June 21, 2025 • 39 mins
Different cards have different images and they may not have similar interpretations because of those images. Today we talk about the five of pentacles and reading meanings and how that can go wrong. I get carried away and waffle on about card creation I hope you enjoy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, Well, welcome to Taro Crazy, a beginner series.
I'm Dorothy, and tonight we're looking at the Five of
Pentacoles and we're going to look at symbolism on other cards.
So it's really important to note that cards copying other decks,
like the right of Deck is probably the most copied
(00:21):
deck around, and it's copied in perfectly. In a lot
of cases, they're not static meanings for the cards, and
I think it's time to really get past that whole idea.
There are foundational support for a concept, you know, and
what is a concept? The concept is the big picture.
(00:43):
This is to give this impression within a card. But
if you buy a deck and they've got a different representation,
then that representation of their image is the Vallid one,
not the other one.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So the problem when.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You learn meanings for cards is you trying to pie
one set of meanings which may have nothing to do
with the cards. I recently just spoke to a girl
who was a bit upset because she'd bought a deck
of card Tariff Witches and in it she'd said to
her her force drawer. She said, oh look I'll give
you a reading. What would you like her mom said
(01:18):
she didn't have a question. She said, I just want
to just a general life advice type of a thing
would be great. She's only doing this to give your
daughter an airring, because her daughter said to me anyway,
she said later she said her mum didn't believe in
the cards. And I'm very much that that's irrelevant here.
But what she'd done is she'd drawn the cards. She'd
(01:39):
gone to the book's meanings without looking at the cards,
without looking at the images. Right away, we're opening these books,
these guide books, and she's gone in there and it's
given her, for the aid of cups that this could
mean an illness or a serious illness. And she's developed
a fear as she's doing the reading, and she's gone,
and you've got to do this, mum. To do that,
(02:01):
you got a terrible illness in your future and it
might even kill you. She's gone from no to ninety
miles because of a dumb guidebook. And I'm saying, really
dumb guidebook. The more information that they give you as
specifics and alternatives are, the less relevant they are. They
are a directive. If you have a directive, it's going
to be a phrase, it's going to be keywords.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Anything more than that is a suggestion. It's an idea,
and it doesn't mean it's awful, but it can be
when it tries to pull up all of these things
that when you're learning, you think I want an answer
that's crystal clear, You're not going to get it. Terror
is an interpretive medium, full stop. So are oracle cards.
(02:43):
I can remember when Dorian virtues nobody buy her cards,
she's scum, when her cards hit the mark in the
nineties and everybody was buying them. They were designed to
be read as a message. That's why they were called
oracle cards. So oracle cards, technically there shouldn't be any
such thing.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
But an oracle was.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
A person who had God's the God's not a god,
the God's voice and air. That is, when they went
into a meditative state, usually they would communicate or commune
with the God to answer or give advice, not so
much answer a single query, but to give advice to
(03:23):
the lord's ladies king.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So whoever could afford it. It wasn't for the.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Common man, even in ancient Greece. So whoever could afford
to drop the notes and the coins in the temple
would get this reading. Now there were all sorts of
things done to validate them. They would blind a priestess,
they would have her lie in water, wrapped in cloth
so that she could go into a meditative state. It's
(03:46):
clearly that the idea of this, the origin of this
is doing something right. But the oracle themselves, the whole
point is to get a message from God. End of story,
and so the gods should say the gods. So when
you put it in that bracket, the oracle cards, why
they were called oracle cards, was that they would give
(04:07):
you a message.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Taro has never done that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's not intended to do that, no matter who creates it.
It's intended to have complex imagery that allows you to
buy into or recognize a general aspect of life. There's
seventy eight of them, there's not one hundred and fifty eight.
But if you add your reversals, you increase the potentials
(04:31):
for how they are interpreted. Not positive negative, but it's
really important. So when we come back to the five
of Pentacols, we got these two cards and ones that
right away. It's not a traditional deck. There was only
even one right away. There are untold other decks out there.
This is just the americanized one when you very well marketed.
(04:52):
When you go to the when you go to another deck,
have a look at the image. If you trying to
align the five of pentacles reasoning, that's Arthur Waite's reasoning
or concept to it. You need to know that it
used to be simply the five of diamonds before he
(05:12):
got his hands on it, and that's what people were
using to interpret. He talked to people, he listened to them,
how are you interpreting these cards? And that was how
it was done. It's the same with auras. For years
there were people that were in the profession of creating
aura cameras that went to aura readers and said, how
are you interpreting these colors? What do they mean to you?
(05:34):
How is it that you're seeing them? And what is
it going to be if I put that in my camera?
Now just says you know, an or a photo is
a real thing, but it's biorhythmic. That means I'm measuring
a part of your body, because that's.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What an aura is. But the interpretation isn't just a word.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
It becomes far more complex because you're reading a human being,
You're reading an animal, you're reading a person, you're reading
somebody's actual state. If you like, we'll come back again
to the Five of Pentacoles. This woman had an issue
because in the Terror of which is we had the
(06:09):
five of Pentacols, had one pentacol as a window at
the back, and you had a woman who was appearing
to console a damaged man. She's romanticized it and changed
the meaning of it. And you want to hear this
perfect to me? People trying to copy the original ones, yeah, na,
what's the point? Just get the originals.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
They're cheaper.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's cheaper to go out and buy the originals. I
saw a set the other day on Reddit where somebody
had grabbed the original images and they put an archway
and a big brown sort of border with the archway
in the middle so you could see only part of
the picture. What's the point If you want to do
it that way, get a book and do bibliomancy and
you'll be away simple. But because if the pictures are irrelevant,
(06:53):
you're not doing taro done and dust it. You are
simply not doing taro. So let's get back five of pentacoles.
If you get a set and you have spent a
whole lot of time learning card meanings for an image.
You're going to struggle when you get a new image,
And so I'm saying, don't do that. Learn by the
pictures first. You can pick up a guidebook. Later you
can have a look at it. If you really get
(07:15):
flummixed with the image, you can look at a keyword
or two, or a phrase. But beyond that, you are reciting.
You're learning language, just as you learn it when you're
five years old.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So that means that.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You look at a picture, you get a word, and
then you get how you use this word. And that's
how you learn what a hammer looks like, and it
tells you what it does, and it tells you what
it is. And that's what you're doing when you use
a guidebook to learn the meaning of cards in terror.
And then we go back to our poor mum who's
been told she's going to have a terrible illness because
(07:47):
a person read a guidebook drawing the aid of cups.
And she went on to say to me, I blame
the guidebook. I can't blame the guidebook. You're the one
who decided to share that serious information with your mum,
And she said, and I wasn't sure about it, and
it's none of it adds are So maybe keep away
from the serious stuff until you can read your cards.
(08:09):
But also, if all you're going to do is read
a guidebook and you're going to recite that, you will
always struggle reading cards. And then if you want a
different deck later, you will really struggle because your brain
will not compute the two. That's how a language works,
visual language words, right, those two go together. The more
open you are with that, the faster you'll learn to
(08:30):
read your cards one. Two, the more efficiently you'll read
your cards. Three, the more flexible you'll be if reading
other decks. I really do pride myself and say I
can read any deck pretty much unless it's just one cat,
two cats three cap for in which case I'm not
reading the picture. I'm going to read the person. Because
the images mean nothing. There needs to be complexity in
(08:53):
the images. And there are beautiful decks out there. I've
got three, and then there are other people with wonderful decks.
Now I've only got one that uses the standard pit cards,
and then I took them back to their originals. I'm
using heart, spades and diamonds and so the picture is everything.
And part of the reason I did that is I've
taught so many people to read taro that I know
(09:15):
they get stuck on this. If they see the word
there that says six or sorry, five of pentcolls their
brain if they've been reading meanings and they've been looking
at another deck, will go to that meaning regardless. So
be more open and you'll have much more fun. But
also you'll read cards a lot better. So lock the
(09:35):
book away, truly lock it away. If you're in the
early stages, if you consider yourself to be a novice
or a newbie, or if you're stuck because of card meanings,
then put it away and then just really focus on
the pictures.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
You can do it.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I've had students that have been reading cards for ten
years get really surprised when I've said, well, what is
your card telling you? After they've tried to tell what
they think it means. What's the card look like? Do
you notice as part of that card? Because I noticed
this part of that card. And they will say, after
ten years of using those cards, they've never even seen
that symbol or that part in the card and never
(10:11):
seen it. So that tells you we're not looking when
our brain is given a task of remembering, and you
can't be intuitive if you're remembering or reciting. So intuitive
response is where you go inside yourself and you take
all of your life experiences and apply it to something
you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We will all do that a.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Little bit differently. We should do it differently. We all
have different experiences. Then, when you are applying that to
another card and you've got two sets of things, do
they look good together, do they work well together? Or
are they in opposition? And you can only do that
from the image when you look at the image and
you get that. So the five of Pentacles, who are
(10:55):
five of pinacles? I would not read it the same
way as I would read or write away five of
pentrocols and my own deck of Victorian Taro, the five
of five of diamonds, I would not read that the
same way either. I've taken the concept, and this is
what a creator will do. You take the concept of
(11:16):
a card after years of studying them too, by the way,
not just reading them, but studying Arthur and Elive is Levi,
and they tell you and a few others there weren't
many for all the commonality that goes on. I went
all the way back to ancient China and had to
look at their origin cards, which is precursor to all
of ours.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And when you look at them, you think.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You know, we've got this concept, we've got this idea,
and we need to have one or else the cards
become pointless. And so for me that became that sense
of being cast out, being isolated, being alone, not having support.
And I see that in my Victorian Taro that very clearly.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But there is a direction to go.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
In the arthurweight Stick, I see that this is like
a loss, a significant loss. So it could be that
in the Victorian Terror. But when you've got nothing that
there's a picture of a man walking down a Victorian street,
Victorian man, and he's walking away. He's got the dark
on his on one side of the street, there's nobody
(12:19):
else in it, and he's holding a suitcase, which tells
you all he's got is all he's got.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So what you infer.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
From that picture is individual, and how you interpret it
is individual, But that picture still has its own legacy.
So this woman's five pinacles with caring for the injured
man takes it into a different realm. I would read
it differently. It does not make it wrong as a card.
The same with this woman who had her aid of
(12:46):
cups in her terror of Witch's deck giving her this
illness meaning, and she was really disappointed about that, and
so on and so on and so on. She was like, well,
I'll throw the deck away if you like the pictures,
just throw the book away. Put the book away. It's
the one that's not serving you. It's the one that's
not helping you, and it's the one that causing you
(13:09):
the problems. It isn't really the cards themselves. So the
five of Pinter calls when I'm looking at the right away,
just as we're clear on that brings to mind to
me being cast out, maybe not being able to see opportunity.
There's a bright window right there. There's warmth and protection
on the other side of that window, but there's a
big brick wall. Neither are looking at the window, neither
(13:30):
are communicating, neither are together, and so there's an isolated
feeling around that may not be able to see opportunities
because of one's mind locking them into a reality or
ideology of poverty, of lack of miserliness. They are all
(13:51):
part of that card. When I am looking at the
Other Ladies card. I'm trying to think who it was.
Now I can't remember the name of the.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Author.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
But when I'm looking at her card, which I don't have,
somebody posted a picture of it. They posted both of them,
saying I can't read this one because it's not like
that one. And all they're telling me is they've learnt
meanings of cards and they're not looking.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
At the picture.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So she's looking at this picture and going, it's too
far different from that for me to read it. And
I'm looking at that picture and going, I would read
it differently. So we still have an injury. The means
head in hand is wrapped and injured. We don't have
that sense of coldness of being outside in the snow,
that kind of bleak feeling that comes with the Five
of Pentacles in Arthur's deck. I have a bleak feeling
(14:36):
in mine, and very isolated. But it's not snowing exactly.
It does look like it would be quite cold in
the shadow. He does definitely look alone. There's no doors
open to him, and he's walking straight ahead and it
doesn't matter what's around him. So when we come back
to this Other Ladies she's got a big round window
behind the peer. With the pentacles, its inferences more relationship oriented.
(15:01):
And I don't like cards that do that because they
just take away the reality of the rest of the
rest of the life that we live, which is relationships
one percent. The rest of your day is work, money, family, whatever.
Oh there is relationships and family, but I'm talking romance,
I guess. So there's this indication in the pentacles there
of a relationship. But it can be a loss of money.
(15:22):
It can be finding oneself bankrupt. It can be my
anxiety and fears, or my fear of loss has driven
me to get rid of everything that I have. Maybe
it pushes people away, depends on how you're reading it.
With her card, we would have that consolation. It looks
like a consolation. There's like, yes, you're hurt, but don't worry.
(15:43):
There's a pat on the face for him. There's a
person there ready to minister to him, but don't worry.
And of course I dislike that gender optic where she's
the one nurturing him. But anyway, don't worry, It'll be okay.
And I think that takes away from the reality of
the card too. It may not be okay, And if
we're going to reater, we need to acknowledge these aspects
(16:04):
where there isn't a happy ending to everything, or to
create a better ending or a better beginning, we might
need to put in some effort work and to do
that constructively, we need to acknowledge what those challenges might be.
So we still have she's got a big light pentacle
(16:24):
behind the couple, but at the same time and neither
of them are looking at it, but it doesn't offer
that sanctuary which the right away car does. He makes
it look like a church. It's not a religious statement.
It's very much a statement of we think of a
church as sanctuary. Even though I personally would never go
to a church for sanctuary. If somebody just put a
(16:46):
house there, I wouldn't necessarily have that same thought.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So it's symbolic for a reason.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So if we think about that and look at that,
and we think, now, what are the fives telling us anyway? Well,
the fives tend to be that moment of disillusionment right gone,
and we've been all fired up, we've started something, we
got all excited by that. Then we've had a moment
where we've had to think, am I doing the right thing.
I could quit now, but we've driven on and then
we get to the five, and the five is where
(17:12):
the challenges show up in life. That's where we've gone
so far down the track that we feel like we've
invested too much to just walk away, or we haven't
invested enough to make it keep going, and so we
feel we're alone. You know, the most alone moments a
person has has nothing to do with romance at all.
(17:33):
It's always going to be that moment where you're remembering pain,
where you're remembering trauma, you're remembering loss, and there's no
way to really share that with anybody because everybody feels
it differently. But if you were in a good state
in your life and you walked up to your partner
or a friend and they're like, oh, why so glum,
(17:53):
and you go, oh, nothing, you know that there's probably
a reason that you may have been thinking about when
your dad died, or you may have been thinking about
when you crash the car. You may have been thinking
about your money worries from ten years ago, even though
you don't have them now, because they're all part of
your body, the part of your being, a part of
your spirit. The part of your experience, and so then
it becomes that second line. We just say, look, I
(18:15):
don't know, I'm okay, I'm fine, and most of it
we are. We are fine, but we don't have to
verbalize that kind of a feeling, which just reminds us that,
you know, life isn't perfect. When we ignore that, and
we ignore the chances to or the opportunity to work
with something that is very clean and clear, then we
(18:38):
deny ourselves the opportunity of foresight. And that's where the
divination part comes in. For Warned is fore armed, with
something that was said to me all the time when
I was learning. For Warned is forearmed, and I've never
forgotten that. And I like to say, you know what,
fore warned gives you foresight That means you can manage
your life better. It doesn't mean everything will go your way,
but it means you'll be happier with how you've managed
(19:00):
what you do have to manage. This can come down
to any part of your life, at any stage of
your life. And when we're looking at that Five of
Pentacles and we're thinking about that sort of isolationist feeling
and that feeling of nobody gets me.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Nobody understands me. I feel sorry for myself.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It's very much a bit of a pity party because
we're ignoring the offering of sanctuary. And that's the part
of that Weight card that's always drawn me the most.
So I read it that way, adapting it to whatever
the query is or the person I'm reading for the
situation or the circumstance or other cards obviously, but I
(19:38):
can remember my first real interpretato of that card was
those who fear loss usually engage loss, and I thought
that was probably quite interesting after I said it at
the time, it just fell out my mouth. But one
of the interesting aspects of looking at different cards is
to look at the pictures, to not look at you know,
(19:59):
if I see a copy cat right a weight, I'm
really dismissive and I'm never going to not be. You
can buy them for eleven to fifteen dollars from anywhere
in the world. There's no copyright on them. They're cheapest chips.
They all look the same if you don't buy somebody's
idea of what they should look like, and then you'll
see all these names. So there's the universal Weight, which
was put out by US Games originally and then there's
(20:20):
just the right of weight RWs, and you'll find most
of those there are exact copies of the originals because
they can and they can make loads of money they
don't have to pay royalties. And then a whole pile
of people try to jump on side and make money
off this, but weren't artistically inclined. So for the rest
of it, it becomes just a matter of if you've
got imagery that you like before you buy it, if
(20:43):
you can go to an app like deckaball, and there
are other apps, but that's one I'm using, and that's
the one I've got my cards on. You can go
along and you can have a look by borrowing a
deck of cards, or you can have a look at
the deck of cards as they're showing them to you,
or you can go to the creator's website. Know that
there's a human being behind the creation, which is really
important now right and see that there's a human being
(21:04):
behind the creation. I had noticed on Amazon a lot
of the cards. I know people talk China, China, China.
If you're in America, just stop. Amazon's been doing this
for years. They've been doing it with audio books. I've
been using fake voices and so on for years and
years and years. But they've also been using grammarly fake
writers as well, which means that they've been generating books
(21:28):
just by putting in a few words. So we've got
a common knowledge of it now, but by the time
the public get hold of anything, I can promise you
big companies have been using it for a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And they've been doing it with cards. US Games have
been doing it with cards. Everybody's been doing it with cards.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So when it comes to the bottom line, if you
are really passionate about reading cards and you'd really like
to do that, well, start and stop.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
With the image. That's it. Start and stop with the image.
It's not a school.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You're not learning to do paperwork in English and all
of that stuff. You're learning to and understand your cards.
When you do understand an image and somebody gives you
another card with the same words on it, like five
of pentacols, you can look at that and go, oh,
that's completely different, and appreciate it and read it for
(22:15):
what it is, because those letters mean nothing. The five
of pentacols was invented in the late eighteen hundreds. For
hundreds of years before there and since then it was
the five of diamonds. When we start thinking about things
in a more broad sense and we're playing around at
the tarot, then it's easier to read the tarot because
(22:36):
just look at it. We say interpret. Well, that's not
reciting meanings. We say read while we're reading an image,
and we do that as humans.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
We do it.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
We take a lot of information by looking at things.
We're really good at it. It's a natural ability that
we have nuance and states and context, all of that
conceptual stuff. In fact, you find that it's much easier
to write a concept with an image then with words.
You'd have to write a book with something you could
(23:05):
do very quickly with an image. And it's meant to
be evocative. It's meant to evoke in emotions. So when
you look at a card like the five of Pinnacles,
one whose author I don't name, when you look at
that card, there's a certain amount of feeling, like a
compassion in there. And when you look at Arthur Waites,
he's none at all. Who's to say either one of
those is correct unless you're choosing to follow a meaning
(23:28):
that actually was made up. It was made up by
a guy they're all made up by somebody, and there
is no authority on that. His authority comes in his book,
not as cards. As cards are okay, but they're not
always relevant to a modern world either. Neither Isle Normand
and Normand was a game of hope. It was just
a game like snakes and letters, and so it was
(23:50):
made up. They're all made up. So think very clearly
about where the importance of the cards come from. And
they come from a combination of entu of response for
a lot that would include clear voyance and reading energy
and understanding the concept of the image. So whoever the
artist was, whatever the image they tried to create. When
(24:13):
I created the Sacred Soul's Oracle Deck, it was never
really designed to be how do I put this? It
was I designed it with the idea of reading for yourself.
They were compolition compilation cards full of symbology, and the
genuine symbols. Now a lot of them you'd get and
(24:33):
you'd have your own glossary of terms. There's cherry blossoms
in one, for example, you could think spring, or you
could think it's a time of renewal, right, and then
in others there's kia, which you don't even know what
it is unless you're in New Zealand. It's a bird,
but it's a naughty bird and he's running away with
two wedding rings. So you might need the book. But
the book has three hundred and fifty symbols more than
(24:56):
three hundred and fifty symbols described in it, not how
you read the card, so on that one I've based
it on. When you look at the image you are.
The intention was that you would find the one thing
in that image that really drew your attention. Most people
can't hold that discipline, by the way, over the years
that I was using them, and I would say, here
we go, here's the card, which is the one thing
(25:17):
in that image that draws you. That quite often go
this and this and this and this, and they've described
the whole card. So I just take the first thing,
because always the first thing is what were most attracted to.
And so then I would from there I would do
the reading for them. But if you're doing that for yourself,
you're to open the book, you go to that card page,
you go to that symbol, and you have an oracle
(25:38):
type reading.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Now you have a message.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
But you've created every step of that by choosing not
just the card at first, but choosing the part of
the card, it all gets very complex. I haven't worked
out how to put this deck in a E deck
app yet because that book is so big. But one
of the interesting things there is that of this is
(26:00):
right or wrong, and so far as if a person
is trying to copy somebody else's idea, then the expectation
is that everybody else will follow that idea to its
natural conclusion, which is that this is a copy of that.
I often think it's a shame that people that the
art creators are doing that, because I feel like as readers,
(26:23):
you do so much better when they just drop that
there was a voyager tero, which is quite quite amazing
to read image only and it's very complex and very
confusing at times, and without the book it's brilliant. As
soon as you try to align it with any terro meanings,
it's just rubbish. It has no connection to it at all.
So it's like it's thrown on as an afterthought. Because
(26:44):
all of the printers, and I can promise you this,
all of the distributors will tell you that they want
illustrative art and they want traditional what they call traditional
and modern traditionals. It's created by the publishing companies. And
I've gone way offscript, sorry about that, but I think
it will help you to understand better the world in
which you live when it comes to tarot that it's
a big business thing and keeping creators down has been
(27:09):
a really strong drive for a really long time now,
since the nineties. They wanted to control exactly what was
being sold into the market, and they did.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And so now.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I'll suggesting, like, if you don't understand the symbology on
the card, and if you can't read the whole context
of that card, then you need better cards.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
If we've got email today and you've got a card
with a leader on it, and you can text, you
can message, you can email, you can call, you can
do all of this stuff that wasn't available one hundred
years ago when these cards, or let's face it were
right aways was what nineteen fourteen the normand eighteen seventy,
when she died three months later, they rebranded the Game
(27:52):
of Hope to the normal deck. That's not even it
was never ever designed as a Taro deck ever, just
so we understand that. But it has the component of
life in it. And that's what all the terror decks
really need to have components of life that are recognizable.
There's so many possibilities out there that when you think
(28:12):
about it and you think, okay, so if I'm going
to look at an image and I'm living in a
modern world, even if that like I like the Victorian,
I only did that a couple of years ago. The
Victorian tro I still in its messaging components of added
in the modern alliance for that, for the reason that
we can't ignore that it's here, right, But I can
tell you that a telephone or a mobile phone doesn't
(28:34):
look very pretty on a card. So I'm still going
to put a letter there, or I'm still going to
put indicators of communication and go from there, because let's
face it, technology isn't pretty. It's like, yeah, no thinks.
So when you are looking for a deck of cards,
if especially if it's a first deck, but if you've
got an earlier type deck and older style deck and
(28:55):
you're really struggling with it, I can promise you it's
because you don't understand the image. And if you like
myths and mythology, you can go for the terror of Asterisms,
which is very blunt imagery and it's a response to
animals more than anything else. But it's not a great
deck for interpretation. If you like, you can do it.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I do it. I've read them and I find them
okay to read.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But they are very much a card where the book
is inspiring or where you understand archetypes, because animals and
archetypes go together very well. But basically, while they're very
readable cards, the images aren't all that complex. And then
when I go to Victorian and Tero, they're quite complex,
but I'm following a.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Precept for Tero.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And then I've got the Dark Rose Divination, which is
my favorite deck. It's also Dreda Marshall at Tudamarshall dot
com and Canada. It's also her favorite deck because it's
very modern and it's very romantic, but it's not about romance.
It's the best I can put it's a bit sexy,
shall we put it there? That's also what I like
(30:03):
about the Terror of Asterisms. There's hot guys and hot girls,
and the girls are strong and the mean are strong.
More could you want in a deck of cards? It's like,
what more could you want? So think very carefully about that.
And if I was to recommend anything to you today,
if you're struggling with your cards and you're struggling with meanings,
is to put your guidebook away, grab your cards and
go through them. And people all the time ask, oh,
(30:26):
how did you learn? How did you learn? How did
you learn? When I tell them this, they're like, oh,
I don't know. It's like, you're not going to become
a reader in five minutes. It's never going to happen
no matter what you do, no matter how much you read,
because you can spend three or five years doing that
and still not be able to read cards because you
don't understand the images. So I every time I buy
(30:46):
a dick, and this I've done right from the start.
I hold the dick and I set my intention. The
intention is I just want the truth. It's always been
that truth, truth, truth, all the way. I don't want
anything else, not interested in anything else, whether I'm reading
for myself or whether I'm reading for clients. Once I've
sat there with that for a few moments, I unrap
(31:08):
the cellophane or whatever's wrapping them up, and then I
go through every single card. I can't you can't do
it in a day. You will not remember them, you
will not tweak them. But when you do your first draw,
every card should have some level of familiarity with you already.
The first deck I used more than any other deck
was the Mythic Taro, because I love myths. Now, I'd
(31:30):
been given an Egyptian deck and it was terrible. It
was like one Egyptian sarcophagus, two Egyptian sarcophagus.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
If you didn't read the book, there's nothing.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
There was nothing, and I don't want to read from
the directives, they are just position points. Then I got
the Mythic Taro was the right away was the next deck,
and I went in. I studied the right of Weight
under Sylvia Shaunty Valis, who was also a master of
Malchisa deck, so very well trained woman. She also was
(32:00):
a Kabbala devote. Then I went on and I bought
myself the Mythic Tero because I love Greek mythology. I've
always been fancying mythology, which is also what attracted me
to create the Terror of Asterisms, which the first forty
four will come out of ancient Greece, really and certainly
ancient stories which are fantastic. We love the zoos thing,
(32:22):
don't We love hercules is and he gorgeous in that deck.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
He's the card.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Anytime I tend it over, the girls will go, oh,
he's hot, which I really quite like. And so without
being you know, without being objectifying, there's some hot girls
in there, but they're also strong.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
They're as strong as the men in there.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
So when we are looking at our cards and what
we're going to read, well, your first thing is your image,
and sometimes you just need to start with if you're
over the age of sixteen seventeen. If you're under that age,
you're going to get cats and movie themes probably, And
if you find that derogatory, see you later say in Arrah,
there's nothing good about those.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
There's the.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Understanding that there are some really great dicks out there,
some that were created in the nineties, but a lot
of them have gone out of print now and so
there are namesakes that have come into print that aren't
those at the Medicine Wheel. I never really connected with
it very well, but I could read it. I just
I don't have American Indian history. Why would that be
(33:23):
something that I would resonate with. I have new Zealand
history right, and so on and so on. So think
about what you like, think about what you resonate with.
For my learning curve, which was through the first stages
and into what I call probably more advanced techniques, professional
full time professional was the mythic tarot, and then that
only changed when I started creating my own decks. When
(33:45):
I wanted to do energy work or self work, I
didn't use the tarot at all. There's too much interpretation required,
and we self edit. So I used a set of
cards called the Crystal Ally Dick by Naisha A.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Sham.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
She's a Californian woman who was running a earth clinic there.
I don't know if she still is, but she did
these cards that were for self development only, and they
are amazing for that.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You draw the.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Card, you meditate on the card, so all the good things.
But because of that deck, I started thinking, oh, you know,
if I draw something that I think is a bit
of a problem for me, I can meditate on it.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So I've done that ever since.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
If I draw a card for me, which is quite
rare these days, and it's a problem, then I meditate
on it and allow that card information to come on
through so what is it you like? You know, where
can you find what you like formed into a complex
image structure that really tweaks your intuition. If you pop
(34:48):
along to Dorothyholder dot com to my tarot page and
you get a quick look at you get a look
at some of the cards. It's not to buy those cards,
by the way, it's to look at them and you
just look.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
You need to do.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
You don't need to think I'm going to buy this deck.
I just need to look at a deck and look
at all the images and what do I feel about that?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know? If you look, just take this into your mind.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
If you look at a giraffe, right, a very tall giraffe,
one of the asterisms is called camelo partialus, which is
a giraffe, It's called camelo partial us. What does that
mean to you when you look at that image there?
You know, what does it make you think? What do
you think when you look at a lion sitting solidly
looking straight back at you with bright green eyes? What
(35:32):
does that make you feel? And so those are the
ways you can read your cards the best, regardless of
the cards. If you are into if you are into symbology,
then you need to find cards that have the strength
of symbology, but that you also understand it. It was
quite I had quite good fun with the Sacred Soul's
(35:53):
Oracle because I used gods from the Aboriginals in Australia,
I used gods from Africa I used there, and lots
of the cards. We've got these these subtle energies at play,
and I just think it's good fun. There's a Japanese
god who likes to take people on a mischievous little
tour and get them lost. So we've got these different
(36:13):
cultural aspects which I also prefer to have. My Queen
of my Queen of Diamonds in the Victorian Tero is
a black woman who looks very comfortable, thank you very much.
And my surrender card is Japanese Samurai. So there's lots
of this stuff that I enjoy. And other people prefer
(36:35):
Caucasian cards, other people prefer cards of color. And think
about what works for you and what you're happy with
and what you're comfortable with and what helps to keep
your mind broad. I've got a few words to say
about same gender cards. There's two genders on the planet.
You can do or say what you like but to
be that exclusive suggests that you're only going to read
(36:56):
about relationships for you good as gold.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Leave it there.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Then, the idea of having sort of Caucasian cards or
woman cards or man cards there's no other gender in them,
I find that highly unpleasant.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I don't want to say I hate it.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I just think it's unpleasant to be so narrow in
one's view of the world that we live in. And
that could be because I live in little old New Zealand,
and Auckland is full of every blasted country in the
world living there, enjoying themselves and feeding me their food,
which I love very much. So we have no issues
with that. That's the world we live in, right And
if you're going to be global on any level at all,
(37:35):
that means being on the internet, by the way, it
doesn't mean traveling. Then you're going to be interacting with
a pile of different types of people, with a pile
of different cultural understandings and a pile of different personalities.
And so your tar at cards that reflect you in
that the best, not you as a person, but what
your world looks like, or how you'd like to see
your world, or what you're attracted to with me with
(37:57):
the mythic Taro, which was all of those ancient Greek mythologies,
which that just bread and butter to me. I eat
that stuff up.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I just love it.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
When I was doing the research for terror asterisms, ah,
I was so excited. I was reading this stuff and
I'd have to go and research this myth and then
there'd be variations of that myth, and then I needed
to decide what to apply to my card, and I
just thought that was the best, best time ever.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
So think about that side of things. What blows your
scared up?
Speaker 1 (38:27):
What do you really enjoy looking at? If you've got
witchy tendencies and you really like the occult style of things,
go and find that there's plenty around so you don't
need to think if I don't do and learn the
right away, which is quote unquote traditional, Nope, it's just
one deck. He created one deck. There's no tradition in it.
(38:48):
If I, by the way, lo normand was selling better
by then either as well, And of course we have
the soft deck was in the mix. So when we
are thinking about what we enjoy and what we love
looking at, you will have a much more emotive and
intuitive response to those cards. I'm dragging on now because
I just can't help myself. I'm Dorothy. This is very
(39:08):
crazy for beginners, you shout
Hey everyone, Well, welcome to Taro Crazy, a beginner series.
I'm Dorothy, and tonight we're looking at the Five of
Pentacoles and we're going to look at symbolism on other cards.
So it's really important to note that cards copying other decks,
like the right of Deck is probably the most copied
(00:21):
deck around, and it's copied in perfectly. In a lot
of cases, they're not static meanings for the cards, and
I think it's time to really get past that whole idea.
There are foundational support for a concept, you know, and
what is a concept? The concept is the big picture.
(00:43):
This is to give this impression within a card. But
if you buy a deck and they've got a different representation,
then that representation of their image is the Vallid one,
not the other one.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So the problem when.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
You learn meanings for cards is you trying to pie
one set of meanings which may have nothing to do
with the cards. I recently just spoke to a girl
who was a bit upset because she'd bought a deck
of card Tariff Witches and in it she'd said to
her her force drawer. She said, oh look I'll give
you a reading. What would you like her mom said
(01:18):
she didn't have a question. She said, I just want
to just a general life advice type of a thing
would be great. She's only doing this to give your
daughter an airring, because her daughter said to me anyway,
she said later she said her mum didn't believe in
the cards. And I'm very much that that's irrelevant here.
But what she'd done is she'd drawn the cards. She'd
(01:39):
gone to the book's meanings without looking at the cards,
without looking at the images. Right away, we're opening these books,
these guide books, and she's gone in there and it's
given her, for the aid of cups that this could
mean an illness or a serious illness. And she's developed
a fear as she's doing the reading, and she's gone,
and you've got to do this, mum. To do that,
(02:01):
you got a terrible illness in your future and it
might even kill you. She's gone from no to ninety
miles because of a dumb guidebook. And I'm saying, really
dumb guidebook. The more information that they give you as
specifics and alternatives are, the less relevant they are. They
are a directive. If you have a directive, it's going
to be a phrase, it's going to be keywords.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Anything more than that is a suggestion. It's an idea,
and it doesn't mean it's awful, but it can be
when it tries to pull up all of these things
that when you're learning, you think I want an answer
that's crystal clear, You're not going to get it. Terror
is an interpretive medium, full stop. So are oracle cards.
(02:43):
I can remember when Dorian virtues nobody buy her cards,
she's scum, when her cards hit the mark in the
nineties and everybody was buying them. They were designed to
be read as a message. That's why they were called
oracle cards. So oracle cards, technically there shouldn't be any
such thing.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
But an oracle was.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
A person who had God's the God's not a god,
the God's voice and air. That is, when they went
into a meditative state, usually they would communicate or commune
with the God to answer or give advice, not so
much answer a single query, but to give advice to
(03:23):
the lord's ladies king.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So whoever could afford it. It wasn't for the.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Common man, even in ancient Greece. So whoever could afford
to drop the notes and the coins in the temple
would get this reading. Now there were all sorts of
things done to validate them. They would blind a priestess,
they would have her lie in water, wrapped in cloth
so that she could go into a meditative state. It's
(03:46):
clearly that the idea of this, the origin of this
is doing something right. But the oracle themselves, the whole
point is to get a message from God. End of story,
and so the gods should say the gods. So when
you put it in that bracket, the oracle cards, why
they were called oracle cards, was that they would give
(04:07):
you a message.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Taro has never done that.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
It's not intended to do that, no matter who creates it.
It's intended to have complex imagery that allows you to
buy into or recognize a general aspect of life. There's
seventy eight of them, there's not one hundred and fifty eight.
But if you add your reversals, you increase the potentials
(04:31):
for how they are interpreted. Not positive negative, but it's
really important. So when we come back to the five
of Pentacols, we got these two cards and ones that
right away. It's not a traditional deck. There was only
even one right away. There are untold other decks out there.
This is just the americanized one when you very well marketed.
(04:52):
When you go to the when you go to another deck,
have a look at the image. If you trying to
align the five of pentacles reasoning, that's Arthur Waite's reasoning
or concept to it. You need to know that it
used to be simply the five of diamonds before he
(05:12):
got his hands on it, and that's what people were
using to interpret. He talked to people, he listened to them,
how are you interpreting these cards? And that was how
it was done. It's the same with auras. For years
there were people that were in the profession of creating
aura cameras that went to aura readers and said, how
are you interpreting these colors? What do they mean to you?
(05:34):
How is it that you're seeing them? And what is
it going to be if I put that in my camera?
Now just says you know, an or a photo is
a real thing, but it's biorhythmic. That means I'm measuring
a part of your body, because that's.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
What an aura is. But the interpretation isn't just a word.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
It becomes far more complex because you're reading a human being,
You're reading an animal, you're reading a person, you're reading
somebody's actual state. If you like, we'll come back again
to the Five of Pentacoles. This woman had an issue
because in the Terror of which is we had the
(06:09):
five of Pentacols, had one pentacol as a window at
the back, and you had a woman who was appearing
to console a damaged man. She's romanticized it and changed
the meaning of it. And you want to hear this
perfect to me? People trying to copy the original ones, yeah, na,
what's the point? Just get the originals.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
They're cheaper.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
It's cheaper to go out and buy the originals. I
saw a set the other day on Reddit where somebody
had grabbed the original images and they put an archway
and a big brown sort of border with the archway
in the middle so you could see only part of
the picture. What's the point If you want to do
it that way, get a book and do bibliomancy and
you'll be away simple. But because if the pictures are irrelevant,
(06:53):
you're not doing taro done and dust it. You are
simply not doing taro. So let's get back five of pentacoles.
If you get a set and you have spent a
whole lot of time learning card meanings for an image.
You're going to struggle when you get a new image,
And so I'm saying, don't do that. Learn by the
pictures first. You can pick up a guidebook. Later you
can have a look at it. If you really get
(07:15):
flummixed with the image, you can look at a keyword
or two, or a phrase. But beyond that, you are reciting.
You're learning language, just as you learn it when you're
five years old.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So that means that.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You look at a picture, you get a word, and
then you get how you use this word. And that's
how you learn what a hammer looks like, and it
tells you what it does, and it tells you what
it is. And that's what you're doing when you use
a guidebook to learn the meaning of cards in terror.
And then we go back to our poor mum who's
been told she's going to have a terrible illness because
(07:47):
a person read a guidebook drawing the aid of cups.
And she went on to say to me, I blame
the guidebook. I can't blame the guidebook. You're the one
who decided to share that serious information with your mum,
And she said, and I wasn't sure about it, and
it's none of it adds are So maybe keep away
from the serious stuff until you can read your cards.
(08:09):
But also, if all you're going to do is read
a guidebook and you're going to recite that, you will
always struggle reading cards. And then if you want a
different deck later, you will really struggle because your brain
will not compute the two. That's how a language works,
visual language words, right, those two go together. The more
open you are with that, the faster you'll learn to
(08:30):
read your cards one. Two, the more efficiently you'll read
your cards. Three, the more flexible you'll be if reading
other decks. I really do pride myself and say I
can read any deck pretty much unless it's just one cat,
two cats three cap for in which case I'm not
reading the picture. I'm going to read the person. Because
the images mean nothing. There needs to be complexity in
(08:53):
the images. And there are beautiful decks out there. I've
got three, and then there are other people with wonderful decks.
Now I've only got one that uses the standard pit cards,
and then I took them back to their originals. I'm
using heart, spades and diamonds and so the picture is everything.
And part of the reason I did that is I've
taught so many people to read taro that I know
(09:15):
they get stuck on this. If they see the word
there that says six or sorry, five of pentcolls their
brain if they've been reading meanings and they've been looking
at another deck, will go to that meaning regardless. So
be more open and you'll have much more fun. But
also you'll read cards a lot better. So lock the
(09:35):
book away, truly lock it away. If you're in the
early stages, if you consider yourself to be a novice
or a newbie, or if you're stuck because of card meanings,
then put it away and then just really focus on
the pictures.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
You can do it.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I've had students that have been reading cards for ten
years get really surprised when I've said, well, what is
your card telling you? After they've tried to tell what
they think it means. What's the card look like? Do
you notice as part of that card? Because I noticed
this part of that card. And they will say, after
ten years of using those cards, they've never even seen
that symbol or that part in the card and never
(10:11):
seen it. So that tells you we're not looking when
our brain is given a task of remembering, and you
can't be intuitive if you're remembering or reciting. So intuitive
response is where you go inside yourself and you take
all of your life experiences and apply it to something
you're seeing.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
We will all do that a.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Little bit differently. We should do it differently. We all
have different experiences. Then, when you are applying that to
another card and you've got two sets of things, do
they look good together, do they work well together? Or
are they in opposition? And you can only do that
from the image when you look at the image and
you get that. So the five of Pentacles, who are
(10:55):
five of pinacles? I would not read it the same
way as I would read or write away five of
pentrocols and my own deck of Victorian Taro, the five
of five of diamonds, I would not read that the
same way either. I've taken the concept, and this is
what a creator will do. You take the concept of
(11:16):
a card after years of studying them too, by the way,
not just reading them, but studying Arthur and Elive is Levi,
and they tell you and a few others there weren't
many for all the commonality that goes on. I went
all the way back to ancient China and had to
look at their origin cards, which is precursor to all
of ours.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
And when you look at them, you think.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
You know, we've got this concept, we've got this idea,
and we need to have one or else the cards
become pointless. And so for me that became that sense
of being cast out, being isolated, being alone, not having support.
And I see that in my Victorian Taro that very clearly.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But there is a direction to go.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
In the arthurweight Stick, I see that this is like
a loss, a significant loss. So it could be that
in the Victorian Terror. But when you've got nothing that
there's a picture of a man walking down a Victorian street,
Victorian man, and he's walking away. He's got the dark
on his on one side of the street, there's nobody
(12:19):
else in it, and he's holding a suitcase, which tells
you all he's got is all he's got.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
So what you infer.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
From that picture is individual, and how you interpret it
is individual, But that picture still has its own legacy.
So this woman's five pinacles with caring for the injured
man takes it into a different realm. I would read
it differently. It does not make it wrong as a card.
The same with this woman who had her aid of
(12:46):
cups in her terror of Witch's deck giving her this
illness meaning, and she was really disappointed about that, and
so on and so on and so on. She was like, well,
I'll throw the deck away if you like the pictures,
just throw the book away. Put the book away. It's
the one that's not serving you. It's the one that's
not helping you, and it's the one that causing you
(13:09):
the problems. It isn't really the cards themselves. So the
five of Pinter calls when I'm looking at the right away,
just as we're clear on that brings to mind to
me being cast out, maybe not being able to see opportunity.
There's a bright window right there. There's warmth and protection
on the other side of that window, but there's a
big brick wall. Neither are looking at the window, neither
(13:30):
are communicating, neither are together, and so there's an isolated
feeling around that may not be able to see opportunities
because of one's mind locking them into a reality or
ideology of poverty, of lack of miserliness. They are all
(13:51):
part of that card. When I am looking at the
Other Ladies card. I'm trying to think who it was.
Now I can't remember the name of the.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Author.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
But when I'm looking at her card, which I don't have,
somebody posted a picture of it. They posted both of them,
saying I can't read this one because it's not like
that one. And all they're telling me is they've learnt
meanings of cards and they're not looking.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
At the picture.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
So she's looking at this picture and going, it's too
far different from that for me to read it. And
I'm looking at that picture and going, I would read
it differently. So we still have an injury. The means
head in hand is wrapped and injured. We don't have
that sense of coldness of being outside in the snow,
that kind of bleak feeling that comes with the Five
of Pentacles in Arthur's deck. I have a bleak feeling
(14:36):
in mine, and very isolated. But it's not snowing exactly.
It does look like it would be quite cold in
the shadow. He does definitely look alone. There's no doors
open to him, and he's walking straight ahead and it
doesn't matter what's around him. So when we come back
to this Other Ladies she's got a big round window
behind the peer. With the pentacles, its inferences more relationship oriented.
(15:01):
And I don't like cards that do that because they
just take away the reality of the rest of the
rest of the life that we live, which is relationships
one percent. The rest of your day is work, money, family, whatever.
Oh there is relationships and family, but I'm talking romance,
I guess. So there's this indication in the pentacles there
of a relationship. But it can be a loss of money.
(15:22):
It can be finding oneself bankrupt. It can be my
anxiety and fears, or my fear of loss has driven
me to get rid of everything that I have. Maybe
it pushes people away, depends on how you're reading it.
With her card, we would have that consolation. It looks
like a consolation. There's like, yes, you're hurt, but don't worry.
(15:43):
There's a pat on the face for him. There's a
person there ready to minister to him, but don't worry.
And of course I dislike that gender optic where she's
the one nurturing him. But anyway, don't worry, It'll be okay.
And I think that takes away from the reality of
the card too. It may not be okay, And if
we're going to reater, we need to acknowledge these aspects
(16:04):
where there isn't a happy ending to everything, or to
create a better ending or a better beginning, we might
need to put in some effort work and to do
that constructively, we need to acknowledge what those challenges might be.
So we still have she's got a big light pentacle
(16:24):
behind the couple, but at the same time and neither
of them are looking at it, but it doesn't offer
that sanctuary which the right away car does. He makes
it look like a church. It's not a religious statement.
It's very much a statement of we think of a
church as sanctuary. Even though I personally would never go
to a church for sanctuary. If somebody just put a
(16:46):
house there, I wouldn't necessarily have that same thought.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So it's symbolic for a reason.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So if we think about that and look at that,
and we think, now, what are the fives telling us anyway? Well,
the fives tend to be that moment of disillusionment right gone,
and we've been all fired up, we've started something, we
got all excited by that. Then we've had a moment
where we've had to think, am I doing the right thing.
I could quit now, but we've driven on and then
we get to the five, and the five is where
(17:12):
the challenges show up in life. That's where we've gone
so far down the track that we feel like we've
invested too much to just walk away, or we haven't
invested enough to make it keep going, and so we
feel we're alone. You know, the most alone moments a
person has has nothing to do with romance at all.
(17:33):
It's always going to be that moment where you're remembering pain,
where you're remembering trauma, you're remembering loss, and there's no
way to really share that with anybody because everybody feels
it differently. But if you were in a good state
in your life and you walked up to your partner
or a friend and they're like, oh, why so glum,
(17:53):
and you go, oh, nothing, you know that there's probably
a reason that you may have been thinking about when
your dad died, or you may have been thinking about
when you crash the car. You may have been thinking
about your money worries from ten years ago, even though
you don't have them now, because they're all part of
your body, the part of your being, a part of
your spirit. The part of your experience, and so then
it becomes that second line. We just say, look, I
(18:15):
don't know, I'm okay, I'm fine, and most of it
we are. We are fine, but we don't have to
verbalize that kind of a feeling, which just reminds us that,
you know, life isn't perfect. When we ignore that, and
we ignore the chances to or the opportunity to work
with something that is very clean and clear, then we
(18:38):
deny ourselves the opportunity of foresight. And that's where the
divination part comes in. For Warned is fore armed, with
something that was said to me all the time when
I was learning. For Warned is forearmed, and I've never
forgotten that. And I like to say, you know what,
fore warned gives you foresight That means you can manage
your life better. It doesn't mean everything will go your way,
but it means you'll be happier with how you've managed
(19:00):
what you do have to manage. This can come down
to any part of your life, at any stage of
your life. And when we're looking at that Five of
Pentacles and we're thinking about that sort of isolationist feeling
and that feeling of nobody gets me.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Nobody understands me. I feel sorry for myself.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
It's very much a bit of a pity party because
we're ignoring the offering of sanctuary. And that's the part
of that Weight card that's always drawn me the most.
So I read it that way, adapting it to whatever
the query is or the person I'm reading for the
situation or the circumstance or other cards obviously, but I
(19:38):
can remember my first real interpretato of that card was
those who fear loss usually engage loss, and I thought
that was probably quite interesting after I said it at
the time, it just fell out my mouth. But one
of the interesting aspects of looking at different cards is
to look at the pictures, to not look at you know,
(19:59):
if I see a copy cat right a weight, I'm
really dismissive and I'm never going to not be. You
can buy them for eleven to fifteen dollars from anywhere
in the world. There's no copyright on them. They're cheapest chips.
They all look the same if you don't buy somebody's
idea of what they should look like, and then you'll
see all these names. So there's the universal Weight, which
was put out by US Games originally and then there's
(20:20):
just the right of weight RWs, and you'll find most
of those there are exact copies of the originals because
they can and they can make loads of money they
don't have to pay royalties. And then a whole pile
of people try to jump on side and make money
off this, but weren't artistically inclined. So for the rest
of it, it becomes just a matter of if you've
got imagery that you like before you buy it, if
(20:43):
you can go to an app like deckaball, and there
are other apps, but that's one I'm using, and that's
the one I've got my cards on. You can go
along and you can have a look by borrowing a
deck of cards, or you can have a look at
the deck of cards as they're showing them to you,
or you can go to the creator's website. Know that
there's a human being behind the creation, which is really
important now right and see that there's a human being
(21:04):
behind the creation. I had noticed on Amazon a lot
of the cards. I know people talk China, China, China.
If you're in America, just stop. Amazon's been doing this
for years. They've been doing it with audio books. I've
been using fake voices and so on for years and
years and years. But they've also been using grammarly fake
writers as well, which means that they've been generating books
(21:28):
just by putting in a few words. So we've got
a common knowledge of it now, but by the time
the public get hold of anything, I can promise you
big companies have been using it for a long time.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
And they've been doing it with cards. US Games have
been doing it with cards. Everybody's been doing it with cards.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So when it comes to the bottom line, if you
are really passionate about reading cards and you'd really like
to do that, well, start and stop.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
With the image. That's it. Start and stop with the image.
It's not a school.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
You're not learning to do paperwork in English and all
of that stuff. You're learning to and understand your cards.
When you do understand an image and somebody gives you
another card with the same words on it, like five
of pentacols, you can look at that and go, oh,
that's completely different, and appreciate it and read it for
(22:15):
what it is, because those letters mean nothing. The five
of pentacols was invented in the late eighteen hundreds. For
hundreds of years before there and since then it was
the five of diamonds. When we start thinking about things
in a more broad sense and we're playing around at
the tarot, then it's easier to read the tarot because
(22:36):
just look at it. We say interpret. Well, that's not
reciting meanings. We say read while we're reading an image,
and we do that as humans.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
We do it.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
We take a lot of information by looking at things.
We're really good at it. It's a natural ability that
we have nuance and states and context, all of that
conceptual stuff. In fact, you find that it's much easier
to write a concept with an image then with words.
You'd have to write a book with something you could
(23:05):
do very quickly with an image. And it's meant to
be evocative. It's meant to evoke in emotions. So when
you look at a card like the five of Pinnacles,
one whose author I don't name, when you look at
that card, there's a certain amount of feeling, like a
compassion in there. And when you look at Arthur Waites,
he's none at all. Who's to say either one of
those is correct unless you're choosing to follow a meaning
(23:28):
that actually was made up. It was made up by
a guy they're all made up by somebody, and there
is no authority on that. His authority comes in his book,
not as cards. As cards are okay, but they're not
always relevant to a modern world either. Neither Isle Normand
and Normand was a game of hope. It was just
a game like snakes and letters, and so it was
(23:50):
made up. They're all made up. So think very clearly
about where the importance of the cards come from. And
they come from a combination of entu of response for
a lot that would include clear voyance and reading energy
and understanding the concept of the image. So whoever the
artist was, whatever the image they tried to create. When
(24:13):
I created the Sacred Soul's Oracle Deck, it was never
really designed to be how do I put this? It
was I designed it with the idea of reading for yourself.
They were compolition compilation cards full of symbology, and the
genuine symbols. Now a lot of them you'd get and
(24:33):
you'd have your own glossary of terms. There's cherry blossoms
in one, for example, you could think spring, or you
could think it's a time of renewal, right, and then
in others there's kia, which you don't even know what
it is unless you're in New Zealand. It's a bird,
but it's a naughty bird and he's running away with
two wedding rings. So you might need the book. But
the book has three hundred and fifty symbols more than
(24:56):
three hundred and fifty symbols described in it, not how
you read the card, so on that one I've based
it on. When you look at the image you are.
The intention was that you would find the one thing
in that image that really drew your attention. Most people
can't hold that discipline, by the way, over the years
that I was using them, and I would say, here
we go, here's the card, which is the one thing
(25:17):
in that image that draws you. That quite often go
this and this and this and this, and they've described
the whole card. So I just take the first thing,
because always the first thing is what were most attracted to.
And so then I would from there I would do
the reading for them. But if you're doing that for yourself,
you're to open the book, you go to that card page,
you go to that symbol, and you have an oracle
(25:38):
type reading.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Now you have a message.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
But you've created every step of that by choosing not
just the card at first, but choosing the part of
the card, it all gets very complex. I haven't worked
out how to put this deck in a E deck
app yet because that book is so big. But one
of the interesting things there is that of this is
(26:00):
right or wrong, and so far as if a person
is trying to copy somebody else's idea, then the expectation
is that everybody else will follow that idea to its
natural conclusion, which is that this is a copy of that.
I often think it's a shame that people that the
art creators are doing that, because I feel like as readers,
(26:23):
you do so much better when they just drop that
there was a voyager tero, which is quite quite amazing
to read image only and it's very complex and very
confusing at times, and without the book it's brilliant. As
soon as you try to align it with any terro meanings,
it's just rubbish. It has no connection to it at all.
So it's like it's thrown on as an afterthought. Because
(26:44):
all of the printers, and I can promise you this,
all of the distributors will tell you that they want
illustrative art and they want traditional what they call traditional
and modern traditionals. It's created by the publishing companies. And
I've gone way offscript, sorry about that, but I think
it will help you to understand better the world in
which you live when it comes to tarot that it's
a big business thing and keeping creators down has been
(27:09):
a really strong drive for a really long time now,
since the nineties. They wanted to control exactly what was
being sold into the market, and they did.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And so now.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
I'll suggesting, like, if you don't understand the symbology on
the card, and if you can't read the whole context
of that card, then you need better cards.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
If we've got email today and you've got a card
with a leader on it, and you can text, you
can message, you can email, you can call, you can
do all of this stuff that wasn't available one hundred
years ago when these cards, or let's face it were
right aways was what nineteen fourteen the normand eighteen seventy,
when she died three months later, they rebranded the Game
(27:52):
of Hope to the normal deck. That's not even it
was never ever designed as a Taro deck ever, just
so we understand that. But it has the component of
life in it. And that's what all the terror decks
really need to have components of life that are recognizable.
There's so many possibilities out there that when you think
(28:12):
about it and you think, okay, so if I'm going
to look at an image and I'm living in a
modern world, even if that like I like the Victorian,
I only did that a couple of years ago. The
Victorian tro I still in its messaging components of added
in the modern alliance for that, for the reason that
we can't ignore that it's here, right, But I can
tell you that a telephone or a mobile phone doesn't
(28:34):
look very pretty on a card. So I'm still going
to put a letter there, or I'm still going to
put indicators of communication and go from there, because let's
face it, technology isn't pretty. It's like, yeah, no thinks.
So when you are looking for a deck of cards,
if especially if it's a first deck, but if you've
got an earlier type deck and older style deck and
(28:55):
you're really struggling with it, I can promise you it's
because you don't understand the image. And if you like
myths and mythology, you can go for the terror of Asterisms,
which is very blunt imagery and it's a response to
animals more than anything else. But it's not a great
deck for interpretation. If you like, you can do it.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
I do it. I've read them and I find them
okay to read.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But they are very much a card where the book
is inspiring or where you understand archetypes, because animals and
archetypes go together very well. But basically, while they're very
readable cards, the images aren't all that complex. And then
when I go to Victorian and Tero, they're quite complex,
but I'm following a.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Precept for Tero.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And then I've got the Dark Rose Divination, which is
my favorite deck. It's also Dreda Marshall at Tudamarshall dot
com and Canada. It's also her favorite deck because it's
very modern and it's very romantic, but it's not about romance.
It's the best I can put it's a bit sexy,
shall we put it there? That's also what I like
(30:03):
about the Terror of Asterisms. There's hot guys and hot girls,
and the girls are strong and the mean are strong.
More could you want in a deck of cards? It's like,
what more could you want? So think very carefully about that.
And if I was to recommend anything to you today,
if you're struggling with your cards and you're struggling with meanings,
is to put your guidebook away, grab your cards and
go through them. And people all the time ask, oh,
(30:26):
how did you learn? How did you learn? How did
you learn? When I tell them this, they're like, oh,
I don't know. It's like, you're not going to become
a reader in five minutes. It's never going to happen
no matter what you do, no matter how much you read,
because you can spend three or five years doing that
and still not be able to read cards because you
don't understand the images. So I every time I buy
(30:46):
a dick, and this I've done right from the start.
I hold the dick and I set my intention. The
intention is I just want the truth. It's always been
that truth, truth, truth, all the way. I don't want
anything else, not interested in anything else, whether I'm reading
for myself or whether I'm reading for clients. Once I've
sat there with that for a few moments, I unrap
(31:08):
the cellophane or whatever's wrapping them up, and then I
go through every single card. I can't you can't do
it in a day. You will not remember them, you
will not tweak them. But when you do your first draw,
every card should have some level of familiarity with you already.
The first deck I used more than any other deck
was the Mythic Taro, because I love myths. Now, I'd
(31:30):
been given an Egyptian deck and it was terrible. It
was like one Egyptian sarcophagus, two Egyptian sarcophagus.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
If you didn't read the book, there's nothing.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
There was nothing, and I don't want to read from
the directives, they are just position points. Then I got
the Mythic Taro was the right away was the next deck,
and I went in. I studied the right of Weight
under Sylvia Shaunty Valis, who was also a master of
Malchisa deck, so very well trained woman. She also was
(32:00):
a Kabbala devote. Then I went on and I bought
myself the Mythic Tero because I love Greek mythology. I've
always been fancying mythology, which is also what attracted me
to create the Terror of Asterisms, which the first forty
four will come out of ancient Greece, really and certainly
ancient stories which are fantastic. We love the zoos thing,
(32:22):
don't We love hercules is and he gorgeous in that deck.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
He's the card.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Anytime I tend it over, the girls will go, oh,
he's hot, which I really quite like. And so without
being you know, without being objectifying, there's some hot girls
in there, but they're also strong.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
They're as strong as the men in there.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
So when we are looking at our cards and what
we're going to read, well, your first thing is your image,
and sometimes you just need to start with if you're
over the age of sixteen seventeen. If you're under that age,
you're going to get cats and movie themes probably, And
if you find that derogatory, see you later say in Arrah,
there's nothing good about those.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
There's the.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Understanding that there are some really great dicks out there,
some that were created in the nineties, but a lot
of them have gone out of print now and so
there are namesakes that have come into print that aren't
those at the Medicine Wheel. I never really connected with
it very well, but I could read it. I just
I don't have American Indian history. Why would that be
(33:23):
something that I would resonate with. I have new Zealand
history right, and so on and so on. So think
about what you like, think about what you resonate with.
For my learning curve, which was through the first stages
and into what I call probably more advanced techniques, professional
full time professional was the mythic tarot, and then that
only changed when I started creating my own decks. When
(33:45):
I wanted to do energy work or self work, I
didn't use the tarot at all. There's too much interpretation required,
and we self edit. So I used a set of
cards called the Crystal Ally Dick by Naisha A.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Sham.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
She's a Californian woman who was running a earth clinic there.
I don't know if she still is, but she did
these cards that were for self development only, and they
are amazing for that.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
You draw the.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Card, you meditate on the card, so all the good things.
But because of that deck, I started thinking, oh, you know,
if I draw something that I think is a bit
of a problem for me, I can meditate on it.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
So I've done that ever since.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
If I draw a card for me, which is quite
rare these days, and it's a problem, then I meditate
on it and allow that card information to come on
through so what is it you like? You know, where
can you find what you like formed into a complex
image structure that really tweaks your intuition. If you pop
(34:48):
along to Dorothyholder dot com to my tarot page and
you get a quick look at you get a look
at some of the cards. It's not to buy those cards,
by the way, it's to look at them and you
just look.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
You need to do.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
You don't need to think I'm going to buy this deck.
I just need to look at a deck and look
at all the images and what do I feel about that?
Speaker 2 (35:08):
You know? If you look, just take this into your mind.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
If you look at a giraffe, right, a very tall giraffe,
one of the asterisms is called camelo partialus, which is
a giraffe, It's called camelo partial us. What does that
mean to you when you look at that image there?
You know, what does it make you think? What do
you think when you look at a lion sitting solidly
looking straight back at you with bright green eyes? What
(35:32):
does that make you feel? And so those are the
ways you can read your cards the best, regardless of
the cards. If you are into if you are into symbology,
then you need to find cards that have the strength
of symbology, but that you also understand it. It was
quite I had quite good fun with the Sacred Soul's
(35:53):
Oracle because I used gods from the Aboriginals in Australia,
I used gods from Africa I used there, and lots
of the cards. We've got these these subtle energies at play,
and I just think it's good fun. There's a Japanese
god who likes to take people on a mischievous little
tour and get them lost. So we've got these different
(36:13):
cultural aspects which I also prefer to have. My Queen
of my Queen of Diamonds in the Victorian Tero is
a black woman who looks very comfortable, thank you very much.
And my surrender card is Japanese Samurai. So there's lots
of this stuff that I enjoy. And other people prefer
(36:35):
Caucasian cards, other people prefer cards of color. And think
about what works for you and what you're happy with
and what you're comfortable with and what helps to keep
your mind broad. I've got a few words to say
about same gender cards. There's two genders on the planet.
You can do or say what you like but to
be that exclusive suggests that you're only going to read
(36:56):
about relationships for you good as gold.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Leave it there.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Then, the idea of having sort of Caucasian cards or
woman cards or man cards there's no other gender in them,
I find that highly unpleasant.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I don't want to say I hate it.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I just think it's unpleasant to be so narrow in
one's view of the world that we live in. And
that could be because I live in little old New Zealand,
and Auckland is full of every blasted country in the
world living there, enjoying themselves and feeding me their food,
which I love very much. So we have no issues
with that. That's the world we live in, right And
if you're going to be global on any level at all,
(37:35):
that means being on the internet, by the way, it
doesn't mean traveling. Then you're going to be interacting with
a pile of different types of people, with a pile
of different cultural understandings and a pile of different personalities.
And so your tar at cards that reflect you in
that the best, not you as a person, but what
your world looks like, or how you'd like to see
your world, or what you're attracted to with me with
(37:57):
the mythic Taro, which was all of those ancient Greek mythologies,
which that just bread and butter to me. I eat
that stuff up.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
I just love it.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
When I was doing the research for terror asterisms, ah,
I was so excited. I was reading this stuff and
I'd have to go and research this myth and then
there'd be variations of that myth, and then I needed
to decide what to apply to my card, and I
just thought that was the best, best time ever.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
So think about that side of things. What blows your
scared up?
Speaker 1 (38:27):
What do you really enjoy looking at? If you've got
witchy tendencies and you really like the occult style of things,
go and find that there's plenty around so you don't
need to think if I don't do and learn the
right away, which is quote unquote traditional, Nope, it's just
one deck. He created one deck. There's no tradition in it.
(38:48):
If I, by the way, lo normand was selling better
by then either as well, And of course we have
the soft deck was in the mix. So when we
are thinking about what we enjoy and what we love
looking at, you will have a much more emotive and
intuitive response to those cards. I'm dragging on now because
I just can't help myself. I'm Dorothy. This is very
(39:08):
crazy for beginners, you shout
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