple

(37:44):
of different frequency sets that you could try to build
an antenna on, and then they judged it for you know,
how well it was able. You know, one, it was
a good match to a fifty Oho radio, so your
sw R was acceptable. And then I think they did
some kind of a radiation test for power output against
the standard radio. So it was pretty cool. I don't

(38:04):
remember who the winner was.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
Did you try?

Speaker 2 (38:07):
Also had no because I didn't have the time so
all this stuff. If I was there for the whole week,
I might I might have participated in some of this
stuff a little bit more, but with the family and
running around finding Brian, Brian kept me pretty busy. They
also had a fox hunt, so the fox hunt was
was quite ingenius. I think I might have let's see

(38:30):
do they show I'll see if I've got that. Maybe not,
I'm kind of just I don't remember. This is b
roll or not. Yeah. These are some of the finished
product projects that people had made for their Cannon Cannon ham.
Some of them are pretty ingenious. I think I've got
one though, Yes, yes, okay, here is the fox So
it's the bad So you had to be like a

(38:53):
volunteer or something like that. But they literally were just
walking around the show. You had to find the people
with fox Hunt badges to be able to get points
for participating in the fox Hunt. Very there's the other one.
There's another one. Uh huh, yeah, so you have to
find the guy. Yeah, you have to find the people
walking around. Yep. It was pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
That is so amazing and and and just ing genius.
They just made it a part of the badge and
a low battery and that's all you need.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it worked. It worked out really well.
There was a number of people, a lot of couples
I saw. It was really cool. There was a couple
of you know, couples that were going around with their antennas.
Obviously not trying to stab anybody in the eye because
like there's wall to wall people, so having a full
on you know, arrow antenna just you know, banging people
in the head with that is is not advising some

(39:45):
of that loops.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Yeah, like a board a little uh. I seen them
with a little antenna like circuit boards. It's like a
little yaggy and the yaggy is printed in the board.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
That's that might have worked. What a lot of people
were using were these like Competition, fox Hunt or It's
like a handle that you hold and there's a loop
on the outside, and that kind of gives you directionality
bi directional directionality that works really well. What you had
to do, more often than not was add attenuation. You
didn't need to get gained so much as you needed

(40:15):
directionality without gain, so loops are really good for that.
And then you also needed the ability to attenuate the
signal down because if you were walking up to somebody
that's got one of these your radio, even if you
had a directional antenna, it's going to perceive it as
just power everywhere. It's everywhere, so you have to drop
the attenuation so that you can narrow it back to

(40:36):
a directional type of alignment. Yeah, it was pretty cool though.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
I don't remember what a lot of this is, so
this is probably just be real. I would show, oh, no,
this is the antenna set up they had. So the
antenna that went to the upstairs actually was just a
seventeen foot whip in the back of the show. They
showed me that. I was like, there you go, buddy,
make it it happen, which is pretty cool. Yeah, and
their radio for the special events station that they're running

(41:06):
is seventy six to ten and so yeah, it was
well used. Yeah, so that was the antenna for that radio.
That's right. Let's see. This is the new Wi Fi
Pineapple from Hack five, which if anybody's familiar with Hack five, don't,
I don't really need to go too much into the weeds.
Hack five is a channel here on YouTube. You've probably

(41:29):
heard of them, but they make these fun little devices
that do have security testing of different type of networks
like Wi Fi and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Pin testing.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, sure, let's go with pen testing. But this is
the new device that they kind of introduced at the show,
and I got one myself. I couldn't help myself because
my first pager was actually cheddar cheese yellow like that one.
So I had to get I had to get one
over and yes, I I'm old enough to have a pager.

(42:02):
I did take Let's see, I think I can. No,
we'll skip over these.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
Perfect frame it for you hit your head there, all right, No,
you're wearing something, okay, and I thought that was behind you. Yeah, okay, No, No.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
They had at the at the next Gen they handed
out fun little light up things and whatnot, and the
kids got tired of wearing it, so that means dad
has to wear it. But this is some of the
crew that was doing the volunteering. Also, Kevin on the
far right is the one who does who made the
preparedness corner drop for our podcast. Actually that's the that's
the guy in the right. But they thought that it

(42:36):
would be really fun to where's the video, Let's see
if we can advance it. My son's actually trying to
do this right now, so you can see this is
quite the dead I saw it there. Yeah, So they
thought it would be fun to to tab me drink malort.
That is a tradition that they have so when they're

(42:58):
done and throughout the the event, you know, as people
are getting license, they you know, they have them drink alort,
which I'm like, ooh.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Jesus, how did that get started?

Speaker 2 (43:07):
I don't know. I don't know. There's probably a Chicago
at in that group, but I.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Know the first time presenters get interrupted during their first
presentation to take a shot with the organizers. But malorts,
Oh no, yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
I'm not I don't love malort. I won't say that,
but it's probably not the worst thing I've ever drank,
and then you know, a series of fun swag that's
actually that's actually Alika. I had to run over to
a camera store and they had this whole section for
Leica cameras. I had to get myself out of there
like asap because who, buddy, that's a that's a whole thing.

(43:45):
So anyway, I think that's about it. Yeah, yeah, that
was the Those were the approved frequencies that they were
running for the show. Yeah, all in all, very very
well done. I missed out on a ton of things. Obviously,
I went to no talks, So I can only recommend
that you guys go check out the def Con YouTube

(44:07):
channel because they are actually uploading a lot of the
talks that were on the main floor to their YouTube channel,
so you can you can go through and do it
that way, which is Yeah, that's really cool. I've already
watched a ton of stuff on meantastic. I've yeah, you've
already got it up here, so you can.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
You can share the link earlier.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Mm hmmm, yeah, so this is this is fantastic. It
takes a long time because there is a ton of talks,
an absolute ton.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, did they are they're already posting the new talks
of this year. That's awesome. A bunch of h just
walk around, Oh this regular panels cool cool.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah. Yeah. And so basically if the main floor that
I mentioned that had the talks kind of sectioned off
with the curtains and whatnot, all of those were recorded.
All of those are uploaded. So the only ones that
are like don't get uploaded are the ones that happen
in the in the village areas away from that area,
and there are a number of those. There's also some

(45:12):
more difficult to get into talks like you're almost on
like an invite, an invitation type of thing. You kind
of have to be like an old head of going
to def con, or are kind of well known in
certain industry areas to get to go to some of these.
There is a lot that is I don't know that
they're consciously trying to make it a bit obvious gated,

(45:35):
but because of the size of deaf Con and the
many many things going on, a lot of it is
very compartmentalized to area, to different groups of volunteers, and
they kind of just say, okay, you go handle that,
and you go handle that and so your your your
websites you'd go to for like the Amateur Radio Village,
that's just those guys doing that. In the RF Village,

(45:56):
that's just those guys, and they kind of try and
link them all together other on the Defcon main site.
But there's a lot of stuff that you kind of
figure out once you start talking to people at the show.
They don't really want you to know what's to expect, obviously,
aside from the talks and that certain villages will be there,

(46:17):
but there's a number of cool things that you kind
of have to be there to experience. And I think
that's part of why people keep coming back year after year,
is that there's a certain kind of magic of stuff
that's like that yeah didn't Yeah, didn't expect that to
be a thing. It's like, oh, my gosh, okay. And
so it's not just like oh, new product got released, Hey,
how cool. No, it's like, oh, this special event thing

(46:38):
they're doing, you know, some of the CTF stuff, the challenges,
you know, the badge hacking. Of course year after you know,
every two years or so, there's there's just there's just
a lot to do. I almost feel like you got
to ask me to come back in five years from now,
and I'll have a much better kind of thought process

(46:58):
on all of it after after going multiple years, because
it's it's it's crazy, it's it's a it's a yeah,
it's an adventure. Sounds like a pretty awesome adventure. That's
exactly what I would say. And particularly if you're cybersecurity minded,
if you if you do this kind of stuff for
your job and you're a ham you should already be
going to this and there's just no question. Yeah, there's
just no question.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
So so you're gonna go again next year, So that
means you're going to be like on the road a
week before uh or like the like the week for
def Con they come back and then get on the
road two days later to come to Huntsville, Alabama for
the ham Fest.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
I think I did that like for every major ham
Fest this year. I was I was weekend to weekend
doing some kind of travel. So, uh, Hamvention, I had
the same thing. I think I had the same thing
at ham Cash. I had a lot of travel this
year between the camp out and just going to different
places either on vacation because I did Hawaii this year too.

(48:00):
It was literally just boom, boom boom, jumping all over
the place.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yeah, because I think I got back from ham ventionin
and the following week we went to Hawaii. It's either
that or the weekend after that. But yeah, pretty crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
I had a month like that too. We were at
Colorado doing the and you're always invited to join us
for those trips, Josh, I.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
Would love to tank like you're like, You're like me, right,
we have PTO. We we have to we have to,
you know, treasure our PTO and ration it off year
after year. I'm at the I'm at the point where
I changed careers from one large aerospace company called Boeing
ten years ago to another large aerospace company I'm now

(48:44):
ten years is when you're you're kind of vest faster
on the PTO path. Yeah, so I'm like, yes, all right,
the things you gotta start getting more pea.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I recently got that new job and now I'm at
the bottom again. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
So I don't know that I could negotiate a new
job without having just some kind of stupid PTO, like
a rate of I just don't know how.

Speaker 1 (49:08):
Like some companies, I went in and said I want
this much and They're like, we can't do that, and
I was like, well you're really If you really want me,
that is going to be a talking point, we'll go
through the interviews and then we'll come back to it.
And some of them got back to me and others
did it. The ones that said that they will allow
that much PTO would say, Okay, you know you want

(49:31):
to hit five years, you get another week, and when
you hit this mark, you get another week. We're just
going to give it all to the lump. So you're
not going to get any more add on. Yeah. I
was like, I can live with that.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
But yeah, yeah, there's a there's a number of like
good comments too, Like Ian said, skip Huntsville, deaf Conn
is so much cooler, So I would say that it.
Deaf Conn should definitely be in a rotation. And if
you had to sub out a Hamfast for one of them,
I think it. I think you should. We haven't got

(50:02):
to the cost factor yet, maybe maybe Frank saving that
for towards the end here, but there is a there's
a cost.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Oh but I wanted the talk badges before we went
down the cost route. Yes, because you got a lot
of cool swag.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
I did so I would only I would only say
a couple of them are actual badges, right, So the
the aerospace one, and I'll slide over here so we
can we can talk to it a bit. But the
aerospace badge is is literally connected to an ADSB and
ten I have outside my my house, and it's pulling
in all the planes at seas and I believe if

(50:38):
I go back and I go up to radar scope,
those are all the planes that it's modeling on this
kind of faux radar screen.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
How close are you to the airport?

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Oh, I'm I'm close to lax and Fullerton Airport, but.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
I'm close here. I'll probably be exact the same thing.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
I can hear all the way down for planes that
are flying over like Mexico, like Tijuana.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
So yeah, I have a pretty nice location with you know,
relatively open airways. But it does a lot more than that.
I have a video to go into greater detail. But
believe it or not, this was last year's badge. This
year's badge is actually this little helmet and what it
does is it actually will let you do airband receiving

(51:29):
of radio. It'll also receive AM FM broadcast stations. So
you plug in your earbuds here and it kind of
uses that as an antenna. And if you're outside and
you've got you know, good direct line of site, you
can pick up airband. And they have a number of
presets that are loaded in here. Let's see if I
can get in there. Yeah, so Las Atis, las is,

(51:53):
you know, Las Vegas. But all of these are lax.
I'd have to go in there and reprogram them for
like the local area, local frequencies. So that's I did
buy this because it was just kind of too cool
not to did.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
You have to buy? So you had to buy both parts.
You had to buy last year's badge and then the
this year's secondary co bonit.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Yeah, so you could of course buy you know, give
this power somehow and it will do its thing. I
don't know how much of the radio is on this
board versus this board. With that said, yeah, it's an
add on. So you take the bait the main board
here and then you add this to it and it works.
But there's all kinds of there's a discord for this
board this bad and I'm on the discord and I

(52:42):
haven't had time to sit down and really really play
with it. Aside from what you saw on my video.
But there's a number of people who reached out to
me and said, oh man, you you don't even know
about all the secrets of this thing. What's what's on
this thing? You got to really look into it, because
I think, let me, let me dive into this really fast.
It has a Game Boy emulator, it has an acilloscope.

(53:04):
It has a GPS tracker which I can't get the
GPS working right now. There's a clock the media players
where you can literally change like to pre cased videos
and you can load other videos too, which is which
is really cool. So you can go through you know,
the Earth, and of course you got to do the
top gun volleyball scene. Yes that's my hilarious but yeah,

(53:27):
there's a lot of cool stuff. So as far as
other badges, so I did get the velcrow Ham Radio
Village badge, if you want to call it that. I
unfortunately did not get a Fox. I'll try to help
them out next year volunteer maybe a little bit so
I can be a roving Fox. That would be fun.
This was cool though, So I love their I like
their their logo. I think it's it's really awesome. Swag

(53:50):
was everywhere, Stickers upon stickers. That's one of the big
things that they Oh, that magnet, I think just a
that every said that's hilarious. Yeah, I think I shorted
that out with the magnet there. The swag is off
the charts. There's people just handing you stuff as you
as you walk around, like literally stickers. This one was

(54:12):
one of the I think best from my chat. They
said no touchy beyond this point and Tenna go burr.
It's like throw this on the like right next to
your your atos, you know, one twenty so people don't
mess with it. This would be good for that. Somebody
handed me this just little this is what's his name
Belushi from Animal House that they made a PCB flashing badge.

(54:37):
So I just went I was like, oh, yeah, I
got to have one of those. They handed it to me.
We did that video with Sparrow's lock picks. I'm a
old school I've been using Sparrow's for a really long time.
So I jokingly called this, Yeah, give me one of
those slammers. I want one of these slammers, and so
they gave me.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
They give me one of those you said, POGs are
coming back I love it.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
POGs are back, man al alf is back in pog form.
That's right. Poker chips. Obviously, if you're in Las Vegas,
you get a lot of poker chips. The goon bucks,
I'm not really so this is not mine, this is
my son's. They each got one. One of the goons
gave them each each one of these. They're not supposed

(55:16):
to go to other people. They're really only supposed to
go to kids. So they each got one of those.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
What is that for?

Speaker 2 (55:22):
It is there a special It's literal money that they
can exchange. Like the goons are the volunteers. They wear
like red so you can find them easily. They help
people like that's their that's their entire job. Uh, they
can exchange It's literally dollar value for like getting lunch
and getting drinks.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Okay, so they get a bag of these, okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
And then I got a whole bunch of lock picks,
which I don't know how interested anybody is on the
lock picks, but I went kind of hard on that too,
because I absolutely love.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
I need to get better at lock picks. And you
got a leashy I did.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Yeah, they were all they had all of them I
got the Schleg one because so the way I look
at it and the guy was actually tool. Turns out
that that he watches us on YouTube. He knew me
and he and he was like, oh, dude, you're here.
That's so awesome. And I'm like, so help me out
because I know these are these are lock specific. So
this is the Schleg, the Schleg model of the leashy tool.

(56:20):
And he's like, well, how strong of a lock picker
are you? And I'm like, I'm pretty confident. You know,
I can I can handle some security pins and all
that stuff. And he goes, do you have any problem
with quicksets? And I'm like, now, I've never had a
problem with quick sets. He's like, okay, don't get don't
get the quick set, get the Shleg because they can
sometimes use more security pins and these guys are kind
of designed for that. So this is the key, if

(56:41):
you will. It slides into the to the actual keyway
and then you apply the pressure or the torqueah and
then you use this little uh feeler arm to go
in and manipulate the pins. And what's cool about this
is you can actually gauge with this little get it
in there a little bit you engage there we go

(57:03):
maybe hold on, hold on, come on now, focus, I think.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
I see it.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
Yeah, you can gauge the pinning by the number chart here.
So if you had to actually you like, if you
wanted to make a key without having the key you
know in your hand to take to you know, lows
or whatever, you can just actually go in there and
decode it and then you can actually take that in
and cut a key that's especially for for that lock.

(57:32):
So it's a really cool tool. It's you just have
to know if you need something like that or not.
Do I really need it now? But is it cool? Yes?

Speaker 1 (57:44):
You know so that that can the talking about lock
and pick Set's that knife? Yes?

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Yeah? So this is the the Sparrows. I believe it's
called the Escort. I could be wrong, but it it
has it has a tension wrench that's kind of built
into the the lockside of the of the knife, if
you will, And then it's got a series of picks
for me. I don't really use the half diamond, I

(58:10):
don't really use the little cat's foot. I usually just
use these back four uh, and even then I don't
need like two bogatas the city Rake is nice single
pin of course, and then I like the the first Bogata,
the modified one I don't really use as much, but
yeah that was Uh got gotta have one of those.
So that's now permanent E d C type stuff. I

(58:32):
carry that around with me almost every I.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Think Texas is not one of those good states where
you can actively walk around before. I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah it doesn't. That doesn't surprise me. Yeah,
and literally plastic that that was just they were they
were These were all over the place. You could just
pick them up.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
That's that's so cool, all right. The the one thing
I want to know out of the swag, can you
show me all the coins, because you kind of hinted
on some of the coins you got earlier on one
of your thies, like challenge coins. Did you get any
challenge coins over?

Speaker 2 (59:10):
Are they not?

Speaker 1 (59:11):
So?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
I don't know that I got many. I think I
meant more just all the stuff, so I kind of
would call that a challenge.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
Yeah, I saw the poker chairs. I thought you got
a couple of challenge coins.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
But it might have No, that's not one. I challenge
coins aren't really as big a thing there. Okay, it's
more stickers and patches and funky little things like the
roaches and actual pinout. So that's an SD pinout device,
so you you'd shove that into a computer and you
can go to the different connectors of an SD card.

(59:47):
I don't think I got many challenge coins. I'm sure
I did, and they are have been distributed and because
you know so, it's been a it's been a couple
of months now, so I probably distributed some of that
stuff off into other areas. Wait, wait, hold on, let
me see this. I do actually have a small little
caddy that I put swag like that in, and I'll

(01:00:09):
wonder if ill while.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
You're pulling that up, John's asking, did you get the
hacker RF from Rabbit Labs? Uh? Is that? No? What
is the hacker r F or the the hack r F?

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
That's that's what he's asking.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Oh this thing, this guy, I think that's what he's
talking about, the Mayhem hack r F, the hack pack
or the porta pack. I bought that months ago. It
is a hack r F with a with a porter
pack on top of it. And I don't remember where

(01:00:49):
I bought it because I basically ran around to different
websites until I found the one that had them in stock,
because they were very difficult to get. The poor dea peck, Yes, yeah,
I bought that before going to def Con. I brought
that because I was I was playing around with seeing
what kind of signals were out there when I was

(01:01:09):
on the show. Uh there, I guess the thing that
didn't come up we haven't talked about is the commonly
said phrase of people who I guess don't really know
about deaf Con that uh, oh, bring a burner phone.
You're you're gonna get hacked, blah blah blah. Uh that
that probably was the case at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
But the nineties that there was so lucy goosey and
and look what I can do.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
And I think I think also cell phone technologies, wireless
technologies have gotten a lot better and and so generally
the advice is, uh, don't join any bluetooth anythings that
you don't know, or why don't join any wifis you
don't know? The show actually has very nice encryptied WiFi

(01:01:56):
that that you have like keyed level access to that's
specific for your badge or whatever you got going, so
use that but I wouldn't. I wouldn't use Hotel Wi Fi.
You could use your wireless data. But oftentimes I kind
of just turned it off anyway when I was just
in and around the show, because I didn't want to

(01:02:17):
accidentally I didn't want to accidentally join anything, so I
just kind of turned off the cell phone and the
and the wireless. That became a problem though, because my
wife didn't bring a radio, so I now have to
pack extra for her, because if she had just brought
a radio, we could have just talked on Simplex and
it would have been much easier actually than trying to
call each other because it was a pretty congested.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
A technician, right, she's in general, Ah, I missed that moves.
That's awesome. It's awesome. Kind of what's kind of like,
look at the pricing. How much did like the convention cost?

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
It's five hundred dollars per person, per person, five hundred dollars,
so I think the end it's packed. There's more people
that I would say it's it's probably about like number
for number, probably about the same amount that goes to
ham Benchin, if not a little bit more, probably did

(01:03:17):
def cone, but but pretty close and a lot of
them are you know, industry professionals, and so they're going
to like learn stuff. Right, people are going here to
like learn things. It's fun. They have a lot of fun.
Don't get me wrong. It's like summer camp. They call
it hacker summer camp. But these are people who are
really going to like try and learn something new and interesting.

(01:03:40):
And if you if you think about it that way,
and you're kind of in the space like I am,
then it's worth it. With that said, I know my
company you can make and you know, you make a
case to them and they'll pay to cover it. I
did not do that because I did not want to

(01:04:01):
have to do a talk after I came home at work.
I didn't want to have to touch people a bunch
of stuff. Uh huh. So I could do that next
year though, because it was a it was a pretty
hefty bill. This was kind of a spontaneous thing that
Leigh and I a couple of weeks beforehand were like, Hey,
let's just go to def Con and and she she's like, yeah, why.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
Not before the kids each or is there a lesser price?

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
It ended up being five hundred dollars for the kids.
For me, there was some information that if they are
nine and under, they were they are free. I asked
about it and they said no at the door, So
it would have been awesome, But no, it didn't, It
didn't didn't work out that way. Arguably, I think that

(01:04:47):
I think that the kids probably got more out of
it than I did because they were able to actually
like go to the different villages and learn some stuff
and go to a couple of talks. So from from
my point of view, I think they probably learned more.
And you know, their brain is still growing, if you will,
so they probably got more out of it from an
education standpoint.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
But yeah, and that's not any of the swag or anything.
I still bought all that joke, so I'm out of
pocket even more for that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Don says he spends more at Huntsville each year, but
that's also buying all the stuff. And did you use
or you could use a mestastic family channel? Maybe next year?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Sure? If you had a standalone device, yeah, yeah, like
with a keyboard. Otherwise if you turn off your Bluetooth
and you're not gonna be able to connect.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
To oh, good point, good point. I yeah it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
I can totally understand why people would never ever go
to this, like if they're not in the area of
like what this is about. I totally get that. But
if you're at all inclined in any of this stuff.
By the way, if you're just a Ham and you're
just going to like hang out at the Ham Radio Village,
it's probably you probably wouldn't be able to fill the
whole week with that, right. There's a lot of fun

(01:06:03):
stuff that you can do with the with the the
Fox Hunts and attending some of the talks and all
that stuff, but you would definitely have to branch out
to kind of explore some of the other areas. The
RF Village obviously being one of them that was, you know,
kind of right in line, so you kind of have
to be willing to explore the other stuff going on,
like you know, Bluetooth Wi Fi, Meshtastic. There's so many

(01:06:24):
talks about Meshtastic this year. It was it was crazy.
There was actually a zero Day exploit that was executed
at the show against Meshtastic. They waited, yes, they waited
until the show and then they they did an exploit
on Meshtastic, which I don't know all the details of it.
It was nothing that major but the Meshtastic team, I

(01:06:45):
believe we're pretty busy that week.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I hope that they they did give notice and what
did they found everything? And then they're like, oh, and
we're going to do a talk because I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
I don't know. I just I kind of heard about it.
There was some rumblings about it at the show, and
then I never really looked into it further because I
got too busy. So now Chris Chris Bricker does mention,
I'd be more scared to go to black Hat. Now.
I do want to make sure people understand this. So

(01:07:19):
black Hat is like the full industry side of this,
of cyber security, that space, like so many of the
corporate players are there, Government agencies with three letters are
there at at black Hat, and that is one week

(01:07:41):
before Defcon. So if you are truly truly in the space,
there are people who go to both weeks like they're
there kind of back to back. They stay over. In fact,
they'll they'll spend one week at the hotel that's closer
to black Hat and then they'll change hotels for def Con.
Def Con is very much more of a youth the
youth hackerish type of vibe and black hats more of

(01:08:05):
like a corporate, you know, more cyber professional kind of vibe.
So it's it's there. There are different but they are
obviously treading in the same water.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Since you went decided, since y'all decided to go kind
of late to deaf Con, how hard it was to
find a hotel?

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
It wasn't We got the Hampton In. Yeah, the Hampton
In was great. We had a microwave and a refrigerator
and the room was just a two queen room and
we were just there to sleep. The pool closes to
like ten or eleven PM, so when we got out
of the show, we changed into our swim gear and

(01:08:44):
we spent a lot of time poolside because the pool,
I believe, was actually chilled. So it was really nice.
It was really really nice. There was that was that
was very very nice.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
So what time did the show wrapped up then? Because
I thought this went you know to seven eight at night.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
Ah, okay, so good question. The show proper like ends
at five or six or something around I think it's
like five five thirty, but then there's a lot of
late night activities and that you know, starts on the
first day and then kind of goes through and then
obviously def Con is a long legacy of lots of parties.
Again this is hearsay. I have not attended so a

(01:09:22):
lot of parties, but I was with my family, so
I wasn't trying to hop into a you know, you know,
an uber and go all over the place. Plus I
was just kind of tired from from just walking around.
I probably did as much or more walking at def Con,
just going up and down all over the place than

(01:09:43):
I do at ham Vention, which Hamvention ham cash are
usually real high on my steps day. Yeah, so it
was it's a lot of walking.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Yeah, I'm just asking the chat if you have any questions,
we can go ahead and ask them while those are coming.
I did see a question earlier, I think it was
from Dawn. Do you want to tell us the nine
dollar hot dog story? What happened there?

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was a good, good, good question.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
So asking.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'll tell the hold on my wife. What's
up a couple of minutes. Yeah, So the the next gen.
So the kids have the little badges on and I
was just talking to Brian Brushwood. Laya contacted me and
she's like, where are you at? Because at some point
she got tired of walking with us because Brian and
I were getting stopped and people were talking, and yes

(01:10:35):
we people did. Hams were there, came up and talked
to me very nice. I ran out of stickers. I
think I went through more stickers at def Con almost
than I than I Invention. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot.
So ended up saying Leya caught up with me, and
I'm like, hey, let me buy you a soda or
drink and I'll get the kids something. And there's these
little they're kiosks, like the vendoring. The food vendors are

(01:10:56):
Las Vegas Convention Center vendors.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Okay, def Con.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Is predominantly a cat either cash or like tap your phone.
They don't really not to say, they won't take your
credit card, but there's like less of that because of
skimmers and all that stuff. So a lot of people
use like tap to pay on their phone and stuff
like that. But anyway, there's a kid in front of me,
young kid, probably a little bit older than Ben so
I don't know, twelve thirteen kind of thing, and he

(01:11:22):
wanted a hot dog. And so I'm standing there and
he's scrolling his phone. He's not paying attention. The lady
in front of him was almost doing this to like
prove a point. She was just holding the hot dog
and he just didn't notice. She said nothing the whole time,
like she was just waiting for him to look up,
see the hot dog, take it from her exchange funds,
and then walk away. So she was kind of being

(01:11:42):
a little salty, and he looked up finally and realized like,
oh okay, great, and then you know, he was trying
to tap to or no, he was trying to pay cash,
and she said, oh no, we only take card, and
he just goes, oh, okay, never mind then and starts
walking away. And I was like, well, hold on, hold
on you are you just trying to get lunch or something.

(01:12:02):
He's like yeah, I haven't eight And I'm like, oh okay,
I'll just buy you a hot dog. You know what
a hot dog? Right? Two bucks? Kids three three point fifty,
I don't know, nine dollar bear bones hot dog, just
just a regular hot dog with it that's like the hunt. Yeah,
So I paid for this kid's hot dog because I

(01:12:23):
was getting drinks anyway. And my two sons kind of
run up at that point because they're trying to grab
their drinks and all that stuff. And the kid that
I bought the hot dog for turns around and goes, oh,
you're you're doing next gen right, And they're like yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think they were going back and forth saying
it's like we got here late, so we haven't unlocked
all the little you know, the little do dads and whatnot.
He goes, oh, yeah, no problem. Here check this out.

(01:12:43):
Kid whips out a flipper zero hm and and he's like, here,
click your button and then blasts all of the RFIDs
to the kids. Yes, it just unlocks the whole thing,
and I'm like, oh, this is the most def con thing.
This little kid hacker hacked the bad ad early, basically
getting all the r f i ds off of it,

(01:13:04):
and then went around replaying the whole thing back to
other kids. So they were just using flipper zeros to
build this complex r f i D style.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
And how happy was your sons when they did that?
Was the excited or were they a little disappointed that
they didn't do all the things to get them themselves?

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
Well, at the end of the day, they would have
rather attended all the events. But they have a touch
of their touch of their mom in them, so she
was she was bummed out. They were bummed out that
they couldn't complete the badge if you will. And then
sure enough, I paid nine dollars for a hot dog
and the kids like, oh, check this out. Boom boom,
bank bank, You're done.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Here you go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
It was. It was pretty funny. So that was that
was That was nice. That was good to be able
to take care of that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Uh huh, that's awesome. Let's say congratulations, where did it go?
Increased noise, says Jostin. Frank recently got a promotion to
director of information management. Congratulations at a long firm.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
Good for you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
And his kind of question is would what would you
start to be to get into covering Defcon next year?

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
So part of what I said earlier was that there's
not like this kind of printed plan of everything to cover.
They cover a lot of the major events at like
de cont Like there's a pool party, there's a barbecue dinner,
a number of other things that like we probably should
have gone to that, right because I think a lot

(01:14:40):
of that's included in the price. We weren't there yet,
so we couldn't avail ourselves of that which is fine,
but I would I would definitely go to all of
those things, but as far as covering it in my style,
I would probably have to almost have people like come
up to me that knew me and we're like, oh man,

(01:15:01):
you know cool that you're here and say hi, and
then I'd almost have to interview them and say like, hey,
this is you know, next year, thinking this is my
second time to def con. What do I absolutely have
to do as like a ham kind of thing, right,
and then then go do that thing and try and
walk people through the whole deal. I'm I'm a longtime
believer and you kind of have to go to a

(01:15:23):
thing for like the first time before you can start
actively talking about it with any kind of sense other
than just being a full on tourist. So I feel
like the second next year, I'm going to be able
to do a lot more and I'm really excited about
that because like I didn't bring I did bring a flipper,
but I didn't really use it, so I'll have that.

(01:15:43):
I want to participate in the RFCTF, as I mentioned,
so I'm gonna I'm going to go into some of
that and just to tend more of the stuff I
just really wasn't prepared. I kind of just went in
blind and said I'll figure it out when we get there.
And oftentimes that's kind of how I do it, just
to kind of have the most fun as a complete foreigner.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Oh man, I really want to go. I've been wanting
to go to deaf Con for a long time. Jason
and I have been talking about it and it's been
in one of our dream trips to do. But the
one thing that just kind of gets pushed off is
going to def Con, coming back, repacking and being immediately
back on the road. And I've done that many of
times this year, like you, and it's a beaten because

(01:16:24):
when you get back from that second trip. I had
three trips in four weeks this year, and after that
third trip, I was like, I do not want to
go anywhere. I don't want to do anything. I just
want to be at the house. And I stay at
the house for two days and that's unheard of for me.
My girlfriend was like, are you going to go to
the cigar bar soon? Because you haven't done anything. I

(01:16:47):
was like, yeah, I need to get out because I
was just done with traveling and going out.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
I can see that I definitely had some of that
after my whirlwind of travel. As most of my things,
I've now created these processes that I have to do
to be comfortable when I travel, and I've been sticking
to a pretty well so I travel pretty well at
this point. My gear is pretty situated and I bainly

(01:17:13):
only fly Delta, which helps because I got a little
bit of status, so I get bumped up occasionally, which
is nice. But you know, just stuff like that. Yeah.
I again, if you are in the industry, or like
adjacent to the industry, or your hobby space is literally
all like it's a circle over def Con, then you
should go. If you're only going for amateur radio, then

(01:17:35):
it's it's a harder sell. From my point of view.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
I want to go because I always been in. When
I used to work at NCR, I was doing credit
card security and running credit card transactions there. I was
on I was so up on hack five and security
now and and all these spaces and encryptions. And I
had a co worker for me and him was fun

(01:17:59):
for us to start tear it apart the Christian algorithm
themselves and just try to understand at a high level
what's going on. And I was like, oh, I should
have gone back then I could probably pitch it to them.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
But yeah, a company, you'd be surprised it just if
it's a hard sell. Basically say I will come back
and I'll do a talk or I will do something
for the cyber team or blah blah blah, and then
you'll see a lot more doors open up, particularly if
that's your business area.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Okay, I wanted to use this as a last question.
Where'd you get your Flipper? Zero?

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Mm?

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
So I.

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
I bought the Flipper zero when it was still on Kickstarter. Okay,
so I was an original backer of the Flipper. So
I not only have the white flipper, but I have
the very rare black flipper. There's a clear flipper that
I wasn't able to get my hands on because it
kept declining my credit card. Ah, but I have the

(01:18:58):
black flipper, which arguably is the you have to look
it up. It's if you haven't seen one that there's
not many of them out there, so that lives somewhere
safe and secure and quiet. And the white one is
what I use more often than not. Why could you
not get them? Now? What? What's what do you mean?
Are they not available. They get full on.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
Band Don posted a link to Flipper zero dot one.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Oh the yeah, that's okay. So that's one that I
believe they're coming out with. That's an upgrade. But yeah,
you can buy a Flipper zero for two hundred bucks
on the main site. And they've got little attachments and
stuff and I have the Wi Fi dev board and
some other junk. Yeah they're available. Yeah, sweet, it's on Amazon.

(01:19:46):
It's on Amazon. Attachment on Amazon. Yeah, they're cool. Just
no going in what it is. What it is is
a replay device. So if it can if it's an
r f I D or if it's a sub gigahertz
frequencies so like four hundred and up to it's like
twelve hundred or one thousand mega mega hurt, yeah, mega hurts,

(01:20:06):
then it can record that and it can replay it.
There is also a number of hacks that people have
made for doing like rolling number keys or rolling number codes.
It can do some rudimentary pen testing stuff, but you
would have to not take my advice on that. I'm
not going to tell you how to do a lot

(01:20:27):
of stuff. You'll have to go look it up for yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
So they're mostly a replay. I thought they were more
of a general open software defined radio that that you
can load stuff on and do cooler stuff with no.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
So the hack RF is more of an SDR, and
that is that space. The Flipper zero is mainly a
replay device. You can you can load things onto it
and it will it will, it will play whatever you want.
It has some like bad USB stuff, so if you
had like a if you plug it into USB, it'll

(01:21:03):
it'll do something when you plug it in. It has
an RF sorry, an infrared blaster, which by the way,
is like the most powerful infrared that I have, Like
I can use it to turn off TVs from like
a room away.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
Love it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
It does RFID, so like the fun thing for that
is like all of your kids ambos. You can load
it onto your Flipper zero and then if they lose one,
you can just bank the you can dink the controllers
and get all their amibos back. It'll do sub gigahertz.
There's a Wi Fi board if you want to play
around with Wi Fi stuff. It'll do a lot. There's
also a spectrum man or a frequency counter, which is

(01:21:37):
actually really really helpful and it works really really well.
For finding different signals, Like if you're looking for like
like a garage door opener, you can name a garage
door opener at it. You can have the frequency counter
on and it'll tell you what the garage door opener
is doing, and then you can go back and record
on that frequency, capturing that and then you can open
your garage door.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
That kind of That's awesome. That's awesome. Thank you for
coming on giving us your time today. This has been
amazing and fun and I really wanted to go next year.
We'll see if it's in the cards for me. But
what's coming up on your channel and uh and anything
else you want to plug.

Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
Yeah, So I have got a couple of interesting mobile
antennas from comment. So I did another go to the
park shoot a video where we test the performance of
these antennas. Now they offer their they're advertising something interesting
with these with these new antennas, specifically for vehicles that
may not have the best ground plane. So I'll leave

(01:22:38):
that as a hint. So that's gonna be something that's
gonna come up this week. There's also gosh, I got
a couple of things that I have to go back
and do.

Speaker 1 (01:22:47):
But that's that's.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Probably when I'm gonna go edit right now, So stay
tuned tomorrow to see whatever video I drop. Have lots
of systems to get to make your life a series
of systems, and stick to it and always improves. You
get faster and faster and faster. There you go, and
never sleep. That's the other secret. Don't sleep. Yeah, oh

(01:23:11):
I eight hours. Maybe I'll hit one of those every
couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
Uh huh yeah, maybe they lost my audio. I don't
know how that happened. It's though, okay, but uh, thank
you for joining. I really do appreciate it. This, this
has been fun. I will love to have you on
again at a later date for I don't know, we'll
find something.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
We'll find well, let's let's uh next, well before obviously
before then, of course, let's let's meet up. But when
def Con, when we start thinking about def Con next year,
let's let's see if we put together an RF team
or something like that, see if we can take on
the CTF. That might be fun. We we got all
the we got all the folks in the chat. I'm
sure between your chat and my chat and our discords

(01:23:53):
and stuff, we could probably find a good little all
star team to be able to tackle some of the CTFs.
It'd be a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
That be awesome. I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
Hold on, I am gonna go ahead and say thank
y'all for watching. I really do appreciate it. We had
over one hundred people here at one point and that's amazing.
Y'all are awesome. I wanted to give a special thank
you too, Don who gifted ten super chats.

Speaker 2 (01:24:22):
We had.

Speaker 1 (01:24:24):
Blue or Blue Boy with a super Chat, and Glenn
Thompson with a super chat and Wayne at his one
month membership level. Y'all are amazing and awesome. Quick reminder again,
the Tank Radio pint glass mugs are only on pre
sale and you're not gonna be able to get them

(01:24:46):
after we close the pre sale next month, so order
yours now and they'll be shipping in a month or two.
Y'all are amazing. Y'all are awesome. Thank y'all for watching.
Thank you to my YouTube supporters, thank you to all
my Patreon supporters, and thank you for watching. And as always,
go forth and conquer Josh.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Say bye bye, everybody, see you later. Half a great week,
play some radio.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
Love it. Thank you to all my Patreon supporters. You
can support me on Patreon. There's a link in the
description below. And to all my tankers out there, go
forth and conquer

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