July 4, 2023 • 26 mins
Pretty much every teacher struggles to teach in a way that addresses the needs of all of their students. Despite their attempts at differentiation, the vast array of levels in their classroom makes it daunting at best.
What if the way we've been teaching is the problem? Is there ACTUALLY a way to teach that catches up the students that are behind AND challenges those that are above grade level?
In this episode, Kareem Farah, cofounder of the Modern Classrooms Project, and I discuss how this is not only possible, it's being done successfully by tens of THOUSANDS of teachers. This method will not only challenge how you think about teaching but also shed light on how you could also lighten your workload and stress. 😱
Too good to be true? Stay to the end and see! This is Part 1 of a 2-part series, so be sure to subscribe to get notified for Part 2!
Learn more at https://www.modernclassrooms.org/
Still figuring out lesson planning? Grab my free Lesson Planning Guide here 👉🏼https://teachersneedteachers.com/lessonplan
I have a new YouTube channel! Join me over there and subscribe!
Got questions, feedback, or want to be on the show? You can email me at kim@teachersneedteachers.com
Connect with me
What if the way we've been teaching is the problem? Is there ACTUALLY a way to teach that catches up the students that are behind AND challenges those that are above grade level?
In this episode, Kareem Farah, cofounder of the Modern Classrooms Project, and I discuss how this is not only possible, it's being done successfully by tens of THOUSANDS of teachers. This method will not only challenge how you think about teaching but also shed light on how you could also lighten your workload and stress. 😱
Too good to be true? Stay to the end and see! This is Part 1 of a 2-part series, so be sure to subscribe to get notified for Part 2!
Learn more at https://www.modernclassrooms.org/
Still figuring out lesson planning? Grab my free Lesson Planning Guide here 👉🏼https://teachersneedteachers.com/lessonplan
I have a new YouTube channel! Join me over there and subscribe!
Got questions, feedback, or want to be on the show? You can email me at kim@teachersneedteachers.com
Connect with me
- Subscribe to Apple Podcasts, Google Play Music, or Stitcher
- Join my Facebook Group
- Message me through Instagram
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want
to just survive teaching but actually thrive. One aspect of teaching that pretty much
every teacher struggles with is being ableto reach all learners, especially when you
have learners that are on grade level, learners that are ahead, and definitely
learners that are behind or frequently absent. Parents and administrators and districts and the
(00:23):
states. They all want us tosomehow create individualized learning plans for all of
our students and differentiate for all ofthe multiple levels that sit in front of
us every single day. But howare we supposed to do that? Which
is part one of a two partseries about differentiation and the Modern Classroom Project.
I'm interviewing Kareem Farah about how toset up a modern classroom where all
(00:46):
students needs are met. Yes,all students needs are met. Not only
has his method with the Modern ClassroomsProject been tested by tens of thousands of
teachers across the country and the world, it also has been studied to have
actual improvements in student learning and outcomes. It helps to build student teacher relationships
(01:07):
and definitely closes learning gaps. Ifyou've just been struggling with trying to reach
all of your learners and feel likea failure, then this episode is definitely
for you. The Modern Classrooms Projectis a model where teachers are no longer
standing in front of their students andjust being the gatekeepers and information. It's
not just us that delivers the informationin front of students in real time.
(01:30):
Rather, it's sort of a flippedmodel, where can we deliver the lessons
via video lessons. Sometimes we recordit, sometimes we use other people's recordings,
like on YouTube or something like that, and then students are going to
watch that video either in class oron their own time, and the great
part is that they can rewatch itif they didn't understand it. The model
also allows you to create supplemental videosfor students that are behind and also extension
(01:56):
videos for students that move pretty fastor already ahead of level and need to
be stretched and challenged. The mainpart of the Modern Classrooms Project is the
fact that this is a student centeredmodel meeting that is not based on teachers
and on what we need to teachand in terms of what we need as
teachers, but rather it's going tomeet the needs of every single student,
(02:17):
no matter where they're at, andI think that this is something that pretty
much every teacher hopes that they cando. Kareem Vera, who is a
former math teacher, co founded theModern Classrooms Project as a way of sharing
his model with teachers because he knewthat this was the future of education.
So, if you want to knowmore about how the Modern Classrooms Project actually
works, and I encourage you tocheck out our website, modern classrooms dot
(02:39):
org, which I'll link below sothat you can learn about the actual model.
But today Kareim and I are goingto be talking about how to reframe
our mindset as teachers, especially whenwe've been teaching in a traditional lecture based
classroom, so that we can embracethis model that really benefits our students.
Here we go, Well, thanksfor being on the show, Cream,
(03:00):
I really appreciate you taking the timeto do this or turn your busy schedule.
Happy to be here, excited.So, as I mentioned in the
introduction, you were a math teacherand you started the Modern Classroom Project,
which I'm really really excited to talkto my audience about. Can you briefly
(03:21):
explain the concept and principles behind it? And how it's different than just like
traditional lecture style teaching. Yeah,I mean you started the explanation for me
by saying that this is an alternativeto sort of a traditional lectured approach based
to instruction. I actually think whereit's most different, it's that it's a
way to transform from a fixed basedlearning environment to a self based learning environment
(03:44):
that's competency or mastery based. Sothe way that it essentially works is that
instead of educators standing at the frontof the room and delivering live lectures in
many ways the way that we allprobably learn when we were students, but
also the way that you're often taughtto teach, educators replace those live lectures
with bite sized instructional videos that theyactually create and or leverage other digital resources
(04:09):
when appropriate. Right, not everysingle lesson needs to start with a kind
of instruction done through a videos.So once you've gotten into those live lectures,
that is the bottleneck that forces fixedbased learning. So then you can
actually let students work at their ownpace, but in bursts one or two
weeks at a time, be usuallygiven a game board or pacing structure allows
them to know what they need toaccomplish over a set of days or weeks,
(04:31):
and then it's mastery based grading.So you got that kind of blended
component, which is the getting ridof live lectures. You got the self
pacing component allowing students grow based inChunson. Then finally that mastery based grading
component, which is really determining thata student should move on from one skill
to the next, not based onthe day of the week, but based
on their understanding of the skill.So this what I like is that there
(04:55):
are two deems that I struggle withevery year. One of them is that
as a secondary t I'm tired ofteaching the same lesson five times a day.
So the idea of just like prerecordingit and having the students watch it
it means that I don't have todo that. And then, of course,
you know what your model leaned itselfto is that I feel like I'm
(05:16):
leaving kids behind. But at thesame time, I also feel that kids
are bored, you know. Butthe thing that I'm struggling with wrapping my
brain around is the fact that Ipart of what I do when I'm lecturing
is I have a lot of interactionwith the kids. It's how they get
to know me, and I reallylike that aspect of it. So,
(05:36):
you know, one thing that I'msure a lot of people who want to
do something like this in terms ofespecially with differentiation, is they're used to
lecturing. What are some challenges thatthey might face and trying to transition and
how can they overcome those? Well, I mean, I think you talked
about one in your question. Imean the first thing to keep in mind
(05:59):
is just because you're not lecturing doesn'tmean you're not doing whole group activities and
discussions. It's a frequent kind ofmisconception about the model. Just because I
don't talk at students and they takenotes does not mean that I don't open
class with an activity, that wedon't have a discussion about how you maximize
your time and built twenty first centuryskills, or that I don't stop the
class at any point in time andsay let's talk about this. I've seen
(06:19):
six kids already struggle with this,let's do a quick discussion about that.
So there's a lot of opportunities tohave that kind of whole group experience.
But the key is using whole groupexperience for connection and conversation and not just
I talk at EU take notes,right. So I think that's the first
thing to keep in mind. Thesecond thing is, you know, our
(06:41):
whole idea and the data shows,is that when you run a modern classroom,
you have increased interaction with students.Those interactions are now going to be
in one on one in small groupsettings as opposed to whole group settings.
The idea is it's in those smallgroup settings and in the one on one
settings when you're engaging in data driveninstruction, which are also just getting no
students, that that's actually where you'rebuilding the strongest relationships. That's where you're
(07:02):
moving students across the continuent mastery.So I think that addresses one just kind
of related question, which is whenyou kind of think about, oh,
no, am I gonna lose thiskind of community based feeling when I'm at
the front of the room, AmI gonna lose some of that kind of
fun performing developments, It's like,no, it just looks a little different,
and you're going to use that timedifferently. I think the other things
(07:23):
that folks struggle with is first,releasing control. I think it's you know,
being at the front of the roomis both convenient and it's an easy
way to create a very rigid learningenvironment where you are in control of every
minute, and it's very difficult,and I was I can be the first
to say this, to release thatcontrol, to wake up and suddenly go
(07:45):
wait a minute. Students are haveenough agency to be the driver's cy of
the learning experience. They are goingto be the folks that decide, you
know, how much kind of urgencythey put into the next steps. And
my job is to help facilitate andsupport them to that journey. And that
really freaks educators out in there,actually, and I get it. But
it's also such an important skill forstudents to build, so it's critical.
(08:05):
The other piece is just the leeorientation of time. I mean, one
of the things we've seen now thatwe've trained thousands of teachers is some edvocators
totally knows to do when you unlashedin the classroom. They totally think,
immediately, I'm going to go intothis kind of teacher station. I'm gonna
be pulling students in small groups andindividually, we're gonna be talking about their
mastery checks, figure out where they'veunderstood the skill. We're gonna be building
(08:26):
relationships. Other teachers are like,what do I do with all this time?
Because you teach your prep programs,they don actually teach you how to
run a classroom that's students entered,a classroom that's kind of designed through the
leves of differentiation. They teach youhow to run a classroom from the front
of the room usually, and soyou know, figuring out how to use
that time effectively conceal uncomfortable And thenthere's obviously a plain in component. I
(08:48):
mean, you're planning differently and insome ways you have to add a little
bit more on the front end forthe gains in varying the classroom from a
much less stressful, enjoyable and datadriven classroom experience, and always poses a
challenge because it's a new skill toplan this way, and there's also a
little bit more upfront work well.And I think that for teachers that are
(09:09):
already seeking out your model, it'ssort of self selective. These are teachers
that are open minded about it,and you know they already see that there's
something that they need to change inthe way that they teach. But I
can also see that it can bedifficult for a lot of teachers, especially
veteran teachers I mean I've been teaching. This will be my twenty second year
to shift from a I am.I mean, no one wants to admit
(09:31):
that they are the center of theirclassroom. But a lot of time teachers
see themselves as like, you know, the center of the classroom around which
everything revolves. But now it's studentfocused. So have you had a lot
of teachers that had to grapple withthat and how did they get past?
I mean it's almost eco eccentric.I hate to say that, but you
(09:52):
know, we're just so used tobeing about us, like being the gatekeepers.
How do we release that need tobe the gatekeeper? Yeah? Well,
I mean the interesting fat So youknow, we put fifty three thousand
teachers to our free course and tenthousand through Verture Mendership program. The average
educator who opts into a virtual mendershipprogram, and it is an opt and
(10:13):
only program, meaning no one's beingforced to do our model. Everyone's choosing
too. The average educator who joinsour virtual Menadership program is fourteen years of
classroom experience. So this is actuallya model that generally is first most attractive
to veteran teachers, and the reasonwhy it's often first attractive to veteran teachers
is I think veteran teachers over timereally do want to shift the learning experience
(10:35):
to the students. Right. It'sboth exhausting to be in the driver's seat
as the teacher, but it's alsosomething you learn over time that that's not
what's best for students. That they'regoing to leave you the classroom and leave
the school building and suddenly like theyhave to engage in a lot of self
directed behaviors to navigate the real world. And if we don't create those conditions
early on, then they get blindsidedby those realities. So I think one
(11:00):
thing that is critical going into amodern classrooms experience is to have that first
to shift a large percentage of responsibilityfrom educator to student. If you aren't
built, if you haven't bought iton that vision, you shouldn't do our
model right, because it's core towhat we do. The second piece is
to really understand and internalize that whena student isn't using their time effectively,
(11:24):
the solution isn't then to take freedomaway from them, it's to teach them
how to use that freedom effectively.And that is really hard for folks.
I often say a phrase to thead and we support where we need to
spend less time focusing on disengagement andmore time focusing on re engagement. A
lot of educators will become obsessed withthis idea that seven students are disengaged and
(11:48):
we just need to get them backto being engaged, and a lot of
techniques we use is to actually eithercall them out or kind of come up
with systems and structures to get themto be engaged instead of giving them the
time to re engage and then buildingthat skill so that students can self regulate
on their own, and that piece. I think that's probably the hardest for
veteran teachers because often veteran teachers createincredibly structured classrooms with super high levels of
(12:13):
students on task. But they're ontask and somewhat reliant on the teacher to
be on task, and suddenly whenthat teacher is no longer going to withhold
that much structure for them, theywill go off to task a little bit
and need to self correct. Andthat's a little freaky, that's true,
because I think there's also the fearof you know, if one student isn't
(12:35):
focused, then it's like a dominoeffect. So if you know, all
of these students are kind of doingtheir own thing and we can't control every
single step, then if one studentfalls out a line, then automatically everybody
else will. And I think that'sa fear, especially with the I don't
know if you've heard horror stories aboutlast year's student population where there was just
(12:58):
a lot of behavior your problems.I think it seems like it would be
easier to have everyone at the exactsame spot, because all you have to
do is just see someone who's notin that spot to catch the person who's
you know, not in line,as opposed to well, maybe they're not
(13:18):
in line because they didn't understand,and so now they're going to check out
for the rest of the lesson.But it sounds like with your model,
because they didn't understand, if weteach them how to self direct, now
they go back or we redirect them. Okay, you didn't understand this step,
watch this video, or we worktogether in this step so that every
(13:39):
and everyone else just keeps chugging alongand it's just that one or maybe five
students that they have to worry aboutrather than trying to range all the cats.
Yeah, I mean, I thinkthere's a couple really important points in
that. So the first is,I think the most high risk model of
teaching is one where one student candisrupt the entire learning. I found live
(14:00):
lectures to be so tense because ittook one student to get really frustrated and
then everything stops, and if otherstudents jump on board with them, then
you got a real problem on yourhands. And your only solution at that
point is to get more stern Andif the students aren't responding to that,
well you're in big trouble, right, And that's when like you start sweating
(14:22):
and your art starts racing, andyou're like, this is a disaster,
right, there's no out there.It really is disasters. In our model,
students have greater control over their learningand less control over their peers learning.
You could actually have a total crisishappened in your classroom and the rest
of the learning will not stop.That happened to me frequently. I mean
I taught an environment where certainly therewere a lot of challenging discipline circumstances,
(14:46):
and the year that we've built this, there was a lot of violence that
year in the community, And Imean you could have a situation where a
student is literally actively getting removed fromthe classroom for a reason that you know
is really tough to deal with,and the rest of the students you're just
working. Sure there maybe a littlebit more distracted because something's going on,
but it doesn't stop the learning experience, and it certainly doesn't mean that when
(15:09):
you have to go take care ofan issue, no one else can keep
move And I think that that's reallyreally hard. I think the second thing
to keep in mind is a lotof times when you're working on de escalating
a challenging behavior issue, you're alwaysreal solution if you want to achieve any
level of success is to kind ofshrink that problem to a one on one
interaction. The only way you cando that is if you're afford of the
(15:31):
time too. If you're busy deliveringsome sort of performative lecture, you don't
have that option. The moment yougo choose to make it a one on
one interaction, it's a one onone interaction that the whole group is watching.
Right. That's a terrible way tode escalate, right. So I
think it's really key as well forteachers to kind of internalize the fact that
(15:56):
de escalation is really hard and it'snearly impossible when you're doing it in a
whole group setting. So when wethink about a lot of those behavior at
shoots, they frequently stem from thestudent who needs to be de escalated,
and you don't actually have the timeor the capacity to do the steps necessary
to de escalate them, so youresort to what you would normally do in
(16:17):
an old group setting, and frequentlyit has the reverse effect and escalates the
situation and makes it much more challengingto deal with. That's a good point
because I'm you know, I hearabout teachers who have a lot of problems
with one student, especially who kindof sets everybody off. If the teacher
had the opportunity to have a lotof one on one time and have a
(16:38):
lot of relationship building, which youobviously it's difficult to do in a whole
class setting, they could probably knitthat in the bud early on, you
know, like if that student istesting them from the beginning of the year
and has been notoriously difficult, butthere are previous teachers I could see that
just having that relationship that student,having a relationship with that at least one
(17:00):
teacher in their day could that couldalso echo into their other classes as well
if they see that, like schoolisn't a threatening place anymore, and so
your model would actually afford them thattime. I mean, I had students
come to my classroom when they weren'tin my class period, just because it
was a less tense environment. Right, Like when you walk into a modern
(17:22):
classroom, if you're late to school, everyone isn't going to turn their head
and stare at you as you interruptthe lecture. Instead, you're walking in,
you're gonna be able to pick upwhere you left off if you want
to have a conversation with the teacherbecause something really hard happened and you just
need to let them know that,Like you're going to do your best that
day, but you're probably gonna putyour head down a few times. You
can just walk straight up to theteacher and do that and the whole class
(17:45):
isn't watching. So there's a lotof reasons why students are in going to
naturally feel much more safe and comfortablein a setting where it doesn't feel like
there's constantly a spotlight on them.And there were a number of class periods
that I had when I was implementingthis model. Implemented it for three straight
years before I left the classrooms aroundthe organization, and a lot of times
(18:06):
the students that struggled them most withbehavior would just sit next to me for
the entirety of the class period.I don't sit on my desk anymore.
The desk has no purpose. I'msitting in like a little table in the
middle of the in the middle ofthe classroom. And I might have a
student just sit with me for twostraight weeks, and you're gonna sit with
me until you can show me thatyou're using your time effectively. And you
(18:26):
create this fascinating dynamic where now astudent who was normally using their time ineffectively
was eager to use their time effectivelyto show me that they didn't need to
sit with me. There's a lotof kind of interesting techniques you can suddenly
introduce in the classroom when again,you're not your tool belt isn't like suddenly
restricted by this. I'm at thefront of the room, and this is
(18:47):
where I deliver all the kind ofdisciplinary tactics that I've been taught. And
I can see since you mentioned thatyou are circulating in the classroom more that
itself lends itself to fewer behaviors becausethey know that you're going to be over
there and then you're gonna be overthere, And we all know that presence
(19:07):
is like a big thing in termsof keeping the calm in the classroom.
So the fact that you're kind ofeverywhere means it's harder to get away with
things. I'm assuming totally, andI mean, in some ways, it's
harder. In some ways. It'seasier, right, in some ways when
the entire classrooms silent because you're atthe front of the room, then maybe
it's all easier to get away withstuff. But it's harder in that you
(19:30):
know that the educator is going toactually interact with you every single day,
yeah, and that they are payingvery close attention to your progress. Like
one of the things that you'll learnwhen you talk to a modern classroom educator
is they feel very comfortable articulating whata student does and does not know in
the scope over learning sequence. Likethey can almost tell you perfectly, like
(19:53):
that students on less than three theystruggled with this skill they're working on a
next class period. Because the wholeidea of data driven instruction that is a
buzzword that no one actually executes.Usually is or to what our educators do,
because it's the rationale behind why they'respending time with certain students during class.
So I, as a student mayhave greater freedom over my time than
(20:15):
a sixteen minute period, But whatI don't have is a feeling like I
can just slip through the cracks andthen bomb a test and then the teacher
only realizes at the end of thatunit the back student actually learned nothing,
right, you know, I hada bunch of times it's it's like gut
wrenching to teach and you're like,I thought that kid was paying attention and
then they take a test and theygot a forty percent. You're like,
you literally learned almost nothing, andI didn't really know that until the end
(20:41):
of this unit. That have wordhappens in a modern classroom. Um,
it's just literally impossible based on theway that the model runs. So if
a teacher wanted to just kind oflike test drive it, their toes in
it, what initial changes would youmake if they're if they're not ready to
go, like, you know,head first into this. Yeah, I
mean it's hard to people ask thisquestion all the time. I think it's
(21:03):
really interesting. Sorry. I thinkfirst of all, it's about doing it
for just one unit or one littlegroup of skills, right, So like,
do it for three straight lessons.Say, hey, students, like
these three lessons, we're gonna belearning self pace. I put a video
on your Google classroom or your schoolsor your canvas. I have your assignments,
you have this little exit ticket,and that's going to be your mastery
check. And you're supposed to completethese three lessons on Monday, Tuesday,
(21:26):
and Wednesday, and then we're gonnatake a mini quiz on Thursday. You
know, you don't really need thatlong as self pasting infect many of our
educators. All is self pace forone week at a time. If you're
really anxious about building instructional videos,you can obviously pull videos externally. You
will find that generally speaking, thatproduces it's a more challenging engagement technique.
(21:48):
Students are going to be less engagedwhen they hear a voice. Stay don't
know a teacher, they don't know. They're gonna feel like there's this kind
of gap between my educator and mylearning experience. But it's not. I
mean, it's certainly a way tostart testing it, but I encourage folks
to do that part right, tojust build three solid lessons. It's not
that hard to create instructional video,you know, educators. We're doing it
(22:11):
all through COVID. You just hitrecord on any screencasting software and you're done
and just kind of run it andsee what happens. And I think the
most shocking thing that educators frequently experiencesthey realize just how much less stressful the
class period is and how much moretime they have to connect with students.
And if you've never done it,go ahead. It seems like then for
(22:33):
new teachers, like because they don'thave anything to fall back on because this
is their first time, it wouldactually be an ideal time for them to
jump into this and test this out. Especially what I trick. I tell
a lot of new teachers, youshould practice things like practice routines, you
know, as if it's actually happening, because that way you're not winging it.
(22:55):
But here I can deliver a lessonand if I mess up, I
get a do over because I'm recordingit. And I really like that the
idea that you can record it aheadof time, and then if I don't
like it, or if I findthat video isn't working, then I can
just fix it. But I don'thave to keep reteaching that same thing over
and over again. I mean,I totally agree with you. We have
(23:18):
had a debate internally of modern classmotions some time now around this idea of
new teachers and implementation, because onone hand, it's perfect. You don't
know the alternative of me, andaside from that's what you probably learned in
so you're not on learning new methodology. You're not on learning a traditional methodology
of teaching and then relearning a newone. You can start out of the
(23:41):
gates. Alternatively, they don't knowthe limitations of traditional instruction. New educators
have not seen how hard it isto differentiate to an extraordinary diversity of learning
levels and social emotional needs by standingat the front of the room. So
in some ways it might feel likewhy am I doing this? Like I
think we as educators who've been inthe classroom for years, understand very very
(24:06):
clearly how limited we are and meetingevery student's needs. You are teachers may
not truly understand that. So thedriving force behind the why is a little
bit less sticky, So there's somecosts and benefits. One why that I
can think of because I pay attentiona lot to how new teachers are feeling.
(24:26):
I used to be a new teachermentor, but a lot of times
there's a fear of having their contractnot be renewed because they're not meeting the
needs or they're not hitting those standardsand test scores. And this directly addresses
that because if you know you're notfulfilling someone's IEP, or you're not catching
(24:47):
up these students that are behind,what better way than to have this set
up. Because it's actual built indifferentiation. You can prove to your administrator,
yes, you should renew my contractbecause I'm one of the only teachers
actually truly differentiating. There's no doubtabout that. I also think when you
think about the kind of broader supportsthat a school may have to offer MTS
at, special education supports, languagesupports, our educators just tend to be
(25:12):
much more coherent about making those requestsbecause they have really clear understanding of the
data. This student has only matteredfor the last ten skills, they need
more support, they need after schoolsupport. All those things. So I
certainly think when it's implemented correctly,any administrator understands that this is a way
to achieve some of those big buzzwordsthat we know are necessary and don't actually
(25:33):
get them right. So I hopethat you guys can see how this could
really revolutionize your teaching. I amreally excited to test this out. It's
been something I've been wanting to do, and now I have a clear framework
and a really good reason in termsof why I should do this. I
am really excited to give this atry, and I hope that you'll join
me on this journey. Now,if you want to know how to implement
(25:56):
this, and maybe you still havesome reservations in terms of things like assessment
and collaboration and things like that,then be sure to subscribe to this podcast
so that you can get notified forthe next episode, where Kareem and I
dig even deeper into the Modern Classroomsproject. Thanks for hanging out with me
today, you guys, and havea great week.
Welcome to the Teachers Need Teachers Podcasts, the podcast for teachers who don't want
to just survive teaching but actually thrive. One aspect of teaching that pretty much
every teacher struggles with is being ableto reach all learners, especially when you
have learners that are on grade level, learners that are ahead, and definitely
learners that are behind or frequently absent. Parents and administrators and districts and the
(00:23):
states. They all want us tosomehow create individualized learning plans for all of
our students and differentiate for all ofthe multiple levels that sit in front of
us every single day. But howare we supposed to do that? Which
is part one of a two partseries about differentiation and the Modern Classroom Project.
I'm interviewing Kareem Farah about how toset up a modern classroom where all
(00:46):
students needs are met. Yes,all students needs are met. Not only
has his method with the Modern ClassroomsProject been tested by tens of thousands of
teachers across the country and the world, it also has been studied to have
actual improvements in student learning and outcomes. It helps to build student teacher relationships
(01:07):
and definitely closes learning gaps. Ifyou've just been struggling with trying to reach
all of your learners and feel likea failure, then this episode is definitely
for you. The Modern Classrooms Projectis a model where teachers are no longer
standing in front of their students andjust being the gatekeepers and information. It's
not just us that delivers the informationin front of students in real time.
(01:30):
Rather, it's sort of a flippedmodel, where can we deliver the lessons
via video lessons. Sometimes we recordit, sometimes we use other people's recordings,
like on YouTube or something like that, and then students are going to
watch that video either in class oron their own time, and the great
part is that they can rewatch itif they didn't understand it. The model
also allows you to create supplemental videosfor students that are behind and also extension
(01:56):
videos for students that move pretty fastor already ahead of level and need to
be stretched and challenged. The mainpart of the Modern Classrooms Project is the
fact that this is a student centeredmodel meeting that is not based on teachers
and on what we need to teachand in terms of what we need as
teachers, but rather it's going tomeet the needs of every single student,
(02:17):
no matter where they're at, andI think that this is something that pretty
much every teacher hopes that they cando. Kareem Vera, who is a
former math teacher, co founded theModern Classrooms Project as a way of sharing
his model with teachers because he knewthat this was the future of education.
So, if you want to knowmore about how the Modern Classrooms Project actually
works, and I encourage you tocheck out our website, modern classrooms dot
(02:39):
org, which I'll link below sothat you can learn about the actual model.
But today Kareim and I are goingto be talking about how to reframe
our mindset as teachers, especially whenwe've been teaching in a traditional lecture based
classroom, so that we can embracethis model that really benefits our students.
Here we go, Well, thanksfor being on the show, Cream,
(03:00):
I really appreciate you taking the timeto do this or turn your busy schedule.
Happy to be here, excited.So, as I mentioned in the
introduction, you were a math teacherand you started the Modern Classroom Project,
which I'm really really excited to talkto my audience about. Can you briefly
(03:21):
explain the concept and principles behind it? And how it's different than just like
traditional lecture style teaching. Yeah,I mean you started the explanation for me
by saying that this is an alternativeto sort of a traditional lectured approach based
to instruction. I actually think whereit's most different, it's that it's a
way to transform from a fixed basedlearning environment to a self based learning environment
(03:44):
that's competency or mastery based. Sothe way that it essentially works is that
instead of educators standing at the frontof the room and delivering live lectures in
many ways the way that we allprobably learn when we were students, but
also the way that you're often taughtto teach, educators replace those live lectures
with bite sized instructional videos that theyactually create and or leverage other digital resources
(04:09):
when appropriate. Right, not everysingle lesson needs to start with a kind
of instruction done through a videos.So once you've gotten into those live lectures,
that is the bottleneck that forces fixedbased learning. So then you can
actually let students work at their ownpace, but in bursts one or two
weeks at a time, be usuallygiven a game board or pacing structure allows
them to know what they need toaccomplish over a set of days or weeks,
(04:31):
and then it's mastery based grading.So you got that kind of blended
component, which is the getting ridof live lectures. You got the self
pacing component allowing students grow based inChunson. Then finally that mastery based grading
component, which is really determining thata student should move on from one skill
to the next, not based onthe day of the week, but based
on their understanding of the skill.So this what I like is that there
(04:55):
are two deems that I struggle withevery year. One of them is that
as a secondary t I'm tired ofteaching the same lesson five times a day.
So the idea of just like prerecordingit and having the students watch it
it means that I don't have todo that. And then, of course,
you know what your model leaned itselfto is that I feel like I'm
(05:16):
leaving kids behind. But at thesame time, I also feel that kids
are bored, you know. Butthe thing that I'm struggling with wrapping my
brain around is the fact that Ipart of what I do when I'm lecturing
is I have a lot of interactionwith the kids. It's how they get
to know me, and I reallylike that aspect of it. So,
(05:36):
you know, one thing that I'msure a lot of people who want to
do something like this in terms ofespecially with differentiation, is they're used to
lecturing. What are some challenges thatthey might face and trying to transition and
how can they overcome those? Well, I mean, I think you talked
about one in your question. Imean the first thing to keep in mind
(05:59):
is just because you're not lecturing doesn'tmean you're not doing whole group activities and
discussions. It's a frequent kind ofmisconception about the model. Just because I
don't talk at students and they takenotes does not mean that I don't open
class with an activity, that wedon't have a discussion about how you maximize
your time and built twenty first centuryskills, or that I don't stop the
class at any point in time andsay let's talk about this. I've seen
(06:19):
six kids already struggle with this,let's do a quick discussion about that.
So there's a lot of opportunities tohave that kind of whole group experience.
But the key is using whole groupexperience for connection and conversation and not just
I talk at EU take notes,right. So I think that's the first
thing to keep in mind. Thesecond thing is, you know, our
(06:41):
whole idea and the data shows,is that when you run a modern classroom,
you have increased interaction with students.Those interactions are now going to be
in one on one in small groupsettings as opposed to whole group settings.
The idea is it's in those smallgroup settings and in the one on one
settings when you're engaging in data driveninstruction, which are also just getting no
students, that that's actually where you'rebuilding the strongest relationships. That's where you're
(07:02):
moving students across the continuent mastery.So I think that addresses one just kind
of related question, which is whenyou kind of think about, oh,
no, am I gonna lose thiskind of community based feeling when I'm at
the front of the room, AmI gonna lose some of that kind of
fun performing developments, It's like,no, it just looks a little different,
and you're going to use that timedifferently. I think the other things
(07:23):
that folks struggle with is first,releasing control. I think it's you know,
being at the front of the roomis both convenient and it's an easy
way to create a very rigid learningenvironment where you are in control of every
minute, and it's very difficult,and I was I can be the first
to say this, to release thatcontrol, to wake up and suddenly go
(07:45):
wait a minute. Students are haveenough agency to be the driver's cy of
the learning experience. They are goingto be the folks that decide, you
know, how much kind of urgencythey put into the next steps. And
my job is to help facilitate andsupport them to that journey. And that
really freaks educators out in there,actually, and I get it. But
it's also such an important skill forstudents to build, so it's critical.
(08:05):
The other piece is just the leeorientation of time. I mean, one
of the things we've seen now thatwe've trained thousands of teachers is some edvocators
totally knows to do when you unlashedin the classroom. They totally think,
immediately, I'm going to go intothis kind of teacher station. I'm gonna
be pulling students in small groups andindividually, we're gonna be talking about their
mastery checks, figure out where they'veunderstood the skill. We're gonna be building
(08:26):
relationships. Other teachers are like,what do I do with all this time?
Because you teach your prep programs,they don actually teach you how to
run a classroom that's students entered,a classroom that's kind of designed through the
leves of differentiation. They teach youhow to run a classroom from the front
of the room usually, and soyou know, figuring out how to use
that time effectively conceal uncomfortable And thenthere's obviously a plain in component. I
(08:48):
mean, you're planning differently and insome ways you have to add a little
bit more on the front end forthe gains in varying the classroom from a
much less stressful, enjoyable and datadriven classroom experience, and always poses a
challenge because it's a new skill toplan this way, and there's also a
little bit more upfront work well.And I think that for teachers that are
(09:09):
already seeking out your model, it'ssort of self selective. These are teachers
that are open minded about it,and you know they already see that there's
something that they need to change inthe way that they teach. But I
can also see that it can bedifficult for a lot of teachers, especially
veteran teachers I mean I've been teaching. This will be my twenty second year
to shift from a I am.I mean, no one wants to admit
(09:31):
that they are the center of theirclassroom. But a lot of time teachers
see themselves as like, you know, the center of the classroom around which
everything revolves. But now it's studentfocused. So have you had a lot
of teachers that had to grapple withthat and how did they get past?
I mean it's almost eco eccentric.I hate to say that, but you
(09:52):
know, we're just so used tobeing about us, like being the gatekeepers.
How do we release that need tobe the gatekeeper? Yeah? Well,
I mean the interesting fat So youknow, we put fifty three thousand
teachers to our free course and tenthousand through Verture Mendership program. The average
educator who opts into a virtual mendershipprogram, and it is an opt and
(10:13):
only program, meaning no one's beingforced to do our model. Everyone's choosing
too. The average educator who joinsour virtual Menadership program is fourteen years of
classroom experience. So this is actuallya model that generally is first most attractive
to veteran teachers, and the reasonwhy it's often first attractive to veteran teachers
is I think veteran teachers over timereally do want to shift the learning experience
(10:35):
to the students. Right. It'sboth exhausting to be in the driver's seat
as the teacher, but it's alsosomething you learn over time that that's not
what's best for students. That they'regoing to leave you the classroom and leave
the school building and suddenly like theyhave to engage in a lot of self
directed behaviors to navigate the real world. And if we don't create those conditions
early on, then they get blindsidedby those realities. So I think one
(11:00):
thing that is critical going into amodern classrooms experience is to have that first
to shift a large percentage of responsibilityfrom educator to student. If you aren't
built, if you haven't bought iton that vision, you shouldn't do our
model right, because it's core towhat we do. The second piece is
to really understand and internalize that whena student isn't using their time effectively,
(11:24):
the solution isn't then to take freedomaway from them, it's to teach them
how to use that freedom effectively.And that is really hard for folks.
I often say a phrase to thead and we support where we need to
spend less time focusing on disengagement andmore time focusing on re engagement. A
lot of educators will become obsessed withthis idea that seven students are disengaged and
(11:48):
we just need to get them backto being engaged, and a lot of
techniques we use is to actually eithercall them out or kind of come up
with systems and structures to get themto be engaged instead of giving them the
time to re engage and then buildingthat skill so that students can self regulate
on their own, and that piece. I think that's probably the hardest for
veteran teachers because often veteran teachers createincredibly structured classrooms with super high levels of
(12:13):
students on task. But they're ontask and somewhat reliant on the teacher to
be on task, and suddenly whenthat teacher is no longer going to withhold
that much structure for them, theywill go off to task a little bit
and need to self correct. Andthat's a little freaky, that's true,
because I think there's also the fearof you know, if one student isn't
(12:35):
focused, then it's like a dominoeffect. So if you know, all
of these students are kind of doingtheir own thing and we can't control every
single step, then if one studentfalls out a line, then automatically everybody
else will. And I think that'sa fear, especially with the I don't
know if you've heard horror stories aboutlast year's student population where there was just
(12:58):
a lot of behavior your problems.I think it seems like it would be
easier to have everyone at the exactsame spot, because all you have to
do is just see someone who's notin that spot to catch the person who's
you know, not in line,as opposed to well, maybe they're not
(13:18):
in line because they didn't understand,and so now they're going to check out
for the rest of the lesson.But it sounds like with your model,
because they didn't understand, if weteach them how to self direct, now
they go back or we redirect them. Okay, you didn't understand this step,
watch this video, or we worktogether in this step so that every
(13:39):
and everyone else just keeps chugging alongand it's just that one or maybe five
students that they have to worry aboutrather than trying to range all the cats.
Yeah, I mean, I thinkthere's a couple really important points in
that. So the first is,I think the most high risk model of
teaching is one where one student candisrupt the entire learning. I found live
(14:00):
lectures to be so tense because ittook one student to get really frustrated and
then everything stops, and if otherstudents jump on board with them, then
you got a real problem on yourhands. And your only solution at that
point is to get more stern Andif the students aren't responding to that,
well you're in big trouble, right, And that's when like you start sweating
(14:22):
and your art starts racing, andyou're like, this is a disaster,
right, there's no out there.It really is disasters. In our model,
students have greater control over their learningand less control over their peers learning.
You could actually have a total crisishappened in your classroom and the rest
of the learning will not stop.That happened to me frequently. I mean
I taught an environment where certainly therewere a lot of challenging discipline circumstances,
(14:46):
and the year that we've built this, there was a lot of violence that
year in the community, And Imean you could have a situation where a
student is literally actively getting removed fromthe classroom for a reason that you know
is really tough to deal with,and the rest of the students you're just
working. Sure there maybe a littlebit more distracted because something's going on,
but it doesn't stop the learning experience, and it certainly doesn't mean that when
(15:09):
you have to go take care ofan issue, no one else can keep
move And I think that that's reallyreally hard. I think the second thing
to keep in mind is a lotof times when you're working on de escalating
a challenging behavior issue, you're alwaysreal solution if you want to achieve any
level of success is to kind ofshrink that problem to a one on one
interaction. The only way you cando that is if you're afford of the
(15:31):
time too. If you're busy deliveringsome sort of performative lecture, you don't
have that option. The moment yougo choose to make it a one on
one interaction, it's a one onone interaction that the whole group is watching.
Right. That's a terrible way tode escalate, right. So I
think it's really key as well forteachers to kind of internalize the fact that
(15:56):
de escalation is really hard and it'snearly impossible when you're doing it in a
whole group setting. So when wethink about a lot of those behavior at
shoots, they frequently stem from thestudent who needs to be de escalated,
and you don't actually have the timeor the capacity to do the steps necessary
to de escalate them, so youresort to what you would normally do in
(16:17):
an old group setting, and frequentlyit has the reverse effect and escalates the
situation and makes it much more challengingto deal with. That's a good point
because I'm you know, I hearabout teachers who have a lot of problems
with one student, especially who kindof sets everybody off. If the teacher
had the opportunity to have a lotof one on one time and have a
(16:38):
lot of relationship building, which youobviously it's difficult to do in a whole
class setting, they could probably knitthat in the bud early on, you
know, like if that student istesting them from the beginning of the year
and has been notoriously difficult, butthere are previous teachers I could see that
just having that relationship that student,having a relationship with that at least one
(17:00):
teacher in their day could that couldalso echo into their other classes as well
if they see that, like schoolisn't a threatening place anymore, and so
your model would actually afford them thattime. I mean, I had students
come to my classroom when they weren'tin my class period, just because it
was a less tense environment. Right, Like when you walk into a modern
(17:22):
classroom, if you're late to school, everyone isn't going to turn their head
and stare at you as you interruptthe lecture. Instead, you're walking in,
you're gonna be able to pick upwhere you left off if you want
to have a conversation with the teacherbecause something really hard happened and you just
need to let them know that,Like you're going to do your best that
day, but you're probably gonna putyour head down a few times. You
can just walk straight up to theteacher and do that and the whole class
(17:45):
isn't watching. So there's a lotof reasons why students are in going to
naturally feel much more safe and comfortablein a setting where it doesn't feel like
there's constantly a spotlight on them.And there were a number of class periods
that I had when I was implementingthis model. Implemented it for three straight
years before I left the classrooms aroundthe organization, and a lot of times
(18:06):
the students that struggled them most withbehavior would just sit next to me for
the entirety of the class period.I don't sit on my desk anymore.
The desk has no purpose. I'msitting in like a little table in the
middle of the in the middle ofthe classroom. And I might have a
student just sit with me for twostraight weeks, and you're gonna sit with
me until you can show me thatyou're using your time effectively. And you
(18:26):
create this fascinating dynamic where now astudent who was normally using their time ineffectively
was eager to use their time effectivelyto show me that they didn't need to
sit with me. There's a lotof kind of interesting techniques you can suddenly
introduce in the classroom when again,you're not your tool belt isn't like suddenly
restricted by this. I'm at thefront of the room, and this is
(18:47):
where I deliver all the kind ofdisciplinary tactics that I've been taught. And
I can see since you mentioned thatyou are circulating in the classroom more that
itself lends itself to fewer behaviors becausethey know that you're going to be over
there and then you're gonna be overthere, And we all know that presence
(19:07):
is like a big thing in termsof keeping the calm in the classroom.
So the fact that you're kind ofeverywhere means it's harder to get away with
things. I'm assuming totally, andI mean, in some ways, it's
harder. In some ways. It'seasier, right, in some ways when
the entire classrooms silent because you're atthe front of the room, then maybe
it's all easier to get away withstuff. But it's harder in that you
(19:30):
know that the educator is going toactually interact with you every single day,
yeah, and that they are payingvery close attention to your progress. Like
one of the things that you'll learnwhen you talk to a modern classroom educator
is they feel very comfortable articulating whata student does and does not know in
the scope over learning sequence. Likethey can almost tell you perfectly, like
(19:53):
that students on less than three theystruggled with this skill they're working on a
next class period. Because the wholeidea of data driven instruction that is a
buzzword that no one actually executes.Usually is or to what our educators do,
because it's the rationale behind why they'respending time with certain students during class.
So I, as a student mayhave greater freedom over my time than
(20:15):
a sixteen minute period, But whatI don't have is a feeling like I
can just slip through the cracks andthen bomb a test and then the teacher
only realizes at the end of thatunit the back student actually learned nothing,
right, you know, I hada bunch of times it's it's like gut
wrenching to teach and you're like,I thought that kid was paying attention and
then they take a test and theygot a forty percent. You're like,
you literally learned almost nothing, andI didn't really know that until the end
(20:41):
of this unit. That have wordhappens in a modern classroom. Um,
it's just literally impossible based on theway that the model runs. So if
a teacher wanted to just kind oflike test drive it, their toes in
it, what initial changes would youmake if they're if they're not ready to
go, like, you know,head first into this. Yeah, I
mean it's hard to people ask thisquestion all the time. I think it's
(21:03):
really interesting. Sorry. I thinkfirst of all, it's about doing it
for just one unit or one littlegroup of skills, right, So like,
do it for three straight lessons.Say, hey, students, like
these three lessons, we're gonna belearning self pace. I put a video
on your Google classroom or your schoolsor your canvas. I have your assignments,
you have this little exit ticket,and that's going to be your mastery
check. And you're supposed to completethese three lessons on Monday, Tuesday,
(21:26):
and Wednesday, and then we're gonnatake a mini quiz on Thursday. You
know, you don't really need thatlong as self pasting infect many of our
educators. All is self pace forone week at a time. If you're
really anxious about building instructional videos,you can obviously pull videos externally. You
will find that generally speaking, thatproduces it's a more challenging engagement technique.
(21:48):
Students are going to be less engagedwhen they hear a voice. Stay don't
know a teacher, they don't know. They're gonna feel like there's this kind
of gap between my educator and mylearning experience. But it's not. I
mean, it's certainly a way tostart testing it, but I encourage folks
to do that part right, tojust build three solid lessons. It's not
that hard to create instructional video,you know, educators. We're doing it
(22:11):
all through COVID. You just hitrecord on any screencasting software and you're done
and just kind of run it andsee what happens. And I think the
most shocking thing that educators frequently experiencesthey realize just how much less stressful the
class period is and how much moretime they have to connect with students.
And if you've never done it,go ahead. It seems like then for
(22:33):
new teachers, like because they don'thave anything to fall back on because this
is their first time, it wouldactually be an ideal time for them to
jump into this and test this out. Especially what I trick. I tell
a lot of new teachers, youshould practice things like practice routines, you
know, as if it's actually happening, because that way you're not winging it.
(22:55):
But here I can deliver a lessonand if I mess up, I
get a do over because I'm recordingit. And I really like that the
idea that you can record it aheadof time, and then if I don't
like it, or if I findthat video isn't working, then I can
just fix it. But I don'thave to keep reteaching that same thing over
and over again. I mean,I totally agree with you. We have
(23:18):
had a debate internally of modern classmotions some time now around this idea of
new teachers and implementation, because onone hand, it's perfect. You don't
know the alternative of me, andaside from that's what you probably learned in
so you're not on learning new methodology. You're not on learning a traditional methodology
of teaching and then relearning a newone. You can start out of the
(23:41):
gates. Alternatively, they don't knowthe limitations of traditional instruction. New educators
have not seen how hard it isto differentiate to an extraordinary diversity of learning
levels and social emotional needs by standingat the front of the room. So
in some ways it might feel likewhy am I doing this? Like I
think we as educators who've been inthe classroom for years, understand very very
(24:06):
clearly how limited we are and meetingevery student's needs. You are teachers may
not truly understand that. So thedriving force behind the why is a little
bit less sticky, So there's somecosts and benefits. One why that I
can think of because I pay attentiona lot to how new teachers are feeling.
(24:26):
I used to be a new teachermentor, but a lot of times
there's a fear of having their contractnot be renewed because they're not meeting the
needs or they're not hitting those standardsand test scores. And this directly addresses
that because if you know you're notfulfilling someone's IEP, or you're not catching
(24:47):
up these students that are behind,what better way than to have this set
up. Because it's actual built indifferentiation. You can prove to your administrator,
yes, you should renew my contractbecause I'm one of the only teachers
actually truly differentiating. There's no doubtabout that. I also think when you
think about the kind of broader supportsthat a school may have to offer MTS
at, special education supports, languagesupports, our educators just tend to be
(25:12):
much more coherent about making those requestsbecause they have really clear understanding of the
data. This student has only matteredfor the last ten skills, they need
more support, they need after schoolsupport. All those things. So I
certainly think when it's implemented correctly,any administrator understands that this is a way
to achieve some of those big buzzwordsthat we know are necessary and don't actually
(25:33):
get them right. So I hopethat you guys can see how this could
really revolutionize your teaching. I amreally excited to test this out. It's
been something I've been wanting to do, and now I have a clear framework
and a really good reason in termsof why I should do this. I
am really excited to give this atry, and I hope that you'll join
me on this journey. Now,if you want to know how to implement
(25:56):
this, and maybe you still havesome reservations in terms of things like assessment
and collaboration and things like that,then be sure to subscribe to this podcast
so that you can get notified forthe next episode, where Kareem and I
dig even deeper into the Modern Classroomsproject. Thanks for hanging out with me
today, you guys, and havea great week.
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